City Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

all right I'd like to call this meeting of the Marquette City Planning Commission to go to order is Tuesday March 4th at 602m we'll start with roll call Wayne if you'd like to start us out way here Steve here and Kevin C is here um is there a motion to approve the agenda as presented also all right motion on the floor um all those in favor say I all those opposed all right motion carries um anybody take a look at the minutes uh we approve those by consensus any additions all right um we're well seeing no um changes well any conflicts of interest today all right we'll move on to our first order of business no public hearings today are there any citizens wishing to address the commission on agenda items right see none we'll move on we've got old no old business and number four new business uh we're looking at election of officers so so we need nominations for chair and vice chair for chair and vice chair let me let me say that Sarah melt current chair absent um said that she was she would be glad to serve uh continue to serve as chair

if the board wants her to continue or she's f with somebody else being the chair she's got one more year on her ter um she said she either way is BU so for what that's worth consideration when nominat s you can not here she'll be fine with it so do I need to I nominate Sarah chair unless somebody else wants to do it I don't all right um then we take a vote on that any other nominations I'm just telling you what Robert says right seeing none we'll vote on Sarah Noel as our chair all those in favor say I I I all those opposed all right motion carries um Sarah continuing as our chair um for vice chair Nate all right are there there a motion are there any other nominations other nominations other nominations good there we go all right um those in favor of commiss C as Vice Chair say I I I all those opposed motion carries

congratulations um and third we need a uh representative to the board of zoning appeals currently I am serving respons Andrea is the so the board Z FS is different than Planning Commission you're going to review it's more of a quasi judicial board you know plan little bit more administrative you know but you do review things that go on to City commission the BCA you're reviewing variances Class A requests expansions of a Class A um interpretations may come to to the board so these are items that are legal per se right like you're really looking at the code and what the code says and it does this proposal meet all the items in the code so it's very formal in that respect um but I mean can tell you how we felt about serving uh I think it's a little bit more fine detailed than this and the way that you go through things needs to code or it is not there's a lot less room for interpretation in what we see so um I'm not I wouldn't be like when you do make decisions don't be afraid of the like quadal nature of it you guys have some pretty well attended meetings um in the past but it all has been interesting [Music] and and that if we have a meeting so we only have a meeting when we have item

submitted it'll be the first Thursday month we we made the code so good that they hardly have any reason for variances anymore I mean really the number of variances has dropped dramtically we I used to get over 20 A year had process so this the BC representative is a requirement by Statute that there is a representative um to basically facilitate communic communication between the plan commission and the BS and that works fairly Wells is a good thing and it is like Andrew said it's all qu judicial you have those are all judicial cases they're all subject we're in court right now zoning decision and that's fine it's different um but if decisions are made according to um good practices that we preach and try to teach you um we're not going to l in court things things won't usually get to that we haven't had oneis I need that's

commissioner I would like to nominate commissioner for the commission is there a second it's quite enting especially at while are there any other nominations any other all right um all those in favor of Dallas better are new representative to the board of zoning appeals say hi all post same sign motion carries thank you all right um next item of business that's completes our election of officers um plan commission bylaws potential updates everybody have a chance to review our bylaws any updates or things that are standing haven't updated bylaw four years and most of the most of the bylaws that have were updated last time were just clar corrections but I think we did update the BW to say that the elction of officers would occur in March so that the we would have a fully any it it was February before it was presented some issues because

the the new appointees or all the terms end in so now better that so everybody's in their term by the time we officers just a question for sta is there any reason this needs to change as of our to have decisions um well say that again bylaws we we reduced the scope of projects is there any place did you see anything um that's a good point I'm not sure that there is the only thing I thought maybe uh could s be updated was the agenda or because now we we do have a different order you look at the our agenda for today it's a little different than what's presented in here under item G2 um we have conflict of interest was something added about the time ad we do have a regular item on here for training although we don't always have some

I didn't see that it's um are we still doing the reserving of time for um future comment in here or may request to speak later that's basically people can reserve can come up and say I want to speak on this issue you address it or they can address their comments okay right when they go up so i' say as far as the order goes here for the agenda only thing to change training item after correspondence sure leave this uh call for projects to come we changed that oh yeah but I didn't mark when I was thought this still reflected that they yeah does say that proced

so addition training and the procedure so you have training is under item G2 training procedes I just says the first so one SE changing it appliations business prior to meeting are there any other updates that anybody saw all right right make a motion

to changes we have a second commissioner second all those in favor say I I I all those oppos same sign motion carries all right um now we're moving on to number five citizens wishing to address the commission on non agenda it are there anybody audience speak all right seeing none we'll move on to correspondence reports and minutes we received some correspondence regarding the county climate action plan you want to take this yeah so uh as I send an email the actual draft it's a draft action plan um we will put this back on the agenda at the next meeting and any comments that have been gathered by you you can send your comments to me or to Sarah um we'll uh discuss those at the next meeting and then we'll pass those on to the County planning office it's a really good effort that put forward with this and know they have a new County Administrator and hopefully the new County Administrator is going to be supportive of this kind of thing Scott Irish was he's a very diligent champion of us addressing climate adaptation and litigation all right thank you we'll

look forward to comments our next evening um moving on uh there are no trainings this evening we get into our work session on updates of the Land Development code and Amendment okay the first item is kind of adding the word boing panel into our facility you guys have any issues with that were we having problems with um what's the reason for the because we didn't have a wording panel okay veterinary clinics actually patients over as well Rec they not they're not boarding they're there as a [Music] second yeah if they were doing the the pet boarding where it's not related to their use like it's a separate so under the definition Veterinary Clinic below it says that CL includes custom or cages structure includ overnight

fac we could amend that say just that all right one at one of our previous meetings we talked about whether planing commission wanted to add the heavy vehicle equipment s rental display use planing commission yes um stated you know own districts you'd like to see and we added some use requirements one of the questions that Steve asked about the state require sign off from from the city for this and I only reviewed and saw something for vehicle dealers or S campers trailers so that won't be for this so in the previous meeting uh plan wanted to see this as a permitted use in The General commercial Regional commercial and Industrial and then I CED in the light vehicle so you guys can see the comparison and then these are the proposed requirements and in blue are just um areas that you guys might want to have discussion about set no outdoor sales and display areas shall be permitted within the requ yards and General commercial Zing districts area must be set back 10t from the front property that

seems I don't know I don't I don't think you can this Vehicles you know can still leave the full 20 or 30 foot set back that might be required actually indri set back set backal 30t okay we don't seem to be requiring that of I think language buters have been operating in the city continue to operate the city have that set back it's being enforced under anyway they have to keep the vehicles in um parking spaces areas area as far as I know the only complaint has been for quite a few years has been CL that they Park vision [Music] occas there used to be couple car dealerships on West Washington Street the curve that present problems but keeping them behind the side just a couple of feet they don't seem to interfere with any so RC is 30t General commercial is ZT and

is I I would feel all we have to do is require that they keep them on their own property right away maybe three to five foot set back or something okay which one three or five allow more equipment yeah does anybody disagree with that there was a an earli speak here p screen we're saying it's a display area referring to the screening uh I was going to get to that AB buding the residentially own property okay buding residential proper yeah did you want to talk about that one you guys have an issue with that resal property okay um and minimum lot size any thoughts on the no less than one half acre of land so you're okay with

C that was really what I was asking was um does the state require something different than the carer LIC to sell or do they require a no I didn't find anything on that we we do have that language yeah and it's only because it's it's all under the vehicle when you're selling a vehicle but they didn't have anything separate for heavy equipment okay so they probably do have to have it if it's licensable as a vehicle as a vehicle or a camper or like a trailer if LIC and um how with vehicles for sale by order you mean on their private property yes sort of not something we generally by complaint the answer probably we've had some issues where we we've been proactive about um trying to find like when the shco property was vacant for a while there were people that bring cars in there lot and we have to try to we try and international company that own the property get we eventually did but that's the kind of thing that's a situation where we really felt like compelled to try to go and find the property owners stop fromy to get I just bring it up because it seems

like there is language in here that would prevent it if if the city was aggressively enforcing it but um doesn't seem to do and that interest it's good to basically promote it as a you we have a lot of administrative discretion and enforcement and so depending on the issue it's more or less aggressively and a lot time has to do withs you one of the other planning commissions put a time frame on a for sale by owner that it could only sit there for so many months and that that kind of took care of the problem so that somebody doesn't come and have three used vehicles sitting in their area so you might think if if if it really becomes a problem that might be a solution well as far as front yards go we don't allow people to park in front yards no but in there driveway or whatever selling that they're not moving it's not being moved it's sitting there that was how it was addressed I'm just throwing that out there for active commercial properties so um if you don't have a license to sell cars you're basically not allow to advertising cars but again we have some discretion enforcing so as long as it kind of get out of control and people don't complain about it

okay storage if I was you guys talk a little bit about this at the last meeting Lan came right right um so we wrote up some proposals uh for new and changing definitions adding uses and requirements and changing some special land use to committed for different uses so we can start with the indoor storage definition you guys have any thoughts on that um I had a question um regarding indoor storage and then the Self Storage being separate items um because it says a type of personal indoor storage for the Self Storage but then indoor storage is also indoors um how are they differentiated in this so self storage will be a type of indoor storage but it's going going further so it's going to have more it's going to have separate regulations for it okay so for instance like um being accessible by the owner of the storage it main things differ so an indoor storage could be a you know building that has indoor storage and they're not leasing out separate areas that can only be accessed by that owner okay so it's individualized storage units for Self Storage versus indoor storage is just it could be a giant Warehouse that's all one and the owner of the property has to take the person their stuff okay any thoughts on that and then we're adding outdoor to the open [Music]

storage then we're we deleted the old Warehouse definition adding a new warehousing definition and making that more commercial yes commissioner just I'm just wondering how this definition applies to some of it is exemp because it's this places like over construction Checker bus um the cold stage businesses sou Street um they don't really seem to fit into this definition well I indoor storage well some is indoor some is outo probably one or the other outoor storage on Street a lot of those buses open storage but they're not typically for distribution I don't know lot of it is is equipment storage and know that's addressed elsewhere or

doesn't need to be addressed whatever we can add that the indoor storage definition equipment storage well some of it's indoor some outo but I guess it uh it's happening and you don't want to end up placing businesses in a nonconforming status because of language that we adoped here especially when they've been doing for decades not creating problems I know how difficult thiss language specifications appreciate the so before we had the storage B Storage open and then warehousing storage correct yeah where did those businesses fit in beforehand well very Loosely it would have been warehousing storage and then out open storage okay yeah so the indoor storage is is a really good addition IT addresses some things that really aren't argument that the just had equipment and stuff heavy

materals as as we're not requiring them to be drained of fuels things like that yeah and the wholesale definitions we just wanted to be a little more clear about that there's a difference between the uh trade wholesale trade businesses and okay and as they said the wholesale trade and wholesaling changed then here is the chart so in green showing all those existing uses that we have yellow are the changes um that being proposed and then we didn't know how how you felt about um permitted for the indoor storage and self storage facility in The General commercial so that's why anyone have any thoughts on that well I think I raised the point last meeting is that um I don't have a problem with either our commercial basically if it's conversion of an existing building that might be obsolete forend use it be old school or an office building or something but um we don't think we really want to promote a lot of story storage BS with commercial

districts so we had the map show The General commercial really Washington Street soude then South Street and the highway Street and most of those Parcels are fairly small um which kind of corresponds with our recommendation there for standards where we get to uh see Self Storage recommending that the size be limited to 40,000 square feet building footprint so there's not a lot of lots in The General commercial that would be able to come that there are some bigger Lots obviously by the west Western part most are small might be able to combine I really think that's Prime commercial property can serve a higher purpose and a higher tax detur to the city than having it occupied with story I think we should be trying to to encourage that higher use you know maybe if it's a secondary use on portion of the property such as we have with the

mot operation so it's not the primary use of the property it's filling in some back portion of the property wasn't need for primary use how can we write that in your that Li the size of those you have if having access uses yes so you say accessory use indoor storage access use if you want to be changed but they primary uses they'd be written like that we can add two more home access uses do that I guess i' like to protect that property for higher use I do like your idea and other municipalities have done it where there an abandoned school that's falling apart and they turned into the storage and it was they created jobs because a lot of boats and stuff were stored in there because it was where there was watercraft around and it was good use of the facility so and then he started doing up PE to the building itself which was nice so your idea that if the structure is kind of outlift its usefulness it could be a good conversion to something like that I maybe even unforunately Hospital would have been suitable for something like that no exactly and you're G to have structures come up so I'm not opposed to that I'd rather have it maintained than to have it become this falling apart so I don't know am I hearing a lot of grumbling from down the other end where the experts are I just

know I just you know but I'm not opposed to that us I guess I think because according to Logan we really have a shortage of storage facility so the more I don't know for being I guess if we approved the proposed language and just left out the uh General commercial District it might work just try to work on a future to just com idear AR storage just like I always the size of what they could be but if we did put pered for those locations we just went over so are you saying what we have right now indoor storage self remove any allowance in the GC then add accessory use for both those so add two more uses but then allow that to be permitted in the GC RC what we we would know thatal this color right here in these different areas not very much at all and then industrial blue

yes CU thought special use miuse it's not it's so I kind of thought you guys would lean towards special Landes for General commercial areas and not miuse based resal example some might find a building they want to your you prefer to talk about it at the next meeting good way to I mean if you want us to draw we can add that you visually see what thats like well one that it looks like might be suitable for only portion of pretty much C he has ideas I spoke with him and he would really like to see that as housing because we're so short of

apartments and he was wondering if senior housing but not where you needed medical care but just seeing your apartments I think that's much better use of it but rather than see it knocked down or oh yeah and so I was I was planning on bringing that up t i so yeah that's that structure is basically not being utilized except by a very few practices and and um they wondered if what kind of zoning they'd have to go through to make that a res a resident area but with as short of housing as we are and that's a nice central location to make that be available to make apartments or whatever so they next year they going buy well it wouldn't be them they would try to find somebody that would want to develop that do that I support as a special use for mixed use but you might want to tie it to reuse of an existing structure rather right so then would you apply special land GC talking about not even making a decision on GC GC is commercial already having a special use in GC then next use I do see yeah I agree that the ReUse of the building could be like the

only application that I would out yeah I'm kind of hant to and are we talking about self stor I guess I'm not sure what the demand is for the indoor storage I feel like I be for self stage there's some there's some indoor storage so around the city and you one just burn down a few years ago I wanted to have more storage that's not what I'm saying I just I and I don't want to make it too difficult especially for homeowners to have additional storage I mean within reason I mean you don't need to build a building bigger than your house and have it at storage and quote to a certain degree you don't want to encourage one that either right urban area because it really comes down to choices people make about they their consumerism to some extent want encourage people to just go live [Music] fin all comes back to you sir no comment I don't know well I

don't sorry for GC what is your answer on it special would you like to see that l i would support in General commercial speci use or use I see your con should be accessory they want know what's your [Music] opinion for this indoor store should it be a special land use in The General commercial or or only pered if I don't know I guess I would go permit as long as we have some way to utilize buildings that are that are kind of stuck in some of these areas that we wouldn't deteriorate the surrounding area they could I would be you know would not be opposed to that like I'm thinking of a school that ends up closing that you know so you want that for both mixed and general that I could live with but it's got to be very specific that's why when he said that you'd have to get a special land use because you're thiso say the old hospital there's a building left and for special land use it could be

evaluated if that would be a good fit for storage it might not be a good fit and if it was special land use then we would be able to think about how that impact area so majority speci all right so I'll draw that up and then we'll also add the two uses accessory for each and then let's move on to your thoughts one more before we leave that chart under nature repair and maintenance operations can we uh have that as permitted in the municipal and the Civic with situations like the service center and bus gar major repair and maintenance operations um they exist under Municipal already on your and since we usually have very little say in those trying to [Music] did that affect John's when we were looking at John's Auto wasn't that a similar situation it wouldn't have been municipal or cations it's yeah

pie okay so we're gonna rework this uh chart for for the storage uses and come up with the exes and then we're going to talk about again at the next meeting I would like to moving on here so for the St did you guys have any comments to the proposed changes in that section adding the zoning compliance or zoning sorry back to the no yeah back to the Chart um I kind of have some misings about um industrial manufacturing being a permitted use for storage units given the size and location ofg plant for PL site we have a storage unit as we're driving press right on the drive not sure I want to see that I don't I don't know if that we can make that a special land use for that I know if anybody any other that so you're saying you want the industrial to a special land use for the indoor S Storage um I guess indoor is okay um you're think I was thinking um outdoor stage oh I'm sorry scr that okay um so for the B did you guys have any um issues with adding The Zone compliance because it's not always the special in the zoning Ministry okay and then moving to the indoor storage more your thoughts in these

reg okay yeah so Part B there I'm curious why we are requiring um I me safety very important but why are we requiring it instead of the business with their insurance company cover well went storage the fire department prefer the safety of it right it's [Music] not okay question and then second thing um suggestion was uh the second the last sentence battery shall be removed from Vehicles before storage can we State the same thing um I'm sorry different can we do battery shall be removed from Vehicles before storage or disconnected oh sure and I think that also goes into that next section too um if someone is willing or wants to store say an electric vehicle where batteries are not removable are not allowing them to store those in those facilities that's that's not an option that's kind of the same question I bikes have batteries that's perhaps one of the Maj things people might want to store yeah we tell them can't start battery so where do they store the battery in the kitchen a better place or yeah

I know I I understand the part of it but I don't believe the building that bur down they cited was caused by a batter fuel can't exactly know but there were vehicles in there that had fuel in them and I think he Caine things like the food stff and um typically and you can't drain all the fuel out of the vehicle and still remove it from the storage ja so you have to leave some in it I I do think it becomes an issue that we probably should leave to the storage owner rather than so are you guys looking to strike all of then or just the last two sentences depends on how we interpret first uh sence of obviously we don't want cases D and who's going to believe it I mean is it a doable ordinance are you going to go and check out storage facility Well when they submit depending if if it's a special land user permitted use they have to provide that on so want to thats only storage facilities shows what their safeties for things like fuel batteries or anything

else try to figure out ourselves I think we're getting into questions we um there are some things we just we can't we're not going to enforce we're not we don't go around inspecting businesses to make sure they don't they comply with their gas that's not possible I think we should leave it up to fire code regul so we'll talk to the fire department about be on both items that's why I want to go through these so we can get everything up toate for you the next there know very few storage places to actually push your vehicle into the storage spot pull it back out the whole lium battery thing though is just compounds this problem infinitely they're so prevalent now it may not be possible toies disconnected or I don't see how you can make that can given how they're engineered right now and then even you know planable hazardous material is is present probably in almost every home City and it's be present in a lot of storage units from various ofu so we do need to ask the department okay so the next one C through

G the storage facility itself yeah we're still on indor okay still on how are we dealing with under a open St stre Harbor it's a different zoning District um they added there's a use in the downtown that don't know but I know there's something about storage of boats in the downtown waterf the fish there's several parcels that so if they're existing they or will issues with c g i mean if if those see that open stor part where have uses are gcrc municipal Civic industrial conservation there any of those districts where you want to just allow that I mean

it seems like in almost every one of those you w Really require screaming necessarily or you have uses that exist May screening is already nonexistent the one I see isation I just're we're developing new regulations that we look at existing businesses of land uses that especially those that have been in place for decades and they are gred so fash by language we're looking at that we tailor it so that doesn't happen was in the previous unless there's a history of complaints about it we're trying to develop language because we're getting complaints I think that's ad but if there's no complaints then I don't think we should be putting additional regulations on businesses that you're not going to be able to so yeah this was in the old C they brought that through so this was a requirement back then so that's part we have these meetings conversations if you're wanting to make a change now saying that you don't want to requirements open now's time looking at it so one one point out one one place where open storage is a real eyesore in the

public areas is up your Enterprise Drive in your at tourist Park B path um when you don't have full Le on trees on trees can see I mean it looks like crap you got all this laid down equipment and junk broken cement all that stuff up there so in in a way that's a that's a good requirement but maybe not every not everywhere in every situation is it realistic they want to have those screening Apartments some places in that case L is Norther material and we would be able toate anyway and other cases a lot of those uses were there before the city put the bike path there and the trees on the bike path right away for screening and probably added this requirement the old code my guess but yeah I I do think it may be an appropriate rule in some [Music] places but I guess I'm just suggesting in the future we're going to start adding language that's let's look at existing us first and try to identify them and whether the language puts additional regulations difficult to comp especially if we want more storage we want to encourage more businesses and not Chase anybody else

right so are you wanting us to make any changes to the existing language not if it's not if it's working the way it is I guess yeah so for any of the new businesses now all the ones that you kind card that in the code for instance if a person work work on cars decided that they want to have all the vehicles that they're done with just parked all the way along the street in the front yard and all that would you want that to happen or would you prefer them to be parking in the rear behind screen what right right so this would be for those was new so they would have to provide how they're going to meet meet that with this the other ones are definitely existing for I don't know when they added the Open Storage but they may have added it after seeing all those old uses with it getting out control possibly um but I just know this is the exact language that was in the old 1980s code okay so I have to want to tie this so to the per the use chart and also you guys consider that because we have these permitted or showing highlighted in green existing um yeah but do you want to change anything like if you want to change anything to special use where you have more more say and be able to put conditions on it that's where special land use is that

and it seems like maybe you want that control for some areas conservation R districts really don't well aren't they required well I guess if they were they would be required to screen if they were abing a different zoning District correct if that requ some of them are not well against Residential but even tourist Park campgr wasn't built after those industrial uses were on the property next door so in that case if it's if it's a new use on you know Municipal and they don't want to look at neighbors jum their obligation screen their back so if it's a new use on conservation reparation is not for them to put in any screen for the it becomes typically it becomes their would be their option andly their desired so the only thing is that they were doing the outdoor storage is re not the other uses there first you come and don't like it you can do something

re right want leave the outdoor open storage outdoor storage as is with pered uses across we do you think it needs to be added to any other District makes bus so indoor storage C through G any comments thoughts on those so then S Storage uh B we will talk to the fire department on that you guys have any thoughts about the other a and then C through L when you see no other activity under typically those properties have to sell property of sales properties

matal and again if we're going to allow them as an accessory use on properties have other activity property and then on b i gu same same applies to and G talk about should having individual door to the outdoors using existing buildings just to cor to outoors Point smart to catch because there are businesses that don't have the full completely enclosed building but'll have indidual so did you guys put this do you think that we need to add any parking requirements for the indoor Storage storage s facility to the

table i' recomend [Music] not all right then we are done next was uh I think you po this at the last meeting as well about the rain gutter language and after looking at that um we decided to rewrite the section A little bit and changing the storm water section as shown did you guys coms on it paragraph three I still would not want to see this where subdivisions like Cher Sals where the streets were built in the L property smoke to it of Al to direct elsewhere especially rocking most lot of

run there I agree that it shouldn't go on toot but um I think the public in many cases is the only alternative Wass of the city to accept that mhm that seem good catch there's already I guess plan riew and and some other regulations that prohibit large new developments from helping any wi the public storm system or off storm wire credits on their utility bill if they provide enough contention but especially for residential um I think that's the way to protect some of the adjacent residential lots in this case and I think it's just a matter of interpreting this language it doesn't say um that you it says property yeah joining property so the May fix for this to deal with this issue of right away just join private property and that takes off the S I think that's good I think that's a good change I agree with moving

on believe you guys talk about this at the last meeting as well you brought um the certificate of occupancy language the existing language in a um and since we the city do not issue a certific that should be Del that County so we proposed for deltion of that um same language that you guys are okay with with be and then uh proposed um since the language of St occupancy have met or performance guarantee has been posted in accordance with the provision set forth so since that was struck out the idea was bring own paragraph do you have any thoughts on that yeah we're bringing that back up that prefer you wanted to bond right yeah and may be required a change here so um that would give you ability to do that through special land use review or for [Music] S so I just thought we decided we didn't want to have them have to get no you asked for to be brought back oh I thought we wer first conversation you guys had about that the tone of the conversation was like we're going to charge developers this we're going to collect this money that

they're never going to get back it's kind was never brought up that in virtually every case developers can get their bond back right they do what they're supposed to do is the only when they're not don't do what they're supposed to and you don't even want to have that flexibility to be able to impose on I mean I I personally feel like that the Landscaping bond is a worthwhile thing to have in a small amount of money $5,000 on a large project but you're but taking away your flexibility to even impose that as a condition is is also CH I was just concerned at the cost for the developer who's already spending thousands on Landscaping is what what we were talking abouts right exactly I don't know I don't know how difficult it is to get B I haven't got one while so I don't know what kind of hardship that does on a developer I think a lot for it is okay and the key difference here compared to what was initially proposed is the maybe it gives us that option that's the flexibility Ry y I'm favor this langued am right um I think it should be a realistic Fe but not

yeah I don't know talk yeah I I mean I think I mean on all this stuff we should have the word based on the topography on some of this stuff but now on the Landscaping if you say maybe it's either going to have to be you will this may stuff doesn't work well if the plan commission has has the ability to conditions if it thinks that this is devopment that should for whatever reason maybe this the