Bza Meeting - Regular Meeting

Commission hearing July 21st get a roll call. Mr. Westbrooks here. Mr. Wallenhurst here. Miss Musky here. And it appears Mr. Roberts and Mr. Cox are absent. Mr. Rizzo's here. So call I believe sir Roberts we knew right he was Mr. Cox we know here he's coming in now.

All right he is here. meeting minute meeting minutes which I make sure uh the main ones I was here for Mr. Roberts Mr. is absence for that. So, the three of us could pass these. Does anyone have any comments on the May minutes? I do not. A motion. I'll make a motion that we approve the May 2019, 2025 planning commission meeting as submitted. I'll second.

All in favor? All right. Then second would be the uh June 16th, 2025 meeting minutes. And looks like we're all that one. Anybody have any comments on those? I'd move we approve as submitted. Second. Second. All right. All in favor? I. All right. Perfect. The first item, Mr. Mr.

She's one of the guys. Don't care. So, second time we've been been here. Um, you submitted some additional information. Um, Mr. Francon, maybe Mr. You might have comments. I can't. Mr. Franc, would you like to go over your comments on I I there were no additional I I don't believe there was any additional information.

Oh, I'm sorry. Those are comments for the 942. Sorry. Valley Road. There was no addition. There was no new comments. Is that correct? Yeah, there was no additional information. Okay. So, you had you did you have to go to BCA? Yeah.

Okay. I guess uh Mr. France, do you happen to recall what things you were looking for? Or I can probably find comments from last time now.

Yeah. No, I can I can look at see if I can find Do you recall how how many acres do you have? Under two I had that reported. Isn't there some rule about a a oversized garage on a sideyard with less than three acres? You gotta go.

Yeah, you want you're I think that was what I read something about uh you didn't have the right size or something. I'm not sure. I thought I read that somewhere.

Yeah. Uh, it looks like we had the the site plan to show the the setback, which it looked like you had plenty of space, but we just needed it documented on a site plan. And then the BZA, which sounds like you went to the board zone appeals. So, and then um likely, again, not a problem, but the maximum ground coverage for all accessory buildings um can't exceed 10% of the rear yard. Uh so, you just needed to show that you met the lot coverage requirement.

Good. And then, um you had the building height, which the building commissioner can confirm. And yeah, then there was the issue about sideyard versus rear yard. And I I believe the zoning administrator um determined that it met the code. Yes. And that that appears that's it. So they would he would need his conditional zoning certificate at this point. Okay. With I know they passed BCA.

Yeah, I didn't know they went to BCA. I I remember. Okay. So, like there might be a couple things maybe to submit to building just so they can fully document area covered. But I think something Yeah, I could. Yeah, I would think that would be good to verify. Was there anything else that needs to be verified? I think that's it. Yeah, there were just a couple things for building. So, this conditional z uh conditional zoning certificate is

yes want to make a motion. Yeah. I I move we approve as as submitted and

additional documentation. Yeah. Include including the additional documentation. Is there a second? All right. Any more discussion on that? All in favor? I All right. besides nothing else.

Thank you. Thank you. Sorry to throw that at the other garage. All right. Uh, next, uh, the garage at 9042 Valley Road.

Yes. either spot your first time doing anything Mr. Max. Okay. Just give us a just a brief overview. What what you're planning um planning storage building garage I think building that's commercial. Um I've been renting for many years. some added car collector. I'm just looking for somewhere to bring my stuff home. I don't if you familiar with the stolen cars. No.

Yeah, that's what I do. I help with that and charity and all that. So, um I have quite a few classic cars. I just want to bring them home and quit pay rents because we sold my building is the biggest thing. So, I said the next time I'm not paying rent anywhere else. I'd like to just build that home if I could. Okay. So, I don't know. I don't know if you guys are aware when the property was purchased there was two buildings up already that total 3100 square foot and I'm just looking pretty much one building there that's similar I can get rid of anything else you guys need me to get rid of because I know the language says something about more than two out buildings there's just a tool shed there with my shovels in it and the other building that's up was a milk shed because the property used to the cow from. So that building that's still up is a brick building is where they used to store all the milk. And where I'm looking to put the building is exactly where the cow bar used to be. So just a just a little bit bigger. Yeah. Cow barn used to be 34 by 70. And then there was a metal building over here that was the horse barn. The city made me take that down when I first bought the property. And this was um I helped my grandfather remove that this and the silo that was there. But I'm just going to look and replace what was there and I'll get rid of whatever you need to do to do that.

All right. Uh would you like to go over your accounts? Sure. Um my report stated July 12th. So, the uh applicant is proposing a 40x 80 about 3200 square ft detached um garage on the property at 9042 Valley View Road. The property is um larger. It's about almost 5 1/2 acres zoned Darwin Residence District. Taking a look at aerial photography. Um there's a collection of stuff on the property, so I'm assuming not as much anymore. Okay. Bad that crazy getting rid of everything.

Good. Yeah. Um, so I assume this was part of maybe an enforcement issue with the building through code enforcement. Nope. I just decided that I knew I was going to have to clean up, as my wife calls it, the pigsty because I was start building the building. I started a little bit ahead of time, but it's gotten it's been progressively clean. I've been cleaning more and more lately. So, by the time this is approved, there will be nothing there.

Oh, good. Yeah, we like your wife. She's she's on the right track. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's a separate issue from this discussion, but um one that probably makes the building commissioner very happy because it's, you know, it's a zoning enforcement issue. It just

just needs to be cleaned up. Um so, with regard to the structure itself, um in the R1 residence district, section 1163.02H 2H and I kind of regulate larger structures. And um how the code reads is it provides under 116302H regulations for accessory buildings and you're limited to one detached private garage with a maximum area not to exceed 600 square ft. And then you can have a second one that um can't exceed 288 square feet. It sounds like you have a couple structures already on the property.

Yeah, there's there's one barn there that used to be a grain barn. It's funny because it still has one. Macedonia, I guess, used to be Hudson. M it still has tags in there from the from the guy that came around and looked at you know if what your wheat and your corn and everything was his signature on like Senica wheat and everything and it said the city of Hudson. So it's been there that long.

Um so it it sounds like you're you have an existing building. You have a second building that exceeds the limitations of the code. Um so Mr. Monaco and I talked about it. He believes there might be a variance for that second building. So that would be something he'd look at, you know, administratively. Um if there isn't, they would have to the applicant would have to go get a variance for that second building. The first one um exceeding 600 square feet is something that the planning commission can grant under um 11632I which provides provisions for larger lots. In this case, this property is definitely larger and so the commission can grant a larger structure in this instance from the 600 square ft um to the request of 3200 square ft. the other structure or structures would either have to be cured with a variant or removed.

I'll remove um that's not a file. So yeah, so there you go. That that makes it a lot easier. Yeah. And then a couple just sort of performance things. Um which I don't think is an issue, but the code states that you you can't exceed the maximum ground coverage of 10%. You have a big property, so it's probably fine. It's a little over five and a half acres, I believe. Yeah. So, all it is is providing a calculation to the building department. It shows how much you have square footage of detached buildings. Sounds like you're going to eliminate some of them. Anyhow, y um so you would be it would be acceptable then under the code. I I think it's not an issue.

Um then the architectural plans looks like they propose a 12t tall building wall. Is that correct? So that complies with the 15 ft. It's the maximum by the code. So that's good. Um roof pitch looks like it's fine. You're proposing a 312 roof pitch, which is what the code um states that you can't have a slope less than 312. So you're good there.

Okay. Um so in the rear yard on lots greater than 1 acre uh the applicant complies with that and then um the setback I is not um applicable in this instance because of the lot size. So if there's existing variance or the applicant stated the building would be removed, I would suggest at this point the conditional permit can be approved subject to

so it would be subject to either you know checking into what he I'm sorry you'd have to get a demolition permit so that to remove those two structure Because right now you're paying taxes on those and once that you issue the demolition permit, the county will find out that you don't have the state will find out you don't have those two structures. So they're not going to charge you taxes for that. And then when your new structure is built, then you'll be paying, you know, taxes on that. So yeah, the first thing is to get a demolition permit for those two structures before I take them down. Before you take We'll see us. We'll take Okay. Yeah.

Okay. And then I'd say a scaled site plan just to document which again it's a large property. It doesn't look like it's going to be an issue. I actually took the plans that I this was from the state when the property was purchased. So I actually took this and just eliminated the two buildings and put it put where I wanted to put it. So perfect. Yeah. I figured that's because here all the setbacks are on here. We just measured from here to where the building mean from here to here and here to here and all the numbers were on what I turned in. I hope they're correct. That's good. Yeah. So, the building department can confirm that. I' I'd say he uh he's addressing all the issues. Okay.

We get his wife in here and thank her. She was she wanted to come, but her grandkids were a little bit more important than I'd say. So, Mr. Julia, do you have any? I have no comments. You stated this is for storing your vehicles, my classic cars. Yes, sir. How many are we talking about? uh six in a boat in a motorcycle which should be more hopefully more than enough. Okay. I'm just going to have to check um just the FPA code just to make sure indoor vehicle um storage and suppression. Okay. And I'll look that up and we can get back to you.

If it's I think the code is 5,000 square feet. If you're over 5,000 square feet, you would require a spring system. Mhm. But if you're less than 5,000 square feet, you you're not going to require system. What do I got to do? Any questions? So, where am I at? I don't So, it sounds like we could we can approve a contingent uh building removals. Yeah, the building removals. Um the planning commission would have to uh agree that uh you can according to 116302i that you can have a structure larger than 600 square f feet. Correct. That's correct.

And uh that you provide the building department something showing that you're have less than 10% coverage. Okay. Can we think we ought to have an administrative uh review because the fire chief says you have to look at something and you have to take down buildings too. So, subject to administrative uh approval instead instead of approving it all right now. I I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you make that? You're good at that. Okay. Make it make a motion to approve um with uh a few bullet items here, Susan. Yeah.

Uh planning commission uh approves according to section 1163.02 O2 I that he have a structure larger than 600 square ft. Uh that he removes the two existing out buildings. He provides uh documentation showing that he has less than 10% lock coverage and uh confirmation from fire department about fire suppression.

That would be the max I'm putting in. So minimum of four right now. Okay. I mean, at at the least, I'd like to see a fire extinguisher in a second. Uh, second. I'll second. All right. And it was an excellent motion. I do believe I heard you let the record reflect that the applicant stated that all the um property maintenance violations will also be cured in connection with this matter. Okay. Did you hear that? would have been more, but I was on vacation. So,

all right. So, we've got a motion, a second. Any more discussion? All in favor? All right. Thank you very much. Nice. Do I stay here? Thank you, everybody. I like that.

Next is a generator installation for Green at 8211 Bavaria Road. I feel like we brought more horsepower than we needed.

Yeah.

Uh like to just give us a quick explanation of what you're what you're planning. My name is representing recording. Um, basically we are working with Ranger to provide standby power to the facility. So in the case of a power outage, basically the generators are turned on, provide standby power so that they can operate during an outage situation. Um, this is in addition to the dedicated fire pump generator. We're not touching that generator. That system is in place and it's going to remain as so.

Okay. pretty pretty basic but sounds it's probably pretty complicated to actually put Mr. France would you like to go over your thoughts?

Sure. Yeah. My report day July 11th and I would concur Mr. Chairman very straightforward. The western side of the building will receive a generator kind of in the truck parking area. The eastern side um will receive a generator and it that's going to be in an area that's kind of designated as off- streetet parking but it's not being used as off streetet parking. I went back and looked at aerials back to 2015, I think, and it's not being used. So, I see no issue with impact to parking and uh overall it meets the setback. So, um unless the city engineer and fire department have um any issues with the request, I think it could be approved as submitted. Excellent.

I have chairman fire department. You're good. But the only question that I had is is about the number of parking spaces that you have there. And I just want to make sure that you weren't granted a variance that you had less parking space than you required. So no, there's plenty of parking uh in the front of the building. It's it's actually rather empty. We probably should lease it out to somebody. Yeah. He needs to park his car. We'll see. Let's see what we can do with that. Is there any questions from No.

All right. Anyone want to make a motion? I'll make a motion that we approve the uh generator additions to the 211 Bavaria Road as submitted. I'd second that. All right. Any more discussion? All in favor? All right. Thank you. Can I please get your guys' names agenda? I'm Jimmy Bean. B E A M O N. from the construction project manager. Okay. Oh, thank you. Appreciate it.

All right. Thank you.

850 Island Road. Another one that's probably pretty straightforward. You guys want to put a new sign up? No. All the old sign is my dad put it in. Yeah. 40 50 years ago. Oh, wow. 45 years. got your money's worth ownership and I decided to put a nice line up. So, we're happy to be here. Good.

Mr. Franc, would you like to go over your thoughts?

Sure. My report dated July 12th. So, the applicant is um looking to replace that existing ground sign with a new one. Section 117907B and C um permits one identification sign, maximum 40 square ft. The proposal is to um install just under 24 square feet of ground sign, a little over five feet tall, a little more than 20 ft from the street. So, no issue in in so far as the numerical standards of the code. The sign itself is a non-eluminated alumin non-illuminated aluminum cabinet attached to an aluminum base. I just point out the planning commission has required um other applicants to erect ground signs using um more of a decorative brick surround um and utilize dimensional lettering as opposed to plastic tack cabinets. Um and then in addition, plank commission has um required landscaping around the base of the ground sign pursuit to the code. Um, so just something I think that the commission should um talk to the applicant about and consider upgrading the signage consistent with um the uh approvals recently for other ground signs.

Thank you. No comments. All right, commission. Straightforward. Can you spruce it up a little bit? That's what what I think they're asking.

Well, I will address some of that market and I know that situation. We've done some signs here before including the car wash base. This tends to be in my opinion a little bit more of an industrial area. Uh as you can see some of the signs that are around there. uh having a aluminum skirt, yes it's not brick, but adding brick or masonry does add quite a bit of cost to it. And same with mention to uh an area that as you can see most of the sites in that uh neighborhood which are actually these are all right property are flat. You have two posted panels there. You got a base one right next door. You can see the on that. It does not have the uh masonry brick stone base.

And I Well, I agree there. There are a bunch of signs that do not match that, but a lot of them have been there for quite a while. Yeah, exactly.

Um, you know, we weren't necessarily pushing for that back then. I don't know when even some of those were put up but but anything newer in that area um last 15 20 years probably um you know just kind of screwed up those so hard I know there's an electronic message sign but they've got you know break uh block thing um just down the road was the bug place uh We recently had them uh put them in the same kind of sign. Yeah.

Yeah. That's that's really that's what we've been pushing forward even farther out. Um one other thing, Kevin. Yes.

When uh you know, we prove yours just the way it is. when the next one comes up, one of these older signs, and we try to upgrade them, they say, "Well, just last year you approved them for this wooden sign." And, uh, so we'd never be able to upgrade. They'd use yours as as prime example. You know what I mean? You'd be the latest one. So, uh, that's why we're trying to upgrade as we go along. When these other companies come up, the ones you're showing us, we do the same thing with them. try to push them into upgrading a little even though it's a little more expensive. Did you guys not bring another option for us to

I mean we can look at if we were to do something like that maybe brick otherwise we're doing brick but put in a footer which means a footer inspection masonry to do that you know that's just the the aspect you put in brick aspect we're talking about adding dimensions to something right there. These are flat nails.

Those again, those are older signs. They've been for a long time. They come in like to upgrade their signage. We're going to ask them to do the same thing. That kind of thing. We're not out there chasing them down asking them to do it, but they are Just like that. Um, Mr. Franc, I don't know what you think about faux brick thing. I know we've tried to avoid it as much as possible.

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's certainly better than the aluminum panel, and I get it. It's um expensive to do all brick. um block is less, but you still you're going to have to have a footer in an inspection. Um and I think it's it's definitely better than the aluminum, you know, having the quick brick or whatever you want to call it, thin brick.

Yeah. publicly. I mean, yeah, you can do something that's down the road partial. Is that what you guys want? Is a There's one on on D2 that just basically is covering the post. Well, I'm not Really? What side are you on though?

There's one heading down 82 here before you turn into Valley Cube. There's one on the left small. It just had basically a square of masonry. It's basically the the concept if we were to do something like that bricks around. When we did the car wash over there, that was $15,000 just for that brick. Mhm. And you had to put a base in there. Grant was much bigger.

But anytime you're asking one of the smaller companies to put in a base do it cap on there, poster still have to do a footer and I have to have the inspector out. Yeah, I have no problem inspections. the inspection. I don't I don't have a problem doing inspections. What What do we ask Coblins to do that? He was recently there. Is Isn't he putting in a a new sign for the front of his new building on Highland there? I think Yeah. I I don't recall what I think it's a monument sign, isn't it?

Yeah, it's a monument sign. I don't recall. I know it had bricker block incorporated into it. I just don't remember exactly. I don't know if that's cheaper or not, but I don't remember that.

Yes. I I wanted to see which one you're referring to. The front of the building is correct. The office portion. Yes. Yes. I think we're not I think 100% opposed to a to a faux brick. I know we have used it a couple of spots or someone use it a couple of spots. I don't have a problem with it just given the fact that it's out of sign. If it were out of building a problem because I think that tends to show a lot more expensive get a lot of sign that might

but if it can be done done well I think we'd be open to that um but we'd be looking like there's already something you're probably asking for something around you have any suggestions on what level of landscaping Typ typically it's just lowline shrubs, flowers,

something. Yeah. I mean, you can just handdraw up some kind of a little sketch. I mean, typically the planning commission approves that administ allows for an administrative approval and the building department will either approve it or send it over to me. But um the idea is just to green up the base and Yep. You obviously don't want to put big tall bushes or cover your sign. That seems

like there is suggest meeting Francis.

Yeah. My recommendation would be that it matches the look of it, the color of it and such. So ton I'll make that motion continue this to the August meeting to address Mr. Francis. I'll second that. Any more discussion? All in favor? I think things need to be due. That's probably pretty August. It's this Friday. This Friday.

We need a full submission. Just the uh direction. What do you mean by commission? You want a new plan? It's continued. So, I'll need three hard copies and I'll dig. Thank you. Yeah. For August. Thank you.

Is Cleveland car wash proposed signage? I'm going to have to uh recuse myself from this one since work with these guys. So, So turn it over. Mr. W. How are you? Good. How are you? Good. State your name. Yes.I. Tu CCI.

Thank you. Uh do you want to give us a view? You were here. Someone's here for the last month for us. Uh and then just give an update and then Mr. comments.

Sure. Um, apologies. I was on vacation scheduled or signed vendor this year. Um, and also let me just start off by saying apologies to city of Nino staff. Uh, we have a lot of locations open for building car washes. Um, almost 16 here in Cleveland. It's not new to us. Um so it was our mistake to assume that the changes we were making were maintenance uh and improvements to uh existing stock. completely apologize especially you know I know there's a vacation you know right before all this happened we feel absolutely terrible and I can't apologize enough we like to come into communities um starting on the right foot we think we make properties better we think we have one of the best looking properties anywhere take pride in that uh we want to become part of the community through donations to the nonprofits in the community and so really to get off on the wrong foot with the city is not what we're interested in. So, I can't apologize enough, but I don't want to waste waste your time, but I appeared really like a dog with my tail between my legs and saying this is not how we typically do business. We made a wrong assumption and I can take the blame for that person. So, thank you. I

um we're here for the signage approvals um in and around the site. Some of the signs were existing. We've upgraded the whole to more commercial industrial strength. Um and some are new to the property. Um we can cover first the building signage. In short, the building sign will remain similar to what is there as far as channel letters. Um and same location, same size. Uh it's underneath the the size for the ordinance. Um really just making it our brand in those existing locations. and monument sign will remain exactly the same with final panel just being replaced with our brand. As far as the signs located on the site, I'd say we have as identified in the comments, we have a couple do not enter signs which are safety and instructional manner. One for our bailout lane so you don't enter it from the vacuum lot going in the opposite direction customers entering the washing. We also have one the tunnel exit in because the way the site is situated when you enter you could make a left assuming that's the tunnel entrance and it's not. So this is direct customers from that. There's another sign along our stack lane which is instructional nature to have the customers take their foot off the rag and it's um a lot of wording on it but it is when you're sitting in the stack it's instructional nature make sure it's a safe and they know how to operate through the process of expressing um couple signs at the kiosk and a sign at the tunnel entrance on the building which again reiterates please take your foot off the break hands off of the just redundant in nature because of the safety issues you can have in express. Um added landscaping throughout, added a irrigation system which provided a

breakdown of the zones and so we do make the property look better. Um and we do want to maintain it well. So that's what we need irrigation system. We have removed all of the marketing signs today to ensure that pool. So any feather signs, yard sign, those all been removed and will not be placed on the property unless operations wants to file for those signs for maybe short-term. Uh the one piece is the the booth which is all comments offices the booth. We we can remove the signage from the booth. I don't have a new booth because ours has the the AC exterior to the booth. um we have to look at another vendor that maybe provides that. We switched to that because of especially in the North Midwest where we operate the climates, right? We we're out there Monday through 7 days a week, Monday through Saturday, 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Sunday 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Whether it's rain, snow, sleep, or hail, our employees are out there. And so we've we've recently added boost and we're trying to retroly actively add boost to existing locations to allow our our team members to be able to service the customer anytime they want. So if you're a member, there's no interaction. You pull up the gate open. If you're sort of an allocart member or not a member yet, you go into the left lane and we have an employee, you always should interact with that customer. They will operate the kiosk. One, it makes it more efficient and intuitive process of either buying membership or not. And so the booth provides an area where they can sit out of heat, out of the rain, out of we unless I'm told at this meeting that a booth is absolutely will never be approved.

I will go back and figure out if there's a provider that has the air conditioning inside. I'm sure we can look into that. We would like to have the booth to provide that for employees. Obviously, we can't operate without it. we have operated without audit. We just feel with a better and work environment for our employees. Um the sign u the sign and sheets the three sheets that were submitted I know can be somewhat confusing but the the purpose of this was to categorize them and bunch them into categories of specific signs. So the best example would be section one which is the first two rows of signs. We're not proposing to install all those signs. Those are just signs that are typically interchanged in what we call wind master to be the signs on the building facing the background. So there's three of those that face the back lot um that are fixed onto the building. What this section proposes to be interchangeable. They're all the same size. um at different times they promote either sponsors um that we have guardians, the Browns, uh whether it's the community nonprofit that we sponsor through our TOW program, which is 100% of the time that money goes to the charity. So we never take anytime we sell a towel, that money 100% of the time. It's not a promotion that goes to the nonprofit we're sponsoring at the time. And then throughout the year, we sell air fresheners and those proceeds go to nonprofits. So we we advertise that for our customers to make them aware of that. The rest are pretty self-explanatory whether it is advertising what the watch does, what the benefits of an express are or the pricing. Um I think I'll leave that for any questions. I know everyone's very famili

Let me just You're not adding a booth to to your application. You were just talking about signs on a booth. Is that what you're talking about? Well, I'm confused on that. Was on the application. I'm just addressing the comments that said it was inappropriate. The booth? Yes. Oh, and basic materials and the signage and the text here AC unit. So I can the materials you know it's aluminum material probably similar to like window frames pretty consistent. The signage I know can be removed so the signage uh we can take that off of it. The AC unit I'm just not well versed enough in our booth quite honestly to speak to that. Um if there's a solution we can look into it.

That's fine. Okay. Thank you. But it is on the plan. All right,

Mr. France, do you want to go through your comments? Sure, I can. Um, I know your application was signed by Jared Norton. It looks like Jared Norton is with Morrison Signs. I'm sorry, I didn't catch your your name. Joe Buchi. Joe Buchi. Um, Joe, is that okay if I call you Joe? Yeah. Joe, what's your role with the application or the company? I'm I'm with the ownership. I'm the VP of development with Express Wash Concepts, Express Wash Concepts, which is the parent company, Clean Express Auto Wash, and Jared is our sign vendor who we contract with on all of our sites.

Okay, thank you. Um, so it looks like there was an approval for wall signage and um at some point a bunch of additional signage went up. We're here tonight to talk about that. And then this booth, I didn't realize is this booth already constructed? It is not there now. It's not there now. Regular kiosk like was there before. We we had Again, the whole process is convoluted, so apologies. It was installed thinking that that was a replacement for the kiosk, not realizing we needed a permit for that. We took it away and kiosk exists today and operates there.

Okay. And one of the things that um I did not uh note in my report and I just want to go back and and supplement that now. Um just missed it is the existing cabinet sign. Um just as you heard with the last application um you know it's the desire of the commission to eliminate these plastic cabinet signs and upgrade those. So I think that's a conversation needs to occur tonight as well about the architecture that of that cabinet sign. But um for a moment if we can just go talk about from my report dated July 12th talk about the additional signage and if I'm reading it correctly and you could tell me if I'm wrong there you're proposing 13 additional signs. Looks like there's uh four number one signs, which if I I'm not sure what number one is. It looks like it's this insert on this page. Uh four with number one. This insert on this P of those that are being proposed.

Three on the building and one at the tunnel exit which faces it's 8 ft from the tunnel. Face of the tunnel. Yes. Okay. So you can't see it anywhere except exiting the tunnel. The one on the tunnel. Correct. It's under our wash our go sign which lets customer know where they can and there's signage already existing on the tunnel now. Yes. Okay. So, these are four additional wall signs being proposed. The one at the tunnel exit was an upgrade from a I think it was damaged, but don't quote me on that, but it was a similar dry go sign uh that was much taller and linear in height, but that was replaced with our um dry go sign,

which lets you know if you stop, you know, don't hit the gas yet until you're off conveyor. Mhm. Now, what's under that sign is um is what we call wing master is this sign. So, it's all one unit. There was an that was an that replaced an existing I guess was internally illuminated with I don't know what it was. I thought it was LED existing here but maybe but it was an internal illuminated sign at the tunnel exit which did the same thing. It told customers when they could hit the gas, take it out and Okay. And it it contained a logo the previous one. Yeah. It was just instructional in nature. Pictures. Yeah. I believe it was instruct instrually instructional nature.

Yeah. I don't remember Mr. France. I'll show you if he remembers that.

Yeah. So So the reason I ask is instructional doesn't contain it's you know no logo, no sort of corporate identification. It's really by the code. It's a sign intended to instruct employees, customers, or users as to a specific parking requirement, location, or specific services offered, methods of payments accepted, but can't contain um like a logo or identification. Can't say cleanlin or clean express or anything like that. That's a instructional sign. And those are limited to square footage. What's um not clear to me is uh how big the instructional signage that you're proposing at item number one is because are they all this 28x 44?

Correct. Okay. So they are 28x 44 and there's four of those three on the building, one on the total. Yes, sir. Okay. So that obviously you recognize will require a variance from the board of zoning appeals for that because the code reads all building elevations um can have one wall sign is the way the code reads basically set aside square footage area. You can have one per elevation eligible elevation. Can I ask a clarifying question just so I understand very similar signs throughout Macedonia and you see and again to be fair most of them are in windows.

So is the distinction that if we were to just reposition those three into the windows that are on that building similar to the Wendy's the Taco Bell the O'Reillies the Auto Zone um I'd have a whole list that and it's not one it's multiple signs even next door the Cosmo Prof. I mean there's four signs in their windows. So, if those signs were to be taken out of those we call them windm frames and then placed in the windows, do they now become compliant?

Um, well, I I don't know the answer to that question. So, we have a a regulation under 117903 um 117903 D um which allows for window signage and that has specific regulations as to the percentage of the glass area. And so, yes, window signage is allowed. If you wanted to apply for window signage, it's possible that you could get it. Those ones you're speaking to, I don't know if they have approval. They could just be enforcement issues. They could be active or new enforcement issues. I I just don't know the answer to that.

Um, it's easy to look around town and see examples of things that might be similar, but knowing the status of those examples is a whole different issue. Okay. So, coming I have these um four number ones and then it looks like a number one number three. Uh which number three appears to be aluminum neutral braking steering 12 in by 36 in.

Yeah. Um so That's an instructional sign provided it doesn't have clean express and wash on it. Um, that would be an instructional sign less than four square ft and can be approved by the planning commission. Um, and it looks like you have two number four signs which are just simply please do not enter four square feet and that's definitely an instructional sign approvable by the planning commission. Then you have one number six which is an exit sign and pointing to vacuums four square feet. And again that would be an identification sign. And then that's one of those. And then one number 11 um which is a little over two square feet. Has a QR code with your symbol and your name and such on there. So again, can't contain those things. So if it didn't and it was just instructional in nature, that's acceptable. Plush can approve it. Then you have two number 12 signs which is definitely for sure signage by the code. So it' be a wall sign. Generally it's uh extremely signed. I mean there's instructional signage

which is important and pertinent to the site. I just generally think it's way oversigned. Um, now I I think um so with that said, um the commission really can't approve a a lot of this tonight because you know it just a lot of it contains sure

what's deemed to be a sign and then there's too many on each building elevation which are limited to one. Um but what they could approve is your ex you know the and that would require planning commission approval and upon resubmission you could certainly include that in just same thing um have the sign vendor would provide the you know the area of the window and then the size of the sign and what it looks like what you guys got. Yeah, we only have the sprinkler zones and then the landscaping

landscaping and then Mr. Prince. Yeah, there's the monment and and there's that whatever. Yeah. and and determine what's and and determine what's you know absolutely necessary. Can logos come off and such to meet the instructional requirements of the code. So that that's something the applicants already said that he's going to do. Um, you could approve the

cabinet sits on a brick base and the landscaping that has just overtaken that because it's not visible but like you're so the signage package really should have shown that then it should have shown that it said on the existing basically we're seeing right here is this that's all we