Common Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening and welcome to the Tuesday, May 19th Common Council meeting of Madison, Indiana. Mayor Courtney's in Washington this week. He'll be representing Indiana at the American Flood Coalition meeting. So we'll be handling the meeting from up here. With that, if you would, let's rise and open with the Lord's Prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance.

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses

evil, but bless the kingdom, have power, and glory forever.

With that, would you like to do a roll?

Yes. Patrick Chavanagh. Here. Carla Krebs. Here.

Lucy Vitillo. Here.

Josh Schaefer is absent. Joel Storm. Here. Jim Bartlett.

Here.

And Josh Wilbert.

Here. Okay. Has everybody had an opportunity to look at the minutes of the last meeting? I'll make the motion to approve the minutes. All in favor? Aye. Okay, minutes pass. We don't have any presentations this evening or first resolutions or bills on first reading. However, we do need to recess the regular council meeting and call to order a public hearing on Ordinance 2026-10C which is a fee change and amendment sponsored by Councilman Wilbur.

Would you like me to read the first part of the ordinance?

Go ahead.

Ordinance 2026-NC, an ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Madison, Indiana. amending Section 150.24 of the City of Madison Building Regulations, Section 153 of the City of Madison Subdivision Regulations, and Section 155.11.60 of the City of Madison Zoning Ordinance.

Council, good evening. We have been working, as you know, through a number of planning, preservation, and design items in that group. One of those is the Unified Development Ordinance that has passed and we now have moved on to our fees and tonight we're going to explain to you a couple of things about that. One, what the state is requiring cities to do as a part of Senate Bill 1001, how we've reacted to that. Good news is we had already done some of those things previously. those items early. And then the other thing we'll do is go through how we developed the fee structure with Amy Williamson, our consulting firm here. The Planning Commission had reviewed this document. They approved it unanimously with a due recommendation to pass. And there were a couple changes at the Planning Commission meeting. Appreciate their input on that, but I'll now introduce Mindy to talk a little about, oh, is it all gonna be Amy? Okay, that's fine. We'll start with Amy first. I'm here for support. All right, we'll do that. All right.

All right, thank you. Amy Williams, good to see you guys. I know, worked through a lot of things with you guys, getting the UDO kind of developed and adopted. And now that we have that, our next step is to kind of look at the fees. Stepping back a little bit, bigger picture from the statewide perspective, as Tony mentioned. Now it is, it's House Enacted Act, that really also addressed our permit fees for all of our local planning commissions and governments in terms of building permits and planning commission VZA fees. So some of the things I'm going to give you a quick highlight on what that requires. By the end of this year, there has to be an audit for calculation methodology to ensure those are, again, reasonable and comparable to what it actually costs you. New law does go into effect July 1st. After that, basically instead of a 90 day wait period for effectiveness that it is today, it goes to 180 days. So after July 1st, you would wait six months for those fees to become effective. Currently that is three months, 90 days. And also when we start to look at that, It also looks at after July 1st, those fees can only be updated once every five years. So that's something that's definitely new and was discussed a lot as this legislation was going through. So again, a lot has happened in the last five years if you think about that. And then also, it needs to be placed in a separate non-reverting fund. As Tony kind of alluded to, you guys are already ahead of the curve on that one, and good job on that. That's already been set up and established, so you're up and running with that. And then the last thing, it allows for some other external permit review if it's not getting done effectively. Then seven days, if you're not getting your permits on certain items, they're allowed to go get external permits from another certified basically entity or building inspector. So with all of that, we want to make sure that These are, again, reasonable so that we're not kind of stifling development, but we also want to make sure, to the extent possible, that they're also reflective of the cost that it is you are incurring, so that the general fund is not bearing the burden of issuing permits, basically. So you guys should have in your packets a proposed fee structure. All right, and basically we have the current and the proposed in there. Some go up more than others. We did talk a lot about this during plan commission as well. So there were some good revisions that were made during that point. And those were really to like the variances and special exceptions and making sure we cut the rule on residential district fee on that down to 200. And then those other districts or commercial industrial districts those were increased to the 400. So we tried to keep those lower if somebody needs a variance for, you know, a setback of their garage or something of that nature. And so really, again, these really reflect what it is. Closer to what it costs you, it's still probably not covering your costs altogether. Do you need a copy of it?

I have the blue. Yeah, the blue.

I was going to go through. I still have that second page. This is an additional comparison I was going to kind of walk you guys through. So what we also do, we start these fees in a couple of ways. Even before this new legislation came through, we always go through and make sure there's a reasonable basis for our fees, right? It's not just something arbitrary that we pick. So they're all based on the number of hours and time it takes to pull things together. What we also do concurrently is we also kind of look at what is everybody else charging around you, you know what I mean? Because we don't want to, even if it's going to cost us more, we don't want to be sort of higher than other communities. So on that second sheet, all that really is is looking at some of the surrounding communities that have updated their fees in the last five years and what are those fees, right? So we did look at the county's fees. So again, if you look through those, your plots are pretty similar to that. Your use and variance fees, again, pretty similar. You'll see some are higher. Jeffersonville is one of those that is higher than what we have in our fee structure. Again, trying not to make a drastic increase, even though likely still it's not going to cover 100% of all your costs, including your salaries of your staff for planning. So again, we like to do that just to make sure that we can show we've done a little bit, even more due diligence than what is just required in terms of making sure we're not, you know, extremely higher than a lot of the surrounding communities. So I can answer any questions on that, but I also wanted to make sure we touch base on how did we come up with these fees, right? Again, we didn't just throw a number out there and say, that sounds good. So Mindy's got a spreadsheet up here. So whenever we do fees, we start to look at first, what are our costs, right? So you have some hard costs like recording fees and that sort of thing, right? But you also have costs from your staff time perspective. And so looking at just including an hourly rate based on what your current salary would be for a planning director, You know, using the outgoing salary. We've kind of broken that down to an hourly rate. And then for each one, if you scroll down just a little bit, maybe we'll use like the appeal as an example because it's an easier one. We've got the broken out. So how long does it take to process that application? There's always usually numerous phone calls or emails prior to somebody even submitting an application. How long does it take for staff to do a technical review of that application? Are things missing? Is it actually not a use variance? It should be a development standard variance or whatever it may be. Then there are, for TAC, that's Technical Advisory Committee, that's coordinating with all the other entities out there, departments, that sort of thing, making sure that it takes some time on those usually. Depending on what the application is, there could be a lot of public questions and follow-up, right? Things that have a lot of interest and would get a lot of phone calls on. Things like an appeal, we're not going to get calls on that. So that's obviously zero. Then there is also time for doing a staff report and pulling those packets together. There is also time for a legal ad that has to be placed on those that require a legal ad. staff for attending those meetings. Again, documenting those findings back, like if it's a VZA or a waiver from the land commission. And then also there are recording fees on some of those associates. So we put all of those hours in. So here you can see it's 15 minutes to process it and 15 minutes to do a review, half an hour to pull together your staff report. Again, findings of fact, and those things are each a quarter hour too. So these are probably really conservative still. You know, I did an appeals application recently. It feels usually a bigger one, but from a staff, sometimes you gotta kind of help to justify that. I think it was four or five hours, you know what I mean? Just for the staff report. Not with Madison, but with another community. So again, these are still probably pretty conservative, but we don't wanna... be absorbently high either, if that makes sense. So trying to kind of stay in that reasonable realm to make it feasible for development. This is an example. I like to keep this one low on purpose, in particular, on the appeal. So we have that calculation for all of those. That's what Mindy will have in her record. So she already has that methodology for how we came up with those fees. And she'll be ready to ready to submit well before December 31st then with that so Happy to walk through any of those questions or any of the fees The few that were kind of amended by claim commission again with this variances and special exceptions bringing just those rural and residential districts down That's usually more of your homeowner applying for that one versus you know bigger development

very closely with Jefferson County. Many of our fans were lower than theirs and so we wanted to make sure we were in the ballpark as well with our county colleagues. So that was one that we looked at.

Did you say, we're going very quickly, but did you say that if somebody, let's say I wanted to apply for one of these and I didn't want to use the city, but I could go find another building inspector?

So part of the state legislation, it was actually, one bill went into effect last year, and there's a new one going into effect this year, that if I apply for a building permit and for a single-family home, for example, and I'm not getting my permit back within, now it's going to be seven days, it was 14, that I have a right to have my fee refunded and I can go get an independent building inspector to issue my permit and do it all.

But they would need to go with the local one first.

Yeah, they have to apply, and then we would have to, as the city, we would have to default on not getting that permit turned around fast enough, which Madison doesn't have issues with. There are others that definitely, it could take months to get a billing permit issued. So you all are phenomenal in that. Your customer service is quick, usually turnaround. So kudos to that for you guys as well. It is out there.

That makes me feel better.

All I called was, they can go to another building. I'm like, what? Yeah, that was just a hot topic this year for discussion, too.

And you can think of other communities that may be busier in terms of that. And we hope to be, too, in single-family homes soon. But the reality of the bill, the House enacted bill, was to speed up development opportunities and to speed up housing being built. So they did a number of things, and that they have the right to go to another's jurisdiction or an independent planning professional and have that done.

Okay, and then my other question was short-term rental permit. Yes. Okay, now the first thing that comes to mind, obviously, is Airbnb. What other things might fall into that?

That is just that. It is Airbnb VRBO. So it is something that's rented on a short-term platform, which is defined by the state and reflected in our ordinance, our UDL. But basically, Airbnb, VRBO, one of those types of platforms. And that is actually regulated by state statute. So we can charge a one-time fee of a maximum of $150 one time. We can have them complete another application or update it annually, but we cannot charge a fee annually. We only get to charge that fee one time. And that's all very, very regulated by our state statute a couple of years ago. If they default on that permit, we still can't charge them another fee. So there's administrative costs, but that one's definitely not commensurate to what it probably actually is, but we can't control that one.

And I did want to make sure everyone remembers that as a part of the UDL, We have a lot of conversation about short-term rentals in the community. We are requiring registration for those. And we'll have to enforce that and monitor that and all those things, but we will be trying to ensure that every short-term rental is registered with the city and follows their house rules that they do now, as well as that will also make sure that every short-term rental is also paying appropriate taxes, the innkeeper's tax to the county. So we're working with VMI and we'll be working with JCBT to work through that monitoring process.

Okay, just one quick question, just a clarification question regarding the ordinance, and I just want to clarify. So it's got, the fees shall become effective on, we're putting in August 19th, that's 90 days from today, upon its adoption to the Common Council of the City of Madison. So that is 90 days, and of course, if they pass that tonight, then tonight's adoption. Thank you.

Do we have any other questions from council? Do we have any questions from the audience? Questions or comments? Seeing and hearing none, then we will adjourn the public hearing and reconvene the regular council meeting. And with that, we do have one report from a city official. Emily McKinney, I believe, has liquor license renewals.

Good evening, council. If you remember last year, I came to you guys and we added two additional licenses to this program, which granted us the ability to be able to give out 12 total licenses. So right now, up to five of those can be sectioned off through the cultural experience category. And so right now, out of those five, we have four of them that are taken. So one of those remains available. And then four of our restaurant slots are taken. So we have three restaurant slots available currently. And so then the four applications you have before you tonight are just our first renewals for this year. And so we have two restaurants with that, which is Rivertown Grill and Red on Main. And then we have two of the cultural experience venues, which is the Red Bicycle Hall and the Ohio Theater. Both of the restaurants have met all of the financial requirements that they need to for their third year and beyond, so they are good to go in that category. And so all four of those have been reviewed by the Economic and Redevelopment Department and the Mayor's Office. So I would just ask for a motion from you all to approve those four renewals.

I move that we approve the liquor licenses for the Ohio Theater, the Red Bicycle, the Red Pepperoni, and the Rivertown Grill.

Do we have a second? Yeah.

I will second that motion.

All in favor? Aye.

Thank you, council.

Thank you. And with that, we do have one bill on second reading. Ordinance 2026-10C. Again, sponsor, Councilman Romer. Would you like to read the title?

Sure, again, ordinance 2026-10C, an ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Madison, Indiana, amending section 150.24 of the City of Madison building regulations, section 153 of the City of Madison subdivision regulations, and section 155.11.60 of the City of Madison zoning ordinance.

And this is the ordinance associated with the public hearing we had just a few minutes ago.

Do we need a roll call vote? Sure. Patrick Tebanel? Yes. Carla Krentz? Yes. Lucy Detillo? Yes. Josh Shaffer's absent, Joel Storm? Yes. Jim Bartlett? Yes. Josh Wilbur?

Yes.

Okay, very good. That brings us to the end of the formal portion of our meeting. and time for public comments as well as any comment from council. We do have a couple of folks that have signed up to speak. Let me find my list. Sorry, folks. Yes, Keith Schmidt.

Hi. I addressed the... Can I get your address, sir? Pardon me? Your address. 203 Westwood Lane. I'm sorry. I blow out of your dime. Anyway, I came here a year ago and I got all the footwork done with the state of Indiana about the strip on Green Road in between Lanier Drive and Craigmont Street, about the shape it's in. I handed all the stuff to the fellow who was taking care of the worst parts of the roads and all that. But I wanted to address it again since it's been a year. But actually, Green Road is in really bad shape between Craigmont and Michigan Road as well now. I'd say that's been 40 years since that's been resurfaced. But just that area down there where the two drapes are at, it eats tires there. They've got people's cars. And I wanted to give a heads up to all the guys that do all the curbside pickup. Man, those guys are well machined. boom, boom, boom, boom, boom when they come through the neighborhood. So with that said, thank you all.

Thank you for your comments. I'm sure the guys working the curbside pickup will really appreciate your comments. They are, I'm telling you, they are.

So did you notice that we did get one of the potholes, because I drive that every day too, at the corner of Green Road and Crickmont on the southeast corner. That one got fixed last week. and i don't know if you're aware but we are our next one of our next big paving jobs is craigmont street okay so the drain that's kind of in the middle of that intersection which is one of them that you refer to well that's the one i'm referring to is i know over by the railroad tracks and i think they're just

bad shape that they're not taking the water away anymore and they're sunk down in the ground everything else when you go through there school buses and everything else that's a very well-traveled road as you know yes i mean it almost knocked your hubcap off when you go across it right and then on green road i mean the only part that i am concerned about right now on my drive every day is and they have a cone over it it is a sewer whatever access manhole thank you

And they have a cone, I don't know what the plan is, but I will look into that. Because that's my area.

Well I think the strip they put on the south side of Green Road, I think it's been there, I think they added that on because it was a narrower road like Hatcher Hill. And they put that little strip on the side of it. That's been 40 plus years ago. It was a little bit diggy road. Thank you.

Thank you. Elliot Weaver.

I wanted to come here to, since I'm Elliot Weaver and I'm part of Boy Scout Troop 717, and I was, for my citizenship in the community of Merripatch, I needed to identify a problem in our community. I needed to identify a problem in the community and ask, like email somebody or go to a meeting about how the youth can help or fix it or help fix it. And my problem was that, I don't know if work is in your jurisdiction, probably not, but there's like big semi-trucks are going, trying to get into the proving ground, going north on Shun Pike. And then they're turning and there's the ditches on the side of the road that I live on, West 500 North, they're getting stuck in the ditches. that got stuck in the ditch and it almost slipped over. So they're like, I don't know if it's their like GPS taking them on their own road, but like they can't make the time and then they go into the ditch. And I was wondering if that was in your jurisdiction or if it's not, if you could point me to the right way to help.

And I believe that that's county. It's out in the area of work. Okay. I believe that's gonna be in the county's highway jurisdiction. but your comments are well taken.

Yeah, and thank you for coming up and talking to us about it. It takes a lot of courage. We don't get to see a lot of youth, so what you're doing is brave and appreciated.

Yeah, I want to thank you as well for coming, and if you would look up when the next Jefferson County Council meeting or the Jefferson County Board of Commissioners meeting is, that would be the best place to go and speak with them about that.

Thank you very much.

I'm trying to look it up for him. The regular meetings of the county council are the second Tuesday of every month at 5.30 p.m. And they meet on Green Road at the Jefferson County Public Safety Center. Okay, thank you.

You're welcome. Do we have any other comments from council this evening? Hearing none, our next regular council meeting is Tuesday, July 2nd. June 2nd, thank you. Here in council chambers. Do we have a motion to adjourn? I move to adjourn the meeting.

Do we have a second? I'll second.

All in favor? Aye.

Thank you.