Commissioners - Regular Meeting

At this time, I'd like to call the October Mack County Board of Commission meeting to order. And I think we'll get right to it. At this time, Miss Tammy, do you have any announcements? I do. I have a couple. The first one is just a reminder that the November board meeting will be on Thursday, November the 13th. that was per your approved schedule this year because November the 11th is Veterans Day. And then we have a special call joint meeting with the board of um education on October the 21st at 9:00 a.m. here in the boardroom.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Cab. So, Mr. Chairman, I actually have two. Uh the first one I'm not really pleased to have to announce, but tonight will be the last regular meeting for Miss Lorie Carpenter. Uh Mrs. Carpenter is going to retire at the end of the month. Um and I just want to express my appreciation to her. She's been a an asset to us in Mon County. She she has kept us with an impeccable financial record and she will certainly be missed. uh we want to certainly wish her the best as she goes on into some other endeavors, but she's certainly been a a true asset to us and she's been a a benefit to me to to help walk me through this process from from what I got thrown into and it's just been a a pleasure to work with her and I I certainly regret to see her go, but but wish her the best.

She's been incredible, Miss Lori. And Mr. Chairman, my second announcement. Obviously, we cannot be without a uh finance officer. So, effective November the 3rd, uh, Miss Lindseay Leopard, uh, I have made her the interim finance director for Mon County. uh and I'm confident with the the abilities that she has and I'm confident that we'll we'll still be in good hands and she will maintain the levels of excellence that we have have come to expect. Thank you, Mr. Cab. Welcome, Mr. Leopard.

All right, Commissioner Breeden. I don't have anything. Commissioner Antoine, uh M. Lori, we're going to miss you. Thanks for all your help and what you've done. Thank you so much. Yeah, Miss Laura, I wish you the best in retirement. Mr. Shields, I'd like to make you mic on.

Yeah, he would tell me I don't talk loud anyway. Um, I'd like to make one announcement. It's on the consent agenda, which is the last thing we do, and I'm afraid you're going to be gone. uh you'd leave. But anyway, u tonight we'll ask for approval of a resolution uh supporting Operation Greenlight for Veterans uh here in Mon County. And um and the the dates for that will be from November the 4th to Veterans Day, November the 11th. Let me just read you a little piece here. Uh be honest about it. I'm guilty. Last year I dropped the ball on this. This year I'm going to make up for it. uh being a veteran. Um this this is basically there's um and m I'll get you something by the paper in the morning after we get this approved tonight. Uh the says be it further resolved I'm going to have to eat that thing. Be it further resolved that in observance of operation green light, Mon County encourages its citizens and patriotic tradition to recognize the importance of honoring all those who made immeasurable sacrifices to preserve freedom by displaying a green lights and I'm sure one's fine too, but it says it's plural green lights in a window of their place of business or residence from November the 11th. No crction November 4th through November the 11th and I want to hit the street tomorrow trying to get this movement going. I've been talking with some uh people making sure last year reason I dropped the ball was I didn't have any blue lights and I didn't alert the the people that hey we we need to go ahead and order some. So, I've

been uh talking with some people. They're in the process of ordering their blue lights. And so, uh as we move on to this uh it it's a it's a it's a great honor to to have this um duty. Uh and I'll be working on that tomorrow and I'll be going by and see our media people and uh giving them uh Mr. Young's signature on one of these sheets tomorrow for tomorrow. And I want to say thank you for being here. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Shields. Commissioner Sher,

Miss Lori, I just like to thank you as well. It's you're very big asset and have been for many, many years. I've had the pleasure of working with you the last three years and keeping us up to par. So, thank you very much, Mr. Legal Council.

All right. This time I'd like to ask Commissioner Shields to lead us in a moment of silence in the pledge of allegiance. Let us stand. Please salute to the flag. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you.

All right. At this time, we have three four public hearings. I'd like to ask Miss Darlene to come up. Thank you. And uh the first one is our 5311 grant. That's the normal grant we get every year from the feds. Um it's an 8510 grant. Our allocation is given to us by the state. So we don't ask for money. This this is just what we're going to get. and the county shares 15% but it could be 10% if if state puts money in. Um the match on this grant is or the grant is $230,232 is our allotment. The match will be 34,535.

Perfect. All right. This time I'd like to open the public comment. I'm sorry. Open the public hearing. Um, do we have any No one has signed up to speak. I understand nobody signed up to speak. Would anybody like to speak? All at this time, I'm going to close public hearing. Chairman like to make a motion to approve the 5311 admin grant as presented. I hear a motion by Commissioner Shur. Second, second by Commissioner Shields. Any other discussion? Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by raising your right arm, stating I. I. Any oppose? All right, Tammy, please let the record reflect 50.

All right, public open hearing number two. The next one is a 5310 operating grant. This grant supplies funds to uh elderly and disabled persons. We're asking for 300,000 on this grant. It's a 50/50 grant. the 150,000 that would be the match will be matched with our rope funds and Medicaid funding and possibly our block grant funds. So, it's transit covers the match. Thank you. This time I'd like to open the public hearing. Anybody signed up to speak? No.

Nobody signed up to speak. Would anybody like to speak? Hearing none, I'll close the public hearing. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion to approve the 5310 elderly and or disabled grant as presented. I hear a motion by Commissioner Shur. Second. Second by Commissioner Antoine. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by raising your right arm, stating I. I. Any oppose? Miss Tammy 5. All right. Item number three,

capital grant. This allows uh systems to buy capital projects. Um on this grant for FY27, we will be replacing one 22 ft cutaway. Um that includes the lift and all that plus the lettering, the propane conversion. And we're also asking for the replacement of four desktop PCs and monitors that have reached their will have reached their life by 27. The total for this grant is $167,532. The match on this grant is $16,754.

Thank you. At this time, I'd like to open the public hearing. Has anybody signed up to speak? Would anybody like to speak? I like these. At this time, I'll close the public hearing. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to approve the combined capital grant as presented. I hear a motion by Commissioner Shur. Second. Second by Commissioner Antoine. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by raising your right arm, stating I. I. Any oppose? 5. Miss Tammy. All right. Item D,

concept grant. This is what has been funding our WNC Express that runs to Asheville Monday through Friday. Uh from 10 to 2. Uh we're asking for 200,000. This is a 50/50 grant. The 100,000 match will come from the billing from Jackson County, Swain, and Haywood County, and from fairs from our passengers. Thank you. This time I'd like to open the public hearing. Nobody signed up to speak. Would anybody like to speak? Hearing none, I'll close the public hearing. Entertain a motion.

I would like to make a motion to approve the concept grant as presented. Hear a motion by Commissioner Cheryl. Second. Second by Commissioner Antoine. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by raising your right arm, stating I. I. Any oppose? All right, we're 50 again, Miss Tammy. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Darlene. All right, moving on. Additions to the agenda. Anybody? All right, we'll enter into the public comment period. All right, we have four speakers. Gosh, I believe that's Pearl. I'm sorry if it's not Pearl Phillips.

Am I right? Yes. Thank you.

Good evening, gentlemen. I come before you tonight as a member of this community whose heart is broken and soul is burdened. In the last month in western North Carolina, three women have lost their lives violently to domestic violence. I myself have been a survivor of domestic violence and almost lost my life two years ago. I have spoken to Mayor Horton and gotten the proclamation from him and I presented him with a flag to show a support for October being domestic violence awareness month. And I come before this board to ask the county to do the same. I have a copy of the proclamation that I gave Mayor Horton and I also have flags for the county to fly that my family, the Duncans, is donating. There's five flags for each of the districts of uh Mon. Domestic violence is an issue that is seldom talked about. We know it's there, but it's a prevalent health crisis that gets little acknowledgement. And while you might think that even though it's not something that's prevalent in our county at this time, as far as the homicide rate goes, it is very much so an issue. I pulled some statistics from the North Carolina Department of Public Safety violence profile for Mon County that was published April of this year. And the profile was from 2020 to 2023. And it stated that 42% of all homicide deaths in Mon County involved in argument or conflict. And they further broke down the statistic to state that exactly one in three male homicides were prep precipitated by another crime and exactly one in three fe female homicide deaths involved intimate partner violence. The data for 2024 is still pending but in 20 2023 min had 39

violent crimes. The most common violent crimes were aggravated assault at 59% and rape at 25.6%. And it would be my hope and prayer that this county would see the issue and the health crisis and the plight that this has become on our community and our surrounding western North Carolina counties and that it would do the proclamation and fly the flags and support an awareness of domestic violence because it's through awareness of domestic violence and shining a light on the issues that will bring more awareness to it and hopefully stop the public health crisis.

That's incredible. Thank you for your time and courage. Can I have the proclamation and and maybe even the flags? Can I have all that? Thank you. [Music] Thank you for doing this. Thank you. I think I'll I'll make copies and share with the board. And uh I don't see any big problems. Do you guys see any problems? No. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Sch. All right, Miss Betsy Based.

Evening, gentlemen. Thank you for allowing us to speak. Good to see you. I am here to speak in support of positive shelter volunteers. you have a very large proposal in your packet tonight of what the um organization plans to do in taking over the animal shelter. And I hope that you consider that very seriously and with a positive outlook on what they've put together for that. And I have one question. Where's our pickle ball courts? Like to know that. Like to know that. Thank you, Miss Betsy.

All right, Bill McC. Mr. Bill McCartney, you're up.

Good evening. Thank you all. Uh I'm here tonight speaking on behalf of the Mon County Water Quality Advisory Committee, which presently consists of nine individuals. Each of us expert in one or another field related to the types of environmental issues Mon County frequently faces. Uh our members, eight of us residents of Mon County plus one from Swain County, offer experience and expertise in fields including agriculture, aquatic biology, civil uh civil forensic and structural engineering, fluial geomorphology, governance, hydrarology, law, livestock management, natural history, stream restoration, whitewater rafting, and I probably forget a few. Uh following the disappointing experience that Mon County had post Helen with the core of engineers, we decided that we should volunteer our services as consultants to county government including the board of commissioners so that we can all be better prepared for whatever is the next environmental problem which will confront us. And on July 15th, we sent a letter uh to Mr. Cape which he subsequently shared with the commission offering our services uh free of charge uh to consult on any issue which lies within the realm of our collective expertise. Uh one of you commissioner Shields expressed a uh interest in discussing this offer as part of a regular commission meeting and we had hoped to see it on a subsequent commission agenda. To date, 3 months later, we have received no formal acknowledgement of our offer. Now, we're familiar with the word busy. Uh we know what it means and your agenda for this evening exemplifies that you too are busy. We understand. Nevertheless, we remain hopeful of

getting some positive feedback from the commission on this matter. And just to reiterate and underline, we are not talking about paid professional consultancy and we however no ambition to be involved in regulatory functions. We're offering our help on a voluntary consultative basis as citizens and experts. Now to move the ball down a little further down the field, I was going to introduce one of our other members, Katie Price, a hydraologist. She here yet? If not, I think I can get uh Carolyn Porter to read her statement. She wanted to talk about one particular issue uh in this category. Um so that pretty much covers what I have to say. Uh again, I'm open to discussion with anybody anytime and we all are. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Bill. Oh, I brought just in case. Here's some copies of what I had to say. There aren't enough to go around, so please don't fight over them. I didn't sign them, so they're not real valuable.

All right, Katie Price.

No, come on up. No problem. I'm glad that Miss Price sent me her statement. I'm Carolyn Porter. I'm another member of the committee u legal educator Southwestern Community College for many years and uh I will not be delivering this with my usual polish that I saved for my students because uh I wasn't expecting to speak to you tonight. But uh Miss Price, who's the executive director of the watershed association of the Takosi River Water, um uh that organization works to protect water quality throughout the Tuxedi River system. And of course, there are parallels with our desire to protect the upper little Tennessee system. Both are headwatered uh whose clean rivers are essential to recreation, tourism, property values, um and sustain our regional economy. Miss Price wanted to highlight one concern that we all share that is water quality. Uh she notes that the Little T has a persistent E.coli contamination issue with all but one Mon County water monitoring site exceeding the safe swimming level um because of E.coli contamination uh 60% of the time and that includes Parker Meadows even all the way up there on Cartuk J. This is public data. um it directly affects how visitors and residents might view the safety of our waters and uh the choices they make about recreating here. Um they see the same challenges on the Texas and so our community by having membership from both counties we all benefit from that. She notes that the primary source tends to be human. While wildlife and livestock contribute ecoli to our water systems, failing septic systems and leaky wastewater infrastructure are are common uh source points. She says once the bacteria enter the river, they can be established in the sediment and just keep reappearing every time flows rise or you have a flood event. Um that keeps

counts chronically high. She says that she adds that means erosion and sediment control aren't just aesthetic or engineering issues but are essential for ongoing water quality linked to our public health and our economy. She notes that addressing these problems would protect both our water and our region's reputation for our clean and exceptional rivers which we all enjoy. Um, she offers this as an example and our whole group offers this as an example of ways that we could come together with our services to help benefit Mon County and the Little Tennessee wershed. Thank you. Thank you. All right, that wraps up public comment.

Any adjustments to the agenda? Hearing none. Looking to entertain a motion to approve the agenda. Hear a motion by Commissioner Breeden. Second. Second by Commissioner Antoine. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor, please raise your right arm. State I. I. Any opposed? 50. Miss Tammy.

All right. Moving on. Reports and presentations. North Carolina Association of County Commissioners. Heroic Hands. Um, celebrating public service world. I'm sorry. Celebrating public service award, Miss Tammy Kzer. I had to ask Mr. Cave to assist me because this is a twoperson 202425 North Carolina Association Accounting Commissioners President T. Davis launched the heroic hands initiative earlier this year, which was designed to honor the often unseen but deeply felt contributions of county staff, and the essential roles of public service workers. Nominees reflect the profound difference they make in their role, the lives they touch through their service, their dedication, and the positive impact they make in their county every day. The North Carolina Association of County Commissioners published a book with the recipients and their nomination letter. Mon County is pleased to recognize Miss Polly Crunkleton, HR specialist, is our recipient for this award. Paulie, will you come forward? You guys stand. you guys stand up here. So, we have a plaque for um Miss Paulie and a service coin from the North Carolina Association of County Commissioners. I'm going to give you that and then I'm going to read her nomination letter that was submitted for her. In October of 2024,

Polly Crunkleton began helping a county employee file for disability retirement through the local government retirement system after he was diagnosed with a medical condition that left him unable to speak or work. Paulie communicated with him by written notes, text, emails, becoming his advocate and voice with medical providers, county departments, and the North Carolina retirement system. While the employee had no income from October to January, Polly continued supporting him by submitting required documents, organizing a food drive, and sharing resources for assistance. In March 2025, she contacted North Carolina Representative Carl Gilispy's office, and by April, 6 months after he became unable to work, the employee received his first check with backay. Pauliey's persistence, compassion, and advocacy ensured a positive outcome. Her selfless dedication exemplifies her commitment to the employees and citizens of Mon County and makes her a deserving recipient of the heroic hands award. Thank you. Thanks. One, two, three. One, two, three. [Music] That's incredible. Thank you, Miss

Polly. All right. Positive shelter volunteers proposal for assuming operations of the animal shelter. County manager Cab and Meg Reamer volunteers.

Mr. Chairman, I just want to introduce the positive volunteer group. We had asked uh we actually put an RFP for proposals several months ago to see if anybody be interested in providing us with a proposal to operate our uh animal shelter and this is the one proposal that we received. Uh Commissioner Cheryl and Commissioner Braden and myself have already met with her and went over her proposal and we felt like it was prudent tonight for her to come and give you a general summary of the proposal that she had presented. So Meg, floor is yours. Hello and thank you so much for this opportunity to present hopefully what will be a uh winning formula for Mon County, the animals of Mon County and positive shelter moving forward. I would assume or presume that in this meeting we are not going to be getting into the nitty-gritty specifics. I hope that you have at least been able to sort of glean the the general contents of our proposal. I'd be happy to get into more specifics if you wish, you know, wish me to do that. But for tonight, what I was really hoping to emphasize was where I see things moving forward and why I feel this is actually going to be beneficial for you as well as us and especially for the animals and the welfare of the animals in Mon County and the owners of the animals in Mon County. because you know there's a uh a very large constituency of of animal lovers in our county and uh we want to do right by the animals that come into our care. So one of the key components of what I feel we bring to the board is our experience um positive shelter volunteers has been side by side boots

on the ground so to speak with the uh employees at the shelter on a daily basis caring for the animals. Um, I actually have 11 of them at my own home right now that I'm caring for um to help them through their illnesses, help them grow um in in safety and comfort. Um, all of our volunteers bring special uh gifts to the table in terms of their contributions, whether it's socializing, walking, caring for the dogs, helping to clean, feed when we are always short staffed. Um and uh with that knowledge um knowing how the shelter currently runs, I feel that we can bring to the table some very good ideas on how to improve the function of the shelter and the efficiency of the shelter for future use. I look at it as this is going to be a collaborative effort between county and 501c3 which is what we are. Um, the reason why I see this as being a win-win is being collaborative. You guys are limited. Being a municipality, you have your funding, you have your budget, you have, you know, limited uh, resources, and that's understandable. Being a 501c3, I feel that what we can do and what I have passed out, in case you're wondering, is some of my um uh ideas for potential renovations in the near future that I see would be beneficial to the function at the shelter. Um the beauty of that is um I believe with having the 501c3 many of these projects can be funded in terms of the uh resources needed. For example, the kennels, our runs. We have

many kennels and runs where we're always at capacity or over capacity. Many of those runs and kennels aren't even operable. Um, we have literally some of them held together with boards and zip ties to just be able to house an animal in them. And I get that funding is limited from the county standpoint. However, a 501c3 being on board and in the building can reach out for grants and there are many foundations and I already have a really great uh gale. In fact, we've already reached out and successfully uh obtained a grant for spayneuter program um $15,000 worth which without even having this yet in place. So, our hope is to be able to reach out to these foundations as the approval is given for some of these uh ideas, new kennels, um uh housing, uh uh playyards, um anything like that, we can reach out to these foundations because I will tell you this from having done this before, which I was the executive director of a shelter in the Chicago area for 26 years, um there is nothing these foundations love more than a really ugly before picture and a really pretty after picture and I feel that I can actually bring that experience to the table. We have uh my my ex-husband and I also ran many multiple vet veterary clinics so I'm familiar with the um animal husbandry housing um sourcing of those specific uh needs. So when I say collaborative, I'm hoping that from our standpoint, we can bring in the funding, we can assist with the um generation of, for example, bringing in um a food vendor uh into our program to help provide food for the animals. Um take that off of the budget.

Um, in the meantime allow the county then to bring in and by taking the animal control aspect out of the shelter and leave the shelter to run as a 501c3 with ultimately and it may be an optimistic goal but I hope it's an attainable goal of a no kill shelter someday. um we are we strive every day um to to achieve that already uh with without those resources. So, what I would like to do is um you know something that Warren had asked me when we first met on this um he said let's just say we get the green light let's do this tomorrow what do you need to have to move forward and that was a very valid question and from that standpoint one of the very first things I would say if I was going to take this over in terms of management and overseeing the shelter we need the animal control to be under the jurisdiction of the sheriff's department. End of story. Historically, that's where it's been. Most have it there. Um I'm not sure how it ended up not being there. Um that's before my time. Um and and speaking of time, what is my time? Okay. But uh um I will not take on that responsibility. These animal control officers literally go out and risk their lives on a daily basis with little or no support right now. They need the legal backing of the sheriff's department behind them to do the job right. And so when I take this on, I'm looking at that as one of the key prongs. We already have Officer Fosler who is willing to step up to

oversee animal control. The officers love her. She's a volunteer for positive shelter. She does, you know, she's fostering some of our pups right now. Um, she knows our program inside and out. She would be able to from within the sheriff's department oversee it properly and take care of these guys like they deserve because these guys are are worth their weight and gold. Um, so that would be pretty much the very first line in the sand that I would like to say must happen in order for this project to move forward from our standpoint. Um, there's a lot of other smaller specifics. For example, one of the things that I look to is we want to build a stronger staffing. I think we can do that. Uh, I've put the numbers together in the bud budget. We've gone over them. It's going to be tight, but again, I'm hoping with do being able to um reach out and run some donation uh deal of fundraisers, bring in grant money, whatnot, um my hope is that at some point we will be able to have the proper staffing in place. But knowing that there's going to be some transition, some transitory period if we do end up taking this over. I want you to understand because I am not in the shelter per se. I am not running the shelter per se. I cannot reach out to these entities. There's going to be a lag. I want to make sure people like Isabelle, our shelter manager, um her assistant Alex, uh whoever we do hire in that they are going to be taken care of in the interim while this transition is happening. So that's why in my proposal I specifically listed or or mentioned a safety net of sorts. Um, for example, one of the things if we are

talking more on a specific level that I would love to see is I need to do some research and find out how I'm going to take care of benefits, um, health insurance, things like that for a very small staffing. I've heard there's options out there, but I need to look into them. There hasn't been a point for me to look into them without knowing whether or not we're moving forward. So, once I have that green light, all of these things can kind of fall in place. But one of the things I would ask for, you know, on a specific level for the county to consider is for our two employees that do wish to stay on board with the shelter, can we look into a COBRA coverage for them, for example, um through the county to take care and make sure that they are going to be okay until we can get up and running, get our ball rolling um adequately to to take over on programs like that. So when I talk about collaborative, that's the side of the county that I'm hoping I'm going to get the support, especially in the beginning to move forward with this project. Um it's a big undertaking. Um but I feel that we all have our hearts in the right place. We want to do right. We want to see the shelter uh to be a uh basically something that is looked at with pride in the community. And um I think we have a lot of a lot of the right components on board already to move forward with that. So with that being said, um are there any specific questions um things that are that need clearing up uh that I can answer before I

I just wanted to say I'm I'm really impressed with your information that you sent out to us. A lot of work goes into that. But I believe I read in there. Isn't that your daughter? No. I wish you was. I thought it said your you and your daughter were No, we actually have So I My name is Meg Kramer. Um this is Isabelle Evans. Carrie Pascquinn is the treasurer, interim treasurer for our board and that is her daughter. So Okay. All right. Carrie brings the uh the numbers and the accounting uh end of it. uh into our

and I think we all realize we've humanized animals. I'm the worst. I talk to my cat just like I talk to my wife and it talks back to me and I give it food whatever he wants and so I appreciate what you've done here and uh I hope we can move forward with it. Thank you. Um Sheriff, did the animal shelter used to be They did. Yes, sir. When did that change? seven maybe. I'm not for sure to be honest with you. I think

Yeah, I think that's pretty close. Um it was underneath the sheriff, then it was standalone, then it went back went to the health department because there were some concerns about some the rabies vaccination process and that was the solution at the time was to put it under the health department. I've gotten a lot of calls about this. I absolutely would support for that to take place for that to go back under the sheriff's department. I was saying there would be a ask associated with that and I'd like to sit down with my two liaison

because first and foremost there's not a a a general statute in place that would compel me to take that. Just make that clear. So again, I would like to sit down with my two liaison and discuss that as But when I I will echo what she said about Deputy Foser. She would be absolutely amazing. She has been amazing. She's actually um I think the first time she put one in in in local jail for say 30 days for misuse of a of a horse. So uh yeah, first offense for this lady. She she went to jail for 30 days which she should have. The horse was very poor. I don't see how that four horse is still alive. But

again, I'd like to sit down with you two maybe the end of this week, beginning of the next. Sounds good. And just speak about that ask.

Well, I think it's also um important to know that we are not required to have this. We are not required to have animal services. We are not required to have animal control. We are required by law to have a dangerous dog board. Is that correct? So, um, and and I hate to say it, I understand what these port officers have gone through over the last several years of not having any really authority to do anything. They go out there, this neighbor's ticked off at that neighbor, um, and they're trying to mediate this problem and they have no authority to do so. and um and so I feel their pain.

But if we're going to have it, it needs to work and right now it's not working. So whatever that looks like, I mean, you know, if the sheriff says, "Hey, I don't want it." then that we need to look at something else to u but in my opinion animal services need to go back to a nonprofit with some staffing with the volunteers and um and not to say anything about Isabelle. I know I've been over there several times and um and the work that they're doing and they're they're strapped and um and they're doing the best they can, but I really truly think with a few committed paid staff members and volunteers at a nonprofit, the animals in make county take care of much better.

Thank you for what you're willing.

Thank you. And I do I I 100% agree with you. Um and I do feel um taking this on especially initially there's going to be a lot of work to be done but I do look forward to us working a lot smarter not necessarily a lot harder down the road and I think it's going to be beneficial um this idea of separation of of services the animal control where they get the support they need. I've already, in fact, if you um had a chance to glance at the blueprints, I've already sort of marked off and talked with uh Travis. Uh and you know, I hate to tell you, on all of those projects, he didn't tell me no on any of them. But the good news is is none of them are massive. We're talking basically using what is there and just improving. Um uh making it better, making things flow better. Um utilizing doorways and through passes to lower the amount of time that it takes to take care of a a room of animals. um the animal control I've actually taken and sort of built or or described the idea of a separate wing with a coded lock um where only the the animal control officers can go in whether it's 2:00 in the morning on a Sunday, whatever. That's their area. They'll have all of the supplies they need. They have their kennels. They have the cages that they would need. And the only ones that are allowed in there then would be the employees once the animal control officers communicate with them what's going on with the ex with the specific animals. So the idea that we would have a wing that is designated for their use and their use only so that the guys can do what they need to do and the sheriffs can you know they're not going to be dealing with um you know housing the animals or anything like that. I'm I've I've got that planned for in our you

know in the confines of the existing building. Um so that would be one of the very first projects that I would hope that we would look at if we do get the approval to to move forward in that direction and have animal control separate that we would look into the idea of getting that wing built and uh up and running as quickly as possible. And I'm like Mr. Shields. Uh my animals I have five three um rescue dogs. Nice.

So every night I have five dogs sleeping in my bed and they're down this side, this side, across my feet, everywhere else. And I get it. And yeah, so I mean I have a wild turkey that will come running to me. So my deer, my turkey, um all those I just feed all of them all the time. So, it's just a I'm an animal lover and the only thing that I would like and it may be in part of the plan is um anytime I think that uh taxpayers funds are put into a a nonprofit organization, a non-governmental organization, there should be checks and balances by the county. So, I would I would ask that um if this moves forward that the county is still involved in where your funds are and

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, I'm like I said, I'm hoping this is going to be a a team effort, a collaborative effort from the get-go. I don't see how it can work otherwise.

So, yeah. And with that being said, yes, um I I am presenting this with the idea that we will be supporting the efforts of the shelter and that you will be supporting our efforts and that's that's a given. So, and with that I want to I would love to quote um the eloquent lyric lyrics of uh Rush where they say and the men who hold high places must be the ones who start to mold a new reality closer to the heart. And I'm looking to all of you to keep that in mind as we move forward, especially with the idea that we have tentatively uh selected a name for our shelter which would be Heart of the Mountains Adoption and Rescue.

Okay, wonderful. Appreciate you. So, any other comments from the board?

Uh what about a time frame? We say yes. What's that time frame? A lot of that would depend on what happens with animal control. Um, being able to give them the wing that they need. Uh, if I have the crew to do it, and Travis said I do, um, I can get the kennels in. Um, we had talked tentatively about January 1st. I don't know if that's way too soon, if that's way too optimistic, but um you know, moving forward, I know this we're all on board. We're ready to do it. I'm ready to do it.

I I'll add to that. I think our initial conversation, I think we were thinking probably a 90day window would be the minimum. Of course, obviously, we have to develop a uh a contract which would include the provisions that Commissioner Cheryl was talking about. Um, and then process how the uh the transfer of funds would work and and get some things in order. So, I'm I'm thinking it would be a minimum 90 days from the time that you made that decision. It could be more depending on what other issues we might run into. Well, thank you for your presentation, okay, and your time and volunteerism. Um, I think we've got some wrinkles to iron out and I think we'll be in touch. That's great. It's wonderful. And if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. I think Sheriff Hullbrooks is ready to go right now. Right. Go catch a dog. All right. Old business update on Burning Town Fire Department. Manager Caden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, I just want to give you a really quick update on the uh fire protection services in the Burning Town, Iowa community. Uh obviously, since our last meeting, we've entered into a uh contract to have those services provided by Cali Volunteer Fire and Rescue. Um Eric and I participated in a mediation session with them the following week. Um and all parties, uh those folks brought the board of directors in, brought the leadership in. Uh we sat down went through a mediation process and all parties agreed to an assignment of assets, debts and indemnity agreement uh to transfer the assets that are currently there that the those residents have have paid for to keep those in that community to provide service and there were some provisions in that agreement to make sure that that that did take place. Um the deed to the Davees Creek station has been transferred over to Cowi Fire and Rescue's name. The other station which was on Iowa Church Road actually sits on leased properties with a third-party property owner. Uh we did negotiate an assignment of lease with that. So that lease has actually been signed over. Uh there was a some days in the agreement to that assets had to be inventoried and uh all the everything transferred over and keys transferred and we actually had staff um there today and as of 6:50 p.m. today those folks have completed that inventory uh got those assets transferred over completed the inventory to make sure everything was there and to make sure that was a smooth process. So, just wanted to make you aware of that that that service has been continued to be provided in that area. Uh, we're confident that it will will meet the needs of the folks in that community and hopefully will even get better as time goes on. Um, I think one of the provisions we discussed was a community meeting. So, I think that's going to

come fairly quickly to let folks down there know what's going on. Um, couple things to keep in mind. Obviously, this was a uh a true test of our contract. Um, one of the things we may want to do in the upcoming 3 to 6 months or 9 months is is take a good hard look at that contract that we have to make sure it meets what we need it to do to see if there's anything we want to any changes we want to make in that. Anything we want to may have learned out of this that we want to uh to go with going forward. Uh obviously fire protection is is serious business and we've we've been through some pretty serious situations in the last 12 months and I think we want to going forward we want to see how to address those to make sure that that we don't have that situation pop up again. I know we're not the only ones. Um I spoke to Kevin King who's the manager in Jackson County. They're looking at um some changes to their system particularly on the financial end. They're looking at doing a uh service fee like we are. They don't they don't have a service fee for all their area. They're looking at how that would affect them over there. Um we've had some conversations. Swain County is looking at adding some staff, but they're going to make those folks county employees instead of uh with the fire departments. Um we that's something we had thought about several years ago. We just never never really got there with it. Um, so I think the timing is good for us even though the situation wasn't ideal. Um, I think we I think going forward we we use it as a learning experience and we try to make our our system better as we go forward. chairman. Um I know there's been a lot of stuff out there on social media and in the newspapers and such. Um and the responsibility of this board

is to make sure that the folks in each district has the protection that they're paying for. And we were lacking that um u in this district. and we move forward after uh many opportunities for them to improve. But um I think it's also um I'm I'm really appreciative of the work that the Jimmy and everybody's done to make this transition, Eric, you and everybody um to get this process finalized because um it was very worrisome um knowing that people didn't realize in Burning Town community they really didn't have protection that they were paying for. Um, also a lot of the members from Burningtown Fire Department has applied for membership to continue to serve. Um, which is absolutely awesome that they were um, willing to do it. They're there to serve the people, not serve the fire department. Um and the um now that the merge has happened, I really feel that the um uh the taxpayers and the property owners are now going to receive class number one protection that we were lacking for a little while. Um and and to be honest with you, I hope Burning Town um service is the best in the county. So that's I I just I just think it was sad to see it happen, but it had to happen. It there was no no other way out. And so thank you.

Anybody else?

All right. Uh so in your packet you were provided um several nonprofits that applied for the community funding pool. At this time um I'd like to ask Commissioner Breed and Commissioner Antoine maybe for some discussion and approval of community funding pool applications. So, we received uh five applications for uh the community funding pool. Um several of these I think all of these except for the last one have applied in the past and received funds. Um so roughly what we've put on the approval sheet here for everyone to look at is um it gives amount requested and the amount that we recommend and the total approval amount is $37,000 uh 10,000 going to kids place 10,000 to reach of Mon County 10,000 to make medical assistance program and 7,000 uh to read to me. The only one in question that we had was the Highlands Hurricane Swim Team. Um, which is a 501c3, but it's a sports team. And although it is a worthy cause and, um, it, you know, just one of those tough ones that, you know, if you start we start funding every sports team, I don't know if we want to to open that up. It's never been done before. Um, that was the first time we've ever had one. I think that, well, I shouldn't say that. um they might have applied before I wasn't on the board then, but uh I just didn't think it was appropriate for us to start um funding those things. And Mr. Antoine,

no, I think it's kind of a double-edged sword because although I would be in favor of funding that, but when I look at all these other leagues that we have in the county, there'd be no way for us to be able to fund every single one of those. So, you know, sad to say no, but we can't we wouldn't be able to do that one. What was the make a medical assistant program? What was a lotment for it? Uh 10,000 and prior to that they had we had funded them in 2122 for $5,95. That's the amount we recommended was 10,000. And we had five applicants.

Five. Five. So there was no explanation on the swim team what they were needing funds for. Uh I believe their application I don't actually have their actual application in front of me. They were they were going to do a trip somewhere and it was to fund a uh an event trip somewhere I believe is what their application actually said. All right.

So, in the 37,000 that leaves 28,000 that was budgeted. There was a maximum amount budgeted for uh community funding pool for 75 75,000 which should leave you 38,000. 38,000. Yeah. Sorry. And and you can certainly leave that money there. You can you may have some more stuff pop up during the year. You can certainly appropriate more tonight. Uh that money doesn't go away obviously. So that money will still be there for whatever decision you want to make with it.

It's hard to appropriate money when there's no applicants for it. So I I see uh Jennifer here. Jennifer, congratulations. Anything you'd like to say? She's at reach. Uh I'm the assistant director with breach of maintaining county. Um and I would just I guess I would just say that I mean I know there's been a lot of discussion about funding nonprofits. Um I would encourage uh folks to look at how certain and specific you want. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry to do that to you, but I can't hear you.

Mr. Shields. I would actually just encourage you folks to think about how the money that you are contributing what that actually saves the county in the long term. Um, when you're looking at nonprofits like Kids Place, uh, like Reach of Bacon County, if our services ceased to exist tomorrow, the amount of county dollars that you pour in through county employees, county time is far greater than the amount of money that you are allocating to those funding sources. Uh easy example would be if we if our shelter did not exist. The amount of time that law enforcement alone would have to spend when working with individuals in domestic violence, sexual assault, or trafficking situations to to identify appropriate or safe housing would be extensive. Whereas right now, they're able to pick up a phone and say, "Hey, we have a victim. How can we work together to get them to safe housing?" And so as you have those larger discussions, I would encourage you to think about that. Um, and certainly, you know, placing, you know, if you wanted to look at placing parameters on what types of nonprofits, I mean, part of, you know, the $10,000, that's all we could ask for. Um, you know, we may have asked for more if we could have asked for more. Again, that's a pretty small overall percentage I think of the overall money that like our agency expends in terms of the services that we provide our community. Uh so I do think that nonprofits provide they provide a vital service uh to the community. Um and so I would just encourage you to think about that as you have your discussions and certainly I know REACH of course would be open to answering any questions about how that money is utilized and how that money is leveraged as well. not just locally, but on a state and federal level, how that money is utilized. So, and I'm glad to answer questions. I did not know it

would be up here, but certainly glad to answer any questions if you have them. Well, I'll just say that um I think through my comments of um nonprofits are absolutely essential to the benefit of the county. all counties, all cities, um, uh, all people. Um, so my comment is not to downplay what nonprofits do. My comment is simply the fact that it is not the role of the government to tax its citizens

to choose who they give their money to. the the nonprofits. You know, we've had two fundraisers by one person this year and have created 100,000 $130,000. We have a lot of people coming in talking about we need to keep funding. Well, let's take all these people that come in and say, "Let's keep funding these nonprofits and let's let's create a committee and figure out how to do fundraisers like this one individual has done.

She hasn't done it herself. She's had a team to do it, but she's done a fantastic job. first annual fundraisers and the amount of money people are willing to give in this community and all communities, but you got to ask for it. And unfortunately, nonprofits, and I'm not saying all nonprofits,

have forgotten how to ask for that money. It's easier to come to the government and say, "Give me the 75,000 for these five or whatever." than it is to create a committee to do fundraisers. And then you create a community that's involved in exactly what your organization does. And I'm not against you. I'm not against any of them. I think your service is wonderful. At the same time, I don't think it's the role of the government to tax its citizens to give money to non-governmental agencies.

So, we'll have a difference of opinion there because obviously I disagree with that. Um, however, I would say that it sounds to me internally that maybe simply talking about different parameters could help with some of those concerns. You know, again, the percentage of money that we receive from the funding pool, when you're talk, I can only speak to each. I can't speak to any other nonprofit, but the percentage of funding that we receive from the the funding pool is nowhere near what our annual budget is in terms of how and and so when you talk about people asking or fundraising, you know, we I know we are doing that. Um, and so I guess we view in some ways a collaborative like we are providing a like again I can't speak to any other nonprofit um but we are providing a service that is like something our community needs to have like it is a vital lifesaving service. You know, when you're saying that Reach Mon County provides services to more than 550 individuals a year, we provide shelter to more than 125 men, women, and children a year for over like 6,000 nights of shelter. We don't have a brickandmortar homeless shelter here. The closest one is 45 minutes. Um, and so I I hear what you're saying. We do have a difference in maybe a difference in philosophical opinion. That's totally fine. So I respectfully disagree. Um but I also think that maybe some of those concerns might be addressed collaboratively if you come together as a committee to look at those transparency. I know REACH is certainly welcome to provide transparency. We have a budget. We have a board. We could do an audit every year. And so looking at where our money is going and how it's being spent and and accountability, I think we're totally fine with that. Um if that is a concern, uh it sounds like maybe it's a little bit deeper than that, but certainly we are willing to to meet halfway in terms of providing some of that transparency and information. Uh so and I am you know like I said I I

appreciate your feedback. Let me give you a little u of what my insight is on this as a retired firefighter. How many times have you seen boot drives out here in the community? You know what I'm saying about a boot drive? firefighters are out there with the with the fire boots asking for donations. I don't see those. I haven't seen that, man. The reason why you don't see those is because they have an annual budget. The people are taxed. Mhm.

For their fire district. We used to do those. We used to have cookouts. We used to do all this stuff. But once the tax system started funding the fire departments, that stuff sort of went out the door. And that's what I'm talking about. I understand. And and so it's easier to ask the govern and I I understand $10,000 is not going to break this county. It's really the principle of I can appreciate that tax system is and thank you so much for what you guys do. I I'm grateful for what you do. Yeah. I definitely appreciate your perspective. Yes, sir. Is there any other questions?

Largely in support of what you're saying. It's really a a big it's a matter of opinion in a lot of ways. Okay. Um to me as a taxpayer, I don't mind putting money into worthy cause causes like this. And I think you would we'd probably find it's my opinion. We'd probably find a majority of the citizens who wouldn't mind putting money into something like this. To me, it's the same as tithing. you know, when I go to church, you know, it's one thing to put it into a cause like that because if you look at what you guys do as reach, that's that's a lot of work and a lot of lives get saved through that. You can't put a price on that. So, I do understand the perspective you're coming from. I'm I'm in total agreement with that.

Thank you, Mr. Trump. Any other questions I can answer? I I can support what you're saying, but also uh I've been with Kids Place for 30 plus years and uh we did a little math here a few months ago. This $10,000 is just a drop in the bucket of what we need and and usually it's a check in a box saying that the county is participating, right? But we looked at the staff out there that the kids place have. It would call it would if you that dissolved today. Mhm. It would cost the county a quart of a million dollars to replace that. Yes. And so we are saving taxpayers monies. Absolutely.

And by having this and uh have this in your community, it it just and I appreciate what you do, worked with you. Uh it's it's great. But these two organizations plus these other organizations definitely earned their money. And I'll say this, I'm not joking, but in last weekend with our U 828 things, we don't have a lot of Josh Youngs uh in the community that will come out and and grub grub in the ground and run in the ground, bring his whole family out and put in the money and give it back to him. We don't have many people like that. That's the kind of people you like when they win 50/50s.

I'm telling it back. And uh uh so I'm just glad to see him here. Last time I saw him, he's on the ground rubbing around and so uh I worry about him. Yeah. But appreciate his whole family what they did. Yes. Any other questions I can answer. Thank you, Miss Lynn. Thank you. Yeah. So I I would just say if if that is the case

then instead of having a committee to choose and take applications for this money, why shouldn't it if this money is so important to these organizations, why aren't they just committed on the budget process and forget about the committee to select who they are. So if if it's that important then the next budget cycle there should be it should label there we're going to give uh 10,000 10,000 5,000 7,000 and forget about the application process. Um so realistically when you ask for donations people give you more money than you than they normally would if you set a fee. And so, um, I'm not, um, I'm not against them. I just think that it's it's wrong for and and Danny and Barry, thank you for taking this on and going through the applications and everything. Um, we have five applications. Um, we didn't award all the money, but to me, these people have been waiting since June of 24. Correct, Lori? For this money for it to be awarded,

we normally award it May or June of 25 of 25. So, so how do you budget things when you don't know what money you're actually going to get? Um, so you can't budget $10,000 for REACH if you don't know you're going to be awarded that. So at the budget cycle, if it says we're going to give them $10,000, then they know what they got. I agree. So at this time, let me go ahead and make a motion that we approve this as presented so we can award them this money. Second motion by Commissioner Breeden, second. Second by Commissioner Antoine Beach. Commissioner Antoine.

Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by raising your right arm, stating I for the record. I Any oppose? Please let the record reflect 50. Miss Tammy. Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you, M. M. Jennifer. All right. Item C, old business, consideration of revisions to the landfill design and construction agreement. McGill and Associates.

Mr. Chairman, I'll I'll start and then I'll let these folks fill in. Obviously, we went back to bid on the landfill sale after the last meeting and of course, there's some changes that had to occur for that to happen. Uh, and that's what we're going to discuss tonight is the uh the follow-up process with McGill for that.

Right. And so, I think everyone has everyone have a copy of the letter, right? Okay. So, if I if I can and I'll be glad to answer any questions and uh that you have just please interrupt me. I want to make sure everyone gets their questions answered. But uh looking at the scope of services and everything that uh that we had to do since uh we we did the uh the first phase three cell 2 uh we of course uh one thing we did during con uh during design of the first sale. We started with a 6 to 7 acre sale. We ended up realizing that based on the growth that we uh once that cell was designed once the bedrock was the and the water elevations were known then we had to determine where the base of that landfill was. That landfill gave us roughly uh you know uh 3 and 1 half to 7 years depending on where the 2A was built or the wholesale was built. We realized that 2A uh was not going to necessarily provide the airspace goal for the county. So we we proceeded to to design too additional 24.9 acres and design the full footprint that you see there in the bid. That's going to be a 2A which would be 2A and 2B combined. Okay. So that's what's in that first one. Uh also we had to look at the environmental impact analysis and look at the 401 404 permits associated with those. Uh we then uh also after the bids came in as we know that they were over uh planned budget uh we redesigned uh pertinent features of cell 2a uh we performed takeoffs and negotiated with the uh responsible low bidder uh which was Shamrock Incorporated at the time. Uh we developed a cost analysis to evaluate the feasibility of various construction and hauling options for making county's waste management program. Just looking at the loss, you know, the delta of going to a hauling operation, having to build a transfer station and then only what those costs are based off some phone calls and from

other estimates for other clients of ours based on similar similar hall distances. And of course, now the county has gone out for a true uh uh an actual quote for for hauling. When does that come in? October. Yeah.

Okay. So hopefully right there when we receive bids the next time we'll be able to compare that on actual uh volumes. Okay. The additional pre-qualification of course is exactly what it is. We modified the pre-qualification, relaxed some of those pre-qualification criteria, hoping to get more uh uh local participation. We're ask allowing them to get some of this pre-qualification that we asked for previously under the GC to be able to get that under a qualified sub. Okay. Uh we've done that. Uh now revised plans and bids. Uh, of course uh when you take a project like this, you can indeed uh you know reject all bids. Uh but in order to rebid the exact same project that you really need to make a substantial effort to make a change in that project. So what we did is we tried to make some changes to some things that may not be completely essential from some grading and sediment ponds and some other things on the periphery as well as we were bidding it as a 2A primary and a 2B alternate ad option. So we had to revise the drawings to accommodate some of those requests. Uh and then uh rebidding an award is kind of stands on its own. Uh we're in the process of doing that now. We take bids on the fourth. Yes.

Yes. Bring them to you back to you with a recommendation. Um we certainly hope uh by the 13th. So that's what we are. That's where we are basically. I'll summarize page four of that uh proposal to you uh and then answer any questions you may have. Uh our original uh that we set out to was with all those numbers were $488,800. uh by asking these increases. Some of these numbers, we know what these numbers are. Some of these numbers are, if you'll notice, are hourly maximums, not to exceed. So that's the maximum number we'll charge you. We may indeed charge you very uh charge you less. Okay? But we're giving you uh maximum not to exceed totals with that's an additional $97,000. Um and the total after that increase would be $585,800. Anybody have any questions?

Mr. Chairman, I'll add on to what Mark just said. Obviously, we did go out for bid on the smaller sale with the option to add on the entire sale. Um, and at the same time, we have an RFP out for the hauling and tipping fees if we wanted to, or we were required to haul waste somewhere else. So, if we follow through with this process, when we come back hopefully to the November meeting, we will be able to give you the exact cost of that sale or the hauling and tipping fees to haul it somewhere else. So, you can compare both of those side by side. Um, obviously, I don't I hate coming and asking for more money, so we we don't like that obviously, but uh the funds for this would have to come out of the solid waste fund balance. Correct, Lori? uh because remember these are enterprise funds. These are not on the general fund side. And then of course uh some of those are maximum not to exceed amounts that were they're indicated here.

I've got a couple questions, but sure. Are there extensive amounts of import export proposed at the site? What what's blowing our cost up to gravel? Gravel. It's $3 million in gravel. Well, and the other part of that question is, you know, is there a, you know, an average, a cubic yard, a price per cubic yard or per square foot that, you know, regionally and uh how do we trend with that for uh we used to do a price per acre. Okay.

So, one of the first projects I worked on was making county landfill 29 years ago. And uh we did we did sand in that had that we were pressured to do sand in that landfill. Uh you know it's against our better judgments to do sand in the landfill. Sand will move and uh it it creates a problem. You're going to have problems with leech standing in your landfill. And so uh but at the time I was thinking about that today. I wish I'd gone and pulled the bid tab from that first project. Uh, but it was a good good rule of thumb for years. We could say 250,000 an acre, add in a little bit of money for a pump station or something like that. Some of the higherend ancillary projects, right? And then we could get to a, you know, we would have said, okay, you've got 12 acre sale, you're going to be at, you know, $3.5 million. And I mean, it's crazy what costs have done. So to give you one now since CO and since uh these uh last few projects we bid it's about impossible. Again what we thought was a realistic number on our half was 7.5 million. Yeah. So 7.5 million and then you add soft cost to that uh you know we thought your budget was going to be around the you know 10 million and then your construction cost comes in at 10.2 too.

And so, uh, it's just all over the place. I think I think there's so much work out there right now that it's just, you know, contractors don't have to sharpen their pencil. And I'm not against contractors. It's fair and it's fair price. I mean, I mean, what I'm saying is it's fair because three three people gave three or four people gave within a reasonable approximation of the same price. It's what the industry is requiring right now. Uh, and it's it's it's unfortunate for budgets. I understand that. But we're seeing it everywhere. It's not just a Mon County. [Music] In other words, there's people that's not hungry right now. They're they're not starving.

It's it's it's true. It's just it's just part of society. It's fact. Mr. Chairman, I will say, and Jamie, correct me if I'm wrong. We had six pre-qualified this time, I believe. Is that correct?

Believe it was six. Um, so we have a good mix of folks and and we're hoping by going through this process that that we will we're hopeful that we'll get a number that we can live with. Uh, we've looked at some uh dates for the uh local government commission, which of course we'd have to get financing approved once we get through this. Um we're we're still going to be tight because obviously July or before we're we're hopeful that July is the date that we will have some serious space considerations at the landfill. Um so obviously there's a little bit urgency for us to get these numbers on the table, but the other good thing is we'll also have that hauling and and tipping somewhere else. So, in the event that whichever direction you decide to go, we'll we'll know what that cost is going to be. Um, and then of course tying this all together, one of the things Lori and I did this year is we got um Mitch with Davenport Associates to to put our enterprise fund into his capital improvement plan. So, when we come into budget time next year, we'll tie all these pieces together and we'll be able to give you a much more solid business plan for the years going forward, no matter which direction you go to help you make those decisions going on in the future. Um, and if the board is inclined tonight, we would we would need a motion to approve this uh I guess amendment or change to the McGill agreement. Uh, and to approve the movement of that $97,000 extra from the solid waste fund balance into the appropriate expenditure account. Is that correct, Lori? I mean, I certainly hope the county can find a way to build the entire sale. We

all know that's what needs to happen. But, you know, I don't I don't look after the day-to-day finances of the county. I just know it's going to be more expensive in the future. And of course, there has to be something after Davenport does their thing. It has to be something to uh to to talk about how that uh everything's funded. But that that's why you guys are here to make those tough decisions. I'm just want to answer any questions you have. Well, thanks for coming by. I know gravel ain't getting any cheaper. No, it's gone. I mean, I bet it's jumped 30%. 5 years. All right, gentlemen. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you.

Any comments, feedback? I'm I'm interested to see the comparison of hauling it out or next month. I'm interested in seeing what what that figure looks like. We have to spend this 97,000 before we get that number to

I feel like well the problem is and I'm just going to speak on my personal opinion but hauling is kind of what we do on an interm basis but we can't haul forever but then we're dependent on everybody else and we already have a landfill. We're one of the few remaining landfills. So the hauling would buy us time while we can construct, you know, future expansion. But I think we have to keep a landfill. I mean, we're too far down this rabbit hole. To answer your question, Commissioner Braden, we we would have to spend part of that. We might not have to spend it all depending on where we get into in the bidding process and what we find once we do the design process. We we have to appropriate that amount, but we may not spend up to that amount. hourly max not to exceed on on all three of those. We basically spent some of those already getting to this point, but some of those are still it's still a projection,

but in order for us to pre- audit the agreement, we have to have the maximum amount of funds there. So, of course, we'll try to I promise you I'll try and value engineer it as much as possible. I don't have it in front of me, but Miss Lori, what's the budget amendment? So, the budget amendment would be to appropriate $97,000 of solid waste fund balance to cover this and to approve an amendment to McIll's contract in the amount of $97,000. I'd like to make a motion that we amend McIll's contract and appropriate $97,000. Second from solid waste fund balance.

Solid waste fund balance. Second. I have a motion by Commissioner Young, second by Commissioner Shields. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by raising your right arm stating I. I. I. Any oppose?

I would like to let the record reflect 50. I would like to u address Jamie with um you know we talked about bidding apples to apples and you know you presented this stuff um to us for the cost of um but I would like you to present to this board in the future when this um comes back the value of the land that we're talking about. um creating this new sale, the cost to open that sale, cost to operate the landfill, employees, salaries, benefits, equipment, etc. The entire cost package for that, cost to close the sale and cost to monitor the closed sale for decades for the time frame. Um, and that way we can get a um a realistic idea of where the taxpayers are going to save money.

Um, I understand what you're saying, but some of that is just completely unknown. The monitoring for a lifetime of the landfill, some of those parameters, we won't know. We won't know the cost, you know, in the future. I could tell you what it costs right now. Miss Jamie, come on up. Come on up, Miss Jamie. I'm sorry. Yeah. Sorry. I mean, just some of those just would be unknown. So, I mean, I could estimate it for you, but but I I can definitely try.

Well, and and the reason why um you know, and the facts and stuff, I need to um um approach some of the board members in uh Haywood County. Um, but there was an article in the newspaper um talking about the company that owns the landfill in Haywood County and how profitable that is for them. And the commissioners are quoted in there as to how much money the taxpayers are saving by that being privatized. And it how long has it actually been or has it ever been studied to have an incinerator in this county or privatizing the landfill or hauling this? It seems like this is the first time that this study has actually happened. Um and and it's worthwhile to know that we're we're getting the best bang for the buck and not um destroying valuable land in this county um and the taxpayers overpaying where they could be saving money. So that's

Sure. Okay. Thanks, Miss Jamie. All right. Any other comments? Approval of architectural services for National Guard Armory renovation. Manager Cab.

So, Mr. Chairman, back in March of 2021, the board of commissioners entered into a lease agreement with uh Southwestern Community College to use the space at the old National Guard Armory building. Uh, and that was for them to conduct fire, EMS, law enforcement, park service training in that building. And part of the lease agreement was that uh we would make some renovations and remodel that building and bring it up to uh a usable format for them to use. Um there wasn't necessarily a time frame on the agreement. They've actually been using the building to some extent, but essentially the agreement at the time was that when they constructed the burn building, which is a separate capital project, which is the actual fire training facility that's in the works out there, um we would try to have our renovations done. Uh at the time that that building was in place, um they've actually started construction on that building. It's a modular building. Um they've hired a contractor. We went to the pre pre uh construction meeting back in the fall. Um you're going to see some more movement with that facility. They've hit just a few delays, but by summer of next year or fall, that facility should be operational. Um, so it's basically it's time for us to to look at that agreement that we we had to make those renovations to that facility. Uh, in your capital improvement plan for the last couple years, we've allocated 2.5 million for that u that renovation. Um, so what we did is we went out, we put out RFQS for our architectural design and planning services for that facility. Uh, we received three uh RFQ submitts back. Um, one of those companies, OB, they were

all good proposals. Um, one of those, uh, proposals, we did not have any experience with the designer. Uh, one of them we had some minimal experience through a partner project, not necessarily with Mon County government. And the other one we we've had some extensive uh, service provided. Then the the uh firm that we decided would be the most prudent for us to use would be Looper Architectural Design and Planning. Uh they've actually already as as back when this initial agreement in 2021 took place, those folks had already taken a look at that facility to figure out what they thought it needed. And honestly, they're a little bit ahead of the game as far as the u the process. Um so after we just made that decision uh Joe Allen and I reached out to them and negotiated a proposal from them to provide design and u design and development services for that facility. Uh and they have come back with a proposal for $181,12053 to uh lead that project all the way from design all the way through construction all the way out the other end. Uh obviously this again is like the same agreement we talked about with McGill. You know if we bring you design and you come back and say no we don't want to do that obviously then then we're not going to spend all that funding. Um but we do feel that based on our experience with this firm uh we're very comfortable. This is the firm that did the uh the work on the library. Uh they did some other work for us and various other projects. Um, we think that based on some conversations th this is my goal. Um, we think and Joe Allen can reiterate this if I don't say this correctly, but one of the other projects at Southwestern is the resurfacing of the

uh the driving track that we talked about for CDL licensing purposes. um separate project that we're not necessarily going to talk about tonight, but I know they're already working on uh some revised bids for that uh which are going to come in under the estimate that we got uh in the budget process. They're also working on agreement with a neighboring community college to provide that instruction. Um, so what I hope to is get this design started on this facility and for that $2.5 million, not only do the renovation to the armory, but be able to provide that uh resurfacing of that driving track, pull all this together so that this facility will be open hopefully fall of next year and that driving track once we get all the bids in and get into the spring where we could possibly pave it, have it ready for a first CDL class if we can make everything work out by next fall, pull all of those projects together for the $2.5 million that you originally had been anticipating. So, that's our goal. Um, so if tonight, if you see fit to fall through with this, I would request approval of U Looper Architectural Design and Planning to do the design development process. Um, actually don't necessarily need the money. The money is sitting, we have some project money that's sitting in a um project for Southwestern Community College and all we need to do is move that over to the capital fund for u the uh the National Guard Armory.

Warren, can you uh now you said to start to absolute finish not to exceed $181,12053, but right underneath that Reimburseable expenses for printing and other job specific office supply. Additional site visit shall be build at $850 per trip. I mean, how do you I mean, how do you say it's only going to cost a maximum of 181,000 and then all of a sudden we've got a clause in here that says they could bill us $850 for additional trips.

It is very difficult. And I will add one of the things that Joe and I negotiated with them. If you look at the site visits included on page three, uh that originally was either eight or 10 and we went back and negotiated and said no, we we're not going to go with that proposal. We need more site visits in that. So we actually increased the site visits. So hopefully we don't get into that. Um I I agree that it's difficult for me to give you the maximum, but we're we're certainly going to try to hold it to that number as much as possible. I mean, it's just open-ended contracts. I mean, it just every everyone that we ever see, it's it's it's open-ended. And to me, in the private sector, a guaranteed maximum price is a guaranteed maximum price. Don't ask me for another penny. So, this is just open-ended that you can't guarantee what it's going to cost. and and it it just I don't operate business that way. I can't. Um and but it seems like some of these government people, they can and they do and um you know, I'm ready to move forward with this. We've talked about this for a long time. Um but they may come back and say, "Hey, I had 20 extra visits. there's extra money that um and you can't you can't control a budget um based on now if there was things in there the unknowns as such as oh well if we hit rock or something I understand that but to say we're going out the door with this start to finish this is the price and um so I have a problem with

I mean, if they want to guarantee us 181,000, whatever this number is, I'm good. Let's go with it. But I'm not happy with John. Here's here's something that I see in my world often, especially on a renovation. If he puts in the bid 10 visits or 12 visits, and he makes those visits, but all of a sudden something comes up that needs engineering, he's going to say, "Send me a picture of it. I'll see what I can do. But that one visit could at that point in time be monumental. You know, it's hard to get into something. And once you're in that deep and he's already hit his contract, he's not going back out there. Why would he? But it I think would save the county money. But I think that's why you have to trust Joe and you have to trust Warren and Jack. They're not going to call him out there if they don't need them. But I feel like if it gets down to it and there's critical engineering that needs to be designed,

we have a set of plans for an engineer to look at that. Well, um I mean this is for plans, right? That this will be for the design the plans. We actually will have some liar data of the building that'll be developed and then he'll bring the plans back to us and we'll do the design off the plans. We we have some existing floor plans and some other drawings out there, but we'll actually have to develop the the entire

Yeah, I don't know if I necessarily this conversation not having with Peter. We had the same concern about the business. We're not going to call Peter. Hey, we want you come look at this unless it's pretty serious. We realize that's $850 to get in and run over. And I will say this about Architectural. are pretty good about if we need to talk about it over the phone, we can talk about it over the phone and get things worked out. So, we're I mean, I can't promise you we're not going to have a $850 visit, but it's going to be necessary if we do. I mean, it's not just going to be, hey, we need you to look at this, see if we think this color's all right. So, you said they started out with 10 visits.

Either eight or 10. We went to 12. Yes. Yeah. And we actually we cut $45,000 off because there was another some fees in there for the metal building, some other stuff that we're going to manage some of that ourselves. So, we actually cut $45,000 off of the the original proposal. So, let me back up a little bit in time. This was 5 years ago. Four years ago we talked about this. I mean, is everything still on track? I mean, they asked for something four years ago. We're giving it to them five years later. I mean, what if something's changed on their end with their plan?

It hasn't that I'm aware of because I've actually had a couple meetings with them because we've sat down or I have at the table with them to discuss it. We've we've pretty much talked about the same things. Um, we've actually value engineered it a little bit because like windows, we're not going to we're going to try not to replace the windows.

We're going to get some of the dollar figures down. The the biggest thing that concerns us moment is the roof. So, we've obviously got to get somebody to give us evaluation of the roof, make the recommendation what we're going to do, but we've already some of the the doors and things that we can salvage, not that are there's nothing wrong with them. So, that that's how we think we're going to be able to get that dollar figure down less than what we originally thought it was going to be. And actually the all we got we got some AC some HVAC stuff in there, but the county is in the process of replacing the last heat pump in there that needs to be replaced. So we're just going to be adding AC. So we've already got some of that's been done. So it's just going to be AC added to the building now. So we don't have heat to be added. So

Okay. See how well they do. It's my goal, John. 2.5 for the whole thing. All right. Thank you, Joe. So, uh, how does the board feel about approval of architectural services?

We We can't do it without it. So, I'll make a motion we move forward with the looper architectural design with the plan. Make a motion to that at a guaranteed maximum price of what you have. I have the 181 120 and 53 cents. Is that what you're talking about? Okay. So, please add to the motion. I hear a motion by Commissioner Shields. I'll second that motion. Second by Commissioner Cheryl. Any further discussion? Please get this done for $2.5 million. Not too.

You know what? I'll quit. If I can't, I'll quit. All right. Any other discussion? Inherit this. There you go. Hearing none. All in favor, please signify by raising your right arm, stating I. All right. All right. Item 11, new business. None. Consent agenda. Everybody had time to review the consent agenda? Yes. And if so, I need a motion to approve. Yes, sir. I hear a motion by Commissioner Breeden. Second.

Second by Commissioner Antoine. He beat you again. Any further discussion? Just want to make sure that approval of the resolution in support of Operation Green Light was still on target. Okay. Yep. Yep. Item item E, Operation Green Light is still in there. Uh, all in favor, please raise your right arm. State I close. 5. Miss Tammy. All right. No appointments. Eric, do we have a close session?

We don't, but I did have one question. Under category under old project associates. Yeah, that's we've already taken care of it, so it's good under consent.

All right. Well, waiting on one more motion. [Music] Motion to adjourn. Hear a motion by Commissioner Antoine. Second by Commissioner Breeden. All in favor, please say I and raise your right hand. I get that. [Music] Miss Kezer. Miss Ker. Okay.