City Council - Special Meeting

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staff would request that we amend the agenda to include consideration of proposed mural make a motion we amend the agenda I have some material

Which one do you want to do first? Do you want to do the budget or the amendment first?

prefer the budget because there has been some discussion with other council members that wants to be present and they're not here at this time.

So you want to just table the budget meeting?

No, we can start the budget.

Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. You got it, Ben. Go ahead.

All right. Well, if we'd like to, we'd start on the budget and just A few brief comments. You've been presented a balanced budget for the City of Louisville and I'd like to start off by first saying it's a good budget for the operations of the town. It's a good budget for the staff and it's a good budget for the citizens and residents and people that do business in this town as well. It's a bare bones budget. I'd like to introduce, if you don't know me, I'm Ben Blackburn. I'm the interim manager. This budget is a good budget, as I said earlier. But it's also a budget that has very conservative numbers in it. If you looked at the general fund, it's a 14% decrease from last year's budget or the current year budget. And in the water and sewer fund, It is a 15% decrease, and that even includes the 5% across the board increase in the water and sewer rates that is proposed in this budget. Some of the highlights that is presented in this budget are the 5% increase COLA across the board for all employees. There's a new police vehicle that's also under capital outlay projects. And there's an additional employee that will go into the recreation department.

Did we hire any more? Are we adding any more to the police department? No, sir.

Not at this time. Not at this time?

That's correct. But we increased the recreation. How many is in the recreation now?

There's one and a half. One works part-time and then there'll be another employee to come in.

You've got one full-time, that's Andrew, right?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Then you've got one part-time. That's where I say one and a half.

Don't we already have a part-time? Yes. Is the part-time still there?

Yes, sir.

So you've got two part-time.

Two full-time and one part-time.

Did we lose a part-time?

No, there's actually two part-times. Jeff and Kevin.

Did we get rid of that recycle place out there?

That's in the budget to be removed.

That's one of the biggest wastes of money we got.

And also how much money do we have in there for the people to take care of our town's business as far as coming up on this bid for the The LCC.

What's the total amount of money we have for LCC for the upcoming year?

$12,000.

It's typically $12,000 a year. That's what the budget is.

We got July 4th coming up. 250 years old that we've all known about all our lives since 1776. I came along in 1955. I didn't start learning about the Constitution, things like that, and how we got how we got to be a free society and how they had to hide to become a great American. What we have and we got to honor. We've got to honor the 250 year celebration that every 4th of July is special as well. We like we like we let's like so much in cohesiveness as far as kind of get this city move forward. Most important things we have is each other. And the way you honor each other is by doing things that, you know, for commemoration for the Fourth of July every year. And now it's 250 years. I'll never be here another 250 years, thank God. But I don't think none of us will. But if we do come up with another 250 years, and in the interim, people can look at this mural goes through and it passes, but you have to have money in the budget, in their budget, where they'll be the ones that are taking care of this. It won't be the council. But the money needs to be appropriated into the LCC.

Well, actually, it's $12,500. I understand.

But I'm talking about for the total year. They do stuff all year round. They just don't do this one thing here or whatever. It's a year-end deal. And it's a bargain because they volunteer. It's a volunteer deal. There's nothing, no one's paid out there. I think in recreation, where I think we're astronomically overwhelmed as far as what recreation, we had the old recreation committee back to where they could help out like it used to be. You know, you can't live in the past. But in the future, like you're talking about hiring these people part-time, full-time, whatever, it requires benefits, it requires salary, it requires money to pay these folks. Our police department, how many total police do we have, 10 or 11? 11. Got 11 police officers and you got the, once this infrastructure comes in down here, we definitely have to go to 13 because you got all these houses, all these apartments and things like that. But that's up to this council how they do that. I'm not saying, I'm not politicking for either one of them, nobody. I'm just saying you have to have the infrastructure to take care of the city. And you got to protect the streets, you got to protect the schools. And things like that, they have to be able to get to school. Without policemen and patrolmen and people out here taking care of the bare essentials, we're in trouble. And all this stuff. Recreation is a good thing. But to spend this kind of money, we don't even know how much money we spend in recreation. They've got an outside person goes out there to... have the band set up where they get a band. And the person doing the recreation should be able to have people on that they can, you know, get prizes. Save all the money you can. I'm not fussing at you because I know you're in.

No, no, no. I'm not taking it that way. But for council's consideration, that issue has been addressed for the upcoming budget year. Okay.

After July 1. Yeah, we're talking about, yes. And that's what we're talking about adopting, I guess, or this is not going to be adopted. It's just presented to the council and to the public, right? Is this a public hearing or not?

No, the public hearing will occur until the June regular meeting.

It's got to be taken care of. I didn't come in here today to try to run over anyone, but I'm damn sure I want you to understand one thing and all of it. 250 celebration has to be a celebration for the whole community, not for me, but for this whole community. And these folks out here in LCC, they want to have something to be proud of. They work their butts off, all of them. They keep the town clean to do the shrubbing and things like that. And we thank them for it. We thank all the citizens that take care of the property. But we should be fining these people that don't take care of the property like we used to. You know, it used to be a $100 fine. In town, we'd go in there and cut the grass, and we'd put a lien against their property. And then after so long a time, if they don't pay it and they don't maintain their property, you have to go to the courthouse and file a lien against their property to, you know, where the city will get their money. Essentially, someday they'll get their money.

Mayor.

Yes.

Can we get back on track on the city manager to proceed with the budget?

Yes, sir. I'm talking about the budget. No, what I'm talking about is money that needs to go into the budget to take care of the things that need to be done. And y'all are, you know, y'all are having your meetings to do this, and I agree with you. This should be a meeting for that. But I'm bringing up what needs to be spent But the LCC, if the council is going to approve to do anything for the Fourth of July and for the 250 celebration, money has to be in there. And I recommend that the city put $30,000 in. I know they're not going to need that much money. But the money will be there for them to do other things during the year. It's going to pay double, triple, 100 times over to improve the appearance of the city and make things where the property values continue to go up. And this is part of budget. If we don't put that money in there, and they don't do it, then how can you, if a five-neighbor's property looks good, one neighbor is just destroying the whole neighborhood, and you've got the rules and laws already on the books to take care of these things. And we need to have money in the budget where we can follow the law and get these people up to code with their properties, business, residential, whatever. But I recommend that we put the money into the, well, the LCC will be the one that makes the decision if we put the money in there. It's up to them to do whatever has to go in the future as far as this mural or anything that they want to do will be up to them. The council has to put the money in there for them to be able to do anything. Without any money, you can't do nothing. And I think we can move it out of the, what's it called, the skip money.

there. We have a fund there. Yes, sir.

Look at this, you know, just just move $30,000 total, you said 12, five, just increase it by 17, five and make it $30,000. Just make it you hadn't even adopted the budget. So it could be put in the council would agree to it, you wouldn't have to make a budget amendment, you can just go ahead and do it. But it's up to the council. And not not not to this, you know, the labor that you know, this is this is something I don't know how many, how many people got to see this draw one of the mural is the citizens got y'all have y'all seen this?

We have an agenda item set aside just for this conversation. This first part is for the budget.

The money has to be in the budget.

That is the second agenda item.

Well, let me make a comment. This budget, as I've belabored the point, it's a bare-bones budget because it's an interim prepared budget. It's my understanding that the council is well on its way to selecting a permanent full-time manager. A permanent full-time manager should work hand in glove with the city council along with the citizens and the boards that make up this organization called the City of Lowell. You mentioned budget amendments. Budgeting amendments are allowed. Every city does them nearly on a monthly basis because something pops up that's not in the budget. So when I say it's a bare bones budget, it's fair, again, to everyone, but it's also fair to the incoming manager. whoever he or she may be, that they can sit down with y'all, sit down with staff, prepare any amendments that need to be done. Now, I agree with you, Mayor, on the point, time is of the essence. July the 5th is kind of going to be a dead issue if you're looking at, well, July the 5th is going to be a day late and dollar short. So, recognizing that, there's already 12,000 $500 set aside. And what I hear from and have seen of the LCC and looking at past emails from the performer manager, thank y'all for what y'all do for the city. There's monies available, but there's also, as you say, there's also other monies. But you'll have to look at cost all the way around and how it affects the citizens and the taxpayer.

But I agree with you, man. You're 100% right. This, we have to do something on this year's tour. I'm talking about we need to have something for the whole day of July, we need to have Well, I think the LCC and the city staff should be charged with that $12,500. will touch what needs to be done if they do the mural and they do what needs to be done on the 4th of July and having the celebration that it requires.

And if it doesn't, there's ways around that.

Yeah, by the time you have another meeting, do a budget amendment and all this kind of stuff, and then you're probably, you're beating a dead horse. We need to put it in the budget before we adopt the budget. Listen, all the money's in the budget, all of it. uh general fund money skip money everything still you know still it can be used anytime moved anytime but they want to but why not do it now rather than have to make a budget a budget amendment whenever you can just make it a a little strike of the pen to take 30 anyway 12 500 to 30 thousand seventeen thousand five hundred dollar increase into the lcc and then if they don't need it well and good they can you know turn it back in or whatever they want to do but at least have things ready and prepared for whatever made what it might entail to get something i understand all this stuff should have already been in the works like we've been talking about and i agree with you on that mayor what what you're discussing here this should have been planned back in january absolutely not today absolutely absolutely and

You're the one that's bringing it up. So you should have brought it up in January.

I've been talking about the 250 year celebration since January.

But you hadn't mentioned this.

No, this is new, yes. That's what I'm saying. This is my idea.

We'll discuss this when it comes to that on the agenda. Let's move forward with the actual budget, please, sir.

to move forward with the budget.

By the same token, I understand what you're doing as far as the money that you're proposing to put in the budget for everything. If you did the things like Apologies are needed. I don't even want to be here. I don't feel like being here. I feel like it's necessary to be here today because 4th of July has come up. 250 year celebration is very appropriate. All right, so go ahead. I'm sorry, man.

No, you don't need to. No apologies are required. That's pretty much the notes I have for the budget. It's a conservative budget. There are monies available, as the mayor said, that's set aside in fund balance. But you don't want to go into fund balance. And we've budgeted very conservative in the revenues that's coming in. And we've based our expenditures on past spending habits, the up until March expenditures of the current budget that we're under. And then consulting a crystal ball.

So guesswork, I appreciate what you're saying. And you're speaking just like a professional city manager would. Because money's has money has to be there. Yeah, that's the money. But listen, we've got all this growth coming all these houses and things like that we're going to be able to fall back on. All we're talking about is getting by, you know, one more tax year, you know, this year, appraisal the next year, you got the reevaluation and you got all these houses coming in. We're nowhere near dire needs or anywhere near broke or anything. Don't say that.

Well, your water and sewer fund is.

Yeah, water and sewer fund. I'm glad you brought that up because your public works director out there cost us a hell of a lot of money. When we got water lines.

Well, we don't need to be talking about personnel.

I'm not talking about personnel. I'm talking about the public works director position. The position. I'm not mentioning their name. And whenever you've got water leaks that leak four or five days on the boulevard, that's a lot of money. Yes, we're losing a lot of money. Four million gallons of water a month is what we're losing as far as being billed out. We can't account for it because, you know, it's lines that are leaking and not being taken care of. Negligence that we've all known about for the past two and a half years. This is nothing new to any of us. And we need to make sure that we're doing the best job. We're doing all facets of government, all of our positions, police, everything. Fire and the community. We give all the fire. Hell, we pay the county 11 and a half cent fire tax. And they fund the fire department. And if they got rid of the sewer plant and got rid of all these things, what would you be governing? Nothing. Not now. We still have to have the money to govern. exactly i agree with you 100 but we're nowhere near broke we got plenty of fund balance as far as it's appropriate for skip but you can change anything and anytime the council so chooses to move anything they can so don't come up thinking we're broken yeah we're dipping into a little bit of fun i'm not saying we're broken but you've got to be conscious of

Ben, Mr. Blackburn, I want to thank you for coming, being interim. And we're not wanting to beat up on you because it was unanimous vote. Did you come here? Thank you. And we thank you for being here. And the Mayor Pro Tem called you, and you agreed. So we thank you for just taking time out of your busy schedule to come here. be our city manager and hopefully by the end of uh june or somewhere there about we'll have a full time as you said earlier city manager so thank you and while i'm speaking mr mayor i want to say that there are a lot of people that love the recycling bin and got a lot of calls about it so i don't know if we'll be able to get it but i i want people to know that i'm definitely in support of the recycling bin and hopefully you know we can grow our police force down the road.

I wish you'd been that concerned with last budget when you set up your own budget meeting thing like that. I wish you'd been concerned and we would be going through the dire straits that we're going through with some of these problems that we have now. All these parks and stuff that you rent, Waste of money, taxpayer money on different things. Yes, I agree with you. Yes, I'm glad Ben's here too. Ben's not doing anything wrong at all. He's giving us the bare bones facts about everything, and I appreciate that. But here's what I appreciate. Here's what I appreciate. The people of Loyola that have nothing. They have nothing, no opportunity. And yes, a 5% increase doesn't seem like much, but hell, gas prices are going through the roof. You know, everything takes a toll on people. And that's recycling men every time. If you want to recycle them, put your men down at your house and let people come in and you manage it. But citizens of Loyal County, no other town I know of even has a recycle bin. Mount Holly got rid of theirs, did it not? It's a waste of money. And also, look at your ballpark. You're living in a mud hole. You're living back in the Stone Age. Move the city forward. Pave some places. Look, you've got a mud hole out there beside the Boys and Girls Club, the new Loyal Recreation Center. But all this hindsight bullshit, you can't keep up with it. You got the government from now on to the future, just like I told you in the minute, whenever I asked about whether we're going to hire a city manager, some wanted to move the city forward, not for themselves, but for the people of Lowell. And thank you for your comments. Anything else?

Mr. Blackburn.

Yes, sir.

I know there was some discussion, it may have been before you come in, as far as the stormwater person. Was that position, I know there was a position there, the money was there for us to hire somebody to assist Jennifer with the stormwater. Was that?

That's not included. That wasn't included? No, sir. Okay.

Glad you brought that up. There's a person saving us a hell of a lot of money. She's doing the zoning and also zoning enforcement and the water runoff fee for a nominal fee of $65,000 a year, which is ridiculous. Pay the finance office a ridiculous amount of money. We pay the HR people and all those people an enormous amount of money. Pay the public works guy over $100,000 a year now with benefits and everything. You got one person out there doing three jobs for nothing. We need to honor these people by paying them a decent wage for the people that's carrying them on their backs to take care of this place. That's what I'm not. I'm not supposed to be on your active city management. It's not for you to have to make personnel decisions and all that stuff. That's not what we ask you to do. Just come in here and you're doing everything that we've asked you to do. And then I appreciate you more than you'll ever know. And I think I've told you many times and I appreciate it. And I appreciate the council for straightening me out and bringing you here. because they were right. And it's not easy to say if someone else is right and you're wrong. I was wrong and they're right. And I appreciate them. But to move forward, I want to tell you the smartest cat in this room right now and is learning more than anyone is Travis Smith. I'm so proud of Travis I could flip out. Because Travis has taken the time to study. And the old administrators and stuff like that, the city manager would come in and tell them what to do and they'd do it. But now every one of those councils, they look at things and they study. And that's what we need to do about this budget is really study it. And listen, you don't have to pass the budget on June the 30th. You can go to an interim budget if you want to, but that's up to the council. And there's no reason for an interim budget, don't get me wrong. But, you know, if you really have concerns and how you really want to get things to the correct amount, an interim budget, the only thing you can spend is the necessities. The rest of it you can't spend.

Mayor, those options are available, but it's my understanding that the council has had several budget meetings.

There's no reason to have an interim budget. I'm not saying we need to have an interim budget. I'm just saying there's an option there if we needed it. That's all I'm saying. But you're right. There's no reason for us to have an interim budget. That's just an option if you need it. Sure. And thank you again for everything you do. Thank you. Thank you for your kind words. Thank you, Mr. Schiff.

Ben, like you said, we've been through several budgets. And again, before I even say that, thank you for everything you've done. You have done more than being an interim manager. You did not have to come in here, help with this budget, do all the things you've done. That was not your job, but you did it. And thank you for getting us this far. As far as the budget, I think yours is number eight. We just haven't come to an agreement. I would love to see a raise for the police department. The money's not there. It came up, Shane brought up a raise for public works. I would like to see that. I would like to see raises. Sure. The money's not there. That's just the bottom line. After going, I've got several phone calls about the recycling bin. And I know it's not your job, and maybe we can come back to it, to maybe even just opening the recycling bin one day a week. Maybe that would save on some costs. Because I think we're at $28,000 for where we're at now. And I believe we're open three days a week.

Yes, sir.

We could cut that down to one. Maybe that would save some money there. There's a lot of wants, but again, the money's not there. And I know the houses are coming. The money's going to come in the future. It's just not here now. I'd love, you know, I hate to say it, but I feel like we need to raise taxes. We're running on... half a cent more than a city that's populated by 1,000 people, and we're populated by 4,000 people trying to run on their same budget. So to me, that's where the flaw is at, and I think we need a tax increase. And unfortunately, we haven't agreed upon it, and I don't think we're going to.

and that's where I'm at it's unfortunate it's that way but again in the future yes we will have a lot more money coming in with these housing developments we just don't have it now we've looked at where we stand through March thirtieth those are the cleanest numbers that we had to look at our finance director and I and working with staff The buildings, the houses, the other construction, it's in either the developmental stage or they're doing the grading work. Talking with some of the project managers as well as our public works director and others, we should see an uptick in the construction after January 1. So that's why this is a bare bones budget. And so after January 1, we should start seeing an increase in the revenues from the new houses coming on. I just hate to sit there and put a budget together on what ifs. Because if anybody, most people in this room will remember 2008 and the housing burst. There's subdivisions that are now just being built out because of the housing boom in the last five, six years. But they sat dormant. from 2008 for a number of years because no one was building houses during that time with the mortgage crisis and all. Those perils loom over every municipality across this great country of ours. But again, the council makes the final decision based on the budget. Staff will make it work in whatever manner. But also you just have to look at the other factors that play into a budget. And it's kind of a guesswork and looking at past history. But Mr. Mayor, let me make a comment, and this is not to be critical of you or your comments, but Lowell is privileged to have good staff working for it. I'm old school to the part that I can't see how salaries have increased. I've told a number of people I got into the labor market 30 years too soon. But it is what it is and to keep good workers in your municipalities or any place of business, you've got to pay them. You've got to give them benefits. And it's been my experience just in the last month, six weeks working here, a month, we've got Lowell's blessed with the best employees. They're dedicated, they work hard, and I just want to stand up for them. They're worth every dime they're getting paid.

And I stand up for them as well. Here's the thing about it. We've got 30 total employees. What's the total budget for those employees? And I'll tell you, the people are suffering. The people out here working in the public works making less than $20 an hour. They used to be making $22 an hour. You can't even pay your tax. You can't get a car, pay your rent, things like that. And see, here's the thing about it. A 5% raise helps the people of the upper echelon make the big money, yes. The people on the bottom, they don't get much. Any time you give a raise, add all of it together and divide it equally by the value of the employees, Don't go by percentage per employee, but the total amount of money, divide that by 30 and give everyone an equal raise, and then you're being fair. It doesn't keep expanding, expanding longer and wider. And you should be paid for your education. You should be paid for what you do. But these folks out here that haul this trash out here in the snow and ice and everything, you cannot pay them enough. They're the most important people in the world to sit here and pay them less than $22, $24 an hour because you cannot live on it. Non-tenured school teachers, in the same respect, $45,000 a year to have to feed their family. If they have a family, they cannot make it. And that's what's wrong. As you get tenured and as you get more money and you get more time on the job, it's like you said, you told the truth. You started too young as far as to get the day plus. You see now, I said to your manager now, and like you asked Tony, hey, you should probably make it three or four hundred thousand a year. We paid the dumb, the craziest county manager, what, I want to say, what, five hundred and some thousand dollars a year? And then you got four assistants making over two hundred. You know, things have to be in perspective. I agree with you. I agree with you 100%. You get paid for what you know and what you do, not for what you think you know.

And I don't want to make it sound like that staff is not concerned about our...

some of our lowest wages employees are the most valuable yeah absolutely and you're correct these young police officers put their lives on the line for nothing and people don't understand what nothing means but you do the math that makes sixty thousand dollars a year they take out twenty thousand dollars tax at least for it you still got to live you got to you have to maintain a family and that's what makes it why i don't understand What you say, you understand. But here's what, here's the supply and demand for the whole country. That's what the country used to be based on. Not fictitious bullshit, but, you know, supply and demand. If you sold 50 million cars, we need steel for those 50 million cars. if you're not selling cars you don't need that much deal and that's when you know that's how things get out of kilter but i'm not running the whole country and i'm not running lower i'm just a member of this board that respects all of them and i do you have to understand this i respect you but i i want you to understand this money is the most important thing that goes through your hands just to provide for your family that's all reason if you had all the money in the world if one person had all the money in the world Who could they tell to do anything? Money would be no good to anyone. But see, money is nothing but a tool. And how you use that tool and how you provide for people, you'll be remembered. Or how you rip people off, you'll be remembered for that as well. So let's do it the right way. If you're going to give a 5% raise, total it up from all the employees. Whatever it is. How much is the total budget for the employees right now? And just give me the total of the essential amount of money times 5%. That's how much the raise is for all of them. And then once you do that, divide that 30 employees into that amount of money, give all of them the same amount of raise. Well, at any level, any better. I understand that. And that's a democracy. People look out for their fellow man. It's like good stewards in the church.

Just being a good human being.

And I don't want to run for Congress. I don't want to run for Senate. I want my eyes fixed, and I want to be able to breathe, and I want to be able to talk with all the people in law and be able to walk up to them and shake their hands like we did the best job we could possibly do for you. Yes, sir. And I appreciate every committee we have. I just wish we could form another recreation committee to help because that would take a load off of our recreation people. And we pay as much or more than anyone for recreation. And then we're going to have two of them. There's one assistant, right? One full-time, one assistant. And if we get rid of the recycling bin, stuff like that. I would like to see our ballpark and stuff like that brought up to where we got a million dollar grant. We spent $300,000 for admin fees that we had to put the first swing in. I mean, you know, it's got to be a day of awakening for all of us. I mean, I don't mean to make fun of us, but I'm just telling you, you know, all we're piling that bunch, those days are gone. This is 2026. And we need all the help and guidance, and I appreciate you 100%. Just like Travis said. I appreciate that. Thank you. You're doing far beyond what you should do, but you're here, so you have to take the patent with you. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, come with me. Yes, sir. And I thank the world over there. I want a good budget where the employers are treated fairly, number one, because without them, what the hell are we doing? Who's going to take out your trash? Who's going to haul your trash out of that barn? Who's going to take care of this equipment? Maintenance is a key to everything. Look at this junkyard we got piled over here, Carl. You see that junkyard behind your police department? That's a salvage yard. That's an illegal salvage yard. Write you a ticket when you leave here for illegal salvage. It needs to be cleaned up. And that's what needs to be done. Clean this place up.

Well, I don't need a citation from the city manager for operating an illegal salvage yard. That's what it is.

Ben, the streets and sanitation go into public works. Like on the streets, sorry, sanitation, we're going down 80,000 from last year. I mean, like it shows the salaries and wages are lower. Not so much on streets, but a good bit on sanitation. I mean, what... I mean, I see the explanations beside it, but. One of them is the recycling. Yeah, the $28,000. And then?

Because the recycling center employees was in that sanitation salaries as well.

So that's added in that, too. The landfill disposal, I'm assuming that's because that's going down because the recycling men, some.

The recycling center, no, the tipping fees are just going down some from last year because I based it upon what we spent through March and just kind of random numbers and add a little bit because they are going up on their rates. But I really think the previous budget was overstated.

Here's the thing about it though, finance officer. You get your balance, you get your money every month and you know how much is in there. Every month you get your statements like I do. You check off the checks, it's not been cashed, it's not been deposited. You know how to do what you're doing. But here's just another thing about it. We need to get all the money we can for the money we have in the bank. We need to shop every way we can to get more interest. And listen, there's things out there that's available today that wasn't available a year ago, two years ago, five years ago. But now it's up to the finance officer position and the person in that position to obtain all the money they can, to save all the money they can. I mean, it's just a never-ending saga of how much money, just like the old days, back when I was married back in the 1800s, I don't know, it was 2001. Or 1997 was the first time I got laid down. 91, I'm sorry, 91. Based on how they got to raise us was how much money each department saved. In other words, it's still the same common sense. Gold. How much fuel do you really need? And if you say, listen, we provide police cars. I don't know how many miles they drive. You got a total of how many miles you provide police cars to be traveled just to get to work. And you add all that stuff together, and you're talking about $4, $5 a gallon. and we should be buying it in bulk. Do we have any way of getting it in bulk as far as fuel for our town?

We should be getting a discount because of the fuel cards. from what you see listed on the pump.

Here's the thing about it. If you join Sam's Club, they give you a discount or something. I mean, I don't know what the hell. The minute we get a Sam's Club car, we can save $10,000 a year if you don't have a Sam's Club car, too. Would that make sense? Anything that you can do to save money and also to show your employees how much you care about them, the ones out here doing all this heavy, hard work in the weather and stuff like that, they need to be provided for. Our police officers need to be well well paid as far as for what they do, and I think the upper echelon are. But as you get down in the patrolman area, and it's like you get down into the public works people that are out here digging the holes and cleaning everything up, that's just as important as a guy that's got a Harvard degree in my book. I think that those people right there with a Harvard degree, hell, they're not going to get out here and shovel the manure. They're going to get out here. They want other people shoveling for them. But we need to take care of these shelters out here and these people that really need a job and really appreciate it. And we appreciate all of them. Give them a decent pay. $22 an hour for a person out there is $880 a week. Take away their taxes, that don't leave much. And the benefits are good. The best thing about Lowell or any municipality is the benefits. You know the benefits program was created. Yes sir. If it wasn't for that, you wouldn't be working full time like no other area. I'm 71, but I love to work. But I want to see this be the icon of the whole county. Listen, we don't have to be the acid county. We can be number one. That's what I've always strived for. is to be the leader, not the follower. And to see those idiots up there running the county commissioners, county commissioners, I call them idiots because they mislead all of us. Look at them, paying for assistance, city and county managers, that kind of money with benefits, and look at them, and they keep increasing the number of people on payroll. All they want to do is protect their job by hiring people that's going to elect them. Here's what you do. You fire the ones that don't work, you bill them. Because people appreciate that because it gets the bottom line cut down. I'll be quiet. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm just aggravated with not having nothing for us. Go ahead, Mr. Chitwood. I know you're anxious.

Well, I was just going to say, I know I'm late to the party, but you're going around in circles. I appreciate your comments and your concerns, but can we move on, please?

Yeah, I appreciate you, too, son. I hope you'll take your hat off when you're in a meeting with respect to the community. But anyway, go ahead. Anything else? Well, that's that's all I have and to present. Again, I think

It's something that everybody can work with, including the council can go down the street and shake everyone's hands and be proud of a budget. But it also gives you that leeway when you get your full-time manager in here to work with y'all and work with you that represent committees and the citizens here in this town to move forward. And I'm with you, Mayor. Lowell should be the leader, and it can be the leader. In a lot of respects, it is the leader. Look at the growth that you've had in the past five, ten years, and look at the staff that you have, and look at the makeup of your community. Mayor, you're right on point.

The biggest thing about it though, Ben, if you, listen, anytime you have, if you're gonna have growth, you have pre-growth. You have to have infrastructure inside the city. You can't go ass-backwards and say it's okay. That's exactly where we are right now. Our schools, our police department, all the infrastructure, you're bringing in 25, 30% of what the population was, And you still have, and listen, you have to have, our garbage truck state, that state's broke down all the time. We have to borrow a round load of garbage truck, even though we have three. Going back to the public works director that is supposed to be taking care of these things, still going through tires and kill someone in a 3500 series truck. Things like that should be right, the policeman should be writing them tickets as well as should be writing me one. If I'm gonna hurt someone, the public needs to be protected. And that's the whole thing about it.

I think that was in the past, and that has been taken care of.

Well, I'm just telling you where you're going. It's not happening right now. Where you've been and where you want to go. Now, up to Upper Echelon, you forget what's going on. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. What's in the past is in the past. But as you provide this money, it also comes with a cost. All these houses bring extra costs. Absolutely. And can you imagine living in Lauren Woods over there, in a beautiful neighborhood, and having to put up with a garbage truck running up and down the highway. It's going to be a, and we want to put the public works building over there. We have the property, and we don't have enough sense to use it. We could move all this old junk equipment over here, the ways over here, and paint this old building, fix up the shrubbery, fix the fence, down here beside the pastor's church, and all that mess out there in that field out there where they do all these signs and things like that. Listen, there will be ordinance to make them put a fence up and clean it up, even elected officials all of us yeah we have to we're all in the same guidelines and you can't make it better and you can't provide you don't go by the ordinances you're in violation too let's get busy waiting on you i'm happy i can't see what i'm happy go ahead happy happy to get this off my chest I want to move the law forward. Listen, every time you have a budget meeting, every time you have a budget meeting, it's essential. That's for the whole year. But listen, that's for the next 100 years as well. Absolutely. No one thinks ahead. They think about today.

Do you guys have anything else that you want to discuss budget-wise? No. Are you all ready to move on to the Bureau?

We can move on.

I've been ready. I appreciate y'all taking the time.

Can we get a consensus that this is going forward for consideration at the public hearing?

It is going forward for consideration?

Yes, sir.

It's not a done deal. Of course, the public hearing and all that stuff. But this is a good guideline. Yes, sir. I think the council, all the whole board, they're going to have the input, I hope. And that's what it's all about. And the citizens as well. Well, the citizens... it says it since it's been posted for over a week now but uh you can't remember here june of what eight nine nine nine make sure that gets out in the bulletin and everything out there on facebook and all that stuff but people know i wish the whole meeting would fill up the whole city just to come in here and sit down and have an open forum where people can discuss everything that's on their mind if it takes all night three different meetings or whatever to give people an opportunity to speak and not not shut them up You're out of order. You've got five minutes. You go up there. It takes you about an hour to get your nerve up before you can come up here and discuss the five minutes. But I love to see people come in and have their opinions.

That's the beauty of America, that we provide a means for redress of grievances. That's part of our Constitution.

I agree.

But one thing I've always been proud of elected officials is that they opened themselves up to the citizenry. Y'all are the sounding board and it's 30 days, it's every day of the year. So I applaud people that are willing to throw their hat in the ring and serve their communities because it's not just at a council meeting that you can go talk to a council member.

But one thing I'd like you to reiterate to the department heads.

Yes, sir.

Listen, there's no excuse for a tire laying on the side of an ambulance for four weeks. There's no excuse for it jumping in and ditches and things like that. The people that complain to all of us and they say, why is that still out there? Well, you know, the way our government's set up, we cannot go to them and tell them to get off your butt and do something. Then you go to an active city manager, regular city manager, whatever, and you discuss it with them. And I know you don't want to get into the personnel part of it, but this whole town needs to be cleaned up, back roads, side roads, and clean it up. But anyway, that's cheap. That's not going to cost much money because they're all ready to pay them. They're traveling up and down the road in trucks for them sometimes in a truck. Let them stop it and get some of this trash up while they're riding.

I agree 100% with that. We don't need silos in our departments. Everybody works for your checks as the city of Loyola. That's it.

No one's going to throw up on anyone, but for God in heaven's sake, clean the place up. Yes. And have pride in your own property. Yes.

So if that concludes our budget, this will be presented for public review. It's already out there, but for public comments at the June 9th regular meeting at 7 o'clock p.m.

Six.

You are getting old, Ben.

I mean, when we started, I mean, at 7 o'clock, we didn't get out until midnight. Go ahead.

I thought it was going to be like that today.

This is entertainment. You did a good job entertaining them, too, so I appreciate it.

I enjoy the back and forth. I enjoy working for this council, and this council is...

I wish I'd have had you 20 years ago. I'd have made something out of you. You've done good everywhere you've been. I'm picking on you. When you retired, I called you personally and said congratulations. You did.

But before then, the phone calls weren't that pleasant.

We don't talk about that.

I don't want to break that up, do we? No. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Lowell's a special place to me. We've all learned from each other. But thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you. Thank everybody.

Thank you for everything you've done, Ben. Like I said, you've been a blessing this past month. Without you, we would have been in trouble.

You've got to look at these department heads and staff. I mean, it's not just department heads. I'll go back to what the mayor said. It's everybody, and I feel good that our employees feel free enough that they can talk not only to their department heads, but to the city manager and to the council members. And a lot of town's employees don't have that benefit or they feel locked out. It's kind of like what you said, Mayor. It takes an hour to get your nerve up to go here and talk.

I'm not knocking our department heads at all. They know I appreciate it. I'm just saying you went above and beyond what you were hired to do.

And I appreciate those very kind words, but y'all are fortunate to have good people and good citizens. I mean, they can roll up their sleeves, too.

99.5% tax every year we collect. We don't have to go out and take people's property. Be proud of what we got. Yes, sir. I agree with you on that.

Thank you, Ben, for what you've done. And thank Mayor Scott Bates for calling you that day. And you came and the council voted unanimously that you should come. Thank you for your service.

Thank you, Reverend. You don't have a little cloth on his eyes. I need it. I need it. But thank you.

Dwayne, Travis, Reverend, Mayor, Chief, thank y'all.

Thank you, Ben. Benny and the Jets, ladies and gentlemen. We're just a downed cowboy down here.

If I heard that from junior high up to this day, I've heard it a million times.

But listen, people don't appreciate the fun we have. They think this is all blood and guts. No, it's a lot of comedy. It is. And I appreciate everyone. And listen, I appreciate all of our committees and the leaders that take the time that they don't have to do this one. And I tell you what, those are the people that need a big hand and applause. I tell you, thank all of you. I mean, from the bottom of my heart. Without y'all, we ain't got nothing. Yes, sir.

Well, that concludes the budget discussion. We amended the budget to add, Mr. Chitwood, to include the consideration of the proposed mural. And I'm not sure if you've got a cut.

I use drafts.

Yes, sir.

Just a little background, or Mayor, do you want to talk about it?

I might ask you a question about this, just since we're going into this mural discussion and all other things about the LCC and things like that. Since we have an LCC committee, the committee that we have, and the money's already there for whatever they choose to do with the money, if they choose to do the mural or whatever. The council really doesn't really have a dog in the fire as far as that goes. As far as that, if we're going to increase the budget or increase their money, yes. Because they're able to do what they need to do to get us by to get through 4th of July and then they can come back before the council if they need more money and ask for something at a different time. But the money is already there to do the mural or whatever they want, whatever they choose to do, not whatever we choose for them to do. But we turn it over, we give them the money And what do they do with the money? That would be their business, is that not correct? The council wouldn't have a vote on that, would they?

Well, the LCC, your committee's, the LCC, as I understand its makeup, is similar to your planning board. They make non-binding recommendations to the board.

We don't give them an amount of money to take care of their business. The LCC has a budget for $12,500, what you stated earlier. So with that being said, they have the money, and it's up to them. All the things the council has to, I don't know if we'd have to prove anything. The fact that they, if they wanted, if the LCC chose to do this mural, whatever you choose to do on the 4th of July, or for the 250th celebration, would be up to them. And out of respect to them, I don't think we really have anything at all in the fight, other than the fact that this is beautiful.

Well, I personally would think that it should come to the council if you're talking about putting something on a public building.

That's a good point. I agree. I agree. That's a good point. I understand as far as the money goes.

I agree with city manager. It's just like the planning board. They make the recommendations. It comes to us.

you know, facade grants, they always come to us if somebody wanted business comes up, say they want so much money for the facade grant, they bring it to the they take it to the LCC, LCC, then bring forwards it on to us, we make the decision whether they business gets that money or not. So what is this for me? I think Well, go ahead.

I'll hold my reservations till the end. 100% right. As far as you know, putting it on the bill over here. Yes, we'd have to cancel have to agree that they wanted everyone to be done the castle have your permission to do it and I stand corrected on that 100%. as far as the money goes, whatever the LCC has. Yeah, I was saying Yeah, I agree with you there.

There's anything you give these boards or committees certainly ways just like we do the other departments.

So what you're saying is you wanted that money to come out of the LCC? Yes or not?

Not because the money is already there. Right?

And I get that part. But I Yes. I'm right in the middle of talking.

Okay, I'm sorry. Let him finish and I'll let you stop, Mr. Knox. I appreciate it. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

So what I was getting at was the LCC didn't recommend this and bring it to us. It's coming from something that you thought of, right?

You would like to have done.

And I'll go ahead and tell you right now. I think this is beautiful. It is a good picture. I like the picture. But there again, you like to have things above board, right?

Yes, sir.

Okay. I'm only seeing one quote. Sorry.

I only see one quote. I understand what you're saying, but I understand what Scott just said. Once the money goes to LCC, what they do with it is their business. Providing them to be legal for them to put anything on the back of the police department, like Scott said a while ago, that's our business. as far as we can go, as far as the vote, as far as the mural goes, is if given the LCC permission, if they chose to put that up.

I think what Mr. G was saying is we can't just take one quote from one business and say that's what we want to do because we don't do that with other projects. Just like the Park lot down here beside the recreation club, we've got three bids. We've got bids at the chemical plant. Anything that we do, we get bids on. We need bids on this. We've only got one in front of us. Even if we gave LCC the money to put in our budget to spend, and they would accept to go this route with a mural, they wouldn't. Be careful of what I'm saying.

Yeah, because what you're saying is contradictory to what you're saying. Because the money that you give the LCC. If you give them the money, they still have to pay the bills. We don't have to give the bills. They do. That's why I just said this. Yeah, you're not up here. I stand corrected again.

And you bring it to us.

Yes, good. So we don't have to pay the bills. We're not involved in it.

It don't matter how much money you've done to pay the issues. Some kind of payment. We didn't get involved in that either. Y'all went and got three quotes, right? At least two. Okay, there again, and that was something that they chose to do. You're choosing, you're telling them, you're basically saying they're going to do it. It's going to come out of their mouth.

Absolutely not.

You're saying put the money in there and let them do it.

Let them make their own decision, not me.

But they still have to bring bids back before us. No, they do not. Yes, they do. They did not bring bids back for the painting on this building.

Yes, they did. They did. They did too. Even though we gave them the money for them to go ahead and do it. They still brought the points back to us.

Why would we waste the time to take the bids and let them do it? And somebody else. Why would we do that? I don't understand it.

yes I understand why would we have to put y'all through that when you can make y'all make that's the decision that's the that's the way it's going done I mean I don't I just think and you're running out of time for 250 years I don't think you're gonna make it well here's the thing why didn't you start this in January I did we've been talking about this all year friend I have not heard anything in January that's not true every month we talk about the 250 I told it that was back in you hadn't been talking about the

I ain't talking about a mirror.

The celebration monthly, like last month, every month for prior prior prior.

And here's my thought. And I'll shut up after this. We're planning on either Building a city hall slash police apartment or maybe pursuing some other avenues, I don't personally see spending roughly $8,000 to put this on the back of the building that we're possibly gonna turn around and sell within five years.

Okay, that's good. That's just my opinion. That's where I'm standing. That's a very intelligent statement. Whoever bought that building would probably be proud to own that building with that beautiful mural on the back of it because they would say that. And they may leave it on there.

But we're spending $8,000 for something that may be pressure washed off. $8,000 of citizens tax money. But we should have started this in the mural itself.

You should have started in January. That's just my opinion. Now. Now. We don't have to get three bids if you want to spend $7,800 out of your pocket or you can go get donations by the time. If you want to do that, I can make a motion that we can, if it passes, that you can put it on the building. Because that's not coming out of taxpayers' money. Just like that mural over there. It was done by somebody. I don't know. And I'm not trying to find out. It was not done by taxpayer dollars. It was done by a citizen. And so that's why it didn't get voted on.

That's the most embarrassing looking thing I've ever seen in my life. And that's not what we're here to talk about. You want me to spend my hard-earned money for something that I'm just... You come up with the idea.

That's what I'm saying.

I'm not saying you have to. That's how naive the whole situation is. This is a 250 year celebration. What I do with my money, who I donate money to, which you know, I don't want to do the money. That's not my concern. Well, it must be. You know, I take care of a lot of people here, including my things around you and everyone else. I stick my neck out for all my own without no guidance. And I'm not here arguing. I love to help people. I don't care who you are. I don't care if you broke your rich or whatever you kind of mean you have a problem. I got time for you. I don't want you to jump off the bridge like that little girl that breaks my heart on Cox Road. You changed the subject. I'm just giving you an answer to your statement. You donate money. Let's all donate money. I'll pay my part. I'll do anything I can for the city. That doesn't interest me what you're saying about that. What interests me is this town's 250 years old. We have a great committee that does what they do for free. And they love this town as they wouldn't do it. And believe you me, I'm sure that this committee has met with, I don't know what they've done. I don't attend their meetings. But this is a great thing. And I hate to say this, waste people's time. And this is a copyrighted deal. It's not that you can take bids on it. I don't know if it's copyrighted or not.

It is copyrighted, absolutely. And that's great, if it is.

But you can't go out and take bids on someone else's work. It's going to end up being two other different copyrights. How much money would it cost you to get someone to even draw this? I mean, to even come up with this? It would cost you thousands of dollars. But, Ben, you know the truth and not much of the truth. It's been, I don't know what it would cost. I have no idea. I don't care. But we have a volunteer that do what they're doing and loves our city, yes. And all they need is permission. from us to put it on the bill. And it's LCC says no, they don't want to do it. That's up to the LCC. That's that that leaves the council out of that part of it.

We'll see the LCC doesn't meet until June. Yes, please. Let's go ahead.

After the facade grant, if you guys approve it, we'll only have about $8,000 left in the LCC until the next fiscal year. So that wouldn't be in July. And unless you drop money in the LCC, and I don't see any need to do that, if you decided to do mural, you guys can just do that on your own.

So I don't, there's no money in the LCC. I've told you that, Larry, several times.

And I doubt in the next fiscal year that if this project were presented with our very limited budget that, well, I'd have to take it before the committee and see what they wanted to do.

i'm just saying i doubt seriously that i would get enough approval to spend that amount of money on one project from the calendar year based on all the stuff we look to do so we don't have the money and in due respect to you as well i just when i first started to talk about this budget meeting i asked for thirty thousand dollars we put in the lcc to only not only handle that but future things for the lcc And then that way, you don't have to come up here and ask me. And what you do is worth millions to the town and beauty and all the stuff that you do to enhance the city is great.

Mayor, I don't see why the FCC would even have to be involved. If this is something that the council wanted, then they could direct staff to do it.

Here's my opinion. And I'm like, Mr. Bates, I'll give it and I'll shut up. But I love it. I think it would look great. I had no thoughts at all about our future with that building until Bates just brought it up. I would suggest, if it is even possible, to put it on the building over there beside McCord Park. That would make more sense to me. We've got to get quotes. We can't just give it to one person and not get quotes. Regardless, I don't see this getting done by July 4th at all. The one in Belmont, they've done one in Belmont. I ride by it three, four times a week. They've been working on that three months. And it's smaller than, well, it might be the same size. I like the idea. I like everything about it. I'm like Bates and Chip would have already said, I wish this was presented to us in January. We could have worked with the LCC, given them some money. If not, like Bates said, if it's something we want to do, we could do it. I just think it's a little too late, and I don't see it happening regardless in the time frame that we have.

I'll ask a question, and I'm going to be done. Would we have to have, just throwing an idea out there, would we have to have three quotes to make a banner that looks like this hung up somewhere?

That's on the cost. Well, I think $30,000 per our purchasing policy is, per our purchasing policy, you don't have to get quotes or anything $30,000 and less.

And here's the thing, finding a place to make a that size banner.

Yeah.

I don't know. I'm just throwing an idea out there.

Some questions were raised about the time frame, and this is why we amended the agenda today to include this, because I spoke to the artist, Mr. Robbie Massey. And in regard to this, and I said, well, this is something the council will need to discuss at the June meeting. He said, well, I really need a response before the June meeting because he'd like to start if the council were to decide next week. So it'd be ready by the July 4th celebration. So that's why it's so time sensitive to get it. So work with his time frame. The three bids, I just want to weigh in on this. This is the artist. That's his property. I think we've used the word copyright. But this is his work of art. To come and get somebody to do three bids on an artist's work, the artist is going to say no. you're not going to do that.

I do not use his, but if you get two other companies to present, maybe it would have to be a different drawing. And it may be a drawing that council may be more interested in for a cheaper price. I don't know.

Well, if the council's looking at that direction, it's almost impossible, I would think, to get two other people to submit a proposal in this time frame for consideration.

The reason why I say a banner, sorry to interrupt, the reason why I say a banner is because it can be removed. Oh yeah. You can't remove eight thousand dollars of paint off of the side of the building if it goes the route of being sold.

It costs you another eight thousand to remove it.

And the chance of being a gambler, I'm not a gambling man, I wouldn't want to gamble. I wouldn't want to gamble selling that and the person doesn't leave it on there.

Well, the thing with the banner, if I, and I don't know if they've taken it down, but there was a cable over top of Main Street right here where they hung the Freedom Festival banner. That'd be a perfect place for a banner to advertise the 250 years.

I just, I don't know, I'm lost in words. You know, it doesn't matter. Your 250 year celebration ain't, it's not gonna happen at one time. And this is the most beautiful thing, even while we got it. I tell you, I wish the whole town could see it and realize what this means and how Rob explained it to me. after he talked with me the other day. It started out like the thread, the thread of freedom. You know what that is? That's the textile mills, the threads in these old mills and things. And he just tied this thing together. You look in the background, you see that beautiful water tank that's been destroyed, annihilated, and taken down. But still, it's still there. In this picture, our loyal water tank is there that's been destroyed. And look at the drugstore. The AI-generated picture that he told me of It looked like an old, I don't know if he showed it to you or not. He explained it to me. It was just like an old Rexall or whatever drugstore was. And he turned in this beautiful thing here. If you see the people here, holding the american flag have y'all seen this but anyway and if you just if you could just put this into monetary what it's worth I don't know what it's worth. I'm not an appraiser of life, people's lives, and people's past, present, and the future. But this is what this is. And this is something that we could all say kudos and say thank you. Listen, he didn't have to do this. No matter what, he did not have to do this. Robbie is an artist, a tremendous artist, and a great facilitator of people and life in general. And this is what he's going to look, if he did this, that's why it's so cheap. You understand? This right here would cost you, if you had to hire someone to draw this and to get all this stuff together and do the work, I'd say it would probably cost you close to 50 grand to even get an idea, to even get something done in this perspective. And have this, listen, the idea behind this is worth a million dollars to me and a billion. Because it's what it is. It entails what this city really is. And you see the church steeple, right? It's all included. There's nothing that's not there. And I listen. If the $7,800... That doesn't matter to me, you understand? But what matters to me is it not, you know, this is for the citizens of Lowell. I shouldn't have to be the grandiose person to say, well, listen, I provided the money for that, which I could, and very likely will if necessary. But not to make me look good, you understand? not make me feel like i mean better than anyone else but us as as good stewards of the taxpayers money and how much we love our city as we say we do this is forever not for a day and the children growing up they can go by and listen the people that do maybe make it 250 years and if this thing holds up and keep this thing touched up and freshened up, it'll probably last 1,000 years. But you've got to keep maintaining, just like anything has to have maintenance. If you do that, this is history. It's like our city that does not believe that we were born February the 10th, 1879. Whenever you ask me, I celebrated our birthday back in February for the city. Larry, how did you know that? Well, it's on the sign out here, first of all. But I celebrated a celebration of 100 years in 1979, when we were 100 years old. What a celebration we had. Nothing like it since. And then a few years later, when I was mayor, 13 to 15, we did something for the town, you know, and put things in perspective to where you have the history, the community center, and all that stuff. And this is history. But no one has had any effort to provide anything for 250 years celebration. Yes, I thought it is. Yes, I did. I ain't going to lie about it. I want something beautiful, something for us to be remembered by. And people on the railroad, they can look over here and see it as well. But if you think that $7,800 is going to kill me, no, it's not. And you don't think I won't spend the $7,800 to do it? Yes, I will. But I don't think it's necessary for me to have to spend $7,800 on it.

I agree with you. I like that. I agree with everybody else. But my thing is, if we're not going to keep that building, why are we going to spend $7,800? Guess what?

You own it now with that damn decal on the back that looks like cow manure.

I don't disagree with you 100%.

I'll pay the $7,800. You don't have to get loud with me. I'll pay it. Well, then pay it.

But you're not going to get loud with me. I'm just sitting here telling you how I feel about it. I agree that it looks good. Listen to me. Good. I agree that it looks good. I'm not willing to say I'm going to spend $7,800 of my taxpayers' money on something that may or may not be there in a year or two. That's a waste of money if it ain't. If somebody's going to buy that building and say, we'll keep it on there for 20 years, great. But if they buy that building and they pressure wash it off in two years, then what have we accomplished? It looks good for a year and a half, two years, but then there's the money wasted because it's gone.

You had your side.

I like the idea.

I like the idea.

Absolutely.

Anyway, we're not going to work this.

Anyway, is this real? And this time we got to build on originally when we bought the building, we didn't match ball and agreed to buy this building over here for $47,000. I got it marked paid in full because this building belongs to the Gaston County people. We're Gaston County. So they marked it paid. So we saved all that money. And now they're talking about this building. Listen, I don't care if it's got 10 murals on it. The building is still the building itself, still worth whatever it's worth. And where are we with building a new police department or anything?

I would be... very much in favor of getting a banner done this size and hanging it somewhere in the city.

We're not getting anywhere. We're not getting anywhere. So I say we move on or go with a banner and let's move on to closed session because we're not getting anywhere. I can tell you right now, apparently we're not going the three this left.

i'm not going to agree to the let's speak to you do you agree with me i'll pay for the man if you let just let this thing you got three nose right here so i said we'll pay for it that way you know taxpayers don't have to pay this work i think the i mean with the banner would be fine can we can we even get a word in edgewise larry you're doing nothing but talking and not listening to nothing anybody says well let's get ready to But you don't have nothing for 250 years of celebration. I'll pay for this because I want this public to have it, not for me. And I don't want my name on it nowhere. But I'll pay the $7,800 to do this, and I'll be glad to do it.

Can we get that in writing somewhere before I make a motion that you have permission to do that?

Listen, I'll do all the banners and everything anyway. I'll pay for what I say I'll do. Everyone knows I'll pay for what I say I'll pay for it. And I'll be more than happy to pay it. You said how much was it? Half of it, half of it? I'll give you a check money for whatever it is.

No, you pay Robbie. He doesn't have any. The city will have nothing to do with it. Well, you just said a while ago that if I paid for it. Right. If you pay for it, the city has nothing to do with it. All you need is permission from the city council.

Okay, if we're going to go to that, I will make the motion to give Robbie... the approval of painting on the back of the building.

Thank you. Have a second. Have a second. Okay.

Just just the permission. If if you're going to pay for this painting, I will make the motion to give him permission to do it on the back of that building.

Sure. Yeah.

And paid by paid by Larry Simons paid for by second the motion.

Thank you. All right. Any discussion? All in favor? Thank you. I'll get I'll take care of that. Can we move on? Yeah, I was doing this exercise. I'm going to go home and rest a minute. I was popping. Thank everyone. Thank y'all for taking care of the law. Thank y'all. Y'all have a good week.

I'll make the motion that we go into closed session. Second. For personnel. What's the number for personnel?

Thank you, Larry.

Make a motion to go into closed session for General Statute 143-318.11, consider the qualification of the composite of personnel.

Second.

All in favor? We'll just come out of closed session. No action was taken. I'll make a motion that we adjourn for the evening. Second. All in favor?