Board of Appearance - Regular Meeting

all right well i'd like to go ahead and call this meeting to order i've got an introductory statement that i need to read here first welcome to the town of lexington's board of appearance meeting this board is comprised of volunteer residents and or registered architects or building professionals we are appointed by town council and we serve without pay We are a legal board operating under the Comprehensive Planning Act of the state of South Carolina. Although this meeting may not seem as formal as a hearing in court, all statements must still be true, factual, and not made in a manner to mislead us. The Board of Appearance meetings are broadcast live on the town's YouTube channel and minutes are taken and maintained as permanent records with the town. Under the Freedom of Information Act compliance, public notification of this meeting was published, posted, and mailed in compliance with the FOIA and the Town of Lexington requirements. Please understand that we must make our decisions within the parameters of state law. Should we make a decision that you believe is incorrect, you may appeal our decision to the Circuit Court within certain time limits provided by state law. In case that such an appeal is made, it is important that the circuit court know who testified at this meeting. So please sign the sign-in sheet, identify yourself, and speak into the microphone. Okay. With that, I'll... go to our first i guess we don't have any changes to the agenda all right all right so we'll go to the first item which would be the approval of the uh last meeting we had which was uh september 9th 2025 um i'd like to make a motion are there any changes i guess All right, so I guess I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as submitted. Is there a second? I second it. All right. All in favor, raise your hand. All right. Carried unanimously. And so then we'll go to our first item of new business, and that's the... ALA South Carolina Holdings submitted the proposal to construct a gym and sports complex expansion. And so if you can bring that forward, Jessica.

All right. Good evening. American Leadership Academy is proposing a gymnasium, classroom, and sports complex expansion at 105 and 109 Innovation Place. The proposal includes construction of an approximately 34,227 square foot building containing a full-size gymnasium and additional classrooms, a stadium field with track and bleachers, and approximately 11,196 linear feet of on-site stacking lanes. The proposed design places a majority of the new stacking lanes within the front yard between the lower school building and South Lake Drive. Section P1 of the Architectural Appearance Manual states that to minimize visual impact, parking should be located within the side or rear yards of a building and effectively screened with landscaping. Section P10 further states that to minimize visual impact, drive-through and stacking lanes should be located to the side or rear of the buildings. The applicant has attempted to minimize the visual impacts of the proposed stacking lanes by providing a substantial landscape buffer consisting of trees and shrubs within the setback. In addition, the stacking lanes have been designed below the elevation of South Lake Drive to further reduce their visibility from the roadway. The proposed gymnasium building is constructed primarily of metal. Section SG-10 of the Architectural and Appearance Manual states that where buildings face a public street or other public areas, appropriate exterior materials should include brick, stone, stucco, wood, cementous siding, wood shingles, or other materials that provide the appearance of those finishes. Section SG-1 further states that new development should be designed to be compatible with surrounding development and should not define the character or style of the development. Section SG-5 encourages coordination of the architectural detail and character within an overall design concept for all building sides and components. The existing school buildings on the campus are constructed primarily of brick and cemented siding. Please note that the landscape plan has not yet been reviewed by the town landscape reviewer for compliance with the landscape ordinance. The comments contained in this report are limited to the architectural considerations identified in the architectural appearance manual. The board should consider whether the proposed building materials and architectural design are compatible with the existing campus and surrounding development in accordance with the architectural appearance manual. And since I wrote this report, I do have some comments from the landscape reviewer if you're interested in those. Just in case.

Yes. Yeah, please.

So he stated that... The screening along South Lake Drive does appear that it would be sufficient screening from the road. Furthermore, even though flowering cherry is not considered a large canopy tree, it is an acceptable species due to the proximity to the overhead power lines next to the road. he said that the parking lot by the football field the trees must be large canopy trees eastern redbud is not considered a large canopy tree also no parking space can be more than 70 feet from the base of the large canopy tree and that the submitted plan does not appear to be the scale in regards to the football field submittal but those were his only comments all right thank you

Is there anybody, representative of the owner, that would like to speak at this time? Come forward and then announce your name.

Hi, my name's Jim Way. It's Squelch Development. We're the developer for TLA South Carolina Holdings. With me is Bill Tate. He's an architect on this project. I just wanted to start off with we are working on behalf of the school trying to get them some additional space needed and we have budget conscious at every step of the way so we're looking to we looked at good options something that differentiated this building from the existing buildings we feel that this is more of a supplementary building as opposed to the two buildings that are currently on It's not, the building is not located right on

Yeah, and your architect may be able to help on this. Some of these, looking at some of the renderings and the elevations, I'm trying to discern, is there any brick on this? It's difficult to tell which wood materials, what are metal panels versus...

It's all metal panels.

It's all metal panels.

There's difference.

vertical panels. That's the vertical panel.

And then on the sides and the rest of the building is a vertical metal, an architecture metal.

Gotcha.

Neil, you label them as front and

Yeah.

That's the front entry. Okay, and on the site plan, it's facing what?

Is it facing South Lake Drive?

No, what he just showed you is facing south.

South Lake?

Yeah. Thank you.

Oh, the front is actually south in plan?

Correct.

That would be helpful. Yeah, because I'm struggling with that.

I think what you see from Southlake is this.

Yes, sir. So that's the landing.

Here's Southlake. Okay, it's up there.

That's right.

Okay, so that's the front.

It is. And that's this room right here.

What do you see from Southlake?

Is this the view you see from Southlake?

That would be the view from Southlake.

The view from South Lake, right? Yeah. All right, so this is basically, I mean, there's a couple of doors on this elevation.

Yeah, because that's the existing high school you see. Right, yes. All right. So the idea was to make these the colors and textures match, but this is all...

This is all what?

All metal.

All metal, right.

The existing structure is a tilled building, cementitious painted with some brick. Brick.

Yeah.

But there's no...

The brick is basically along the base and then that two stories.

Are you okay? I think they're concerned they can't hear.

So we need to make sure we... Oh, yeah. Sorry, being a little selfish here. I want to know what's... so so that is from south lake so that's sheet number 80904 is that that correct for the record 80904 that is the view from south lake so i could discuss the intent with the match uh colors to the existing building using metal metal architectural panels

As Mr. Way stated, we're trying to be budget conscious. This is a very different building than what's out there, the state sports facility, primarily. So it's not trying to be confused between a K-5 or a 6-12 building. It's something different. It's a match.

In color, it's got to be pretty different.

All right.

I'll go ahead and voice a few concerns. This view from South Lake Drive, there's a little bit of break in the fenestration with a couple of three canopies and three doors, but there's the view that faces South Lake really has no windows on it at all.

My biggest concern, kind of going with that from Southlake, is like there's no depth. It's just like one big flat wall, whereas like your orientation facing the other building, that's where you've got like your differing heights, your differing depth of the building and the differing material. Is there the possibility to orient the building the other direction or...

Yeah.

I think the challenge is that the most attractive elevation is AD 903, which has nice vertical metal panels, the nice facade that has variation to it. And from a campus design standpoint, it's probably the appropriate thing. But it faces inward to the campus where all the students and people are. The hard part for us is we won't go into campus to see it. So we're trying to figure out what it looks like. And we have a view that looks a little bit like the back of the building. So I wonder if the rear is actually pretty well. And if I can just speak briefly.

You sure can.

If you like that elevation as we do, we're happy to incorporate some of those elements around the other facades.

That's not a problem. I think if you were to look at the strength of what's AB 903, which is called the rear, the strength is a continuous canopy. versus small canopies. The strength is the way the panels work. I mean, I think they did a nice job with all the materials. I'm not sure it had to be, just because right now materials are allowed, but I'm trying to make sure we're careful with the building and the back part of the campus. We can discuss that in the absence of brick separately. But I'm, first of all, I like the AD-903, and I saw AD-904, and that's what I'm always going to see, though. And that seems disappointing.

And I will note too, I was confused as to what would be facing Southlake as well when I looked at this. I left it out of our report because of that, but the ordinance or the manual does state that rear of the building, if it is seen from a public view, must appear as if it is not the rear of the building.

Again, to their challenge is making it work inside a campus. This is unique.

Right, it has a couple different.

You can try it from the inside, but it also needs, for our standpoint, it's the tail piece. You can try it as you drive back from North Lake, right?

Yeah.

Even the way the parapet is done on the gymnasium piece, it opens up to the, I mean, it turns the corners of the brick, and then it feels like it went back to the building.

Back to the building, yeah. i mean what are your thoughts on how can you make the what we're calling the front of the building look like the front of the building rather than the back of the building sure i think we're open to making most of the building have this appearance aesthetically we can add more canopies we can change All right. So I think that's the step in the right direction. If there's any possibility of getting any other fenestration or breaks in those walls, whether a window here or there.

Would you be open to maybe like a facade window or a bow window?

Yeah, and we've done that on some past projects here for the same purpose. Yeah. Right.

I understand. Right. All right.

Yeah, I mean, one of the parts of the manual does state, you know, having breaks in the elevations and I think having some form of whether it's overhangs or canopies and obviously windows, doors that help break up this elevation is what's going to be needed on that view that you can see from South Lake Drive.

Are you okay with the stuff that we have in the...

You're talking about that it just stops, and it's basically the thickness of the wall where it stops. I'm trying to make sure I'm sure. Yeah, now that helps.

Is it this way? Put on now. How about that?

Yes, if we do have some breaks here, we have some higher pieces.

It's this one right here, right?

Yeah, actually, this is going to, our newer elevation, this comes across, so it's all one solid piece, so you don't see that break. Okay, that helps. And this could be more, these higher and lower areas could be more like, yeah, sort of take on this more high-tech penetration. And these windows, the faux windows I was talking about, we could add those faux windows that match the existing across here to make it look more symmetrical and more seamless. That's good steps.

So I do think that, Neil, the way that you turned the metal panels on the corner on 903, If you could turn the corner on 904, where I see the metal panels and the lower piece, you did that really well on 903, and I like the way the metal panels turn the corner. Good point. And if you did that on 904 versus having the vertical panel, it immediately becomes the metal building panels. As you study how materials touch each other, I think you did it really well on 903. I would take that kind of energy to what the city is going to see or town is going to see on 904.

I think I'm picking up where you're going. Okay. And I agree with you. I think what I'm calling 903 is the strongest piece of the building. Okay.

That's the length of that It does help it at all nice doors on the element help Yeah, she's right here if we can replicate like the size and length of that the

So to Jessica's point in her summary, SG5 and SG1, I think, talk about materials that are on the campus. And I think what I'm thinking is this is okay material-wise if they're handled better. That it's not matching the materials that are on the campus. It's a different kind of building. And we'll make sure we're thinking that way. Yeah.

Is this like a wood look?

Almost like you see like in the 1930s, 20s, 30s type look. So it's not completely flat.

It has some variations to it.

OK. All right.

Well. Yeah, I'm in agreement that the materials are fine because the coloring, like, I feel like it integrates well into the campus. So I think, as we mentioned, just kind of make AD 904 look more like AD 903, and I think you're heading in the right direction. Assuming that we need to address the stacking, I'm fine with the way that they've got it stacked with the landscaping and how it sits down. So I think that's perfectly fine with the bar stacking.

I agree with that. I think there aren't good options. I think it's probably a good solution. Landscaping is a nice way to solve it. There's reference to a wall or a fence or something on the site. Is there a fence? The site section shows one, and I wasn't sure what it meant.

It just says proposed fences.

I wonder what that was. Is that a...

This is... Good. Yeah. So...

Yeah, so I mean it's moving it to include the new lanes at the same time.

So that's not part of your project? No, it is.

The fence is going to have to be moved to include the new lanes, but it will be at the same time that the new lanes are out there.

Is that the black fencing? Is it black chain link or what type of fencing?

Currently it's black chain link fencing. If it's, if it's chain link, I would like to think the landscape would make that go away.

Hide it.

Yeah. So it would be an encouraging word to the landscape submission is it would be nice to make that, we'd like not to see chain link fence along South Lake Row. Correct.

So I think this is now and then it's moving out to here.

Okay. Any other thoughts or comments here?

So I'll make a motion that we turn down the submission and ask them to resubmit per the comments and good discussion that we had.

Yeah. Okay. I'll second that. All in favor of that motion? Raise your hand. All right.

For staff clarification, just because I know these guys want to get moving on site work, if you all are okay with the stacking lanes portion of the submittal, are you okay with them submitting for a land disturbance permit with the stacking lanes as is, or would you like for them to come back to you next month and include that in their parcel and hold on any land disturbance permitting.

I'm okay with land disturbance in second lanes.

Okay, thank you. That helps. So we're just bringing the building component back. Perfect. Thank you.

Thank you.

That was new business one. New business number two is the Hebrews ADA, basically the Seven Brew Coffee Shop. So Jessica, if you can...

Do you want to revise your motion before we move on to include that addition, that they're okay to move forward, that you're approving the stacking lanes but bringing the building component back?

I don't know. Change our motion there?

Yeah, if Wayne is okay with just revising that motion and you accept it.

Okay. I agree. Perfect. Thank you.

All right. So new business item number two.

Thank you.

Thank you. Perfect. Thank you.

Thanks.

Hebrews ADA LLC has submitted a proposal to construct a new drive-thru coffee shop at 5237 Sunset Blvd. The proposed building is approximately 910 square feet and includes a dual-lane drive-thru with aluminum awnings. No interior customer seating is proposed and it is unclear from the plans whether outdoor seating will be provided. The property is located at one of the busiest intersections along the Sunset Boulevard corridor. Because of its visibility, the proposed development will have a significant impact on the appearance of the corridor and should be evaluated accordingly. No lighting plan was included with the application. Therefore, staff is unable to determine whether the proposed site or building lighting complies with the architectural appearance manual. Section SG-14 states that the outdoor lighting should be consistent with the design style of the project and compatible with surrounding properties. The town sign ordinance and the architectural appearance manual also prohibit neon lighting. Additional information regarding the proposed lighting may be necessary for the board to evaluate the compliance with these standards. Section SG-17 of the Architectural Appearance Manual states that the exterior garbage enclosure should be constructed of the same materials as the primary building and that the enclosure walls should be of sufficient height to completely screen the dumpsters. The proposed dumpster enclosure is constructed of brick materials that are compatible with the primary structure. However, the submitted plans indicate a galvanized steel gate frame with TREX composite wood planks. The town's landscape ordinance requires dumpster enclosure gates to be constructed of black steel. The board should consider whether the proposed gate design is compatible with the architectural appearance manual and complies with the applicable requirements of landscape ordinance. Section P1 of the Architectural Appearance Manual encourages parking to be located within the side or rear yards of a building to minimize its visual impacts and to be effectively screened with landscaping. The proposed site design places parking in front of the building along Sunset Boulevard. The applicant has attempted to mitigate the visual impacts of the parking area through additional landscaping along the Sunset Boulevard and Mineral Springs Road frontages. The board should consider whether the proposed landscaping adequately minimizes the visual impacts of the parking area in accordance with the intent of the architectural appearance manual. The proposed building includes a royal blue roof. Section SG-9 of the architectural appearance manual encourages the use of richer or deeper hues only as accents on doors, window trim, or other small architectural details and discourages the use of bright high intensity or neon colors. SG8 further states that building color schemes should tie building elements together, relate separate buildings within the same development, and utilize warm muted colors with low reflectivity so that a building's color does not compete for attention with neighboring developments. Given the prominence of this location, the Board should consider whether the proposed roof color is compatible with the surrounding development and consistent with the intent of the Architectural Appearance Manual. signage will be reviewed under a separate sign permit application but remains subject to architectural appearance manual the sub the submitted plans depict lcd signs the town sign ordinance prohibits digital display signs please note that the landscape plan has not yet been reviewed by the town's landscape reviewer for compliance the comments contained in the report are limited to the architectural considerations identified in the architectural appearance manual The board should consider whether the proposed development is consistent with the intent of the architectural and appearance manual. And since that time, I did have them look at it and give me some quick notes, the landscape reviewer. At least I thought I did. Bear with me, I apologize. And he did have some notes about the total perimeter of the property. They did not calculate the entire perimeter to include enough canopy trees or perimeter trees and that the buffer along Mineral Springs should run the entire property and not stop short after the parking areas that it needs to complete down Mineral Springs. So that was just some quick notes that he had.

Do you know why there's gaps in the landscaping along Mineral Springs Road? There's two areas that are just quite open.

I do not.

Okay. Is there anybody who is owner's representative who would like to come and speak?

I'm here for the architect.

Okay. I'm sorry, your name?

Allen Rosewood.

Allen, okay.

You're referring to the gaps. One is right kind of on the side of the building, and one is further back, kind of where the lanes enter.

Okay, I was just curious because I saw gaps there.

There's clearly an easement of some sort. That might be where the water meter and the fire hydrant is.

Do y'all have any particular comments you want to talk to us about?

I would just like to... It's got what they call the mushroom top. It's a radius roof. They usually have a separate remote walk-in cooler that's right adjacent to the building. So we've taken some steps to adapt to the zoning codes. We've integrated the walk-in into the building, which kind of makes it more linear towards the back.

buildings like this are a challenge to design when you got something so small you've got a 900 square foot building and that's wrapped with a number of canopies around it that are um unfortunately i believe are are dominating your the design i mean not just because of the color but because of the height of them and the design of the canopies um But the color even brings it further or really makes it very difficult. I guess this must be a corporate color.

Yeah, just to kind of step back on the colors. So 7 Rue's branding, if you will, they have that oily. We're trying to maintain some sort of brand element for Sedinburg. So that's why the flat canopies have been converted into kind of a mansard look. We are open to changing some of those colors. We've certainly done that.

Well, the challenge I've got, I mean, the canopies are, the scale of the canopies are so large because there's, compared to the building, we've got, it appears that we've got almost as much area that the canopies cover as the building itself is. And because they have sloped roof on those canopies, they're even more prominent. And I just was wondering when, you know, Did you make a, I was trying to understand one of the comments you made a minute ago was some of the previous designs, do they have flat canopy versus a slope canopy roofs?

Yeah, they typically do a flat canopy.

Yeah. Because I think it's, the design as it is now is highlighting the blue so much And that it's awkward. And because you've got to have a canopy that's at least 12 feet high, so it sits up pretty high, and then you've got a sloped roof on it, I think it's very difficult to pull that off architecturally. And I don't think it works the way it currently is indicated.

Would you be open to, if we change the canopy colors to more neutral colors, tan or dark gray while maintaining the blue on the gable?

I think that's a reasonable thing to think about because it puts the focus on the building, not the canopy. So your point earlier that the canopies now are dominating the building, that will put the focus and the color on the building, making it more you look at and minimize how much the canopies take away. So I think if you've got a gray or neutral color on the canopies, I think that allows you to preserve some of that corporate color that I guess is important.

I mean what do you think about, even the board here, about not having a sloped roof canopy and so that we're not, it's not so heavy. Right now, I mean, I realize the blue is dominating and even if this was a charcoal or a dark gray or canopy versus the blue, we'd be better off here having a, straight canopy across rather than a sloped canopy yes yes I'm just looking for something that's a little bit lighter because I assume that's going up and then in section it's it's come straight back down and it's flat behind it yes okay because i think i think these canopies are also you know if we can that not be a blue color like that because the blue is also underneath and and that's going to be still very obvious for for pedestrian height level seeing that that blue um underneath there so i think the idea of changing color is a very important but also I'd like to the idea of if you can find a way to lighten up this canopy so it doesn't look as heavy as it is.

I know structurally that would be easier.

Well, you can look at that and see if you end up changing this canopy as we're talking about it, it does become more flat and smaller. I'm not opposed to the canopy at the size of the areas. It currently is. It currently is. But, I mean, it really comes back to what does it look like after you redo the design on it.

It might actually add architecture to have that line go down a little further. We just added canopies to the ALA submission winning war linear piece there. It might actually be nice to have it cover the seating area just because it does provide useful shade and I think the horizontal line might be nice because otherwise the building might become a little bit like a stick of butter. It sticks out there.

And the canopy does serve function for customers as well. There are walk-up customers. They can go out there and see.

It's hot here. I don't have any objection to the canopy length that's discussed. I think making it either flat or even just tilting the pitch down would help. But the primary thing is getting rid of the blue. Leaving the blue on the pitched roof. I have a different detail question for you. Maybe it's more civil. Is it possible to access the dumpster from the other side? The dumpster opening is facing Mineral Springs Road right now. And if it were facing the other way, it would face the customers coming in, but it wouldn't face the public.

I don't know. I mean, it's possible because I know the fire truck has to drive around the building. So the barbershop can drive around the building, but it's going to be...

He can get a cup of coffee while he's going through them. I don't think anything like this.

I mean, they could come back at this point and go around and just basically...

I just... I think we're trying really hard. We got a building that has to be wrapped in asphalt. And then I got this dumpster that is, I forgot, I lost track of the landscape plan, but I think there's a vista in there to see it. There's some shrubs around it. If those shrubs were reversed, then from the street side, I wouldn't know where the dumpster is, which I think would be attractive.

Mm-hmm.

It looks like there's an easement or something hatched on Sunset Boulevard. Is that why the landscape stops? It doesn't turn the corner on Sunset Boulevard? Or is it... It's a pretty big hill there.

There's an easement there, and there are... Okay. Yeah.

I mean, it looks like you could at least wrap to the easement if you can't turn, you know, which is only a tree or two more, but I think the more it turns that corner, that would be an attractive solution.

Mm-hmm. Good point.

I'm not sure. I mean, it's sort of this line, but there's some other line. I mean, it's that back line, but it doesn't do like the setback line. It looks like an easement up there.

and that was that was staff's confusion because it looks like they only did landscaping around their their level of disturbance on the lot um but to be clear the landscape ordinance is going to take into account the entire the lot in its entirety and it appears that um the interpretation of the ordinance for the the buffer against the adjacent 7-11 commercial property was misread. There is a landscape buffer required there as well. And so there's no landscaping shown on there, but there is a 5-foot buffer that is required along that property line as well.

Required to be landscaped?

It is, yes, between the commercial properties.

Okay.

Yes.

So that area that's currently just shown as being sod... would need to be landscaped. That is correct. Correct, okay. Do easements prevent landscaping? I mean, I know you don't.

You cannot build structures in easements. I can verify with our utilities engineer, but we've not had this problem previously. Deming and Energy also has a list of trees that they recommend underneath their power lines. We can provide that if needed.

As soon as that goes to landscape for review, that's not exactly our... I'm concerned if that's gonna be handled in the landscape review, but I think the three things I heard were our concern were the blue color on the canopy, the height, the pitch, and design of the canopy, and then the dumpster access. Is that true?

I think the concern and this is just for site flow I mean this is obviously that's part of their problem to figure out but you know if if the dumpster is flipped that puts them picking up in the middle of their drive through lanes and I think that the the goal here just from the pre development meeting and speaking with the developer they were trying very very hard to keep the stacking lanes on that commercial adjacent property line to avoid having to wrap down sunset and mineral with those stacking lanes.

So I guess then if we have an attractive gate on our dumpster enclosure, that would be okay.

And sufficient landscaping maybe along mineral springs.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Can you define attractive? I thought...

I mean, the ordinance calls for the black steel gates, not tracks, composites, and galvanized metal.

The amount of trash generated by the... this type of business is not a lot. And they would probably only be picking up maybe one day a week. And it would probably be that they could do it in half an hour probably.

Right, so I mean, if you can work it with your site, then have at it. We were just for consideration of that from the conversations staff has previously had with the developer.

Right. All right.

I might circle back to the, sorry, the gable roof. I still think that's a little too much blue and a little too low on that piece too. I don't know if there's a way to work in that corporate blue color in some of the trim. I don't know what the roofing system is. It looks like, like you talked about, this is factory built. I don't know if this is still factory built or you all customized it to not be that way anymore because of our town's requirements. All that said, I don't know if there's a way to work in the corporate color and some of the like siding, like the fascia parts or, you know, in the decorative moldings versus having this whole table thing be blue. I know there's the one other example of the oil base, but I don't know.

That was prior to architecture and appearance.

I tried to look at that and I couldn't figure that out ahead of time.

it really is. It's almost more a cross between that and navy.

Do they ever use the red in the logo as corporate colors for the roofs? Because I feel like that's a little bit more muted than the blue.

I don't believe they have. I think I've actually heard them indicate that they don't want to use red just because it represents other brands. We have done

I don't know. I still like it the other way. That roof is not very it's not as prominent for me and it's not as long. It's I don't know.

That's not a hill I'm going to die on. I just I think it's still very pronounced for the rest of our town. I don't know that that's like

Well maybe the option is just not to even have the blue on it. Is make all the metal roofing the same color whether it's the the same color as the canopy and make it something that complements the The color of the facade, if that was a gray roof, a charcoal roof or whatever, it's a nice contrast to the elevation brick. But I guess your comment or concern is the color, the amount of blue on that metal roof.

Yeah. Yeah.

I almost want to see both to see how this actually looks when it's scaled out in our next submittal.

I think definitely, though, if you leave the pitch on the canopy, the canopy cannot be blue. If you leave the pitch, it needs to be black or some type of different color.

And, you know, we try to make sure we respect the idea of corporate colors, but our manual has to have integrity to it. And if SG-9 clearly says you have to have richer and deeper, it seems like we lose some slippery slope when the next one comes to us. That's right, yeah. Yeah. So I'm a little concerned about not paying attention to what our manual that we wrote adopted says. So I think I would prefer that we not have the blue now that we've talked about that a bit.

I agree. All right. I have a motion here. Or do we have anything else we need to get over?

I make a motion that we table this until they submit changes as discussed in regards to the canopy and then also the landscape design.

And the color.

And the color.

And everything else we talked about.

Yes, the gate. Okay.

I'll second that. All in favor?

Aye.

All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

See you next time.

All right, new business item number three is Jim and Nick's barbecue.

Jim and Nick's BBQ has submitted a proposal to construct a new restaurant with a dual-lane drive-thru at 5101 Sunset Boulevard. The proposed building is approximately 4,700 square feet and includes a dual-lane drive-thru with aluminum awnings. The building is proposed to be constructed of stained wood posts and beams, brick, cement a siding, and form a plank. The proposed building design includes several signs and murals. While signs are reviewed under a separate sign permit application, they remain subject to the architectural appearance manual. The submitted elevations depict four wall signs and three murals. Based on the submitted elevations, the proposal may exceed the amount of signage permitted by the town's sign ordinance. However, no monument sign details were included with the application. Section S1 of the Architectural Appearance Manual encourages buildings to incorporate defined sign areas that respect building scale, architectural features, signage uniformity, and the established streetscape. Section S2 encourages the elimination of visual clutter, while S3 allows retailer brand identification but discourages individual corporate branding colors and backlit signage from dominating the site. The submitted elevations include several murals. The board should note that murals directing attention to a business, commodity, attraction, profession, service, or entertainment conducted on the premise are regulated as signs under the town sign ordinance and will be reviewed through the separate sign permitting process. Murals that do not direct attention to a business or other commercial activity are considered artwork and are subject to review by the Board of Architectural Appearance as part of this application. The proposed design places the drive-through stacking lanes along Sunset Boulevard. Section P10 of the Architectural Appearance Manual states that to minimize visual impact, drive-through and stacking lanes should be located to the side or rear of the buildings. the applicant has attempted to minimize the visual impact of the proposed stacking lanes by providing a substantial landscape buffer along sunset boulevard in addition the site slopes downward from sunset boulevard resulting in the stacking lanes being located below the roadway elevation the board should consider whether these design elements adequately minimize the visual impacts of the stacking lanes in accordance with the intent of the architectural appearance manual Please note that the landscape plan has not yet been reviewed by the town's landscape reviewer for compliance with the landscape ordinance. The comments contained in this report are limited to the architectural considerations identified in the architectural appearance manual. Section SG-17 of the Architectural Appearance Manual states that exterior garbage enclosures should be constructed of the same materials as the primary building and that the enclosure walls should be a sufficient height to completely screen the dumpsters. No details regarding the proposed dumpster enclosure were included with the application. Additional information may be necessary for the Board to determine compliance with this standard. The submitted site plan depicts a transformer that does not appear to be screened from the adjacent public streets. Section SG-15 of the architectural appearance manual states that utility equipment should be enclosed within buildings or screened from public streets and other public areas. The board should consider whether the proposed treatment of the transformer is consistent with the intent of the architectural appearance manual. The board should consider whether the proposed development is consistent with the intent of the architectural appearance manual.

Thank you, Jessica. All right. Anybody from the owner would like to speak?

We did look pretty hard at the design criteria As she did mention on the phone, we talked a little bit about some of the signage on there. We usually just submit all that separately. So what you've seen kind of on the renderings is a full-on T approach where there's signs on all the elevation. We're pretty flexible with that. There's one.

Yeah, I think overall it's a very attractive building. I think for us, we have to decide what's a mural, what's a sign. And like, I think the quote that you incorporated, like that's where it's a barbecue. Like for me, that's not a sign. That's just something that's attractive on the building, but your murals that say Jim and X and stuff are definitely assigned. So I think we've got an, even like the drive through this way, like that's a, It's good directional, but at that point, it also could be classified as a sign.

Let's talk about the drive-thru a little bit. If you don't mind, we can go back to the sign. When we knew where the drive-thru lanes are, we always try to not hide them as best we can. the fact that you have two lanes. There is two lanes on there, but we're not Chick-fil-A and we never will be. So there's never an instance where there's 10,000 cars or whatever. What the two lanes does do is it keeps a lot of cars from being in the way of the parking lot. So as you're thinking about why there's our, having a second lane gets people through there a lot faster too. So as far as the stack up goes. a number of sort of just one drive-thru lane. And what seems to happen is traffic seems to get out into the parking lot. It takes a little bit longer to pull out there. So having a two-way actually makes that a little bit better. At this site, we tried to set the building pretty much

You can see the drive-through even more.

And that's kind of what I was going to say. I think on any other site you maybe would have issues with the drive-thru being facing the road, but here there is such a drastic elevation change that I think my opinion is that the drive-thru is fine on that side because of the elevation change. Agreed.

We also have some nice...

So the wood look is actually a metal panel? It is, yeah.

And because of that, it doesn't mar. Over time, it doesn't look any different. It kind of looks like really nice mahogany.

Yeah. Am I... I mean, you've got what appears from this package is a handsome project, but personally, I'm struggling. The drawings are so small. I'm trying to... Yeah, well, even the floor plans or even the site plan, it's just very difficult. The site plan and the elevation, the renderings, it's... i think they're the it appears that it's got nice character but if i could see it better i would have the confidence to go forward with it and that's kind of where i struggle with it may come off great

I appreciate what you're saying, Larry, but I think I can see enough to feel like we were building the well-detailed on all four elevations. I keep wanting to do this, and it's gonna zoom in, but I can't do that. But I don't think it would cause me to pause. I think the biggest issue left is what's a mural in the building and where the signage is. And I think we're probably all in agreement that murals are good when they talk about things like the barbecue quote that you have. It was a good quote. It doesn't say Jim and Nick's, but just the directional sign is probably too much. So I'm not sure how to clarify that.

In this particular building, I think that would be absolutely fine.

We normally aren't seeking sign approval out of people like this. I understand. Usually it's a separate entity.

It doesn't sound complicated, but I don't know how you want us to approve that.

I mean, if you're fine with the overall building and where the stacking lanes are and that you just want final artwork to be resubmitted to you for approval or if you're comfortable with staff making that determination as long as it is not a sign. As I look at the package, just so that you see where I'm coming from at the staff level, I interpret the pig on the southwest elevation as a mural that's underneath the awning. Is it? Oh, okay, cool.

It's kind of just like a fun little thing.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's bad. I think it's a mural. And then I would say that if the Northwest Elevation sign that's on the smokestack, if they are willing to take the branding off and change it, into something community related, then that would be considered artwork. I agree with Jeremy's interpretation of the drive through this way. I believe that would be a directional sign. And then the rest of the signage could, and I agree with the barbecue quote, would be an artwork. So I think we all were on the same page as what we thought was a sign and what was not. And so if you all are fine with me reviewing everything at the sign permit level, and then maybe bringing the community artwork back to you for final approval. I'm okay with that. I feel comfortable with that as well.

Can I ask real quick, what is the screen detail?

Because it's in shade. Yeah.

And I'll of course let you all decide like with the town, the signs up, but I kind of like the painted sign for Jim and next better than the actual lettering. So maybe if you did that painted and then you could incorporate like a community message on the other tower as a mural or something. But I mean, of course, as long as you're limiting it to the correct number, but my personal opinion is I like the painted Jim and next and then maybe you could do a community message on the other tower.

I don't disagree.

Right.

And just kind of for clarification to kind of how Larry mentioned, where is the dumpsters on the site plan?

That's what I thought was the dumpsters on there. I just wanted to make sure.

We appreciate that.

Are you comfortable with the drawing? Yeah.

Okay. While we're talking about elements, I did mention the transformer. I didn't know if it's the T, the box of T. That's it, on the right.

Okay.

Yeah, that's kind of a tough spot for it. Now, there is quite a bit of green space around it in the transformer size-wise. It wouldn't be tough to screen that really well with plant material. It would be pretty easy to do.

Yeah, I think that could be remedied with some landscaping.

Yeah. Okay.

So I had landscape it around transformer.

I think samples would have made this go easier.

That may have been frowned upon.

Yeah, but you know,

they bring them out to everybody and then they're hot.

So it's really, I've actually done a lot of- At 6.30. Yeah. Sounds great, doesn't it? It's the medium of it over.

We wouldn't even have discussed it. I make a motion we approve subject to the minor comments that we made.

Yeah.

Is there a second? Is that okay being the comments about some small stuff? But staff can solve that, right?

I believe I understand, but just to make sure, we are going to ensure the dumpsters break. We're okay with the drive-through lanes along Sunset Boulevard. Work through the mural situation at a staff level.

He doesn't have to come back to us unless you'd like for it to be at your discretion.

And then screening the transformer with plants.

I second that motion. All in favor?

All right. I know I'm hungry right now. All right. Okay, so that's our last item. So I'd like to make a motion to adjourn the meeting. Is there a second?

Second.

All in favor? All right. We're done.

Well done, man.

Well done, Jessica.

Good job, guys.