Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Yes. Vice Chair Walton. Yes. Commissioner St. John. Yes. Commissioner Chang. Yes. Commissioner Jacobson. Yes. Motion passes. Okay. Now we can go into the public.

So, this is going to be a really short meeting today, but there's some stuff that we were asked to do by council and uh just needed to follow up on some other items. So, the first item, um, we were asked to research a part of our municipal code by the city council. Um, like most cities, we do have an adult business ordinance that heavily restricts if somebody wants to do a adult type business, but it's a little outdated. Some of this case law goes all the way back to the 70s. Um, so there are some language in there that can be considered offensive to certain people. Um, so the the first item before you is a very simple removal of two or three words from the admissible code. So that's really that's all it. So that's there's really no presentation. It's just a request to remove those words from the municipal code and kick this up to council that we can get this done by probably September September 16th at the council meeting. And um if you want you can just read the motion directly from the agenda. All right. So, so it reads, "A minor amendment to the Marina Municipal Code amend male and female impersonators. The planning commission to consider adopting resolution 202510 recommending that the city council adopt the proposed amendment to section 17.52.020 020 of the Marina Municipal Code, MMC, removing the phrase male and female impersonators from the definition of adult cabaret, thereby removing this form of personal and cultural expression from un unregulated

from uses regulated by Oh, that's a new word for me. Can we What is uses regulated? I'm sorry. Just land uses like commercial or residential uses. Just Yeah, thank you. Just uses uses regulated by the adult businesses and massage therapist section of the MMC. The proposed ordinance is exempt from environmental review pursuant to action and 1506 to pursuant to section and 15061B3 of the SQL guidelines project planner. Allison Hunter, planning services manager. And then there are documents.

Yes. And uh just because you don't do this a lot, I vice chair uh the the attorney will get on me for I guess technically we're supposed to open up for public comment. There's nobody online. There's nobody in the audience, but you're supposed to, you know, ask for if there's public comment. Are is there any public comment? We have one member of the public on the Zoom call. So if presumably she wants to have to ask the question. No, no, I don't see any. Is there any discussion from the DY?

No questions. All right. So, can I get a motion to approve the um the resolution as proposed? I'll make the motion. I'll second it. Thank you. Should we reread it? Well, she just read it. Pardon me. She just read it. Okay. I make the motion as vice chair has read. All right. Thank you. And your second? And I second that. So, Commissioner Baron, Commissioner Rana, yes. Vice Chair Walton, yes. Commissioner St. John, yes. Commissioner Chang,

yes. Commissioner Jacobson, yes. Motion passes.

And we're moving into ourformational items. First one is the Monterey Selenus Transit Mobility Hubite. Good evening. My name is Brian Kim. I'm the assistant planner and today I'll be presenting about the Monterey Selenas Transit Mobility Hub as anformational item. Next slide, please. So MST will be building a mobility hub on the fifth street. Um this is a part of the approved surf bus rapid transit program uh project that was previously approved by the PC and city council in May and June of 2024. This uh the structure will be 960 ft. Um, I accidentally put the wrong number in the packet, but it's actually 960 square feet and it will be 13 feet tall. The structure will be used for bike storage and repair for MST customers and other people. There is no change in the true removal, landscaping, lighting, or any other aspects of the larger project that was previously approved by planning commission and city council. And the resign uh and the reason that the design review for the mobility hub was deferred was as uh it was not thought to be required at the time of the larger project review and the anticipated construction of the mobility hub will be from March to October 2026. Next slide please. So here's a map of the project location.

Next slide, please. And here's the site plan. It's going to be the top yellow figure. Could you orient me to this map? I'm not sure. Are we looking north, south, east, west? Where do we look? Uh, this should be correct. Um, the way It should be what? It should be correct like as it was in the previous map. So the top should be facing north. Okay. So that's there it is. That's facing north. Okay. Got it.

And next slide please. And here's the rendering and the materials that will be used. So if you see in the picture um this will be what the structure looks like. So a very short presentation just anformational item on the mobility hub. Thank you.

Yeah. And the the genesis of this is that the planning commission and council as Brian mentioned already approved the MST project and there was a very small rendering on the plans that you guys looked at over a year and a half ago, but we didn't have detailed drawings like we have now. So technically the commission and council have already approved this but we just thought out of transparency purposes we should bring this back so the commission knows that we're doing everything above board and so that's really why we're bringing it's more of anformational item. So,

thank you for that, Brian. I appreciate um and we're going to go right into uh the next item, innovative housing models in support of housing element program.

Yeah. So, as the commission knows, we've been working really hard to we got our fifth and sixth cycle housing elements certified. We've been plowing away at all of the different programs. I've been a little bit delayed because I've been working on other stuff this year. Um, but we're trying to trying to get back on track with some of the programs we're supposed to implement for this year. Uh, one of the programs in our housing element is we were asked by the commission and council if you recall during housing element certification is Guido and the staff what can you do to recommend types of housing that are more coste effective that get uh housing in the ground quicker effectively uh cheaper more effect uh faster. So, uh, Bryce from Rencon is going to be sharing some of the work that he's been doing and that eventually we'll bring this back for adoption. And so, that that's basically the background. So, I'm going to pass this off to Bryce and pull up his PowerPoint.

Uh, thanks so much, Guido. Um, can everyone see the shared screen? That's not the right one. There you go. There. Uh, all right. One more try. Bryce. Oh,

there we go. Was that There we go. Perfect.

Okay. Um, good evening, vice chair and commissioners. Um, my name is Bryce Haney with Ringcon Consultants and I'm here tonight to present present the work that we've done so far to implement two housing element programs, but especially the research um that we've gathered for the economical housing toolkit. Um, so this is work that we've uh done as part of the city's broader housing element implementation efforts that's focused on making housing more affordable, more efficient to build, and more feasible in Marina. Um, so first up, I'm going to I'm going to provide um I'm going to walk you through kind of the main pieces of these implementation efforts. Um, I'll give a brief overview of the housing element implementation efforts that Ringcon was tasked with by the city. Then I'll provide a quick update on part of that effort, the uh faith-based housing overlay. And then for the rest of the presentation, I'll present the findings of the research that we've done for the economical housing toolkit. So that's going to include a set of innovative construction techniques that are gaining traction in California, some more cutting edge construction methods that we see, you know, a little bit further out on the horizon. Um, and then I'll discuss kind of the role that local jurisdictions like Marina can play in supporting these new techniques. Um so first off this project is uh funded through uh HCD's REAP 2.0 grant which provides resources to cities to implement housing element programs. Um so Rinkcon was tasked with helping the city implement two of these programs. Um the first one being program 1.4 which directs the city to encourage the development of housing on um the properties of faith-based and other institutions like schools and community organizations. and program 2.3 um which directs the city to explore and present information on innovative housing types and

construction techniques um that have the potential to reduce costs and speed up housing delivery. Um so we're calling that the economical housing toolkit. So, the final product of this toolkit will be an educational toolkit intended to inform city staff and decision makers on new construction techniques that may come up as development projects come into the community development department. Um, and it'll be kind of a quick reference guide with links to further resources and case study projects and that kind of thing. Um, so these two programs are an important part of the city's eligibility for the state's proousing designation, which gives the city a kind of an edge when applying for larger state grants for housing focused community benefit projects, infrastructure projects, uh, public transit improvements, and that kind of thing. Um, so that's a general overview of the broader project, and now we can get into some of the the details of each of these, uh, implementation efforts. Um so first a quick update on the faith-based housing overlay. Um as you know the state recently adopted SB4 and AB1851 which allows qualifying uh affordable housing projects by right on the properties of religious and higher instit educational institutions. Um, the city has an opportunity to kind of go further than SB4 by creating an overlay zone that accomplishes the intent of that legislation, but it use utilizes some of the best practices that we've determined have the greatest chance to to promote housing production on these types of sites. Um, so some of those best practices include uh applying the overlay to other institutional uses um such as social clubs and school district owned properties. um increasing height and density allowances beyond those of SB4. Um and then developing standards for institutional property owners to use PE

pre-fabricated units or other innovative construction methods uh to rapidly increase housing supply. Um so right now we're drafting a a version of this faith-based housing overlay um that incorporates these best practices and we're looking to present that draft uh to city staff uh later this fall. So shifting gears now to the economical housing toolkit. Um as everyone knows uh Marina like other California cities faces high housing costs. And part of the solution to that issue uh lies in innovations in the construction industry which have enabled developers to build housing faster um with lower costs and with less waste. So, some of the methods that are commonly used today uh kind of throughout the state are these flatpacked cabins that are often used for transitional and inter interim housing um to combat homelessness, pre-fabricated and modular single units that are used for ADUs and some um custom single family homes and modular construction that is often used uh in larger scale multif family projects. So looking ahead at some of the other um kind of u innovations that are a little bit further down the timeline, um we're seeing regulatory advancements that may uh allow single stair construction in California um in the near future. Um mass timber is a technology that's gaining traction for larger multif family projects and even pilot programs that use uh 3D printing to rapidly build single family units. So, we'll get into all of these construction methods and discuss uh some of their advantages. Um, starting with uh flatpacked cabins. Um, so these are essentially pre-fabricated micro units. Um, anywhere from about 64 ft for an 8 by8 cabin all the way up to 200 square ft. Uh, so they'll usually have uh a steel frame

with an insulated composite plastic wall. Um and some units can be configured with bathrooms and all uh will typically be fitted with heating, air conditioning and electricity. So climate control is available. Um there's multiple manufacturers for these kinds of units. Two of the biggest ones are being uh pallet shelter and boss cubes. Both of which have supplied projects throughout California. And these are these are the lowest cost uh solutions that we'll cover today. So the units themselves start as low as $8,000 per unit. Um, and tiny home communities that utilize these units, um, that I'm sure you've probably seen, will typically cost between 35 to $50,000 per unit to design and build. So, that's, um, everything from site preparation to uh, shared uh, shower and bathroom facilities and all of all the things that turn, you know, a group of these units into a little community. Um so some of the advantages um is that these units are rapidly deployable for disaster relief and transitional housing. Um the units are relatively small and lightweight structures that allow really flexible arrangements um at high densities on on small sites and they offer a more secure longer term individual living space in comparison with traditional uh kind of transitional shelter models. Um, so like I said, these are typically used in uh tiny home village transitional shelters like the Dignity Moves Tiny Home Village in Santa Barbara uh which is shown here and the Serenity Homes uh in Baldwin Park. So, these communities are uh usually will feature on-site security, shared laundry, bathroom, and shower facilities, and they'll offer supportive social services on site, which are typically offered uh operated by local nonprofits.

So, next we'll uh scale up slightly and talk about more permanent pre-fabricated single units. Um these come in two main forms. panelized units where flat sections of uh the structures are built in a factory and then shipped to the project site to be assembled at the project site and then modular units where the entire unit uh is built in a factory and delivered to the project site near the complete. Um so the primary advantage of this type of construction is speed. um while the unit is being built offsite in the factory, site preparation can take place. Um and later the finished units could be moved directly onto the site and set up and you're you're ready to occupy them, you know, in as little as as a week or so. So, this ends up cutting months off of the total construction time. Um, the costs for these types of units range very widely, uh, from about $60,000 to $350,000 per unit depending on size, the different finishes and configurations. Um, that's just the cost for the unit itself. Uh, you know, important site prep work like foundations and utility connections are an additional cost that again varies widely depending on the site. Uh so this is a good time to discuss the differences between modular housing and more traditional manufactured homes. So traditional manufactured homes or mobile homes um are built to federal building standards established by the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Um they have to include a permanent steel chassis that allows them to be transported easily. Um and these uniform national standards override local building codes. So on the other hand, modular units are placed on permanent foundations and not intended to be moved. Modular construction is subject to local building codes including um title 24

regulations for green building and they're regulated by California's HCD under their factory built housing program. U manufactured units are legally considered personal property like a car or RV whereas modular units are considered real property like any other sightbuilt home. Uh pre-fabricated modular units offer several advantages to site built construction. Like I said, they can be installed on site much faster than traditional uh structures can be built. Um, under the HCD uh, factory-built housing program, modular units are inspected at the factory, which allows local building officials to kind of limit their review to the site preparation and the final installation of the unit instead of the inspection of the unit itself. Um, another advantage for uh, property owners that want to use these uh, manufactured units or modular units um, is that many manufacturers um, offer in-house kind of turnkey services which cover the the design uh, permitting and installation of the unit. Uh, which the offers the property owner sort of a one-stop shop instead of working with a bunch of different uh, contractors and professionals. Uh lastly, these units are really flexible. They can be used as a simple um you know, a single backyard ADU uh or grouped into pocket neighborhoods of smaller single family homes. U prefab ADUs, as most people know, is a uh it's already really common in in California. And then projects like the Valley View Senior uh apartments in American Canyon um show that they kind of scale up into these highquality multif family uh developments. Um next up we jumped into uh we jump up

in the housing scale uh once again to modular construction for multif family projects. So with this method um entire units are built and finished offsite and then stacked at the project site to form uh the building. Um so after they're stacked the exterior building treatments are added to to finish and weatherproof the building. Um as with other pre-fabricated construction methods, site preparation like uh utility connections and foundations can be laid while the individual apartment units are built offsite um and then of course stacked back on site. uh once they're ready. Um costs for these types of buildings can be 10 to 20% lower than traditional builds. Um but again, the real benefit to developers is time and predictability. Um builders benefit from predictable predictable schedules, uh reduced risk and timelines that can be uh up to 40% faster than site built construction. Additionally, because of uh of more precise factory construction, there's typically less wasted material um from traditional site built methods. Um there's multiple manufacturers of these um you know kind of modular apartment units uh throughout the western US that serve builders uh in California. Two of the largest are Gordon and Autoval and then a local company Factory OS is based in Vallejo, California. So all these companies have proven track records for delivering multif family housing projects um including several local examples um that used modular construction. Um this is Parkside Manor uh which was built by Gueron I believe. Um and there's several others in uh Selenus and San Jose. Um so these projects de demonstrate the value of modular construction as kind of

a tool in the toolbox for affordable housing developers. It's another um it's another tool that they can use to possibly uh make a project pencil where it might not otherwise and then also of course get housing built as fast as possible. So, next I'll cover a few of the latest construction methods that are gaining traction in California, but maybe a little further off for uh Marina. So, one of the most exciting changes on the horizon is reform around uh single stair construction. Currently, state building code requires two stairwells in buildings uh in any building over three stories. Um, this is generally intended to increase safety in the event of a fire, but numerous recent studies of buildings in New York and Europe have shown that single stair buildings are just as safe as two- stair buildings as long as certain safety measures are in place. So, fireproof doors, pressurized stairwells, and sprinkler systems throughout the building. Um, but reform is coming to California. uh AB835 directed the state to create building standards that allow single stair stair mid-rise apartment buildings by 2028. Um so why does it matter? Uh single stair buildings are often less costly to build and the floor area freed up by eliminating that stairwell and the long hallways between them um enables larger kind of family-friendly units with more natural light and ventilation. So this reform could be a kind of a gamecher for missing middle housing types, small apartment buildings on um smaller lots where other building types are infeasible. So this is kind of a diagram comparing the differences between a single and a and a double stair building. On the left there's a double stair building. And you can kind of see that the extra space taken up by the the stairwell and eliminating the extra space taken up by

the stairwell and all of those hallways um can significantly shrink the footprint of the building. And then again, it enables that um light and ventilation to come into the building on on come into each unit on multiple sides of the building. Um another emerging technology uh is mass timber construction. So mass timber or cross laminated timber or CLT um involves the use of engineered wood panels that can replace steel and concrete in mid to high-rise buildings. So extremely strong building materials out of wood instead of these more intensive expensive steel and concrete. Um, so mass timber buildings can be built quickly taking advantage of that off-site manufacturing building components um that we've been talking about and they're really environmentally friendly with wood harvested from sustainably managed forests that sequester atmospheric carbon. So mass timber is already appearing in uh buildings around California with projects like the kind apartments in Sacramento and the super bungalows in Los Angeles just shown here. And mass timber construction can be cost competitive depending on the type of project, but typically it's kind of reserved for larger apartment buildings at this point. Um, and not many builders have used CLT uh in smaller projects in California yet. And finally, uh 3D printed housing. This method involves uh large robotic printers that actually extrude concrete um in a mixture to form uh the interior and exterior walls of the structure. So companies like um Icon who manufacture these printers are working with home builders like LAR to print the vertical walls of single family homes like in a matter of days. Um, so proponents

estimate that 3D printing could reduce hard costs by uh up to 40% by eliminating waste and uh introducing automation into the construction process. Um, so in the California Building Code, residential 3D printing is allowed uh in California on a case-byase basis via the California residential code alternatives methods uh provisions, but the buildings require a more thorough review by an engineer to ensure that the design and the materials can withstand earthquakes and other structural loads. So, California's first 3D printed home was built in Reading in 2003. Um, and while still it's in the early phases, there's a lot of talk in the construction industry um for this technology to to develop into something that really saves a lot of time and uh and construction cost. Um so what role does a jurisdiction like Marina have in uh in kind of allowing these construction methods to to take place? Um well the jurisdiction can partner with local uh or with modular manufacturers and architects to pre-certified um popular modular ADUs or multif family designed designs um that can simplify local permitting. Um the city can train staff uh building staff on factory built construction, plan approval and module installation to reduce delays and cost uncertainty. And it can codify the acceptance of pre-fabricated pro products as equivalent to conventional materials, you know, provided that they meet performance standards. Um they can also define cottage clusters or pocket neighborhoods. These are um in the zoning code, these are kind of um small lot subdivisions of of detached uh homes

which uh usually are arranged around like a common courtyard or or walking path. Um and that can support the use of smaller modular units um in this type of development. And then lastly, it can support uh support and promote the use of SB9 and SB 684 to support uh small lot subdivision and cottage cluster development, which often times these uh modular units are used in. Um so to wrap up, Marina has a a unique opportunity to take the lead in in housing innovation. um we can pair zoning reforms like the faith-based housing overlay with construction innovations in this toolkit and um and hopefully we can make real progress towards housing affordability and availability. So, thanks for your time and um I'd be happy to do my best to answer any questions.

Thank you. Thank you so much for that, Bryce. That was that was um very informative. Um, does anyone have questions for Bryce? I have a few, but I'm saving I'm saving them. Any questions, thoughts? There's got to be something. I forgot. All right, we start with Commissioner Baron. Move to remember your last name.

Um, in one of the slides you showed the um Hey certain units can cost from 60,000 to 350,000. I don't see how three uh 150,000 uh can be considered um for affordable housing. So what exactly does it mean that some units can cost 350,000 to manufacture if that's what I understood correctly? Thank you. I think the range was 60 to 350. Is that correct, Bryce? Yes, that's correct. Yeah. Okay.

So, um if you want to pull up that slide, Bryce, just to show the range.

Sure. Sure. Actually, I just lost it, so it might take me a second to pull it back up. Um but I can actually I can speak to that. Um the um a lot of times affordable housing in California can can cost you know upwards of especially in the Bay Area can cost upwards of uh you know $500,000 per unit. Um so looking at something that's you know $350,000 is is not too far off of that um kind of that range. Housing just generally is very expensive. Um, and then also kind of these units, these pre-manufactured units that are costing, you know, $350,000 per unit. These are um these are kind of higherend units that uh you know, someone would install in their backyard to to rent out as an ADU or for their uh you know, for their aging parent or something like that. So, um you know, 350,000 is sort of the higher end for for these types of units. Um but costs can be can be much lower of course.

Well really this is an opportunity for the commission to ask questions but also to provide if there's some other innovative housing solutions we haven't thought of. And so yeah, Commissioner Jacobson looks I guess we're gonna go St. uh Commissioner St. John and then um Commissioner Jacobson.

Uh yes, thank you. Sure. Uh Bryce, first thank you for a very informative presentation and I look forward to to seeing more. And actually, what is your schedule for completing the housing study and says issuing it to the planning commission? Uh so our our primary focus right now is the is the um faith-based housing overlay because of the sort of you know code implications of of that type of project. Um, but we're looking to to have it uh this fall, you know, before before the end of the year. the final document.

Can it peacemail like package first off? Yeah, I don't know if we've thought that one through if if there's a request to do them together or separate, you know, whatever. U kind of depends on our workload and whatnot. But yeah, we we can we can certainly bring it back. So yeah, I think it I would personally prefer it as a step by step and instead of waiting for the whole package. Sounds good.

Commissioner, Commissioner Jacobson.

Thank you, ma'am. Um I just have two questions. Um, as we brought up in earlier conversations about the manufactured and the modular homes, one of the objections that was raised was that most of these units are manufactured outside of the state and that there was the transportation costs were very high. Are your estimates do they include those transportation costs? Yeah. So the the estimates I I shared that kind of the direct kind of 60k to to 350k don't include uh the transportation cost but but yeah absolutely that's a that's a major factor. Um it uh it typically is is sight specific and manufacturer specific the the manufacturers um some manufacturers do have uh factories here in the state of California. So it's it can be a little bit less but of course it's going to it's going to depend on on every uh project.

Okay. So the so these these figures could be raised sign I don't know if it's significantly or not but I know the transportation issue is there. So

please keep that in mind when you are finishing this up and make sure that the costs are all inclusive so it's can be better evaluated. Um, the other thing is that I had an experience a couple of years ago of going to a hotel in uh, Pastor Robels and the entire hotel which had about 2530 rooms was entirely constructed from repurposed containers like the containers that go on container ships. has has is that one of the things that has been looked at or should be looked at because they're stackable, they're hard as nails, and it was it was quite an experience. I felt very safe.

Um yeah, absolutely. In the in the research for this project, the the shipping container uh homes and units have come up. Um and so yeah, we can definitely include them in the in the discussion as well. That would be great. Uh back to you, Madame Chair. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, uh yes, Lana,

I have uh two questions for faith-based housing. Uh who are the beneficiaries and who decides who can benefit? Sorry, I think I missed the last part of that question. Who are the beneficiaries and who decides that who can be a beneficiary um for uh occupying the units that would be built on a on a religious institution property or yeah I'm talking about that faith-based

um I think there's uh Guido can correct me if I'm wrong but the um for uh affordable housing that uses um state or federal funding like uh you know the LITC uh tax credit program or or that kind of thing. Um the occupancy of those units is um is regulated so it's it's somewhat open or for folks that are specifically vulnerable. Um but for other types of of housing, I know there's a lot of case studies around um uh faith-based communities that have built housing on their properties specifically for uh their staff or for their you know members of their congregation. Um so if they are not using um some of these state funding programs and federal funding programs um yeah they can build they can build units for who they choose.

Okay. And uh the second question is uh that for these new suggested uh models that we heard today are the insurance and the financial institutions on board with these models.

Yeah. So um it's financing has been an issue um you know in in years past but with the kind of broader adoption and the broader um the formalization of the of the manufacturing of these modular units um financing is often available through uh through the manufacturer of the of the modular unit. Um, and then there's more uh there's more acceptance of of modular type construction for for financing of a mortgage for a new home or an ADU for that um for that type of thing. So uh I think there's there's still some uh reluctance on on the part of some banks to finance the types these types of products but there's a lot of improvement in the last even five years

and the insurance companies are totally on board. Uh as far as I know as far as I know yeah. Okay. Thank you. All right, it looks like we're um right back to um Commissioner St. John. And I want to my last bite of the apple today. Uh I think I would direct this one to Guido. It is there any thought for this type of housing supplied by the city of Marina for any unhoused

um that's definitely a possibility. Um so for the Cypress Nolles development one of we had a big joint meeting with the council a couple years ago and it's been a little while now. Uh, one of the charges from the city council was when we eventually do a housing project out at the Cypress Null site to make it as coste effective as possible. So, some of these ideas that were floating around potentially could end up in the Cypress Null's development. So,

well, I wanted to change the focus a little bit. the the uh population of unhoused people, people that are on the street, right?

And lack a proper place to live. I think Marina doesn't have a great problem, you know, a huge problem. Maybe because it's a little chilly here, but uh I don't think we are immune from a you know a housing shortage for unhoused people. I'm not so sure that we have very many units at all. You could probably share a little bit of that. What kind of facilities do we have for unhoused?

Uh, I mean, we do have quite a bit of transitional housing and actually it's in the housing element all the list of different affordable housing sites we have in the city. But to your point, this is a model that can be used to help support the unhoused folks. Uh, about two miles from my house in San Jose, uh, John Sabrad is a major developer in San Jose. He's partnering with the city of San Jose. They're building 110 of these modular units about 2 miles from my house and they're all stacked up and I I run by it once or twice a week and you see them being stacked up and then you see the material being added to the buildings and it's gone up pretty quickly. Um so yeah, and that's that's going to that project is specifically to support uh transitional and support unhoused people. So it's definitely being used at least up in the Bay Area. So

you know what's kind of interesting and continue the discussion is uh so as you said Marina may not have as large of a population of homeless as does the city of Seaside or the city of Monterey. Um, this is going to sound I don't want it to sound callous, but if we overbuild our homeless accommodations, they will come. We we also should be in a position at least a plan to solve the problem.

Yes. Should the problem expand or exponentially grow on us? Yes. It's better than commandeering the, you know, the gymnasium in the school or whatever. Agreed. Right. Right. All right. So, let's just add that one to the Absolutely.

All right. Anybody else want to bite? Yes. Um, Commissioner T.

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing the the information very informative. The uh every state have a different building code. Correct. So when you look at the manufacturers of this uh prefab housing uh from out of state, I I'm not sure whether they are constructions and and all the electrical and plumbing complying with the California uh code. So shouldn't we give preference to companies the manufacturing company who are in California instead of looking at others uh outside the state? And what do you think?

Sure. Um, so, uh, typically the, uh, as far as, you know, compliance with building codes, uh, goes, um, the manufacturers of of these types of units, um, will take specs from, uh, from all over the country and and, um, will build units based on the project. So, if the project is is going, you know, an affordable housing building in in San Jose, the manufacturer, which might be in Idaho, um will build the the units to the code that applies in San Jose. Um also, uh California's building code is is based mostly on the the international uh international building code, which um is is also used in other states. So there's not there's not that much difference between um building codes in California versus um building codes, you know, throughout the West. Um California does have uh more extensive uh seismic uh requirements, but again, manufacturers of these units are familiar with those seismic requirements and they will, you know, build the units to meet those requirements. Well, maybe the fixtures like uh the shower head and the uh the toilet, you know, the water flow. I think in California we are more strict on the water flow rate than other state. Our water flow rate is lower than other state. So that's why sometimes you cannot get things from our state. You have to get something that comply with California requirement. And uh there are certain thing we have to look at it you know. Correct.

Um yeah absolutely but again I think the uh the manufacturers um manufacturers will build the units for um wherever they're going to be placed. So um you know if that means lowerflow fixtures for um for California I think that's that's something that is accommodated. Also in your selection in your study did have you consider the material they use uh they do they use more like um plastic instead of wood you know that uh because of the environmental factors for for some of the types that we've talked about um like the uh the flat packed cabins those do use a lot of plastic um

for uh but those are you know kind of more for interim housing housing. Um for some of the manufacturers uh that build uh you know permanent modular units um it's it's basically the materials that that you find in a typical house uh you know any site build house um today. Um there is some uh there are some companies um there's a company called Cover uh which uh is sort of kind of at the the leading edge of these you know more higherend manufactured units um that they'll use kind of modern materials. So um steel, glass, and some plastic um to create the panels that will fit together um to form the to form the building. Um so so yeah I mean there's there's a lot of variation in the industry for sure.

Well if if possible if able to disclose it you know the percentage of material use of plastic or material percentage use of wood or steel that would be helpful.

Right. Thank you. And thank you, Commissioner King, because I'm going to jump right off from there and ask a very similar question with respect to those building materials. Um, how long will do we think those buildings will last? For example, in San Jose, the staff modulars, American Canyon senior um senior Yeah, senior homes. Oh, there's apartments. apartments in Yeah. LA senior apartments in American Canyon. Like how how long do we think in 20 years 50 10 is it tempor temporary permanent?

Um the trainings that I've gone to haven't indicated that they'll last less than traditional stickuilt housing, but I I'd have to get back to you about the exact number. Um, it's a leadin question because I I'm just wondering with respect to I mean these these homes really do look amazing. They do. Um, I I I'm not sure, but I think Elon Musk's uh Boxable would fit into this category. Okay.

Right. Um and and I'm very excited about this. But my question then would become why should we continue building traditional homes when we have a much um less expensive but um um equally adequate housing available on the market that can stack, can grow, can get bigger, can get smaller.

Yeah. I mean that that's the million-dollar question, right? that as these technologies become uh cheaper, faster, more economical, then then they become more viable for more people, right? In terms of different income levels and so probably will take few more generations of this stuff to to make it there. But that that's a legitimate question. It leads me to my next question then with respect to buying plots of land to put those homes on once we we get to that scale that you're mentioning of couple generations from now. Um does Marina have single home plots for sale where somebody could get one of these 350k modular homes and and plop it? They buy the plot of land for however much the just the blank.

Yeah. I mean, current California housing law is if you have a modular unit, you're not supposed to treat it different than a stick build as long as it can meet the setbacks and the height and all the city standards. So, theoretically, somebody could there's a vacant lot in town now and file for a building permit and we're required by law to to look at it the same way. Yeah. But I would say when I entered planning 20 years ago that those uh options were a little bit more expensive and I think what Bryce is trying to articulate is the cost is coming down so we can get more housing online. So your question is a very good question because yeah somebody could do that now.

Yeah. I I thought that you know Glenn's proposal about using all the city lots that are sitting out there empty that aren't being used. they don't they don't serve a purpose because they don't hold water. There's never been any. You know, he he talked about filling those up. This would be the perfect thing to to just drop on. And and you know, I think the other thing um with these units becoming

very popular is um probably resistance on the part of the trades unions. less carpenters, less electricians, less plumbers, less so there's probably gonna be some friction as time goes on about that.

Yeah. I just and I want to piggyback on that because because another part of that then my my line of questions is with respect to property values and the surrounding neighborhood the the people who bought the $1.3 million home but are now just down the street from Elon Musk's $25,000 boxable. Well, so so so to answer your question, um um you know, it still it still has to meet the city's zoning and objectives standards, right? You couldn't just plop a a mountain of steel somewhere, okay? You know, and paint ain't it and call it, right? There are there is

350k home is now two two houses down from my my home that I bought 10 years before and I'm still paying on what what happens to me. This is it's actually a million 350. Oh lord. Because the value of the land doesn't change. So and that's the biggest value here in California is the land because that's the one thing we can't create. So they keep their value.

Sure. So, so they get their 350 house. It sits on a million-doll lot and whatever the, you know, the contract on the uh home is, you know, they can sell it at some point, but they can't sell it for a million three, they can sell it for 700,000 or what whatever it is. Those are usually written into the contracts for lower income housing. Correct, Rita? Uh, yes, that's that. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. And I think I think that that's my that's my last followup question. Thank you.

Of course. Just another another fact is that most of the milliondoll homes being built now are in pre- designated subdivisions that aren't selling empty lots.

Right. And they're not leaving, to my knowledge, any empty lots for the future. They are building out like Sea Haven has a 1,080 units and when they finish that in however many decades are left they will not walk away with any empty any empty lots. Yes sir. and probably the same in in the dunes, right? And

I think they're all I think I think the um um contract not the contractor, the developers have that that's theirs. I'm talking about like so in inside of Marina when you drive around a lot of these houses are are hidden at that million mark. You know, I actually have a modular home that was placed on in my culde-sac. Nice. and it came in uh and it was placed on um what do you not a slab but a a foundation. Okay. And then after it was placed they built a garage on to it. This was probably 12 to 15 years ago and you can't tell.

Nice. You can't tell and nobody nobody minds. Nobody nobody nobody said a word about it. I love it so much. That's Marina, guys. That's Marina. We're good. Yes, we want this. I

I would also point out that we're very blessed on this commission. We have people from all different parts of the world. So, if there are ideas from other states or other countries in terms of how to build homes quickly, faster, more efficiently, please today or after the meeting, please share that with staff. We want to we want to make this a collaborative process with the commission and we know other countries do multifamily housing way better than the US does. So yeah, vice chair you're the worry about the trade unions. Mhm.

Um there's several different ways to solve that problem and assuage that concern. And one of them which Marina could encourage is to open up a factory right here. Okay. Here here. I mean they're building little airplanes just down the road here. Here. Okay. And so, uh, even if it was the these modular builders could certainly have modular factories. Exactly. Yes. When they Exactly.

And a modular factory and marina could probably serve a three or 400 mile circle radius. Easy. And I'm glad you brought that up, Commissioner St. Yeah, because when we had the joint meeting with the council about Cypress Nolles, that's what council member McCarthy actually brought that up that if we develop Cypress Nolles and we're trying to also create jobs, we could be an innovator in that way that we could build missing middle housing but also use it as a tool of economic development by partnering with local companies to build the modular units here in the Central Coast. Mhm. So yeah,

and especially if if Marina, you know, gave some considerations for the manufacturer, then when and if he ever finished, and I've not seen a lot of building finished in my lifetime, but anyway, especially here in Marina, but that that would take care of that transportation cost we were talking about, But anyway, there could be consideration that after the factory has outlived its useful life for this whatever the radial area is

that it would revert back to the city and we could have another round two of whatever we the the brain trust. I like what you're thinking. Yeah. And then that manufacturing goes to the next city they need to build. Yeah. I like it too. I I think we're selling uh uh United States. Big problems actually. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Guido and Bryce.

Yeah. So, we heard loud and clear. We got some good input like I said, but if there's other stuff from different parts of the world or just things that you guys hear about that uh you want to share with us, uh we will definitely bring this back probably mid to late in the fall. Um, I need to I need to do a little bit more outreach to the faith-based community here. I haven't gotten too many bites. So, if people have contacts within the faith-based community, I am still trying to work with Bryce on that overlay. Um, so we'll bring both of those back to the commission probably mid to late fall. Um, and then along the same housing lines, I did send to the commission. I am partnering with the VTC to have a big Veterans Day event. Um, originally we were partnering to make it more like a Veterans Day kind of party, but I pushed them and they agreed we're going to have more services for veterans connecting them to different housing uh, opportunities, other wraparound employment, home loan, different type of dental referrals from that event. So, um, if you know of some veterans groups or persons that you think I should invite to the meeting, uh, to the event, it's going to be on Veterans Day at the VTC Center. And on top of that, uh, we do have Kamiko and Bryce on the line. Uh, Rencon helped us. We submitted our proousing designation to the state on August. That was our second time submitting. We submitted the first time and state said we didn't quite make the mark and we worked with Rencon and they kind of helped us beef up the application. So hopefully we'll get the pro housing designation from the state and with that we're eligible for more grant and state funding. So yeah, so thank you to RCON and the city and so

that's all things housing. Um okay, thank you. Thank you again, Bryce. That was that was perfect. I think I think you can see how excited we are for these solutions that you put in front of us. Um and so we are at You're welcome. We're at the um staff and major projects updates. We heard about a little bit of um housing the housing element.

Yeah. Uh so housing stuff we've talked about um within the dunes. The prominade is going like gang busters. There was a big uh car week event at the brass tap. There were about 75 cars out there. Uh Marina Station. They're still moving quite a bit of dirt. Uh within Sea Haven, we're more than halfway done with Sea Haven. And um yeah, so a lot going on. A lot going on. Um I don't Gu you probably are aware of this but the we had a Se Haven HOA board meeting a day or so ago couple this week and it was announced at that meeting it came up as a discussion item and it comes up every meeting. Yeah, I know.

The uh the city park that's it's about a 17 acre plot of land bounded by Men and Marina Heights and and a couple other street. Anyway, that city park, it was announced that the city of Marina has taken over the obligation of that park or the the development of the park.

Funny you should mention that. So, at the next meeting, we are going to be bringing to the commission amending the development agreement we have with the Sea Haven folks so we can take ownership of that project, fasttrack it, and get it done faster. Right. And you actually reminded me, Commissioner St. John, you actually live in Se Haven. Yes, I do. Okay. So, I'll need to verify that you can or cannot vote on that item because depending on how close you are to the park. So, thank you for Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. from here to my car. Oh, is it? Okay. Well, then yeah, you're I'll have to double check with I'll have to double check with the attorneys, but if you're that close, probably have to recuse yourself. So,

but uh for the rest of the commission, we are going to bring that back. We are going to be taking that over getting the funds from the developer, but we have to make an amendment to the Se Haven development agreement. That'll be the only item on the agenda in two weeks. So, we definitely want you guys there. It'll probably be a 30 minute meeting at the most. So that would be September 11th. Okay. So one, two, three, four. So one, two, three, four. I was going to ask if you can um if you wouldn't mind please telling us what the rules are for recusing yourself because I I did it wrong last time and I want to make sure

uh if you're within 500 to 1,000 ft and the attorney's on the phone he could probably answer it better but generally if you're within 500 feet you should recuse yourself. So

go outside. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so Se Haven and uh what else? Working on a lot of ordinance modifications. Uh bringing a shopping cart ordinance to the city council probably in a couple months. We do have some shopping carts around town that we're trying to clean up. And um yeah, just we're very very busy. Oh, SER attorney wanted to comment. There we go. Go ahead, Seth. Hi, everybody. I don't know if you can hear me. Can you hear me?

Yes. Yes. Okay. I don't have a video option evidently, but um but uh yeah, I think the short answer on on potential recusals is just let Guido or Allison know if you have a specific concern and they'll get in touch with me or Renee. Um uh typically me for the planning commission if it seems appropriate. Um uh and I think Guido, I think you all have what what we call conflict maps typically with which show.

Yeah. when commissioners live within a certain radius. Um the 500 and 1,000 foot thing is a little more a little more complicated, not surprisingly. It it's like if you're within 500 it's it's presumed and if it's within a thousand you have to go through a couple more steps, but it's very fact dependent is the is the upshot here. So just get in touch and we can figure it out. Thanks. Thank you, Steph. And that's it for staff announcements. No correspondence. No. All right, then we're at a journment. Thank you. Thank you guys.