Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Stay present for both of us. Maybe change of plans.

Good evening everybody at 7 p.m. I'd like to call the Planning Commission for the City of Martinsville, Wednesday, May the 27th, to order. First up is roll call.

Richard Bastin. Here.

Steve Bodie. Here. Jim Burkhardt. Here.

Joe Disney.

Here.

Richard Durnall.

Present.

Caleb Forrester. Rick Keacock. Here. Ann Miller.

Present.

Jason Scott.

Here.

Troy Swan. And myself, Marilyn Snyderwitz.

Okay, we have a quorum. Has everybody had a chance to look at the minutes dated April the 28th, 2026? Do we have any thing to change? Everything look okay?

I'd like, Ann Miller would like to make a motion to approve the minutes as presented.

Ann Miller has made a motion to approve the minutes as presented. I'll second. Richter and all, seconds. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. First thing up on the agenda is old business. We have docket member PC26004, remodeled in Historic Downtown District. Owner is Jesse Logsdon. Mr. Logsdon here, would you please step up? Sign in. Could you please say your name? Jesse Logsdon. What do you have for us, sir?

Nothing. OK. I'm just waiting for the state to get back to me on some things. There's not really been anything changed. I'm just kind of waiting. I'm up in limbo right now. I know you guys want to see a picture of the outside. Kind of got other stuff I'm waiting on still, so it's not pressing. But other than that, I mean, ready to go whenever you guys say go. Well, we have to see a picture of the color.

Yeah, we've got to see the outside.

Nothing's going to structurally change at all, but yeah, you just want to see a picture of the colors.

We want to see what the walls, the windows, anything that you're going to do to the front of the building, that's what we'll want to see.

But other than that, I'm just going through the whole motions with the state, and that's it. Okay. Thank you.

Excuse me. You're going through what motions with the state?

I don't know. He's dealing with the state on, like, fire safety and making sure my exits and making sure I don't have a sprinkler system and stuff like that. He's going on the whole point system.

I don't quite understand all of it. So you're probably applying for a building permit from the state? Yeah, I assume so.

I have not applied for that yet. He's dealing with all that stuff as far as I know. But I haven't, this is the last email I got which was on May 26th. And that was the last time I heard from him saying that he had got the point system figured out for the fire safety stuff with the egress windows and

Before you step back, plan commission, do we have any advice for this petitioner about why he needs to be in front of the plan commission and what we need? Because it's probably a little bit confusing. Yeah, I have.

other than mr schrader can you speak on that i believe you the board here requested mr loxton to provide you what he was going to do to the outside of the building which i don't have yet but it's it's not changing any the whole building's not changing it's just going to have new windows yeah but

I can get you a picture of what it's going to look like, yeah.

Well, let me help then. We need to know the size of the windows, what windows you plan to purchase, that kind of information. Color, if you're going to paint or do something to the exterior. Definitely need some, yeah. There's just so much to purchase.

more important stuff going on on the inside.

Structurally, you know what I mean? Made the building sound again. And for your benefit, this group, the Planning Commission, has a responsibility for properties that are in the downtown historic district, which yours is part of. And we have a responsibility to know what it's going to look like. Absolutely. What do you plan on? So you need to let us know that so that we can advise and approve or not.

I hadn't heard anything back from him, and I just kind of just been waiting. At the moment, I've got other projects. I've just kind of been waiting on this. OK. But I will get the paper. When's the next meeting?

Well, I'm not so sure that this petition can continue. It almost needs to be retired and then kind of start over. I need somebody else's comments about that.

Mr. Burkhart?

No, I was just going to say, this is the same time we tabled him up. So I'm asking Mr. Coffey, can we give him an extension?

This might actually be the third time. I'm not sure, but it may actually be the third time. And we're supposed to take action within 90 days. Yeah, I didn't know that.

Yeah, I didn't know. But whatever I got to do to make it right, I'm okay with.

I might suggest that we retire this tonight, have Mr. Lockster reapply when he has his information back from the state so we can get him back on a docket when we're ready to go forward.

Yeah, I think that's a good idea. So we'll retire this tonight and then when you get your information from the state, then come back and get with Mr. Strader's office and reapply so that that way we have all the information so that we can move forward and get you going on the building. I like it. Thank you. Okay. That's it.

Thank you.

Thank you. So we don't need to have any vote on this. We're just going to retire this. Docket number PC26004. And then Mr. Logsdon will...

Is that an official thing that we can do? I mean, don't we have to either? You've got to take action on it.

We need a motion. He's not ready to move forward. So, yeah, we don't need a motion. It'll just be withdrawn, and he'll reapply when he has all his plans ready to move forward. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Lawson.

Okay, so docket number PC26004 for Jesse Logsdon will be retired. And when Mr. Logsdon has the information that he needs for the planning commission and gets all of his stuff with the state, then he can reapply for the building that he has in the historic downtown district at 65 West Morgan Street. Next up under New Business, docket number PC26011 is a rezone from R1 to Industrial 3. The address is West Adam Brick Avenue, lots 9 through 13. The owner is DeRosset Properties, LLC. Is there somebody here from DeRosset Properties? Would you please step up, sir? If you would, please sign in, and then state your name.

Name's David Rawson.

Okay, what do you want to do Mr. DeRosa?

I'd like to have this zoning put back where it belonged at on the map. It was on 2002 and before. Somebody chose to rezone it without sending out notifications to me and my wife that they were doing it. They just didn't want themselves to do it. I'd like for it to be put back like it should be.

Now Commissioners, what we're going to do here is this is something that when we have a motion on this, this is something that we will send to City Council. So that you're aware of that when you make your motion. So what Mr. DeRosa wants to do is put the zoning back to I-3 from R1.

Sir, can I say something? Sure. When you say I-3, on that zoning map that I had, it indicates that it was a 13 high industry zoning. What's the difference between I-3 and 13 high industry?

I don't believe there is a 13. There's an industrial 3. Industrial 3.

I think we're talking about terminology that's from 2002 versus today. Okay. 24 years later.

So I'm correct in saying what I'm saying without showing this to you?

Yes, you don't have to. I mean, our current zoning code has three different categories for industrial. I-1, I-2, I-3. I-3 is the heaviest use. Okay.

I just know how that map read it that I have a copy of and it showed that it was 13 high industry. So I assume it was probably the best zoning you can have for a business or whatever.

Mr. DeRosa, when was it changed did you say?

Well ma'am, I'm not sure of that because I just took notice of it here about a year, year and a half ago whenever I put it up for sale. And I had done some inquiring about maybe building on the blocks and they told me I couldn't because they were too small because of some zoning changes. And at that point right there, I've done a little bit more questioning and found out that it had been changed to residential. And I asked some questions and If I remember this correctly, the city attorney, I asked him and he looked into it and said to the best of his knowledge there had not been any notifications sent out to me or my family about these changes that were, that took place.

How long have you owned the property, Mr. DeRozan?

It's been in my family since in the 90s. Good long time. Yes, sir.

And to your knowledge, you're saying you weren't aware of any change in the zoning since some of the piece of paper you had?

That was originally, my father-in-law had owned it, and it was originally part of that brickyard that used to be up there because he's the one that passed it down to us, or his wife did.

Mr. Durnall, do you have any background on this property?

I do not.

I drove past the property last night and noticed there were no signs or anything to indicate that you wanted to do this, to do the re-zoning.

I did know that I had to put signs up or I wouldn't have. That's something that I knew.

Oh, okay, okay, gotcha.

I tried to do everything that was in this paperwork. Believe it or not, I did.

Right, right.

Mr. Coffey, is it possible when City of Martinsville entered zoning and sent the big ordinance in November 19, 2001, that they may have changed that zoning?

Well, Mr. Burkhart, I don't know if it's possible. I suppose anything's possible. Really, what the board has before the night is a request for rezoning. It's not up to you to decide what happened 20-some years ago. It's not up to you to guess what happened. When current zoning is R1, the applicant's before you tonight asking to consider rezoning, asking you to recommend the City Council be rezoned from R1 to I3. And that's what you have to consider based upon what you believe the highest and best use is, based upon what your comprehensive plan is. Those are what's before you tonight.

The I-3, which you've requested, it be rezoned to, you're using language that says put it back to what it was. It is currently R-1, single family homes.

I thought it was R-2, I'm sorry.

Yeah, but no, you wrote down R-1 on the application. It's zoned to R-1. If I remember correctly, Gary always told me that. I-3 is heavy industrial, hazardous materials, requires five foot fencing, significant buffer from non-industrial uses, uses that are not confined to the interior of the building that might be on that site. If you chose to put a building, its use is for hazardous materials. It's recognized that pollution, air, noise, pollution, would typically happen in I-3. It allows unlimited outside storage, unlimited hours of operation, and it should be There should be a buffer between I-3 zoning, heavy industrial, and other uses like single-family homes, which are neighboring properties. So this is a hard request for us to say, following our rules, that we should make it I-3 zoning. And the properties to the east north and south are all zoned Residential 1, which is single family. This is the farthest from Residential 1 you could possibly be. And our code asks us as a commission to buffer between. But it's a hardship because the transfer station is right there, as you well know. There's an active railroad next to it. So I'd love to hear from other people.

Well, I think you were quoting from Ordinance 94-16, Section G, Subsection 3, the general definition of I-3 heavy industrial. Yes. Just three sentences down, Section D is the restrictions, and it starts off by saying industrial three is five acres. That's where I'm having a little difficulty understanding the purpose because using the legal descriptions, I'm coming up with 0.696 total acres of the five parcels combined. Less than one acre combined. when the ordinance very clearly requires a minimum of five acres for industrial-free use.

Was that rule that you're reading now, did that apply back when it was changed without notifying me? I know that whenever I asked to do something up there, I was given instructions that I need to notify people. And I asked the city attorney about it. And so I did my due diligence, or however you want to say that, to try to do the right thing. All I'm asking is just put it back where it was.

Well, and I think what Mr. Durnall is trying to say is that we can't go by 2002 standards what you're wanting to do is 2026 and in what he just read there for 2026 an i3 minimum of five acres so we can't go backwards but we can look at your request for r1 to i3 And the minimum of five acres isn't met.

But at the time they changed it, was that rule into effect where they could change it without notifying people, I guess.

And that's not up to us. What we have before us is tonight, 2026. And it's what's in place now.

If they hadn't changed it, I wouldn't be standing here, sir.

What do you intend to do with the property?

I'm sorry? What is your intention? How are you going to use it? I have no intentions of anything at this point in time. I plan on doing some clearing of trees that's on there, which I've already done some mulching and clearing up there so I can see what's there. And at this point, I don't know. I mean, that's telling me the truth. I mean, if something happens to me, I'm 78 years old. If something happens to me, I don't know what my family would do. you'd like to straighten out so that it's not a question before i say that i want everything kind of action like it wasn't an order before something else do we have any other questions for mr dross thank you mr garasa are there any bonus traders here on this property

Would you please come forward? Just like I asked Mr. DeRosa, you need to sign in and then state your name.

Robin Parker.

Would you pull that mic down a little bit so we can?

Robin Parker.

Her name's Robin Parker. Okay, go ahead.

Sorry, I'm just a little nervous. I don't talk in front of people, so I'm a little nervous. My family's lived in that neighborhood since 1962. Okay. I live on the corner of Westbrook Adams and Woodblock Road, and I prefer not to have that zone to industrial one because I don't want the hazardous, the possibility of hazardous chemicals in the neighborhood. You know, with Martin's book, we've had lots of things in the water in the past and it's taken years to get that cleaned up. I don't want something like that to happen again. I'd like to sit out on my porch in my porch swing and not have to worry about the dust of whatever else is going on. I don't want to have to worry about any more pollution. So I hope that you take the neighborhood itself into consideration when you make this really This is nothing personal against Mr. DeBrasa. He's a great guy. I've known him for a long time. It has nothing to do with him personally. It's just I don't want that for our neighborhood.

Okay.

So that's all. Any questions?

Thank you.

Thanks.

You did wonderful. You're very well spoken. Thank you.

Thank you.

Is there anybody else that would like to speak on this? Okay.

Is there any other industrial...

I don't think that's up to us.

I mean, I didn't know that was an option for you.

Anything is an option for him to explore what uses, what zoning he would like for that. I'm going to have a problem zoning at the heaviest industrial use on top of single-family homes, although on the other side of them is the transfer station. which is open and pretty heavy use. But our code that I'm looking at seems pretty straightforward, pretty clear. So I don't know what he could use that property for. I don't know. But that's up to Mr. Crossett to investigate what his options are, what it could be zoned for. If he's going to put houses there, you don't want I-3. It doesn't seem like we can approve I-3 because of the things I read and Rick read. I don't know if I-1 is acceptable. And we can't advise him on what he should or shouldn't do, I don't think.

Any more conversation on this?

I will just point out.

Go ahead.

I always consult the comprehensive plans. That's what we're supposed to do. And looking at the updated 2022 comprehensive plan, page 43 is future land use. And I'll just point out, it falls smack dab in the middle of something, and it's actually white, which is not indicated what it should be. I just, I don't know if anybody else looked at that and wondered, but. I did, and it's bordered by what? White industrial.

Yeah. And light industrial has meaning to it. It talks about life sciences and other purposes. And even that bordering currently R1 might be a stretch.

Whenever I first started this project, I went and talked to Gary Oakes about building permit to be able to do maybe four or five houses in there. And he said based on your present code, he said I couldn't do that because the lots were too small. That's when I found out what they've changed up to. I'm just asking what's fair and hope that you guys see what's fair is to put it back where it was. Because if they hadn't changed it, it would have still been that zoning today. Yeah.

unfortunately we can't advise you on that. I understand that. And it almost makes me wonder after what Mr. Grinnell read there on the I-3 high industrial having a minimum of five acres and if that doesn't have five acres does that have something to do with what they've done? I don't know. I mean there's.

I don't either. I wish I did.

Yeah and I'm sorry we can't It'll probably have to take you more homework to go back and find out what happened. And there may be people that might remember what happened, but maybe they don't. I don't know. I don't know how to advise you on that.

Based on what I've been told by private individuals, and I'll just not be naming names, They said that some of the administrations before destroyed records of a lot of things that took place in Martinville. And whenever I finally found this map that I have, at that point in time, it was the only one that was still out there that some people were aware of. Because the original one was drawn from downstairs.

Yeah and then I have the knowledge of it. So I understand that.

All I'm doing is just asking to put it back where it was before all this took place. And as far as knowing what I'm gonna do with it, I have no idea. I may put it up for sale depends on what my wife tells me. Because I'm tired of paying taxes on something that I can't use. Right.

And you've got to make your wife happy. That's right. You've lived a long life because you've made your wife happy. That's right. Okay. Do you have anything else further, Mr. Grosset? No, sir. Thank you. Any more conversation, commissioners? I'd entertain a motion on this.

I will make a motion that we, the Planning Commission recommend denial of PC26011, a request to rezone five parcels from R1 to I3.

I second that.

So Steve Bodie made a motion that we deny to City Council the change and Ann Miller made a second.

Thank you.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Aye. Rich Bastin is opposed. So Mr. Drosset. Mr. Drosset. What we have done is we have denied to send a favorable recommendation to the city council. Now, you can go ahead and take that to city council, even though we've denied it.

Correct me if I'm wrong? That's correct.

So you can go ahead and take that to city council, even though we denied it.

Can you tell me what you expect out of me to do that? What's expected of me to do that?

Just, just what you've got right here. You can go ahead and apply.

I need to contact Mack Porter at the City Administrator. Ask him to uh, when you might be able to get on the agenda for the City Council meeting.

And then you go ahead and present this to city council, and what will go along with that is that we denied this to send a favorable recommendation.

We recommended not be rezoned, but you can go in front of the city council. We recommend to the council they decide zoning. So the city council will vote on this. and they have our information from tonight, but you can present, and if you can convince them to change the zoning to something other than what it is, they would grant that.

Well, the only thing I'm looking back at is there was a couple different times whenever I had the opportunity to sell a property, the Harvey problem was one of them. He said he didn't want it because, uh, don't. But I understand that. So, uh, did I expect something different here? Probably not. But I was hoping you guys would do the right thing and put it back where it belongs because that is the right thing to do.

Okay. Understood. Thank you, Mr. Grosso. Okay, we're done with our agenda. Does anybody have anything you'd like to discuss this evening?

I believe Mr. Wood here. Mr. Wood, do you want to come and speak? We get asked to, I don't know.

State your name. Go ahead and sign in and state your name. We have nothing on the agenda.

Randy Wood is my name.

Okay.

I'm not sure I'm at the right place at the right time. I thought some other things were taking place this evening to include what you folks just did. But since you represent the city, I think I need to inform you of some of the things that take place under your jurisdiction that you ought to be aware of.

Does it have something to do with planning?

It has something to do with the rehab center, recovery center.

We don't have anything on the agenda for the recovery center.

It's within your jurisdiction, is that correct?

We're just a planning commission.

So why shouldn't we be presenting anything here?

It might be something that you need to go and talk to city council on.

I was given the impression that after your meeting was over, then there would be that kind of discussion.

We have discussion on plan commission on property, buildings, new business.

I will check with the mayor's office.

City Council was last night. The next City Council meeting is in two weeks on a Monday night.

Two weeks on a Monday night at 7 p.m. If you have any interest in what you think I might be going to say, say so and I'll tell you. Otherwise, I'll just leave.

Yeah, if it doesn't have anything to do with plan commission, we have no, as you said, jurisdiction. We don't have no jurisdiction. Okay.

Bad wording. June the 8th.

June the 8th.

June the 8th is the next city council meeting. Okay.

This isn't right.

Okay, well, thank you, sir.

All right, thank you.

Okay, is there any other conversation that anybody would like to have? Mr. Schrader, do we have anything coming up that we need to be aware of? Okay. Well, if that's the case, then I'd like to have a motion for...

I'll make a motion that we adjourn.

Rigder and all made a motion that we adjourn.

Second. Second.

Ann Miller makes a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Next regular session meeting for the Planning Commission of the City of Martinsville is Tuesday, June the 23rd at 7 p.m. Meeting adjourned.

The minutes end.