Planning & Zoning / Properties & Recreation Committees - Regular Meeting

opening up the planning and zoning uh committee meeting for Wednesday, March 11th, 2026. I'll start with the approval of the planning and zoning meeting minutes from February 18th. Is there any questions or comments or concerns on those? If not, I'll take a motion to approve that. Motion moved by Vaughn. Second. Seconded by Gusky. All in favor? I I All right, we have one public participation. Uh Denise Nicholson.

Good morning, everybody. Um, the attempt to pass and normalize remote access does not sit well with me and others who cannot be here today due to travel at the time of this meeting. Because of the strong push to maintain voting power, I am here to voice strong opposition for anything remote regardless of the situation and consecutive absences. Wasn't remote access scheduled to be discussed at 5:00 p.m. on Monday, March 16th? Why was this changed at a time that people are unable to attend? Why suddenly is this such a rushed issue? [snorts] In my opinion, to keep the majority vote, that's what this is all about. When the idea of remote access originated, shouldn't the subject have first [cough] had been first discussed with Mayor Lammore and then the village lawyer? Isn't that the line of progression? Um to me it's just also it shows respect. My question is can any of the trustees put something on the agenda go through the village lawyer without [snorts] the consent of the mayor and do we meaning the village get charged? In my opinion, the last village board meeting, the topic of remote access appeared to be a power move by trustee and lawyer to blindside Mayor Lammore. Again, my opinion because of the discussions that were going on at that time. It certainly looked that way to an outside observer. Please vote no on this remote access issue. No one elected a television screen to be a board member. [snorts] Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Uh we got a couple people here, I think. Uh so we'll start with uh Paul Spas requests. This is a former Copeland location. Are they here today? No. Okay. All right. We can push that then. All right. We got then uh Dr. Chararma for the rehabilitation business plan presentation. [clears throat]

Hi. Uh, my name is Dr. Chararma. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak here with you all today. Um, I have a prepared speech, but you know, I'm going to kind of fly by seat of my pants here. Um, so I am looking at the property 411 West Division Street currently mental health and uh I have three existing drug and alcohol treatment centers out of uh Will County uh that are specifically residential treatment facilities for men. [snorts] And uh recently I got one approved in uh Will County for specifically a new population of the female population. For the past 10 years of my life, I've kind of worked in the residential drug and alcohol treatment space and I operate very small treatment centers um numbers between 13 and 16 uh residential beds at any given time. So when I came upon this property here in Mantino, um I had a lot of interest in it and came out and saw it, struck a deal with the uh Aircoy Mental Health um organization uh for the sale of it and uh currently I had put a stipulation in there pending board review and board approval contingency. So, I didn't come in here thinking I have anything uh guaranteed. But whenever I come to a board, I like to present everything and answer all the questions that people may have because this isn't something that you can just randomly walk into. Again, I've been doing this for the past 10 years. I've stood in front of multiple boards, city councils to discuss proposals such as these. And I wanted to give all of you the opportunity to hear me out, one, and two, also ask any questions that you may have in regards to the operation and scope of this project. Um, if it were to be approved.

Now, I could rattle off a series of statistics based off the Cane County. If you'd like to hear them, I could read them to you. Um, so the Illinois public department of public health, sorry, Illinois Department of Public Health reports that Cani County had 27 opioid overdose. possessed in 2023 and opioid overdose fatality rate of 25.5 per deaths per 100,000 residents um which is above the statewide rate. Statewide in 2023 Illinois recorded 2,855 opioid involved deaths. Locally, the Kaki County Health Department's own work reflects the size of the problem and the urgency of prevention. In 2024, they report 18,568 Nlloxxone kits distributed, 1,42 Nlloxxone trainings, and 129 businesses picking up Nlloxxone supplies in order to deal with the opioid epidemic. Um, this does not happen in a county where overdoses are rare. This happens in a county where the community has already decided we'd rather save lives than look away. So what I am proposing and this is what it will be if it gets a chance to get off the ground. A 13 to 16 residential bed facility. It will not be co-ed. This will be strictly for women struggling with drugs and alcohol issue. It's an underserved population um across the state of Illinois and very if not any are there exclusively just female drug and alcohol rehab treatment centers. Um, these women would be staying at the residential facility, assuming it happens. Their detox will actually happen at the hospital that they come from. They will not uh be detoxed in house. The average length of stay for any resident that would be at a facility is about 28 days. And uh my personal mission was to work with the

um less affluent um or poor. So, I accept and work primarily with all Medicaid and state-based insuranceances. Um, that is my primary objective. That's what I've always done. This is not a large facility. I know a lot of people have fears that, you know, people will be randomly walking around the streets and acting uh out of pocket, but this is a voluntary program. So, for those who come to this, they choose to come to rehab in order to get their lives back in order. Um, [snorts] it is not a walk-in shelter. It is not a place where people come and go freely at at any at all hours. It is a very structured supervised clinical program for those who are taking steps um from crisis to recovery. Um this location that we looked at it's well it it it's a perfect center. It has everything there organizationally, structurally. Um it is uh previous uses were actually for hospitals is what I came to find out at one point or another. So it's not a foreign concept for residents staying overnight inside of that building. Granted its use has evolved over the course of the number of years. Um but I think it is in its original form it was built to actually help out the community members locally. Um, I also know that many times when uh when people kind of feel this facility uh or or feel the pressure of a facility like this potentially opening up in their town, they worry that you're going to bring in um addicts from all across the state. So, that's a myth. I'm the first one to tell you that because I've been in this field for the past 10 years of my life. Most people that seek out treatment, they like to go somewhere local because they like to be close to their community. Um given the crisis that I do receive clients from uh [clears throat]

um Kanka Key, the two hospital systems here, I believe it's Riverside and St. Mary's

and St. Mary's. Correct. Um I do receive a lot of male clients coming to uh Will County because the treatment options are very limited in their own county. I also find that to be a barrier. So whenever we do assess somebody over the phone, we ask them like what are your uh potential barriers to coming to treatment at this facility? And the number one cause that they always identify is it's too far away. So with that being said, um I guess the core question is will this make Mantino less safe? Um, I want to answer this uh just as plainly as possible. My goal is uh ultimately to reduce community risk by reducing untreated addiction. Untreated addiction is what drives repeated EMS calls, family instability, drug-seeking behavior, theft, and overdose events. A well-run residential program does the opposite. It removes people from active use. It stabilizes them medically and psychologically. It connects them to ongoing care so they don't have to cycle back through emergency services. One of the um largest problems that we have is lack of treatment opportunities. So when a person does go to a hospital and is in dire straits and they're asking for help, what typically happens is they become stabilized and then they're put back out to the street where they tend to continue the behavior that got them there in the first place. Right? It's like the recidivism portion of, you know, when you send someone to prison, chances are they're going to repeat again. It's the same concept when it comes to addiction. Without proper support and treatment, we know this is a very vulnerable population. We know that they're dying at a very alarming rate. We know that with female populations specifically, the treatment opportunities are very limited. Um, so with all that in mind, um, it connect sorry and and this is not just my opinion. National public health

guidance recognizes residential treatment as a legitimate EV evidence-based level of care for substance use disorder, typically lasting weeks to months and often paired with ongoing care after discharge. Um, I want to be very concrete when I say the following to you. Uh, these facilities that I own are staffed 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It's a 365 year day job. Uh, there is never a night off. Um all the clients there when we're talking about 13 at max residents staying at a facility um they're monitored by two overnight supervisors during the daytime. We have about eight or nine staff members that include operations clinical staff as well. Um, in order to reduce the burden on counties in in Will County, for instance, and Joliet, I even took it upon myself to if a if a patient needed to go to the hospital, um, my staff members would drive them there unless it was an absolute dire emergency in case of like a heart attack or or serious spells of fainting or seizure. It's the only time we call EMS services. But because of our rigorous um structured intake process, uh we rule out all of those. I'd say our average admittance rate to this type of a program is about 33%. So we take our work very [snorts] seriously. the type of clients that we bring into the facility. We make sure that they're there for the right reasons, that they are going to benefit from the type of therapy that we provide them, which includes a combination of individual and group psychotherapy, but primarily it's heavily uh based on one-on-one therapy, which again is very rare treatment modality for some reason in Illinois, but it's what I pride my facilities on to actually help a client sort of uh figure themselves out and understand why they are the way they are. so that they can overcome the addictions and other problems that

they're facing in their life. Controlled access. We don't let any visitors come into the facility. So, the only people that would be at this facility are the staff. Um, we don't leave the facility for 28 days. There are no, hey, let's go to the local store and walk around. Let's go see a movie. Um, when someone commits themselves to this type of a program, they know what they're getting into. They are going to be there lock step in for 28 days at a time and there are no outside communications. [clears throat] There are no visitors that will be showing up at the building. There are no random events like that happening. Highly disciplined structured program and everybody that comes to it has to agree to the uh policy and procedures that we um implement at our facility. We have a zero tolerance rule for things like violence, [clears throat] violence, threats, contraband or drug activity. And these are immediate grounds for discharge and escalation to the appropriate authorities. We work with our local partners. Um me personally with all of our community members in um Will County. I work extensively, very closely with the sheriff. I work very closely with the Will County Health Department. Um, we have a lot of partnerships that I mean I could give you a laundry list of all the different organizations that we're tied into to provide afterare for all the clients that come into our treatment facilities and so on so forth, but we are very well entrenched in that. So when we go into a facility, I'm sorry, when we go into a neighborhood, we become part of that neighborhood, right? We actually, you know, people know in that neighborhood, even the Uber drivers will be dropping people off or picking people up and they'll say things like, "Oh, that's ECS. That's where uh people go to get help." And the one thing I will tell you is that no matter what property I've taken, um the security measures that we install inside and outside of the building help contribute to actually public safety. Any building that I've ever overtaken, it was typically

um empty. It was an [clears throat] eyes sore and when I took these buildings over the neighborhoods that they were in weren't the greatest to begin with, but you know um because they know that we're heavily involved with the police department and that's one of our partnerships. Bottom line, we call police if we see something. So, it's not something that we hide from. Uh we ensure that you know our camera systems are also monitoring the neighborhood, the area around our building, the street need be, all of those kind of things. So we actually ensure that you know that there is going to be a heightened level of security not just inside but around our premises as well. Um we have a good neighbor policy. So for instance I don't let any violent offenders into the building. I don't let any sexual predators into the building. Uh we do a thorough background check on every person that's admitted to ensure that they don't have any of these type of criminal histories. Um, these are average people and in this case, if approved or if if if given the opportunity to do this, uh, these would be women that are literally just like the rest of you. All the problem is that they have a drug issue or they have an alcohol problem, but they're willing to work on it. And I know that there's a need because even at St. Mary's in Cana Key. The one question that I get asked often is when are you opening up a female center? Because everyone in the in the facilities know that it is a shortage and not too many facilities are doing anything about it. Um what does Mantino get in return? If you approve this, you're not just allowing a business, you're enabling a community health solution with real local benefits. [cough] [clears throat] Fewer overdoses, fewer repeat crises by connecting people to structured care. Support for families because addiction is not just a oneperson problem. Reduction burden on

emergency systems over time medicated steps after hospital detox rather than sending people back into the same environment without structure. So, I'll say this in closing. Uh my request is is simple. I would appreciate it if I could be given the opportunity um that you would allow me or afford me the opportunity to open a small structured residential treatment program that matches a size and scale appropriate for Mantino in a location that has a documented history of similar use and with clear specific practices and accountability. I'm not asking you to take a leap of faith. I'm asking you to evaluate my plan and hold me to it. If you approve this, you're not inviting trouble. You're inviting treatment. You're inviting solutions so families have a place to send their loved one before the next overdose, before the next arrest, or god forbid before the next tragedy. And as I close, even in this tough, even in the toughest of times, there's things within us that carry us forward. What we start here today is that something called strength. I'm honored here to build it with you if I get the opportunity to do so. I look, you know, my my intention is to become a partner, you know, so I can help address some of those issues that are happening here in Mantino and the surrounding Kiki County. Um, thank you for your time and if you have any questions, I'm more than willing to answer them.

What is the name of your business? Existential Counselor Society, ECS. [cough] Dr. [clears throat] Chararma, you mentioned that uh you're uh operating in Will County. Is that is that correct? Okay. Uh what um what municipalities uh are your uh locations or where are

So two of my locations fall in Will County proper under Will County jurisdiction. One of my uh [clears throat] locations fall under Joliet City. I'm currently working on a project in Grundy County hoping to get that approved for residential treatment center out there. It would be the first one in Grundy County. And again, even for that facility, I was actually invited by their drug court and asked to come explore and open a facility in that area because they didn't have it and they have a massive drug problem in Grundy County. So, you have a location in the the city of Joliet in unincorporated uh Joliet. No, it it it is proper Joliet City within city limits.

But you mentioned another location in unincorporated. Other two are in unincorporated Will County and then a third location that's not open currently in Grun. Yeah. Okay. So that's two two operating facilities. Three operating facilities all male. [cough] Um I'm [snorts] not going to claim to be an expert in this field but obviously it's a needed uh needed service. Um you know it's not a problem until it's a problem, right? Um, right.

The location uh currently um obviously you've walked through that location. Is there any uh upgrades, any work that you're going to plan on doing to that facility? Any improvements to the site? For the most part, that facility, the reason I was extremely attracted to it was because it, [clears throat] first of all, functioned as a residential place at one point, and it looks like [clears throat] um from what I could tell without having looked at the original plans. Um the structure is the same, but they repurposed some of the uses. So, it has a full functioning kitchen downstairs, uh commercial kitchen. It has uh where we would be using that to prepare meals. Um, it has a sprinkler system. It already has an alarm system. It has all of the steel doors that you would require for fire safety. Um, what else? It has multiple offices. It has a staff lounge. It has a um lobby, you know, where someone can come in and actually be intake properly. All of those kind of things. I mean, structurally that building is almost perfect, right? I think the upstairs requires a sprinkler system. um an addition to certain areas of it which would not be a problem but in essence it's I don't want to say it's a turnkey thing but it's almost to that level. Yes.

One thing I would uh would recommend is um obviously we'd uh you know want our code enforcement officer to walk through the property. We have a maintenance code. Um we'd want uh you know obviously any [clears throat] deficiencies brought up to code. um something to consider [clears throat] uh in the purchase of the building. And uh Chris, I I don't know, maybe you can answer this question. Would the fire department need to walk through the facility prior to an occupancy? Yeah, we we typically do that for any commercial property. We invite the fire department to come along and do a life safety check before any any business opens.

So facilities like mine, just to kind of add to that, we're held to a very high rigorous standard obviously because we have residential component there. So fire safety, life safety needs [cough] accreditation doesn't happen unless the fire department, the county, the city gives its approval. So that's the occupancy. Without that, I can't get accredited through the joint commission, which all of my three facilities are. Joint commission is one of the largest accrediting bodies for all hospitals across the United States. Um, so I've had consecutive um, facilities that have been approved by the joint commission um, because I do maintain those rigorous standards and and and our primary objective here is to save a life. So, we're not going to do anything that could potentially harm them while they're in our care. [snorts]

A little bit of history about your building. Um, I know that it was a hospital. It was built to be a hospital called Hillman's Memorial Hospital and there were two Korean doctors that that worked there and they were general MDs, but they did surgeries there. Babies were born there and as the years went by and the doctors, it became a [cough and clears throat] facility for people with alcoholism problems. And I know recently it's been Irakcoy and I I think that was a mental health place. So I've been in it recently. I was just in there last year. The rooms are beautifully decorated and painted and I didn't see anything that looked out of line. You know, like you said, it's almost turnkey.

Yeah, it is a beautiful location. And funny thing, my dad's a retired cardiologist. He'd been in practice for almost 53 years and I told him that I was looking at a building in Mantino and he goes, "Oh, I used to work at the uh psych ward that they had in Mantino many years ago." Yes. And he said it was my job to provide medical care. because he had just come over from India actually from London and he was working here in his uh first couple years while starting his private practice. So state hospital was east of town at one time they had upwards of 10,000 patients that live there. It was bigger than the community of what two or three thousand people.

Yeah. So, we have had a lot of medical, you know, facilities in our town, and I think it's a great idea that we would have someone like you come and take care of this. Thank you, Chris. Does this need a public or does this need a a special use permit? Is that what No, actually, it's flatout not allowed in the zoning. So, in our C2, which is the zoning of that property, um it specifically says you cannot have uh patient care overnight. So, we would have to amend the zoning ordinance. So that would have to go through the planning commission, have a public hearing, get a recommendation from the planning commission, and then bring it to the board. When did that change? Cuz that was the result center for years. Yeah, they don't keep anybody overnight. Well, resolve center kept people over for 90 days there.

Uh it's in the zoning ordinance that it's not allowed. So So when did So they we ran it illegally for years? They may have been doing that. Yeah, we were not aware because my mother worked there for 15 years and they had youth 13 to 18 year old youth there. They were there on a 90-day program. Yeah, I remember that. It was about 25 years ago. Maybe 30. Oh, well, yeah. This this the zoning ordinance, I think, was updated in 19 or 2005, maybe 2006. I know they're still operating at that time.

Well, we can we can at least start that process. I feel like feel we're going to obviously do some more research into this. Again, you seem very legit. I feel like it's again a great program that we could have. That's something obviously our county needs to and you said it's a great location. and we might as well keep it kind of going that way. You wouldn't need it to build any more residential. No, I think that's already

So when they come in for So typically what happens is when when a client does come to our facility after 28 days, we help them get into a uh what's called sober living. So they would go to somewhere close to home or they have local sober livingings in various towns. So they just call them, they see if they have any availability and they'll get admitted. And then they'd also have extended residential programs. Um, not through my facility because I'm strictly just a 28-day treatment provider. And beyond that, we just call that a step down to a lower level of care when they go into, let's say, a 60-day or a 90-day treatment program beyond that. So, that would be the same thing here. We wouldn't be like uh building on the lot or doing anything like that to house anybody beyond the 28 days.

You're not going to be having any outpatient treatment. They're just all inatient. All inatient. Yeah. I mean, they had the place that had it before had outpatient where all those guys were sitting outside. Yeah. So, I mean, it's completely different. No, it's very private. You know, when when I say that to you, it's uh you if you [laughter] ever [cough] if you ever [clears throat] wander out towards Joliet and you look up our facilities, when you drive by, you'll never see anybody hanging around. I spent a lot of time in that building. A lot of time. Yeah. Well, then I guess we can add that to the planning commission meeting for be April at this point. Yeah. He'll have to file an application. Yep. You can file application. We'll start that process and look forward. But thank you so much for coming. I don't know if anyone else has any other questions. Thank you so much. Yeah, we'll start for me. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Shimmer. [snorts] All right. Uh next up, uh remote access for board member discussion.

Wants to start it off. I can start it off. I think all of us know that when we ran to be elected officials that we were making a commitment to come to meetings. I mean, everybody knows that. I think I did because a lot of people would say to me, "Boy, you're going to have a lot of meetings." I said, "I know. I like to go to meetings. It's a good thing." So, there's nothing better than one-on-one or all of us getting together for a meeting to have discussions. And I think it's important to be present and not be distracted by wherever else you're going to be.

I think in a perfect world that works fine. In a not so perfect world it doesn't. I mean we we are struggling to have a quorum on several meetings because people have different things, different conflicts. Um to add to this, just to clarify, this isn't unique to Mantino. Um I know the county has it, but Bradley has it under section 2.43. Bourban has it under 2.3 and K or Ki has it under 2.19. So all three of those municipalities are locally have the same ordinance. providing for it. So

in that ordinance, do you still have to have a present quorum? [cough] [clears throat] You have to have a present quorum. Okay. Yeah. So it's just adding in like if so let's say me and you leave or No, I guess we have five of us here. So let's say us three leave, it would be still we wouldn't be able to do it. You'd have to have like a present quorum. That's my understanding. So at least you know what I mean? Like it's not like it's like we're trying to have nobody here at these meetings either. Well, and having more people participate is I don't see how that's a bad thing. Whether it's, you know, I know that that there are people who think that this is the Annette Zimbleman ordinance, but it's not. Who said that?

Yes, it is. Thank you, George. Appreciate it. Well, please be quiet during our meeting, okay? Um, this is for everyone. This is if Mike can't attend, if I can't attend. Todd, you missed two meetings because work takes you out. You want people to be involved. I I don't see why this is a bad thing.

I think it's opening up a can of worms. I I think when we were elected to this board, we were elected to be here at these meetings if all possible. I I'm against it. I I don't think it's right. I do I had a couple Zoom calls with doctors at Mayo Clinic and it goes in and out and you it's it's a some of it's a nightmare.

Well, part of the ordinance is they have to be able to be seen visually. So the the only difference is is there's a visual instead of them sitting next to you. What about in in my instance talking to my doctors and that I was on medication, strong medication, and there was nobody at my house to help write down what I was listening to or whatever. I just I I just find that it, you know, we need to be here at these meetings. And I, you know, I'm really sorry that Annette has to miss miss these meetings, but I think it's important for the residents of our community and that the people that voted for us that we are here at these meetings.

I think we were elected to serve the people and I don't think we should ask the people to allow us to change all the rules because one of us has a something more important to go to. this is a priority coming to these meetings and I think I we're honored that we were elected and sometimes your lifestyle changes and you get involved in other things. Well, maybe that's the time to bow out. Maybe you shouldn't be a trustee if you don't have the time in your sky schedule. Well,

because we're here to serve the people. I don't think I can serve the people if I'm on a computer a 100 miles away because I had something more important to do. Well, mayor, when I was uh when I was out of town for work, and we all work and we all have to work because this this does not support us or our families. Uh you reached out to me a couple of times uh asking where are you at? Why aren't you at the meetings? We couldn't have a quorum. What better way to serve the people by participating? If that would have allowed me and [cough] to participate in our meeting, why would that be wrong? Why would that would actually be limiting board members participation and if I was able to zoom in and obviously Zoom Teams it's all you know everybody's using it now

Fortune 500 Fortune 100 companies do Zoom and Teams meetings federal government and they're they're able to participate. So, if I was able to get in on the meetings that you guys were a part of, which I would have liked to been a part of that meeting, would that be a bad thing? If I was able to contribute and respond through that source of communication, why would that be a bad thing?

We are all replaceable and the public when they have a chance to vote for people, they're going to vote for people that they want to be here. If we're not available, we're not doing our job. But we're not making this an exclusive thing. We're not saying that in lie of being here in person, Todd or Joel or Mike or CJ or Peggy are only going to do remote access meetings in a very limited situation. This would allow us access to be able to participate. How limit of a situation? Because if you watch the Kiki County board meetings, there's two or three representatives that are on there. The one representative fell asleep during the meeting. If you go back from two months ago, he's on the Zoom call and fell asleep.

Well, and that's where obviously we'd have to hold each other accountable. [clears throat] Accountable. My question, if you're if you're going to participate, you can't be in the Zoom meeting sleeping. How long would this these Zoom meetings is this a one-time thing if you're out of town? Because I know in some municipalities if if there's business or they're out of town that it's a one or two time thing. It's not a every meeting, committee meeting, Zoom call in. Well, I know I have to for work I have to travel two or three times a year. Two or three times. If I'm able to participate two or three times a year via Zoom or Teams, is that offending anybody? Is that upsetting you? I want to say something else, too. When I first ran for office and Wait, I asked a question. So, let them respond. Would that upset anybody if

My question would be I think we've all missed two or three meetings. My answer to that would be if you had to miss because of a of of a tournament or school or whatever. Well, the reason I mean if you're able to George, I'm talking and George, you need to leave. Mayor, can you can you control the crowd, please? That's your job. All right, let's just settle down. Todd, give your question and then let them [clears throat] answer it. Yeah. So, if I was able to participate [cough] in a way that, you know, was productive, would anybody be upset with that? My question would be is once again is that what you're I'm let him answer. I

I'm trying to answer your question, Doug. So my question would be or my answer would be is if you've missed five or six meetings and you have no idea what's going on within the village and then you pop up on a Zoom call, how are you going to be able to know what's going on first off? And secondly, I think from day one we've discussed this and Joel was gave me a great idea a year ago for our committee meetings. if I [music] can't make a 7:00 in the morning meeting cuz right now I don't own a business so I'm losing out on money being here. Mhm.

Okay. Cuz I felt so strongly about being here today. I don't get paid [cough] for my time off like most of you guys do. [snorts] So I made it a commitment to be here at 7:00 today. My my question is is why if if why couldn't we have a committee meeting? CJ only has one one [snorts] he's only had one person here or your meeting Todd has only had one person for the last four committee meetings and we can't change a time to 5:00 one day a month. That's my question is is everybody has things going on. Everybody's got a lot of stuff going on now after everything that's happened here in surrounding communities. Everybody's going to be pretty busy. But I find it very odd and I find it very disheartening that you can't pick one day out of the month to have a committee meeting where you could be here at 5:00 or 6:00 in the evening.

Mike, over the course of the last 16 years, I've had a pretty damn [snorts] good attendance record and you can go through I'm not saying [clears throat] I'm not saying by any person's name. All I'm saying is that but wait, you're you're you're bringing it up. It's a valid question and my response to that is go back over the past 16 years and look at my attendance record. Okay. First of all, secondly, this would only allow you or anybody else on the board another means of [snorts] participating. So, like you just said, if you can't make a 7:00 meeting, maybe if you're on a job site, you you can zoom in or teams or whatever we end up doing. Let me ask you a question. If you're an owner of a business, if your foreman doesn't require you, but it would allow you the ability.

Would you let him talk, please? Your foreman or your project manager, you're paying that man to do that to be at work. Correct. you're paying. Hang on. You're not going off into an avenue that has nothing to [snorts] do with this. Mike, to to your to your point though, Mike,

I agree with you that having a board member who hasn't been at four or five meetings who doesn't know what's going on in the village to go in and cast votes is a bad thing. But where I disagree is that allowing someone to zoom in, hopefully they don't miss four or five meetings and they know what's going on in the village. So this way when they cast a vote, it's an educated vote, not a uneducated vote.

And and I'm behind you 100% on that. I mean, I think the question needs to be addressed before this [snorts] is that no one's been told how long a net's going to be gone for. I I don't again this isn't about Annette. I I understand it's not about Annette, but what I'm saying is is that George George

I'm asking you I'm asking you not going to ask again George please. If the remote board meetings are designed for for me to be here or for CJ to be here or for Peggy to be here then that's a different situation. I just think that the question needs to be answered and arised. What's truly going on?

Have you asked that? That's that's a question that you or someone who has concerns needs to ask in that. I've been asked several times and to be honest, it is I I a don't know, b even if I did know, I it's not for me to share someone else's situation. Right. I understand. So if you have a concern as to when Annette's going to be back and by all means we all have each other's phone numbers. Pick up the phone, call each other. So for the remote board access, if [clears throat] this right now today, would there be stipulations in it for how many meetings you could use remote board access? [snorts]

I don't how many meetings you have missed until you're back into knowing what's going on with everything. I mean, if you've been gone a month and a half and you show up for a Zoom meeting, I don't think you should be able to allow to vote on anything. The the ordinance as it's read or as as I read it that was prepared does not stipulate how many meetings you can or cannot participate in. But what it does do is it stipulates what are excusable reasons to miss a meeting. Work related. It can't be because, hey, I just don't feel like showing up today because I don't want to listen to someone yell at me. Sure.

No. Not that's not acceptable if it's because of a work obligation or a health obligation, things that are legitimate reasons to miss a meeting but still uphold, it's there. Now, do I think, and I'll use Annette in this example, do I think she should come in and vote about something she knows nothing about? Absolutely not. I think that as a board member, you're obligated to pay attention to what's going on, pay attention to emails, read emails, communicate with other board members. So, I would hope that none of us would cast a vote in any way, shape, or form without having educated information behind it. And that's all I'm trying to say is I mean, if you've been gone, I mean, like we've been working on this budget now for a month and a half. I don't think, you know, we've all had or we're going to have more discussions about the budget or or things that are going on. This doctor in particular comes in [snorts] and to say this comes to a vote in April.

Yeah. I mean, there's five of us here that listen to what the man had to say. And I think, you know, hopefully Annette, if Annette's in that situation, I mean, she could be back to the meeting on Monday and cast a vote, but hopefully she's paying attention just like when you're not at the meetings that that you can't attend. And I'm hoping that at some point in time you pick up YouTube or pay attention, read the minutes as to what happened. I was going to say that's what I do when I miss a meeting or when I have to go early on these. I'll go watch the rest of the YouTube and then I'll Yeah. The last question is So here's a question for you.

All [snorts] the trustees, you get paid $100 for each meeting you attend. Up to two meetings a month, right? More than that. Two committee meetings and two board meetings. So what if you're remote? Are you going to get paid $100 for not even being here? I would expect so. And here's what I wanted to say earlier. You're participating, right?

Back in 2009 when I was approached [snorts] to run for the village board. The very first thing I did was talk to my family and then I went to my boss. I worked for the post office. And I said, it was Ed Williams. I said, Ed, I'm being asked to run for the village board. How will that how will that affect my job? Will you have a problem with it? And will I be able to go to the seven o'clock morning meetings? He says, 'Annette, I want you to run. Yes, you can take your break at 7 o'clock and go [snorts] to the meetings. As long as you get your mail delivered, I'm okay with it. It was important to me to know that I had access that I could come to the meetings. What good is a trustee who can't come to the meetings? So, anybody who wants to run for the board, you have to know this. Personal situation.

I'm explaining something because I've had a lot of experience going to meet. Situation is the same. Don't run for the village board. This is allowing us to participate. I don't see what is wrong with us being able to participate. It's not taking the place of something. It's just providing another avenue to participate. And if the voters don't think that it's good, they'll vote you out. Like the voters will if if no one shows a meeting, you think that person is going to be elected again. That's what the voters are for. The voters decided who they want or not. Your situation was a 9 to5 job,

right? It's a way to participate. can't predict [clears throat] when snow's going to fall and his boss can't say, "Oh, yeah, you can be at that meeting cuz I want you there." Just like I can't predict when a tornado hits and my customers need me. So, your situation was a 9 to5. It was it was an easy thing for your boss to say yes. But it's not so easy for Mike or myself or Todd who run a different sort of situation. I mean, we're predicated on customers needs. So I think we keep forgetting who we're serving here. We're serving the people of Mantino. Absolutely. Another participation is serving them.

I I haven't had anyone complain to me about not being present enough. So I don't like that this this complaint of you're not showing up. I my emails are open. Like I I have it's not like I have a hundred emails backed up or people lined up to meet with me either. So I don't I think this over participation is only maybe for a certain group of people and that doesn't affect the most the town that wants us present in some capacity at the meetings which they can watch. But that's maybe just my personal opinion on that. How many meetings are we um obligated to attend? I mean is there a certain amount as being a trustee?

No. So if we decide say I decided I'm not coming to five or six seven meetings there's no repercussions you just can't vote on those meetings like whatever topics come up if you can't vote so you lose that voting power so we're being I think we're being um I don't know we're not upholding our position it's my opinion And I just I I think we were elected to be here and we should be here. Well, first of all, Peggy, I personally am not here because I have to be here. I'm not here because I have to be.

I'm here because I want to be here, right? And if the situation [cough] dictates to where I can't be here because I'm traveling for work is mainly the only reason, I would still like the opportunity to be able to participate whether it's through Zoom or Teams or another s source of uh of that type of communication because I want to be present. I want to be part of the process, right? So again, I just don't see why this would be I just don't think Zoom in certain instances I just don't think it's the same is being here. It's not the end all be all in in this building. No, you know,

but if I'm in another state and it allows me to be a part of what you guys are doing, I'd like to be a part of that. It's not the It's not the same. It's, you know, I'd personally rather be in person, but it beats it beats nonparticipation. If if the choice is you can't participate or find an alternative method and it's available, I don't see why we wouldn't allow for that. I don't want to encourage everyone to participate via Zoom. Well, my question is is is why wouldn't Annette bring this to our attention? Again, I don't think this is but if Annette wanted to be present, wouldn't she bring it up that she wants to have Zoom or or Teams calls? [snorts]

Mike, again, I don't think this this is not stem. My question is is that no one's seen an email. So, you ask a question, but then you don't want an answer. This isn't only stemming from Annette Zimbleman. Okay. The mayor reached out to me on several occasions asking Todd, why are you [cough] and my answer to that was, Annette, sometimes work takes me away from being able to be here. Okay. Joel, same situation. Okay, this isn't only an Annette Zimbleman thing. So, let's make that very clear right now. Okay, but if you're at say you're in in out of town,

so what's saying that you can make that 7:00 Zoom meeting? Nothing. Okay, there you go. But it's an option. It's just another option, another form of a potential option for me to participate with what you guys are doing. You know, like this meeting 7 o'clock

doesn't necessarily mean like I said, it's not the end to be at work at 6:00. So, I miss work because I'm here at the seven o'clock, which is more important to me and that in a couple of the meetings that I couldn't be here, I had to be at work in that. But at that particular time at 7:00, I cannot get on a computer and be in a Zoom meeting. Correct. Same with me. Like when I have to leave here in like 5 minutes, I can't. But but they have the option. Again, our lives dictate that we can't do it, but they have the option.

All right. We're not going to get through our agenda. I think we need to move on. It's on It's on the agenda for the finance committee, right? It's on that agenda, too. We can talk more about we can continue it then. Uh we'll just skip general discussion now. That way we have it also in the uh properties and recreation. That way this meeting can end. Uh I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor? I CJ. Okay. Um, first item is approval of property Rex minutes from February 18th. Any changes, corrections, deletions? If not, I'd accept a motion to approve them. I'll make that motion.

Second. Anyone? I wasn't here, so I can't approve it. Who else was here? Peggy. Okay. Second. All in favor?

I Okay. Uh, public participation. We already had that. Um, just I I want to address a couple things that were asked during public participation real quick. Um yes, a trustee any trustee can request anything to be put on the agenda. So at any time that that's part of our elected official position of what we can and cannot do. Um we can also reach out to our village attorney because the village attorney represents not only the mayor and the village but each and every trustee. Um, other than that, um, as far as why is it not on the meeting at 5:00 PM, it is the agenda. I saw it yesterday in an email. It is scheduled to be on the agenda next Monday to be discussed again before it. So, um, I'm sorry, you had a question.

What was the does it cost you to talk to the lawyer? every time that someone calls or or emails it, there's a cost associated with the attorney. I would like to just jump in here and say that out of just common courtesy, I think it would be best if you contacted me, the mayor, first and then I would have talked to the lawyer about it because you're causing more expenses for the village and I don't even know what you're doing. Well, and I think that that communication's a two-way street. I'm supposed to call you and ask you if you have something you want to put on the agenda um that we haven't discussed. Um I I No, what I'm saying is there are many things that you don't reach out to the trustees to communicate with us. Really? Yes.

I thought I was doing a very good job of that because we discuss everything when we're together at meetings. So there was an executive order yesterday, right? I I didn't get a phone call about about the that order that Did anyone else get a call? Nope. I haven't had any communication at all. And mayor, all due respect, I want us to succeed. We have to work together. So, so communication. I think this lesson learned. All of us need to communicate together better. We can save a lot of money on lawyer fees if you call me first. Agreed. I mean, I I

And don't put anything on the agenda to vote on that we haven't even discussed yet, Joel. Well, I I have that right to and I'm not saying I will and we'll work on communication, but my ask of you is if I'm going to work on communication, I'm going to ask you to do the same because we we opposed organization of our of our staff of Village Hall, but that never came to the board. And that's something that I think communication should have been before we made that decision. Who opposed that? Yeah. What's that? What are you talking about? The attorney opposed it. Elizabeth. No. No.

The attorney wrote a letter and said that we can oppose it if if you would like us to proceed, but we're likely to not win that case. Well, the and they got instructions. Elizabeth Blood called me and told me what legally was going to happen. I didn't She didn't ask me, "Do [cough] you want me to oppose [clears throat] this or do you want me to go with it?" She said, "This is what should happen." I believe the emails that I saw required an instruction from you to tell them to oppose it because right now we're wasting a lot of money and next week we've got a hearing that that half of our village hall is going to be out of office for and we're paying attorneys to do testimony that isn't on the agenda for today. It isn't change it.

That's weird. It it does fall under general discussion though and and it can be brought up at any time. And last time I checked, Mike, this is my committee meeting. Thank you. And Annette, I'll go back to putting things on the agenda at the at the last minute that haven't been discussed, like the short-term rentals that you threw on the agenda that nobody had any discussion. I threw it on and I sent you an email asking Annette, what do you want to change with this ordinance and why? Never got one response from you regarding that. H I I never even started that. That was all Joel. Okay. On to the next. I sent you an email that you you couldn't politely respond to.

Okay. And we're going to move on to the next one for matter of time. MEP quotes for the pavilion at square on second. Uh yep. In the pro the handout provided. We've got uh several quotes from electric mechanical and plumbing. Uh [snorts] KPI ended up being $1,100 cheaper for supplying the electrical connection and uh running all the electrical all the lights, making the connections for the uh mini split, running a uh a drop from the uh comet pole for the for the meter. [clears throat] Um,

Glatty [clears throat] was the cheapest between the two of uh between Hulahan and Glatty for the HVAC and the plumbing and it being almost $4,500 cheaper. That includes um installing a mini split, multiple heads for AC and heat for the building. Uh making all the uh water and sewer connections, running all the pipe, PVC, and copper, and then connecting and installing all the sinks and toilets fixtures.

Any questions? How many bids do we have total on um two different uh well two electricians and two HVAC plumbing? That's all the bid out. We posted it and went I I reached out to these companies. Okay. [snorts] Um any questions? Yeah. Can you repeat what you asked? Asked if we went out for bid for it. If we got multiple bids. Are we required to put this out for bid? Uh it just has to be a board approved. [snorts] Jim, I have a question here regarding Glades uh proposal. Yep. Um so they're they're allowing up to a 75 foot tie-in. Correct. Correct. Um based on what you've seen, does that seem reasonable? That's going to be real close.

Um I also see that they have all excavation backfill cut patch matched by others, [snorts] meaning that they're not going to backfill their trench. That's fine. Yeah, we'll be doing the back filling on that. Okay. Um, obviously they're not going to haul away any excess spoils or Correct. That'll be all on site stuff that we'll take care of. Gotcha. Okay, that was it. Okay. What is the total? Do we have kind of a guesstimate? What is the total we're at right now with that building? I don't have the rest of the numbers in front of me here, but uh [clears throat] the uh the cost of the building we already approved for,

right? I know that. Um concrete. We just uh poured the footing foundation. Well, we just got the invoices for [clears throat] that. Uh we'll have an invoice for rental for concrete forms. So, I can generate what we're at today. Okay. But I can send that out. We appreciate it. Thank you.

I kind of did a little looking into it and what we paid for the uh the park pavilion, which is half the size of this pavilion. Um just kind of going through it quickly yesterday, just the concrete uh concrete work and the um framing and building of the structure, no mechanical anything else was almost $100,000 what we paid for. So um just the cost savings that the village is providing with the public works doing it. I wouldn't say it would be double, but at least one and a half times. So, you know, cost savings of over 150,000 would I have to guesstimate what, you know, hiring out a GC and hiring out contractors to perform the rest of the work.

Jim, I'm sorry. I got another question here. Maybe I'm just not seeing it here, but on Glades proposal, where is their actual price? I see the [cough and clears throat] price for the mini split back page. I only have one sheet. Uh there's nothing on the back side. Oh, it didn't copy. I apologize. Um yeah, the uh lady's total amount was $49,410. 49 what?

49,410 and then with an additional $1,000 for water and sanitary, $6,000 for uh interior ex uh excavation and 2 thou 2500, I'm sorry, for installation allowance. So their total I apologize I thought I copy both sides 58,910 and if you see and that incl Yes 58910 that includes the mini split that includes the mini split installation as well and then hulahan was 63,399. Okay I see they have 75 ft included whereas lady only had 50 feet.

Yeah. And so there's a little difference in in footage. That'd be a charge. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Hendrickson Park request. We had an email or a phone call. Uh someone looking into maybe seeing if there's any interest in adding any more skate equipment over at Hendrickson. Just want to make sure we pass it along to the board. Um we've every few years we get somebody that's gets excited about skateboarding. They ask about it and we've looked into it. I mean, it's it's not cheap just like everything else.

That seems like that when we first put it up, it was used a lot and now it seems like it's died down. Like [snorts] I don't see a lot of use out there. Yeah. Most of the use I think sometimes is uh graffiti. I guess we got go out there and paint over on occasion. [snorts] I think maybe we could push this off till after we get our budget conversations discussed a little further. Yeah. I mean, in my opinion, I would say playgrounds are would be a little more top of the list for replacement or added more than this right now.

Okay. I just want to say um [cough and clears throat] the parks and that have been toured uh looked at all the equipment and everything and I'll have a report for us for everybody to look at uh at the next meeting and at on the uh the status of the how the equipment has been wearing and what's with it and that. So everybody be able to see Okay. And then so the parks have all been walked through and looked at. Who who looked at them? I did. Oh, okay. Okay.

And uh so I'll give a give a report on it. Sounds good. We'll put it on next. Are you going to put on your public safety meeting? I can do that. All right. Yep. Um could you put that So do we have to approve these or what are we going to do with these two bits or to get this thing moving along? Go on. It has to be put on the agenda for Monday. Yes. Yes. What's the report? No, no, the the quote. We can't we can't take action on on stuff here. It has to happen on Monday's meeting. So, we'd be using KPI and the two lowest bids. So, that'll be on Monday. Wasn't a third option or anything. I ain't got a third.

No. Um, last we can uh just the timets. I got the blueprint within the last month and a half and was able to get a hold of these couple companies um just to kind of keep the prog progress of the project going. Last things general disc what's it?

Yeah, just in the back of the handout last couple pages just another thing just I started just looking into some stuff for the pavilion at the square. Um, we were talking about furniture and maybe not, you know, uh, park uh, park benches or whatever, picnic tables, but just kind of coming up with a couple ideas or kind of put some price tags together. Um, you want to take a look through, point me in the right direction. Is it something we want to look into whether the colors and the product?

I guess my question regarding any furniture would be the the long-term intent. Would that be to have something that is movable on, you know, at the spur of the moment or would we want to look at something that's more permanently affixed to the concrete? Um, is there going to be the need to move a space open for another activity? Or my personal opinion, I'd rather see us do the table and chairs that's movable in case we want to have a, you know, the band if we've got a band or something going on there that they could clear that out. And I think it would be a little nicer.

Would it be an issue though of like yesterday's storm rolling through and blowing it around the the park or I mean yesterday's yesterday's storm's uh I don't I don't know what I mean blown the pavilion around the park. There there were houses that were that were moved. So I don't know that we can solve that problem. But it looks it appears Jim correct me. It's substantially cheaper to go the table and chairs route than it is to do the permanent like picnic table style just from looking at what I've got here. Yeah,

we're talking about a difference of, you know, maybe $1,100 for a table and chair set versus $3,700 for the plastic stuff or $1,800 for a picnic table. Yeah, there's quite a there's a big stretch in prices for sure. Um, even like that last page, it looks like it might be like a heavier product and I think the picture is kind of squished down, but I think it's a normal height, you know. So, yeah. I mean, that allows for a little [clears throat] bit more usability and flexibility for people when they're there as well. like they have a big group. You could put a long table together, put a couple together, but um then if you wanted to store it in the winter, you could store it if you wanted.

We can. Yeah, we could put it away as well. You know, I'd like to see something maybe a little heavier like you're saying, maybe for that wind, you know, sticks around and makes it a little less easy for kids to bring it in spaces they're not supposed to. But And these are the ones too that have the umbrellas. Are you as I'm looking at this? Yeah, we could. This will be underneath the pavilion. Oh, okay. you're talking about. But if we wanted to add this over at under the pavilion, I don't think it should be my opinion. I don't think it should be permanent. Should be able to move around. That's what I that's what I think the table and chairs and I think that's kind of what down. Yeah. Yeah. I could even see in that heroes hot rods, [snorts] they're looking forward to possibly using some of the space. So, I mean, yeah, right away would be

possibly moving it out of the way. So, okay. I think that second option, I don't know if that's all steel or aluminum or what that is, but that almost looks a little too light. Yeah, probably. You know, I didn't get any weights on stuff. I I would say that that first picture, the green, and there's a bunch of colors. Um I can send out the it's Barco products. We've bought stuff from them in the past. It's it's heavy duty municipal works commercial outdoor stuff. And even the last page, I think that's like a I'll call it a composite product. And it's probably also uh you know a little heavier that [clears throat] one that's $2,200. Correct. Yeah. I mean that that looks really How many you thinking were needed on this?

You know what? I think six. I think I kind of have to lay it out and just see how many we can get underneath there. But so which one's going to be less susceptible somebody carving their name in it. That's all up for it could be damaged. They'll figure out a way, you know. Yeah. Right. We got a little time on this, but just look at the table and chairs stuff I think especially for under the pavilion and then get get us a little bit of weight and pricing and then we can discuss that. I mean if even adding to a couple of the spots over there on the north side by the jumping pillow as opposed to the wooden picnic tables that we we talked about doing something there too because those

don't look all that great. they've they haven't worn well. And um okay, on to the the lasting general discussion. The mayor and I talked before the meeting and wanted to bring it up to the whole board um just to kind of have a heads up about the storm and public works. And Jim, do you want to kind of tell us about your mutual aid, how it's set up with other communities and if you're called upon kind of how that works? Um, it's the Illinois public works mutual aid network. It's set up just like Mabis and I think was police.

So, um, actually Illinois is shockingly in the forefront of this kind of thing. Uh, not a lot of the states have anything close to it. So, um, and I usually go to the meeting once or twice a year. Uh it's set up to where other public works agencies if they have a storm they can contact IPWMA and and uh put out a call and say hey we need chipper trucks or backhoe or uh boom truck or whatever to help facil facilitate a uh storm cleanup. I haven't heard anything from Aroma Park or Staint Anne yet. I reached out to um Terry Nikka at Burbanet. Um, so I'm going to be putting a call out to the mayor of uh Aroma Park there and see.

Didn't you hear from the is it the police chief that last night we sent three officers to Aroma Parkre to help cuz they they obviously south of us took a bigger blunt to the storm than we did. So there three officers there [snorts] helping. And aren't they having a meeting at 8:00 this morning? Yeah. Um, so we don't know what they need and they haven't called and reached out to us, but if they do, we're we're in this agreement mutual aid to help them and be good neighbors cuz you never know when our turn will be to be on the bad side of it, right? So, they were they went to they went to last night. Last night cuz how'd you hear about that?

I just heard it this morning when we were before the meeting. We got a text message from Chief Swinford last night. I think it went to me, uh, Peggy, the mayor. I think I got it also. And Jim. Yep. Yeah, there was the four of us, which that's that's customary for fire departments, police departments, public works is kind of a unique deal that we entered into that agreement, but yeah, it it makes sense we help one another out. So, I'm not sure if Roman Park is in this mutual aid network or not, but I would say if we do get a phone call, I get permission to send a couple guys if needed or piece of equipment, whatever they want.

We should definitely do that. We need to help them. I think it's a good thing to be good neighbors, right? And Potones helped us out uh years back. Bourbon's come out and helped us. We've sent guys to uh Grant Park. We've sent guys to like Crystal Lake way back like Fox River Valley there. So it uh that's kind of thing that goes around comes around. So is it so it's statewide not just countywide?

It's there's a statewide pro program. Correct. Yeah. [clears throat] It's pretty I mean unique to public works. You don't hear like I think I looked into it like a year or two ago when North Carolina was having the hurricane issues and I was seeing if North Carolina had any things set up and they really didn't. So, um, and it works out to where if we do send guys for more than multiple days and, uh, FEMA gets involved, the the village could actually get, uh, recoup costs from the state and then federal then if needed. So, I imagine there's a lot of trees down that they need help getting those. So, I'll reach out.

Just curiosity, are those any of those costs, are they reimbursable? like uh let's say we spend two weeks of time out in wherever. Are those costs reimburseable back to the village or is it Yeah, we we

it's uh there there's a timetable especially with u with FEMA depends on how many more how many days beyond um I think the IPM uh we're to help out another ne a community for three days with no charge like we that's kind of like the open agreement for all you know uh town towns and villages cities that we would provide help to any other town for 3 days if you can. It's not like, you know, you have to be there and we have to do it. If we're cleaning up our storm, we can't make it. Okay. After 3 days, then yeah, if uh especially if it escalates into either Illinois FEMA or federal FEMA, then um yeah, they you can uh put a cost associated to it and they can pay back.

Okay. Anything else? I don't have anything else. Motion to adjurnn. Motion by Crockett. Second by Second Von. All in favor? I