Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Little Rock Planning Commission uh board meeting here and it's January the 8, 2026 and happy new year to all. Uh so let's go ahead and get started here. Let's go ahead and um uh let's get a roll call here to determine a quorum. Good afternoon everyone. This is the roll call vote for the January 8th, 2026 Little Rock Planning Commission meeting. Commissioner Brown Bernard here. Hodes McDonald present. Personson here. Russell

present. Samad Eves present. Backter present. Vickers present. We have a quorum. Thank you. Moving right along. And I would add uh we are having elections today and we will have them at the end of the uh agenda. So moving right along to uh the reading of the minutes here. I'm certain all of the commissioners got a chance to read and review the the minutes. If we don't have any questions, I would love to entertain a motion. Mr. Chair, I make a motion to approve the minutes as written. Second. Have a motion in the second. May I please get a roll call vote? Commissioner Brown, yes. Bernard, yes. Hodgees.

Yes. McDonald. Yes. Person. Hi. Russell. Hi. Sim. Ease. Yes. Backter. Yes. Uh. Vickers. Yes. Minutes are approved. All right. And let the record stand that uh Commissioner Smad is present. Moving right along to our the reading of the consent uh agenda. Uh Monty, if you will.

Following is a consent agenda. Liver planning commission meeting of January 8th, 2026. The first group of items are those that are going to be deferred or withdrawn. Item one, file number Z7880B is being deferred to the February 12th, 2026 agenda at the request of the applicant. Item number five, Z558A is being deferred to the February 12th agenda due to insufficient notification. Item 8 S 2011 is being deferred to the February 12th agenda at the request of the applicant. Item 10 Z10 241 is being withdrawn at the request of the applicant. Item 13 Z7648A is being deferred to the February 12th agenda at the request of the applicant. Item 14 Z10232 is being withdrawn at the request of the applicant. Item 15, Z7500K, is being deferred to the March 12th agenda at the request of the applicant. Item 16, Z10236 is being deferred to the February 12th agenda due to insufficient notification. And item 23, Z10239 is also being deferred to the February 12th agenda due to insufficient notification. Next are the items on consent approval. Items two and three have been moved to the regular agenda for discussion. So the first item on consent approval is item four, file number Z10229, a reszoning from R2 to R4, southeast corner of Holero Springs Road and Pine Cone Drive. Staff recommends approval of the requested R4 reszoning. Item 7 S2010 Kynis commercial park preliminary plat 11700 and 11800 blocks of Kanes Road on the south side of Kanis Road. Staff recommends approval of the requested preliminary plat subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs D and E and the

staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Items 9 and 9.1 are being moved to the regular agenda for discussion. Item 11, Z10 242 in Cura Private Rehabil Rehabilitation Clinic, CUP, 1000 South Rodney Parm Road. Staff recommends approval of the proposed CUP subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs D and E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Items 12, 17, 18, and 19 are being moved to the regular agenda for discussion. Item 20 Z10 235 Hopony LLC STR2 PDC 909 South Palaski Street. Staff recommends approval of the PDC subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Item 21 Z10 237 miles number one STR2 PDC 28/19 South Gain Street. Staff recommends approval of the PDC subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report and item 22Z10238 miles number two STR2 PDC 3401 Lamar Street. Staff recommends approval of the PDC subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. That concludes the consent agenda.

Thank you for the reading, Monty. Um uh if we don't have any kind of comments or questions for the uh consent approval agenda, uh I would love to entertain a motion. Mr. Chair, I move that we approve the consent agenda as read. Second. I have a motion in a second. May I please get a roll call vote? Commissioner Brown, yes. Bernard, yes. Hodes, yes. McDonald, [snorts] yes. Person, I Russell, hi. Sad. Eves, yes. Baxter I Vickers. Yes. Consent agenda has been approved.

Thank you, sir. All right. If your item was on the consent agenda and it was already approved, uh you're more than welcome to stay, but at this time you can leave at this particular time and we will give you just a moment uh everyone to leave that uh that your uh item was already approved. Now, we have a number of items on the agenda tonight and so we want to try to get through this as efficient and effective as possible uh with respecting your time. So, um the regular agenda will go as follow. Um we will item number six Z-8092- it will go first. All of the second ones that were put on rolled over to the regular agenda, it will go in chronological order and that number uh will be two, three, 9, 9.1, 12, 17, 18, and 19. And I would like to add uh because we do have uh a number of of items on the regular agenda that uh each side whether if you're in support or opposition of the item that you have up to 20 minutes. So if there are 20 people that are in opposition of the item, then essentially each person will have a minute or you can elect that your speaker if on behalf of the group or whatever if you have you can do that as well. So each side will have up to 20 minutes. So I just want to let you know that I believe we will have the the clocks that will display the time. So I just want to make sure that everybody has a fair and equal opportunity to uh speak if they filled out a card. So with that with that being said, let's move right along to item number 6Z-8092- A. Is the applicant present?

If so, please make your way to the podium and we will have the reading.

Item number six, file number Z892A. This is the Shell Northcut Electric POD located at 1341 Kanes Road. The applicant proposes to reszone 1.2 acres from POD and R2 to POD. The development will contain an office warehouse building in the north portion of the site and three single family residential lots within the south portion. The office warehouse will align with the existing development to the west. The residential lots will take front take frontage along White Road to the east. The developer will construct an 8,000 square foot one-story steel frame building within the north portion of the site. The applicant notes the the building materials and elevation will match the existing building to the west. The proposed building will contain 500 square feet of office and 7,500 square feet of warehouse space. The site plan shows a total of 31 parking spaces, 11 spaces located on the north side of the building with the remaining 20 spaces located on the south side of the building. Staff feels that uh parking is sufficient to serve the proposed use. The developer is also proposing three single family residential lots as part of the overall development. Uh the lots will range in size from 8,400 to 8680 square feet in area and these will be developed as per the R2 standards in the code. The applicant has revised the site plan since the last meeting. The uh there was a driveway uh within the on the south parking lot uh to White Road. The applicant has removed that driveway and now has a shared driveway from Kanes Road to the north. a shared driveway between this property and the property to the west and the public works department has approved that driveway location. Staff is supportive of the pod zoning to staff's knowledge there are no outstanding issues. Uh staff feels the proposed development will be similar in intensity to the existing office and residential zoning uses in the general area. Staff

recommends approval of the requested POD zoning subject to compliance with comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs DE and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Right. Thank you, Monty. Applicant, please state your name for the record. Now about the common driveway, which I know stated, "We've worked with the neighbors on White Road, not White Drive, that's our area, White Road, and um worked with public works and staff on getting the driveway moved from White Road up to Kanes Road. And as Monty stated, public works uh agrees with that. We'd like to reserve the rest of our time and let uh the opposition speak and then we'd like to come back afterwards."

Sounds good. We have one card in opposition and that is David Sullivan if you're present.

Number two,

my apologies. Let me go to it here. Give me one one minute. All right. My apologies, ladies and gentlemen. We do have a host of cards here for item number six. And the first one is uh Steve Northcut. Yes, I I'm here in approval of the project, but we have uh Mr. Tucker here to speak for the group. May I speak after him if I feel uh feel the need to speak after he does? I'd like to defer to him. Thank you. Uh Helen Ling,

I defer to Peter also. Okay. All right.

Mrs. Northcut, uh are you deferring your time as well? Yes. Okay. So, is everybody deferring their time and they want to let uh Peter speak? Okay. All right. Uh, Peter Tucker. Hi. Thank you. Uh, I provided some slides. Is there any chance those are available? All right. Thank you.

Okay. I appreciate it. Thank you. Uh, so my name is Peter Tucker. I'm here on behalf of myself and my other neighbors on White Road. Uh as you can see in the picture there, we've all kind of banded together and come to you with the unified message. I want a respect for your time. Um we are here in opposition, but uh we're not in complete opposition of the development. Um we're happy with a lot of it. There's just one or two things that kind of concern us that we wanted to bring to your attention. Um, so our main concerns here are just making sure that this development aligns with the characteristics and the long-term uh interests of our neighborhood. So before I get into the particular parts of the plan that concerned us, um, I wanted to just take a few moments to go over a few brief points to give some additional context about our neighborhood to kind of supplement the analysis that was given in the staff report. So if we can go to the next slide. Thank you. So, White Road is a small deadend road off of Kanes. Um, we are in between Taylor Park, which is to the the west of us there. Uh, Teton Valley is to the east of us, and to the south of us is a lake that separates us from the Woodlands Age neighborhood. Um, these are all their own distinct neighborhoods. And so likewise, White Road acts as its own distinct neighborhood and the property uh parcels that we're talking about today are all connecting and interacting with the White Road neighborhood. Next slide. Thank you. Um it was mentioned in the staff report that White Road is technically a commercial road. Um, and while I believe that to be true since we

do have that small northwest corner of a POD zone, um, there's a privacy fence that separates that zone from the west rest of the road. And, uh, the current entrance to that zone is Tecanis. And so that zone has no interaction, no meaningful interaction with White Road. So for all functional purposes, White Road acts as a single family residential road. Next slide. Um, as part of a commercial road, it's supposed to meet the same design standards as a collector road. Um, and White Road not only does not meet those standards right now, but it it's quite a ways off. So, I thought that was worth mentioning. Um, the road's about 16 ft wide, which is about one and a half cars wide. Uh, we consistently have to kind of pull halfway over into a neighbor's front yard to allow each other to pass on the road. Uh, every Wednesday when the trash truck and the recycling truck comes down, it backs down the road. And if you're unlucky enough to get caught behind that on your way to work, you're going to be waiting a little bit until you can find a place you can pull around it. Um, so I just wanted to bring that up uh especially as we get into kind of the uh congestion and traffic on the road. So what I'd like to do now is kind of go to the specific parts of the plan um that we had concerns with. So we can go to the next slide. And the first part here, we we didn't want to just bring you concerns. We also wanted to present possible solutions. Um this first slide here is a bit of a mute point u now because uh the applicant team which we really appreciate has done a good job of working with the city to propose the new plan that was just mentioned. Um I did include this just because what was posted had the old plan. So I wanted to

make sure this was here in case we needed to talk about it. But we can move on to the next slide. And so here is the new proposed plan on the right. and we are supportive of the change that they made to move the location of that and we do really appreciate that. Our next request here is related to the three residential lots at the bottom. Um in addition to some concerns about uh the traffic congestion which is kind especially right there at the bottleneck and entrance the only entrance and exit to our road. Um really our main concern on this one that I wanted to bring to your uh awareness is with the compatibility of this development to the core characteristics of our neighborhood. Uh, White Road has an established development pattern defined by larger lots, wider frontage, and an overall greater separation between homes than what's being proposed here. The average lot size in our neighborhood is nearly 2 acres. Um, the smallest lots are 1 acre. And so what's being proposed here is uh a little less than a fifth of the size of the existing smallest lots in our neighborhood. And this represents a clear departure from our existing neighborhood characteristics. Uh, in addition, sudden changes to lot sizes like this can also introduce uncertainty and disrupt the expectations that the current property owners relied on when we invested in our properties on White Road. So, our ask here on this one would be that the commission consider if if the development as it's drawn out um fits

with the context of our neighborhood. Um, our desire would be that these three single family residential lots be turned into one single family residential lot. Thank you. Next slide. And then uh the final thing that I wanted to bring up isn't unique to this specific project, but it's more of just a broad concern for any development that's in the area. Um, and this is our downstream water uh storm water system. So to the south at the bottom of White Road sits a lake that the storm water from this site will drain into. Uh the lake is currently showing signs of significant stress and sedimentation uh that has settled at the bottom and in effect it's raised the floor of the lake and over the years has significantly reduced the capacity the amount of water that the lake can hold. Um this project is small in comparison to a lot of the other development that's going around to us. So, this isn't a big concern on us for this. Um, we do appreciate that there was a detention pond drawn on the plan. Um, and we appreciate that the staff recommended storm water studies to go through. Um, but our goal here is just to raise awareness and to hopefully help reduce further damage to the lake as we try to work through the proper channels to identify and solve the root problem of this issue. Um to the applicant team, we just ask that they consider this downstream sensitivity when performing their drainage plans. And we ask that any development in the area be cautious and use erosion control measures to reduce the downstream impacts. Um, to be honest with you, I'm not quite sure what tools the commission might have to kind of in its powers to help us with our effort here to uh slow down the damage and ensure that this development

and other development are following the proper measures there. Um, but if there is anything, we we would love to hear more about it. So, with that, I'll conclude. Um, I really appreciate your time. Again, we're not completely against the development. Uh we just our one point that we have left now is mainly the uh three residential lots. We'd like to see that drop down to just one single family residential lot. Thank you. Thank you. May the applicants please come back up to the podium. [clears throat] [snorts] Yeah, I meant to say that I would speak after Mr. Tucker. Uh, my

Yeah, sorry about that. Give me one minute. Go ahead.

Well, I'm Steve Northcut and I lived I live at the top house uh on White Road on Kanis Road and I've lived there since uh 1955 and my brother and I all have lived in that house. And uh for as long as we've lived there, all the houses on that road have been single uh houses and or a lot or a acre or two. and it's trees and bushes and it's, you know, it's grown uh into a very nice neighborhood. We were actually known as Stonybrook Acres at one time. Uh and the concern with those three houses is that it will completely change the character of everything else in the neighborhood, all the houses on one acre and trees and bushes. because if they clearcut it then it's going to look like Teton which uh looks terrible until they put houses up there. So that's our major concern about changing that whole bottom lot there so that it it looks like uh what's up at Teton because that'll be completely out of character of the rest of the neighborhood. Now I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you very much. Okay. Right now uh applicants if you will uh come back to the podium please. So, you've heard some of the oppositions and I guess or request or and I they have some definitely some agreements with you and your updated uh plans. So, at this particular time, the floor is yours.

Thank you, sir. We we did uh meet with them out in the hallway after the last meeting when we took the deferral and then we've had some email communication and um as Peter pointed out uh White Road is more of a residential road and we worked with the staff to move our driveway over to Kynes to handle the trucks coming in and out. So we will not have any commercial access to White Road at all and and and the staff as well as the neighbors have agreed to that. So that was one point that we agreed to. In fact, we really don't want to touch White Road. We I think they and us would like to just leave it alone as it is. Um, another point that we heard was the detention and the drainage uh going down to Miss Katherine Rosett's Lake. We're well familiar with that. We did the Taylor Park neighborhood, the Teton. Um, we know she is very protective of her lake. We haven't asked for any variances or waiverss on drainage or detention. We'll meet all the city codes and everything on that. So, um, we'll we'll comply with that. Uh the last point is where I guess maybe we still differ a little bit is um Mr. Hayes is trying to re there is an existing building on this property and he feels that he's overpaid for it a little bit to get this so he can expand his business. He is the owner to the west and he's his business is growing and he is trying to use these three lots to offset how much he's paying for the property. So these three lots meet code. They they they meet everything with the R2 ordinance. We're complying with the R2 ordinance. Nothing is is is a variance or waiver on these three lots. So, if he gets an offer for two lots, we'll reduce it to two lots. If he gets a big enough offer, he'll he'll consider it as one lot. But we can reduce the number of lots at staff level. We can't ever increase the number of lots. So, we're asking for approval of these three lots that meet code. And if um he gets an

offer or chooses to reduce the number of lots, we will and and he can do that at staff level. So at this time, we would we would respectfully request approval of the three lots as the application is drawn. Okay. And we we're glad to answer any questions that that you or the other commissioners may have. All right. Before I open the um um open the floor up to the board, I wanted to ask did you have a statement, Monty? Go ahead.

Well, with respect to this is a plan development zoning. A lot of times when you see a plan development zoning, there is a plat that's that's a component of the zoning. In this case, it is a plat. you're you you're taking uh the the north lot which would be the the pod or the the office warehouse and then the southern portion would be divided into three single family lots. The plant portion of it does comply with ordinance standards and typically the city attorney will tell you that meets Richardson case. Now what so you saying the plaque and including um the three lots? Yes.

Is that is that code? Is that standard? Is there any the policy or rules that they're not meeting? Yeah, the PLA portion of the application conforms [clears throat] to ordinance standards. Okay. There are no variances. Okay. All right. At this particular time, I want to open the floor up to any of the commissioners with any questions who are comments or concerns at this time. All right. Uh if we don't have any uh comments or or questions uh and applicant if you don't have anything else to add uh I would love to entertain a motion. Excuse me. Commissioner Brown, go ahead.

Staff, does this meet all the requirements as per code? Is there any any exceptions on this? Not not as far as the plan goes. No. Mr. Chair, I move to accept staff's recommendations for approval requested POD reszoning subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs D and F and the [snorts] staff recommendation in the report. Second. I have a motion and a second. Now, please get a roll call vote. Commissioner Brown, yes. Bernard, yes. Hodgees, yes. McDonald, yes. Person, yes. Russell, hi.

Sim, yes. Eves, yes. Backter, yes. Vickers, yes. Motion's approved. Motion is approved. Uh, thank everybody for coming out with this uh action item and we'll give you just a moment to uh to depart. Thank you.

The next item we will move in chronological order and that's item number two. And if the applicant is present, uh once the aisle is clear, uh please make your way to the podium. And while the applicant is approaching the podium, may we please uh once again you provide the reading.

Item number two, file number Z10201, Thomas Property Group, PDR, located at 2201 Rock Street. The applicant is proposing to reszone the subject property from R4 to PDR to construct a residential development that will contain two buildings and each building will contain three town houses. As part of the PDR development, the applicant proposed to subdivide the property into six lots with lot areas ranging from 1532 ft to 2390 square feet. Access to the development will be provided by a shared 20 foot wide access driveway extending from Rock Street to the alley east of the town homes. Each townhouse will be two stories in height. The construction materials will contain asphalt shingled roofs, brick and vinyl siding. The total heating and cooled space, including front and rear porches and garage, range from 1650 to,657 square ft. Construction will also contain a 5- foot wide sidewalk extending the width of the development between the town houses and the shared access drive. Section 36502 of the city zoning ordinance typically requires one off- streetet parking space per dwelling unit. Each townhouse will contain an attached rear loading garage. On street parking is also allowed in this area. Staff feels the uh parking will be sufficient to serve the proposed use. Staff is supportive of the proposed PDR zoning. To staff's knowledge, there are no outstanding issues. Staff recommends approval of the requested PDR zoning subject to compliance with comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report.

Thank you very much for the reading. Applicant, please uh state your name. Yeah, I'm Vernon Williams with Garnet Engineering and I have Bud Thomas, the developer for the project with us. Okay, excellent. You have one card in opposition. You can speak now or you can reserve your time and come back. Like to say a few things then we'll reserve our time. Sure.

That's essentially um uh the the project that you see now is is slightly different than what we turned in before. We worked closely with um staff to get something that they liked. Um we also have met with um some of the local property owners. We initially turned this in as a rental project. Um, we were told that, um, the neighborhood would prefer owners out there. So, we we've switched up our application and and and constructing this in a way that we can sell these off individually as homes. Thank you. Sounds good. All right.

So, we do have one card in opposition, uh, Mr. David Sullivan. So, if you didn't reach out to the property owners too well because I'm the sole adjacent property owner and I never heard from you. Um, Gal, my name is Dave Sullivan. I've owned that property at 2207 Rock Street since April of '06. I resided there until spring of 2014 and my son-in-law neighborhood for a long time. I was a vice president in 2010 and I'm I welcome positive changes and improvements to the neighborhood. However, believe this does not meet the character of the area. It's all single family homes. So, your proposal ends up with six units. That's 12 people, possibly 24 dogs and maybe another 12 cars there. There's not that much room there in that little halfacre lot, about a quarter acre lot. And if you're having only six dwellings per acre, now you're requesting the code to go up to 24 dwellings per acre by approving this. I I I'm surprised no one else had showed up, but I really adamantly opposed to this. And should you go through, I would like to see an 8-oot privacy fence put on that southern property line. And I would like to know the rationale of the board of why they thought this was acceptable. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. If we can have the applicants please uh come back up to the podium. All right. So, we kind of heard um the opposition uh about the uh 8 foot private fence. uh you can maybe speak on that if you will and uh any other concerns. I I guess I would start that with a question to to you. Please I'm sorry. Please address Okay. I'm sorry. Please address the board. The the neighbor has a fence currently on the property line, you know. Um I think if if he was willing to let us take his fence down to put up an 8ft privacy fence, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't do that.

Okay. Um, we do think that that this density is consistent uh with the the um the PRD that we had approved across the street and with the densities that are going on at the Pedawaway development that's close by this. Okay. At this time, I want to open the floor up to the board with any questions or comments. Commissioner Russell.

Thank you, Chair. Um, so I'm gonna I'm going to use this yet again as an example of uh what not to submit as a PDR for this commission. There is not enough information here. The site plan has no property line. It has no easements. It has no setbacks. It has no reasonable information whatsoever that this commission can use to make a justifiable decision in this application. The elevations show no floor to floor heights, no maximum building heights. They show no compliance whatsoever with any of the zoning ordinances that you're applying for. A PDR is a planned development residential. You are proposing a zoning ordinance. This is an island unto itself. We need to know what it is that you're proposing in sufficient detail so that when you do build this, we know what rules you have prescribed in order to stay within. Uh this in my opinion does not meet the minimum requirements for this commission and should be denied or withdrawn and resubmitted at a later time. We did provide a full plat um hasn't been shown up on the screen that shows the setbacks and the property lines that you're talking about. And um staff, can you comment on that? Is is this the site plan? That's not the site plan that I have.

I mean, that's our site plan. We we presented a replant with that. That's not the site plan that I have. That the site plan is that's the site plan that was in the agenda. Not what was emailed to me, not the link that I clicked on the website and downloaded. You're pull you're p you're pulling straight from the agenda, aren't you?

Question for staff. Uh was there any other additional um submissions on this file that was submitted? Well, sometimes with a plan development, just like the last plan development, the item before you, there'll be an underlying plat that goes with the site plan. Okay? And and typically we deal with just as far as the presentation to the commission is the site plan. The site plan actually shows lot lines running through the the two triplexes. Okay. And it's it's six six total lots. So, this is the correct one. That's the correct site plan. Yes. Yeah. But we did submit a PLA that shows the cross access easements that show all the setbacks that we have.

Okay. Commissioner Russell, are you able to review that? I'm I'm still going to stand by my statement. The elevations do not show sufficient information, this site plan. Yeah, I would have loved to receive this instead of whatever this crap is uh as part of the submission. No, no. What I'm saying is can you see this on the screen, the updated one or the correct one? Okay. But it doesn't address the other comments and I'm going to stand by them. This does not meet the minimum requirements for a PRD submission. Thank you. Do we have any other comments, questions from any other commissioners? Commissioner Brown, go ahead.

I guess this is a staff obviously Commissioner Russell has more architectural knowledge on this board. Does this meet those requirements? I mean that's that's where I'm confused because if I mean I would assume it does if y'all recommen approval. So where's where's the delta here? What exterior building materials are being proposed? What's the maximum building height? What's the maximum number of stories? Or is or is that a building plan level outside of I mean that was read in part of the initial description those items that were taken from our application.

Sure. I mean we we read in staff report two stories in height materials will contain shingle asphalt roof brick and vinyl siding. the the documents have have been provided by the applicant staff feels sufficient to move forward. So all all of the information uh that Commissioner Russell stated they are in fact in the applicant's files and a part of the uh a part of his file. Is that correct? I just I just want to make sure that

they've submitted adequate information. You know, there might not be a specific dimension along every building wall on the site plan, but I mean, we do have areas, uh, unit areas. Um, as it's obvious, the porches will be on the front property lines. All right. I just wanted to make sure that everything was up to code and they were meeting everything. um as far as um for the updated um um uh proposal here. So, I just wanted to make certain that there was anything that we didn't get or information that we did not receive. I just wanted to make sure everything that was supposed to, you know, I guess been received that we that they did submit is what I'm asking. Yes.

Okay. All right. Any other questions? Any other commissioners? Just a question for the applicant. Just to confirm for the record, you all are willing to to construct that 8ft fence. Should we approve this? Oh, absolutely. Yep. Okay. And then what is the distance just I see there's the sidewalk and there's that 20 foot drive. Looks like that lower line is where the 8ft fence will be. What's the distance between the fence for the drive and Mr. Sullivan's home? I it I think it's somewhere in the range of three or four feet to to his home. I I don't know the answer to that, but to the property line, we're everything per ordinance. I mean, that that checks out, correct? [clears throat] Okay.

Thank you. All right. Any other questions? If not, I would uh to entertain a motion for this item, Mr. Chair and file number Z-10201. I move to accept staff's recommendation of approval of the requested PDC zoning subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Second. Have a motion and a second. May I get a roll call vote, please? Commissioner Brown, yes. Bernard, yes. Hodes, yes. Macdonald, yes. Person, I. Russell, no. Samad, yes. Eaves, yes. Baxter, yes.

Vickers, yes. Motion's approved. Thank you applicant for coming in and everybody coming in on this item. Moving right along to item number three S-20006. If the applicant, we'll just take a moment uh for everybody to depart on that. The applicant is present, please make your way to the podium. And while the applicant is making their way, may I please have the reading

item [clears throat] number three, file number S206, the Eagle Place Preliminary Plat, 13700 Alexander Road. The applicant proposes to subdivide 28.84 acres located at 13,700 Alexander Road into 90 lots for single family residential development. The property is currently undeveloped and wooded. The railroad rideway is located along the northwest boundary of the overall property. The proposed subdivision will contain approximately 4,022 linear feet of new streets. The streets will be 26 feet wide constructed within a 50- foot wide ride of way. There will be a 5 foot wide sidewalk on one side of the streets. There will also be two short culde-sacs within the development. The main entrance to the subdivision will be from Alex Alexander Road Nachis Lane Charleston Lane right ofway dead ends into the property near the southwest corner of the overall property. The applicant is proposing a secondary access into the subdivision from this ride ofway. All of the proposed lots comply with R2 ordinance standards for minimum lot width, lot depth, and lot area with the exception of a few corner lots. The applicant is requesting two variances with the proposed subdivision. Section 31232B of the city subdivision ordinance requires that residential lot be no more than three times deep as it is wide. A minor variance from this requirement is requested for lots 33 34 37 53 56 57 86 and 87. And section 31 232E requires that corner lots and residential subdivisions be a minimum of 75 ft wide. a minor variance from this requirement requested for lots 12, 39, and 52. Staff does support the requested preliminary plat. Staff recommends approval of the requested preliminary plat subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs D and

E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Thank you Monty for the reading. Applicant, please state your name for the record. Yes, sir. Thank you for the chance. U this is Kazzy from Hope Consulting. we are representing this project. Um I would like to get any questions you have and I would like to reserve the my time. Okay, please have a seat here and you have a few cards here and we'll bring you back up momentarily. So we have the few cards in opposition here. The first card is uh Reggie Krauss.

Thank you commissioners for uh allowing me to speak. Uh while first of all I just like to say that I think uh and I'm res of the neighborhood and I believe our neighborhood would like to thank the builders that have done the improvements in the past as well as recognize this applicant's uh right to do whatever they wish with property and per the property rights granted in the constitution. However, there is an issue that apparently there's not um any requirement to disclose. This property is on what's called a porter clay expansive clay substrate of the Midway group. It's well known on Alexander Road. The road is very wavy. It's uh horrible to drive. In fact, it's restricted likely restricted traffic because it's is the road is so bad. All the houses that were built over the years have had a lot of problems with movement and most of those people didn't realize what they were getting into when they purchased their house. So really there are two issues. One is the respect uh with respect to the road condition and what the condition will be likely in that subdivision when they put in new roads because there have been previous roads put in for other developments and they end up breaking and cracking and as well as the houses. So the other part is in protection hopefully to protect these homeowners to at least let them know what they're getting into or conversely have the developer the subdivision or the contractor

make the the clay can be mitigated the problems can be mitigated if it's done in advance. it becomes very hard to do after the properties are constructed and we're seeing no requirement for them to disclose anything and it appears that there's really no incentive to disclose. Why would somebody disclose a problem with a property when you want to sell the house? It's kind of gets in the way. So, uh just wanted to ask the uh commissioners to open up the office of the state geologist. There's a should have an insert there. Do you do you have a folder? Does everybody have that? No.

Sorry. So, we've got uh office state jobs. Just to tell people if they're not familiar with what Porter's Clay is and how big a problem it really is. This is an area that extends intermittently from Texas all the way up through Bazeville, maybe further. Uh it's it's relatively narrow round Alexander Road and has caused all of these problems. Again, there are ways to mitigate problems if they're done in advance, soil preparation, uh peers and so forth, but it becomes very very expensive after the fact. So, this stuff office of the state geologist tells you a little bit about what that is. Also, there's this map here which shows the proposed development here. And then this blue area is a core that was drilled for a water well back in 1999 and it was the uh report has been obtained from the state geology department.

Excuse me, Mr. Cross. What page you said you wanted everybody to turn to?

I'm sorry. It's uh it's a actually it's AR county data. It's on this the heading would be this page here. So while this uh this core is not exactly where the property is in in the opinion and by the way the uh the u we've got the information from the geologist that I spoke to. It's on the last page on the test. So he he says it's close enough and in within the same the same area. So it would be effective effectively the same. So in this back page was the water well results from 1999 and it shows that the first 65 ft or clay substrate expansive clay. So the problem with it is when it gets wet it expands. When it when it dries out it shrinks. So, we would just like to see that there's some methodology to at least forewarn these unsuspecting 90 new homeowners and the people that will be dealing with this and apparently there's no methodology to do that right now. So, just like your consideration, don't know what powers or interest you might have in this. Uh, we just would hope that protecting these future homeowners might be of interest. Can I answer any questions or anything I've left out here?

Uh, no. What we can do, Mr. Krauss, if uh one of the board members have any particular questions for you, we will bring you back up. Thank you. Thank you. The next card we have, is it Sher Sherry uh Gilbert Gibber? Yes. Sher Gibber. All right. You can you can move the mic down if you need to. Okay. Is that better? No, I'm just trying to make sure you're comfortable.

This is my first time talking. Um, I'm the one that put the little brochure together. Rachie added his stuff to it. Good evening, first of all, and thank you guys for letting me have the opportunity to speak to you. Um, I'm here to oppose this proposed development because it presents a clear and present unacceptable risk to public safety, infrastructure, and the physical responsibilities. The roads in this neighborhood are already deteriorating and were never designed to support hight traffic volumes. They are narrow, aging, and built for lowdensity residents use. Adding 90 homes means hundreds of additional daily vehicle trips, commuters, delivery trucks, construction traffic, and emergency vehicles. Okay, there you go. Um on roads that are already showing signs of failure, I printed pictures. Y'all should be seeing them around there. Um to put this impact into real terms, with an average of two or more vehicles per household in each vehicle making approximately five trips per day, that equals about 10 trips per home. Multiply that by 90 homes and you add approximately 11,800 additional vehicle trips per day on an already deteriorating road system. Compounding this risk are the known soil conditions. This area sits on expansive clay which shifts and cracks not only foundations but roadways as well. Of the 33 homes in my neighborhood surrounding this proposed development, at least 30 of them have suffered serious damage related to soil movement. Some of my former neighbors have been forced into foreclosure after foundation failures destroyed their financial stability. Others remained locked in our homes, required constant foundation adjustment, repeated repairs to broken water, sewer lines, and shifting clays. This is a really serious question of liability. in the event of future litigation by homeowners. My question is, does the city have soil reports that can legally rely on that it is known is an independent and defensible knowing it would be the city's coffers at stake if there are no reliable third party soil analysis that it would not be funded I'm

sorry analysis that is not funded by the developer then approved this project leaves the city exposed to significant future failure I'm sorry future liability hard to read building 90 starter homes on unstable soil and feeding them into deteriorating roads sets future families up for failure, hardships and not an opportunity. It shifts the long-term cost and legal risk of the residents and taxpayers. Responsible development must prioritize safety, infrastructure, capacity, and sound due diligence. And until these issues are fully and independently addressed, approving this proposal would be reckless. So, I urge you to please consider the public safety and the city's financial interest and by rejecting this proposal. Um, I sent pictures around to show you the street that we live on and the street that we deal with. There's a house that is not even two years old that is already cracking all up and down the street. There's nothing but devastation and houses that have it's it's it's a good pl not a good place to put 90 homes. That's all I know to say. Thank you for your time, guys.

Thank you. Our final card on the opposition here is uh director of BJ word.

Happy new year. I don't I don't often come to you all. I'm the lay on between you and the city board, but I rise to the occasion today because it's like, you know, you go to the doctor and you say, "Doc, this hurts. This really hurts." You go to another doctor, "Oh, this hurts. This hurts." And then finally you get a diagnosis. And so what we have in this area is called Potter's Clay. I have driven down Alexander Road, which I live on Alexander Road. I'm about two miles from where this property is. And you see the houses and you see the the cracked foundations. You see the brick that rolls off the houses. You see the infrastructure for the street. Um I we we don't have the money to replace that street. I think some of the results will tell you that you have to go 65 ft deep in order to take care of this potter's clay issue. Um, we came in a few years ago, overlaid it, the street is it's it's sloping away because it gets wet, it gets dry, it cracks, it moves. And so a lot of people that bought their homes uh back in the day, they had no idea that there was an issue there. you know, nice looking home. They're all spruced up. You buy them, and then uh shortly thereafter, you start seeing a decline in the the housing structure. I think both of these people that are here that have already spoken have had structural problems. I think one of them's in the throws of trying to repair stuff right now. So, here we have uh a development with 90 additional homes, and we're concerned about um those people buying lots, building houses, and the fact that at some point in time, their foundations are going to break down. I've talked to Mr. Jordan, and I've talked to Mr. Gustin about it. Uh because if it's not something that we as a city look at, we need to look at it because I think it's our responsibility to understand the the lay of the land. and when we sell

property, when we do permits, what the outcome's going to be. So, that's the reason why I'm here today. It's like we've got a diagnosis. We know what the problem is and do we want to continue doing this without some sort of ready remediation in order to build additional houses there. Thank you. Thank you. That concludes our cars. May we have the applicant please come back up to the podium. Um, thank you, sir. So, you've kind of heard some uh the issues here. Yes. uh the major concerns which is the partners clay obviously uh that they majorly addressed yes uh the ground issues water issues I'll let you speak on those uh so the floor is yours

yes uh thank you sir um so to address that soil issues um if you see our plat like we provided a road section which shows that the subgrade needs to be 95% um proctor density and the uh sub and the base material needs to be 100% um procto density which is a very good standard and in the standard construction practice like you if the soil is bad for some reason then you'll have to bring uh different technology to develop it and our developer he's willing to do that and we will follow the standard protocols to build these roads uh and to address the other issues like the soils on the lot. The property owner himself is a um home builder. He builds custom homes uh in this central Arkansas. So he's very aware of it like how to build the slabs uh on any particular you know bed soil and how to improve that. Uh one other question was that like uh the the water or the if you see that like in our PL there is a a stream running through our property and that's why we left some of those lots really deep to not to be close to that stream area not to have our buildable area to to be you know close to that stream area. That's why like we um we left these lots really deep and that's why we are asking for some variances so that like we can have that um and for the other things that I would like to say that like we will follow all the city standards

little rock street department standards their uh inspector will be on the construction site to making sure that the road is being built according to the city's standard. All right. I um before I open the floor up to the board, uh staff, if if I will, uh was a like some type of a geological study done or 100red-year flood plane or any of those studies, were they done by the applicant or anything like that? I know the applicant just stated that they have all the plans or whatnot. I just wanted to

Did you guys do any of that geological study? Uh I think like uh the property owner um has some some ge geological. Did you as a as a PE do that? No, we do not do that. Like we hired some um material testing company. They can do that. So you said the owner has not done I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure about that. Okay. Yeah.

All right. So I want to open the floor up to any of the uh commissioners that have any questions. Commissioner Russell. Um I have a couple of questions staff um remind me what is the uh permitting requirement for geologic testing for soils on residential single family lots if you know I don't think there is one

that's what I thought um I I do think we have and this this is more a comment for the commissioners and staff I think we have sort of unique situ situation here. It it at least being brought to our attention by surrounding property owners that there is an issue with clay soils uh in this property. It might be worth requesting uh of the applicant that a restriction be made on this development to require soils testing and structural foundation design for every single lot as part of the permitting process. That that would be my recommendation.

Mr. Overton, can can we make that recommendation or that condition? Can we apply that condition to this? Not this particular application. No, because that would be a substantial amendment and we wouldn't allow it. But he could defer and then and then make that part of his own application as a and include that as a condition. Mr. Gden, how many deferrals do they have left? They they have no more deferrals left. they've used their deferrals of. So, if we were to defer it, it would have to be an amendment to the bylaws. So,

okay, let me ask some questions of the applicant. You've heard the the concerns regarding the soil condition. They're very real. Um, it's been brought to the city's attention. The primary purpose of the city is to protect the public safety and health and welfare of the city and the people that live in it. And you've you've heard Jeremiah or Commissioner Russell uh asking about a geological study being done? Yes, sir. Would you allow us to amend your application to allow a geological study to be done? And what else did you want, Commissioner Russell?

Uh structural foundation design for each single family home as uh in order to issue a permit. Um that could be coming from the ge geological study like uh so right so you would have to do a soils analysis for each individual lot and then based on that soil based on that like they will they will have the foundation yes would have to then design the foundation to withstand whatever soil conditions are found. Yes. Would you be willing to do that? Yes we we can we can do that.

Okay. So whenever we make our motion when we when we vote on this application we need to add that those conditions. Thank you. Yep. All right. Commissioner Brown, go ahead. So this for the applicant. Um this is obvious. Were you aware of this issue before when you before tonight of this soils issue and what and what because I guess what I'm not seeing looking at this is a mitigation strategy for it in the application. We were aware that like this there is some there could be some soil issues but not as we did not study the soil yet so we did not have the total scenario.

Any other questions statements

there commissioners? I just I don't feel comfortable with this development right now as planned. I feel that we should either find a way that they can defer and have the soil studies and the foundational analysis [clears throat] before, but it just it seems to me a little bit concerning to recommend approval subject to the soil study and the foundational analysis. So, I I can address that if you like, chair. Yeah. [clears throat] Um, give me one second. I'm I'm making a note. Bless you.

Well, Mr. Russell, Commissioner Russell is doing that. I have I have to agree with Commissioner Baxter. I mean, this is compelling information along with the knowledge that the city is aware. So, um I don't feel comfortable approving this as well unless there's full information. So, it's it's not it's not unusual uh especially for Little Rock to encounter subpar soils. We have clay everywhere. Anybody ever been to the Delta? They don't they don't call it uh you know Delta mud for nothing. Um so, a a structural engineer here's our problem. the the ordinance the the building code as it's written does not require structural design uh structural foundation design for single family residential homes unless unsuitable soils are detected. That's a problem because we don't require soils testing for single family residential homes. The standard of care is to design a foundation to withstand uh between 2500 and 3500 PSI pounds per square foot on a foundation. So 12in x 24 in concrete footing, 8 in masonry wall, 3 ft high, back fill with gravel, etc. Every house you've ever seen built in the United States practically for the last 75 years. When you have clay, as has been described by uh surrounding property owners, it gets wet, it swells, then it dries, and it shrinks. That swelling and shrinking is what causes the cracking because it it gets bigger and then it gets smaller. Liquefaction is a problem that they have in California. That's when, you know, soils get wet and then they vibrate and a building will sink. That's called liquefaction. Clay doesn't do that. Clay

will do something that's called heaving. It will swell, but it'll swell to the point that it actually pushes the ground up. Now, in order to build these homes, if they do have that type of clay, they'll have to scrape back a certain amount of it. They'll have to remove it, you know, let's say 2 feet of dirt, build their footings, build their foundation, and then bring new dirt in for that house to sit on. This is all done by calculation. It's done every single day all over the United States in you know other much more problematic areas than Little Rock by requiring these two conditions. One soils analysis for each lot and two a licensed structural engineer to perform the foundation design will address the standard of care to protect the health, safety and welfare of the public that we as a commission are bound by. That would be my recommendation. All right. Thank you very much for that.

Yeah. So, so those conditions will satisfy that issue or address that issue of the concerns. Correct. Okay. Yes, sir. We are fine with that like we will um go over with the soil recommendation, soil engineers recommendation. Okay. Do we have any other questions? Yeah. This question to our city attorney. Um, even we put this stuff in here since we know this is a risk. Obviously, we as commissioners have some liability protection for my role here, but does that expose the city to additional and undue liability for moving this forward by accepting a plan with those kinds of conditions or

No, it it does not. I mean, we're putting conditions on an application because evidence has been brought to us that there's a public safety, health, and welfare issue. As Jere as commissioner Russell was pointed out and this might be something that we want to amend in the future. We have no obligation to even perform geological studies. So there would be no liability to this commission because we're going above and beyond what we're required to do. Uh the question then becomes uh what do we do with the information once it's given? I think we should add a condition that's provided to our our our planning department and then they have the ability to review it and uh basically um determine whether or not they they consider because we have engineers on staff that can review those those study uh those geological studies. Is that correct, Brad?

Yes, that is correct. And based on that information, you would know whether it would be safe to proceed with the development. Yes. Okay. So, we could add that that that they would submit it to our our planning department. They would do a legal or do a review and determine whether or not the development should go forward, whether it was safe or not. But now you still have the issue of the road. The road is public. So that is the city's problem.

Do we have any other questions or comments to address providing the board members? Uh if not, I would love to entertain a motion of what the conditions that were stated by commissioner. Vice Chair, you mind if I make the motion just so that everything is clear? Thank you. Um this is item number three, right? Uh, I make a motion to approve application S-20006 Eagle Place Preliminary Plat at 13,700 Alexander Road uh, as submitted uh, and with staff's recommendations and requirements outlined in paragraphs D and E of the staff analysis of the agenda staff report and with the following conditions. Number one, requirement of a soils analysis by a licensed geotech geotechnical engineer for each residential lot. Number two, requirement of a structural foundation design completed by a licensed structural engineer within the state of Arkansas. And number three, uh those first two requirements being submitted along with the permit application to planning commission staff for review. in addition to the regular uh permit review requirements.

All right. Well, the motion is on the table. Do we have a second? Second. Have a motion and a second. Now, please get a roll call vote. Commissioner Brown. [snorts] No. No. Hodes. Yes. McDonald. Yes. Person abstain. Russell. I Samad. Uh, no. Eves. Yes. Backter. No. Vickers.

No. Motion fails. Thank you very much applicant for coming [clears throat] in. The motion has failed on this particular item here. Chair. Yes. Go ahead. Can may I ask a question, please?

Uh mainly to Mr. Overton. Um this application did have a couple variances attached to it. Uh there are variances that will that are very easily easily remedied. The applicant can remedy those and it would change the application and they could refile it. Where does that put the issue if it's a Richardson case? Well, that that is that is going to be something that Tom and I are going to have to sit down and talk about because in a Richardson case, it typically states that if once you pass the minimum standards for a preliminary plat, all the considerations for public safety, health, and welfare have been considered, and the city of Little Rock has no discretionary authority to deny it at all. Now, I would not say that this is a Richardson case even if it meets all those standards because we are aware that the soil there are issues with the soil. And so for the city to require some sort of geological study, I do not think is unreasonable given the concerns involving public safety, health, and welfare. Now, the Arkansas Supreme Court may not agree with me u and that's why I'm going to talk to Tom, but uh I don't necessarily think this would fall under a rich because we are aware of the soil conditions. All right, staff, did you have any other questions? Okay,

thank you, sir. Thank you very much. All right. Um so, moving right along, we actually have nine and 9.1. Uh we would uh have the reading. Would you like to have a reading for both? Okay. All right. So we will have um the applicant uh for uh nine if you're present to approach the uh the podium.

And while the applicant is approaching uh and if you will, would you uh provide the reading for item number nine, please? Pull the wrist. Pull the [snorts] foot down. recorded.

I didn't want this spot.

Um, just for clarification, I'm not an applicant, I am staff. Um this is a land use plan amendment in the boil park um planning district um for an application from office to neighborhood commercial. Um the applicant is pursued concurrently with a resoning application file number Z10243 requesting from uh quiet office district 01 to neighborhood commercial district. The subject site is 1.1 acres of woodland undeveloped. Um, it has 245 ft of frontage along John Barrow Road and directly abuts a single family culde-sac development along its uh eastern boundary. The request is in the planning district is in planning district 10, the boil park planning district. The development principles of this district include the prioritization of residential development for undeveloped land, improving street infrastructure developing facilities for all modes of transportation, retaining land in environmentally sensitive areas as open space, especially along Rock Creek, and limiting commercial development along John Barrow Road and Kanes Road. The land use plan currently shows office for the application area. The office category represents services provided directly to consumers uh as well as general offices which support more basic economic activities. The application is to reszone the um area from 01 to or C1. Um as previously stated, the subject site is located in the John Barrow Road Design Overlay District. Uh the subject property is surrounded by a mix of office and residential uses um um within a probably half mile quarter mile radius. To the north, the property absuts a privately owned parking lot in the Second Baptist Church campus. South of the side is undeveloped woodland, also designated for office use and includes a drainage pond. To the east and northeast is a single family

subdivision and a multif family apartment development. across John Barrow Road to the west and northwest is characterized by existing office buildings and a multif family apartment complex. Um based on our analysis, there are more than 900 multif family housing units within a quarter mile radius of the subject site. Um staff finds the amendment request from office to neighborhood commercial is reasonable and appropriate given the site's location along John Barrow Road. um a minor arterial identified in the master street plan and its proximity to existing office and residential development. The proposed neighborhood commercial designation would allow for small-scale commercial uses that provide convenient goods and services to nearby neighborhoods while maintaining compatibility with surrounding office and residential areas. Let's see. Um staff supports the proposed land use plan amendment in the boil park planning district from uh office O to neighborhood commercial NC and recommends approval.

Thank you for the reading and Monty.

Item 9.1 is the reasonzoning application file number Z10,243. The applicant request to reszone this 1.037 037 acres of property. Again, located on the east side of Jean Bear Road, approximately 250 feet south of Leette Drive from 01 quiet office district, a C1 neighborhood commercial district. The reasonzoning is requested for future development of the property. The property is currently undeveloped. Staff is supportive of the requested reszoning to C1. Staff views the request as reasonable. The proposed C1 will represent a continuation of the zoning patterns in this area which contains a mixture of office and commercial zoning along John Barrel Road. [snorts] The property immediately south of the subject property is zone C3. The requested C1 zoning should have no adverse impact on the surrounding properties and staff recommends approval.

Thank you for the reading. Uh applicant uh if you will uh approach the podium and please state your name for the record. Jess Griffin the applicant. All right, Mr. Griffin. Uh, we do have a couple of cars that are in opposition. Um, you can defer your time and come back afterwards or you can speak now. Yes, I'd be happy to hear what their complaints were.

All right. Sure. [snorts] [clears throat] The first car we have is uh Pam Brown. Oh, you for Okay. I didn't know if it was Ford or And then the uh uh next card is the Brownwood uh Terrence residence. That's what it has. It doesn't have a name on here. Uh Do we have a speaker that will be speaking on behalf of the residents of the residents?

Yeah, there's two of us. Okay, if that's okay.

And please state your name, madam, for the record. Yes, my name is Chenalda Yansy. S H A N O L D A Y A N C Y and I'm a resident in the Brownwood terrorist neighborhood.

My name is Rose Cook. I live in Brownwood Terrace and I've been there since 1972. All right. Go ahead. The floor is yours.

Thank you so much. Um so we learned last week that um there was interest in providing a laundry mat um in the area that was provoken of. Um today we're here to say that we don't see the need for it being that there's already a laundry mat um maybe a half a block up the street. It's fun wash that's located between Le L Leette Drive and Kanes Drive. So, um we just we're not understanding what the need is for an additional laundry mat to be placed there. We're also concerned about the safety of the residents on Keltwood Drive um whose homes would be in the back of the laundry mat that is

Cove,

I'm sorry, Keltwood Cove. Thank you so much. Keltwood Cove, whose homes would be located directly behind um where the proposed laundry mat would be if if if approved. Um there's already enough traffic and noise in our area um up and down the John Barrel just I mean if we took from the interstate um going south toward um Colonel Glenn, there's there's enough traffic that we see there. enough traffic, enough noise. Um there's, you know, a few unhoused individuals in the area. Um so we we're concerned about our safety over there and then just the noise and and such that would come with having an additional laundry mat. We we just don't understand what that's for. Um we would like to know what the need is, you know, um how will it be manned if it is approved? Um, will staff be there all day? Um, if there is a need study, can we see that need study? Um, you we just need more information on this to to see, you know, why it would benefit our area to have a second second laundry mat there.

Did you have anything you want to say?

We didn't find out about this till about 10 days ago. We kind of uh surprised about this. So, it's a few of us homeowners here and uh we're older homeowners and we don't need extra traffic and uh the area is right behind where I live. I live in the culde-sac and it's just when you bring in not that people don't need laundry mats, but we have a lot of apartments around there who already have laundry mats in the apartments. and um you're just about walking distance from one laundromat to the next. So, we're just trying to find out what is the need. What's the you know,

we're also concerned about you. You want to say more? No. We're also concerned about u lowering it lowering our property value. um the odors and chemicals that might come along with having a laundry mat there, you know, right behind us. Th those are our concerns. And so, um we are excited that someone is interested in developing in our area and we thank you for that, but this is just not what we're looking for, especially in our backyards. Yeah. But definitely thank you all for that for addressing your concerns. Oh, I'd like to add that we we did uh have a petition signed and we were able to gather 46 signatures of um the residents in that in our home in our neighborhood.

Thank you. Thank you. All right. If we can bring you Mr. Chair. Yes. Go ahead. Uh staff would like to make one thing very clear on this application. This is not an application for a laundry mat. This is a request to reszone a piece of property from 01 to C1. C1 zoning comes with a fairly long list of neighborhood commercial uses that could be developed on this site. That's the issue before you. Is it appropriate? Is this property appropriate for C1 zoning? Not a laundrymat. Gotcha. And that's just what we received. Thank you so much for saying that. That was just the information that we received in our the communication to us and so that's why we address it as so. Thank you.

Thank you. If we could bring the applicant uh back up to the podium, please. And if you'd like to make any statements uh or not, it's your choice. Uh if not, we can uh we'll open the floor up. Um yes, I made a few a list for the how the development would be positive for the area. [cough and clears throat] I would like to address some of the concerns they had. Uh

they're saying there's no need. I looked at I guess there's a fund wash and it seems older and uh the guy that I'm working with that would do this, he has a very clean uh highly technological where you can do things from your cell phone. You can see when things are done. It's all uh it's it's very nice. He's got two or three of them already done in Little Rock. And when I went into him, I I was like, "Whoa, these are the cleanest places I've ever seen that are going to be that type of facility." Sir, uh as staff stated, what's before us today is a change of use from O to C,

right? Not a laundromat.

Okay. I'm just trying to address what they had concerns on uh the safety. I don't see how this would present any kind of safety issue for developing a lot along uh the John Barrow corridor. Um they talked about noise. Um, this development is probably about I looked at I think it's around 410 elevation is the home that's to the rear of this and the roadway is at uh 298. So you're talking about uh or uh no it's like two it's about 22 feet difference from John Barrow Road and that's at its high point to the elevation of the lot where the house is. So there's a significant amount of elevation change which in that of itself would contain the noise. You're way lower. There won't be any kind of sightly issue. Uh, [clears throat] and then traffic. I don't see how the traffic's going to cause an issue. It's fronting uh John Barrel Road, so there will be no traffic additional in their neighborhood um for this development. Um, I would like to point out staff did I work closely with them and they thought this to be an appropriate uh reasonzoning. We're looking at quiet office to a neighborhood commercial. So, we're trying to serve all the areas around there. Like we said, there's 900 multifamily units and there's other several other subdivisions. And so, we're trying to put a development in that's going to serve the community and be useful for the comm community in that area.

All right. Um

Um I'm sorry. Go ahead. It is on a minor arterial road. So, we're looking at trying to put a C1 development on a minor arterial. There's already access, sidewalks, all the infrastructure there. So, it makes a lot of sense by putting a development on a minor arterial road like it is. Um there's no environmental concerns. There's no floodway. There's no um we're going to do a drainage study. We'll do we'll follow all codes. They'll be still code compliance. So, we'll follow all the codes and uh fire code, utility, we'll do everything that's, you know, by the book for this development.

I think that's about it. So, if y'all have any questions, I'd be happy to answer. Oh, sure. Before I open the floor up to uh the commissioners here, go ahead, Monty.

Mr. Again, the issue before the commission is a reszoning from 01 to C1. It's obvious the develop the the current developer intends to do a laundry mat. But if you reszone this property to C1, that developer may decide not to do the laundrymat. There's a long list of acceptable neighborhood commercial uses that come along with the C1 zoning, but whatever is developed will have to follow the code, the development requirements of C1 zoning, the buffer, the landscaping screening codes. There will be a a land use buffer required along the east property line where it backs up to the residences. 70% of that buffer has to be remain undisturbed. There is a a screening requirement in addition to the buffer requirement. So whatever is developed here will be developed will have to be developed as per code.

Yeah. And and before I open the floor up to the uh board for questions, uh we did have a card in favor. Uh Mrs. Pam Brown, would you like to uh speak? All right. And if you don't mind, sir, uh please approach the podium. There is time still left. Um yeah, you can adjust the mic microphone.

Thank you to the commissioners. Thank you for allowing me to speak. I am Pam Brown Courtourtney. I am one of the owners of the property and as it has been stated before before you all is to have the property reszoned and with the reszoning of the property. I have owned this property with my partners for more than 20 years and the only type of interest that has been on John Barrel has not been favorable and I have chosen not to sell for that reason. I turned down Sunshine liquor store. I've turned down three different liquor stores cuz I did not feel that that was what was good for that community. I own a development right less than five minutes $15 million that I invested of my own money covenant cove community.com. So when I'm asking the board to consider reszoning I'm real handson and I'm going to make sure that the reasoning that's being asked is going to be followed. They're if you if you all reszone it to what they're asking for, they're not just going to get to decide that they're going to put something there that doesn't fit or something that doesn't work. You all are going to once it's reszoned, you all have a list of things that that zoning could comply with. I think for the property to be reszoned, we need development in that area. There has not been any development on John Barrett Road in more than 20 years. There there hasn't been anything there. So to have the someone to step forward, to want to zone, to change the zoning, to bring a service, something that's a service industry to that community, I think is good for the community and I would like for you all to take that into consideration. Thank you for your time.

Thank you very much. All right. And uh applicant, you can come back up to the podium here. I'm going to open the floor up to any uh to the board members for any questions or comments. Commissioner Brown.

Uh just a comment to the opposition. I think we've talked about this application is about reszoning and this does fit that. I'm a little bit concerned that there's they it's known what's going there that's not in the application. I'm a bit concerned that there's a known thing that's going in there but it's not in the application. Application is very broad. So we as commissioners from that standpoint kind of almost have to vote for this. But there is an appeal process to the board who has more flexibility than we do. But I mean of course honestly I grew up in that area. So I mean I think it's good there. But, you know, that's my personal opinion. But, I would encourage you if you have concerns, the board has more flexibility than we do. But, for me, this is I mean, it's an easy approval even though I have a a concern about transparency. So,

I hadn't been there in a while, but and I can't answer that. That wouldn't be appropriate for me to answer. I'm saying I grew up near there, so I know John Barrow well, and I I'm excited to see it getting more development. But again, what we're approving today is the zoning. And so this meets those requirements. Other stuff, I'll let y'all deal with that offline.

And I just want to say u we appreciate y'all time here. We know it's been taking it's going a while. If there is any um address to the board. Um we will appreciate if if you don't kind of just blurt out, no pun intended because I know Commissioner Brown was making a a question. So, I know you blurted out, but if there's any addressment, we want to make sure for the record that we speak on the microphone. So, um, moving right along. Any other questions or comments from any other commission?

Yeah, I just have a quick one. Um, I for one, personally, um, talking about being familiar with the area. I live in the area. Um, and I would love to see diversity and economic diversity in the area, but I do understand the voting process and for goodness sakes, my old high school teacher is here. So, [clears throat] uh, but nevertheless, I do understand how the process works, but, uh, I am also, Miss Rose, you I understand exactly what you're saying. Uh, but, um, we would love to see a a diverse economic development in the area. Um, but I do understand. I want you to understand that. I understand how what you're what you're talking about and what you're getting it. That's all I No, I understand. I mean, it's I mean, everything is up to spec, up to code and regulations. I mean obviously uh the development may be uh whatever stated or the letter that you all got or it may be something else you know but hopefully we can have some positive growth positive change and I'm just happy that the community did speak. I always like when you know you have the residents and the community they do provide whether it's positive or in opposition. So I do respect that and I and I appreciate that. But what we're voting on today here as I piggy backing off Commissioner Brown and Commissioner Persons is u you know the changing of you know uh of the zoning. So um if that standpoint if it meets all the codes and regulations I mean it's it's kind of cut and dry but uh if any other commissioner have any other statements or not if not I would love to entertain a motion.

Mr. Chair and file number LU2025-10-01 I move to accept staff's recommendation for approval of proposed land use plan amendment in the boil park planning district from office to neighborhood commercial. Now uh no we have a motion on table. I want to say this before a second. We do have to vote separate from 9 and 9.1. So this will be with item number nine. And after that uh voting we will have a motion for 9.1. Second for item number nine. I please get a roll call vote for item number nine. Yes sir. Commissioner Brown. Yes. Bernard. Yes. Hodes. Yes. Macdonald. [snorts] Yes,

person. Yes, Russell. Hi, Samad. Yes, Eves. Yes, Baxter. Yes, Vickers. Yes. Motion's approved. All right. Uh item number nine, motion is approved. Now, immediately following, I would like uh to a motion for item 9.1, please. Mr. Chair, file number Z-10243. I move to approve staff's recommendation of approval of the requested C1 reszoning. Second. I have a motion and a second. May I please get a roll call vote, please? Commissioner Brown, yes. Bernard, yes. Hodes, yes. Macdonald, yes. Person, yes. Russell, hi. Sad,

yes. Eaves, yes. Baxter, yes. Vickers, yes. Motion's approved. Thank you. Item number nine and 9.1 was approved. Thank you very much, applicant for coming.

Thank you. Have a good day. All right, we're going to move right along to item number 12. After item number 12, we will take a brief fiveinut uh uh recess if you will. So, we would have momentarily we will let uh everyone depart. We will give just a few seconds so everybody can depart and we will move right along to item number 12. If the applicant is present for item number 12, uh please make your way to the podium. And while you're making your way to the podium, uh, Monty, would you please provide the reading for item number 12?

Item 12, file number Z7154A. This is the Axe Senior Village PCD located at the southeast corner of John Barrow Road and West 40th Street. The applicant proposes to reszone 3.8 acres from R2 and [laughter] POD to PCD for a mixeduse development that will include a church, single family residences, and pop-up market space. A future phase of the development will contain a garden uh area as part of the overall development. The western portion of the properties located within the John Barrett DoD. Driveways from West 40th Street, West 41st Street, and 42nd Street will provide access to the overall development. Half street improvements will be constructed along these roadways. The developer will construct a new worship center that will contain 250 seats near the northwest corner of the overall development. 14 foot high canopy is proposed to extend from the front entrance of the building in the southwest direction toward the proposed parking lot. The building will contain spaces for administrative offices, meeting rooms, senior activities, afterchool programs, a kitchen and restrooms. The applicant is not proposing the child care a child daycare or health clinic at this time. Typically section 36502 requires 63 parking spaces for this proposed sanctuary use. The applicant has provided 67 spaces and staff feels that that is sufficient to serve the use. The applicant also proposes to build 10-story tiny homes for senior living along West 40th Street near the northeast corner of the overall development. Each tiny home will be approximately 600 square feet in area and will contain covered front rear porches. Uh, no STRs are proposed for these uh, dwellings. Section 36502 requires one parking space per dwelling unit for single family. Each tiny home will contain a 15 foot wide driveway with parking for at least two vehicles.

The development will also contain a weatherprotected ADA accessible popup market space at the southwest corner of the overall development. The applicant notes that the park the pop-up market spaces will operate as community gatherings place for the senior village. The spaces will contain sealed concrete floors, fully washable modular walls and metal roof panels. All furniture is intended to be portable. The spaces will operate during the day and evening, seven days a week with a maximum number of 20 full or part-time staff at any given time. At no time shall the spaces be utilized as storage facility for the senior village. The site plan shows 18 parking spaces dedicated for the pop-up market space. Staff feels that is sufficient with the additional parking for the sanctuary. The applicant notes that at some time in the future, the overall development will contain a garden center and a bike bike or walking trail throughout the property. However, those aspects of the development are not part of this application and will come back uh as a revised PCD at a later date. The Aquin is proposing to abandon some rights of way uh within this development. Uh those would be approximately 288 feet of the 10- foot wide alley ride ofway running from West 40th to West 41st Street. Approximately 288 linear feet of Long Koi Street extending from 41st 40th to 41st. approximately 135 linear feet of West 4041st Street extending from John Bar Road to the east between lots 12, block 157 and lot 7, block 158 of the John Barrow edition and approximately 50 ft of a 10- foot wide alley between lots six and seven, block [clears throat] 132 of the John Barrow edition. If approved by the planning commission, the proposed abandonment of the rights of way will be forwarded to the board of directors as a separate application. Staff is supportive of the overall uh

requested PCD zoning. The provided responses to staff concerns during the review of the application. Staff views the request as reasonable. The proposed development represents a pos positive investment for this undeveloped property in this general area providing community resources and additional housing options within this area. Staff recommends approval of the requested PCD zoning set to compliance with comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs DE and F and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Thank you, Monty. Applicant, please uh state your name for the record. My name is Terrence Balden. Mr. Balden here. Um we have a few cards that is opposition. Uh you can defer your time and come back afterwards or

Yeah, defer the time. Please have a seat here. All right. The first card here is Clara Cardis. If I'm saying that correctly, sir, Card Cardiche. Cardiche. Okay. Clara Cordrice. Thank you for a 20 year

um resident in the area and I'm directly there on West 40th Street. So, I have several concerns although I love diversity. I'm a senior now and um my concerns are regarding the safety. I have had several issues since I've been there on West 40th Street. And looking at the um the conditions of the street, that street should be a one-way street. It's very narrow street. And when we first put in addition to our neighborhood there regarding uh the barber shop which was owned by a previous owner. I questioned the mayor about the the street and the parking people park on both sides of the street. The street is too narrow for that. He advised that there would be a sign put up that there was no parking on both sides of the street, especially on that four right street right there where the property is that they want to build the area for um the senior village. There's no sign there. I've contacted the mayor. Nothing has happened in addition to the traffic. I mean, it's it's terrible on a Sunday. We have a church that's down the street and Sundays and doing uh daytime hours when folks are getting out of school. There's a school bus that goes down that street is really terrible. If I'm trying to get out my driveway, it's difficult to even get out my driveway if my neighbors next door are parked and I can't see what's coming down the street. So, that's a concern. I am really interested in how well they're going to vet

individuals that are going to be working for them and if there are senior housing folks that are going to be applicants going into this senior housing. I'm very concerned. I have called Little Rock Police Department several times. They should know me by now. Um, recently I've called because someone bashed my mailbox and it's off the post in front of my house and I asked for extra patrol. That has not happened. So, I have several concerns and I share those concerns with my neighbors. One had to leave earlier because we're taking a bit longer than usual and she had to go home. But safety, parking, traffic are all concerns that I have. I am in favor of diversity. I want to provide our community with these different services, but if we're not willing to go the extra mile to make sure that it's going to be safe, I I say no.

Thank you very much for your comments. You're welcome. Next car we have is Sandy Becca or Oh, yes. Sure. The next card is Vivian. Um Oh, she's gone. She's gone. Okay. All right. So, you're up.

Thank you. Um, my only reason for filling a card today was uh at the last neighborhood meeting we had, we had a couple people who still had questions. I was here in support of making sure those questions did get addressed. That is the reason I signed the card. Um, I do know Mr. Bolan and I know several other people here that do. I am generally in support of that. My concern was that whatever those others issues were that they did have an opportunity to be addressed. Okay. And I look also look forward to being able to work. Uh there's a lot of interaction that needs to take place in the neighborhood. By the way, I live about five blocks away. So I I'm very much a neighbor. There's a lot of integration that has to be done because this is basically building almost like a new neighborhood in a sense. a small one into this and there's a things that need to be mixed in. So that's my expression that we need to be working together for that. But my only concern was making sure that the issues that people still had at least got addressed today. Thank you. Thank you. All right. If the applicant will uh come back up to the podium here. Have you kind of heard some concerns? I will let you go ahead and uh speak on that first. Uh the floor is yours. If it's okay, I'd like to talk about the history of the property owner and the the actual project. Uh I'm an engineering technician by trade and some of the geological questions I heard, you know, I was working for Grubs, Ghanaian, and Hoskins Engineers back in 1984. Kind of date myself a little bit, but this property is owned by Axe Community, Agape Community Temple Servants. They've been a property owner and a community member since 2002, if I remember, when

there first built the strip center that the city's neighborhood association owns uh I should say rents a space in there. Um we've had seniors who we charge no funds to over the years to access those facilities. We've been a good neighbor and a good community member as a property owner. The property across the street that we're on between 4th and 42nd has been planned for some type of development for quite some time. It's just that now is a good time to do it because we have people in our church that are aging out and other people in our communities that are getting older. As a country, we have a problem with affordable housing for seniors, especially single homes for seniors where they still have the blessed use of their body, their mind. They can take care of themselves. These are the seniors that would be living in this area. 55 to 75 years of age is the targeted uh group. the charter in the area would dictate what types of individuals by way [clears throat] of character, history, affordability, these kind of things that would uh be a part of that community. I mean, you have a village of seniors um who we're looking to serve that may not be able to afford housing in other areas. We did a complete report on Arkansas as a state. We have a housing problem for seniors in this state and we wanted to address that in that area. We believe that diversity of economic development, empowerment in any area is a good thing. That's why the pop-up fresh food market, food for seniors, healthy, clean food, uh, as a part of the development, proposed development. As Mr. Becker stated, we've been, Mr. Becker, a good neighbor. We've worked with your community, uh, the neighborhood association for years, Miss Dors, right over there and others. Uh, I don't think that's going to change. Our

pastor is committed to seeing uh that we're a good neighbor and that the people that we serve in the area are not harmed. Uh any of the issues that go to safety, we have uh a neighborhood uh organization in that area that serves people who are re-entering into our community. Um that's I lived in Barrow Road neighborhood for almost 15 years back in the 80s. So, I'm a familiar with that area off of Little Bet Manor Drive and then again off 3120 Hot where my brother still lives and is a resident owns a home there. So, I'm not unfamiliar with the neighborhood and the kinds of things that have went on over the years. However, I don't see this particular development proposing any kind of threat of safety to the neighborhood. And I think those individuals because of the way that we plan to manage the neighborhood with security 24/7 there will be security on site uh to help ensure those seniors are safe and um it's a managed type living condition where the walkable spaces that even connect back to West Central uh long-term planning um areas where they can hang out when the weather is good. uh gardens that they can maintain, you know, to continue to exercise and build health healthy uh living standards as they grow older and a communal effect where they can work together uh for the greater good. And then the popup uh fresh food market along with the pop-up market is something for economic development empowerment in the area where community members would be have first choice to use that facility as space uh to sell their wares and goods and things to the community in the area where they live. I think I heard somebody say it's been 20 years since a major development took place on Barrow Road. Uh you've got a church uh that's been there. The main facility for the

worship center is not to add a new church per se. It's a meeting space. It's a worship center as a meeting space non-discriminatory. The the community by design will be inhabiting that space, using it. There are rooms designed in there for training, community development, mentoring, uh young people, those kinds of things. And so, it's a community space is what we're looking at. Something that we can give back to that community uh where we've been a part of for years. and do something with the land that we own over there.

All right. Um, good deal. With that being said, I would just go ahead and open the floor up to the the board and see if they have any questions, comments. Commissioner Russell.

Um, so I I just want to briefly address staff and the commission about this one. Uh, I wanted to speak about this application specifically. This should be the minimum standard that we expect for developments to come before this planning commission. The site plan shows contextual information. It shows a clear path of development. It shows a clear path of what the various uses are, roadways, access, sight lines, fencing, [snorts] property lines, etc. The elevations of the worship center clearly show a maximum building height. They show, you know, parapit heights. Even the residential um I I wouldn't necessarily call them tiny homes, but the the residential units, it shows a very clear uh design aesthetic. This is the standard that we should see every single month at this commission. So, Quandiche, I know you had a hand in this project. Thank you for such a well-crafted uh design and presentation. That's all I have.

Any other questions, comments? Uh quickly, I'll make a comment just to I believe it's Mr. Becker. Um it seems that I think you mentioned Mr. Balden. Uh clearly with only 10 tiny homes with 250 seats in the worship center, the intent is to have a community impact with this operation. Correct. Did you? Yes. Now, there are going to be other homes built in the future. We own a lot of property out there. So, that's this is the first phase of a prolonged process over the next decade of building that development out.

The will the residents of your tiny homes come from across the city? Like what like who's going to be living in these tiny homes? Is it just elderly people or elderly people from

Well, yeah. I mean, these are again 55 to 75 year old individuals, uh, seniors. Uh, we're not going to be discriminating against individuals that from a a standpoint of view of who lives there kind of thing by name. However, the charter will allow that you need to be in this age range. These are the kind of rules and guidelines for the community uh where we don't have an overage of traffic in the neighborhood designed for people who live there. So those are the kind of things that we expect to see. I

have a question for staff. If they were to build additional homes in the future, would they have to come back here or they can just build as needed? It depends on where they want to build them and what the how the propertyy's platted. I mean, you know, if they buy an entire block of property and decide they want to build one house per lot, then you won't see that. But I think you're building, you have, you're saying you may build or you're going to build in the future on this particular property, right? I mean, if you look at the property uh outline, we own property all the way from 40 to 42nd Street, right? So, we have to come back here because just and by design,

again, it depends if they're if they're going to do something similar to the tiny homes where where the lots are smaller and and don't comply with the the typical single family standards, they would do that as a planned development or um as as a a revision to this plan development. So, you could see it. It's possible. It's going to be highly unlikely because that's going to be the standard. Okay. Any other questions? Commissioner Brown.

Just just to comment, I agree with Commissioner Russell. This is good detail. For those who don't know, this part of town actually are a lot of homes for elderly in this area. So, I actually do think this actually a good plan because um for reasons I won't get into, I recently discovered how much rehabilitation and elderly stuff there is in that area. And I have to say as far as like fitting the need in the area and having access to additional resources, it's actually I don't usually comment on the things being a good plan, but this is actually a typically good plan. So,

but I do want to comment on one thing. She talked about the streets and the narrowness of the streets in that area from Barrow Road all the way back to the park. We have narrow road issues because it never been redeveloped and rebuilt over the years. Um, that's probably a question for the board, but I just wanted to make that comment. All right. Any other questions, comments? If not, I would love to entertain a motion.

Item number 12, file number Z-7154-. I move to accept staff's recommendation of approval of the requested PCD zoning subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraphs D, E, and F, and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Second. Have a motion on the second map. Please get a roll call vote. Commissioner Brown, yes. Bernard, yes. Hodgees, [snorts] yes. Macdonald, yes. Person, yes. Russell, I Samad, yes. Eves, yes. Baxter, yes. Vickers, yes. Motion's approved.

Motion is approved. Thank you very much. Have a great day. Thanks for everybody coming out on this item as well. Uh at this particular time, we're going to have a quick recess here, a fiveminut recess and um well maybe six minutes. So we're going to uh we'll be back here at 6:05. We will rec reconvene and be back at 6:05 and we will have item number 17. Do you know? Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Do you know that

you know Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Do you know

All right, ladies and gentlemen, uh we want to uh We want to call the meeting back to order

and we want to and we appreciate your time definitely. Uh but we want to go ahead and just carry on so we can expedite this uh officially and respect your time. So we want to start with item number 17 is the applicant present. All right. Please uh make your way to the podium and as you're making your way we will have the reading. Monte if you will.

Item 17 final rece 10,244. This is the Lotus 678 Trust STR2 PDC located at 7324 West Markham Street. This 0.42 acre property is proposed to be reszoned from R2 to P PDC to allow the property to operate as a short-term rental with a maximum stay of 29 days. The owner will not reside in the residence. The residence is currently not being used as a short-term rental and the home will be rented out as one unit. Uh the property is occupied by 1380 foot one-story single family residence. There is parking on site for at least four vehicles. There have been no department of planning and development enforcement cases nor any police reports for this property. Uh so far the city of Little Rock has uh approximately 132 short-term rentals uh within our database that have been approved. Staff is supportive of the requested reasonzoning to allow short-term rental too and staff recommends approval of the PDC subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report.

Thank you for the reading. Applicant, please state your name for the record. Becca Sworn. All right, Miss Sworn. Um, you do have one card in opposition. You can speak [snorts] now or you can defer your time and come back afterwards. I'll defer. All right, please have a seat. Uh, we do have one card and I believe is it Lesa Thomas? Lisa Thomas. Thank you. Okay. You can you can bring the mic down if you need to.

I am a little shorter. Okay. I'm Lisa Thomas and um I'm not sure that I'm truly uh against this um against the short term. I got this certified letter on Christmas Eve and as you all know, we're all running on Christmas Eve and um I hadn't had much time to check into all the details, but you did answer one question that there's 132 short-term rentals right now. I don't know how many that are in the area. I'm seeing a lot of new um pro properties sold in the area that are young couples and I love that they have children and you see them walking and um that's all great. Um but I'm not really sure much about this short-term rental. Like I said, when I got this, I mean, you'd see these little letters and numbers and reasonzoning and you're not really sure what that even means. But I mean um I mean who maintains the property? Uh and uh what other uses could this be used for? I mean it's like under 29 days or under. I mean what else could someone put in there? Um I just don't know. I don't know all the questions to ask and I hadn't had time to research it with the holidays. But anyway, those are just a few of my concerns. Um, so there you have it.

Thank you so much. And I haven't been here before and so thank you all. All right. And we're going to have the applicant come back up to the podium here. Um, so at this particular time, um, this got moved to the regular agenda. It was consent approval. Um, you've heard an opposition, uh, that Mrs. Thomas, she's not really in disagreement, but didn't get the information to later. uh if you will uh you're more than welcome to speak or I can just go ahead and open the floor up to the board members for any questions for you.

Yeah, we've been here a long time so I'll keep it brief but her concern is definitely valid if people don't know what a short-term rental is or who is the one doing it. So to answer your question I know I can't address you but my husband and I are the ones who oversee the management of our properties. Um we do we are super hosts but we also strive to be super neighbors. So people who are within close um who live like immediately next door or behind or across the street or something like that, we make an effort to meet them so that they've got our phone number. They reach out to us if they have any concerns, if they've got family in town who want to stay at one of our properties. Um the purpose of short-term rentals, we love the city that we live in. We like bringing people here. Um we have everybody from people passing through because they're moving cross country to a ton of people who come in for medical purposes. Um we've got one staying currently who is not at this property but at one of our houses out in West Lok who um their mo their father is getting ready to pass. Um another one who's just received a clinical trial approval for their 8-year-old son and so they just departed this morning from a property in North Little Rock. So that to answer your question, those are those are kind of the people that come and go. Um we are intentionally local to Little Rock. So we live out in West Little Rock, but my husband and I, it's our full-time job. Um and we do maintain very good observation over the the properties that we manage or that we own and and oversee that management, too. Um so we watch the cameras, we vet the guests, we don't allow people staying who um who don't have any prior reviews or who have negative reviews in the review history. Um, and that just gives us the opportunity to reach out and make the decision for ourselves. Do we feel comfortable if we were the next door neighbor, would we feel comfortable hosting this person beside us? So, thank you for your time.

Thank you. Uh, I'm going to open the floor up to the board with any questions or comments. And if not, uh, love to entertain a motion. Mr. Mr. Chair, I move to accept staff's recommendation of approval of the PDC subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E and the staff analysis the agenda staff report. Second. Have a motion and a second. May I get a roll call vote, please? Commissioner Brown, yes. Bernard, yes. Hodes, yes. McDonald, yes. Person, yes. Russell, hi. Smad, yes. Eve, yes. Backter, yes. Vickers, yes.

Motion's approved. Motion approved. Thank you very much for coming in. Moving right along to item number 18. Is the applicant present. All right. Please make your way to the podium. And while you're doing that, Monty, if you will provide the reading.

Item 18, file number Z 9076A. This is the gray short-term rental 2* 2 PDC, 1421 Cumberland Street. The Equin is requesting to reszone this 0.16 acre property from PDR to PDC to allow the property to operate as a short-term rental with a maximum stay of 29 days. Uh the home is a two-unit townhouse, units A and B. Unit B has been utilized as a short-term rental since 2022. Unit A, the property owner will live in that unit part of the year with when the property owner is not there, the request is to have that as a short-term rental. Also, the property is occupied by 3788 square foot two-story townhouse, each unit being 1894 square feet in area. There is existing off- streetet parking for at least four vehicles. There have been no department of planning and development enforcement cases, nor any police reports for this property. Staff is supportive of the requested reszoning to allow short two short-term rental twos. Staff recommends approval of the PDC subject to compliance with comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report.

Thank you, Monty. Applicant, please state your name for the record. My name is Joyce Gray and Oh, okay. I'll defer. Oh, well, you know, you have one card in opposition, but since you said you're going to defer, you can please have a seat right at the front. And uh we have one card. Uh John Norcross.

Good evening, commissioners. I have great news for you tonight. I will not use all 20 minutes that's allotted to me. And very briefly, what I'm going to ask is that this request be put on hold for as well until a study can be conducted in the number of Airbnbs, short-term rentals in the Paway uh area. But now, what makes a great neighborhood? I know you folks have probably lived in Little Rock a long time, farther longer than I have. The first time I ever came to Little Rock was 1986. Do you remember what downtown Little Rock, what we now call, you know, river market used to look like back then? It was desolate. And why? Because nobody lived downtown. But some people, some developers took risks. They invested in the downtown area. And look at how many people are living downtown and how that has affected the area. Pedway South Maine is a great example. You know, there was a a depressed area if you familiar with the history of Pedawa, but then there were some changes. Property owner died as well and it open as well as a tornado came through and cleared out some property and people took risks to invest in Pedawway because one, it was affordable. It was much cheaper than uh building homes in Hillrest or in the Heights. They took risk and they built homes, all kinds of homes. And what happened to the neighborhood? How many people have gone to the restaurants in South Maine? Okay, we know what a great neighborhood Pedawway is now. But what are neighborhoods built on? It's built on people who are there for each other, who look after each other, who look after each other's property. They look, you know, they're curious when people

from uh that are start, you know, going down the street and they start uh, you know, going to up to doors to see if they're open. My concern is in the Pedawway neighborhood is how many short-term rentals is enough? Uh I submitted uh an email to the planning commission. So you have that for the record. But u around Christmas time I did a search on Airbnb VRBO and just for the period from January 1 January to 28 February just to see how many properties were available within a half a mile of my home. I live on 15th Street just down the street from Joyce who's a wonderful woman and has been a great neighbor. And there were over third there were no there were 30 properties listed as being available during that time period. My concern is one I think you'll all agree is the city ordinances having to do with short-term rentals is not very explicit. It's not very broad and it doesn't consider density. So, and I don't think anyone has a good handle on how many short-term rentals there are in Pedawa. I get out, I run a lot, and so I can tell houses that I suspect are short-term rentals, for example. And I included the pictures just down the street from me on 16th Street. There were some very nice, cute little small homes about maybe a thousand square feet, probably less. And during Christmas, there were no cars there. Okay. Well, then right after Christmas, there were two cars, but they also had out of state plates. You had the security cameras by the doors. I don't know, but there's a good chance those are short-term rentals as all. My

point being is the planning commission, the city needs to better understand how many short-term rentals there are in Pedawaway before proving any others. This is the second time I've spoken from the plan uh front of the planning commission about Cumberland, excuse me, uh Cumberland specifically. I live in the middle of the block uh you know uh closer to 16th Street. This is right on the corner of 15th in Cumberland, but I'm right outside that 200 feet limit. So, I didn't get a letter. 200 feet is actually not very far. The only reason I knew about this is although I drive by every single day coming home from work, there was no sign visible. But one day I was running by, just finished a long run, and on the side of the house, I've included the picture, uh, I saw, what's that green sign sticking on the sticking on the side? And I walked over and sure enough, there was the as required plan development sign that's required by the city. So, did she put the sign out? Absolutely. Did she have a problem that the wind blew it off the house where it would be clearly prominent that what everyone would see? Absolutely. But I don't think the intent was to have a sign that nobody could really see that was not clearly visible. So my the uh I ask that the planning commission put this request on hold because that would be the corner of 16th and Cumberland would be all short-term rentals. Her properties A and B directly across the street the on the corner of 15th and Cumberland is a short-term rental and down the street 16th and Cumberland is a short-term rental as

all. Please, please, please, I beg you, get an idea of what's out there and then somehow figure out what is the right density for short-term rentals. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right, there are not any any more uh cards on display, so we will have the applicant to come back up to the podium.

Thank you. Thank you. First, I I apologize. I didn't even say good evening. Go ahead. The floor is yours. I just want to say I respect Mr. John, I believe his name was, but uh I'm a good neighbor. I do live in unit A, my husband and I. We come back and forth. I care for a special need brother. So I am here more often than not. So I live in A. We rent short-term rental on B. We have done that for the last since the year was mentioned. And we've been super hosted for 18 quarters. We respect our neighbors. We visit with our neighbors. We know our neighbors. And we are a neighbor. I'm from Arkansas. So, this is home. I have family here. I have brothers, sisters who are there. They check the property when I'm not there. When someone is in there short term, we definitely know who our renters are. We make sure the rules are all posted. No one is violated. As we said, no one has had a need to report any needs. So the neighbors, I know Kaylee, I know John, I know my neighbors. So when I'm there, we do what neighbors do. We visit and we maintain. So I respectfully um disagree that it should be declined because we have shown that we can be a good renter, a good neighbor, and we're residents.

Thank you. At this particular time, I'm going go ahead and open the floor up uh to the board if they have any questions or comments. Uh, I'll just say for the record, those two units that he mentioned, those are long-term rentals. The reason people weren't there during Christmas is because they were out of town and then they came back. So, just to clarify, I live in the neighborhood. I live outside area of influence, but I live in Pedawway. This is my neighborhood. Like, I walk my dogs down 15 Rock all the time. I thought you were going to tell me you a psychic, Mr. Russell. [laughter] I just I'm just I'm just kidding. I know the apartments. No, I'm just kid. Okay. All right. Any other comments or questions? If not, I would love to uh just go I'm sorry.

Just for the for the information or for the knowledge of the opposition staff, we do have a list of short-term rentals. Correct. We do. Yes. And then what's the number? Where are we at right now of the 500? Uh we are in 132 of 500. And are those addresses are those publicly available? We we keep a a a list. So, yes. And just to further clarify that for the opposition, we actually at one point had a heat map of where they were. You guys do analyze that. We we Yes, we have a we also have a map that that we use a GIS layer. Go ahead.

But also with respect to the number in an area, the code does not address that. The area is the city limits of Little Rock and the ordinance allows up to 500. There are no separation issues. There's there's nothing that in that that talks about a number in an area other than that. Thanks for the statement. I move to u accept staff's recommendation of approval of the PDC subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report and file number Z-9076- A. Second. I have a motion in the second. May I please get a roll call vote, please?

Commissioner Brown, yes. Bernard, yes. Hodes, yes. Macdonald, yes. Person, yes. Russell, I. Sant, yes. Eves, yes. Baxter, yes. Vickers, yes. Motion's approved. The motion approved. Thank you very much. And thank you [clears throat] everybody for coming out on this uh action item. My first visit, so it wasn't bad.

Thank you. Our uh last item on the agenda is item number 19. Is the applicant present? And while the applicant is coming up, Monty, if you will provide the reading. Item 19, final res 10,221, the LLTM LLC STR2 PDC located at 220 North Monroe Street. The applicant is requesting to reszone this property from R3 to PDC to allow the property to operate a short-term rental 2 with a maximum day maximum stay of 29 days. The owner will not reside in the residence. The residence is currently vacant and not being used as short-term rental. The property is occupied by an 1120 square foot one-story single family residence. The there is existing off- streetet parking for approximately three vehicles. There have been no department of planning development enforcement cases nor any police reports on this property. Staff is supportive of the request to reszone for short-term rental. Staff recommends approval of the PDC subject to compliance, the comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E, and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Thank you for the reading. Applicant, would you please state your name for the record?

My name is Cheyenne Smok and I'm speaking on behalf of Biata Rhodess. I'm her agent. Okay. For the LLMT, her TM. And your last name again is that is Smok. Smok. Okay. Thank you, Mrs. Smok. Okay. Um, you do have a few cards that are in opposition. If you'd like to speak now, you more than welcome to or defer your time and speak afterwards. Okay. Yeah, I'll defer. Thank you. All right. So, we have um a few cards. The first card is uh is it Erin Brun if I'm saying that right? Defer. Defer. All right. Perfect. All right. The next one is Megan and help me with the last name. Pleski. Pleski. Hi. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening.

Hey, I'm going to read to stay organized. Thank you. Um my name is Megan Pletki and I live at two doors down from the 220 North Monroe property in the Hillrest Historic District. I'm here to ask you to deny the short-term rental license application for this property because approving it would undermine the three core responsibilities of the city. Public safety, housing stability, and preserving our historic Hillrest neighborhood. This is not a commercial district. It's a walkable residential neighborhood built built around long-term residents who know each other, care for their homes, um, and look out for one another. And a short-term rental erodess that fabric. This property would join a growing concentration. I understand you addressed that in the last comment, but I'm still concerned with the concentration um in this area in a small radius, including one directly across the street. So, we do already have an Airbnb directly across the street. Um these are not owner occupied. Many are owned by out ofstate corporations with no daily presence or accountability to the neighborhood. Um and I do want to mention that there are serious safety concerns on Monroe Street. So, this is a narrow street with parking restricted to one side. Permanent residents understand and respect this. However, we really struggle with short-term guest as they do not. And more than once, I've personally witnessed firet trucks unable to pass through the street where they have to stop, honk, get out of their cars, and knock on doors in order to move through the road. Um, empty properties also attract unsafe activity. We understand being in the middle of the city, we have a very walkable neighborhood. There are people out and about all the time. We appreciate that. Um, however, I have witnessed unhoused individuals sleeping on porches and entering vacant properties. And while I fully support and compassionate solutions for housing, abandoned or intermittently occupied houses are not the right solution. Um, and it's not safe for the residents, the neighbors, or those seeking refuge. It's not a safe environment for them. From what I've observed, the short-term rentals in our neighborhood are empty the majority of

the time. So, I would respectfully ask that you would not grant another license here and prioritize this outside profit over the community at hand. Thank you. Thank you. The next card is uh Kevin Pleski.

Hello. [clears throat] Hello. Good evening. My name is Kevin Pitky. I'm a husband of Megan Pitzki uh with a home and res of 28 North Monroe. So, we're just a house over from the property. Uh I respectfully oppose the issuance of this license. Um, so the portion of Norman is already experiencing over oversaturation of short-term rentals. Um, you know, Hillrest is very popular with people to come to Little Rock and stay in this historic neighborhood. There's an active short-term rental directly across the street at 221 North Monroe, just one number over as well as there's another one operating on our block at 415 North Monroe. Um, I have sent an email to the commission with my letter. They should have supporting documentation. I was wondering if you can guys pull up the map that I attached uh to demonstrate the oversaturation of Airbnbs in our neighborhood. Is it possible to do?

So I'm not sure that would be No problem. I have a map here. I would like to I can pass it around if you guys prefer. I have a multiple copy. Yes. Which way? you just give it to me. Sorry about that. I like that.

So, that map that I passed around, um, you know, I went around uh Airbnb and VBO, found some properties, attracted addresses, found the listings. I attached it to the end of my email as well. I can provide the copies as well, but it should be in your in your folder in your mailbox. Um, all of these are active and whe at least there's at least nine that I found. It could be more but uh there's a couple uh multi-unit Airbnbs that already present and uh the cumulative impact has already strained parking as my wife mentioned increased noise uh and diminish the residential character of our neighborhood. Approval of additional license in such close proximity would further exaggerate those issues. The property [snorts] owners are based out of state and the property is likely intended to function primarily as investment asset rather than part of the local residential community. I met the owners. They are based out of California, Vista, California. That's where the LLC is registered. Uh even though they have agent locally. Uh however, they won't be aware of the state of the house, how it's managed, uh what conditions, what what impact it has on the neighborhood. Um I know there is a limit in the city of 500. It sounds like all 500 might try to squeeze into a Hillrest neighborhood. As you can see on the map, the number is growing. I think since I live in in the Hillrest neighborhood for the last three years, I've seen at least uh four approvals of a short-term rentals that popped up. So, it just continuing problem in our neighborhood that that's where people want to stay and experience the litter rock. So, the parking uh and you know, public safety, my wife already mentioned on it, especially about the fire truck. I see multiple times fire trucks drive down the street. Uh sometimes it's not an emergency, sometimes an emergency. We had a fire before on the Lafayette Street. Uh if the uh residents or the you know guests of Airbnbs will park illegally because they're just not aware what to park like we had this constant issue there. The truck won't able to make through to the fire, maybe not able

to save the lives. So that's it's very tight neighborhood. It's very tight parking in there. Um there has been repeated instances of a proper parking by contractors and individuals associated to 20 North Monroe. I had to multitask come out and speak to them. I actually had to argue with the owner from California about that you're not allowed to park on the side of the streets. So, this is a continuing issue and I don't see how the owners were able to relay that message to the residents uh the people who are staying there because they're just not going to follow the instructions, park incorrectly and potentially cause public issues. I know there's a parking requirement. They mentioned three parking spots uh at the location. So, the way to meet that requirement, they just dump gravel on the flower bed. Uh and there's a lot of gravel and that gravel is on a on a steep hill. That's where the house is located. The driveway itself is on another hill. So um when you have so much gravel that gravel will migrate to the street eventually which can create long-term maintenance, drainage and rightway issues for the residents around and people passing through. So for these reasons as I mentioned uh I oppose the issuance of this license. I appreciate your time. Have a good evening.

Thank you. And did um would you uh like to speak or or you just want to make a a record the state? Okay. Sure. Um, chair. So, if you look in your opposition folder, you will find the links that the Pleskis have sent over with the research that they did. If you have access to that. Yeah, please come to the podium here. [clears throat] Okay.

Hello, my name is Aaron Brun. Um, I think they've hit basically on everything that would be a concern you guys discussed in the previous um, clearly this is something that's going along across all neighborhoods in Little Rock and is an issue. I'm probably a little bit more directly affected as I live next door to one of the Airbnbs already. It is a tight street. Um there's only parking on one side of the street. More often than not, my driveway has been blocked numerous times. There are signs, there are multiple things, but it's not being adherred to. Those neighbors also live out of state um and have continuously been an issue. I have people that come onto my property asking questions. It creates just more traffic. Um I talked to um the owners I think and when I had asked them they had said that they are going to rent the property for long term. Um which is fine more than happy to have that people that we can get to know. Um there's a safety issue with always having people rotate. Um I do federal investigations. I try to be observant of everybody around me. So I just think it creates more of a safety issue um for the whole neighborhood. It devalues our property and this is not a motel area. That's why we have those. So, I oppose it. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Mr. Smok. Would you please come back up to the podium? And you've heard uh some of the concerns uh to address. Um I would uh love to hear some response.

So, um I completely understand I mean the need for the safety and wondering about especially Biata being out of state. I will say Biata is not a corporation. She's actually a family friend of mine. Um, that's why I'm her agent and that's why I'm representing her because I actually live about three streets down. So, I am the person who will be here 24/7 making sure that the propertyy's taken care of and all this. And on top of that, so the parking situation, I completely understand that, but we do have a onecar garage along with two spots in the driveway. We are not going to allow any of our residents to park on street. that's not going to be in any of our short-term rental contracts with anyone. It is absolutely not allowed in our housing rules. The other thing is that um we're actually marketing towards uh traveling nurses since we are so close to the hospital. All of our Airbnb uh Verbos, I think we're also on like Furnishfinder. All of that is geared specifically towards traveling medical care. So, it's going to be our traveling nurses, our traveling doctors. If people are coming in for US stays that need, that's what it's all geared towards. It is not geared towards people coming on a vacation, people just hanging out to see the historic district. That is not what we are geared towards at all. Um the other thing once again, yes, Biata is out of state and yes, she's in California, but everything that she does is local. So her and her family actually lived here for I think the past 6 months before they left in December to go back to California, but they stayed here for 6 months to make sure that this rental property and another rental property were taken care of. And they lived in those rental properties to know the neighbors and get to understand the neighborhoods and what was going on. Um they also have me once again. I am here 24/7. I am a permanent resident of

Little Rock and I am the one who comes through and make sure that the properties are maintained, that they're taken care of. I have access to every single one of the properties and I will always have access to those properties. All right. Thank you. Well, uh, without further ado, I want to open the floor up to, uh, questions or comments from any of the commissioners. Commissioner Brown, are you a professional manager or are you just a family? I guess

I am. So, I am an agent for her doing I am paid for by her. She has another professional like an actual licensed professional management company that does um like the fixing of the house and making sure that we're vetting and the backgrounds are being checked for everybody. All of that is done professionally, not by me. Where who does that and where are they at? I would have to check with Biata, but I'm pretty everything she does I know is local. So, our cleaning services is all local. Um, our background services are all local. All of it is done in Little Rock. Yeah. I mean, the cleaning ass. So, so you're not a professional manager is is the

No, I'm just the one who takes care of the property for her. Commissioner, also just clarification for staff, the applicant is meeting all of the requirements of the STR ordinance. They're not asking for any variances, no special treatment, no deviations of any kind. That is correct. Thank you. Any other uh questions or comments? Uh if not, I would love to entertain a motion.

Mr. Chair, 9 number 19, file number Z-10221. I move to accept staff's recommendation of approval of the PDC subject to compliance with the comments and conditions outlined in paragraph E and the staff analysis of the agenda staff report. Second. I have a motion and a second. I please get a roll call vote. Commissioner Brown, no. Ward, yes. Hodes, yes. McDonald, yes. Person, yes. Russell, hi. Samad, yes. Eves, yes. Backter, no. Vickers, yes. Bot approved. Thank you. Thank you very much, active. Thank you guys for your time.

Have a good day. All right.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for coming out on this issue and uh we always appreciate and thank for our citizens and and neighbors of the community coming out and uh addressing these concerns and being a part of our meetings. So moving forward, are there any other public addresses that we need to make? And we always I will say this, we always appreci for always being uh supported and a part of it. So we appreciate her her time and commitment to our to our board. All right. And uh moving forward, if nothing else, we do have election night. This is election night. We uh have uh the new elections for the new year of the 2026. we have the elections for uh chair and co-chair and I would just like to add that I really been happy to uh just serve humbly as uh your your chair for the for the previous year and just to be a part of the esteem board uh I think we have the best board in the city uh but not counting the city board [laughter] so uh so I guess with that we'll start uh if there's any uh nominations for chair we'll start with chair I'll nominate Joshua Baxter for chair.

Second. Yeah. Any other nominations for chair? All right. And I guess we can do uh just uh all instead of going to roll call, we just say uh all in favor of uh Commissioner Baxter as chair. I I Any nays? Nay. Nay. All right. We got uh seemed like we had more eyes than nay. So uh we have na for for chair commissioner Joshua Baxter. Congratulations sir. Uh the next one here is for co-chair there. Any nominations for co-chair? Yes I nominate commissioner McDonald. All right we have a nomination for Commissioner McDonald. Any other nominations? I just want to second the nomination.

We have a second nomination for Commissioner McDonald. Yes. Second nomination for Commissioner uh Commissioner McDonald. Excuse me. Uh any other nominations? If not, uh I guess it's unanimous. Uh all in favor for co-chair for Commissioner McDonald in favor. I I nay. Eyes have it. Uh congratulations Commissioner McDonald for co-chair and uh I'm sure that uh it would be great and we really respect and appreciate all of our commissioners for this uh for doing just a great job and showing up definitely uh on nights like this and days like this and the beginning of the new year. We have a statement from Mr. Brad.

Yes. Thank you uh uh Commissioner uh Vickers. I just want to say just on the record how thankful uh we as a staff and as a city are for uh Commissioner Vickers for his service. I believe uh he has served as uh chair for for two terms and he did. Wow.

Yeah. And and and he he has done a phenomenal job. We we all sit here and we see all the emotion that that sometimes is is felt here in this room and you you have handled uh the yourself uh in very professional manner and and uh we admire you greatly and I just want to thank you [applause] thank you thank you very much Brad. when I when I when I took up on chair, my hair and beer was all black. [laughter] So, now I got some gray hair. So, but no, but seriously, I uh I thank you all so much. It was it was definitely fun and I look forward to our new chair and co-chair here to keep progressing and making the board just uh uh progress even higher. So, I guess if there's nothing else, is there anything else need to be stated for the evening? And also just, you know, definitely thank again when I say staff, we do include uh Sean over there, his staff as well. We know you do a great job and I know you fight for us every day and so we you're not going unnoticed. Hopefully we can get you viral again this year.

You know, he has he has 3.2 million views in counting. I'm just talking with that with that being said, if there's nothing else, uh this meeting is ajourned.