Board of Zoning Appeals and City of Madison Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay. Well, we will call the roll here in a second. Welcome to Madison's Board of Zoning Appeals, November 10th, 2025. Could we have the roll call of the board, please? No rush. No rush. Marka here.

Thank you. It takes It takes a village, doesn't it? Mark Aosta here. Rick Ferris here. Scott Baldwin here. Carl Eagland here. Nancy Burkart here. Board members, have you had a chance to go over the minutes of last month's meeting? Are there any additions or corrections? None here. None.

I have one on uh page 2515. It was in the summary of new application BZCU-25-20. Rachel Headley presented a request to reszone her properties. Well, and then down a little lower, uh, person spoke in favor of this requested reszoning. It should be instead of reszoning, it should be changed to a conditional use permit. So, any other additions or corrections? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes with that correction.

Second. All in favor say I.

I oppose. No, there are approved. Uh, moving on to renewals of conditional use permits. Uh as of this meeting there were six renewals and renewals number 2 3456 have paid the renewal fee and so I have a question for staff. Number one was 3041 West Clify Drive Bear Homes one-year renewal. Uh has that been paid as of this meeting?

Uh I am unaware whether it has been paid or not but certainly uh we can make that we won't issue the conditional use until that is paid. Then I move that we approve conditional uses 23456 on the agenda. I move we renew their conditional uses. Second motion. All in favor say I. I oppose. No.

And for number one, which is BZCU-23-97 Baird Homes, 3041 West Clipy Drive, I move that we instruct sta appropriate staff members send them on the usual letter indicating they are in rears, but if they pay their fee and other charges by our next regular meeting, their conditional use will be renewed. That's my motion. Second. All in favor say I. I oppose. No. And that takes care of our renewals. I've got another number seven on there. Number seven. Yeah. Yes, you do.

And they had paid. So therefore, I move that we uh renew uh item number seven, Candace Carpenters 715 East Maine. I move we approve that. Second. All in favor say I. I. I I oppose. No. And they are renewed. And if you board members will permit me, uh, under old business, there were two items, two people who had not paid. As of last month's meeting, they have paid. So, just for the record, they are approved. Uh, moving on.

Mr. Chairman, I might uh suggest that uh if the board would would like to move on to new applications and come back to the tabled application until legal counsel has arrived for your question. Was that all right with you board members? Sure. Sure. And that's what we will do. Uh so moving on to new applications. The first item on the agenda, BZCU-25-22, Oyster Catcher LLC, uh, requesting a conditional use permit, 308 West 2nd Street under category 581. Yes, sir. If you could give your name and address for the record.

Ken McWills, 315 Popppler. And unfortunately, Oyster Catcher is my daughter. And so, she hadn't listened to me for 30 years. So, but I'm happy to support her now. She's had a Airbnb at 312 Popppler for the last three years and she's purchasing this pro property from the Freeman's. So, right behind us again. So, now we're surrounded by her and um 308 West 2nd Street. It's a house right next to the Sullivan House,

right? of board members. Do any of you have any comments? Have there been any problems with our first location? No, actually almost within the first month we had a group, you know, so we limited to six people, right? Uhhuh. But they had a group with like 10 teenage 15 year olds that stayed and that was the only time that's happened. So luckily, you know, there's only one Yeah. permanent resident to the north and it's But so no, it's been a delightful place. That's a pretty good record.

They're all old women. So yeah, they don't make a racket. I agree with you. So how many bedrooms is it? The new one is two. And then there's a separate carriage house that has a single bedroom. There's a carriage house off the alley. Pardon me. Is a carriage house off the alley back there? Yes, it is. Okay. Is there parking back there farther? There is one car. Yeah. Okay. Right off the alley. You have like a little garage with a little garage to the main house. But yes, so that's where that onecar parking spot is.

I would note board members that uh Rich and Sandy Freeman received a conditional use in October of 2016 and ran it for Nine years. Yes, they did. What was their maximum occupancy when they had it? Do you have I do not have that with me. So, the the main house is two bedrooms and the carriage house is a single bedroom. So, and they were really se seldomly connected in their rentals. So, they were always separate.

And generally, this board has approved two occupants per bedroom. Uh any other comments, questions, board members? No. So then are we making it six maximum occupancy or Well, that's your pleasure, board members. Whatever you think is reasonable. Uh would anybody in the audience like to speak for or against this proposed conditional use? I see no ground swell of here. As long as Mark and Kyle Carl stay silent, it's good.

One last chance. Board members. There has been a nine-year experience with this. Of course, that was under different owners, but I see no reason to believe things are going to change. I think in your application uh finding of fact number four and that's not the one. Oh, forget that. That's not the one. Okay. Well, one last chance. Oh, you can have a seat, sir. Thank you. Give me a minute here and we can go through our findings of fact board members as we've done lately. I will just read read down through each one and I'll just simply ask if anybody has any comments, any issues, any disagreements. Uh this is under category um think it's category 581 I think.

Yes. Yeah. 581. Uh number one, category 581. Any disagreements? No. No. No. Number two, uh harmonious with the comprehensive plan. Any issues? No. No. Number three, harmonious, appropriate in appearance, etc. Any issues? No. Number four, hazardous disturbing. Any issues? No. Number five, this is about uh utilities and everything. Any problems? No. Number six, uh detrimental to the economic welfare. Any issues? No. No. Uh number seven, excess production of traffic and other things. Any issues? No. No.

And I will note that the place has been operated similarly for nine years. So, and I see no reason believe things are going to change by operating standards. And number eight, uh, vehicular approaches to the property. Any problem? No. And number nine, loss or damage of historic stuff? No. No. No. But before before we entertain a motion, Yes. I do have a question. And this certainly

this really applies to all of these short-term rental applications. Um, do we do we have the ability to uh put an age requirement in the house rules? I'll direct that to our attorney on who can rent them or

the the age of the people that can rent the the short-term rentals. The reason I ask is because you're hearing more and more of these uh Airbnbs being rented by teenagers and and having parties at them. And I'm just wondering if that's a way that we could curb that.

Yeah. Sorry. I don't know if this board I mean I I mean I guess theoretically this board could do that. Um, it honestly might be something more along the lines of the city council taking a look at as as some kind of a overall ordinance that we would put in place to say certain rules as it pertains to Airbnbs and different things like that. Now, as I understand it, Airbnb itself, VBO, they have rules. Yeah.

And so, anything that is being utilized through those platforms is not supposed to allow for you have to be a certain age in order to do do that.

But how are these teenagers getting these houses rented? Well, they're a lot of times they do it through their parents and and then so um they're going outside the rules of of what should be done. It's no and you know I think it happens sometimes at hotels and and different things as well. Um so I think you know oh but that's not something the police are going to enforce or or or anything like that. And then I mean the question you know then is okay what do we do and how do we enforce that and you know maybe one way to do that through like when they come back for a conditional use if we're getting complaints or or or things like that. So um is that anything that's being addressed at all in the new zoning? Yeah, the new zoning ordinance that's being uh brought through the system, uh the committee has put in in there some short-term rental language as it relates to a registry. Um it's at least the step that we know we can do as a community to help understand where those are and and follow up as as I think Scott would tell you if we've had any um complaints against Airbnbs when they come back for their um conditional use renewal, we've let you know about that. and and you know, we tend I'm not sure we've gotten any this year that I'm aware of. So, uh I I do know the concerns. Uh but yeah, Airbnb and VBRRO have a number of supposed safeguards in to to stop that from happening. And quite honestly, unless the facility is large enough, it's usually, you know, most of the Airbnbs here in town are two-bedroom or some sort of smaller event space. There are a couple large ones, but if if you know of a situation u by all

No, I just happened to think of it as we were going through the findings of fact that but we will be addressing um in in the short term um and I think Mark you were on that committee too and so was Carl. We are addressing uh some new new uh zoning regulations on Airbnbs as it relates to

to the community. And the board traditionally, well, the board has almost universally insisted on submission and adherence to rules. And the part that's really relevant is quiet hours between 1000 p.m. and 8:00 a.m. and no parties. And in my experience, we have dozens and dozens of Airbnbs. And in my experience, we've had one complaint. So, whatever is going on is working. That does happen a lot.

Any other comments or questions, board members? I move we approve a conditional use permit for application BZ CU-25-22 subject to the following conditions one-year renewal period and second submission and enforcement of rules which will include at least uh quiet hours from 1000 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. and no parties. That's my rule or my motion. I'll second your motion. Can we have a roll call, please? Sorry. Mark Costa,

yes. Rick Ferris, yes. Scott Baldwin, yes. Carl England, yes. Nancy Burker, yes.

Well, sir, we wish you well. Second item on the agenda, BZCU-25-23, Chuck Moore on behalf of Bowlan Communications and State of Indiana. Conditional use permit for small cell utility pole category 476 relay towers etc. 3149 approximately Clifty Drive. And someone come up who's representing them if anybody. Well then we will with your permission board members we will give one last chance at the end of the meeting if someone shows up. Kindly remind me if I forget. Sure. Uh, third item on the agenda, uh, BZVD-25-13, David Joe Craig, requesting a variance from development standards to construct to the property line north side along Second Street, 0 foot setback, 11:45 West 2nd Street. If somebody could come up and give your name and address for the record, please, sir.

Uh, David J. Craig, the address of the the property we're talking about is 11:45 uh West Second. And uh I'm here to answer any questions. One moment here. Cell phone tower. Got to catch my papers up with you. Uh that's out I went by there today. That's out sort of in the middle of nowhere

on the north or on the south on the south side of West Second. They're kind of next to the looks like the well field and the sewage plant. Yeah, pretty much. I notice the place is already under construction. And you want uh your it says here finding a fact number two staff response. What you want this for is to increase port space.

Porch. There should have been a photo that was posted online and it looks something like this. I don't know if you saw that, but the existing porch there is on that line.

And I don't know what and that's wood. I don't know what was there before that, but what I want to do is to be able to make a porch there. And uh so it bring it out to six feet, which is the edge of there. And it will also bring out a little bit more of the eve. This first part of the eve juts out further than the west eve. So it would have to come out a few feet to be at the six feet to be right over top of the porch. How much further you want to come out, Joe? You said

I wanted this, of course, this part of this eve already comes out. I just want it to go out to the north. uh enough to get to the six feet. Six feet. You're saying six feet, which is the edge of the current front porch. Gotcha. Okay. But that would be I I did kind of a I don't know if you guys can see this, but I don't know if I've got that in there, but here's here's what it where it would be. And then I I would have a carport at that same distance, too. And so when you got out of your vehicle, you could walk across the front porch and go into the house and be covered by the six foot out there. Gotcha.

That That's what I'm looking for. You roughly How far is your line from the street? I've got that on here, too. And I took because I did notice that telephone pole, which I assume is the B your lot line. Yeah. And and so from the 6T porch going out there, uh it's 20 20 and 1/2 ft are or it might be 20 ft 5 in. I'm not sure. So it's 20 ft from the edge of your house to the edge of the pavement. No, it's 20 ft from the six foot. So it would be actually from the house itself, it would be 26 ft.

Okay. So, your porch is going to end up about how far from the pavement edge? 20 ft. 20 ft. Yeah. Okay. That's That's really wide, I thought, for for that. And you can kind of see just west of that, that's where the apartments are and that's where they also have it cut off. Uh right there. So, um it wouldn't change. Well, the the only thing that you would really notice is this may stick out a little bit further, a couple feet further. Uh it'd be a lot cleaner looking than what it is now. That's for sure.

It's not going to obstruct the corner visibility or anything of that nature. I can see you're quite literally all by yourself along in there. Actually, you know, um, of course you got the pump house down there and then there's that one other house on the corner there, right? On where McIntyre comes. That was my great-grandfather's house. Oh, it was. Yeah. So, we've got the only two houses down here. Any other questions or comments, board members? None here. Would anyone in the audience like to speak for or against this?

I'm Michael Chum. I live across the street. I'm just here because I wasn't sure exactly what he was. Well, if you want to have a say, come on up to the mic. I just I was unclear as exactly as what he was going to do. Yeah. And actually called and they didn't tell me much over the phone, so I thought, well, I'll come up. Well, I hope you're satisfied. I'm sorry. Are you satisfied? Understand? It sounds okay. But I saw it was going all the way to the street. I didn't exactly know. No. Yeah. He's got the best producing walnut tree I've ever seen. Fell off a trunk, huh?

Trunk trunk or tree. Yeah, it's amazing. Well, one last chance. Board members here. Nobody in the public. Well, you can have a seat, sir. Thank you. We will go through our three criteria for a variance. This is variance from developmental standards. And since this is variance board members, I will ask you to give a brief explanation of your opinion. Number one, injuries to the public, health, safety, general welfare, Mr. Ferris.

Uh, no, I don't believe so. I I think the uh I think the land uh in the included in the application is um kind of unique in that it doesn't doesn't pose any issues in that regard. Mrs. Burkhard, no. I think he's improving the property. Mr. Aosta, no. I don't see it impeding on anything that affects safety or anything of that nature. Mr. Eagland, I think it's a improvement to the neighborhood

and I see utterly no problems with this one. Number two, uh, adjacent areas property values, will it be affected badly, Mr. Ferris? I I don't believe it will. We haven't had anybody testify saying that it that it would be. So, Mrs. Burkhart, no, I see no effect to it. Mr. Aosta, no. Oh, no negative impact. It's a as everybody mentioned, it's an improvement to the area. Mr. Eagland, yes, like like was said before, I think it's an improvement to the neighborhood. So, everybody wins.

And I think that's almost a moot question because of what's in his side of the street there. I see no problem there. Number three, practical difficulties in the use of the property. Always the big one, Mr. Ferris. Well, I mean without the variance u the application u would probably be denied. So I think uh I think he he has to have the variance to make make this work. Mrs. Burkart, I agree with that comment. Mr. A costa.

Yeah, the strict application. You know, you could you could continue living in the house of course, but uh wouldn't be able to improve the property which uh was in in compliance with the comprehensive plan and such. So, Mr. Eagland, yes, I think the variance is appropriate this property and uh he's not asking anything out of the ordinary to put in a little place to park the car and walk to the house in shelter. So I think that that is sufficiently met. Uh I move we approve this variance as applied for. Second.

Second. And we have a roll call. Rick Ferris. Yes. Scott Baldwin. Yes. Carl Eagland. Yes. Nancy Burkhart? Yes. Mark Acasta? Yes. Sir, we wish you well. Uh, fourth item on the agenda. Uh, BZVD-25-14, Victoria Howard, variance from development standards for zero foot setbacks on Northeast West property lines to build a garage on existing pad by 10 West Main. And if you could give your name and address for the record, please ma'am.

Yes. Victoria Howard, 510 West Main Street.

And I do have a little update here. Um, Bumper Johnson is who I'm hiring to build this proposed garage. and he's telling me that originally he said it was a zero um lot line on the north side but now further investigated it's a twoft lot line on the north side and it is being proposed to be built on a current pad parking pad it's a three parking pad had right now and I wanted to have a twocar garage on there. It's just going to be one story.

So, you're changing your request to a twoft setback on the north side, but still zero on the east and west. Yes. On top of an existing foundation of some sort. Concrete pad sits on the alley back there, back of my house. And um so it's all my sides except the north side and then the alley side which is the west side. So I walked back there this afternoon and you have your big beautiful house and then you have look like a little porchy kind of a space and then a

pardon me I didn't hear what you said. You have, of course, the big house and then it looked like there was some sort of a porch space and then a a place where your car sat and then further back was a big enclosed green lawn almost. That's the neighbors, the north side that was purchased um from that original property years ago. Uh so that explains the beautiful fence along the alley. Yeah, that's the neighbor. Okay. I wondered. Nothing of mine. Um, yeah. And then on the east side of your property, along the east side of your house, you have those twotory like sitting areas.

Verandas. And then like a verandas. Yeah. And then a strip of kind of gardens and pretty trees and such. Yeah. Raw iron fence. And so that fence is your east lot line. Yes. And your west lot line. And it lines up with the edge of your house pretty much. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Got a picture in my head now. So you said one story, twocar garage. Yes. 9 ft tall. And you're going to be then two feet away from your neighbor's wall, lot wall, lot area. Yeah. Yes.

Okay. Any questions, comments, board members? None here. And obviously nobody in the audience is going to speak unless the press has an urgent issue.

Oh, is there uh Okay. Well, thank you, ma'am. You can have a seat. And this is a variance from developmental standards. So we will go through the three criterion. Uh each of you state why you believe what you believe. First one injurious to public health. Mr. Ferris. No, I don't believe uh it'll be injurious to any of those things. I think it'll be an improvement to the property. Mrs. Burkhard, I see no issue with that one.

Mr. Aosta, yeah, I think uh be an just improvement with no issues of safety or general welfare. Mr. Eagland, I agree with comments and I see no issues at all with this one. I think it's met. Number two, uh adversely affecting property values in the area, Mr. Ferris. No, I I think you know it'll it'll add value to the uh neighbors properties because you're going to have a nice nice new garage here. Mrs. Burkart, I see no issue with that one. Mr. Aosta, yeah, definitely just an improvement. Mr. Eagland, I agree. That's an improvement.

And we certainly heard no testimony from anybody who believe they would be harmed by this. I think that one's met. uh practical difficulties in the use of the property, Mr. Ferris. Um well, without the variance, um the east and west lot lines are are uh a deal breakaker. So that that's why they're here seeking a variance. Mrs. Burkhard. Yeah, I agree with that comment. Mr. Mr. Rocasta. Yeah, I I don't see any uh any issue at all. Mr. Eagland,

I agree that we the variance is necessary for this property and given the realities of downtown that you're supposed to have a three-foot setback when your house 150 years ago was built on the lot line. I I think that one's amply met. Uh, we'll take a motion. I'll make a motion we approve the application. I lost it for the garage we were just talking about. There.

Yeah, okay. BZ B-25-14. I've caught up now. Second. Okay. And roll call. Mark Costa, yes. Nancy Burkhard, yes. Carl Eagland, not here. Not here. And Rick Ferris, yes. And me, too. Me, too. Well, ma'am, you have your variance. I get a paper.

Uh, yes, you will. You'll have to see somebody in the staff. they will mail you a a paper and file the variance with the county recorder. So, just talk to staff member. Anymore, they go out pretty quickly. Well, let's see. We had put off uh number two not here and he's not here. So I move that we table application BZCU-25-23 till our next regular meeting. Second. All in favor say I.

I oppose. No. And you had requested that the previously tabled application be considered last. And I see nobody here. Well, the rules are you get three tries. So, next time will be the third and then you got to reapply. So, I move we postpone uh that would be BZCU-25-21 till our next regular meeting. Second. And all in favor say I.

I oppose. No. It passes and we had previously I had brought your attention about the old business. So, is there anything else I've forgotten? I don't think so. And we can Yeah. Yeah. The only I wasn't here at the beginning. Were there any letters that we need to send out on the uh the renewal? Yes, we got one. Okay. On the uh let's see, you can tell me on item number one. All right. I just wanted to make sure Tony could tell me. So, that's good. Thank you. And thank you gentlemen for being here and helping us out. Well, since that's it, motion to adjurnn.

Second. I guess I made a motion to adjourn. All in favor say I. I. I. No. We are adjourned. You even think motion to adjurnn. It's over. I guess mention the magic word. I'll get one more of these. Scott. One more. One more meeting. You only have one more.