City Council - Regular Meeting

all right good afternoon it is one o'clock Thursday August 27th and welcome to our Collier County Commissioners and Marco Island City Council joint workshop has a little laundry list of a few things rules of decorum are in effect for counselors for commissioners for staff and for attendees if you could please silence your phones and put them on vibrate also a reminder for the commissioners and for the counselors your mics you need to turn them on to comment if not they'll be hot and they'll hear everything so turn them on when you're ready to speak Bathrooms, if anybody needs, are to my left-hand side here. We have water, coffee, tea, cookies, and some snacks in the kitchen over here to my front right. Commissioner McDaniel, did they meet your approval?

The cookies are not any good.

I think there's a little joking going on there, I suspect. I seen you eating two of them. Jim, would you please call the roll?

Councilor Henry? Here. Councilor Goler? Here. Councilor Dong? Here. Vice Chair Champagne? Here. Councilor Schwan? Here. Councilor Gray? Here. Chair Palumbo?

Here.

Commissioner LoCastro? Here. Commissioner Hall? Here. Commissioner Saunders? Here. Vice Chair McDaniel? Here. Chair Colwell?

Here. All right, we're all here. If you are able, please stand. Commissioner LoCastro is going to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

If you're a veteran, you're allowed to do a hand salute.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible,

All right, guys, we're on to item four, the business we're here for. A couple of thoughts. As this is informal, right, and for those watching or attending, this is a workshop. We don't vote. We don't give consensus. This is a conversation. This is a thought on some directions and basically brainstorming and sharing ideas. County commissioners, manager, Patterson, I appreciate, and everybody else, you shut up. We appreciate you coming down to Marco. It's been a while since we got together, so we've been looking forward to this for a while. Hands, a little raise if you don't want to talk or just jump right in, but if we don't see you, just give us a wave and we'll make sure we get you in the list of topics. All right, discussion of topics.

Mr. Chair, anything you want to add before we, any thoughts or ideas before we get started?

I didn't mean to.

No, I think we're all right. Let's just go ahead and dive right into it. Like we had discussed previously, there's a couple items that we might want to bring the county manager up just to give us some more insight on procedural things, because it might come up against things that The county and the local city don't have really jurisdiction to address on our own, but might have to bring a third party in like the state or the feds so they can kind of bring us up to speed on some of those items when we come across them. That way we're not wasting a lot of valuable time discussing something that we can't really work out ourselves here, but they can then brief us on what we can do or how we can bring other parties in to help us. So just a heads up on that.

And we have both of our managers here and we know, I think I'd be remiss if I didn't say that the backbone of both of these commissions and councils, without them, things would be difficult. Yes.

Please, absolutely. I appreciate it. You know, as a District 1 commissioner, I mean, I can walk here from my house, so I'll probably have the shortest drive. I just wanted to make a few opening comments. First, I want to thank our county manager and the city manager for working so closely together. We've been discussing this joint session for quite some time, and although I've read, like, you know, Whose idea was it? It's often been said there's no amount of good you can do if you don't care who gets the credit. And I think we all deserve the credit, or maybe nobody does. But at the county, not only were we looking forward to this meeting, but we have on the calendar a joint session with the city of Naples. We're possibly meeting with the city of Everglades. And we're even meeting with Lee County Commissioners. Something I had said to Chairman Plumbo is you all may want to get together and meet with the City of Naples even though you might not have that much overlap. As separate municipalities, comparing notes on how you work with the county and how you do things internally could be a great idea. So that might be something to take a look at. I really welcome this gathering, and when I was talking to Commissioner Colwell, because we'll obviously be doing this with the city of Naples, this is a good opportunity for us to separate rumors from facts, but also I know that on Marco a lot of citizens watch this on TV, and sometimes I can tell by the emails I get, and I'm sure by the ones that city council gets, even citizens that have lived on the island for a really long time often are confused by the separation of responsibilities. I'll get an email saying you should do this, you should do this, you should do this. And I said, well, that's actually your seven elected city councils. And also, I appreciate when the city council or the city manager pushes me a note and says, hey, this is all county. So I think we do a great job. And I wanted to really voice my appreciation for how well I believe that we are working together. I did want to say that, and we'll probably hear some of this when we meet with the City of Naples, that any of us think this is a one-time deal we can continue to discuss and if an issue comes up and we can't answer it here or we're not here to have a big long debate, as Chairman Palumbo said, we certainly can take some things as homework assignments. I'll close by saying I thank the city council for how they interact with me and with the county as a whole. I know we've had an awful lot of successes that I'm sure we're all proud of, but we still have a lot of work to do. There's a lot of moving parts on this island and across the county, and so I think it's great that we finally all came together, and I'm sure this won't be the last time we do this.

Well, thank you, Commissioner Lacascio. We appreciate that. We appreciate your service to the city. Naturally, we have city needs, right? We are city councilors, and we have things that focus on our community. But please, we're part of the county also, so it works both ways. What can we do for you also? What can we do for Collier County? So if you have any thoughts or ideas, we're all in this paradise together. A couple quick announcements before we get started. We do have our city attorney, David Tulses, on Zoom call if anybody has a question. And also, if you're signed up or if you would like to public speak, please make sure there's slips behind me that you could sign up for public speaking, hand it to the staff to my right. And under item five, we'll have citizens' comments at the end of the meeting. All right, let's get started, guys. First one, Collier County sales tax. Commissioner, it's probably no surprise. We're a very conservative community. We have a spending cap. Our citizens are certainly fiscally responsible. We view this, and I'll speak for myself, not just the whole council. We view this as ever more important to talk about, even though we all ran on low taxes. We all ran on physical conservatism. It's not even a word. I apologize. Being fiscally conservative. But with Amendment 3 coming up, With the fact that we're going to need new revenue sources, this one catches our eye because it's also heavily used by tourists, visitors, guests who spend money here. So the burden is spread out, but it's also spread out for those who enjoy our communities. So we certainly would like you to consider the possibility of putting this back on a ballot. Of course, that's ultimately your decision. But we'll open it up for conversation. Anybody want to jump in or a quick hand sign if you want to comment on this? Please, Commissioner Saunders.

Just a quick comment. I think I have this turned on now. When this tax passed in 2018, there's a little bit of history there that I think is important going forward. That tax initiative was brought to the County Commission by the Chamber of Commerce. And they had tremendous public support for that sales tax. They had tremendous support from the business community. And so we placed that on the ballot. Now it was placed on the ballot on a three to two vote. So there was division on the county commission. The Chamber of Commerce spent quite a bit of money developing a campaign. They hired a consultant from Palm Beach County to run the campaign. They ran this as a professional campaign and the county joined in. I mention that because that tax passed by a quarter of a percent It was barely taxed, but it was heavily supported by the business community and there was money behind it. So if we go forward with another sales tax initiative over the next two years, then the message is it has to come from the community, it has to have support, and there has to have a campaign or you're just wasting time. And now if you take a look at just the atmosphere for taxes, it's a whole lot worse now than it was in 2018. So it's probably not gonna get much better over the next year. And so it's a tough sell. I have no problem considering placing it on a ballot. And I'm sure the county commission will entertain that thought over the next year or two. However, it must be something that's well thought out.

And well said, and there's nothing better than putting something to the citizens and letting them decide. You saw, most of you probably followed our bond referendum. One vote, every vote counts. I know you were on the recount, I saw you.

Overwhelmingly supported by the citizens of March 1st.

So it's certainly these conversations, we tread lightly on them, right, with the word taxation, but resources funds do need to be made up somewhere so we can appreciate your open-mindedness uh towards this anybody else want to uh commissioner lacastro and then we'll go to commissioner counselor henry yeah i'll add something so um i just want to point out uh chris johnson is in our audience from the county and um he has everything budget and money

I mean, if we sent him up to Tallahassee right now, he would run circles around some of those folks up there. He really is a subject matter expert and MVP on our team. So if Chris has anything to chime in, but when he and I were speaking about this, because this has been on our agenda, it wasn't any kind of big surprise, one of the things he said is, Commissioner, we've actually seen some e-mails or some early on that was talking about putting it on like this November. And he made it clear to us immediately that even if we decided today, the soonest it could be on a ballot would be 2028. So this is one that we'll have to think about. Commissioner Saunders said it perfectly. This is one to continue to talk about. And if it has citizen support, we don't want to just throw something out there and kind of see what happens. And also, we have something on the ballot this November, the tourist tax. You know, even if we could put it on in November, we don't want a whole lineup, you know, where we're sitting here saying we want to reduce taxes, and then it's like, hey, well, you consider these 11 different, you know, tax proposals. But obviously between now and 2028, well, before that, this will be something we want to continue to discuss. So for those people that are out there listening, it's not something we can throw on the November ballot. There's a time frame involved, and 2028 would be the soonest it could be considered.

Thank you. Can you hear me okay? One of the things, and it kind of goes into the big picture with the 1% tax that's going on the ballot this November, and the fact that that is spearheaded completely for the sports complex. It's not? No. This is why we have conversations. Please.

Yeah, if I might.

Please, absolutely.

We are restricted by law from putting 100% of that into the sports complex. Okay. There's a certain percentage, I believe it's 60%, but we have folks that can answer that. But no, this is a tax that will go on for a long time. And the first priority is in terms of that 60% portion is going to be to complete the Paradise Coast Sports Complex. But this is going to go on, there will be money for advertising and other types of beach projects and things.

Well, I think I would love to have more of that conversation to understand that because that's for the reason if we're going to put that 1% tax on now, knowing how the plan of distribution, but there are decisions you guys make. Our citizens pay a whole lot of taxes to Collier County. The 1% tax will be paid by our citizens as well as tourists, but we need to know what's coming to us in order to know to support it.

Okay. Absolutely correct. Please. The citizens of Marco Island, thank you, Mr. Chair. Please. The citizens of Marco Island, if they stay at a hotel or eat at a restaurant where the TD tax is collected, then the citizens of Marco Island would be paying it. That's a tax.

It's not a 1% sales tax. It's purely on the head tax for hotels and such.

Yes, ma'am. It's a TDT tax, tourist development tax. Okay. And then we are relegated by statute as to where those funds can go. And so that's the rationale.

And I think that needs to be clarified because I think most people are thinking this is a 1% sales tax. Well, let's clarify it if my microphone's working.

It's not a 1% sales tax.

And I think that's something that needs to be projected to the public.

And then on the 1% sales tax, I was one of the two dissenting votes when that came through the last time. It did pass by less than one half of 1% of the people that showed up to particularly vote that year. I concur wholeheartedly with Commissioner Saunders with regard to the impetus behind it. If we're going to do it, there has to be a plan and an investment that, in fact, is made. I have to share out loud, I am not in favor of it. I am NOT in favor I wasn't in favor of it before it did do an enormous amount of good for our community because of the dedication of those funds that was stipulated where those funds were going to be be invested but I think with the climate that we're currently in right now, the unknown that we're all about to face coming here in November, whether or not that referendum that's on the ballot this fall passes or not, we have to wait and see, number one. Number two, we have to wait for the legislature in Tallahassee to put the bumpers on to say, because they have to write legislation after this constitutional amendment passes or doesn't. then the legislation has to come out of the legislature as to how that money is going to go, because they've obligated to assist municipalities and special districts with regard to potential revenue funding shortages that could transpire if that referendum in fact passes. So before I'm going to commit to any kind of additional taxation, I have to wait and see with regard to what's going to in fact transpire here.

Okay. I think Commissioner Saunders had his hand up first. We'll come back to you.

Just real quickly, and Council Henry, I think what you just said really points out the difficulty that we do have. Because you mentioned the citizens of Marco Island and then Commissioner McDaniel mentioned restaurants. Restaurants don't collect this tax unless they happen to be having a room that they rent out. So the point that I'm making is that this is a tax on short-term rentals. That's it, hotels, Airbnbs. And the difficulty, and we're the folks that really know what's going on, and still there's confusion. We have a campaign to educate the public that this is a tax on tourists and only tourists. The citizens of Marco Island aren't going to pay it unless they stay on Airbnb and so That's a critical message to get out. Then also, going back years ago, I think Marco Island collected about 25% of the tourist tax collected in the county. It was a big number. I don't know what percentage goes back into Marco Island directly, but you're right. You collect an awful lot of it, and hopefully Marco is getting its fair share. I don't know the answer to that. But we need to educate the public, and that's why we have a campaign going on now for this November ballot issue.

Like just throw a little more clarification on that too because it's we don't collect that tax either You gotta understand the hotel industry collects that tax then their responsibilities are distributed to the state and then everything is divvied back up and then like you said like Commissioner Saunders says we don't know You know how that division comes or I don't know personally know what Marco gets back from that, you know directly but I know we get a portion and then we're handcuffed on what part we can spend on what and this and that. It probably needs to be looked at in the future by Tallahassee on some of these strings attached to it, but that's something for a later date. But that's a lot of people in Miss Clover misunderstood that they think we collect that tax, but typically it's collected by the industry, not us. So I'll just let you know that.

Thank you. I have a question. Commissioner Lacastro is going to be next, and I'll get to you.

I think the other clarification isn't just for citizens but it's to the media, to your comment. I've seen articles that call it basically the sports complex tax and as Commissioner Saunders said it could be if it passes in November for many other things but also too even if one, two, all of the commissioners here think the sports complex should be the key benefactor say of this tax. We all have to decide that. So it's not like it's passed in November and all of a sudden millions are automatically thrown in the sports complex. I can tell you there might be one or two of us here that aren't quite convinced. So we'll wait and see what happens in November and that money would get collected, but how it is spent still needs to be presented, agreed upon. It's not an automatic. So there's been a lot of news media articles that make it just sound like automatically if it's passed, millions just get siphoned to the sports complex, and that's not true. It will be a pot of money. Commissioner Cole explained it perfectly. That doesn't immediately come to us. And then if we want to chip away at that or utilize it in some way, I'm sure there will be a lot of presentations, not just from the sports complex.

A follow-up and then I'll go to the next chair, please.

Well, just a clarification. The county commission passed a resolution indicating that the first expenditure for this tax would be the sports fields at the facility. Now, I asked the board to do that because I needed the tourist industry to support this tax. And because of that, because of our commitment to the Paradise Coast Park and those sports fields to provide diamond sports for the summertime, The Florida Restaurant and Lodging Association is running a campaign in support of this because they know that will generate tourism in the summer. So there is a commitment on the part of the commission, and it's been distributed to the public, that we're going to build those fields with the first portion of that, that first 60%. But again, that other 40% goes to everything else. So we do have that commitment, though, on that first portion.

Thank you.

Councillor Champagne. Thank you. I think my basic question is how is Marco Island assured there will be in the allocation of this six cent tax when it is assuming the positive it passes? Are we automatically a beneficiary, or do we have to apply for each and every opportunity that we can identify? I would prefer, obviously, as a city councilor, that we're one of the identified beneficiaries of whatever money is collected and allocated. Is the island automatically? Who is the money allocated to?

Here she comes already. I kind of thought that might be it.

Oh, good morning, or good afternoon. I'm Amy Patterson. I'm the county manager, and thank you so much for having us. First, just a matter of housekeeping on your questions about where people can find out more information on this initiative. We have a full schedule and fact sheet at collierTDT.com. We have 12 informational meetings going on. Actually, the second one is tonight at the South Regional Library. There will be one on Marco Island on the 30th of September. So folks that are interested, we're having these meetings throughout the county so that people can come and find out the factual information on the tourist development tax and the uses of this proposed sixth cent. So, the answer to your question is both. There are things that automatically come to Marco and opportunities for Marco to receive supplemental tourist development dollars. So, our beach renourishment program and some of the navigable passes are in our coastal zone program and those are regular recipients of tourist development dollars for those projects. You recall Tigertail Beach and Sand Dollar Island is a new one that's made its way onto that project list and has been supported by tourist development dollars, beach re-nourishment, the dune plantings, and some of the other inlet dredgings. similar to the city of Naples we plan to work with your staff on some of your other needs that may be coastal related or tourism related and you have the opportunity to come through the tourist development process to request additional dollars so the answer is is both there are there's money that is in the program for Marco and the potential for Marco to request additional dollars from the program oh and you do receive marketing dollars via Indirectly via the hotels that receive those dollars down here on Marco Island.

Thank you for that. You're welcome answer but continuing along on that vein Will so continuing to assume the positive that it passes Do you eventually publish the allocation list by item by project by city

By every year we go through our annual budget process which includes that process for the award of the tourist development dollars to the various entities both public and private as well as the work plans for the county so that's through our coastal zone county museums and any other recipients so yes this is an annual process.

And when you publish that data Are we free as a city to further publish it to make sure people are fully aware of where this money is being allocated and what projects?

Yes, sir. These are all public records.

And for the informational meeting you're going to be holding, and I say thank you for doing that, more information is better than less, will you produce a document on what you're going to be discussing orally so that we can put it on social media so people can read it?

Yes, sir. Again. We have the full schedule and a fact sheet currently at Collier tdt.com So you could either pull that information down for as the city or you could link to it.

Okay, very good Thank you. You're welcome. I can give you a quick example of the But what the county managers told you there's certain programs that automatically get money generator from the TDC Now a quick example a few years back the Naples peer project So they had a little bit of shortfall going into it. They documented in a request through us to get an additional monies, and we got that monies granted through a grant through TDC. It was like a $3 million grant towards the project, because you can articulate that it's definitely a tourism item. So that way, the state, they're okay with that. But you can't, if you just want to resurface a road or something, you've got to understand, you can't dip into those pots. But that's a perfect example how they got an additional $3 million for a particular project that's definitely related to tourism that typically is not in the bundle they get on a regular basis. So just to give you an idea.

Understood. Councilor Goldery, I have your hand up.

I just have one question about the tourist development tax. I know we get back the percentage that goes, amount that goes for taking care of the beaches. Honey, it's not working. Is it? Okay. All right. So I don't want to be too loud either. So what is the process that we can actually, as a municipality, come and ask for more funds? I understand that wear and tear that comes from that. We love our tourists. They help our economy, without a doubt. And they keep our businesses grow and prosper. But at the same time, we have a lot of wear and tear. as well. And I know the infrastructure perhaps is not part of the tourist development tax but is there any other way, any other funds that we can ask for as a refund to our municipality?

Hello, Amy Patterson again. So for tourist development, they're statutorily controlled dollars. So it's prescribed what they can be spent on. Typically, we understand the tourism promotions and marketing. That's one section. We understand those direct benefit, the beaches, inlets, and those other direct tourism. However, there are the ability to use tourist development dollars on some types of infrastructure for a certain amount of money provided that there is a study commissioned that proves that that infrastructure benefits tourism so it's not an absolute answer however each project has to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis and so if it's not a specifically prescribed like the promotions or like our beach activities, then there's a different process that you would go through to make that request. It requires an independent study and other things. So we can certainly work with your staff on that as well as any of your projects that have a direct relationship I can give another example, the city of Naples had a project at Louder Milk Park that they were going to use one funding source for and we chatted with them and said this may be a more appropriate use for tourist development and we're able to get them through that process to use tourist development taxes for that project. So this is really a collaborative effort between the staffs of the cities and the county to evaluate these projects and try to get them into the right lane for funding.

I have a follow-up. Please. Please, Councillor Swan. Thank you very much. My follow-up question is Marco Island used to have two representatives on the TDC board. Right now we're dropped down to one. Our chair, Darren, serves on it.

Did a second let me from the matter always the Marriott is a side of it. Yes, but he's a Marquine resident.

Okay. Well good because that's something that's very important that Marco Island does have representation.

So, thank you And I'm going to volunteer Commissioner to the Castro to come to one of your future

City Council meetings with our staff Chris Johnson and go through the statutory requirements how that money is divvied up by statute where it can go what it can be used for so on and so forth to better clarify for because some of it is as Amy has said can be used for infrastructure, but you have to delineate and They don't just throw it at you. And so it's a rather involved. It's not that complicated. I actually figured it out. But maybe Rick will volunteer. Commissioner LeCastro will volunteer.

We appreciate you volunteering. We'd like to see him.

Thanks.

Anything would help. I wanted to address Councilman Champagne's question about what can we do. The best feedback I can give you is a couple things. Have the city manager and the county manager work together. The biggest mistake that I've seen, and I sat on the TDC as a board, we all take turns on the board so we don't get elected, we all take turns every year so we can learn a lot. But the biggest mistake that I see is different groups, municipalities and others jumping the gun a little bit too quick. We want this amount of money for this one thing. No details, no background, no nothing. And so, you know, it really needs to come as a package and it has to be well thought out. And that's where our county manager can help somebody. Sometimes my advice is you're not ready yet to submit. So I'll see a draft of something and I'll be like, compared to other packages I've seen, this is one of the thinnest things, asking for the most money. It's not going to come before the board 15 different times. I don't know that I need to come to a city council meeting, but I will tell you, Chris Johnson sitting back there, every time I steer him in the direction of somebody, he's like, hey, I'll call their cell phone number right now. He's somebody that could be very helpful, but our county manager can certainly, the county staff is there to also help the municipalities and when we see multiple inputs from across the board we might have, we definitely have a lot more visibility into the best strategy to submit something and what a lot of times when something doesn't have enough meat on the bone it doesn't meet with approval and the details were there it just the right person really didn't package it or didn't have experience doing it and you're competing with a lot of of different other entities who are all asking for for money so having something that's really complete well thought out and maybe has been vetted a bit by the county staff before it makes its formal, you know, turn in would be the best advice I can get. And I can always help with that if it's for Marco. And I would pull in our subject matter experts on the county to make sure that it got every set of eyeballs on it so that it got a strong look. Yes, sir.

I see Commissioner Saunders and then we'll get to Commissioner Gray. Why don't we give one more go around for this topic, guys? Commissioner Saunders.

This is a request that the city of Markle Island get behind this tourist tax. I had asked the board to put this on the agenda on the ballot, I guess, six or eight months ago. And I figured if there was going to be a tax that's going to pass, this is the one that can pass. The message is that it's on our tourists, but our citizens benefit from this. Beach renourishment, advertising for more tourists to fill our restaurants and our hotels. But I also want to point out one thing. I understand that the Marco Island Civic Association is opposed to this. I don't know why they would be opposed to it, but that's what I've been told. So I would urge the City Council or folks in the audience that may be familiar with the Civic Association, perhaps they need to be brought up to speed as to what this tax can do. But Marco Island is generally a large voter turnout in Marco Island. I expect that this November it's going to be 90% turnout. everybody gets to vote on this and it would be a shame if Marco Island comes out in opposition to this and it fails just simply because the Civic Association perhaps doesn't have enough information I can think of no reason to vote against this and I've kind of thought this through I somebody can come up with the reason to vote against it I'd like to hear it but I I can't think of any reason to and hopefully the Civic Association will change their position

Well said. Well said. Counselor Gray, you wanted? Thank you. A couple clarifications. The TDC money goes to Tallahassee and someone in Tallahassee. Who then decisions that allocation? It's purely by statute.

We get it all.

We collect it first. Okay. It's not in the tele-industry.

Okay, and so to the other point, it would help to enlighten the community as to what kind of dollars come back and then the application of those proceeds. I'm not entirely clear what all qualifies as a potential application for the use of these proceeds. and having that menu. So I'll test one just as a concept. We have a very active tourist boardwalk, Winterberry Boardwalk. We're in the process of doing some renovations to it, maybe to the tune of about ballpark $150,000 in repairs at this point. Why wouldn't that be a very attractive and eligible application?

I can take this one. Councilor, that's actually in the works. Casey Lucius, Jay Tulsa from the TDC are talking about that. I'll say it looks good, not definite, but that's on our agenda. We're going to speak about that in the council meeting.

Okay. I think to answer the other question, the TDC tax, any tax that hits our visitors and comes back to the community clearly has an attractive profile to it. I think one of the challenges that Marco Island has been wrestling with, which is why they asked for an increase in the sales tax, and that sales tax is higher in many counties in Florida, is because we do have increasing burdens to service that tourist community, whether it's law enforcement, infrastructure, et cetera. So we are challenged by an increasing need to service the tourist community at little or no offset. And so we as a municipality are looking at how can we try and bring some parity to that thought process. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, may I? Please. To pick up where Mr. McDaniels left it, would it be okay to invite Mr. Johnston, would it be? What is the chain of command? Is there any way that we can invite him to explain?

It's already almost done. He's already volunteered for him.

Especially the statutory explanation of what are the funds we can use for perhaps infrastructure When you asked that, when that was spoken about, did you see the two managers already writing notes the second it was?

Before Chris speaks, one of the things I'll chime in just to piggyback on yours. So you gave that example about the Winterberry boardwalk. So here's an example sometimes of how things come to us. And I'm not picking on that one particular one, but you So just assuming it has a tourist connection, it has to be spelled out what it is. And metrics, statistics, and maybe sometimes things are a little bit frayed, but the more meat on the bone that can be put on there, how many tourists do traverse a particular area? How many people use a particular thing? Because a lot of times when people live in this area, especially Marco is a good example, they think, Everything is tourism, and it might be, but in the package, it really has to explain. We need these dollars, and here's how it affects tourism. That's probably the biggest missing piece that I see in packages that come to me as drafts or that get voted on is that connection isn't there. made and then you know it's not the board's uh job to say well you know there's a bunch of things probably missing from this because you're sitting there with more requests than sometimes money so that's where that that connection can be made and before that package comes talking to somebody like me chris county manager to make sure that um and also too sometimes people take a leap and they they make that connection for tourism But it's a stretch. And then it makes that package look very weak. And so, you know, we don't want to have that. But those are all, you gave an example of something that definitely could be considered for sure.

Please. Thank you, Commission Counsel. For the record, Christopher Johnson. I'm the Director of Corporate Financial and Management Services for the county. Can I get these slides up by chance? I actually put together, and it looks like you guys have the packet in front of you, but I can quickly run through the uses of TDT. Oh, perfect. I'm just looking at myself, so we got them back there. So let me just get started here. What I can go through here is I'll go through the TDT uses by each individual penny. As the commissioners and the county manager have stated, we currently have five pennies that we charge for TDT, we're looking to enact the six penny for the high tourism counties in, that'll be on the November ballot. So all the authorized uses of tourism development tax revenue are outlined in Florida State Statute 125.0104. And I'll start with the first, second, and the third pennies. So the first, second, and third pennies all have the same uses, and they're outlined here on this slide. They can be used for paying debt service and operating certain facilities, including convention centers, sports stadiums, arenas, coliseums, or auditoriums, aquariums, and museums. They can promote zoological parks. They can promote and advertise tourism and convention bureaus. They can finance beach park facilities. They can be used for beach maintenance, re-nourishment, restoration, erosion control, and shoreline protection. And finally, this is a new use that's been added recently, they can be used for public facilities or infrastructure. Now that's pennies one through three. The four cent has a little more of a restricted use. The four cent can be used for professional sports facility debt, operating costs of convention centers financed with tourism tax, and to promote and advertise tourism. The fifth cent can be used for professional sports facility and convention center debt and also to promote and advertise tourism. All right, and this is the penny right here, the sixth penny that will be on the ballot for the upcoming election in November. And the uses of this sixth penny are the same as the first through third penny. So you have your paying debt service and operating certain facilities, promoting zoological parks, promoting and advertising tourism, financing beach park facilities, beach maintenance, re-nourishment, restoration, erosion control and public facilities. This slide just shows what you what we had to achieve to qualify for the high impact six cent TDT sales exceeding 600 million or 18% of total taxable sales over 200 million our our TDT sales in the county are currently right around a billion dollars So we collect right around 50 million dollars in in TDT tax And then this was what has already happened here. There was an ordinance approved for the referendum by our Board of County Commissioners and Moving into, this is just a brief history of the TDT pennies. You can see here in August 1992, the county levied the first and second penny. In October of 1995, we levied the third penny. In July of 2005, the fourth penny was levied. In July of 2017, the fifth penny. And as I stated earlier, the referendum in November 2026 is for the sixth penny or the high tourism penny. Moving on to the allocation. So the allocation is outlined in our TDT plan. This plan was approved by the board, updated in 2017. If the new penny is to be approved by the voters, this TDT plan would have to be revisited, as the commissioners were stating earlier. So here's the beach category here, and if you kind of go across this, you can see I have a column for the first 3%, the fourth penny, the fifth penny, and then the overall allocation. I won't go through these one by one, but if you go to the bottom there, you see 70.929% of the first three pennies are allocated to beaches, overall 42.56% of the total current allocation. The next category is promotion. This category, you have all five pennies involved in this category. There's two separate sections here. You have destination promotion and admin, and then the amateur sports complex is also under the promotion category. And you can see here, penny one through three, 13.086%. Fourth penny is 100% allocated, and the fifth penny is currently 100% allocated to the promotional category. Our final category is museums. We have county museums at 12.809% of pennies one through three, or 7.68% of the overall. And then non-county museums, which are our grants that go out to our non-county partners. So you have there about three, actually 3.176, that's not an about, that's pretty exact, or 1.91% of the overall allocation. And this here is the exhibit A from our TDC ordinance, which shows those allocations I just ran through.

Any questions on that?

Could you please explain the capped at 2 million access to promotion fund 1101?

Certainly. And that's a really good question. So when the board adopted this TDC allocation plan for the pennies, they capped the county museum contribution at $2 million. So once we collect the percent, that 12.89% of the first three pennies, that gets us to $2 million. The rest of the money goes up into the promotion fund.

bucket instead thanks sir you're very welcome guys uh i've been asked by uh some of the folks watching us having a hard time hearing make sure your mics are on make sure you're close to them so they can hear you don't be afraid to be loud counselor gray um 60 million is the ballpark number that comes out of this if you add the additional penny okay um

What type of growth in tourism do you try and target with that deployment of capital? I mean, how much more tourism are we hoping to bring, and how do you try and measure your returns on the investment of that money?

I am the money guy. I can maybe pull up the marketing person, if you'd like, to answer that question.

I'll ask you a different question since you're the money guy.

I like to count it.

We have a couple of parks on Marco Island that could use some refurbishment, ball fields, et cetera. Would one of those ball fields or the Mackle Park where tourists do come visit and find it a prized destination be qualified for consideration?

It sounds to me like that would be under the process that the county manager was describing earlier, where you'd have to do a study to determine that it does benefit tourism prior to allocating TDT. And that would go through our grant process. Sorry, I'm using the wrong button here. So essentially there would be an application. We have to verify eligibility through that study and then go to the TDT and then finally for BCC approval. But you'd have to do the study first to determine the nexus of tourism.

And essentially that study is to try and track the activity level from the tourist community into those resources. Correct. Thank you.

You're very welcome.

Mr. Henry?

Actually, thank you very much for all that, but it's actually more of a statement going back to the sports complex and such. We have our nice little bubble here on Marco. I've been to, I think now, five different athletic events with people coming from out of town. FC Naples? We're going, what, in two weeks. But even just with all the kids coming from all around the country playing lacrosse or soccer, I've been to numerous things there. And I think on the Marco bubble, we don't realize the intensity of tourism outside our island. You could have 4,000 families there playing lacrosse from all over the country. And I don't think maybe the folks on Marco recognize the intensity of more than just people coming to go to the beach, but the people coming to get hotel rooms to go to athletic events because you can play lacrosse in January, February and March and it's absolutely lovely. So I think that's something for the folks of Marco to recognize that it's not what the money that's being spent isn't per se how to bring more people, more tourism to Marco. Because of the tourism through Collier County we can benefit from that money, if that makes sense to the audience.

If I could follow up. I get the privilege of sitting on the TDC, and I actually sit with many of the commissioners, but I have one on Naples City Council member, Coach Bill Kramer. You guys know him as a high school award-winning state champion coach. I know him as a man of faith. and a man of the children and a Naples City Council member, of course. He talks about the sports complex in great detail as to the benefit that it brings to the community, to the local kids, the people visiting. It's the number one now sports complex, I believe, in the country, if I remember the stats correctly. This was an incredible example of government, that's you, Commissioner, stepping in and doing something that the private sector could not have done alone, and it brings tremendous amount of people, the right type of people, families, people that benefit the community. So that's a perfect example of life outside of Marco, and I'm glad you mentioned it. Thank you. Counselor Champagne, you had something to add?

Thank you. You mentioned that some of the money can be used for debt repayment, which is that correct?

Correct. Debt repayment related to a qualifying item. So currently we utilize it for the debt repayment of the sports complex.

Okay. Could it be used for any debt repayment on Marco Island?

I would have to look into that and consult the attorneys.

The immediate answer is no. Why? It seems to me that it should be applicable so long as we can put together a mini business plan justifying why that debt repayment fits the requirements of TDT.

I would have to look into that. I apologize. I'm not prepared for that question, but we can get an answer to that.

We would appreciate a response to that because we do have some debt.

Some final thoughts. Commissioner Saunders, please.

On the sports complex, when we approved that back in 2017, there were two purposes for this. One was to promote tourism, and it does that. You just mentioned that. And, of course, this sixth penny will promote tourism in the summertime. But an even more important aspect of this, and really the reason that I supported this more than the tourism, was the fact that it provides these facilities for our community. So when we don't have visiting teams from all over the country using those fields, we have our kids using those fields. And we have a desperate need for more of those fields. And this is filling that need, especially baseball diamonds in the summertime. A lot of our diamonds are being refurbished in the summertime. And so we need these fields. So two points. One was for tourism, but also to provide fields for our community. And then in terms of the amount of tourism, I do believe that number 25% sticks in my head for some reason as to the tourist taxes generated on Marco Island. That means that the other 75% comes from someplace else. So it's a big pool, and that may give you some idea of the difference.

I had a closing thought, and then I can... Mr. Chair, if you have a closing thought. But for my city council members, I've been talking about TDC initiatives. What are we going to do? What are we going to ask for? What type of skin in the game are we going to include? So this would be a great, I think, launching point. Dr. Lucius and myself, we could talk about putting on an agenda. talk about what type of items we think would qualify how we set it up set it up for success with our County Commissioners that's one thought the other thing I want to just clarify the TDC now we take a lot of tourist tax money and we can connect it to a lot of things that also benefit the public I use the word, I think somebody was teasing me about using the word symbiotic. We're all in it together. It's a big circle. So there are a lot of things that will benefit the community, but you cannot forget one of the jobs of the TDC is to promote tourism. That's its purpose, to bring more tourists in, a thriving economy. So that's my thought. But to close out the county sales tax, here's what I'm hearing. I want to be clear. County commissioners appreciate. It's not that you're against the idea. It has to be a well-backed and supported idea set up for success. That'll be our job, councillors, to convince our community to make sure that we are reaching out to the county commissioners. And if we're in favor of this, asking the conversation to keep moving forward for a later date when we might consider or when the county commissioners will consider it. Mr. Chair, do you have anything to add before we move on to that? Okay, all right, with that, beach management plan. Next on the items, I'll just paraphrase this. Currently four major coastal management projects are underway. Collier Creek Dredging, permit expires December 2027, led by Collier County. US Army Corps Dredging, Naples to Marco Federal Navigation Channel, planned for the late 2027. sand re-nourishment of South Marco Beach led by Collier County. And number four, Tiger Tail Lagoon, Sand Dollar Restoration, we know it as a Sand Dollar Spit here in Marco, planned for late 2027, led by the city of Marco and Hideaway Beach Taxing District. Does anybody want to lead off for any thoughts on any of this? I'm assuming our county commissioner is going to give us a little bit of education on that, and we appreciate that. Commissioner Lacastro.

I would just offer that to set the table before we all sort of jump in with varied comments. We have Trinity Scott here who, much like Chris, can give an overview on these things because some of these things are related and some aren't. So I think before we start just jumping in, it would be very valuable if Trinity could come up and do just like what Chris did and give a quick overview, separate rumors from facts, and it might guide our discussion a little bit better.

Excellent idea. Thank you. Trinity, come on up.

At least it wasn't hold on to your wallet Inside joke here I Went the wrong way how about that? How about your transportation person going the wrong way? I I think so maybe Are you waiting for slides yes Yeah, I think I'm still going the wrong way No can the people who are running the slideshow find me the beach management plan please for the record I'm Trinity Scott I'm the transportation management services department head for Collier County and obviously I don't know my direction today so we don't believe that

While they're looking for that, I'll just say a real eye-opener with the questions the councilors are asking. Anybody who's newer to this, commissioner, councilor, public, running for office, you start to realize by listening to this how much you don't know what you don't know and how no particular elected official could know everything. And it's really the staff and the management that are behind us that run the conversations, help us learn and understand, bring us on board, educate us in the beginning, and do a tremendous amount of work. I appreciate that. So shout out to the staff while we're waiting for our slideshow.

Yeah.

I'm going to go ahead and start. So I'll just talk a little bit about the Collier Creek Rehabilitation Project. This is a dredge to improve the navigation and extend the time in between the required maintenance dredging. We just received the Army Corps of Engineers approval in August of this year. And don't let this baby face fool you. we have been working to get this permit for years so getting this permit was quite the feat and we anticipate starting that project next year and it will be a lengthy one it will extend over into 2028 as well so there you go Perfect. So there you go. This is our first slide here. And this is funded partly with the tourist development tax funds as well as our Florida partnership with our Florida Department of Environmental Protection. I did not touch anything for the record. So if someone can get me back to those slides. Yeah, I made them up. There you go. Commissioner Hall and I were obviously on the same page there. There you go. Okay. And then the South Marco Beach Renourishment. Am I free to touch the clicker? Please. Okay. Set it down. This is the design, permitting, and construction of the South Marco Island Beach to re-nourish and widen the beach for storm protection. We received our permits March of this year. We anticipate starting construction on that in January. That will go January 2027 through March of 2027. Once again, also funded partly with our tourist development in partnership with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection funds. and along with that project we will also be doing some FEMA mitigation plantings along the dunes we just did this along our Naples and the Collier County beaches in the northern part of the county where we re-established the dunes and replanted the dunes for better long-term resilience against future storm events so as part of the project we will also be doing that as well so we will start that in March and that will finish up in June of 2027 and that is being funded with FEMA funds And that concludes the three projects that we have.

to what Ms. Scott said even though some of those projects are coming up and in the future I'm really proud of the staff and I'm sure people on Marco are as well especially people that live in Cape Marco but after Ian that little tip sort of at the end of South Beach was really destroyed. I mean a lot of the sand basically was in the lobby of a few of those condominiums and I was out there personally with a lot of people from Trinity staff, Andrew Miller who oversees our beach restoration and quite a few others and it's been a multi-phase project so that may not have been on the slides but there's been an awful lot of sand and support that has come to the Marco beaches. I'll end it by saying sometimes the misconception on Marco from people that may agree or disagree or they have a better idea on how to replace sand and maybe we're not doing it in a way they think is smart because sand just washes away so maybe you should put sea walls. I've heard all of Tigertail should be surrounded by rocks so it doesn't have to be addressed every year. But as I sort of often say, turtles have a hard time climbing the rocks. So we don't just do this in a vacuum. We work with a lot of different organizations. But the main takeaway is when there's folks that see that we do beach restoration on Marco, which is a very susceptible, obviously it's different. All beaches are quite a bit different. This one takes a major hit in storms. And folks say, oh, my God, they were just out there six months ago or a year ago, and there they are again having to replace all the sand. The reality is if you crossed the Jolly Bridge and went to any of the other beaches, we're doing that 12 months out of the year on every beach. I mean, no beach gets a truckload of sand, and then it's sustained for 10 years. So Trinity has a really big team that's out there 24-7. Commissioner Hall's got a lot of beach area in his district. And make no mistake, they're getting plenty of support. And even when we don't have a hurricane, even if it's just a king tide and a little bit of wind, we're out there. So beach restoration is a regular thing that is regularly budgeted. It's not a one-time thing. And if it doesn't last for a year, none of them last for a year, especially if we have these big major storms. There's an awful lot that goes on on the other side of the Jolly Bridge that is very similar to Marco and sometimes that gets forgotten as well, that beach restoration is part of our regular maintenance of keeping all beaches. We have a little bit of an extra challenge here on Marco depending on how a storm hits or how tides flow and we have some areas that maybe don't have as much protection from wind and hurricanes and whatnot so it might be a little bit more robust restoration is needed here but make no mistake our restoration teams are on every single beach all throughout the year.

Absolutely. We do annual surveys of all of our Collier County beaches and pre-storm event. A lot of folks don't know this, but we go out and we actually try to get a survey pre-storm event and post-storm. So we know how much sand we've lost pre and post. So we can get on it and try to get those grant dollars back to our area. We like other people's money. OPM.

Is that all you wanted to add?

Or did Commissioner Lacastro cover your...

I was talking to Commissioner Lacoste since he is our representative. One of my personal concern is the Tiger Tail Beach.

Move it over closer to you.

There you go. One of my concerns is and I think many of our residents concern is when are we going to have our Tiger Tail Parking restored, parking area. I think that's another item.

Yeah, there is a full parking lot that's been open from sunup to sundown all the time so I don't know what your question is.

We're talking about when it's going to be the bathrooms restored, perhaps the vendor.

So the clarification is it's not the parking lot?

No, no, no, parking lot is there, obviously.

So you got here first the parking lot, what improvements are planned for the parking lot? None because the parking lot is in great shape. If you think it isn't or there's something that we're missing, let us know. As for the bathrooms, and I can ask James Ammerhan to step forward from our parks and rec because we talk about this regularly. I'll give the short answer but I don't want to miss any details or Jamie French might want to chime in here from growth management. The main restrooms, and I've put this in every newsletter as clear as I can, the main restrooms by the snack bar took a major hit during Ian and even previous storms. And not just the restrooms, but what makes restrooms work are lift stations. So when you flush the toilet, it actually goes somewhere. And much like stoplights on a street, It's not the bar and the light that cost money, it's all the computers that are underneath the ground that makes a brand-new stoplight when it's installed at an intersection, a multi-million dollar investment. So underground, those older lift stations took a big major hit. But having said that, when I've gotten notes saying there's no bathrooms on Tigertail, when are you going to restore the bathrooms? Several years ago, brand-new bathrooms were built at the south end of the parking lot. So if you have to go to the bathroom, you can do it in almost a brand-new facility that's out the south end. It might take a little bit longer of a walk. And one of the things I had asked Mr. French a while ago, and we've done it, is put a little bit better signage so people who only know the bathrooms by the snack bar go, they're closed, there's no bathrooms. And it's like, Wow, you could throw a stone and hit it and it's a multimillion dollar facility that was built just a handful of years ago because lift stations and all the things that are required for a brand new bathroom needed to be built so it was a pretty big undertaking, not only that but we put a VIP trailer in Tiger Tail immediately when the bathrooms were destroyed and of course we've had challenges with that even though we clean them three times a day we have some folks that maybe don't take care of them as best as possible and we've been trying to counter that and I'll let Mr. French chime in. And then you have third on here, the vendor. Well, we have five different marine stores that all lost vendors for one reason or another. Mr. French will have some good news here that, first of all, the snack bar at Tiger Tail is a heavy lift for any vendor, even though I know that a lot of emails I get are people who want to go out to Tiger Tail and they want the snack bar available. We have had several contractors out there since Tony Smith who was there for many years and they left in short order because they said I can't sell two chicken sandwiches a week and three sodas and make money. We even encouraged food trucks to go out there and this is during season and they stayed a very short amount of time. What we find is a lot of people come to Tigertail and they might want those food resources. But a lot of Tiger Tail visitors, and Linda would know this, a lot of them come self-contained. They're more sort of environmentally focused. So they have a cooler. They have food. It doesn't mean we're not going to get somebody out at the snack bar, but we can't make a contractor take that contract. And when it's probably not the most lucrative, and we've offered contractors to bundle it and to – hey, if you take the more lucrative marine stores and other locations that also don't have vendors, so it's not just Tiger Tail, you know, we'd like to bundle Tiger Tail in there, but we've also offered all the snack bars separately as well, trying to get, you know, anybody in there. I won't steal Mr. French's thunder, but we think we finally have somebody that may be interested in Tiger Tail as well as maybe even all of the snack bars that And then he can tell you the timelines of those. But we have put a lot of effort into Tigertail. I know that some citizens maybe don't think so. But if you walk around a little bit there, you'll see that millions of dollars have been invested. And that park takes a big hit when there's storms. And also, too, we can spend money on everything, but we can't spend on anything. But we can't spend money on everything. And so the estimate, I think, for the Tigertail snack bar restroom, if we wanted to bring that one up, correct me if I'm wrong, you're talking about $5 to $7 million. So when we have other priorities that are a lot higher, it doesn't mean we're ignoring that bathroom, but when bathrooms already exist on Tigertail, it isn't, especially in the off season, one of the more visited locations. spending $5 or $7 million as a top priority to restore another bathroom on Tigertail, you know, oftentimes isn't on our top two list. But Mr. French is here to fill in the gaps. Thank you, Commissioner.

Good afternoon. My name is Jamie French. I'm the department head for growth management and community development. Thank you for having me. I appreciate being back and seeing all your smiling faces. So I wish I could give you better news. But I do serve Carrier County as the chief resiliency officer and the floodplain administrator for Carrier County. This bathroom sustained more damage beyond the 50% rule, which is set forth under 49 and 553 of the Florida statute which adopts the community rating system right from federal code. So it's beyond 50% damage as a result of the storm so therefore it must meet the new requirements of the Florida building code which includes elevation We're going to have to look at ADA accessibility to include either a chairlift, like you would see at our community center at CACS AMBUS, or perhaps even a ramp. And those ramps typically run 1 to 12 rise over runs, so it accumulates a great deal of space in order to meet those ADA requirements. The opinion of probable cost, we have not received an official opinion of probable cost, but likely that will be north of that number, Commissioner Lacastro was speaking of, probably to the upward sum of somewhere around $12 million to $15 million to restore that facility. So we are currently using a third-party vendor to provide that service, and that is very costly to the county. It's unbudgeted operating, clearly, that we've had to absorb, on top of which it is within a coastal environment, so it's exposed to salt element as well as an awful lot of sand that people like to use or that they bring in off their feet. I would tell you that that park generates, last year we saw almost approximately $370,000 in parking fees. So we are tracking the parking. And if you've noticed, we got rid of the payment portals, the payment stalls, and we went to the QR code. And it has made that much more convenient. And in those parks, such as in Tigertail, where we struggle with cell phone service, we've actually looked at working with the cell phone providers as well as putting repeaters in ourself so that we can ensure adequate tracking of the parking as well as collection of payment. Now, beach parking, of course, if you have a beach parking pass and you're a resident of Cargill County, to include the City of Naples, City of Marco, that's free parking. And so we know a lot of families enjoy it. I just happened to be on the site probably about 10 days ago, so I do get out about parks has been under my purview. for just about two years now. So hopefully you're seeing a great deal of difference in the cleansiness, the customer service, and just the appreciation we have of enjoying and also protecting this amenity along with Mr. Hanahan, our parks director. But ma'am, that's going to be a costly effort. in which case we can look at how we would work with Mr. Johnson to see what type of FEMA funds may be available. But the good news is that we are in final negotiations with a current vendor that's providing services to the state of Florida that should be upcoming to the Board of County Commissioners for consideration for the concession stand to reopen. Right now we've got about a $728,000 project tied up between the lift station and the concession area to clean it up. Playgrounds are still in really good shape and the boardwalks are fantastic as well. So we are out there, as Commissioner Lacastro said, those bathrooms get cleaned three times usually per day. And we augment on top of our contract, because the contractor is out there three times a week. We have staff that actually goes through there, looks at your South Beach, as well as your Caxambas Community Center bathrooms, and we make sure those are open. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. Commissioner, any questions? Counselor Schwan, please.

Hello, Mr. French. Nice to see you again. So my question is about the vendor at Caxambas. Can you update us on that?

I wish I could. We are in what staff refers to as the cone of silence and final negotiation. I would tell you is that this is I learned this working a little bit in the IT field. This is not a child and a dog type of a business where somebody just thought of a great idea. This is a legitimate vendor that's currently providing services to the state parks of the state of Florida.

Well, we certainly look forward to getting that vendor back there, too. Our residents really are supportive of that.

Thank you. As do we. Thank you.

I do have a question. Speaking of Casambas, while we're waiting for this negotiation to finish up, there's a group of gentlemen on the island that would love to volunteer to get that thing open before season starts. Is that something you could entertain?

We believe we'll be open before season. But if not, I would tell you is that if you work directly either with my office or Mr. Hanrahan, I'll make sure I give you my card, we'll be happy to help you. Great. Thank you.

I see no other hands or comments. I'm going to just jump down to the bottom of this. This one's important to Marco. Additionally, the Big Marco Pass has recently experienced shoaling and necessitating the relocation of channel markers to ensure safe navigation. The city proposes that monitoring and managing of the Big Marco Pass be incorporated into the Collier County project list. This is something that's important for us. It's a little controversial amongst the community when we start talking about cruise ships and why we want to do this. This is safety, this is ATONs, markers, buoys, and this is pretty routine with all of Collier County that this work is done. Maybe for the commissioners and for the staff, would there be any pushback or hesitation to incorporating this into the project list or any thoughts?

Yes. We can't.

So currently this area doesn't fall within the county's jurisdiction for inlet management. It falls under the Army Corps of Engineers and the U.S. Coast Guard for the channel markers. We wouldn't recommend volunteering to take the initiative on utilizing local funds. However, working together with our legislative delegations and lobbyists to ensure that the needs and the importance of this channel are conveyed to them and for them to be able to make it a top priority is prudent. Our teams, both the city and the county, I believe, are planning on meeting with FDEP in September to see if they're able to assist us. So we're trying to bring the state in, knowing that the feds are sometimes, you know, it's harder to get higher on their priority list. So we're trying to bring the state in to maybe we can get them and get higher up on their priority list. an effort to be able to manage the sand throughout not only the Big Marco Pass but also the Collier Creek and the Capri areas so that is kind of how we're we're trying to tackle that from a staff perspective but certainly I think keeping that on our our priority list and maybe having those a legislative priority allows us to have you all take those initiatives back to our legislative delegation and try to push those further

Appreciate the clarification. We're willing to help in any way that we can. Staff, anybody have anything to add to this? No?

Councilor Gray, please. Thank you. You mentioned the Army Corps of Engineers, Coast Guard, and the county. Has the Army Corps of Engineers done a complete assessment of Collier County from a vulnerability standpoint and what is viable to protect and what isn't in a changing environmental footprint? Because I love to believe that part of this discussion was related to it really hadn't been clearly assessed and then the other related question would be When you look at something like dredging this pass Do we have data that says what the return on investment or how much the demand is for something like this? And how do you rate allocating money for this versus your other choices?

Well, we would not rate Anything towards this because it's currently not our responsibility to dredge this and and that's my point to that is we this is not currently our Responsibility to do that. This would be the Army Corps of Engineers responsibility to do that and so my recommendation is is that we get this on our legislative priority of this and we push them to bring this up to the top if this is a priority for us and we get them to utilize their funding to do so. And we have done this in other areas. And Gordon Pass is an area where we have done this, where we've had this in Commissioner Kowal's district, where it is the Army Corps of Engineers' responsibility to dredge that area. And we have put this on our legislative priority list. And our Collier County commissioners, as well as our lobbyists, have pushed to get that higher up on the Army Corps of Engineers' priority list. And if I'm not mistaken... Getting ready to dredge.

To get that dredged.

So it's not unheard of that we've done that in the past. So instead of us putting our very limited, we've had a lot of discussions about we all have very limited tax dollars. So instead of taking an additional burden on ourselves, let's go back and try to get those that are responsible for doing it, try to get them to allocate those dollars.

Are we needing to coax the Army Corps of Engineers to take a hard look at this?

I think that's what we're hearing is that yes.

Yes, sir. Just for example, we go myself and my four colleagues every year make a trip to Washington, D.C. and we meet with all these different entities and we bring these things to them and say hey, this is a priority for us. This is a priority for the community. You know, it's just, you know, our lobbyists and all that work just as hard as the other, you know, 67 counties and the 50 states, and you add them all up. They're all up there with their hand out trying to get these organizations motivated to make them think that we're the most important project. But the Army Corps historically has heard us. They have done things. Like I said, the Project Gordon, you know, they're going to do that. And I don't know if you heard the good news the other day, but

Are they going to put the sand where we want them to?

We're talking about giving me the sand to go north, so that would be great, because that would use the sand to our benefit. But the other thing, we've had two attempts for the Corps to do the resilience study, and twice it's unbudgeted and ran out of money because Washington, D.C. just, for whatever reason, didn't include it moving forward. So, you know, that's how those stopped. But I think case by case, when we bring these to them, and when we do our 401 permitting, all these layers of process we do with these beach renourishment, berm projects, we look at it in smaller pieces, but we're still getting feedback on if we're doing something right or wrong. And usually they partner up with us. So instead of having one big umbrella study saying this is what Collier County needs to do, you can piecemeal it and still get the same result by bringing these projects and these ideas to them. you know, piece by piece. Sometimes it's even a better way because they don't feel like they're getting, you know, held to the fire to have to say one big report or whatever. And then we actually get the result of what we want. All our beaches are all looked at. All our berms are looked at. And we get a plan. But it's done piecemeal. So I think in a way that's probably the better way to do it anyway.

As Commissioner Hall is waiting patiently, Chris, please.

Uh, just as an idea, you know, you've got congressional candidate Casey askar is probably looking forward to a favorable outcome in November. Before he gets there, you might want to drop this in his ear and get a commitment from him. And that because he's gonna be looking for support in Marco as well. But he's he can be very instrumental in Washington, just as Mario Diaz Ballart was for funding for us. and Congressman Donald's being very active in our veterans nursing home situation. So they got some punch up there and it would it wouldn't be a bad idea to establish a relationship and put that in his ear before the election. Appreciate it.

I just wanted to add Ms. Scott brought up our legislative priorities. Commissioner Cole was saying we go to D.C. once a year and go up to Tallahassee once a year all five of us and that's critically important. One homework assignment here that I can tell you would help is if your legislative priorities matched ours in certain areas. If we say, and I don't want to jump ahead, but I'll use a real world example, Isles of Capri septic to sewer. So we had it as one of our legislative priorities that it was a huge show stopper due to environmental concerns and we put all the meat on the bone to make sure we could get about $200,000 for an initial study before you can start converting from septic to sewer, there's a whole bunch of preliminary steps. So we had it front and center with all of the meat and potatoes and talked about how this was a joint venture between us and Marco. And I'm not here to throw any stones. We're here to do things better. if the Marco legislative priority list would have even mentioned it and it might have and then it maybe fell off but I can tell you between Casey and Amy working much closer together I think those things are going to be a thing of the past. We actually did get the money I think because we had it on ours and maybe it didn't I don't want to say it didn't matter if it was on Marco's but if we wouldn't have got the money I might have been sitting here saying man, if Marco would have put that as one of their top things, it would have been side by side. And when someone like Ivette Benaroche is up in Tallahassee, and she's trying to function on our behalf, or whoever the congressional people are in DC talking to the Army Corps, they look at those things. And there's got to be synergy, or it looks like a big disconnect. So we did get lucky. I won't jump too far ahead, but on Isles of Capri, when it comes to the septic to sewer, we finally got to step one and we got some money to start the study. But those legislative priorities matching in the areas where we've got some cooperation and synergy really need to match in a way that gives us the best chance. And then our elected officials up in Tallahassee and even in Washington, D.C., copies of our legislative priorities go everywhere. So sometimes we're talking to the Army Corps in Washington, D.C., and they've got a copy right in front of them. And if what we are saying doesn't perfectly match the script, it looks like right and left hand don't know what they're doing kind of thing. So that's a little piece of improvement that we're all aware of in here. But just to go on the record, we need to continue to do that as best as possible to really take advantage of those funds. And lastly, I'll just say Trinity works really hard on the aids to navigation that help boaters across all of our waterways. A lot of them got destroyed, damaged, they're faded, they disappeared during storms. And people say, you need to fix all those things, much like this pass. Some belong to the Coast Guard. Some belong to us. Some belong to you. Some belong to the city of Naples. And we actually got our hands smacked. And I don't know if it was by mistake or we were just trying to help. But correct me if I'm wrong, I believe we replaced one that belonged to the Coast Guard and it wasn't ours. And we heard from them very quickly. saying, you know, that's ours, that's our responsibility. You can't go out there and just sort of do your own thing. So there's definitely a division of responsibility. So this one is particularly the Coast Guards. But make no mistake, to your point, we can still squeeze them pretty hard. But in conclusion, I'll say, remember when the, over the last couple of years, the Army Corps was here doing an assessment on the vulnerability of Collier County? Yeah. I was really outspoken saying when some people were saying, oh, they've been working on it for two years, you know what? And then we saw some of the cartoon drawings of the Game of Thrones walls that need to be built all the way across Collier County. I worked with the Army Corps a lot in my time in the military. They always think out of the box, and their report is always super thick, and 80 percent of the stuff in there is just crazy ideas they have. But, you know, you've got to weed through that and figure out the things. You know, if they say that a 50-foot wall needs to be built on the beaches of Naples to protect every home, the main takeaway is, well, we're not going to do that because it would cost a trillion dollars. But what the Army Corps is telling us is that is a very vulnerable area. So my takeaway is those people need to be evacuated immediately. when we almost sent the signal to the Army Corps saying, you're moving too slow. You're not paddling in the right direction. You're giving us all these crazy ideas that don't match anything that we want to do. And then we want them to come back and help us with now something else. So being good team partners with the Army Corps. And we did right that ship. And in our trip to DC, that was one of the first places we stopped with the Army Corps saying, We appreciate everything you've done and we definitely need your services. So they're a very valuable organization but are stretched beyond unbelievable means. So like Commissioner Colwell was saying, when everybody is trying to grab at them for different things and we want to be high on the list, the way you get their attention is our legislative priorities all match And also we are very appreciative for anything they can do for us. And that's the way, you know, they sort of juggle their priority list and go, hey, you know, if we go down to Collier County, we can do some good and our good is going to go a long way. And so is their appreciation for, you know, our expertise. So, you know, I don't know how much you all interface with the Army Corps, but if you get that chance. You want to make some good contacts there and really partner with them closely.

If there was a short list of coaching tips from the county on how we could coordinate or play nice on the playground or help coordinate our activities, I believe we would welcome that memo or those suggestions. So thank you for that.

I'll take that as a homework assignment and get you some ideas that you guys can put in your hip pocket of things that we're doing so we're both doing the same thing. And we're pulling, you're pushing. That's how we get what we want.

Thank you. Appreciate that, guys. Before we turn it back over to the counselors and commissioners, Justin Martin, our head of Department of Public Works. Do you want to say something, Justin?

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Justin Martin. Thank you. Public Works Director of the City of Marco Island. About a year ago, September of 2025, we did have a virtual meeting between the city, Collier County Coastal Management, Corps of Engineers, the Coast Guard, and DEP, and we discussed this issue because The reason that the Corps doesn't maintain this pass, and by the way, this is the only pass within all of Collier County that is currently not being maintained. Even Caxamba's Pass is being maintained. You all know about Wiggins Pass, Doctors Pass, Gordon's Pass. So from Gordon Pass, there's an intercoastal waterway behind Caxamba. Key Waden that comes all the way down to where it meets up with Isles of Capri. That is where the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers federal waterway stops. So this is not in the Corps of Engineers' scope to maintain this pass. I welcome the opportunity of a joint effort, and the City of Marco Island will happily participate in that. And what DEP told us at that meeting a year ago in September is that they will be happy to be in the driver's seat to coordinate this issue, but it needs buy-in from the county, the city, and somebody to drive this in order to come up with an inlet management plan for this inlet, which is sorely needed, as was mentioned earlier here. The city even went to the extent of paying for a survey of the bath metric survey of this inlet because we know that the conditions change. Everybody knows that the sands shift in an inlet and so your deep water changes and we had lots of instances of vessels running aground because they were going in the marked waterway, but the sands had shifted. So we paid for a survey of the inlet, and then we were able to convince the Coast Guard, because it is the Coast Guard's jurisdiction for the markers, the ACE, the navigation, and its channel. However, it's not their jurisdiction to do any dredging. So we were able to convince the Coast Guard then to move those markers to the deep water at that time, but This has been like a neglected stepchild, and it needs to have that stewardship and be pushed through these multi-agencies to be able to come up with an Inlet Management Plan. And our consultants have looked at that. They are the ones that coordinated this meeting, this joint meeting with all the parties I mentioned here. That's what's needed here, and we can't just sit back and think that the Corps is going to take care of it because it's not even in their scope of work.

Commissioner Locascio, maybe respectful varying opinions.

I want to highlight something you said, moving away from this for one second. The reason we're literally sitting here is because of two great managers that put this together and got us together for these conversations. I don't expect an answer. I don't think it's proper in this, but does this make sense to anybody? Is this part of the synergy? Perfect. I just need the head nod and we're good to go. Guys, any other thoughts on this topic? I miss any hands or any All right, staff, anything to add? All right, thank you. All right, we can move on then. Great conversation. I think we touched upon a bit of this use of tourist development tax funds for the 125-0104 coming up on November 26, the TDT revenue. Did anybody have anything they want to add to that, any other questions? I know we covered a lot of it in the previous conversation, but any other thoughts? Councilors, commissioners, staff? All right. It's like a good council meeting or a county commissioner meeting where you can move right on. Caxambas Park and South Beach parking lot operations. This is one that comes up a lot, and Marco, and I'll start this off. I talked to Commissioner LoCastro when I was first elected, keeping campaign promises. Hey, Rick, you want to give us those two parts? And there was a great conversation of I'm not sure if I could share on it, so you may not fully want them until you know what you're taking on and what the responsibilities are. And that's how we started with them. We've bounced the ideas around a bit over time. Did you want to start with this one at all, or should we turn it over to Rick?

I will and this is one that Mr. French and I met on, as soon as I saw it on a topic list, this was another complicated one but in some cases not too complicated and I'll stand by what I said initially, be careful what you wish for because I live on Marco and there's some things that you've all brought up that you've got some debt, you've got some ball fields, you've got this, you've got that. If we could just hand you the keys to Caxambas, you may not want that. Number one, especially you wouldn't have wanted it prior to Hurricane Ian because if you had the keys, you would have had to do an unbelievable amount of heavy lifting as the county had to do, not only to get FEMA dollars and whatnot, but even to add some of our own money into the pot. So I don't know that that would have helped your debt significantly. the parking and even the marina store isn't a giant cash cow that's going to feed Marco Island all this incredible profit and when you've got a facility like that that takes major hits from storms and even just you know regular use citizens expect parking lots to be you know repaved and all those other things so you know the dollars and cents so it's not like any of us at the county are holding on to it for nefarious reasons. On the flip side, and that's where I asked Mr. French to come in here, there's some legalities when state money is used for certain things, when county tax dollars are used for certain things, you can't just sort of switch the keys afterwards. And so it doesn't mean it's something we couldn't explore. I certainly look at Caxamas as the most unique park in the county because when you look at all the other parks, we either own it where somebody else owns it. This one's sort of this handshake from 100 years ago, whoever sort of decided and it's definitely not managed in the most efficient way. There's a little bit of overlap. You guys get complaints about it at times. We get complaints at times and it's sort of a shared responsibility. Although on the flip side I would say now it probably is the nicest, best, newest park because of the work that was done by a huge amount of people to not only fight for FEMA dollars and whatnot, but to make sure it was fully funded. It wasn't repaired. It was totally rebuilt. And we still have a few more things to do. But, Jamie, if you can give us a short version as to the legalities and anything else you want to touch on, but how it's not as easy as just hey, would you give us the park and we'll take it from there. There are some long poles in the tent when it comes to that. Even if it was something we thought was a good idea, we may not have the full authority to just transfer ownership or share ownership in a different way. But I still think there, and Jamie will also end with that, that there is some uniqueness of what we can continue to explore so that it's a more efficient operation out there and maybe it still remains shared but in a different way.

Thank you again, Jamie French for the record. And I just wanted to tell you that we're so excited about Tiger Tail that I did get notice that we are actually scheduled to go in front of the Board of County Commissioners probably the first or second meeting to finalize a contract with a vendor So it has been through legal review through Mr. Klotzkow's office. So we just got that done right now. So you're welcome. I'm kidding. So I'd like to start off with South Beach, if that's okay. The South Beach parking lot, I believe that's right on Swallow, that hours of operations are from sunrise to sunset. We do maintain parks and recreation. We do maintain the boardwalk beach access. and that is open 24 hours. Now, as a caveat, the hours of operations for any park are at the determination of your parks and recreation director, which essentially means your county manager or designee. So it may be my office or it could very well be Ms. Patterson's office or of course the Board of County Commissioners. So there are times that we do adjust park hours based on activity, repairs, or perhaps if we've seen a high amount of vandalism or unique opportunities to close those during season. The parking consists of 64 parking spaces. This is all hardscape, so it is not your permanent parking with shell. These are paved parking lots with four handicapped spaces. It does have a single stall restroom facility for both men and women. We see north of 100,000 visitors to this location annually for that beach access. Again, free beach parking passes can be utilized here, and then the parking is $10. And that's for the full day. Operating expenses on this location are just north of $17,000 a year. And we do patrol those through our code enforcement and, I'm sorry, our park rangers, which is we took a consolidated effort in the last two years to bring all of our enforcement under code. Our parking revenues that we see in FY25 are just shy of $360,000. And in FY26, we were just a little lower. The South Marco improvements, we are doing a redesign. We're doing some improvements on the front gates, what we were having in the evenings. There were some activities going on on the beach. and we have cameras all over the place so unfortunately some folks got some tickets or maybe even got trespassed and we will enforce that to the full extent to the letter of the law. We want to be able to provide this service but there are guidelines, we keep the rails up and our board has encouraged us and held us accountable to make sure these parks are safe and operating as they're designed to do. So those gates will be redone. They are currently in design. We're working with Dan Smith of your group. We work very well with Dan and so we'll take that through the permitting process and that's about a $31,000 venture and we're going to upgrade those fences or at least those gate entrances and they will be on a timer. to coordinate with those hours. So no one will get trapped if you're already in there and you're past the closing time. You may have a park ranger that would come by and just say the park's closed, time to leave, or if the vehicle is kept there overnight. The board has enhanced our parking violations. They hadn't been visited in nearly 30 years. And so it's a $75 ticket now versus the old $30. It goes to 150 on the second violation, and the third, it even escalates more, and your vehicle could be towed, and you would have to pay that impound fee as well as the towing cost. And so we have done that at both our boat ramps and at our parks. And this isn't about quota. It's just simply about maintaining the hours and ensuring that people are following the rules so that the park is available to everybody. This is the park location. As you can see, this is the area that's in the yellow hash. This is what's maintained by your parks to include if you notice on the sides. There's some garbage facilities and we empty those on a daily basis. Parks and Recreation takes care of that as well. And this is the way the park looks. And these are recent pictures in the last two days. We're jealous because you all got rain and we just got it today. Caxambas Park. And I can't really speak on the legalities. I've not yet worked with Mr. Klaskill's office. But Caxambas Park is a very unique park. It was part of the Deltona settlement where the land was given as a settlement between the state and the fed to Collier County. But part of the Part of the title work on this is that it's got a reverter clause that it can only be used for beach and boat access. It cannot be used for anything else. And anything that you plan to change, you have to take back through the Department of Interior for those changes. Also, the county participated in 1983 with a $23,000 grant. Well, the grant seems small, but the obligation was very large. And so it holds it in perpetuity that it can only be used for what it's being used for today in ownership of the county. Now, it's not to say that that ownership may not be able to be transferred, but the county has worked with both the federal and the state government on this, on any improvements that we've done, and it is subject to a five-year inspection by the Department of Interior. So we do have a ship store. The ship store is open seven days a week, 365 days a year. We run those hours from 7 a.m. until 5 p.m. The marina and boat ramp is open seven days a week, 365. Same thing, 7 a.m. to dusk, there is a gate. There are some burrowing owls on the site, and we do participate with the Florida Fish and Wildlife to make sure that those areas are marked and protected. The amenities provided are 31 boat trailer parking spaces, 16 vehicle parking spaces, boat ramp. It's a one to two lane launch area. And then we see north of 25,000 visitors annually. The facilities, we have 1,098 square foot ship store and office for retail sales. There are public restrooms. There is a community center building as well as a few offices that we lease out to the Coast Guard auxiliary. That project was completed in 2022, and it was right around $2 million for that community center, which was paid for by your regional parks impact fees. So that was an expansion that is a community center that is available. And again, I was just there. I had my lunch in my cooler, and I ate lunch in the community center. And we've worked very closely. I've recently met with the Coast Guard Auxiliary, the new administration that's in there, and they're wonderful. They're a great partner. And we're looking to actually offer some classes that they're interested in expanding, perhaps the Sugden on water safety, especially in those open water environments. So we're encouraged about that. Parking and launch revenue is FY25. We saw $52,000 in just last year. We were just shy of $100,000 at $94,000. Fuel service did reopen part of the Hurricane Ian cleanup. We completely replaced all the fueling facilities. We updated the site. Everything was permitted through Marco Island as well as the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the DEP. But we were open. And your staff, by the way, was great. They worked very close with us. So thank you for that. fuel revenue, we're starting to see that fuel as well as the pump out services, we're north of $340,000 a year in fuel revenue. We know that that is a convenience. Although you may pass 17 gas stations on the way here, if you're trailering a vessel, I know it is a major convenience for your residents because often our best clients are the ones that have vessels right behind their homes. The improvements included seawall and dock repairs which was $3.2 million, concession building repairs, new above ground fuel system as you see there. This is the footprint of the park location. The only thing I did not include is that there is another docking facility that will be that's currently through the permitting process for County Sheriff's Office boat. I know Marco Island currently has a footprint there as well. This is the current facility. I will tell you that when I was down there I did notice because of the harsh environment although it's a newer building on your community center we did have some rust coming up through some of the conduit believe it or not under the paint so all of that has been pressure washed and repainted. In fact the painting was just finished today. Any questions for me? Councillor Henry.

One quick question, and I started to look into it and I failed to have the answer by today. How much does the Coast Guard auxiliary pay in rent?

They pay us, I think their overall for a 30 year was about $700.

Okay. So they have quite a deal.

Well, they do. But they cost share for the electric and the utilities. It's a very small amount. I would tell you that they get more use out of that building than anyone. So I would encourage Marco Island residents, you can schedule or any county resident, you can schedule rental of this community center and it's fabulously decorated with all sorts of Coast Guard memorabilia in there. It's very nice and they keep it very clean. We do have an office that's in there for park rangers. We've also extended that. to our Carter County Sheriff's Office, especially if they needed to escape the weather. We do that at Cokahatchee, and we would certainly extend that to Marco Island just to get out of the weather, just to have a place to plop down with your computer so that if you needed to run a report or if you were helping somebody, we certainly want to make that facility available to you as well for public safety. We think that it enhances our public safety. We've noticed that at Caxambas where we're having a lot fewer vandalism incidents by having the Sheriff's Office there. And so it really does, and you'll see from time to time we do have a park ranger that lives here on the island, and that's where he parks his vehicle. So you may notice a park ranger vehicle parked there often. It may be his days off or when he's not on shift. So we make that available for staff parking as well, and he's not in a boat ramp space, I promise. He'll be in a car space.

and one other question because actually dr lucius and i have been working on this for a couple of years trying to determine the parking numbers which you provided here which is wonderful we've been asking for them for quite a while and actually i spent a lot of time this past weekend reading collier county budgets great job everybody um but going through the line items and it's never broken down on any of the collier county parking lots what the revenue is um how were these numbers determined suddenly when we've been trying to get these break down for years

So part of the thing, when we went to the T2 system, it's very transactional, and we break it down actually by park. Believe it or not, all QR codes look very similar, but they are different. So it indicates where you're parking. Now, it's not to say that somebody that paid for parking at Tiger Tail couldn't go to CACS Canvas because it's for the full day of any Cuyahoga County Park but I would say that's a very low margin of error but we actually track it by facility to include Port of the Isles, Goodland, Coquihatchee.

Okay so prior to the QR codes that's where there was a lack of information.

There was and also through our marine management contractor our previous one often they would be able to receive the parking fee, and perhaps they didn't always give us good data.

Okay. So there's excellent data from 25 on.

Yes, ma'am. Gotcha. Yes, ma'am.

Thank you.

South Beach parking why would we raise that to $15 a day from 10 and once the last time we changed that price so that the fee was updated just around 2023 it was $5 and it was it was brought I think that and I can't speak for the board clearly or the manager's office at the time I certainly was that that group was not within my purview We are currently in a fee study with Raftelis to look at it. We recognize that in many of our facilities we run somewhere between a 20% to 30% deficit, and that's just even on a break-even model. And it's one of the things that the Board of County Commissioners has challenged us me to go back and look and we work with a company called Resource X and we look at beyond the efficiencies on what does it take and we actually look at also what are other communities paying and we also take into consideration everything from AMI, cost of living, everything like that to include cost of housing to see what that impact would be.

Thank you. Do you have a breakdown of the visitors that use Caxambas Park? Is it mostly residents? And are any private vendors permitted to operate out of there? What are the rules of who can get access to that park and utilize that park?

So one of the things, because I work in the regulatory environment for the last 20 years. I'm jealous. And so I would tell you is that the first thing that I did is I looked at our submerged land leases with the state of Florida. The submerged land leases actually tie your use beyond zoning. That is a recreational facility and it is something that I actually spoke with Mr. Smith about with your previous city manager many years ago as far as we may have a potential violation and we're also revisiting ours. Now it's not to say you couldn't go to the state of Florida and expand upon that. But when you go to a commercial marina to allow for inspected vessels or certain types of activity to go on, there are requirements under the FWC as well as the DEP that those captains, and they're very well aware of, based on their captain's license, based on their classification of captain's license, on what those need. Now, I'm very lucky because I was able to recruit in a gentleman by the name of, he's in the back of the room, Mr. Andy Marino, where Mr. Andy Marino is a retired federal law enforcement officer through the park service, and he actually did this for better than 20 years for Everglades National Park and the Dry Tortugas. So many of the captains that run into Tom, they probably ran into Tom before in a different aspect. And so Tom has been instrumental in helping us. He's got very good contacts with our state and federal partners on this.

So last question. It was a rather intimidating statement that Marco Island may not want to own this because of future repair risk, environmental risk impact, et cetera. Why would we want to own it? Do you know? If we're trying to make this decision one way or the other, being respectful of economics. So it's for residents. We've got it pretty well structured. It seemed to have been cleaned up. Thank you for the work you did there. And I'm inclined to leave the future liability with you. Why would I want to move that to Marco Island?

It's your idea.

We're not putting it for sale.

We're the ones asking this, so it's really on us. We don't want it. If I might jump in, this is a conversation. We started with we don't know what we don't know. What are the thoughts? our county commissioners are great stewards of this park by no means we're the local stewards could we be better as a local presence with police fire a presence right here we don't know the answer we're only asking for permission to ask if we might make a presentation ask a few questions at some point maybe make a formal presentation so I guess I'll ask the county commissioners if we at some point brought up a presentation would you be open to look at it or should we I don't want to move forward with staff time, both on managers, if it's just a dead issue. But if you say, yeah, we're open-minded, we might certainly do that at some point in time.

Well, I took, as a homework assignment, the key word on here is what's the possibility of a potential transfer? Not to do a deeper dive into this, but there are some legal issues that even if it was a great cash cow and you say, hey, we want it, we want it, we want it, It might not be as easy as just giving you the keys based on how much the county has invested in it and where we got the funds from. It may not be ours to give away. We don't have a for sale sign outside of Caxambas or the South Beach parking. It was an idea that you all were throwing out. I got it as a homework assignment. We can definitely provide, even before you come up with the idea, hey, we want it or don't, I think we should give you sort of, hey, here's the numbers that Mr. French just went over, but here's some long poles in the tent. And one of the things we talked about is it might not even be possible. So rather than have 10 three-hour meetings about it, that's really the first thing. Hey, if we did want to, you know, pass it to Marco and for whatever reason, could that happen? If it couldn't, all the other stuff really doesn't matter. And we think there are some things that would make it maybe not possible. But let me take that as a homework assignment and give you guys more details.

We got passed the legalities. I thought the one would entertain whatever.

Again, just the conversation starter, right? Councilor Champagne had a question?

Thank you. I think the reason why we were expressing some interest is because we are frequently blamed by the community for things that are not being done, and we have no control over it. What I learned today is Caxambas Park is actually designated for businesses access to beaches and whatever the other thing was, and can't be used for any other purpose. One of the most frequent comments is, why can't I bring my mechanic to Caxamas Park to help work on my boat. Well, now we've found out today can't do that. That's not one of the designated uses. I think we need to know more information like that so we can publicize it to our community. Because clearly, they think we, even though we don't own it and run it, they think we have the authority over it, which we do not, clearly. So I think the better source of information we can get, the better source of information we can provide to the community. And I agree we need to be cautious on what we hope for because we have other issues probably bigger than managing CACS Amos Park in the immediate short term. But the more information you can provide to us on actual specifications that dictate what can and can't be done, the better it would be for us.

Yes, sir. If I might, I would tell you is that with future technologies we'll bring that forward. We will continue to work with Dr. Lucius. We've worked, gosh, I've known Casey a very long time. So I would tell you that we're happy to be able to provide her and your staff with any data that we have as well as tying it back to because we are also regulated much like any other agency to these permits. I would also say with regards to the permanent activity, the property is zoned for recreational use only, much like most of our boat ramps, and they are not commercial marinas. So it does bring into question it's a level playing field for a reason. We also have to follow it.

Commissioner Saunders.

I think part of your question was, would the commissioners be interested in entertaining the thought before we get into launching an investigation as to the legality of that?

Wanted to be respectful of staff time and what it might take to get to that point.

I will tell you, just from my perspective, I would have no issue whatsoever in voting to turn these over to the city of Marco Island. They're on Marco Island. They're in your city. I think we'd do a great job running it, but I certainly wouldn't have any problem myself entertaining that thought. Obviously, the devil is in the details. So I know you were asking that specific question.

I appreciate it. I appreciate it, Commissioner Lancashire. It's not something you're just looking to offload to us. You're also giving us the numbers, the background. We all represent the same county. Council Henry, you had your hand up.

I did, actually. I just, for the legality question, in 1997, Mackle Park, and I'm going to use these phrases, It was an intergovernmental asset transfer resolution negotiated incrementally between county staff and city administration. That was in 1997. And the same thing happened in 1998 between the county and the city for our racket center. So they were two situations where things that were managed by the county were in turn given to us. So I just want to make a point. We're not recreating the wheel. This has been done before.

We have to just make sure it's apples to apples. And when we were talking specifically about this, I think all of us would entertain the idea. But if we heard initially it's not possible due to legalities, then it doesn't matter if we would entertain it. So I would just say let's not put the cart before the horse. Agreed. I got it as a homework assignment. We all agree, exploring the conversation, and it might go further if it looks like there was a legal possibility, and if there wasn't, then it probably would come to a kind of a shorter discussion.

Maybe we can do a simple trade. We'll trade you the record center.

That's a no-give-back.

Then we all go to jail. Then we all go to jail.

Commissioner McDaniel, you had something to add?

We have to see the net income and expenses on that racket center before we start doing a trade. And the comment that I have has to do with making a brief expansion on what Commissioner Saunders says. The devil's in the details. These are countywide facilities available for all county residents, and sometimes people get possessory when assets like this are brought in by a municipality, and then the municipality gets to thinking it's just for them and their citizens. As we're moving, if in fact this moves forward, just please assure that these assets can and will be open for the entire residents of Collier County.

You would have some say-so on that, right? Just like our racket center has some conditions on it for free play and use of that. So certainly all open. Anybody else on this? I'll close it out with, I think we in the business, commissioners, counselors, we're always conscious of staff time, right? What it would take to put something together, to have a yes or no. So, Rick, I like what you're saying first. A little homework first, a little conversation opener then, if it gets to the heavy lifting.

All is in our court. We owe you the answers and the white paper, I guess.

I like it, the white paper.

Guys, I see a few people got to the bathroom. Anybody need a quick four-minute break or anybody need a, if not, you just take them yourself. We'll keep forging through. All right. We had a couple additional topics and we got a great time here. Commissioner, is there anything on your list you want to throw out to a counselor slash commissioner communication topic before I go into a few ancillary items here?

All right.

Maybe talk a little about the Isles of Capri septic to sewer conversion. We touched a little bit about it. Rick, our Commissioner Ocasio-Castro, this is something you're deeply invested in. Can you speak to that in a little detail? Or am I putting you on the spot?

I will speak to it in detail and reiterate we had great success, the first step isn't digging up the septic tanks, you have to do a study and I have said at several town hall meetings especially in Isles of Capri and some people on Marco Island who had concerns about it, it's not a matter of Marco divesting themselves from Isles of Capri. I believe it will always be some sort of cooperative effort, maybe less Marco, more on the county. But to determine that you have to do the study. In other communities where we have converted them from septic to sewer, it can be a five to seven year plan. So when I have people that think it's a a great idea and they want to know why we haven't already started. We're in the genesis of it, of Isles of Capri. It probably took me two or three years just to get people in Isles of Capri to talk about this because they were fighting it for so long. In other areas where we've converted septic to sewer, like I said, it took five to seven years from start to finish. We finally got over the first big hurdle which was it's great to do the study but does anybody have an extra $250,000 in their pocket? to fund it before we use county funds to do it. There are several different avenues you can go through. Maybe it takes a little longer, but if we can get $250,000 from another source rather than having it come out of our budget, we thought it was worth pursuing, and we have had that success. Trinity will go through maybe the short version of what's the next steps, what's the timeline, and most importantly, separating rumor from fact on a couple things. I saw this briefing yesterday, and I think it will answer a lot of questions.

Trinity, please.

Thank you. Once again, Trinity Scott, Transportation Management Services Department Head. So Isles of Capri, unincorporated area, south of Naples but north of Marco Island, an area that is a community served by aging septic systems. We experience septic failures during rain events that contribute to nutrient loading to the adjacent Rookery Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. the community lies within the city of Marco Island sanitary sewer service area so it requires a city county joint coordination Collier County provides the water service to the area so this I'm working with Matt McLean who is our public utilities department head for Collier County for the the water portion of it we'll be working with the city of Marco Island for the the sanitary sewer portion and then myself for the for the stormwater portion in 2025 we had a meeting with the county in the city of leadership just to kind of discuss the in Commissioner LeCastro actually spearheaded that to discuss you know how we can kind of take that project forward and the county requested $250,000 legislative appropriation to fund a feasibility study for the conversion and that feasibility study will develop a phasing schedule for how a project can be laid out it's going to look at you know do we need right-of-way things of that nature it's not going to get into detailed design drawings but it's going to really kind of set the stage for a how the project will move forward what will come out of that obviously will be a plan and this isn't the first time Collier County has done this we've done this with the City of Naples in the West Goodlatte phase one and phase two and we just finished a very similar study for Golden Gate City septic to sewer conversion that one is probably going to be a 20-year conversion or 10 plus years at least conversion and that one this will be a shorter time frame because we're dealing with a much smaller area so but the anticipated study duration for this is about two years and it's going to incorporate public engagement with the residents in the Isles of Capri area and certainly we're going to have the folks your your staff from Marco Island as well engaged but we will work through this and come up ultimately with a plan and then the study Sets us up for being able to go after future grants as well. That is one of the benefits of the study We have done that with the West good lit project. We utilized that study then to go after grants particularly on the sanitary sewer side because the conversion from septic to sewer is something that typically the legislature does look at favorably And we look at that. The other benefit of being able to do this project together is, one, we're tearing up the infrastructure one time so the road gets torn up one time, and then we share those costs of putting it back together. And then also the residents are inconvenienced one time.

Thank you. Before we open it up for questions, Commissioner Lacastro, sorry. Can you just, there seems to be, when I talk to the citizens of Isle of Scopree, there's some will to do this, but there's some concern that Marco is interacting because we have the rights to the plant. We didn't make it that way. The Daltona Corporation did. And then they asked questions as to, well, couldn't the county take care of it? Couldn't you run your own lines in? Where would they come from? Can you speak to that a little just as a public service announcement? Would you mind?

Well, number one, the study is going to tell us a lot of those questions. I get a lot of questions as well, and then I always wind up repeating the same answer, which is we don't even have a study. So the study might say an idea that everybody thinks would be the greatest thing in the history of the world, the study is going to say it's not. So that's number one. Number two, I will say that... citizens that are concerned this is somehow being force fed by either Marco trying to give it up or the county trying to pull it, a big part of converting any community from septic to sewer is community engagement and also will. Part of the reasons why I think this can got kicked down the road, maybe it wasn't as aggressively discussed with the citizens. It was sort of 50-50 and then it fell off of the list of priorities. So I don't know if I'm answering your question perfectly, but the timeframe, a lot of it is directed by citizen engagement, involvement, and not just and not at all the City of Marco and the county having meetings behind closed doors and force feeding some sort of conversion. But we need to study first, which will tell us a lot, and then we move forward, you know, from there. So I don't know. I might not have answered your question perfectly. I appreciate the clarity.

And if I may, and I'm sure Mr. Martin will correct me. Actually, it's not Mr. Martin probably. If I'm not mistaken, you already provide sanitary sewer service to at least a portion of the island already. So it would make sense, and it's within your service area, and so there's infrastructure there. And we don't have sanitary sewer infrastructure in that area. So it would make sense that Marco would do that.

My point, not by any of our design. This was deemed long before we were sitting at a table.

It is in the city's sewer service area. Correct. Councilor Golo, you had your hand up.

Yeah, my question would be for Justin. And this is also our 4E plan, correct?

It's one of the components within the 4E plan to develop a septic to sewer project out there. Given the proximity of the septic drain fields to the waterways, obviously you have nutrients going into those drain fields, which is connected to the groundwater, directly connected to the waterways. So, yes, this is a component of that alternate water quality plan that the city has with FDEP. Thank you, sir.

I'll just add the infrastructure that you have on Marco that supports Isles of Capri. I mean, we'll wait for the studies, but some of the questions I feel from citizens are their expectation that we're going to replicate and build all that infrastructure on the county side and then shut the door to Marco and then you will be out of the Isles of Capri business. First of all, I don't think financially that's going to be feasible, and I think the studies are going to point that out and say there obviously would maybe need to be some changes, some improvements, this, that, or the other, but to basically shut off the valve on Marco and we're going to build an entire infrastructure on the other side to support Isla Capri, that's not realistic, I don't think. But we'll get those ideas from the analysis and the cost estimates and things like that.

You have parks. We have septic systems. Boy, there's a lot to talk about.

I do actually have one question. Please, Counsel. Thank you, Ms. Scott. I was lucky enough to attend that meeting. What was that, 25 or 24? Oh, yeah, that's right. With representatives from the Isle of Capri, Commissioner LoCastro, our previous city manager, and our present city manager, just for a map. This is what we've got to do. So with that being stated, with our location, and I guess the next question is Goodland. Is that even in a conversation, and I'm not sure of the mapping, does that come to Marco? Does that go somewhere else? Because as we know, this is a long process that if a conversation were to be started, should it start now so it's on a 10-year plan?

You know we're getting 50 emails from Goodland by tomorrow.

I know. I'll jump in.

I'm just curious. To me, Commissioner LoCastro said it has to be a community will for starters or the state has to force it upon somebody. It's really the two directions. If there's no community will, I'm not looking to go to somebody else's community and impose my will on them. If it becomes a necessity through the state due to water quality and larger pictures, then we all have to sit at a table. But that's my thoughts on it.

Trinity can correct me if I'm wrong, but some of the serious issues we're concerned about on Isles of Capri, obviously they're a very environmentally sensitive area because all the waterways around, and not that Goodland isn't, but some of the leaching and some of the issues that we have on Isles of Capri aren't, in Goodland and I'm not an engineer, I don't have the study here but they don't seem to be as prevalent on Goodland so there again we can do anything but we can't do everything. Isla Capri is the focus and that's why we were successful in getting the 250,000 because we were able to spell out with photos, pictures, everything the serious concerns and to your point, Councilman Blumbo, the citizens of Goodland aren't blowing up my inboxes saying, you know, when can you pull out our septic tanks? I'm not saying people on Isles of Capri are, but even as Trinity said, when we just have like bad rainstorms on Isles of Capri, we see some serious septic issues. Not so much on Goodland, but, you know, will Goodland be in the in the rotation at some point. Well, a lot of places that are on septic tanks right now that aren't out in the middle of rural areas where septic is probably going to be there for a while, but these communities, they're going to be in the rotation at some point. And things that we learn on Isles of Capri then will help us with the next community. And not that we can't walk and chew gum at the same time and attack multiple different communities, but these are big, heavy lifting, expensive projects. You don't want to get out ahead of your headlights. and have all the studies done and then just put it on the shelf and not do anything because then things obviously change so isles of capri is the most vulnerable i would say right now and that's why we're focused on it like you said there is a community will there and the state may have a say so eventually in septic and coastal areas it might be a bigger conversation than us counselors commissioners anything else the counselor great please thank you um in light of this conversation i i wouldn't even know how to begin to assess this

Iowa Capri is unincorporated, is that correct?

Yes.

When and where and why might Iowa Capri and or Marco Island consider annexing Iowa Capri and would that have any favorable impacts on the management of this area? I'm just trying to look at how you move forward. I say everything out loud, which is why I travel under the cover of darkness.

I'll get you a white paper on that. It's going to be about 600 pages long, but I don't know.

Please, absolutely.

We, a couple of years ago, approved a development on Alza Capri with a commitment from a developer to extend bigger lines um to his facility and also enhance the culvert circumstances for the flush which is a huge environmental improvement and so the the the necessity for the annexation of isles of capri isn't a portion of that to offset those expenses the the major expenses running larger sewer line out there in order to facilitate the ultimate hook up to of the residents that are there along the way for the septic sewer conversion

I'll just tell you what I hear, you know, Marco, what was it, six referendum votes to become a city? Didn't happen quickly, right? Isles of Capri, you have a ton of people that moved there, and you have some from Marco, because they like that it looked like Marco 30, 40 years ago, they like the vibe. Community will would be needed, and I don't have any idea if there's even an inkling of thought there for that, but it's the best I could figure it out.

know I could just add because like in my district district four which is the city of Naples is in we don't have a natural barrier like you guys a water around your island you know that separates you from these close jurisdictional parts of the unincorporated Collier County but you know, you don't know where my line in between the city and District 4 is. And there's a lot of shared utilities that go across lines back and forth. Like there's half, you know, a portion of my district that's unincorporated is on city water, Naples City Water Authority. And then we have ones we have shared off of Bayshore and some of the communities right now we're talking about expansions that we have to share a lot of these. And you've already talked about the West Goodlett projects. So there's no, like, definitive, like, land barrier like you guys have that would, you know, that... Separates you so but it works. It's nothing.

We're not reinventing the wheel here on this project No, and do it on a regular basis, especially in my district and for clarification that the residents would pay connection fees to to to offset the cost, you know for the Capacity that they would be utilizing so I I don't know if that was the reason that you were asking that question for the annexation to perhaps offset those costs but they would be required to pay a connection fee and it's not typically a cheap connection fee for the which is another thing that we actually worked in the West Goodlett project we worked to get grant funds to be able to buy that connection fee down for the residents we were able to get grant funds to be able to buy that down to reduce that cost burden on the residents

Thank you. And I want to add to anybody who's watching, we are aggressively looking to do that for Isle of Capri. So we're not trying to force feed this. If we look like we would have success to get the cost bought down for residents but it might delay the project, we're willing to wait as long as there isn't some sort of major environmental type of issue. But this isn't we're making a command decision, here's your bill. And the county hasn't really done that to anyone. I'm not saying citizens haven't incurred a cost. But the cost has always been significantly less than what it actually is because of the different processes the county has gone through to get grants and things. And that can move sort of slow. That's why we needed this study probably several years ago. So right now we might be in the seeking grant window to try to buy down some costs. But it is what it is. But we're definitely moving forward more aggressively now. But we're not looking to pass on the costs blindly to any residents of Isles of Capri and they're concerned about that. Even the ones that are in favor of the conversion, their big question is how much is this going to cost me and our focus is as little as humanly possible and that's our going in position. But at some point, you know, those septic tanks aren't going to last forever.

And just to add to that, me and Commissioner Hall, I think it was one of our first meetings we attended four years ago. I think you guys did it on purpose. We were till 1 in the morning, I believe. And that was part of the deal that the developer would have had to put a main line from his the end of the line and all the way up to where your lift station was and increase the size the handle all the homes as it passed their properties so that was a cost that they're not going to get passed on to this the residents there because this developer has to pay that portion of it so that was a benefit for the community maybe if they didn't see it at the time eventually it would it'll be help with the cost when time comes to do the frontage fees for the tap in so one in the morning

Chair Cole, I'll follow up on something you said, Commissioner. Marco is a unique entity. We feel like a gated community. We're not, but we definitely feel like it. We function a little bit like it. We have two bridges, right? We're geographically separated from everything else. We have an odd evolution from the developer who had financial challenges and environmental challenges. So we're certainly a unique entity, and there's not a lot like us out there. So we don't have these shared systems, like you said. We don't experience it. I'll be a little bold and say we're blessed in a lot of ways. Crime, our police force, our citizens, hard to get to Marco, hard to, and we also have some challenges, not that this works out, but hard to bring people to work here, hard to get people to be able to live here, or working class. So we have a unique set of challenges that come with the benefits of our A little unique homeowners association feeling like community, even though we're not, but we certainly have a touch of that. Is anything else on the Isles of Capri to septic sewer conversion? Counselors, chairman, staff, anything? All right, tremendous. We're moving along with great time. I don't know if we'd get to this one. This is not my favorite, but I fostered this one on the list. Commissioner LeCastro, you know I've been on you for this one for a while, so I'll say just be open-minded a little. Let me pitch my case. All right.

Yes.

Well, that's how we meet our budget, though.

You got that, Ms. Manager? You hear that? All right. I know this one's a little bit of a touchy subject. Let me just pitch my ideas. I've been at this with Seawall, let's call it construction or staging or drop-off and pick-off points since about 2005 when I was first appointed to the Markle Island Waterways Association. Back then we were using lots, vacant lots. We were passing ordinances where a contractor can use a vacant lot to... pour and stage seawalls and pick up and drop off. We had rules and regulations, right? You can only do it three times a year in a particular lot. We didn't want them becoming a business. But we knew we were getting land scarce, which was the challenge. And we're still land scarce, and we still have some challenges. Now, there's new technologies. There's vinyl seawalls. There's things that make it much easier. Pour one on top of the other one. But when one has to be ripped out, replaced, which is going to be about They're estimating 70 miles of seawall on Marco Island. That is going to come near to the end of its useful life. So we're going to experience some challenges with this. So commissioners, here was my thought just as a conversation starter. And Commissioner Hall, you actually helped put this in my mind when our time on the TDC. You said, think big. Bring us some ideas. Bring us some initiatives. So I look at the staging area as not as a staging area, a possible maybe just drop off and pick up one or two days a week. Could we make the Gateway to Marco look more beautiful with a permitting fee? Could it be screened off? Could it be landscaped? Could it have a big wall, a picture of a manatee? Could a park be incorporated in that with a fishing pier in conjunction with the TDC? I don't know all the answers. I know that we in the city could possibly patrol it, police it, do the enforcement. We have a lot of options being closer geographically near it. Now one good question would be why don't you come on your own side of the bridge? We have a little land. looks directly at single-family houses, that's never going to get traction. This is a little bit less evasive, although it's county property. So I guess what I'm asking, would anybody be opposed if I put myself and the counselors, if they want to be involved in a public meeting, put a plan together with our seawall contractors and made a simple presentation, open-minded presentation? It might go nowhere, but I'm willing to do the time, energy, effort uh to see if we can't better beautify the gateway to marco bring some money in while doing it maybe make it a pocket park have a fishing pier who knows and make it a showpiece that only allows possible drop off and pick up maybe a couple days a week just my thoughts commissioner lucas do you want to start or do you have any thoughts on that

I mean, I don't think this needs to be a big, long debate, much like some of the other things. I'll echo what Commissioner Saunders said. I think we're open to anything. My initial concern is when I first moved to Marco Island, and I wasn't a county commissioner, every time I came home from work from Physicians Regional and drove over the bridge and I saw the big, giant pile of construction debris that sat there for three months in an unsafe way, it wasn't fenced off, it was nothing. waiting for a barge that never came to take it out to the Gulf to turn it into a reef. And I thought, wow, this is the front door to Marco Island. As you said, the citizens on the other side of the bridge would never entertain a staging area. I guarantee if a prominent senator or congressman or our governor lived on Marco Island, they would shoot this down right away. But coming back to the initial statement, would we entertain it? Sure. Some of my pushback has been when we removed all that construction debris, cleaned up that area, and allowed the front door of Marco Island to look like the way that it should, and then if you drive by there at any given time, not now because we obviously are letting the city of Naples for one time type thing and it's a government, it has public value to get the bridge rebuilt. That's a little different than giving county property away to a private business so they can construct seawalls cheaper, faster, better. I mean, I see seawalls being built all over the island. A barge pulls up to my, if I need a seawall right now on Buccaneer Court, barge would pull up to the back of my canal build the wall, pour it. And so there is a way to do it. Do we want to give the keys to a private business of county property and every two, twice a week, based on your proposal, so I'll blame it on you, tell people Here's the days where you wouldn't be able to access this county property because contractor A, B, or C is pouring seawalls there to save some money or to have a more efficient construction process. When we talked about it previously, I didn't think that was a great idea, only because when we cleared out all the construction debris there and made it a nice open area, the cheers we heard from citizens. So we got some citizens here, if they would like three days a week for that area to be roped off, And then I did get some of the proposals from some of the companies. As you would imagine, they've said to sort of sweeten the pot, well, we'll build a park, we'll put a fishing pier and everything. Yes, but then you'll still plop down your business there and have a convenience and a cost savings and all that that I'm not sure they would pass on necessarily to the customer. I mean, if... If you had water access at Mackle Park, would you like to take a big chunk of Mackle Park and give it away to a private company and let them do whatever they want there two or three days a week? So I always saw it as a bad idea. We let the Marco Island Yacht Club use that area as a staging area because if we didn't, then they also presented us with a map that would have shown trucks driving all over the island to get materials. So that one just made sense. And they also had a very tight timeline of when they needed that area. Right now, and I will tell you, we had a lot of conversations with the city of Naples to make sure that if we did allow them to use the base of the Jolly Bridge as a staging area, which they're using now, and it's not the only one. They have staging areas all over the county. So Commissioner Colwell's got a big one in one of his county park areas as well. But we wanted to make sure that it was for minimum time, it was kept neat and tidy, but the difference was they're building a pier that has community impact. So a civilian company being able to use county property to more efficiently build seawalls, it does have county impact. Marco's citizen impact because it's assisting citizens and maybe getting their sea walls built. I'll just say, rather than sit here and cuss and discuss and debate this one back and forth, I think we would take a proposal, you know, and if it's there again, we don't have a for sale sign in front of CACS Ambass, but if you think you want us to explore, you know, I'm handing the keys over to you. I don't know that anybody at the county has an appetite to two or three days a week have the base of the Jolly Bridge be closed to citizens when it's their county property, and quite a few people now utilize it. And I also felt that some of the proposals that I had heard from businesses who would benefit from it if we used it, it seemed like they sweetened the pot by saying, you know, I'll build a $30,000 fishing pier, but then the return on investment back to me when you let me use that area. know let's not get suckered by some um by some uh you know commercial businesses who i respect um greatly they provide a huge service but it's it's not like they're not able to build seawalls unless they get this footprint the naples pier will not be able to be reconstructed unless they get half a dozen lay down areas across the county that one's a no-brainer the marco island yacht club couldn't be upgraded the way it is without getting that lay down area. Because if we would have said no, you would have had trucks driving all over our island, which made no sense from a safety standpoint, wear and tear on the roads and things like that. This one, to me, seems like it would be 80% good for the civilian business and 20% good for us. If something could be presented that was legal, it made that area better for citizens and all of that. So I guess that will be flushed out in maybe the proposal. But I've been a really staunch supporter of preserving that area and keeping that front door of Marco Island clean, only because there are other options. When there hasn't been options, like I said with the Yacht Club or with the Naples Pier, OK, I hated it less. And then we all did partner. The city was very helpful to work with us on making sure that the plan was as tight as possible and that when the city of Naples no longer needed the Jolly Bridge, they would restore it to even better than what they found it. But making it a permanent spot and a dual use type of project. Like I said, I think we'd be open to the proposal, but I know I would have issues with it, continued issues, unless I saw or read something that was amazing and wonderful and, you know, the citizens of Marco think it's a great and wonderful idea, but I can tell you it wouldn't be something that would be coming from the county saying, boy, we really want to allow businesses to go there. So, you know, this would be something that Marco would present to us and like Commissioner Saunders would say, we'll consider anything. But there are some long calls in the tent on that one, and we want to make sure, too, that we're not taking away a benefit from citizens to utilize a county area because we gave the keys to a private business.

Heard and understood. I'm not saying it is possible, but if there's a will and a way, we'll see if we can make it better than it is and function for everybody. Councilor Champagne, do you have any thoughts?

I would... As a business person, I would not discount the concept yet. Let's make it a business plan. If someone wants to get a benefit for free, well, we remove the word free and you need to put skin in the game so that no one loses anything and we do have a public benefit. I would suggest that the plan has to be both a business for construction of seawalls and a benefit for the public. And the county should not absorb losses, nor should the city. The people benefiting from it should be paying some sort of fee, some sort of investment. I think it can be made to work so long as those who benefit put skin in the game and make some payments and pay fees on an annual basis, on and on and on. It's an area that could use upgrade, quite frankly. And the public could benefit at the same time as businesses could. But everyone should have skin in the game.

That will be a homework assignment on your side? I would only say consider the aesthetics. It's not like they're going to be operating out there invisibly. If they build a fishing pier and put a covered parking area and plant a few flowers, But three days a week there's going to be a giant crane there and barges coming in and out and a big area fenced off that's extremely visible so it looks like a permanent construction or lay down site. That's part of it as well.

It has to be under review let's put it that way.

Absolutely.

Bring Trinity to the podium, and then, because she has a comment on this, and I just want to say, when you do bring the plan, and I hear you're going to bring us a plan, and I really like...

I'm afraid to bring a plan now, but I would like to.

Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. I mean, what I also want to hear is, because you drive by it every single day. I drive by it once every six months when I drop the boat in on 951 and right by on the river, so... share with us some of your thoughts as to what could be done to make the aesthetics better for the community for your community as the gateway to Marco let us know what those things are and then a business proposition with regard to the shared use how that could benefit the residents of Marco as well as the county And then Trinity's got a comment.

Trinity, please. And two things. One, this is only a half acre site. A lot of folks get this confused with FDOT also has property that's adjacent to it. that they utilize for their bridge maintenance and they're not gonna allow us to encroach in on that so and then the other thing that I would say is and we have talked with several folks who have come together with the proposal and one of the things that we all have to take into consideration is is that coastal zone will be utilizing this site when we i just talked about the collier creek dredging this will most likely be the staging area for the collier creek judging we worked with marco island previously when there was a bridge project where they needed to deploy their their barge from this site so for those municipal projects those municipal projects need to take precedence Over any of the private business, you know and I believe your referendum just passed by one vote And I think that there was considerable bridge work in that I would expect that you're gonna be coming to me to talk to me about this site So I don't I don't I would like not to have this site encumbered when you come to me by by private folks so I just take that into consideration I try to hold this site you know sacred for those type of municipal type activities I understand that there's other private you know thoughts about it as well but I know when our coastal zone folks need to do a dredge this is in this particular area this is the site that that we need to utilize as well so taking that into consideration when you're thinking about those plans and like I said your future bridge workers well I know that that's going to be important appreciate the thoughts. And I would say also looking at the zoning on it I believe it's deemed right of way.

Yeah. The other thing was to correct me if I'm wrong Trini weren't we we're in a lot of deep conversation because of the FDOT won't allow us to do like a cut through or It's not an easy thing to navigate when you're coming one way, especially if you've got a big truck. You almost have to go find somewhere to do a U-turn to come back to utilize the entrance because you can't turn big trucks directly across. They won't allow us to put a cut through there.

You are correct. With the city of Naples and the pier project, they're actually going to have to stop traffic to be able to do U-turn and all that. Now, they are utilizing oversized vehicles as well. But, yes, it's going to involve Florida Department of Transportation, too, because it is their roadway and anything with regard to the access.

Yeah, the piers that are coming in have to actually be escorted, and sheriffs have to close traffic down momentarily. But they know exactly the time and location. date within the minute when it arrives. But the standard 18-wheeler bringing, I don't know what they bring, kind of materials for the walls or concrete trucks and that, it would still be an issue navigating in and out around the regular basis.

Do you have something in the city of Naples, don't they do something where their parks are by third of that direction? I see the Crane's Irving element by the dock in that direction, the boathouse or...

Well, no, we have, we're using Bayview Park. Bayview Park is the waste material from the pier that's coming off, offshore, onshore for landfill that's not being used for artificial reefs. And then they're pretty much finishing up with that. But that was one of the other park accesses they needed for the project.

Well, Commissioners, I'm not sure it's solvable, but I appreciate the ability to poke around and see if it could be, or at least brainstorm some ideas. Please, absolutely.

think I'd ask our staff to explore if there are other options we talked about that half acre I didn't realize it was that small I can understand that that would be a problem and I understand the state would be reluctant to work out things but that doesn't mean it would be impossible so I don't know if that the state think would be a possibility I would suggest that I would be

willing to at least take a look at options but maybe there's other options than that just that half acre I appreciate that thank you listen nothing's off the table when you're as land scarce as we are you try to brainstorm any idea you can just to see if it'll stick guys any other thoughts or comments on this any closing thoughts counselors commissioners before we open up to public comment anything

All right. We need to do it more frequently.

There you go. We can have a few closing before we adjourn.

Jim, how many people are signed up for public comment? We have four registered speakers, one of which wishes to concede time to another speaker.

So they'll get six minutes for that speaker?

Yes. Please call them up. Okay. So our first speaker who wishes to concede time is Ms. Diana Dome, and she wishes to cede her time to Ms. Sharon Lockwood.

Sharon, come on up.

Good afternoon, commissioners, city council, industry partners, residents.

I'm sorry, just state your name for the record, please.

Sharon Lockwood. My name is Sharon Lockwood, and I have the privilege of serving as the area general manager of the JW Marriott Marco Island, the largest resort in Collier County and one of the most significant economic drivers in southwest Florida hospitality landscape. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you today about two opportunities that are vital to the continued strength, competitiveness, and long-term sustainability of our tourism economy. We've spoken about the first, which is the addition of the six cents of the tourism development tax, and I'd also like to speak about the privatization of the Collier County Convention and Visitors Bureau. Let me begin with the six cents. Tourism is the lifeblood of Collier County. It fuels our small businesses, supports thousands of jobs, and provides the resources that allow us to maintain world-class beaches, parks, and infrastructure. But the expectation of today's travelers and the realities of maintaining a premier destination have changed dramatically. We are competing not just with other Florida counties, but with global destinations and visitors' experiences. Oh, I'm sorry. And global destinations that are investing aggressively in marketing, beach preservation, and visitor experience enhancements. This sixth sense is not paid by the residents, although I do know that Commissioner McDaniel said unless they wanted to book a hotel room or an Airbnb in the county or in Marco Island, but they're paid by the tourists who visit our county and city each year. So the six cents is not simply a tourist tax increase. It is an investment in Collier County and Marco Island's future. And importantly, it will deliver both immediate and long-term benefits. In the near term, the Sixth Sense may allow us to complete the sports complex expansion. The first focus is on the new baseball fields, as we had mentioned earlier. Thank you, Commissioner Saunders, appreciate that. And it'll bolster what is very important, which is summer demand and tourism. As you know, there is a disparity between the visitors that we have in season and the visitors that we have in our second and third seasons of the year. And this project will also strengthen our community, support youth sports, and expand event capacity. It is a tangible, visible improvement that residents and visitors will benefit from right away. But the true value of the Sixth Sense is far beyond the initial project. It gives us the ability to protect our beaches, strengthen our tourism infrastructure, and ensure that our destination remains resilient in the face of storms, erosion, and rising operational demands. As the general manager of a resort that welcomes hundreds of thousands of guests each year, I see firsthand how essential these investments are. Our visitors expect pristine breaches, reliable amenities, and a seamless experience, and they notice when those expectations aren't met. The Sixth Sense allows us to meet those expectations. It ensures that the burden of these investments is shared by the visitors who enjoy them rather than falling solely on our residents. Now turning to the second opportunity, privatization of the Convention and Visitors Bureau. The tourism landscape is evolving at a pace that government structures often struggle to match. Marketing trends shift overnight. Traveler behavior changes rapidly. Competitive destinations are nimble, data-driven, and highly strategic. And to remain competitive, Collier County needs a tourism organization that can operate with the same agility. Privatizing the CBB would allow for faster decision making, more innovative marketing strategies, and stronger partnerships with our private sector. It would enable us to leverage industry expertise, respond quickly to market conditions, and invest in campaigns that reflect real-time traveler trends. Flexibility is no longer a luxury, it is a necessity. And in closing, Marco Island and Collier County are world-class destinations, but world-class status must be earned, protected, and invested in. The Sixth Sense and the privatization of the CVB are commitments to the future of our community, our workforce, and our economic vitality. And I strongly support both of these measures, and I stand by to partner with each of you to ensure Marco Island and Collier County continues to thrive as one of the most exceptional destinations in the world. Chair Palumbo, you said we are all in this together. and paradise, and I agree with that. Thank you. Thank you.

Our next registered speaker is Mr. David Boggs.

David, welcome.

Good afternoon, commissioners and the wonderful Marco Allen City Council. I just wanted to... Your name, please. Oh, David Boggs, Marco Allen. Talking about Tiger Tail, recently we had a... ambitious debate about fishing on the beaches. And season is coming soon. And sometimes there's a conflict when fishermen and beach goers are in the same place. And Councilor Champagne had recommended, and Councilor Palumbo said, well, why don't the fishermen go to Tigertail? And one of the obstacles in going to Tigertail is accessibility. It's difficult for us to get there with our gear, equipment. And so as season approaches, but I'm learning now the government takes so long, it could be decades before we could even get this resolved. But is there a way? that Collier County could look at putting in some type of a boardwalk, a floating dock, or something to help us get across the lagoon so that we can actually reach the beach without having to go 10 miles. That's what it feels like anyway. But in doing this, you would accomplish a lot of good for everyone. For beachgoers on South Beach, It would avoid so many conflicts that are there. And it also opened up an opportunity for us fishermen to enjoy the beach without interference of fishermen. And that was kill two birds with one stone just by providing access. And so I think it would be something that we could look at or I would encourage you to look at it. And the reason I even think of this is one day during last season, There was like 15 or 20 fishing poles during the day. And luckily, I wasn't fishing that day. I just happened to walk the beach and I was like, man, this is crazy. And it's because Marco doesn't have a designated fishing zone. Like Naples, you have the fishing pier. You have designated area where fishermen can go and get out of the way of beach goers. So could we look at that as we develop Tiger Tail or revamp it and bring it back to find a way that we could access so that we could get out of the way of swimmers and go fish without having the conflicts that seem to come during season. So I appreciate your time. I'm thankful for Marco Island City Council. And if we could find a way to bridge that lagoon, we could solve a lot of problems together and do a lot of good for our city. So thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Our final registered speaker is Mr. Brian Gilmore.

Brian, come on up.

Welcome, and if you just state your name for the record, please. Brian Gilmore, Collier, Seawall, and Dock. Councilmen, commissioners, appreciate the opportunity just to say a few words today. Thank you for the public that's here and for those watching. I don't prepare statements when I speak. I just like to speak from the heart. I have been on the waterways committee here We've our company's been in business. I'm the owner 22 years in business here on Marco You know five-star Google rating 100 reviews plus I mean got a business bureau We just we're not perfect, but we try to do things right the best of our ability and we feel like we always try to partner with our customers and with the public and with the city and the county and and and everyone involved you know if anybody ever needs anything you know we try to help out and when we're working for people you know we see it as a partnership so just here to thank commissioner lacastro for his comments about that bridge site we have met i met with him privately to talk about it and he is super smart and he explained everything about you know how things have to you know have a kind of a groundswell of of support and and that's why um uh councilman palumbo talked to him also and and he was uh open to um this idea because you know Without the ability of the ordinance that we have now for staging on private vacant lots around the island, you know, we'd be pushing barges back and forth to Naples to the landing because Naples has a site there and you pay them and you pull up your truck and you offload. And that's all we'd be looking to do, you know, over by the bridge. You know, but we do have the vacant lot ordinance. And When the property owners agree to allow us to use their land, we have to give them all of our insurance information, obviously. We have to pay them, so forth. And we have to respect the property and take care of it. We don't make panels on lots anymore because that ordinance, we were able to do that, but now we buy them and we truck them in. So the trucks are coming over the road anyways. The trucks are just going to a vacant lot somewhere in a neighborhood, which we still need, even if we had the bridge site. It would just alleviate maybe a little bit of that in the neighborhoods. So to get a truck over to that bridge site to drop something off or pick up a load of debris, of material, It would just probably go over the other bridge and just come around and then over the jolly bridge and into that site So not saying anything's perfect about it appreciate, you know, the fact that you'd be open to listening You know Just everything I've heard, I've been here for over two hours with y'all, and it's amazing what you guys do. I couldn't even scratch the surface of what you guys all have to deal with, and everybody in the public. Every single person here has their own agenda, their own interest, but you guys have to deal with it all. So hats off to you guys. And just wanted to let you know that we appreciate any opportunity to be part of something that could help the residents. Because you've got to think, you're on an island. Let's not forget we're on an island. So barges are needed. Walls fall down. They have to be fixed. And we're here to do it. Thank you.

Councils, commissioners, we've had a great time here. Any final thoughts? Quick thoughts by anybody? Mr. Chair, anything you want to add?

No, I just think this was a well-planned out, thought out venture between our two organizations here, our two governments, and I think it was probably needed a few years ago. I mean, I don't know. I heard a rumor it was probably a decade ago maybe, the last time.

We came down here shortly after we were elected in 2016.

So it's 10 years. Yeah. And when I got the opportunity to be the chair this year, I kind of wanted to. have this type of olive branch even with the city of Naples and I know I talked to Amy about us getting with the different incorporated cities within our footprint of the county so I'm kind of glad this happened and I think it's and I think it is important that the citizens see like the gentleman from the wall company to see wall companies is There's a lot of moving parts, a lot of moving parts. And as you move up in the hierarchy of government, it just gets more moving parts. But I think, like Commissioner Castro said, that it helps if we're all thrown in the same direction. we all want the best thing for our citizens that's what we're all here for you know we just want to do the right thing and the best thing and i think we can kind of get our heads together we don't need an official meeting for a council member to reach out to one of the commissioners or mr listener miss commissioner castro because he represents this district if they got an idea they got a project or something they're thinking about get with them i mean that's we that's why the voters in marco island vote for him you know he might not directly represent them but they still vote for him so that's what we're here for and that's what i tell the people of the city of naples i might not represent you on every aspect of a building permit or anything like that that's your your government that has to handle that but i'm still here to represent you any way i can through the county and i try to express that to them so i think it's important that we all have that mindset moving forward. Thank you.

Yes. I want to say thanks to our manager, city manager, Casey Lucias. Dr. Lucias, thank you for arranging this wonderful event. And one more thing, Mr. Lacoste has the longest and the longest newsletter every month. And it's extremely – no, actually. It's extremely informative. But the difference between reading Commissioner Lacoste's detailed data and presentation, I think this is so much better. Here is the reason why, that we're actually really killing a lot of misrepresentation or a lot of wrong and not right information. So this is very important. I'm not asking to do it all the time, but I think Mr. Lacoste should, I think his newsletters are incredible. And I think this open communication is still much better. And every one of you commissioners, thank you for being here. That's all I can say.

So one thing I'll say about the newsletter, it's for the citizens and I have over 80,000 subscribers and we had four people at the podium so I think it serves both purposes. I get a lot of positive comments. Let me just throw this out there and Commissioner McDaniel is going to hate this statement but when we have public comment at our commissioner meetings He'll always whisper to me, especially if somebody says something where we could provide an easy answer to that person, right, or maybe they say something that is so egregious that we're all leaning forward. You know, it's totally up to the chairs here, but when something was asked about Tiger Tail on the boardwalk, I do have two sentences that would at least answer that if anybody is curious. If not, I'll just send you the details, but it's up to you. Yeah, so that idea is an old one that has been addressed even before I was a County Commissioner. In order to build a boardwalk across the Tigertail Lagoon you would need permits and approvals by a lot of different environmental organizations. And I even floated the idea so I could make sure that the answers that were a bit dusty that I had heard were still relevant. And the answer that comes back from the environmental groups that would have to be part of making access easier for Tigletail was that's such a fragile area. We're not looking to make access easier for people to cut through the lagoon. cut through the mangroves so they can get to the beach easier and quicker. Also, too, if you made it more convenient, it would bring more people to Tiger Tail and so there would be other issues. So I'll just leave it at that. It's been asked and answered multiple times and that's why it has never been approved or explored. do the environmental impact. And like I said, the conclusion always at the end is we're not looking to make access easier there to cut through that area because of how sensitive it is. And we would need the approval of multiple organizations, and you know who they are, Fish and Wildlife and some others, and they've been asked and answered that question multiple times. We're rare but that one I just thought I was sitting on a quick answer it saved me an email to you all yes thank you first I'd like to thank the commissioners for making the drive down here and

Meeting with our elected representatives I'd like to thank the county manager for her partnership as well as the county staff who attended and they're always very responsive and cooperative with our city staff and then finally We would like to get a picture of all the elected officials who are here today Before you run out if you'll just meet in the lobby outside and we'll get a photo. Thank you

Casey, I was going to finish with some of the same thoughts, and I'll just say quickly echo what you said. Commissioners, thank you for coming down. Thank you for coming to our area. We appreciate it. Mr. Chair, thank you for letting me run the meeting. I have confidence in that. I appreciate you on that. And let's hope to do it again sometime very soon. And the last thoughts I said, it's not just what Collier County can do for us. We are part of Collier County. If we can do something for you, please don't hesitate to reach out also. Yes, sir, please.

Well, I've said this at other meetings, sort of a call to action. I'd like for the city council to take a position in support of the tourist development tax. And seriously, try to get the vote out because this will benefit the city of Marco Island into the distant future. But we have to get a positive vote.

Do we miss anybody? Commissioners? Counselors?

Can I add one more thing? It's great to get us all together here, but I'm always at your disposal. So if you're trying to speak to all the commissioners, much like I told Micah, that if they have an issue, they need to speak to their elected officials. I'm your elected official here. So if you want to pass message to the county commissioners or what have you even if it's something that maybe I don't agree with it's not my job to filter it out and keep it from my peers so rest assured that if if something came through the proper channels and there weren't sunshine law issues or whatnot but it was a topic you wanted to streamline to the county and eventually possibly the fellow commissioners you know I'm not I'm not a speed bump at all and can easily accessible as you know

I think you represent as well. Guys, 3.58, excellent. Two minutes on. They're going to have to extend anything. No other thoughts? Workshops adjourned. Thank you.