Bza Meeting - Regular Meeting

can we get a roll call Mr Westbrooks here Mr Wallen Hurst here miss musky here first approval December 16 2024 minutes anybody have any comments all right favor all right first I have a few material samples should I drag those up here reason that that is that drawings that have been revised again uh there's notes all over the elevations about the materials the building section there pictures of alls all identified by name what they are

so the drawings are revised to cover pretty much everything that we talk about also out a copy of the space agreement that if it's acceptable to the city we get that ex okay I guess we go through uh Mr Fran comments and yeah if there's anything that's been updated we but to it something to following this go over thank you Mr chairman my report dated January 1st um so as the applicant stated this uh my review this report is based on the current submitt which was subst which is a January submitt which was substantially similar to the December submitt that was brought to the meeting what appears to have changed is the applicant has addressed the parking by doing an analysis of existing parking in both the subject site and the Methodist Church adjacent that's being proposed for the Shar parking agreement which is helpful it's something we've talked about a number of times and that's helpful that's there so my report removes a lot of the prior language regarding outstanding uh particularly about the retreat center those items surface again at any point in the future my comments concerns would still remain

valid so this current submission addresses um three primary things the shower facilities in the classroom meeting room area which was previously The Retreat Center the driveway connection between the subject site and the United Methodist Church to the East and then the total off street parking available and needed for subject site as well as as the United Methodist Church that's subject to the agreement so I'll go through my comments so under the preliminary development plan um the shower facilities have been eliminated and when you look at the plans um it does now detect two assessible bathrooms no facilities with a mechanical equipment room just inside the men's restroom mechanical room is a furn and a Serv just outside the are is a symbol C which I presume to be theing unit maybe the architect can confirm that was that the air it was yes it was a condenser okay so it's been moved yeah there was a request there to move it to the other side so it's been moved on the drawings that I gave you this evening reflect that were talked about in your in the notes that I got Monday anyway January yes all right so that was one that was my comment was that we need to make sure there's no mechanical you know units visible from visible from the common spaces and the Airing unit should be move to a spot that's not right out in front of the drop off area that's been done yes the other thing it's been done that we

talked about previously the um paved access between the Methodist Church and the subject site was shown as 20 ft and it was shown closer to a ra road that has and we had a lot of conversation about that at the last meeting and um that has been increased 22 feet to be compliant with the code as well as moved further back on the property into a SP and kind of just you know drew a circle with a little arrow on my in my report to a spot that generally off from the previous spot which was going kind of right through those paper bins yes as a result of resulting from that move paper bins aren't being impacted so it sounds like that's not going to be an issue um it's really more of you know an Enforcement issue then for the city that they're not screen like they should be but nevertheless it's not impacted as a part of this project anymore and the uh again the 20 was increased to 22 so that that's all good um but my comment to that was that we still need to see this agreement that would be in perpetuity that has been submitted here this evening yes and it's on signed I noticed so it's not signed by either party at this point well not yet we didn't going through all the signing stuff if it wasn't if the city wasn't in agreement with the language okay um do you know if the Methodist Church is in agreement with the language they wrote it okay they wrote it y so do you know if your client's in agreement with the language yes okay so you're prepared to execute it on your your end as your client and so is the church yes so the city will have to conduct a review of it um I'll look at it and

likely Mr G will also take a look perhaps a city engineer uh so that's that was my second comment in in the report so we have that that's good and then um my third comment about the on the schematic site plan about the drop off area appreciate you clean that area up it looks much better on the on the design and you picked up a space or two of parking and doing that so that was good and then the arit ation been updated sheet six and seven um sheet seven page s introduces a single exterior door in the classroom in room elevation it was present in November submission but removed in the December submission so I'm not sure what's happening there that door has reappeared I'm just wondering what's going on there which door are we talking about now sorry uh it was um let me pull it up let me open up my plan sheet I'll just kind of hold it up for you how's that okay sure that orange okay see that yes that door was here it disappeared and it's back right so maybe during your discussion you get to explain why and what the the purpose of that door is cuz it it's come and gone over some right and then um again hbac units we just need to know where these things are make sure they're screen and then at the last meeting we talked about you said you would resubmit sheet nine which is the framing plan for the newly proposed classroom meting room space do you remember that yes and and I

think I had mentioned this then omitting them was just because I there wasn't really re reason for them to be there yeah because the roof framing is kind of like nuts and bolts of the thing but since you had mentioned it I just put them back in that's the only reason they're there so is it back in it's not in this it's in this no it's not in the one subm in December for January it's in your but it's in this one that I'm giving you okay now just shoulder back in there and it may not be um it may it may be fine I just would like to see it being it was submitted originally right i' like to see what it looks like in it's current form yeah uh and then the last couple items lighting photometrics um we still need that oh yeah and then we need landscaping and we need storm water management more than just con you know concept obviously your civil will need to engage and design that in more detail for the city engineer to op Pine on but with that said the ponary plan I think is sufficient enough at this point going to be considered for approval with the stipulations you know as we've talked about the primary issue to date was that concept of creating living units in the retreat center um your client has abandoned that and has done at this meeting room classroom space and previously had some showers we talked about that at the last meeting that's been revised to eliminate the showers and there's just additional mechanical or um storage that's created in the men's restroom so with that said uh that that issue is you know substantially gone but in so far as in the future you know it's again it's an R1 residence District it's a use it's not permissible so we have to maintain as

some permissible use like the meeting rooms one of the things that I have Mr Abraham pentat representing the church he's here to speak to anything that you may want him to reinforce uh from the church's perspective rather than just hearing from me sure and that in the commission I think we'll bring have that presentation or discussion yeah I just noted in my report okay and then uh my last thing is just a share parking agreement again just taking a look at that because if for some reason that doesn't come to fruition you do show a 56 space parking lot that can be constructed on the property obviously storm water management would have to be increased to volume to accommodate it I'm assuming but we made it bigger yeah okay but nevertheless you have the area to do it so if the share parking agreement falls through your client's prepared to build that to comply with the code absolutely so with that said I'd recommend approval subject to all right and if I could could I address that those door that door that disappeared and came back the reason that disappeared is the reason it disappeared and came back is all my doing and or error if you want because I realized that when we when we had the classrooms the dead end there were two issues related to Fire and exit and that was dead end Corridor that can't be over 20t or 22 ft long and secondly I didn't want you can't enter you can't have an exit Corridor that is rating and then goes into another space of a lesser rating and I realized when I took those doors out if those weren't there I had two dead end corridors and the only way out was to go through other spaces and that

didn't work so I had to put the doors back in so that's that was all was a code thing thank you I guess what the Yeah the reason we asked you to bring your client along with you is just to hear from him that you understand uh you know that that what's being thank you for coming appreciate you coming um just what you know make sure hear from you specifically that you understand that you know we're the The Retreat space under the current code would not be would not be allowed and you recognize that and um what else Mr Fran think that that you know if if something were to change in the future it would have to come back here if you ever decided to Institute that you wanted to do that um so I guess for the record you do recognize that and understand okay I guess that was that was the main reason I feel like you know seems kind of silly but I think we you know Mr ran does a great job of representing you but when there's something that's like this like to make sure that you're fully understanding that I miss anything would be important to ask no Mr Abraham yes and what's your role with the church sir I am the coordinator for the building the building or you know building construction and also I'm the committee membering committee member okay so you are a member of the church yes and you have the authority to bind the church to statements made this even yes thank you and you acknowledge what Mr yes thank you thank you Mr have yeah thanks chairman um you guys have my memo there's five comments on there the first four are repeat

comments that have been on there really since the very first submitt so I'm not going to bother to uh repeat all of those they can all be addressed administratively when you apply to building department for final permitting uh the last comment was with regards to the access Drive between uh Gregorio and the neighboring church and it appears that in this drawing that was dropped off here today that the access Drive is gone is that correct yes sir and we'll have only a sidewalk between the two parking lots yes sir okay well if that's the case then my comment number five probably no longer applies goes away goes away yeah okay well that it was honestly I like this approach better anyways uh traffic wise I I think it's better it eliminates the crossover traffic people trying to make a left you know use your parking lot to try to make a left uh safer it's better all the way around well it was a request that the not a request it was an issue that I discussed with one of the trustees of the church several times his name is Kevin Smith we had some very ni conversations and talked about safety and all those kinds of things abuse and that's what I was getting at and we decided uh we decided together that they would write it into this agreement that the drive would not exist that's perfect so so it's in the agreement so the set of drawings that you receive tonight that that driveway is gone all right and so it'll be in any be part of any approval you might receive tonight as well right all right that sounds good to me thanks chairman

all right uh new fire department representative yes um so I sorry for the late to middle but I kind of got just dumped on me um at the last minute the fire department things concerns are I mean extending the fire alarm into the new sections of the building I know they updated their panel recently and hopefully that panel will support the other devices that are necessary um the other is is is there going to be fire separation between the old and new yes okay because if not then it puts them into a sprinkler you know scenario those will be and separations mentioned in here it says firewall okay and I miss in both places but yes there will be there will be fire separation rated rated assemblies rated doors anything that's necessary toate that great so that we have SE all the areas are separate and then the final is just the distance from the street um local ordinance uh if it's more than 300 ft requires a yard hydrant well that's in this and I I'm not sure how this happened unless it's a computer thing on my end but the civil engineers have already been engaged and have there was at one point there was a set of very preliminary engineering drawings submitted and that hydrant has already been accounted for it's on the it's on the the early civil engineering plans okay when the new water line comes in then there will be a there will be a hydrant Factor by the and the code's a little more restrictive than the Ohio code so it's an 8 inch size main you know on a on a yard hydr C coming in from the street correct yes okay yeah and I didn't see that in this plans but well I I think probably the plans you have it's not and I'm not sure what happened I have to go back and find

out when I attach drawings and get get them so but they are in existence all right yeah so those are the comment the smallest print I've ever seen you do show it on here oh I do Hy sorry my mistake need a microscope well and I didn't have this set actually if you look the lettering on the dumpster is smaller yet so no it is you're right I'm not so concerned about the dumpster sorry but on the final plans everything be much more legible scale yes in fact these are these were just shrunk down so that they could be 11 by 17 those are the comments from thank you you know you I have uh some comments about the parking area I I think it's great that you know your neighbors allow you to park there however there's a couple issues here number one it's not a continuous permission to par there number two you are parking at the North uh Northwest section and I drive by there just about every day and it's the only section that's being occupied by them because you know most of the action is on that side and then the next thing is we need to have a stipulation here that if this agreement is ended then you would have to install your parking lots in your property that's fine okay I don't think that needs that will be part of their agreement but we can put that in well however you would want that done I'm I'm not sure I yeah th this I mean not to get into it too far into the weed night this agreement will not work for the city it's an occasional use agreement it's not an impetu that's what the city needs it's an agreement that says we're always allowed to use it there's no

restrict this one we in advance notice doesn't not work for the city because what if that one we notice that's to from your client to the Methodist Church and the Methodist Church says no well then we have a parking problem right it's it has to be in perpetuity if you can't get one in perpetuity you're you're going to need to install that's why that parking lot we need to know what what that's why we're here doing this so yeah well I'm letting you know right now that there's no need to send this to the law director this will not work for the city no that's fine what I'm asking is for you to send me what you needed to say and we'll fix it needs to be in perpetuity so that's I'll provide comments and well that's what I guess that's what I'm I guess that's all I'm saying is in your comments let us know what you needed to say and we'll get with the church and get it yeah and resubmit it all my reports have referenced you know a document it would be in perpetuity I I have thought imp perpetuity means it doesn't end but you're saying means all the time it's all the time I know that's what Inu I thought it meant continuous but if it's all the time fine we can talk with them and get that okay so that one week's notice is the is the thing that's the issue it has to be anytime any any Ty no the the whole document's an issue the first statement the lur which is the Methodist Church agrees to provide l e your client with the occasional use oh okay all right it's it's I understand what you're saying you're you're trying to fulfill a parking requirement for your client's property right which means you have to have it available all the time all the time right I got and without permission all right you're getting permission through this document and then it needs to be

recorded and then the mechanism is is the buing commissioner said a mechanism that involves the city a notice to the city in the event you're going to breach this agreement a notice to the city would have to occur before you could breach this agreement you would need to have parking in place to cover the breach of the agreement I understand what you're saying so you can't simply say you know you guys say ah you know this isn't quite working out we don't like it and then break the agreement because then we have a parking problem right and our code's being violated and that's that's not good okay so well we'll we'll rework this and send it up so you can see it I just don't I I mean we don't have a problem I don't think they do either they just sat down and they wrote something up yeah under understood so for tonight's purposes I would just recommend to the commission that they approve it subject to either a parking agreement that's in perpetuity with the city as a a mechanism of default okay um or construction of the parking lot before the agreement becomes invalidated sure something to that effect yeah okay so will so that will be in your okay I see more question marks floating in the clouds so you know my my Shing is you know you're you're building on your property you got room on your property you have designed the parking lots in your property I would feel much much better if you just install parking spaces on your property that's my personal opinion I I understand you guys questions no I think we'll need to just take some time to the architectural elevations that we just received tonight in terms of like the materials and stuff

like that um with it just being a conditional approval something I me Pam has seen yet so I'm assuming she going and I know she had a bunch of coms so I think we'll just kind of wait to digest these and then additional comments back but I do I do agree with Pam's comments and they've continuously come up is that the architecture on the outside of the building needs to be needs to be looked at a little bit more in detail um it it's really hasn't changed much and she's continued to provide the same comments back and forth again and again so I think you need to take some time to look at the architecture the outside the building in terms of materials you're using in terms of the design of it to uh to make it tie a little bit better than what's there not really um I was just wondering if this contract imp perpetuity really does mean like an end date um would it be better if they just took off the adjective occasional and just said to provide the lesie with the use of up to 50 spes yeah that would even more CLE I would just think of more clean and simple and then it would be that that is an element for sure that I think doing it the way you just described will resolve that particular matter and then there's the just notice that all has to be removed and then um and again a mechanism in the event of a default in the agreement elimination of the agreement between two parties the city it can't be eliminated till the city is notified and construction of an adequate parking lot took

place now that's assuming Mr Monaco's preference is to have it constructed so that's the commission needs to figure out you know which Avenue to go but if you go with share parking agreement we need to tighten that up and change language that's acceptable to the city i' always prefer to save trees I think if they can get the out okay I gu any other thoughts this time okay um well I'll make a motion for preliminary plan approval with stipulations those being um the parking agreement still needs to be put in place uh complies with uh the requests uh being in in perpetuity as well as how do we refer that a uh ability for the city to uh notification the city of a termination or default catch that Susan what so imp perpetuity and uh notification to the city if the contract uh defaults as well as uh specifically KN that the the living Retreat units are not allowed we discussed that and uh also note that uh the final plan must uh comply with the comments from all the staff and consultant reports is there a second I'll second Mr

chair I just said that you know when I get the document uh I would I just like you to know that I won share it with the law director because I would I inut on it absolutely I'm not an attorney and I don't claim to be one so thank you that's fine um anything else you think was missed no I think I heard you say as it related to the agreement and any other items deemed necessary uh for change after foreview of the document by the city which is inclusive of the law director could you repeat that slower you heard any other items deemed necessary to change after full review by of the document by the city inclusive of the law director right discussion all in favor I all right one who seconded that I did thank you hopefully not may I Mr chair yes and Mr Winkleman I and I know I mentioned this last time and I I strongly encourage you to take your time I know you want to get under construction but take your time and wrap all of this into a a complete comprehensive submitt it just makes it easier for you and your client and saves costs all along the way if we get one complete document addresses all these items and not having it at the meeting because then it gets you know the proverbial can gets kicked down the road again and hopefully you can wrap up these things and we come to the meeting ready for final plan

approval and we can be more efficient reviewing if it falls up once no question about it okay thank you I guess I need to understand then so so there isn't a I don't know how to say this I would have been I think I would have been in error to my client if I had brought a complete package the first time and then found out everything was wrong so I have to go back and change all the engineering and all that stuff I thought this was to be a preliminary plan approval and then you get a preliminary plan plan approval then you do a complete set of construction documents making sure that you cover all these last things am I no no you're you're correct it's just the time in which you it's a submission time so you're racing to meet the next deadline which is in a few days well the race no I'm not racing for that for the next meeting and then you won't have a submission no so it'll save everybody including your client no there will be a submission by by this Friday yeah okay well thank you no we all of the things that we ended up doing over the last four months was us stumbling all over ourselves to get to a point where we could get a preliminary approval so then we can bring everybody else on board because they've all just been waiting you know all the engineers and everybody's been waiting until we got that what we just received yeah we'll come with the whole ball wax good the next time thank you okay thank you thank you the next item uh sign representing digital print solutions uh the

applicants request or applicant request to be continued to the February meeting um so request I'll make a motion to continue that to the February meeting is our second second all in favor right the last thing is on our agenda is Mr and your Amendment defin Amendment I know it these guys did too I know Mr France put together some form comments um we'll go over those anybody else know least question or two like to go over your your thoughts on that sure um my report dated January 4th um so this aity Council initiative to planning zoning code specifically chapters 1133 and 1171 to address the definition of corner Lots related corner lot fences um in that context the amendment uh as drafted substantially does three things eliminates two front yards for Corner lots and defines the front yard for corner lot is the yard that contains the street address of the property establishes a 10 set back for privacy fenes from the road right away moreover The Proposal also changes the required percentage from 25 to 15 for the vertical service of the privacy fence open air and light and then it adds welded Warrior fence to the list of already prohibited bar boorder fence substantially that's what the amendment does so my comments to each of those are um regarding the two front yards it is very common in z across the country

to have two front yards but that is a policy decision of a local jurisdiction there's no legal requirement that I'm aware of that says you have to have two front yard set backs for corner corner Lins it's really to provide that separation and intersections and keep open space at those locations but again it's a policy decision so if this is the approach of the city that they desire which it seems to be then I think the amendment is drafted addresses the inst in the code in which um Corner lots are are discussed so that's that's good um the establishment of the 10 10 foot setbacks I think is acceptable but it relates to um right of away and I just said the city has a lot of private streets so I think the intent would be You' want that 10 foot setback from um private streets as well so uh as it's drafted right now is just from the um right away so I just suggested that um consideration should be uh given to being both from the private property line and or the right away whichever is greater but not to exceed 10 ft so basically you cover your private Street instances as well I think that you'd want to do that and then um I do think that you'd be best served to keep the 25% open there and light that's very common in zoning codes and what that does esally the interpretation is that avoids Stockade style fency and keeps it more to like a board on board or slightly open fence you know that it's commonly interpreted that board on board fencing meets the 25% um again it's a policy decision but 25% is definitely the more common percentage in Z codes um and then just consideration I

felt should be given to adding ra wire and electrified fences as part of those prohibited Styles and those are my comments to the can I respond to them yes please okay um uh the reason we didn't consider the private roads I think is because of the fact those are would be HOAs and none of this stuff can be built in any of the HOAs that I'm aware of that's my thought process I'm not sure if that's a correct thought process but that is my thought process that's not issue issue as far as I'm thinking you're not going to see a fence in an HOA just like you're probably not going to see a shed in Ho either I'm H ho that it's private street it's probably true I kind of agree but you never know it's not the development I used to live in that Chris Liv in currently does have fences in there yeah um and it is a private development it is private streets and everything like that but we review them correct when they come in make sure they're on the property and you and then we have architectural standards so can is it necessary for us to add to that or will there be a conflict of interest then I think it would I think it should be personally I think it should be put in there just to protect the because if the development doesn't specifically spell it out and we don't call it out here either but it's going to conflict where one group was allowed to do something and another group wasn't allowed to do something now granted one's an HOA and one may not be but again then you have a conflict that where yeah so so the city rule is always Trump so if we have more restrictive rules they have to the HOA has to follow those but if an HOA has more restrictive rules the city doesn't have to follow it

so in this circumstance or this instance if there's no setback from a private Street and a application comes to Mr Monaco and he says well you need to put a setback in and they don't have to follow it if there's no requirement in the code but um within their own HOA rules if they have a greater one we can approve it the city can approve it so if they say it has to be 20 feet and the city says 10 feet and they come with an application to the city for 10 ft he has Mr Monaco has to approve as long as meets all the other requirements he has to approve it at the 10 fee even though the HOA won't approve it but we don't enforce their rules well actually we would request approval from the HOA first before they come to us so yeah we don't enforce the rules but as courtesy we ask the ho EXA and that's yeah so that's a that's a internal administrative policy the city exercises which if that's what they do right so yeah okay the next one the reduction from 25% to 15% of light and uh air that was my compromise for not going after a complete privacy fence as I have in my but that was years ago with approval from the city um the pro the issue that came up that brought that to F was people that live on Corners that uh Street runs perpendicular to them so you have say birkshire meets up against shepher Road the house that's across the street on the next on that corner going farther east okay when those people turn all that light you know at Night comes through there if we could lower the the the ability for so

much light and noise to come through there and it's the same thing with with noise as far as she roads Major Street as far as traffic is concerned Crow Road is a major Street as far as uh same thing and it has the same issue the streets had come out perpendicular to Crow okay so that's why that was taken into consideration and I gave up on the priv the comple and total privacy f after many conversations um I don't think it's unfair the only thing that that when I went after this whole thing to to meet this board on board it costs the resident more money it's more expensive to them okay like I said that this is my compromise to going after that okay and I understand there are still requests for a complete and toal privacy fence the welded wire was added and that was by request of the building department the uh considerations uh in the comments we I with uh the thought between uh the law director Mr G and myself is that uh razor wire would be the same as bark wire I don't know if there's really a difference I thought it would be one and the same yeah they're different they're different well I I can add that I will I'll add that that's not an issue sure five fences are already in this in the ordinance they're already there we checked and double checked just so that's already that's already taken care of um so it's in a different section somewhere I don't know exactly where it is but Mr it up stand there going over the memorandum

City question on the 15% 20 or yeah 1525 is if the typical board on board fence is considered that 25% is there commercially available or is this like a custom fence that has 15% what what happens is if you go to Lowe's yeah you're going to get the 25% you're going to buy a 6ot panel or an OT panel my fence was done from scratch okay they brought stack of dog yeah build it on site build it right on site and that's uh the majority of what you get the majority of what you see people that uh fencing companies don't go byy pounds at Lowe's or or Home Depot they come with a flatbed loaded with all the different bumbers that that is needed and they put it together at that time so there is there is something that could be yeah there is a an actual difference you they have to build it on site and all that kind of stuff right I guess um yeah I'm not sure how much different that really looks 10% not sure but I guess you know council could consider Mr fr's thoughts on it and I don't know one thing another city I'm working with on project but you know the 25% it's you know similar code um the 25% is for wind loads of the funds you have let a certain amount flow through because that not existed anymore I I checked and double checked that is not an issue I got when I first started this project over six months ago looking into this it was two things the wind Shure issue and safety issue as far as police

departments okay no policeman's going to walk up to side of off fence and look and try look in it sideways and see what's going on behind there and I can tell you that from experience I was a technical officer different type of tacnical Officer that's not an issue and these uh defenses the way they're built now I forget what exactly they're they can stand up to without an issue U but it's it's quite a bit it's it's over 100 miles per hour I think it's even 100 more than 125 miles per hour and I took all of those issues into consideration and did my research on that and talking to the people that it affects and to see that I I talked to fencing people also and that they say that that windsh is not an issue anymore but the issue is is the trees and the debris that fall in those fences not the fences themselves no the only you and I heard the 15% and I know that he's very emotional about getting you know privacy to the resident and I I totally understand that but I think going to 15% it may add to the cost of the of the fence because it have to be custom made so I you know I would check make sure that you don't you don't cost your res more money you're already costing them more money by not letting them have a privacy fence well let's go with a privacy fence I mean I I because you're only putting the boards on one side you're not putting the Imports on both sides that's already an additional cost and that that's again that's a policy question because you know there's an Aesthetics to board on board versus Stockade style fencing um and that's you know so that's really a question is do you want to shift away from the more aesthetically

pleasing board on board to a stockade style if the answer is yes then I would agree with Mr Monaco just a limit just go to zero and just allow them to butt up to one another if that's what you're trying to accomplish well that's what I would like to see and by the request and the uh residents that I've talked to they'd love to have that okay I didn't want to fight that battle this is my first time of going this type of Route okay I didn't I didn't want to do battle I don't like to lose it seemed like it had the general appearence that if I was going to go that route that I was going to lose totally okay so this was my compromise that I mentioned now this is the third time I said that this is my compromise so if you guys have discussed this at length at Council it's been brought up everybody seems to be okay with with what we proposed and what I put together with the law director the only comment that was made and I I find it hard to believe that one of the council members wasn't sure that you know what I was going after to eliminate some of these issues to begin with with the two uh Mars I go really this is your only question this the only input I got and I asked while sitting at the DS I've asked for input more than one time from city council and from the residents I've asked for it publicly okay I'm getting it from the residents I got nothing from city council other than looks good to me sounds sounds reasonable and that's all I'm get I mean if you want to let me go with zero I'll go with zero I'm not suggesting that I like 25 but um that's a it's again that's a policy issue there's nothing legal about it it's whether you want to allow fullon stock

aade or have Aon light come through because one's aesthetically different than the other definitely aesthetically different um you know but if you're giving the residents the choice what are they going to choose and this came to me for residence I it doesn't affect me in any way shape or form my fence has been up probably 20 years and uh during the the wind shear issues like the uh owner of a fence company told me you know the trees did the damage to my fence the fence didn't go down do you have any I do not chairman thank you Mr Smith um so I guess can you help to find what are we what are we doing we just what are they looking for from us recommendations yeah so it's an amendment there's there's there's two aspects of a zoning code there's the text and the map and you can amend either in this case they're proposing to amend the text so by code you have to provide a report and recommendation regarding the amendment that's being proposed so this gets that Miss um that our planing commission assistant in the building department is looking up about the process because there was that one question about that ordinance and how it impacted um so ordinance amendments to the zoning code have to come to the Planning Commission for report and recommendation and then Council um at the end of the day can do what council feels um the most appropriate as the legislators of the community I don't know in your Charter and you know neither here nor there but if the

commission recommended against it the charter May Define how council's action has to occur some Charters will say if it's a negative recommendation of the commission they need a super majority of council checked that already sir okay so it's it's not a super majority just a majority the procedure um was brought to my attention the same day you brought it to my attention the first time I Was Here by Mr G the law director okay okay about the procedure I had to go through to do what we're doing okay I was not aware of that but that's why I've taken the time to do everything I've done is to do it properly and and keep the respect of of the people that I am dealing with at this particular time the city planner and the building Planning Commission I've been educated quite a bit and that's what it's all about so this so it sounds like there's no Charter provision so it's just a report and recommendation and then majority of council would have to do something some action as it related to the request approve it so if we still chose to if we all three kind of agree yeah I I I like all your comments that you had can we make a recommendation for approval but consideration of the comments from the planner is that would that something like that be acceptable uh recommendation to the council or are they looking so that's a punt essentially um and you could do that if the issue that I hear right now is the the 15% versus 25% and it's really it really is a it's a different product it is stock Aid versus um board on board and so the commission if you if you're okay and just say you know just these comments to council then you're pting

that's fine if you feel strongly either way then you should recommend either way okay okay because Council needs to know what the planning commission's thinking it is it it is a big difference like in terms of the look of the fense going from the 15 to from the 25 to the 15% and given the fact that there are other cities I looked up and they are all pretty pretty much on the same pain person open air requir if somebody felt very strongly and I know you're trying to avoid them having to go to the board of zoning appeals that's one of my biggest reasons I know it is and that's but I think if like I I don't have an issue with the other portions of this I feel like it's good but I do feel like the 25% to a 15% is I personally feel just based on the research I've done and such it it needs to remain at the 25% you have a sense of how many people are going to opt for that tighter or lesser they if I don't know how many people will opt for it because I don't know if that many people understand what it is now right okay their concern what they were opting for is the Sal they were a complete total propense that's what they were opting for so I'm not sure if they know that those boards are 25% you know a and and life passing through them I really I can't honestly answer that I'm just because as Mr pointed out that they are more expensive and they're also more expensive right off a Jump Street than the privacy fence because you're using more material so I mean how much more I don't know according to the gentleman that put the company that put my fence up if mine was to board to board a board on board it would have cost me depending

on the foot length linear feet length used it could have cost me anymore anywhere from $200 to $600 more I'm guessing it probably be at least 25% more if we've got 25% overlap eliminate that 25% less board um yeah $110,000 fence is going to be 12 13 Grand how you think do you get any suggestions aing of you know support but we feel 25% should beain the only issue you guys have yeah I feel like that's I mean otherwise again I'm fine with that I'm fine with Brian's um Brian's comments in terms of basically the number one I'm good with for Brian number two I agree with as oppos to 15 in consideration just adding those those comments in there and I would just say that if we're um I know you mentioned it's in the code somewhere else it's just verification before we before we' write that piece of it off Mak a recommendation for the electrified fences just confirming that it's somewhere in there if it if it is great if it's not then just adding no it's in there it THS if if it's in there then I'm okay that I would just say adding the razor wire because it is a different type of fence than I wasn't sure no it's okay well what I think some of that comes down to it also come down to the potential fence person the way they may be marketing the way they buying their material to somebody call it a razor fence call so I think it comes down to that Mak sure of encompassing those those two

words to avoid um somebody being to get we don't want you know I I have a lot of other things brought to me and I just didn't feel that if was something I wanted to deal with and that the uh vza still needed to be involved in those other requests that I got you know I have which I'm not going to bring it back here just like when I was a union rep if it didn't violate anything the Merit rules the policies and procedures contract I would not go for a gri grievance i' take them to the chief if you wanted to send Fe we talk about it but I would not let that person L arrange of agreements um I have people that want to at least on their back portion of the the back of the lot they want to go anywhere from 8 to 10 feet because of two reasons number one either they've got bad neighbors or number two that the topography changes from Street to Street and with a six foot fence you know you're still easily seen over but I'm not dealing with that those are just some of the things I ran across in the last six months but I think some of the things that like I don't I do agree there are some some language changes that should be made to ours but I don't feel like our code the way parts of it sit right now are any more rest than most other cities around the area with all of the research I I did as far as uh the two you know two front yards that I didn't find anybody that I talked to that had it and I had one engine laugh oh I was referring more to the 25% off the other parts of it agree I AG

changes I'm saying I was thinking you were talking the whole thing no no no I that eliminates that itself eliminates a lot of these things to go to the bza right there I mean if you can go to the front line of your house and everything in between is still your side yard or your backyard you can put a gate there you can bring your mols through there and that's one of I I have a real problem with one of the ones that was ruled on I I still steaming over you know it doesn't concern me um at all but I felt sorry for that Resident the way that Resident what that Resident had to deal with and why I she's got 30t to the right they won't let her bring it out anymore she got a 4ot panel from the house to where the fence had to start she had to put the gate three panels farther down the RO went down the line wasn't I just didn't understand it at all um I I will wait for your recommendations and I will present it to council when I get them and there's no hurry again I'm not going to hold you any time stamp well I think I'm I'm I'm okay with yeah I as well I think over not to not and not do take a stab here at a at a at a motion um you guys can correct me um make a motion to recommend approval of the changes with the consideration of the planner's comments but specifically note that we strongly support maintaining the 25% open air razor wires or electrified fence electrified fence is already in there bar wi there bar wire but we're adding razor wire because it is different than

barb wire I guess it's said the oh yeah we agree with that sorry okay yeah is there a second yeah I guess I since it's mentioned in there do we need to specifically mention raise wi again okay say it one more time so it just support uh approval of the the changes with consideration of Mr Francis comments specifically we strongly uh support the maintaining the 25% open air requirement got a second is that strong enough Mr or is that still kind of it's policy issue so how are we frame it uh keep in mind I'm probably going to live this Flo anyway because of the fact that now we're in the process of replacing Mrs pully so we only have we we have like six people apply for that position so far don't close applications until Friday we've interviewed one already because she's going to be out of state you know during that week that we've set up the interviews so I'm probably going to hang on for this there's no hurry Susan to to get that to us okay okay I'm just you know nobody's going to be applying for offens who'll be coming they're going be coming You' be surprised we all in favor yes God I I would like to thank you for how I've been treated here uh the education that I got being here it's it's been a pleasure well I

have to say we learned some from you too so you know you did a lot of work and you called a lot of lot of people and we appreciate that yeah most Council people don't do that yeah friends I don't think they knew what they got I don't think the rest of council knew what they were getting into when I got elected there you go I'm I'm very proactive good good thank Youk you very much make a motion to adjourn all favor