Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Sweet pepper. What did you do? morning. Facebook But it is Facebook. It only showed like six. Yeah. Do you have a copy of the April 22nd? They do not. That's the one that we could

find. Yeah, I do have a copy. Okay. I just want to have a sign. Yeah, I know. Is this the third? No, it's the last 24.

It's now 6 o' start with a roll call. You want to go ahead and start? I'd be glad to marry D Miller Julie Jennings. Has everybody had time to review the minutes from last month? Yes. Yes. Can I get a motion to approve the minutes from last month? I approve the minutes. You make Do you make a motion? Yes, I make a motion to approve the minutes. Second. All in favor? I I So, we're going to start with the first one on the docket. address of 1580 Josephine Street, Martinsville, Indiana. Yes. Would you like to speak on that behalf? Yes. Go ahead and come up here, state your name, and put your name on the paper. No pen. Yeah. Okay. I'm Rob Rollins. Um, I've got some photos I'd like to pass out. Please do. You will be an expert on this before it's done. So basically we're just asking for a sideyard setback from 10 foot to 6'2 in. The property is actually going to be 26 foot away from Josephine Street because there's another small parcel. It's like an easement in between the

parcel we're looking at purchasing and the road. on the drawing there. That's where the house. Is there anything else you'd like to say about it or I think that's that's about Yeah, we pretty much covered everything, right? they're set. That's Joseph. You got you got here and then he's talking 26 feet off of that. Is that correct? Yes. Can I see that problem? They get done looking at it. You guys should have a second. Okay. I thought you you wrote on that there's red markings. Yeah, I see that. So, since you don't have anything else, I'm going to ask if there's anybody opposing it. Okay. Okay. Would you like to speak? Would you like to speak? Uh, I had a conversation with him. Don't forget to state your name. Put your name on the paper. Yeah. Okay. Ed Latel, Franklin Latell, whatever you want to call me today. Uh, I live right across the

street from the property in question and I had an opportunity to talk with uh Rochester. Yes. about what his plans were. And my main objection has always been trying to run driveways out on that corner of Victor Drive. It's just not safe the way the streets are set up. And he assured me that he would try to run the uh driveways and the parking coming in off of Josephine Street. That was my whole concern all along. uh the setbacks being front and back or side to side. That really wasn't a problem with me. Thank you. Does the board have any questions? So, tonight you're asked u there's been proposed findings in fact presented by the petitioner. uh this is a variance from developmental standards. So you have to find uh three different uh finds of fact that would exist. All three have to be present. Um so the petitioner is proposing the findings of fact being mean number one that the approval will not be injurous to the public health, safety, morals and general welfare of the community for the following reasons. We're asking for a reduced sight setback to build a duplex. The duplex is 37 feet 8 in wide and a width and property is 50 feet. So we are asking for the setback to be reduced 3 foot 10 in on each side of the duplex. Number two, the use and value of the area adjacent to property included in the variance will not be affected in a substantially adverse manner for the reasons that the building of the duplex will improve the look of the addition

with a brick facade, a 612 roof pitch, hipped roof on a slab and landscape. This will improve the look of the addition neighborhood and surrounding houses. And then number three, the strict application of terms the zoning ordinance will result in practical difficulties in the use of the property. Um the actual pract difficulties found to exist here are as follows. The duplex is large to fit on the lot and a current 10 foot side setback police attached survey showing the duplex on the lot. They're proposing no stipulations. So um board is free to If you if you make a motion to approve, you're free to approve the findings of fact as presented by the petitioner or you're certainly free also to uh enter your own findings fact. Uh there's something different you would like to see. But again, you have to find that they meet all three of those findings. Since we have three members here tonight, we do have a quorum, but it to in order to pass, it will take all three to uh vote in favor. um as it was written. I second. All in favor? I I It's been approved. Congratulations. Thank you. The next on the uh the docket is Janine Martin and Jeff Martin. They're wanting to build a um wedding a building

for wedding gatherings, small wedding gatherings, and possibly down the line um cabins to stay in on North L right across Hackings. Would you guys like to come and speak on that behalf? Can we both come? Sure. Just make sure you put both names in your I'm Jeannie Martin and I'm Jeff Martin. Uh we printed out a topical view of what we'd like to do here. Um we want to start with the pavilion on the waterfront. Um, we pass on. Okay. So, last time we were here, we we talked about all of the um obstacles that we face on this property. one being the the drainage onto the street. Um and then we received an email regarding the um fire trucks getting in and out and so forth. Um our intention our intention with this project is is to do it up to code by all means. Um Mr. Oaks provided a book of um it was about a book, right, of what the requirements would be for to address that drainage issue and we don't have a problem complying with that at all. Um

so also the cabins that we want to put on here will be um in nature on the hill above the water. Um, people want to be in nature, but they don't want to be bothered by nature, if that makes sense. So, we plan to have um luxury in nature. That's our goal with this project. We really don't want more than five cabins on the land at this time. Um, we'll see how that how that goes, if it's approved. Um if we if we do need to expand on that at a later time, um we'll see about doing that then. Um but like I said with our cabins, we do intend for those to also be up to code and we plan to work with the planning commission for anything that we do there. So we understand that we are on a light industrial zoning manufacturing as it is or or whatever that entails. and what we're asking to do is something lesser than the zoning. We also don't see what else can be done at that property. Um it's not really I mean I I don't see how we could put anything in there that um would constitute u manufacturing because um it has already been manufactured as much as it can be being the the quarry in our opinion. So um it's a beautiful pa place that we want to bring people from all over into Martinsville. And I have also talked with our locals um the local businesses um one in particular the brick house on Maine. I have no intention or we have no intention to compete um with that

project. In fact, we don't want this to be um a party place. We strictly want this to be a ceremony venue and then we want the people to go have their reception with at the brick house with Michelle. Right. So that's not not what we're after. We just want a couple hours. We want to rent it out for a couple of hours at the time at um and then maybe some smaller gatherings for family reunions or whatever the case may be in renting the small venue. Um we're not talking about putting signs on it either. We basically want to start with a roof because it's a it's a beautiful setting. I don't know if anyone had made it out there or not, but um yeah, so it's just a beautiful setting. We we want to bring people here from all over to experience it. It's it's like the little Grand Canyon of Martinsville. So, do you have anything else? I'm just here for questions. If there are questions about infrastructure. Okay. I know Dell's got some I don't see anybody that's opposing it to speak. So um does anybody is anybody opposing it to speak? Is any of the board meeting does any of the board have any questions about it? What what is your projected time frame? When would you start construction? Well, um that first we have to clean it up. Um there's a lot of cleanup required because that property has been abused as it sits. Um so we don't know how long it's going to take us to get it cleared and cleaned. So I mean ideally I would love to start tomorrow. I mean, that's why we kind of hurried along with this process and we came in here in April because we wanted to start clearing some

of the saplings and and that before the leaves all came in and um but we didn't take any equipment out there till we got an answer here. So, as soon as possible, hopefully within the next year or two. You've already purchased this property, correct? We purchased it. Yes, we Yes. Mhm. If for some reason it doesn't get approved in the the manner that you would like, do you have any other options or ideas for that property? Not that we know of personal use after the meeting. I I can run one by. Okay. If it does not Okay. Thank you. What uh you want to start with the pavilion. So um are you thinking about having water? What are you going to do about um septic sewer? What's the thoughts on that? It is city sewer, city water. So, we would we would definitely plan on using the city's facilities. Okay. Have lift station. Yes. To the city. Okay. So, you'd have to install the lift station on there. Yes. Okay. Great. Um, I know it was after last meeting that that um I think somebody from the city had some discussion maybe with you or maybe with Mr. Burket concerning our our fire ordinance in regards to the the width of that roadway and the turning radius up there. Do you have enough room to make it? Um, again, this was a a working rock quarry. So, all the big trucks were up there and pulling out. And yes, it's a big wide roadway and there's plenty of space up there and and you know, we just what we'd have to do is is get the fire inspector there and sure find out what's required and it just probably means more excavation and more infrastructure to to create that

clearance. And again, we plan to do it by code. We want, you know, Jeff and I have been running multi-million dollar businesses for the last 20ish years of our lives. So, we we know how to do this. So, in all transparency though, they did give you an idea the approximate amount of cost. No, no, no. So first step is if we gain approval then then we simply have to go out and and work with contractors to try put a budget together and and they'll tell us what we what options are. And if the budget is out of our league then you know this may be a waste of time right um and and we've looked at all of the things. Okay. So, this is a big investment for us. And we're also looking at what that end of town looks like to people. I mean, and it it could use some improvement. So, that's a factor for us as well, but we're willing to overlook that. Chairman, city is certainly not against this. It's a wonderful idea. It's a grand plan. Uh our caution is that there's a lot involved. I've seen a lot of developers lose a lot of money and the second guy takes over and is successful at it. There's a lot to this. I've provided them code requirements. Fire department is regarding their requirements. The next step in here is engineering and architectural drawings something we can approve the building building department. Uh that step could be first step could be just what they were asking for. Go ahead and clean up the site. Are you folks uh okay with uh agreeing

as a stipulation that that road would be paved? I would like to know how much of the road you're talking about. Are you talking about from Blue Bluff to our entrance? Talking about that section or talking about from Blue Bluff to your entrance including the turning radius? That's no problem. Okay. entrances. That's where I was getting at. Okay. As far as the price Oh, the price for to get it done. I see. Yeah. I think it it's the water catch has to be concreted in. So, it Yeah. And then I don't think anything else would ever survive unless it's because the water carries everything away. So, I just don't I think that it has to that way otherwise uh it's it's not it won't sustain. Is the bottom of that road shared with Joe Brandy? Yes, it's a shared. Yeah. So, we do have Yeah, because like I said last time in my way of thinking it would need to be paved and you would need to have the the graded the grates at the bottom where it adjoins blue glove to be able to catch that water running off there and then carry it down. Yeah. Anybody else have any questions? I would assume if a motion was presented that it would be as long as they stayed up to code was presented to them and they went they abided by that. What what about the possibility of a tiered approval where you start with this is what you must bring to us next and then the next tier of that. I

think there could be some advantage to that because they can do some back plaining and some it might save them time. It might actually save you some money as well if you I mean we've introduced the idea that you have to have the asphalt the paved right um and then in in addition adding to that motion that that u you know the as verification that all codes have been met or whatever if they're codes I'm using the right term I don't know but a verification that that this is how we plan to meet those kinds of things because that would give you the opportunity to go ahead and get started with factf finding because it this is going to be expensive venture. There's no doubt about it. It's just going to it's going to be an expensive venture and to try to to give you that approval for everything all at one time. I don't know. I I I'm just I'm just you know what you're asking for is conceptual drawings that you can do some budgeting off of do that. So So my my question or my thought is if if we don't have approval to do it all of it is what will support the investment. I see. So I I don't stair stairstepping essentially we'd have to put money out there potentially a lot of money and then find out that potentially we don't get accepted. If you say yes, just meet the codes, put a put a water basin in the drive, then then as long as you're following codes, you can do this. Now we now I can put a plan together

that says this is what revenue we can bring in to support the cost of of this infrastructure. And I am I'm I'm just I'm just literally in my own mind thinking what is the is the most expeditious way to get this done for you and for the city. But you're right. I mean if you want to if you want to invest the time and effort into that that's what you're asking for. Then it's up to the board to determine if that's what you do. Um, orient me a little bit more on this diagram. So, am I am I looking at what is a like a That's the quarry right there in the center. Um, it's the lake is in the center. Center. Okay. And the parking where is that exactly? Is that down base? Yes. Yes. Okay. When you come into to the property, you turn left and then you circle around and it's it's a large area. That's right. What is the plan? What's the plan for? Is it you run a shuttle to take people up to what I believe is this pavilion in the cabins or how how we can shuttle if we need to. We can we can shuttle um or people can walk. It's beautiful. Absolutely. Yeah. So, but you know I'm at the point where I'm going to like where's the shuttle? My mom, right? I completely understand. Right now we have the gator to take her back and forth, but but if we were um renting the place out for a nice wedding, we would we would have our multi-seated Sure. golf cart or whatever for that purpose. So the reason I think the reason why the what she's saying as far as approving it, it's at a certain level is because when you start introducing cabins and water, people living up there, it changes. Okay. We don't want people to live there

renting it out for like a day or Yes. two days. And so this is this is where um we have to decide what to do with the water if we want to include the water as part of this. Um we have insurance to deal with with that. Um but I will tell you it is a very nice feature to have. Right. Are you talking about I'm sorry interrupt. Are you talking about the the actual the code is different whenever people are renting out the cabins and staying up there? The code change they have to to do more like Mr. Del Coffee was talking about as far as the fire trucks coming in turn. So are you talking about water access for utility use the water or the lake? So the pavilion, yes, correct me if I'm wrong, but the pavilion wouldn't be as strict restrictions as far as what you're going to meet if right now all you had was the pavilion. Once you start adding in the rental cabins, the restrictions what you have to meet is greater. Okay. So that then begs to question, are we here to get a variance for the business or for the rules of what that entails? Like we said, we totally intend to follow all of the code requirements to run this business. Um, but does the board want to approve a variance, use variance so that we can start this business? But again, we plan to bring it to code and back to bringing getting budgets on what it's going to cost to get us in to there. As we said, it's pretty involved to to create the road and the wid and

the drainage. I don't I think we need the cabin to know that we have those as as potential income to know that we can afford that portion of I understand when you go to the bank you need a this is how much you'll roughly be making I mean we're looking at a a legacy investment the same as the whole downtown the phenomenon Mullen project right I mean I the ROI is probably way in the future so yeah for sure I mean so yeah what the applicants are asking to do now is approve a use variance to be able to use the property not as the I1 light industrial zoning as it currently is, but to use it and have a variance of use for the idea that they have, which would include a pavilion and and including and what I hear tonight is up to five cabins. I think you guys need to put a limit or or a number on these cabins when you approve it as far as what your motion would be. In addition to that, you you obviously have to make the findings that there the five findings of fact for a use variance have been met. The applicants have presented to you in your packet what they would like you to adopt in regards to those five different uh stipulation or five different elements. But it's up to you to either adopt those or to come up with something different. I would then suggest that number six is your stipulations to run with the variance. That's where you would include language that the there has to be a drain catch base at the intersection of the private road and the um property of Blue Bluff Road. Private road must be asphalt from Blue Bluff Road to the property entrance including the turning radius. Um, I think those need to be stipulations. And then your other stipulation would be if you want to put a number of cabins that you're going to

limit them to build as in eventually or just now. Well, again, you're if you're going to approve tonight is the use. So you I know you don't have a conceptual plan about where these are going to be placed or whatever, but again they would have to comply with our ordinance in regards to setback and those sorts of things when they place these cabins on site. Example, how much space it actually takes per cabin to actually put it there and how far away from each that that would be that's that's already included in what our ordinance is. So when the building department would issue them building permits, they would make sure that's all done. they would do the inspections. They would they would approve all that. But you certainly can put as a stipulation a limit on the number of cabins you're going to approve. Okay? And so right now we we would ask for that number to be five. We don't know that we would ever want to do more than that. and and later on if we see that that it's something that's successful and manageable and we would like to do more then we at that time come back and ask for permission for whatever that looks like. There are four acres there to work with. So well got besides the water the lake I would like to make a motion to approve on the condition of what Mr. C was saying that which you already plan on doing as far as paving the driveway with the turnaround trucks um big trucks like fire engines um and the number of five cabins that you're saying um and then you obviously stay within stipulations of code

Thank you. Do I have a second? I second. So, let me go ahead and let me get let me get this in the record so that we capture everything and make sure this is what your motion is since it's now been moved and seconded. So, I understand the motion would be to approve a variance of use um for this property that is on North Blue Bluff Road doesn't currently have a street address. Um with uh the approve with the finds of fact being that the approval will not be interest to the public health, safety, morals, and general welfare of the community due to the following reasons. This land was once a shale quarry. Since then, it's become a neglected dump site. as you see the beauty uh and potential and would like to redeem it into a gathering site. Uh number two, the use and value of the area adjacent to the property included the variance will not be affected in a substantially adverse manner because our intention for proposed use is not industrial whether it is peaceful and beautiful gathering site. Number three, the need for the variance arises from some condition peculiar to the property involved, namely most of the property is a body of water limiting space for industrial use. Four, the strict application of the terms of zoning ordinance will constitute unnecessary hardship if applied to the property for which the variance is sought. Namely, the strict application of the zoning ordinance to not allow a less intense use of this property would be a hardship in itself. Property's ideal location attract people to Martinsville. And number five, the approval does not interfere substantially with the comprehensive plan adopted. There's 500 series of this chapter because whether this property is used as a rental uh rental or light industrial use, both uses fall under commercial use, granting a variance protects encompassing plan versus seeking a lesser resilient of the

property. With that, there would be stipulations that would run with the land and with this project. Number one, that a catch bas a drain catch basin would be installed at the intersection of the private road and Blue Bluff Road. Number two, the private road will be asphalt from Blue Bluff Road to the property entrance, including the turning radius according to our ordinance. And that you're allowing the building of a pavilion as well as five cabinet rental cabinets. So that's an you're adding that to the motion basically as kind of an agenda. This would be a stipulation has to be added to the findings of fact. Okay. The fines of fact end up getting recorded. So this will be part of that has to run with the land. So they're now going to have to do that in order for this project to uh comply. Does the motion need to be amended in any way to uh probably just make a motion if you want to approve what I just read as the actual motion then we'll have a second. I'll make a motion to approve Dell Coffee has read. I second it. All in favor? I I Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you for your time. be fun to watch it happen. Yes. [Music] Yeah. So, I'm going to have this will have the um read the types and then what we've come up with now as a department is there's

A separate page that we're going to put on these that will be signed by you and acknowledges that on such such a date the board approve the variance based upon the proceedations and by and then whoever president signed that they so I just move that you can say that a motion was made and seconded to approve as by [Music] to find and they do their budget experience 24 months. It was everything I was thinking. Okay. So, I'm going to write this down. Yes. Um, sorry. The next meeting would be June 24th here at 6 p.m. I get a motion to adjourn. I make a motion we adjourn the meeting. All favor. meeting. And I I

guarantee you not. One further down. Who knows? Roach. You got to play your time. [Music] Steve, did you see those drawings and information they sent out in Charlotte Friday or Thursday?

transportation place. [Music] I tried but like I'm fine. I'm not fine. I don't [Music] Okay. At 7:00 p.m., I'd like to call the planning commission for the city of Martinsville, Wednesday, May the 28th, 2025 to order. First up, our secretary is not with us this evening, so I'd like to uh ask for somebody to keep minutes this evening. I'd be glad to. Steve Bodie. Okay, Steve's going to keep minutes. With that said, Steve, would you do roll call, please? Sure will.

Richard Baston, Steve Bod is here. Jim Burkart here. Joe Disney here. Rick Dell here. Caleb Forester. Richard Peacock here. Ann Miller present. Jason Scott. Marilyn Ciderwits. I see Troy Swan is not here. So, I'm marking this absent as well. So, we have six members here present. We do have a quorum. I'd ask that if everybody uh would please have you looked over the minutes from last month. Only thing I noticed at the top of page two, the last sentence of that paragraph says the sign would extend out no more than 36 feet. I think that was inches. Inches. Where is that, Rick? Uh the very first paragraph at the top of page two. Okay, Steve is making changes there. Does anybody else see anything he's corrected in the minutes? She's not feet. I make a motion that we uh pass the minutes um with the correction of the feet to inches 36 feet to 36 in. I'll second that. Okay, we have a a motion and a second. All those in favor? I opposed.

Okay. Minutes are approved with the correction. Okay. Next up, uh, new business, docket number PC number 250009, historic district approval. Approval to change the inside and outside of a building. Address 1881 190 East Morgan Street, back of the building. owner is Red Brick Trading LLC. Is there a representative present? Would you please come forward? There's a signin sheet there. If you please uh state your name and and fill out the signin sheet. I'm Ron Stanhouse. I'm the owner of Red Brick Trading. Okay. Um building department, Mr. Strader. Um, do you have all your uh mailings as well as notice of publications turned in or anything that needed to be done on this in the downtown district? Notification is not necessary. Uh but I do want to say that uh back several months ago when Ron was in uh presented a drawing, I uh informed him he needed to take that renderings to the state. We've not received anything back from the state for this project. Okay. Thank you. Ron, you want to go ahead and make your presentation? That's interesting. I I thought we were cleared through the state and we're given certification. Ron, the procedure is that uh there's a set of drawings that you would provide and send to the state.

The state would uh view them and send them back which would be a CDR which is a design release. I have not received anything. Can I show you? I have. Did you see any of that? That's the architect's package for the state. What are you saying? You need to submit that to the state. The state design release for commercial building of the structural changes. The state approved that. I don't have any. We didn't get a photo. So, you got a copy of it. That's what that's all to do with what you're doing here. Right. Right. Right. Okay. So what you're saying is that the building department has not received the the stuff approval from the state. Okay. But Ron can go ahead and present this and we can do our thing and then and then and you and him can get together on the approval from the state. We receive that document. We can uh we can do a permit process and Ron will be able to move forward. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So do we need to table this then? here. Oh, sure. Okay. Okay, Rob, go ahead. Well, so this presentation is essentially about a 2300 square foot twocar garage that sits It hasn't been assigned in address, although architect found something from

long ago. Maybe 124 North Sycamore. Uh I call it 140 North Sycamore, but at some point they'll get addressed. Excuse me, Ron. But what what will happen is once uh we receive that document, we will reach out to the county, they will assign an address to that location. I refer to it as 140, but that's for conversation purposes. Um twocar garage, unfinished. Um it was formerly Ham Machine Shop. I I saw hams operate out of there. I've been around for best part of 18 less than 20 years. So they used to run the forklifts in and out of that garage and kept materials and you know big barrels. But um so they sold that quite a number of years ago to me and I've just kept cars in it as a garage. But as the downtown has filled up and become more successful, there's fewer and fewer, if now maybe no vacant buildings downtown. So it seemed like it's time to finish out an unfinished building in the nine block downtown, turn it into usable retail space. Is it you don't know whether it's going to be one or two spaces just depending on the potential leasing? It had the potential for both. Personally, I lean towards one 2300 foot space. But in your drawings here, you're showing there's two smaller man doors with two larger glass areas. So that's

the one the architect picked. Okay. Oh, we have it as a a one door space as well. Okay. Mr. Stanhouse, what is the um what's the exterior material? Um it that's drawn to be a sighting some kind of a hardy plank potentially. Okay. And really the only reason I asked that most of the buildings that we look at for this are brick. So, we're I think the whole reason that we ask people to come forward is so that we know they're keeping with the historic materials. Um, and I pulled up some of the old fire maps and uh between 1908 and 1916 they had it labeled as corrugated steel on a woodframe building. So, the stucco is not it's not historically accurate anyway. Um, I don't know how everybody else feels about a synthetic material rather than brick, but I don't I don't have any evidence that this building ever was brick in the section. So, there's damage to that building, which kind of accelerated my application for this renovation. Rather than just renovate a old building that needed everything, you know, repair it, let's just renovate it completely so it can be productive, usable space. The contractor identified it as ceramic brick underneath and maybe you noticed, maybe you went by and looked, but it's been damaged by the neighbor who ran his car

into it. So, it's fragile ceramic brick. So, I don't know when the the plaster went over the top. Are there any other questions for Mr. Stan House? We since we approved the facade, we really can't prove the facade if we don't know exactly what it's going to be looking like, right? As far as one building or two if you're going to have one door or two doors. So, I think I have to tell the contract I mean two giant windows and then one small window and a door. That's where I'm going. The architect up is A and B. I'm sorry. What What did you say, Rob? I don't know. Do you have that? You probably do. So the architect drew it two different ways for us to evaluate. I I just seem to see it as a one unit 2300 square feet. So rather than two doorways and a wall up the middle, it was just a smaller window. So it's going to be essentially two businesses, right? One business. Oh, a two door. No, to take the door out and it's just a window. Huh? It'll just be some panes of of glass, one door, and the other one would be Okay. Does the rendering looks like it's too it right? Do you have a tenant in mind already?

No, I originally was poking around for like a restaurant, you know, food service. a client want to do some catering to an art sanctuary next door, but um it really hasn't been and it's a difficult business as I been doing it for nearly 40 years. But um in Bloomington, but um I think it it could be an easy retail space, light use. There's there's a lot of foot traffic anymore downtown. I just would like to see some additions to the retail Do we know how many vacant businesses we have downtown right now? Are you saying vacant business? Yes. Yeah. We don't have a large amount, but I want to make a point clear here. Um what Ron has presented in speaking of one door when this application goes to the state, the state might revert back to two means of egress and there is a door on the alley. So would it be prudent to table this at this time until it comes back from the state? Well, I'd like to see I would like to see what it's actually going to look like and how once it's approved by the state before we we approve it personally. I I want to see the final what's finally going to look like. So, so tableabling it would be I would think we table till we get some more information till you get approved and we

get a final allocation for Okay. If it's a single I'm sorry. If it's a single office, they're all two means of e eress. If you try to split that up, then that one that's 2B Southside does not have a second exit like it needs. Okay. Well, it just seems like there's a lot of kind of unknowns right now. So I would like I would move to table docket number 25009 until we have more information and back from the state and okay we have a motion on the floor table. Mr. Burkhart seconded the motion. All of those in favor I I opposed. Okay. Motion carries. Okay. Thank you Ron. Sure. I'll get with you. Okay. Okay. Next up on under new business, we have docket number PC25010, a preliminary planned unit development request. Approval of 46 lots in Indian Creek Village, section 4. Uh address is 75 Industrial Drive. Owner is Indian Creek Homes LLC. Is there a representative here? If you can please state your name. Name is Caleb Tols. Can you spell your last name, please? T O W L E S. Caleb with a K with a C. Thank you. Building department. Do we have all the certified mailings as well on this and notices turned in? We do. Yes. Okay. Caleb, go ahead and give your presentation. No, we're planning on doing the next phase. This obviously

this is a preliminary doing the next phase of the Indian Creek uh village the on the east side 46 lots as he had stated. Uh you can see that on the sheets that you have or I hope you have the drawings in front. Okay. Um so yeah happy to answer any questions you have. So this is on Industrial Drive. No, it's right off Artisian. It's right. Okay. It says something about Industrial Drive. So it says approval of 51 lots, but you're asking for 26. We actually recently changed it. uh they allowed us to go ahead and change it to 46. We made the building footprint a little bit bigger. So we reduced the number of lots so that the building size could be a little bit larger. to my knowledge. Okay. But you know how things can change. Okay. [Music] Any other questions for Mr. This is an existing PUB and so this is an update showing new units that are platted. Um does the city have any building inspector or city have any response on the layout or the size of the lots? Is it consistent with the P? I would ask you to table this tonight because you're taking the stink out of

my hands. Uh we have continual problems with storm water remediation of the site homes that don't have finished streets going to them. Streets that uh were just closed today because we asked them to be closed. Uh we're just not ready for this yet. There are homes left to be built on and the other streets in there. You you take my stick away. I still have a stick by charging violations for every day. I don't want to charge him money, but that would be my option. So, you have issues with what they are doing now in their existing development, right? Yeah, we've not complied with the existing development. How can I assure you they will in the future? And what are the issues again, Gary? I'm sorry. What are the issues you're having? Uh, storm water, silt, uh, finishing roads, access for people in and out, those kind of things. Mr. Toul, you have a response to that. Well, I'm not the one doing the building, but obviously I'm here to present for this is just a preliminary so that we can start doing design work in regards to the construction and what takes place there. That's outside my hands, outside my control. Um, it is a job site that is under construction as it is. So, as far as streets not being completed and things that are going on, uh, sounds like a regular job site to me. But, but again, that's that's Gary's department, not mine.

Do we have any other questions for either the building department? So, none of these issues have been communicated to you before today? No. Have those issues been communicated to the owners of the property? Well, for instance, uh London Drive is the one that goes tough have to text directions and you have five streets that end in one street that's a Lyndon that goes across the bottom of all of them. Two weeks ago, I took a picture in there of traffic coming through there, the bud hole, tracking it out on the street. I called the owner about it, and went back yesterday and took pictures of the same thing, only it was much worse. It was a readymix truck, just drove through all that mud, drove it out onto Elm Street and Artion. I think the answer was yes. I guess I got question for Mr. Coffee. Is since this is a preliminary request, is that really does that really fall into us to hold them accountable for that at this point? Well, what you have presented to you tonight, the application is preliminary plat approval for section 4 of Indian Creek Village pursuant to what has been presented to you. So, that's what is before you this evening in regards to what you're asked to make a decision on.

Is the is is the city council aware of these issues? Who are you asking that to? Rick, anybody that can answer? I mean, does anybody know if the issues that we're talking about here? Does it The city council eventually approved all this? Right. Right. We've never been made aware of this. I I mean, I've never been made aware of this. So, the city council's involvement was back when the uh property was zoned PUB. Okay, that's the extent the city council's involvement because under statute they're uh asked to ultimately approve reszoning requests. All right. Once they approve reszoning requests, anything to do with plats, approval of plat, enforcement of ordinances, enforcement of the plat requirements falls under plan commission andor building department planning and zoning, right? It's not within the purview of the city council. Okay. I I guess all I'm saying is clearly the city council approved the other sections after we did, right? for for the entire land to be zoned PUB. Yes. But I think that entire land, all sections, was approved at one time as a plan unit development. They were going to develop it in sections, which that's what they're doing. But as far as the zoning, that was all done at one time several years ago by by the city council. Yes. And Rick, as you see, this pled goes back 20 five years maybe if you drive into the old older sections of any creek back through there. Uh there's no ho there is no HOA for instance. So you have some really terrible conditions back through there. It's the difference with the putt. We

did a putt just a couple of years ago that's now harbor homes built in there. There's an HOA there. There's landscaping all across our there's trees and bushes. There's street lighting. There's quite a difference what was allowed then and what we would allow now. Right. Did you get your question answered? Uh I think so. Okay. Any more conversation? So Dale, we're just asked at this time to approve the lots so that they can start the engineering process. I'm sorry. It would be the engineering process. Okay. Yeah. So that's basically all we're asked to do. Yeah. They're asking to approve preliminary plat section 4 so they can move forward with engineering. They'll have to present a final plat before they can actually start doing any construction, any, you know, moving of dirt, that sort of thing. Why make a motion that we approve docket number PC25010? [Music] And we have a motion on the floor to approve. I make a motion that we approve. I'm sorry. I make a motion that we approve docket number 255010. I'd second that. Okay. We have a motion and a second on the floor. All those in favor? I I opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. Next up under new business, docket number

2511, historic district approval. It's approval for the remodel of the Morgan County Courthouse, address 10 East Washington Street. Owner is Morgan County, Indiana Building Corporation. Is our representative here? Mr. Chairman, I'm going to abstain from I have a disclosed conflict of interest. I'm employed by Morgan County, so I'll be abstaining from any discussion and voting. Okay, sir, if you'd please state your name and write your information down there. You look familiar. Yes, you've probably done this before. Yes, just a few times. Good evening. My name is Brian Ker. live at 190 North Fourth Street and I am the proud representative for District 1 for the Morgan County Commissioners. On behalf of the commissioners in Morgan County, we're bringing you some renderings of what we're very excited to do, what we've been working on for many, many years. Um I have brought as many of you who I've known for most all my life when it comes to the technical issues I am smart enough to bring in a technical expert. So I will yield a lot of the technical questions to him but I just wanted to present to this board. Uh I've had the opportunity to come before the city council. I've had the opportunity to come before the board of works. Uh naturally this all started with the Morgan County Council because they had to appropriate the funds. Um, I find it in my uh 55 years, next month, 56 years of being here, a very exciting time for

our community. Um, you can go back in and and look at what we're doing and why we're doing it and and we as we complete the judicial campus. Um, this is just the third phase of that and we're starting to have people question. So, you know, I encourage them to move to town and buy a paper because this has been going on for many, many, many months and years. We've probably met with the executive group, uh, Gary McDunn, the mayor on this very topic many, many times. Um and and the reason why is on a project of this magnitude uh communication and you know communication face to face and not be via porch time and so and I know the the person that runs porch time and he'll be proud that I even mentioned him in a public meeting. So free plug for porch time but this this is why we come to these meetings. This is why we're expressing what we're doing so that people will hear it firsthand on where their tax dollars are going. And so we uh are moving the parking around. We are moving things around. Uh in 1974 there was a study of the downtown courthouse and it said it was obsolete and that it should probably be demolished, started over, moved, whatnot. They elected at that time in 74 to add to it. um in a month. Are these televised on YouTube? So these are live too. Well, in a month I can tell you one of the main reasons why we undertook uh renovating the courthouse uh and actually doing a whole new judicial center. And I've told many boards this story. Um two two things. one um the courthouse was started in

1857, completed uh just before 1860. It has served its purpose. Now we have to march prisoners and their in their orange jumpsuits down the halls right next to the people that are trying to keep them in prison or in jail for assaulting or whatnot. And I also tell this one, um a family was adopting a young child. Probably the greatest day in that child's life. They had their balloons and their their posters. And when the six prisoners walked by with their shackles on and their orange jumpsuits and their orange flip-flops, praise the Lord, the guy congratulated her and didn't say something derogatory. But there's they're that close. There's just no separation. You couldn't move the walls. You couldn't do this. If it's just not a good building to be a functioning court system anymore. Therefore, i.e. we started looking at going out. There's another main reason that I'll I'll announce publicly on July 2nd because of legal reasons. I've been told I can't. Um but with that, um the other two commissioners represent the other two districts. District one is uh all Washington Townships, Green and Jackson. And trust me, I wanted to keep uh past Martinsville as the county seat. I wanted to keep the court system in Martinsville. uh we had other communities that were very interested and very generous and offered us five acres if we had just moved the course system to their their town. So uh I'm proud to say that this is probably the greatest investment that the taxpayers have made in themselves in the history of Morgan County and this is the third phase. Now I get asked a lot why if we needed a new courthouse, why don't we just get rid of it? Why are we getting ready to put $24 million into it? Why? Why? Why? What a waste. Um I yield back to my education from Councilman Bob O'Neal probably 12 years

ago when I made the recommendation that we quit. We we' done heating and cooling and about $2 million worth of work to it. I said, "Why do we keep throwing money after this?" And I said, "We'll just tear it down." And Mr. O'Neal in a public meeting said, "Over my dead body." And and then I said, "That could be arranged." And then I found out you can't say stuff like that in public meetings. Not today. And no, not even back then. But you just said it again. I I know, but I'm already on record. So So I And Bob and I have have made up um what Bob taught me though after the meeting was is that we don't tear down the Washington Monument. We don't tear down the Lincoln Memorial. And as the county seat, you don't tear down the county courthouse. Now, the county has grown and as Mr. Stanhouse stated earlier, um downtown is is is growing. Shops are filling up and you know, um we need office space. So, had we tore it down, had we given it up, we would still have to as an accounting unit, go government unit, go out and get the office space. So, we brought in a team um to look at it. Uh and Mr. Ratz will explain, but we're going to totally remodel it. We're getting rid of the the the insides, the cabling, the water system, everything that you know we've been anything that you look at, we're going to touch it, clean it, modernize it, except we understand the important of history. And I actually ran on the campaign slogan, uh, respect the past, build the future. And that's what I I'm here tonight to help do with your assistance is respect our rich past and build for the future. I've also told this and I can't say it enough. Um I can't thank the taxpayers enough and I tell them if being conservative means

taking capital projects and passing it on to your grandchildren, then label me a rhino. With that, I'd like because I'm sure you have some technical questions on the looks and what we're doing. I'd like to introduce Eric Ratz. Go ahead. May I ask a quick question, Mr. Collier? Um, briefly, it will be administrative functions in what is the old courthouse? Yes. Are we going to call it the courthouse still? That is a very good debate. Yeah. Um, we we've thought about the signage on, you know, formerly known as the courthouse. You know, we we've debated that because there will there will be all kinds of confusion. But so other county offices will be back in that building. Yes. The treasurer, uh the the clerk or not the clerk, but the auditor. It'll we'll fill it up. We'll still be a little tight. One one thing that is essential is um I I'm a firm believer that we need to get our county employees out of the basement of our buildings. Our our basements were really never designed to house offices. They were designed to be for storage. And most every government building that has a basement now has offices in it. Just a quick question. When did you say what was the year that the um whoever that the comp whoever they brought in to to say what the you know what shape the courthouse was in? 1974. 1974. And they they said it was obsolete in 1974. Wow. Okay. And if you look at all these meetings and if you if you look at all the the things you jump through, I understand now. Uh I made this joke to the council when this first started. Um can anybody and I'll open it up here. Can anybody tell me the three commissioners in 1857 that commissioned the building of the courthouse? I the records were burnt in the late 1890s, I think, to cover up something funny. Nobody's really for sure. and I tell well the only thing I

can't tell you those three commissioners probably weren't reelected. Mr. Rats. All right. So I am Eric Ratz lifelong Martinsville resident. 57 and a half years ago Dale and I were in this room probably learning CPR for dads as they were firemen here. So I am the architect for the project. All of the projects with the county right now. I would like, as Commissioner Collier said, like to extend the invite to everyone right now, just as a side note, July 2nd at 5:30 p.m. is the building dedication. Lieutenant Governor will be there for the new judicial center. It's going to be a big deal. Um, as Commissioner Cer said, it's not happened since 1859. Everybody in Morgan County should go. It is a very unique situation from that point of view. So, I'm just going to give you a super highlight high overview of what we're doing on the project very specifically with the building. Um, as Commissioner Ker noted, we are touching literally every square inch of the building on the interior and the exterior, everything. So, most importantly, what you're most concerned about is the exterior of the building. Is back about 1990, they replaced um the roof on the building. They put the roof on. That's what is at this point now. Um, we are totally replacing the roof with all new roof panels. We're putting all new gutters, all new down spouts. The corbals, I will loosely say like what we had up here, you have on your building. We did it on the new fire station when we built that. The corbals are in horrific condition. We're replacing all that. all the sophets, all the fasces, all of the windows in the building, all the entry doors into the building. We are cleaning all of the brick, all of the stone on the building. Everything is being cleaned as you would do in a historic project. Okay? This is

not sand blasting 160 year old brick, which you would never do. This is pressure washing with the detergents that you use to clean exteriors of historic buildings. We're very very um cons you know just concerned about that overall pressure any tough pointing of the existing mortar. We use the right type of mortar because you don't use the same mortar that you use on brand new buildings today. It is a different type of brick and it requires different types of mortar. Um, you probably have read, we went through the city council or the the the um BCA and stuff about the whole site, all the everything on the site. Massive changes on the whole exterior. Um, um, it's all new landscaping, it's all new sidewalks, it's new curbs, we're changing some of the parking. It is it is completely going to improve the things on the exterior of the building. We are doing a small addition on what I would say is the northwest corner of the building. If currently as you walk into the building now um like where the security checkpoint is, if you would just go straight um what used to be the entrance and exit probably up until 20 years ago. Um we are doing an addition on the the northwest corner of the building. Um, we are doing that addition specifically to meet ADA requirements in the building. We're putting in an elevator that you actually can ride in more than one person that can also get a gurnie size elevator that goes up and down to the first and second floor of the building. We are also, if any of you have ever been in the courthouse, you've tried to use the restroom. It is extremely small. We're putting in new public toilet rooms, men's and women's on both the first floor and the second floor. We're putting in two new staff toilet rooms on each floor, card access. And then we are also putting in a

mother's room u obviously for breastfeeding mothers and things which is an ADA requirement which you should have in every building. Now that's a publicly owned building from that point of view. That is the addition. When you look at the exterior of the building, from my recollection and from my review of the building since 1859, that building's been added on to five times. You do you look around the building, there are, I believe, five different additions when we look at what was original to the building. We are going we are being as absolutely as sympathetic and trying to match to the best possible options that we can on brick color on stone color on the roof lines on the gables or on the gable on the north end with the the corals the sophet the fascia the down spouts even the little half round downspouts that we have now um it's going to be as absolutely as close as possible of matching it. You can't match it exactly. Okay. In no building can you match any kind of a brick when they're 160 years difference. But we are doing there's actually if you go on the the west side north end I think there's six or seven brick samples out there that we've been looking at. Y'all want to go take a look at there's some options from that point of view. Um interior commissioner Ker was right. Um other than loadbearing walls we're gutting the interior. It is going to look very different on the interior. Uh we are improving the exterior envelope of the building to make it actually more to meet the Indiana energy code with all the thermal characteristics of it. Um it is going to be sympathetic to the to the historic environment of the project um for what the building is, but it is going to be very modernized at the same time. I know Gary and Mac and the mayor have seen it more than once. We've shown them renderings of the interior of the

building. Commissioner Collier, all the commissioners have seen it. Council, county council have seen it. They're very impressive with what we're able to do. Just real quickly, I know the question was asked, but it is going to be um the uh reporter, the surveyor, plan commission or the planning office, the assessor, the treasurer, um soil and water, um the um blank here, if I didn't say the treasur, treasurer, basically the the only folks that are not moving from the existing building uh which we were working with is the commissioners, the council, they're going to be staying in the saddler room, the existing building. The um Purdue Extension staying in that building, the technology or the IT department is staying in the building. Everybody else is moving over here to the to the courthouse. The historic courthouse is what we're calling the project. Just uh also one other thing before I'll answer any questions. On February 24th of this year, 2025, we received the complete design, construction design release from the Indiana Department of Homeland Security. Mr. Straer was emailed a copy of it from the um uh from the state at that point in time, but we have the full release. What we are looking at is like I said July 2nd the building dedication the courts all the courts the clerk u Brian Foley community corrections they are all moving into the building there's a twoe period um like a I think it starts um a week the week after so that's the fourth it's like the 7th through then there's a twoe period that they're all moving into that um uh judge nun will be in operation after one week. Everyone else the courts are down for two weeks. We then start the renovation immediately

on the project and it will be substantially complete owner occupied the first quarter of [Music] 2027. Everything will be completed at that time. So I'm here to answer any questions. Obviously I'm a very passionate, you know, I think anytime you grow up in a community, you always remember your high school. Quite honestly, this building very near and near um your library and your courthouse and your church. Those are to me your most five important p or buildings and whenever you grow up in the community and I've been able to touch most all of those and I'm very proud of that. And this is I'm just asking a side note, what what's going to happen in the court services building? I can't that's that's a commissioner decision. I don't think that has anything to do right now and with what I know. I know. Sorry. Is there any other questions for Mr. Rad or Mr. So, what we're looking at on this is the exterior, the walls, the masonry, the windows, uh the tuck point doors, um the facade is everything that they're doing in line with the historic uh downtown and preservation of this court. Yes. Can I say one other thing please? So Mark Dasi who uh has spent his entire life and career working with the Indiana preservation um historic landmarks, he has been intimately involved in the design of the exterior building. Um he cannot give a written approval because there's not federal grants involved in the project. Okay, just be very clear on that. but he has been involved at every step of what we're doing on the exterior

of the building and from the Indian Landmark Society they have to give 100% approval of the project. He cannot give it in writing. Mark's just recently retired. But I will let you know that he asked extensively the materials, how we were cleaning, the types of windows, the types of entrance points, the types of portables, the fascia, the the sophets, the roof materials. Um just the because if you're aware of anything of historic projects in Indiana, Mark Delasi is the guy and we intimately bold him to make sure that he gave full approval and he did. Sounds like you checked all the all the he believe me. question is on the historic registry. There are no federal grants or monies that's used for the project. So there is nothing that um would is there any other questions? Well, this is just a comment. Yes, I trust what you're going to do. But the only problem is this elevation for me is how should I say it is a little bit I I can't see everything. So So over 200 drawings. Yeah. I mean we submitted the full I understand. It's just that's what we're approving. So I mean it everything looks good but you know that's you were given the cover sheet. There's over 200 drawings that were submitted that talks about all the details, all the elevations, the building sections, all the materials that was all submitted in a pack. I've got a flash drive back here of everything, but literally you got over 200 drawings. You You only got the cover sheet. I didn't print that. I don't I'm just I'm just saying. Sure. Okay.

Can I go ahead and make a motion that we pass docket number PC25011? We have a motion to approve docket number PC25011. Man Miller second. Rick Peacocks. All those in favor? I opposed. Okay, motion carries. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. July 2nd, 5:30 approved everybody to be there. Thank you. Thanks. Before I move on, I would just like to say, Commissioner Collier, um I appreciate what the county is doing in preserving the historic courthouse. It is a national landmark. Um, I'm looking forward I I might be one of the few that's like really excited about moving our office um into that building and I hope to continue Judge Williams excellent Christmas decor tradition. Absolutely. And I want to thank the board on behalf of the commissioners, but I want to encourage you and challenge you as taxpayers to keep an eye on it. This is your courthouse. This is your backyard. That's right. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. Number four under new business docket number PC25012 historic district sign approval. Address 80 West Washington Street. That's the back of the building. Uh owner is Red Trading LLC. We have a representative here on this. Yes. Uh that would be me. My name is Brandon Taylor. I am the owner of Sada Suites. It is the newest wellness spa for Martinsville. Um I believe Did you sign in there on the sheet? Yes, I will sign. Mr. Strader, do we have all the the mailings in place as well as not

publications turned in on this? Okay. Okay. Go ahead, sir. Yes. So, I'm here requesting approval for my business logo to be applied to the two window fronts of that building. There are two doors facing the parking lot and essentially what you have is the render for my logo which is the circle with the flames sauna suites and then the sweat breathe heel. You'll see on the image there's kind of a white background. That's just to show the contrast. The only part of the image is just the orange outline that's going to be applied directly onto the glass. It's vinyl. Um, and on the inside of the glass it's frosted. So, um, I'm hoping that's going to be a nice contrast between the the orange and the frosted backing. Thank you for explaining that because it it looks like it's whited out. Yeah. No, I I saved myself some money by not having the full white on the back. So, I went with that and I think it's going to be plenty for what I need it for. Did you say that this is times two? Yes, there are actually two signs. There's two identical window fronts, one on the right and one on the left. And I'm working with Signcraft out of Morsville. Um, and they're going to install it professionally as soon as I receive word by approved. When is your business slated to open? Um, mid to late July is the timing. The interior is complete. renovations have been ongoing since December. Um we have had final inspection and approval and um yeah we're just finishing up the last details. Okay. Do you have any idea of the square footage that the signs will cover and the square footage of the

building face? Um roughly these are that square is about 9 foot wide by about 9 foot high. So, I'm not covering the door or the top windows. The square footage of the building is approximately Well, I don't have the front of the building in square feet. I don't know that we have. Is it two story? It's twotory right now. I'm only leasing the first story. Yeah. First level. So, Steve, I I kind of anticipated this and I and I did the calculation two ways. Um, if [Music] the if it was a solid color, it would be well over the uh size limitation. But with it being a translucent transparent background, if we just pair it down to the size shown on that drawing, it does it does fit in with our parameters. And even though based on the ordinance, I think because it's on an alley side, not the public road, we go by the linear foot of the front instead of the square foot of the face of the building. It comes in right under that limit though. And this in the beginning uh when this was first put together the the storefront it was designed and set up for two office spaces. That's why there's two doors there. Okay. And since this young man here is uh occupying that that's where you're at with the two double doors. Okay. Any other questions? I entertain a motion on docket number

PC25012. I'll make a motion that we approve uh docket number PC25012. I'll second it. Okay, we have a motion to pass and a second. All those in favor? I opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. Welcome you to the community. Good luck. Okay, next up is uh just between our members discuss and vote on an ordinance change. Um, this is something that we talked about u that was brought up several months ago um on the mailings that go out um from the building department on people filing um the procedures and stuff. And I asked Rick to uh to go over this. So, uh, I'd like to, uh, turn the, uh, floor over to Rick Dernal and let him go over what he has, uh, got put down here. Thank you. Um, so, so Joe hit some of the background. We were, it was brought to our attention several months back, if everybody recalls, one of our petitioners, stated that um we were one of the few plan commissions that he worked with that still required certified mail. Um so I did a little research on that. Um, oh to and to go further, we were having an issue where sometimes we would get certified mail, sometimes we would get regular mail, and sometimes we get no mail. Um, so we just had questions and I think it's we all feel it's very important to just be very uniform with how we deal with each

petitioner. So did some research around um our area and Planefield still requires certified mail. Uh Bloomington, Hendricks County, Monroe County, Morsville, it's a mixed bag. Um which is one of the reasons that they use the uh affidavit of mailing uh which is notorized as part of their documentation. But a little closer to home and two that I'm that I've worked with personally, uh Morgan County and Johnson County have both followed um updated Indiana code and they have went to certificate of mailing. So um I'm not a postal worker. I'm going to butcher this, but um when you go on USPS.com, uh certified letter with the green return seat receipt and signature required comes to a total of $13.50 per mailing. A certificate of mailing is $2.20. And just to give a brief background of what that does is you take a stack of mail into the post office, they make a list of the names and addresses of where it's going and when they put the postage on it, they stamp it uh they stamp the certificate and give it to the customer when it's paid for. That way we know at that date it was placed into the postal service. So, I think personally I just think it makes sense if we require certified mail, we're asking our petitioners to pay to ensure that the postal service does their job. Um, and these are notices going out to members of the public. Yes. Okay. Yes. And then so, so that's part of it. and uh talking with um Laura Parker at

Morgan County. Um they've been doing this for several years and had not had any issues. Um she stated to me and also I think we've gotten feedback from petitioners that they send out the certified mail and a lot a surprisingly high percentage of those letters never get picked up at the post office. the post office they the postal carrier will attempt to deliver it twice and then leave a note that you can pick it up at the post office after this date they don't get picked up at least now the certificate of mailing we have to trust the post office is delivering it to that mailbox so um it I think it makes sense it'll eliminate some uh financial burden from the petitioners uh while still following IC code which unfortunately I don't have that particular code in front of me but um the second thing we wanted to clear up was the mailing to the commissioners ourselves. Um our current ordinance states that we have to be notified by mail but it specifically specifically says regular mail. I just I think usually they don't they don't read that far. So, it just goes in with certified when we get it. Um I've gotten a little bit of feedback that perhaps that's an unnecessary step. Anyhow, um it was, you know, Bob's office, uh Lisa has been emailing us the packets, uh in plenty of time, and a lot of people feel that that that serves as our notice for the meeting. Um there's just to follow up with that, you know, we're we're kind of we

try to limit improper contact and that is one area where we're handing the petitioners our names and addresses. and not that it's happened, but that does open the door for other contact via mail or in person. So, it just makes sense to have Lisa start forwarding that and that will be our notice. So, that was one thing that I took notice of u just as a comment. Uh, I get as you guys all did, you get a certified letter that you had at home. Then Lisa sent us our packet. So, we had the same thing a second time. And then when we walk in here, we've got it a third time. So, we've got the same thing three times. And the petitioners had to pay 1350 times 11 of us to send that out. So, that's just my comment. Go ahead, Rick. So, I gave everybody uh two packets uh and I want to focus on the first one, and we'll I'll be as brief as I can on this. Um I I hope that I caught each area that it pertains to, but in section 58-3, um these I just copied and pasted these into Word from our ordinances on the city website. So, anything that's being changed is crossed out in black and then there will be lettering in red either before or after that phrase showing what we want to change it to. So, most of them and the very first one we're just we're just changing certified mail return requested to a stamp certificate of mailing from the USPS. Um, next we all we and and Gary was

helpful in this. We had some discrepancies in here with our um timing. We had certain sections that say 10 days, certain sections say 15 days, some say two business days. So, in an effort to just clean things up, we'll just do this with one one fell swoop. Um we're changing 10 days to 15 days prior to the hearing here. um instead of the petitioner presenting the notices to us at the meeting, those should be turned in 7 days before. And then we have another um change from certified to stamp certificate of mailing and we're striking the section where the petitioner shall give notice to the board members by regular mail. So that covers section 58-3. Um, and one of the reasons, do I am I not correct in the uh notices shall be served at least 10 days and going to 15 days is because of the size of our building department and giving them more time. That I'm not sure of. It actually says 15 days on the um on the paperwork that's handed out with the application. Okay. So, we're just we're just trying to make it consistent. Okay. Okay. Yeah. To answer your question, Joe, uh that is correct. The statute is 10 days. Uh Martinsville traditionally, and I'm going back to the uh 90s now, we've always had 15. And that was because of the staffing and the number of folks that we have working. uh we find we need an additional 5 days in order to process all of that. So that's what we've always went with. We actually do more than the state statute, which is fine. There's no problem with that. Uh

and it works better for us. So my suggestion would be we stay with the 15 days. Okay. And then one other uh area that we wanted to clean up is at some point in the past the office of the city superintendent handled this. Um it is now the building and planning department. So uh we just we don't want to have confusion if somebody's looking at the actual ordinance. But section 94-145 subsection A we're just changing superintendent office to building and planning department. Subsection B has no changes. Subsection C again, uh, just changing the office and two business days to seven business, I'm sorry, to seven days prior to the meeting. On page two, subsection D, again, it's just the office uh, title change. Subsection E is changing from registered mail to certificate mailing. And in the public notice uh box that's in bold. Um it's also the office change. Subsection F relates to the the notice to the checkpoint agencies. There's several changes in this. One is the office again, the certified mail to certificate of mailing change. And then um we're going to strike some stuff out of here that had to do with the buffer zones. Since the buffer zones don't exist any longer, there's no need to not notify the county sheriff in line one. Over on page three, line three and line four can be stricken. And in line five, um, we can strike any other fire departments having jurisdiction. Um, subsection G, we're just going to strike altogether. We're

going to get our notice from the office itself, not from the petitioners. Subsection H is changing from or actually I'm sorry, this has to do with the affidavit, which in speaking with Mr. Coffee, uh we feel it prudent to continue to get that affidavit. It's just one one more layer. Um it's it's not terribly difficult to find a notary. I don't even know if maybe Lisa might be a notary herself. So, um we could we could check on that c certainly, but um that's just changing um requiring the return receipts to the stamp certificate of mailing changing the office name and two business days to seven days. And just one more because subsection I, J, and K remain unchanged. Subsection L, we're just changing the name of the office that it goes through. So, anybody have any questions on that? Is this something we need to Oh, we do need to vote on it. Then we we will vote on this after anybody has any questions for Rick or for Dale. Um, and we'll vote on this and then once the uh the vote has been taken, if this is approved, then this will be turned over and go to city council. Um, if it does go to city council, uh, I would ask that, uh, Rick or myself present this to city council from the plane commission. Sure. And if Rick's available, he said he would more than happy to present this to city council. Mr. Chairman, a couple of points. Uh, the the current certified mailing is is quite ownorous. It's two parcels or

660 ft. can easily be a list of more than 50 mailings. So, it can be quite expensive for them. Uh, if I heard Rick correctly this time, uh, any place that says in their city superintendent should be changed to the building department shouldn't be building and planning because it starts there and then they give it to me. So, it get turned into them. And to Mr. Burkart's comment earlier about how small things are to read and to see. They're required to turn in three fulls size sets of things. So, you can get a big set. If you need to see it, just come to Bob's office or my office. I do have a question and this is not record Dale, but it's actually do how do that notorized statement happen now? Do they bring it in notorized or do do you guys notoriize it? They are you referring to the green card that is from the post office? So it's section mailing section eight. It says the petitioner self furnace evidence of compliance of the notice requirements by filling out a notorized statement with the board of commission as is appropriate. So I was wondering how that is handled. He's talking about the last page on this handout which is the actual affidavit itself. I don't believe that's what's well this is this is what we require is that in addition to them right now bringing in their green cards, bringing in their proof of publication, they also sign this document that that Yes. And Lisa takes care of the notary that was my question. Thank you. Yes. Thank you for explaining. I I was a little bit lost. I had something else I I was going to ask. Okay. So, Rick, uh, clarify something to me. I'm a little bit confused. Okay. So,

when we talk a piece of her certified mail that they pay X amount of dollars to get and you sign for it and that type of thing. So, you're referring to something that is less cost. Correct. Yes. uh in I just want to make certain that we don't fall short or that person doesn't fall short making because we've caught a lot of slack from people that were not notified and and since Lisa has came on board with me and I spoke with the mayor and a service that we now offer is We give a list of people that is in that space two partials or the 600 ft. If it's if it's 30 properties or 50 properties we get we give who owns that property. We give that list. That's the notification. I just want to make certain that that's still in place. Yes. Yes. And that and that. So that would be a question um that I think we would have as far as procedure goes. Are we is the city providing that list of who needs to be notified? We have started that. It's in place. It's done each time now. Okay. Uh it started since Lisa has came on board. And I I will say that in my limited research that seems to be standard practice. Yes. They come in and using the GIS maps you can you can draw a boundary and it'll pull a list of all um all property owners and mailing addresses. Well, with that that way you're certain that you that person has

done their homework. Yes. And then if the petitioner does what they're supposed to do, the the certificate of mailing would have a list attached to it. Yes. That's been stamped by the post office saying this was sent to these people. That's what they would present to the building department and sign an affidavit. Correct. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So, yes. And and I should have explained the second packet that you got isn't I don't believe this is anything that we would vote on. I just printed off the application packet for if a petitioner comes into the office to get to start a petition. Um, this is the information that they're given. Um, I just went ahead and the the only two pages that would change are the front page, which is the instructions of course, and then uh so I I labeled the first one as old. That's the way it currently reads. The page after is what it would change to. And then page three is the application. Page four is the public notice that they could take to the newspaper. Page five is the old affidavit of mailing. And the last page is what that would change to. And it says in there that you would bring the stamped certificate of mailing in and attach it to that affidavit as part of it. So that would be our proof that they did take a letter to the post office on that day and it was put in the postal system. We just have to trust that it was delivered with the attached addresses. Yes. May I make one suggested tiny but I think important anywhere where it says signature of applicant can you put can we add printed name of

applicant as well because I often cannot read what is who is submitting so printed name as well as signature can we do that please on all these forms Please. I think I could probably convince Lisa to That would be great. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for doing all this. Yes. Thank you, Rick. Looks good. And so, Gary, if I heard you correct, um, where we were changing the office of the city superintendent, it should say should say building department. Building department. Okay. Not building and planning department. Building department. Okay. So that chain is feasible on this bail. Yes. or city superintendent and building or brick house building planning just say building department. Okay. And I I if we if we're able to vote on that I can change the word document and move forward. So I guess in our motion we need to put in there that um where yeah where it says building and planning department that the change needs to be made to building department and we can still vote on it and Rick can go in and change that before it goes to city council.

Well, I make a motion that we um ch we accept the new uh changes to the uh zoning and appeals procedure for notice uh with the corrections um that were asked to be put in place. Do we hear second? Mr. Burkart seconded. All those in favor? I I opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. This is something that we've uh we've heard from um petitioners. Uh I in fact whenever I had an attorney do my um land stuff, that was one of the first comments he made was the expense that was involved with the C certified mail. So, this is something I think that a lot of uh a lot of community members that are want to do something um have been held back because of the expense of the certified mailings which all went to the post office. It wasn't this isn't anything that we're cutting out of money coming into the city building department. Mr. Chairman, before we uh adjourn, I would I was wondering if we have any update on the signed ordinance uh issue that we have been before us several times in the last few months. Well, um I think that um what I could say on that is that we've got a new code enforcement officer uh with the city uh what two months. Yes, sir. So,

um, right now the the current sign ordinance is being we want to say I would say put on hold well the the we have a current place and the new code enforcement guy is in enforcing the sign ordinance that is in place as we speak. Um, I think that the sign committee, we got to a point that u, and Rick was the chairman of that, but I think I could speak for him and saying that we got to a point that it was kind of a gridlock and we wanted to just kind of step back and wait a couple of months and then reook at it later this summer. What were the What was over? There was a couple city council members that just wasn't on some of the the words. So couldn't get the wording that they wanted. So we'll reook at the status. We approved a sign or city council did not approve. Yes. So we approve we we sent it to city council with favorable recommendation and they sent it back to us to be worked on in a committee and um we we met three times on it and there was there was some spirited debate on I mean I'll just say the the timing and allowance is given for temporary

signs. That's where 95% of the debate come stems from that which a temporary sign is just that. It's temporary. It's not a permanent sign. So, we're under the current sign ordinance that says that a temporary sign is 30 days. Yes. Ironically, the current ordinance is stricter than what we were trying to move to. Yes, that is correct. So, right now, the current sign ordinance is 30 days on temporary sign. Chairman. Yes, sir. If I may just share with the members here for just a short uh about two months ago, I'm not sure if you all are aware of this, but our code portion with the city decided to retire and give it that position come available. And I don't know, I'm sure all of you know who Robert Down is. He used at one time was the former sheriff here. uh he was in New White as code enforcer and building inspector. It is wonderful. He accepted a position here. Things are working out greatly. I I want all of you to know I wish the whole board was here because it's working out tremendously. He's all over it. Thank you, Paul. So Steve, that's where we're at. We're still under the the original sign ordinance that we had. agenda that we presented to city council is on

poll and we'll we'll we'll get back to that and we'll bring it back before uh planning commission whenever we get the things worked out we need to do and send it back to city council. Any other discussions? Make a motion that we at 20 after 8. Thank you. Second. Okay. I would like to tell you all that our next meeting is Tuesday, June the 24th at 7 p.m. I will not be here. Mr. Dal will be here. He is the vice chair. He'll be running the meeting. Me and Rick have talked about this since beginning of the year. So we have made sure that our vacations are opposite of each other. So conversely, you better be here in July. Meeting is a journ from what I saw. That was from Where did the I give you I give you a paper to sign. It was the

mess. [Music] You got to take over nowhere to talk. I am good. I'm good. I'm all good. right there. [Music] How are you? Good to see you. [Music] This is my second. What do you like to do? What are you interested in? Well, that's exciting. That's really cool. What about your shirt? Nancy cars over You're a friend of 15 steaks going in. Yeah. Queen Street by 1915. There it is.

It was me. [Music] find it. Yes, sir. The gym have it. Thank you. So I think you should come if you're not forget So [Music] today he is very sung the national anthem. [Music] He was one of miracles. What was your big signature?

school years ago. [Music] [Music] Yes, correct. Not denying that. You guys understand? Okay, I understand you guys. You guys have a duty and you guys did it well. [Music] You can't have meetings like this. No, you can't. We got to use that. Keep me on the [Music] toes. We got to go. Lock up. Turn the lights off. Yes, you will. Thank you. Come to the meeting anytime your dad wants to bring you. Okay. Okay. You have a good night, too. Okay. Thanks, Mom. Have a good evening. Okay. You're welcome. trash. He does trash every

you probably haven't the battery died on the iPad for the feed. So, I have no idea how much of that meeting actually was. Well, but if we don't move the plug to the port that also charges it, then we don't Good sound. Did you need help with these cups? Is that changes? Might have been for the extra seat for somebody who wasn't here.