Common Council - workshop

Council, today marks the beginning of our 2027 budget process with the workshop. You have in front of you a proposed 2027 budget with approximately $16.5 million, representing a little over a 2% increase over 2026's approved budget. Excluding debt service, the budget is increasingly a little over 1%. Not a whole lot to see in this budget because it's very flat. Throughout the course of last year and this year, we've had lots of conversations about Senate Enrolled Act 1, which was adopted and signed by the governor. in 2025. That legislation adopted pretty sweeping changes with regards to property taxes. That bill implements changes in property tax calculations over approximately a five-year period. So between 2025 through approximately 2030, we will be incorporating those statutory changes And as we've talked about before, our budget is very, very flat. We're doing our best to continue maintaining the exceptional services that we deliver every single day, rain or shine, 24 hours a day. One of the vehicles that was also adopted in 2025 but then was amended in 2026 was a process for the adoption of local income taxes. A new local income tax is being created through that bill that is intended to provide replacement revenue from the revenue that's being lost with the property tax reform. The disconnect with regards to the property tax reform is it's implemented over a five-year period. But the new local income tax will not be adopted by council until the summer of 2028, will not go into effect until January of 2029, and will not essentially generate proceeds until 2030. The conversations that we will have with regards to the local income tax are going to be very, very important. Between now and, per the law, October the 1st, all the municipalities and the county are supposed to participate in a meeting arranged by the county called MUS, which is a Municipal Unit Strategic Task Force meeting. unit strategic task force in order to discuss local income taxes and whether or not the municipalities, which in this instance would be Hanover and Madison, would work with Jefferson County in adopting a single rate to cover all of our needs with regard to these budget changes plus discussions particularly on public safety and EMS. That meeting hasn't happened yet. I believe that Jefferson County intends to do that after they get further along into their 2027 budget process. But it is a requirement that we report to DLGF and the state legislature by October the 1st. The results of that, those meetings and whether or not a non-binding agreement would be entered into by the municipalities and the county. So we still have a lot of work to do with regards to identifying replacement revenue. And essentially what this is doing, as we've talked about, is it's shifting from a local government support, primarily being properties taxes, which would be homesteads, non-homestead, multifamily, and commercial and industrial properties. Instead of that being the primary source of supporting local governments, it'll shift now over between property taxes and local income taxes. Unfortunately, what that means is in some instances, our local income taxes are going to go up. So anybody that lives in Madison that has a job, Madison, Jefferson County, Hanover, that has a job will be paying a local income tax like they do now. There's a little over a 1% local income tax, but per the legislation, that number could double. In fact, it could go up almost 3%. we have to do the financial modeling and discuss those between the units of government on whether or not we can adopt a single rate or Whether each of us will adopt our own municipal rate so lots of work still to do on that and like I said That's a process that is going to take us through the summer of 2028 before it's adopted and Several years past that before the revenues actually created along the way What we've been doing is identifying all opportunities to increase our revenue and either hold our expenses flat or reduce expenses. It's very, very difficult to reduce our expenses. There's very little in this 2027 budget that's truly discretionary. I believe that our staffing level at 106 full-time employees is barely adequate to cover all the demands of the day-to-day with the city. But we are not projecting any growth or any new employees, full-time employees. There may be some part-time employees there. We're basically staying even. A couple changes in this budget that we'll get into later. will be how we're accounting for salaries and benefits, trying to ease that administration of it. And then the other thing is park bond for 2027. It's been 37 years since City of Madison issued a park bond that was pretty ambitious back in 1989. And coincidentally, the park bond that's needed today is to support and revitalize those parks that were created in 1989. And so we can go through that in greater detail if we have time tonight. I can go through the financial plan. but I actually have a full presentation on the park investments. I believe I've talked with each of the council members about our needs, our capital investment needs, and our key initiatives and priorities. Last year we adopted a food and beverage tax and a wheel tax. 2027 will be the first year in which we will have a full year of collections with the food and beverage tax. That is working out very well and is dedicated 100% to supporting park investments, which are extremely critical for our community. The will tax will support our road investments. And as I've expressed before in previous meetings, I'm very concerned about the CCMG program. It's only going to be $100 million for 2027. We need to spend at least $1 million a year on roads to do one-tenth of the work that our asset management plan calls for. But we're continuing to do that and hone in on it, and we'll apply for the max, which is $1 million CCMG, utilizing our will tax plus CCMG funding if we do get it. It's a very competitive program now, and it's oversubscribed. Last year they did us, or for 2026, there were probably $200 million to $300 million of applications for $100 million of funding. they did approve a special allocation of $75 million, which allowed us to do our 2026 CCMG program, but I'm not sure that that's going to be sustainable going forward. Uh, the way we want to do the meeting tonight is we have several of our department heads here who, uh, manage pretty large budgets, uh, police and fire parks in particular. Uh, as I said, the budget is pretty flat. We'd like to go through the budget and answer any questions that you might have. And, uh, If we need to go beyond tonight, I think we also have tomorrow. See, we're just coming back here tomorrow. If we need tomorrow to work through the rest of the workshop. From a timing perspective, what happens after tonight and tomorrow night? is that surely many, myself, will distill all this budget down into the proper DLGF forms. There'll be a notice to taxpayers form that would be created and then published on Gateway. And I believe that we would expect to... Come back at our September 22nd city council meeting for the first reading and public hearing of the budget with an adoption October the 6th. Everything needs to be approved by council and the mayor by November the 2nd, I believe, input into Gateway within a week after that, I believe. Is that right, Shirley?

Yes, your testimony.

Your testimony. So, yeah, I believe that's correct.

So we'll have a chunk of time after this week until when we get to the council to adopt it September 22nd. But just keep in mind that we'll have to finalize this, get it into a notice of taxpayer form. That's got to be published about 10 days before we have the actual council meeting where the public hearing would be for any comments anybody might have with regard to our budget. But that's the timetable, and that's the overview.

I have a couple, just general, if that's okay. Yeah, go ahead. First of all, I wanted to remind you that this is a proposal, and it's going to change. Little things here and there are going to move around. We're still – we just received estimates. I mean, they were coming in until the last couple of days. So we've done the best we could at estimating. We know things are going to change, and nothing major, but just, you know, things –

are going to move around a little bit.

At some point, you have to call a stop to it and start printing and sending it out so people can look at it. Also, like the salary ordinance, I know I already need to make some changes because Brian Jackson, we had not adjusted his salary bands to include his increase for employees. So that document is going to change for you. As we run through this, We're probably not going to go line by line because it really didn't change overall. But if you have questions for the department heads, they'll be up here to answer those for you. Keep in mind that the relatively flat budget that's slightly increased includes a 3% increase in our benefits, which is a large number, and I put in a 15% increase for our property casualty insurance. I don't know where that's going to come in, but I budgeted 15%. So there's increases in things that we can't control in there, and it's still relatively flat.

I would just close with my opening remarks in saying that this is still a good budget. It allows us to provide what I believe are exceptional services. It still allows us to make proper investments. We have lots of infrastructure investments that are already past the planning stages and have already been funded. So we're happy that, and that's a priority for our administration to continue to be able to make As Mindy said, you might see some things in here you've got questions about. I would just say that if they're minor or if it's a miscalculation or something, point it out to us, particularly if it's significant, and we'll just go through and do this. But I do want to take time, if we have time tonight, to talk about the park investment strategy and give you a good preview of what that looks like. But we'll have opportunity later to just do a full presentation because I think it deserves at least an hour of conversation to talk about priority park investments for 2027. And that's on top of continuing to do the Main Street revitalization and the other parks that we have already broken ground on. I'll pause there. Anybody have questions for me on kind of the prelude to everything? If not, we'll get started.

Is it okay if I just make a quick thank you? Thank you to you, Bob. Thank you to you, Mindy. This is just a huge undertaking that you guys put this together, and I know it's a months-long process, and I've enjoyed being a part of it and just observing this for the last two years. So thank you guys for your hard work.

What she's really saying is this is her last budget. That's true. And she's, but thank you. Thank you for your help too, Shirley. We're just, honestly, we're at the beginning stages of getting it all distilled for, uh, for adoption.

All right. We're going to start with parks, um, because Tanya has a, has to go tonight. So we're going to get her in there first. And mayor, I will remind you, uh, there is a new position in parks, one full time, one part time. Okay. Um, that we talked about early on. So, um, That is in the parks budget. So come on up. Let's start with Park General. Is that the easiest thing to do? Parks, I'll start with. Parks does have all of their employees that are in Parks General. we did not put that in common council that depending on where the levees fall and how much revenue is in each levee I have to balance that out so parks has their own salaries benefits FICA perf longevity and benefits in their budget other than that can you run real quickly through what changes we made in the general budget yeah

So every single person that works in the Parks Department is included in that lump number one line there?

Parks General.

Unless they are at Sunrise, at Crystal, or at the Campground. Okay.

And that does include, like Mindy said, an additional full-time maintenance position.

And let's point out that really we're just filling a maintenance position that was never filled. Like That's correct. Mr. Cosby took another job and we've never hired that new person. We're not asking for an additional. We're asking to replace the person that's gone.

That's correct.

The lump sum, there's no breakdown.

I do have the breakdown. I can send it to you. I did not put it on this sheet.

Yes, please.

Yes, I will do that.

You say there are no changes, but last year your budget was two pages long and now it's a half a page, so Obviously all those positions, but there have to be some other.

I combine stuff to make it easier for them as they're paying bills.

Okay.

So if it's general operating, it's one line for operating expenses. Supplies is one line. Utilities. Okay.

And remember part of that tactic was having fewer appropriations numbers because we were having to make a lot of adjustments because some of these appropriation lines were like $500. Okay. Well, you spent $600. Now you're having to transfer $100, and so that's why some of these numbers are combined. I like that idea. You don't have really de minimis amounts.

And I see a reduction overall of about $74,000. So are we saying that nothing was moved into food and beverage that used to be in this category?

We did move stuff around. Let me look.

Do you want to move to fab and see what that was?

I mean, I have fab ready to go too.

Before you go on FAB, I noticed we don't have a 2027 park liability insurance.

I took that out and I have what I believe will be the whole premium in Common Council. There was no point in inflating their budget for money that we've got elsewhere.

Where did you move telephone and postage? Did that go to

It just got lumped into park supplies. Well, the postage did. We haven't had a telephone bill for a couple years, so we weren't using it. So I'm not sure which department it ends up coming out of, but since we hadn't used it, we just zeroed it out.

We have general utility lines and telephone lines, and Brian Jackson pays the Verizon bill, so I don't ask questions.

He has more money than us.

You tell me what you want to do. You want to go to Fab or you want to go through Campground, Sunrise, Crystal, real quick, before we do that.

It doesn't matter. And let's go to Fab just because I got them all marked.

Okay.

I have this sheet you gave me. Do you want me to print my copies? You can.

Is that just me?

It's probably going to be the FICA-PERF that's included in there. But it's everything. So it's FICA-PERF longevity and their benefits.

Is that also the full-time and part-time person that you talked about earlier?

That's in general, right?

Oh, yes.

Is that where we did that?

Yes. I think that's what you're talking about, right, Josh, that there's an increase. I think it's because you talked about that other, those two new people.

Christian went to make copies of the breakdown. We'll have that for you here.

Josh, where do you see that number from last year?

Oh, of all the different positions? Okay. Well, if they're hidden, it's because they're lumped in to another line. Yes, and I want to

people who are managing their budgets to know what is included in each line but it doesn't need to be included in the in the total and again I will go through I will go back through before we finalize everything and rerun salary numbers, the benefit numbers, and make sure that we're where we need to be.

Are we actually adding someone?

We are adding a full-time. Well, it's not an actual add, as Carla said.

You said before that it was a position that was never filled. Yeah. So the number from 25 should be, or 26 should be included in 27, right?

I don't remember last year if we budgeted for that position. I don't think we did because we had to cut Park General, so we took it out.

Oh, they just didn't fill it. Right. I got it now. It clicked. Got it.

Yeah. And I apologize for one thing.

As you're looking at the comparisons, the comparisons don't work right because I deleted the lines when I moved them into Common Council instead of just zeroing them, so that's on me. I apologize.

That's okay. It's just easier for us to compare and see where the cuts are. Yep. Wouldn't we go line by line? So really we're just adding, we are adding a part-time person to parks. We're refilling the full-time that never got filled, but we're adding an additional part-time.

I believe that part-time person is to help Christian, is that right?

Maintenance, yeah. Yeah, there's a difference between adding and filling.

Right.

Got it.

I just got a question on this. So in all reality, I look at this and it looks like we're adding the salary, the fire care, longevity benefits this year to this budget where we didn't last year. It's not showing.

really is going down because it was 151.5 last year and so you're basically saying it's 125.2 that you're asking for this year because we would have the salary and stuff in other areas i'm not saying we're not increasing there but if i just look at the budget without the salaries is that accurate we're actually going to go down that's where the comparison got messy josh if you look at last year's budget workbook it's 730.

is the amount from last year, not 151, because those lines got deleted out.

Okay.

Yeah, and some of that was moved to FAB. So still not an increase, according to this.

Yeah, which is... I'm a little surprised, because I feel like our parks have, we've had increased numbers. You're seeing an increase in park supplies, needed you know more manpower um you know so you got some little increases here and there but i'm just surprised i guess maybe it's because the insurance is not showing on this and it would normally show that would be i guess the the big difference but no i mean it i'm just amazed i expected it to actually go up a little bit more but kudos to you guys if you can keep it down and i will tell you on that salary thing he just gave you the line that says nick

That's two positions there. That's him and then the additional position. It's the part full timeline. So he's 40 and we budgeted 45. Does that make sense?

Are we good to go over to food and beverage, guys?

Patrick, you good?

All right, Tanya, so let's go to food and beverage.

There are part of the park operating expenses that we have moved here. So you guys just let me know what questions you have.

You want to talk about the lease and purchase of other equipment?

Sure. So we budgeted here the lease for all of the new equipment we have at Rucker or Sunrise, pulled those out of those budgets, and it's all right here.

I'm sure Mr. Gallatin will appreciate that.

Yes, that was equipment that Scott Klein purchased, and we sort of cobbled it together to make those payments last year, so we got them budgeted for this year.

Do you have a breakdown between... Between the golf course and Rucker?

It's about half. No, I'd say it's probably 75-25. Rucker versus. Oh, is it? Okay.

Can I ask a quick question? So the funds that we set up, are we going to eliminate those funds then at the end of this year, do you think? We've got a fund for Crystal Beach, a fund for the campground.

No, those will all stay. The only one that we might probably do away with is Rucker. Okay. It just doesn't bring in enough revenue for what it – Right, and you didn't fund it last year, so that makes sense.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, it will.

If we're going to do this whole – Yeah, it will need its own NRO.

Okay, so we'll probably just leave it, Shirley, and not use it.

And that's one thing we did miss, Mindy, is the Rucker food and beverage we need to add in. It's zeroed out in FAP and Park General.

Okay.

So.

What, does that number need to be? I thought we increased it, actually. I thought we.

But it's not in either one of them. Okay. Was it 10? It was five, and that wasn't enough.

Yeah, so I thought we increased it to 10.

Yeah. So, I know the revenues weren't real high for Rucker Food and Beverage this year, probably.

Right now, it's 11,000, but we've still got. Did we put that back into the Park General or into the Food and Beverage?

Park General. We put it into Park General. Yeah. But revenues did.

Right now, concessions for Rutgers, $11,370. But we still have fall.

Was the actual revenue last year, this past summer, or that was the budgeted amount?

That was the revenue for this year, yeah. So far.

So far, the idea is just like the pool, just like the campground, it runs right back into it. Yeah, so we fed it back into Park General this year instead of feeding it into the Rucker.

Correct. Yes, nothing was, there was no budget for Rucker last year. Right, right, right. But the revenue, I think, was going to Park General.

But the other ones were putting the revenue back into their own funds.

Yes, revenue. Yeah, we haven't used the Rucker NRO at all.

Should we start using it?

We tried, and we just didn't have enough. I'd say once they start producing. I mean, it's kind of just a break-even, not even that. And then I can't really move money to fix it if it's not enough.

Once we get to football, I have a better idea. I understand, right?

Can I ask about the Crystal Beach budget? I don't see where the numbers add up to 376 on the 2027 proposed.

Josh, can I have one more question before we jump to that one? Yeah, I just want to come to Rucker also. We can put additional lines. So if you wanted to do like an appropriation line in Parks General or in the FAB, we can put an additional line just for Rucker.

They are there. For concession? Yeah, it's there.

Okay, I was going to say we're happy to do that for revenue line and appropriation line in either one of those funds for you.

So even if we don't budget out of Rucker, can we put the revenues into Rucker so that –

We can stick the revenues in Park General and make a revenue line just for Rucker. Right, right.

I would just add that if we adopt this park investment plan, we'll be setting up all those accounts for 2027 because it will be really, really important. As Tony alluded to, there will be a new operating model for Rucker, so it's no longer just going to be a – you know, park doesn't generate a whole lot of revenue. It's got a whole new operating model if we make the investment in it. So that will necessitate the creation of a park operating or a rucker operating account. Yeah.

Sorry, Josh. Go to your question now.

No, I answered my own question. I looked at it. It looked like 2026. The salary for that wasn't actually into the total. So the That's what was missing. That's why it just wasn't adding up. It looked like we were going to jump more than 100% in the proposed amount, but that's not true. The salary is not adding into the total on the 2026 approved budget. So that was going to be my question with it. But I answered it.

In terms of operating accounts as well, we will be coming to you here this fall, working with Christian and the mayor and Tanya here to develop an operating plan for the Bicentennial Park of Indiana Music City's amphitheater. So that has not been included. We're just now starting to put those numbers. So there'll be some additional opportunities in that moving forward as well. We do have great community support. We will be announcing some of those sponsorships that we hope will cover most of those expenses as well as some other revenue resources from the amphitheater.

So we'll just... Are you saying there'll be additions to the budget for the maintenance of...

There will be some additions to the budget as a part of the operation plan for the Bicentennial Park. Okay. So I just want to make everybody aware of that.

Do you have a ballpark figure?

Use your mic so we can...

Mind zone, isn't it? Okay. Ballpark figure for that, just random. I'm not going to hold you to it. But you know how clueless I am about finances when it comes to that kind of stuff.

So it will be tens of thousands of dollars, but the revenue will offset any expenses is the plan. And it could create revenue for maintenance and operations.

Okay, so while we're talking about that. Yes. Like we used to support VMI and we eliminated that a few years ago. Lucy was reminding me. I'm looking at the – and I talked to my two colleagues here. I'm on food and beverage. The Main Street organization. I'm wondering if we could consider – reducing that to a point, like that's kind of what we do with VMI, like support, support less, support less, until those organizations are supporting themselves. I'm not saying don't support them. We're making cuts. We're looking for money to run Bicentennial when it's fixed. Could that be an area that we might consider just reducing the support, not eliminating it?

Start to wean them off of government funding.

I would not favor that. Mass in Main Street is an important economic development organization. There is a significant amount of planning that has to be done for the continued revitalization of Main Street. If you look at other communities, this is, I think, a fair but a nominal amount for us to contribute for the organization. And unlike VMI, you know, VMI is... very heavily funded by the NCUPR tax. Main Street isn't. I think we're at a healthy amount that hasn't really changed much.

Main Street is a critical, critical organization in this community. We rely on them throughout this town to plan and to execute, curate and recruit our Main Street shops. And so I would hope not to see any reduction in that. At the end of the day, somebody's got to do it, and they do a great job with managing that.

Is there any kind of data on our actual return that we get from them? Businesses they have attracted versus what's gone out? Are there just kind of a list of what we do get from them? I'd be interested in seeing that.

we can you know they host it and where they host or Emily's on the board she can go and speak to that but they have a they have a annual report yet they put out every year that could be information we can draw from to figure out if we're getting our ROI yes they tell what you were gonna say Emily no I will just second with the mayor and Tony said

I think they're a vital part of the community, I will say. I am on the board. And we are pretty heavily focused on this coming year for 27. Also for the Main Street Board trying to kind of look at their funding sources and basically how they get their sponsorships and stuff. And so we're hoping to kind of diversify our funding as well. Not to say at all that they want to lose the city support. I think they greatly rely on the city support. We're hoping to kind of go after maybe some bigger corporations and get some bigger funders. But like Lucy said, they do do an annual report every year that talks about all those things. And so I can get that for you guys. I'm pretty sure it's available on their website actually, but I can also send that to you. And if there's anything else, they do quarterly reporting for Indiana Main Street. So they track investment numbers. We give them some of that stuff from the planning department office. So there's a lot of internal reporting that they have to do just to qualify for their accreditations with Indiana Main Street and the National Main Street.

so all that being said there is data out there and if you want anything we can try to get it for you so i think one data point too is let's pull the placer ai i mean you're not a 2025 national recipient of the greatest american main street without you know doing the right thing to bring you know tourism to our community as well as economic development with small businesses and It's an important organization in my mind.

We have placer data for, and we'll pull that for you, for the core of Main Street, which is Broadway to Jefferson, and then we've got the West End as well. That information is provided to Main Street. I would say that everything that they're doing and leading would have to fall on others if they aren't in it as an organization and would likely fall many of those things to the city, like Farmer's Market and other things like that. fall to us to coordinate in an economic development standpoint. They have a committee that's working on that. We rely heavily on them so we can focus on larger industry and other larger redevelopment projects in and around town. It doesn't mean we don't help. Don, the Mexican restaurant is something that we work through our office closely with the Main Street program. I would also say that they've taken the lead on the second story rehab a component which is a very important part to any housing strategy but it's very slow and time consuming and so they've taken that on they had a major workshop recently with a national recognized consultant to lead that so i i do want to jump in and say i i support madison main street program i i agree for a lot of those reasons you guys went over a lot of them and tourism is definitely a huge thing for us and

I don't want to jeopardize that because we're getting penny-wise and pound-foolish a little bit on it, and I know we've got to cut places, but I think this will be a bad place to do that.

How many people are on the board? I'd say roughly 12, give or take.

So for $50,000, you're getting a pretty good group of people that help prevent the saturation rate of our economic development, which I think is a key point right there. That's a return right there in my opinion. Because if it's going to saturate personnel at the city and they're achieving these things, then I don't see why.

And I think that our financial participation is probably less than a fourth of their budget. We have done a good job of shifting expenses from a tax levy so that we can support general services over to these other revenues that we created. So this isn't an expense that's being factored into a tax revenue at all. Matter of fact, it is sort of being shifted, right?

So it is being cut out of general property tax revenue or general obligation into...

the food and beverage which is intended to support economic development and parks and I think that's a good shift when we talked about food and beverage a couple decades ago that was one of the original intents that that tax would go to tourism to supporting the base of tourism which the heart of the community is Main Street And I don't think anyone's disputing the organization's value. I think what we're saying, what we were having a little side conversation, was that being more self-sufficient is crucial for any nonprofit.

And I would agree with that.

And so 20 years ago when I was on the board and we asked for funding, we did receive funding from the city. So we're talking about... 20, 25-year commitment to helping that organization. So we're talking more about being more self-sufficient, diversifying where you're getting your revenue from is what you were saying, Emily, your board is trying to do. So it sounds like everybody's moving in the right direction.

Yeah, having served on a couple of the ad hoc committees with them recently, I think, you know they are working really hard to focus on economic development and recruitment and curating and those are really important extensions of the economic development program here at the city to continue to do that again if it wasn't being done someone else here would have to do that so and then i'd look to the mayor i don't think that fifty thousand dollars has increased in a number of years.

It was 40 for a long time.

Yeah, so I mean, I don't know. It's been 50 since I've been here. So again, 20 years has gone by. They've created additional revenue. They have two full-time employees. I mean, so they're creating additional revenue that's coming in beyond the 50 for sure, and it really hasn't increased.

I would recommend that your board also look at the innkeeper's tax and how your organization can benefit from working with the Jefferson County Board of Tourism to make that organization reach its next level too.

Yeah, I think that's a great suggestion. As we know, that revenue is continuing to increase at a pretty good clip. And with the addition of the new hotel, there will be additional revenue here coming in the next three or four years. So I think that's a good suggestion. It makes sense.

Before we move on from FAB, I just wanted to make a general comment about revenue for FAB. So this year, just as a reminder, we're only going to collect 10 months of revenue because of the way it's collected. It's due at month end, so if it's due January 31st, It's due to be reported end of February. We won't receive it until March. So we will miss two months of revenue this year. So next year, we'll get all 12 months. I'm comfortable with this budgeted amount in FAB, even though it's up from this year. We will not collect the full 17 that we budgeted this year, but we are being very careful about spending in that. So we will not overspend what we receive for this year. But for next year, I'm comfortable with that number. That's about 67 a month, and we're already up to like 62, 63 a month. So I think next year we'll hit 67 a month comfortably. So I just wanted you to know I think I'm good with that number.

Thank you for that point.

Yeah.

That makes sense. Item line 312, Heritage Trail Conservancy. Something to think about. We've been giving them $25,000 for a very long time, too. And we've doubled the assets down there. So we have a lot to take care of and maintain. Of course, it's all new now. But at some point, we need to look at that item line and how that works. Are they a 501C3? I think they're a C3.

I think so.

So, you know, I don't know. Are you talking about increasing that eventually? Maybe. Or if they're self-sustaining, then fine. You know, maybe that 25 is.

It's one of those we kind of look at like Springdale where we don't want it, so we're happy to contribute.

Yeah. But is it not impacted by the recent Heritage Trail additions? Yeah.

I mean, they're maintaining the trail. I don't know about the assets that we've added to it.

There's certainly going to be a capital plan for replacing cracked asphalt or maintaining that, and then also the weeding. We have a meeting, I think, either later this week or next week on the weeding around there, and they're currently still recovering from the tornado in June. But, yes, any time we add park assets, there's going to be eventually more park maintenance to plan for, and we are planning for more of that maintenance. $100,000 of that food and beverage tax collection is going to go towards increased park maintenance.

I said feed the bear back there. I don't know what's happening. Can we run through Crystal and Camp and Sunrise real quick? Sure. do crystal where's that at in the tab here is it um they're for the back very roughly alphabetical i got tired okay yeah all the i'm sorry all the part he's great all the parks are together under the parks tab

So I just want to say how well Crystal's doing. Mindy pulled up income today, and we've brought in as much to date as we had all of last season. So we've still got another month that we're open, and we have greatly reduced the payroll cost. So the first year we were open after the remodel in 2024, we spent $240,994 in payroll. And this year, year to date, which didn't include the payroll we just had this week, we've spent $125,000. Good job. We have increased income and decreased expenses.

Yeah.

Yeah. All about the Dippin' Dots. We've sold a lot of Dippin' Dots. Yeah, the expenses year to date are 204, and the income is 283. So we're in a great position to finish out the season.

And I would just say that every mayor who attended the Mayor's Roundtable could not believe. Ten mayors there and they said we want one of these.

Hunter Hall helps greatly. So all of the income that we receive from Hunter Hall goes in this NRO for Crystal Beach and that makes a huge difference. Graywatch has helped us extend the season for sure.

And I'll just emphasize, too, intentionally what we've done is moved operating expenses off of the property tax levy into their NRO, and they're really focused on improving NRO for each one of these main park assets, which is Sunrise, the campground, and Crystal Beach. These things are helping us make these new investments in parks. Essentially, is that right?

So, Tanya, how were you able to lower so much the chemicals, the food and drink? Did you relocate that to food?

We had to increase chemicals. I'm not sure where you see lower. Yeah, chemicals is 70. 70. Oh, you're right, I did. I was looking at 7,000. That 35 was a decreased amount because we had leftover chemicals from the first year. Right, I knew that. Or we had a surplus.

No, I thought it was 7,000 because the comma wasn't in there. Oh, it's 70. Yeah.

Commas are important.

They are.

Sorry. Little details get blurry. No, that's okay. No, I get it. They've increased their facility expenses a little bit just because they're, you know, after a full season or two, they know what it takes. And I think we're good on this estimated amount based on their revenue. I think it will sustain itself.

Is this the part where we tell Tanya and her team that they just knocked it out of the park?

Yes, that is the part. You know, it takes a village. It's really all the people there, Christian doing the maintenance, like the team running the, we just have a phenomenal team. Done a great job. Brett's done a phenomenal job too with the scheduling and really watching the payroll. I mean, we have to watch it and the weather affects it so much that It's really paying attention. Hey, bad weather, send people home, and you just have to stay on top of it. She's done a phenomenal job doing that. So kudos to her as well.

The baseball season and the sophomore season definitely went much better.

Good to hear. She's a keeper.

She's a keeper. Still have a lot to do to boost enrollment because the team's three years of ages on the same team was tough.

But do what you got to do. We've got plans and people in place to bring that.

Keep them on the air. Yeah. Did everything we could, but as long as hopefully we get more numbers next year and don't have six, seven, eight-year-olds playing together. Some of the other ones were even worse. Some of them were four years or five years of separation. I know that's tough, but...

Can we jump to campground real quick? That's an easy one. They're our money maker and our low cost to operate. So they're always easy. We did bump their budget just a little bit.

Well, and our revenue is, we're at $170,000. $170,000. Yeah. $890,000. It's hard to read those small letters.

I think it's usually $175,000 or more.

Yeah. And that's just, you know, to date.

Yes. So we bumped the maintenance operation utility lines a little bit. They might be able to help us out if we run short somewhere else. So we bumped those numbers.

And they do. Our plan this year, you already did that transfer, right, of that $100,000 from campground for some of the maintenance at Crystal, painting the pool.

I think we have to do it as an additional appropriation.

So it's on the list. But it definitely helps us with our other facilities.

Over the years, we've talked about keeping the assets in one location and then improving that location. So that's evolved into using it at other facilities, correct?

After the flood, we did make some improvements down there. The mayor can speak to the long-term planning on there, but we did make quite a bit of improvements after that flood.

We have all new fire pit things, or at least half of them are brand new. What else did we improve down there with our budget?

Oh, yeah, all new sod because all the water. We did the two staircases from the lower level up to the top.

But, I mean, even this year we've made improvements.

That's good. Eventually it will have to be in a capital plan because there's going to need to be new bathrooms, for example, new different types of sewer hookups, more power there. but we're not yet ready to talk about a $2 million campground project.

So eventually what is going to be part of the capital plan?

Eventually the campground will have to be part of a capital plan.

To take the money and profits that we make off the campgrounds and put them back into the campground.

That as well as other, there's probably another eight or nine. I mean, we're going to talk about hopefully three or four of them today, but there's another eight or nine. that have to be supported through a future capital investment. That campground bathrooms. But Lucy's right.

We did create those NROs to try to keep the money in the category. That was our initial thinking. It's just that we've had to, with the pool, we've had to make some exceptions.

And we're lucky to have it available. Yeah. All right. Sunrise? Sunrise?

Real quick, the credit card fee line, are those fees not being charged to the people who book?

They are, but we still have to allocate somewhere to pay them.

Okay. So they pay on top of what they pay, but then that all comes to us.

It's a wash, but we still have to appropriate it to spend it.

Got that.

Now, we do. I don't think Sunrise charges their credit card fees, but the campground does. It should be. That's been a discussion with Roger and the board. I'm not wanting to, but I agree.

We don't have to get too deep into it, but that goes back to the question I said a while back about the TSO, actually, I think it was. What is our cost for handling cash and depositing that money and how this might run to the bank and the loss and theft that occurs? Individual person, of course, but just in general, loss and theft occurs with cash compared to those credit card fees. Do we have any idea that it's lower than the credit card fee?

It's such a nominal amount. I haven't even gone back to kind of look at it like that, Josh, because, you know, the people that are going to the bank, making the deposits, coming down here, I'm not sure they're going to the bank. They're bringing it to City Hall.

So then somebody counts it down here, though.

They're already being paid. I mean, we already have that cost in their day. That's fine. Yeah.

I don't know. But they're spending hours on doing it, right? Minutes or hours, whatever, added up over the course of the year. And there is a cost associated with handling cash, both in terms of the processing it and depositing it, but also the loss and the risk of that.

Are you making a recommendation on something?

Do we really want to be encouraging people to spend cash as opposed to using a credit card or – other alternative forms. So by charging the fee, we are encouraging people to use cash or checks. Well, we're giving them the option.

I mean, they're paying a convenience fee if they use an option other than paying cash, for example.

Is it in the state's best interest instead to encourage the credit card payments? Because there is less risk of loss. There's less processing labor required. Do we actually spend less money if we didn't charge a credit card fee? I can answer some of that.

We did try a little bit of that at the transfer station. When we upped the rates, we stopped accepting cash up there and then very quickly had to...

I'm not saying stop accepting cash. If we don't charge the credit card processing fee, if you bury it within the operating costs, just like every other... They roll it in whether it's been cash or credit card.

I haven't seen it deter anybody.

We made the determination that it's better to accept the card with no fee. Oh, I see what you're saying.

We pass those fees on to the consumer. Those aren't fees that we accept. We don't pass the cost of processing cash on to the consumer.

We could take that into consideration the next time we look at our TSO fees. I think you would have.

I can speak on this for our department. It's all state board regulated. If it's cash or credit card, it still is the same amount of processing. So it's a report of collections. It's someone up there entering into key fund. It's not a really big difference. We still have to collect the sales tax and do all the same reporting, whether it's cash or credit card. So hopefully that helps. I'm not sure if that's what the question is.

You're right. We'll roll it in next time.

So the TSO decision was reversed. We now take cash there.

We accept all. I don't even think it's illegal not to accept cash. I'm not suggesting not suggesting cash or taking cash.

Your normal merchants don't charge you a credit card fee. They're doing what you said.

They embed it and they charge you a higher price.

They've decided in their business case that it's better to not charge an additional fee. Plus the credit card companies come back and slap their hands at times because it's part of their agreements. But

We are giving our consumer a choice versus taking it away from them. We can look at it a bunch of ways. I mean, it will have such a nominal impact on everything, and I don't think it will reduce our risk of loss.

From our department, it's the same amount of work, same body.

I understand your point, though, about encouraging credit card transactions.

Okay. Tanya, I know there were increases in sunrise. Can you talk through those real quickly, just the operational increases?

Sure. It's just the age of our facility and equipment. And chemicals were increased quite a bit, too. And Christian's here, so he can speak to more of that.

I've always gone over budget. We've never budgeted enough for chemicals at the golf course. We've ran into a couple of different pests that we've ran into that we've had to do additional sprays. It's either budget for it or just eat it then. This is something I'm going to have to maintain moving forward. The golf course has been neglected forever now. so you're saying the increase that we see is mainly in chemicals so that we have enough had a couple bridges that we've had to repair

What's the pest?

Irrigation.

The weevil? It stands way from the north to the south, and it eats polla.

We have a lot of polla. But also the revenue. I mean, their budget's $400,000.

Oh, this year it's $6,000.

Is it because we moved the salaries out? So $400,000, he will meet that in revenue. Their budget's much higher than that this year, and he's going to meet it. So I'm not worried about $400,000 for him.

Just so you all know on equipment costs, this past year we replaced a tractor in Gangmar, which is $120,000. We replaced it with a $40,000. That's the plan moving forward. We don't take $100,000. We're being smarter about what equipment we do purchase. There's some specialized equipment we have to have. A fairway unit, a spray unit, we've got to have, and those are $80,000 a piece. They're specialized equipment. You can't do something else with them.

I do want to give kudos to Christian and the maintenance guys at Sunrise as well. The course is beautiful, and surrounding courses are dying and just don't look good. I mean, they do a phenomenal job keeping the course looking great.

What's our expected revenue this year? Do we have an estimate? What is it now? What is it expected to be, or what is it now?

640 is what we need, right? Or 609? We're at year-to-date 315, 731.

so the budget of last year was 360 right it was higher than that it's the six yeah it was 600 yes around 610 i think but um and he met it last year but we fudged it a little bit because we did some transfers to help well and at the end of the year october november december we do sales of season passes so we have a large chunk of income come in at the end of the year So he's got the rest of August, September, and October, which are great golf months. And then he'll have his end-of-season sales, which I forget, was over $100,000 he brought in, right?

Outings are on the rise. We have a lot of outside groups showing interest. We're doing a marketing campaign right now to take advantage of the other places around us dying off to come play something.

Yeah, there's several different groups that are coming from other courses and playing just because they're in such bad shape.

So all of the sunrise expenses are captured here or not?

We moved some equipment to FAB.

I don't think payroll and benefits is in this tab, right?

Sunrise is in the park, I think.

Okay, so most of sunrise salaries and benefits is all in the parks.

Parks general.

Christian, do you have an estimate? How much do we spend mowing every year? I mean, hours or dollars for Sunrise and for the Rucker?

Are you talking employees?

Yeah, employee hours and what that turns into in dollars. Is it over $100,000? Is it $200,000?

It's the majority. The majority of what I do is labor. and if you took my total budget you do a lot more than mo though yeah I mean spray wise at the golf course the majority of the time is mowing the majority of the time what we do I mean you take the DLC gross out of it most of what we do is labor for mowing those 70 30 split up against 60 40 issue so I guess the majority

Yeah, a couple months ago I said, half jokingly, but since you're like robot mower, I don't know if you ever looked at that email. I did. I'm not saying go buy a robot mower, don't get me wrong. That was $150,000 robot mower, but it's six feet wide. It's made for mowing turf farms and stuff, but they're adapting them for...

Oh, the golf industry is saturated. That's what I'm wondering.

How much have you looked at? I have.

It's very expensive. New technology in general to make sure we're doing things efficiently, right? I mean, I've had my sales rep. We've talked about it. I've had remote control. I've demoed a remote control motor for the riverfront. I mean, it's there. So you've been keeping your eyes on that technology? Absolutely. I hate when they talk to me about it because it puts all my guys out of work. But it's something that could easily be done. Normally, it's for properties that maintain four to five golf courses. I don't know if it would be feasible just for sunrise. I mean, it would be very expensive. Well, I know that Rucker could be in there, too. I'm not really assuming it on the robot mower thing. No, it is certainly. It's up and coming, and in 20 years from now, it's going to be the thing that most big golf courses and big properties are using. As long as you're keeping your eyes on it, you've got a pulse of things.

What was the actual revenue for 2025? Do you guys have an idea? I know we're going two years back, but

I can get it for you.

Okay. Do we know it?

It was probably around, what do you think, $550,000. Yeah. Okay. It normally costs around $600,000 to operate the golf course, and we've reduced essentially a $400,000 annual deficit down to zero, and this is going to be a really good year. Last year was slightly above break-even, and this will be a better year. That's a pretty good $550,000. Yep.

And the approved budget for 2026, it states 360, but it technically isn't.

I've got my 26 book. I know some of you do too.

I know it's moved around, but me, my capacity, it's hard for me to make an informed decision on that if I can't.

What was it? 609. Yeah, I think that's just a good observation. And we've got to grasp whether we want to do this. But in our quest to simplify the processing, and save the administration time of payroll and benefits, it's very, very difficult to do a year-over-year comparison. And part of my concern about doing that that I've expressed to them is as we get through the course of the year, when we really want to measure each department's performance, we're going to have to have an ability to go grab that information from another budget and pull it back in and assimilate the information to see in real time whether or not we're satisfying a department budget. I'm not totally there yet. We're here to present it that way because it does take an enormous amount of time. And Shirley can elaborate on that much more articulately than I can. It takes a long time to process a payroll.

Well, and kudos to you guys.

On one side and create more work on the other.

And maybe this is a selfish interest, but it really helps me to see what the revenue was. And if we're justifying a budget going up, you know, what's the net gain? What's the net loss? That helps me really quick understand how do I weigh that informed decision-making process because – We're looking at a proposed amount to rise, $40,000. And this may be a misnomer, but the expected revenue is the same as the amount proposed.

Councilman, I want to draw your attention to the fact that These budgets are really organized. Everything is organized to comply with DLGF and get it into Gateway, get your notes to taxpayers, get your ordinances done. That's why what you see here, all the appropriations are really focused on what are you spending. They know how much revenue we have. What they're going to do is analyze how much of that are you spending and are you collecting enough revenue to afford your budget. For us, on our purposes, you have to go to this summary sheet, and then under each budget, you see the source of the revenue and what that total revenue is. And that kind of will give you a comparison. Unfortunately, when you look at our budget book, you're seeing it formatted for the way DLGF wants it so it can be assimilated for transparency purposes with the public. But you have to look at this global sheet that Manny prepares that shows all the revenue attached to each appropriation of a department. Yeah, that's a better place.

Because on the NROs, as you mentioned, when it's self-sustaining, which is what we want our NROs to be, If I know for sure they're going to, I can go back and look at a 10-year history of revenue, and if it looks like they're going to trend higher than what the budget is, I'll put that higher number in. But if not, I'm not going to present you a budget that I don't think they can meet, for one thing. So if I don't know that they are going to go over that, I will match the revenue to what the budget, just to say to you, we believe they can do this.

Okay. Thanks, Mindy.

Okay. Any more for Parks? Can we let them go? Thank you. Are you hungry now or hungry in 20 minutes?

Okay. Grab and go back and keep talking.

Okay.

I'll answer any questions.

So can we just do airport music?

Because I don't think there's any.

I mean, if there are any questions on it.

Yes.

Because eventually we'll have to go back and just start turning pages. Do you have any questions on this?

Right. Right. I just want to let people know.

I'll give you a little eye candy. September 2nd is our next park board.

At least that much. Yes. Maybe a little bit more. Thanks for clarifying. I understand what you're saying.

We're balancing the project.

There are times where I think I'd like to get with everybody and look at that, you know what I mean, to figure that out. Because when we get into voting for, you know, moving budgets and allocating funds, that would be really helpful.

Yeah, you want to know, you've got the revenue to cover what you're telling us you're spending. And it's these formats that we have to use are just, you know, archaic. There you go. That's the punchline. I have a whole presentation that goes, that gets us there. Hey, bud. Oh, here. I got a little eye candy for you, too. There you go. I'm not sure we'll do a part presentation tonight. But if not, I'm going to tell you about it. So there's my candy. That's the, I have a whole presentation, but that's the money. The money. You're welcome. on top of the half the money we already said we're going to raise.

It's like . yeah yeah yeah Yes, ma'am.

I'm sorry.

Josh, get some food. I have one second.

We're going to do – When we get reassembled, I want to make another quick comment about the food and beverage tax.

Sure. Airport is next, and honestly, their budget is pretty simple.

It gets back.

So let's see if airport, and they have two. They have their general budget and they have an NRO budget. Is that in alphabetical order too? In your book, yes. Aviation is all together.

Yeah, as soon as we get the council back up here. First I have to try this pesto pasta. Yum. Thank you. Thank you, Jimmy Johns. Wow, that's good. I just want to make one additional comment on food and beverage, particularly as it relates to tourism. Our primary tourism partners are VMI and Madison Main Street. Those are kind of the hubs of tourism in our community, and I think everybody here would agree that tourism is growing. Our numbers are exceptional, and we depend on a lot of volunteers and volunteer organizations and all their volunteers to for the probably 50 to 60 different events that happen across our community every year. I think Councilman Thivenall asked a good question, which is, what's our return on our investment? And maybe that's a consistent theme here. And as we're taking a break and kind of digesting what we've been talking about, the form of revenue that is a direct return on investment from tourism is the innkeeper tax and now the food and beverage tax. And so here, as it relates to VMI and Massa Main Street, we were only given a nominal amount to VMI. And as innkeeper tax grew, they were being more and more supported by the innkeeper tax. And as you remember, we sponsored a resolution and helped assist with getting the innkeeper tax increase from 5% to 8% because strategically, We wanted the innkeeper tax to be more effective across the organization and not only support the operations of events, but support the significant capital investment that's necessary that's predominantly borne by the city of Madison across the city that supports tourism. So I want to bring it into this, which is the $800,000 we're projecting for 2027 is a direct result of those efforts for tourism, and between 30% and 40% of that food and beverage tax is paid by people here who are tourists. So that's approximately almost $250,000 to $300,000 of revenue we're creating each year directly from the efforts of tourism. We all have to do our part, and we're doing our part with regard to the capital investment and supporting organizationally So that $50,000 in context of the $300,000 attributable to tourism and food and beverage tax I think is demonstrating a good return on investment. And then on top of that, as you've seen, with the innkeeper tax and our partnership with Jefferson County Board of Tourism, they're now contributing toward city initiatives that promote tourism. The hotel, the park, the amphitheater, our park investment strategy that we're doing. So There's hundreds of thousands of dollars, in fact, millions of dollars that's in that strategic plan that's directly coming from tourism. I just wanted to throw that out there for consideration that we are getting a really good return on investment with our partnerships with these organizations. We'll digest that more when we talk about it.

And to add to that, both organizations have different reports that they do that can provide that data and information about return on investment that they should probably be reporting to us about. quarterly or annually or bi-annually.

You know, Andrew comes here and gives an annual report. We could do the same thing with JCBT. And also I don't want to leave out the Chamber of Commerce because they're doing a really good job of business recruitment and offering benefits for small businesses and really focusing on the small business community. I agree. And that's a very specialized area. And as Tony made the point earlier, if they're not doing it, then somebody has to do it, and in most instances that's going to end up falling on the city. So those collaborations are enormous.

Yes, and to add to that, our job is to provide an environment for businesses, tourism, everything to be successful. So if innkeepers tax invests in that, if we get money from food and beverage to improve Madison, it not only takes care of our visitors, it takes care of the people that live here. So we have a duty to keep everything nice, tidy, clean, safe, and beautiful, all of the above.

I agree. Thank you. Now, we'll go to aviation and see if there are any questions on aviation. I know that one of the big things here is just the increased match for the AIP and their capital projects. To me, that's the big thing. I don't know if many talked to you or not, but we probably need a rotary fund budget. Anyway, do you want to give a comment on the AIP and grant match, line item?

Yeah, so the grant match is going to be for a runway project that we've got next year. We thought it was going to happen this fall. We've been working since basically February. The FAA asked if we could get the runway project done this year. We basically kind of shot from the hip, said this is what we would need to do. Our engineers work pretty hard. We did a design bid and even awarded the bid in, let's see, I think we started in February. We got the bids out in May. We received the bids in June. We got that package at the June meeting, BOAC meeting, and then we got basically all of our paperwork in July 1st, and then I think July 2nd or 3rd, they actually announced the grant that we were going to get. So we were able to get not only the runway project, which is probably the most significant runway project we've ever had since the airport opened. So when the airport opened in 1964, the middle part of the runway is still the original runway. And then we've had two expansions over the years, plus a widening. This is basically going to pulverize that entire runway in place. It's not an expansion. It's not a widening. It's basically just taking that Frankenstein version we've got where it's different pieces and we're making it all one great big slab. And it'll also build up the subgrade so we'll be able to get larger aircraft heavier aircraft in, so it should build up our weight that we could get up to about 81,000 pounds. I don't know what the calculations will be here soon, but I'm going to say probably in the ballpark of 100,000 pounds, so that'll be a pretty good help for future projects as we get further in, and if we ever do do an expansion, that would be beneficial there. The project's going to come to about $4.3 million. The good thing is, is we got the project done fiscal year 2026 as far as funding goes. So that means that the FAA pays for 95% of that. And then we pay 2.5 and the state pays 2.5. Had it pushed till next year and hit fiscal year 27, then we would have paid 5%. So we saved basically a little over $100,000 by getting it done this, getting it funded this year. The reason it's not going to be done this fall is after we awarded it, we talked to the contractor, and given the nature of trying to get everything ordered, we were able to... get a lighting project in there as well so our runway lights so when I started we had just done the taxiway lights the LED taxiway lights the first year I was in and we're now going to do LED lights for the runway lights so that'll be a little bit of an electrical savings but But we were able to sneak that in. That will allow us to clear up our capital improvement plan so we can start on our master plan, which is how we figure out where the airport wants to go for the next 10, 20 years. So that will be next on the capital improvement plan. So that's kind of where we're at, but that's what the grant match is, is we're needing to budget for that significant amount. We'll also be shut down for 60 days. So that's a hard shutdown for 60 calendar days. So we are gonna have fuel losses as far as revenue goes for fixed-wing aircraft. However, we will still have the medical helicopter And, you know, power line patrol, that sort of stuff. We're also going to try to see if we can get some military aircraft in and do some fuel sales on that. So we've got a total loss. But it will hurt without the jets and stuff. And you have factored that 60 to 80? Yeah, we've attempted to do that. I mean, obviously we're at the mercy of what you guys want to handle for us that year because that's a significant amount of revenue. We figured about $10,000 to $20,000 a month. Since it's going to happen, I'm sorry, it was going to happen in July is when they picked. So it's right in the middle of flying season, but it's also the best ideal conditions for us to get good subgrade, good dry subgrade, and be able to get in and get some of that curing processes they need to do to get the runway built up.

With that buildup and that capacity for weight, what's the largest fixed wing that you could get in?

So right now, so you can't count military, right? But you can do, so like right now we can get Gulfstreams in. So we can get G5s. But they have to kind of watch their weight. So it's coming about 78, 81,000 pounds. Anything over that, there's a certain percentage that they can be on. But we have to like check the runway for damage. The biggest problem that we have is as our pavement numbers are, the taxiways are still kind of the older ones. style stuff so that's kind of next on the list and then the apron or where we park we've got some concrete areas that we could park them on so we just have to make sure that the way we're kind of building up the runway then we're going to build up taxiways and we're going to build up the apron but when we do get that runway done we should be able to land a c-130 there so it'd be kind of yeah yeah i'm i'm going to try to get one in so they've they've they're there's they are interested But I know they landed North Vernon, but North Vernon had had a pretty extensive runway thing happen because they were milling their runway back in, I think it was 2015 or something, and the milling machine fell through the runway. So they were able to get extra money to build up their subgrade, and so they have a C-130 flying in there all the time. And so we've just been waiting for our turn.

Curiosity is, and I'm sure you guys explore it, I'd be interested to talk about it offline more, but what potential revenue could be gathered from military operations, especially if you're C-130 capable of landing jump operations, different insert platforms?

Jump operations, I'm not sure if we could do it because of the power lines we have around the area. Because, you know, with military, you can't really, I don't think you see those as well. I think they just kind of drop out. But some of them, I'd be open to talking about it. I know that we've talked to the Blackhawks. We've talked to, we've had a B-22 Osprey in, I think, last year.

Is that the Marine Corps? With the 22? Navy.

Oh, okay. Yeah, and we've had the Blackhawks in. We had Chinooks in a few years ago, which is why I ended up. So we've got part of that, the GSA access or excess that they have. I found out that airports can get donated to, so basically we just pay shipping. Or we just go pick it up. So that's why a lot of our equipment that we have is ex-military. So our telehandlers, we've got some tugs. Sometimes we'll get those from contractors, stuff like that. But we've got an R11 refueler. So 6,000 gallons and we can pump it military fueling. So we can go up to 600 gallons a minute if we wanted to. So I know that Megan that works for us, she came out to help me one day. We were hot fueling Blackhawks. We were able to do two of them in one or 11 minutes. So that was from the time that we landed them. I hooked them up, fueled them. She built them from the truck. And then we. Got that guy out and rinse and repeat. We did that in 11 minutes. That's 600 gallons of fuel. How many gallons? 600. That's amazing. So it can go. They fuel a lot quicker, and it's nice because you just watch those numbers just go. We also talked to our fuel contractor to see if we could get on the DLA contract fuel for the military. The problem with that is you have to have a – The highest ranking officer, whatever wing it is, they have to submit a letter to the DLA that tells them that we are mission critical. And then if enough people send that in, then the DLA will reach out to us. And then that's when they'll say, okay, do you want to do this? And then you get it for like two years. And you have to hit a certain mark. So it's like 100,000 gallons a year or something like that. And I think they kind of set the price. There's a few other quality control things we have to do as far as our fuel goes. And, yeah, so we've tried. I've got the template. I've handed it to the officers. You know, find the highest-ranking guy, just mark your name on here and send it to the DLA. We've tried that multiple times and nothing. Okay.

Well, I know that there's a, I believe there's an airway up in Lafayette, and then Louisville has a resident.

Louisville has it, and Lunkin has it as well, as far as the DLA stuff. Yeah. And Columbus had it at one point.

Well, after this, not to belabor it, I'd like to stop by or something to see if I can't help liaise with bridging that, if possible. Yeah. Cool.

Do they get free rides on the Blackhawks? We wish. Joel, can you help with that?

Yeah, you signed us for your contract. Oh, yeah. We've been trying to get them to the air. When we had the air show and stuff, we tried to get them there, but because the air show always falls at the end of the fiscal year, we never can get them.

We did have a military aircraft last year.

It was Lakota. NRO? Yep. Oh, NRO, yeah.

Nothing much to present, unless you guys have questions on that one. Yeah, so we decreased the terminal line item there, and that's based upon our capital improvement plan that we've submitted through this office. But because this year is slated for the runway project, most capital is going to have to be used there versus terminal improvements, which we have already conducted many of those. There's still more to do, but much of it has been done.

We're good? Thank you. Thank you, guys.

Keep up the good work, guys.

All right. You want to do fire or police next, Bob? Doesn't matter to me. All right. Brandon, let's knock you out. Is your son?

No. He's all good.

All right. Let's do fire general first. Fire is by itself and then you'll turn to lit for the other part of theirs. And I don't think theirs went down because we moved Brandon's salary and benefits and stuff over to Common Council and I don't think there's really any changes for their fire general budget. Brandon, is this the one That we need to pop back in?

So we would pop back in over on the lit. We were trying to consolidate.

Okay. It's okay that those came out of general, but we need to add it back to the lit. Okay.

Randy, can you leave that microphone in to you or speak up? Either one. Thank you.

So no real changes in their fire budget. Any questions on the general fire budget?

the uh general fire miscellaneous equipment pager and uh ppe did that all get moved those are going to go to lit okay uh hasn't that equipment gone down is it just because we've secured the majority of what we need

We made a big purchase on some oil dry. We got a really good deal on some absorbent last year, so I don't predict that we're going to hopefully not run out of that anytime soon. Hopefully, if so, we're able to recuperate those. That's the only thing that we're, by state statute, we're allowed to bill for is hazmat incidents.

Oh, okay.

Thank you.

Same thing with the general fire life insurance. Can you explain the lessening of the budget? It's just $1,000, but.

I believe that is due to reducing in memberships. okay so we went from higher to lower okay we ready for lit yes okay

Lit and Brandon, I think the three that Mr. Tevenon asked about are the ones we need to add in. We missed adding it in, correct?

Correct. And also the lit fire pager radio replacement. Basically, we're wanting to consolidate all of this other miscellaneous equipment. fire pagers, radio replacement off of the fire budget, and put that all in to this line item, so it'll be a $60,000 line item. The paperwork that I have, and I'm assuming it's the same thing, it says the last year's was $25,000, but it doesn't have anything proposed for 2027, but that line item would be $60,000. That's just a consolidation of 310, yes.

somewhere in the they're formulating and sending me budgets and me transferring them over here those did not make it in it's not an addition it's just putting it it just got missed and putting it in so um the number will go up a little bit and if we get too high on this total um we can move stuff back i've already pulled some police stuff out of lit and put it back in there general because we opened up some room by moving salaries out so If we get too high, other than expected revenue, we'll move it out.

$60,000.

Is there a name that we'd rename it instead of Fire Patient Radio?

I wrote that down, but I don't know if I brought it with me.

Was that the only one?

Fire Communications. Fire Communications, yes.

Was that the only one that we are going to change the dollar amount and the name? Yes. We use Mindy's book here to enter it into DLGF.

I will make sure what I will do is when it's final, when everything's final, the form one will be correct for you.

Okay. We'll get started with this and then we can just make adjustments. That'll work.

Anything else on LIT? All good? All right. Thank you, Brian.

I think it's just fair to mention that public safety is going to be the big topic, as I talked about earlier, about the adoption of a new local income tax rate. And we had a request from one of the companies to increase their allocation. We feel it needs to be part of the bigger conversation of the local income tax rate determination. And then what are our needs for public safety citywide? So that's why you see here pretty nominal differences. But again, I keep reemphasizing where we're heading to is a big, broad conversation about police, about fire, about EMS. in the context of adopting that local income tax rate. And it's just going to take a lot of analytics and a lot of conversations between Jefferson County and Hanover and Madison to get there. But that's, again, the summer of 2028 is when that will be adopted.

Thank you.

we'll start with lit and just stay on this budget I don't think you guys had any I know we move some things from lit the ones I moved back into your general Your overtime and closing, is it in your general?

Okay, so that's over there. Your radios up here, that went up a little bit.

Your gen supplies are in general? Okay, so that's covered. Your vehicles are still here at the same amount.

Yes. I'm sorry. Yeah, and I'll have it appear in case you need to reference it. Do it like this.

But I don't think. We put Lisa's contract in there.

And that's it.

So for police and the lit side, to finish out that lit budget, we moved, I think it was three things out of lit back into their general, which you'll see they're missing now. So their overtime and clothing line is now in their police general. Their gen supplies was in their police general. And what was the other one, Rick? Yeah, maybe it was just two but other than that their numbers don't really change in lit just a little bit a couple thousand bucks and And then just to finish talking about the other stuff in LIT, the jail construction, that 41% is what we get and send back to the county. And that estimate's based on the LIT estimate that we have. So, again, it's a guess, but it's close. And then your – oh. We did add that police investigative fund, and that was on your request, correct?

Probably one of the detectives. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

We moved the police department cleaning contract here. So there's certain expenses for the police department that we were still paying out of general fund stuff because the police department used to be in the building. And we never moved the expenses to their budget for their building and things like that. So their cleaning contract is now in LIT so they can pay that. And we forgot to talk about the fire debt at the bottom. This is fire. The debt service is for the new fire truck. So we'll have five years that we'll pay that payment. So we'll pay that out of lit. And then the emergency-owned watercraft, that will be the payment toward the watercraft that we're getting.

And what year is it that we get that watercraft?

Next year.

Okay, so we've just been making payments all along in preparation for that.

No, we allocated $100,000 out of ARPA, made a down payment. We're expecting an invoice from them this year for some partial work on the watercraft, and then the balance will be due, I think, in mid-2027 when the boat's completed.

So what is that $40,000 for then?

We'll have probably around a $250,000 balance owed on it, so we're amortizing that $40,000 over five years.

Okay. Thank you. That's what I thought.

I'm going to go to police general unless you need anything else in lit.

Police general it is.

Okay. Easy peasy. This is where we move their overtime and clothing and their supplies. We still have their stipends in. And I did add in the axon contract because that is, I think we took it out of their continuing education fund this year. But we're putting it in their general fund. We had it in their continuing education fund. And that's your tasers and body cams. Yeah.

All good?

They're in Common Council.

Pension is... What about equipment? I noticed in the continuing ed budget that we zeroed out the equipment.

It's in...

In PD continuing ed, we zeroed out the equipment budget line-up.

Is it in lit?

Did we move that somewhere else?

I don't know if it's in lit. Let me go back and look.

Okay. How much was it in... 184, I think.

Yeah, 184,000. Well, that was 25. Yeah, zero from 66.

Okay, let me... I don't remember.

Yeah, I don't remember.

Okay, my bad. That is 2025, but it's been lit now.

Well, what's that for?

PCE, what does that stand for?

Police Continuing Education. Thank you. Pension, just real quick, is what it is. Rick is the secretary for that, and he knows who's going to be receiving benefits there, and the increase is only a 3% increase, which that we will draw down what he needs to spend. So it's a wash.

This is a pass, sir, right? Yeah. So we collect it, we get reimbursed from the state, and you distribute it to the recipients? Yeah.

Correct.

Well, didn't the mayor ask all the department heads to try to cut 5% out of their budgets also?

We did. And then part of that is the revenue is not changing, but our expense profile is changing, but we're basically flat. Yeah.

Flat was pretty good. this environment. Nothing else, our expenses are not staying flat. So their continuing education is the only one we need to do. If I can find it.

There it is.

So where is equipment covered at?

Well, I'm not sure what that equipment line was for in 25, but their equipment repair line is 72 right here.

I'm wondering if that was for the new tasers and the new Exxon stuff.

Do we have budgeted here? Guns, ammo, vehicles, uniforms. Okay.

That may be correct. That may have been for the initial purchase of Axon.

It was a larger amount.

Yeah.

Initially.

Yep. Rick, did you say that... I think it was last year, not this year, but last year you had a shortfall for ammunition.

Yeah, we cut it really close. I think we just made it.

The only thing I'll say on this budget, this is funded by revenue that the police department brings in. Golf cart fees, police report fees, ordinance violations. That's a big number. So we really need to look at those ordinance violation fees for them, and we've talked about that multiple times. They're going to bring us some recommendations, but some of these are really nominal fees, and they need it to support their budget. So we need to talk about that upcoming.

Do you have a general cost per officer, like what it costs to maintain an average police officer through the year? As far as? If you were to take in, you know, ammo allotment, equipment, pension, just kind of the aggregate cost of what a single pack. I know that's a, you know.

No, I think if you needed specifics, I could provide that. Ammo, I mean, we get $5,000 per year.

I guess I'll state my curiosity is having a basic understanding of what each person kind of costs in the year helps me understand how can we grow that for us, how can we better equip them. ahead of time, forecast the numbers we need, and then meet that budget as we go. And putting it down to the individual unit makes it easier for someone like me to understand that.

I'd throw out $125,000 for officer.

Okay.

Yeah, something even general. Longevity, pension, equipment, vehicles, these are easily $125,000. Okay. Easily. Maybe more. I would say. We just don't want the vehicles.

Okay.

Yeah. And I'll say it's not enough.

Yeah.

We need to be investing more in public safety, and that's why we're going to get to that conversation about that local income tax rate. We'll have to have some serious consideration about what is a sufficient funding of public safety.

Agreed.

So we aren't talking about salaries right now, right?

No.

MPD? Yeah.

Okay.

Okay. We just need to go to the council budgets and look at that. Okay.

What should we ask? Is there anything else for the MPB budget before we get there?

I'm sorry. I couldn't hear what you were saying.

So do we need to talk about anything else before I move on to that? Right.

Any other questions on his budgets? All good?

So we go to Common Council?

Yes, if you want to talk salaries for police, we need to go Common Council.

So I guess my question would be, Chief, do you have a plan for large heavy loads and trucks for when it comes to Clifty Drive and for Main Street, as far as how to man and patrol that and actually have a truck route?

Yeah, actually, as a matter of fact, Just this week we decided we're going to go ahead and try to get back a full-time traffic officer. I know that's a big, a lot of our complaints is involving around traffic and semis on main. Is that what you're asking?

Yes.

Yeah.

So you would have one officer for Clifty traffic and downtown traffic or just downtown? Citywide, yeah. Citywide. Yeah. So that would be like an eight to four job.

Yeah, basically, but we also, you know, we're going to kind of rotate it so that they can hit the school zones in the morning as well. So, you know, some days it'll be 7-3, other days it'll be 8-4, so that they hit school openings, school closings. In the meantime, you know, they concentrate on... Main Street, Clifty Drive, any problem areas we have. I had a gentleman come down to my office and spend about 20 minutes talking about where he lives and the problems. I know that's all over the city. That's on the agenda probably by mid-September to have this guy pulled off of a shift and just doing nothing with traffic.

So what happens after 4 o'clock?

It's just for the rest of the guys working.

Regular shift responsibilities. And I ask that, too, because we're going to be investing a lot of money into our roads, and if these semis continue to do what they've been doing the past year compared to previous years, then they're going to tear them up pretty quick.

Yeah, and I also think we need better signage at the top of Hanover Hill. I know if you're coming in from the east end, There's a small sign right there in front of Jefferson and Main. So I think all that needs to be bigger as well. I agree. The problem with the semis, when they're coming down Hanover Hill, there's really nowhere for them to turn around unless they use IKE.

Right, and they try to use Clifty Falls. Entrance. Entrance as well.

Yeah, yeah. We have talked with Don, and they are looking at the signage sizes on both of those points. They've made a lot of improvements around town that I think have been good, and they would agree to look at that too.

I agree. They have.

I would just mention, just for point of clarification, we don't enforce weight limits on state highways, just on local roads and streets. So what you're talking about is true. We have a 5-ton weight limit across the city, 10-ton down here and on. I think that may be the only place that's 10 times, and it is very damaging to the roads, and we're spending millions of dollars on our new streets, particularly the Main Street corridor. Truck traffic has decreased, but they still leak through, and we can do some things with signage, but in some instances, they're just driving through because it's a shortcut, too.

And the problem with that is once they're down here, even if they get sighted, they're still going to...

they're still going to go continue on main because there's nowhere to turn them around so I think the signage would be a big help for us so hopefully that can get done and just like Mindy brought up us reviewing our ordinances and the fees charged isn't that one that we really need to help you as a council to make it worth the pull over and not to make it so cheap that they don't even care and they just continue to pay the penalty and drive on main street

They're surprised at how the semis I'm talking now, they're surprised at how low the fine is. They're very eager to pay it and get on out of here.

So we can help you in that regard too.

We're working on that. We have about 20 ordinances that have a fine associated with it, so we thought we would do all that at once as we're updating our ordinance violations, your ordinance too.

So the local violations that you guys can write, Do they get reported to the B&B?

No. B&B or insurance. There's no mechanism within state law to update our ordinance to do that? No. Only on the state statutes.

Mindy left the room, but Bob, do you know? Oh, she is there? Okay. On the line with all the salaries... Who else is in there besides police?

Is it really just police salaries in that one line?

I was looking at the $5 million and I was like, okay, that can't just be police. Okay.

Thank you.

thank you I'm sorry all right well let's do honestly Tony's got a bunch of budgets but they're all easy so let's just do economic development general and economic development NRO that'll those will both be in the economic development tab

Yeah, so over the last couple years, you know that we have, knowing Senate Bill 1 was coming, the conversations, NROs have been really important. So we continue to use the NRO for, as you can see again, another decrease in the general tax levy for economic development. Really pretty minor now, about $10,000 plus salaries. That's where you are. You look at the NRO budget, it has taken a little bit more for some decreases in the general tax levy, but generally continuing to run sort of a lean mean.

We have two budgets here, economic development and then the NRO budget? NRO budget.

Correct.

Mean and mean.

Only change on the NRO budget is Erica Klein, who was pretty much strictly working with Tony, and we had her in, I think we had part of her expenses in this NRO budget, and I have moved her over with the Common Council, with everybody else, because she works also for the mayor.

So that was a position last year. We utilized her time to not replace the executive assistant.

On the economic development budget, which you're saying is the general budget,

can we go to that because I'm not understanding yeah because it's the salaries that got moved oh the salaries again yeah yes yes and I I'm sorry that I did it that was not thinking I was really tired that day I just deleted those lines and I should have just zeroed them so I know it makes it really hard for you to see it the comparison

questions I just have to say I think this is probably the highest return on investment the city is achieving well I think the strategy that you guys have allowed us to do with being able to capture

some of the liquor license, and then the interlocal that the Madison Railroad is giving a dividend back to our community for economic development is paying off. It's also paying off for the general community because we're able to then take less tax revenue and give that over to other departments. Continuing to look for those opportunities. So thanks for the council's support of those. Those two NRO funding mechanisms.

Let's move to planning. That's the PPD tab and that will have your planning department, general budget, and the NROs related to them. So the nuisance and the PPD NRO.

So again, thank you for your support of the fees for people who use those services, trying to have those services pay for themselves, that people use, that not the whole community needs to pay for. So thank you again for those support. Again, the state statute will require us to review our fees again here in five years. There was a number of changes, as you well know, to fee structures for planning fees. in the community and in the state just because of the fact that they want to support more housing and try to eliminate the need for communities to put a bunch of fees in place to hurt housing expansion. So that was a state, again, another state, I guess, mandate or law that has some impact on this department. But again, we're doing a very, I think, a very good job currently. And again, just very... Minimal expenses to what you need to run an office in our general tax levy. And then the NROs, if you look at those, are continuing to remain pretty flat. Our challenge, I will say, and Mindy can talk to this a little bit more and surely, it's a little hard on the tax levies, I mean on the tax liens and on the fines that we're starting to collect. The timing of those coming in from the county has been a little slow this year, not because we haven't been leaning property or assessing the fees for nuisance or the vacant and abandoned. It's just the matter of collecting them and getting them in off the taxes. So it's been a little slow, I believe, in collections, but we believe that will pick back.

It's always a little scary because we get those with the tax draws. So we won't really know on the new one, the vacant and abandoned, until December. And we can't really wait that long to find out if we're going to get reimbursed for what they've spent. So we're doing that a little differently in the 27th. We just budgeted that in county tax because we can spend it right out of there and then not have to worry about when those liens come in. We'll put them in there and fund that fund, and the year after that when we budget it, we'll use that money to do it.

But we're just going to be safe. So it's the first year where everybody's learning a little bit about that, the county assessor and auditor as well. And so we're working through that. Again, any time we're called out on a nuisance, that cost to – mitigate that nuisance is charged back to that taxpayer on that property and it does become a lien. It doesn't mean we collect it right away, but it does become a lien. So at some point, the city will be made whole for those nuisances to be mitigated.

Is the reduction in the professional services because we're not doing a comp plan?

Yeah, I would say, you know, yeah, it's obvious that we're continuing to implement the plans that we currently have in place and would not expect the need for that community dialogue to begin until 2028, and so we were able to reduce some of those expenses out of the professional services line. We will still need that and use that occasionally for other services. As you know, we don't have a planning director currently. We have We've had a couple candidates interested and continue to have dialogue there, and we want to find the right fit. In the meantime, as you know, we have hired Amy Williams with TWS to augment the planning department from a technical perspective and ensure that the planning commission and Zoning Board of Appeals is running efficiently, and I know a couple of you served on that. Josh isn't here, but I think she's been doing a really good job, and she's very responsive to our constituents and I think is doing very well.

Is that the item line for Amy's fees?

That is the line item for Amy's fees. Okay.

add on this budget that increase in attorneys fees I can't remember if we've talked about it but Joe came to us and said given the amount of time he spends at all of our meetings and the work he's doing um Relative to zoning and the background work he has to do, he asked for a little more. It's $1,000 more a month. We split his fees between planning, because they have a lot of those big BZA and zoning meetings that take a lot of his time, and the law budget. It's divided half and half. So their half went up $3,000 a year. We picked up the difference in the law budget.

Does he provide a summary of the hours... That he spends, I'm sure it's a very large number in comparison to what he bills us.

Yeah, he does most of what he does under this annual contract and does not itemize it for us. If he does special work, he does send us an itemized bill, like for litigation, things like that.

So for day-to-day activity, I'm just one person, but we're doing a number of deals. I mean, every ordinance, every deal, every financial process, every recruitment, every individual, he's on those emails and is providing legal advice. I probably talk to him twice a day. He's a bargain.

I have no doubt that we're getting him for a discount. Yeah, he's the second best bargain.

Yes. Your mom can tell you that.

So anyway, but yes, Joe is invaluable, and he is invaluable to the planning department.

This is something we should probably think about keeping better records of, better notes of, because what happens in 10 years when... there isn't somebody willing to work for the same discount.

I'll send an email to Judy and ask her to keep detail. Ask her to keep to you a detail record for Joe.

Yeah, I don't know what that looks like exactly. You're right, you don't want to create extra work for somebody for no reason at all. But we are, when things like that are happening and people are working, whether it's Joe or it's Heritage Trail, we're getting a huge discount for that stuff. All that work for free. All of a sudden, at some point, that will come to an end and all of a sudden the city's hit with a big number that we haven't been spending and everybody's so shocked and surprised.

Yeah. And again, you know, we subsidize, you know, the RDC and other, other, we have outside council too. So Joe coordinates that and helps works through all that with the outside council and all the various projects as well as any of the financing. So he has a pretty large role in a number of those projects. Ultimately, he gets some fees out of those, too.

I think that's everything.

Oh, I could find something else.

Sit down. Go home. Okay.

We brought you... Thank you, guys.

We brought you the most complicated budgets first and the biggest budgets first. The rest of them, sun's still shining. I'd love to power through. We have the rest of them are either the other general budgets that really, honest to God, didn't change, or they are limited by the tax levy that funds them. So I think we can power through them real quick. I can tell you where the changes are if you're okay with that. Anybody need a bio break before we do it?

Would you like to do mine too? I can just go super quick. Yes.

I think, Shirley, yes, you can do yours. Okay. I think the only change is really your subs and dues and your part-time person.

Yes. So the subs and dues, first off, there's an increase for bank fees. That's for positive pay. It's a new tool that we use with the banks. We download each day to the bank what our disbursements should be, and if they don't match, we get an alert from the bank.

It's under CT, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Yeah, I know. Okay, and then the next increase is just not really an increase. It's just focusing on what the actual dues are and subscriptions are. So that incorporates AccuPay. It was not incorporated anywhere else before. So AccuPay is our payroll system, and it cost $35,000 last year. So we just are using that $35,000 figure. Key Fund, our accounting software, is $14,000. Then I have AIM dues for $100 and ILMCT dues for $500. So it comes just under $50,000. So I think Mindy padded it just a little bit just in case there's an increase.

Well, it's hard to remember sometimes all the different software platforms that we use and what they cost. And honestly, that is not an increase for the clerk budget. Those were always paid out of the clerk's office, and I never knew where they came from. But we never budgeted for them. So in the interest of transparency and our ability to know what it costs to subscribe to everything that we need to do to do business, We decided to put it in the budget. And then when we get back to Common Council, on the clerk line for salaries and benefits, it does include a part-time person to help them organize, maintain, and clear out their records. I mean, the amount of records they have up there and on the third floor is ridiculous. So... We were fine with a part-time person to help do that. So that is included in her salary number.

So if you ever want to venture up to the attic, go into the very far west room, and you will see there are boxes and boxes and boxes. And we can't just destroy those. We have to go into Indiana Archives and request... destruction of those records. And it means we have to have somebody open every single box and label what is actually inside of that box. So it's a little more than just emptying it out. Emptying it out would probably take six months. But it's going to take longer because we have to mark what's in the box, what we're going to destroy, what we can't. And there is a 10-inch schedule that we have to abide by as well. The only other thing I just want to applaud Mindy and Bob on is we approached them with this idea of getting everything taken payroll wise taken out of one line multiple lines if we're working with water sewer but i applaud them for because they put everything in a council we're going to be able to we do kind of a clothesline effect and take things out of certain banks accupay will only take things out of one bank and so what's going to happen is we're going to do a little bit different but we were doing in front of the scenes transfers and i'm not going to get too far in the weeds but You have Bank 4 is for water, sewer, and TSO. You've got Bank 0 is most of the general fund that you've been presented with tonight. Bank 1 is aviation and VH. And all of those banks flood into what's Bank 2, which is our payroll bank. This is going to eliminate that Bank 2, so it's going to simplify things quite a bit. We'll have a little adjustment for our payroll clerk, but we'll walk her through it before I leave. So I just applaud you guys for doing that.

You're welcome, and it will be much better not only for Shannon, who has to do, I think, 144 transactions with every payroll.

Yes, every two weeks.

So our records are not even accurate for several weeks, not any fault of hers, but it takes her a long time to get those payrolls posted because Key Fund and AccuPay don't talk to each other. So manual transactions to get it into the report so you guys can see it. We don't have accurate numbers until she has it done. It's never really caught up until year end, so it will help her immensely. It will help Jenna, who pays our benefit bills, Anthem, Guardian, Brit, all of that stuff. Every single month had to be divided out by bank and by line. It gave us great detail on the operations, but we've done it enough years now. We know when we're going to be, if we're going to have a problem or not. And we can still run reports and see that any time we need to. But putting it all in one line means both Jenna and Shannon have to go one line for everything.

Well, and I also want to point out that we wanted for data collection to be able to go in and say, okay, how much of that disbursement was for police department or parks department or aviation department We can do that through AccuPay. We can pull up reporting through AccuPay by department. So you're not going to lose the data to find out exactly what you're spending in your parks or police or aviation or MAH. So there's really, it's just a win-win.

Yeah, I think it'll be much better.

We'll just have to sell Shannon on it.

Oh, we talked about it. We talked about it this week.

She was grateful for it. Okay, good. Good.

Okay, are we good on clerk?

Yeah.

All right. I'm just going to go kind of back to the beginning of the book. And we will look at BPW, which literally has no changes other than moving their salaries into Common Council. Check.

Okay.

All right. Alphabetically, what's next is CCD. That is the rate that you all approved increasing to .05. It increased the amount that we will have available. Gosh darn it. um to spend a little bit and that helped so um it went up to 410 our expected revenue off that tax levy is 410 216 so i kept it just under that um and really not really anything majorly changed It says new on the DOC contract, but it was in there before. It was just combined with another line, so it's the same. Now, it is more. It was $80,000 or $85,000, and they are going to increase it to $120,000.

Is that two salaries?

For DOC? Yeah. It's two crews.

Okay, but are we basically paying the salary of the supervisors and others?