Public Safety Committee - Regular Meeting

Just do that, and the people just don't walk up and hang their sign on the fence. It doesn't sound right.

No. It doesn't.

Sure it does. Of course, you get pitched at for doing input.

I would say if that's the case, let me know because I'll hang my business side.

I'll Right.

Your business side and hang it there.

That's good location. Yeah.

Well, you do that. And then when you get called on, you

go No.

The Somebody's on the corner.

I have them. I mean, I've got signs. I never hung up. Where is it? And if nobody says anything, what the hell?

Right across my fire station. Yeah. Signs. My church wants to hang a Easter invitation There is. Banner up there. It was

all five of if

it's okay to hang up. But I asked him. He gave him the

I think there's one about

something Well, Adam Tegan would be the guy.

Yeah. But Yeah. This call What was it? Email Adam

or call the general number.

Yeah.

I'm sure they'll point in the right direction.

Like, more military men were brought back in a portion of the bodybuilding.

Looks like I'm on a committee

that's already doing it all. Committee? He was saluting, but he had

a baseball camp. Signage downtown.

But it

was not The reason

I sent that to you is that's in District 3, and you're Yeah. You're the older for District 3. Right?

Yeah. Okay. It is 530. We will call the March public safety committee meeting to what did you break? Oh.

K. What are you breaking over

there? Roll

call. Everybody is present. Public comment. Is there anybody here for public comment? Anybody on the wall?

First

call, second call, third call. Public comment is closed. Consent agenda. Is there anybody that would like anything removed from the consent agenda?

If not. I'll approve make a motion to approve the agenda as presented. Second.

And a motion and a second. Discussion? If not, all in favor?

Aye. Aye.

Cummings? No.

Anderson. I got renamed.

Anderson.

I was looking at Mike when it said sorry. I'm a good friend.

I'll let somebody else have the glory.

Discussion and action items. First item on the agenda, 26 dash zero one seven one, sex offender registered residency board appeal for Dominic Robinson.

Alright. This gentleman is currently he's not here, obviously, because he's at, kind of marine correctional institution right now, but, sounds like he will be getting out. I did speak with a probation officer. He is from Green Bay, city of Green Bay. He has no connections here in Manitowoc.

And as you're all aware, when we look at the waiver, waiver, we want some sort of, network of people that are gonna support him or her to not re offend. That's really not the case here. The reason that they're looking at moving to Manitowoc is simply because, Green Bay is refusing to let him live there. So, his mom, our parents live too close to a school or park or something like that, and they don't they're just not letting him live there. So that doesn't mean that it's not a good reason to come and live here and waive this ordinance.

I don't feel. The form isn't completely filled out, which I'm not thrilled about either. And Alder Schlei is no longer on this board, but when he was, he was a pretty big stickler for that, as well. But even if it was, after talking to the probation officer, I just don't see that there would be enough here to say we should waive it. But, certainly, that is up to the committee.

Thank you. Yep. Anybody?

Well, I'll get the ball started just so that we can discuss it. I'll make a motion to deny the request for the appeal, if you will.

Second.

Alder Cummings, did you have anything?

No. I I was gonna agree with the chief and from my review as well. And I was looking at his input or waiting. I had my notes to wait for his input, I was gonna say deny it as well. Okay.

But

we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? None. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Item on the agenda two twenty six Dash0172 school resource officer agreement for the city Manitowoc and Manitowoc Public School District.

Okay. I'm not sure if your copy has track changes at all. Mine does not that I'm looking at. No. It doesn't. Okay. Well, the city attorney put this together, after we all had a meeting. City attorney, myself, deputy chief Puzzle, superintendent Lee Tennis, sergeant Kroc. Basically, we had a concern from one of our school resource officers about how the mileage was reimbursed. And we just decided to do what we probably always should have been, which is just however many miles you use in your personal vehicle to drive from one school to the next, that's what you mark down and that's what you get paid.

There was some long standing handwritten note that said they get $40 a pay period was it? A month. $40 a month. No matter how many whether they go over that mileage or stay under it. So we felt like we should just it's more fair to just, you know, basically say, this is how many miles. This is the this is the rate, which is which is set by the state or the feds. And that's the rate. And that rate takes everything into consideration, whether it be gas, wear and tear, maintenance, insurance. So it's a pretty good rate for the individual. But there are situations where one of our SROs has to drive their personal vehicle more often than the others.

The other thing that we put into place, we are going to hold back one of our squad cars that we would normally turn in trade in or hold one of those back and make it into more of an escrow squad that that officer can just drive to the police department, use that squad for their day, drive from school to school, and that'll cut down on the mileage anyways. Part of that disagreement also was updated to state that when that officer uses that squad car, the school will reimburse us for those miles. Because right now, the school is reimbursing us, the officer. Now they'll reimburse the city for using that city vehicle. The other thing that changes in this contract, DARE, teaching DARE was in here.

We are taking that out. The school wants to focus more on, the education aspect, the the things that they need to get done, you know, the the basic education things versus DARE. So, they asked, and we agreed we would no longer teach dare in the public schools. So that is carved out of here as well. I think that's pretty much it.

Alright. Thanks.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Motion and a second. Any further discussion?

Yep. Just a just quick question to make sure I fully understand. So then the the school, are they the ones reimbursing the mileage if they use a personal vehicle? Yes. And and then also then reimbursing the police department if you use the squad car in that aspect?

Correct.

Okay. That that was it. And then the DARE piece, like, no DARE whatsoever anymore?

Correct. So what what we looked into is we are one of the very few agencies and school districts that are having this having DARE anymore. And, again, they it was more their decision than it was ours. We would keep teaching it. But and then they're paying for it. So it's it's kinda one of those things I can't say, hey. You gotta keep doing this when you're paying for it. So, I I don't think it's the wrong decision by any means. I I agree with the school. But, again, we would have kept teaching it if if that's what we kinda came to a consensus. But, we are still teaching it. We have DARE officers, certified DARE officers with the police department teaching it in some of the, Lutheran and Catholic grade schools, but, not in the public school anymore. Cool.

Okay. Thank you.

Yep. Any further further discussion? All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Passes unanimously. Next agenda on the next item on the agenda 26 dash one eight seven. Discussion public private schools, no removal.

So when I went walking around for my signatures this year, this came up about a dozen times and then the next item came up by two to three dozen times about specifically the school of my districts, but I know the same issues arise at all of our schools, public and private. So I just wanted to bring it up to the city and see if there's any solutions that we can come up with to make our residents safer.

Mr. Chairman? Could Billy I was just

gonna invite him up. You wanna come up, Billy?

Yeah. I mean, I guess, currently, I think the only two schools that don't have at least one street, the main street in front of them that that is not on the Salt Route is the Ron Cali School on Walden Boulevard and Bethany off of Meadow Lane. It's like 33rd is probably their main entrance that is not on the Salt Route. And I guess I don't know if the Roncalli school, if it's 14th or 15th, that's the main entrance there for the drop off zone. That would be the other one.

Otherwise, I think all the other schools, the main drop off area is on Assault Route already. It doesn't go all the way around the school, but at least one, you know, one street in front of

the school is on the Salt Road currently. So I guess what the constituents were asking is, would it be possible to get the salt around the schools because that's where all the parking and kids are walking across and you're trying to stop. And if there's two inches of ice that we get sometimes, even if you're going 10 miles an hour, summer your breaks, you're still gonna slide for a while before you stop.

So you're asking that every street all the way around all the schools would be a salt row?

Right. And if that if that'd be a lot of extra work or because if they just had to go around the block, like, how much extra time would that actually take the city?

Well, I guess I didn't know exactly what the request was gonna be, so I didn't look into that at all. I can figure it out, you know, kinda give you an idea on on salt usage and stuff like that, what it would take, time. I'm just trying to think of which ones would be because I think

to we'll

ir

then

we'll do

that.

Then

do And same section of Manila.

We'll

Washington is covered, right? It's 23rd or not?

23rd is not. 21st is, so that section of 23rd would have to be added. And then depending School Street and 9th Street are on Wilson. I think that's it.

I mean Make a motion to send this to public infrastructure with his recommendations or estimates.

Well, I just wanna say quick. I noticed that a lot of the complaints came when we'd have a decent snowfall overnight, the plows could only make one pass north, south, east, west just to open the roads up. So then you had the parking lanes. Right. So that's when I've seen a lot of the They

were talking about the side streets around the schools where you park and all the walk across and they walk up between cars and you don't see them until they're right there. Once you it wouldn't be that much extra for that safety aspect of the kids, it's just a little bit. I feel like it'd be worth that.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think it'd be bad to send it to public infrastructure. Mr. Cummings?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I can certainly appreciate, all their debates and bringing this up. And obviously, safety for kids is obviously important. I you know, the thing is that what I get with this and I've been on a public infrastructure is, you know, every every snowfall that we have, people are always complaining about the snow plowing. Like, unless we get double the amount of snow plows, double the amount of resources, nobody's gonna be happy to some aspect. I mean, I can tell you, I get for the downtown area, I get complaints every snowfall for that. We don't, you know, do enough on 8th Street and 10th Street and everywhere else. I mean, realistically, it's a monumental job to do it, and it eventually gets done. Right?

It's just a matter of when and people adjust. I guess from just hearing, you know, a little bit, obviously, right now, there's not enough information to have that educated decision of, hey. This is what we should do or shouldn't do. So I do agree that it should get referred somewhere if we wanna do it. But in the grand scheme of things, unless there's been data where we've had a ton of accidents after snow storms, ton of accidents at schools, ton of injuries, I mean, I don't know if there's enough that's going to ultimately, at the end of day, make it change, personally.

That's my gut feel. That being said, we can certainly look at it and then make an educated decision. But, I mean, like, I hate to say it, but, you know, this is everywhere you're gonna get people complaining. That's just what people do. You know? I mean, we invest 6,000,000 in roads every year, and we have people say that our roads suck. Like, I mean, we could invest I was thinking about it when I was bought a lottery ticket. Was like, you know, if I win the lottery, should I invest some money into the roads? You know? And I don't know if you can invest enough money and and have people not complain about something.

So not saying that this is not an excuse. I'd support referring it to public infrastructure to get looked at, But but I don't think it's something that's insanely pressing that, you know, where there's a a break at this point.

So Yeah. I would agree. And like I said, when they open up the roads quick just so everybody can get where they gotta go, they don't always get back to do that next pass along the curb. So I think a lot of the complaints come from that. But, yeah, I have no problem sending it to public infrastructure for further eval. Eval.

Chief has a comment.

Just wanna remind everyone too that if you do that, which is fine, or if we change those hot routes, we have to add signs to that. We have to add the little red and white signs, and then we have to change ordinances. So it's not gonna happen overnight, because you have to have ordinances backing up those signs, and we have to put the signs and possibly pulls and different things up. So it's not gonna just be the cost of the salt and extra plows. And it's also I mean, I don't want speak for Billy, but it's going to you're right.

Other companies that you're not going obviously get more snowplows and no more snowplowers. So other places would suffer possibly or just it would take longer. I'm not sure. I'm not no phone driver, but mostly, I just wanted to state the fact about the fact that the salt routes all have to have those signs and then ordinances backing those up. So that would have to be looked into.

Thanks. Other debates?

I was thinking more of just the the snowfalls that we don't plow the rest of the streets because there's not enough snow. Not when like, it wouldn't be

Clean it up better at the schools than we would

anywhere else in the city. Just on those two two and a half inch snowfalls where the side streets don't get plowed at all. At least plow on the schools at that point after everything else is done. I guess that's what I was trying to get done. So then when the sun comes out, it melts it, and it'll be safe around the schools that way. I would I guess I wasn't trying to get it plowed every time it snowed with the salt road. Just that if we're only doing the salt roads, then that gets added on, if that makes sense.

Makes sense to me.

Pardon? There a name for that? Like, when they only plow, do they call that, like, a general plow or

a Well, there's either an emergency snow ban is when all the streets get plowed. A snow ban is just when the salt routes get or bus routes get plowed. And then we have a new downtown parking where we just have a ban where the downtown is and you can't park down there.

Nearly get two inches. What what what do you call?

So when called something. When yeah. When we pull the side streets throughout the entire city, we call it a general plow.

So that's what there be who is adding

No. Because during a general plow, they would be plowed.

Okay.

I guess I'm trying to think of, like, if we get a two and a half inch snowfall, we're probably plowing all that can we we of it and everything. And we didn't I mean, we had right around an inch both times. But, you know, in the middle of winter, if we get a two inch snow snowfall and winter is gonna stay and we don't have, you know, 40 degree temperatures coming, we're probably gonna be pulling that. So I just kinda take that into thought as well.

Alder Eckleberg.

So if there's an inch, inch and a half, you're not going to plow necessarily.

Not a general plow. Not

a general plow, probably not. An inch and a half, you might be close. I'm not sure.

Do you drop salt or sand?

We would For

example, I guess what I'm saying is there's been a number of times where there's been snow. I've had a shovel. It wasn't much. And later in the afternoon, a snowplow comes through, but the plow isn't down, but he's throwing sand or salt or lord knows what.

Yep. We'll do, sand and sand and or salt, at the stop signs, hills, intersections, and curves so that it gives the ability to stop.

I think what William or Alder Beats was looking at is maybe just being a little more thorough around the block that the school sits on, not just the salt route or this or, you know, if it's if you guys are out for any reason, just make one trip around the block and either salt it, sand it, or plow the damn thing. Just, you know, just around the block, not down the block or this. Just around the block that the school sits on. And I think that's what he's looking for. I I would support it after you go back and you put a pencil to and say, jeez.

You know? If we do that for all the schools, it's gonna take us an hour and a half or two hours additional plowing. Okay? That's nice to know. Or I need four tons more of salt, you know, or sand or whatever. I think if we have that information, I think most people would be able to sit and go, okay. If that's all it is around the school and this is the price of that, And then we'd vote on it up or down or send it back and say, we need more information. I don't know. But thank you.

And

if you could do it before clear the sidewalks so we could So they don't get buried again. Alright. So what what did we say?

Motion to refer to public infrastructure.

Okay. To the department and the committee. Yes. Alright. Always second that.

We got a motion and a second to refer it to public infrastructure. Any further discussion? If none, all in favor?

Aye.

All opposed? Alright.

No. I don't think you have to say general because the general, they get it. Just that when there is

Can't say we want to refer to them. We have to get all what we're

Right. That when there is a snow that they pay Just parking

for corners.

Yeah, because

generally you'd be doing it anyway.

Yeah, you pay closer attention to the block that the schools are on around there, the streets. It doesn't matter whether it's one inch, two inches, or what.

To add all streets around public private schools to plow and salt roads for every snowfall. Basically.

For every snowfall that they plow.

Yes. Period.

Anywhere.

Anytime they go out with a truck.

But they're not going to go out with them.

Well, that

is Right. Yeah. It

doesn't matter. You just have to have something to actually do when we're referring it. Because if we're referring it in there, we send it to them, and they're going to look at it like, what do you want me to do with it?

Well, this is government.

And I was just happy that I understood general plowing, That's why I

was Okay. Perfect. We're on the same page. Okay.

Last item on the agenda. 26Dash0188. Discuss safer parking and pedestrian crossings near schools.

So I've talked to the crossing guards and many parents, and I don't know if we wanna try to do painted curbing or put the signs up that say no parking from here to corner. I'm just saying intersections around the school again because I pick up kids, and a lot of times, they're within a foot and a half of the corner, halfway covering up the sidewalk, and you can't see anything happening when you're trying to make turns around the corners, especially, quite frankly, when you're on the side streets sometimes with how close people park. So I just thought something visible and if that means parking lines, depending on the school, because it makes more sense. I don't know. I would love to hear your thoughts about it because I'm sure you hear a lot of complaints.

I don't, actually. But I I think it would be helpful if we have specific like, this is a general statement, and I I feel like, if we had more of a specific problem area that we can attack, that would be the way to go with this. Because I just, you know, a general statement, we have a lot of schools, obviously. And a lot of times, we think that we're gonna solve a problem by changing parking, and we create another problem. So a lot of these, you know, were thought through throughout the years.

Maybe there's some that slipped through the cracks that we can better. I know it drives me nuts. I was just having a conversation with somebody today about Jackson School. I'm in Ash Avenue. It's the parking signs and everything, it just doesn't even I I understand it, but I can see how people would be very confused by it. Of course, that's a school that's not gonna that's gonna solve itself, I guess, for next school year. But, yeah, Franklin School, if you're aware of something specific that is a problem, I think, you know, we go out there and and we observe it ourselves and see if there's anything we can do.

So, like, when people park between the drivers that have this rent space

Yeah. That's that's that's an enforcement issue for sure. We need to be out there and taking that vehicle or at least educating them so you can't that's illegally they're illegally parked.

Right. And that's what I've been seeing, especially by Ron Colley on Volvo.

Okay.

On fourteenth, there. Like, it's horrible. Some days. Fifteen. Oh, okay.

And I think they'll park wherever because they'll park it'll say don't park 20 feet to the curb, and they'll put two more cars in there when it's pickup time. Well, they put that sign up for I don't think we really enforce it anyway because we know they're gonna be leaving soon.

Right. So There's no other way to do it for the parent, you know, for the parents, for the violators, if you will. But, you know, your description when you talk about actually, like, they're parking and getting out of vehicles Mhmm. When there's, like, this much space between driveways. No.

That's that's not acceptable. When they're stopped in traffic temporarily. Because, obviously, drop off is usually not as big of a deal as pickup because everybody picks up at the same time, and it's kind of controlled chaos or organized chaos. But I think people have to understand that it's a situation where you can't, kind of like Elder Cummings talked about earlier, you're going to get complaints no matter what because there's so many vehicles at one time. There's gonna be a need for people to be patient, which oftentimes they're not.

And it could certainly be a more of an enforcement issue than it is something that we can do here to say, hey. Let's, you know, paint lines or people are only as good as or, you know, are are those are only as good as people are gonna follow them, I guess. And, I just feel like we need to do a better job of enforcing that. And but, you know, keep those lines of communication going so we know when when these are happening, where they're happening, and then we can more easily tackle it. Because, obviously, we have about six officers and I don't know how many schools.

But So when the complaints come in, write down where the issue is, and then you guys will try to look

at Absolutely. Time and location. Even if you get a if they get a plate number, we will call that person and, you know Oh. And educate them. That's been done a lot of a lot of times. But, yeah, sometimes it is a situation like elder Beaman said, it's it's kinda temporary, and people just have to understand, okay, it's these laws were written for more of, like, okay, a person can't park there, you know, for hours versus, know, sitting in traffic and trying to accomplish child pickup is somewhat different. It's kind of the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law.

Anderson. Alder Anderson. I was gonna say something, and I got lost.

I saw your mind go Yeah.

I've got I've got it. Chad, I've got it easy. I can see all the hands.

Yeah. I was just gonna respond to you into that. He was I'd let him go first.

You're just squirming like a worm on a hook. I was enjoying the moment. I'm sorry. I just have more of a curiosity question since we're on this for sort of following it. I've been asked, like, I live Caddy Corner from I think it's Wilson over by Felician Village. And there's some houses there, obviously, that I have a three car wide driveway. So mine's not too much of a problem, but I've seen people ask me, you know, like you said, hanging over a foot, two feet over the driveway. I understand, you know, it's not too much. But if someone's sitting in the car, you just ask them to move. But I've seen, you know, sometimes someone will actually get out of the car and leave and leave, like, two feet of the car hanging over the driveway.

I curious question I have. If it's a repeat offender, the same person doing it over and over, is it possible for someone to get a picture of the vehicle, the driveway, on the license plate, and turn that in? I'm just curious how or if, like, what just no. They're not they can't do anything even though you sent them. I was just curious. That's all.

Certainly, it's possible. We prefer to be the witnesses ourselves because it's possible that I hate to say this, but with AI and everything else that is generated out there, a photo isn't really that good to me anymore.

Okay.

But, you know, a photo and and if we talk to the person they admitted, you know, then you got a little bit more there. But certainly, you know, just having that information, us being able to call, most of the people are good people, and they don't want a ticket. But, you know, to get out of your car and then if somebody needs to get out of the driveway, can't even move out of the way because you're not in your car anymore. That's a bigger problem, in my opinion, than somebody just kind of temporarily while waiting in their car. Oh, obviously, somebody needs to get out of the driveway. They can move. It's a bigger problem. But either way, it's it's, you know, it's I don't wanna say it's a necessary evil, but, you know, people need to just be smarter.

Okay. So, basically, when someone asked me again, hey. What what do I do? Just write the license plate number down, call it in.

And if they get a picture, that's even greater because then the person that we're calling can't argue it as much. Okay. We've seen that before where they'll they'll wanna admit it until because much of our traffic enforcement, we do take pictures, and we have it downloaded into what's called Clancy. It's our parking ticket software. And once they see that, like, I wasn't parked, you know, more than two feet from the curb. It's like, well, here, we have a measuring tape and a picture, and you were I was like, that works.

Okay. Thank you.

Yeah. Alder Eckleberg.

It's not their job, but I know Alder Bates called me on the subject that I'm going. You can't do it, but it's something I would like to at least bring up. And that would be we've got these crossing guards at different locations. I don't know if they have or could be provided some kind of a camera. Or like I said, it wouldn't be their job, but they certainly could keep an eye out.

And for example, if somebody complains, their job is to make sure the kids cross safely. But if there's no kids at the corner, they could snap a picture or at least be an observer from the police department, so to speak, and write down the license plate number or whatever as, I guess, your your support for the call to whoever. You know what I mean? And I don't know if you talk anything about that when you give them their training every year where they come in and you tell them this is how you do it or you know? I don't know if anything like that is look out for this stuff.

Don't look out for it. Don't worry about about it. Or if something with the crossing guards could be like just some kind of backup support for these offenders, where, I mean, they're standing there like this on the corner. Yeah, that lady in the station wagon pulls up and parks halfway across that driveway every week or every day.

Yeah. It's possible, but we really don't want to divert their attention. Because even though they may be standing there at one point, their attention is diverted, they're taking pictures of their kidneys across, we really want them to focus on child safety, getting the kids across. That's

That's what I was worried about. That's why, you know, I mean, I'm not making the decision, but I wanted at least a discussion. And you're giving me the feedback, which is why it was a bad idea. But you know?

No. I understand the idea. But, yeah, I would just worry that, you know, the liability there and the job description is for them to to get the kids across the street safely. And they're not doing that, you know, a 100 of the time. They might have time to, do some parking enforcement.

But, yeah, we certainly don't train them in that. And I don't believe they've ever really reported too much. Some of them do shake their fists at people speeding and different things, which, we get complaints about that sometimes. So really wanna just have them focus. But, ultimately, I think, you know, if we can just get a more, more information where we can have that focus on a certain time and location, we can do better, as a police department. Either our community service worker or a police officer on duty can, you know, hit those spots. And and usually, once that happens, people get the the word gets out, and hopefully, it gets better.

At least for a couple weeks. Right?

At least for a couple weeks. Yeah. Yeah. We can't be everywhere all the time, and I think people know that. So hopefully, they don't take too much advantage of that.

Oh, is there when I was a kid?

Yeah. And Amber is in charge of supervising the crossing guard, so she can definitely speak on that.

Alright. So replacing it on file.

I don't know we have to do anything other than Yeah.

It's gotta be closed. Yeah.

Okay. Well, receive and place on file noted that we had discussion. That's my motion. If it isn't the right motion, figure out what it should be and

And shill in the blank.

He seconded. Debates. Alder debates.

Okay. Further we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? If none, all in favor? Aye. Aye. All opposed? Okay. Looking for a motion to adjourn.

So moved. I'm gonna go back you.

Ahead and