Planning & Zoning / Properties & Recreation Committees - Regular Meeting

Uh, I will open this planning and zoning meeting here on Wednesday, January 14th at 7 a.m. Um, could I have someone or is there any questions at all about the planning zoning meeting minutes from last time, December 8th? If not, can I have a motion to approve that? I'll make a motion. Motion by Rocket, second by Von. All in favor? I I We're going to save Valerie for later on. Uh it doesn't look like True Golf is here.

No, they they turned in an application. Um so we have all their information. He's looking for a liquor license for the the golf simulator business he has out there. I believe when he came in before, he's talked to the board about that. Um he would prefer that it has gaming allowed with it. Again, we talked to Joe Kankar. we can't issue liquor licenses that restrict gaming. Um he said he would take it either way right now. He doesn't have any immediate plans for gaming, but would like to bring in some machines at some point. So he's asking the board for the liquor license and to allow gaming. Go ahead. Joe said that we can issue liquor licenses restricting gaming.

Yes, we can. Okay. feel like that's been kind of our least mode right now is that we're not looking to add any more gaming at this time. Right. Again, that's I know it's a new business, but yeah. And he's he's fine either way. I talked to him on the phone about it and he said that's fine either way. Still would take the liquor license even if it restricts the gaming for now. Again, how many gaming businesses do we have right now? I think we have 11 in town and about 75 machines. I I've been in favor of allowing the liquor license without the gaming. Just so this way make sure it's a viable business first. If if they're only opening it for the gaming, do we really want that?

Correct. I think that's something we talked about last year, but that's I mean I agree. Let's give them the I I'm fine with the liquor license, too. I think I maybe we can revisit at one point, but at this point I don't feel like we need any more gaming in this town. we already have. I don't think we want every establishment to have gaming, right? I don't either. And right now, what is the average amount of money that's spent on our in our machines per month? Uh I think it it varies somewhere between uh three and $5 million a month. That's a lot of money. I've been in towns where, you know, every single building has a neon sign gaming game. It just looks Yeah, that's not what they want. Go to Vegas, right? I mean,

we don't want Las Vegas here. But does anyone uh have any issues with issuing them the liquor license? I will just say I know at some point in time they'll be here begging for a gaming license because they can't survive without it. Well then to me that's not a viable business unfortunately. And I think in this case at least from what he's told me his simulator business is going well but you know he's got to go through a summer too which obviously I would assume his business will drop off in the summer somewhere. I've been there a couple times. It's it's a good business. Golf team goes there a bunch. So, like I know it's it's set up very well, so I think they will do well. But there's a Monday Night Ladies league that's using it right now, too. Yeah. See, that's what I'm saying. So, yeah, I'm good. I think we're good with then. I don't know if they put on the agenda or

year, two years down the road, whatever. They want a gaming license and they've proven that they're going to be around. It's not just success, then we can think about discussion. But, all right. Um, Ace and Vine Liquor License. I think they're here. If you guys want to come up, you can talk to us at all and then Good morning. Could you say your name? Tahoe and Afraim.

So, we are here requesting a liquor license for our wine bar business. Uh, we plan to have some food with it, too. It's going to be on 380 North Locust Street by uh Mayberries. Uh we got 12 different locations. So in Will County, uh New Lanics, uh Frankfurt and Mokina and uh we're hoping to have one here in in Martina.

Where are you at in Frankfurt Mokina? Uh, Mokina, it's on uh Wolf Road in Route 30. We're just building up right now on uh across from uh J C Penney right there. Across from Penis. Okay. Uh in the Frankfurt, it's on Harlem and uh Fulmer Road. Of all your businesses, does everyone have gaming? Yes. But you think you can make it here with liquor license or would you not want it if you can't have gaming? Gaming helps pay bills. You know,

we've had a pretty strong stance of we're not adding any more gaming at this time. Right now, we want businesses to be viable without the gaming aspect. And then like we just said, after maybe a couple years, then you can come back and ask us. But I feel like this board at this time does not want to add gaming. So, if you're okay with just a liquor license with a wine bar, that's I think something that we would definitely be open with. How about if we give him a six month, see how his business is going? That's what I'm saying. Six to a year. Yeah. After a year and then we'll think about, you know, adding the gaming to it or

Well, the problem there is the rent is very high at this location, you know, so it will make sense to have it everything the same at the same time. I think the rent is high everywhere. Yes, that's true. Yes. The problem is is I think that location we've had told two or three other people too that you know no to having a gaming license too. So be fair, how do we tell Topgolf who's already here that you could have a liquor license but no gaming but bring in someone else who isn't here.

I'd be I'd be fine. just before um the golf place didn't they I don't know are they are they the same people question yes we came here uh uh maybe 3 four months ago but uh we're uh thought that we were not represented right from the person we sent here and that's why we requested at that time to have a table you know the reason we're concerned about getting out

I'd like to see a bill the reason we're concerned concerned about giving out so many uh licenses for gaming or allowing it is because we're still a small town. We have about around 9,300 people and we're already taking in3 to5 million dollar a month. I mean that does affect families the amount of money that goes into gaming. Sometimes people aren't able to pay their bills because of their addictions. Not that we're in charge of people, you know, we're not the moral police here, but Mantino does has have 75 machines, and we feel that's pretty uh adequate for the amount of people that live here. Am I wrong?

I'm I'm 100% in favor of giving a liquor license without gaming. But if we gave a gaming license to everybody who wants it, that whole town would be like Reno. Yes, sir. We know that. because it does make money. But if your business is good, if your food is good as well as it looks on this paper. Yes. To me, is the building going to look like this on the inside? It's going to mirror this. Yes. Exactly like that. Okay. Our last five places, it's been just like that. If your business is managed right and the food is great and stuff, I I don't see a reason why you wouldn't survive in Mantino. to my knowledge. You're going to be the first wine buyer in Mantino.

Yeah. I I think you'll do good here. You know, and then we can go down the road with the with the gaming. Thank you. Yes. Well, our gaming will be a whole separate room separated and everything, you know. I mean, that's that's a lot of places that do that. That's not our issue isn't like that. It's not Yes. It's not not covered up. I think our issue is just again we just we don't want to have that many places that have it.

Um and we've kind of restricted it. So again we are open to definitely with the liquor license and having you guys open restaurant. Again we you'd be like a unique place in Mantino. We we just we are not going to give the gaming license right now without you proving again a year at least six months a year that you can do this without gaming to a point because again if we do it to you we will have 15 people calling Chris tomorrow saying add us the list liquor store that have been correct yes they'll be back yeah liquor store we we've denied liquor stores already this past year too yeah beastro so and they're thriving correct

and they seem to be doing okay I think with what I'm seeing right here in in the look of this, I think it's something that Mantino could use. And I think I I've had restaurants and I know it's a tough business. Yes. But I think, you know, this would go over really hot here. Uh, can we talk with our landlord again on terms of the rent and come back to different date about this if we can work something out? You sure can. Perfect. That'll be best. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for all this nice information. It's

It looks beautiful. All right. We're going to talk about temporary science, but I'll let uh Valerie Wacker if you want to come up from Liquid Books first and then we'll get into it.

Thank you. So, I am Adam Weer's mom. You know, he has liquid books over by Mayberries. And um he's been dreaming of this business for a long time. And we're just hoping that you lift the ordinance of the temporary signs because for small businesses, especially newer businesses, every avenue of advertising is essential to bring customers in uh to make the business grow, make it successful. So being able to post signs of what we do, what what we have, the b, you know, the the um services we offer, and also sales for people to see it from the, you know, at the street can come in and bring us more business and more customer footwear. And uh so we're really hoping that, you know, you lift lift the ordinance and let us have a sign out there when we need it. And uh we really appreciate your time.

So you're talking about a temporary sign that will sit will sit sit Yeah. Like by the edge of the parking lot like Yeah. like by the corner of the lot, you know, like that. So just, you know, sale going on today, you know, and services. Currently, what is it? Our our ordinance says, the current ordinance allows for temporary signage, one temporary sign per business uh for 30 days at a time. Then they have to take it down and they can't have anything for 30 days. So essentially 30 days on 30 days off,

right? Which which really because when we came we had a sign and that really helped once it was gone. Business dropped big time. So, you know, we try every other avenue and you know, and we are getting a little more footwear, you know, just from other avenues of, you know, uh the chamber of commerce and stuff like that, but you know, it it truly truly helps to have those extra signs out there. Did you go and apply for a 30-day after 30 days of the sign being down, did you get another put up another temporary sign? We have not yet put up another one. we had snow and stuff so we we did not you know um

because that that sign if you have if you put up a sign out in the yard out in the corner there and it never comes down it's there's no change doesn't it doesn't draw anyone's attention it becomes just a normal thing that you draw right but we're not going to do that we're we're going to change it change it like one corner over there another corner over there change what the sign says all the time stuff like that you you know, to put it out there for sales. Something else that we have to think about that. You just have to you just have to rotate it every 30 days. 30 days on, 30 days off. You're asking for a permanent sign. Well, well, no, we're we're asking to be able to put

permanent sign that you move that that we move around different spots so people can, you know, catch it. Different people, different places. How many businesses are in that is are in that facility there? Do we have one of those? You know, the green that we put stuff on to advertise different things for us and tell them, do we have anything like that over there? So, our wayfinder signs I Yeah, whatever. Is there anything that would look nice like that that you know for all the businesses that are on that section in that little area? Is there anything we could do like that to make it look, you know, to match whatever, you know, that we have? I'm not sure that follow what you're at sign out there by the road.

Yeah. Is that is that what they're called? Wfinders. Wayfinders are all over like signs everywhere and they'll say McDonald's this way. But they pay for that rent it from the chamber. That though I don't know is as visible. I don't think that would be as visible. If I'm driving by, I'm not going to be able to kind of Well, I guess no. I can't see a wayfinder sign. Well, yeah, you can see them all over. They're actually Would it be something? They're directional to get people to businesses. Like if you come off the expressway, but you see the sign in the arrow, but they can't see what you do, you know? They just going to say the name of the business not going to tell you like you want that stuff, right? You know, is there any way like

I get the concern of we don't want just the same temp sign all the time. And you said you're going to move them. Is there any way or language we could look at of like every 30 days you have to put a new sign out where at least it's rotating? But think about what that looks like, CJ. If and I don't know the exact number, but that strip mall is there four or five different businesses. There's four. There's three. So now all four of them are going to have signs, right? And then you're gonna get them over at O'Reilly's across the street and you're going to get it at Casey's. And creative.

We created that sign ordinance honestly to prevent things like, you know, mattresses for $3.99 lined up with yard signs at our exit ramps cuz that'll happen. And the gas stations had tons of uh temporary signs that they had all over the pumps and out in front of the business. And that's why we created this temporary sign ordinance. This this ordinance though does keep it to the only on their property, right? They can't like go put it up all throughout Mantino. Correct. Okay. Fine. Which

honestly, if you think about like over by Mayberry, their property would actually stop at the parking lot, right? Because that the grass out there by the sidewalk is right away. So couldn't put something out there. Have you talked to Mayberry at all? like adding underneath them like a sign like you know what I mean like the Mayberry sign obviously you can see it when you're driving by like something like bigger that way

speaking of Mayberries they want to add a sign themsself that is for daily specials and I just actually informed them that they would be hindered to this same temporary sign thing where they would have to be restricted to this. They would have to take that sign down every 30 days as well. it would screw them as well. It's I don't think we want our Route 50 corridor to be filled with 35 signs all the time, but you do have a tall sign out there by the edge of the road where you do have liquid books up there, right? Maybe we could change out that sign periodically to grab attention.

Well, we have signs that we are looking to change out. We just haven't with the weather haven't been able to change those out. But it's being so far back, like I said before, um people still won't be able to see what we offer and the whole 30 days on, 30 days off is still kind of like a hindrance and it just does not make any viable sense. in the first 60 days to six months of a small business is crucial and that's the biggest thing that needs to happen.

Almost you almost need like a sign like like Monles has where you can put letters. I mean some signs have that or something like that. You know what I mean? Like that's not a temporary sign. Don't want to spend the money on an LED sign that you could change it easily. Well, that's what I'm saying. talking about like route 50 LED or like get McDonald or Monles they they can put like letters in and stuff like I don't know how much that cost but then that's not a temporary sign you that's a thousand that's $1,000 and that's per your guys's thing also a temporary sign. My my experience with business signs don't make or break you. I mean, it just they help. They help they they help. They're a necessary evil, but they're not going to they

they're not going to make your business be viable or not viable. I mean, they help. Every little bit helps. They help bring people in. I'm still thinking that the big sign that's out there is the most visible one and it advertises more than just your shop. There's, I think, six or eight slots there, right? Yeah, the big sign out by the road. Right. Right. I was gonna say I'll be honest. I've I drive that frequently. I don't think I've ever seen any other sign in the than the Mayberry sign. So, I don't know if you you've already had temp signs out there. I mean, I'm saying I miss that was in the, you know, beginning.

Correct. But I'm saying I've missed them. And I drive that road daily. I've never even seen that temp sign. Like I I see the big one, but I don't see like on the ground. So, I don't know how many eyeballs are even seeing those temp signs anyway on the ground. Yeah. We've only had 30 days of the temp because well, we've only ran it in I think October. November we was our off day. December would have been our month to redo the submission, but that was weather, snow,

cold. So, it was like risk either damaging the sign, so on so forth. It wasn't worth it to us. Didn't we also talk about a banner like maybe across the front of the building? And we do have a banner, but it again we're kind of far back from the street. So, I mean, I think some people might notice the banner, but not as much as something close to the street. Yeah. on the ground. Like

what I was saying to the mayor before on each end of the parking lot, getting catching one eye of the parking lot and then seeing the other end would catch more visibility than just having one sign out there and being car level. That's better than being what 12 feet up in the air. But that 12 feet up in the air really gets a lot of visual effect from far away. People see that when down the highway

and I get I don't know the price of it. So that's my but putting another sign like you're saying like instead of a temp sign putting a more permanent sign also on that side to promote like cuz I really only see Mayberries and you guys are on there but it's smaller almost for like you and the other new businesses on the other side having that thing there too. That way it's I don't know. I I get what you're saying because you want to like promote the sales and stuff like that, but we aren't currently allowing though any other restaurant or business in town to do that. And they seem to be doing okay for what we see. So, it's hard to then they have never asked for it, I should say. And I get I know you're new, but we've had new businesses come in and they still haven't asked for that with it. I think again, you just keep up with your promotion, word of mouth. You guys have came here, that's getting out. The chamber's now pushing stuff out. we can push stuff out and like again promoting businesses, but I don't know if like a temp sign is something that we're that open to other than just how we have it now because we don't want what we've had in the past it sounds like of a lot of sign and actually now that you said that Todd I remember now gas stations having a crazy amount of signs and that looked kind of bad but that was a gas station not obviously your business

Chris do you have something to add to this and you know the existing sign that they think is up pretty high is can they add to that? Yeah. So, this this actually came about uh and I think we did it back in 2016. And the reason was it was actually that very building on the south end of that building is a very large section with no windows or doors in it. And the renter in that space started putting up banners and they absolutely filled that entire section of the building with banners and it was an auto parts type custom parts type business. Um, and that's when several of the board members said, "That really looks tacky." And some of them after a while started getting tattered and blowing around. And so then they started looking at it and Taylor Ford had a had at a one of those arrow boards that a lot of the businesses used to use. It was in horrible shape. I mean, we just started really looking around and saying a lot of these signs really look bad. So that's when they came up with the idea of 30 days on, 30 days off. They still let them have the temporary signs, but you just can't have them all the time. And then that way too, it keeps them a little fresher and keeps them from really looking kind of tacky. So that's the history of it.

So every 30 days when they come and ask for a permit. Is there a fee for that? No, it's free. They just have to fill out the form. We give them the dates that that they can start it, the dates that it stops, and then the date they can come and apply again for another one. They just have to turn in that permit every time. Would the board be interested in shortening that space between instead of making him wait a month, shorten it to one or two weeks? I wouldn't be interested.

Or would we be open to like letting them have the sign for two months? Like are we worried about damage in two? You know, I mean, I get what you're saying like winter time you're probably not going to have a temp sign anyway because the weather's going to ruin it anyway. So, it's more like you need it during spring and summer and fall to kind of do that. That way, it's a little bit less time off than for you. What's that? because I don't want to hurt your business, but also again, we just don't want to start a trend of signs that look horrible around town. It's not going to make us look as good as we could. Um, overall, Jacob, what are some of the other successful businesses in Mantino doing that don't rely on temporary signs?

Uh, I mean, I know social media is huge and you guys are on there and doing a great job. Uh, a chamber perk, I know it's kind of off topic from a village meeting, but you guys can put in an LED sign request for the chamber. So, we've got our sign next to McDonald's. So during those off months when you guys aren't able to have a temporary sign next to your location, you can maybe utilize that resource and uh those signs or those advertisements I should say uh stay up for two weeks at a time and you have one submission per month for the chamber. So you can definitely take advantage of that I think especially during the off months of not having the temporary sign in front of your business. So there's other options besides a temporary sign.

Yeah. So I would just have to basically do kind of like a logo with an address and but that still is what on the other side of town they have to figure out where we are in town compared to where the McDonald's is. Yeah. Which I mean I think you guys have done a great job branding yourself I think visually and on social media. So I don't really think that'd be a problem. But you can talk with Kathleen and I more about this topic specifically and we can work with you on some uh creative marketing ways for that for our LED sign. Thank you. Okay. You're welcome. Does that help a little bit? Would help a little bit. So, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you. All right. Uh then finally, fourth quarter recaps.

Okay. Yep. in your packet. Um, got the fourth quarter from last year, uh, commercial development recap, uh, Kerwick's building at section Line Road. Still no tenant information on that. I see they've been in there working again, so I'm not sure if something's changed, but I've not heard of him leasing it out yet at this point. Domino's Pizza is operational. The other side, uh, still don't have any information on a tenant yet, and I see they're not in there working. So 63 North Maine, the former Copeland's have not heard anything on that from even the gentleman we met with. We've not heard back from him. So I don't have anything on that. Carile's building at 5 South Main, you see the uh construction is still going on there. He's remodeling the second floor to expand his offices up to that second floor and Riverside parking lot.

Quick quick question. And I know he was renting that uh space above him. So, is that going to that's all going to be Carlile office space? That'll all be commercial now. Y apartments up there. Yep. And then the Riverside parking lot. Obviously, the weather is kind of stopped that, but they've got the majority of the work done. They still, I think, have to do the uh the drainage uh pond area that's on the property, but that likely won't happen till spring. when it comes to these businesses. So, like the one next to Domino's, like it really is if they're looking for a restaurant, like it's limited to what could go there.

How much can I to a point? I should say I shouldn't say limited, but like since like it's almost like there's like a drive-through option, I should say. Yeah. Obviously, they're they're going to be specific on who they rent to, correct? And their business.

How much can we do as a board to like reach out? Like I've like a couple months ago reached out to just a couple like bigger chain restaurants and I haven't heard back but I'm just you know I'm just trying to reach like trying to bring I feel like again one thing I feel like we're missing is like a maybe a major chain restaurant or something that a sitdown kind of place like how much could we do as a board to reach out to those businesses too to maybe help like I'm not trying to help just that guy renting but just like for the town purpose. Well, that's why we developed the enterprise zone, but where they don't have permit fees, correct? They don't pay tax on their stuff.

One is, you know, this is a good topic to bring up and one that I wanted to discuss at some point in time. We all want to bring in additional business. We we'd all love a, you know, a nice restaurant and some of the amenities that, you know, they have up north that we don't have here. The problem is we need more rooftops in order for that to happen. Businesses aren't going to come here with 92 or 300 people if you're a major chain. So, we need to figure out a way to get more rooftops here so that these larger developers will see that and bring these commercial businesses here. So I think the first thing we need to focus on is getting more rooftops so that these developers say you know

this is a growing area right I mean it happened in Planefield it happened in Shorewood it happened in Manuka it happened in Auego that's how those those towns grew by rooftops first and then the developers came the developers aren't going to come without the rooftop so we need to figure out how as a what like you're saying what can we do as a board to try to promote Is that even correct? Right. You know, I I I've asked Chris a couple questions regarding that. You know, could we look at uh reducing our lot size requirement so that a a builder could get more homes on a particular piece of property to make it more affordable for them to develop.

Right now, the problem is the cost of construction so high. Builders aren't building. Right. So, we need to create we need to create more rooftops in order to get these developments that It'll bring itself like it builds on itself. I get what you're saying. Right. I I guess builders are building. They're just not building here. Right. Right. You and I have spoke about, you know, you go to Northwest Indiana, St. John, even though it's expensive, they're building. They're building all the time. But I think if we go to a product of their tax of their tax structure and and I'll give you that, but if you go to asiggo, you see asiggo is building up. every farm field is changing from

correct. My friend lives there. They're constantly adding on and and you know, I guess as we talked when we went through some of the reasonzoning on the property over by the school and going to more I've been a not a fan of multifamily, but restricting or or you know bringing the smaller sizes down. We kind of talked about that as a as a template of what's happened and I think some of that's because there's jobs over there on the I8 corridor. Yeah.

So, we got to make it more advantageous to a larger maybe national home builder, a LAR or homes or somebody like that to want to come here and work with them. I mean developers want to look at a board that they want they know they can work with, right? and is going to provide some concessions along the way. But we're not going to get a, you know, we're not going to get a uh, you know, Texas Roadhouse or a Home Depot or, you know, you know, one of those type jewel unless we have the rooftops. They need customers, right? They don't want to be the first one to the dance. Correct.

So, we we did take a couple of steps in the last few years. is one is that we wave the permit don't wave the permit fees but we'll uh we allow them to pay the permit fees at the end when they get their occupancy permit rather than at the beginning. Uh so that that was to try and help specousing you know jump forward a little bit. Uh and we still have that program in process or in place and then we also did the enterprise zone residential enterprise zone on numerous properties in the town to try and help developers come in. again, no permit fees. They just pay the inspection fees and then uh they don't have to pay any sales tax on building materials. Um but you know, those programs are here. It's just again uh I don't think we're on the map of any of the big big builders. Um and I think that the project behind Casey's over there between Casey's and the school, they did try and market that to some larger nationwide builders and they just weren't interested in coming here. It's kind of the chicken and the egg, right? Nobody wants to be the first to win in in the small town because they look at it and say, "You don't have enough to warrant spending $8 million building this project." But we can't get there without getting the $8 million project. So, it's

You think we need to bring somebody in to help us with bringing things into Mantino? Like a director of economic development. Yeah, that's something we could talk about. I mean, is anyone in our area building up? Like, is Bradley building up? Bradley's getting all these things, but they're just they're putting in the investment of like a park and then they're hoping almost again they're taking the risk and they're hoping it's going to grow. We don't know if it's going to pay off or not with that. I don't I don't know that Bradley's looking to grow rooftops. Right. Right. Correct. They might feel like they're at a good spot. Yeah. I don't I don't know if they have the real estate to Correct. That's true. They're somewhat landlocked.

That's true. We're not we we we we we got we can go east or west really. Well, I guess I guess the question as a board that we first have to answer, do you want to be a small town or do we want to be a bigger town? That's exactly what I was sitting here thinking. I mean, it's there's people who came here because it's a small town. And I'm not saying I want a big town, but I want business. It's got to be responsible controlled growth. I mean, we don't want to we don't want to grow. We don't want to double We don't want to double tomorrow and then be at 18,000. I don't think

20 years ago we were building at a rate that was unsustainable. Schools were getting bombarded. The infrastructure wasn't there and that's why we intentionally slowed up the building. Well, now we find ourselves 20 years later, school enrollments down and you know, if we don't have some more rooftops coming, that taxation, it's gonna it's going to go up, right? So what we're really looking for is controlled growth 100%. No, I mean Yeah, correct. That's%

and that's what I said with Bradley like they're looking to fill their hotels. They're they're looking at doing things that will maximize what they have because they've got the big box stores. They've got the hotels. That's why they're going that direction. We don't have them. And people aren't going to move to Mantino to be able to water park. Yeah. I don't think there's any magic bullet that we're gonna, you know, that that's out there that uh is going to make this happen overnight. But we, like Chris was saying, some of the things that we put in place to hopefully try to attract,

this is kind of what I was thinking was that like the fiveyear plan, like what are things we could start doing yearly to try to again over a 10-year span bring, I don't know, another thousand or 2,000 people into our town. But us as a board have to realize that if we go to developer to want to get that growth going, they're not going to come. They're not they're not Yeah. They're They're going to come They want to build a 100 houses, right? Know that that's just their way of doing it. They're going to want something in return. And nobody likes to hear, "Oh, you're giving a tax break." But what else do we have to offer? Correct. They're going to want us to be able to negotiate breaks for them in order for them to make it viable.

How many new homes did we build last year, too? Next page. Todd's saying, "Hey, let's talk about a little bit now before anything before all of a sudden we get a say Lamar or whatever that they come out here and say that they want to build and then we're fighting amongst each other. We don't want to have that hash it out now. So this way if that comes up we are in sync because

so we have to be on the same page. Either we're going to have the the the small hometown builders build five 10 houses. I mean, last year we did three and we'll we'll we'll have small controlled growth. Or if we want the Home Depot and the Texas Roadhouse, in order to get those, we're going to have to bring in a national builder that's going to, like Joel said, want concessions from this board to be able to do that. Or we just don't have those type of businesses. We're not going to have a Walmart, a Costco, a Walmart. And I'm not even saying that we need that. I just wanted to just add like a chain, just one chain. But I guess again going to do it on a limb like Chris said and invest millions of dollars to be the only

Is there any way that we can promote it where like I go to Roadhouse I don't live in Bradley you know what I mean like why couldn't they build one here you don't think Bradley and Burban will come 10 minutes down the road well if you drive anywhere in the United States down an interstate and you look where's the Texas Roadhouse at? No, I know. I always interchange developing interchange. Correct. They're not in downtown PTON. Correct. Not in downtown Mantino. We got space where the Domino's is built that I feel like is right off the interstate. That would be a track. They have business models that are proven track records and they won't

correct. Why change? Yeah. you know, CJ calling them or CJ, Peggy, Todd, Joel calling, they're not going to change from their proven track record.

And I have a feeling there's thousands of people here who are very happy they're not living in a big city with a lot of industry. I do want to bring up one other point that uh I've been told from our local builder who pretty much does most of the housing in this area that and I don't know that there's any way to change this, but anybody who watches our board meetings hears that this town is going to blow up. People are going to die. Um it's a horrible place to live. Uh the town has been ruined by the business that came here. We put out our police statistics and I'll be honest with you, when you hear that a small town has 800 incidents, that's shocking to a lot of people. When you hear 20 people got arrested in a month in a small town, a lot of people are not aware that we have crime here, too, right? But, and I get it. It's, you know, you want to be transparent so everybody knows everything that's going in town, but somebody who doesn't live in town that hears some of this stuff goes, there's no way in hell I would move there. And that developer has been told that as he's trying to sell houses, they're like, "Oh, no, no. We we've heard what Mantino is and there's no way we want to be."

I don't think that's true. Huh? I don't think that's true. I've talked to an awful lot of people and they are happy that they know what is going on in our community. Well, again, I'm not talking about people already here. It's attracting new people. It is it it definitely is a role to play. I'm just repeating what a developer has told me when he's trying to sell houses. That's some of the feedback he's getting. Again, you can't change it. It's just the reality. Chris, can you talk about this active new construction? Are these houses or what are these? Yeah, these are new construction that are in process. Are they houses?

No. Well, like uh so the the beard, those are the three units out there in Eagles Landing. Um East Division, that's a fiveunit apartment townhouse building that's being built. Then the the rest of them are all single family. So there is some growth. Real quick, going back to the the growth. Do we want to be a small town or do we want to be a big town? The only thing that I want people to take a look at, I don't have an opinion either way, but look at Homer Glenn, what they were, they wanted to be the small town. They wanted to keep themselves small and their taxation grew just drove everyone out to the point that they had to start becoming big in order to

to avoid the increased taxation. So when we look at Mantino and we say our taxes are high, there's really only one way of getting our taxes down and that is to get some of those big box stores that can help offset. So for the thousands of people who love the small town feel, and I happen to be one of them, I want to be a small town person. Got we've got to balance it out of how much are we willing to pay on our taxes to remain

small town. Correct. No, I know that's that's that's that's the thing because like we've been bringing up this maybe this year or possibly next year could probably be the last year we're doing the tax rebate because we don't have new money flowing in from businesses or the tax base. So that's why the town is that's why I'm trying to like again wake the town up a little bit here to a point of it's about to hit us where we're going to have to pay. I mean our portion we need to help you know like that gentleman there. We got to figure out something that going to keep these businesses flowing into our town. Correct. And you know but bringing like 20 of those then like if we want to like fund it. Yeah.

Unfortunately a business like that is not going to support man. It's just not they don't bring in enough tax revenue. Correct. Wait. You need you need the big business. But small businesses helps, but big business is obviously going to be like the bigger. We want good viable small businesses. Every community does. But what what Joel's trying to say and what I'm saying is those type of businesses are not going to support the tax rebate, garbage pickup, all you know, the nice things that we want to we want to provide as a as an amenity for people that want to come to Mantino. a gaming place or a bar or, you know, a little restaurant's not going to provide the tax dollars to do that. Yeah,

you're on the right track, CJ, with wanting to try and get some of these national chain businesses here, but they don't come first. Yeah, the the rooftops come first and then they come. But this is something we got to start. Like we're saying and like Annette is saying, you know, there's people that want to keep it a small town. You can't have both. Yes. It's going to be a small town. Now we got to be willing to pay these high property taxes that we're paying. Correct. Because we don't have the big businesses to support it. Correct. Yeah. No, I know.

I mean, I was driven out of Lockport and Homer Glenn, too. That's one of the reasons I moved to Mantino 23 years ago because our taxes in Lockport just kept going like this to the point where it was not sustainable. Well, now 23 years later, I'm I'm back at that same spot, right? We all are. But we can't have both. We can't have low taxes and no growth. Correct. No, absolutely not. Yeah. Well, we don't want crazy growth either. That's No. Again, like I said, no one I don't think anyone would want us to double tomorrow. We would We just don't have the infrastructure. We wouldn't be able to support it. It would it would it would take us a while to kind of catch up.

Well, too, like the factory over there and stuff, they don't pay enough wages for the people to build the houses here to build in Mantino. I mean, a lot of that over there, they're renters, right? Which we hope turns into more permanent. I mean, I don't know that I they pay more than the school. I can tell you that much. And I live here, but

but I think that honestly, like part of the welcoming, if you will, of the factory into town was a an effort to try to promote growth. Um, now hindsight's always 2020. Are we is it promoting growth or is the division amongst our town and the fighting and and the fear factor preventing it? I I don't know. And I'm not saying that to point fingers one way or the other because I'm not pointing a finger at at someone because there's going to be four pointing back at me, right? So I I I think to the point that Chris made, we've got to if if we want growth, we've got to come together. We got to have discussions. We got to say this is what we want. Do we want the controlled growth? Do we not want the controlled growth? Um do we want to stay a small town? And if so, everyone needs to know that taxes ultimately will end up going up. And

by the way, renters pay taxes. They pay it through their rents because, you know, some of those lots that sat there empty for 30 or 40 years over on the east side that are now being built up with really nice looking town houses, you know, they're getting $2,000 a month in rent for those things. So, they're paying taxes. They're just paying it through their rents. Well, the people at the factory that I know of, they're there are some that are that are making rent scale income, but it's better rent scale income there than anywhere else in the county. Um, but the administrative people, they've moved up north because they didn't feel that the family was welcomed here. um that we got to have that change where people feel all people feel welcomed even if they have a difference of opinion or if they work someplace that we may not like. I mean there there was an employee from goan here at our last board meeting and he got lamb based on social media just because he was here. he didn't say anything then you you know we can't we can't have that

correct either way and we've we've had that discussion with the public too of both kind of ways of trying to like again promote it that way so that we don't because again yes I don't want to be seen as nope we're not we're not going to move here but we'll move to Bradley or we'll move to Burbanet we'll move to King of Ki but we're not going to move here because they seem to be in cahoots or there's out of sorts like that's the vibe we have to change if we want to even get anywhere just Not even if we want to get big, just sustainable I think is something that we need to be looking at because again we are drying up and I think I hate to say it but I think PTO might be a good example of we're seeing kind of what might happen here. I heard that PO things are starting to kind of come down down especially with their school system and that's going to be a big shock for a lot of people. So it's almost like I want to just let's be as proactive as possible as we can without again I get the small growth and I get that but there's there has to be some growth too. You can't just be stagnant unless again we're willing to pay super high taxes.

I'd like to see the builders build new homes and stuff like that. You know, I think everybody needs

I will say it's it and and we all do it. It is unfortunate, but Chris, what he said is 100% true because I've had I've had a conversation with a large developer that develops commercial properties throughout Chicagoland, Indiana, Missouri. Um, and my conversation with them was point blank. They had looked at coming to Mantino, but realized that the board was in such disarray that they decided to back out because they felt it would be an uphill battle. So, what Chris is saying is true. It's It's not a fabricated lie. It's it's reality and it's unfortunate, but if if I was that developer looking to come here and I watched one of our board,

you just said in disarray, but he just said because of the police reports. No, I said it's the general narrative that's put out there by the public. And again, they're entitled to their three minutes in talk. It's just not conducive to getting people to come to town. That's just the reality. People are entitled to say what they want 100%. It just doesn't help in terms of growth. That's all I'm saying. Um, anything else to see in these fourth quarter recap numbers?

Nope. So, yeah, the residential recap, those are the ones that are still under construction, do not have occupancy permits yet. We've issued now three temporary occupancies on the apartment building uh over on division. So, those are filling up. And I will say that, yeah, he's he's able to rent those out as fast as he can get them done again at two grand a month. So, there's clearly a need for that. Uh, and in part, I'm sure because it's hard to afford a half a million dollar starter home, you know, that and especially at 5% interest. That's just where we're at right now. Uh, so new construction for the quarter. We had one additional single family home out in Rock Creek that got started. Um, 96 total permits, inspections by everybody. Again, Jim Hanley helps out. Brian Prince helps out when me and Jim aren't available. So, we appreciate the public works being able to do that. And 21 sidewalk inspections. That kind of tells you in terms of how many houses have sold in the quarter. And then contractor registrations obviously are slower this time of year at 46. That next sheet gives you the annual permit recap yearbyear from 2022 up through this year. Uh so you can see permits are down a little bit. The 2023 at 900 was because of the hail storm. Those are you can see the the roof permits were up to 450. So go over that and then the the larger sheets are obviously the ones that you've seen in the past. So, I'll let you go through those, but that gives us the revenues and the increase in values based on those permits that are, you know, anytime somebody fills out a building permit application, they have to put the value of that improvement on the permit. So, that's where we get those numbers from. And then the inspections kind of break down the

building, subcontractors, public, the plumbing and electrical that we do. So, as I'm sitting here thinking um about our last conversation, so it's good that we're all thinking on the same lines as far as we need to do something, right? We can't just sit here and, you know, stay stagnant. years ago, I remember uh when I was first on the board and Bernie Thompson was the village administrator. We would look at coming up with a list as a board of some things that we'd like to do. Maybe one of those things would get done once a year. Remember that bill? We'd come up with a list of ideas. We we'd brainstorm and come up with ideas as as a group. Maybe we need to go back to that model and maybe as a group we need to come up with three or four ideas per board member of things we'd like to see possibly happen. Realizing that there's a good chance they're not going to happen, but at least it's a path forward to start generating some ideas so that maybe out of the six board members, we come up with one idea that we can all agree upon and say, "Yeah, let's let's try to pursue that that path, right? At least it's a start in the right direction. So maybe I don't know who, you know, CJ, if we're talking about building and you're planning and zoning, we want to figure out a way to come up with some new developments. Maybe you had that effort and say, "Hey, Mike, CJ, Peggy, Todd, Joel, Annette, come up with come to the next meeting with three ideas and let's discuss it."

Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's the only way we're going to at least get this horse a further further down the path. Correct. Yeah, that's a great idea. That's great. And that's that's how we came up with the, you know, let's let's let them pay for the permits at the end rather than the beginning so that you know they're not they're not four or $5,000 right out of the gate that they've got to pay interest on. So that was that was a brainstorming.

Yeah. And the enterprise zone, same thing. We've always had it for commercial, but knowing that housing was dragging, you know, they came up with the idea of, well, maybe we can convert some of the commercial into residential enterprise zones to help the builders, you know, their permit. We brainstor, you know, Joel brought up some ideas on Route 50. That's how we we reszone Route 50 so that you can either have a commercial or residential or or a combination of both, right? that just came out of a simple discussion at a at a committee meeting. Instead of uh having two different committee meetings, can we just take my item that I want to talk about, put it on yours just so we talk about it real quick before you leave?

Sure. Yeah. Uh so that's the express property purchase discussion.

So it kind of goes hand in hand with exactly what we're talking about right now. Like what do we want to do? How do we want to make our town better? And that's where this brought up. I my opinion I think that our downtown is beautiful. Our Route 50 corridor doesn't necessarily match and doesn't tie in. A lot of people traffic wise are driving right down Route 50. I think we need to focus on redeveloping Route 50. And one of the ideas I had brought up to you guys to take a look at and I've sang the song for a few years now. Um properties on Route 50. I I feel like express contracting everyone get a chance to take a look at it when they went past. Um obviously it's it's been on the market for 182 days I believe. I I think maybe we should consider and I know we don't want to spend money and we got money sitting in the bank and it's kind of a tough spot but the only way that we're going to be able to redevelop that is if we put some money forth and get it started. We want to start having Chris go and write to some of the places there and say if you're interested in selling your property, we may be interested in purchasing it at appraised value. We're not getting into a bidding war, but to help redevelop it and do like what we did with O'Reillies and stuff like that. That's a way of helping change. And if we could tie downtown and Route 50 where the traffic going through are all of a sudden gonna stop and come in, it's going to make our downtown more vibrant, might get more restaurants, might get a burgers and beer or something to want to come here. Just an idea I have and I wanted you guys to look at it. I know we've talked about slowing our spending down and this

is spending, but we're really just changing liquid cash to real estate. Well, you got you got to spend money to to make money like in a way like a town has to do that to keep it vibrant. So, I'm not necessarily against it. I think that is a good idea pathway forward because again, you make that look nicer, look fuller and spots. I mean, I'm not saying it's not all nice because there are some nice businesses already there, but making it look fuller. Yeah. that will then maybe turn turn downtown or turn into a thing.

Well, you you you you mentioned that and I know that we're we're getting bids or that for the old public works buildings. Like if we were to sell those old public works buildings, could we roll that that those funds into buying like a piece of property? That's that's kind of why I brought it up when I did because we were talking about those old public works building. Have a good day. Sorry. your property area. I'm looking at the whole pro the the whole route 50 corridor in general, but the one that came up is the express contract. Yes.

Um and I wanted that to be as an example like, hey, look at that building. Do we think that we could promote that to be something different? And have we ever reached out to I mean have you talked to Copelan to see if he's got any anybody interested in that building or Electriccom? Has anybody Electriccom just sold uh back in September or October? Okay. So that building somebody's coming into that.

Yeah. I don't know if they just bought it as an investment. They haven't put up any signs for rent or so. I don't know if they're just using it for a storage building or or what. It's a guy out of France. You know, this is probably a crazy thing that I have thought about. We have an awful lot of parks and there's a lot of parks that aren't used that over there is that Rooer Park and that there's not that many people the land there. I mean, I don't know. Can we do anything with something that So, I guess my point on this is so we don't have so much maintenance and stuff. Is there I mean that's just an idea thrown out. Could we take the park and develop it into a subdivision?

I don't know. That one's That's a flood plan. Okay. Or any anything? I don't know. That's just I'm asking you guys. I mean, it's a it's a it's it it's a viable question. I think if I was a resident living in that neighborhood, I'd probably say, "Well, why are you taking my park and tearing it apart?" You know, no, it's just you're going to get that reaction, but just a question. Something to think about. Um Like over there at Rooder, is that is that because it's so low? Is that why it's flooding? It's adjacent to Rock Creek. Okay. Chris, the uh the property Joel's talking about, I did I drive by there and see a permit in the window?

Shouldn't be. No,

I I see the for sale sign is down, so I don't know if they've taken it off the market now or what, but uh yeah. Well, I mean, those are I mean, those are the type of things I think we need to look at. I've always thought that kind of one of our kind of stumbling blocks here in Mantino when you when you look at other communities like a Frankfurt or a Neighborville or a downtown Lraange is that those towns have a main street and offshoots of commercial businesses as well. We've got pretty we're pretty limited to just Main Street. We do have a couple businesses on the side streets, but for the most part, we've always kind of been just Main Street. In order to do that expansion that Joel's talking about, you do need to have those offshoots to be able to develop. And unfortunately, when you come into Mantino on Route 50, the first property that you see to the north isn't in the that great a shape, and the first property you see to the south isn't in that great a shape. It's like, welcome to Mantino, right?

Yep. the very first property coming into the south. Well, it's the clinic, I guess, technically, but then you got to grab the parking lot. I think it's always been something we've talked about. When I was on the board in 2013, we talked about

Well, remember when you were on the board, we one of my ideas were I wanted to have an opening where you could see like the arches that we have on Main Street weren't really my idea of Main Street. I wanted it over a view looking from Route 50 in where people could see it lit up. But do you do you have any opposition to us having Chris maybe solicit just put out there see just get a feel? I don't even know. It may not even be an economical thing for us to consider, but buildings like this one when they come available if that's something that we want to do as a board. We're gonna have to try to start snagging them up as they come.

What's the listing price? They've got it listed at 209, but we can't I mean, we whatever it appraises for. That's what we're looking.

We're talking about how our funds are lower than they've been in many years, but yet on the other hand, we're talking about spending money. So, there's somewhere there's a balance there. And that's that's where I'm saying like yes, the balance and our funds are low, but are we we're not really spending because we're going to potentially redevelop it and sell it, right? It's an asset. We're just purchasing an asset like the public works buildings that we had that we got the appraisals on. We could sell like this one building might be an exchange of the property on Oak Street that was our public works buildings in exchange for something on Route 50 that would help us beautify it

perhaps. I mean, Frankfurt to me is a beautiful downtown area with a small town feel. Every time I drive through it, it's a beautiful downtown area. You got the small town feel. I know for a fact that they've done exactly what Joel's talking about. They bought distressed properties, accumulated them to a certain point, and then developed them. And that's how they keep that downtown area looking nice and expanding. They they just did it six months ago. That's what Tinley Park did as well. Tinley Park and Old Park Avenue. They the city of is attempting to do that. Frankfurt, do you know when they started doing it or now? Now. Oh, I have no idea. 18,000.

Frankfurt's 18,000. So they're double the size of a mantina, but when they started they were probably were probably not much bigger than what we are right now.

I don't know. It's just this is an idea and if we got to give Chris some direction if we want to explore it. But I feel like and again I'm not saying that we have to commit to it but see if there a if it's for sale b you know if it's something that we're going to want to do then get an appraisal and see about you know is it something we'd want to purchase but I don't want to spend money telling Chris to get an appraisal on it if we're if if we're going to have a division amongst the board because this has got to be somewhat more of a long-term comprehensive type plan of Do we agree that that redevelopment will benefit our community in the long run?

Well, let's get with uh Annette and Mike and see what everybody's feeling is on it and that mayor, you know, what you think as well. We've got two major things going on right now. The audit that we're waiting for that might be ready in February and then what's going to happen with Goan and whether they're going to come into compliance with everything that they're supposed to be doing, right? So, I think you're you're rushing this. I think we need to get through those two major things first. Okay. I I I don't think what Joel is asking to do. Discussions are good. I'm all in favor of discussion,

but I don't think what Joel's asking to do is going to cost us any money initially. All it is is Chris potentially sending out a couple of letters to property owners to say, "Hey, if and when you're looking to sell. The village may be interested. Yeah, we need to know what the bottom line is. So, let's get through that audit and see what what's happened.

I got one item just to mention real quick. the uh Chris emailed out the sorry Chris emailed out the uh turf proposal for removing and then re placing the turf over in the south area on the square where the building's going to go. Just want to make sure everybody took a look at that. I think we're going to have it on the board agenda for next week. It's $22,484. U going be getting a second price for the change order stuff in that center location. the removal, the regrading for the merrygoround, uh where that sidewalk we're going to remove. There'll be more turf added there, uh where the tree was to regrade that and then to put fall zone protection in around that zip line and we'll take up that poured rubber mulch. So,

we'll get another price for that. Okay, motion to adjurnn. I'll make the motion. Second. on. Hi, I'm running your meeting. Oh, we're actually finishing up CJ's.