Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

We're good. All right. Welcome everyone, uh, to our planning and zoning commission, uh, for Maricopa County. Um, today's August, uh, sorry, Thursday, September 10th, uh, 2026. And we'll go ahead and do roll call.

Here.

Vice chair Hernandez, commissioner Lawrence commissioner, rock wallet here. Commissioner Layton here. Commissioner Finter. Commissioner Dan Zysin. Commissioner Dan Zysin. Commissioner Lindblom.

Here.

Commissioner Whitney.

Here.

Commissioner Tomah.

Here.

Chairman, we have a quorum.

Wonderful. Yeah, we have Chair Millhaven on the call, but I'll go ahead and run the meeting today because I'm here in person. So let's do our public notice.

This meeting has been noticed in accordance with open meeting law ARS 38-431. Agendas are available within 24 hours of each meeting in the Maricopa County Planning and Development Office and are also available on the Planning and Development website one week prior to hearing at www.maricopa.gov slash planning. With respect to the hearing process cases will be considered in the order they appear on the agenda unless otherwise agreed to by the board. For each case the applicant will be given a set amount of time to present their testimony any witness wishing to give testimony on a particular case shall notify the board of such interest. This shall be done by filling out a speaker's card for in-person attendance or registering desire to comment as noticed on the published agenda. Also at the appropriate time for each case, the chair will ask those attending in-person and online who wish to speak to a case to raise their hand by clicking on that icon on the webinar screen. Staff will provide the chair with the names of the persons who have registered noted desire to comment and those registered participants who have raised their hand. The chair will call on each named participant one at a time. Such testimony shall be limited to a maximum of three minutes. However, the actual amount of time allowed for testimony shall be at the discretion of the board chair. The chair will conduct the hybrid in-person and virtual public hearings according to the bylaws. and according to the rules established by the chair regarding public comment. Votes will be done by rule call only vote. The chair will verbally identify the specific members responsible for all motions and seconds.

All right. We'll go ahead and look at the minutes for July 23rd, 2026. If there's no comments about those, we'll just enter them into the record. And we'll go ahead and start with our consent agenda. Staff would like to present that.

Yes, acting chair, commissioners, there are seven items on consent. They are SU250043, known as Shadow Country Police in District 5. It's a special use permit for a shooting range in the rural 190 zoning district on a 40 gross acre site southeast of the southeast corner of Vico Valley Road and I-8 in the South County. There is no known opposition. The recommendation is for approval subject to conditions A through P in paragraph 13. Next two items are related. They are CPA 260005 and C260008, known as Hacienda Distribution Center. District 4 is a comprehensive plan amendment to the Tonopah Arlington Area Plan, designating the site for light industrial and a related zone change. to Industrial II IUPD for 73 acres east of the southeast corner of 339th Avenue and Roosevelt in the Tonopah area. There's no known opposition. The recommendations are for approval of the CPA in paragraph 22 and approval of the rezoning subject conditions A through I in paragraph 23. Fourth item is SU 260012, known as Meridian Castle, Meridian Crown Castle. It's in District 2. It's a modification to a special use for a wireless communication facility in the C2 zoning district south of the southwest corner of Meridian Road and Apache Trail in the East Mesa area. There's no known opposition. Recommendation in paragraph 11 is for approval of conditions A through L. I had phones on. Z260019, known as Wickenburg ILA in District 4, is a special use permit for a fiber optic utility compound in the rural 190 zoning district at the southwest corner of Four Paw Peak Road and the Arizona and California Railroad. There is no known opposition. The recommendation in paragraph 13 is for approval subject to conditions A through I. The sixth item is Z260021, known as Dynamite Farms in District 4, It's a C2CPDWHSC rezoning for two and a half acres northwest of 211th Avenue and Grand Avenue in the Whitman area. There is no known opposition. The recommendation in paragraph 22 is for approval subject to conditions A through J. And finally, Z260023, known as Perryville Industrial. in District 5, industrial 2 IUPD rezoning for 19.4 acres south of the southeast corner of Broadway and Perryville Road in the Goodyear area. Again, no known opposition or recommendation. In paragraph 22, it's for approval, subject to conditions A through I. Happy to answer any questions you may have.

Are there any questions for Mr. Gerard at this time from the commission? Hearing none, we can discuss as a commission. We'll entertain a motion.

Mr. Acting Chair.

Yeah, go ahead.

Hi, it's Commissioner Whitney. I would move approval of the consent agenda as presented.

Thank you, Commissioner Whitney, for saying who you are. I was a little puzzled for a second, but we got you. We have a motion by Commissioner Whitney to approve. And do we have a second?

I'll second.

And a second by Commissioner Walkawalk. Let's go ahead and do a vote.

Commissioner Denzeisen? Commissioner Layton?

Yes.

Acting Chair Lum-Lum?

Yes.

Chair Mulhaven?

Yes.

Yes.

Commissioner Rockwally?

Yes.

Commissioner Tomah? Commissioner Tomah? Commissioner Whitney?

Yes.

Chairman, we have a motion recommending approval of the consent agenda by a vote of six to zero.

All right, thank you. And thank you for everyone working to get those projects to a point that we could do a consent agenda. And thank you for those that came today on those cases. We'll go ahead and move forward to the regular agenda. Case number SU24005, the Cielo by Legends. Mr. Lawrence, are you presenting on that? Yes. All right, awesome.

Thank you, acting chair and members of the commission. SU240005 is a request for a special use permit for a wedding and events venue on approximately 4.6 acres, located approximately at the southeast corner of 38th Avenue and Carver Road in the Levine, South Phoenix area. The applicant is requesting to utilize the parcel for weddings and events. The site is slated to utilize the existing home structure and existing unpermitted event structure. The provided site plan has parking availability for 72 spaces and four ADA spaces provided. The site is accessed via a series of private unpaved easements on 38th Avenue. The roadway serves the immediate neighborhood of 26 parcels and is not currently in a state that meets MAG roadway development standards for commercial use. A zoning violation was opened on December 14th, 2021 due to citizen complaints regarding the wedding venue operation, construction and grading without a permit. The application was submitted in July of 2024. The county's comprehensive plan designates the county island in the South Phoenix area as an area of municipal and urban influence. The city of Phoenix serves water to the area, thus there is potential for an urban level of services and urban intensity uses. However, the subject site is served with water via shared well and wastewater via onsite septic system. At the time of staff report printing, staff has received eight letters of opposition, including every parcel directly connecting to the subject parcel. A singular letter of support has been received from an elected official who does not reside in the direct neighborhood. It is staff's understanding that the applicant has provided 31 additional support letters at the last minute that were not able to be cataloged for this hearing. The applicant has previously requested a continuance from the June 11th hearing to work with neighbors on well and site access. During that time, staff did not receive any additional documentation from the applicant, and they remained essentially silent, not providing any additional information. Despite requests, the applicant did not provide additional notification supplies or update the hearing signs. Staff sent out new postcards without the applicant's assistance. Staff is very concerned with public safety and has requested many times that the applicant seek documentation from the local fire agency that the site and access is suitable for public occupancy. Staff is concerned that the bridge at the intersection of 38th Avenue and Carver is not suitable for emergency services. The site is served by a shared well and staff has additional concerns that have demonstrated fire suppression ability. Staff is recommending denial of SU 240005. Should the board find merit in the application, staff offers conditions A through N for consideration, which would limit the SUP for five years, limit events to Friday through Sunday, 8 a.m. to 10 p.m., limit lighting to 10 p.m., limit outside noise to 55 decibels, dustproofing of 38th Avenue and requiring all unpermitted construction and grading to be resolved prior to operation. Thank you very much. At this time, I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

All right. Let's go ahead and jump to Commissioner Rockwallet for questions.

You mentioned and then held up a display that every parcel surrounding this parcel has signed a letter of opposition. The City of Phoenix owns the parcels to the south and to the east. Have they signed a letter of opposition?

Yes. The parcels to the south are privately owned, actually. The owner did provide two letters of opposition. He provided an original letter and then reinstated his original opposition.

And to the east, those are privately owned as well?

Yes. It's all one parcel, the south and to the east.

Understood. And you said you received a letter from an elected official to support the item? Correct. The letter was from a state representative. Understood. On the image that we see here, this bridge at Carver and 38th Avenue, you indicated concerns about emergency vehicles being able to cross it. Do we not have those concerns now for the residents that live opposite of this canal?

yes the the we do have those concerns as as the bridge exists today additional use of the property would require additional um it would require additional consideration um for emergency services um the the roadway that exists today is a private easement and so the county has not accepted it or maintained it in any way no i yeah i understand the road um i guess i i'm concerned that the county's planning staff is expressing concern over the

outside of this case, concern over the viability of this bridge for emergency services. And we've got 26 residential parcels that have to use this road for emergency purposes.

Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Rockwallach, the concern is increasing the zoning entitlement and the expected crowds and increased call rate that may be that may come from emergency services staff is opposed to a public assembly use on a dead end local street that's unimproved that serves 26 lots in general i understand i just want to make sure that if we're expressing concern for emergency vehicle usage on this bridge that for the residents that live there that we would take care of that but that's all i have thank you

Thank you. And that's outside of our purview, I think.

Yeah. Other questions by the Commission? All right. We'll hear from the applicant if they're here and would like to present on their case. Guys, come up to that microphone there. No, no problem. Don't be nervous. We don't bite.

Hi, good morning. My name is Vanessa Montes and I am the applicant for the property. What Cielo is, is a four plus acre property. And what we have done there is for the last couple of years, It's a property that we use for family gatherings. I've been accused prior that I have been having weddings and last hearing I was here, they presented photos of me having a gender reveal there, photos of me having an appreciation dinner for first responders that I haven't charged any kind of income for. The thing here is that I feel that The neighborhood is judging based on other things before any of these residents live there and they build their custom homes. They would drive up to our property and tell us to turn the volume down of our TV because we were watching a boxing match, for example, with our family. And they would point fingers to us telling us, turn your volume down when they were just building out. They didn't even live there. This is a kind of animosity that we've been facing since the beginning. We've had the property since 2021. I don't live there. That's not my primary residence. My son lived there for a couple of months while he was in college. Right now, my father lives there. He's in a transition of moving homes. I donate the property for church gatherings because the parish that we work with doesn't have enough space, so sometimes they have masks there, and the police has been called for that. I support our community. We've done gatherings there, for example, the Latino Caucus meetings we've done. And this isn't something new. I have a trajectory over 14 years that I have been working with community with my other events center. So for me, it's not something that it's just something innate that I've learned from my parents that I, you know, I like to be part of the community. I like to serve. I'm part of the Hispanic advocacy board for the Phoenix police. So when I show letters of support, and that's because I'm a mother of seven and I have other businesses that I run, I could fill up this room if I wanted to, thank God, because I have so much support from so much community. The thing that stands against me is that I do not have all the time in the world. And with this being said, I would like to ask for a continuance hearing because I With having this micro wedding venue, I came to the realization that I do not need to apply or ask for 150 guests for these weddings. Micro wedding venues serve about 50 to 80 guests, which would limit the parking by about half instead of 80 parking spaces, roughly, we would be requesting permission for 40. And so I also would like to speak to my land use attorney regarding the shared well agreement that we have on file. And with the next hearing, we can have more of our due diligence with regards to that and the neighbors. Like I said, there's two people that live on the property right now, which is my father and his wife. We don't use, the water usage there is practically none because these kind of weddings are more seasonal. They're not all year round. They're very small, intimate weddings. We've also done events such as sound healing. We've done Earth Day celebrations. We've done very holistic, very beautiful events there. When I received the property, I felt like it was meant to be shared. And this is me speaking from the heart. It's a beautiful property. And I would like to share with the city and have really beautiful memories for everybody there that can that I even I've opened it up to the neighbors. I said, if you guys need it for some gathering, it's there. I have it as an Airbnb right now to help me with the expenses, but I had to stop that because now my dad needs to live there for about a few weeks and so For me, it's more so that I would like a continuance to modify the occupant load to half and come to an agreement with the neighbors. If I need to build my own well, I would. And that's where I stand right now with the project.

Could I ask a question? This has been continued from June 11th and then July 23rd, and we're now in September. So

Yeah.

What, what, why, why another continuance? Like what, what has prevented you from doing all these things between now and then?

My husband had heart surgery in July and the recovery and he had, that's what's prevented me from that.

I'd be open to some thoughts on this. Mr. Gerard.

Mr. Chair, commissioners, I will note any activity that has occurred or is occurring other than the single family residence or short-term rental as a single family residence is part of the zoning violation. The parking area grading is unpermitted. the renovation of the large outbuilding for public assembly is unpermitted. So there should not be any church or public assembly or non or charitable events occurring on site.

To the applicant, do you have events planned in the next 60 days?

No, we don't have events. No events. No events.

And Mr. Chair, I should say I do believe there's people here to speak today.

Yeah. I think where my brain goes on this is we certainly that the inactivity is concerning to me, not doing anything from that continuance till now at all not updating postings. A special use permit is a permit that is granted because you're wanting to do something that's a little bit outside of the normal zoning that's allowed and it's really done in a way to to Create an environment where you know you have public private you have you have private property rights, but so do your neighbors as well. They want to enjoy that property for their homes. What I'm not hearing from you and why I'm a little hesitant to continue is what steps you will take to continue to make sure that they don't have to say, turn up your TV. We grant these and we deny these wedding venues at this body, but it's after we've listen to the neighbors after we've listened to the applicant and you've worked well together to come up with it's usually approved when there's a it's it's done in a way where we have a lot of confidence that you're not going to interrupt those that are around you in a way like because it's not the events you're talking about that are just Chris Wanner, Community events that you're not charging for these are for profit events and it becomes more of a commercial in nature right it's outside of the normal of what a residential home would be. Chris Wanner, I I actually. Chris Wanner, don't really want to grant a continuance today we have the Chair on the call, I would love to hear her position this she's in charge today.

I'm not. Hi, this is Chair Milhaven. I'm not in charge today, but I do have some thoughts. It seems to me that there are fairly significant concerns about this site and that even limiting it to fewer persons really don't address, get to the core of the concerns. And so I would not be inclined to granted continuance at this time.

Yeah. So I, I'm going to make that decision and not grant a continuance today. What I would like to ask you to do as you're presenting right now is to really focus on how the activities, because what we're going to do is we're going to listen to you, then we're going to listen to the neighbors, and then we're going to come back to you after we've heard from them, and then we'll talk as a group and we'll make a decision. So what I would like you to do right now for the next couple minutes is just talk about

how you intend to operate in a way that it will not impact the neighbors because i didn't really hear that in your initial presentation is that and and acting chair i think i would also like to better understand um how you intend to work with your neighbors and their private easements along 38th avenue i mean that road needs to be dust proof and it's a dirt road and so increased traffic whether from 100 parking spots or 160 parking spots down to 80 or 40, excuse me, 80 parking spots down to 40. I grew up on a dirt road. That's a lot of dust. And you've got a lot of road coverage from Carver all the way down to your property. So I'd want to learn about that as well.

So, for example, in a case we've approved in the past, we agreed that there would not be decibel beyond a certain amount that's heard beyond the property, or there's a limitation in hours or timeframe. If you could just answer that question for me, because we're not going to grant a continuance today. We'll make a decision today. What I, yeah, I'd just like to hear how, how will you make sure you are a good neighbor to the neighbors that your events that you do for profit for money do not impact them in a negative way.

Okay, the property that I'm implying for the wedding reception is an indoor. wedding reception area so it would not be outdoor we would not have amplified music we would have only dj and then all the doors obviously it's indoors so it's not going to be where the and we've we've done um with personal parties we've done decibel readings and you cannot hear anything down the street Regardless of that, my neighbors have called the police when I've had my parties. They've gone up there with armed guns threatening me. And so it's hard to work with neighbors when they have a gun and their hand on the gun. And to me, it's a safety concern with some of them. As far as me doing my due diligence for the shared well agreement, I am planning on hiring a land use attorney to do all those traffic studies to do the shared well agreement study. It's very expensive. I know another venue who paid a quarter of a million dollars for seven years trying to get their use permits through the county. So I don't have that kind of money right now to spend a quarter of a million dollars on a land use attorney, but I do plan on hiring one. I do plan on having community meetings to meet with them. And like I said, I want to have more so the ceremonies and before 10 PM restrict them to only weekends. It's very seasonal, it's not year round. These are very exclusive weddings where it's gonna be 50 to 75 guests at the most. I'm not planning on having big events there. As far as the dirt road, we are planning on maintaining the road. Every weekend before the events, we can water the road. There's a chip and seal right now that one of the neighbors I believe, I'm not sure, they came to some kind of agreement when Carver was being modified and all the chip and seal was placed on our road. As far as maintaining the road, that would be my concern as well, that the neighbors do not have the dust. We're projecting about 50 to 80 guests. The city of Phoenix has an analysis when I've done my other venue of 2.5 people per car. So that's about 30 to 50 cars at the most with staff included going through that road at alternate times. It's not all at once. It's staggered. So a 4.2 acre property that can hold 40 to 50 cars, I think is doable. As far as the noise, like I said, it'd be indoor, no amplified music, no bands, nothing like that. Am I missing any other thing? I also wanted to, when Andrew was saying about the letters, we also have a letter of an elected official, which is Senator Catherine Miranda. She's the state senator that represents our district there. So I thought that was important that I also have her support. And he omitted that. I turned in those letters yesterday. What else am I not?

Is there anything else that... We'll give you time to respond to the neighbors' comments as well.

Thank you.

Thank you. Any other questions at this time for the afternoon? All right. Thank you. We'll have you come back up afterwards.

Thank you.

Let's go ahead and hear from the public on this case. Do we have online?

So we do one person? One person. So far, yes.

Let's go ahead and listen to that person first and then we'll go on.

Gotcha. Okay.

That's okay.

Hello, my name is Bianca Cano. I don't know if it's me that's supposed to be speaking.

Not quite yet, Bianca. We'll get to you in just a second. We're going to go online. There's some people that call in. So I'll call you up. Did you fill out a card, Bianca? Yeah, I have yours right here. We'll get to that. Thank you. You need some time to figure that out. I do. Sorry. We'll jump to in person. So I'll just go in order here of how I have them. We'll start with Ernest Montoya. And just please just state your name. We don't require you to give your address or anything like that, but if you do like to identify how close you are, that always helps us to understand the impacts to you. Okay. And then try to limit your comments to just two minutes.

Okay. I'll try my best. Again, my name is Ernie. My last name is Montoya. I live in Cayapoco. My property butts up against Vanessa's property. She made some points with regards to parties. I have been there. I've called the cops or the sheriff's department numerous amount of times. And I have videos here, two o'clock, three o'clock in the morning. I have to work in the morning, okay? So I need my sleep. Here I am dealing with the cops, law enforcement, three o'clock in the morning. Come on, you know? So, and she says that this stuff's not amplified. I can show you I have I have a video. I can hear and what she fails to realize is that when they open up that little shed because they converted it, when they open up the big doors, it bounces off the houses because we're in the valley. We have South Mountain. We have another mountain in front. So it bounces and echoes. And my mom and dad, their bedroom is directly where it comes down. So I have my elderly parents. They're in their 70s. that they went there to retire simply for lack of traffic, noise, and everything else. So I feel for them. My father's a pastor. He does deliver sermons Sunday morning. That also prevents him from really focusing on God's work. So again, as far as that... And he does have proof going back to when they bought the property. My father has emailed her, texted her. I don't know how many times saying, hey, can you turn the music down? Can you turn the music down? Can you turn the music down? I went up there personally. I did have my gun. Three people came up. I was chatting with them. And I'll stop. Another three people came up. Guy was drunk. And I just lifted up my shirt. I said, what do you want to do? Because they were coming after me. I feared for my life. So again, that's the last time I went up there. All I do now is just call the cops. So also the roads. And then as far as our concern, we have water. And like I said, it's just a noise issue for us. We don't know how many people are coming in. If they're criminals, pedophiles, and everything else, they leave trash down our road. And, you know, it's just, it's a very inconvenient situation, not only for my parents, but for all entire residents along Carver and 38th Avenue. All right, thank you. That helps us understand the environment.

Vanessa Montes. Oh, sorry. That is you. Yes. I'm a little slow sometimes. We're not going to call you back up yet. Eric, is it Baum? Thank you. Thanks for coming here today.

My name is Eric Bame. I live actually, my wife and two kids, we live right next to them. There's a shared easement in front of our house that all the cars drive right down our easement. So we get everyone parking in our drive, coming in our drive, thinking that our house is the venue. We've had numerous people come pull through our driveway, which isn't that big a deal, but it's disruption. The continuous disruption from the cars, the noise, being that the property is up high. Like Ernie said, the noise travels. They don't realize how far the noise travels. We have neighbors that are a quarter mile away that can hear it. One of the big things is she says she's been in contact with the community, all this stuff. She had one meeting before some of these other hearings were supposed to happen. I think it was a... like a requirement to get to where she needed to get to. She did not attend. She sent someone to represent her, which I thought was pretty, you know, you're trying to do this and you can't even attend. Her communication has been horrible with the community. There has been very little, what I would consider good neighborly conduct on her part. The road is, there's actually a agreement, it's an easy, I don't know what, it's a declaration of restriction that requires them to maintain the road, which they have never done. We as a community got together and said, okay, let's do something because this road is getting bad. We got materials, had it graded out. She never offered to pay for anything or even help. So it's just her lack of interest in being a good neighbor has just continually been noted.

Yeah, and just you're in the bottom left corner.

I am the bottom left, yeah. Okay, I understand that drive that you're talking about. Thank you. And also, like you said, the trash. It's just every time there's a party, there's trash up and down the road, people speeding out of there. Like I said, it's a gravel road. We get a lot of dirt and dust, and it's not good.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Let's go to Mark Dapcevich. Mr. Dapcevich. Mark? Oh, sorry. Yep, that's right. It says number nine right there. Yeah, you got an opinion. Thank you. We'll go Suzanne Kingston. Thank you. Okay, we'll go right after this one if you're queued up.

Good morning. My name is Suzanne Kingston. I wasn't planning on speaking because that's not my thing, but I feel very passionate about this. I live at the top of the road, also right across from her. I share the well with her. I lived on this road for 19 years. When I first moved there, there was three houses total. Now there's 26 parcels. We didn't move there to have traffic going up and down our road to have a venue. I appreciate the work that you do for the community, but I don't want it done on my road. I don't want the traffic going up and down the road. I don't want the trash. I don't want the noise. There is something about in the mountain. You can be in wherever you are and measure the sound, but when you're outside the way the sound travels, it's loud. And if you want to restrict it to Friday and Saturday nights or the weekends, those are my weekends. Those are for my family. Do you want, I mean, you have to ask yourselves, do you want that on your road? Would you want people going up and down your road, having parties, having venues, having traffic? When we live on a dirt road, I live in the middle of nowhere for a reason. And that's not to have a wedding venue. I really hope you consider what the neighbors want. I really hope that you listen to what we have to say. We've been there longer than anybody. That's all I have to say.

Thank you. And we do listen. So appreciate that. I did that to you twice sorry, but yeah, let's go online and then you can then you're on.

We have Brian Peltzer on the phone for you.

Thank you.

Mr. Peltzer, you can speak.

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, my name is Brian Peltzer. I live at 3725 West Fox Road. I'm just north of this site. You mentioned about continuance and how long this has taken. I want to just point out that this is SU24. Presumably, this started in 2024. Here we are, third quarter of 26. But regardless, I strongly believe that the commercial event venue is fundamentally incompatible with this rural residential neighborhood. It is equally important to understand how we arrived here. This began with the owner attempting to operate an event venue under the radar without appropriate Large parties were held on the property. Beer bottles and trash were left throughout the neighborhood. And law enforcement has repeatedly been called for loud music and noise continuing late into the night and early morning, even on weekdays. I know this for a fact. I've talked to them myself. When neighbors complained when the county became involved, the applicant initially denied, including under oath during enforcement proceedings, the property was being operated as a commercial business. She eventually relented on that and admitted it. When this position could no longer be maintained, her strategy changed and shifted to delay. Continuances followed while development of this property has continued. And that continued development raises serious safety concerns. The pre-engineered metal building has been modified without engineering or permitting, is being used for large gatherings without adequate fire and life safety protections. During one of the meetings that she had us up there, several of us noted there are zero fire signs showing where emergency egress is. There's no sprinklers, nothing. The grading and drainage modifications that have been performed on the property have continued based upon conceptual plans that you have before you without any engineering, without any civil drainage design, without any grading and drainage plans. These could potentially affect properties downstream. One thing I'll point out, there is or has been a metal culvert or concrete culvert installed in that wash you see running through the northeast corner of the property. She was cited for that this morning. That notice is on the gate up at the property. None of these plans were submitted for development. None of them bear an engineering seal. Nothing was constructed or modified for this commercial use that has been used to date. This is not a paperwork issue. We're talking about structural safety, fire protection, drainage, and the safety of guests and neighboring property owners. This commercial use is incompatible with the neighborhood. A single property owner is reaping the entire financial benefit while the surrounding community bears the consequences of traffic, noise, dust, trash, drainage, flooding, a loss of the quiet rural character of the neighborhood. The board should not legitimize a pattern of developing first, delaying enforcement, and asking permission afterwards. You have an ethical obligation to protect this community and enforce the county standards. I respectfully ask you to deny SU 240005 and halt further development until the required permits and engineering are in place. Thank you.

Thank you, appreciate that. All right, now Ms. Bianca Cano.

Hello, my name is Bianca Cano. I came with letters of support from the church community. We have a letter from the like the lead, I don't know the, yeah, the leader. And he was saying that there's around 200 individuals that had been positively affected by Vanessa having this, this house, you know, like she's like she mentioned, she allows the church to come in and hold masses. And she was right, you know, the neighbors do complain over any little thing, because one time, they were having a mass and the police did come up. And as soon as the police came to the came to the door, they saw the priest and turned right back around, you know, because it is a gathering for, you know, the church community. And I actually have 227 letters or one letter representing 200 and the other with 27 signatures petitioning the support of this. And then there has been, I did talk to a neighbor one time about the noise complaint and he lives like a little bit to the, to the east, and he says that he couldn't hear the noise from inside his home. It's when he stepped into his backyard. So when he's inside, it's fine, you know, but obviously I don't live there. That's just going off of his words. And then there has been notice of the hearing. It's posted on the gate and the front and the street on Carver Road. showing the days of the notice. So that's it. I don't know if you want these letters of support or not.

Have they been submitted? They're right here. You can give them. Do we need them? We can give them to staff.

Okay.

Thank you for your time. Thank you. All right.

At this time, we'll... Chairman, we have one more raised hand, actually.

Okay. Let's hear it. Okay. hear them not it.

So we have one sec. David White.

Mr. White. Welcome to planning and zoning.

His mic and him to unmute on his end if he's still interested in speaking.

Mr. White. Yes. Hello. Hello. Glad you're here. Good. Limited to a couple minutes. Glad you're here. Would love to hear your thoughts on this case.

Thank you. And my apology for the delay learning the new program here.

But I wanted to say I've been on that side before, too. It's tough sometimes. Yeah.

Yeah. And my thumb's a little big, so I couldn't quite hit the right button, I think. But I want to thank everybody for being here. The PMC and also the applicant for coming. It has been some time here that we were hoping to hear this. And I did turn in a detailed letter, so I won't regurgitate that. But in talking to a longtime landowner that owns a lot of the surrounding property on the south and east, Gerritsen, they have about 65 acres. And the people that are here today in opposition, to me, that looks like there's somewhere around 80 acres or so and almost a 20 to 1 acreage value in opposition. And we own land that's within 44 feet of the property. And the reasons in the letters are compelling. They range from safety to nuisance and noise and track record. But there was something else that PNZ in Maricopa County has done because wedding venues, they're needed service, but it's commercial. And this is just not the location, a dead end street, unpaved road. It's not the right location for it. And there was a case number Z2022077 that I understand that was approved a couple of years ago. And that was for a wedding venue not far away in the Levine Village in an appropriate area where there's commercial and a lot of traffic and fire service over by 27th Avenue and Baseline. That's the kind of location that deserves commercial use, not our neighborhood. So we'd appreciate as well as the other owners to deny the special use permit, please, because it's just not appropriate. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. White. Appreciate your comments. All right. At this time, we'll call Mrs. Montes back up. After hearing these neighbors, if you want to respond to any of that, we'll give you three minutes to do that.

Okay, yeah. For the last couple of years, it's been a little difficult for me, I will have to admit, to pay my full attention to the project. because of personal issues with health issues with my close family, right here and right now, I wanna speak to them and I want them to get to know me better. I would like to work with them and come to some kind of mutual agreement. As far as the signage goes that we've posted, There's been a lot of animosity, which has also scared me away from trying to talk to you guys. Because the reason I didn't go to the community meeting, I was afraid. After being threatened by this gentleman over here various times. There's a police report regarding one of the instances. You know, for me, being a mother is priority and I don't want to lose my life over trying to get a business going. And that's what's halted me at sometimes because I, you do intimidate me. There's been instances where we've posted these signages on the roads and they've been torn down multiple times. Not once, not twice, multiple times. We post these signs for the Maricopa County hearings and they disappear. It's hard to work with neighbors when they don't want to work with you. And so for me right now, I want to work with my team. I want to work with a land use attorney. We have provided grading and drainage We have had engineers, you guys have that in record. You guys, we've turned that over. We have had work with the architect regarding structural and those are also turned in. They have not been approved, but we are working on that. And I do understand that that has to be permitted before we start any events. And I'm not opposed to that. I want to work with the community. I want to work with the road. I want to, having a shared well, I can build my own well. We don't use a lot of water. We don't live on the property. And if we go to the property, it's once or twice a week. Regarding soundproofing the venue, I would also work on soundproofing the venue, working with them, testing the sound of the DJ. Having the DJ, I would be present the first year of operations there to make sure that there's no issues. We would have a team cleaning after, making sure the roads, that there's no trash after the roads. We would have security guards making sure that people are not destroying the roads, throwing bottles, anything like that. I've run a venue for 14 years and I've been very successful at it. And which is, Okay, and that is why I have a lot of support because I think it speaks on my character. They don't know me. I would like for them to get to know me a little bit better before they come. And, you know, deny this use permit. And we can work towards something where we can get these buildings permitted, the roads make an agreement and the shared well come to an agreement and then have a continuance with regarding the use permit. I would really appreciate another opportunity.

Thank you. Questions? okay thank you thank you we're going to go ahead and close public comment part so at this point we'll talk as a commission and then we'll make a decision so this is usually a part where like sometimes the neighbors yell at us or something but we don't do that seem like a very real very good so let's go ahead and discuss as a as a commission this case I'll start with my overall thoughts. The burden of a special use permit to me is on the applicant to show that they can conduct themselves in a way to not really impact the neighbors in a heavily adverse way. Although in the conditions, there's several things that the applicants agreed to like Only going till 10 PM, only on a couple nights, decibels at 55 at the neighbor, at the perimeter. I have concerns around just the actions up to this point and whether that would even be followed. And I lean towards denial of this case. But the road issue, the way that People would literally be driving right in front on, you know, it was in the corner there on the picture earlier. Those are just my overall thoughts. Would you be interested in hearing others?

I also have concerns over the increased traffic along 38th Avenue. I appreciate the applicant's willingness to water the road on the days that they have an event. But having grown up on a dirt road, commercial use is going to take more than just a little bit of water to really dustproof the surface. And I'm not sure the applicant fully understands the cost that it would take to go from the dead end all the way up to Carver or 38th Avenue to ensure complete and total dustproof. Additionally, I'm not sure how you have music that isn't amplified. I think all music has to go through speakers, which by definition is an amplification. So I have concerns there too with being able to follow that. I would be inclined to follow your lead on that one.

Any other thoughts by the Commission? I do have a question for staff. When we talk about the congregation meeting, that's allowed outside of a special use permit if it's not for money. Give me some clarity on what would be allowed and not allowed with their home if this permit's denied.

Mr. Chairman, commissioners, A church or house of worship is a permitted use in all the rural and residential zoning districts. However, it does require a commercial building permit for public assembly occupancy and not a residential permit, which is what all the structures on site are subject to the ones that are permitted. So there is no authorization for public assembly occupancy on the property.

So I'll give an example. I'm a member of my church and I work with the youth and I have them come to my house on a Wednesday night and they play basketball. That would be a permitted use. Or am I in violation?

Mr. Chairman, our stance on that has been that invitation only, no advertisement, no monetary transaction is a personal private activity, not a commercial activity.

Yeah. And why I asked this question is I hold political fundraisers at my home and those types of things, political events. So really, you know, should this be denied? I do want there an understanding of the applicant to even know what they can and can't do and the neighbors to understand what they can and can't do and, you know, those types of things as well. And that's partly why I asked that question. Thank you. If no other questions, I'll entertain a motion. I make a motion to deny SU 240005. All right, we have a motion to deny by Commissioner Rothwalek. Do we have a second?

This is Commissioner Thoma. I'll second.

A second by Commissioner Thoma. Let's do a roll call vote.

Commissioner Dan Zysen. Commissioner Dan Zysen. Commissioner Layton.

I agree with the motion as expressed.

Acting Chair Lindblom.

Yes.

Chair Milhaven. Yes. Commissioner Rockwally?

Yes, please. To the applicant, this is not the end. You mentioned that you are interested in picking up or contacting a zoning attorney. I would encourage you to do so. You have another step between here and now. With that, I vote aye.

yeah and thank you and and uh that is uh it's something to remember is we're making a recommendation to the board of supervisors um should you be able to uh do work between now and then with the neighbors and and get everybody happy like maybe you could still pull that off uh did we commission commissioner dan dyson commissioner thoma

I vote to deny the SBU.

Commissioner Whitney?

Yes.

Commissioner Dan Zaison?

Yes.

Chairman, we have a motion recommending a denial by a vote of seven to zero.

Thank you. And thank you to all of those that came today. We do listen and really try to understand. the cases. We're all volunteers here that have been appointed, and a lot of us have lived in similar situations like you have, so we try to get it right. Thank you, and we wish the best of each of you, and hope that you can figure out a way to be great neighbors with each other. So thank you. With that, we'll move on to case number SU24007, Wrangler's Roost. Mr. Lawrenson, you can present on that as well.

Thank you, Acting Chair and members of the Commission. SU 240007 is a request for a special use permit for a wedding and events venue on approximately 1.7 acres located on the north side of New River Road in the New River area of Supervisor District 3. The site known as Wrangler's Roost is a former stagecoach stop from territorial days and then transforming into a dude ranch with evening programming hookouts from 1986 until the mid-90s. The parcel is subject to violations dating back to 2019 for operations of a commercial venue business. The application requests use of the parcel to lease to individuals to hold events in a manner they see fit, as opposed to a full-service banquet-style operation. All portions of events are to be held outdoors, including any potential music and or dancing. A new bathroom casita is proposed to accommodate the site. In an attempt to standardize neighbor expectations of the operations, the staff has drafted potential conditions of approval to mitigate known issues arising from the venue operation, including limiting events to weekends only, Friday through Saturday, 8 to 11 p.m. Bistro-style lighting must not exceed 1,000 lumens and must be shut off by 11 p.m. No noise exceeding 65 decibels at the property lines. And finally, occupancy is limited to 100 persons on site at any time. Staff has received both letters of support and opposition from members of the community. At this time, staff have received letters of opposition representing 13 parcels who are opposed to the proposal. Staff has also received letters from persons representing 43 parcels in support of the request. Staff would like to note that of the 43 parcels in support, 14 parcels are tied to known supports from the applicant interest. All parcels within 300 feet of the subject site are either owned or have financial interest by the applicant. Staff supports the request with adherence to conditions of approval and recommends the Commission adopt a motion of recommendation of approval to the Board of Supervisors with adherence to conditions A through R. Thank you very much. I would be happy to answer any questions you have. Any questions for Mr. Lawson?

Acting Chair, I have a question.

All right.

All right.

I'm sorry.

This is Commissioner Milhaven. Sorry. My apology. On paragraph 18, you say 55 decibels, but in condition 23H, you say 65. Mr. Chair,

And Madam chair, that is a typo in the staff report. The recommendation includes a condition for a maximum of 65 decimal.

Thank you just wanted to be clear.

All right, let's go ahead and hear from the applicant. They're here.

Mr. Chair, members of the board, I'm Reed Stewart. By way of review, since I was here last, my wife and I have lived at Wrangler's Roost for the past 17 years with most of our seven children and 18 grandchildren. And I think we can comply with all of the county conditions except the 65 decibel. Last time I was here, I asked if we could be subject to the existing County Noise Ordinance, and I'm still asking for that today.

Let me, help me understand that question again. What are you asking for?

We'd like to be subject to the existing County Noise Ordinance.

Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, what that means is he's asking to allow, the County Noise Ordinance simply says the responding officer has discretion to determine if the noise emanated is customarily what is expected from that type of land use.

Okay, thank you. Is that everything? Okay, is there any questions for the applicant at this time? Anyone on the call? All right, thank you. We'll let you come up as well just as we did before if you want to at the end. Let's go ahead and hear from Mr. Mark Gapcevich. All right. All right. I did something right today.

Before you start that clock, I'd like to ask for a little latitude on time since I was not, did not have an opportunity to speak last time. I'm speaking on behalf of others as well as myself. And a fair amount of time will be spent clarifying the staff.

Let me just check on one thing. What was your leave time? All right. Okay, we'll give you four minutes. Okay, I'll do my best. And we won't start it till you get back up.

All right, thank you for the opportunity. I want to address the process a little bit. I'm not real happy with the planning staff here. They had the opportunity to expand the CPP area and they did not. They stuck with the absolute minimum of 300 feet within the boundaries. And as reference is under controlled by the applicant themselves. This is the last notice that I received. It was for the June 11th hearing. So I suspect that I'm not the only one who hasn't been kept up to date on the hearings. I'd like to clarify that this report does say 43 letters of support and 13 opposition. There are actually only 27 letters. I've asked Mr. Girard and he has said that all of the letters are in the report. If you vet them by people that don't live in the area, meaning a mile or more, duplicate letters, i.e. the same person writing the same letter twice, and the the ones that he referenced for the people that are there, you come down with six letters of support. And if you look at the, and I've asked staff to vet that, and they say they don't. So I mean, no criticism there, but I have addressed that with staff. So using the same criteria, there's 13 in support and staff did lose a letter from Naaman West, which would make 14 in support. The nature of the area obviously is much similar to the last applicant. that you heard is rural, RU 43. The one home per acre, the closest commercial business is a mile and a half away. No streetlights, no stoplights. Maximum speed is 45. It's very low density. The closest thing to a commercial operation before you get to commercial property is a church and a Daisy Mountain Fire Department subdivision. So the nature of the proposal is obviously very commercial. held outside, DJs, music, and that is a problem for many of the people there. I'd like to talk about the lights. You guys haven't seen the lights. This is what it looked like. This is what you guys would be approving by allowing the unshielded lights and by allowing the height of 30 feet. That's page 103. I didn't realize everybody was going to be on the phone, but that's page 103 of your staff report. if you'd like to see that. The purpose of having the unshielded lights, well, let's just say the purpose of having the lights is to illuminate the venue. And you can do that just as adequately with shielded lights as with unshielded lights. And you can see what the difference would look like. There's also a picture on the last page of your report, 308, that would depict what that looks like. The code does say a limit of 20 feet, and it does say unshielded. And I think that in trying to stay with the rural nature and the rules that everybody else has to follow in that neighborhood, that that should be a stipulation in this. Now, one of the members did point out that the 55 decibels and 65 decibels, I think 55 decibels is appropriate. It seemed that it was appropriate at the last request, so I would think it would be appropriate here. Now, remember, they do own the parcels around, so that would allow for an additional 600 feet of buffer before that 55 decibels was read. I'd like to refer you guys to pages 157 through 161 in your staff report. There is a history and it goes actually back to 2016. Mr. Lawrenson erred on that. And I think it would be irresponsible for the county to issue SEP with no monitoring and no enforcement mechanism in place. Is that on the two-minute warning or the four-minute? Because I'm going as fast as I can.

That was on the four. We'll give you one more minute.

Okay, thank you. So basically, staff seems to think that 11 p.m. for lights, 11 p.m. for noise would fit into the character of the neighborhood. It does not. It's very quiet there. 9 p.m. would probably be more appropriate. There's just no, it's just rural. There's no activities that go on beyond that point. So if you do choose to forward this, I would recommend a 9 p.m., stick with the 55 decibels, Friday, Saturday only, Sunday is a school and work night, lighting shielded, 20 feet, and remove Christmas and Thanksgiving from the list of holidays. And then staff should also confirm that all stipulations are met before any events are actually scheduled and held there. Thank you for the latitude to go a little bit farther.

Oh, you bet. Yeah. When you say remove Christmas and Thanksgiving, that would mean they cannot do it those days? Yes, sir. Okay. I'm trying to pull up that condition right now. I'm not just texting.

The condition says major holidays and they're listed and those are two of the holidays that are listed.

Thank you.

It's condition D. Condition D. Thank you. Do we have anybody online?

Nobody that's expressed any interest to speak online, no.

All right. Would you like to come back up as an applicant? You don't have to, but if you'd like.

Maybe I could say something about the letters of opposition. There's only one letter of opposition on our side of New River Road, and I'm sure you're aware New River Road is significant road there's plenty of noise i mean we hear sirens you know 24 7. and so this one neighbor james is i think one of the first guys i met when i moved in he's been in our home he's had my phone number never once has complained about lights or noise but i did seriously offend james and marcy actually on a completely unrelated, I think, issue. And I took some heavy equipment to a parcel next to their home and did some excavation. And it was after that that I kind of lost friendship with James. We still speak and we still keep in touch, but I think he's complaining about how I offended him. And you might notice in his letter he is complaining about the golf ball. I did find the golf ball and remove it. One other letter I'd like to mention, Mr. Mason. And so he'd be on the other side of New River Road. And I don't know that I've ever met him, but in his letter, he says, more concerning is that Mr. Stewart has owned two lots in our neighborhood. And then he goes on to complain about those two lots. And if you were to ask me about those two lots, They have beautiful new million dollar homes, but apparently somewhere in the process of putting those new homes on those parcels, I must have offended Mr. Mason as well. And so I think I'm a little bit of a target here, but my goal is to make our neighborhood a better place. It's my career for decades has been to improve Maricopa County. And if you look at the parcels that I've had anything to do with over the past several decades, they are improved. And the assessor agrees with me about every time and raised the values. Let me just repeat that the conditions are really limiting. In other words, we got the weekend nights and we'd be willing to give up the Sunday nights and we have a five-year term. And it's going to take us at least a year maybe more, and maybe we'll never meet all these conditions. It's going to cost us hundreds of thousands. And when you look at how many events we could potentially have over these five years, there's no way we're going to see a return on that investment. But we're anxious to share our, I think, amazing and one of a kind historical property with the community and with the county and with the state. And I think we can draw in visitors from out of state and we've entertained people from out of the country. So just to recap, I think we can comply with all those conditions and I'd like you to give us a chance and make us subject to the existing noise ordinance. Thank you.

Any questions? Hearing none, thank you. We'll close public comment.

Sorry, Mr. Chairman, I do have a question for the applicant. This is Commissioner Tillman.

Okay, great. He's coming right back up. All right, you're good now.

I was just wondering if you could touch the shielded lighting point that your neighbor brought up.

OK, good. I'm not sure that I understand his complaint, but as I understand the rules that we're willing to comply with include shielding on all of the lights except the small string lights that are so small they don't meet or exceed that lumen limitation.

Does that answer your question?

Yes.

Okay.

Great.

Thank you. All right. All right. I think you're done now. Let's certainly be open to hearing individuals thoughts on this or emotion.

Hi, this is Chair Millhaven. I'm inclined to support this. But with the 65 decibel noise reading, that's about the sound of a refrigerator and it's outside the property limit. So certainly it can be louder than that on the property, but once it gets to the neighbors, I think that that's reasonable and not to leave it at the discretion of the officers. I think it should give the neighbors some peace of mind. So I would otherwise be supportive. So I'll make a motion to recommend approval as presented.

Mr. Acting Chair? Yes. This is Commissioner Whitney. I had the same question as Commissioner Tom about the lighting, and I just want to, I guess, verify with the staff that any other lighting other than a very low wattage sort of bistro lighting on the property would, in fact, be required to have shielding. And I agree with Chair Millhaven on that. I would leave it at the staff recommended level. And I will go ahead and second the motion.

Yeah, we had a motion by Millhaven. And all right, we'll give you the second, Commissioner Whitney. And I'm going to clarify that motion too. Darren, did you want to say anything on the light part real quick?

Yes, Mr. Chair, Commissioner Whitney's understanding is correct. The string lighting is subject to maximum lumens and has to be shut off by 11 p.m. All other lighting simply must be shielded at least 20 degrees below the horizontal plane at the bottom of the light source.

Okay, and I want to make sure that the motion is clear. The only change that is on the table with the motion is around the... Mr.

Chair, the staff recommendation is 65.

So the motion is as it was presented by staff. Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay. All right.

And we have a second. That is also the intention of my second, I guess, since we had two different noise levels in the staff report. All right.

We have a second by Commissioner Whitney. Let's go ahead and do a roll call vote.

Commissioner Dan Zison. Yes.

OK. We did hear it that time. Thank you.

Commissioner Layton. Yes. Acting Chair Lindblom.

Yes.

Chair Mulhaven. Yes. Commissioner Rockwallet?

Yes.

Commissioner Tomah?

Yes.

Commissioner Whitney?

Yes.

Chairman, we have a motion recommending approval by a vote of seven to zero.

All right, wonderful. If there's no other announcements, correct. I just, I didn't get to say this and I, this is my first time back, but I, and Tom's not here today, but I just was driving here today thinking about Mr. Ellsworth and just really the impact that he made to the county. And I just wanted to recognize his hard work and all of your hard work under his leadership. He will be missed. Those are big shoes to fill. He was a voice of reason and pragmatism and just really what government should be and really sensible in his approach. and worked with the community really well to find the right answers. So just wanted to share those thoughts today. And with that, we will adjourn. Thank you.

Thank you.