Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Welcome to the Little Rock Planning Commission, August 14th, 2025. We're going to go ahead and get started. We have a full house today, uh, ladies and gentlemen. So, with that said, uh, let's go ahead and call this meeting to order and let's get a roll call vote, uh, to determine the corn. All [Applause] right. Excuse me, everyone. This is the roll call vote for the August 14, 2025

Little Rock Planning Commission meeting. Roll call vote. Commissioner Brown here. Bernard here. Hart here. Hodes here. Person here. McDonald Russell present. Samad Tremble present. Baxter present. Vickers present. We have a quorum. All right. Thank you. All right. Moving right along here. I'm sure that all the commissioners got a chance to review the minutes. Uh if there's not any questions, I would love to entertain a motion. Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion to accept the minutes as drafted.

Second. Now we have a motion to second for approval of a minutes. Can I get a roll call vote for that, please? Yes, sir. Commissioner Brown, yes. Bernard, yes. Art, yes. Hodgees, yes. Macdonald, I Russell. Hi. Sad. Treble. Yes. Baxter. Yes. Vickers, yes. Minutes are approved.

All right. Great. Uh before we move to the consent agenda reading, I just wanted to say uh at the end of the meeting and this pertaining to the board, uh we will have just for new business and to discuss the updating of the policy and to look at it or exploring options uh to create a subcommittee uh to review that. So, it's kind of more of a new business for the uh for the commissioners. All right. So with that being said, we're going to move right along for the reading of the consent agenda. Monte, if you will.

Following is the consent agenda Little Rock Planning Commission meeting of August 14th, 2025. Uh first, we have three items that are going to be withdrawn or deferred. Item two, file number Z 10,115. It's being deferred to the November 13th agenda at the request of the applicant. Item six, Z401D, is being withdrawn at the request of the applicant. And item 14 Z8911B is being deferred to the November 13th agenda at the request of the applicant. Next are the items on consent approval. Item number one, Z6978A equipment share CUP 7600 block of Fluid Road. Staff recommends approval of the requested CUP subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs DE and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item three, S1002C, lot 3R, 4R, block 27, John Barrow edition of Replat, immediately south of 3,400 Katherine Street. Staff recommends approval of the requested replat subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs DE andF and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item number 4, S1261M, Kinwood Estates, phase 6, revised preliminary plat of Kenwood Boulevard. Staff recommends approval of the revised preliminary plat subject to compliance with comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs DE and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item five S1844G Copper Run phases seven and 8 preliminary plat south end of Copper Drive south of Pride Valley Road. Staff recommends approval of the preliminary plat subject to compliance with comments and conditions noted in paragraphs E and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item seven, Z6957P may Nord conditional use permit 5100 Tally Road. Staff recommends approval of the requested CUP subject to compliance

with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs DE and F in the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item 8, Z10,184 Apex professional construction duplex conditional use permit 813 Rice Street. Staff recommends approval of the CUP subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs DE and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report item 9 Z 10,185 Skyline Equity Group duplex CUP immediately south of 1412 South Pine Street. Staff recommends approval of the CUP subject to compliance with the comments and conditions noted in paragraph DE and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item 10, Z10,186 Elite Equity 10 duplex conditional use permit southwest corner of West 18th Street and Harrison Street. Staff recommends approval of the CUP subject to compliance with comments and conditions noted in paragraphs D and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item 11 Z 10,187 Brooks duplex conditional use permit immediately west of 3105 West 11th Street. Staff recommends approval of the CUP subject to compliance with comments and conditions noted in paragraphs DE and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item 12 is being moved to the regular agenda for discussion. Item 13, Z509J, Northwest Territory lots 9F through 9J, PCD and preliminary plat north side of Canra Road approximately 800 ft west of Chanel Parkway. Staff recommends approval of the requested PCD and preliminary plat subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs DE andF and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item 16 Z10,173 Maze Harris PDR 3201 West 12th Street. Staff recommends approval of the of the

uh PDR subject to the compliance with the comments and conditions noted in paragraph D and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item 18 10,181 Orondorf number two PDR Southwest corner of East 15th and Hangar Streets. Staff recommends approval of the requested PDR zoning subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs DE and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item 19 Z10,182 or number three PDR immediately north of 1508 Hangar Street. Staff recommends approval of the requested PDR subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs DE andF and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report item 20 Z 10,183 Ororf number four PDR immediately north of 1614 College Street. Staff recommends approval of the requested PDR subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs D and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. And item 21, an ordinance to repeal the city of Little Rock's planning jurisdiction in unincorporated areas. Staff recommends approval of the ordinance. That concludes the consent agenda.

Thank you, Monty. Uh if we don't have any uh questions uh from any of the commissioners, I would like to entertain a motion. Mr. Chair, I make a motion that we approve the consent agenda as read subject to staff's analysis, conditions, and comments. Second. I have a motion and second. May I get a roll call vote, please? Yes, sir. Commissioner Brown. Yes. Bernard. Yes. Hart. Yes. Hodgees. Yes. Macdonald. Yes. Person. Hi. Russell. Hi. Sad. Yes. Trimble. Yay. Backter. Yes. Yes.

Consent agenda has been approved. Thank you. All right. So, if your item was on the consent agenda, you're we would love for you to stay, but you're more than welcome uh to leave at this particular time. And um while we give you just a minute to depart. Um we have an item item number 12 uh was moved over to the regular agenda. So, if you're here for that item, definitely you will need to to stay here on that. That's Z-10188 the gardens for conditional use permit. And for the regular agenda, just for the record, um we're moving that to the regular agenda and that will be the first item on the regular agenda. And then the other will go in chronological order, item number 15, and 17. So it will be 12, 15, and 17. Also, I want to add that we uh actually have our full board here. Uh but we have a couple of uh commissioners that have to leave a little early due to conflict of schedules. Uh so we're going to try to move along accordingly and we want to respect everybody's time here definitely. So with that being said uh item number 12 up and since we have several cards for this particular item there's a total of 20 minutes whether if you're support or in opposition. So if there's 20 cards up there then essentially you have up to 20 minutes which it will give fair time of one minute per card or if you have a representative that will be representing the full group that would like to you know have more time or a lot more time to that particular person uh then you can Okay. So we just want to be mindful of that as well. So moving right along. Is the applicant for item number 12 Z-10188 present?

Present. While you're making your way up here to the podium we will have the reading. Yes, sir.

Item 12, file number Z10,188. This is the gardens conditional use permit, 9621 Tall timber boulevard. The applicant is requesting a conditional use permit to allow the existing developed property to be utilized as a mental health and therapeutic community facility. The facility will operate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The Gardens is a therapeutic community with current facilities in Sherwood and Texirana. The gardens proposes to occupy the existing developed property with a living facility for 16 individuals. There will be up to eight staff or caregivers at any given time. The gardens provides provides care for adults diagnosed with serious mental illness or intellectual disorder. The site is located on the east side of stage coach road and contains an existing one-story building. The building was previously occupied by the Bible Doctrine Church of Little Rock. Properties surrounding the site contain a mixture of zoning and uses. Two driveways extend south from Tall timber boulevard providing access to the property. The western drive will serve as the primary ingress egress. The applicant notes that the easternmost driveway from Tall timber boulevard, the driveway closest to the single family neighborhood will be gated and only used for emergency access. The existing building is 11,918 square feet in area. The applicant intends to remodel the building. The existing parking lot located on the north side of the building provides ample parking for staff and visitors. Staff feels the parking is sufficient to serve the proposed use. The applicant notes that transportation is provided to all clients and they will not be roaming the streets and neighborhood. Staff is supportive of the requested CUP. Staff feels the applicant's proposed reuse of the developed sites is an appropriate use for this location. The property is over seven acres in area and will be occupied by only 16 residents. The proposed facility should prove to be a very quiet and low traffic use. The property is located along a principal arterial roadway, State Highway 70. The only daily vehicle access will be from the westernmost drive near the intersection. The majority of the

property is undeveloped and tree covered. There is an existing land use buffer along the east property line ranging in width from 100 ft to 200 ft. In staff's opinion, the proposed use will have no adverse impact on the surrounding properties. And staff recommends approval of the requested CUP subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs D and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report and the following condition. The conditional use permit will be for the gardens facility and operators only. If the garden ceases use and vacates the property, the conditional use permit will become null and void and will not be transferred to another user. Thank you for the reading, Monty. Applicant, please state your name for the record.

Yes, sir. Joe White. Joe White. All right, Mr. White. So, um before you get started, you're more welcome to uh present uh your presentation on this item or if you like, we do have a host of cards in opposition. You can defer your time now and come back up afterwards or you can speak now. Your choice. We'd like to do a short. We've got a video we'd like to show you. Sure. and then we'd like to reserve the rest of our time. Sure. The floor we've got we've got a group here uh that can answer questions. So, why don't I sit down and let's play the video. Is that good?

Yeah. Well, and uh Mr. Chairman, while we're queuing that up just real quick because I I have gotten a couple questions on this, I just, you know, to make sure we're all on the same page. Um, you know, with other types of applications, I have a thing I read that's this is not a group home application. It's not a special use permit, but just so everyone uh, you know, is keeping this in mind. Same for the folks that are here for public comment. We cannot deny this based on what the proposed uh basically because it because it serves a disabled population that can't be the basis for it. So I just want to make sure that we all have that uh in mind uh moving forward. Thank you. Thank you. All right, let's start the video.

Struggled with some kind of mental crisis. It's not us and them, it's we. And so when Ed told me about Arkansas and that our state department wanting to get behind communities like the Gardens, I said, "Count me in." The Gardens is a community support system provider. It's a therapeutic community for people who have some type of mental health condition. It's our friends. It's our family. It's our kids. It's our moms or dads. It's people who are in college. It's people who are going back to get their GED. You know, it's people who are looking for jobs. We believe that everybody has individual rights. It's our mission to help support whatever life you want to lead.

We push everybody to realize that we all struggle with something. So, go about each day being the best person that you can be. One in 30 new births in the United States, those babies are born with autism. And those babies are going to be our children. They're going to be our grandchildren, our nieces and nephews. And we have got to have something in place to support them. [Music] We're going to look out for one another. We're going to be there for one another. We're always keeping a close eye on everything, making sure the neighborhood is safe. It's guarded.

This is what you can expect. We sign in. We communicate. The staff here and the people that that live here, we want it to be safe. You know, we gather each day inside this community and we talk about our day. We want to know our next door neighbors. We want y'all to know us. Keeping that rapport about everyone that's in the neighborhood about what's going on. We don't add to traffic because, you know, most of our folks still need some assistance and support. So, it's not like we've got 16, you know, cars out front with lots of coming and going. We're not a drug and alcohol detox center. in order to get screened and become a tenant here is we do very thorough criminal background checks. We want to look out for you. We want you to look out for us.

We're just here to just look out for one another and make sure everything is okay and safe. We want to make the community more beautiful. You know, we like flowers. We have palm trees and pots. We have ferns that are there. We really want to be an addition to the community. We want it to be beautiful. We offer employment opportunities for folks who live in the area. We want volunteers in here. We have people from different churches that come in and volunteer. I think we add an enrichment to communities. We are not an island and we're not a silo.

Right now, you want to be a part of this. You're impacting so many lives, but you're challenging not only the people here. You're challenging yourself to be better to help motivate them to live a more healthy and a positive lifestyle. Each person has their own room which is equipped with their own bed, dresser, computer desk and chair. They have their own TV. In the mornings, folks will get up, some will eat early breakfast, some will eat late breakfast. They'll help clean the community. We know now the mind body connection between good health, good nutrition. So, we really try to have a wellbalanced breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You socialize with one another like a family. You talk about what's going to go on that day and what's planned. Then around 9:30 or so, we have group therapy.

Some people will have an individual session with the counselor or the social worker that's on premises. Some will go to work. Some will get in the books and go to school. We have great activities. Uh leadership. We go to concerts. We go to the parks. We'll go and have dinner and we'll socialize. We'll talk about the day. Typical day is just like a normal family life. If we invest in in our people, problems can be prevented. folks that come in and live in our communities, it keeps them out of the hospital. And hospitals are not places to live. Communities are places to live. Most people that struggle with mental health, they feel like they have no one they can go to to help them overcome it.

And overcoming that stigma of people that have some kind of brain condition, whether it's autism, if it's a processing problem, or if it is a, you know, a chemical imbalance. Um, I think we should talk about it. We have got a society of people just like you and I that that struggle with this. It's an internal thing. It's that stigma that it's not okay to have something mentally wrong with you.

And there shouldn't be shame associated with it. Well, I like to say what my favorite poet Maya Angelou says is we did then what we knew then. When we knew better, we did better. If we can prevent something from happening, the outcomes are better all around. That's kind of our jobs here at the garden is to let you know that it's okay to have something wrong. We're here for you. I think we'll uh we'll just pause and uh listen to the uh neighbors and their concerns and then respond. All right. Thank you.

Thank you.

All right. So, we have a um a number of cards here. So, I'm going to call them here in order as I have them. The first uh and if you want to defer your time, you can just stand up, raise your hand, and say that you want to defer your time. If you have a general speaker or you want to all lot more time to uh someone else who filled out the green card. The first card is David Wright. And if you need to adjust the microphone, you can. Hello, I'm David R. I'm pastor of Antioch Missionary Baptist Church and I come here on behalf of the people that you see behind me. Uh it's not that we're opposed to getting mental those that have mental health assistance and uh the problem is we have a detox center that's right next door that's caused a problem in the neighborhood and the that's that's the sad situation to have. If this had been the organization that came first, I don't think you'd have a problem. But because of that, it's caused the neighborhood to say no. And they've come to me. We've had many meetings and they've discussed this and it's just not a good fit right now. Um, this detox center does have some issues. I've had to call the director there because we've had people come over to our church wanting a drive, wanting to call somebody, get a drive. Uh, and so it's just a it's just not a good fit right now in the community. Uh, they've had many issues with that center and I'm we're afraid and they and the the people here are afraid that they're going to have issues with their neighbor next door. And so I don't think it's a good fit for the community. It's nothing against what they're doing. I think they're doing a wonderful service. I have uh adult autistic family in mind and also children and I think that it's needed but yet it's just not a good fit for the community that we have around us.

Thank you. Thank you, pastor. Next card is uh Denise White.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. Feel free to adjust the microphone, Mrs. White, if you will. Okay. Um, my name is Denise White. I am a mortgage loan officer with Bank Ozk. Um, I am also a resident of Pan Lake. Um, I'm here in opposition of the facility. Number one, as uh the pastor stated, we have a lot of problems with that detox. There are ambulances running day and night. you can barely sleep some nights because somebody's ODed. Um, I'm also a commission uh a volunteer with the Little Rock Regional Chamber and recently we took out uh uh members their new plaques. I went to the detox place to deliver theirs and one of the patients let me in the facility. There was nobody up there at front. So, I feel like um they're doing good work, but it's not something for a residential area. Uh and our residential area is predominantly African-American. As a loan officer, what they're putting up there along with the detox is going to devalue our homes. Because when you get ready to say, "Oh, how many people going to want to live next to a detox center and a facility where you're dealing with people with disabilities and disabilities where, you know, you don't know what it it entails as far as a safety issue. Um, I know they say that, you know, uh they haven't had any problems, but that's why they call them accidents because it's something that you hadn't planned." And everybody makes a mistake. Uh I think it's um something that we don't want our children exposed to. You know, it's bad enough they're exposed to the detox place because when those people want to leave, they just

open the door and let them out and they're roaming around our neighborhood. And our children see that. And that's not a good look. Not at all. And you know, I feel like more and more the city is trying to push businesses in our residential area, taking down our property values and uh preventing us from having uh properties sell. The house next door to me has been on the market now for more than 6 months. I've watched realtors come and go, taking people over there to look at it. Now, are they not buying it because something is wrong with the house? I doub I doubt that because the people that live there took very good care of their property. Or is it because they're in close proximity to a detox center or in another facility that's going to come in with patients? Uh because people talk and people hear what's going to move into the neighborhood. So, you know, I feel like um we need to have somebody on our side as a predominantly African-American neighborhood. We need somebody to look and say, "What about our property values? What about our children? What about our neighborhood?" that I understand what they're doing, but to me that is something that should be in a either business area or outside the city uh where you can have um more confined area for your patients and more places for them to go out and sit with their families and visits and all that is it's not for a residential area. Not at all. So that is my opposition to it is that I ask that you think about us as a neighborhood and you think about our property values and what effect this will have on it and the safety of not only our children but the people in our

neighborhood because we've been there a long time myself I've been there over 20 years and you know as older people you know I want to feel safe in my home you know and right now I don't because of the detox because I know they're walking around and I worry about that. So, I ask that you consider that information and not give them access to that uh old senior care business that that was up there. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Next is William Ellis. My name is William Ellis. My address is 5110 Stage Coach Road. I'm directly across the street. I can throw a rock and hit this property. I lived on this property for 45 years where I'm at. So, I know Stage Coach pretty well. The detox, as you've heard from these two speakers, that that very well summed up what we're fighting here today, is is is so true. The detox should have never been approved. This board should have never approved that detox center. I don't care the beautiful name of Haven on it or if it's, you know, the gardens or whatever it you can't put lipstick on it and change it. The uh the detox center is bad. Uh sirens. There was nursing home there for several years before. There's been more sirens. And it's not just ambulances. It's the firet truck, the ambulance, and the police car. All three of these vehicles will pull up, full sirens, full lights in front of this place. The gates are clocked. You can't get in. All this is going on 2:00 in the morning, and it's non-stop. It's terrible. The ambulances and and activity out there is by far three or four times more than what this nursing home had when it was there. And as these folks are saying, I'm handing water out to people walking down the street up against my driveway. Do you need they need a drink? They just they need help. So this is bad. Uh this is a very wonderful historical area out here. Uh the the first uh brick w brick home west Mississippi is out here on stage coach

road just a few blocks down from this. So this area does not need to be dumped on anymore. than it's been dumped on before. Do the right thing this time. Please do not approve this. This detox should have not happened and all we're going to do is add more to the issues on this street on this beautiful area. This a southwest trail, the trail of tears. It does not need to be dumped on as it is up now. Thank you. Uh next card, Ed Bington. Sorry, my back's bothering me. Ed Bington and I lived in McConnell Lake for about 45 years. My wife and I have raised our daughter and our granddaughter now calls it home for about 20 years. Like the preacher said, we're not against these kind of programs. I have friends, family and non-family friends who need these kind of programs. I'm concerned about density. We have detox has 40 plus patients there. 40 plus. And this is proposing to have 16. That would be 56 people there with mental health and drug problems. And in in a neighborhood they're contiguous to each other. They're contiguous to my neighbors over here. So I had we we got the impression when they came out talked to us it's a done deal. If it is a done deal, which I hope it's not, but if it is, I'd like a couple things on it. One of them is that they don't have any more than 16 patients that cap it at 16. So, they can't add. And secondly, that they don't add buildings space. They use that existing building if you approve it. I hope you don't approve it, but if you do, the third one I had down, you've already got covered, which is they don't if they move out, then it has to be completely resone. So, that's a good that's a good thing. They

mentioned problems out there. Um, from January of 2024 to June of 2025, they've had 120 91 calls out there for for things like um dead body disturbances, breaking and entering, uh, harassment, overdose, things like that. So, I think it doesn't belong there. I, you know, when they move in apartments, they're kind of like rabbits. They just keep popping up everywhere. So, I don't want that to be the case out there. You got detox here and one across the street where there's another church that might come up or other places. So, thank you.

Thank you, Bernard Mitchell.

Thank you. My name is Bernard Mitchell. I'm a 40year plus resident of Aan Lake. I oppose uh this uh recommendation. I've have the unfortunate of having two neighbors and right behind me and right to the right of me both have bipolar schizophrenic family members. I've witnessed at two lo both location at least two time where the police and the ambulance had to come and physically remove these people from the resident. They were violent. They attack their family members. And right now, I am uh I'm sympathetic for the mentally ill, but at this point, I don't feel like that this is a good fit for our uh our neighborhood. I only live one minute walking distance from this property. Thank you.

Thank you,

Gail Long. Good afternoon. I am Gail Long and I've lived in the Tall timber community roughly 20 years. And I'm just going to piggyback off everybody else you've heard that live in that neighborhood. Safety. I am a retired Paskki County Sheriff's deputy and safety is always my number one issue and what pastor said that if they had have come first then no problem at all. But now that they're on the tail end of it, I'm in opposition of this. Safety is number one. Safety is key. And then I also want to say they've already stated that how their property line encroaches that area there. And I heard through the video I believe they said that they would not be out walking around. But we had a meeting some time back and they said that they wouldn't be under lock and key. Is that correct? That they would not be under lock and key. They had privileges to walk around like you and I from our houses. So with doing that, we through the detox center, we already have them all times of the night riding bicycles, walking through our neighborhood. I have grandchildren. I have small grandchildren. And safety is still my number one concern. And property value is my next concern. I didn't work hard through blood, sweat, and tears to get my property the way that I wanted. Is it needed? I'm sure it is. Do I have people in my family that have these issues that they have? I do. Do they

need somewhere to go? They do. But why our neighborhood? Can they not be on the outskirts? Can they not? So, I just want you to consider and I want to make myself clear. I am opposed of this. Remember our loved ones who live in our community cuz we are a close-knit community. So with taking that in consideration, just hear us out and just remember we live we live in that neighborhood. That's all I have. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Long. Uh we have one and we have one card left here and that is uh director BJ Weber. This is like a movie theater trying to move around in here. Uh, thank you for calling my name. I'm BJ Wyrick. I represent Ward 7. The people that you've heard from tonight live in my area and I have to respect their wishes and their desires. They expect to have a safe home. They expect to know who their neighbors are. they they want to work and play and have quiet enjoyment of their property. We have the detox center, 44 plus residents that live there that came in under sort of a guided situation. And and now we have another uh unit that's wanting to come in with 16 houses. Georgia did a beautiful job with her video. She's a wonderful person. I love her. Uh but if she had came in first, it might have been a different story. But what we have is the density problem with 44 units and now n another 16 and that's 56 units. I have to support my neighborhood. We have PCON Lake. We have Greenwood Acres and we have Tall Timber and they're represented to not not to mention our our preacher that's right across the street and and residents along Stage Coach Road. We're very concerned about the additional numbers of these kinds of uh activity group homes in our area. So, I'm not in support of this. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. So, that was the um completion of the uh cards in opposition. And so, now we're going to ask the applicant to come back up, Mr. White. And you said you had um somebody on your team, Mr. White, that wanted to speak. No. Yeah, I think I think so. Come on. Okay. And please state your name for the record and you can adjust the microphone.

Thank you. Ed Holman. I'm with the gardens here with my business partner Georgia Johnston. I'd like to thank the planning department and the commission for giving us the time here to present our case. Um, and I appreciate everybody out here that's coming to speak. It shows how democracy works. we can all voice u in our government even down at the lowest levels here. Um I've heard everything they've said tonight and I promise that our concerns line up with theirs are uh we don't have any intent to ever cause any harm to their property values or to the safety of their families themselves. Um, we've shown the video uh that shows what we do. We've invited folks uh our neighbors out to see the facility in Sherwood or even our facility in Texirana. Uh we've reached out to commission members and the department invited them out and some of you have come out there and seen what we do. Um we don't have anything to hide. There's nothing here to hide. We're not holding back describing our mission and we want to do more. the the plan uh here is a beautiful site and we can enhance the neighborhood, not hurt it. I'm sorry, but um uh it's it's an eyesore right now and we we'll do nothing but make that better. Uh as for people's safety, um that's our commitment. We've got trained staff 24 hours a day that will work with these folks. Um in the daytime, we've got eight staff for 16 residents. That's an incredible ratio of staff. Uh in the evenings when people are winding down, we do reduce the staff, but there's still staff all the time. We screen our

residents. I was looking at the list yesterday of our other businesses and we had 135 applicants and we've taken 31 of them. Uh so we screen through, we look for criminal backgrounds, we're looking for sexual predators, we're making sure that they don't have recent violence. um all those things. We're we're not equipped for those type of residents and we cannot support them in our community. We're very sensitive to the neighbors feeling burned by other developers in the neighborhood. Very sensitive to that. Uh the I'll just get to it. The facility is licensed by the state of Arkansas. They are required to be good neighbors. If they cause problems within the neighborhood, the neighbors need to call the state. There's a number to call and every time you call, they have to respond. If the facility doesn't correct these things, they have to assign a staff member to be a liaison to the community. This is in the regulations for this for the drug and alcohol rehab. They have to do that. If they don't do it, state can go after them and their options are not limited anything. They can close the facility down if they choose. So, I hate to get off on a tangent, but there are remedies for those problems. If it gets to be a a nuisance, and state does respond to those things. We're under similar regulations. If we violate that, they will come after us just as well. I've been in healthc care now for 45 years. had to comply with some pretty strict regulations for many years. Uh the healthc care industry is second most regulated after the power plants down in Russellville. Uh so we know how to deal

with those things. Getting back to our operations, we won't accept people who have recent drug or alcohol problems. We're not equipped to handle them. We're not licensed to. We won't do it. Our residents will be handicapped. They've got some sort of disability. every single one of them as we've heard um we we can't discriminate against them but uh they they either have a serious mental illness or they have a developmental disability an intellectual disability. So that's the type of people we have. Um we've gone out of our way to be honest and forthcoming with the neighbors. We held a meeting to introduce it. We had a the a video. Then we had a a few pages of flyers with frequently asked questions and we spent another hour and a half answering questions with the neighbors. Um we've told them about our Facebook page. We've shown them everything we can to make them feel comfortable. As I said, we've invited them out there. Uh our license defines the services we can do. Um, but um, you know, our residents, you saw in the video, they're going to look like us. They're going to look like our children. They're going to look like our grandchildren, but they're people that need a little help. Uh, they want the same thing though in life that we do. They want food. They want shelter. They want safety, and they want a sense of purpose. They want to live in a community. They don't want to live in an institution over in the warehouse district. Uh, they don't want to be isolated out in a place in the middle of the country. Eventually, many of these folks will receive enough support and training through our program where they can return to the community. They can get jobs. They can live either independently or semi-independently with maybe with some assistance as needed. It's a great program. You've

heard pretty much half the people have spoken say they have friends, relatives, neighbors that need help and and this is the answer to it. Uh, in the case of the folks with um a neighbor or somebody that they had to call the police, well, I'm going to be real honest, folks. I've got a bipolar son who's in prison right now. It's hard to control him. But if he'd been in a program like this, we would have had a different outcome. He would have gotten counseling. He would have gotten his medications regularly. and um it would have been different. So what we're going to do is going to help people and that's um we we're trying to do everything we can to address these issues. We worked with planning. They've told us the changes we need to make. We're agreeing to leave a wooded buffer. We're going to clean out the ugly stuff, the trees that are falling down. We've had complaints about Bradford pears. We'll work with the neighborhood to say, "What kind of trees do you want? We'll put them in. We'll decorate it nice. We're going to allow the POA to use it for meetings if they want to because they need a space. Uh we'll help with keeping the park up, keeping the garden up if they want. Uh that I heard they need help with the lake. Uh they need some pumps. We'll help with that. We want to be good neighbors. We've agreed to the restrictions on the property. So, we're we're trying to do everything we can, but this is a great location. It's it'll be quiet. Uh it's it is zoned properly. Um you know there there are worse things that could go in there. The owner is trying to sell and you all know the other things that are allowed here. You could have a you could have a cemetery go in there. You could have a nursing home go in there. All kinds of property. So we're not the worst thing that could go in there. I'm sorry. So I I hope you all will do the right thing and approve this for us. Thank you. I'm I'm open to

any questions you have.

Before I open the uh uh the board up of the commissioners for questioning, I do have a question here. And I want to just say this. I I when we have a full house like this, I want to take a quick minute to say that I thank all citizens that came out today and the community and the neighborhood. Uh definitely for being respectful. We appreciate that. When we see items like this and they get very constrained and strenuous. Uh so I appreciate everybody respect today. I do want to say that. And uh before I open the floor up, uh Mr. Hullman, I want to say because there have been some concerns with the community stated two things that stuck out to me. Number one is safety uh which everybody want to be safe in every neighborhood, right? And number two is the density issues. And I want to if you can just speak to that to to the board um and kind of tell us give us a little bit more expound a little bit further on that.

Sure. number one about um we kind of see what you've written and laid out um in your docs but the maximum the maximum occupancy uh by law I kind of know what you written but you know sometime if it's by law you can go over that threshold you can uh number two you mentioned that uh you have a staff of eight which that's actually really good I mean ratio at any one time we'll have about uh probably 16 18 employees at the building

but I'm more concerned about um again safety security guards or making sure that if how would that be maintained to ensure uh you know uh if passed uh or if not but if passed how could you ensure the neighborhood is safe the your property is safe and is and controlled. So those are the initial questions.

Mr. Chair, I get a report from our facilities weekly on 911 calls. As the owner, I'm kind of like Jerry Jones. I want to know it all. And u my calls this week were two 911 calls. One young lady ordered some chicken wings from Pizza Hut. She wasn't happy with them, so she called the Pizza Hut. They gave her some lip, so she called the police. Police came out there. They read her the riot act, told her they were going to take her in if she did it again. Second one was a 911 call from our building uh reporting a wreck. Somebody coming out of the Walmart parking lot. Those were my two calls this week. Uh can something happen? Somebody can uh can leave the building. They're they're not prisoners there in most cases. Uh we have people that are I say prisoners, they're that are court ordered to be in there. Others are there voluntarily, but uh we're under managed care. So if someone does elect to leave or as as their um their managed care time, we coordinate with their managed care company to get placement for them and until they have placed them safely, we are responsible for them. Uh we do regular checks with the staff to resident ratio we have, we pretty much know where everybody is at all hours. They're they're looking for someone. and they go, "Oh yeah, he's probably out getting a smoke and they'll go check." We've got cameras and keep a good video system, have uh chimes on the door so we know when the doors open and close and they're locked in the evening. So, uh we we do all of that. Uh as far as um uh the violence, those things typically happen when people have been off their meds. I'm I'm just speculating in the

neighbors cases, but that's pretty common what we hear. That's how people end up in the jails and in the hospitals. And this program was put together. I worked with the Department of Human Services since December of 2019 and kind of a task force to do this to help empty the jails with their mentally ill and help get people out of the state hospital because they're backed up. Uh we typically we see people staying in jail for a year or longer waiting to get into the state hospital. So there's no place for them to go. And this is to help get people out, get them in a lower level of care before they can go back into the community. So they're getting constant therapy. They're monitored by a social worker. They're monitored by a nurse, by a psychiatrist, and a nurse practitioner. Uh if they're starting to something uh ramping up, the staff notices it and they will get the professionals on it. So, we've got a social worker that's on call, a psychiatrist that's on call, and they have to be there in a short amount of time if there's an incident. So, that's that's kind of how it works. And we we do have 911 when things get out if things were to get out of hand, but it's not like what I hear next door. It's just not that way.

Okay. And I just wanted to confirm, you said there will be some security presence on there. Well, the the staff is trained for security. We don't have a a security guard there, but staff is trained in that. Um, some of the folks we hire do have correctional background, and that comes in handy, but the bulk of them are from with behavioral tech backgrounds. Okay. At this time, I want to open the floor up. I'm sure Commissioner Russell have a few comments and questions to make. Um, one, I wanted to address density. Uh, staff, can you confirm what's the size of this lot? It's about seven acres, right? Uh that is correct. About seven acres

and uh there's going to be 16 full-time residents at the site, not including staff. Correct.

Okay. So, very quick back of the napkin math talking about density. That's 19,000 square feet per resident for this property. The average lot size for a single family lot in this city is between five and 7,000 square feet for a family of an average of four. So that gives you right over 1,000 square feet per person. This is 19 times the size of the average single family home in the city of Little Rock. So when talking about density, not an issue. Um, when we're talking about security, these are nonviolent people, right?

That's what we screen for. Yes, sir.

These are people who simply suffer from some disability. And is it safe to say in your opinion that a community environment is more conducive to promoting I don't want to say rehabilitation but that's that's it's that's the best word I can come up with of these types of people suffering from a a a handicap so that they can re-enter society as a productive member. I would say re-entry is something that a neighborhood like this would be good for. That's our other two facilities uh do border on residential neighborhoods and it's not an issue.

And uh question for staff. This is a conditional use permit. Correct. Yes, Commissioner Russell. It is. which means the use being applied for is already allowed within the code. Yes, it is uh for conditional uses that needs planning commission approval. Correct. But there's no variances. There's no special treatment. There's no additional things that the applicant is requesting that are outside the zoning ordinance. No, there's not. Thank you. Do we have other questions? Commissioner Brown.

So, first question, staff, then the applicant. Uh, we look at things like the drug screen and the 16 residents that is actually in the application. And are we correct that if there is a variance from that that then becomes a uh uh a compliance issue? Yes.

Okay. And the second thing and I want to ask before I ask the applicant this, I want to recognize that the neighborhood is very concerned and I I hear their concerns and I mean it sounds like that that the whole that I don't want I don't want us to be dismissive of those even though I think we're limited as a commission what we can do on this one because of some requirements that we have although I think the board has more flexibility than we do because this is the neighborhood just so you know what else happens here today you can't appeal to the board they may or may not have more flexibility than we do um But when we look at this, I have two questions. One, you said that you're screening for back background, but then you also made a comment minute ago about people being taken out of incarceration. So, can you clarify that? And then number two, as I watched the video, what it reminds me of is some of the uh facilities around like Chanel and stuff that have they're really just um nursing homes that have as well as older individuals have people with disability. I hate I hate the term disability people with challenges

dementia um in there who might be younger. Can you explain tell me where the difference and similarities are between what this is and where those kind of facilities? Sure. Um frequently what will happen but but I need to answer the thing about the backgrounds versus the criminal stuff.

I'll I'll start with the criminal part first. Um what will happen sometimes like discussed the police hauling off somebody um and they may have hit their mother, hit a grandmother. I mean I've heard them all and they're in jail and nobody will bail them out and they sit there and they say we're the judge will say they need to go to a state hospital and the state hospital says well we'll put you on the list. Call us back next August. So, they're stuck in jail, not getting any therapy, probably not getting any medications, certainly not a good environment, and they they get worse in there. And that's is pro part of what we're trying to do is get them out of the jails, get them into the hospital, get them stabilized, and then eventually get them to where they can go to a lower level of care. And that's kind of how it works. So,

this facility going to have those kind of people in it.

They will have some uh others will be we'll get a referral from Baptist Hospital, from US, from St. Vincent's the other hospitals that have psychiatric units and as they have stabilized folks and we'll go interview them. Sometimes it'll take two weeks, sometimes it'll take two or three months. I don't know what our record is for somebody that's been in the hospital, but I know we've had some that have been in over a year. And when when they're ready for placement, only then will we do it. And our staff goes out and uh interviews them. We look at a referral package. Um, I look at it, Georgia looks at it. Uh, the the staff, um, Shun's down here, he looks at it. Our nurse practitioner, everybody reviews it, and only then will we accept somebody in. But we've interviewed them, we reviewed, we've looked at their uh, the medications they're on, their labs, everything we can to to make sure they're going to be a fit, that's going to be safe, and somebody we can admit and treat properly. And my second question please about the difference between this versus the facilities on Chanel that have the they're like nursing homes basically.

Yeah. And I it's in the nursing home business for a long time. Uh most of those have like a lockown unit for dementia uh or Alzheimer's disease. There's about 20 different diagnosis that they have for lockdown, but um that's generally for older with a different kind of diagnosis and we don't handle that. All right. Other questions? Yes, Mr. Chair. Okay. Can I just going back to this this this safety issue and is it retired deputy long? Is it is that right, Miss Long? Yes.

Thank you for your years of service. Um, yeah, it's just extremely concerning. And you know, Mr. Mr. Holman, Miss Johnson, I know, you know, we we discussed this and, you know, looked at all the information on the facility and, you know, thank you for your services as well to the community because we do need things like this. And I think the question always is is where do these things go, right? I mean, do we go outside the city? Do we go somewhere in the middle of nowhere? I mean, it just ultimately like everything that comes before this commission that's contested, it's it's it's it's a balancing test, right? So, I think going back to the safety piece, I mean, I think it's clear that there could be some folks there who have been convicted of a violent crime. Plain and simple. Correct. We are going to look if it's recent violence, they're not going to be in there. If it's something that happened 20 years ago and they've received treatment um and they still need some additional help and counseling, we will look at that person. But uh uh if I get a referral from um I don't know. I guess if they're if it's re recent violence, they're probably going to stay in jail anyway. But u uh we're looking at u not wanting somebody that's uh uh just had a a big episode that we can't handle. That's just too too recent. Um and we don't feel comfortable with that. We've got too many people trying to get in that we don't have to take the most difficult cases. There are places for that and that's not us.

Okay. At this point in time, is there any policy that's that's written down that's on paper that says, "Okay, these folks with this felony class Y, but these folks, not really a policy like that. Um, and it's hard to get all of that information, but we we look for the sexual predators and and uh we are looking at the violence uh to make sure and and most of these people don't have that kind of violence. The the bulk of the ones we see um are are going to be where they had an argument with their father or mother and hit them or something like that. It's um uh the the really rough ones are going to go on through the system. Um, that that's kind of the sad part about it. As a father, I can say that. So, um, uh, it's it's not really an issue for us.

I guess I see where you're going, but we don't take those folks. Right. Okay. Because I just I mean, we had, let's see, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven residents from this community, many of whom have been there for for years, if not decades, speak out against this. And it's just As a father with younger children, I know we have some grandparents and probably some parents out there as well. We do want to be 100% certain that the folks there are taken care of. So, is there anything else that you can speak to this piece of safety and ensuring the community?

The building will have keypads on it. They're they're not going out unless they're uh somebody that's earned those privileges that's going to be totally compliant. Um, and as I said, we can tell as people are starting to have an issue and if anything that's probably going to be somebody getting mad at somebody at at the dinner table and throwing a plate at them.

Last question. If you know, God forbid, you know, something happens, you know, assuming say this is approved, it's built, you know, someone goes out into the community and breaks into a home or or violates the rules of the facility. What is the the recourse of the facility? We will do everything in our power to support uh the police the actions and if they're if they've done something like that they would be removed from the facility ASAP. That would be an emergency discharge. We have to do those occasionally and um uh my most recent one was somebody smoking in the room. We told them not to a couple times and the building had caught on fire a couple years ago. I'm not going to go through that again. them. They got to discharge. So, usually it's minor rule things. Um, but um we will discharge them. We um we're going to have a shorter fuse than most places because I'm sensitive to the neighborhood.

Uh safety is going to be um it's not going to be like the other place. I just promise you that. Last question on my end for now. Just in terms of property values, has there been any study, you know, with your other facility in Sherwood, right, the effect on property values?

Uh, I've been own the property for 20 years. Um, when we had to do our most recent reszoning, we sent out did all the notices to the neighbors and not an issue. Pastor Turtle lives right behind us. He's uh 20 feet from our fence. We get along great. He's pastor the church next door. We've got another church on the other side with a school. No problems. Occasionally some of our residents would go over there for church, but that's it. Uh they play basketball on the church's basketball court. They exercise in the the backyard. And I told pastor, "Everybody's injured." He that's good with me. So we're good neighbors. And we have a question from Commissioner Person. Floor is yours.

Well, it's um it's not necessarily a question, I guess, but I feel like I owe it to you. We had a great meeting. I owe it to the people of Pan Lake uh who I represent at the county level. Um I keep having Pastor Wright words in my head uh how we need places like this. uh is warranted, is needed, but I also know that there is a drug rehab place in the immediate vicinity of Pan Lake and Tall timber and Greenwood Acres. And as a veteran, I understand how important that mental health is, but you know, I have to have empathy. I also have empathy with the residents. So, um, I'm torn right now and it's it's it's I feel the sentiments of my fellow commissioners and my my fellow commissioner at the end, you know, I know he spoke on density. The area is 7 acres, but this structure is not 7 acres. Correct.

It's 11,000 ft. Right. So, the the building itself is not 7 acres. Uh, but the land itself is. So again, I feel like I owe it to the people here to let y'all know what I'm going through and to let you know what I'm going through and I yield. If I may question, Commissioner Russell, was that you, Commissioner Russell? Yes. Okay. Is this a drug rehab center? No, never will be. We're not licensed for that. Is there any drug use permitted on the premises? No. In fact, we screen residents and if we suspect it, they will be discharged.

So then the assumption can be made that the concerns of the community are related solely to the drug rehab facility that is in the neighborhood which is not like the facility that you are proposing. That's correct. And if the drug rehab had the same staffing ratio we had, they wouldn't have a problem. Thank you.

I would like to comment on that. I believe that one of the concerns is not the fact that you're not a drug rehab place. I believe the fact there's going to be two facilities in the immediate vicinity of neighborhoods or residential areas. So I don't think that is the actual concern that you're will or will not be a drug rehab center. I believe is the fact that u the two different locations right there next to each other. I just want to make that for the record. So two dissimilar uses being next to each other is somehow a cause for concern. Correct. In a residential in a residential area. Yes, sir. Well, it's not strictly a residential area because there are other commercial uses and other planned commercial developments in the area. Where are the other commercial developments in

north and south? where immediately north and south 0131 PR that's planned residential that's a large residential development and then there's the one immediately to the north PDC there's also a PDC that's a planned district commercial there is no medical slashmental facility in those areas that you just mentioned uh there is one right next to Greenwood Acres. And we have this proposed item here. This is this is a commercial use whether it's medical or mental health.

You may you see you see it how you see it. I see it how I see it. The residency how they see it. So I understand what you're saying. Nevertheless, I also just want to caution us since we're we're talking about it. Again, the fact that it's a medical facility and that it serves disabled folks cannot be the basis. Great. For a denial at all. Thank Thank you. Or else or else we'll get in another lawsuit, which will be another problem. So, just keep that in mind.

That's a good point, Cameron. And let me interject, gentlemen. I appreciate both of y'all's standpoints on this. And Mr. Holman, this this is what makes it difficult. And I'm probably going to go to staff just to confirm for the record, but um you know everything structurally is is sound uh you know as far as following the the book codes and rules. I think what we have here today is more maybe of an ethical standpoint of the community as far as and I know it's nothing is 100% guaranteed when you're dealing with business but how can they have some uh insurance that um you know they feel safe in their own communities right I mean what what can what I guess what I think what the board is looking for uh in a lot of points is uh what um you know Yeah. What can uh the gardens do to have some insurance? I say, "Hey, we're going to make sure we have security out there day and night. We're going to make sure if anything goes wrong, we have XYZ on standby." You know what I mean? I mean, things policies that can be implement put in place and implemented, you know, for the shity of the community because it's not just about, you know, the business. The business happened to be in the community. Does that make sense? So I think the board and we can't mandate you but what we're trying to do is trying to see what skin in the game can the board do to have some assurance so that the community can feel comfortable number one and number two you you don't have to worry about XYZ. Now we understand speculations are just speculation so we're not arguing that point but the community is looking for they've already experienced one issue with the detox center right. Yes sir. So what they're looking for is saying, "Okay, now we having the gardens come in. What can what can you do different? What can be done so they can have a level of insurance that they feel some sense of safety when they have their children or grandchildren out there or themselves in their home?"

Sure. I think that's what the board is looking for in this instance. And may I interject and just to just to touch back touch on that one as well and this goes to the residents as well. Is there anything that can be done to come to a happy median? because I know you're good people and I these people do good work. So,

you know, Commissioner Berson, I want to say this and hold on for you before the residents speak because we we try to be uh we try to be understanding and respectful here, but what we want to do is we want to keep things in order. And what we want to do is so each and every commissioner up here can have a full understanding, a thorough understanding so they can make a choice and and they can have a vote that they can have all of the uh information and facts uh present. Okay. So, thank you all for for bearing with us. Sorry about that. We want to make sure. So, um, Mr. Hovven, I think that's what we're trying to understand from you and and your team. Okay. You all you threw a bunch at me, but I'll try to regroup. No, let me Do you do I need to restate kind?

No, I think I have it. Um, uh, I'll tell you one thing. Um, as we were looking at properties all around, um, one of them, there was a homeless situation already there on the site. empty buildings, empty locations. That's a magnet for homeless. If we don't buy it and close on it, you're able to see pup tents behind there. Couple dozen of them. Um this we're going to put this thing to use. An empty building doesn't do any good for anybody. It's um you know I I'm sympathetic to the owners uh that are selling it now, but uh they're not going to be doing the landscape the upkeep on it any more than they have to to maintain the value. We're we're going to make it look really nice security. If we've got to hire a security guard, have them drive by, keep keep track of things, maybe that will enhance the neighborhood. Um we're willing to do that. Um, I don't want anybody in that neighborhood to be worried about things. Uh, I I know they've already got uh security issues. I I see the Facebook post about breakins and cars. I see lots of homes already have bars on the windows and doors. So, it's not because of us. There were existing problems, but we will not contribute to the existing problems. It's not going to be an issue.

Mr. Chair. Yes. Uh, I just wanted to point out, uh, since this is a conditional use, uh, the commission can impose conditions, uh, as they see fit on this application. Thank you for the for the record for that, Brad. And also, Brad, uh, question for you. Uh, Z, I mean, this this, uh, action item here, Z-10188, they met all of the criterias. Is that correct? They did for this. Okay. Yes, sir.

All right. So, I mean, that's some good information to know for all the commissioners up here. If if we have any uh type of conditions that uh you know needs to be uh for this vote, whether we disapprove or approve it, I mean, definitely I would love to hear that. If any of the commissioners have any conditions that they feel that it's necessary or deemed to be necessary, I'm I would be open and love to hear that. Commissioner Brown.

Well, I guess I have to lean to our attorney because I've heard different things on this that commission can impose those, but I've also heard that we can't make folks do things at the podium because that becomes pressurized. I don't know if that's the right word for it. That becomes pressure on the applicant. Can you clarify where that we are that please? So, there's there is a trying to make sure I know I'm answering the right question here, but so there is um and I may have asked the wrong one. So,

yeah. No, no, no. That's totally fine. So, in in the sense that uh our by I think it's our bylaws um it's either the bylaws of the code state that a significant amendment to an application cannot be made from the podium. Um but in the conditional use uh part of the code the the board I mean the board the commission itself can um you know during during this time you know if you guys have a condition that you want to put on the application that's not already recommended by staff or take one away for that matter. Um you you you could do that for a conditional use permit. So so as long as it's reasonable. Right. So for example and I'm going to go to what you said a minute ago here.

We couldn't say you've got a added like four house four or more buildings to this because that major change but like you said maybe you'd be willing to get additional security there to like drive around the neighborhood to help out with things someone like that could be added to the to the thing if the applicant was willing to do it my as long like I said as long as it meets that reasonleness you know I mean if you it it would depend on the detail of what exactly you were to be asking there but yeah in in theory Yes. All right. Yes. Please come to the podium. State your name for the record and the floor is yours.

Well, my name is Georgia. I was the one on the video and uh I just wanted to I guess address the safety issue. That's where we keep coming back to is safety. What do we do at the gardens to ensure safety? Sean Brown is our program administrator and he might want to join me up here. But every day there's always potential when we are human beings to get frustrated, to get angry, to need a timeout. Um it is something that we discuss in morning meetings. It's something that's on our um rights restrictions committee because we do have to sometimes restrict people's individual rights. If just like with a diabetic, if their blood sugar is 450, they need to restrict their carbohydrate intake so their glucose doesn't go too high. Um, so those are the things that our program administrators um will be constantly looking at. I myself am an RN. I'm in and out of the buildings. My mother is a volunteer at the gardens. She helps with the garden every day. Every Does she come every day or every other day?

Every other day. Um, and so I know sometimes there's a stigma around what a therapeutic community can look like. Um, but the folks that we screen, I can't say that there's never been an episode of um of behavior in their past, but most of our folks are in their 20s and 30s. Um, and we do not take people um that's part of the screening process. That's what we look at. We we are trained as behavioral health technicians, program directors, um to to deescalate. We use a strategy called um uh

I'm going we're going Monday. Handle with care.

Handle with care. And y'all, it's because I'm getting trained myself. Sh is such an expert on it. and we we are refining our program because we want to be able to deescalate situations and myself as an owner, that's something that we we we have not really struggled with. Um I've had one person in the last year and a half that um the police were called on who did not become violent with me. It was because he got upset with another person that lived there. And so he and I walked outside um and the police had already been called, but it's not something that happens all the time. Um I heard the community say that there's constantly ambulances, fire trucks, and police cars, and that's not our situation. Um Shan, do you want to speak to any safety issues?

Good afternoon. Uh my name is Sean Brown. Oh, sorry. Please state your name for the record.

Sean Brown. Um, I've heard everything that the people in the community have saying and it's heartfelt. As a father, as a grandfather, I understand it. But I do understand the passion to have this do this job with people with disabilities and mental illness. And we know that's needed. I understand the cry out for the neighborhood. But I've been with these people for a while now and I've dealt with them. And then like I said, the screening process, me, I make it very intense. I'm taking people that want to change their lives, not go out and commit crimes on the daily. I'm taking people that want to go back home to their families. They could be mothers, fathers, uncles, grandfathers, grandmothers to make a difference. We have people that's going to college every day. We have people that are working jobs that are passionate about changing their lives and not coming through making a disgruntled neighborhood. And I hate that the Haven is put this stigma on us that we're going to come in and do the same thing that they're doing. We're nothing like the detox center. Those people are coming down. We're taking people from the hospital who've been stabilized are ready to move on to the next part of their lives. and we're help say we have staff. We're monitoring these people on the daily. We're rounding. We have a daily schedule. And I think the point that we're missing here and I hear the people talking about safety. We have structure. And that's one of the most key components of running this facility is the structure that we have. Knowing where these people are and what they're doing on a daily basis. I can pinpoint when I'm in the facility where someone is when they ask me where they are. I have a pen on that

and I'm going to verify that because whenever I come in to give injections, I can say, "Hey, Sean, where's I won't call his name?" Oh, he's down in the dining room.

And one thing that I will add to this as well, nothing is ever guaranteed and I don't want to put a guarantee on anything that I can do this or I can prevent this from happening. But I can tell you that whatever facility that we have, I'll put my best foot forward in training that person to be like me and assuring that they're putting the community and everybody around interest at heart. I can guarantee that that I'll put my foot best foot forward to make sure everything is going in compliance and doing what we need to do from a standpoint of me. I can't speak for everybody else that works for me, but I will train them and give them the skills and the knowledge they need to be able to support the community that we serve.

And Shan's the one that told us about Handle with Care. Um just and it was because Oh, sorry.

Sean is the one that um he was there the night that we visited with all the folks that live in the neighborhood and they had such safety concerns. Shun said, "Why don't we add handle with care?" And that's what we're doing. Um, and it's like I said, I'm a nurse of since 1989, but um, but I'm going to go myself as a co-founder of this organization. And that way it is from top down. We can ensure that everybody that works with the gardens is fully trained on deescalation techniques. And that came straight from Shun.

Yeah, I think we I think the the board has kind of heard from both y'all. truly appreciate it. Um, so if if none of the commissioners have any other questions for you all, could I have say one more thing? Sure. Go ahead.

Um, one of the I I heard them the first night and I heard it again. Why this property? Our accreditation and I brought this in case anybody wants a copy of it. But the reason why we want that property is because we are accredited with a body called CQL. It's the quality on um council of leadership. And there's five different things that we have to ensure. And one of those things is my community. And we promise as the gardens to do these things. We pro promise to let people use their environments to live in integrated environments to let people interact with other members of the community and to let people participate in the life of the community. And that is how come this property, excuse me, is so valuable is because it is it does touch a neighborhood and it is on going to be one of the these days on the um master plan for the city for the bike trail. And so that's one of our things that we're supposed to be doing as an organization to help people in their community. And that's all.

Okay. All right. So, um thank you. So, any other questions or comments from any other commissioners? And I just want to I want to say this. Um, we hearing from the board and I'm glad that we have a a very good discussion on this because I and we appreciate take our hat off to you. We know this is it's a difficult task and a difficult job and we understand the community wants to be safe and they want to have a sense of understanding. And I would just say this there would if I just have to if I lived in a neighborhood, what would I want? Safety would be number one definitely, you know, for for for my child and what would make me feel comfortable and I think one of the gentlemen stated he said well you know security and if it was up you know to me solely which is not but I would want to see some security presence there day and night just to have a sense of security I think it's there for the for the building uh on your property and as well as if if the community understands that you have a security in the neighborhood that's driving that could also you know bring down you know for understanding oh wait I'm not going in that community are causing havoc or harm because they have security present. They're driving around etc. So the whole property is safe, the whole neighborhood is safe and it has some sense of security. So that's that's my sense on it. I would love to hear any other commissioners they have a a statement or something like that on that that yes, this would be a condition for them to have a security or one security presence day and night. here.

I guess what I would have is a question to the applicant. What What are you willing to do to address this issue? Because I know again like most up here, I'm very torn on this because again, I I'm a psychologist by training. I appreciate what you guys do, the criticality of it. I also hear from the neighbors and let's face it, let's not kid ourselves. They've been burned by this other facility. So my question to you is what are y'all willing to do to show and again we can't force anything upon you but what are you willing to do to come up here and say look we'll do this that this so what what what are you willing to do for that

one of the things that we have agreed to do that we don't do anywhere else is install a keypad nowhere else in Texas and in Sherwood there are no keypads there's a door chime that whenever it notifies us when folks come mostly people come in um because our people don't want to get out. They want to be there. But that's one of the concessions that we already agreed to do is to put a keypad on. I just have one comment.

Um it seems like the problem is the detox facility. Are do they have security there? Because I don't think it's fair for Okay. I just don't think it's fair that, you know, this applicant is paying for security when the problem has not been addressed at this particular location. Um the the problem is really at the other location that they don't have any responsibility for.

Could we share the information that Ed brought tonight that you could um call? You don't want to. Okay. I was thinking that if they called the state because you know you get enough complaints the state comes out and I was just thinking. Yes. Sure.

All right. So, um Mr. Hov, did you have another statement to make race? Um we can get a security service. We can have them out there with the cars where people will see that yellow light when they come in and they'll be out there watching our building, too. And that will enhance the security for the neighbors. If I was a bad guy looking for a house to break into and I saw a security car sitting there, I'd probably go up the street. Yeah.

Okay. Uh, does any other commissioners have any other statements? I was just going to ask is there are there specifics related to that? Is it a just a patrol service who would come and uh patrol your facility every four hours? I'm just looking for be available and they can sit out there in the parking lot with the lights going. That's great. And we would it would be a roving security. We can arrange that and it would work both ways. That way they're close by if we need them and they're also a presence for the neighborhood. I feel I feel comfortable with that. I mean then the motion so yeah the motion would include include the conditions

the condition the applicant is willing to do. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Um I'm sorry. Yes matter of fact. Yes. I'm I'm gonna let you be the representative and you come up and make a statement here for one minute. So either one either one who like to come up come up to the podium please

um our opposition to this is not about their disabilities it's about the fear for our safety. Um what we'd like to have in that in that location is another church. That's what we'd like to have. Um for as much as they say they will do this and do that and put a keypad, accidents happen. We don't feel like we should be the product of that accident. We have enough problems with everything else that's going around in that neighborhood. And we feel like as taxpayers and for our property values and our peace of mind for our families, our grandkids, that is not what we need in our neighborhood. That is not what's going to help me sleep good at night. I'm single. All I got is me and a dog. And I don't want to have to worry about if she starts barking that somebody from their facility or somebody from the detox. We got enough problems already uh with the detox. We don't want our neighborhood to become a facil a place for facilities. And you know, we start off with the detox. Now we got people with mental issues. Then what's next? I mean prisoners. Are we gonna have prisoners in the next facility?

And I just want you to make really it's just for one minute not to go on. I thought you had a statement or a question. That that's my statement.

And and I would say you can you can head back to your seat and not talk. Thank you. But and yeah, I know we about I would love a motion here in just a minute. I want to make a statement and and and what's so tough about us and this board, you know, we're not therapists. We're not, you know, some of us attorneys up here, but uh we're a commission and we go by certain um guidelines and we go by certain, you know, rules and and policies, right? So, we're looking at certain criterias of which the criteria is met, but also we like to be well, how can we make sure that there is a cohesiveness to this? There's a partnership, right? If if you got a business coming in or or some type of entity coming in with the community, we like to make certain that everybody doesn't get what they want in anything or in life. But how can we get something that at least um that everybody can feel a little bit of comfort, right? And so it's it get difficult for us. Yes. But how can we at least minimize that risk? And if we can minimize or even mitigate that risk, you know, by if the community is given a little bit, the company has given a little bit and we come to some type of supportive me medium, right? And if if if they're saying, "Hey, we want to put security out there, not only does it make it safe for their property or the or the detox property, which is unfortunate and we can't talk about that, but it also makes it safe for the community." That's what we're trying to look at. How can we come to some type of respectful medium and move forward with this? So, uh, if they're willing to do do a little bit and the community is willing to do a little bit, that's what we're trying to find. I get it. I understand detox, which we can't discuss, is unfortunate. It's kind of like the the bad apple to spoil the bunch, right? But if they're willing to do certain things that meet the criteria, we have to look at that into effect uh, as well. So, with that being said, I would love to entertain a motion with the conditional um the conditions that the applicant stated that they will

utilize by having a security patrol. Mr. Chair, I make a motion that we approve staff's recommendations of approval of the requested conditional use permit and file number Z-10188 subject to compliance of the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs D and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report and the two stated conditions. First, that the conditional use permit will be for the gardens facility and operators only and will not be transferred to another user. And second, with the applicant's uh permission that there will be 24-hour security services provided on the premises.

Second. Uh I have a motion and a second. May I get a roll call vote, please?

Sorry. Wait for the mic to come on. Commissioner Brown. Yes. Bernard, yes. Hart, yes. Hodgees.

He stepped away. He stepped away. I'm sorry. Um, McDonald. Yes. Person, come back to me. Yes, sir. Russell. Hi. Sad. Yes. Treble. Yay. Backter. Yes. Vickers. Yes. Coming back to Commissioner Pson. No. Motion's approved.

Thank you. And thank you for everybody coming out for this. I know this was difficult. Um, and I would definitely say for the neighborhood, for the community, as well as the gardens, for y'all to keep communication, keep the lines of communication open, talk and see how y'all can definitely cooperate and definitely come together and making sure that you know that the community is safe. Thank you all. We will give a minute before we get started to the next item for everybody to depart. The next item on the regular agenda, how long you want to take time?

Yeah. Well, we're going to give just a quick minute here. As a matter of fact, is because that one took some time here, about an hour and a half. Uh I'm going to uh allow let's take five and for just a quick bathroom break and uh we will reconvene here in five minutes. I left on [Music] Hey. [Music] Heat. Hey, Heat. [Music] [Music]

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[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] We want to get back uh get back started. I think we have all the commissioners back here.

All right. So, what we're going to do is um we got item number 15 and item number 17. So, I think there I think I see one walking down now. The other one here. So, let's go ahead. And can you please kind of you see in the hallway um the turn? Okay. There's a line. There's a line. That's fine. Okay. Really? Okay. All right. We're going to give just another about 30 seconds. Okay. All right. As a matter of fact, as uh item number 15, the master company is the applicant present. All right. Please make your way to the podium and we're going to start with the reading. Monty, if you will.

Item number 15, file number Z 9858A, Master Company, PCD, 9911 West Markham Street. The applicant is proposing to reszone this 0.22 acre property from 03 to PCD to allow for the use of an existing 1520 ft office building for office space and food services. The existing building will be split into two suites A and B. Suite A will be 895 square feet be consolidated into a cafe, bakery, ice cream and pizza restaurant with a minor area for storage and suite B will be 625 ft and used for office space. The property is located in 03 zoning again of one-story brick frame 1520t office building is near the middle of the property and this is at the corner of Markham and Oak. The proposed business will operate Monday through Sunday, 6:00 am to midnight, maximum of two employees. The 89 895 square foot space expected to have 15 person seating capacity, and there will not be a drive-through window. Two concrete parking areas exist on the property. There are eight spaces uh in front or north of the building and four spaces in the rear. Access drives from Oak Lane serve both parking areas. Section 36502 of the city zoning ordinance requires one parking space per 500 square feet for office and one parking space for 100 square feet each 100 square feet for restaurants. Uh the proposed parking number of parking spaces conforms with that. A commercial dumpster will be placed at the northwest corner of the building and be screened and secured. A fence will be constructed along the southern property line. Site lighting will be lowle directed away from adjacent properties. Staff is not supportive of the requested reszoning from 03 to PCD. Staff does not feel that it represents an appropriate transition to into a single family residential area. South and southeast of the

property zoned R2 consisting of single family homes. Staff feels that a business conforming to 03 would be a better would better serve as a transition from Markham Street, a main arterial roadway into the residential area. Staff does not feel it is appropriate to introduce commercial use at this location, a relatively small property adjacent to the single family use. Staff also has concerns with the proposed hours of operation and parking. Although the number of parking spaces conforms with typical ordinance requirements, staff does not feel there's adequate paved area in the rear of the building to allow appropriate vehicle maneuvering. Therefore, staff recommends denial of the requested PCD reszoning. Thank you, Monty. applicant, please state your name for the moment.

Uh my name is Pavitran. Uh I'm not going to take too much of your time. I know a lot of things. So what I'm requesting is uh uh I'm from the location 9911 West Markhamm Street. I'm asking to reszone from a office zone for a commercial use, neighborhood use. So the proposal what I have is like I'm trying to put like a small cafe, coffee, food like bakery, ice creams. There are schools around, good neighborhoods around. they need a demand for uh like a store where they can go they can get their coffees, donuts in the morning and kids can get their ice creams. So like mentioned uh we are not in a place to put a drive-thru. Already the property is secured with the fence for 6 ft and uh all the ways from the left side right side everything is blocked and uh we provide like eight parking spots in the front of the building and there is four parking spot in the re rear side of the building. So mostly like we not completely utilizing the building. Uh we like doing a two two suites. One for office use like a small area for 600 ft² and plus and rest of the 875 ft² is for the cafeteria area. There are a lot of office present there and there's a school like few miles away and um like say like next to me there is already a retail uh store. They have tobacco and grocery stores and there's also a market like a strip center around there. It's like zone C. So and like I I have a report from ASBDC say saying like there is a demand for good restaurant and cafeteria if you are like I would like to pass if you all want to take a look at it. So this exactly for that point uh what what are the demands? There are still like more demands in that area which could satisfy the neighborhoods and um and I'm not on the uh the entry and exit is not facing Markham. It's in the Oakland. It's a dead end. So I won't think like there will be too much traffic problems getting in and out. Um and I'm

requesting the board to give me permission and um to change it to a C zone like C2 zone like a neighborhood store not like a big commission. We're not going to build anything big or anything. Just going to use that purpose for different I tried to lease it for office and everything but it did not work. I've been uh doing it for last two years and I also presented this last year in front of board to and got approved and was like lot of things were changed when it comes to like they were they thought like it could be a gas station but no it's like no and there is no beer sales because there's a church and school nearby so it's going to be a small neighborhood place where you can get your snacks and coffee the office people who want to go to the office they can grab their coffee and donuts in the morning and like kids coming out from school, they can get their ice cream. So, it's going to be like a small in-n-out store. This is my proposal.

All right. Thank you. Since there are not any cards in opposition at this particular time, I'm going to open the floor up for the commissioners to ask you any particular questions or make any comments. Question staff. Um, this is zone 03 right now, right? Correct. um crim isn't there like a provision in 03 for like a small cafe or something and how is this different than what's being described and then why is a PCD and not just a straight I'm just trying to understand the difference

well the 03 office zoning category has what is called accessory uses right a restaurant is an accessory use like and like a drugstore you know small um commercial uses are considered accessory uses, but that's only allowed in 10% of an office building. Okay. So, it's because it's this being the primary use. It's not an accessory used to being used for corre correct. All right. Okay. Thank you. All right. What is it now? What is the building being used for now? Uh, it's going to be a cafeteria, coffee. Uh, it is just like a vacant like location like

Go ahead. its previous use was office. Okay. The previous and I'm not sure how many commissioners are familiar with this area of town, but there's a lot of retail and commercial uses within spitting distance. Dave Cigars is literally across the street. There's a strip center right on the other side of Dave's hardware. Yeah, there's hard there's hotels right up the street at Markham and Shackleford. I mean, this is this is a commercial And what are your operation hours again? It be Monday through Sunday 6:00 to midnight.

Yes sir. We trying to be do like because if we provide like donuts and coffee we have to be early morning and like uh say like ice creams and everything mostly we we trying to open as like Markham but every day vehicle per day is 24,000 plus vehicle but there's a survey saying like after 8 it's going to be going down. So we cutting down the staff like just to keep if anybody need anything like till open till like trying to be till midnight but like if not we're going to close early. So basically like other operations other stores are open till 11:00 so we going to match with them. So that's what right now there is like because we did not get into operation we don't know how it is going to be but comparing the subway the uh there is another pizza place next to in the strip mall they all are open till 11:00. So maybe I we going to be open till 11.

Okay. Any other questions? All right. If not, uh I just have one thing to say. Sorry, Commissioner McDonald. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I remember when this application was brought up a couple of years ago. Um and there was an issue with the use of the driveway next door. Is there a You said there was a fence. No, ma'am. Actually, we closed it. It's completely fenced. There is no going to be no drive-thru or anything. So it's completely like a six feet fence with a complete gate. So and it's like you know if we need to do that we need to uh make a more big remodeling anything. So we don't have idea of doing drive-thru or anything.

Any other questions? If not I would love to entertain a motion. Mr. Mr. Chair, I make a motion that we approve applicants request of reszoning and file number Z-9858- A from 03 to PCD, the exception of SAS recommendation for denial. Second. Have a motion to second. I get a roll call vote, please. Yes, sir. Commissioner Mor, yes. Bernard, yes. Hard. Yes. Hodes. McDonald. Yes. Person. Yes. Russell I Samad yes Trimble yay Baxter yes

Vickers yes motion's approved thank you applicant y'all have a great day thank you sir

all right and our last item on the regular agenda for today is item number 17 Z-1012A- is the applicant present please all right the applicant is making their way to the front uh Monty if you can provide the reading please 17 file number D 10,128A. This is the Ordorf number one PDR located at the southeast corner of East 21st Street and Bragg Street. The Aquin is proposing to reszone this 0.16 acre property from R4 to PDR. The property is proposed to be replatted into five lots. Then each lot will contain a single family residential unit. The applicant will not reside on the property and intends to market these for lease or sale. The building will the building will contain five two-story single family units. Each unit will be 1320 square feet in area with a patio area along the north property line facing east 21st Street. Section 36502 of the city zoning ordinance typically requires one parking space for each single family residence. Uh staff does not support the parking plan and suggest that the applicant provide off- streetet parking as required by code. As as uh proposed, there is no off- streetet parking. The site plan shows the building will have a 21 ft setback from the west property line, 8 ft from the east property line, 5t from the north, and 10 ft from the south property lines. The building will not exceed a height of 35 ft. The applicant notes that typical building materials will include asphalt shingles, a brick facade, and three sides being vinyl siding. Uh the applicant did not provide a response to staff regarding required landscaping on the property. Uh staff does not support the proposed PDR reszoning. Although proposed development will not be out of character with the development pattern in the area, staff feels that the proposed site development is overdeveloped in a manner that will not allow the development to comply with off- streetet the typical off- streetet parking requirement.

Although the parking plan will create a minor increase in traffic, staff feels the proposed parking plan will have an adverse impact on the surrounding properties, city services, and emergency vehicles that may need to access property along the ride ofway. Therefore, staff recommends denial of the requested PDR zoning. Thank you, Monty. Applicant, please state your name for the record.

Yeah, I'm Vernon Williams with Garnet Engineering. I'm going to touch on a couple of the issues that Monty just brought up and then I'm going to pass this to Mike Wondor, the developer on this. Um I think the Monty made a comment about us not being responsive on the landscaping. I think that had to do with who was responsible for the landscaping. Um, we plan to sell these homes and you know, each individual owner will own a portion of this lot and they'd be responsible for their own landscaping on that. And then um I think staff has said that they don't like the street parking, but you know, I can tell you that there's more than enough room along high along 21st Street um to support five spaces which are needed for these. There's also the potential to park on Brag Street which would provide some additional spots. I'll turn it over to Mike now. so much.

Yeah, thanks guys. Appreciate the opportunity to u share this project with you guys. Uh I'm Mike Hornorf. I live in Pedaway. I've lived there for 11 years. I'm uh raising a 7-year-old and a four-year-old in this neighborhood. Uh I plan to live in this neighborhood for another um 18 minus four years. So another 14 years at at a bare minimum. Uh we plan on uh raising our kids through high school uh in this neighborhood. So, uh, it's, um, uh, with that in mind that, uh, we're wanting to, you know, develop in a way that, uh, we think is appropriate, uh, for raising our our children in. Um, all right. So, that said, I I've got a the handout that you guys are all all looking at. I'm uh just going to kind of share with you a few of the project goals. Um, so just as a as a businessman, I I can see that the workforce has largely been overlooked. Uh, we're not uh doing a a great job um providing, you know, something closer to workforce housing. Uh so we're trying to increase the inventory of attainable housing through lowerpriced one and twobedroom homes. Uh the average new construction home size is about 2200 ft². And I know that this uh some of those were uh were showing that they were 1,300 maybe 1,100 ft². This is like we're we're what we're seeking is uh a site plan for us to um you know develop out of. So uh just because it's showing,00 ft um don't assume that these are going to be like 2200 foot houses or 3600 foot houses. Uh the goal of this project uh would be to build um primarily one-bedroom uh houses. Uh so uh we're trying to close the first-time uh home buyers age gap. Uh currently the average first-time home buyer is 39. Um

in the 1960s it was 26. Uh trying to maintain the economic diversity of our neighborhood. Uh the current median sales price for new construction in Little Rock is 447,000. Uh these these homes target is sub $150,000. So, um, and just a brief note, uh, about the I've read about this, uh, they call the firefighters test, like is that the housing that we're building as a city, um, does it meet the firefighters test? And that like can our public servants, can our firefighters, can they afford to uh, buy the homes that we're building? And um uh and and currently we're we're failing the firefighters test in that the homes that that we're building at 4 at at a median price of $447,000 like they're they're not um attainable uh to our public servants. Um so the main concern is street parking. Uh we intentionally made these we're asking for uh 22 feet wide at a minimum uh lots to accommodate uh a you know single car which is per code to uh you have to provide parking for at least one vehicle. Uh the street parking is already there. It's safe. It's legal. It's free. Uh currently nothing anybody could develop this today and it wouldn't you know they could park seven cars around it. Uh that's uh that's really not what is uh being voted on tonight, but um so um I lost my train of thought. Uh street parking is uh oh, it's part of the culture here in Pedawway. Um it has been practiced uh since the invent of the automobile. I personally street park. I do it uh intentionally having young kids. We live near Rockefeller and uh a lot of the other parents are often in a hurry to get to Rockefeller and but my kids like to run across the street to their best friend's house and so I intentionally uh park in the street and then my neighbor he also parks in the street and we create a little bit of a

pinch point there uh that naturally calms the traffic and then obvious obviously creates a steel barrier um between the the cars and my kids who might be playing in the front yard. Um this is not uh you know a new concept to our neighborhood. I just put a couple examples um that are here in Pedawway. Uh this is a quadplex that's on Scott and um East 16th Street. There's no off- streetet parking at this uh location. And then also the sixplex that's on Commerce and East 15th. There's no off- streetet parking. So this isn't a new concept for our neighborhood. Um, I'm I uh one of the neighbors who are most closely impacted uh told me today that they sent an email supporting this project. Um and um yeah, I'm just uh open for any any questions.

All right. Thank you. So, at this time, I'm open the floor up for any uh questions by any of the commissioners.

All right. Thank you so much. Questions? Yeah. If we have one, we'll bring you back up. I guess for staff, I guess the main reason that uh staff was not supportive of this was primarily the parking. Uh yes, Mr. Chair, that is correct. Okay. All right. Um any other questions or statements from any of the commissioners? I'm gonna ask one question, Mr. Wondorf. Just in terms of cut away, how many I mean, what percentage right now of of houses that are built in that neighborhood, what percentage have off- streetet parking? What percentage of houses are on street parking?

I don't Yeah, I wouldn't be able to tell you. I mean, I would say that every 100% of the houses that I built, well, minus one actually. I didn't mean to, but when I first moved in the neighborhood, I was able to um sneak in one there that I did not provide off streetet parking on. But um almost 100% of the houses that I've built, so we're at 90 plus units in the neighborhood have had uh off- streetet parking. We did provide off streetet parking on I remember what I was going to tell you. Uh the 22 feet, like we intentionally made them 22 feet wide because that accommodates a street parking uh space. So, if there, you know, I understand like you want to get one car off of uh the street, but you would you would just lose your street parking by pulling the car off of the street. Um you would reduce your buildable area and um and then also you've got, you know, five automobiles that would, you know, be uh crossing that public rideway, the sidewalks, etc.

Hey, Mike, sir, that's not commerce on 15th. What house is that? The sixplex. Yeah, that's not commerce and 15. Um, the sixplex is on commerce and east 15th. Yeah. Does Can anybody is CBS fact checkers here? Can anybody help me? Can we pull up? Commerce and East 15th is the zigzag house, the vacant lot, the church. The zigzag house is a six bucks, right? That's a yellow house. Oh, I'm sorry. That the writing for that one is to the right. That's the forplex on Scott. Okay, Scott,

I apologize. I'm uh not a great PowerPoint present. Like I haven't done PowerPoint since I was uh in high school and I remember getting an award for PowerPoints, but um I have like 2007 PowerPoint, you know what I mean? Like that's how old it is. So I apologize. Not the best presentation. Um not winning on that. But Mr. Chair, go ahead. May staff ask a question, please. Um, since you're utilizing basically the entire frontage of this lot for parking, you have noted that standard city trash pickup will be utilized. Where are you proposing that these residents for each of these five units put their trash can for pickup?

Uh, I mean, we you just you just push it out to where your car is on the trash day. I mean, we deal with it regularly. Um, and I don't know, it happens. It happens at my house. I park on the street and I push the the trash can out. I do push it out to the length of the car to make it that much easier. Keep it where do I keep my trash? On the side of my house when it's not being picked up. Where do these homes put their trash bins? I would recommend that they put them out, you know, where they park their car. So, just leave them on the side of the street. Yeah. For trash day all week long. Oh. Um I suppose they could, you know, put it around back and then drag it I mean, that's where mine was for up until just recently.

So, the three units in the middle, they'll have to go all the way around the block to grab their trash and then drag it all the way back around the block. Yes, sir. Yeah, that's what they'd have to do. Do you think they would not buy the house because they would have to do that? Like, do you see that a problem? Like, I mean, if you're trying to buy a new house and you're looking for houses, good houses in $150,000 range and you're like, "Man, I was so close. I was going to buy it, but I got to drag the trash can all the way around the house." Like, I see convenience. I understand that you wouldn't, but I I I talked to a lot of buyers and uh and that's that's typically that's not the thing that like deters them from buying a home,

but I appreciate I appreciate the consideration about trying to get your trash out, but like they're trying to get into new homes. Like that's the that's the problem that we really have like more affordable, more attainable houses that are within a a price range that people can afford.

No, I got it. That was a good point by Commissioner Russell. Thank you, Commissioner Russell. That was a good point. Um I want to ask for staff and then maybe uh pick it back off to the applicants. Um I see they have a layout for is it five? So five homes. Did did staff make a recommendation say hey if maybe if you cut out one of the homes now I understand that may kind of put in go into their profit and it may not be feasible for the applicant. Did staff make a recommendation say, "Hey, if you take out one of the homes, then you can add maybe some drive-thru, a conditional type of drive-thru for parking or something like that or anything." We only suggested that all street parking be provided, we didn't suggest how, okay,

that might might happen. And and to to further Commissioner Russell's issue with the trash cans and the three middle units, not only are they going to be dragging them all the way around, they've got to cross other people's lots to get there. And I'm guessing like with any other residential lots, if some of these people want to fence their rear yards, then there is not going to be an avenue to get it from the rear yard to the street. They're going to have to be kept somewhere else. Okay, that's why. So, back to the applicant. Um, and I know I suppose we would have to create some type of an easement for trash can access in order to prevent people from building a fence in order to get the trash out. And that's reasonable.

You kind of see where I think we're always going where the the question is leading down that road. Financially, I understand it may not be feasible like you trying to maximize your bill so you can have some type of justifiable return. I get it. Have y'all looked this in? And hey, instead of building five, we would build four and we can add parking or all these trash.

Well, actually, yeah, we we we originally planned to present this as four um and then got to looking at it like but there was just all this unused land. And at the end of the day, like I don't think that that is, you know, personally, I don't think that that's going to make that big of a difference. Like I I would concede uh one of these units in order to pursue this project. So don't think like I'm like you know just feet stuck in the mud over it. Um but uh you know just from a a land use perspective I thought like well this is you know there's actually another 22 feet that we could u get another when on there we can which you know and I am a for-profit developer. Um but I I need you to look past that like I'm I'm trying to get down to a specific price point in order to meet a market's needs. Yeah. I I get it. Is that And that's kind of

Yeah, we get to spread the cost of the lot out over a fifth property if we were kind of the main reason if you can spread the cost out, you add and another one because I was thinking at first I understand the feasibility and I'm sure y'all did your studies on that to make it, hey, if we can build this cost, construction cost, timber, etc. We get it in some capacity. I mean, you could I mean, the way my mind works, it just makes the lot price on all five more inexpensive. You might could say, well, it makes the land free for the fifth one. Sort of. I mean, it just depends on how you want to get there. But for sure, it reduces the cost of each each home um the more more homes that you can build.

Well, just like my colleague down here, Commissioner Russell stated, you know, about making it, you know, um convenient, I should say. You know, you know, you go other people lots and property, etc. Being creative and how how do you go about that? Because I was thinking, okay, if you have four, maybe build a parking space that, you know, all of the tenants can park in that space. They have trash can. You can build like a little fence. You can build a trash can. You make it look nice and neat. You're a developer, so you get all of that. But then I know you're trying to maximize your cost structure. So, what we're trying to do is where's that happy medium? You know, how do we do that? You know, um, and I think Yes, sir. You know, that I think that's what the

the commissioners up here are trying to get a grasp for and and being creative. If that's something that you all can do, I'm sure possibly is that something that y'all have thought about. If so, we would love to hear that or share that with us. But it really is. Could you come come you come to the podium, please? Thank you. If you really go from four to five, it's not about how much money he makes. It's about lost opportunity because you only have four $150,000 houses in an area that needs them desperately instead of five. That's really that's really what it's about. No, we we get it and we get with the parking in that neighborhood. I'm sorry. Who?

It's an excellent point, but Mike, you and I don't agree on a lot. I I applaud what you're trying to do with this this development, but I think you're trying to overdevelop the lot. I think if you went to four, you could get the required parking on the alley for all four units. It's at a slope. It's doesn't matter. car. I I don't care if it's slope or not. You would also have an area for dedicated for trash. You'd have an area dedicated for all of your meters, all of your water heater. I mean, the development itself would be easier,

not only on the people that are going to live in these houses, whether they're tenants or whether they're homeowners, but then they also have a dedicated parking spot. You're still going to have on street parking. I'm I'm surprised that you are uh um digging in on Not on off on street parking. Professionally, I have to operate within the zoning code that we have. Well, but you're allowed to offer your personal opinion on street parking, right? Not while I'm sitting here. Oh, okay. It's not my job. All right. Right on. No, I respect that. If you want to get together after this, start changing zoning. I'm beer on me.

All right. Um Well, I mean, this is a good opportunity. I mean, with that said, this is a good opportunity. I mean that that would be and um uh staff and I have discussed like this is an interest of mine to see that zoning might you know change in this way and this is a good opportunity for the city to kind of um pilot this uh in a way like well let's see like what what type of issues are we going to get from uh this level of density you know you know trash you know clearly being how big of an issue does trash become for people who are like this is their first home you know like they don't even know that they're not even thinking about what type a problem strategy if you think they're just trying to get in their first home. If you wanted to if you wanted to have that type of discussion, I would recommend doing a traffic study on this property.

Mr. Chair, can Oh, I got uh Commissioner Hart and Commissioner Brown. Well, I I got just one quick comment. This is a small development on a small piece of property. And so, the way I sort of look at this is the free market is going to weed this out. If this if this doesn't work, you won't build anymore. Sure.

If this works and goes gang busters and you sell these and have them under contract as pre-builts, you'll be back wanting to build more. So, I don't if if this were a hundred units, I I would share some of these same concerns. But with this smaller development and then the the other thing is on the on the density issue, we it it's like we um we go back and forth as a commission on density when people when people spread out or or go out west because they want land. Um we're like, "Oh, well, you're abandoning the city and you you um it's urban sprawl." And then people come in and put houses together and create density. Oh, well, you don't have enough parking or there's no place for the trash can. I just I would I'm gonna be in favor of this and just let the market dictate whether or not we have more of this type development. Yeah.

Um, just for example, I mean, well, two examples. One, I'm sorry, hold Commissioner Brown has a question or statement. Follow up and I've got a little bit different view. I mean, I appreciate Commissioner Russell's he knows more about architecture than I do, but the part about like trash and some logistics here. I mean this looks very familiar to things like when I was in DC where you know you see them all over the place. Yes sir.

And the initial person who buys it not a big deal thinking about it when they try to resell it's an issue. So is there a plan you change whether it's four or five don't know don't care but is there a way to fix where things like the trash the meters but yeah you got to have a place for those. The street park doesn't concern me as much as a commissioner except for the code the code issue, but what's your plan to address that? Because otherwise you get stuff that can't be sold and then you know 10 years down the road sitting empty because somebody wants to buy them. So what's what's I'm sorry. What what's the plan? You said several things and you like what's your plan for little details that commissioners have brought up some of whom know more about architecture than I do.

I understand that right now you hadn't thought about them. That's okay. And you're right, for the first person, first-person buyer probably not gonna think about it because it's new. They're thinking it's great. There's not much in the neighborhood. 10 years from now, there's going to be more persons trying to sell it. They're going to think about this stuff. And again, let's have CN DC. You can go out to Alexandria, Virginia, and they're full of stuff just like this that sits empty because no fight because of these exact issues. What is your And so I'm thinking that way. What's your plan to address those things? Because what you don't want to do is do this and have it sit empty 10 years from now because you're the same issue of all the other empty spots there. So, is there a plan? So,

I think I I just I have not considered what what problems there might be 10 years from now um when that's just an honest like I just have not considered that. But I what I do know is that like what I'm proposing is stuff that I've seen all over the United States, all over uh Europe. Um, and that that's not always the situation 10 years from now. 10 years from now, they appreciate in value. And people who buy them understand that um there may be a couple things that are a little bit more cumbersome. They're going to have neighbors that are uh a 2-hour firewall away from them. Like there are things that are just less uh inviting as the the house that's on 40 acres out west. Um but uh these this is it's just more inventory, more opportunity for people to start climbing that ladder of upper mobility. Um, and and don't get me wrong, I really do appreciate the feedback. I I want to perfect this and I want to get better. Um, but this is uh this is our, you know, this is us kind of going in the direction of trying to serve this market that um, you know, from my perspective has just been overlooked for a very long time. No, we got a question from uh Commissioner.

Yeah, I used to live in an area homes just like this when I stayed in DC and and I I will look at my fellow commissioners when I ask this question. uh and yourself as far as the issues the issues that we are talking about with a simple concrete pathway suffice for push instead of walking over wet grass after a surprise it rains in Arkansas dragging your trash back trash bin over in the backyard with a simple concrete pathway suffice in a situation like this

I I think like we're this is going to require some sort of a a POA or I mean some sort of sort of HOA some sort of agreement. So, I I was trying to think like, okay, so now we got to get an easement in place or whatever, which is something I have not I've not had to do um up to this point, but yeah, I mean, just seems like this would be something that that gets, you know, kind of worked out amongst neighbors because you've got three there that are going to have to go through other people's properties to get out to the street or their their property, but this isn't like so now the two on the corner is like, "Haha, I got you." Like, you don't get to take your trash out, you know? I just I But gonna happen. Yeah. I mean, but both of them hopefully both of them would not be that way like

you know at least one of them is like the nice neighbor like oh yeah you can take around here. I mean one possible solution you've you've got the room on the one side you just create a P where they're all stored together instead of dragging your trash to the you to the curb you're carrying one bag at a time around to the community area where you store the five dumpsters. I mean there's a lot of ways to take care of this. Okay. Yeah. These are 1100 feet. At the end of the day, you're not producing a right an apartment. It's about the size of an apartment and they just take their trash bags down to a a common dump. Right. Yeah. And I thought about that as you were talking, but I don't Right. I don't know that we there's room for that's what the board is looking for. We're looking for a simple solution. Yes, sir.

That u you know, something nice, pretty can be fenced in or whatever have you. Whatever is deemed appropable appropriate. And I think Commissioner Russell made a very good statement on that. But yeah, if if you can add something like that, I know I would feel comfortable with this. I think something affordable like this, something definitely u um you know for our young professionals and or just anyone who would want have a desire to live in the community and neighborhood.

Uh I would be all for it. Is that something that you all think that you all can provide? Yeah, I can commit to having either a solid plan for access for people if they're going to have individual trash cans or a potential uh a dumpster that might be shared by um but uh the dumpster would be just fully transparent less it would not be as easy to uh accommodate with it's as easy to accommodate a dumpster as it would be a parking lot on that because of the slope that coming off that alley. But uh I will commit to making sure that we are uh dealing with trash in an appropriate way.

Mr. Chair, would it be prudent to ask uh recommend a commission deferral so that the applicant can provide a more detailed site plan? Yes. To provide information regarding trash collection, how how the site is being used more than what's been provided here today. Are are you asking if the applicant would like to make a I'm asking if you would like to recommend to the applicant that we do a commission deferral. I'd ra I'd rather not. These things give me anxiety. I mean, this isn't how I'm not normally this shaky. I'd rather just have a vote tonight. Is okay. I appreciate that. Uh no. So, Commissioner Russell was basically saying you can you can defer to next month if you like to go back with staff

to go back and get it. That way you're not up. I'd rather just commit to working with staff and trying to figure out trash uh and then uh and then move forward with this that would be that would be a substantive change to the site plan. That is that that is correct that staff cannot commit to without the commission. So you can't I can't commit to doing an HOA repeal away for TR access through need to see the re Mike because you it just depends on how you do it because if you used one dumpster you would have to screen that. How are you going to

Well, no. If there if there's five individual trash cans and there's just, you know, access whether it is through people's fenced, you know, collectively fenced backyards, but they there's just it's written in the bill of assurance of sorts, uh, that people are allowed to have access to the street for uh, use of their trash can because this is a PRD, you would have to have that as part of your application because it becomes the zoning ordinance. I can't imagine that not being true. So if you're going to do a BRD, that's correct. It's Yeah, Commissioner. I don't trust him either. I don't trust him either. Like it's I think you can trust me. Plan developments are sight spec sight specific. So it it does make a difference. I mean, we can move forward and we can vote. But if it

if it doesn't get approved, and I don't know that, but if it doesn't get approved, then you would have to go through the whole process versus deferring. So if it gets approved and if it gets approved, like I still have this trash problem. I still have to handle this. You're you're saying like if this gets approved and I want to do a bill of assurance that would uh uh uh deal with the the trash issue, I have to come back and explain to you guys how we're going to get trash out. I have to ask for permission. Technically, you would have to amend your PRD. Yeah, that's that's correct. Really? I I I that is nuts. So anybody you could basically kill dang near anything in there if somebody doesn't come in with a trash

but it would be an amendment to the PRD unfortunately. Yes. That's why the rules are in place. Put everything on the table and everything's open to negotiation and you get a consensus with them. If that changes, you got to come back and get Yeah. So we're not talking about six months here or nothing like that. It's literally 30 days. All right. As long as you guys make me don't make me come back up here and talk again. Do we agree to that? But Mike, if Mike, if it is denied and you come back with the same application, you have to wait a year. Yeah. Uh it's Yeah. No, I appreciate it. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I appreciate that. Amend the site plan, come back next month.

Yep. But to be clear, if if it passes if it did pass, there's no plan. There's no plan for trash. No kidding. Yeah. All right. I apologize. Yeah, we're going to have to we're going to have to defer. All right. Well, hold on a second. Hold on a second. That can't be right. Are are staff? Are you saying that he has to show you where he's going to sit a trash bin? I just can't imagine how many PRDs you have here. could kill every PRD that came in here because no I'm not going to say no one but like that's well on commercial developments we we show a dumpster pad and it's but I don't recall on any residential developments that Commission let's see what staff had to say

trash can location Mr. Mr. Bowen so uh as me and Mr. more are discussing this uh about the him having to come defer and then this being a substantial change uh to the plan development if he just did an easement in the back or anywhere in the property for this at the podium is that a significant change enough for him to it's difficult because of because of the PRD right Right. Because everything does have to be in there. Like I I think we're Is it substantial? [Music]

I I I I mean I I would say obviously, you know,

I would rather play it safe than take a risk. I mean, I I would I would rather the deferral happen and we figure it out than we we have an issue down the road. I'm going to I'm going to point out we had another residential development done by an architect where I had them defer because the dimension for the backyard was wrong. It was incorrect. And if we had approved that site plan, they would have been bound by the dimension that was on the site plan. And it was incorrect. So yes, it is substantial enough to require an accurate site plan.

Agreed. All right. So, we have staffed u made a statement. We had from our legal presence as well as our uh commissioner architecture architect. Um at this particular time, would you would you like to defer to up to you? I'm going to I'm going to defer. Okay. So applicant would like to to defer on this and we'll make a motion for deferment until uh next month after he meet with staff uh one more time and uh and get the easements and the solutions uh ready. Yes, sir. All right. Yep. Thanks guys. So I have a motion for that for the applicant for deferment into next month.

No, we have to make a motion. Yeah, we I need a motion for that. Mr. Chair, I'll make make a motion that we defer matter Z-10128- A for next meeting and applicants request. Have a second. Hold. But it's a commission deferral. So the city city pays for notices. Okay. Amended at the commission's request. We have a motion uh and a second here for deferral until next month at the commission request. Did we get a second? We have a second. Can I get a roll call vote, please? Yes, sir. Commissioner, Commissioner Brown, yes. Bernard, yes. Art, yes. Hodes. McDonald,

yes. Person, hi. Russell, hi. Samad, yes. Trimble, yay. Baxter, yes. Vickers, yes. Application has been deferred to next week's next month's meeting. Thank you, gentlemen. and hopefully we can get this uh get this corrected and put this on the consent agenda and get it done. Thank you very much for coming out. All right. Um I said we have a a a public uh public uh um request to speak. Uh please come to the podium and state your name, please. Good afternoon, gentlemen and ladies.

Uh my name is Sharon Juul. Um, I just saw you uh vote to defer um the gentleman's Michael's uh proposal. So, I'll be back next month again to speak out against the um proposal. One for the purpose of density, two I'm sorry, excuse me. I'm going to I'll be back next month to speak against that. One for the density question and also the issues that you raised up about parking because I know he's going to go back. Yeah. Just just just so that is this is this an application is is this I didn't know what it was. I thought at the end we have any kind of public announcements or the community they want to say something. Yeah. If this is about uh

I'm going to speak against in opposition of that. So I'll be back next month to speak in opposition to that. I'm and I'm sorry we can't speak on that once we have deferral. No problem. I just want to introduce myself as Sharon Juul and I'm owner of property adjacent to where he's trying to be. Okay. Thank you. And if you have any any concerns, feel free to email the staff or any of the commissioners up here. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um I think maybe she needs to ma be made aware of the green cards because were you here from the beginning of the meeting or did you just

So maybe good good point, Commissioner McDonald. So yeah, when you attend the meetings up at the front, you have to sign a green card uh that looks like this here. And if it's not signed, then bylaws we we only have u uh the uh citizens to come in and sign that will be allowed or permitted to speak. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming out. Okay. No problem.

All right. Uh do we have any other public announcements or from citizens? I have one announcement. New business here. Uh it's been kind of brought to my attention and raised by um several of the commissioners up here. um Commissioner Russell, Commissioner Baxter, and I think a couple other commissioners here uh and staff about updating bylaws and um looking at, you know, just looking at the policy as a whole and modernizing it and really um taking that step forward. And so I want I guess the next meeting uh if you have interest, please uh feel free to email uh Brad, Monty, Torrance, and myself. Well, just bring it on all group, which we all so we can all be on notice. If you like to be on that subcommittee and to really look at the um bylaws, we want to do that. Commissioner Russ

definitely great. Well, we have one. So, next month we probably want to look at go ahead and getting a a subcommittee started to really look at that and probably have uh staff if anybody from staff would like to be on there or the amount of staff obviously legal. We would uh like to be on board. Thank you, Cameron. I know you like Michael, why you put me on the spot?

No, no, no. You're you're fine. Whatever youall need on that. and probably maybe even from legislative that I will look into and and reach out and I get with you Brady Torrance I get with you all and and try to try to see how can we can get a conglomerate here to make sure that um you know you know everybody voices heard from from a state level on down to local. So um again if you have if you have interest want to be on that subcommittee please uh bring out an email let us know. Commissioner Russell thank you Cameron thank you. Uh with that being said, is there any other new business or issues? If not, the meeting adjourned [Music] [Music]