City Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Call this meeting of the market city planning commission order is Tuesday October 7th at 6 pm. We'll begin with roll call at the end us here. Margaret Rainer here

Steve Lori here and Kevin Fle is here. Um, we have a item to add to our agenda. Is that fair? Um, no. Um, Alice is going to make public comment.

Oh, let that be as long as you wanted to. I thought you might add it into reports, but uh, we could if you'd rather do it that way. Um well, correspondence reports under six. You want to add an item? Um sure. That way from Alex to add the report to our agenda. Make a motion to add that. Second iter.

All right. Motion on the floor. All in favor say I. I. I. All post same sign. Motion passes.

All right. Um approved minutes. So we have some uh changes we need to make for our minutes. Clarifications. Um D has provided some content to me. Does anybody else have anything that they noticed was not right or what should be different? Um, I tried to look at one of them and I I just think that it'll add that on page 12 there. I have two inaudible uh notes. The first one I was probably trailing off, but it happened to be dependent of what I was trying to say. The second one um was in regards to how the property was previously zoned. If we hadn't rezone it to mis use in 2019 as a blanket, it would have been allowed an acceptable use in thatition. There were two sections for pres as well. I think the first one just dealt with speaking of the trailer that there was additional storage because people had outside storage and um the second um I was thinking about the businesses that directly bought the shares property the North side right up to the pits. There's just a bit separated the warehouse

construction company. [Music] [Music] Does anyone else have any changes to the minutes? All right. Can we get a motion to approve uh minutes as change? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as amended. We have a second.

All right. Motion on the floor. Uh all those in favor say I.

All same sign. Motion passes. All right. No problem. No conflicts of interest. U no public hearings. Any citizens wishing to address the commission on agenda items? All right. Moving on. We have no old business, no new business. Saving decisions wishing to address the commission on nonaggenda item. All right. uh correspondence reports minutes of other boards. Uh you'll come to the podium and give us your report.

Hi everybody. My name is Alex Veronus. I I guess we'll just give you this short uh brief overview of what my project was about and if you guys have any questions I can answer them or just get more specific. Um but I live at 522 High Street. Uh I'm a senior at NU and I'm just here to present about some research that I conducted last semester um in Dr. Sarah Middlefelt's uh human environment capstone course which some of you might know she was the previous chair of this commission. Um and with Sarah's help I studied traffic safety for pedestrians and cyclists on a section of Prescy Avenue near campus. uh specifically the area from Walwood Street to Norwood Street, which is kind of like the area just right in front of the Superior Dome. Um uh both the city and NU have really tried to promote walking and biking as you probably know. Um and access to campus in this area makes Prescal Avenue critical in those efforts. Uh, according to ENM's master plan, the university sees the future of Prescal Avenue as a pedestrian ccentric entertainment corridor with new facilities and mixeduse developments such as the apartments that are being built right now at the intersection of Fair Avenue. Um, but the results of my research demonstrate that traffic and infrastructure conditions on Prescal Avenue does not make people walking and biking feel safe. And this is despite the street being reconstructed just a few years ago. I know some of this may be outside of the scope of the planning commission and a little too technical, but I still think it's important for the long-term planning of this area. Um, so pretty much over two weeks in late March this past year, I stood out on the street uh in the cold and the wind and just kind of watched how people acted as they were walking and biking and crossing the street. Uh, and I also talked to over 30 people um about how comfortable they felt when they were walking and crossing the street. Um, but

overall people did not feel crossing the street was safe and they had an unusually hard time doing so mainly because drivers in this area do not pay attention to people waiting to cross whether they are waiting on the sidewalk or already stepped out into the crosswalk. Um, and a lot of drivers also ignore basic traffic laws. um meaning regularly running stop signs at center and summer streets which is where a lot of students cross to get to the PE and athletic complex. Um and many people I talked to felt that they have to rush across the street because drivers simply could not yield to them. Um and several even recall times when their friends had been hit by cars while walking or biking in this area. I also surveyed some businesses on the street and they also felt that making Prescal Avenue safer would be better for their customers and overall sales. Um, again, I don't want to get into the weeds too much, but uh, when I talked with local law enforcement and city engineers, it was clear that the actual street design may contribute to speeding and unsafe conditions for people walking and biking. Pres Skyle Avenue is wider than most streets in Marquette. And the few street signs in this area may alert drivers that people can be out walking and biking, but there's really no mechanism forcing drivers to stop for people that are actually crossing the street. Um, and considering an unused long-term development plan is in this area, Prescal Avenue could be a bustling hightra corridor in the future. In its current form, however, the street fails to make pedestrians and cyclists feel safe and it is not ready to serve a university entertainment district. I ask that the planning commission consider these implications and prioritize non-motorized transportation, aka pedestians and cyclists while planning this corridor. I learned so so much just by talking with strangers uh and people on the street and making their perceptions feel heard. Um, and I hope the plan commission receive this

information as well. Thank you very much. I'd like to discuss first of all um I had great civil engineering with traffic transportation. So I I think it was a very well done for basically all of the aspects of the traffic should look at lot of detail besides traffic and u maybe more formal study would use a little different procedures but I think captured pretty well. I did raise the same issue a couple meetings ago about more affordable traffic at least some improvements to housing units at the increase traffic crossing street I um I didn't get 100% through the report. I think you're probably at 100%. But um I would say that what I think from it is that the bigger problem is traffic or driver, excuse me, driver behavior to a lesser degree. Pedestrian behavior maybe. Um, I don't dispute the fact that

there's some infrastructure changes that would certainly help with safety out there, but the main problem is speeding, distracted drivers, failure to stop, failure to yield, uh, and trying to get under the influence based on your review of all the traffic accident reports. And, uh, that gets a little harder to change. But I think too often um governments try to focus on changing the environment instead of changing people's behavior and you don't always accomplish your goal if you don't change people's behavior. changes and so I I'd like to uh commit the report but I also say that I think we need to focus in a different direction reach that conclusion further on in the report but um if the street is evolving it's changing you know right now but I grew up in that neighborhood that that stretch Prescy was my paper route for probably four or five years. So I've crossed the bin many times and um back then I don't doubt that traffic counts were actually higher than they are today. Um we had the power plant as a major player in the north county railroad shops shops as well as tour were out there. There were two working sawmills north of Holly Street, the Clif Chemical Company. There were two grocery stores and a couple of party stores and a few other businesses along

that northwest aisle. It generated a lot of traffic. Um I I know I'm can't go back that far with the studies and such but um I think the police department might still have it interesting basically to compare uh because guess as you noted in your report the even going back into the 60s um that street was in fairly disrepair um as far as payments. curves and sidewalks. So, it does it took a long time to get it rebuilt 2019 construction out of that. Um there was one other loss right now but it was um there are you know even some of the changes that we're making actually I think have maybe increased the let's say conditions out there roundabout particularly at that at fair breast style actually I think encourages speeding cars that can go all the way through there without having to stop at that intersection do so faster makes it a little harder to cross and it also um eliminates gaps the traffic that would otherwise probably generally That's know one of the people that cars exiting

from the side streets that uh often times don't stop at the stop signs. Those streets traditionally were not stop streets. They were yield there were yield signs there probably up into the 80s some of those streets in particular as well so I I don't think it's people remember that go through anyway but changes in in traffic control do have to meet certain traffic warrants before they're installed. The words are for the most part developed by American Association State Highway officials. Most governments adopt those. They have to have they have to meet certain words just like before we resolve something or approve that has to meet certain words. they have to have that document in the file in order to change a new sign to a stop sign or put a a flasher head or whatever there. And I'm a little bit um guess the words were there to install overhead flashes at one point crosswalk at some speed conditions changed the point that it no longer spar had to be removed construction was Northern's wildat way he proposed industry and not really familiar with northern's master plan very much but uh baffles the

ad center over summon street because summon street was enhanced with the pie were put there centered that was the main entrance to them. Um, it has sidewalks that people go all the way up to the building, I think. um at the other end of it and not that it's a lot of difference in space but I believe some city has a 66 footway all the way through but I think C street is a couple feet narrow about 64 so we've had a little bit of discussion here to think about how develop that way may require believe we're taking some of those properties there. And there's a toss up there, but there are still quite a few private residences on C Street or occupied. Um, some of them are are good with some students and others. Summit Street also has a few private reserve. So if we have an influence on future impact some of these future by you should make sure that

you comments. Thank you for your report. I think it was very thorough. I'm imagining that pedestrian traffic has not over [Music]

um quick question. Do you have any recommendations for how to improve safety? Um as well [Music]

I think First and foremost, there should probably be more um just kind of like I know this this the flashing crossing sign they mentioned this on the street. Um I think when I was talking to um city engineer and um I know the city is doing right now like an active transportation planning study right now and I met a couple engineers with that firm at Black Rocks over the summer and talked to them about this project. Um and they mentioned uh specifically uh it's called a hawk signal which is pretty much I think it call stands for activated crosswalk.

Yeah. So it's pretty much the same thing as just a normal crosswalk except when you approach the crosswalk there's a button that you can press and it starts flashing a stop like a red stop. They have a large arm that comes up over the road. It's real high. They're usually pretty high above the roadway and it's come up over the road so drivers cannot. [Music]

I think as best you can do to make um people standing at the street waiting to cross more visible because just driving down that street um it's it's pretty wide. So when you're driving down this street and it's open and there's no like um there's a light at right street and there's there's a roundabout at avenue. There's nothing in between that. So you're just going down like a bike pretty much. Um so it just invites people to drive faster and drive more safe. You don't see the people that are waiting on the side of the street waiting to cross like in the crosswalk. You don't really notice that. And the law says you have to notice when we're using the crosswalk. Um, but just like, you know, that kind of the the mentality of driving like on a on a a street like that, it's like you're not really going to stop with someone just so like one person across the street when there's like a line of cars behind you. So, I think as much as you as I hate to say like forcing people to do the right thing, but that's sometimes what's needed. Um, and yeah, I think uh off of that like the crossing distance again is just really far. So like crossing I think it's like 60 or 70 feet across the street which takes about 14 15 seconds I think is what I timed it. So I mean that's you got and you know there's a lane of traffic going this way, a lane of traffic going that way and there's also a turn. So you pretty much have to travel across three almost four lanes of traffic including the shoulder and the left lane. So I mean especially with students going back and forth um and just the scope of what Northern plans to do with this area I think is very much um not in line with what the street

looks like right now. So, I think whatever we can do to um kind of slow traffic down, make it easier for people across the street. Thank you. Um I don't notice I don't know if I know of any bumps in the city. Do we use those at all? Is there a reason why we don't use those? Is that something that could influence the speed that people use on

the city doesn't like a lot of things we don't do because [Music] I also noticed just standing out there for this project, there's a lot of heavy trucks that travel on that street. So, I mean, I don't know how how well it would work to, but I mean, I love to see speeds personally, but I don't know if that would be like the best thing for just managing traffic well on that street in general. I also want to note that I saw every single cyclist that I saw on that street was riding on the sidewalk and it was in winter. It was in late March, but for most of the time that I was out there, there wasn't any snow in the street. So, the bike lane at least, you know, there's only one bike lane on that street. It's going in the north direction. Um, but regardless, people didn't want to use it. Um, that may be because they didn't feel unsafe. that maybe just because they want to ride on the sidewalk and that's their personal choice, but it's something to know that it's definitely a lot in that area to get pedest [Music]

I think they could move the oil from the mix or where the mobile center is to that overhead. I think it's Yeah, it's probably not real. the fact that they they just built on the last university to

they definitely have a better I do believe they're looking at putting in some new rapid because um after this it's there's going to be more done to promote pedestrian safety. I know that's that there's going to be enhance crosswalks and they're talking about violence. I don't know exactly where. I'm not from heard that. And it's uh our city engineering office of course has been coordinating with a new on street construction items that they're going to be doing there. And I've been trying to um this this summer I talked with the facilities manager at NU about they had put irrigation line under I don't know if they done it yet they had to get a license from the city as having a meeting about that way this fall city engineer about some of the practicalities of trying to make that happen and we agreed that we should start some kind of conversation with him about it. He said sure. I had sent him a couple reminders about it calendar. Yeah, that was a good that reinforces a lot of what we hear about the cities the fact that winter conditions are really hard for people that it's true in just about everywhere afterwards right after a snowstorm but

you know in some places it's just it shouldn't be the place it's so hard get And I think part of that I think obviously my project was not very representative of um the true number of people out there watching because it was done in March. So I think if you're doing this project in July or August get much more magnified results. I don't think I don't think people's opinion much and I also want to say that I met this one person who was so pretty much when I was out there I asked people to rate um like how safe they felt when they're crossing the street on a scale of 1 to 10 like one being unsafe really unsafe 10 being they felt really comfortable no problems and I met an older man who lives like at the corner of Norwood and so kind of like in that area and he was live here his entire life. He was six. I years old and he was the only person to give me a one. He said he blocks that street every single day, three times a day. And people, it's just like not that's not fun to cross. It's not fun to walk on like shovel the sidewalks and other businesses through the city does that. That's just like not a pleasant experience. So, I just wanted to give a shout out and I just mentioned something about that. You said it takes 14 seconds to cross whatever the figure was. That's you very young man. 75y old is probably not going to be able to cross that in 14 seconds. And a lot of people need a lot more time than that. And that's streets are designed to kind

of be or when you have traffic controls, they're designed to accommodate the user kind of in the middle of that. And when MDOT reconstructed that section of South Front Street a few years ago, the South Market entrance to Gen. We asked them if they can put a hawk signal at that intersection because, you know, we have a lot of people that are afraid to cross. I've heard from a lot of people are afraid to cross that street. I'm not talking about old people necessarily either. Um just because people are not necessarily paying good attention anymore when they drive. And um some close calls there that should never have happened. Um but uh I don't think MDOT can seriously look at getting a warrant or going through the process unfortunately and I know one thing is those hot signals are probably the most expensive control device out there and people don't get this but traffic signals cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just one signal. So save money on a project that's maybe hopefully there'll be a lot better um crossing devices or zone when when the project by the time the project's [Music]

Thank you for the opportunity for hearing this report discussion for us.

All right, moving on. uh training or community green articles, short little articles and photograph from American Training Association. Anyone have any comments on that? I thought it was an interesting uh cross-section of all the opportunities to educate people through artwork and to connect with people where they're at. All right. Um we have uh no session reports plans or ordinances. Um none staff comments. Um, thank you for presenting your Alex and um, thanks everybody for making sure that the public hearing uh, comments were accurately Um nice soft

just to say thank you for your recordings. intend to do that. [Music] A lot of girls, [Music] we will not be having a meeting. And I have no comment. Uh this is meeting at 6:31.