Town Council - Regular Meeting

Yes.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. We're going to jump right in here. Discussion and action on final approval of those amendments will count in town charter and approval of the language breach referendum question to be included on the November 2026 election ballot. I will start with the solicitor on how you bunch these together and the reason for you to do it that way.

Okay. So, you know, this is me, the great job by the charter commission coming up with these proposals that were approved by the council at last Thursday's meeting. And then the question is, is the number of changes that were suggested and then approved, how should that be placed on the ballot in November for the voters? And there's always a question about that. On the one hand, these need to be summarized so that they fit on the ballot. But on the other hand, they need to be descriptive enough so voters know what they're voting on. The next thing is that, of course, there will be a pamphlet for the voters to take a look at that they can take with them when they vote on these things. And I did speak with the Secretary of State along with some other solicitors just to go over what needs to be done here. What I am proposing, and this is just a proposal, is to have 12 questions, which you have before you, which are grouped together by subject matter, which I think are appropriate based on the subject matter that you have. So the question is this, that I think you need to take a look at, before we get to the questions, I just want to say one thing. Sometimes what happens is there are fundamental changes to the structure of government when there are amendments to a home rule charter. And towns will make major changes. They'll get rid of their financial town meeting, for instance, go with a financial town referendum. There's been two communities on the East Bay that have done that in the last 12 years. This is not one of those cases. What you have here from your charter commission essentially is you're retaining the form of government that you have, and that there have been some suggestions to make that form of government more efficient, and in the words of the Charter Commission, more transparent, and perhaps a little bit more user-friendly. That's one of the reasons why I went with these 12 questions. Do you have to do this? No. Can you change the number of questions that you have on the ballot? Yes, you can. Can you change what I have here for language? Absolutely. I only ask that it be done tonight so that we can get this over to the Secretary of State so that it gets onto the ballot on this. A lot of people have actually given me input on this, and I'm very appreciative for the suggestions. Ultimately, it's going to be a vote by you all. And if there needs to be changes, then we got to make the changes. But I can tell you that this structure is, if approved as is, which you don't have to, but this could go on for the secretary of state. It would fit with what they have. So if you have any questions, I'd like to answer them. And if not, we can go question to question.

Thank you. So I think the first thing, we'll get to the question. So is the council comfortable with the structure?

I am.

So one thing, and I've said it before, As we know with the budget system, people will go around on the night of the budget hearing, they'll go down and they'll say, well, I didn't know about this, or I didn't know about that. I have questions about this. I think you're going to have the same thing here. So if you put everything just as it's structured and what the Charter Commission did, People still aren't going to understand it. So I guess what I'm saying is we have to do a lot of advertising for this to get it out so people can get this big package, read it over, try to correspond it with what you wrote up, and I think what you did was a good job. It's got to be condensed, and you condensed it in a good way. I think it's up to the council to try to get this out there before the... November meeting so that people have an idea of what's going on. Because if we don't, and I know some people are going to go into the booth and they're going to say, hmm, what is all this? I don't know anything about this. Because I've seen it before. There was probably 10 or 12 years ago, we had the same thing where there was quite a few audit changes and some other things we did. And like with the bonds, okay? You know, they advertise what the bonds are going to be. And all the papers and everything. So people are aware of what's going on. So I think it behooves this council to make sure we get this out and make sure we know that this can be picked up at the website. Other than that, we're going to have a line out the door because people are going to read it. you know, read this. If they know what it is before, then I say, yeah, I think that's good, you know, or not.

So we vote like that. I guess my first question was, are we, the sense of the council structure is okay? I think it is, yeah. And I know you said you think it's okay.

I just have a question, and I guess I'm directed at Tony. When this goes in to be voted on, is it going to have the summary at the bottom?

No, not on the ballot. Not on the ballot. What will happen is you'll have these questions, but there will also be a booklet that will have an explanation. I'm going to use the memo that you got from the... chart review commission and uh... formulate that into a uh... book was similar to what the secretary of state has for the state questions by the way there are five state questions uh... this year which is not that bad but you'll have your own booklet for that. And that can be taken in with the voter when they go to their voting. That'll have the summary. Correct, yes.

Because my gut feeling from my own experience is I read the summary. I read through what the charter changes, what they want. Then I say, okay, do I understand it the way it's written? Then I read the summary. And if I agree with the summary and I agree with it, I'm good to go. Why is there somewhere there's a summary that the voter can get a hold of?

The summary will be in a booklet, which I believe the town has done previously, but it will not be on the ballot. Just this.

This is beyond the ballot. Did you want to say something?

Oh, yeah. I just I wanted to add on to Gary's point, which I think is a good one. And trying to get people in front of this and familiar with it so that people aren't caught off guard. In addition to the website, we also have now the download, which is a nice opportunity to be able to remind people every time that comes out, we can have a link to it. So they're getting it in their inbox. And then I don't know how many council meetings we have between now and election, maybe six or something. I'm not sure how many that is, seven. And we can do that as an announcement also to remind people. I think we just all, and the mailing and just, and maybe copies. Heather, in the past, have you guys had copies in the clerk's office? Absolutely. Okay. So I think if we come at it from lots of different angles, that's the best we can do.

All right. Great. Okay. So the structure is good. That's my sense. And we start with question one. Is there a motion for question one?

This is on the ballot questions.

Yes. Tony has proposed the 12 connections. Question one. We're going to go one by one and vote.

I think article one is fine. I have a motion for one.

Question one. Go ahead, Tony. Okay, before you vote on it, I'm sorry, and I jumped in as a motion. It should be a second, then I'd like to say something.

I'll second it.

Yeah, a second, go ahead.

I'm sorry, who made the motion?

I did.

Okay, thank you. I seconded it, Heather.

We're on question one, which is Charter Amendment Article 1, Incorporated Powers of the Town, Sections 102 and 103 combined.

So, Heather, do you mind? I've got your memo. I just wanted to mention what you have. Heather's suggestions. on this are in line three, where it says lease of intangible property. Real is already in the charter, but she felt that that would be important so that people would not be confused saying, well, it's just intangible property be approved, but real also. And also in the last line, in that town-owned property must be maintained in compliance with current local and state building codes.

Correct. That language is in my reviewing of what the Charter Commission had proposed, and the Council approved that language at their last meeting. And in this synopsis here for question one, those words were left out. So I just pointed that out that the Council had voted that as written by the Charter Commission. So I don't know if that's important to you or not.

So you're saying on the last sentence, after owned property, it should have, must be maintained in compliance?

That was the language that the guest wanted to prove based on the charter commissions.

Heather, can I ask you a question? I think as I understand it, these summary questions that Tony has batched together are. Summaries of the, so you're not suggesting the entire language, but are you just identifying these as like keywords that are important to the intent? Is that why you're calling those out? Question 1.

Yep. It appears as though the language that the solicitor has used here. Yep. Go to what actually was both. I have it. Yep. And then charter commission. I'm pointing out that those words were left out of this and I understand this is a, but for some reason, my perception on question 1. he basically picked up the whole sentence except for those words that I'm pointing out. And as you move along the questions, you're gonna find that it's vague and more vague. But for some reason, question one, I just been pointing out that it seemed like all the other words were used exactly as voted by the charter proposal when the council voted.

So let's put the word out. Yeah, I'm not going to compare myself to William Shakespeare. But what I say is brevity is the soul of wit. That said, to be specific and to add these words in, I don't think is going to impair the summary and, in fact, is more clear. That's the first issue. I'm okay with it. It's your suggestion to leave it as is? No. No. You want to put must in? I think you can go either way, but I agree with what Heather just said, that that language in there will make it a little more clear.

Okay. Do you want to, Gary?

Yeah, so I'll make my motion to include Can you hold just a second?

Go ahead. Just a technical question from a legal standpoint. Is must and shall synonymous?

yes sounds silly but yes at the same day i think must is actually better here um but they're the same okay and and just to make sure i understand where we're going and gary i know you're about to amend it this way i think but are we just adding real and in front of intangible and then must as opposed to there is no no

You want me to read in a way that the charter review had provided it? And that's what I would say. At the comma, it talks as well include that the sale or lease of real and intangible property be approved by the financial town meeting and that town-owned property must be maintained in compliance with current local and state building codes.

So real and in must. I'll make a motion that we adopt what the clerk just read. I'll second it. One question.

During the discussion.

Okay.

You know, we had, I did get a comment about the fact that even though this is an Article 1, Sections 102 and 103 are a little bit different. Because someone might want to, someone might be in favor of the property being maintained in compliance with current local and state building codes, but be against intangible.

Well, I think, I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah, we are. I just think that, uh,

Let me see. Can you hear me? This is the please do not touch button. Should I touch it? Can you hear me? Anyway, just two points about your previous conversation. As I understand it, what you're doing now is just approving summaries for the ballot that are not verbatim of the actual proposed amendments, number one, right?

But the vote is for the language that will appear on the ballot in November. And that's a summary.

Yeah. A summary. It's not the verbatim language of the actual amendments that you've approved. And that if these are approved by the voters, will take effect. So that as you go forward here, the example that Tony has suggested is that this article, that this question combines two articles.

Two sections.

Two sections of each article. And that's what's going to happen with many of these, with question three, question four, question five. question six, question seven, question eight, question nine, question 10, and others, that each of these questions combines several sections so that the question of approving or rejecting each question will have the effect of approving in some cases, very extensive language that's not in here for each of those so that the dilemma or the voter will face and the thing that you will need to communicate along the lines that Gary described is that it's an up or down vote that affects two or three or four sections in each question. And I think that's what the preamble that Tony was describing to you. This is... you're grouping or bundling sections, which I think in this case makes a lot of sense because, makes quite a bit of sense because the charter commission has provided you some quite detailed, he said, we're not changing the form of government, we're changing some detail procedures in various documents. Some of these, the way he's tried to group them, I see it fit together so that if we had 25 questions that weren't grouped, we would have a situation where voters might approve or reject things that are intended to work together. And that if they didn't, if some things with regard to the definitions of funds and so forth pass, but other parts of those sections didn't pass, you might not have, might not achieve the goals they're proposing. So in any case, all that I had mentioned to Tony was that this first one section, combining section 102 and 103, one section is powers of the town, and the other is town property, two separate sections. Conventionally, traditionally, by my recollection, we have always had separate questions on the ballot for each section of the ballot. charter we proposed to change. We're not doing that this time, but I think there's good reason to follow Tony's approach. So that's a little complicated, but I think the general point as you go through this, Most of these combine several sections into one question. And that question will get an up or down vote that will affect all those sections. That's all I'm saying. Later on, I'll have another, I would like to have a comment about the public information aspect of this, but that can wait. Thank you. Any other discussion?

I have a motion. I have a second for our question. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Thank you.

Question 2. I'll make a motion to approve section 2. So I can do it.

I'm not seeing any all in favor.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Thank you.

Question 3 is that you want to remember article . Section 301, 306. Do I have a motion? I'm wishing to have a second a second that we are in discussion. Anything on this one, folks? Not seeing any all in favor. Aye. Opposed? Thank you. Question four.

I'll make a motion to approve that is written.

We are in discussion any discussion on this one? I opposed. Thank you. Town Council this one's for the motion to approve the discussion. Do I see anyone that would like to speak on this one? I'm sorry, I did see a hand. Go right up, sir. And while it opens up there, this is 405 R.A. 413 to be meant to make radical corrections, include requirements for the call-in at a special council meeting, and electronic notifications of meetings to council members and set forth additional duties. Also regarding codifying ordinance, conduct of audits and oversight of town officials, departments, agencies, and financial statements reviewed and reported. Go ahead, sir.

My name is Vincent Kennedy. I'm a resident at Big Drum Road. I don't have a particular question about this particular question, more a broad question of during the last town council meeting, many of the articles were approved as presented. Some, including I think one of these sections was modified or amended, if you will, during the course of the town council meeting, the last. My question is, at what point will electors of the town have the opportunity to read the amended language?

Yeah, so are you talking about the big thick one that you guys did last meeting? All this, right?

Yes, and some of them were amended. Some of them. I believe that's the case.

It was more.

There was quite a few that were amended.

Quite a few that was amended.

Do we have?

I have not done my draft minutes yet. That'll be done Saturday and provided to the council for their meeting next week.

Also, if I may, part and parcel with this, and it's something that's been a practice in this town and other towns, is to have a booklet, which is going to go over the questions and also will include the language that is to be amended in the charter. And that would be the language that was amended by the town council. So to me, this is important. That booklet is very important, too.

And that would be available at some point immediately prior to the...

Yes, and I'm at a slight disadvantage, but I think the practice of the town was to mail the booklet out to... That would be mailed out to the voters so that they can see what it is. That is really the important document. It shows what the language is as an explanation. people will take that with them when they go in to vote, most of them.

Just to underline, I think Larry's point is in bundling these, I might have a particularly strong feeling one way or another about, just to pick an example, 302, and say, I don't like 302, but I like the others. But that means question four, So a negative view on one section leads to some comprehensive or the possibility of some comprehensive impact. Thank you for your time.

very real yes so so just to be clear what was voted on last meeting is this big thick with all the amendments more than two you said um and that's going to go on a pamphlet or a slash booklet do you recall how long it takes to get that out before election to someone's mailbox

I do not. I actually had a question that I'll be asking this listener from the charter review after this as to the timeline and getting those edits and everything together for the booklet. So I haven't had a chance to speak yet. That question came in today.

So maybe this is actually speaking.

Sure. So, I mean, it looks like you can go on. So it looks like to me that a lot of work was done with this. Well, the amendments is not so much work, right? I mean, we're just amending what you guys voted on, right?

There was a lot of amendments from the meeting that will be reflected in the minutes that you guys will draft for next week's council meeting to approve. That will be used to go as the edits to the booklet that the solicitor, myself, and the charter review will work on.

So just for background, having been on a couple of charter review commissions, an example I gave, unlike, say, the budget committee report, which is required by our charter to be mailed to everyone, there's nothing in the charter that says that the charter review commission has to do anything more then make recommendations to the council. But the practice has evolved and I don't recall for sure how consistently it's taken place from charter commission to charter commission, What we've been doing on and off for at least 20 years, maybe every charter review proposal is for the Charter Review Commission. And I don't know what their plans are, but usually we provide in the budget for a certain amount of money. So there is a Charter Review Commission member who might want to address this. But for instance, in 2022, It involves some work. It's a somewhat complicated document to show the The, it includes like the budget committee report, a letter from the commission. And then for each question, it's gonna be a little complicated with this, is the languages that exist, shows the changes that are proposed, and then has a note of explanation. It's not so different from the report that's provided to you already. So they've got to start on it, but there is a practice But it takes a while. It's going to take a while. But the practice has been to mail it to every voter so that there is a booklet that looks a lot like the ones we get from the state about state referenda. That's what it's modeled at. That's what I've worked on this 20 years ago. I just took that model and used it for our local referendum. So it's going to take a while, though, but it's a good it's a way to it's a good way. Sometimes they'll go right in the trash at the post office, but there will be a document that's comprehensive that explains the before and after and the reasons for all these. There should be, if there's money in the till and the charter commission is ready to do it.

Leslie Fox. So the Charter Commission requested a budget that will take care of the mailing. We've already planned for that. And that is available to us when we need it. This, what we voted on last Town Council voted on last week was prepared copying that booklet, the format. So it's not 100%, but it's not a huge step from what we've already done to produce the booklet. So we're happy to help us however is needed. It's already, it's planned. So no more discussion on it.

Thank you I have a motion and a second on question 5. Any further discussion. All there and I know who. Seeing and thank you. Those or what about us. 6 I have a motion for questions 6 motions to approve. Could I make a clerk's note here, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I don't question the motion first. I have a motion. I will second question six, which includes 501, 502, 503, 504. And we are in discussion.

So I think it's important that the clerk does have the ability to cut in here because she's the one that really. It's really interesting. Yeah.

Okay. Sorry. I just want to point out because I apologize. I didn't notice it when you write your council meeting the other evening. But I think it's just either I'm misinterpreting what they're saying, or somebody copying and pasting the fact that at It appears as though in section 502C, 502C, 502CA has all about the electronic version and the mailing and the choice of paper ballot. And Leslie, you can correct the if you need to, but I think if you jump to section 504, very end, just before the reason I'm understanding that is that that's a duplication of what's already stated in the beginning section. But if it's not, it does not talk about the electronic version at all that's being proposed.

So you're on.

I'm on I'm initially I moved to initially on page 16 talks about a all the about the receipt of electronic versus paper versus all that. And then if you go to page 19, after the last remaining underlining and then crossing out, it says copies of budget committee report as it is to be presented to the financial town meeting shall be mailed to the electors of the town and posted on the website of the town no later than 10 days prior to the date of said meeting. And I'm not sure if that's really, well, this isn't really for your decision and the synopsis of the solicitor's night, but I just want to point it out that either It's missing the electronic part if it really needs to be there, or should that not even be there at all? Because it's captured in part C2A.

C2A, I see C2A, which is all underlined.

It's all underlined. Email delivery, it's different. Well, that's what I'm asking, because where it says copies of the budget report is this to be presented to the finance, be mailed to the electors and posted on the website. which is what we already do. But should that say something about the electronic version or?

The 50C2A says, have not opted for that budget committee report be presented at the financial time meeting shall be mailed to the electors who have not opted for email delivery, no less than 10 days.

It's just referencing that the mailing will go out in

Yes. Maybe he'll call you, Vin.

Yes.

Vin had his hand up.

I think Heather's term says that this later will require the mailing even to those who will lock it up. So I think the suggested language that Patrick had in his copies in a shopping mail to the electors not have it opted out so that there's not a duplication of the dispatcher's delivery.

So if I may, the other approach would be, given that these are approved, if I'm following this, 512 C2A or whatever it is, which is the new language, will be voted on at the same time as 504, which is the old language. You can actually just delete the- Correct. This is a whole new section that says distribution of the budget report. It includes the mailing plus the electronics. This is the final sentence. If you are a further member, you can just delete the final sentence in section 504.

That's what I'm interpreting it as, Larry, and that's either just remove that after the lines. That's why I didn't know if it was maybe just a human mistake to remove it, or it should actually say the same thing that 502CA says. But I was leading towards, but that's not up to me. That's up to the council, and they've already voted it.

These are all together by vote.

Correct. I thought it was an error that it remained there after I was sentenced to just have the ability to strike that last sentence.

I do think that makes the most sense.

So I will why don't we why don't we leave the solicitors is fine, but that is. Well, I think what we're talking about is amendment to what we already voted on on Thursday.

If I may, and by the way, you do have the ability to alter it even now. Okay. So I think your first motion has to be to eliminate that final sentence. But that's in a section.

I made a motion on section...

Number six.

Yeah, we're still on six.

But it encompasses that.

Okay. All right. All right. Okay. One, two, three. So that could be a separate motion. And then I have a suggestion for an amendment to question six.

I'll withdraw my motion. I think I seconded. Let's withdraw that.

So I would suggest in section 504. We delete the last section that starts with copies of the budget committee report and ends with 10 days prior to the date of said meeting. So, sir, you want that as a separate motion?

I'm going to second that motion. Any further discussion on that? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? None.

Now, unfortunately, I'm going to make a suggestion here now, but, you know, I'm throwing it out. So if somebody has better language, let me know. But to follow on that, in the last line, the last phrase actually in question six, public hearing notice by paper or electronic means and timeline.

I'll make a motion to include what the solicitor just said.

These are the meeting. Heather, you want to read that then? What Gary just said?

For the solicitors. To add where it says, comma, budget committee procedures, comma, reporting, comma, financial forecasting, public hearing notice by paper and electronic means and timeline.

How's that sound?

Well, if we do this, either paper, I'm going to ask, by paper or mail, should it be paper or mail, by mail or electronic means?

Probably mail or electronic means, because mail is paper. So you're going to strike paper?

So, and if you just say paper, it doesn't guarantee that you're putting them in the mail to anybody. It could be they have to- By mail.

By mail. Electronic. Better. Mail.

Strike paper.

So mail. Okay. Electronic means.

Can you read it again for us, Harris?

Budget committee procedures, reporting, financial forecasting, public hearing notice with mail and electronic means and timeline.

That's-

Is it by mail? By mail.

By mail.

Okay. I was going to say that doesn't sound right. You don't have to read that again. By mail in there. By mail. Does that sound good? Yes. Gary. I'm going to second that one. In discussion, any further questions on that one? All in favor? Aye. Aye. That takes care of question six. We are on to check. on funds do i have a motion motion the second motion this is 505 by 10 5 11 12. any discussion on this one anything heather not seeing any more thank you question eight Now officials, 601, 605, and 611 to have a motion.

Motion to approve, second.

In discussion, anyone would like to discuss this? Trio. Not seeing any. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Question nine. Forwarding and commission 7376, 707, and 710 to have a motion. To to approve. And discussion and one of the school. I am both. I shouldn't have. Town to the heart of the group is not a one to nine three. And it's actually.

Motion to approve. I will second it. Okay, just one quick question. Motion and a second. And I have actually this question that was raised by Heather. I think it's a legitimate one. I put in establish the information technology department and it's already in place. I used the word establish because I didn't know what else to do here because it's not... in the charter. So essentially you're establishing it here. I don't know if there's a more descriptive word.

My thought on that, to be consistent with what I went back and looked at, is the language previously used, and maybe I'm on the wrong page here, but when it recognizes the deputy tax assessor, you had used the language recognize the position of, which is not in the charter already, as well as with the historic advisory committee, you had also used the recognize word. So I thought because it was already in place, if it's appropriate to use the word recognize. Or something else.

By Joe Heather. I just got to skip on that thing. Can you change establish to recognize?

I can.

Motion to... I want to withdraw my motion. I'm going to... A man. The second from the last second group at a new section to recognize the information information technology department through the duties of the CIO.

I'll send it that way. The discussion. I'm seeing any all there I am. But you're 11 all occasions and they can see. Section 1006. I have a motion. Very good, we have a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? I'm saying aye, thank you. Last question, 12 transitional provisions. This includes 11 of T and 11 of six. I have a motion. Motion. I'll second that motion. We've heard the discussion on this one. All in favor? Aye. The vote, I think. Thank you for everyone's talk on that, especially the last meeting. Well, we also have an action on a little council meeting. Carol, are you still with us? For rural innovation and heritage, R-I-H-P-H-C. This is for the community center. Well, they already have a little there. They've been working very hard over there with the building. And we're just starting now to collaborate with them. And they need in town to sign off on this when it comes. Um, important to get back there in the summer. So I'll make a motion to find this document. Uh, is a letter of mediation.

I can discussion just a question. What kind of strings are attached to this. I'm going to only pay the bill that these windows so that there are any kind of thing and that's good.

No. It's not like the town landing. Okay, yeah. Okay.

All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? I don't see any. All right. I will accept the motion to adjourn.

Second? Favor? Aye. Thank you.