Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee - Regular Meeting

April meeting of the Parks and Rec Committee. The gang's all here, and, the crowd is not overwhelming, but I love each and every one of you. So there. I'd like to call the meeting to order. And, Claire, can we have a roll call?

Member Hanaki?

Here.

Member Balthus?

Here.

Member Lynch?

Here.

Vice chair Spindler? Member Aegis.

Here.

Member Kramer. Here. Chair Siegel.

Here. May I ask you to stand for the pledge of allegiance? I pledge allegiance I know you've all read, the agenda. So if there's no dissent, can I have someone, approve it? Can I so move? Okay. And a second?

Thank you.

And all those in favor?

Aye.

Aye. Equally as good are the minutes of the last meeting. Did you have any additions or corrections? Or can I have someone motion for approval of last month's minutes?

I move to approve. Second.

Okay. And all those in favor? Aye. Okay. For we're going to begin with our old business. And, John, if you still can remember what you were gonna do, can you tell us about the questionnaire that you're proposing? And then we really have to discuss what goes with that proposal.

Okay. Great. Can I approach podium at

the top? Certainly.

So this is a few months old now because we were starting to, I guess, go into this and then we got sidetracked with some other conversation. So what I was looking to do is to validate the existing wait list that the Racket Center has. In particular, I wanted to know, are the people still interested in joining the Racket Center? If they were aware at the time, there was a proposal to use quiet paddles and balls, which I think is no longer the case. I also was trying to ascertain some sort of vision of what the frequency would be, the time of day or the time of year that they're playing, just so we kind of had an idea of what kind of forecasting we could do for the Racket Center.

That's what I was looking to put together here. I figured if we took that wait list and applied these same questions to everyone on the wait list, it would help us get a good capture of data. I think we're missing a lot of data in regards to this whole pickleball journey that we're on right now. And I do see, as I saw last night, you noticed some numbers that are in some of the presentations brought by Mr. Anant, who's here today.

He's going to show us some of his stuff today. But some of that stuff is based on data that we don't have validated. And I think that this wait list needs to be validated, because we don't really know how we're trying to come up with a profit margin when we don't even know how many people are still going to join. In addition to that, I just wanted to add This is just an example of what I'm trying to collect here. This was data I collected from visual.

I walked over to the Racket Center for two to three weeks during the tail end of season. I wanted to see what the volume of play was there. And I was trying to count how many cars were in the parking lot, how many people were playing pickleball, how many people were waiting, how many people were playing tennis, how many people were waiting, that sort of thing. So I was trying to collect some data here to see what kind of real usage we're having here. And I think this kind of information is vital for the city to have, to make any real determination as to where they want to go with any journey at this point. But that's my goal. Any questions to this? I'll flip back to the questionnaire where you want to see this. Go ahead. Go ahead.

I have a question. So right now, you've got a lot of people parking at the police department. So you can't really go by the cars.

Okay. No, the parking. Yeah, that's why I was trying to judge the parking by what was there currently.

And so in the questionnaire, who would you get to take care of sending that out to people? Because we're short staffed.

All right. That was a conversation that Samantha and I just had. I volunteered my time. I don't know if any of you would want to volunteer some time, and we could probably do that. I'm thinking we probably can collect between ten and fifteen people an hour on one person. So I think that's something we could collect within a week or

Additionally, I know several people who weren't even allowed to get onto the waiting list because it was full. So are you going to make an announcement that they can now join the waiting list?

I think we definitely should do that, absolutely. Absolutely.

And sorry.

No, please.

If you're not going to allow the maximum courts that Mr. Annette was first proposing, then how many people can you realistically let into the Racket Club for members?

Again, we don't know that until we know what the real true volume is. We really have to figure that out.

Thank you.

Sure. Also with the first question, are you a legal resident of Mark Warren? I think it's a Collier County Park. So I think it should be, are you a Collier County resident?

It's a good point. Good point.

Anybody? You're correct. That's a good point. Correction.

You can play if you're not a Collier County resident. We're just asking that question.

We just want to know who's who, who's coming here to Okay.

Is there any way for us to electronically give this do you have a list of that we could text this to members? Do you keep that kind of that kind of information? Or is that something that they just show up and that's it?

We have contact information for our current members. But for those on the waiting list, we mostly have telephone numbers some could be landlines we're already reaching out to individuals on the waiting list and we're getting a mix of some are landlines some are you know, their spouses telephone or not even in service anymore because they did it six years ago. So I wouldn't say that we have something really easy to for non members to reach out to them.

Yeah. Samantha and I did have this conversation several months ago. There was no easy way to do it, unfortunately.

Is it possible? Or does the town frown upon if we would get, like, the coastal breeze to put something like this in the paper? I kind of think she would. But is that something that could be done or not done?

I don't know on that.

Well, so from a I use a wide variety of technology. And a tool like SurveyMonkey or something like that is a very simple and easy process to do that can be done. You can put it up on a website. They could take the survey in that way. So the coastal breeze puts it in and people want to go take the survey online, that could be done. If Samantha had email lists in a tool to send mass emails to people that they have. I don't know what the capability of the city is under current circumstances. But I'll call all of this on a scale of one to 10. And range of getting it done is probably a 0.5 in difficulty with technology. But it comes down to, do you have the tools?

And do you have because if you don't have an email address or a cell phone number, well, the rest of it then is dependent on somebody coming across it in a newspaper or a Facebook post or Nextdoor ad or wherever else it may go. So one of the concerns that I guess I would have at this point is, we've made the decision as a group to move forward with making phone calls to people on the wait list, right? So that is it really necessary? Now moving forward would, if we want to take an intake form and have this available for all new people that are coming in. And there's some electronic survey that say, hey, we'll put you on the waiting list.

Please take this survey and make it available. Maybe that makes sense. But I think trying to call 400 people, get an updated survey from those people, I think might be just an exercise in extra staff time that currently isn't available. Because I think what's gonna happen with this waiting list and one of my questions that I was gonna have later today and perhaps we could just address it now is have we started making calls? It seems like we have. If so, how many have we called? And out of those calls, what fruit was born from that? So if we made 100 calls, how many have proceeded to join?

With that, the wait list we found out the wait waitlisters aren't actually waiting to play. They just come in and play at the daily rate. So why don't you just give this to the manager at the Racquetball Center? When they come in to say they're here, they all sign you know, fill this out if that's feasible.

We could. I mean, but the whole idea was to validate the existing wait list, which some decisions are being based on.

But they're still coming to play. So we

would Yeah. If they're coming to play, then by all means, let's collect it while we're there and then check that off on the wait list. Yeah. Absolutely.

Hold on, Dolores. I think Samantha's going give

us a Oh, you're going give us a number. All right.

We're going to get some information about the existing list.

Yeah. So I can't give you exact numbers. But yes, we have already started calling. Would say so I have three staff that have

a

list of individuals that they've been calling. And we've probably reached out, I would say, to at least 40 people at this time and I would say we had close to about half of them say that they're no longer interested but that's that first group and you know so if we go up to four fifty, that's our max for the Rocket Center, including those that play tennis. So if we get 15 new ones, we're just going to keep going through the wait list until we get to the four fifty.

But 40 is a start of a pretty decent dent in a list. And a 50% drop off rate is not surprising because they've been on there a while. I think in another thirty to sixty days of this exercise, we're gonna have a lot better handle on what exists. And then I think when you get into the fall, I think the exercise of calling again will further winnow that down and you're going to find out is there really 300 people still interested in playing or is there 100. And I think that's been one of the reasons that I think the wheels in this have taken a long time to get to this point.

But I think whether future expansion needs to be 24 courts or who doesn't matter what the number is. I think this is going to be a very inexpensive way to understand to some degree what the market really is. And I know that one thing that we are missing that we can't tell is that the two gentlemen that manned the phone because I've stood there a couple of times and they answer the phone and he tells me five, six people a day want to join. But they weren't putting people on the wait list. So that's kind of an unknown factor of what the other side of this is.

And I would like to address the waiting list. You know, it was done for a purpose six years ago. I do not recommend, and I've told our staff that we're telling people we are not going to continue the waiting list. Once we finish the waiting list and reach out to that very last person, I want and we decide that we're gonna open it up to the next, you know, as long as city council right now said 450 people. So we stick at that four fifty.

So if we get to four forty nine and we have one more first one that comes in that's how we're going to do it and we're not going to try to keep the list because it's been time consuming You know, there's been a couple of different lists that we had to combined and try to make it where it is as accurate and fair as possible. And we're getting questioned on that. It's just once we're done with what we have, we start fresh, first come, first serve, no questions asked.

I think that's an excellent

Well, think hopefully we get to a point here where we can get this whole project underway and we can get to a point where we're operating like out the windshield instead of the rearview mirror. And I think that's the best way to put this at And this

that's basically like I said, I'm trying to collect this data so we could properly forecast. Because right now, we're forecasting in the blind.

Yeah. I think that the problem is, at this point, is to ask Samantha's team to get on the phone with these people and then ask them for more information. At this point, it's like, if you're interested, we've got spots, we'll let you in. And if not, I think after you make a hundred, two hundred phone calls, you're gonna know roughly 50% of that list is not interested. If you got 200 left over, it tells you about a 100 more people are interested.

There's your focus. Then it's

know, out of the four fifty, you're going to know at some point soon how many people move, pass away, you know, whatever on a monthly basis. I mean, it's churn. This is a very basic business numbers like how many people leave every year or every month. And like, okay, we got a 100 people now left and eight people a month leave. We got about a year left of this list and it goes away. So I think over the next, call it, twelve months, hopefully, we can put to bed a lot of this Racket Center conversation and be moving forward in a more productive manner for all.

JAMES Okay. I think probably, do we want to discuss or do you feel this is something we want to pursue?

I'll start.

Let's hear it.

I I think we can move past it. And and Okay. I I don't think we'll have a problem hitting that four fifty mark Okay. And and getting the interest from the community to come and play pickleball here.

That's alright. How about Beth?

What do you think? I think

we can move forward.

Okay. I

feel so too. John put in a lot of time, and it sat there for a few months. And it's a slow moving freight train.

I'm used to it here at the city of Markle Island. No worries.

John, the data is I love the data. The data is beautiful.

What do you think, Fred?

You did a great job with that.

Yeah. I I'm looking at that. And I'm impressed by the time you

put Thank you.

Thank you.

I thank you. And it's, you know, it's like everything else. Let's set it aside for the moment. Mhmm. And we we all wanna give you a big kiss and say thank you. Yeoman's duty. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay.

Now, we are, as a committee, but I am not going to say you have to be there, But on June 15, Samantha and I will be there. And should we talk to we talk to the man first? That's you, honey. Come on up. We we're gonna put this we're gonna put my our meeting on hold because we've got a star. June 15?

Oh, no.

No. We're through with June 5. We'll get back to June 15. We now have someone who is truly special. And you have done I don't think there's a way for us to thank you for what you've done. And I'm not sure they're thanking you in the correct manner. But from this committee, I can't tell you. You're amazing.

Well, thank you.

And we I thank you. And I yesterday evening, at the council meeting, we did come after shark fishing, but it was okay. They did get the lead, Dan.

There was a blood in the water.

Yeah. I kinda like that. Yeah. The shark beat us out. But we you made a wonderful presentation.

And it has now, for those of you who weren't at the meeting, the decision we thought would be made or that the council would give Tim the go ahead or an idea. But instead, it's back to the Parks and Rec Committee as to what we want to do. Our wheels turn slowly here. And I'm here to tell you, this is not the first slow role that we've had on Marco Island. So won't you tell this committee what you have proposed and let us go from there?

JAMES Sure. Sure. Well, thank you, and a pleasure to be here with everybody today. Before I get started, Mr. Ages and Mr. Lynch, I appreciate your presentations last night. I think we all come at it from a different point of view. But I think now is truly the time where we can all start to work together and try to move everything forward for the city of Marco Island. And I think in the end, it's about give and take. It's about trade offs and trying to figure out common ground between all of us.

And I think the city council did a wonderful job of trying to do that and close that gap. So as I have said from day one, and this is literally eighteen months of working on this project in the background, You know, I always felt my job was to create transparency and open door, cell phones available to anybody 24 by seven. So I think in the end, when you try to create an environment where there is no fear that we can communicate, have civil conversations, I think good things can get done. So last night was very interesting, and we don't have to dive into all that. But just proud of city council for, you know, win, lose, or draw.

Whatever the vote is is what we all need to accept and and move forward. From our perspective, excuse me, city council majority voted to move forward to send it back down to parks and rec. And and a few macro things would happen to the project compared to where we were originally trying to move things toward. And really, in a nutshell, that was to carve it back from 24 courts back to 16. So it would be if we look at our current config now, we're nine.

The the stadium court will go away. The eight courts will remain. And then an additional eight courts total maximum could or would be added. There would be no component of having tournaments there at all due to the parking and trying to execute the tournament solution, which is certainly fine. So in the end, what we're here to talk about today, I believe anyway, is the 16 courts. Going along with that, we would have either three or four tennis courts. I spent a little time working on the diagrams this morning. And I know we move slow, missus Siegel, but we're gonna move as quickly as we can. So Yeah. As of this morning, what I did is I I reengaged PSM to talk about the 16 court configuration.

What is the best way to put that in into the complex to minimize noise? Because as you know, the most important part of this whole equation for me was to minimize noise for our neighbors. If we don't minimize noise for our neighbors, then I feel like it's an epic failure.

Excuse me, point of order. Just point of order here. This isn't on the agenda. I didn't realize you were doing a presentation. This is not on the agenda. So what are we doing here?

John, I do apologize. So we meant to put the Racket Center on the agenda. We ended up just putting your questionnaire, but it should have said Racket Center and also questionnaire. And after the city council asked them to come back to Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee, I invited Tim to come and give you an update about what was scheduled because I and I actually expected more people from the public to be here today because the Pickleball and Bracket center has been a topic of conversation at all of our meetings. So I asked him to give everybody an update so we're all on the same page.

But the public has no option to come here and hear this.

Well, public, a lot of the public was there last night and they heard the city council. All Tim is doing is giving us an update. No decisions, no questions, no back and forth conversation. He's just telling us what occurred

at

the City Council meeting last night.

All right, thank you. Thank you. Sorry to interrupt

you. Okay, yeah.

You're not on the agenda, so I didn't

understand I what was going wasn't planning attending till last So what I've done is I've reengaged PSM consulting with Dan Dale and York to figure out the best configuration for the 16 courts. What would that look like? How do they need to go in? Double check all the fence heights to make sure. We've City Council was adamant that we use that e noise product that we demonstrated in the video.

And mister Spindler, that's what we saw up in Manita Springs, Bonita Springs, which I think we definitely felt was moving in the right direction. Mister Pirelli reached out this morning asking about what noise protection did we see that missus Henry wanted us to move forward with or explore. So, I connected Joe and Dan Heston just a little bit ago. I did ask the question because city council approved the 10 foot height noise sound barrier protection. And in the PSM study, they felt that it needed to be 12 feet in order to give neighbors the full protection.

So if we if this the city is moving forward with 10 foot, how hard is it to add two foot to that? Great news. It's easy to add that two foot. So whatever, you know, is that purchase order moves through the system at 10 feet, we can add two more feet to that, which was great news on that front. So those those i's are dotted and t's are crossed. What else do I have here? Matteo is on board. He'll be working up a new pricing configuration for the 16 pickleball courts and the four tennis courts now, potentially. So anyway, just a lot of wheels in motion and just here to help in any way I can. So that's kind of what I've been working on since last night.

Okay. Brian, did you want to

Just again, my first concern is the current configuration, the current setup, the current sound issues. And I understand you guys want to jump forward and expand and then do the soundproofing. But you haven't even resolved the soundproofing with the current configuration. But you wanted to get 24 quarts in there. And you don't even know what that's going to sound like in that particular spot, in that particular development where it's located.

So I'm just wondering, before the expansion even takes place, let's get the soundproofing around that place that should have been done in the first place when the pickleball was added in the first place. Again, we didn't know it was a new sport. Nobody knew the soundings and how it was going to work. People just started playing and voila, became a very popular sport. And I understand that. It does look fun.

But Yeah. I think

That's my main concern. I don't want to jump the gun and say, Okay, put in eight more courts. And now we have 16. And we don't know that the soundproofing is actually going to do the job in that particular location. Do understand my concern?

Sure do. And Mr. Lynch, I, you know, based on the PSM, the sound consultants, you know, they said that putting the e noise product up on a 10 foot fence is not You're not gonna see a big noticeable difference until that fence gets up to the the 12 foot level. So, you know, we're kinda going in blind, but we have to respect where city council is.

Yep.

And my hope is that 10 feet will make a little bit of a difference for everybody. But we truly won't know until that 12 foot goes in.

Exactly. But if, say, you are approved to do 24 courts or 16, once that's done, it's too late. That's not going to be reversed and erased like a chalkboard. So then we're stuck with that. That's why I'm very I think you're putting the cart before the horse until we can be sure that the sound is going to be reduced greatly by

I think this is a great conversation. But one of the

things I'm that done. I don't want to repeat myself. Yep.

So this right now is just Tim Minette gave us an update letting us know what occurred at the city council meeting and he'll be coming back at a future prac meeting and then that's when we can have a full discussion. So, Tim, thank you so much.

Yeah. Sounds good. And please reach out anytime if anybody needs anything.

Thank you, Tim.

Let me just clarify one thing. Mhmm. I'm just curious. I'm sorry about this. But when you marry the sound abatement to the configuration of the courts, they're tied together. Is that correct? So if you do the sound abatement you would have for 16 courts, it won't work on the current eight courts the same way. Is that correct or or am I wrong?

So the the e noise product goes up right now on the current configuration. Is that what you're asking?

Yes. So if you did the 12 foot fence or the extra two foot and put up that sound abatement, will it be effective for the eight quarts, or is that configuration married to 12 or 16 quarts?

The the 12 foot fence should work for everything but the southern residences based on the 24 Court, which needs to be 16 feet.

Right. Okay. But city council bounced at the 24.

So

Right. Right. So if if I understand it right, city council has said, look. Move the model forward with 16 quart max. So the once we have that study, hypothetically, they come back and say, look. As long as you have 12 foot fencing around all 16 quarts with that enoise protection, you should have that 50% reduction in noise. That would be the expectation.

Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. So

last night, I wasn't able to attend, but I after dinner, I was at watched till midnight. So I was able to keep up with all of this interesting conversation that happened. I think, Tim, I'm happy to reach out after this as well. I think I have some thoughts that could be helpful to you. I am happy that council moved forward last night to enclose the existing footprint so that the neighbors can get some relief.

I'm also happy that they pushed back to get the same product that we saw in Bonita. Because why spend twice when we could do it once? And hopefully, can as I have said, I think, at the workshop we had, when I left my condo the weekend we went to Bonita, I left there with a one in 10 belief that we could make the surrounding community happy. I came back at an eight in 10 that we could make the surrounding community happy. I mean, was that dramatic of a difference.

And I did not go there expecting that. And I fully expected, and that's why I took Mr. Annette to an indoor facility. Because I fully expected that that was going to be the direction that was going to be needed. So I do hope that we can give this a legitimate good shot.

12 feet, no doubt, will be better than 10 feet. But 10 feet with better equipment on it is going to be a significant improvement over what's currently there. And I think all reasonable people can say, geez, this is much more tolerable than what it previously existed. And I think if we can get to that, I think that's going to be a very good first step. And I think you guys know that there's going be a lot more hoops here to jump through to get to the full thing.

But I think the sooner that this nine courts gets wrapped up, I think there's going to be an immediate improvement with the conversation around the neighbors. And I think that will help move the conversation for what comes next. Because without that, I just think you're pounding a nail into cement.

Yeah. And and I agree. I think we were both amazed. And the CAD was. I don't wanna speak for them, but I think they were very pleasantly surprised on what they saw. The only thing I would say is that Dale with p PSM, he was fairly adamant that that 10 foot fence is not gonna make that big of a difference to the current configuration. So that's the only piece I would change based on what they recommended. So hopefully, it does. But we'll find out.

And I think you said it was a two, three foot difference from the CAD Wells to the bank. That's why the fence needs to be because of the land level.

That's the 16 foot side. Right? Yeah.

So currently, it's 10 foot all the way around. And what they are recommending is 12 foot fence. And then back at the Cadwells, since the courts the 24 were going to go that far, you would need a 16 foot wall. So now that we're not we're going be carving that back by eight courts, the question is, does there still need to be a wall on that south? Or can it be a 12 foot fence?

Right. Thank you. Okay.

That's part of the conversation I'd like to have with you is, when I did the little drawing at the community workshop that we did, that middle section where there's courts across, I think we not a full enclosure, but looking at Arynazium over the top of that, that's not full indoor build a cost. It's significantly different. And when we talked with Dale at that event, he talked about that. And what it would allow is optionality in the future. So Samantha had additional shade in the summer for Cab Mackle, for instance.

It would be a better use of multi use of that space. Additionally, if it were raining in the summer and 200 degrees here in the summer, people would have some shade to work with. So I as entrepreneurs, we like to move the ball fast. But I think in this case, the good news is I think maybe we can slow down a step. And I think if you take that aeronauticium look at that middle section, perhaps you come down from the ceiling. You've got some drop down that will help knock noise down. And then you can have a shorter fence that would push that noise back. And I think these are important things that talk with Dale and say, what are all the options? Not just a single option. Because if you can avoid having a 16 foot fence back on that back section, think that would be good too.

You have three tennis courts across the back. So I think a little more work here. I think if you look out fifteen years from now, what's going to make the community as a whole the happiest? How can we use this more frequently and for more than just pickleball? I think that might be wise too.

The aurnasium side, and we spent a lot of time talking about that. And what they demonstrated, explained to me is that the roof and the sides have to come together. Otherwise, that noise is gonna get out. So really, you kinda morph from having a a lean to or a roof over it to where the only real solution is to enclose everything with air conditioning and go all out. And then that's where it became 8,000,009 million $10,000,000 to enclose, which we just felt like that I just don't know if we'd be

capable Yeah.

Think we

can move on from it. But again, the one that they just did in Fort Myers, they've got some that comes down. It's open air under I don't know. I don't have tape measure. But it appears to me maybe 14 feet, 13 feet from ground to where there's some shade. It's like roof piece down. You know, and if you have your fence back from that and you go up with your fence and your noise abatement, what does that look like?

Yeah. And it's not effective from what they told me. But we can we can continue those discussions.

John, did you have something else?

Yes. Just had a question. That video you showed us was very impressive at the end there. Impressive. If the product really works like that, I'd definitely like to see that. But there were some inconsistencies in PSM's data and numbers, which I did have an engineer review and I have concerns about. So my question is to the city staff, the city going to be doing any objective sound studies? Are they going be doing any modeling on this before this proceeds? No interest at all on that? Okay.

There's no money. I mean, think, Mr. Ages, what you have to realize is when I went through and selected four companies, random I don't know anybody down here. I selected four and I didn't wanna get into this all last night, but I selected four companies. I talked to each one of them for an hour. I gave you all four of the proposals. I gave the Cadwells all four proposals. And I said, you guys pick. Right? Is that accurate?

You you gave us some, and I think we all we both gave you the ones that we thought were the the best sounding

Right. So the Cadwells selected two. One was PSM and another company. And your response was, I've read a lot about PSM, and I think they do a good job. So what I did is I said, well, Mr. Ages wants PSM or knows about them. And Cadwell's, it was one of their two.

And as per some of their previous work and documents they've done, they've been pretty

spot on.

But those documents did not line up with the data they provided to you. They gave different thresholds which didn't accurately jive. So that's what I'm concerned about. And honestly, I mean, the whole thing is you just said you did. See, the way I look at this is the city should be deciding how they grow their parks and if you wanted to have if the foundation wants to donate to that. But it seems like you're driving the project. And I'm concerned how that works with the city. Because who's really in charge of this park?

Well, concern is I got thrown under the bus and rolled over three times for something that I was trying to be completely objective about that you had a very instrumental part in deciding.

I live there.

No. But selecting the people we use, John.

Right? Yes.

So you single handedly, out of the four I sent you, chose PSM because you've done a

lot believe I gave you some other options as No.

I have the emails. Mean, you basically said, they all look good, but I've done a lot of research on PSM. I'd like to move forward. Is that not the way you understood it?

I don't remember the exact email exchange. I I know that was the one that I had read that was better than others.

Right. I am going to interrupt. This might be a conversation to have on the side and we do have a lot more on our agenda if we could do that because we have to be prepared for the June 15 conversation in front of city council. So Tim, I definitely thank for all that you've done and thank you for your time. And then we'll schedule a time for you guys to come back. Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you.

Now,

Joe, can can I ask you what something? Or or the committee, do we want to say we wanna wait until the sound, the new, how long do you think it'll take? Let's say you choose a sound barrier company to get it up and for us, for Brian and and John just say, hey, sounds good, looks good. How what give me an give us a number. Give us a thought as to how long you think that would take.

So the direction I got last night from counsel was to get pricing from the company that Tim had already worked with.

Right.

I'm reaching out to them now. So I will bring both of those prices back to council. I don't believe I'll have them for the next council event or on the fourth, but the one after that, I'll probably present.

Okay. So we're talking And

once we do that, I'm not sure what the lead time is on that product, but I will find out.

Okay. Okay. So we are basically would this committee be most comfortable before we go on and make any decisions on 16 courts or where we want to go to see how we feel about the sound barrier that we are putting up now? Is that something you would feel that let let's let's put it up. Let's listen. Let's bring Tim back and say, two thumbs up, baby. Let's go. Or, hey, we gotta find something else

Yeah.

For the sound barrier. That so are we saying, I don't know, sixty days from now, we should have an answer? Or am I thinking that would be the real world, but this is the Marco Island world?

Yeah. I mean, I think he the responsible thing is we we've gotta understand for for the neighbors what now personally, I have a high level of confidence that this is going to be a significant improvement. However, I understand that these folks live there. They haven't driven up to Benita to listen. And I think we owe it to them as a community to have that opportunity to do that before we as a committee say, there's one more court. There's nine more courts. It doesn't really matter. But I think simultaneous to that, that doesn't stop Mr. Annette from doing the work with the consultants and getting all of the work in the background so that in July or August, whenever that happens,

that

we see the new plans. And here's what plan A looks like, here's what plan B looks like, and here's what plan C looks like. And I don't think that stops him, because I think you can chew bubble gum and walk at the same time here. But I think once Joe it's unfortunate that we have to wait a month to get and I understand why. Not on you, but it's on the system. We have to wait a month to get the price and get that approved. And then but I the installation stuff's pretty easy. It comes, they hang it up, whatever. It's not like this is a a hard installation once it once it shows up. Right, Joe?

No. Okay. No. It's not hard. Then if it's lighter than the AcoustiBlock, it'll be you know, that was the other product that you had recommended, the SLNCR, was like half the weight of the AcoustiBlock. So it'd be much easier. And I don't know what this product is. Before, I'd want to move forward

No. With The new one's heavier.

Sample brought out.

He said that if they go to 10 foot or 12 foot, I think you said they'd have to do a wall because the fence won't hold it.

Well, I think we have to leave that to the engineers to tell us what that is. And that's beyond, like, we're not doing that every day. But what I do know is what I saw in Benita and what I saw at three or four other places now that I've immersed myself in pickleball sound mitigation. I know that these things roll down from the top, roll up from the bottom. If there's a hurricane, you can strap them in the middle. And you could put it on. It allows wind flow. So I don't anticipate this being like a three week installation. I think it's a relatively we're talking hours to days, not weeks or months to install this stuff.

Just so you know, the AcoustiBlock took us about three to four guys for each panel because they were so heavy. Yeah. So, like I said, I don't know what the new product

But it wasn't weeks to do it, right?

No, it was not.

So, I think hopefully we can get a PO or an approval here. Let's call it late May. Maybe it takes four weeks to get the product in, call it June. July, there's probably not a whole lot of activity out there. But I'm sure the pickleball players that live on the island, can manufacture a couple of pretty big days where we could say, hey, let's get all of our buddies here.

And let's get as many people in there and simulate a day during the season with people playing with their balls and paddles and let the neighbors listen. And I think that's the responsible thing to do. But at the same time, why Tim shouldn't have I don't think that stops the work that these guys are going to do so that when we're ready, they're not like another three month process to to do that. Because I don't think they're gonna slow down. So I think they're gonna keep the wheels in motion as the wheels in motion with Joe are in motion.

Of course.

Well, I think Joe's wheels in motion are wonderful. I don't know if I've got the guts to say to Tim, you just keep working, honey, and we'll get to you. I you know, I I would be thrilled for you to configure the 16 courts and the lighting and everything. But it's a little guilt to ask you to keep this up. And if you say you don't have a life and you wanna do it, then god bless you. Yes. Let's okay. Oh, well, hell. Alright.

Spent enough time with Tim to know. I know he's an entrepreneur, and and I know how we

But we entrepreneurs all are the same.

So Yeah. Really don't

want to

It's just the way that it that's So what think. JOSEPH

what we've really decided here now is it's up to Joe. Are you paying attention, Joe? This whole thing is on your shoulders. And let's see if we can get the the sound barriers up. Let's see what the boys think. Do they say, I see I see it. Even you don't need a 100% improvement. But if you know that it's working and this is minimum and it's working, then, hey, we're ready to go. And then it's, it's time. So we're gone and, we thank you.

Just one last point. And I made this clear to counsel last night. But so PSM, the noise consultants, were absolutely adamant that putting this product on a 10 foot fence is not going to make a difference for the neighbors at all. With all? At all. At all. So that's why so to me, one of the most important caveats last night was we're gonna spend the money, and I'm fine with it. And we're gonna put it up. But based on their engineering, no impact positive to the neighbors at all. If it is, very minimal.

And I wanted to just make sure and make it clear that when this all happens, we don't want to install this. And the neighbors come back and say, see, we told you that this was not going to work. We're so thankful we didn't add any more courts. Because that we're on that path, and that will happen. So I just wanna make sure. And that was communicated to city council last night. And I'm a 100% fine with the decision, but we also have to be prepared that it's not going to make a world of difference for the neighbors.

Yeah, Darren. So, like, my thought is you said that there's a similar product up in Veneta that you were able to go and see. It might be more beneficial. There's got to be somewhere out there that is something similar to what we have that we can see in person to see if it actually works before putting the money out to test it.

Yeah. So I would say that the Benita location is actually relatively similar, minus the potential Cadwell site if they're lower in elevation than the fence site. But it's a 10 foot fence in Benita. It's nine courts in 12 courts.

Yeah. Nine twelve

Something like that. Yeah. In Bonita. And all you have to do is go on one side of the 10 foot fence. And I'd be shocked that if this thing gets put in and you guys are playing ball and we go on the other side of the fence, there's not a dramatically different situation than currently exists. Because, I mean, maybe that's true, but I would find

it I will say, I think it's like eight feet from the Cadwell side. So it's a 10 foot fence on this side.

Right. But you have to understand. So I think that's one of

the problems.

The situation is that where the south end of our pickleball fences to the Cadwells is two full tennis courts away. Right? There's tennis courts and another set Two of tennis full sets. I think that's 200 feet, roughly speaking. Or how long are they tennis courts? It's a good distance.

Yeah. When

we pulled up the map, as I showed twice before in this setting, the closest home at the Bonita property was actually closer than the Cadwell's home. And so I think, again, we need to get this installed, understand what it is. And perhaps 12 feet will be significantly better. I'd be shocked if we go there after this is put up in that on the opposite side of the fence that there's no noticeable difference. I'd be I'd be shocked.

Yeah. I And I don't want to disagree. I did have them model 15 different ways, right? 10 foot, 12 foot, 14 foot, 16 foot walls, putting pads between every court situation. I mean, I think I drove them crazy and the money that was spent, but I just I wanted to get it right.

So I just wanna go on record that I hope it works, and we have seen it work. The difference is the multifamily homes are higher up than the courts. In the Cadwell side, the South Side, if you've seen that presentation I put together, you can see all that red, the as is. Right? And the decimals are 63, 65, 62, kind of scattered throughout. But the vast majority of that noise hits theirs because they are even higher up. So the most important thing is for me just to communicate. And I hope you're right. Right? We know it works, But the configuration is a little bit different here.

And we just don't want to get going blind thinking we have this perception that it's going to fix the neighbors. And the reality is, based on what the engineering is telling us, is that it's not going to make a difference.

But what we're putting in, is that what was in the Same product. Okay.

Same thing. Yeah. So it's not about the product. It's about the height of the product.

I think it's vitally important that we get this right because we really can't move the Racket Center. The other two sites, Mackle Park only has room for eight courts, so we're just apples to apples anyway. And moving them to Veterans Park, you would have to take over where the Farmers Market is and move Farmers Market back by the clamshell. And I don't think that the citizens want to do that. So we need to make this right. And I think we have to make sure that the sound abatement is exactly what it needs to be, because I don't think we get a second chance at making the neighbors happy.

I guess what happens when this is put up and it's not as expected? What happens then if they spend $45,000 finishing it and find out that it didn't work as intended?

Could be

Oh, that's right. That's right. I'm sorry, Joe. You did say that. Thank you. Sorry about

that. No. It's okay.

JACKIE And there's no way, way, Joe, uh-uh, no way to get that 12 foot at any place there on the court so we could say, hey, Look at you. You can't hear it here, but this is what it's like.

We can't install it on the curtain fence

because Okay.

Yeah. You can't add a 10 foot or a two foot section on there and then have the weight of the panels hanging

from the

two foot.

So it is what it is. Okay. It's a crapshoot.

If you believe the science, it's not gonna make a difference. So that and that's you know? And I think we all understand that. So we're not going into it blind. That's the biggest component here. Alright. I mean, I hope it does. Right? I mean, my goodness. We wanna try to give quality of life to these people. Yeah.

Oh, thank you. Alright. Thank you. Probably won't see you here standing before us for a couple of months, but hopefully we will be holding banners the next time we see you. And with that, can we move on to our next issue, which we are making a presentation before the counsel on Monday, June 15.

And what it is, we as a committee will be talking about or asking them for monies for things that are needed from our, from our bailiwick, from what we have, from the things in Mackle Park, for pickleball well, pickleball, we're putting to the side, but lighting at different places. And we kind of think that probably the thing that we need most is, bless you. The thing that we need most is playground equipment at Mackle Park. And if you have been to Mackle Park and looked closely, it's really awful. From far away, you smile and you think, you know, this is quite a place.

And as you get up closer, you say, my god, the paint is peeling off and look at the rusty nails. This is wetness waiting to happen. So I think we let's talk about what we're asking and what we want the counsel to consider. As you know, money is an issue on Marco Island. So what we ask for, you know, I'm hoping that our priority will be will be met or they will listen, but we've got to ask and we've got to to look at it.

And I think Darren had done some work on the actual playground equipment. Did you want to talk about that a minute?

So certainly, we had the workshop with the Parks Foundation about a month ago. We identified at that point these six probably top level priorities. And I think we can all agree that the playground over at Mackle Park is shameful at best. It is well past its useful life. And through the best efforts of Samantha and Joe and others to keep it working as best they can, it's at the end of its useful life, it needs to be fixed.

So I think we have to go and figure out from council next year we can get any nickels contributed from budget. And then in addition to that, as I stated at the Parks Foundation meeting, I think we need to, a group, a bold vision here for not only Macklem Park, but some of these other projects that we have. And then be working towards donations and gifting in the best way that we can. Because there are people that care about each and every one of these projects in the community. But I think the six or seven of us need to lead that charge along with Samantha and her staff to say, hey, we're going to make this better for the next generation of Marco Island, not only residents, but you know, grandkids and nieces and nephews that come here and visit.

And, you know, this weekend, I just spent some time in the Woodlands, Texas doing Ironman. And one of the things that I thought while I was going through Ironman all weekend was, man, they have some very beautiful parks and very beautiful sitting areas, some very beautiful playground equipment. And, I think we need to get some of our community to come and see, some of what's going on here because I think a lot of what was going on there, we can bring back here. I mean, beautiful park benches and sitting benches and areas to play at different parts of the community. And I think, you know, Matt and I work on the Mackle Park side because he's right.

The field over there needs to be addressed in a significant meaningful way too. There's a lot of people that use the field over there. There are people who care about that field. And I think we can get some donors to help with that. Should we have to be in this position? No. But you know what? Those of us that are up here right now, we didn't make the bed, but we're here. We've got to find creative solutions to this because I think we owe it to the families and the community to do right here. So I'm happy to help Samantha lead the charge on this and figure out what we need to do in order to get the right playground equipment, get some drawings, things like that.

And also, at the same time, I'd like to include in that drawing what we can do with the field. And in addition to that, actually, and it's not on here, the dog park, I've had conversation with one of the residents, Margaret, who helped make that dog park ADA accessible. But right now, she and others like her fry because there isn't one branch of shade anywhere near the areas that they can sit. And I think as a community, when we tell the story of restoring Mackle Park to a crown jewel, I think we will find people who are willing to contribute. But we've got to come with a great plan and then forward figure out how can we get this into the budget so that it's not always going out looking for donors.

And I think that's a longer conversation. But it's kind of like this conversation about pickleball doing two things at one time. I think this is the same conversation that if we're going to make this happen, we're going to have to put the wheels in motion from a donor perspective. Because if we're waiting for the city, we're going to have wood chips for kids to play in. And that's what's going to be left over there.

Questions on that? So do you have a vendor in mind for the equipment yet?

We don't have a vendor. I haven't gotten down that far. Certainly, I think Samantha and maybe Dan or Joe have some vendors potentially in mind. But again, I think that it's important here that we go out looking for a couple of vendors. Because the variation in pricing on some of this stuff can be pretty wide, I think.

I think it'd

be cool

to have a day where we could maybe interview the community and say, like, Dare to Dream or something, have the little kids come and say what they'd like to see on the playground. And secondly, the dog park is currently going to be closed for some upgrades. Do we know what upgrades it's getting?

Just real quick before they answer about the dog park. We've already Joe and I have already met with companies in regards to the playground. So we've already started that process and completely agree with you. We want to get the community involved in it. And one of the things that that I've asked is a couple of like three different options of, you know, one is like a really cool tree idea, another one's a nautical and then another one is more fantasy and get some ideas.

And then I want to bring that back, you know, to Prac and have the community come and give us input. A lot of people are much better with visual. So that's kind of what we were thinking. It's kind of similar to what we've done with some of our, you know, projects that we've done in the past with Veterans Community Park or Mackle Park too, have visuals for people to see. But we definitely have to make sure that we have some funding for this. So that way, we kind of know what we're working for.

Can I ask you? When we go before the council, we I I don't think we should discuss with them having outside people are raising money from others. Should they not should we not just ask them what they're willing to how they're willing to fund any of this. And we don't wanna talk about the parks. To me, I don't wanna give them an out with the Parks Foundation and think that the it's up to us to raise the money. That do we ask the town, this is what we want. Dan, how do you feel about that?

I think that's the most important thing. You have to get the council to support what you're doing to begin with. Yeah. If you remember from the Parks and Rec Master Plan, the number one thing priority was maintain what we have. Yep.

And adding more things that we can't maintain is something that I don't think the public we should be pushing to the public. So right now, we have a playground that is in need of repair. We have to have the city council to bless that and say, yes. We're gonna support this new venture of re of of redoing it before we we go to the citizens. Because what happens is you have to show that the the government is willing to kinda put skin in the game.

Right. And that's what gets you for the fundraiser. That's that they're gonna put, you know, kind of their, like I said, skin in the game on it makes it so much easier to for support from the outside community. I've tried to do it both ways. It sure is a lot easier knowing that that the city is going to support this effort with with funding.

One thing I would like to add to that too, the necessity that we have to get across is with the playground and even with the fields, we're not asking for something that's nice to have. If we're going to continue to allow children on these areas, this is a necessity. It is a safety issue. It's a safety issue with the playground and it's a safety issue with the fields. So we're not trying to make things just simply pretty. We need these fixed because these are becoming safety issues. And they need to know that.

There's no doubt. I mean, the field, when you go over there, it it's in it's in it's in tough shape. And, again, it was probably twenty years ago when somebody said, hey. Let's put let let's let people play soccer here. And five kids are playing, and now there's a lot more than five kids playing. And it it just it it it's not currently set up properly for what all all that happens over there. And that's a good thing that there's a lot happening there. But we've gotta make it right because it just it's not right.

And I brought that up at the workshop too. All the things that need to be for safety, that should be the top of the list, the park and the field. With that being said, you said you're looking into equipment. What they did when they built Mackle Park I mean, Mackle Park used to look beautiful. The benches and stuff are all wearing away. Now my question is, that wasn't all really great weather resistant material that was chosen. I think it's wood. So is this new equipment gonna use? It's gonna be a different material, more weather resistant that's going to last? Maybe less maintenance needed on it? Stuff like that.

Well, I think what you find out is you kinda get what you pay for. Okay. In the situation with Marco Island, I've done this in other communities. Maintenance the the funding for maintenance might be a little bit lacking. So, you wanna spend money upfront to make sure you get the really good equipment, which might be the aluminum, stainless steel, as opposed to the powder coated because that's gonna

Right.

Rust away really quick. Correct. Some of the plastic the one one thing that I found out coming down to Florida is some of these plastic slides and things, they don't they don't last.

They crack.

Yeah. They crack real quick. So those are the things that you have to really look at. It may be you can always say you can buy something a lot cheaper, and we can put that in. But you're not gonna have the maintenance the long term maintenance to repair when,

oh, put a new slide in. That one broke. No, that's That correct. Doesn't happen. I know. JAMES So Okay. That's what I was wondering.

Okay. So when we make our wish list, do we go with two major items instead and of little stuff going around? How do how do you want us or how do you wanna go at that?

Can I bring just so we did our workshop for the parks? Yes. Parks team and the facilities team came with those two items that you just

Right. Spoke and two.

The top two areas of need. So they're aware of it already. I think you jumping on with that with us will help.

Okay. My thing was how would they be? Like, we originally when we at the Parks Foundation meeting, we said 2,000,000 for playground equipment. When we said I see our board members have left, but we're so this is just us guys. But so when we say 2,000,000 for, some swing sets and and equipment, will they kinda grasp their hearts and think, are they crazy? Or do we ask for 2,000,000? Do we give them a dollar amount is what I'm trying to say?

We've already done that.

I think when we gave them the 2,000,000, we explained that that also include redrawing the entire thing with new software.

From top to bottom. Yes. Okay.

That we would remove the PlaySafe bulge.

Then we'll save 2,000,000 from day one till all the kids are there. And then we said 950,000. Now that was Mackle Park, Winterberry Park, the band shell at at Veterans Park, and that was 950,000. Now that was replacing the field and lighting. Do we wanna throw it we wanna do that. That's another package. We've got two packages we want. What do you think?

Oh, it's both Macle

Yeah.

The $9.50 was just for regrading. It did not include the lighting.

No lighting. Uh-huh.

Lighting was on there, but that was a separate number.

This is not an Okay. This is not an inexpensive proposition here. I mean, MacLeod Park is is in need of a fair bit of work.

I think we should just package it as a MacLeod Park upgrade versus You want it taking

it down?

Alright. Do you want it? Alright. That's a thought. Do we do

we wanna say simplify it, and then we could bullet point The what we're gonna

reality here is Mackle Park, the the Bocce Courts area is also in need of some help. Well, it's just the truth. I mean, whether we like the people or not

No. No. No. They they the boys talk about it.

Yeah. Well, it could use some shade. I mean, I spent some time over there, and it's just the reality of it. So if we're gonna make the the the the park world class and better again, I think it deserves some looking into in that whole section. In addition to that, if you go over to the dog park with the shade situation, that needs some work.

We're working through the situation with the trees and other shade, but getting rid of the dead tree stumps and replacing the grass and all of those things. Because it's I mean, like, you shouldn't walk around the park and see 10 dead tree stumps and a bunch of trees with no bark around them. They should all look well kept and they don't. And that's, you know, not not these folks' fault. This is just the hand that is currently been given to them. And

I agree with that. But when we go into the budget, there's going to be a certain dollar amount that they have. And if we keep asking for more and more and we put all of this in one bucket, they're going to be like, We just don't have enough money for that. And then put it aside. I would like to focus on the stuff that are more safety concerns because I think we have a better opportunity of getting support for that. And we can still include the other stuff that we definitely want to do. But the safety stuff, I don't want to lose that. I want them to really we have to do something. If weire not going to completely redo it, there's something that we have to do to get it where it's safe. And that's the playground in the fields.

Is Mackrell Park the only one that has the safety issues? The other parks are fine?

Brian is what Brian is saying is

I'm

trying to we walk in and say, we need you. Mackle Park is our crown jewel. We need you to make it safe and playable, and it's for the town. Do we just ask for things for Mackle Park and make it I know Winterberry, the senior senior ball guys are are working on it. And I don't know about Veterans Park. But should we make this

So it I think if we're going to take this as massive safety

Yeah.

Safety package. And we've put that all in that one package. And is that kind of better what you're looking for to make sure that

Echo Park needs your help, that it's crumbling right before our which it is. It's crumbling right before our eyes.

I should add, though, with regards to the field at Mackle Yeah. Obviously, the safety is is number one. But we wanna make sure that from the discussions I've had with the the group at OCMI and some other, individuals that have helped with fields around the city, we wanna make sure that we do it correct the first time. So there's conversation of, you know, making sure it's big enough for multisport use, the possibility of putting bleachers, right, for fans and and coming in and drawing the, community to that park for local games with the schools or OCMI, and the other, local rec leagues that we have playing there. And then, you know, possibly a concession stand like they have at Winterberry.

Right? Something that is going to draw the community there consistently throughout the year.

I think her concern is that might be raising it too much. So I think we need to focus on the field flattening.

But if we do just a lipstick, hey. We made it safe by regrading it and putting the sod down, That's not do like, now we have to go back to the drawing board. Okay. Now let's let's

But you're just wanting to add structures and

But if we're talking field and and playground, right, that is it. Here's how the field's gonna look. Here's how the playground's gonna look.

But the field will be done correctly and graded properly so it can do multi sport because that's going to be the design of that project, right? Then you want to add bleachers and stuff. That can be done after the fields are done, can't it? That's not gonna affect the

safety part. Would that be something that could be done as a fundraising, something that

That would definitely benefit the marketing of the Okay. Job.

So if we got if we threw ourselves on the mercy of the council and we said, we need the money for the playgrounds, it's a necessity. For the fields, there are all these children that are there. And we would we'd start with this, that maybe through we can't use the word foundation. We're not talking talking about that. But that could be something that could be funded by the Parks Foundation. That's one of that's the kind of stuff they're looking for.

I I I would agree with with that. So I I I would say that if we're gonna go, we take playground as a safety issue, because it is. I mean, it's in tough shape. And the field, and if that's going to be one package, I'm going to get Joe, do you have a ballpark number on grading and drainage and sprinkler? Do you have any clue of what that currently that number is just just just at Mackle Park?

I don't just for Mackle. The entire price was $9.50, but that did not include any irrigation. That was just regrading inside.

Yeah. See, but that's not what's needed there. What's needed there is a crowning, a filling, a crowning,

Oh, that's

part of it?

No. Like Okay. This was like, if if if it's to be done right in for the few like, we have to think about this is twenty years from now. Like, is this gonna be good enough for twenty years? Not for two years.

Right.

And if you go over there, when when Matt made me aware of the wetness problem, that was a year ago already, before rainy season. It was about this time of the year last year. And you go over there, and it's darn wet in spots even when it's not raining. And it's all because of the way that it doesn't drain. So in order to do this right, and do it right the first time, I think we have to go ask for the moon and the stars. And whatever number that we're short, we're going to have to figure out how to make that happen.

Well, was the whole field safety thing. I thought that included the proper rounding of it, the proper leveling of it, the grading of it, whatever. So then that needs to go back to estimates.

Yeah. It needs it needs we need to know what the the real number is.

Yeah. Do we have to get you tell me. Do we have to give them a number? Or do we say when we go before the council, this is what we need at Mackle Park? The fields need they need from top to bottom. The fields need working. We don't we're not gonna ask them for, stands or a concession stand. We want the fields to start all over. We need irrigation. We need leveling. We need whatever that takes. Do we have to give them a number as to how much that cost? Or do we just say this is what we want? You tell me.

I personally don't think that they're expecting you as a committee to have the number. Okay. It's something that they're interested and want the staff to look further into. That's probably how they'll direct it. And just from my experience of working here for so long and the fact that, you know, we don't increase, you know, the taxes and stuff for our residents, a lot of times what happens is one of the costs that we'll give them to is how much is it going to cost to maybe not make it perfect, but make it as safe as we can too.

So most likely that's going to be something that we're going to have to come back to them as well. What's the basic that we can do to make it where it is safe versus how much is it going to cost to make it where it's really what we want and something that we'll be proud of.

950,000 quite the number to say that's the basic and find out that that's not gonna last to have to do it again in two years and spend $3,000,000. I'm just, you know, just throwing it out there. So I like how they said, do it right the first time, and then you won't have this problem ongoing.

Is it an option instead of a concessions thing to have, like, a food truck area there for when there's a bunch of games? Could we do something like that? Doesn't cost us anything. We just need pads.

Well, I think you just answered your own question. It doesn't cost anything,

but you

have to add pads. Yeah. What does that look like?

Yeah. Well, it

Different than

And it comes down to space and Yeah.

Yeah.

Things like that and Yeah. You know, along those lines. But I think, Joe, right, like I mean, we wanna think about this the right way the first time instead of this patch wheel like, patching it along. I mean

So oh, look. Of course. We wanna shoot for the stars like what you're asking for. We were just mostly just trying to get the fields to be in the best condition that they could without asking for so much that we knew it was going to get shot down.

So what I was trying to lead to is, is there a way of putting together some sort of brainstorming before this June 15 date so that we can put together what we need and present it correctly.

Are you we could a we could look into doing a workshop in May instead of you guys having a meeting, if that's what you wanna do.

Okay. We could.

But we'd we'd need to, like, leave there with, like, this is what's gonna what's the presentation's gonna look like and Do we need what we're

that to give them or is that do we have to do that? You tell me. You tell us. Do we need a finished product to show them when we ask for the money? Or they or is are we just is it something that we have the workshop after?

Well, I would say that in June, we're already a little bit behind when it comes to the budget process. So I would say you would want to be as prepared as you possibly can be.

Some renderings or something like just basic AI renderings?

The more you have, the better.

At least for the field.

I mean, think we can reach out with direction here to somebody. You know, I I've got a source that we could probably use to to get something. Right. But I think, ultimately, when we go to to counsel Dolores, I think it's as simple as we need to take a couple of photos of the situation with the current playground

Yep. Go ahead.

Because it's in tough shape. And then the puddles and other situations in the field and understand why this needs to be corrected. And, you know, then I think say, hey, this is what we need for the playground equipment knowing what that is. And then the the field maybe as a separate number so that they're not lumped as one.

I I think what I'm hearing there, and this is probably the translation that has to be made to city council. What is your expectations? And what are what are you willing to do for those expectations? What happens is I hear the, you know, the high expect or these high expectations and everything, but then it kinda got dies by by the time it gets to the the budget meetings. Mhmm.

I remember a few years back, and you and you some of you might remember, there was a certain person on this board that wanted shade structures in the playground. And she worked for a whole year on putting plans together, talking to contractors. She put a plan together and she showed up on her own at a budget meeting. And guess what? We got shade structures in those playgrounds.

And it was like it was one of those things where she was willing just to take put her time together and show exactly what her expectations were, and and they and they translate into success. And I think those are the things that I think need to happen to let the council know really it's really important to you. You're right. Crowning the crowning soccer fields, I've been doing those for thirty years. We they're not done that way. Now the farmer's market has done pretty good, but we still have some spots in there that and that's that's more or less a irrigation issue that we have in some cases. But I understand what you're saying, but that takes money. And those are those are the expectations the community has to translate to the city council that this is what we want.

Yeah. I I I think it's important we as as a as a a committee, we have to set the expectation and vision here that the current current process is not acceptable any longer. And I don't think the community really believes the current process is acceptable anymore. I think the people that are moving here want to have a beautiful park. They want to show the parks off to their families when they come here.

And when you come here and it's a beautiful beach and beautiful this and you go there and you're like, look at this swing set And look at these pickets that are falling off. And look at you know, that that that's not what it that it it it doesn't work. So I think as we set the vision, we're gonna have to lead this charge. And hopefully, we can get the money from from council. But if not, whatever that balance is, we're gonna have to figure that out.

Because otherwise, we're gonna be stuck with wood chips because at some point, it will be like the park in Naples. They had to take their place at down. Right? They closed it at that park because that was their main park, Canberra Park, but they had issues and they had to shut So it next year, do you want a repeat of the urination situation where we gotta shut it down during season and have wood chips for kids to play in? I mean, that's really the reality. I mean, that's that's what this is that's what this will come to.

It's almost five. Sam, can we ask you you said you had some, you had three park three playground schematics, let's say. Do you have could we could I ask you or could you give me the name of the company, and we could maybe ask them how much it would cost so that we had something, pictures. I don't know if we need a workshop or we couldn't just talk about it here at our meeting. If we had something for the playground and then for the, for the fields, I don't know.

How do we go about getting a price as to somebody who are is there a company that does that? Matt would know.

Dollars 2,000,000 is kind of our estimate for the playgrounds. We already have that.

All right. And for the We've

had some conversations between myself and the Sabrinos with OCMI about, obviously, getting a surveyor out there and stuff like that. But there's going be an upfront cost, I would believe, to get somebody out there to really do it correctly. So it'd be either seeing if we can get some sort of in kind exchange from the somebody that knows somebody or we have to find that money somehow to to get that done. And

how do we That's an idea. Yeah. Yeah. And how does that get done? Or are we what happens there for the field? You tell us. We I we don't have any idea. So we just we could say, you know, I don't know if we need a workshop to talk about. We know what we want, and Matt could certainly tell us everything that needs to be done for the field at Mackle Park. That's his business. And

put a

pretty picture together. Okay. Getting down to the exact dollar is gonna cost to get that.

Well, even if we had a pretty picture and we can make up a we could make up a number. But if we had some playground I to show them, this is what if it was a fairy land or this is what, the astronaut playground would look like. And we had a ballpark figure that they gave us. Just something concrete. I think Dan's right.

I well, I think we we have, you know, Joe and Samantha put together a number. And what happens is, from that number, now you can go out and and you can do if we know it's gonna be funded, you would find out a lot of landscape architecture or playground companies will come together with their rendering. Because you can do that so easy right now with their equipment. We were doing that thirty years ago, but they're not gonna do it if they know it's not gonna get funded. I mean, that's it in a nutshell. It makes it so much easier knowing you're So gonna fund we

go for the funding and ask

You for it go for the funding. Now as far as, like, the the parks and the the crowning and everything, that's gonna take an engineer. You're not gonna be able to Alright. That could take up take up to $10,000 to do an engineering, dollars 15,000 doing

So Sam, it's up to you and I to sell that.

I'll do it if I should. Yes. What I'm following here is basically, I think everybody's giving up on everything but two of these items.

I would say prioritizing.

Yeah, we're prioritizing. I wasn't giving up.

I just prioritizing the safety one. What I hear though is basically, you're conceding them, Okay? And with that, I think one of the primary obligations would be the general park maintenance in general just as a major ticket item. And also, I think I heard basically, we're not coming up with any dollar numbers. It goes over to staff at the dollar numbers. So we only have one meeting again before June. And what do we do next?

You what do you think? Just is it is coming back to this meeting, do we need a workshop? If we're not gonna give them anything concrete and we're just gonna talk, I don't know that we need a workshop. Am I correct?

That's up to you guys as the committee. Do you wanna talk in this manner? Do you want to have a workshop? What would you like to do?

I mean, Joe, on this field situation, I I have to believe that there's somebody who will give you a relatively close number on the field relative to size scope square footage and that stuff.

Yeah. We actually had numbers given to us from multiple contractors. That's how we came with nine fifty.

Is that just for Mackle?

No. That was for Mackle, that was for Winterberry, and that was for not Right. Where the Banshells, but where the Farmers Market is.

Right. But that wasn't for, like, the crowning

To what Dan said, though, that's different. We need to if you we have to get a civil engineer involved to do that, then that's a fee that we don't have available to us. So I can't you know, I mean, I can't give you the price on that.

Just so you know, when we did the fields for Winterberry, we did because that that had a major drainage problem. We had to hire an engineer. I believe it was roughly about 70 or $80,000 to do the engineering plan for that. It might have been even more than that, maybe close to $100,120. And that was just to try to get the water off the fields because they were flooding. Yeah. And we had a and so they had a from that, we actually did a plan that they put new pipe in, new kinds of gravel. It worked. It helped. Was it the the what I would have done at that time, we were doing it on a on a on a tight budget.

It was a

There's things that we there's things we could have done a lot better. Mercedes. Yeah. And and that's that's and that's ultimately why we still have a little bit of flooding issues that are out there that we we need to correct.

Right. And that's why I think here, like, we gotta be adamant. Like, why do this two times? Why why like, why do this twice? Like, that field over at Mackle is used a lot. I mean, there's a lot of people over there. They're walking. They're working out. They're playing soccer. Like, it's used a lot.

I mean, you paid for that. How come they didn't come back and fix your flooding problem if you still have it and you paid for that service to not have flooding? Was there a hole that they missed and they need to come back and fill it in? I'm just wondering how that worked.

I think how it works is sometimes we for lack of a better term, we project what we're willing to pay and the engineers gonna put together what he thinks we're willing to pay as opposed to Okay. You know, I I don't know the best to explain it, but Yeah. A lot of times, we'll give them a budget and they'll do it based on that budget, not really what is the best

And they won't do

any course of action.

Okay.

Because they're because now you're talking about new sidewalks because the elevations of the sidewalks and the roads and the existing landscaping. And there's parking lots there too that you're gonna have to address because now you're you're making changes to the grades.

Got it. Okay.

Oh, boy. Well, that expands it. Well, then I think let let's just plan on us having a meeting next month, and we will talk about this one more time. But we've narrowed it down to Mackle Park. And the town, I'm hoping, will take pity on the children in us and open their wallets for this.

And I don't know. I look at when everything that they're doing, there's not money for much of anything. And it it it kind of we really have to sell the fact that it's not safe and, you know, what are we doing to our Okay. Let's give it our best shot. And and what they don't do or they can't do, maybe we can do with the Parks Foundation. And there's things

Also, maybe we can I won't be at the next meeting, but maybe we could go around and get some pictures of all the things that are broken on the playground and present that?

Can show that. Did you do that? Oh, I thought you were raising your No.

He was Two minute warning. They were that's a two minute warning. Oh, okay.

I was just showing all the bad pictures of Marco Island basically showing how the fish is

approved. Rust and the yes. That's Oh, definitely. Yeah. They will have pictures. They'll have pictures of Mackle Park and how bad it looks. And this is and we don't I you're probably right. We don't have to show them what we're gonna do, but we can show them what we have and what needs to be done. Okay? We've done it. It's $4.58. Can I hear hear a move to Wait?

We have one

Can I make an person

that might wanna speak? Yeah.

Can I make an announcement?

Nothing to say.

Just real quick. This is our first time we're having a teen bike event. I just want to mention it. It's on May 1. It's at Veterans Community Park. We're partnering with OCMI and also the Island Bike Shop. Have both groups have spent so much time planning and organizing this event for our teens. When I say teens, we're actually going to do incoming sixth graders all the way to twelfth graders. We're going to have food. We're going to have music.

And for those and the parents, want to make sure that you're aware if your child is going to participate riding a bike and doing they're going to have a couple of fun things for them to to ride on. They do have to sign a waiver, but it's open to anybody that wants to come and just enjoy. But we're gonna we're gonna mention some and have a discussion. The police department will