Parks & Recreation Committee - Regular Meeting

Alright. I am calling our library board meeting to order at 05:00. Starting with any request to amend the agenda, do we

have any requests to amend? I think I have an update about our

email for board members. Okay.

So I'm not sure where you want to just at the end. Sure. It's not good news. Oh.

I know. Yeah. I see.

I know. Can say that, like, right at the end.

I love that. Like an Alfred Hitchcock thing.

Any other requests to? We can't top that. Alright. Then we will move on to public comment. Members of the public are invited to speak at the Manitowoc Public Library Board of Trustees meeting each month on any matter related to the oversight of Manitowoc Public Library. The comments from each speaker shall be limited to five minutes in length unless extended by action of the Manitowoc Public Library Board Trustees. Do we have anybody present for public comment, in person, or online? Second call for public comment? Last call. Okay. Public comment is closed, and then

we'll move on to approval of the minutes.

We have our regular board meeting minutes from September 22

looking for a motion to approve. So Nope. Go ahead.

No. Okay. So

Any discussions? All those in favor? Aye.

Opposed? K. It is

passed. Moving then on to our financial reports, and I'll send that over to you, trustee.

Everybody should have the fund twenty eight ten, the fund 2813, and the check register reports for them to see there. So I would move that we approve them as submitted.

Second. Thank you.

Alright. Motion and a second. Any discussion?

K. Seeing none. All those in favor?

Aye. Opposed?

Same as well.

Anything else, Chris?

No. That's it. Thank you. Sorry.

Should've said that. No.

That's alright. Then we will move on to correspondence. So we do have two items in correspondence. Did everybody have a chance to review those?

Any comments, discussion? I wanted to comment on our $10,000 gift coming next year. That was a surprise this week or just last week that we got that notification. So

I have a question about that. Yes. Are all

of our MCLS member libraries Carnegie libraries?

I don't know the history of their libraries.

Okay. I was just curious.

I only know. So I do not know. They would have gotten I've seen other libraries that have gotten the same email and message. So Okay. They would have gotten the same thing.

So we just have to go to each library and look for that thingy? Is that how we figure out whether or not?

Mitch. Each library. Each library. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Don't know if everybody has the privilege of displaying this nice painting. But they would've gotten emails. Yeah.

Feel true. Very

nice. Very nice.

Anything else on correspondence we received? Alright. Then moving into administrative reports. Starting with the director's report. I hope everyone got a chance to review that as well. And if anybody has any discussion or questions or anything for Karen.

There is something I wanna point out. I'm not sure exactly how this is referenced. For our the largest book vendor in America is going out of business. Oh. Baker and Taylor. I didn't put that in my Okay. Report. I'm sorry. No. That's it. I mean I didn't put it in my report here. I wanted to say, if you have background knowledge in libraries, you might know this, like Michelle. But they are the largest book vendor, if not globally. So What does that mean for us? It's a big deal. Yeah. We're dealing with it as every single private library

Yeah.

In America is doing okay. So lots of other vendors are, you know, stepping up, but they can't handle the capacity the way largest one did. We noticed some writing on the wall a couple months ago. So We made changes in August already about who we were choosing to purchase from. Okay. Because And now it's official. Oh, now it's official.

Okay. So I feel we're in a good spot. It's gonna be

okay. Yeah. Good. Yeah.

Have to make some changes. Yep. Along with the rest.

Yeah. Yeah. So do we lose money like they went into bankruptcy, or they're just stuck?

They went into bankruptcy, and they are closing their doors.

Okay. But we aren't as glad we're losing money. Like, we don't have outstanding bills for them or anything that we're not, like, outstanding. You know, like, we haven't ordered stuff, paid for it, and haven't gotten stuff.

That's correct. Okay. That is not the case.

That was good. We have Okay. Good.

Ordered things. But Okay. They just started canceling orders. Something has suddenly been ours. Okay. I see. Yeah. Pay for things to, like, come in. They do. Right. So Okay. It's different than the outside. Yeah. A little different. So it's a little different that way. Yeah. So Okay. I didn't know the goal. Yeah. We wait till we get the products, and then we wait for it. Yeah. Yes. But the I mean, it's just overwhelming for a lot of other vendors to take out. Shocking. Yeah. It is. It is. Yeah. And I have I did mention this. The Wisconsin Library Association conference is starting tomorrow through Friday.

I'll be there. I'm sure this is gonna be a big topic of discussion because they're usually like, our representatives are there. Yeah. Conference as well. So yeah. Just a little addition. Keep you in the know. Mhmm. We're handling I did quite a few tours.

I had some tours. It's been very nice. And during this on our all

set day. It's very nice of her, so

they're looking forward to the invite. Then yep.

Unless anybody had any questions or comments about can statistics or

what is this?

See if I can see if if I I did invite Laura Schreiner. She is our materials associate, works closely with Interlibrary Loan, and that's the topic I wanted her to share if you're ready. Everyone's ready. Thank

you for allowing me the privilege of speaking with you. I'm very passionate about interlibrary law. Libraries in general. This is my career. This is my life, basically. So my family, I've been here forty five years. Mhmm. I can't imagine being anywhere else with a better bunch of people. I am not just seeing that in front of managers. That is the truth that we have the best staff. When the Baker and Taylor system went down, people just jumped into action. They're keeping materials. And you've never seen a Motorola thing when you all of a sudden, you have to ship, and these folks do this. They they do everything well. They cover for each other. They it's unbelievable. I I don't even ever wanna leave.

Mhmm. That's the truth.

I had next conversation on Friday with some people. It's an amazing place to work, and I wanna thank you for all the support you give us to make it, I think, a great place for patrons, certainly a great place for staff, the best it's ever been in the forty five years I've been here. It's a great place

to be. I can't say that at all.

We did have a little bit of a scare recently about the IMLS funding. It was looking like maybe ILL interlibrary law was severely impacted. Fortunately, that didn't happen. It's not the case. It's not the case. Right? I mean, because we weren't hearing anything, and we thought, oh, we're just gonna keep on doing interlibrary loans. I wish I was not. So there was a statement on the WizKat database, which is what our discovery platform. That's where we search for who owns items, and and we begin the process of borrowing.

That statement, when they were trying to draw up support, stated that the Wiscap platform, which is a compilation of all the online calendars in the state and Minnesota, contributes to the nearly 15,000,000 ILO requests performed annually at Library's Cross Wisconsin. There are a lot of things going back and forth. Without the Wiscat platform, we couldn't do what we do. So it was really crucial to keep that. We're keeping it. It's very simple for us. When I started, we used to use teletypes. We had to type everything by hand. Now we just match a good record for a book that someone lost, and it goes from there. Once we say, okay. Let's approve. Send. That's that's what we do if we don't own it or not gonna purchase it. It just goes on its merry way. We really don't intervene until it comes in.

It's crazy easy. I can't tell you how much. Our patrons rely on it. Lots of them are very upset when they realize maybe ILL's gonna be curtailed because it's really important. We we would have still been getting things from our system members, but we would be kinda cut off from the rest of the world, and we rely on that. Book groups rely on it. Teachers rely on it. Your everyday patron has become very used to every library's collection in their collection. Our patrons are their patrons. Every we share. Sharing is just a beautiful thing. And with me, we're looking at maybe we can do it. Was scary. But for now, we're good. I I just can't tell you how important it is to be able to say to people, we don't own it here, but we can get it for

you. Mhmm.

Some of them don't know that, and so when they begin to realize that's possible, you know, it's pretty amazing. Work with tons of book groups, about 30 per month, and that's not including people who take the already made bags. We have a 170 of those. And at any given time, about 30 of those are out, but we're also serving another 30 or so groups that ask for 10 copies of such and such or 10 copies of this. We see a lot of emphasis. People want lots of large print these days, lots of large print. So we serve a ton of book groups. We see the connections they foster with each other. We've seen book groups that go on vacations together, have become family, basically, to each other. It's a great way to connect people is to say, here are some books.

Go ahead and read them, discuss them, bring them back when you're done. There's never there shouldn't be a bummer than anybody having to pay for anything, so we never have

to say, well, if this is

gonna cost you, we never charge anybody for ILL. We can't. It's a state statute. So it's all free. It's an amazing service, and it really just broadens our horizons on that patrons. And, again, I get

to do it with the

best people in the world. I get to work with people who become family.

It doesn't get much better than that.

Our patrons are wonderful. Our managers are wonderful, and we're we're free to achieve and free to do what's in the best interest of the patron. No one has ever yelled at anybody. It's great. It hasn't always been like that everywhere. It's an amazing place to work, and you folks support that. I I've had an intern in last couple of some of us who work with us. I'm still learning from young folks too. You know? We're all learning from each other every day. I learned a ton from our intern. It never stops. You can say I've been here a long time. I've seen it all. No. You've never seen it all. Always wanna see. You're always gonna learn something new. Literally, every day, we learn something new. We're gonna have deaths, freaking in the idea labs, like, fabulous folks do with Wolf Forge and everything. We do so much for

people. And

I'm so lucky to be

part of it, so thank you for making it possible to all

speak a little video. Yeah.

Thank you for everything. Thank you. If you have any questions, I'd love to answer. Otherwise, just just know that your support makes so many things possible to patrons who otherwise might not have resources, and we're happy to help. So thank you.

And thank you, Aurora. Yes. Forty five years are a woman.

Did you start when you were

a child? I I was I started high school.

Library. I bet all of my childhood memories come from that library. Sure.

Because I

didn't work there. But, you know, my childhood was very close to that

library. They're fortunate. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank Thank you, you. Blana. Oh, yeah. New business.

Next, new business starting with personnel committee meeting date. Steph, I know that Karen had sent out an email to committee members with some dates. So I'm thinking we would just wanna get that meeting date figured out today since our timeline deadline, I guess, better word for that is coming up. Yeah.

Hi, all. Sorry. I couldn't be there in person today. My back's out, so I'm laying on the floor with my camera off. But, yes, Karen, me know that November 10 seemed to work for people.

Of the people that responded, that was the date that came out.

Does, say, 05:00 on November 10 work, or we could do earlier the day with this?

Do a little earlier?

We do four?

Four works for me.

I could do 04:30. I don't get off work till four.

Have So work here after work. 04:30. 04:30.

Yep. Works

for me. Michelle's time. On Monday. Yep.

I will do my best.

K. We have a quorum.

But I think you should be okay with if I can't.

I have a quorum, and then it would be on the next agenda to present to the whole board. Just so you know.

Okay. Are we good at 04:30 on November 10?

Yep. Yep. Mhmm.

Great. And, well, can Karen, can we meet in the library room in the boardroom?

Yes. I have it booked just in case.

Awesome. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Steph. Then next 2026 budget timeline in December meeting date. I know that you wanted to talk about that, Karen.

Yes. I did give you the timeline that was attached in a memo. So this was a question anyway of what we wanna do in December for a meeting since the fourth Monday is

The twenty second.

The twenty second. I'll be here. The library will be open. Typically, we don't have a big agenda, so it's kind of seen as if an emergency. But knowing that, we will not have the final budget, 2026 budget, until after our November meeting. So if that plays into, for sure, we wanna have a meeting in December because then you'll see the final budget.

Do we need to take any action on this budget, or is it just gonna be informational?

Technically, it's informational. Okay. The pieces that we're missing are city council approved share numbers. Okay.

May may I jump in?

100%.

Yeah. We we could take action, but it won't change what the numbers are across the street.

Right. Okay.

And since what we're doing is saying, yep. We're working with those numbers now.

Yeah.

It we can do that in December. We we can do that in January, and we're still gonna be okay. So everybody just needs to realize I I think if they were radically

from what we

don't anticipate, at least informing us. So if somebody said, well, I have to go on record on this.

I will know earlier.

So could we just get sent it from you, the budget, and then we'll all look at it, and then we can just not meet? Would that be okay? Then we can all look at it in December, or would that not be appropriate?

It will be available as part of the city council if you're interested in going out.

Yeah. The merit doesn't present its budget now until November 4

is the first look at it. Okay.

How far ahead of time do we need to declare whether or not we're meeting in December?

Legally? Yeah. Yeah. Legally, you must provide twenty four hour notice, and you can't change then. So so because it's a Monday meeting, it would be Friday at end of business, which for the city right now is 11:30.

Friday at eleven. Yeah. Yes. So we could wait until after the November meeting.

After the November meeting. Yeah. Or make a decision.

Because then by that time, we may know what the budget's outlook is gonna be. And if it's drastically different, we can meet. If it's not drastically different, we don't need to. Mhmm.

That's right. Agreed. I want you be super transparent. Yeah. Yeah. Think about the timeline and everything.

I don't anticipate a chat personally.

Right. Okay.

Yeah. That's just based on what I read.

So I'll still report again at the November 27 meeting. Thank you. Perfect. And then we really should try to make a decision about December. So you guys can plan accordingly. Perfect.

Looks like the notice of public meetings went out, late on Friday at 11:00. Oh, okay. 11:10 is when Cheryl sent it out. So that's as long as we hit that time Mhmm.

Get it

on Cheryl's email, we're good.

So we really have not.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So wait. He's I'm there's too many dates for the market. So the mayor's budget's gonna be done on what day? What was his name?

It won't be done. It'll be present his his framework will be presented next week. Okay. The finance committee. Okay. The finance committee will then discern and then visit. Yeah.

It's it's I copied and pasted in there. So Okay. November 4 Tuesday, November 4 is the first book with the finance committee. It's a journal. It's be a year.

December meeting. It should Right here.

December meeting will be the goal.

And then the actual yes. So then they use November to have some meetings. Okay. And then December 1, there's a special council meeting to approve the budget. And then December 15 meeting is really the approval.

I think that first should be it. It's approved, special council If if the council votes

Oh, that's a full council?

That's not just finance? Okay. Hang on. I believe that's the

full council. I think there's special council.

Well, because you can yep. They can call

those meetings. Call a special voting. I think there was financer that say that.

Because if you copy and pasted it, it's probably full council. Yes. Yes. Would have.

I just I don't remember if we received that. Maybe you can request

yet. Probably not. So I'm sorry.

It is not on my calendar yet. But Okay. So you're telling me something I didn't know? I like it. No.

It's it's Don't shoot

the rest

of the day.

Well, you said December 1?

Yes.

Which is interesting because that's the same day as personnel committee. So I don't know if they would do it for

We said that we would know for sure by the end of this meeting on December 1 whether or not we'd to meet.

Right. That's a council meeting, though. That's not a library meeting. Right. Yeah.

Okay. But you would, like, be able to tell if the numbers were horribly different like Chris was saying. You needed to do something. Okay. So we don't You

should know most you should know most of that after the mayor presents it.

Okay.

Okay. November, you'll know the framework of it.

Yes. Okay. Yeah. I'll know more at our November meeting. And then I'm it's just not official official. Right. So city council understand. Counts too many genes. There's no action on that one. Oh, yeah.

That's right. Any further discussion on that? K. Then moving to our next item, c, Manitoba Public Library fee schedule. Also a memo that we have. I

do want

want to explain a little bit before there's any issue.

I did wanna bring this forward now in preparation that number one, our budget hasn't really been approved yet. So this is still in preparation. But number two, I didn't think maybe we would be ready to vote for sure. So I thought I'd bring it forward and knowing that maybe some people might wanna think about it more, and we could also do it in November as well. So this fee schedule is what we charge the public.

So it's it's everything listed here is is what we charge the public. So for 2026, it would be removing fines as the budget showed. And then there is because of that loss of revenue, the thought is to increase photocopying and printing, which I have there, black and white to 20¢ per page and then color for 50¢ per page. And in other thinking about, you know, that loss of revenue of fines, it it's just a suggestion, and it doesn't need to be part of it because we haven't talked about it before, but I thought I would bring it forward as a suggestion and an option that other libraries would do is including a processing fee when materials are lost or damaged. So not only are you paying for just the item that we bought to circulate, but you are paying for the, you know, the labor and the materials that went into that item being able to circulate.

Just bring it forward.

Discussion questions, Margaret?

I just need a question.

Okay. Like, if I lose a book, which has happened lots of times to my family, and we get that bill, we pay it, obviously. And that would that include, like is that the exact cost library report, or does that include, like, that fancy little clear cover you have and all the stickers and all the others?

As it stands today Yes. It does not include anything except the cost of the book or or the piece of material. Same book, but that's just one type of material that we have.

Okay. Because, like, I was talking to these new people that I met from Bulgaria, and they actually charge three times the cost of the book for any lost item in their library or the cost of the material because it's considered disrespectful to lose something that belongs to the community, which I thought was like, wow. But, anyway, I think that $2 concern, we do have to pay for those little

You have to pay for book processing. Yes? Like, if there's stickers and jacket and everything else.

Well and it takes time to do that. My question is how long is a book

how long is it before a book is considered lost? Sure.

We get the library gets to set that. And right now, we have it set. This was part of our conversation talking about fines. But right now, I'm just gonna use an example of a twenty one day checkout, so a book. And this is if there are no renewals on. So you check out an item for twenty one days, three weeks, and somebody else has a hold on it, so you can't redo it. You get it for three weeks, and then at that, the next day starts another five weeks, thirty five days. Right? Right. My understanding.

Yes. Yes. So then there's another thirty five days before you get it's changed to considered lost. Does that make sense? Mhmm. So you but you're accruing fines during that. If you bring the item back as it stands today, if you bring the item back even after it's considered lost, then the charge of the amount of the book goes away. Because you've returned the item, we get to use it. You return it in good enough condition that it can circulate. You don't have to pay for the the item, but you do, as it's CNC day, pay that fine still.

Mhmm. If it's been six months as lost, It's been gone. That's considered so much time that we consider that you can't even bring it back at this point. We've gone through purchasing again Right. Because there's no hold on it. So we want other people to be so at that point, it's yours, and you need to pay at this point. So we are we are hoping to if everything goes as planned in 2026, no fines, we're gonna move that up to two weeks. You have you have something for three weeks, and it's not returned by the due date, you get another two weeks before we're gonna charge you with a bill and pay for it.

Rather than five weeks.

Rather than five weeks.

So at this point, as it stands, at five weeks, you consider it lost, and you start the process for a replacement?

That's the bill until Eight weeks. The bill. Yeah. That means that means the person's actually getting the bill. Okay. Up until that point, they were just accruing fine. Okay. And getting reminders to But they get a bill. At that point, it's their billed for the item.

At what point do you give up and replace the material? It depends

on the item. It's a it's a it's flexible.

Yeah. But you don't wait six months if there's a hold, and it's an in demand material. It's like at five weeks, you're like, okay. It's not back. This is in demand. We're replacing it.

We will.

I was just curious how fast. Item into the patient's hands as fast

as we can. It's good way or another. Decision making. Sure. Just curiosity. But once you get the last thing in the

mail, if you think, oh my goodness. I thought I returned the one pimple and we bring it to Liver the next day, it's like like you said, you just need to buy. We're not charging people for $50 for this. You know?

I was just curious if you waited that six months until it was recoverable. But, no, you don't if it's as long as it's It depends on the item. Right?

Yeah. Right. Because it's a desirable item. Most of

the titles you have, You have more copies

of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Curious. So

if you're ready to vote, someone can make a motion to adapt the fee schedule as presented, or I will bring it forward again. Because if we do wanna prepare for 2026, that's how we're gonna charge. Yes.

Clarifying question? Yes. Your preference is for us to look it over, think it over, and be ready to vote on it next month.

I thought that would be best considering I'm just now putting forward the option of a processing fee. Okay. Maybe there might be more questions and more thoughts about that.

The act the thing we will be voting on is the addition of the processing fee, the updating of the cost of photocopying, and the moving up of the five weeks to two weeks. That's not really

a note. That's not really a That's just our first

I was trying to call, like, as well

for It

would be adapting the fee schedule with the changes Okay. For 2026.

Okay. And the removal of fines.

And the removal of Which includes Right.

The removal. We

we And if

we wanna remove the fines, then it would would it stay then at a dime and

a quarter? Then we would have

to adjust our budget because the budget already took away that revenue. Yeah. I'm I'm saying the fact like, the fee schedule, we have to reflect. Right. That we're not charging patrons anymore Mhmm. For fines. Yeah. Yeah.

I think the issue is without that fine revenue, how do we balance?

Right.

Right? Where does it come from?

Now I know we had talked about Yep. Because we think those are about the market ranges for printing, copying, We had talked about looking at what do other people around here charge.

Karen did find that. Right? We have

I thought we had talked about it.

Just don't remember.

We did talk about it last month, and our pricing is below OfficeMax. Below any for profit place that you can go. Other libraries, I think, are are

In that ballpark? Yes. But

this would offset the the reductive taking away the fees. This adjustment would offset Just

refine. That's fine.

How much how many lost materials are there? Like, how much money do you think this $2 process would be would like, what's your guess? How much money would we make off that?

It'll be per item. So if you wanna look at our current where we're at currently with the revenue

Mhmm. It is on the

like, no. I don't want it. Page 12. So not the very last page, but page 12 of twenty eight ten. It's not the foundation. And it says lost damaged materials right in the middle. We say that we're gonna bring in 3,000. We have so far brought in $4,344. So if per item, you add on two you know what I'm saying?

Not Then it comes the states for,

know, people. Mean, one item can cost $200 because it's in our toy library, or it can be a paper bag cost $3.99. Mhmm. I there's no I can't tell you how many items that is. Oh, I

was just kinda wondering how much revenue worth they could bring in from that $2. That was

I'm hoping that because just again, just by looking at Yeah. Statistically, we always hit this 3,000 mark. I'm hoping it would double it is our thought.

Okay. So we would get, like, another $3,000 for doing this $2?

Hit $6,000 just on that revenue line. Yes. Okay.

Overrefined tools again? In the past? Whatever.

$12,000, which we've already oh, no. We're at 9,400. Oh, we are at $7,750 of copies, photocopy now printing.

So this would be a pain if we didn't go ahead with I I'm not a fan of taking away fees. I feel that we're teaching our fines. I feel that we're teaching people that they don't need to be responsible. That's how I personally feel. I know that some of them might feel differently than that. But right now, even in our public schools, we're not teaching kids. They don't have to pay for anything lost. We have playways that are worth $75, and if they lose them, the parents don't have to pay. It's not I just I feel that we I don't know. That's just I personally feel I don't agree with taking away the fines, but that's you know? It's also a

little tricky because you're taking away the fines, but then you're adding the cost into something else, like printing Right.

And

photocopying. I know that's a choice thing,

but, like, losing a material. And I I mean, I know losing sorry. Losing versus sorry. Losing versus the buying Just late. Yeah. Late. It is a true I

kind of am on the fence with it too as well.

You know

what you get? If it's not a brand new item, you can renew it again. I mean, you have it for twenty one days,

and you can renew it

pretty easily. I mean and that's just you know? Again, it's my opinion. And don't you feel that more people check out books and maybe don't return the books right away more than people photocopy?

Do you get a lot of people that photocopy? I mean, I you had your you had your We're making almost $8,000. I know. I'm photocopied and printing.

Well, we don't know what we're making on photocopying and printing because there's

That's the revenue. That's the revenue. That's the revenue.

I think that well, I I understand, like, the frustration of people and, like, keeping them accountable. I also think that by taking away these fees, we're creating less barriers. Like, you have a single mom who doesn't have a lot of money, and and they have these fees accruing. You know, they either will have a lot of fees sitting there that don't get paid or because they can't pay them or they'll stop using the library because they can't con you know, they can't pay the fees.

So I just wanna be really careful that we're talking about fines. Yes. So that's only that's only about being late. Yes. Yes. That's the only We're

still keeping people accountable for

for damaging beyond circulation, they have to pay for it and not never bringing something back. They are also accountable for it. Yes. And, also, a piece of this is if your bill, total bill, is over $10, you lose your borrowing privileges. So, again, that's keeping people accountable. But as soon as you've not brought something back after just that two week window and you're charged, you could lose the privilege of borrowing anything else until you either return it or pay. So there's

still a mode of accountability.

So there's still some okay. Yes. I would say there's very much accountability there that you abide by the borrowing privilege established by the library and the library board. Yes. Yes.

Yes. It's no surprise to anybody how I feel about if you borrow something, since it's a public item, you have a responsibility to bring it back. Mhmm. K? And I have never been bothered by having fines for stuff that's, like, never bothered me at all. It never will bother.

Mhmm.

However, the one thing that does change this for us, whether we like it or not, is the fact that we in I think in the entire MCLS, and Calumet, we're the only ones charging late fees. That's true. Yeah. I know. So what insanely and I don't understand how you have something late because you have this goofy thing, and all you have to do is press a button to renew it now.

Correct. Right.

I don't understand how. Even I can't have my books come back later anymore. It's that easy. But the goofy thing that happens is people will actually come to our library and use this to order our books to another library where they don't charge late fees to avoid getting the late fees. And to me, that's just nutty. And people have admitted that they do it. And to me, that's just silly. If they're here and the book is here, how crazy is it for system right now

that tells them to our circulation as well.

Yeah. Mhmm.

That's

crazy. So in my view, if we have another way with without inappropriately raising while we are increasing fees, we're not increasing fees here to to make up for that lost revenue. We're increasing these fees because they've stayed low. You know? And and the other thing I would say is my entire time here, the projection for late fees has always been higher than what we collect. And we've been whittling that down for years, and we still have never hit the number that we project. It's all we always project a number in there that's bigger than what we ever bring in.

It's been

very close. Yeah. We're getting

it because in case

you bring

it down to it. Yeah. 12 is But,

like, right now, we're at nine. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. So And that's through September. So we're back to September.

So I get it. I think people should be responsible. I think restructuring other stuff encourages them to still be accountable and responsible for what they get because giving giving them fifty days, you know, seems generous even to me who misplaces stuff quite easily.

What do you think this $2 processing fee is, I think, an interesting and very actually equitable and fair idea given that there's a cost, like you were saying, to process it with the Rubbery Bank library. Do you think that this $2 isn't all related to the actual cost, or how'd you come up with that number? What was your formula or your thinking, or did you look at a library? How did you come up with

Looking at other libraries and just thinking not wanting to be too outlandish with it. Mhmm. It wasn't a science, though. Okay. So do you I can say Brown County does 500.

Okay. Do you think that it accurately request represents the actual cost of the of putting it back to circulation, or do you think that it's very low or very high? Or is it, like, actually, like, amount? You know what

I'm asking? Yes. I do. Meredith, did you

I would say it depends on the item.

Sure. So, like, some items cost more

process than other items. And instead of charging a different price for each item, which is not a reasonable thing, I think $2 is fair. Okay.

As the average. As an average across the board.

So it just depends. Like, it costs more to get books on CD ready for circulation than it does a a romance paperback or a paperback, trade paperback. It just, you know, it just depends. So this is a

Some kids, you know, we have Yeah. Old tubs and a lot of items in there, And then there's a paper bag. Yep. But you put a shiny label on plastic. And It varies. Smooth way. I I will admit, though, that it that we didn't do extensive research and, you know, try to come to a science about it.

Okay. So I think it's very riskable.

Brett?

So that was gonna be my question. So thank you, Margaret, for asking that about how do we come up with the $2 versus $3 versus whatever

Yeah.

It's gonna be. I agree with Pam. I'm not a fan of taking the the fines away for that. But to the point of Chris, if you tighten it up and I think if we tighten up our other process, he's I can say fine. I think the printing is regardless. That should be adjusted whether or not we had

Right. Right.

Okay. Because the because the expense of just the machines themselves and the maintenance on those and the time it takes to keep them

Paper and the ink.

And, yeah, and to keep them active for the individuals that need them, think I it's reasonable to adjust that expense regardless of what

we do with fines.

But but thank you for that. I I would agree. And if that means we can tighten up the processes so when they then I'm then I'm I I'd be fine with

it. Okay.

So should can we just vote on this, or is there any reason to

You guys can make a motion. Make a motion.

Okay. And I move that we accept the Manitowoc Public Library fee schedule as written in Kristen's memo from today.

Okay.

Okay. And I don't know why

I said Kristen. I'm sorry.

Karen's memo from today, and then

Alright. We have a motion.

Do we have a second? I'll second. Any discussion?

And more discussion. Alright.

All those in favor? I.

Opposed? Nay. K. One nay, and it passes.

Great. That finishes up new business and moving on to old business, starting with the grant update for our computer area and business center.

You have an attachment for the renovation of these?

Yes. I

wanted to keep you informed what's happening, and it's just, you know, happening this week. I stole our signage downstairs because I wanna make sure you could see the updated renderings

of

what's happening. And we I'm gonna put it back down there. Yeah. And it's and it's here in an attachment for you. But that's the signage that's downstairs. We have something on our website trying to communicate. So there's the disruption to to the public about their area where they like to sit and do things. It it just has to happen temporary temporary disruption for the for the long term. Any questions there? So This is this

is on target for timeline? Did you say that? I'm sorry.

Our timeline is when when it happens. Okay. So but we do have electrical happening November 3 and carpeting happening September 17. We have ordered the furniture. Okay. So that's just, you know, when the furniture can get delivered. Okay. Looking at forty before the end of the year if we if we're lucky, but it would be quickly beginning next year. Okay. Any questions on that happening? We're all very excited.

So the old furniture wouldn't be used until this December, or is the old furniture all gone?

No. It's there. Okay. That's what I thought. It was still there. Okay.

Alright. Yeah. Sounds good.

Anything else on the 1st Floor renovation update? Alright. Then library HVAC project update and facility and building updates with CC.

That's my favorite thing on

the issue.

And I still have some more jobs. Yes. After that,

after this, we do have.

Yes. Thank you.

So, yeah, Update on HVAC, we're working closely with the two contractors, shelves for the mechanicals and EC and D for the controls. EC and D, by the way, was the original installer back in '98 when we installed our system. So they're very familiar. Like I said, we're working closely with them, which house the rooftop unit has already been ordered. They're building it now to our specifications, weight, and all that stuff inside. So that's already in the mix. And then we're meeting with ECND weekly. We're going through sequence of operations. As it tells you, you know, when it's this coldness from it'll engage. And if it's if it's too warm in one room, it'll change the direction of the airflow.

So that has to be put in the right number of sequences. So the software, it's all gonna be brand new. It's not gonna be the DOS or where I add it to it individually. So it'll be all all out automated stuff. It'll be very nice. So that's the HVAC. Any questions about the HVAC? The unit should be, I think, finished by December. And depending on weather, they can work in the wintertime, and they can pull up our old one and let the other the new one now. Another condition by Jane.

Just gonna. Yeah.

Okay. Okay.

And then we're doing interviews for the open maintenance specialist position this week. I thank Meredith for being my wing person and doing the team interviews, which is nice having a different view and having another voice asking the questions. And usually that when you bounce back and forth because we'll ask questions, follow ups on top of each other, which works out really well. So this whole week, and then we'll close them all, and all the best one. At the top. Anybody cross your fingers.

Do you

have candidates? Like, you imagine bad

people? Yeah. No. Just this whole week will

be doing a few.

Okay. Continue lighting in the Rotunda Of Children's. Kinda doing bits and pieces downstairs, and we're coming up and rewiring the ring on the rotunda. They're doing the big spots that are up in that big dome part too. So and then we'll talk about that, but we're gonna talk about the.

What's happening?

A lot is happening.

Any other questions?

Yes. You did elsewhere. You

Alright then. Just the last item that

was added, email. Email update. I know. So we are the whole city is moving to Office 365. You guys are on Office 365.

But because the rest of the city is moving, We have to remove you and put you on another tenant. Remove you from this tenant. It's IT talk. Remove you from over here from the tenant that you are on, and then you're gonna be placed a little bit in a holding pattern until the migration happens over to this other tenant. So that is going to disrupt the web based Office three sixty five. So you will only have access through an app, an Outlook app, which is for a while, but it could be a few weeks. And this is gonna happen to all the elders.

I do mine through the app anyways.

Alright. So you will not see a disruption at all. I do too,

but I've had problems with it. Yeah. You see? It's got this weird function

that, like, seem to be eliminated. Oh. I am just saying that Okay. If you communicated only through web based one No. It's elevated. That is gonna become unavailable soon Mhmm. For several weeks. Okay. So and I'm not sure about anybody else. I don't know exactly how you guys access the email. What I'm asking then is if would it be appropriate to be able to use your personal email, and it would be going just me communicating to you, and don't do correspondence back and forth until Yeah.

Oh, until the time is until the

tenants are straightened out and and it's more Sure. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

I just don't know how that how that works for any open records laws. So if you had an open records request that those emails aren't sitting on that's sitting on a personal server, that's

Right. And the the whole reason I'm sorry for jumping in. Please. The whole reason we ended up down this road in the first place was that very concern because the library, everybody used to use their personal emails. Yeah. And I I pointed out if you're using your personal emails to communicate back and forth, the problem is your whole personal email becomes searchable

Yeah.

When somebody does a FOIA request.

Yeah.

Now if if we're following as the director is suggesting, she uses our personal emails to notify us while the tenant and I thank you for telling me I don't have to understand it as IT talk. I really honestly appreciate that. If while this transition is taking place, then if the only thing we're doing is getting notified by you. And if we have communication, we can do it by calling Yeah. Then it doesn't become something what they would have to any request then would be fulfilled by giving them the director's email of communication out because we have all agreed not to communicate back in on our personal email.

Right?

Right. Well, that that's all that's all well and good until somebody does.

Yes. I would I would just did

you run this past Eric?

I tried to, but I wasn't able to get I was just like

I would just caution until anybody till we use personal that you run it past Eric.

Okay. Here's here's the caveat.

And you are correct. When somebody does it, they

poison that one.

Well, here's the caveat is that for Alders, we we provide you with an iPad.

Correct.

Don't do that.

I get it.

So for somebody who does not have a app based phone Right. How are we supposed to communicate?

100% get it. I just said I don't run it past Eric before you yeah.

I just don't know what else to do.

Yeah. Yeah. I get it.

So you're suggesting we should all get at this?

I yes. A 100%. If we're asking you to communicate in this way

Yeah. I be providing you with I know. I'm just having a

little fun. And then we would have a little bit more access to help you.

Can't you on a but on a on a device, if you have if you have Office the Office Suite already on your computer, you can use the Outlook through the the app on your computer. You don't have to go to a web based as long as you have because that's what I do on my personal computers. I just use the Outlook app on my computer.

We could, but I don't know what you guys have at home. Right.

Right. So I'm saying

if you have that I don't have an AC. I have

a Chromebook, and then I have an iPhone that doesn't play nice.

Yeah. Right.

The iPhone does not like the Outlook Yeah. App. It really hates it.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. That's And the Chromebook, I don't.

Like, it doesn't play nice either.

Weird. Yeah. I would just say ask Eric before we make that. Because they said just one per it takes one person to

reply. Delivery.

Yeah. That's all I get. So It's

not just We know when. This is what may happen.

And then I go in, like, I

have not been to.

Sometimes it does update. I know.

Yes. I'm

not an attorney, and I won't pretend.

Yes. I completely agree. I immediately had concerns. Right? And my hands are pretty tight. Yeah. So, I mean, agenda information is available through the city's website. Yeah. And I think I can the communication today can be that I will run-in communication as much as possible, knowing that you're able to see agenda items and things like that and all attachments through the city's website.

You know and

you know when meetings are. So

Go back to calling.

Right. Yeah. What

in the old old days, we actually did.

So everybody. November 10 is the personnel committee meeting, and that does have to be in person. It's specifically for my review, so it's gonna go immediately into closed session, and nothing's attached. So there's that piece. And then the next board meeting is November 22. Let's make sure everybody knows that now. If I learn anything different from Eric's help.

What's the next board meeting? November 27.

Thanksgiving. That's six That's okay. So '24. So the Monday before Thanksgiving. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. In my head. November 24. November 24.

That's a regular. Yep. Yep.

You I'm just you just might not have access to your email at that time. So

So if there's any, like like,

the personnel meeting or something like

that between meeting corresponds, we just can't

make it. There wouldn't really be correspondence because it's or it has to be a club session. Yeah. Yeah. I mean Yeah. Okay.

If it had to be canceled

or rescheduled or something, call it.

Yeah. Send it.

Phone calls or text.

Yeah. Yep. Okay. Got it. Just wanna make sure.

It'd be old school communications. Hopefully, that doesn't happen. Anything further? Alright.

Then I'll be looking for a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Second. All in favor? Aye. We are adjourned. Thanks.