Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee - Regular Meeting

We're here.

It is now 03:30. It is 03:30, and I want to call the December meeting of the Parks and Rec Advisory Committee. Oh, yes. We got one more chair, and then the next people are gonna have to sit in the front row punished for coming late. Welcome. And, will you Claire, will you call the roll?

Member Hanaki?

Here.

Member Martini?

Here.

Member Spindler?

Here.

Vice chair Lynch?

Here.

Member Aegis?

Here.

Member Kramer? Here. Chair Siegel?

Here. Can I ask you to join us in the pledge of allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

To the committee to the committee, have you read the agenda? And if you approve it, may I have someone give us a approve the agenda?

No. Motion to approve.

I'll second.

Okay. Thank you. A motion has been made and seconded. And the, the minutes of the November 18 meeting, May I have a motion to approve those if you've read them? And let's approve them here.

Conversation was, do we cap this at 400? Because there's supposedly 500 waiting to play. And by having a higher level, a little extra money, do people that want to pay in the morning, do they pay some premium number, some people who aren't willing to pay as much, they pay a little less, but they play in the afternoon. And does that help with overall revenue into that? I think the more the other important thing that hasn't quite been stated yet is that we also, in this, recommendation that we were going to talk about today, is that we wanted all the funds that were generated to stay within the Rackett facility, not put off into fixing water or fixing roads or other things so that the money generated by the Rackett Center could use to continuously upgrade the facility and make sure that it's maintained.

And I think that that's a very important point that, needs to be also

We will brought discuss it. We'll get to that.

What that was, the general that's called the general fund. It goes into the city fund. So we wanted the money to be earmarked for that facility. If that if you guys are paying membership fees, it stays there for that work.

Matt, how do you feel about it?

Yeah. I agree. I I know I presented a tiered structure, but it seemed like the feedback we got from the members and the the community members that were there is, you know, keeping it simple. Right? Keeping it simple, direct. So raise the fees, keep it across the board, that $3.39, no cap. Right? So if there's we we did learn that, yes, there's 400 members, but those other four to 500 people waiting doesn't mean they're not playing. Right? Those those people are actually playing actively on a consistent basis. So I I agree with the no cap, same fee across the board for tennis and pickleball, and let's just roll it out and

and adjust

from there.

And, John, do you agree with that?

Yeah. I think so for the most part, I think. But at the same time, you're putting the cart ahead of the horse. Are they gonna be able to keep the money for the pickleball only? Does city staff have any say or have any idea? Is this legal under the city charter or codes?

We did have I did have a discussion with the city attorney yesterday. He doesn't see any reason why the city council can't earmark that specific budget in or the the revenues from the for racquetball going directly to the racquetball courts. So, I'll have more information later on, but I had that discussion with our city attorney.

Okay. So let's say, at this point, the $3.39 we all agree is okay. Now do you agree or disagree that we would charge I'm gonna call it for a premium membership that we would ask what you'll have your turn. Mhmm. This is the gentleman first.

You'll we'll get to you. Do you think that it is a good idea, a not good idea? Apparently, primetime is eight to 10:30. That if you wanna play in primetime, then it would cost you $100 more. Is that something we are interested in doing at this point? How do you feel? Fred?

If I could. And Dan, I apologize. At the meeting, I asked some questions that didn't make a lot of sense, and you tried to rephrase it for me. But where I wanted to go was I was trying to differentiate between what's operational and what I would call tactical or strategic. I mean, you're the people that operate the facility. And those operational decisions, would think, should really be on your shoulders and not ours. And I don't know how you feel about that. We start talking about pricing and so forth. Shouldn't that be operational just like hours of operation would be? What do you want us to decide?

We gotta keep a way to enforce it too. How are we gonna keep up with it? So all that has to be

Yeah. I mean, there's more to the discussion, like, how we could do it. You guys come up with ideally what you would like to see if we could do. And once you guys make that decision, then as staff, we can take a look, see what our resources are, and see if we'll be able to make it happen. If not, we'll come to you and say, you know, we believe we could do this. This is a struggle. You know, this is an alternative or something.

Yes. Especially since we're having trouble tracking now who's coming and going. I think, you know, that that's important how we're gonna track who's here for the premium hours opposed to the nonpremium hours. Right. And then what has to be available to the public because this does have to be available for public use. So Yeah. Does the membership override public? How does that work? I I don't know.

Okay. How do you feel about that extra $100, Brad?

I I mean, sure. If people are willing to pay it, sure. I mean, I otherwise, I like to I would like to keep it simple for now. If they if it gets if everything's streamlined and and rolling real well, then they can start tweaking and and doing stuff. But I'm I'm just I'm just trying to think of an easy way to roll it out for everybody because it's gotta be rolled out for staff, but it's also gotta be rolled out for the community so they know what what to do and how it works.

It's gotta be supportable.

Matt, how do you feel about it?

Yeah. I I believe we should leave it off for now. I feel like we should, get the funds built up, make the improvements to the the center, and then have, you know, some ground to say, hey. We we've now provided, you know, updated courts, the sounds of the working on everything we said we wanna work on. Now let's look at maybe a a tiered structure or a premium structure. And if that's a three year plan, a five year plan, so be it. But I think we hold off on it for now until we can have proof that it's deserved.

Okay. Yeah. John,

how do you feel about it?

I wanna know where the money's gonna go, and who's gonna take care of the money. Are you gonna leave the city to make the decisions with the pile of money that's coming in, or are these folks gonna be in control of the money?

Well, if there is

a It was discussed at the last meeting, and I'm not sure with Samantha, but somebody said when it came to him getting new and improved sound barriers, they can do that, but it has to go to the low bidder. So what kind of new and improved sound barriers you're gonna get?

The difference is is any money they have was coming out of the general fund, which there might not have been any in there because we're the last one to get it. So if if if they have an earmark budget of revenue and expense coming out, it's all theirs. And it can be used per the budgets that's decided for that year. And if it doesn't meet the budget qualifications, it might have to move to the next one or become a capital project.

Okay. But if it's their money coming in, who's gonna be making these budget decisions? The city staff or the committee of these people out there as to what they wanna get done over there?

Well, they vote all of them in, so the committee would

I I would think it would be our committee would Or us. Yeah. Discuss how how that money is.

And just so you just so you know what discussion here was to have the revenue that is from the Racket Center go to directly to the Racket Racket Center, which can happen. We don't know what that number is going to be based on what the operational costs and what's going to be left over. Obviously, sound barriers are something that is a discussion item. Another another discussion item that staff feels are very important is to put security there where we have fencing where we can control who's coming in and who's going because we can have all kind all kinds of fee changes, but if everybody's kinda sneaking in and they're not paying their fair share, then it's not a very good operation. So the the first thing is to decide on what you would like to raise the fees to.

Usually, budgets are based on what happened what what you did what you got previously the year before. We don't have any of that information right now. So what you're moving forward is is really gonna be our first how can I say it? It's gonna be a test to see exactly how by next year, you might find out we're short short changing ourselves or the cost of operations over at the the facility might be a lot more, or it could be less. We don't know that at this time.

Okay. Well,

so, you know, I'm okay with it either way with the caveat being that we we discussed, you know, removing the cap on membership. So if you go from a 400 membership, which is, let's just say, the number that we're using, to going to 600. Now you're gonna have 600 people who want to play all at the same time from eight to 10:00 in the morning. So for those who are currently members, they're going to have more people competing. So they're then gonna be unhappy.

So the conversation was, do we have a we give first rights to the people who are current members at the slightly higher price. They get the opportunity then to reserve all the morning slots. And then the other folks who join that the other fee know that they're available to participate after 10:30 in the morning. To me, it doesn't matter because I'm not playing pickleball. But if I'm a current member and now there's 50% there's 50% more people playing pickleball or wanting to play pickleball who have paid the fee.

They're going to have less opportunity to play, and they're going to be unhappy because of that. So it's kind of a catch-twenty two situation where if you allow more members, you're going to have more demand for those peak spots. Now I can say that since I've gotten way deeper into pickleball than I ever thought I would in my entire life, I drive by it a fair amount going to our office, which is over on San Marco. And yesterday, I came back, and this is a bad week, of course, because it's Christmas. But by 11:30, there was two cars in the parking lot yesterday.

So the morning, I'm sure, was busy. I'm sure that come January 15 through Easter, it's, you know, a whole different set of circumstances. But, you know, I'm fine if it's three thirty nine across the board, but honestly, was looking out for the folks who are currently playing because they're gonna be unhappy if another 200 people join and want the same morning capabilities.

Right. But wouldn't that I mean, they're just gonna see the schedules. Eventually, it's all gonna fill up. People are just gonna get used to having to pick a different time if if it's somebody's already scooping it up. Because, eventually, isn't that how it's gonna work?

Alright. Audience, please. Let's let them have the conversation, and then you will have your opportunity to If

they institute a reservation system. I'm sorry. It's so even the walk ins that come in in the morning and they try to get a spot in there, do if they beat the people that scheduled it, do they are they playing? If somebody's ten twenty minutes late, how does that work?

Yeah. Well, I again, I think if you institute two levels of membership, you're not gonna show up if you you don't have the level that is good from 8AM till 10:10 thirty in the morning. Right?

Okay. That's actually, that's different. So, yeah, then eight then you would only have one group in there from eight to ten, like you said.

Right. There's one level of membership that has the eight to 10:30 capability. And after that, others would have, their time frames. But that's why we discussed having the second level, which was to continue to allow the same amount of people to have same access as they currently have Because you know for sure that if you institute another level, you are going to drive up demand, and you're going to have more people going for the same amount of spots. And knowing that one of the courts is going to be going away shortly with the removal of that building in that court. So you've got you're going have eight courts instead of nine courts.

So these new members, they will not be able to sign up for the eight to ten slot. They're only going to have the one option for now.

The lower priced would not see the morning capability.

Got it.

Okay. I mean, well, the well, the well, the new members that are if we're opening up the ceiling, are they gonna be able to sign up for the higher member slot? Yeah.

Are all now, are you telling that's us right. So Are you saying to us, Brian and I, all 900 members have the option to give me the extra $100 to pay from eight to 10:30? Or are you saying only the original 400 anointed players can sign up for that extra 100?

At meeting last week, the conversation was that the current four zero five would have the

Would have the initial option option for for

first right to the 400 or $4.00 5, whatever the number is, of the higher level price point to make sure that they're all accommodated as is. After that, the $3.39 would open up to whoever else would wanna pay it. At some point in the future, if 10 people drop off next year, which will through people moving and people leaving Earth and all kinds of other things, they will open up spots. And then people that are currently $3.39 could pay the $4.39, Okay. Which So there's gives them

gonna a max on that one tier.

Well, that's what we discussed for an hour and a half, two weeks ago, or ten days ago.

Should should we consider also possibly throttling that that secondary list, you know, the 500 that are waiting? Do a 100 at a time so we don't overwhelm the racket center. You know, do a 100 at a time and then see how it goes, a 100 more. You know what I mean? No.

No. I I I say, let us all pay the same thing.

Mhmm.

Now this all sounds terrific, but we do not have a system to, have you come in without you know, there's no fence. There's no nothing. Anybody can walk in. It this is the most wonderful place I've ever seen. Everyone's happy to see everybody come on in. But how do we decide? Do we need a system? And who is gonna pay for the system of calling up and registering to come and play pickleball? How's that gonna work? Is that ours to find that system also?

So, Darren and I actually spoke about this just yesterday. Our team, our parks team, we're currently looking for a new software system for, parks and recreation.

Okay.

And one of the ones that we were looking at, they do have a scheduling system for pickleball and tennis. It's not one that we actually, are going to meet with them virtually next week. So we were doing that anyway on our own. But I did send the information to Darren. He's gonna take a look into it too and see if that is something that we might be able to utilize. Because ideally for Parks and Recreation, we would like to get a system that we can do for Mackle Park, Veterans Community Park, for everything that we do, all of our programs. And it would be able just the rocket center. Correct.

So it would it would be able to handle all of the reservations for rooms and other things. But, for instance, as a member of the Y up in Wisconsin as well, like, I go swimming. Right? And there's four swimming lanes. And if I wanna reserve one of them, I have to reserve in advance, and it tells you how many.

Now speaking to some of the pickleball players, certainly, there's a lot of them that play in the morning. I was alerted today that some days between 75 and a 100 people, access the courts at any given time. They go and they use the whiteboard system. And the way that we discussed it last week wouldn't change a whole lot of that other than we would work together with city staff and with the pickleball players to find out what's that number that makes sense from the 8AM to, call it, 10:30 time slot. And if that number is 75 or if it's 90, you have a 90 or a 100 spots.

They put their name on the virtual whiteboard. They show up just as they do now. And they play just as they do now with the step that they have to use a software, which is either an app or their website or stopping it. And, of course, you know, change is difficult, but, you know, as somebody who has to use it, I mean, it's not a whole lot different than going to the golf course and you gotta reserve a tee time. But so

Completely different. Not golf.

Okay. Okay.

Audience, please.

So in any case, additionally, some of the things that you can do, you can also set a lock on a on a gate, for instance, so that there aren't people playing pickleball for before 8AM. So that one of the things that we're trying to solve here also is to help the neighbors. And the neighbors don't enjoy pickleball happening before 8AM. Additionally, you can lock the door at 8PM or 6PM, whatever time that Sam and Steph want the lock to happen automatically. So there's a couple of things that have to work in combination here, including one of the things that could happen is that if you do put this in place, they may be able to have less staff working the facility in order to facilitate as much.

So there are things like that. And change is difficult. But at the end of the day, the goal here is how can we achieve what we need to. And, I get it. Nobody wants to go for paying a 188 to $3.33, but the tennis player has been paying it for however long. And, I think working together to try and find a solution here, it seems like this conversation's gone round and about for three years, and it's gotten nowhere. And the facility obviously needs extra money. You go over there and look at it. It is not in Mark Wieland condition. We need it to be improved.

It is, doesn't matter which way it gets done. I know there's a group that wants to bring more money to the table. They've got ideas, haven't gotten here yet. But the reality is, I think whether or not they come forward and continue with their project or not, the fee discussion is one that still needs to happen because it's underfunded. And, that's the reality. And, I think everybody needs to work together here towards a a solution.

A question. I guess you two are the only two that can answer it. We're talking about a fence around Mackle Park Mackle Park, the Racquet Club here, and we are talking about, somebody our help here. Right now, to be real candid, it doesn't look like we're doing this place is not or the pickleball courts are not in the greatest shape that I've ever seen courts, and we all agree to that. If we indeed raise our fee to $339 a person, do we get the fence that's gonna keep everything in great working order?

Is that done before we collect any of the extra money? Is that something that can be done in advance so that when the time comes, there's a fence, and you put in your ticket, and you're ready to rumble, and it's perfect. Can that happen? Or are we just talking here, and it's one more thing that is up in the air.

I mean Yeah. Truthfully, the the starting to get that, that's not automatically gonna pay for a lot. It's gonna take a little time to, you know, to get up what we need to pay for these additional,

you know

But my guess my question is, is the town of Marco Island willing to pay for a fence before the $339 comes in? Or is that

We would have to see

We would

have to alright.

If we can come up with the funds. I mean, we're willing to do everything, to renovate everything.

Oh, No. No.

That's the question.

Okay.

So, I mean, we have certain things that are budgeted for, which is the demolition of the Racketball Building and so all of that. Do we have anything for the fencing, Joe? No. We had talked about making it where they would have to walk past the, the front desk.

Can you ask do we have anything? Are you asking if we have a design or are you asking if there's funds?

Do we have funding for that?

There's no funding. Yeah. What was the yeah. Was gonna I couldn't remember. What was the cost? We we had talked about doing fencing. Do you remember what the number was? We didn't really go through that because we were still talking about removing the other racket building, which we that's the next thing that's up for council.

Right. So, no, that would not happen right away because we would have to find the funds for it.

Okay. I wanted you all to hear that. The so when we talk about we'd like to do we wanna put the fence around it. This is realism talking to you. We wanna put the fence around it.

There's basically no money to put that fence. And Marco Island, at this point, doesn't have we had to raise money to put up the things for Christmas. So there's not a lot of extra money in the town of Marco Island at this time. So as we choose what we're gonna do as we go on, I'm not sure when it's ever gonna happen. And I know we've got people who are there's things in in the in the work somewhere along the way, but we're talking about right now.

So we are saying right now, we're willing to have to raise the fee to $3.39. And possibly, we're willing to ask for that extra $100 to play earlier. If the council would say yes to this, do we put a time limit on when it starts or when we would like it to start? Samantha, you tell us. Is this something that is we're all sitting here and Dolores, get a grip, honey.

It's not gonna happen for the next year because how long have we been knocking down the building? We coulda hired somebody, and they knocked it down six months ago. Poor honey, I know it's not your fault. By the time they get a bid and they get the lowest bidder and they get somebody to come in, it's it's a long time. So how do we deal with that?

What I see is what we're doing is you guys are gonna make a recommendation for, for the fee schedule

to change

the fees. You're not making a recommendation to say, we're gonna increase the fees for this, and then this is what they're gonna get because we don't know. And it's gonna take some time to get substantial amount of money to do the amount of renovations with that. So really what you're doing is you're talking, are we going to keep the fees the same or are we going to do an increase? And if we're going to do an increase with the fees, then this is what you're recommending that the fees are.

Just with that, not we're gonna increase the fees and this is what you're gonna get for it. Basically, we're gonna increase the fees and the facility is what it is with the renovations that we already have, you know, planned for it. We can't make any additional promises right now because we don't have any funding to do anything additional.

So we can My idea with

that was the fees need to be raised. They haven't been raised in years. So we're gonna be playing catch up. That's the problem. The goal of that now is that once we get those fees raised and has decided, the budget goes into place and we and that can start being utilized. And then plans can start being made for next year. Once there's once there's extra revenue there, then all the stuff can start taking place. But, no, it's not gonna happen right away. The money's not there. That's the whole problem and why the racquetball looks the way it does.

So, certainly, you know, we we do have the one group who is wants to have a conversation, who's presented at city council, about this and came here and spoke to us. You know? Again, I think they wanna have a workshop environment with us also in the very near future, sometime in mid to late January, early February. But I don't I think even without I think John brought it up at the last meeting, which is this is the pickleball journey. I think this is step one to find out, are there truly 600 players who wanna play pickleball in Mark Wilder, or are there 900?

I think that actually drives the question in the future as to do you need 16 courts or 27 courts, or is 12 courts enough? And, you know, I I think that also then leads to the conversation about noise, and it leads to a larger discussion. There can be. And and I think this is step one in the pickleball journey, we'll call it. We know we all know in the room that there's a problem.

We've got people on both sides of this issue, and I think we all need to come to a solution. But I think even if the group comes forward and a new project takes place, this discussion about fee, I think, at a baseline is the same, right? And, because there's no doubt the facility needs more money. If, with this fee structure and a few more members, roughly, it raises a 100,000 a year beyond where it's currently at. But honestly, taking a look at what's over there and knowing how much things cost today, a 100,000 is like a nickel on the floor.

So it it it's not that much money relative to what needs to take place over there. And, you know, I think also, you know, we, as a group, need to go to city council and also, you know, beg and plead for a bit more funding, that's possible, because there's no doubt that park is has been neglected. It needs work. And it definitely you know, I think one of the things that everybody in this room is proud of is when you say you love Amarco Island, people come here, and and we're all proud of where we live. And I think we all wanna be proud to take our friends and our family to whether it's Mackle Park or Veterans Community Park or the Racket Center.

Right now, I don't think anybody is like, man, look at our beautiful Racket Center and look at, like you know, you bring your friend from wherever there, you're not, like, super proud of it. I think we wanna get to a position where we can make the pickleball players happy, the tennis players happy, the neighbors. And, also, everybody in this community can be happy that we've got this beautiful racket facility. And right now, I don't think we're there.

No. Me ask If you a you if we say the money is kept in a fund just for doing the racquetball courts, is the town in charge of that extra money, or are the pickleball players? How do we how does that work? When we say we don't want it to go into the general fund, we wanna be the masters of our own destiny with this. I think that's what we're trying to say.

It wouldn't go in the it wouldn't go in the general fund. It would just be used for pickleball. Okay? The act let's say we get an extra 100,000. How is if the town does it, if the town takes this extra money that's now in the kitty, it takes time we have to get it takes more time than if mister Folly and a group decide they're gonna be in charge of getting new light poles or new whatever.

Do we we don't have any that doesn't work. It's the town even if it's not in the general fund, the town is still in charge of the extra money that we have is what I'm trying

to that's where the budget's been. That's

All all they're really doing is earmarking whatever the revenues that come in for specifically the racket center.

Okay. Okay.

And and please, just a correction, this is a racketball center. The tennis players play there too.

Yes. Absolutely.

So it's it's a multi sport facility for for everybody in the community.

Yes.

That's a council directive that they would give staff to make sure that money is earmarked.

Okay.

Okay.

And it

would be based on your recommendation. So this all comes together. So it's Your your recommendation

change. Yeah.

Directly. That's up to the city council to follow that direction or that recommendation. Okay. And then, like I said, is based on the revenues that we're getting for whatever you choose or whatever the city council chooses, that will give us a good lit litmus test on maybe we didn't charge enough or maybe we charge too much or I'd have to forget we're we're gonna say we're charged too much, but because that facility needs a lot of work. Oh, yeah. So it's really what what the level of service the community demands for that area.

Okay.

With the budget, it's not just a budget. You have to you have to have a maintenance plan in there. You have light fixture replacements when the nets break, when the sound barriers crack or disintegrate. You know, everything's there everything's got a monthly budget. So, hey, this month, we have to fix this stuff. Next month, we have to fix this stuff. And ongoing and and so on and so on.

Well, see, what I guess where I'm coming from is once we have the money and we have paid and we have the extra money, does the town then figure, let the pickleball players take care of everything and our our responsibility? That won't happen.

That's not what this discussion Okay.

I just wanna I wanted you to verbalize that. Okay.

The parameters of what this

Alright. So you're still going to spend what you were gonna spend and what we do or what the pickleball players do. That's all extra and plus. Okay.

Well, the city is still responsible for maintaining that city property. We hope so. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

That's not going away. Yeah. See, that was what I wanted Dan to say that he's promised that they won't forget that they they have a budget, and this is extra with that budget. Everything we raise is extra. Okay. We're on it. Gentlemen, let's talk about or let's let's give us how do you feel? $3.39 a year as the base fee for the Racket Center. Brad, what do you think?

I'm fine with that. I'm opposed to the tier system. It's just too complex to introduce in the first year.

Okay. How about you, John? I originally wanted to come up with the right formula to find out what the number would be, but I know that's gonna be complicated. So I think this is a good starting point. Okay. Brian?

I'm agreeing, and I like the I like the the tier system for

the current We'll get to that in one second.

Three. Fred, what did you say about the tier system? I just didn't catch that.

I'm opposed to that just I thought it was too complex in the first year. Also, though, to follow-up, if you're going to have the tier system, I assume you're going to have, what is it, four twenty three members, whatever that number is, that's the number they can participate in the tier system and it's capped

at that?

That's what they said.

And if some of the people don't join the tier system, then others can join the tier system?

Up to the cap.

Yes. So if we did a tier system, let's just say it's 400 for round math right now. If three fifty of the current people went with the higher number, 50 spots would be open to whoever in the community that could buy at

the higher end.

Yeah. Right.

And then after that, as many other people would wanna join, could join. Okay.

And how do okay. Dan alright. Let's start with Matt. How do you feel about the $3.39? Go pay.

9 across the board.

No

cap. No. Okay. And, John, how do you feel about it?

$3.39, no cap. But, again, what are you going to get for their money in the end? We keep hearing it's way down the road. Ask Joe. Joe, the last time you were gonna do a complete remodeling of the pickleball of the Racket Center, you had two quotes. And what was the last one that came in? That's how many years ago, and now we've had inflation. You wasn't it, like, 2,000,000 or close to that?

Yeah. Think it was 2 was it 1,200,000.0?

Yeah. And

then so the money that's left over that, we still have plans to remove that Racket Center building that's there now and add parking.

Yeah. Again, regardless of what you charge to take care of this facility, it sounds like it's a long long road down the going down that road to get this place up to Mako Island standards.

We're gonna work on it.

And what's gonna happen in the meantime? The place is just gonna continue to deteriorate while these people check-in 339, 350, 500. You you can't take a sow's ear and turn it into a silk purse. That's what it seems to be coming down to, and nobody wants to look at it that way.

Like I said, we're playing catch up.

We Yeah. You're really playing catch up, but the whole island's playing catch up. The city councils are here. Ask them. Everything on the island's deteriorating.

Okay.

And more important than this facility. I'm sorry, but okay. Throw the three thirty nine. It's fine with me. It's not my money.

I think it might be. Darren, how

about you? So I mean, I I definitely think the $3.39 at a minimum needs to take place to that pickleballs playing equal to tennis.

Okay.

If we instituted the 100 for the early morning hours, the only reason I brought that to the table is because if you open this up from what it is to today and 700 people buy this, there's going be current people who are going to be probably somewhat unhappy that there's going to be a lot more demand in the morning. So the way to deal with that is to have a slightly higher price and a first right for the current members to purchase at that price before we go out and we allow others to come in. So I would probably stay with the tiered position only because it's going to allow current members to probably, at least at a minimum, retain their current experience while also providing some additional funding to start working on some repairs that need to happen. But honestly, I'm looking forward to the workshop in the next, four to six weeks so we can get to step two in

this I'm hoping. So now March, we would like to give that to the town council as our recommendation.

Do you want it to because we're getting it's about four fifteen. And if we're gonna hear

Let them let them Let us

I think we have to

hear. Let us go

Oh, I

can For this part.

And then then

Let us go for the for the $100, and then we'll and then we'll we'll give it back to you. How would that be?

Alright. Just remember that we end at 5.

Oh, we can do it. Yeah. Not a problem.

Now I think before we make a motion, we should hear from the the community

Well, we're let us talk about the Dolores,

Dan is suggesting that we do a motion and then second it.

And then bring.

And then bring the community in.

Okay. Shall we do we want can we make it a dual motion of the three well, I don't know because we don't know about the $100. The $3.39, I don't think is a problem. I think what

I think what happens is you have a motion for both. Both.

Alright. And

if it fails, then you can come back and then just do this, the other one.

Alright. Can someone make a motion for the $3.39 and then the $100 cap for membership from eight to 10:30AM?

So I will make a motion on the tiered one so and give first right of refusal to current members to buy in at that price point. And, additionally, the $3.39 would be open to the entire community with no cap on membership

Okay.

After that.

And the revenue stays in

And the revenue stays in the the racket setting so that

we can

begin to up update and keep pickleball, tennis money in the facility where it belongs.

And do I hear a second? Second. Okay. Thank you. And now, Claire, you're up, honey. This is, can we have, I think we'd like to ask the, the audience who have signed up to speak to come up. Claire

will say the name. And if we have a bit, we might have to limit to two minutes. Right. Right. Gets an opportunity.

Claire, how many do we have?

We have 10.

10 times four is 40. Three. Well, that would three or four minutes, it it could make it. Okay. Let let's start. Let Four? Four. Start Three. You want three. Okay. We will begin with three minutes. So won't you tell us your name, and Claire will call you up.

So first, we have Beth Baltus followed by David Cadwell.

I'm Beth Baltus, 165 Geranium Court. I can see that most of you don't play pickleball. So I'm just going to start with a quick little education. Four people on a court. We've nobody reserves a court as a group of four except for maybe one men's group every now and then. We all just meet there and socialize. You want to play? Sure. We go out on the court. You're playing until eleven Your game lasts ten to twenty minutes. So I'm not sure how you're going to schedule that in your extra time. We also tell you that we play year round. And if you play after 10:30 in the summer, you will die. We have to remind each other to drink more water. The ambulance comes more often in the summer.

So your fee structure is subject to, I'm sure, some lawsuits. The next part is city council had already decided that they couldn't increase the membership because the parking doesn't exist. So I'm not sure how you are going to make it legal now when it hasn't been legal for years to increase the membership without providing parking. That's part of it. The scheduling online. They are doing that now at Pelican Bay. They do it for six courts, I think. And we are the most expensive and will be really the most expensive until you get to Cape Coral for a pickleball. The one at Pelican Bay is a private club, and they have a few extra courts. So they let people reserve them online.

And it's iffy on that's working out because you use your little key that they give you to sign in and then just bring your buddies with you, whether they're members or not and who's checking. As far as staff, I grew up playing tennis on clay courts, way more maintenance than these pickleball courts. And I'm on my hands and knees several times a week cleaning up the water that's coming through while they're watering the clay courts. We don't water the pickleball courts except we do. And it's caused erosion in the back. And it's dangerous. It's slippery. So we don't require more maintenance. So I'm not really sure why only the pickleball memberships would get more expensive. And then oh, yes.

I have also been there when the Marriott pulls up with a bus. So you are going to make it especially if you do this tier thing, no members can't play or sorry, the guests can't play. So you've taken this little nice vacation destination and said, oh, yes, but we don't offer pickleball. And if you look at the Margo Island boards, everybody wants to know where they can play. So I hope that before you guys make any serious recommendations, you'll come hang out with us for a day and see what pickleball is really like and how we play it because you're trying to force us into a box that it just doesn't fit into. Thank you.

Thank you.

David Cadwell followed by Greg Folly.

Hi. David Cadwell, 90 Marco Village Drive. The proposed expansion of the Rackett Center raises serious concerns about both viability and accountability. The facility currently operates at a loss. Much of much of it requires repair or replacement and past expansion efforts were abandoned when costs and funding failed to align.

Yet the new plan relies on speculative membership growth despite no recent record of profitability. What evidence exists to suggest that this time will be different? Before moving forward, the Parks Department must demonstrate financial sustainability beyond speculative membership increases, noise and traffic mitigation acceptable to nearby residents, secured funding for all phases of repair and expansion, and community engagement that builds trust rather than division. Without these conditions, expansion is premature and unjustified. The parks department must first prove it can operate the Rackett Center responsibly and sustainably before asking the community to agree to any changes.

Ideally, the surrounding community would prefer that the Racket Center be relocated to a site more conducive to this type of activity. Thank you.

Thank you.

Yep. You.

Through the chair real quick. Through the chair. This issue is regarding membership and fees. This is not we're gonna be moving facilities someplace else. If if we we can discuss that, but that's on just open audience participation. We don't wanna do that mix what we're discussing here with fees and memberships.

We have Greg Folly followed by Diane Shagut.

Hi. Greg Folly. 940 Cape Marco Drive. I wanna commend everybody for wrestling with this issue. It's a very challenging one. I wanna associate myself with some of the comments. The whole idea of reservations and pickleball just doesn't work. It works for tennis because you typically have a group of four, a group of eight and you work it. This is a group of 80 or 90 that show up every day and you just rotate through. And actually if you have this premium time between eight and 10:30 you don't wanna have other people reserving courts and preventing that system from working the way it does.

I think you're right to be considering how to limit the increase in the numbers in the morning beyond that and finding some method of regulating that. I'm not sure we've worked through the best answer on that and the $100 is one way of dealing with that. But I think there may be some others. It may be just you could open a membership to people outside those hours. The people who are there now, you can have those hours and additional memberships could be opened up at those times beyond the eight to 10:30 prime period.

And Ms. Balthas is also right that during summer and some of the hottest months it's just not gonna work in the late morning or early afternoon. But it would work in the evening and pushing people in that direction, new members, I think is sound. But I really need to discourage you from trying to put reservations during that eight to 10:30 timeframe. It just won't work. Thank you.

Diane Shaggett followed by John Johnson.

Diane Shaggett, 1700 Bounty Court. I want to step back a second. I started playing pickleball December 2013. So I have a little bit of history under my belt. And one of the reasons that the pickleball fees were so much lower or there was a discrepancy between tennis, the tennis community was a lot more robust at that time in 2013, and the maintenance on those courts was very expensive. The maintenance on the pickleball courts was extremely low. My suggestion here is you're talking about increasing our fees to the same as tennis. What are we getting for that? I'd like to see the courts swept every morning. I'd like to see the courts dried every morning.

They're getting their courts raked and put into good position so they can play on a clay court. What are we getting? Nothing. That's a question I ask you. When you talk about opening up the membership so that we get more revenue, how can you open the membership when you don't have more courts? You're just putting more people into the problem that we have already. And if you want to talk about them, we're worried about this list of people who want to be members. Aren't we forgetting that we're your customer right now? They're on a list. They're waiting to get in.

If you were to say to everyone on that list, if you'd like to continue to be on the list, pay $100 When you do join, you'll get that refunded. How many people of 500 would stay on that list if they had to pay $100 That's something to look at. What about the daily guest fee? Are we gonna allow guests to come in the morning if we've upped our membership price? Are we going to have them? What's the what's the daily fee going to go to? It's going to have to go up substantially, or it's not going to be worth it to have a membership. People are just going to pay a guest fee. We used to have a committee that was pickleball members and tennis members. We worked as a committee.

We had discussions. We talked about parking. We talked about some of the challenges. We worked together to come to this committee and tell you what we thought, how we could make the Racket Center a better place. That committee was completely disbanded. And I'm assuming it was by the direction of Parks and Rec. Why don't we have that again so that we can work together as a team and talk about that? Also, this is a park. Just like Mackle Park, just like Veterans Park, they don't make a profit. People don't pay to use those parks except with their tax dollars.

This is a park where it has intended by the Mackle Brothers to be a racket center. If you move next to it, it was intended to be a racket center. So I I don't understand why we keep saying we have to break even when Mackle Park's not breaking even and Veterans Park is not breaking even. I think we need to look at how can we use the fees that we pay in to put improvements back into the park. But that's just I hope that part goes through. Thank you.

John Johnson followed by Janine Wagner.

My name is John R. Johnson. I'm at 850 Dandelion Court. A couple of different things that she just mentioned. What are we going to get? The city just a moment ago said, we're going to take away one of your courts and we're not going to be able to build fences and we're not going to be able to really do any kind of maintenance. But you want to raise the cap by, what, dollars 200, dollars 700 more and put them into that when there's nothing. So again, as she said, what are you getting for your money, okay? My next question is, on this fee in the morning, are the tennis players going to pay a fee in the morning to play it between eight and ten? Is that part of the plan?

Because we are going to match them dollar for dollar for fees. Now our square footage is quite a bit less. Their square footage is quite a bit higher. Our maintenance is quite a bit less. Their square footage is and their maintenance is a lot higher. But I totally agree. $3.39, $3.39. Let's do it. Let's make it even. But if you're gonna charge pickleball a extra fee just because we're pickleballers, that's discrimination. You can't charge me if I was Catholic, right, more or if I was a different color skin. Right? You you can't be doing those kinds of things. And so you're going to charge a fee only because we belong to a class of people. Right?

I don't think that's the right way to go. Thank you. Okay.

Janine Wagner followed by Otliff Ruffledge.

Well,

welcome home. Thank

you. Diane Chagas, 17 hundred Bounty Court. Ultimately, the city council is the governing body who has to approve this increase in fees. Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay.

I

think part of what we'd wanna say is that we totally are behind you to say what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. If we pay this extra money, can we use it towards improvements that we never seem to feel like we have enough money in the budget to do? So we're behind you on that. But let's talk about the guest fee again. One of the things that happens is that during peak play, if you're going to say during that peak time, are you going to say, you cannot be a guest, which we have done before in the past during season.

And but we're seeing that now where the Marriott pulls up with a bus load and they get out they get on a court, monopolize it. They're not flowing into the system where we use the whiteboard and mix and go through. So that's a problem that we need to look at again during season.

So what we're looking for is for you guys to come up with what you think might work. And then it's gonna go back to staff, and we have to look at all the logistics. But I agree, if the membership rate goes up, then the guest fee has to go up. But we are still Parks and Recreation, so we still have to be able to provide and be open at times for the community. We can't be completely closed. So we will be having we will allow guest nonmembers to play because that's what Parks and Recreation is all about.

And you have free time currently. Yes. And you have in the afternoon where they could come in as a guest, but not during the peak time when Yes.

If it's really busy and we already are at our capacity there, our staff is not going to sell guest passes.

Okay. Another question is, if you're paying the same as the tennis players, do we have the ability to play tennis? Can we use the tennis courts? If we're paying the same fee, can we have a membership that

is more less

a bracket club?

And what I would say is if the rates are the same, what it's going to be, it's not gonna be a pickleball membership, and it's not gonna be a tennis membership. It's going to be a Racket Center membership if it's all the same. Okay.

Alright. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah. Makes sense.

Have uplift Rethledge followed by Carla Cadwell.

Before that person Sam, can I just ask you a question since Marriott came up? Do those people get dropped off and they pay the guest fee? Or is is that today, that number?

Depends on the time. It can be $15. It can be $11.

Okay.

Do they have to schedule that drop off? What if there's no room for them and they all just show up?

Yeah. A lot of times the Marriott might might give us a call and give us a heads up. Hey. We have, you know, 20 people that wanna come. There's more times than not, we've actually end up turn turning them down to come because they do wanna come during the peak time, and it's during season, and we're really busy. But if it's during the summer and we know it's gonna be slow, then we say, yes. Come on over. We welcome them.

Can I ask a question? I knew nothing about the guest fee. Is it possible, or is this, like, no, that between eight and 10:30, there can from January 1 through April 30, there can be no guests that the we are our members are now paying $3.39. Can we say or $3.39, and if we decide the extra 100, can this now be a bonus? You want something more. To me, this is something more. Is it possible, or is that something we can't say or do or suggest?

So I would suggest if you if you do the tier and people are paying a premium amount for that certain time, then no. We shouldn't do a guest fee, you know, during that time. But if you do across the board, this is it. Allow the staff to determine whether or not we're gonna do a guest fee because there could be, you know, a random day during season and not a lot of people. You know, someone has a birthday party somewhere else and we don't have a lot of people playing and someone wants to come. We don't wanna turn them down if nobody's on the court.

My

name is Zettler Freethagen, 206 Waterway Court. And we noticed that there's limited experience to operate pickleball court, but the good news is we're here to help you. So three comments. The first comment is I invite all of you to come in February or March when there are not only 100 people on the court, but 100 people waiting. So the idea to increase membership to 600, but not provide parking nor pickleball to them is not a very good idea.

Raising to 600 and decreasing the pickleball courts to eight will not work. It will get you a lot of critique in the community. The second comment is premium membership. It's also not a good idea because it's very difficult to operate. You will end up in two situation.

One situation is there are eight courts, four premium members want to book the courts, the other one not. They need to verify themselves with something on the cell phone or elsewhere that they are eligible to get on the courts because there are 50 other people who want to have the other courts. So that's one scenario that is difficult to manage. The second scenario is in high season, you have 100 people who paid for premium membership, but we will not be able to provide them courts because there are only eight cards available. So all the 92 who paid membership but don't get a card will be mad at you. Doesn't work.

Tell me about it.

Doesn't work. So the last third comment is your price of €339 is absolutely too high compared with East Naples. A better pickleball facility, the courts are in better shape and the premium is significantly lower. And guess what? The fee is €3.39 because are you aware that every tennis player so it was several times mentioned that the tennis court to maintain and to irrigate is drastically higher than pickleball, plus you have only a fraction, roughly 50% of the membership.

That means the cost per member playing tennis is roughly 800% of the cost of one pickleball player. Think about it, 800% more. Thanks for your time.

We have Carla Cadwell followed by Carol Hollischall.

How many do we have left?

Including this one, six. But

yeah, we're not going to have enough time and we do need to open it up. Does anybody have anything besides what we're talking about on the agenda to say? Alright. Well, that's good.

In regards to Hi.

My name is Carla Cadwell. I live at 90 Marco Villas Drive. I live directly behind the pickleball court at the south end where the tennis is. We are talking about an increase of membership to bring in more people. I know this is still at the front of the San Marco Villas community that surrounds the two main sides of the court and the housing on the other main side of the court.

The only open side is the front. I know you don't wanna hear this, but how are we ever going to address the noise? Our community suffers. And I'm I am I'm just nobody wants to hear it. Nobody wants to hear what we hear every day. Every day. So I'd like

to take the

time to show you that we go out. We try to sit outside. You can walk in our community. It echoes. It funnels completely down to us.

Send in daily as seeing those to let you all be aware of it. I hope you're listening to it because we have 22 buildings. We have a 148 condo owners that are Some for more pickleball, some against it. But we never get a say as a community to sit down and do a workshop with you all so you can come over and hear this. I know a couple of you have been in our in in we have areas that we say,

oh, this has

the the soundproof. This is actually at the wall where the soundproof is. Okay. This is not the loudest point. The loudest point is at my end, which is the south end behind the tennis courts. Tennis court players are out there every day. I cannot hear their ball. I hear your conversation, but I cannot hear your ball. Okay? Pickleball, we had sirens going off the other morning.

Pickleball was louder than the fire sirens coming in. Louder than the louder than the mowers. Louder than the construction that is going on. It is so annoying. Can we just complete what we've started, what you all have promised us from the beginning that you would soundproof it and let us hear what it's actually gonna be like?

Our little community is suffering. And I really think it's a shame that you don't take these citizens who are here full time, who pay for taxes, who are full time residents, and that you don't really take us into consideration because we're just kinda tucked away back there. You say we have the soundproofing, we have the we have the trees, we have all that. None of that's working. None of that is working. We are already Sorry.

But you're at your time.

Okay. We're three feet higher. So a fence is gonna have to be pretty high.

Thank you.

We have Carol Hollischall followed by Suzanne Schmotenberg. Carol Hollischack, 1036 South Collier. Regarding the three thirty nine for the pickleball memberships, that seems appropriate. Mhmm. Yes.

Tennis courts have to be maintained. However, tennis players are there two hours max. Pickleball players can come at eight, and they can stay all day. So I think 03:39 seems appropriate. Also, if tennis players have guests coming, I thought it was $20 for the guest fee.

It could be 15. I'm not sure. I did work at the Racket Center for twelve years from 2008 until 2020, I believe it was. So I think having a tier system where you sign up for a certain time, pay an extra $100 would be difficult to manage. I think a straight membership and make it a $3.39 membership, and that entitles them to play pickleball or tennis.

So I think maybe Brian said keep it simple. I think it's very difficult to manage the number of people that are coming. Also, do you know how many parking places are there?

47. 47.

I think 45. 46.

47. Yeah.

Why would you even think of opening up the membership? I

Sam, since parking was brought up, can I mention something? So since we have all the pickleballers here, if you don't know, you have permission to park at City Hall currently.

And

I would think that a good first step here would be to I mean, everybody's going for exercise. It's not that far to park at City Hall versus the Swales. And there's also parking available at Mouthville Park. And, you know, part of the discussion we had last week, certainly, we wanna work towards being good neighbors here with people who are, you know, trying to have a better situation. And, when it was brought to my so I didn't know this.

I I actually was gonna bring it to Dan and a few others and ask if that was a possibility, and they said that that was already in place. So last week at our meeting, that was brought up, and then I saw a presentation that was presented by the group that is trying to do something else who also mentioned parking in City Hall. So one of the little asks that I would have of people who are playing pickleball currently is, you know, if you see the parking lot's full, can you park over at City Hall and walk across? It would be a good first step to starting to mend the fences between you and your neighbors. And, if we could do that, again, we could take and use assets that we have right around this facility without spending any more money on parking.

And without parking in swales, even though it's legal, I think it would be great if you guys within your community could pass the word that that's actually a good first step.

Okay. And opening it up, and that was just for rotating. Opening The membership was for rotating. And for fairness to get more people in there. You know, you may not be able to play every day, but at least some other people can get in there and play.

We have the next spec speaker

is Suzanne Schmotenberg followed by Roz Khrysmanet.

Hi there. Suzanne Schmotenberg, 730 South Collier Boulevard. First of all, I'd like to thank all of you for what you've done because it does seem that all of you are trying to look after all of our best interest. And I know that's not easy because it looks very divided,

but,

I think you're trying to bring us together. I think the one price is an excellent idea. I was member a member for years at the Y as well as the Racket Center. I believe I was paying $700 at the Y and $3.39 at the Racket Center. At the Y, I played pickleball a little bit, and I played tennis quite a bit.

They do not have a differentiation of the price, which is what you're basically recommending now. And I think it'd be great because we might get a few more pickleball players coming over and playing tennis with us. We would like to have more people join in, and I might even be able to play a little pickleball at the Racket Center. So it might help bring us together. And I don't like the idea of constantly bringing up that courts are more expensive, tennis courts to maintain than pickleball.

I'd like to see us work as one and, you know, not say, well, I've got multiple properties here. I want all my taxes to go towards tennis courts. Or you have family members that have different choices of what they participate in in sports, but you want that family to work together and be a community. And I think that's what you're working towards for our benefit, and thank you very much. Thank you.

I believe in order of time, we were gonna move it to two minutes per person. So it's Roz Khrismanek followed by Cynthia Alburgo.

This will be very very quick. Rob Kuzmanich, and we're over at 170 Clyburn. But, one of the things I wanna talk about is, first of all, I I'm a mediocre pickleball player and a mediocre tennis player. I love them both. And one of the reasons why you don't really hear tennis too much is because you don't rally as long as pickleball players, but I'm just joking.

The morning to try to bring in more people and trying to reserve a court will never work. Reason being, it's a social. It's actually just a social. And that's what that's what pickleball has taken off. It's a social atmosphere. So when you have the whiteboard to think about it, this is something that we and being a pretty high level tennis player at one time is you never have that. So you never have that community of people just joining in and saying, hey, you're done your one game. Let's move on. Let's get someone else in here. You're never gonna have that.

Same with Padel. Pickleball is a very different atmosphere. So I don't think that you're gonna be able to increase to 600 members and have this different facility to go with this many people. Somebody was mentioning about a cost. I don't even know what an increase of the cost is gonna do. Yes. If that's gonna help us with maintenance, by doing a tiered thing and trying to get more people to come out in the morning is not gonna work. Just remember, Marco Island is such a social place. Let's keep it like that.

We have Cynthia Alburgo followed by Marge Folly.

Hi. I'm Cynthia Alpergo, and I live, in Naples at 266 Newport Drive. I lived on Marco Island in the nineteen eighties, and I tried to play tennis. But it was such a closed sport. It's so clicky. If you weren't part of a group for many, many years, you couldn't play. And I had no sport. But then I found pickleball. And I don't live on the island anymore, but I come here every single morning to play. And if you think about this exclusive morning membership, you're excluding people from being this social environment.

What pickleball was and always has been is this element where we can all come together. I come here at 09:30, 10:00. Do I get here at ten? Sometimes. I I am not an 08:00 in the morning, but I can get here whenever I want. And I can play for two hours. And I can meet friends and talk with them and have fun. And that's what pickleball is really all about, the spirit of pickleball, and why people are inviting you out to see what we do and how we do it and how we have so much fun together with new people. I'm always welcoming new people and guests to come and encouraging them to sign on the board and play with us. It's just what it is.

I have no objection to raising the fees. I do have an objection for a premium price because the premium hour for tennis players is the same as ours. So if you want to charge the tennis players an extra $100 to play from eight to 10:30 and us an extra $100 then it's a fair playing board. But if you're not, then as several members said, now you're prejudicing people. That's not fair. And finally, I think there could be some open memberships. If you looked at the capacity per day, per time. So if we said, okay, you can have a 100 people out there and no more, the first 100 people can play. And maybe you can open up membership to more people.

I'm sorry, but you're at your time.

Thank you. And I probably wouldn't get to play then.

Our final speaker is Marge Folly. It's Margo.

Folly, 940 Keep Marco Drive. I just have a couple questions. First of all, thank you Dolores. I think you're the one on this panel that understands pickleball the best. And I would encourage and invite every single one of you to come over and see how this actually works and how it should be managed and how it can be managed effectively because I'm not sure that you truly understand that from some of the comments. The parking the parking has been addressed. We've managed that. We manage that every day. High season, I ride my bike every day.

Yep. Many

people park If you ask the neighbors

Many people Can I I only get two minutes? Many people park across the street and in the swale. So we've kind of, like figured that out ourselves, I think. I don't think we need to beat the parking to death except for that we can't increase the membership if we don't tear down that building and tear out that court and make more parking. Samantha mentioned that guests aren't allowed if it's busy. We've seen we've been playing when it's very busy, and we've seen guests that have been allowed to play. What is that number? Who manages that? What is the criteria for that?

The front desk staff manages that.

So what is the number?

We don't have a specific number. It's they judge it based on

what's So you see how it's so frustrating for us? Because there's no management. It's it's all on a come and see and let me decide. There's no management. I play on these hard courts. There are rocks. You realize that? We're playing on tennis hard courts, and there are rocks on the courts. There's no management. We have a whiteboard. It's like falling apart. Can we just get a nice we live in Marco Island. We just put a nice whiteboard that works for it's now taped and there's I mean, it's a joke. Our our fencing, the yellow guard that runs across the it's fall. It looks like a junkyard.

I mean, really come over and check it out. You you would be embarrassed.

I'm sorry. You're out of your time. Thank you.

Good job, Mark. Just

just on the parking issues. You know, I I ride a lot of miles on my bike around the island. And, you know, the last couple weekends, there's a lot of cars, and they park all the way wrap around to the other side. And I I just think like, let's be honest. Like, on Saturday and Sunday, there's not a single car in the city hall parking lot. Like, that whole thing could be totally filled. So, like, either we wanna be honest and have an honest conversation about it or you don't. And this is not about pitting people. This is, like, a simple solution that could help fix one small thing, and it's not that many more steps from the swales to city hall.

We're on board.

We're running out

of hand.

Sorry. What we need to do is

Yes. We'll get

We I'm

We have enough

Yeah. We own we only have enough time for one more, and then you guys have to do your vote because we're getting about five minutes before.

Was the last speaker. Okay. Yep.

Alright. So do you guys wanna vote?

Yes. Do we communicate first?

Or Yes. We can. We can can we talk one more time around, I think, quickly, gentlemen? Because at 05:00, they throw us onto the street. So what can I say?

If we're just voting on fee fee increase, yes. Let's just get that

Well, wait. We had we had fee increase and the $100. Fred wanted to have something to say. What did

you want was gonna ask,

again, how many pickleball members are there and how many tennis members are there? Oh. Oh, I

don't have the number for tennis members, but I believe we were

at 405 pickleball members currently,

Yes. And 80 there are seven pickleball eighty sixty

six current tennis members.

My point simply is there should not be any cap for tennis players, right? There's no reason to cap that. I'm not capping pickleball, okay? If you consolidate, that's going to be an issue possibly. So I just want to raise that before we have a specific motion.

My whole point with this is it's a wreck at all center. The whole thing has to be taken care of, whether you're paying $1 or $500 Everyone, that money has got obviously, it's not enough to keep that place up to up to date. So I'm just trying to make it simple across the board for everyone because then you can go in and play whatever you want. You don't have to say, I'm a pickleball player. You're just I'm going to the racket club. Done.

Okay. Let's let's we have the motion was a $339 fee, plus we had added in there a $100 cap. So, Claire, can you call the role and let's see how they feel about that?

Member Spindler?

Yes.

Vice chair Lynch?

Yes.

Member Hanaki?

Yes.

Member Martini? No. Member Aegis?

No.

Member Kramer? No. Chair Siegel?

Let's start it. Yes. But can we this has passed with us, and now we will suggest this to the, to the council. But there are so many caveats that should go with this that my saying yes is, yes. But if we have guests come from eight to 10:30, then we have to shoot them in the kneecap because they cannot play.

This is this is for those of us this is a Marco Island Park, and it seems to me or a town thing that we should not have after we've paid this extra money, that we should be able to walk out there when we want to walk out there.

Can I ask something real quick? So before we bring this to city council, I would like staff to have the opportunity to clearly write everything out, then we'll bring it at the next meeting. Yes. And then you guys can review and

approve and Absolutely. If

you could please assign one of your committee members to work with myself on this.

I would think maybe Darren.

I'm happy to write what we've discussed today. I I I think I'm happy that we're gonna bring this back next time because I think there's there's additional things here that we can talk through. We've got six minutes, but I'm happy to do that.

And the public made some valid points on some of these suggestions that probably need to be re reviewed again.

It isn't that we weren't listening because we are. And it's like, I'm looking forward to seeing you all at Publix, but it's like, we just don't know how to we don't know how to make it right. Margo, you're lucky you're not killed on that bike driving over from Cape Marco. I can't even imagine. But we want to make this something that you're that you're happy with, that we have done the right thing. And I promise you, this is just the beginning.

Yes.

Oh,

I don't know. That god bless you.

Well, it should be.

You know, that is

I think the design was to be across the board.

It was to be across the board, but I I mean, the tennis do the tennis is there a way well, we'll talk about this next time. It's $4.57. Great point. Great point.

We'll take this next month. We'll write it up. We'll put it back on the agenda. Everybody will have the opportunity to to see what's gonna be possibly presented.

Yes.

And we'll go from there.

I thank you all for coming. We truly appreciate your input.

Before we Yeah. Before we close, we can I can I do an update on what we

Sure?

I guess nobody wants to talk about anything besides pickle. Pickleball. I mean, we have an adjourned. So

Yeah. They're not listening. What the the committee's listening. I'll I'll listen. So

just for those who are members of the committee, at the last meeting, we discussed the trees at Mackle Park. And

Y'all, we have some non pickleball items to we're still in session. Yeah.

Thank you. So for the members, in old biz in old business, we've had a conversation with, the beautification committee. Beautification committee has now had their conversation. They're gonna have a meeting in early January about the trees, and then they're gonna move that forward to council and come back to us with the specific plan from for Mackle Park. Okay. So we appreciate their effort as well.

God. Yes. And thank you. You, Darren. Let's see how it goes.

I think we have to have a motion to adjourn. Motion to to end.

With the motion to adjourn the meeting.

I second.

And thank you again. This

was worse than I could.