Conservation Commission - Regular Meeting

All right. So, I'm going to go ahead and officially open up September 2nd, 2025, Little Conservation Commission. It's now 7:30 and welcome to our first fall meeting now that summer is officially over. Um, Andrew, thank you for taking point with the last minute um for running that as host. Does um what I'd like to do first is go ahead and approve the minutes from August 19th. Does anyone have any um omissions, corrections, or comments on that?

I just have a very quick one. Under the discussion for Lakeshore Drive parcel U12-14-0, there was a sentence about halfway down. It says, "The commission tenatively scheduled a public hearing at the conservation commission meeting on September 23rd where the commission will inform the public about the issue, why the commission has decided to follow this path and the next steps forward. I would just make it the commission tenatively scheduled the public hearing at its next meeting or its meeting on September 23rd where um it will inform the public about the issue and why it has decided to follow this path. Is that different? Yeah.

Yeah. So it's just as opposed to saying like the commission the commission it's just the commission initially and then it and its Yep. Okay. Great. Does anyone else have any other edits? Okay. If not, do we have Would someone like to make a motion to approve the minutes from August 19th, 2025? I move we approve the minutes from the meeting of August 19, 2025. Great. Do we have a second? A second. Uh, but as amended. Oh, sorry. Yes. Thank you, Michael. Um, Andrew, would you like to do roll call for us? Absolutely. A roll call move.

Uh, Kyle. Oh, Kyle, I don't think we heard you. You're not muted. Kyle, Max, you live? Yeah, there we go. Perfect. Ed. Edai. Carl. Albert I Michael Michael Livingston I Sarah Sarah Seawward I and myself I it's unanimous.

Okay. Thank you. Does anyone have anything that they would like to add for administrative discussions for this evening? Okay. Before we get started I would like to make note that the 750 the continued public hearing notice of intent for 97 and 99 mil road has been postponed. So, if there's anyone um joining with that, just a FYI on that. Okay, let's go ahead and get started with land use permit um the request with the Long Lake Park owl prowel. Um Lauren, do you want to talk to us a little bit about that? Yeah, I just promoted Lori. Lori's here. Oh, great. Okay, so Lori, if you want to go ahead.

So, Lori, you're muted at the moment. If you want to unmute and introduce yourself, that would be great. Am I there? Yep, you're there. Thank you. Welcome. Would you like me to present some what I'm requesting? Yes, that would be great. And if you could just um introduce yourself and where you reside and just speak up just a little bit, that would be great.

Sure. Uh my name is Lori Nearing. I live in AR, Massachusetts. I go to church in Littleton um to the Unitarian Church. I offered a um program through a kind of an auction fundraiser thing that we do at church and it's to um offer I do I'm a naturalist. Um I work for Mass Ottabbon and a number of other organizations that I'm sure most of you have heard of. Um and I do owl programs, the nightwalks and owl programs. I actually have done it once before for the Littleton Conservation Trust not too long ago that I'm pretty sure was run by your u committee as well. Um, and so I was hoping to be able to have your permission to offer this program. It happens to be coming up on Saturday. Um, I do have a backup plan if you choose to deny it. Um, but it would be at Long Lake, the Long Lake Trails. I was there the other day to check out the trails and um, make sure it's going to be suitable for our our program. And it's I think 12 people have signed up. And I did say you have a rain date um Lori for the 7th, correct? The next day.

Yes. Fantastic. Commissioners, any questions, comments? Uh Lori, were you planning on using the Harwood A entrance? Um yes. Okay. Do you know if everybody's planning to park in the the lot right there or if they're planning to do if you've got 12 people? Yeah, I was going to ask them to carpool as best as they can. Um, and if there needs to be overflow, I I don't know if it'd be a problem to park in the church parking lot that's right there, but we could possibly park along the street if there was a need for that. I don't think we'll have trouble fitting everybody.

Yeah, I suppose you could probably maybe ask the church. Doesn't hurt, I suppose. But yeah, hopefully you won't have to resort to on street parking because that corner can be nasty. Yeah. Yeah, we would prefer obviously to not park in the street. And are you planning to do like the the full loop or just a a portion of the the loop?

We we don't go that far because we're going to be traveling walking in the dark. Mostly it's starts at 7:00 um and it'll end about 9 depending on whether or not we hear anything. We'll stay to the main trails, the ones that are wider. Um, and we try to walk without flashlights. And a lot of that depends on if we have a moon or full full a full moon or um any stars. And the weather's looking like it might be cloudy. So, Oh, flashlights.

We did see an owl when we were there before. Um, and it wasn't before it got dark out. It didn't hoot back to us. It just um stood pretty still on a branch. So, that was cool. That's great. Okay. I was on one of the earlier ones she did in the same spot and they just basically they go up to the big field or we went up to the big field uh didn't go on the field and then turned around and came back. So good. Gotcha.

Okay, great. Anyone else have any other questions? Um if not, if someone would like to make a motion to approve. I'll make a motion that the commission approve uh the Owl Prowl uh land use permit for Saturday. Second. I'll second. Great. Right. Roll call vote. Uh Michael Michael say I Kyle. Oh, Kyle, I think your audio may have cut out again. Thumbs up. Can you hear me now? Kyle Maxfield. There we go. Edai. Carl. Tomberg I Sarah Sarah Seawword I

myself I it's unanimous great best of success Lori great thank you so much appreciate it thank you have a nice evening okay okay next on discussion Lakeshore Drive parcel U12-14-0

yeah so I just have a few updates on this um first town council did run the title on that parcel and confirm that there are no easements on the parcel that is held by the conservation commission. Um, so that's good. The next update is that we are planning to have a joint select board and conservation commission meeting at the September 8th select board meeting which is at 6:30 p.m. in person. Um, and we will need a quorum of conservation commissioners. So the question really is who can attend that meeting?

So we're holding a meeting. We're not on their agenda. They're actually having a special meeting with them. Um it is it is I think we are on the select board agenda for that. Those are two different things, right? We don't necessarily need quorum, do we? If we're just on their agenda, we can just hopefully have a couple people there to discuss. I can't make it. I'll be traveling. Um I that's a great question, Kyle. I have been told that we did need quorum and I know I can't be there. I spoke with Chase. He can be there. So, um, and we do have to make a decision tonight because it would be posted tomorrow. So, um, I feel bad. I pushed for it to keep moving forward, but you can't get out of this work trip. So,

right. Um, so I guess if we could have a show of hands who could go and so Lauren, you said it's so it's next Monday at 6:30, correct? I can make it work. I could possibly make and I'm not sure yet. I'm kind of in that wavy gravy possible category, but could maybe make something work if it came down to a quorum issue. Yeah. So, Lauren, I think you basically only have three

that are a Yes. Um, so perhaps, and let's have this discussion now because Kyle brought up a good point. If we don't have to have quorum, then yes, put it on. Um, but yeah, we're not going to be guaranteed of doing that. Yeah.

If it were the next selectman's meeting, would we would folks have an easier time of of um attending primarily because there's more time calendarwise? Well, I think what we're trying to do, and this is my understanding, Lauren, you you were there at that meeting, is that we're trying to come up with um a potential path forward for that if things do need to be removed, we want to be able to have it notified, have a public hearing, and get this all done this fall before, you know, the water the water becomes too cold or inclement to pull things out

when people leave town, right? That was why we pushed. That's why we pushed early. some respect for the residents that might leave town. So gosh, I guess with your permission, let's let's go ahead and try and make it go. But I think Lauren to just let them know that we're we're three confirmed and two one or two may. Yeah. So is that are we okay with that? That works. Okay. Is that all right, Lauren? Yeah, I will confirm if that we do need forum. Okay, great. Let's carry on. Yep.

The only other thing was basically based off of that meeting, the public hearing could then be at the following at the concom meeting on October 7th or 21st. Um, but Tim and I thought it would be best to wait until that select board meeting to to finalize the date.

Correct. Okay. I'm wondering too um I know a lot of times the select board will um sometimes have a um a virtual option for certain members of you know uh boards, committees, consultants to actually pop in. I don't know if that would constitute a quorum though. Um but we can just see if there's something that actually has to be voted on by us. I was I I would think a quorum would be needed. But if it's just merely presenting information to the select board, maybe we don't even really need a quorum to be present. But

yeah, that was what I was saying, Andrew. I thought this was more of a discussion, right? I I didn't I don't I guess I don't see what there would be to vote on unless because we've already kind of made the decision that it has to happen, right? It's not it's not something that needs to be voted on. So So I'm a little confused um by this whole core issue. So it sounds as if and correct me if I'm wrong sounds as if that'll be a discussion and then going forward at our next meeting it would be validated through quorum right and that's when you would notify the public and everybody correct but obviously have open uh open discussion with that okay

because would we have to do that if we're at the select board do we if we're opening a meeting. Do we have to notify the abutters for that the public hearing portion? But but if you're telling me that we need quorum at the select board, that tells me that we're opening a meeting, right? We would have to post a meeting like we did tonight, but it it wouldn't be the official public hearing notice like with the butter notification and all that good stuff, but it would merely just be an agenda of ours that would need to be posted. Okay. Lauren, I can check into this with you too tomorrow just to see.

Okay, that would be great. Thank you, Andrew. Okay, next is discussion. No horse trails at Williams. Lauren, you had a us up to date on that. Yeah, I can bring you up to date unless you want to correct me if I'm going out of line. If you want to switch to the 745, we'll carry on with another discussion. Okay. So yeah, um it was brought to our attention that some areas of the Williams Land Trails have been damaged by horses. And I will share my screen show you. Okay. So can you see my screen?

Yeah. So this is the Williams land. Um so over here is New Town Hill. Um there are three primary areas of damage. There's a boardwalk on this orange trail um that a board is broken and um we think all of these areas are are just damaged a little bit by by horse horse use. So how do you what make what makes you think that? Um and the reason I'm asking is horses cannot walk on the boardwalks. They will get hurt. It's too slippery. So why do you think horses broke that?

So I I don't feel fully comfortable answering that. It was brought to our attention that it was thought that that was a horse. We know these are used by horses. All right, keep going. Um yeah, so that boardwalk, you're right. We don't have we don't have great evidence that it was a horse. We think that is a possibility. Keep going. the wetter areas. There's two areas here on the blue trail and a very much smaller one on the on the yellow trail that are are wet and um you can see kind of horse footprints in it. Um that it's just made it very pitted

um and a little bit harder to walk as the trail dries. So, at this point, we're we're just looking for feedback on potentially creating some upland sections of the trails um that could get around the wetter section and then potentially thinking about restricting access just on those those upland sections um to horses and mountain biking activity to prevent further damage. Okay. And Lauren, you were you were out two weeks ago? I was out, yeah, about two weeks ago and and saw the damaged boardwalk and then hit it.

Okay. So, I walked the property quite a bit, but not recently. So, I was out today and walked all of the trails. Um, the board that's broken has been broken for quite some time, and I agree with Ed. I very much doubt a horse did that. Um, what I observed today was that there was very little evidence of any erosion um on the Yellow Trail. Um, I was happy to see that there's been some mowing because the poison ivy is intense there. Um, there have not been many people going through the very thick brush going through. I know I had to put my hands above my head to get through the the main walk through. Um, I did note, and I don't have my pictures to share, that when we talk about horses, we also need to talk about mountain bikes as well. Um, so I only saw one or two areas that horses had been there. I agree that there are sections of the blue that should be kind of noted for um a temporary restriction for horses to get by and for bicycles to get by during the a wet period. Um, what I'd like to see is that there's a conversation with the stakeholders such as the people that ride bikes or the horses that are there to try and have others involved versus us just saying this is your off on the blue trail because there are spaces there that can be navigated, horseback, bicycles and and such. So, um I want to make sure that we're bringing it is very vegetated in the beginning. So, there's not many people going on that front section right now. But, um that's where I would rather see have the commissioners go out and really walk it, look with your own eyes to see if you see erosion and kind of look where you might want to address time periods of year where it could be

wet and you want them. There is one um one bridge area on the blue that the horses are having to skirt around but that has been happening since the trail was established. If I might add also there um you know the the one the horses have been walking these trails for 50 years so this is not something new but two there are the I am aware of two wet or potentially wet areas um and they might be the same ones you guys are thinking one kind of goes down and come back comes back out and the other one you just kind of go across it um but the Well, as you said, there's not a lot of traffic on on the on these trails. Um the the beginning part when we went out the other day, I actually got stuck big time by the sticker bushes that were there. So, uh but um the horses create very little damage to the trails. Um you know, we stay on the trail. So, uh and the other question I would ask, if we were going to try to to restrict, how would we enforce it? We've talked about this before with signs at other uh um conservation properties and and we've always asked the question, how would you enforce it? And so, and I'm not saying, you know, people are going to go out and, you know, obviously uh be jerks and everything, but I wouldn't want to put something in place we couldn't enforce because it just defeats the purpose of putting something in place. But overall, you know, I think if you, as you have, Sarah, if you walk those trails, um, I think you'll find that the horses stay on the trails. Now, the deer, on the other hand, they don't. We we we flushed a big buck the other day. Um, so, um, yeah,

I guess I I just want to make sure that we bring all the stakeholders in, but it was noticeable, um, mountain bike traffic as well. And so, we just want to make sure that we're looking at things equally. Um, commissioners, have any questions on this or thoughts?

Do we do we allow horses and mountain bikes on all of our trails? right now we're doing on all of them, but this one uh explicitly says uh for horses. It's it's called out in the uh on the website. And as I say, this one has had horses. A lot of our trails, they're just really not conducive to uh equestrian. Um maybe they are to bikes, but you know, and if you recall when we've talked about putting boardwalks on some of the wet areas of some of the trails, one of the things I've I've mentioned is making sure that we leave enough room on the side to for the horses to get by. And uh at least one of the bridges that's on I it might I'm not sure if it's the blue or the yellow trail cuz we kind of crisscross but um when they built the boardwalk all of their would you call it refu or you know the dirt and stuff they just kind of threw to the side and and it kind of does make can make it a little bit of a challenge getting by. So I you know just uh they're nice trails. I you know we want to keep them nice just like everybody else. So, and I'm sure the the mob bike people would feel the same way.

So, I I guess I would encourage because this is obviously a discussion that if we can carry this discussion forward and in the meantime to ask the commissioners when they have an opportunity to just go for a walk. It doesn't take long, but please do not wear shorts in there. Oh, yeah. For sure. Are we okay with that? Sounds like a plan.

Okay. All right, let's go ahead. It is now 7:51. Let's go ahead to our continued public hearing for 745 abbreviated notice of resource area. So, this is D uh 204-1023 known as 550 King Street. This is a delineation. Um, you will see the memorandum from Green that was submitted. Um, who is here that would like to speak? I see Dave, you're here.

Uh, Sarah. Hi members of the commission. Um this is uh this is the second uh hearing we've had in this matter of the ANRAD. Um we were waiting on peer review. Uh we received that peer review I think a week ago and um it looks like they concurred with our delineation. Um I think the big thing was uh there was wetland A and B and we had um qualified that wetland B was isolated and it looks like the peerreview letter reviewed it and concurs with us that that it is in fact isolated. Um and I think the only discrepancies that they found was there were two flags that they asked us to shift about 10 feet. Um, since we have the re the peer review letter, we've been able to go out there and um, we survey located the two cited flags and we've revised the plan. We haven't submitted it yet. Um, I'm just waiting to get a stamp on it, but we we do have those flags located. Um, and with that, it was uh, yeah, no, overall it was a good peerreview letter and um, I'm here to see if we can't close tonight and basically ask any begging questions of the commission.

Okay, Dave, that's good to hear. I thought the letter was well written. And so for those of you um the acknowledgement of uh shifting 10 ft south in the identified area is on the last paragraph of page 104 submitted um from green. So I thought it was well well written and I'm pleased to hear that you both concur with that. Uh commissioners, any questions? I was just wondering if it has a material change in, you know, where things are in relationship to the boundaries. I really couldn't tell from the uh drawings.

Dave or Gary, do you want to answer that? Oh, sure. Well, I'm I'm I guess I'm failing to understand the question specifically like where the Sorry, Mike. Michael, it's okay. I I probably wasn't clear. It does it move the uh 50 and 100 foot um boundaries uh in such a way that it affects the the work that's being done. I I couldn't see that from the drawings. If I could uh if I could share screen, I could actually show you the the the location of the two revised flags. Yeah, that'd be great. Yep.

And uh Okay. Uh share. Uhhuh. share. [Music] I could have All right. Oh, I do. I have it here. All right. Uhoh. Share screen. All right. So, you should see the site plan and this would have been on I think sheet three of this plan set which here it is. Sorry. So these these were the two flags that that bumped out previously. Um flag A119 went straight across and connected to 18. Um the peer reviewers added two flags that just show that there is a drag out in this area. Um well, one of the things I will have to ask our our surveys to do is not only show those revisions, but I don't see the associated 100 foot and uh buffer zone plotted on this. That should be on the plan. So, but I will make sure that the the associated buffer zone does jog out, but again, um they they this is an area of the parking lot that they're not working in right now. And um I don't have a a tape tie, but uh this this I believe is a distance greater than 100 ft. So that buffer zone line is somewhere in here and it it's going to remain in here even as projected from these flags here in this direction. So these were the two revisions, but this is an inactive area of the park. Um, so I hope that answers your question, but I will get those. And before um my plan would be if if you guys would entertain closing tonight and voting to issue the ORAD, it would be contingent upon receipt of the revised site plan showing these two flags and the

associated setback and buffer zones projected. And Dave, you're referencing that as A119 and A120, correct? Yes. Okay. Yep. Commissioner. Yep. Go ahead. No, that's that's it. I was just checking our other plan seats to see if the I don't know why the the buffer zone wasn't on any of these. So, I I have to have them stamp it anyway. I'll have them turn on the the the um the set the local setback the 100 foot buffer zone and then um resment the plan. Do we typically approve a plan that's not complete?

So Ed, I was just going to point that out. I mean, I'm fine with everything that's been said, but I know a couple of meetings ago um we did kind of look back on a previous decision to um approve a plan and it kind of bit us um if you recall. Um so I mean Dave, I think everything is great here. I just um um I kind of agree with Ed that perhaps we should have the finalized plan before we can give you the official official approval.

That's fine. Yeah. No, I I think this is relatively I don't know what you're I I I obviously understand a commission's uh uh maintaining consistency amongst all applicants so that everyone's treated the same way. Um, I didn't know if there was work entailed in the other site plan that you had and if that that kind of affected the permit, but with an ORAD, I mean, this is minor. What I would ask, even if you don't if you if you because I understand that you guys wouldn't have the ORAD in hand tonight, if if I could submit this uh in the next day or two, I'll just have them add the plan, send it back into the conservation commission. Um, I would ask if you guys would have the OraD drafted maybe for the next hearing and then uh if you do need me to just come in for a a official vote then and not tonight. I mean that's that's the minimal.

Any thoughts? How do you how do you feel about that? That works. Okay. Yep. That sounds good. So I think Tims up as long as Tim and Lauren are aware that that's what they're if we don't close. Oh yes, they are working on it. Well, because we didn't close it, they might not assume that they

So Dave, I think you understand that we're I think from our standpoint there is a a comfort level that I think we're good with. It's just that um trying to make sure that we have everything that's in and so with the thought that you would carry on and then everything would go smoothly at the next meeting in terms of being kind of stamped at that point. Great. Yeah, I think this hearing is more to to um I guess ensure that the commission doesn't have any other begging questions that require deliberation. And um I think we're in a good place that we could uh

we'll put the buffers on, send it in as early as tomorrow or or Thursday. And then uh again, just hope maybe we'll have the the ORAD uh drafted so that the next hearing it'll be a very simple um review of the revision and vote to close the hearing. You can vote the issue. Commissioners, everyone feel okay with that going forward? Yep. Not that we're voting on this. Sounds good. I don't I don't hear that we have any other questions for you, Dave. Okay. Okay. So, we will see you. So, Lauren will put him um the applicant on for the next meeting. Okay. All right. Thank you, Dave. Appreciate the time, everyone. Thank you. Thank you, Gary. Take care.

Goodbye. So, we're going to go back to administrative discussions. Mass wildlife coexisting with the black bears um November 6th. Lauren, can you bring us up to date on that?

Yeah, so I coordinated with uh Actton Conservation, Westford Conservation, and Littleton Conservation Trust to plan a presentation by Mass Wildlife on coexisting with black bears in Massachusetts. So Megan Crawford, who is the community engagement biologist at the Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Wildlife, will be present. This is going to be on Thursday, November 6th, so not for a while, from 7 to 8 in. Um, it will also be on Zoom. So, we just wanted to let you know I will be advertising it. You know, typical Littleton Way is on Facebook. Um, so hope you can attend or share widely.

And can that Lauren go on the town website in the conservation area, maybe even under board of health as well? Yeah, certainly. Okay. Yeah. Um, commissioners, do you think it's worth putting anything on the kiosks as well, letting people know, letting them know about the meeting or letting them know about about November 6th. [Music] I think it's probably be good to uh yeah, widely uh advertise it. Doesn't hurt. Anyone going to the hiking and stuff may or may not pay much attention to it, but

Okay. Westford Conservation Trust actually had I believe the same speaker about 10 years ago and like 80 people showed up. It was huge. Y and she just she just did the same presentation for Sbury Valley trustees two weeks ago I think or so. I don't know how well attended it was but but Lauren you said it will be hybrid. It will be hybrid. There is a hybrid option. Yes. Okay, that's great. Um, and as I had stated earlier when we opened the hearing, the 750 uh notice of intent for 97 and 99 mil has postponed. Um, I don't believe we have anything past that discussion with Mass Wildlife. Correct.

Correct. Okay. It's 802. If someone would like to make a um motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. Second. I'll second. All right. Final roll call. Michael Michael Livingston. I Ed. Edi. Sarah. Sarah Seawward. I Kyle. I Carl. Carl Milberg. I myself. I. It's unanimous. We're adjourned. Great. Thank you everyone. Have a good week everybody.