Affordable Housing Trust Fund Board of Trustees - Regular Meeting

today is Tuesday March 4th this is a special meeting of the affordable housing trust um at 6:30 p.m. and we do have a quorum this evening with um Sue um Maryann Matthew Bartlett Mark and myself um so let's go ahead and get started good to see everyone Amy um thank you so much for being here this evening um on our agenda we have just two items um the first one is to uh talk about any applications for the um minig Grant um and review them and vote if necessary but we don't necessarily have an application but we do have a question um that was posed um by Amy and team and so I wanted to make sure to get all the input from trustees before we go ahead and kind of formalize that um Marin would you like to explain the situation um I'll start and then Amy will step in and correct what I said wrong um we have a household um and the um home is in the name of a trust rather than the name of the householders uh the um so new news to me today was I went back and at the looked at the registry and this there was a a trust this trust was created in 1982 so it's not a new situation same homeowner or same residents have been in this home um since at least that time yeah they they built the home themselves to be precise um this is not an uncommon situation um amongst those that are as your Aging in place um you want to protect some of your assets in the event that you go into a nursing

home so it makes you ineligible for certain things such as the um a different um Master law exemptions that you can get through the exess assessor's office but um I'm hoping that we can still work with this family in this instance I'm not sure how it was written or if this would be an issue for the grant that's my hope is that we can still work with them so we just wanted to clarify whether you know they're still owner occupied they own the home this was a a something that they had put in place to protect some of their Assets in the event that they did end up in a nursing home and um they still pay all their taxes and everything this is still their residence but it's to protect some of their Assets in the event that they went into a nursing home I mean do they meet all the other criteria Ami and everything else is in place this would be the only deviation would be that the home is owned by a trust and is it in their children's name or is it's an irrevocable trust in the in with the children yes so could you just clarify you said that the house is owned by the trust but that they but then you said do they they pay the mortgage in the taxes there's no mortgage on the home it's fully paid off this is but they maintain and handle everything for the this this home okay um independently they pay their taxes this was a what they had done as a precautionary measure in the event that one of them ended up in a nursing home so I guess from a purely mercenary point of view since they pay their taxes in town we should give them this money um right like I like that's where the money came from and that's what it's for I I don't um I I can see this as a

slippery slope where there could be trusts where this is not an appropriate use of the money but it sounds like to me I would be okay with this I agree I agree too so I think where I come out on this is that I'm okay with it as well I'm I'm familiar with this process of of the trust but I would stipulate that um it needs to be occupied um by the owner and that it's not a rental it is not yeah and I think that those two stipulations can either be added in if folks agree to that or um that's something that we need to make sure of because having a home and a trust is actually quite common in Massachusetts not in other states but it is common here and so from that standpoint given what you've said Amy about um this particular situation it it seems like it it still fits it does for any future trust that the household that that this is supporting is owner occupied and not a rental any thoughts folks on that isn't the owner occupied part of the requirements to begin with of for the for just getting this grant it is it is the only reason I got nervous is just because it was a it was named in a trust so typically in certain situations you'll see homeowners where they don't have this set up already um or they have it set up where it's um like them owning the property and then it it being the beneficiaries being named in the event of a passing this one is an irrevocable trust which is a little bit different but they still own occupy the home pay all of the property taxes pay everything and maintaining the home and all of that this was just to protect some of the

assets and the events the one went into the dressing hle yeah okay so do we have a motion to approve this could I ask what is the loan for um they're exploring um putting in a chairlift so that they can access their bedroom instead of living off of the couch okay thank you do we have a do we have is there a a grant number or a loan number or anything that we can identify this as I believe they're still working through the application process this question just arose and there was a meeting can we run it please they didn't want to apply if they weren't going to be eligible for the so we don't need a mo we don't need a motion tonight because there's nothing in front of us okay it was just a motion to be able to say that um a trust is going to be eligible if they are um owner OCC if the home is owner occupied and not a rental yeah so the I just want to add that the beneficiaries are other family members which this is uh well the the owners are the beneficiaries they're the seniors who are living in the home they're not the they're not the beneficiaries of the trust right someone else has to be they're the beneficiaries are the children yeah yeah so they own and OCC the the the couple owns and occupies the home pays all of the maintenance and property taxes the but the um the children are named as the beneficiaries they are not named in the deed so Bartlett are you saying that for any time there's a trust if we want to vote on it that the that the family family members have to be the beneficiaries of the trust in this in the case of of giving a uh this money to a an owner a house owner that has a trust

um no I'm not saying any time that I'm just I mean I have no I have no problem with with a trust within a family I just don't want to I mean as you said a slippery slope it could go um you know I don't know what the other alternatives are but I'm I'm perfectly content with this I think that we should um determine that we will you know that that the trust is not an issue in this case for us yeah whether we need to vote on that or not I don't know but Marin do we need to vote on this or I between I think we've heard enough um direction from the board and have an understanding of what it is you're looking for if there's any another situation that we need clarification on we'll certainly bring that forward and we'll know how to address situations similar to this one appreciate the input thank you Amy thank you so much for raising this and bringing it to our attention through Marin not a problem thank you for having me righty thank you all right so moving on to our next order of business it is to discuss the um RFP questions that um Laura um and shelle from MHP uh sent to us as uh they said they would at our last meeting okay so I just now promoted Laura and Shelly to panelists I see them they they are joining us fully now terrific Laura Shelly welcome so much uh to to our meeting this evening and um thank you as well for the questions that you sent yeah sorry sorry to jump in Linda Stein is um here as well would you like

me to promote her uh yes please thank you okay thank you um so Laura and Shelly I I want wanted to um introduce you to one of our trustees who was not here at the last meeting um Matthew I'm Matthew hi mat I'm sorry I missed the last meeting I had my my calendar invite on the wrong day oh I have no one to blame but myself yep it happens and um Linda Stein is joining us as well from the um historical commission town and then I wanted to um give an apology to minin as during our last meeting I realized after the fact that I had not officially introduced minin to you Laura because it sounded like you had not known maren beforehand so hopefully you've had a chance I think we've met before we've crossed paths thank you okay and of course you know Shelly so all right so with that said um Laura how would you like to proceed because you gave us a list of questions and would you want to just start at the top yeah yeah do you want me to lead it do you want to sure I think that will be good for a a pace that that way questions can be answered directly sounds good um so I'm sure as you as you saw some of them you will be able to answer some of them it's too early and and some of them are you might need more information so the first question was around housing tenure um ownership or rental special population and typically we you know like to see this um influence by any needs assessments that you've done um or it could just be location and and the site you're dealing with um so I think I

heard things last time on either ownership or rental um but I thought you were leading towards ownership but I will let you speak Els so I I think based off of what um what you had mentioned you had some sta either statistics or information that said out in the marketplace what units are ownership versus rental based off of um how the projects are are being funded and developed could you share that again sure so um there really is very limited funding for home ownership units um there's permitting um special permitting that you could do but as far as subsidizing the units there is um very little so it um it does make it hard to do it unless it's something like you know a nonprofit that um that's their business um um but even then someone you know they still need to find some funds they usually Cobble together some local funds to try and make it work so it it is difficult there's a lot more uh funding available for rental housing most of them um you have to have a minimum of eight units um to access and those are from the start from the state um the majority of them are from the state um and those range um per unit um typically they they will the hlc hlc is

a state agency for housing and livable communities um they will um provide $100,000 per unit for a rental unit sometimes a little more especially if it's a smaller project um they usually need a little bit more than that so um that's kind what's there so I thought that with this information from from you Laura and others about the funding I thought we were leaning towards rental yes too um and I'm sorry just so I'm 100% clear you're talking about funding for the home for the the renters or homeowners to purchase the place not construction it's construction it's development subsidies and then that brings down the cost okay so it's much easier to build rental units than units for purchase it is right now yes and to get interest from developers I guess when they can get that that kind of subsidy right small projects is still hard to make work but yeah it it does if you can layer a couple together um you can make it work okay and then um the next up was um are you looking to change the zoning um I actually don't know what the underlying zoning is so I probably should start there um is what you're considering a allowed into zoning or will you need to change zoning or look to a friendly 40b so I'll jump in on that the zoning is um residents are would not be allow

the that layout wouldn't would not be allowed um and I would lean towards um a friendly 40b if if I were guiding the permitting on this okay that's helpful um that's typically what we see um especially when the it's not like you're going to rezone a district and so um that's very common um and I was wondering about that given that it is residential there um uh as we mentioned before up up the street some of our MBTA uh housing is um zoned you know couple blocks away from there um so I'm a little I guess I would say concerned just because I haven't lived in Littleton when the the original 40b came through town and that caused a lot of trauma um calling it a friendly 40b I suppose is is better easier but I think if folks hear that word it might you know set off some some triggers for folks um is there any other option other than a friendly 40b you could res the town could reone the area it's um frowned upon to rezone just one parcel right right because that's hot zoning and right is not lawful um well even though it's done sometimes right right and and and I get that piece of it so um I think one of the the other question questions I had to confirm with all of the trustees is on the question above it talked about special populations I don't think we're talking about special populations but we just

said families is everybody on board with families right so we're not talking seniors okay as it was if it was going to be seniors then we have a senior apartment bylaw um but um but since we're not going there I guess friendly forb it is well we could certainly think about seniors um or I mean we could look could we look into um adding our five acres to the multif family Zone that's across the tracks um across the tracks and up the street um yeah you could um and then the other um potential direction would be a quote senior res residential development um special permit from the planning board and asking the planning board to wave the uh any age restriction the planning board has the ability to do that and has done that at um the Weber Village so adding adding to the MBTA District wouldn't help you because MBTA law says that you are limited to the 10 or 20% affordable units anyway right so going to have fewer affordable no you you can always do develop more affordable the minimum in the bylaw is 10% I thought the state the state I thought the zoning says minimum of 10% you can always develop it with something different just can't require it can't require it in the zoning correct and I just want to remind everyone that if it's if the housing is is not age restricted seniors can still still apply income qualified seniors can still apply and live in that it's just that it it doesn't exclude people who are not right

60 62 above so let me just say this um I may be overstating the concern about calling this a friendly 40b um most of you all have lived here longer than I have so if you know would you say let's just not worry about it and go go with it I think it's a concern I mean not be the end it may not be a deal breaker but I think it's something we'll have to pay attention to maybe in the communications and how it's communicated okay right I mean if that becomes the the only viable way to do it this is such a small project it's not you know 100 units or something it's really just a permitting tool because your zoning doesn't allow it on its own so it's really just a permitting tool and I think if you lead with that that it's this is this is the path to permit something that you support as a community right right and that's good language thank you Shelly yeah and in the uh request for proposals it will just have what the underlying zoning is and then say um you know we expect you'll have to um you know find find a a path to the perming um you know what um I'm obviously a big supporter of 40b because um it does bring affordable housing throughout the state um and and I you know definitely advise communities to use it to your advantage it can be a great tool for the town to use if you can't get zoning changes for a whole you know for a district um it's how multif family is done outside of cities and and with a

friendly you get somebody who's on your side to work with you that to work with the town well with a you know a friendly 40b can be pretty much anything but most um put that label on a a local initiative uh program 40b and that's only if there there aren't tax credits this isn't big enough for tax credits so this one would probably fit in a local initiative 40b and in that the board of selectman has to sign the um the application so it shows the town has is supporting it obviously the town the trust is providing the uh the land and and will have put an RFP out and selected um a developer based on the criteria you have so you're already starting with Town support or bringing that you know it should be um supported by the bard of Selectmen and then uh that that helps bring it over and Nick if there's any sticking points um it's usually discovered before the board of selectman sign off on it and we happen to have two select board members here Matthew and Mark oh and Ju Just to extend um Laura's point a little bit the select board would sign the application the com comprehensive permit application that goes to or local Initiative Program application that goes to the zoning board of appeals goes to the state goes they appro the lip application goes to the state because they're the subsidizing agency oh okay thank you for the clarification that that helps that's right so they get the um project eligibility letter from the state but only after the B lman has signed the application and then it comes back to the

zba great okay at that point it comes back to the zoning board of appeals or uh final DEC for the yeah the state does a doesn't do the full um investigation that a that the zoning board does um they just give I call it the golden ticket a project El eligibility letter that then gives them um the authority to apply to the zba thank you you're welcome um affordability um you bought this with or you use CPA funds to purchase this land so we know that it has to be 100% at the maximum of 100% area median income um I don't know if you were anticipating um something deeper or more um obviously if it has to go 40b there has to be 25% at 80 Ami um and if you've talked about it if you have a um you know a feeling for what you're looking at or A needs assessment that would guide you we we don't have a A needs assessment that would guide us in terms of the levels of affordability but I think we've had in previous meetings like maybe back in December where we talked about how we would like to have you know as many affordable as possible and as deeply affordable as possible you in the question that says how specific do you

want to be I think this is one where I would say um we we could ask for um one or two units to be at 60% and maybe the rest at 80% do you have any guidance for us on that well the way that um the scoring goes is there's you know um criteria and then um what is not acceptable what is advantageous and what is highly advantageous so those are the three categories of scoring so typically you know um less than in because you use CPA funds anything less than 100% at 100% is unacceptable they that doesn't fit in what they could do what what you could allow them to do and then you could say something with deeper affordability for the advantageous and then for the um for the highly advantageous um I'll give you some examples of what others have done um units with a range of affordability um from 30% which is um really Project based section 8s um 30% to 80% or to 100% whatever you want to do and that gives a developer the chance to um you you know they know that they have to go deeper than um than 80 they know they can um well if things continue we don't know where the where section 8's going to go but assuming they can get some Project based a couple of Project based section 8s and they can

um use those to help um make the project work at lower income um and then go up to 80 or 100 whatever um you would want that's the way that a lot of communities um uh score um so there's like the unacceptable the acceptable would be 100% at 80 or you know you tell me but that's kind of um and then had the advantageous let's get deeper and we'll let you go up to 100 to offset those deep ones on a so that bring I don't see any way that that house can be done as an the existing house can be rehabbed as an affordable unit so how do we figure that into the equation or do we have to separate that out and sell it separately and then put that money back into the CPC or the other yeah exactly um I think that's what you know in looking at I haven't been out to the site yet but in looking at the um pictures and understanding the number of rooms in there um I don't think there's I think I you know I agree with you I think it would be very difficult to make that an affordable home um and you could subdivide it off and and then pay back the the portion that would be CPA so I think the um documents that we briefly touched on last time was uh something Linda had Acquired and that is the the listing of um criteria from the Westford application or the Westford RFP I should say so being able to follow something similar to that I think would be helpful

um trying to find it right now but so they had 60% Ami in that proposal um and how many units was that sorry do you know how many units that was um that that's where they divided up whether it was highly advantageous was the number of of um 60% units right so um the more 60% units the more advantageous it was I can look up the exact wording yeah it will be very difficult to do a majority of 60% units 60% units typically that's the that's the um standard for tax credit and you really need 28 to 30 units to do tax credits yeah they said 20 or more units at 60% is highly advantageous 15 to 19 at 60% was advantageous and so on so Bart let you have the floor well I was just wondering if me given the size of this unit could we say something like half of them at 80% % and half of them at 100% would that be able to get us to advantageous it won't be highly advantageous um why don't we put a pin in this and um between now and the next time we meet um I can do a little back of the envelope when we have some idea of how many units there's going to be I can do a feasibility uh back of the envelope and and then we can come in with some numbers so that we're not kind of

pulling from from the air what you know what we could do um or what a developer could do right that sounds very helpful thank you yeah all right all right building design um are you um obviously with the barn um that's going to um have to be have to be done to um respect the historic um aspects of it um but for the new construction um are you as I said the last time you can't be prescriptive um but you can do um design standards um or you can leave it you know fairly wide open um so in the last five years um there was work that was done around the Littleton station when we were still working through the whole development of that particular area across the street and planning board did have some design guidelines for that area that were created Mar and I don't know would those be acceptable in this situation or they would those be considered overly prescriptive um when those were drafted it was considering mixed use so I'm not sure they'd serve you very well in this case um for a residential small residential development yeah my thought was that you know we the Barn is going to get you know a bunch of Windows and some perhaps some Dormers but it's going to stay

looking like a barn um for the whatever new buildings um because it's across the street from you know a row of new is um you know four bedroomroom what they call Colonial around here um you know new houses um could we just say that that whatever new building they do should sort of be in that family of you know looking residential um that it it should look like it's you know at least trying to be part of the neighborhood right that it fits the character and you could and you could you you know you can put it make that into a two unit or a three unit depending on what we decide with the number of units in the septic system and stuff like that okay so complimentary to the neighborhood design yeah um so if the house is staying and it's going to be subdivided off do we know the Barn's going with the house or with the other property or are we just going to say everything I would say we have to sell the house by itself and leave keep the barn as part of ours because of the septic system the house has a septic system that if it were hooked up would be functional yeah but then they don't have any place to park because they'd be parking on their sub system no there would be I mean there's I think we're getting require I'm just saying no what I'm saying is I don't know that we're necess to us with their answers no they won't because we have to subdivide it before we can go to the development no and we have to decide so how we can't do if you already said we can't do 100% affordable with the house so we have to get the house out so that we can do 100% affordable but you won't be trans erring the property

until um until everything's been said and done it's easier I I would bet that that house um wouldn't have sufficient land to or Frontage they might have Frontage um to meet zoning no it does it does have Frontage and we could I mean there's a Wing on it that you I um it's I mean part of it is old but I think that could easily be converted into a garage um so I I don't think parking is going to be an issue I think I'm thinking of subdiv subdividing it off yeah but you if we go you know from we draw a line 15 ft from the end of the building that gives us the sidey yard and it gives us parking and it leaves some room for the Laura can you explain what you meant about how you would propose we go forward with this well yeah I mean I think that because the house doesn't lend itself to affordable housing um that um I would suggest subdividing it off but I think you can subdivide it when when the permitting is done for the other development it means holding on to it until that happens um unless there's a path for it there's enough it could meet zoning if you if you subdivided it off or I don't know whether Littleton does variances this might be question but is there a developer that would take the whole thing and um and do the affordable housing plus the rehabilitation of The Farmhouse

but if they took the well I guess it it I think the the sticking point is is going to be that you know you bought it with CPA G money okay CPA funds so it would have to be affordable okay I think that that's the issue and it can only be three bedrooms because of the okay makes sense um all right why don't we um so designed complimentary height limitations any height limitations only three stories three stories that's what the houses in the area would be okay yeah you'll see that it's a it's an interesting um situation because you have brand the brand new derky farm development sitting right behind it and across the street from it are you know $1.5 million homes so um and then you've got the antique home so have all that to work with right so in the um in the conceptual site plan that was part of the package that you sent with the application um it was showing one building for the additional units and right just asking the question that's what you're anticipating okay um well I think again

we want to be open to this it doesn't have to be one building if somebody comes in and says we we can create two separate buildings because that better meets our our vision or design and I I think we can accept that as well sure I think for for cost um one building is probably G to be what what you have um okay um amenities um is really um it's really too small to have a whole lot of amenities um you may be able to get a rental office just so if you know if um management has some way to to meet with people um and we may be able to I mean we're not going to do it but an archite architect may be able to fit something in the barn um and then I don't know if you want outdoor Program Space Storage you know those one of the lovely things about this site is that again it has a train station across the street and then there are um Trails off into the woods on the backside of of that major street so I think there are some natural amenities there and one that I wanted to mention is that we we make sure that there is um a walkway to the train station right now the site itself

sits on a very precariously curved Road and so being able to actually build out the sidewalk build out the walkway that allows people to safely cross that street I think would be a huge amenity not just for that that particular site but also for the rest of the derky development to take their lives into their hands as they're walking that windy little road so Bartlett do you know this this property actually back up to the the balam lane should we require a trail no it doesn't there's a the the border on that side is is a a narrow 40 or 50 foot width of conservation land separates our lot from the houses on Balsam okay so we couldn't actually get directly to the Balsam trail head um through the woods you could by skirting by going skirting the wetlands I think because the the houses stop and there's quite an area um as the ground drops off um towards Foster Street there's an area that is open and you could put a trail there so that would be a conversation with Kum then or okay yeah okay well that's good to know um interior or unit design any preferences or requirements um usually around laundry

facilities um fuel um a lot of all electric electric it will be all electric because there's no there's no gas in that neighborhood okay um I think the laundry facility should be based off the building so shared I think would be fine if anyone think [Music] otherwise Bartlett yeah I I guess that would be okay I mean we're talking about you know small number of units in each building so it should work yeah we and unless you're requiring something is usually best just to leave it you know yeah um and the all electric they'll figure that out um since we're talking about families what size would be or is kind of considered appropriate in an affordable unit well lip is about the only the local Initiative Program is the only one that has not the only one but that's that has standards um I think a two-bedroom is 800 square fet and a three bedroom is 900 Shelly do no I think it's one bedroom is 600 uh that's usually difficult to meet and then two bedroom is 800 and I think the three bedroom is 950 um which is small units those are very small units yeah um the 300 for a one-bedroom is is fine but the other two

means you have very little um storage space and um especially the kitchens are are you know not a lot of um storage um so usually they end up being um bigger than that um you know more like 850 for the two-bedroom and 1,00 for a three-bedroom um if we said a minimum of 800 square ft for a two-bedroom and a minimum of what do you think everyone a thousand for bedroom I think that sounds reasonable I'm just wondering if we're going to be prescriptive about the number of each units or if that's something that the will come back in the proposal because I think I know we said we wanted family and we do but if we also want to maximize the number of units um is it possible we might need some smaller ones as well probably you will um to maximize the number of units you would need to um usually they offset the three bedrooms so you average to sorry so if you typically you average two bedrooms so however many threes you have you have that many ones and then the rest is taken up by twos

um anybody have any other thoughts on bedroom size we can certainly say maximize the number of um units um to accommodate families that will accommodate families yeah I would rather um that these units average higher than two bedrooms um just because with what's going on elsewhere in town they're um an EXT orinary number of one bedroom units over being proposed at 550 so and I know they're not all affordable but here it seems like um it's closer to the train station it would be better to do families you know commuters and larger units and not not be in the same Market as the ones that are going in uptown I agree I don't know how the yeah can that get us to eight eight [Music] units they might be hard oh be all three families right or sorry all three bedrooms but um I think we also have to get to eight and so just so we're all on the same page make sure I understand this well so we're saying eight units Maryann because that tends to be kind of the threshold number for developers looking at projects is that what your thinking is that's what I was hearing yeah so and eight eight is the minimum for State funding right um so to get

a well we'll work on it okay I guess that's a question too if we have six right with the with the three bedrooms um would it be a feasible Project without State funding no it can't it can't support itself okay so we have to get to eat yeah that makes it easier okay yeah black and white is good [Music] yes um I don't think the site design I don't think there's probably much choice in where it's going to go um based on what I was looking at with between the um Wetland buffer and um and the easen on the front of the lot so um we can probably skip that one y um yeah do I don't know what that easement is I don't know if it's still valid but anyhow yeah yeah doesn't matter okay is that the water for Grimes Lane anyway doesn't matter you're right yeah I can look it up anyway there's there's an 8 inch Main in Grimes Lane okay um Energy Efficiency um do you have zero Net Zero preferred prer I several years ago I went to a a affordable housing development in I think it was in Dennis on the cape and it had it was Net Zero it was beautiful development um so it can be

done oh yeah we do um MHP finances um a lot of um Net Zero passive house um we actually give a discount on our on the permanent loan um if they have um certified um Net Zero or passive house or one of the other um platforms so right so that that's actually a possibility then great yes um so part of the scoring is usually how experienced the development team is um and there's kind of two different um thoughts on that one is we want the most experienced developer um with experience doing this type of of development and the other one the other train of thought is we want someone who is experienced in development but not necessarily has done something exactly like what we you know we need um because of the um renovation and and uh change of use for the for for the historic burn um I would advise it's that they have some experience in historic res you know restoration or yeah renovation um it's not something for the

fade someone with the fate of heart had never done it before um new construction is you know a lot easier that's what I'd advise but I'm obviously open to whatever you guys feel um they should what type of experience they should have I like the idea of some experience in historic renovation so that they can um work with what what's there any other thoughts I think that's going to be necessary y okay great um affordable housing management um there's so it's really just um making sure that they either have experience managing affordable housing and are um well versed in Fair Housing and compliance um or they have a team member or they're going to hire it uh hire management company to do it that has those uh that experience that's going to be necessary um it's just we will will um be explicit in the RFP that they need to have that experience or they need to buy that [Music] experience sounds good so no self-management unless they are certifi we have a we have a a a town housing authority that runs public housing is that a possible management agent for this kind of development it could be you just can't

dictate it right okay yeah but but a developer could reach out to the Housing Authority um for compliance they um the management side of it the um you know the day-to-day kind of things can be done by um self-manage if they've managed residential before it's really the compliance per piece okay are eligible um tenants um are the tenants eligible and the rents right um and and uh and are they you know being fair in the weight list and not skipping to get to someone that they know it happens uh and then [Music] um another scoring criteria is on the financial feasibility and how realistic the performer is that the developer will um will include in the um in The Proposal um so is there somebody in um in your group or in the town that can um review those fin financials um and if not if not we often just um get a consultant to help um because MHP does permanent rental financing um this would be really small for us to do but um just for the not to

have an appearance of um conflict of interest um even though we have the skills to do it we we don't do it if we um helped with the request for proposals um I I'm sorry go ahead no go ahead I was just going to say um I think back when when we first chatted there was the potential of um including Mass housing I I don't know if there's somebody who who we could connect with on something like this as well or through you obviously um I don't know they've kind of um I just heard they lost their staff that was doing um technical assistance and I think that they're not going to be doing it anymore but we that's a down the road thing um so we'll you know and then also I was going to say I know that Mark and I took a look at the financials from another project so I think we're both comfortable with financial stat ments and and looking at the math so to speak so and then if need be we could also include other appropriate boards whether it be somebody from our fincom or or some other group if if we felt that that was also appropriate yeah it for you know again these are really early performers so it's really just is it reasonable are they are they saying they're going to get you know a million dollars from the state when you know that's not realistic you know it wouldn't be realistic it I mean it might a million dollars might be realistic for this but um you know that's really it's it's kind of a smell test more than anything else okay sounds good um this is probably a good time I should have said it in the development experience

because um the Inspector General has ruled that um all parts of the proposals that come in are public public um we don't now ask for um business statements or um financial statements from uh the proposers because you won't get them they won't um they won't respond um so we ask for um Bank um references and then somebody calls and gets a reference um to and you can say are they you know would they if they have to put down so much Equity um say you know are they sufficiently finan you know funded that they could absorb putting this much Down based on the performer that they've put in so again we can get there I just wanted to be clear because we used to get um financials um in a sailed envelope and then they weren't public but um but now they are um land conveyance um are you going to uh sell the land or um are you thinking of a long-term ground lease or have you thought about it either why would we the I'm sorry what Mark why would we not convey the land yeah no I'm thinking about a deed I'm I'm I don't think I heard that why wouldn't you convey the land yes some communities and and housing authorities um don't like

to give up the land they think there's some greater control there really isn't a whole lot of control um but there some and um it's a 99e lease is considered the same as a conveyance so um it's it's just a um I think it just makes people feel like um they're not giving away the land there's some communities that might be politically strategic to do a land leas versus an outright conveyance so I think it just depends on some of the ICS of the Dynamics in Littleton yeah okay yeah um in either case are you looking to um recoup any funds U we paid $50 for it so oh yes this was a true donation okay well are you looking to um put money into the trust I mean I think most likely they would be asking you for some funds but um the price proposal used to be separate from scoring now it's part of the scoring um but you can say in the RFP you know you're expecting a nominal amount or something okay 50 bucks isn't enough for eight units yeah could be okay most most communities donate the land yeah you know um it's what you know helps make the

project work right um it also um helps when the developer is looking for funding from the state if the town is or the trust has contributed um the land um they look very favorably on that great because that's how I I think that's how I've been looking at this is that that's our our skin in the game the contribution along with what fun they were able to put forward yeah great um let's see where am I Review Committee um typically it's um the whole trust you can add or subtract people or change it to somebody else or that's up to you again you don't have to think about it yet or you can think about it but you don't have to make any you know hard decisions yet um who's going to review the proposals and we just talked about price so anything else what did I forget other questions or comments that um you feel we should talk about right now I'm gonna Channel I'm gonna Channel Angus right now a little bit and talk about Elder you know accessible designs for the fittings and stuff in the house which he is important he he I mean I know that he's going to say that we should require it as part of the as part of the the process it's Universal Design I think it's called right right yeah yeah Angus is our um uh trustey who's not able to be here this evening and he wasn't at the

last meeting either um and he is our resident expert with um experience he is a gerontologist so I guess I guess the question would be like what could we could we add that in as a certain number of units have to be universally that's aible uh we can put it in a we can put a highly advantageous some are going to have to be um probably only one would have to be um fully accessible um if you if the developer or if we think they're going to go three stories um uh hlc will require an elevator so that's um you know and zero step to get into um the building um so accessibility in in a new building will be um could be Universal Design could be most of them they'll all be V visitable most of them could be um uh could be accessible or Universal Design so they could be made um fully accessible with um very little um Renovations it's you know really just pulling things out so that's um cabinets out so you can slide under um but yeah we can definitely put that in um I think the barn probably will be more difficult to be made um first floor you know maybe if we if we think about it anything that's first floor has to be um you know we could say something like that and then if there's a if it's three story and there's a elevator that just increases

the accessibility so if it's three stories would would the state require an elevator no matter what or only if we decided to make it universally accessible they usually require require it with three they don't always if it's family housing um um they do well let's say if it's even if it's family housing but if it's one bedrooms they would um and you know it depends on where it is a little bit um if if it's um if you had three and four story buildings that were walk-ups were part of your you know ver vernacular of the town then they probably wouldn't um but I'm from the cape in any three-bedroom they require it okay three story and uh some of the Universal Design of visitability kind of design is beneficial for more than just seniors like families that they're using strollers that are shpping little kids around like it those kinds of things can be really beneficial Beyond just right for for many different stages in life absolutely very true yeah other questions um would it does it make sense for us in the in the RFP to um commit to um things like um you know having the connection to town water already in place or or or committing to do that as as one of our expenses um you know anything that saves them

money yeah that's okay you know that would be um desirable um yeah if that's something you can do yeah so Bartlett I think we should probably explore that further just to confirm yep in writing with water yes okay so next steps um has the trust um voted to make this land available for disposition probably not no if you have an example motion that would be helpful that's really it you know just um that you know I don't think at this point I mean my gut tells me that that house probably needs to be subdivided off but I think we have to do a little bit more um work around that um so you know I'm sure this the obviously you need to put it on an agenda that you are going to vote to um make the property you know to to dispose of the property is the terminology um make it available for disposition is is what the IG says um and then um we can I can start I can do a first draft of an RFP and then you can I think it's best

to to take a look at it and then we can ED it away um it's it's harder to be talking about it without having something in front of you so that's why I st with the questions they they help me put parameters around U what's going to be in the RFP and I can get it somewhat right hopefully the first way the first time and and then we'll um you know we'll refine it and and get more or less specific as we go along great that sounds wonderful sound like a plan we can have that vote about the disposition at our next meeting which is actually in two weeks on Wednesday March 19th so Mar we to the agenda right and then once we get once we start working through the um the RFP um then I'll be reaching out for attachments that have to go with it P you know votes and deeds and things like that some of it we I already have but um we'll move that along and I'll I'll do a little research on that easement and see what I can come up with right and and in terms of timing are we thinking another couple of weeks or a month for uh that draft just so that um put it onto our agenda see where we are um probably probably just to give me enough time the not the next meeting but the meeting after that if you meet every two

weeks we typically meet the third Tuesday of the month okay we take it out to April April 15th right tax day tax day um we could meet earlier or sooner than that because we have made a commitment that if we need to meet more often we can at the same time we don't want to overly rush you so what what do you think about the timing right um I could do it sooner than that but two weeks isn't long enough all right so so let's have a meeting ail 8 if that's the right day so by the 19th can you give us a date when you would be ready because then we could schedule a meeting for that um right I could be ready by the 1 and that's not an April fools right yes April fools okay so the first is a um Tuesday Tuesday you said you usually meet on Tuesdays right is everybody here um available for Tuesday April 1st I will not be available that day there will be FL I could do the second or the eight second second Bartlett could you do the

second um yes okay sue yes's a yes Mark yes okay so then Wednesday April 2nd at 6:30 p.m. or um any other preferred time if that I yeah I might be a little bit late for that I've got a five o'clock meeting but I think I can get be back in time okay so 6:30 p.m. on Wednesday April ell you good for that I may not be able to but it's okay I think you should still move forward I have a five o'clock meeting and I also have a four-year-old so I just don't know if I can do those two back to back but I'll see if I can and you record these anyway right yes we do okay and I am available so okay great all right terrific any thank you very much for your time Laura and Shelly um any other final questions before um our guests leave for tonight Bartlett I'm sorry what' you say no I'm good I think I'm okay okay terrific my my only is we need to make sure about separating the house and the barn that we can actually physically do that or if or determine you know I don't know that there's 30 feet between those buildings Bartlett we'd have to determine that for sure right I can go down there with my tape tomorrow right so and if and if they're not then we need another plan that doesn't include the barn or we can

just get a variance yeah well or you run through the 40b permitting process and you don't need variance don't need it right all right right um okay does that make it unfriendly no I don't know I'll ask you it doesn't make it friend unfriendly to me all right so um members just a reminder that our next regularly scheduled meeting is on Wednesday March 19th 18 and that's at 6: p.m. not 6:30 okay okay Wednesday thank you Laur thank you thank you thank you