Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

[clears throat]

Okay. At 700 p.m., I'd like to call the planning commission for the city of Martinsville, Tuesday, November the 25th, 2025 to order. First up is roll call. Richard Basson here. Steve Bod. Jim Burkhart here. Joe Disney present. Richard Dural present. Caleb Forester, Rick Peacock,

Ann Miller, Jason Scott here, Troy Swan, myself, Marilyn Cider.

Okay, we have a quorum. First up is presentation of minutes dated October the 28th, 2025. Has everybody had a chance to look at the minutes? [clears throat] I did. Um, on page three under docket number PC25026, it looks like we passed two motions that are opposite of one another. I think that first motion should say that it failed by a vote of two to six.

Okay. Seconded by Steve Bod and should say failed instead of pass. Oh, okay. Thank you.

Is there anything else that has noticed?

I will make a motion that we accept the minutes with the noted changes. Okay. Rick Dernol has made a motion. Do I have a second? Second. Jim Burkart. Need a second. All those in favor?

Okay. Next under new business, we have docket number PC25029, sign approval in historic downtown district. Address is 10 North Main Street. Owner is 10 North Main Street, Martinsville. We have a representative here. Do we have all the everything in place? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Sher, can you come up to the microphone? Need to state your name and sign in. It's Jasmine Gala. I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. Jasmine Gala.

Jasmine Oh, it's on here. Yeah. On the name of that one. Yes. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. Go ahead and tell us what you want to do. Uh, we just wanted to get permission to put our sign up. It's the new business, so we wanted to replace what the sign currently is for the Mexican restaurant and put our sign up. Okay. So, this is a rendering of what the sign's going to look like. Yep. And the size is 16 ft long and 4t tall.

Yes. So, actually, I have new measurements that were just given to me like not too long ago. So, would I be able to update those now or is that microphone working? I can't hear what you said. Yes, the microphone is working. So the new measurements are

um here the circle is 40 in and the letters of molito are 30 in high. So the circle and the letters make a total of the 65 in high and 130 in long. Does anybody have the measurements of the front of the building?

Chairman, if I may share with you, uh the beginning of this process was that they were going to replace the existing sign that is there. That sign is 23 in in height. The lettering of the of the name. Now, I was under the impression that the sign below it says Mexican restaurant was staying. Is that correct? Yes.

So, they're they're going above that with a new sign that is much greater in height. Um, so the height off of the walk, the face of the building is tremendous. uh you know this the signage is uh it's uh more than 9 and 1/2 ft. I was over measured it a couple of occasions ago three different times. So but again the sign that is there the impression I got in the beginning was they were replacing with a new sign the same as what's there. So, you're going to put you're planning on putting this stuff here above what? Above the Mexican restaurant?

Yes. And that is 65 in by 130 in 130 in. Yep.

And you said the loss rays is 23 in. 23. That's a big difference. Ma'am, do you know what an elevation is by chance? [clears throat] A rendering of the front of the building with this sign in it? No. Okay. That's what we would really like to see because from this we can't tell how it's going to go on the building. Um, I have a picture. We have other restaurants with the same sign. I have a picture of what it looks like on the front of those. You guys want to see those?

I think that what Mr. Burkart was asking was if you've got a rendering of this on the front of that building. On front of that building. So that's what we need to see. So we can tell. Exactly. I mean in proportion what it's going to look like. Yeah. Are your are your other restaurants in a historic district because that's what you're dealing with here. Um not here. We have one in Franklin that's also in the downtown area. Okay. Chairman. Yes sir.

Uh share with you this this height dimension that you're discussing here tonight would be well above uh the height. It would actually be much up on the the face of the building blocking the windows at 65 in. You have nothing around the downtown historic district of that size. I would point out that the um Chapter 15, the Downtown Historic District under the sign section um subsection I specifically states, "Signs shall not be placed on a building so as to obscure any window or door opening." So that's That's going to be my issue with this as it's at this size. It fits the size requirement. It's under the the size, but it's going to obscure the windows. Is there any way you can get it [clears throat] to be exactly like the other one? I guess our size.

We can do that. Yeah. Okay. I think that's and like Jim said, a rendering of it of that building with with the sign on it. Yeah. Um I was just saying because the measurements they send me send me was because of the other restaurants we've done it, but we can do it exactly to the to the size requirement that is already there. The sign whoever you're dealing with sign countywide should be able to put the elevation there for you and show us what it's going to look like. Okay. The other thing is I would suggest you you work closely with this gentleman right here because he knows he knows the codes. Okay.

Okay. And and I think if you get everything worked out, then it's a lot smoother coming back. And and with that being said, I'd like to make a motion we table this till till we can get something that we can understand a little bit better and and and get our hands on. So, okay. So, we got a motion on the floor to table. This for Mr. Farart. I'll second that. Mr. Dol made a second. We did. Mr. Dol. Okay. All those in favor say I. I.

Opposed. Okay. So, what we're asking is we're tableabling this for you to come back. Our next meeting will be in December. and show us like Jim said, the sign company should be able to take a picture of the front of that building and put this on that picture so that way we can see size. You can't cover the windows or doorways and like I think Mr. or Jim said, work with Mr. Strader, okay? Because he he knows what works. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the presentation.

Okay, up next, docket number PC2503, exterior maintenance and historic downtown. Um, 109 East Washington Street, owners Kent Richardson. I see his son here. If you'll state your name and sign in, please. Nathan Richardson. Did you get that, Nathan? I did. Could you tell us what you're wanting to do, Nathan?

Just wanted to do general maintenance to the building. The older windows need paint and some rotten wood replace. Not making any modifications to the building. The colors are staying the same. He was trying to keep it the way it is and keeping the historic windows from deteriorating further maintenance.

Yes. There was also some tuck pointing as there are some uh limestone pieces that are for decoration but the freezing and thawing is move them out as you can see in the picture. They just need to be placed back. about using the same limestone pieces, just replacing them back where they originally go. Does anybody have any other questions for Nathan? No. Okay. With that said, uh do we have a motion?

I make a motion that we pass docket 2530. Rich Baston made a motion that we pass this. Uh, do I have a second? I'll second. Jason Scott seconds. All those in favor say I. I. Opposed. Thank you for coming in. Motion carries. Thank you. Thank you for a uh thorough application.

Yes, sir. Next up, docket number PC25031, sign approval in the historic downtown district. Uh, address is 72 East Morgan Street. Uh, owner is Artisian Group LLC. We have a representative here for that. Okay. So, there's nobody here to make that presentation. We'll table that. Do we have a motion for that so they can come back next meeting? Chairman.

Yes.

Before you move forward with that, I'd like to share a little bit. Uh the business uh is open. the uh uh a while back uh this topic was brought to me that uh they kind of got ahead of the game and placed the sign. The sign is hanging on a bracket or was hanging on a bracket that when the modifications took place in the downtown uh they put up a lot of uh brackets, black brackets to hang signage off of this sign that uh that the restaurant has. U I asked him to take it down until this evening. I had not a chance to speak with the owner. Uh the sign meets it's uh didn't mention I know there's nothing in front of you here. Uh but I can give you my word that it's exactly what you're expecting. He did get ahead of the game. He was kind enough to immediately take it down. It was either the day of or the following day it was it was back down. He had no issues with that. So just sharing that information with you.

Well, and there is a picture here in our packet of the latitude 39 sign. I did see it placed and then seen that it would have been removed. I think mostly did um they have provided the dimensions is 35 in by 35 in. So yeah, it's a little under 18 square foot combining each side which is under their And the lighting on that was that what was there from the previous the the lights? I know the sign before was lighted.

They they have a a different light there because the light the sign that was there before illuminated from the the sign itself. Okay. This is a couple of small uh floods that are direct directional right on the sign. is what he asked. And you don't have any problem with that? No, sir. [clears throat] Well, members, what would you like to do? I'll make motion. Okay. Mr. Berkart made a motion that we accept. I'll second that motion. Rick Bernol made a second. All those in favor?

I I opposed. Motion carries. Bob, will you let them know that? I will take care of Thank you. Thank you for your input, Bob. Okay. Next up, docket number PC25039, Mitten Exterior Maintenance, uh, Red Brick Trading Company. I see Mr. Stanhouse in the house. Could you state your name and sign in, please? Hi, my name

I didn't get the same number

253.

Okay. I can see over the mayor's mayor's shoulder that your packet included renderings of the revised facade. So, um, what that entails is some brick facing, which you all might recall preferred the last time I came had originally was presented with siding. So, um, as we've kind of gotten into the, um, structure and Kevin Potter has given us quite a bit of advice on this, but um, we thought that maybe the brick might be more appropriate um, just for structure and added strength. So, um, so we thought we'd better get back here and get approval for the brick. So, um, what else? The other things we talked at length it seemed like there at our last approval, but um there was there was more glass on that facade that's been reduced a little bit. Um and we're presenting it uh now with as like two units potential for two units. I'm currently speaking with a prospective tenant that would like to rent the whole building, but you know, tenants come and go sometimes and uh we want to give ourselves the opportunity to to divide it and have potentially two tenants. So, so that's there's a couple little changes going on there, but generally it looks the same with brick instead of siding.

Bob, you've been over all this? is that and I've been on site of the project. I think everybody that drives up and down Morgan Street can see that at that stop sign that there's a big hole in the side of that building. That's I doubt. So the full the facade's going to be full brick all the way. Yes. Yes. Yeah. The street facing. Yes. And so, and you're going to have two double doors with windows very similar to what's there in the little Yes. Yes. And is the color of the br What's What's the color of the brick?

Well, I actually picked it out today. Um, but it's red. I I had originally told the contractor I'd look for something similar to the courthouse. The courthouse is a little more brown and a little less red than I'd like. So, um it it looks like it's um well wellaged red brick. So, there's some white there's it's kind of got a a variegated color presentation. So, that will make that look like it's a distinct different building. Absolutely. With the the color that's on the front.

Yes. But it will present as if it's got some age to it. that that brick looks like it's oiled even though it's a new brick.

Do we have any other questions for Mr. Stan?

I'd entertain a motion on this. I'll make a motion that we approve docket number PC25032. Rick Dernol made a motion to accept. I hear a second. I'll second it. And that was Rich. Yeah. Rich Baston seconded. All those in favor say I. Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you, Ron.

Thank you. Okay, we're done with new business. Um, I would like to if Mr. Kernall would pass some stuff out. Um, we're going to have a discussion here um over a couple things. Rick's got one and I've got another one. So after the last meeting, probably two weeks after the last meeting, I got a call from Mr. for coffee that he had made an error. So what you have in front of you and uh in that conversation he said he might try to call in because he really wanted to be able to explain this himself to the planning commission. Uh he is gone right now on vacation. Um but he was going to try and make every effort to uh work this in. So, as it says, and I'm just going to read it out loud so it's a matter of record. Dear plan commission members, as this is Dale Coffee speaking, I apologize for not being able to attend tonight's meeting. I am out of state visiting my daughter for Thanksgiving holiday. I do need to inform the plan commission, however, that at the October plan commission meeting, I erred in my advice that I gave to the commission concerning the four to four tie vote on

the request for final plan approval concerning the Artisian Boulevard project. At the time I gave advice, I was looking at the 2017 plane commission rules and I failed to note that it was the 2017 version. I should have been referring to the 2020 revised plan commission rules. In the 2017 plan commission rules, there was a provision that action on a matter had to occur within 90 days of the date that the matter first came before the plan commission. If action had not been taken by the plan commission with that 90 days, the matter was considered rejected. In the 2020 plan commission rules, that particular provision was removed and that was during co that they were virtual meetings. Therefore, under the 2020 plan commission rules and the rules in effect at the October meeting in a tie vote, the matter is to be placed upon the plan commission agenda for the next meeting, which would have been tonight. Since I had publicly informed the plan commission that this matter was rejected, I did not feel that it was appropriate to place the matter on the November meeting agenda. I wanted to explain to the plan commission what had happened and give everybody the opportunity to plan for the matter to come back before the plan commission. Therefore, the request will be placed upon the agenda for the December 23rd, 2025 plan commission meeting. I have been in contact with the attorney for TNH Development Company and I have informed him of this matter and he has indicated that development

company is fine with December date. No further notice will be required to the applicant. Again, I apologize for this error and I wish you all a happy Thanksgiving. Sign Dale as coffee. Now with that being said, what I would also like PL commission members to do if you could each email so we have in writing if in fact you will or will not be in attendance to Mr. Strader's office. So that way he's the one that sets up our agenda. And if everybody could indicate, I know that I already spoke with Mrs. Cideritz and she will not be here. So if everybody could please do that and I will send this letter out um tomorrow to the plan commission members that are not here in attendance tonight and ask them to please contact Mr. administrator for the December 23rd meeting. Does anybody have any questions on this that I could answer?

So, you want us to say we're going to be our attendance is done attending the 23rd.

Yes. If you could email Mr. Strader's office whether or not you will be because that is two days before Christmas and there are people like Mrs. firewoods that already is committed to being out of town and that'll give Mr. Strader a written something in writing and then he can prepare. If that's the only thing on our agenda and we're not going to have enough meet members here, then we need to make teenage investment aware so that that way they don't make a trip all the way down here for us not to have enough members here. Is that correct, Mr. Strader?

That is correct. Do you have anything to add to that? No. Mr. Cton, do you have anything to add to that? Yeah. Just as long as we can let them know in advance on it, we don't This is just an unusual circumstance and uh we just got to write the make the the wrong right and have them come back before us. Any other conversation on this? Okay. Next up, Mr. Donald, do you have [clears throat] something to talk about?

Yes. Excuse me. I'll try not to cough into the mic. Um, so we had formed a subcommittee to discuss the applications for downtown commercial historic district. Um, Mr. Scott and Mr. Bod and myself met uh earlier this month and we just kind of bounced some ideas off of each other and I think what we've landed on is probably to use the existing uh cover sheet. Um, I think tonight is a pretty good example that um, it it does have all the information on there. We weren't going to be reinventing the wheel. Um, we had several petitions that were complete with all the information that we would need. Um, so what I have passed out to everybody is uh, just some guidance on what type of information we would want to see for different requests. uh starting with our most common which is assign requests uh windows and doors exterior alterations and in the very rare circumstance that we have a new construction um so it just highlights that the more information we get the better informed decision we can make so I don't know what I wanted to do is everybody take a look at this if you think that it's missing something, let's bring it back to the December meeting and we can certainly add to it. It's just a word document. Um, my thought is if if in December we all agree on it, I'll just email it to Lisa and Bob and maybe it just becomes page two of the application. Well, yeah. We we seen both sides of the fence tonight um with just on the sign,

but we also seen fully documented drawings and and very thorough on what they needed. So, yeah.

So, we just we felt like this would help. So, but we did want to give everybody we could have gotten really ind depth with this and it's a ninepage ordinance in total. So, again, just we don't need to reinvent the wheel. is just encourage people the more information, the more pictures if they're going to have elevation plans or blueprints, you know, provide those as early as possible so that we can, you know, we're not making rush decisions.

Could you do the same thing that I'm going to do? Uh since we have several members not here tonight, could you uh send this out with a little explanation in an email so that that way they've got a heads up before December if anybody I know Mr. Bod's already on your subcommittee? Yes. Um I don't have a problem doing that as long as it as long as it's not going to You don't want to run it by coffee before you do. I was I was going to say the same thing. So, I don't know.

I mean, since it's purelyformational, it's and and if the members had been in attendance tonight, they would have this. I mean, I will send out a an email with it as an attachment. Do not respond. I mean, that might be the safest thing to do. Yes. You don't need no responses. No responses. No conversation. This is just for information. You wasn't here. Yes. And uh if you'll copy Dale on it so that way he sees what we got since he's not here. I can do that.

And I'll just uh give the approval to do it. Any other discussion? Mr. Strader.

So I do have a question here. when you talk windows and doors, can you kind of explain to me your thoughts of what you're thinking? So, and I and I apologize. I've read this ordinance so many times that I'm I'm starting to jumble it up in my head, but um I think we need to see if somebody's going to replace a window. So, you're not referring to signage in the glass on the glass? No, that's it. I understand. Thank you.

I think a good uh I'm just reading your mind. I think a good one uh to fall back on is the uh the building that the clerk's office is now in the upstairs windows. I I think that was clearly a

we didn't ask the right questions and if we had a visual on that would have probably been something different because I put in the same window that was in that opening but it wasn't the window that was originally for that building. Um, so my question to to ask of that topic, what would you expect to be put in there? I believe the ordinance states that it it the window has to fill the original opening. Yes. Okay. [clears throat] So, can't use you can't reduce the opening.

Can't reduce the original masonry opening. Okay. I think again

again I was I was going down the path that materialwise, see what I'm saying? I believe at one time the downtown space uh they looked more like uh they had regulations on what material window would be put in that opening. Well, now today, as we all know, u vinyl clad, that type of thing is is a given. I mean, they're they've replaced uh Mr. Finnman had to replace a lot that he had on the square in the last uh we'll say four, five months. You know, we're it will be coming in front of you for the new building here on the the corner. So, I just want to be clear that I understand the opening size needs to be filled.

Yes. And I don't think and Mr. Richardson's still here in the building uh listening to our discussion, which is what is I don't think that that would apply to your building as what they've done with them big windows that was there when Sears was there. that's been reduced because they put apartments in there and that's been done so many years that's kind of history and would I be right Mr. Journal not saying that they're want to replace anything

that would I would want clarification on on the ordinance.

Okay, Mr. Rich, would you like to add to this discussion? really speak for specifics of our building. But like to previously the historical society had tried to replace the siding. They suggested we replace it back with a an original type picture window. However, that's someone's living room and I don't know many people that want to sit on corner of Jefferson Washington watching TV while everyone can see them. I think that there should be some sort of provisions that take into account the interiors of the buildings as many buildings have may have something covering a window. I know we have some upstairs windows that are covered with apartments inside also that it's not practical to turn that back into a window. So that is something I would be concerned about in the future if we

Well, and you're you're not doing anything at this point, correct? We're just replacing some of the rotten wood on the windows that are existing, but again, like that's something that has come up before and would like to make sure that we're not getting pigeon holed. They have to redesign the whole inside of the building just to get a picture window that would not actually right do anything well and I just thought since we're having this discussion over what we're looking at and you're in in you're you're present that I didn't want you to feel like that we was going somewhere and you was like whoa what were going to happen no

am I correct in that record y does anybody have any other discussion I entertain a motion for I'll make a motion that we adjourn and have a happy Thanksgiving. Do I hear a second? I will second that. Jason Scott makes a second. All those in favor? I oppose. Meeting adjourned. Yes. Everybody have a wonderful happy Thanksgiving and enjoy your family.