Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. So, Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Can I have your attention, please? We'll be starting up shortly. Good evening and welcome to the Lowell Planning Board for July 20th, 2026. And this matter is being broadcasted live on Channel 6 and on the Lowell LTC YouTube page as well. The first matter on the agenda this evening would be the minutes from the June 15th, 26th meeting. I've been informed that staff is still working on those meetings and we received a rough draft. So I think if the board wants to continue that to the next meeting so they have a chance to thoroughly read those minutes over, we could request a continue. So if the board is satisfied with what they've seen, what's the request of the board?

Mr. Chairman, I know they were sent to us late this afternoon, so I don't know if everybody had a chance to read them. If not, I would make a motion to continue the acceptance of those minutes until our next scheduled meeting of August 17th.

Okay, we have a motion on the floor to continue to August 17th. Do we have a second? Second. Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Chair Bochia. Those matters will be continued to August 17th, 2026. Thank you. Looking through the agenda, we do have five matters on the agenda. And we did receive a request for continuance. on two matters one being 90 bolt street and two tennis street those are both on for defender subdivision we received a request late this afternoon indicating that they just received the staff comments on friday at the same time as the board members have and they haven't had a chance to go over all the staff comments from the engineering department plan department traffic department wastewater department and all the other departments And they want to go over those more thoroughly with the engineering departments as well. And therefore, they can respond to the requests that have been put up by the planning department as well. So their request continues to a meeting date in September. So I'll take these one at a time. The first matter would be the request to continue 90 Bolt Street. It looks like we have two or three matters already on for September 10th. And at this time, we have nothing on the September 24th meeting. Excuse me? If we continue to mail, you won't be able to speak tonight, no. But we do, we put it over to the meeting to that date. Yeah, they're requesting time. They just got their comments late Friday. We just got them late Friday. So they even had a chance to concur. They did submit it in writing. Therefore, we received both of them. And usually, 90% of the time, we do continue them. If someone comes in asking for continuance, because they received the matters late. I can't hear you. I'm sorry, I can't hear you. Want a microphone so I can hear you? Yeah.

Thank you. My name is Monica Lundberg. I live at 12 Alyssa Drive. And I haven't been to a planning board meeting before, so I'm only familiar with city council school committee etiquette. So forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn. I just wanted to ask if there was anything in that memo that they are saying they need more time to respond to that was different from the comments in the memo dated March 30th before the preliminary?

Oh, absolutely.

Subdivision.

Much more in detail.

Yeah.

Okay, because...

It should be on the website if they're not on already.

Oh, no. I looked at them both, and from what I could tell from an untrained eye, they seem to be the same questions.

Yeah. So, it's the defender plan has to have different type of criteria.

oh i'm not talking about the plan itself i'm talking about the the concerns raised in the departmental memo that they received on friday that those concerns were also raised by departments before the preliminary subdivision hearing so i find it disingenuous that they would say they haven't this one they proposed that's all well this one

There's a lot more definitive of the roadways and staff. If you requested like 10 proposed conditions, which was not in this preliminary subdivision. So this one's a lot more in detail. And we had, I would say more of the other departments weighed in a little bit more. I mean, the main thing is basically for defendant subdivision is to build the road. It's not a structure, not a building, not a garage, build the road. So basically, the main concerns come from wastewater and engineering to see how the boat's going to be built. The criteria is, you know, does it have the lighting, does it have the curbing, does it have the sidewalk, and all those listed. And under our subdivision regulations, which come from Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 41, Titles, everything that has to be on the plan. And staff went down and checked to see if all those things were in quiet. So this memo is much more in detail because they had nine proposed conditions which were not on the preliminary subdivision because we don't impose conditions on the preliminary subdivision.

Okay, thank you for the clarification. You're welcome. I appreciate you taking my question.

So getting back to 90 Bold Street, what would be the question of the board? We could either put on, like I said, we have a couple of matters already on the 10th, so we have nothing on the 24th, so maybe we can put on the 24th.

Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion. And their request was to continue to reschedule 4th September. They didn't request a particular date in September. And based on our schedule, I would make a motion to continue until our September 24th scheduled meeting. So that's on Bold Street, correct? Bold Street, correct, yes. Second.

Motion made and second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Chair votes yes. The motion carries. Any opposition? I'm sorry. Any opposition? Hearing none, the motion carries. The next matter would be request to continue Tanner Street.

Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion again to continue the petition for the Tanner Street subdivision to September 24th scheduled meeting. Second.

Motion made and second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposition? Hearing none, that matter will be continued to the 24th as well. Mr. Chairman. If anybody coming down, as we say, we just received that information ourselves late this afternoon.

Mr. Chairman. Yes. Just briefly, we're going to have this petitioner sign.

Already done. We have a copy. Yeah.

No, but to go to September 24th, because we don't want anything to be approved without our approval.

Right. So they sent it over requesting a date in September.

Okay. I would feel better if they signed a form indicating that they're in agreement to go to September 24th. I think the Department of Planning and Development should reach out to them and get something signed from them just so we cover all our bases and we're not seeing something in the paper that we approve something when we never saw it.

Dylan, could you reach out to them and ask them to send it back to the 24th of September? Sure. Thank you very much. Is that satisfactory?

Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. For clarification, though, Member Tanzar, this was emailed late today. They did sign it, and it's a date in September, which is beyond our time period anyway, so they're acknowledging that. But for your clarification, especially when you've made that clear, that's fine, but this covers it. But we'll... At your request, we'll get more specific.

Okay, thank you. Okay, moving back along on the agenda, back to the beginning of the agenda. We have a tree hearing, 61 First Street Boulevard, in accordance with Mass General Laws Chapter 87.5 and Chapter 260 of Lowell Code of Ordinances. The City of Lowell has applied to the Lowell Planning Board to remove 43 public shade trees at the above address. Four trees proposed for removal have a diameter greater than 24 inches, and the remaining 39 trees have a diameter of less than 24 inches. The trees are proposed to be removed to accommodate a construction materials lay down area for phase one of the Centerville sewer separation project. May we hear from the applicant, please, for the tree hearing.

Hello, my name is Gordon Bergeron. I'm the interim engineering manager for the Lowell Regional Wastewater Utility. Here on behalf of the applicant, Albanese DNS. In attendance, we have Pete Luciani as well. Earlier today, I'd emailed out a response to comments that were submitted to me. I don't know if the board has had a chance to review these comments, but I'd be happy to read them out loud if that'd be beneficial.

Yeah, I can't .

So, we did receive a memorandum from planning staff about the trees indicating what your request was. They requested for the highlight of trees which were remaining, description of them, the planting, what trees they can keep. but trees they can keep during production. A plan for watering, and I believe we did receive a response today indicating that they will set up a watering system. Let me get the rest of it here. And they were gonna, let's see. Temporary fencing. The watering plan. If any trees don't make it through the watering plan, those will be replaced as well. Talked about the type of trees to be taken down and planted. We had pictures of the trees. In response. Yeah, we got the reason. This is from Jordan Bergeron, the Wastewater Utility Engineer Manager.

Anything you want to say, sir, or just the reports that we received? Yeah, so I learned her response. I think the comments that were submitted by the planning department were well thought out, and I think we can address all of them. They had requested a plan to highlight which trees would remain in the area. We're more than happy to develop that plan as a tentative approval condition, but right now we were unable to do so. It could be done via a licensed arborist, and we can make a tabled summary, basically detailing the conditions of the trees to remain. Forward trees were requested to be considered for non-removal as part of this project, and we're happy to have those trees remain. They're not really... dependent on clearing out a space. So we can keep those trees per the board's approval. Temporary fencing will be deployed to enclose the expanded site area, which would protect the remaining trees from any construction activities. We'd also be able to highlight these trees via marking tape, as well as provide two by four kind of splint buffering on these trees to ensure that they are well cared for during the construction activities. A watering plan will be established with the contractor, a little water and sewer in DCR. At present, there is no water service supplying water to the parcel. However, there are plans for upcoming water rehabilitation work in that area. And as part of that work, we can incorporate a water feed line to supply irrigation to any planted trees as they grow. Additionally, it was commented that the trees provided by DCR have more of a narrow depth at 0.5 inches. They do range from 0.5 to 2 inches. We are happy to supply whatever trees are best seen fit. In the provided planting plan that is tentative, it's based on availability of replanted trees. So we're happy to work with the board to relocate those trees as best as possible. Additionally, if any trees are found to pass away in the replanting process, we would replace them in kind. Essentially, our intent for this project is not to remove trees unnecessarily. We're trying to minimize disruption to the residents of Centerville via the ongoing Centerville sewer separation project. It's a lot of work that's ongoing, and we've actively sought out space for this material storage. So we landed on 61 First Street Boulevard, eight months ago or so at this point. So it's already active in use as a material storage site. Our hopes are to expand this site such that we can keep all those activities on one parcel. It's far removed enough from the residential area. It'll keep truck flow limited to major throwaways. It will prevent unnecessary noise, disruptions, basically inconvenience of managing such a site on another facility. So we're intending to expand this available parcel and then return it and restore it into proper conditions once we're done with the sewer separation work.

Thank you, sir. Anything further? No? OK, thank you.

Any questions, happy to answer that.

Thank you very much. At this point in time, I'll turn the matter over to the public hearing. Anybody this evening want to speak in favor of this tree hearing? In favor? In favor? In favor? Hearing none, anybody like to speak in opposition?

Yes.

Just come up to the microphone, please, and give us your name and address.

I'm not sure if this is in favor or against. My name is James Harrington, and I live on Christian Street in Lowell. The Centerville area has been devastated with the loss of trees at the reservoir and at the Appalachian. There's gotta be over 100 trees that have disappeared over that hill. Now you're planning to take down another 40 or so trees, and I don't see, maybe I don't have all the information that I should have, but I don't see where any plan is out there to replace any of those trees. There hasn't been a tree replaced up on Christian Hill Um, in two years or more. Um, I know the planning board has made conditions on the reservoir trees and the Appalachian that, uh, the developers required to plant trees. I haven't seen anything done over there. There's been no trees replanted in and around the reservoir. I know there's only a few that are supposed to go in the reservoir, but there are others that are part of the plan to go along Beacon Street, Beach Street, Jewett and so forth. You're doing a great job on the planning board and you're making conditions that people should meet. They're not meeting them. And I'm not sure what can be done to accommodate that. I mean, they're talking about having trees replanted in this area, that area, uh, along the river where they propose. This project is going to go for five years, if I'm not mistaken, or at least five years, and you're not going to be planting trees back there for five years. Who's going to be responsible for that? That's all I have to say.

Thank you, sir. Anybody else like to speak in opposition? In opposition? In opposition? Nobody else at this time? I'll turn it over to the board members.

Mr. Chairman, if I may. Sure, Mr. Bichette. I'm sorry, if you could come to the microphone, please. And I'm sorry, I did not get your name.

If you could say your name again, please. Apologies. My name is Gordon Bergeron. I'm the engineering manager for the Little Regional Wastewater Utility.

All right. Thank you, Gordon. It was a good question, because I was wondering, what is the timeline for the project?

So right now, we're on phase one of a three-phase project. Phase one is slated to end in 2028. then there's going to be a multi-phase 2a 2b project essentially phase one is the main artery separating out a brook and a wetland from the sewer system phase 2a will expand drainage to the westerly side of that main conduit that will be slated to start in 2027 ending in 2031 and then phase 2b is slated to expand existing drainage on the easterly side of that phase one project uh work please schedule tentatively for 2028 through 2032.

And the intention is for this to be the staging area for that, all three phases?

If no alternative staging area is found for stages 2A and 2B, it would be an optimal candidate. As of right now, we only intend to use it for phase one, or it's actively being used for phase one.

So in theory, to the gentleman's point, is even we condition, we've got a tree planting plan. But who knows if DCL will have a program in 2033. That's a bit concerning. Again, and it's a city project, but I do go back to the reservoir. I haven't seen trees planted, and that's not a contract. That's not a private contract, all right? So I can understand the frustration there. Ooh, yeah. you know i understand this is an important project for the city obviously uh and there needs to be a staging area uh it is away from the residential area but i am just concerned about um the replanting uh program if if the intention is for phase just for phase one which would then the estimated completion time is 2028 um If we condition this so that if it's not completed and you're not into the processor, implementing the planting program is you have to come back before this board if it was to be retained as a a staging site for phase two and two a I just think it I mean what we would condition today and in 2033 I just don't even know what that's even relevant at this point so I mean does that seem reasonable gentlemen

I understand where the concern lies, truly. I do see the reason in your statement. Again, I will say, we've sought a lot of alternative staging area locations in Centerville. With this highly developed as it is, there really isn't much available space to be used as staging. I understand there's concerns with a replanting plan that calls for trees to be replanted in five years after the project, potentially. But I'm more than happy to work to ensure that the trees are replanted on a set timeline, however is best to see fit. If trees could be planted in an alternative location in lieu of the dog park, and then replanted at the dog park after that point in time, potentially as an alternative, I'm happy to work with the board on finding proper middle ground.

No, I appreciate that. My question is, is that, and I don't know the answer to this, is that been an active dog park and is the intent to still have it be an active dog park when you're finished?

The intent is to return it to a dog park, but in better shape than when we first found it, first set up stage there. There's the potential to expand it. There's the potential to restore it in kind. We're taking out a lot of hydrants that we can use as decor in the dog park. We're open to leaving the area better than when we found it.

I mean, I get there's a lot of type of grub trees and stuff that you're taking out of there that don't have a lot of value, right? So I get that, but wow. Okay, I'm just waiting to hear what my fellow board members have to say and the questions they have. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Caleb, you have any questions?

So, yeah, thank you for your explanation. Yeah, I also have a full picture of the timeline, and so I appreciate the clarification on that one. i i have a share of same concern i mean i think the board have come to agreement i mean the board members come to an agreement before at that hour i would say agreement understanding that we want a more practical um replanting plan for uh tree hearings because uh i think that's uh as the uh gentlemen have said a lot of times we were not sure whether people were um doing what they're conditioned to do. And so this project has given us a little dilemma here because of the more expanded timeline. I am open to what you suggest, that we could find alternative location and figure out how to do it proportionally so you also We planning to partial afterwards, but but not wait to do that all in 5 years or more so. I also would like to hear from other members and see what we may then on. Tony dancer.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the questions I had when I went out to the site yesterday, I didn't see any postings. I couldn't figure out what trees were which. I couldn't get in there. There was a chain link fence surrounding most of the area. So one, I have no idea what trees they're taking down. Two, I didn't see any postings. So I don't even know whether they're properly before this board. Three, waiting five years for replanting is crap. I absolutely understand their position. They can't replace anything there. But there needs to be a better process, as mentioned by fellow board members. It should be more of, okay, if we have to take down these trees, And I'm not convinced that we do yet. It sounds like if we do, we should be replanting some of it in other areas in Centerville. And then when this is done in 5, 10, 15, or how many years this is going to take, then maybe that dog park comes back to life. My biggest problem is we're just cutting down trees so we can store stuff. That seems bizarre to me. We have a wastewater treatment plant down the street. Don't know what area they have there. But we're just storing materials from what it sounds like. So I have serious issues with this. I understand, as Vice Chair Frechette mentioned, that it is an important project. But it seems like we're also going backwards in everything else, just cutting things down to store things. I'd like to hear more, I guess, is where I'm at, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Lucia, any questions, comments?

Ms. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I mean, I don't want my decision to adversely affect the CSO project. I mean, where the city is under a consent decree with the EPA. So, it has to get done regardless. But I do agree that 43 trees along the riverbank seems counterproductive. I'm no expert, but it would seem to me that these woodlands help mitigate flooding. Has this been considered in the decision to remove the trees? I mean, yes, it's ideal in the sense that it's out of the way of the residents of Centerville, but you're taking down what protects those residents from flood.

If I could address both councilors' concerns, or both board members' concerns, apologies. Regarding the flood mitigation, we have considered that. Proper stormwater erosion and sediment control plan will be included to encapsulate the site and proper measures to mitigate stormwater runoff. I recognize we will be removing the root systems, but with enough overlay material that shouldn't be impacted. Additionally, the trees at large, I understand the signage was hard to locate. The whole area is overgrown in vegetation at this point in time. I can assure the signs were posted in accordance with the board conditions. There are four trees along the driveway to the parcel with signs located and then In lieu of the visibility of the signs within the overgrowth, we posted signs on the fence as well. I know it's not directly on the tree, but just to kind of bring awareness to the location of the site itself. I understand that 43 trees is a lot to remove at one time, given the importance of these trees in protecting the ecosystem around there. It is worth noting 12, 13 of these trees are invasive species. There is a lot of Japanese knotwood in that area as well. And just a lot of the trees were in poor and critical health as well. I believe in the conditional assessment, only one or two trees qualified as good. The majority were fair and poor with one being listed as critical. They're not the... Trees are not in the best condition at this point in time. I'm happy to, like I said, I'm happy to work with the board to ensure that an appropriate replacement plan is implemented and executed in a timely manner, be it onsite, offsite, some combination of the two.

And has it been calculated how long it will take for regrowth?

I do not have that calculation off the top of my head.

Because it's going to take five years before they're replanted.

Correct, I do not have the calculation on the top of my head for how long it takes the selected trees to be regrown, but I'm happy to get that calculation.

And just to your comment about the invasive species, yes, there were 12, but there were also ash trees as well as, no way, no, those are the invasive, American elm. There were nine American elm and two white ash trees, which are endangered, so.

I believe one of the elm trees and the ash tree were requested by the planning department not to be removed, and we are more than happy to take that into consideration and not remove those trees.

But given their location, I don't think you'd be able to save them all if you're storing materials there. i was happy to see in your comments this afternoon that you did you weren't going to take the white ash which was number 152 because that was a very mature tree and it was away from the designated store area um i mean again i understand the decision that the city is in here um and i hope that serious consideration has been given and that there's no other place to store these materials that's all i have thank you tell any questions comment well i i went to the same location and i couldn't go i mean i saw one tree that has a something tied to it

and the posting was kind of hard to locate. And I mean, you know, the board member has expressed our concern. I think there's some lack of, you know, assuring us that, you know, what plans to plant those trees and how it's gonna be done and how to care for it. That's, you know, that's my concern as well. I know that we need to get this thing done. Expansion, modernizing. Thanks.

So I understand this is a big project for the city. I mean, it's all because of the combined sewer overflow, right? You put this over there, which were mandated to do by the federal government. Correct. So you tried to pick a spot that's least problematic for the neighbors. So you tried to put it in an isolated area, where just the trees are, by a bridge, under the bridge, wide open, no residential area, businesses on that way. I get that. So I understand the need to take the trees down. I think going back to what Mr. Vachette was saying earlier, if we could get a plan like to do so much in a certain period of time and then go on from there, would that be conducive somehow?

I'm happy to have that be part of a conditional approval. Yeah.

Yeah. What you were saying about earlier, Jeremy, if we could do like, do so much after phase one, then come back and see where we stand. And then if you can say, we have areas where we can put other trees now for the interim, give you more chance to look over where they could go. And if you say, if a lot of the trees aren't in good health to begin with, that just causes problems down the road. So I know when I was up there, I went, during the week when the construction trucks were working there. I spoke with the gentleman working there and they had all sorts of trucks coming and going, coming and going. Like you said, it's basically away from the neighbors, everybody else. It's not really disruptive to that part of the city. They were doing a lot of work when I was there. I spoke with the gentleman on the construction trucks and he was pointing out all the trees that had to come down. what the plan was in the future. But yeah, it looked like he was ready to take them down pretty soon. Yeah, like they're right there. And he was probably pretty close to that. And then they were filling up the dump trucks, pulling all the dirt and loam out. I think they were putting in a machine, cleaning it all out and then dumping it out. But yeah, if we could do some timetable instead of just putting it out for eight years and gets to see if trees do come back or where they go. It's kind of like a wide open question. Um, so we had something a little more defender, but I think it would help the board to, um, make a proper decision on this.

Mr. Chairman, if I, if I may, I guess, yeah, I guess my, my suggestion would be that they work with DPD, um, I mean, they're planting approximately 48 new trees or somewhere, right? So my thought is to come up with a phased planting program, and so by 2028, either through identifying other locations within the neighborhood to plant at least 12 trees, we'll say. Right. And then come before this board for the next phase to look identifying location for an additional 12, 14 trees. And then for the final stage would be the, come back before the board. I just think it's, I don't even know if this program will be available by 2023. I really don't. um so um and i by the way i took advantage of the dcr program i have a red maple in my home that they planted it didn't cost me a penny and uh so i'm thrilled i just had to sign an agreement that i water it for two years so um but i i just honestly i i i in in um And the gentleman had a point that spoke, Mr. Harrington, and I think you've spoken at every single one of those hearings that you mentioned. I'm disappointed with the reservoir project. There was supposed to be, I think, I remember in the spring there was going to be some plantings and identify them. I'm not aware of. at anything that's been planted so um and that's that's a similar type of you know engineering firm that was used as a city project and and i haven't i'm not aware of the trees going up so i may have missed that unless dpd is aware of it but i'm dylan are you aware of any trees going up i'm not aware Yeah, OK. So yeah, that would be my suggestion, and come back before this board with a plan that then we can vote on this proposal is what I would like to see, is come back with, hey, this is what we want to do phase one, and this is what we would be approving. with the condition that you would be coming back for the future phases. I don't know how the board feels about that.

Do you want to reply to that, or do you feel like you'll work with that?

I'm very happy to work in a phased approach. I will express some concern with that plan. Phase one is the largest of our sewer separation programs. We have three crews actively working simultaneously, and they all utilize that one space for their fill material and material handling. That is the nature of proposing this tree removal during phase one and not at a later facility. We've already reached the capacity that we have available and it will, I fear that it will impede the timeline in order to meet the required deadlines that we.

Well, I guess what I'm indicating, and I guess I didn't make this clear, is we've done this before. identify other spots across the street in centerville that could benefit from these trees uh working with dpd or even other locations where the walk is that they would be planted so they wouldn't be planted particularly on that site but let's get some trees planted to replace what's being taken out and that's going to leave another What do we've got 36 trees or so? That would be You know and who knows by 30 2033 I mean I have no idea And but at that point then then how that site would be reconfigured there might be a new thought a new way of doing designing dog parks that we you and I can't even think of right now and 2026 So I just I just I don't know. To me, I don't think we're making a relevant condition based on the fact that we're looking at a 2023 completion date. I would like to .

Excuse me. My name is Aaron Fox. I'm the Chief Utility Officer. for the city. And so I just want to make a couple of comments. Thank you, Gordon. And so I'm sorry.

So could you repeat your title again? I'm sorry.

It's Aaron Fox. I'm the chief utility officer for the facilities. Yep. All right. So I'm in charge of water and wastewater. OK. And so I think the chair and the board has a great plan. We can definitely take those 12 trees in some phased approach. I understand what you're saying. So we could take those and move them, not necessarily in that space, but maybe there's other places within Centerville that could benefit. Correct. And I think we could definitely come back with a plan like that.

Not to interfere with, I understand you want the use of that site. So I get that. But let's have the neighborhood get some benefit from that. And we're still leaving a lot of trees right from the replacement for that site and um but i think um like i said i just in 2026 to make a decision and condition upon trees that are available through dcr for something that's going to be completed in 2033 i just don't think is relevant right and so should that program no longer be there would still go forward and make sure those trees get planted if the dcr program is not available

And I understand the need, right? So this is a long-term project, massive project for the neighborhood, one of the biggest DPW public works projects the city's seen in its modern history. And so very invasive. And what we're trying to do is reduce that impact to the public, which has been stated here tonight. And so, but if there's a way, like, I think this idea of moving the 12 trees to the other side, we can mitigate some of those impacts, especially if shade trees and trees in the process, I think that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. That's, that's, that's my intent. So you still have the use of the site. And it's still, obviously, we've got to do something with that site at some point. But in the immediate, let's get some replacement trees out there.

And so for the trees along the reservoir, we can come back with an update and say where those trees are being planted. When we did that removal of those trees, those trees were to be planted in other spaces, not at the reservoir itself. And I can come back with an update to the board if they'd like. Thank you.

This comes to the microphone. Say your name and address, please.

Jane Calvin, I'm the Executive Director of the Lowell Parks and Conservation Trust. I just want to check, I like the idea of approaching this in a phased approach. I wanted to check on your math. So if we do this in a phased approach and we plant 12 out in Centerville somewhere else, Will we still plant the 48 on site? What I'm getting at is, and I'm not speaking to this project specifically, but to the planning board in general in terms of tree replacements, I'd like you to get away from a tree for tree replacement. And the ideal is to go for an inch per inch replacement, which is not realistic in a city like Lowell. But we need to get away from just a tree for a tree. So a 24-inch tree, regardless of its condition, is not equally replaced by a 3-inch tree or a 2-inch tree. So if this is a phased approach and we're planting, I'd love to have the utility. you know, put these trees out in the neighborhoods in the name of the project and not have it be, you know, 12 random trees that either the trust plants or DCR plants somewhere, right? I'd rather have them be a concerted effort that, you know, acknowledges the project that's happening and the impact on the neighborhood rather than just random tree placements across Centerville. Centerville definitely deserves quite a few tree replacements. So my question is, are we still going to have the same number of trees replaced on site if they're phased approach, you know, out in the neighborhood?

That's a good question, Ms. Kelman. And we're trying to figure that out as we're speaking right now. So that's a good question. It is. I'm good for those. I believe it's, you know, the replacement is based on the size of the tree. I believe you had a lot to do with the city's tree ordinance, didn't you? back and then i pretty much wrote it and yeah that's what i thought yeah so i you and i have a history so uh so my so my question is though right it's the city will replace a tree and a one to two ratio and the two replacement tree two and a half inches to three and a half inch caliper so i mean they it does call for

That's a newer version of the ordinance.

Yeah, OK. Yeah. OK. Yeah.

But yeah, definitely just try and, the new ordinance is actually better than what we worked on in 2004. So.

Yeah, that's how they come up with the calculation for the number of trees.

Yeah. OK.

I mean, a lot of those trees are smaller out there that they're removing. Removing a lot of small trees, too. There's just a lot of.

Yeah, I'd love to see the site return to something better than it is now.

Yeah, understood.

Great.

Thank you. I guess thoughts on

Yeah. Through you, Mr. Chair, my thoughts, I like what you're saying. And I understand how hard it is for Mr. Bergeron and Mr. Fox. They have to do their job. We're just trying to make sense of all of this. And I like the idea of the phase approach. I would not set it out two years. I would set, it would seem to me that Ms. Calvin is suggesting that that they should go in a a non-random approach which is great but i've only been on this board two years and i have not seen we've been told about a tree planting plan when I first got here, and I haven't seen it. So I'm not sure there is one. And I think what we need to do, at least for the moment, is do maybe if we're going to, if there are 39 trees that are less than 24 inches and there are four that are greater, then that gives us those 48 trees. It would sound to me like first year is 12 second year is 12 third year is 12 and then and then we work on hopefully at that's 2029 hopefully we're looking to the end of the first phase and and maybe they don't need this facility or this space and then the dog park can be replaced. I do understand that, as Lucia had mentioned, there are a lot of nice trees. Some of them have fallen in disrepair, of course, over time, but it would seem to me that we should be aggressive about this and we should be able to figure out in a year has anything been done and what has been done so that would be my suggestion um and then come back and look at the dog park we're not going to look at the dog park until it says 2032 so six years from now so you know that's after the three phases so realistically we we should be looking to help out Centerville with a tree planting plan that does it over the next four years anybody else have any further discussion

um i do have one thought i know like even though we were very far away i wonder because i recall tree pending i was in st louis park and um and try and brought my kids to not supposed to have open uh playground yet but people find a way in um i mean i don't know if board member remember there are some trees that were removed and now they are replanted and so that works out pretty well so i'm thinking like probably Something like that. Even though this is much more natural wild growth versus a park condition. So I'm wondering if... Forgot the planner's name who did a great job on... Jerry and I walked the... the Clemente Park, right? The other day. So they do a great job over there. And so where G and other ones in DPT have an idea about like, you know, what's the dog park. I know it's still in the future, but whether there's any planning done. And so we can kind of have an idea about how many trees they might need. And so that we were not just guessing right now. So just a suggestion. I don't know. They will have to work with you anyway, to DPD anyway. So, I mean, any ideas that could be, or expertise that could be used right now would be nice.

To Caleb's point, Dylan, is DPD, do they have a plan for what the finished product, what they want it to look like for the dog park?

I'm not aware of any, that DPD is working on any plan for the dog park, no.

It's not part of the park and recreational plan? I wonder.

I don't know every detail of the Parks and Recreation.

Oh, OK. I don't know. I was trying to look on that, too. But I will think that. I know it's a dog park. It's kind of tucked away. And I like it when the pipes are still on the candy cane color, but otherwise very easily missed. But Dylan, if you can ask around and see if there is an idea. I think any information could be helpful. But if there is not, then just there is none.

I have a question. Just a quick question for you. Wouldn't you like to see that location? Wouldn't you like to use that location? Is there a timetable that you'd like to see it getting started and getting all that tree cut out and replaced?

We'd like to expand that location as soon as possible.

Okay.

Yeah.

So there's an urgent request. Okay. I think that's the board should, you know, trying to accommodate us as much as we can so that we don't delay and create a lot of, you know, constraint to their making progress. Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah. It has a big impact on the neighborhood and obviously the project itself to be able to use that piece of property.

So if I may add. So yeah, with that urgency and I know Lucia asked about other concentrations of flooding. It seems like you guys have thought about all that out. So I think for me, and I don't know for other members, but I feel like I understand the need to remove the trees right now. And I'm OK with that. But I think it's the program for how to replant the trees that we're tackling. I wish to take as little guessing as possible, but knowing that that's not ideal, I agree with what Member Frechette have mentioned. It's like, how do we do a phased one? do it practically so that um i think both address the immediate need to make sure the community is not impacted by tree loss but also in the long term as uh as um uh as mentioned that we want to make sure the end resell on the parcel is also um a good result so we kind of have the balance of two

If, this is Mr. Chairman, if I may, just for consideration here. If there's a motion to approve.

Can I come on? Come to the microphone? Well, go ahead.

I don't want to, I'm not against the location of the storage area for the, for the, sewer separation project. I think it's an excellent choice. It keeps everybody out of the main neighborhoods. My only concern is the trees. If there was another area along the river that was great, I'd be here telling you to use that, and I'd still be here telling you about the trees. Thank you.

Point well taken. So, incorporating the conditions from DPD relative to trying to preserve the trees that they've identified, I just, I have concerns about, you know, conditioning with the DCOP program. It's great, but I just, if that's for the total site, I just don't know if that's something that's going to be practical. Um, but incorporating the, uh, you know, obviously the, uh, the, uh, watering system, irrigation system, um, and identifying trees that can remain. But I, I would just like to put at least, um, that the project within, um, the first, um, 12 months, would work with DPD to identify appropriate locations in the Centerville neighborhood for the planting of at least 12 trees and that the planting program for the site will still incorporate the original 48 trees. incorporating these conditions and then quite frankly if these conditions can't be met they'll have to come back before the board right they won't be able to follow what was approved at that point so we're still maintaining the original 48 And but we are asking really we're asking for more do something within the first year And I know it's an arbitrary number. I'm just taking that as basically a third Approximately of what what you're looking at based on three phases. I don't know Comfortable with that

Mr. Chairman? Yes. Member Frechette, I think that makes a lot of sense. Get it done. But identify and plant within one year. And we schedule it for one year, a one-year date to be here.

To come before the board?

Yeah. As a progress? Yeah. I think that gives them the opportunity to deal with the storage. And at the same time, we can achieve something. And quite frankly, I'd be looking for the next year. and the next year, because we need to continue to do that. And then eventually, we'll get to the dog park in whatever, six, seven years.

OK. Well, the thing is, I think we have to resign to the fact myself, is that even based on what I'm hearing, the completion of phase one, we're not looking at trees being planted back on that site yet. And in addition to phase two, we're not looking at trees being planted on that site yet. So it's still going to be faced with the same issue. I think that the biggest concern is to ensure that at least those initial trees have been planted. and again if they if we approve it with the condition that they have to still replace on-site 48 trees um i think at that point if they can't meet the condition that's going to have to come before whoever's sitting here in 2033 because they can't meet the conditions of of the approval

But I also think it gives them good guidance if we say, you're going to appear in a year, that you should have a replanting plan for the next 12. And that way there, if they're not able to do it in 2033, like we're describing, we don't know what's going to happen. We don't know what that's going to look like.

Well, the next phase I mean, they're talking about completing phase one in 2028, phase two 2031, and 2B 2033. I just don't know the value of coming back. It's not to have them plant 12 more trees throughout Centerville. It's really, this is almost like a down payment. 12 trees, put 12 trees down right now, and then you come back to the site and address the site. So I'm really not looking at doing, I don't know what progress is gonna be achieved at that point, I really don't.

But realistically, if you're saying 2033, all right, so next year is 2027, you got six more years. All right, we get the down payment and then what? My thinking would be is you phase in as many trees as we can get each year, and that helps the Centerville neighborhood. At the same time, it helps the water and wastewater departments get their job done.

But I guess maybe what member said is thinking then then you plan all the trees and what what there is no quota left at the site in the end unless you require them to plan we could we could we could say we you know we could we would like 100 trees we know it's it's within our discretion.

Well, I mean that this is the outline of how you determine what the trees are and what board is that before well we the city has designated this board as the tree hearing board yeah despite the fact and i don't like it despite the fact that it doesn't say the planning board is supposed to be dealing with the trees but i mean that's then the tree ordinance is how you come up with the calculation of the replacement trees so uh that's how we come up with the number it's not an arbitrary number what's an arbitrary number is what we're trying to determine right now And again, it's an effort to try to address the fact that we're not seeing trees getting replaced. This is not in the heart of the neighborhood, but it's right along the river. Let's see if we can't get at least some trees into the neighborhood. So from that perspective, Mr. Chairman, If there is no further discussion, I think I'll make a motion that we approve the tree removal plan with the following conditions. That the applicant would provide a plan that highlights which existing trees will remain and a written description of what protective measures will be taken to ensure the remaining trees will survive will be provided to DPD. Uh, the parole's planning plan, uh, is relying on a supply of trees with DCR Greenway, uh, gateway cities. Trees provided through this program have, uh, a smaller caliber so that, um, will not, uh, reproduce the camping loss of extended. So what this point, if the trees cannot be retained, then it is recommended that a third of the new trees be two, um, two inches diameter in order to better offset the substantial loss. Um, And then again, it's recommended that the project examine whether the loss of trees identified of the necessary staging project and a large diameter width in trees and varied in species and location. So again, that they have to do a reassessment of the trees that can be retained and work with DPD to identify them. And then... The plan for watering and establishing new trees should be coordinated with the contractor and there should be a plan for a replacement of any dead trees within one year of planting. That would go forward with the condition. Then the condition would be that 12 trees will be planted at locations to be determined with working with DPD in the Centerville neighborhood within the first 12 months of approval of this plan. And 48 trees will be planted on the site currently at the on 60 i'm sorry on 61 first street boulevard upon the completion of the project so in essence we're now getting um we're getting 60 trees 12 off site and 48 on site That would be the motion, Mr. Chairman.

I'll second the motion. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposition? Hearing none, the motion carries. Good luck. Thank you. Thank you. Next item on the agenda will be Phoenix Avenue. Site plan review revision 55, 75 and 77 Phoenix Ave. Phoenix Ave Realty LLC has applied to the Lowell Planning Board to revise a previously granted site plan review approval. The property is located in the Light Industrial Zoning District. The proposed revision is to allow the applicant to retain the building located at 75 Phoenix Ave. And to make associated changes to the site layout. The proposal requires site plan review approval. from the Planning Board for Section 11.4 for construction of a non-residential structure or structures greater than 10,000 square feet. May we hear from the applicant, please?

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could you just give us a moment to get organized here?

Thank you. Take your time, Counsel.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good evening to all. For the record, my name is John Geary of Geary and Geary LLP, 32 Church Street, Lowell, Mass. Here tonight representing the applicant, Phoenix Ave Realty, LLC. With us tonight, we have Ed Kirby, one of the principals of Phoenix Ave. We have Troy Stearns and Jim Henley from Civil Design Consultants. And we have Angie Verge, our landscape design, our landscape architect. In advance of tonight's hearing, we have provided the Board with the revised site plan, we have provided an updated stormwater management plan, we have provided an engineering summary letter specifying the revisions to the site plan, and we have provided a revised landscaping plan which takes into consideration those revisions. So this application is here before you tonight to amend a site plan approval pursuant to Section 11.4 of the City Zoning Ordinance. The site plan approval that's currently in place is from March of 2024. We were before you at that time to redevelop 55, 75, and 77 Phoenix Avenue into three commercial buildings. The first building to be constructed was located at 55 Phoenix Avenue. That building, for orientation purposes, as you approach the site from Rogers Street, it's the first building on your right. The second building to be constructed was 77 Phoenix Avenue. That is the building to the rear of the site, the large four-bay building. And the third building that was proposed was at 75 Phoenix Avenue. That is the location of the existing building at 75 Phoenix Avenue, which is on the southerly end of Phoenix Avenue. So at this time, the applicant is proposing to retain that building at 75 Phoenix Avenue as opposed to tearing it down and constructing a new building. The reasons the applicant wants to do that, when the property was initially purchased by the applicant, they put a lot of money into their refurbishing the interior of that building and the infrastructure associated with that building, both electrical, mechanical, and the tie-ins. So there's been a lot of money dumped into that property. The property is fully tenanted at this point in time. We've relocated some of the existing tenants into that building. It's functioning very well. So the applicant doesn't see any need to demolish the existing building, displace tenants, and invest in constructing a new building at the site. So that's the gist of why we were here tonight. Specifically, just summarizing the changes to the plan, because of the retaining the 75 Phoenix Ave building that's in place, there's more room now between 55 and 75 Phoenix Ave buildings. That allows for better circulation through the site, and it allows for additional parking. The revised site plan also provides for access to an alleyway along the southerly portion of the 75 Phoenix Ave building where there's a bay. So there's access to that bay. And it also proposes that the landscape island in front of 75 along the frontage of 75 be reduced slightly. um so so those are the reasons why we're here tonight i'm sure you've all been to the site you've seen the vast improvement in the site since we were here back in march of 2024. soon enough the construction at 77 phoenix ave will be completed that building will be Fully occupied the landscaping will be done the parking will will receive its finished coat of paving The parking lot will be lined and it will be a tremendous improvement to that site for the neighborhood and for the city Um, so that's the gist of why we're here. We did receive the comments from the staff. Those comments did not express any concern relative to these revisions. There was an engineering condition noted that, uh, the applicant mill and pave any disturbed areas in the street. We are perfectly amenable to that condition. Um, so with that, I'll turn the presentation over to Troy Stearns from civil design. He'll go through the details of the revisions. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Troy Cerns of Civil Design. As John mentioned, currently the building at 55 has been constructed and occupied by tenants. 77 Phoenix is currently under construction. The majority of the stormwater BMPs, utilities, and pavement have also been installed for both of these properties. The applicant is now proposing to retain the existing building at 75 Phoenix Ave, which creates a few necessary changes. I'll move over to the site plan. Let me see. Additional alleyways along the north and south side of the building are proposed, which provide additional parking areas, improve site circulation, as well as a tapered landscape island along the front of 75 Phoenix to allow additional room for vehicles to maneuver in and out of the bays. The proposed plan amendment remains compliant with applicable parking requirements. Based on these requirements, we would need 64 parking spaces. We're currently proposing 65. We have provided a sweat path analysis for our ladder truck. It shows it coming in from the north driveway and exiting out the south. Modifications to utility and stormwater management systems have been proposed and designed for continued compliance with applicable state and local regulations. We detail stormwater compliance in our drainage report. The key takeaway in that is we continue in a net reduction of impervious area of approximately 14,262 square feet. These changes do not necessitate any modifications to our originally approved BMPs. We received a memorandum from the Department of Planning and Development. It doesn't seem any departments have any comments with the exception of the final restoration, Phoenix Ave, which the applicant is aware of and will complete. We do not believe any of these changes created any impact to the initial conditions approved by the plan board. I now invite Angie Vergeup to go over changes in the landscape design.

bring in this with me.

Uh, good evening. My name is Angie verge. I am a landscape architect with Angie verge landscape architecture in Carlisle, and I prepared the revised landscape plan. I have it here in analog form. This plan shows the original approved landscape plan kind of grayed out, and this is the as-built conditions. The new proposed plants are the colored plants there, so we can see that a little bit bolder. Really, the revision is pretty simple. It's based on the original site plan. A similar plant palette is being used, which was approved through the Conservation Commission because this is the original site plan. And area portions of it are in wetland buffer zone. So we're using the majority of native plants, which will provide some ecological benefit to the site. We are continuing a row of shade trees along the Phoenix Ave planting areas. Again, this area here is already as built and currently being installed. We're also adding some shade trees to some of the parking lot peninsulas that have been added for the new site plan circulation. And we're also adding some native birch trees to allow for full use of the snow storage areas around some of the other storage areas. Thank you.

Thank you.

So, Mr. Chairman, we believe this site plan continues to meet the criteria pursuant to 11.4, and for that reason, we are respectfully requesting approval of the amended site plan this evening. We're here and we're happy to answer any questions or try to address any concerns that anybody may have. Thank you.

Thank you, Counselor. At this point in time, would anybody like to speak in favor of this project? Anyone like to speak in favor? In favor? In favor? In favor? Hearing none, anybody like to speak in opposition? In opposition? In opposition? Hearing none, I'll turn it over to any question from any of the board members.

Mr. Chairman, if I may, I really don't have a lot to say on it or ask any questions. I just think it's a real good example when we see something go up in an industrial zone of what we'd like to see. You know, the streetscape has improved and now, you know, with continuing that in front of the other building, I was impressed. I was a little concerned when we have small areas of grass, you know, how it's going to survive. And I took pictures of the sprinkler hedge. They had a sprinkler system in there. I mean, it looked fantastic. So, you know, there's not a lot of green space. It's an industrial area. But, boy, what you have, you're taking care of. You're making good use of it. You know, if you want to employ people in these buildings and these industrial zones, that's the way to go about it, too, because it just it adds a walkability to it. And I mean, I just I'm delighted with how the project has proceeded to date. Obviously, 75 that needs some work as far as the front of the building but that's what this is right once you're going to finish that the landscaping and continue that that landscape island um the the curbing uh and then the shade trees uh towards the rear of the building um so i'm i'm i have no uh no other uh comments or questions for mr chairman thank you thank you um i'll go next uh basically we approved this plan like you say back in march uh

and out there looking at it the other day. I think the plan's coming along fine. I have no objection to this. Obviously, I believe the changes that you're making are minor. And with the landscaping plan, you're addressing all the issues there. Like I said, it was only one comment from staff was about including the milling or paving of all utility trenches related to the project on Phoenix Ave. All the other departments have no comments on it. So I'm in favor of the project. I have no problem with it at all. Caleb, you have any questions?

Just one question. I think other chair and vice chair already cover most of the issues that are not issues, non-issues that I have in mind. I see that the parking is a little dense right now in this site. Is that going to be temporary? And then they might like, you know, I mean, I know the parking spaces are there, but there are also commercial vehicles and what else. Are they going to have somewhere to park or remain on site?

Yeah. So right now, it's still a construction zone. As I said, soon enough, the finish code of pavement will be down. The parking will be lined pursuant to the plan. And the trucks, I drive by there all the time, so I see what you see. The trucks are on the south side of that 75 Phoenix Avenue, but that will be an access way. Okay. So really not a place for trucks. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, thank you. Just quickly, drove by the site yesterday. I guess I was surprised that there were two buildings already up. They looked outstanding. The landscaping, as Jerry mentioned, the streetscape looked fantastic. I was surprised that the rest of the project wasn't going to be finished. But I kind of understand at the moment why.

Yeah, at this point, it's an investment, as proposed, it would be an investment in excess of $13 million. There may be an opportunity for the applicant to come back and get to that third building, but not right away. They need to get up and running. So that may be a possibility down the road. I certainly understand what you're saying, the two new buildings and then you have 75. But it has gone through a lot of, you know, the interior, the infrastructure associated with it is all brand new.

Yeah, they've done a great job. I would say keep up the good work. And I would love to see it completed at some point down the line when they have the funds.

Right. Appreciate that. Lucia, any questions, comments?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a comment. No questions. I would say that the proposed amendment doesn't materially alter what was formally approved. And by keeping the existing building, as they've said, they're increasing pervious area of over 14,000 square feet, which I think is great considering it's in a wetland area. And if they're amenable to complying with comments from engineering, I have no issues with amending the initial site plan.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I like the building. I like the project. I don't have any more questions. Thank you.

Well, it sounds like you got some good responses, counsel.

Yes. I mean, it wasn't a- Very much appreciated. Better than the alternative.

I'll make a motion that we approve the- the site plan revision with the one condition that was requested by staff which was no objection by council was that the final restoration is required including milling and paving of all utility trenches related to the project on phoenix avenue Motion made, second by Attorney Tangiao. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposition? Hearing none, the motion carries. The project is allowed.

Thank you all for your time.

Okay, moving along on the agenda, next matter is a site plan review for 1413-1415, Barnum Ave., known as Pawtucket Farm. The Massachusetts Audubon Society Inc. has applied to Lowell Planning Board to create a parking area at the above address. The subject property is located in the suburban single family zoning district. The proposal requires site plan review approval per section 11.4.2 to construct a parking area with more than 14 spaces or 4,000 square feet of impervious surface. May we have the applicant please?

Good evening. Liz Stetson, Mass Audubon Senior Director of Capital Assets and Planning. I'm just going to provide a very brief overview and some context to the project, and then we'll turn things over to our engineering and planning team to walk you through the details of the project. As I think many of you may know, this project has been developed and planned in close collaboration with our Lowell partners, including the Lowell Parks and Conservation Trust and Jane Calvin, who you heard from earlier, and the team at Mill City Grow. So I'm here representing all three of our organizations this evening. Over the last several years, our three organizations in close partnership with our design and engineering team have conducted a pretty extensive community engagement process to hear from the residents of Lowell about what they would like to see happen at this property. That process included hundreds of residents, sessions in four different languages, listening sessions, focus groups, through all of that process we had kind of four guiding principles emerge including the importance of outdoor education and recreation and interest in need in accessible outdoor experiences that are suitable for folks of all ages and abilities, an interest in food access, healthy food access, both growing food and being able to purchase fresh produce, and a commitment to ecological stewardship and sustainability best practices. This is what we heard from the citizens of Lowell about what they'd like to see happen at Pawtucket Farm, and this has been the guiding principles for our entire planning process. And you can see those principles, I think, reflected in the framework plan up on the screen now, which includes space at Pawtucket Farm for community gardens, an active one-acre farm, which is already growing garlic and other produce, an education center, including classroom space for outdoor education, summer camps, and visitor center, as well as a farm stand where people can purchase produce. an outdoor classroom for educational programming, and then a whole network of accessible trails. We've been working on implementing this plan over the past several years. The first phase included acquiring the property. The second phase, which we're currently in, has included the construction of those accessible trails, which have been open since late 2024 and been being enjoyed by residents and neighbors. and the outdoor classroom, which is currently under construction and will be completed this year. What brings us to the planning board today is phase three, which includes the parking lot that you mentioned, as well as construction of the education center. So we'll be talking about those elements in a bit more detail. Just to refresh everybody's memory, this is an over 20 acre property on Varnum Ave. See located in the aerial photo here. And as I mentioned, the key kind of elements that we're here for today include the education center and farm stand, what we call the farm support building, which is really a sort of barn structure that houses infrastructure for Mill City Grows, including places to wash produce, pack and store produce. for sale at the farm stand, and then the parking area and trails and community gardens. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to our engineering team to talk you through kind of the details of those elements.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi, good evening. My name is Katie Flynn. I'm with Heisel Flynn Architects. Our firm is part of the design team, and we are designing the education center and the farm support building. This is just a brief snapshot of what we're hoping to accomplish on the site. To give you a little bit more context for why we're applying for the parking and what we're trying to do, this is the education center. It includes a small farm stand where the community agriculture can sell the things that they've been growing on site, two small classrooms for educational purposes, a lobby, public bathrooms, and office space for the partner team. It's a building that's really meant to recede into the landscape. It's a really beautiful site, and we are trying to create have a building that's as compact and humble and low slung as possible to really celebrate the ecology that we're all here for. The farm support building is a small structure that Liz just mentioned, and its purpose is to support Mill City Grows agricultural activities. So it's a very simple structure that includes space for the farmers to wash and pack the produce that they've grown to store their tools. And it'll house a small cold and cool storage room to keep things fresh. So these are the kind of small humble structures that will be on the site that support the various programming that happens at Pawtucket Farm.

Hello, good evening. I'm John Hoodland with Niche Engineering. So I'm going to be discussing the sediment and erosion control and stormwater plans. So first off, I want to note that we have received approval from the Conservation Commission because we are within the jurisdictional area of the 100-foot and 50-foot buffer. So we have to pay special attention to the sediment and erosion control. And it is noted the contractor will submit for a NPDES permit prior to construction because it's over one acre. For stormwater management, we did receive comments from the engineering division. So I spoke with Gordon Bergeon today. We're gonna set up a meeting with them on Wednesday or Thursday. These are minor comments in general. It was more or less wondering where the SOAR line connected to within the public access. Our survey currently does not extend into that public way, so our survey will be extended and we're gonna have that connection location noted. Also, that was pretty much the gist of his comments. Besides, we're gonna submit for a stormwater permit prior to construction as well. So to give you a brief rundown of the stormwater that we're, stormwater BMPs we're implementing, we're implementing three infiltration basins, two infiltration swales, one subsurface infiltration system. And this is all gonna be conveyed to the existing pond on the south.

Good evening, my name is Radhika Mohan. I'm senior landscape architect with Agency Landscape and Planning and part of the design team. So in support of Mass Audubon and Mill City Grows educational program, we have a parking lot that has 38 spaces. It's a one-way in at the southern end of the lot with a one-way out at the northern end of the lot. The parking lot has two ADA spaces and eight EV spaces, and they're all standard size spaces with a 24 feet drive aisle to support driving within the parking lot. Bus drop off for larger groups that may get dropped off at the visitor center occurs at the northern end of the parking lot. and it can also support fire truck access as well. The parking lot is set a couple of feet below the existing Barnum Avenue road, so that combined with all of the storm water planting that occurs in the swale adjacent to the parking lot will help screen the parking lot over time. If there are specific questions regarding the parking and transportation access, we also have our traffic consultant here as well. I think that's the extent of our presentation today. Thank you.

Thank you. At this time, I'll turn it over to the public. Anybody here this evening want to speak in favor of this project? Anybody in favor? In favor? In favor? Hearing any. Anybody in opposition? In opposition? In opposition? Hearing none. I'll turn it over to the board members.

Mr. Chairman, if I may?

Sure, Mr. Fichette.

So first of all, I want to go on the record as I'm just delighted when I saw that Mass Audubon had gotten involved in this project, and so I used to be the chair of the neighborhood group in Patekaville, and the Patekaville Master Plan from 21 years ago was concerned about the agricultural designation on this property, when that was going to expire, what was going to happen to it. I was also involved in planned residential development that was behind the property that was owned by Mr. Perrin at the time, and There was some issue with open space back there. And so there was some real concern of what was gonna happen with the site. Not to mention I used to get my Christmas trees there. So it really is nice. I walked around this weekend on the path over there. I hadn't really been to the site since they took it over. And it's just so thrilling. I spend a lot of time up at Great Brook, up in Carlisle. And so to see something like this happening with the site is really fantastic. And the fact that you have a pond to irrigate and everything else is just super on the site. The architecture, I can see a little bit of Frank Lloyd right in there, you know, trying to blend into the landscape and low profile. And so I think all of that is just delighted to see. I did have a question because even when we were getting our Christmas trees, I just, it's awful. You mentioned how the elevation of the parking areas below Vaughn Amav, from a drainage perspective, I think you think it's a good thing. But when you exit that, that's just awful pulling out of there. So I'm just curious, is that elevation, I couldn't tell from the plans, is that, is there something being done with that elevation? Because it's pretty drastic trying to pull out of there. And you're kind of up like this and you're looking at both sides of Vaughn Amav. So I'm just curious of how that's being addressed in any way.

I guess not.

Yeah, you do. Yeah, when you pull out, you're up at an angle.

So as seen on the screen, and I know it's pretty hard to see, but we actually extended the contours out. The drive is extended. Prior, the drive was kind of condensed, so the grade changed at a dramatic rate. Now it's, I think it's 4% or even less than that for the actual driveway grade going into the parking lot. so you are addressing that that grade right yeah so it's that you can see how extended the actual i see that yeah yep yeah yeah because right now you're right i mean it's just yeah you you're right up there so all right extended you can really taper that bring it out okay

I know the traffic engineer didn't have any comments about it, but I couldn't tell if it was actually being addressed within the plans. All right, good. Thank you. And then they did have, I believe, so there was a question on... on the comment memo from dpd i guess on page three second paragraph from the top um it says please clarify whether the applicant intends to design and construct an ada compliant sidewalk along the property frontage and demonstrate how the existing tree will accommodate be accommodated so

Yes. So the design intent there is to preserve the existing tree. We're in the process of getting survey information about the location and size of it so that we can accurately place it in the drawing. And then we will make sure to have minimum ADA clearance for the sidewalk beyond that. But the intent is to preserve the tree and work around it, sort of in a typical urban street tree condition.

okay so we make that as a condition because that's what you're looking to do at least you're looking into that yes all right and then i i you know i usually try to stick with i think it's more than 10 parking spots we have an island but given the nature of of the site and 20 acres of of of the farmland and trying to accommodate as much parking as possible. And the trees that you have at the back of the site, I'm comfortable with what you're proposing here. So I'm looking forward to produce being sold over there.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Caleb, any question, comment?

Yeah, I also want to note one thing is that they are going to use, I think, more gravel on the side beyond the parking area. So I mean, I think that's also, instead of, let me see. The walking area is stone dust, right?

Yes, we have parts of the, let me just flip to the materials plan, one second. Okay. So we have a concrete sidewalk up to the ADA parking spaces, and this would be sort of direct access to the building. And then further south, we have a more informal stone dust pathway that would connect the parking spaces back to the farm support building. Got it.

Yeah, I just want to add to Member Frechette's comment. It's like, yeah, I mean, with the island thing, I mean, they're making it more conservational minded. I think that's not a... That's not a... I don't want to throw more traffic questions at you, but I wonder, do you have plans to receive school buses? And I know it doesn't seem like there's any parking space large enough, so how would that be accommodated?

Good evening. Robert Michaud, managing principal of MDM Transportation Consultants, part of the design team. The sizing of the parking lot really is a reflection of the type of programming they anticipate, which is going to comprise, to a large degree, say, school groups that want to go through the educational programs that would be available. That's the reason that you see the school bus drop-off area. And we also note that the site is actually immediately adjacent to an LRTA bus route. And to that, to speak to that, this proponent has actually opted to provide a new pedestrian crossing of Varnum so that there's a connection from a pedestrian perspective on both sides of the street. LRTA bus stops will be located at that crossing location so that it provides really a very viable alternative means of getting to the site. with something other than an automobile. Audubon has many facilities throughout the Commonwealth, as you're aware. Their typical parking supply is in the 30 to 40 vehicle space level that would be sufficient to accommodate the typical employee and volunteer type load, as well as the occasional passive recreational opportunities that are on the site. So the larger groups essentially are bus related. There are alternative means here and, you know, based on its own experience at other similar facilities, is very comfortable with that level of parking for this particular site. Thank you.

I don't have other questions. Danny?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't get a chance to go over to Pawtuckerville that often. I know Jerry's over there, so I do my best to avoid it. But going over to visit God's country every once in a while, it's nice. Got to travel over the Rock Bridge. A pleasure. Looking forward to the new one. It was great to see the site. I was surprised by how much work had already been done on the site to improve the site. I actually made note to make it a point to walk the area. I didn't get a chance last night because I was trying to get to the other sites. But I really like what's being done here. I was surprised. Only by the fact that we're putting pavement in and most of the places that I've gone to that that have something like this are generally gravel. So I'm curious as to I'm just it's curiosity. I like the project and I want to vote for it. But I was just curious as to why pavement when I see like if you go to Great Brook Park, it's it's gravel or whatever.

Thank you for that question. One of the topics we talked about a lot was about operation and maintenance, and having a hard surface like concrete paving would be much easier over time for the three partners to maintain. So that really drove the decision to have this main section be concrete paving. But beyond that, there was discussion that yes, the remainder of that walkway down to the farm support could be a softer material like stone dust paving and still provide the functionality needed for Mill City Grows to be able to wash and pack their produce and wheel it up to the farm stand where most of the people would be coming in to purchase the produce. So functionality and usability and maintenance over time is really a big concern. And that's how we landed up with this configuration.

Thank you very much for your time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Lucia?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll just say that I like the fact that the driveway is going to have two one-way entrances and then one way to egress. I imagine that there's going to be appropriate signage directing traffic. okay um otherwise um just as all the other members i i love the project thank you thank you i love the project thank you

yeah i agree it's a great project um glad to see how it's being utilized up there um when i look at the parking lot area the main concerns i look at to see what the traffic engineer has and they have no problems at all usually the question would come up and what the sight lines might be you know from pulling in and pulling out but um traffic in here had no problems with those so i'm satisfied with it and uh i look forward to getting developed and moving along so i'm all in favor of it So, Jerry, we're going to let you make the motion on this one since you gave us an introduction on how much work you did up there.

That was a long time ago, Mr. Chairman, a long, long time ago.

Good to see you come a long way.

I think there's a lot of the people that are sitting here that deserve a lot of the credit of where it is right now. I just did a lot of work back then and prayed that there would be people that would want to preserve it the way it's being done at this moment. So with that, Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion to approve. uh the site plan with the following condition that the applicant shall use uv reflective seal coat on the paved areas of the pros parking lot and that the applicant will um that can be done is to preserve the mature tree at the location of the sidewalk that's being proposed. And I guess would work with DPD if in fact the tree needed to be removed. It does add something, I don't know if you could, I know it's conceptual right now, if it had to come down, if you could, in some way we talked about tree replacement but it may be a slightly better location than where it is uh but so that we still have something along that that uh that sidewalk i think would be helpful dylan does that condition make sense to you yes okay all right thank you thank you mr chairman

No condition about your Christmas tree? Yeah. The Christmas tree farm is gone, and that's fine. So we have a motion on the floor. Do we have a second? Second. Second by Mr. Tenza. All in favor say aye. Aye. Chair votes yes. Any opposition? Hearing none. Motion carries. Good luck, and thank you very much, everybody. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Okay. Okay, moving along on the agenda, do any of the board members have any items to address with the board?

Mr. Chairman, can I just give an update on the zoning audit committee? Sure. We are meeting Wednesday night, and we're going over some draft revisions to the dimensional table, as well as some other items as well. And that the committee, we did open the invitation to other board members. Caleb did come along to the neighborhood walk. which was great. We met at the Gallagher Terminal, and the idea was to walk that basically the high-rise district, but the MBTA district, the back central area was very congested. And quite frankly, First time walking it the way I did, I didn't realize how walkable it was. Before you knew it, we were right in the heart of back central, Hossford Square. And then we crossed, right, Dylan? I mean, we crossed what used to be the Lord Overpass for us, all the folks here on the board, to Clemente Park, and then back over. So it was really in the Hamilton Canal District. Yeah, we did stop by the courthouse. Yeah, the courthouse. So it was really, you know, the zoning consultant was along and other members of other boards and DPD staff. So looking forward to how this progresses. I do know people in other communities that are looking at zoning right now. And, you know, they even brought up the idea, the concept of, hey, why don't you walk the neighborhoods? There's a lot of value to that just to kind of see how development affects the neighborhoods and what the current development patterns are.

We noticed the projects that were approved are making progress as well.

Right, exactly. There was a report of progress on that, Mr. Chairman.

Okay, I have an update. I did speak with the Assistant City Manager and the DPD Director, Yobani. um is rose about the board members getting plans so um we discussed that the applicant could provide plans to us and the question would be i said i'll speak with the board members and see who wants plans or who's satisfied with getting the digital ones that they have now and the other question would come up would be um One, how we get the plan and two, what size we want them. So I said we could discuss it and I told her I'd get back to her. But she was all in favor of having the applicant give us the necessary plans that we feel we need to make comfortable decisions. Actually, I was reading my subdivision control board regulations quite a bit this weekend. Some of them mentioned different types of plans. I know Jerry has spoke with them. I could text about the size of plans and actually requirements for forms of defendant plans. Talk to you about different types of size of like the size of sheets shall be 9 and a half inches by 14 inches off 16 inches by 21 inches. According to the industry deed so I don't know I'm throwing that out as a conceptual number. And she said she was gonna speak with Dylan as well, and I told her we could work out. The main question would be, what size plans do we need for what size project? I told her I didn't think we needed Plans that we have a basic plot plan that we can print. We've all seen those before. They're one page. We can blow them up. We can read them. And we don't know what project is coming before us and how big it's going to be until it gets here. It's not like how big of a project. So something for us to consider. So I guess, and what size that'd be. And I know, like I say, Jerry's talked about what they can give. And I indicated how I know some of the applicants now don't mind giving. the larger plans to board members who may want them. So I think the first question would be, do we all want the plans or just a certain number of us? Are the other people, are you happy with them on your phones or your tablets or that nature? So the question would be, how many sets of plans? And number two, what size of plans? And then the third question would be, what size of a project do we need the plans for? Like I said, if it's one unit thing for something coming in, You know, we don't need it that big, but when we get the bigger projects, then obviously we need them, but we don't need the big whole full sheets. So it's a board members want to think that over. And like I said, your money said she won't just speak with me about it in the future. I told him we could speak with Dylan to get some ideas thrown around. So I guess the first question would be. Do we all want the plans? Are some people satisfied with reading them electronically? So I told her I'd take the toll on the board and see who wants the plans and who's satisfied just getting them electronically as we speak now. So. I prefer the set of plans. Jerry, you want a plan? Yeah, I prefer a set. You comfortable there?

Yeah, I will make do. You want the plans too? No, I think maybe on special circumstances. Like if I remember, for the... The 45 I want for Mark Lee plans to remember where we're on the meeting room, I think when there's mobile she's the next other and then you break up with a they have to be read together, I think that will be one special situation, but otherwise I think for more regular plans, I'm OK with that.

Lucy you like him using computer you want to pay for what would you like. OK. Okay. So, okay. And Danny, you prefer the plant I take it? Since you raised this question? Okay. Okay. Tal, what would you prefer? Do you matter? Paper. Paper? Okay. All right. So then the next question would be, what size do we want them at? I don't know what people would think about. Is it be like... The 9 1⁄2 by 14 work, or do we look for 16 by 21? I'm trying to figure out what...

I've used the 16 by 21 is really a nice size, depending upon what the plan is. I really like... The other one is more or less the legal size, which is what we print sometimes, and sometimes it's a little... Yeah, so that's why I pulled out the subdivision, mentioned it in the plan.

So when I was reading this, I'm thinking, ah, you have the starting point of something? And, you know, we can...

So next week... For the sizes, the two sizes we see most often are the 11 by 17 and the 18 by 24 now? 18 by 24, sure.

Yeah, the 18 by 24 would be the larger size. 18 by 24? Okay. That would be the larger size. Those are a little bit outdated sizes. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, this is the updated problem.

It was amended back in...

But I think the pages you're probably reading from, Mr. Chairman, go back to the 1990s. Yeah, probably.

I mean, you know, but they're in here, right? I mean, you know, like I see when it signs off, we have, you know, we had Aaron Klassen and Clark Richard Johnson. Yeah. Yeah. So it just goes back a ways. Yeah. So the next question will be, know what size plans we want them for um so i mean for projects um like let's start with the questions of what we did tonight i mean um like say for phoenix ave could we go something like with them 18 by 24 for something like that or do you want something bigger or smaller

So I think for an administrative perspective, I just put on my, you know, when you're in the trenches doing the work, for DPD to ask the applicant, I think they need to have clear instructions under what, is it for every, so in other words, if we say it's not for everything, how are we going to define, right, how are they going to know when they talk, right, exactly, so. I think it's hard to kind of pick and choose, unfortunately. I think it would just be, you know, set of plans. We want a set of plans. We don't have, you know, all the other documents come in a regular size, but a set of the plans, the site plan to be 18 by 24. It's the site plans that we're trying to read the details.

Yeah, and when I was talking with the assistant, I said, you know, We print all the other stuff. I mean, that's not the issue. It's just the basic plans. I mean, the application and all the other things that come after the fact that we print out.

Yeah, I just want the plans as well.

Especially sometimes, you know, if you're at the site and you have the plan and you're reading the comments, You can actually put it to use. Right.

Well, and not only, Mr. Chairman, I'll be honest, I go to lunch and I take the plans with me, right? And I sit and I have lunch and I, that's how I, you know, that's how I fit it into my schedule, right? So that's really what I do. So it would be helpful. I don't want the big plans, like I, you know, but I think this would be large enough so we can really make out what's there. Because I'll sit there at the table, you know, and I'm taking a picture of it so I can blow it up. And so, uh, you know, I look at it on, on, uh, uh, on the laptop as well, but I just, I would prefer, uh, I don't always have it with me. I don't always have access with it. And, but I mean, it's during my day job, like, you know, at lunch, I'm, I'm looking at this stuff. So it's handy for me. I like the 18 by 24. And that would request that of the applicant. I mean, I, I talk to people that, that, uh, in the business that work with other, other communities and the other communities tell them, this is what, this is what's required. This is what we want. and how many copies they provide. Plus, you want it electronically, obviously.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, staff wants electronically, right. But much easier for them. I get that, but, you know.

And for the public. I mean, it's great. I direct people to the site all the time, but I think just for review purposes, it would be helpful.

So then, discussion-wise, the question come up, I said, you know what, how do we get the plans? I said, well, Basically two choices, either we come pick them up or if the applicant could mail them to our home, one or the other. I said, what we've done in the past, and Mary's been very helpful for me, it's like when we've been meeting every two weeks, we already have the plans in house, so she'd bring me the plans the meeting before. So, for example, if they already have the plans for the next meeting, we can get them tonight and we have them for the next meeting. And then, especially within a two-week period, you pick them up, you know, and if they could, if they come here, I mean, if they want to send them there, the applicant does them, they want to mail them to our host. But obviously, we should make a decision on how that goes. That party will just double all months.

Yeah, for the next meeting, we should have it at this time.

So if we got it two weeks ahead of time.

Yeah.

And Dylan, if you have any comments, please feel free to speak up.

There is pretty limited storage space in DPD for 18 by 24. There's pretty limited storage space in DPD for 18 by 24 plans. I'm sure we can find a space, but it's just challenging.

Did you catch that?

So I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Oh, the space where you're going to put them all?

Well, I mean, I don't know. It'd be a stack this high. I don't know.

Find a space. Yeah, there it is.

What was that?

You say limit space, right?

You say... Yeah, I'm sure we can find a space. It's just hard to organize 18 by 24 plans in the area.

It would be very helpful to have it, you know, for this next meeting.

Yeah, bring them in, dump them on us, and let us take them, you know?

How would legal size be any different?

I mean, it's not... 11 by 17 is quite a bit smaller.

I know that, but I mean, it's...

Seeing these plans, especially when there's multiple sets, the difference between a one-page, the difference between like a five-page, 11 by 17, 18 by 24 is pretty dramatic. We can find a space for it if you'd like to do that. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, if we could get it to the meeting, you should have at the meeting before, right? I mean, based on the timeline that they have to, they have to file it.

There's possibilities that in times when on months with one meeting that we wouldn't have them the meeting before. There's a possibility maybe in future years. I don't think the calendar this year works out in that way. I think we would have had stuff, everything submitted for August would have been submitted already, but it's a possibility that the deadline may have not passed the meeting before.

You know, if you said they're available to come pick up, you know.

Yeah, because the submittal deadline for public hearings, like, for example, on the months that we have regular meetings would be like September 8th for the October 5th meeting and then September 21st for the October 19th meeting. So by the October 5th meeting, you should have the plans for the October 15th meeting, right? Based on the submittal deadline?

In general, yeah. Yes.

I mean, there would be some exceptions, I suspect, but yeah. And again, as even on the paperwork, it should be, I mean, when they get a package, this is what's expected, right? Seven physical copies of...

the site plans for uh planning board uh along fall uh accompanied by the electronic submission right by the applicant so the only question i'd have is if um four of us want all the plans i mean if caleb and lucy only want them once in a while how do we fine-tune that that's difficult you know

Honestly, I'm not that concerned. I think that if there was one where I was concerned, I would request them.

Yeah, I think that, I mean, if a staff can take special requests, I mean, we'll probably be ahead of time. It's almost easier to spot. And I feel like even the applicant, like have the intuition like last time they brought up was that because they know like um so so if if not i mean i can always blow it up with my you know in the tablet too so so i don't think i don't think uh our concerns will be should be a problem for you guys four sets 18 by 24 at least one hearing before yeah sounds fair yeah

Dylan, do you want me to speak with, follow up with you? Do you have money on that? Do you want to talk to her about that? I told her we'd obviously keep you in the loop.

No, I can follow up with her.

I'm sorry?

I can follow up with her.

Okay. And if she has any questions, give me a call. So basically, it'd be one, two, three, four sets of plans. Like I say, they can drop them off here. If we can get them in the meeting before, that'd be great. If they come in later, we have to come down and pick them up. And I'm like, I've done the password a couple times, you know. But yeah, as I said to her, the main thing is, it's not on you making the copies. We want the applicant to give them. And once she understood that, she was fine with it. She was like, yep, yep. Like I say, if you read for the thing tonight from... um one defender said that vision just said see the six copies of plans and closed you know and as jeffrey said a lot of the other plans when he talked to people at nemcog they do it both ways if the people want it electronically they go electronically if they want to copy the plant the applicant provides the copy of the plan um so we're not trying to put the extra burden on you just hopefully give us things that we can look at to make a more of an intelligent decision does take the burden off dpd from having to spend time and resources to make those yeah yeah and you know and then if yeah and then if we can get those plans if we can if they come in later something like that you can let us know but um yeah so basically if we could get one two three yeah fourth sets of plans 18 by 24. i mean like i said the smaller plans you know the plot plan something like that um you know when um like some of the ones that Matt Ham will give us. I like the color ones that he gives us that night. The color ones, they're nice. I mean, you can really see the landscaping. Yeah, you know, I like that color, you know? I can remember when we first got a color TV, right, Dan? It's still in the rabbit ears, but it was color.

One of the problematic things, though, and it hasn't happened often, and I think this was one of the evenings where Member Tanza had cut it out, but we've gotten plans where this the actual drawings of the site plan was was only about this big right so the sheet was this big but the draw that was that doesn't happen often but that was unusual but obviously that was that was difficult right so even when you printed it on legal size you'd

The paper was this big and the actual plan is this big that's that so we're going a little big with the 18 by 24 Right what we requested. Yeah. Yeah, okay So I'm nothing further if anybody else anything further if not we can entertain a motion to adjourn so moved Second all in favor. Aye. Aye Any opposition here with none motion carries. We have adjourned. Good night. Thank you everyone

Thank you.