Disability Commission - Regular Meeting

Um so first um up we would like to take this time and welcome Bill to our group and we are greatly appreciated of you joining us Bill. I think that you have a great perspective and I think you will truly add to our group. Um I don't know if anybody else has anything to say. Welcoming um Bill. Yeah, just Derek. I just want to say thanks also, Bill. I know uh we had talked about it for a little bit and uh just excited to see you here finally. So welcome. Thank you. It's an honor and privilege. Thank you. Have your weekend. Have a great weekend. You too,

George. Yeah, Bill. Uh welcome aboard. Um been somewhat of a little bit of a wait, but uh we finally get to see you. Thanks, George. Great to be here. Absolutely.

All right, so today is really um kind of a quick meeting. Um we only have a few things to go through. Um we um have the welcoming of Bill um and a quick update on the grant status. Um, so in talking with the state, they have everything that they need as far as our grant is concerned. The decisions on the grant will be hopefully early this fall. Um, I did talk with them at one point. They needed me to um reload our pox and wreck open um open me o open space that 350 page document that we have. They couldn't open it at one point. So they I had to upload that again and that was the only question that they had for us. Everything else they said looked good and that they would get back to us as soon as decisions had been made. Um as far as that is concerned. So I'm hoping to hear from them like they said early fall um when all the decisions are made. They had no other questions other than that. Um anybody have any questions about the grant process? Uh I do well I don't know if it's appropate here but I'm not familiar what the grant is. I don't know any Yeah. Yeah. Sorry little brief would be helpful. Yeah.

Yeah. Sorry if that makes more appropriate.

No no no. So we uh as a town have brought in the Collins group asking them to help us to actually get in line with what the state is requiring us to do by 2027. and they are going to work with us and they are going to look at all of our different our trails, our um different buildings, our sidewalks to make sure that they are ADA compliant. We're going to take a specific group. We're looking for about $70,000 in order for the Collins group to be able to do that. At one point, we had to match that dollar figure and now we do not. So, initially we had to have $35,000 in hand in order to do that. Now, the state will give us the entire amount, hopefully give us the entire amount. Um, but so we did all the research, um, sent all that to the college group. They gave us the proposal. We uploaded that and gave it to the state back in May. Um, and so now we're just waiting to hear from them to see um, whether they agree with us or don't agree with us. but they're the ones that say that we have to have all of this online and in line by 2027. So, we're trying to get it done ahead of schedule and hopefully be able to apply for more grants.

Fantastic. Great to hear. Thanks for sharing.

Okay. Absolutely. I just want to uh make comment with regards to u Diane uh untying efforts um with everything going on uh to get all that u into um the mass um commission there with regards to this grant. So, I'm really appreciate it uh with the time that she put in on this uh getting this thing together and finally getting it in there. Although, we tried to uh have it uh chef ready. So when it come time to submit um we was able to submit it and there was a few things we needed to get uh taken care of but uh she finally got everything put together and got loaded up and sent it to them. So just want to thank her for

all that. Well, it was a it was if I must say, George, it was a joint effort by this entire group and you did a lot of work as well. And you know, the select board, you know, once we brought things to them, they as soon as we brought it to them, they approved everything that we brought to them and they didn't hesitate um to make sure that we could go forward. So, yeah, but you're the one that uh spearheaded into it. So, you know, yeah, you can't uh take that. We all may did pieces here and there, but uh who did the founder? You was the one that pushed it in there. So, thank you. Yeah, my pleasure.

My pleasure. Okay. Um the next item is the signage um that both um Bill, who is new, and Eric um are already working on. Um so, if you'd like to update us on that, I'll jump in real quick, Bill, if you don't mind. You want to start off? That'd be great.

Yeah, I'll um I'll offer this that uh you know a couple of years ago I had reached out to Jeff Dugan at Mass's office on disability about you know the idea of updating some of the outdated language on you know the accessible parking spaces uh the use of the word handicapped uh continuing and that sort of thing. And you know, I'll I'm almost ashamed to admit that uh when Jeff said um you know, it's a state level decision and it would you know, there were a few efforts at having it addressed in the past that you know, didn't really go anywhere, like I um given, you know, whatever priorities this commission has on our plate, right? like um I kind of was easily deterred and and I was excited earlier this week when Bill uh was able to give me a bit of a preview on some additional digging that he has done. So with that, Bill, I'm uh I'm happy to hand it to you.

Yeah. Um so actually I'll take a step back if I may just because I think it'll be helpful to share just why we are interested in addressing this. Um because I think many people I think many of you might know but a lot of people are not aware of the word handicapped and that it is offensive and why. So if I could just give a brief history of the term and where it comes from it actually originated in a 17th century gambling game in England um called hand and cap. Um it's a game where two players would exchange items of unequal value and a neutral judge would decide the difference in value. both players uh and the judge placed money in a cap and if they agreed on the terms the judge then kept the money hence hand and cap. It then later became adapted in the 19th century to horse racing um as you may be familiar with horse racing and also golf as well after that uh to refer to disadvantaged disadvantaged assigned to better performing horses. Um from there the term um expanded to refer to any disadvantaged or impaired person or imped impediment someone might face. And so then later as in the early 20th century uh the term became used to describe people, right? And so the word handcap was used to reference people with physical or mental impairments implying that the person had a disadvantage or limitation. And so this this understanding really is in line with the medical model model disability viewing the person as a defect rather than the environment. Right? And um I myself have I'm a pocker user um or have one and you know it's it's wonderful that there are spaces available for the disabled community but to have that language on there it's it's offensive. So I, you know, I talked to Eric years ago about, you know, maybe we could address this in town, you know, um, but as Jeff Dugan had had told us, it it is

a legal thing. And so that's what I'm going to share now is that it's actually currently a law. Um, let's see where pull my notes here. Sorry. Uh, yes. So, it is part of the Mass General law chapter 40 section 22A that states that um accessible parking signs should state handicap parking quote handicap parking special plate required unauthorized vehicles may be removed at owner's expense. So, as you probably know just from driving around different parking spaces, not only about half the spaces actually have the the required language. So there is a bit of a mix and I did reach out to the um Stephen at the uh um public works department to just ask about you know that I was interested in addressing this and he did tell me that they're currently the signs they're currently installing are just say reserve parking so they're they don't have that language so that's a good news um and he said he would assess the signs that do have the language just to get an inventory. So, um, and then I also reached out, um, actually what Eric and I followed up with Jeff Dugan, uh, to find out what's the status of it currently. Um, and he didn't really have any information, but he was going to look into see it. I didn't really hear back from him, so I did more research myself. And the good news is there is encouraging thing on this. There is a bill currently being considered by the legislature called Bill S1 137. It's the act dignifying individuals with intellectual or developmental disabilities. And so this act seeks to like others before it as Eric referenced. Um this one seeks to address the offensive language towards the disabled community in mass general laws. Refer handicapped is one of them. The Rword is the other. So we you know um and so I did some research to try to see if this bill actually addressed the specific thing. we're concerned about that item in chapter 40 regarding the

specific language on signage. Um, and I found out that it doesn't um, and but it does seek to change it. So what it is is they just in that chapter alone there's like I think 18 to 20 references the word the h word and so um, it seeks it actually I figured out it addresses all of them. Um, so anywhere that word appears in general law is addressed in this bill as far as I can tell. The problem there is that there's a typo. Um, so it's not offensive language, it's not appropriate. So the language they have right now in the current bill as it stands says to replace the word handicapped in that that particular line of the bill with the word disability. Um, the word disability isn't offensive, but it's not the right uh modality of the word and it's not the right word. It should be accessible parking. Um, accessible parking is a commonly used not only the right appropriate term, but it is used in a lot of signage even on our own town. If you go to the MBTA station in town, that's an example of appropriate language that says accessible. And so I shared I reached out to State Senator Altrich because they were the ones currently reviewing it in the Senate. Um I also reached out to RCRO, the um our representative as well as the governor's office. I did not hear from those others, but I did hear from luckily from Eldrich's office. Their team was very responsive. Um they just I guess it's currently it's being Let me just pull up what the page right says right now. Um the last thing was there was it was reprinted as an amendment. So there was in July 24th they reviewed the bill and made some amendments. They did not make the amendment we wanted there. Uh I had emailed them by then but they hadn't like processed and looked through my what I had shared. But since the 24th, uh was it was last week, I I did hear back from David from the uh senator's team acknowledging my email that oh gosh, you're right. This is a mistake and I will bring that up with the senator. So um I did get validation of

my concern. Um I shared with them, you know, in detail as to why and and showed examples of signs that have the perfect language and um so I don't I reached out again to see if there was an update on what's next steps and if the senator had considered it, but I haven't heard back. So, I'll I'll have more to share, I guess, in the future, but encouraging sign that and it looks like it's it was unanimously approved the amendment. So, it's looked like it's moving forward and could actually be passed. Um, and so, and it and if nothing else, we're getting that h word out of there.

So, hopefully we'll So, this is encouraging so that once that happens, then we can work, you know, uh, in town to try to get the signage, you know, removed or taken away. And for me, I think this is more than just, you know, having language on signs that's offensive to those of us that use the signs. It really is about getting that word out of cultural, you know, use and language because they're on the signs everywhere, it's just so omniresent, people feel this comfort, it it validates the word and allows it to be used. And so when I'm

nearly every time when somebody says something to me that's offensive and inappropriate or calling, you know, that really trying to insult me, they always use that h word for whatever reason. So it is a particular sting. Um so if we could it would be a huge victory let's say if this could happen and because since I mean it wasn't in this has been the thing thing that this disability rights activists and the movement has been pushing for since the 199 early 1990s if not before that you know the ADA doesn't have that language in it intentionally. Right. Right.

If I could if I could just add to the the thing that's exciting about what Bill just shared to me is that, you know, what I was originally perceiving from, you know, a couple years ago when when uh Jeff replied to me was, you know, basically starting at square one, like, you know, as Bill uncovered here, like we're not starting at square one. Like, you know, this this thing is much further along and it's actually got a real chance of of making a difference here. So that that was an exciting part of that update. Oh, hugely this. I I don't even know I mean this is my first I knew nothing about

government really. Uh this is my first take at it today, right? Um so I I I learned a lot through the process and it was it was actually a difficult process to figure out where how do I learn about a bill? What's in the bill? Um and I do see that there were other attempts in looking at the history that did that did fail. But it would be I don't even know what the process is, but I can only imagine the the effort and years of work that the whoever brought this bill forward did. Right. I'm sure. Which is

my question. Go ahead. Go ahead, George. It's it's amazing that um you you hear about this bill about the handicap here and out of all my years and and being on this committee here, I've never heard anyone bring up anything about the word handicap being official. Well, you heard you heard me bring it up a couple years ago, George. Yeah, but I'm saying the people, not you, the people

that uh are handicapped and people that use it. I've never ever heard anybody bring up anything about the word handicap. I think sometime people get lost on things that to me is not so significant. To me, I think that we should be concentrating on providing for the people with disabilities the services that they are rightfully do to be as ordinary as a ordinary citizen without any disability. That's where I'm at. I don't get hung up on the phonetic of words here with regards how foot it goes back. I mean there are some people that you know they they strive to you know want to change these things. It's like u uh it it remind me of uh the the federal government uh want to change the name of military bases and so forth and so on and things that are there. I mean that's history and we can't live with history it seemed like with some things but anyway that's my

yeah if I could respond to that um I I'm not surprised you hadn't heard that I it's actually in talking to disabled community about language um I do a lot of public speaking around this stuff uh a lot of people aren't aware and you know when I first you know my I've been disabled my whole life but I didn't identify it or until I was legally considered legally blind in 2018 and so I first went does that mean I'm handicapped? So it was a journey for me to get to the understanding that word. Um and if you look at the history if you I don't want to go too far into it but the history of the the disability rights movement um early in the in the 20th century that was that use was term was adopted by that group you know people fighting for civil rights right um but later people realize what the term really means and it is it is degrading it's very othering um and I think language is more important than people realize because the way we speak about cult pe identities um shapes how we think about them and it shapes how we support and provide all the other things you're talking about that the community needs, right? And so it really starts there and um you know it's that's the areas I'm really passionate about and I think it's important. Now I can understand there's much more offensive words and languages and you know handicap might be the number one on people's lists but it is it is something that's very present everywhere and it can be easily addressed and could have a huge impact. Um, and so my what I think could be greater than it anything else from this is how it could this could have a ripple effect for our the community at large in understanding like if people just know that this just hearing that this word is offensive for the first time will get them thinking about how that the relationship with the disabled community and understanding people with disabilities I think a lot can go a long way honestly

and it's very similar George to how you know I I know in the disability rights movement like you all of the isms that we hear about like racism and sexism and like very few people are familiar with the concept of abbleism and that is something that you know I think falls within our purview in this commission as well is is helping and if it isn't I'm leaving the commission immediately because that's that's the that's that's the most important thing we could address. Um and abbleism in involves physical spaces too. It's it's everywhere. Um, and it's so accepted in our culture, abbleism, that it isn't considered normal. And so I could go on for

most people don't even realize it's a problem. Like most people still have no idea it's a problem. It's like where you know sex, you know, sexism or racism, like where they were decades ago is still where abbleism is, you know. Exactly. That's a great point. And just just in the blind community, the word the way the word blind is used for as a term for offensive terms for obliviousness and other things, it's just so embedded people don't care. you know, it's it's it can't be offensive. It is. And if I you know, if I were to bring it up to certain individuals, they would get very defensive and say, "How could it be?" Even though it it is, right? So, uh the culture and thinking that can change. And and then all of a sudden,

you know, I'm I'm comfortable with my disability. I'm I'm okay with progressively going blind and all the challenges that go with that. The physical things not be able to drive. It sucks, but that I can deal with. What I can't deal with is how people treat me in public. That is difficult. And so if anything can be do address that, that is the greatest thing for all of our well-beings and lives going forward.

And all that being said, and not to undo any of that, but you know, also recognizing, you know, to George's point, that this is a small committee, a volunteer group of people that are, you know, coming together to, you know, try and help uh our constituents within our community. So, we've got, you know, only so much bandwidth. So, I mean, being intentional about the projects that we're focused on and prioritizing accordingly, but also, you know, another nice thing about this bill that already exists and is further along than any of us knew, I think is exciting. So, yeah, I I'll be honest because if it wasn't, I I I would say like I'd be agreeing with George, maybe this isn't worth our time creating a bill, right? And that's probably why it hasn't happened the last 35 years, right?

Don't don't misconrue what I say, okay? Okay. I I I I'm not saying it's not important. I'm just telling you out of my lifetime. Mhm.

And my time has been on the disability commission. I am a 30-year veteran and I'm 100% disabled. But the fact is that uh there are things that some people really get into and I look at different things. I look at this committee being a committee a a a service to me is probably the most important thing to me is that we can provide the service for the people that needs it and for them to be able to function sort of kind of as ordinary people without any disability. So service to me is the name of the game. Uh there's other things that people u have compassion by. Listen, I don't knock anybody. They want to work on it, do it. That's fine. I'm just saying where I come from and where I've been and what I've seen. I have not seen the I have not seen where that there's been um talk about that because I guess uh uh I've been around a lot of disability people. I go to the veteran to the VA so we always talking about uh things with regards to this or that. So, it's not like I haven't been around people that have uh disabilities. It's just that I've never known anybody to really just come up and make a issue about something about signage is just my

concept as to what I haven't seen. Let me put it that way. I feel like what you're articulating too, George, is just ensuring like this commission ensuring equitable experiences for all Littleton residents regardless of their disability status, right? Yeah. And I that's I think that's why I want to join the commission. I'm really interested in the holistic aspect of supporting uh not just ramps for buildings, but everything that supports our our individuals with disabilities, right? Yeah.

Okay. All right. So, I have a quick question. So, the town's changing our signs. Is that not legal in regards? Well, I don't think we should be chain I don't think we should be changing any signs until we have the authority to do so. Yeah. If there if there if there new signs, they will issue a directive and state that this is now being replaced and you probably can get the signs from the state

at a at a small cost because years ago on this disability, uh, I went throughout the entire town of Littleton and cited all parking and the number of spaces in according with the regulation as to what signage that they should had and what number of spaces that they should have had and so forth and so on. and we order signs. And at one time, uh, DPW was holding the signs for her and they would place, uh, signs in place at certain business and so forth because instead of the business uh, not doing it, the town had enough money there that we went ahead and bought the signing signage and said that we will put it up at at no cost because we wanted to have the space. But they had to mark the spaces that was uh in a parking toller and that they had to give us whatever the number of u uh van spaces versus uh uh regular uh parking spaces. And I did that for the entire time, the entire town. To include I went to our farm stands as well and told them that they needed to have the ability to um let people with handicap, you know, enter into the facility and uh by, you know, whether they was walking or whether they was in a wheelchair. and they had to have at least uh one space which would be for van or either a regular car to park there at. So I I did that back years ago there

with the town because the farm stands were not were actually not picked up in our u regulation with regards to u being able to have accessibility for them to get into these stands and so forth. All right. I think we have to wait for the if this law is this close to passing then let's see what it goes with that and then that'll give us a much better position and if it doesn't pass then we can discuss what to do there. Okay.

And George if if you're interested in learning more about language and all that I I can recommend the book. There's a great book that I recommend to everybody who wants to just a starter to it called Demystifying Disability. What to know what to say and how to be an ally by Emily Lada. Um I can share that link with you later if you're interested. But um anyone when people are trying to understand language and etiquette, how to be an ally, I always refer that one. It's a great starting point. All right. Thank you.

Yeah. Okay. So, um today we have um a visitor with us. Uh Rob Rouse is here. Um and he would uh we told him I told him that we would give him five minutes to share with us um what he would like to do as far as um asking for our support regarding the school. Rob, well I I I thought we I think we should given about four minutes and 53 seconds. Okay. Thanks. The floor is yours.

Okay. So, first I want to welcome Bill. I I feel very fortunate, Bill, that my paths have crossed with yours and I'm very excited to see you on this group. I think this group can be very very effective and is effective and it's really my belief in this group being effective as to why I'm here today. Uh because I want your involvement with regard to the Shaker Lane School. Um, I I feel pretty strongly that as I've been getting involved in the building proposal that I'm not confident that there's enough uh interaction um despite the many years that they've been working the process, I'm not satisfied that their connections with existing groups whether it's disability commission, park and recck commission, sustainability committee, I'm not convinced that there's been adequate engagement between the various groups that I as a resident rely on and I appreciate all you volunteers and everything that you do. Um so it's with that that I I just want to speak to you today and appreciate the opportunity. Uh I think it's unfortunate that the MSBA process takes 7 years. We've they've been working on this school proposal since 2018. I think it's unfortunate that this Littleton school was not allowed to get in the program when they first requested it before 2018 and the process takes this long a period of time and I don't want it any further delayed. I think that there are many elements um at Shaker Lane right now that are not ADA compliant. uh parking entrances,

doors, signs, uh toilet rooms, uh plumbing fixtures, a hydraulic lift. It just goes on and on. The playground, the surface, it just it's just phenomenal how inadequate that school is at the present time. And and to go on to your previous conversation, you know, the parking spaces there, say the word that you're talking about. uh they're all right there right for all young learners to see and start their own you know awareness of language and they're being exposed to that word it's it's bad needs to get replaced quickly I'm all for what I just heard I think the new school that's proposed has many great things extended learning dens with uh all kinds of space that does not exist currently in in order to address young learners, young kids, young students, uh to allow them the space and opportunities to work with specialists. And I think that um there's other aspects that a new school can bring. I went over to uh Grten's Florence Ro School and saw the playground and I was blown away by the rubber flooring, the open spaces, the not just ADA compliant accessible, but wheelchair accessible equipment in terms of spinners and teeter totter and open spaces. It's it's phenomenal what can be done um in today's world versus the building that began in 1962. Um so it's with that that I start my list for what I'm asking of you. I think

that your involvement and I would request it now, not later, but now I've asked the same thing of park and wreck and because if you're able, I think your perspectives, Bill, much like your perspective with regard to language, you folks see things. I see I'm about to get low battery, so let me change there. I apologize. I need to hook this up or else I'm going to be exiting out here momentarily. So, excuse me. Um, I think it's very unfortunate that um, people that are very capable and professional may not have the awareness that you folks have and therefore your input's necessary. Right now, they have a schematic design. I suspect that it's okay, but I also suspect that as they go into detail design, which will happen quickly after the yes vote, that's the time where you're critically needed for you to bring your awareness and your perspectives to the table. Um, so I would encourage you and I'll be happy to be a conduit if it's requested of me to get with the uh building committee for Shaker Lane or the school committee to broker conversations uh between you and get agreement now on what your involvement will be, the how and when. I I think that should be accomplished now. I don't want it to wait until, you know, after the vote and then just assume it's going to happen because I'm not I I I want I feel strongly it should happen with that. Um I'm also asking for you. I don't want to wait another 7 to 10 years. I I I I want this school. I don't

like what I see. I'm very much concerned with many different aspects, but certainly one of them is the um the lack of what I feel in the offensive aspects that exist in that building that need to be fixed a long time ago. And and I think you folks in your voice, I'm asking for your voice. I'm asking for you to vote as a disability commission to say we we want this now. We want it. Um, and should you need to take a separate vote, I want your vote, should you vote to say yes and endorse it, then I want to get the language to you of the article so that you can read the language, be familiar with it, and before September 22nd, take a vote to say yes, you will allow your name to be added into that town meeting report so that everybody else can see the disability commission line up with others to say, We want this now. So, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you today. Again, I thank you for what you do and um open to questions or I appreciate the opportunity just make my my my concerns and my request of you known.

Um open up to questions or concerns or just comments. Bill.

Um, I don't Well, I appreciate, first of all, I really appreciate you coming to us and and starting with the idea of bringing us into the fold to as to consult or advise or give feedback on the process. I think when I initially heard you started to speak, that was one of the first things I was thinking about. So, I appreciate that. As far as regard to whether I would support uh the building of the school, I don't know enough about it. Um, so I'd have to learn more about it. And so I' I'd be willing to take the time with you or whatever the process to understand it. Um I don't doubt because my my my both my kids are alums of Shaker Line School. It's been about eight years since they've been there, but even back then it was is definitely in need some issues there with ADA compliance and other things. And so a new school would, I would assume, address some of that. But, you know, when thinking about the disabled community and our needs overall, it's more than just uh accessible ramps and and access and classrooms that are more inclusive. It's also about the econ economic impact because the disabled community is affected by economic issues disproportionately higher than most, right? So, we have to think about all the things. What's it going to cost taxpayers? How much are we going to be involved? How much does our suggestions going to be a part of that? You know, all these things are things that I'm thinking about. So, I couldn't respond to that, but I am encouraged by it and I'd be willing to be a part of that process of advising and supporting uh the effort to at least in the design of this this project uh make sure they're ensuring they're doing the right things.

Eric,

yeah, I mean, I'll I'll echo Bill's uh support uh but also um you know, confess not not being um fully aware of of where things stand. I mean, one thing that that jumps to mind for me uh specifically with regard to uh the the new school is like I don't have a handle on where things stand in that process or like the you know in my day job like you know a big part of what we think about you know when it comes to accessibility is vendors like where are our vendors or in this case like where are the contractors the builders um uh where are they in terms of maturity around accessibility like are they aware of it the requirements are they you know adhering to you know the standards and things like that and so you know I I would like to know more about how a contractor you know is selected or vetted uh and you know you know taking in you know accessibility and kind of these these uh standards and laws into account as part of the process. I mean one thing that we say with regards to accessibility is like shift left and what that means is like the earlier the better the the sooner in the process you know either from you know the design phase or the even you know planning or or conception phase like the sooner you can have the accessibility conversations the better because you know going back and trying to correct things later on is so much more costly and and painful for everyone. So yeah, I'm I'm in support, but yeah, would like to better understand where things stand as well.

George.

Yeah. Well, I've been uh working on this uh situation trying to educate uh people here in Lton with regards that I have this uh straight talk show on LCTV. Uh I talk a lot about uh Shaker Lane and so forth and economic situations, the number of people that uh you know will be affected financially wise u you know and the cost uh I just thought spoke with the chairman of income and uh right now the school is at uh 98.1 million Um they are going to have a meeting on the 28th of um this month which is I mean uh next month which is the 2nd of September and they're supposed to give us a current picture of Shaker Lane school from a financial point of view and they believe that they're going to get a larger MSBA grant, which is now at they've been speaking about around $29.4 million. They're thinking that's going to be up and they're looking at the debt exclusion right now with what they have at hand is running about $8 and I think $47

for the average home here in Littleton that the taxes would go up. We're also at this point in time doing an assessment of the property under Prop 2 and a half. It's done every five and 10 years. So, I spoke with uh the chief assessor uh Wednesday and she's going to be getting the report in on the assessment uh the 29th of this month. and she told me to check back with her the first week of September and she can give us more information, can give me more information about certain questions that I had with regards to this. A lot of people did not know until I brought it out on my show and before the select board telling people that we're bailing out. And thank God, and I spoke to her yesterday, we only have one commercial property in the town of Littleton that had to be redistributed and that was with IBM. the $600 and some thousand dollars that they was collecting from IBM under the state law when they empty out of there. The town of Littleton is entitled to collect the amount that they assessed that which was at $600 and some dollars. We as taxpayers between commercial, industry and resident, we are paying that $600 and some thousand

to the town of Littleton for that property. It has not reached back to the $60 million is where that fee came in. So, the last couple years I think we've had $130 included in our tax. That is for the $650,000 that the town is entitled to collect. As far as the new school go under stature in the state on building new property, they have to conform to the ADA standards, which mean the architects know that they have to put in all this handicap stuff in terms of height for saints. the the the size of the bathroom, the bars, the toilets, uh everything, the the the the sidewalk, uh all that stuff. They they have to put all that in place in the new buildings. They know that. So we as a committee in my opinion do not have to endorse to say Bill and Shaker Lane school you need to make sure you put this in there because that is already in the mix. We don't have to do that. We don't have to tell them that. The building inspector will also make will also make sure that these things are in place and we get a chance as a committee to go out and inspect and find out if everything is in

there that's supposed to be and accordingly. So we do not really have to put an endorsement uh to the building process. Sure, I have some reservation about certain things which I talk about on my uh uh straight talk TV show, but uh for me to say yes, we as a committee need to go forth and and and tell the town you need to do this, I think that's unnecessary. We don't have to do that. that's already is inclusive in building new property in the state of Massachusetts. So, it's already covered under law and um that's where we are with regards to that.

Um else, Diane, or can I respond? Um, so I just want to say that as I know I'm on the disabilities commission, but people look at me as the town clerk. And so unfortunately I have to abstain from making any comments one way or the other because if I say that I will endorse or I won't endorse, people are going to say, "Oh, the town clerk said this or the town clerk said that." So unfortunately I have to abstain from it. But you, yes, you can comment back. Uh, Rob, we'll give you a couple more minutes. Yep.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Uh, I think first I'll certainly work Bill and Eric to address your uh comments with regard to data if you're open.

I'll be happy to send you material or I'll offer you up my my name number in order to try to speak offline. Um, I think I think you're similar to many other people that I'm speaking with who aren't uh fully knowledgeable and it's in that spirit that I offer that uh with again clearly I'm an advocate for it. Uh, George, so just let me know if you're open to that and I can route it through Diane. Um, George, with regard to your statements, I take a different approach. I've watched your straight talk presentations the last two and with regard to your what I think I heard was a confidence that if the building is created you don't have to be involved because you can be confident that the contractors will have requirement and building commissioner will have to ensure that it's ADA compliant etc. I would I would say this that the design detail phase that's coming up will allow you to have sway with regard to aspects of equipment that may not be articulated in those various what are the requirements and for example the playground area while it I'm sure it'll have the rubber surface I suspect that's ADA requirement but the aspect of open spaces and having wheelchair accessible I'm not certain that wheelchair accessible is necessary with regard to ADA and hence your voice is I think appropriate at that detailed design phase which is why I asked with regard to going stepping back and about you folks endorsing the vote you're making what I heard you say is when the building's constructed it'll be ADA compliant what I'm saying is your voice is absolutely critical right now

to say what exists at Shaker lane right now is not acceptable. And we need and we want as a disability commission, we want to inform you residents that it's time to get this done and we can have a new building which is ADA compliant. Much like you said, George, the only way we get that done is by saying yes. And if we defer and say no, we're looking at another 7 to 10 years after we say no before this vote of like you said, Steve is correct. August 27th, new numbers coming might be as much as 35 to $40 million coming to Littleton residents. And without it, we get no Shaker Lane building. So you as a disability commission in my opinion have a imperative need to make your voices known. Diane, I respect your position as town clerk. I don't want to be confused about that. I fully respect that. But as a disability commission, your voice needs to come through loud and clear. This is needed now, not 7 to 10 years from now. And with that, I I hope I've addressed the, you know, the statements that were made. And again, I offer up and if you could let Diane know because I'll be I'm putting in a lot of time and trying to do what I can to engage others like yourselves and other of Littleton's boards, committees, and commissions to get involved in order to get this done. I I uh first and foremost I respect everybody opinion irregardless where you stand at. But I have faith too and knowing that, you know, we just build the senior

center over there and we didn't uh endorse or say for the seniors, you're going to need to do this and that because we have seniors in different physical categories that will be coming to that building and uh they put in that building and built that building with stuff that's required under ADA and it passed the inspection and the AR tech engineers knew exactly what was what instant in the front they had to have that as a flat level area entry into that building because initially when they had it, they had granite curve that was going to go um across the front there. And they said, "No, we need this down flat with the surface because of wheelchairs and so forth and people with canes, crutches, and so forth." So I have faith that the architect engineers have built in to their system the things that is going to be required. I mean I I there's a there's a process where that the the building superintendent is going to inspect as they're going along. And we have talked to Diane and I have talked to the building inspector when he came on board and saw history about how

this commission operates and that we were involved in projects and we like to go along and inspect and make sure that the things that are done are done correctly. It just like uh what's the hall next door to u the town hall? What's that? Uh hey homestead.

The homestead homestead there. We did the same thing there and we went over and we inspect and and the building inspector before he gave him the occupancy permit. There was a gig list that they had to take care. So I do believe that that will be taken care of now where the shaker lane school condition now yeah there's a lot of things that going back you know many years ago a lot of things should have been done to shake a lane over there that wasn't done but with the new school food. I don't have any doubt that we will get the needed equipment in that building. It's going to serve for our special ed children and those that with uh any type of physical disability for heights and the width to turn the wheelchair around in the bathroom and so forth and so on. So I I me personally, I don't have any doubt that we're going to get that. And as a person on the commission, I don't see a need for me to vote and tell them to do what they already know that they have to do. I think the point that I need to stress is so I agree with you. The contractors will know what ADA, you know, elements need to be placed in the building. That's not my point. My point is you're the disability commission before you is a vote. If you don't vote yes and lend your voice, then your voice is silent on

the matter of are we going to do it now after 7 years of work or are we waiting 7 to 10 years before we allow that ADA compliant building with everything that as you just said it will be built to those standards and you may even be able to go more than just the standards through your involvement. You may able be able to get wheelchair accessible as opposed to just a lesser threshold if it exists of ADA compliant, but your silence is going to be heard on this matter and your voice if you endorse will be heard with regard to we need our residents of Littleton to have a better building. And unlike your reference to Center and Shadic Street, Center and Shadic Street didn't have a likely 35 to $440 million, you know, grant being available. You spoke grants earlier today. This is a 35 to40 million. Is the new Shaker Lane going to be built without the MSBA grant? Absolutely not. Will the toll taken as as Bill and Eric pointed out with regard to costs, will that have a devastating effect with Littleton taxpayers? It would. So therefore, there will be no Shaker Lane new building without a yes vote for 7 to 10 years. That's a decision that I'm coming as a resident looking to you, the disability commission, to get behind and to step up and speak to. And with that, I thank you for all the time you've given me. It's more than I expected. I hope I've been clear with the role that I believe you have the opportunity to be heard and your silence will also be noticed.

Okay. So, um, can I can I jump in or am I just cut out of this conversation? I had my hand raised for a long time here. Sorry. Yep.

Um, I I disagree completely with George. Um, I'm gonna make that stated. I I think that ADA I don't trust any building to be built pro not only just meeting ADA standards but you know that should be the floor the absolute floor um as far as considering access um I think the the sooner we get in in the process of any design in town of any building the better and if we can be invited I would be welcome any opportunity including this one um it's critical I'm a I come just for so people know my background is art and design I'm a designer this is you looking at things holistically beyond the woods, not the whole forest, not the trees, and assessing all the needs and things is something that that's my background and that's my interest, right? And so when I when I look at and assess buildings, it it's more than just does it have a ramp that you can actually get in. Is it designed in a way that's respectful to not only people with disabilities, but to everyone? Um, and it should and it's not something that's an afterthought. Sure, there's a lot of afterthoughts that can meet ADA standards. Uh, or just poorly designed things that meet ADA standards. Um, even just the shadow building, I've never been in it, but I tried walking around it to scope it out, and it's not accessible just walking around the building. So, I can say that building is it doesn't meet my standards, and I've never even been in it cuz it's locked. So, I I would say, you know, also I would say that it is dis discouraging to hear that, you know, the Shaker Lane School is not up to standards. And I think regardless of what happens with the school being built, that that should be something of focus for us to make sure that it is. Um, so that should just be a given that it meets that floor level I was talking about. But, you know, I I would be interested in hearing more about the financial aspects of all this, what it would cost and all those things, but then also what the posit potential gains are. Um, because when you're starting with a new design, you can get and we can put input in. I think there's potential to come up with some pretty creative solutions to things that could really benefit the classroom. not just getting access so you can actually physically maybe get in the classroom but actually an environment that's inclusive to to really productive

learning for everybody and feels comfortable. So if for students with disabilities it's not just about getting in there it's about feeling belong a sense of belonging and so if that's something that we can foster through the design and they as I think Eric made some really critical points about who the contracts are how willing they are to listen to our feedback and and take in our feedback. Um I've had little experience with this stuff being asked to advise on these things and sometimes it's not very wellreceived and so if that's the case I would certainly wouldn't endorse anything related to that. Right. So, okay. Madam, Madame Clerk, I want to state that

I have not since I've been on this committee endorsed anything with regard to include the library or any building that the town has built for the disability to go and recommend to the town, yes, you do this. So I am not one for this committee going and doing that because I have not had the opportunity to see anywhere that we have been involved and we had to go. Rob, you may be out trying to get votes for the school because that's what I'm hearing that you're saying the vote yes for the school. But I think the committee has a mission and I don't think that mission is for us to go and tell the town, "Yes, you need to do this."

Okay, I'll stop. Um, so, okay, Rob. Yeah. Okay. I I'll stop. I just like to I think your mission statement exactly says what I'm asking you to do. Okay. Okay. All right. Um, so at this point in time, um, uh, is it our wish to take a vote or do we because I I'm hearing you, Bill, and I'm hearing you, Eric, that you don't know enough about the project to take a vote. I have to abstain. And um, George has stated that he does not want to to to uh, support.

Yeah, I don't know enough. And I I I would want to consider George's point about whether it's even appropriate or not. I have to I have to take more time to look at all these. So, yeah. So, at this time, Rob, we're we're not going to take a vote because two members don't know enough about it and I have to abstain. And so, um, we will we we might consider it, you know, at our next meeting, but at this point in time, we can't take a vote to support or not support. But I we appreciate the fact that you came in, brought it forward, and um I know that you offered to have a conversation with both Eric and Bill offline. and um they may take you up on it, but thank you very much. Okay. All right.

Okay. Um and I believe um we just now need to um we can either schedule do the rest of our schedule for the next couple of months or we can just schedule next our next meeting for September. Um what does everybody we can we can schedule uh the next meeting for September if you wish. We were we following a second second Friday of the month at noon. Is that what we were following? We were Yeah, we were trying to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So the that would be the 19th. Does that work? Or is that cuz let's see. Wait a minute. So the actually the 5th the that would be the 12th. Sorry. We don't have nothing for early elections and nothing September. Okay. No. Same time, right? Noon, right? At 12th. 12 at noon. Does that work for everybody? Yeah. 12 usually work for me.

Okay. So, September 12th at noon. And do we want to continue doing just the second Friday unless it doesn't work for somebody? We can just do the second Friday of each month unless there's either a holiday or something in there or somebody has a issue. Well, Gary is is okay with it. Uh, I guess that's been working, but recently uh he's um been away a couple times there. Yeah, I know that second Friday usually has been working pretty good. Okay.

All right. So, we'll go with the second Friday at noon for the rest of this calendar year anyways. And then Okay. All right. So, I'll take a motion to adjurnn. Did we have the minutes? Uh, I forgot to put that on there. So, we can't Oh, okay. Sorry. We'll take them up next. We'll do two two months next time. Um, move to motion that you Okay, Eric, you make the motion. I'll second it. All right, George. Um, Bill, I third it. I don't know what the right term is here. No, just say I. I Eric I

and George I and I'm an I. We are adjourned at 104.