City Council - Regular Meeting

good evening and welcome to the regular meeting for the laurent city council today is tuesday july 7 2026 and it's currently 7 25. pursuant to chapter 20 of the act of 2022 this meeting will be hybrid alarm participation both in person at the city council chambers as well as remotely the soon link is available on the agenda This meeting has also been transmitted live through the YouTube Lawrence City Council page, as well as the Facebook Lawrence City Council page. Roll call, Madam Clerk.

Councilor Gonzalez? No one is absent. Councilor Miguel?

Present.

Councilor Malmo? Present. Councilor Infante? Joining us via remote participation. Present. Present. Present. Gotcha. Councilor Reyes? Present. Present. Council Del Rosario is also joining us via remote participation. Present. Council LaPlante.

Present.

Council Vice President Levy. Present. Council President Rodriguez.

Present. Please join me for a moment of silence. Now join me for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

So we have public participation and the rule for public participation are as follows. You're gonna have two and a half minute to speak. At the two minute mark, you're gonna hear a beep or a sound, an indication that you still have 30 seconds. Please refer to this council as a whole. The first name that we have is Richard Russell, Councillor Russell.

Oh, turn the light on. Okay, that's better. All right, I've got to start all over again. It's not in the clock. Good evening, councillors. Rich Russell, 34 Cross Street. My rant tonight, very short and somewhat bitter, reflects a post by me on my Facebook page regarding my observations at the 250th anniversary ceremony at veterans memorial stadium on the evening of july third first a job well done by martha vales and her staff for getting the venue shipshape second the fireworks were well done with the finale being exceptional now to the part that many of you are not going to like to hear the band played for about two hours and i think they played maybe five selections in english hint Dancing Queen by ABBA is not exactly an appropriate song for America's 250th anniversary. I suppose I should be grateful that the Star Spangled Banner was sung in English. I just hope that no one takes my comments as racially motivated as I have a vested interest in America as my family, the Russells, have 350 years of boots on the ground starting in Cambridge in 1636. Thank you for the time to allow me to throw my two pence worth in about last Friday night.

The next person that we have on the list is Teresa Ross. Teresa?

Do you need a translator? I don't know, maybe. Yeah, she's right there.

Good evening. My name is Teresa Rossi.

I'm here because...

Your address? 125 West, Lauren, Massachusetts.

I'm here to talk to you about your relationship.

Good evening, my name is Teresa and I am here to see if you guys can help me because I live in a sector that there is no parking spots. Y estaba pidiendo la cooperación y la ayuda, por favor, si me pueden ayudar, ayudarme más o menos con eso, parqueo del sitio, porque no hay parqueo a ninguna hora, ni de la noche. Yo soy una persona enferma que necesito por lo menos que me ayudaran, un handicap. Que ya vine, hablé con Vivian y con Giovanni, y ellos van a tratar de ayudarme.

And I was wondering, I am a sick person, and I was wondering, I already spoke to Vivian and also Giovanni, and I was wondering if you guys can help me to see if I can find at least one parking spot that is handicapped.

I will appreciate it because if I do sell that house, where am I going to live? I don't have a job. I have worked here for more than 30 years. I have always complied with all the rules, all the laws, the taxes, and everything. I am a citizen who has always fought. And right now I am very happy with everyone who is here, the councilor and the cabinet of all of you. I am going to thank you, please.

So I've been living here for over 30 years, and I would really appreciate it if you guys can help me out with this. I've been complying with the laws and the taxes and everything, and I'm very grateful with the whole council. So if you guys can help me with that, I would really appreciate it. Thank you all so much, and I wish you all health. Thank you.

Thank you. The next person is Mark Loftman.

Good evening, Council President, Mark LaPlante, 29 Durso Ave in Lawrence. We have two upcoming Lawrence Square LSP projects that are coming up this Thursday, July the 9th, at the intersection of Lowell Street and Winter Street. Council President, you'll remember we did this one recently. This is the Private Daniel S. Judge. Judge died in the Korean War. He's one of, I think, either two or three. There weren't many that were killed in action in the Korean War, and he was one of them. And so we are going to be unveiling his new sign with the picture of the QR codes and everything else that we have on these fantastic signs. So that's on the 9th. The following week, July 16th, at the intersection of West Street and Havel Street, we will be rededicating the Patricia Carl Square. Many of you may remember Patricia Carl. She was the founder of the Lawrence Family Development School. She was the founder of Lawrence YouthBuild and was a founding member of the Lawrence Youth Commission. So she has tentacles much more recent than many of us may remember directly. So her rededication is on July 16th at that intersection. So you're all invited, and I would hope to see you then. Thank you.

Thank you. The next person is Anna Levy, Council Levy.

Good evening. My name is Anna Levy, 167 Prospect Street. The reason why I'm here today is because Last Friday, we had a very nice and beautiful 4th of July celebration, so with a lot of firecrackers, so many activities and many other things. But I had a lot of phone calls regarding a flyer that was on the red regarding we need to, like, And the reason why it's been calling the attention because all of the complaints, so many people call regarding the fire, why the city of Lauren was needing money to celebrate the fireworks. This is something that we do every year and practically we never see before people are getting or trying to get money. So the other part of this is that the money that was trying to get collected has to be sent to the LNAP. Who is the LNAP and why the check has to be done in the name of this organization? Why the mayor also never sent a communication regarding this problem that it was practically no money to support the fireworks the 4th of July? And the other thing is why just to... WAIT TO THE FINAL DAY, PRACTICALLY ONE OR TWO DAYS AGO OR SO FOR ANOTHER PERSON DOING A VIDEO ASKING FOR MONEY. SO THOSE ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE SO, OKAY, SO VERY NICE. WE HAVE A VERY NICE OF THE FIRE WORLD, WE HAVE ALSO A VERY FULL AND NICE FOUR OF JULY, BUT I THINK THAT FOR NEXT YEAR WE NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL WITH WHAT WE DO. AND IF THE CITY IS RESPONSIBLE, OR ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DOING THE FIRE WORLD, PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW AND HAS TO BE CLARIFIED WHY IS THIS TEAM BEING DONE. here just to do this for the record and to make sure that we are doing things that is very clear and transparent for the city. Thank you.

Thank you. All these names are going to be submitted for the record. We have an extensive agenda today and we would like to go over a few items as council desired to take it out of order. If there is any that seems very important, please let me know. In the meantime, we are going to go to... Today we're going to prioritize the youth, as we should. So the YDO are going to be the first item that we would like to take out of order. So item out of the ordinance committee, item 273.26, Madam Chair, from the ordinance committee. Item 273.26 is a...

The item 273.26 is the resolution honoring the YDO's 20th anniversary. 273.26 is the resolution honoring the YDO's 20th anniversary. So I'll send it to the full council with favor, recommendation, and I make as a formal motion.

There is a motion in front of us, but please second. Discussion, Councillor? We have the YDO staff and the kids that are representing the organization, if they can come over and tell us why they believe this is important.

Hello, my name is Milan Castillo and one of the reasons why I think that you guys.

Just your address for the record.

Oh, the YDO address is 15 Union Street and one of the reasons why I think that this day should be passed is because I've been going to YDO since I was in third grade and I started off taking classes not knowing anybody and just being very like self-aware and scared and nervous of meeting new people, trying new things, especially taking classes tools and a bunch of kids in eighth grade and I was barely able to look up to them and now I'm able to look at this program and say that I've truly found myself within this program. I'm currently teaching a couple of classes in the summer program and throughout this school year I helped out with a high school prep class for the last term and just I'm not one of the only kids that this program has helped. There's plenty of other kids that have found themselves got help with high school even college and just yeah very amazing program that's done wonders for me and many other youth in Lawrence.

Hi, my name is Maya Maldonado and the YDO address is 15 Union Street. I think this day should be passed because YDO helps many different kids. I've only been there for about maybe three years. I only went as a student for two years and it helped me grow very much. I used to be very anti-social in a way and it helps you grow socially, make new connections and it helps you succeed in life. Not only did it help me raise my grades in middle school, it also helped me get into Abbott Lawrence Academy, which I really thank them for because it's really doing me good in life. And I feel like it helps other kids. And I feel like that's why we should celebrate their 20th anniversary because they've been going for such a long time. So, yeah, thank you.

My name is Laisha Morales, and the Wadio address is 15 Union Street. I believe Wadio should be celebrated for the 20 years of helping the youth, because it helped me as a person in middle school, making my grades better. having like giving me more traits and more skills to like succeed in life and, um, do better in like high school and college. And it's helped like the youth and make me, um, have more like social connections with different people, having more things in common. And that's why I believe YDL should be celebrated.

So, uh, I would like to read or have the clerk reading the resolution. So everybody's aware. So what are we doing today? I like that.

Thank you, Council President. It's definitely my honor to read this resolution into the record. And it reads, whereas the City of Lawrence takes great pride in recognizing organizations that, through valuable enrichment and mentorship, empower the youth of Lawrence to discover and pursue their bright futures, and in doing so, make better our community. And it is that spirit the Lawrence City Council proudly celebrates Youth Development Organization, YDO, on the occasion of their STEM Summer Showcase to recognize and honor their 20 years of dedicated service to youth and families of the City of Lawrence and whereas YDO seeking to help the youth recognize their potential, take pride in their talents and become participating members of the community has done so by providing highly qualified educational activities in STEM and in the arts, developing supportive long-term relationships and providing personalized opportunities for success and whereas YDO has developed noteworthy expertise, facilities, and capacities to support the youth of Lawrence in their exploration and pursuit of STEM education through hands-on project-based learning, as well as by providing wraparound services like academic advising and transportation for students across the city. And whereas YDO's summer programming has been a demonstration of the organization's effectiveness by granting unprecedented control to older youth over the design and delivery of offerings for the younger students and has successfully used peer-to-peer mentoring and relationships to build a welcoming culture of achievement among YDO kids and network of alumni. Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Lawrence City Council, on behalf of the citizens of Lawrence, hereby extend its highest praise, congratulations, and gratitude to the Youth Development Organization on their 20th anniversary and officially declares July 16th, 2026 to forever be known as YDO Day in the City of Lawrence. The Lawrence City Council hereby sets its hand and causes the seal of the City of Lawrence to be affixed this 7th day of July in the year 2026.

Thank you, Madam Clerk. Any councillors have any questions? Anyone else from YDO? All right, Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Councillor LaPlante. Yes. Councillor Del Rosario. Yes. I hear a yes. Councillor Reyes.

Yes.

Councillor Infante. Councilor Infante? Yes, just going back to her. Councilor Marmo? Yes. Councilor Miguel?

Yes.

Councilor Gonzalez is noted as absent. Council Vice President Levy? Yes. Council President Rodriguez?

Yes. Congratulations.

Motion carries unanimously.

So, councilors, we have a few items FROM PUBLIC HEARING THAT WE HAVE SOME MEMBERS OF THE ADMINISTRATION THAT ARE HERE, EMPLOYEES THAT ARE HERE TODAY. SO THE FIRST ONE, THE FIRST ONE IS OUT OF THE PUBLIC HEARING, MADAME CLAIRE, PLEASE READ THE NOTICE FOR ITEM 4826.

Document number 48-26, Public Hearing. Notice is hereby given that the Lawrence City Council will hold a public hearing on Tuesday, July 7th, 2026, at 7 p.m. in the City Council Chambers, 200 Common Street, Lawrence, Mass., pursuant to Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2023, and in accordance with the recently revised City Council Rule 2. This meeting will be hybrid, allowing participation both in person and remotely to accommodate participants with health considerations that prevent them from participating in person. To receive access codes for remote participation, please contact the city clerk at eileen.vernal at cityoflawrence.com or 978-620-3230 or view the meeting on Facebook and YouTube. Be it ordained that the Lawrence City Council of the city of Lawrence, that the revised ordinances of the city of Lawrence are hereby further amended by adding the following subparagraph to section 2.64.265 of the municipal code water sewer billing analyst. A, position established. There is established a position of a water sewer billing analyst in the water department to be appointed by the mayor. B, powers and duties generally. The water and sewer billing analyst shall be responsible for performing a variety of administrative, billing, account management, and customer service functions related to the city's residential and commercial water, sewer, and stormwater accounts. The employee shall ensure the accuracy of the utility billing records SUPPORT THE FULL BILLING CYCLE AND MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE CITY'S METER AND ACCOUNT DATABASES. IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THESE DUTIES, THE WATER AND SEWER BILLING ANALYSTS SHALL, ONE, OVERSEE AND EXECUTE STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE OFFICE RELATED TO WATER, SEWER, AND STORMWATER BILLING. TWO, ASSIST THE BILLING MANAGER IN PROCESSING APPROXIMATELY 12,600 WATER BILLS FOR THE CITY, ENSURING ACCURACY AND TIMELY ISSUANCE. research customer disputes and complaints, calculate potential adjustments, and prepare recommendations for supervisory review. Four, analyze and audit billing operations for each district, ensuring accuracy of meter reads, consumption data, and accounting classifications. Five, assist customers with billing questions, account status, consumption concerns, and payment options. Six, establish new customer accounts and regularly update meter and billing databases including changes in service, ownership, or meter configuration. Seven, train water meter technicians on administrative tasks relating to billing, data entry, and meter reading procedures. Eight, assist with the download, verification, and transfer of meter readings. FROM THE CITY'S AUTOMATED METER READING SYSTEM INTO A FINANCIAL ACCOUNTING SYSTEM. NINE, RUN REPORTS AND COMPLETE END OF MONTH BILLING PROCEDURES INCLUDING RECONCILIATION OF ACCOUNTS AND VERIFICATION OF BILLING EXCEPTIONS. TEN, REVIEW AND RESOLVE BILLING EXCEPTIONS OR ERRORS INCLUDING HIGH VARIANCE BILLS, MISCODED LAND USES OR INCOMPLETE METER READINGS PRIOR TO BILL ISSUANCE. 11. Verify applications and coordinate benefit payments for low-income household water assistance program. 12. Assist with billing and invoicing-related backflow prevention and cross-connection control programs. 13. Maintain accurate, up-to-date accounts, records, and munis in automated meter reading systems. 14. Track and report billing data, identify trends, irregularities, or any Anomalies in water usage or account activity. 15, assist with full bill cycles for storm water fees, ensuring accurate application of rate to residential and commercial accounts. 16, perform other related billing and administrative duties as assigned to support the effective operation of the water and sewer department. subsection d qualifications the minimum qualifications for the position of the water and sewer billing analyst shall be a high school diploma and one to three years of related work experience in accounting bookkeeping or billing OR EQUIVALENT COMBINATION OF EDUCATION, TRAINING, AND EXPERIENCE THAT PROVIDES THE REQUISITE KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS, AND ABILITIES TO PERFORM THE ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS OF THE POSITION. BILINGUAL ABILITY IS PREFERRED. SUB E, SALARY AND BENEFITS. THE POSITION OF THE WATER AND SEWER BILLING ANALYST SHALL BE CLASSIFIED AS NON-UNION GRADE E WITH ANNUAL SALARY RANGE OF 54,600 TO 87,360. PERSONS WISHING TO BE HEARD SHALL BE AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY.

Public hearing is now open. Anybody from the public that wishes to speak? Name my honors for the record, please.

Thank you, Mr. President, members of the council. Bill Collins, not afraid to give my address. One Platt Court. My actual address. I speak in opposition of this creation of a billing analyst position for many reasons. First and foremost, I guess the city and the personnel department have forgotten that every job I've ever seen in my working career, and I'm now retired, was in three different unions, always has a clause that says other duties as assigned. Apparently, they're not in any city job descriptions. This administration has created well over six to eight or even 10 new jobs that are ordinance, like this one is going to be, completely out of thin air that never existed before. Creating jobs for friends and family of the administration. Make work jobs that can be done by people already understaffed. I want to point out also, I'd be remiss if I didn't say as a disabled veteran, that the Veterans Department has been understaffed for decades. And this council knows there is still an item on your agenda that has been tabled for years about the two positions in that office that are our ordinance. You don't have to create a job out of thin air for a friend or a family, but they do have to be a veteran. The assistant director and the deputy director of the veterans department have been unfilled for decades. We now know that there are well over 5,000 veterans in this city. The number came out during the budget hearings this year. 5,000 people cannot be administered to by one veteran director. He is the only one that is a veteran doing the work in that office. He cannot possibly do the outreach required for the hospitals, the nursing homes, the homebound veterans, which there are many. Once again, veterans are at the bottom of the caste system. If this was India, we'd be at the back of the cave, if you know about the caste system. We are the lowest form of the totem pole, just behind the seniors, who also don't have an elderly service board, and we have no veteran advisory board. Both boards also ordinance by the city of Lawrence that remain unfilled for over a decade. So we don't need another position to burden the pension system of the city of Lawrence with a make-work job. Thank you. Thank you.

Anybody else from the public that wishes to speak? All right, public hearing is now closed. And so this was a motion to approve second there's a motion to approve a property second discussion. We have the warrants for commissioner here for the Senate questions. Any questions come to that.

I mean, council president, I would like to hear from the commissioner. Um, if there's anything he may add to advocate, um, for this position and, uh, based on what was said, not that you have to answer to it, but is there anything on the ordinance itself regarding the language of it that you deem that could be adjusted or added, um, that may be necessary now?

hope so good evening william hill water and sewer commissioner for the water sheet uh... so i worked with uh... the mayor's office the attorney and we worked all the on this together i will say that it's needed in the department uh... in the past two years we brought in about three hundred sixty thousand dollars of lost revenue uh... and that was because we were started looking into the water meters uh... how many digits they each read and how it interacts with our munis billing system and census analytics it's very complicated software you need to be involved in this uh... i believe that this is needed for the city to protect the integrity of the financials of the department if we don't if we under bill customers

Overall all the other customers pay for people that are not being built properly so this position in my eyes will pay for itself In the creation of this position Did we use any similar positions from neighboring cities and towns to construct the language for this ordinance I

Yeah, so I use the city of Somerville as an example. So they have a billing analyst position. So we basically replicated what that position was. I have experience with Somerville, so I know exact job description and duties of that position.

Okay, and the salary range, how do we come about in...

So looking back at the Somerville position at that time, the last posting I could find was from 2021. It was $63,672. Could you repeat that? I'm so sorry. $63,672 back in 2021, so I didn't have an updated one, but I'm sure it's obviously higher than that now. I did it. The only other one that I could find with that particular title was a utility billing analyst. It was not in the city, around the surrounding cities, but it was in North Carolina, and that is $52,000 to $84,000. Okay.

What more is there, Council President?

Councilor LaPlan?

Thank you. Through you. About a year or a half or so ago, ISD came down and asked for an enforcement prosecutor position, and one of the arguments was, this position will pay for itself. When the budget came, looked at the numbers, the position did not pay for itself. So you just made the claim this evening, this position will pay for itself. How much do you, can you back that up? How do you back that up, that claim?

So simple, so this year we were projected to bring in about $22.7 million in revenue and we actually brought in $1.1 million higher. That's with me looking over it and the billing supervisor. It's very time consuming to do this, but there is money on the table out there. So if you have 12,600 accounts and you have two people that know how to look into that, I can assure the city council and the residents that this position will definitely pay for itself, and it'll be worth it in the long run.

So thank you. When the FY2028 budget comes out, that's one of the questions that I'll be asking, is how much revenue we're going to be getting, just to make sure. One of my colleagues has put a pin in it. Was that the comment? A pin? I learned that from my colleague from District D. We're going to put a pin, right? in this and we're going to rediscover that pen probably in May of next year. Sure. Thank you. Absolutely.

Councillor Levy? Councillor Weiss, Councillor Levy.

Thank you. This is the only, okay, so you are taking as an example that the city of Somerville. all of this around there, this is the only city that had a person or somebody working on the same title that you are asking for?

No, it could be a different title. So it could be like assistant supervisor or assistant office manager, something like that. It just depends on the title. So with census analytics, we're moving in the future. There's going to be AI coming out involved with it. We get about We're getting every meter read hourly, daily, so there's a lot of data coming in. So we can process up to 52 different reports. We have so much data available to us, but we're not utilizing it to the full capacity. So it's 100% that this position will pay for itself. Just me looking into it a little bit, already paid for four years of the salary, and it'll continue. But as far as the title, the title could be different in different communities. The ones that I found with billing analyst title was just those two. But like I said, it could be assistant supervisor or assistant office manager.

Because the order to use... Council President, so the other example that you give is that was from North Carolina. That is why I, you know, summer beer and then go to the North Carolina. It's very far, practically, away.

Yeah, it's far away, but they also pay less in North Carolina than they do in Massachusetts. I was just kind of showing you the salary is actually the same as what we're proposing. If you move further down south, normally you get less money for the work, so.

Okay, thank you.

You're welcome.

Any other councillors? Hi, Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Councillor Gonzalez is noted as absent. Councillor Miguel?

Yes.

Councillor Marmo? Yes. Councillor Infante?

Yes.

Councillor Reyes? Yes. Councillor Del Rosario? Councilor Del Rosario? I guess he jumped off. I'm going to note him as absent for the vote. Councilor LaPlante?

Yes.

Councilor Vice President? Yes. Councilor President?

Yes. Motion carries.

Thank you, Councilors.

Madam Clerk, please read the notice for items 65 and 26.

Make a motion that we dispense for the preamble.

Second. There is a motion on the table. Properly second discussion. There is none. All those in favor, please say aye. Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Oh, okay. Which is worse. Council LaPlante? Yes. Council Del Rosario?

No, it is absent.

No, it is absent for the vote. Councilor Reyes? Yes. Councilor Infante?

Yes.

Councilor Mamo? Yes. Councilor Miguel? Yes. Councilor Gonzalez is noted as absent. Council Vice President? Yes. Council President?

Yes. Motion carries.

I just want to warn everyone, this is probably the longest legal notice we've ever published, so just bear with me. Purpose of the hearing is to have the testimony, information, and public input concerning the proposed amendment to the revised ordinances of the city of Lawrence to be further amended by adding this current version of the ordinance, substituting section 9.04040. OF THE MUNICIPAL CODE PROHIBITING NOISES WITH THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPHS IN THEIR APPROPRIATE ALPHABETICAL ORDER. SECTION 9.04040, PROHIBITING NOISES. A, STATEMENT OF PUBLIC POLICY. Whereas excessive sound is a serious hazard to the public health and welfare, safety, and quality of life, and whereas a substantial body of science and technology exists by which excessive sound may be substantially abated, and whereas people have a right and should be ensured an environment free from excessive noise and sound that may jeopardize their health, welfare, or safety, or degrade the quality of life, now therefore it is the policy of the city of to prevent excessive sound which may jeopardize the health, welfare, or safety of its citizens or degrade the quality of life. Purpose of this section is to provide standards for the control of noise within the city and prohibit or regulate those acts which most frequently create excessive noise. The general objectives of these standards are to secure the public health, comfort, convenience, and safety of, and to promote the welfare, prosperity, peace, and quiet of the citizens of the city. Definitions. For the purposes of this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings respectively ascribed to them by this section. Construction. Any and all activity necessary or incidental to the erection, assembling, altering, installation, repair, or equipping of buildings, roadways, or utilities, including land clearing, grading, excavating, and filling and paving. Decibel, the unit by which the sound volume is measured. Three, DB, the abbreviated for decibel. DBA, the A weighted sound level in the decibel as measured by a general purpose sound level meter, complying with the provisions of specifications for sound level meters. SI4 1971, American National Standard Institute, properly calibrated and operated on the A waiting network. Sub five demolition, any dismantling, intentional destruction or removal of structure, utility, public or private right-of-way surfaces or similar property emergency, an occurrence or set of circumstances requiring immediate action involving the restoration of public utilities or the restoration of property to a safe condition following a public calamity or the protection of persons or persons from the imminent proposed exposure to danger. emergency work work which must be performed to alleviate an emergency gross vehicle weight rating GVWR the value specified by the manufacturer as a recommended maximum load weight for a single motor vehicle in the case where trailers and tractors are separable the gross combined weight rating which is the value specified by the manufacturer at the recommended maximum load weight for the combined vehicles shall be used motorcycle any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for use of a rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground including any bicycle with a motor or driving wheel attached except a tractor or motor vehicle designed for carrying golf clubs and not for more than four persons IN AN INDUSTRIAL THREE-WHEEL TRUCK OR A MOTOR VEHICLE ON WHICH THE OPERATOR AND PASSENGERS RIDE WITHIN AN ENCLOSED CAB. MOTOR VEHICLES, ANY VEHICLE WHICH IS PROPELLED OR DRAWN ON LAND BY A MOTOR SUCH AS BUT NOT LIMITED TO PASSENGER CAR, TRUCK BUSES, TRUCK TRAILER, SEMI TRAILER, CAMPERS, GO-KART SNOWMOBILES, DUNE BUGGIES OR RACING VEHICLES BUT NOT INCLUDING MOTORCYCLES. NOISE POLLUTION. NOISE POLLUTION SHALL MEAN CONDITIONS CAUSING NOISE SOURCES THAT EITHER A INCREASE NOISE LEVELS 10 DBA OR MORE above the background noise or b is plainly audible beyond property lines or at a distance of 200 feet or c unreasonably interferes with the comfort repose or safety of a reasonable person of normal sensibility pavement breaker any hydraulic or pneumatically powered impact device intended to cut or trench pavement sub base Macadam, gravel, concrete or hard ground person. Any individual, partnership, association, firm, syndicate, company, trust, corporation, department, bureau or agency or other entity recognized by law as a subject of the rights and duties including the city, its agencies, its departments and any persons herein defined operating under the contractual arrangements or agreement with the city. 14, pile driver, an impact device designed to use or with driving of piles, columns, other supports into the soil or other materials by means of impact, vibration, pressure, or other means. Tonal sound. Any sound that is judged by a listener to have a characteristic of a pure tone, whine, hum, or buzz. Exceptions to the provisions shall apply to... the emissions of sound for purposes of altering persons to the existence of an emergency or otherwise specified, specifically permitted by the provisions of this section, the emission of sound for the performance of emergency work, non-commercial public speaking and public assembly of activities conducted on any private property, public space, or public right of way, except those activities otherwise regulated by subsection F. The unamplified human voice except where otherwise prohibited by the provisions of the section, the emission of sound in a performance of a military operation exclusive of travel by individuals to or from a military duty, the emission of sound in the discharge of weapons or fireworks displayed from 7.30 a.m. to 10 p.m. when licensed by the city, the emission of sound in the operation of a snow removal, snow clearance or snow making, EQUIPMENT BY THE CITY, ITS AGENCIES, DEPARTMENTS, OR ANY PERSONS OPERATING UNDER THE CONTRACTUAL ARRANGEMENT OR AGREEMENTS BY WHICH THE CITY, THE EMISSIONS OF SOUND FOR THE PURPOSE OF PRIVATE OR CLEARING OTHER SNOW REMOVAL. PARADES, PUBLIC GATHERINGS, OR OTHER SPORTING EVENTS FOR WHICH PROPER PERMITS HAVE BEEN ISSUED emergency vehicles including police fire and civil defense and ambulances and locomotive trains it shall be unlawful for any person or entity to make cause or permit any noise that by its volume duration or character is plainly audible beyond property lines beyond the physical boundaries of an individual dwelling unit including the shared walls floors or ceilings of the structures or at the distance of two hundred feet or which unreasonably disturbs the comfort repose or safety of a reasonable person of normal sensibilities evidence of such noise observance by a police officer shall constitute prima facie evidence proof of violation specific prohibitions. The following acts are specifically prohibited by this section in the causing or allowance of the occurrence of said act is hereby declared to be in violation of this section provided however that the provisions of this section shall not apply to emergency work or repair work performed by and for government entities or public utilities or private entities where such work is necessary to be restored Public or private property to the safe condition for the following public calamity or work required to protect persons or property from an imminent exposure to danger and provide further that the necessity of work shall be determined by the inspector of the building or by the authorized emergency or public utility personnel. Motorized vehicle and equipment operating or permitting the operation of the following devices or vehicles ON THE DAYS AND TIMES SPECIFIED BELOW IN THE RESIDENTIAL ZONE IN THE CITY WITHIN 300 FEET OF A BUILDING OR STRUCTURE WHICH IS USED IN WHOLE OR IN PART FOR THE RESIDENTIAL PURPOSE IN ANY ZONE OF THE CITY. A ALL ELECTRIC MOTORS OR INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES USED In the yard, garden maintenance, including but not limited to lawnmowers, riding tractors, leaf vacuums, leaf blowers, clippers, trimmers, and other garden or farm tools and equipment and pavement sweepers on privately owned lots between the hours of 9 p.m. and 7 a.m. on weekdays and on Sundays and holidays before 9 a.m. and after 9 p.m. all electric motors or internal combustion engines or other construction devices, tools or equipment used in construction, drilling, demolition maintenance, or earth moving, including but not limited to bulldozers, backhoes, concrete mixers, dump trucks, pneumonic tools, rollers, scrapers, air compressors, generators, jackhammers, cranes, pavement breakers, pile drivers, rock drills, and chainsaws between the hours of 5 p.m. and 7 a.m. on weekdays and Saturdays before 8 a.m. and after 4 p.m. and any time on Sundays and holidays." Snowmobiles between the hours of 7 p.m. and 8 a.m. on the weekdays and between the hours of 7 p.m. and 9 a.m. on Sundays and holidays. Commercial trash compactors or collection of rubbish from dumpsters or other receptacles by commercial vehicles over 10,000 pounds between the hours of 9 p.m. and 7 a.m. on weekdays and between the hours of 9 p.m. and 10 a.m. on Sundays and holidays. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection... f one a and b above an air compressor or generator may be operated at a specific location between the hours of eight a m and five p m on sundays and holidays when special written permission has been granted for that particular day by the chief of police or his designee or the chief of police or the designee determine that such air compressor or generator is necessary and adjunct to a certain specific business activity and the specific business activity for which permission is sought can feasibly only be performed on that Sunday or holiday. to radio, stereo equipment, et cetera, operating, playing, or permitting the operation or playing of any radio, stereo, television, phonograph, musical instrument, sound amplifier, a similar device which produces or reproduces or amplifies sound in a manner that makes it clearly audible across residential property boundaries. Activities open to the public for which proper permits have been issued shall be exempt for this provision. Animals, birds, etc., the keeping of an animal or bird which frequently and continue periods of time causes excessive conditions of noise pollution in any residential zone in the city or within 300 feet of a building which is used in whole or in part for residential purposes in any zone of the city. Hawkers and peddlers, etc., offering for the sale or selling of anything by shouting or outcrying within a residential area of the city, loading, unloading, etc., the loading, unloading, and opening and closing, handling of boxes, crates, containers, building materials, garbage cans, or similar objects in a manner that causes a condition of noise pollution across residential rail property boundaries, yelling and shouting, et cetera. Yelling, shouting, hooting, whistling, singing in the public streets at any place that causes a condition of noise pollution from 11 p.m. to 8 a.m., loudspeakers operating or causing to be operated and a public address loudspeaker, whether mobile or stationary between the hours of 7.30 p.m. and 8 a.m. or any time without the written permission of the chief of police or his designee, horn signaling devices, et cetera, the sound of any horn or signaling device or any other motor vehicle for any unreasonable period or time except in danger as a warning. Motorized vehicles, additional prohibitions. No person when not in traffic shall operate the engine providing the motor power or any auxiliary engine of a motor vehicle with the manufacturer's gross weight rating of 10,000 pounds or more for a consecutive period of longer than five minutes while such vehicle is standing and locating within 150 feet of a property zone used for residential purposes except where such vehicle is standing within completely enclosed structure. This section shall not apply to the delivery or pickup of vehicles that require the operation of the engine to unload or load the vending loads, nor for the operation of the vehicles carrying products which must be kept refrigerated. No person shall operate within the speed limit specified in subsection G, either a motor vehicle or combined vehicles type. Subject to registration any time under the condition of grade, load, acceleration, or deceleration in any manner to exceed the noise limit listed in subsection G for this category of motor vehicle. Based on the legal speed limit posted or not, or the roadway to which the operation of such noise be measured in the distance of no more than 50 feet from the center line for the travel under the test procedures established by subsection G. In the event that the distance of the measuring instrument from the center line to the travel of less than 50 feet Such listed noise limit shall be corrected to reflect the equivalent noise limits for the actual distance. No person shall operate a motorized recreational vehicle, including but not limited to a motorboat, dirt bike, dune buggy, go-kart, moped, motorbike, snowmobile, or permit the operation of more than such recreational vehicles individually in a group or in an organization or racing event or public-private Property in such a manner as to create conditional noise pollution across residential property boundaries. For the purposes of subsection F, weekdays shall be understood to mean the period of time extending from 7 a.m. on Mondays until 9 p.m. on Saturdays of each week, but excluding holidays. Sub F. Maximum noise levels. Following levels are the maximum noise levels that are permitted for specified noise sources, vehicular noise sources. The maximum DBA permitted for stationary run-ups for vehicle class, all vehicles over 10,000 pounds, the limit of 35 miles per hour or less, limit of 35 to 45 miles per hour. All vehicles over 10,000 pounds with a GVWR of 86, limit is 90. All motorcycles at speed limit of 82 or less, speed limit of 35 or less, the limit is 82. Speed limit of 35 to 45, the noise limit is 82. The measure shall be from a distance of 50 feet to the closest point of bypass of a source of 50 feet from the stationary vehicle. This section applies to all Total noise from vehicle or combined vehicles and shall not be construed as the limiting or precluding or enforcement of any other provisions of the codes relating to the motor vehicle muffler or noise control. The measurement of sound or noise shall be made with a sound level meter meeting the standard prescribed by the American National Standards Institute or its successor body. The instrument shall be maintained and calibrated in good working order. The calibration check shall be made with the systems of time-to-time and noise measurements. Measurements... Work records shall be taken so as to provide proper representation of the noise source. The microphone during the measurement shall be positioned so as not to create a natural enhancement or diminution of the measured noise. A widescreen for the microphone shall be used when required. Traffic, aircraft, and other transportation noises, sources, and background noises shall not be considered in taking measurements except where the background noise interferes with the primary noise being measured. Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in consistent operation to prevent noises exceeding the DBA levels of subsection G. Construction, demolition, and manufacturing equipment, maximum noise levels permitted for construction items, a backhoe, bulldozer, concrete mixer, dump truck, load paver, mnemonic tools, rollers, scrapers, cranes, but specifically excluding jack cameras, pavement breakers, pile drivers, and cranes. The permitted noise level is 90. For air compressors, full size, the noise level of DBA is 85. For generators, it's 80. Electric drills, Sanders saws, including chainsaws and other power tools, types, whether handheld or otherwise, are 75. Chipper running at full speed but not chipping. is 90, solid waste compactor, 85, home tractor, leaf blower, 80, lawn mowers or trim, 75. Noise measurement shall be made in distance of 50 feet from the source or the property line. 3. Maximum noise levels exclusions. The following devices shall be exempt from maximum noise levels set forth in G2, provided that the noise barriers and noise shields are used to protect nearby areas and conditions, noise pollutants, jack cameras, pavement breakers, pile drivers, and rock drills. The time limits contained in Sections F1B shall apply... noting nothing in this section shall be construed to exempt such devices from the provisions of such sections. The tonal sound corrections exemptions. When a tonal sound as defined in this section is emitted by a noise source specified in subsection G1 or G2 herein, the limited or maximum noise levels shall be five dBA lower than the specified subsection G1 and G2. The provisions of this paragraph four shall not apply to active Activities covered by subsection G1 motorized vehicles, one emergency signaling vehicles, and stationary non-emergency signaling vehicles. Sub five, alternative measures procedures. If it is not possible to make a good noise level measurement at the distance specified in subsection G1 and G2, measurements may be made as an alternate distance in the noise level subsequently calculated for the specified distance. Calculations shall be made in accordance with established engineering procedures. All noise levels measurements made pursuant to the subsection shall be made in the type one or type two A weighted sound levels metered as specified under the American National Standards Institute Noise sources causing noise pollution. When an offending noise source is located in public spaces, noise measurements shall be made at and noise pollutants determinations made in relation to any location a passerby might reasonably occupy. When offending noise sources is located on private property, noise measurements shall be made at noise pollutant determinations made in relation to the boundary line of the property within which the offending noise source is located or is close thereto as feasible. All noise level measurements made pursuant to subsection G shall be made with type 1 or type 2A weighted sound level meters as specified under the American National Standard Institute standards. Emergency signaling devices. No person shall operate or permit the intentional sounding of outdoor of any fire, burglar, or civil defense alarm, siren, whistling, or similar stationary emergency signaling device except for an emergency purposes or for testing as provided in subparagraph 2 of the subsection. Testing of a stationary emergency signaling device shall occur for the same time of day as a test performed but not before 7 a.m. or after 8.30 p.m. Any such testing shall use only minimal cycles of test time. In no case shall the test time exceed 60 seconds. stationary non-emergency signaling devices exemptions no person shall operate or permit the sound of any statutory bell chime siren whistle or similar device intended primarily for non-emergency purposes from any place for more than one minute in any hour period in no event shall any such sound Take place before 7 a.m. or after 8.30 p.m. Devices used in conjunction with the places of religious worship shall be exempt from the operation of this section. Enforcement. The police department and traffic control officers shall charge with enforcement. Officers may establish probable cause for violation through the direct observation, citizen complaint corroborated by the officer's president, or other competent evidence. Use of sound level measuring equipment is optional and not required for enforcement. Penalties. Violation of any of the provisions of this section shall constitute a misdemeanor or any person upon conviction of such violation shall be fined in accordance with the following schedule. No less than $200 for each offense. and a separate offense shall be deemed committed each day during which or in which the violation occurs or continues. The foregoing may be enforced by the police officers and by traffic control officers. This section may be enforced by non-criminal procedures in accordance with Chapter 1.16 of the Codes of the General Laws, Chapter 40, Section 21D. As I say, it may be amended from time to time. Conflict with other regulations. The provisions contained within this section shall not relieve any person from complying with any other law, statute, codes, regulations, or ordinances of the Commonwealth or of the city. Severability. If any of the provisions of this section or the application of which to any persons or circumstances shall be held invalid. The validity of the remainder of the section and the applicability of such provisions to other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby. To the extent that there exist any ordinances to the contrary, they are appealed in that respect only. Persons wishing to be heard shall be afforded the opportunity.

Anybody from the public that wishes to speak? Anybody from the public that wishes to speak? Nobody? So at this point, public hearing is closed. Councillors, what is the motion?

I'd like to make a motion to approve.

There's a motion to approve. Properly second. Discussion?

Discussion.

Yes.

I've got a series of questions. If the author of the proponent for that would come forward, I think that's the captain.

We have the police department here.

Good evening, counsel. Good evening. There's a lot to absorb here. It's evident in the fact that it took the clerk 10 minutes to read that. I apologize. Well, listen, I may give you or not give you credit for this. This is a lot of work. I don't believe in recreating the wheel. Was this wheel already created somewhere else? Was this language in another community that seems to be working? And if so, what community was it?

So I can't take credit for the creation of the ordinance, sir. It was actually a collaborative effort between myself other members of the department, and also attorney. So that's how it came about. We currently do have a city ordinance that addresses obviously noise, however, it's weak at best.

So this is essentially, you didn't go to another community. You just saw our ordinance and then worked off of that. Is that how this was created?

That's the approach that we took. We found the issues or the holes within our ordinance and sought out to fix them.

Okay. So this ordinance goes beyond noise. It deals with emissions. And so on several places it talks about idling, for example.

I apologize, but it's not meant to address emissions per se. It's meant to address idling vehicles. A construction vehicle idling for an extended period of time in a residential area. I think that we've all been there. We've all had some work done. either nearby our residences, but that's what's meant to address, obviously.

Since you've put a lot of time and work and effort into this, you are on the front lines of getting our phone calls on noise ordinance violations. So what were you trying to address in this proposal that wasn't captured in the current ordinance? Of course.

The biggest problem, Counselor, is The current ordinance that we have in the books doesn't have any teeth. Ultimately, it is a suggestion once you're cited on whether you will actually pay that fine. There is no consequence for not paying it. What happens now is you... IT GIVES US AN AVENUE TO TRAVEL DOWN TO ACTUALLY HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE. I GIVE YOU A CITATION. YOU COULD CHOOSE TO APPEAL IT. OBVIOUSLY THE CERTAIN RIGHTS TO APPEAL THAT I'LL GO INTO LATER. but it found liable for it, and you failed to comply with payment, that we could actually go, it's now a misdemeanor. We'll put in a complaint over at the courthouse, and get you in front of a clerk, into a magistrate, I'm sorry.

So you believe, what this does, that it provides you call it teeth, or immediate enforcement with penalties that are more quickly administered as opposed to going through the legal process through courts, the misdemeanors. Is that accurate?

No, sir. So as of right now, the way it stands, I go over to your house. I've been there a bunch of times. I go over to your house. I give you a citation for the loud noise. Quite frankly, it is a suggestion. You know, I counsel the Michael Plan should probably pay this. But if I don't feel like it, it's fine because nothing is going to happen. And that's how it's been now for years. And, you know, in the year 2026, you know, the word gets out quick. You know, so when you, you know, now you have... You have a bunch of houses, you know, loud parties, and the word is out there, hey, you don't have to pay the ticket. And, you know, and it continues. New Festus.

Right. I'm just going to go through certain sections of this. Please. On subsection B, parentheses number 23, it talks about exceptions to the noise ordinance. One of them is parades, public gatherings, and sporting events where proper permits have been issued. one of the things that on some of the festivals that we have that may be downtown but constituents of mine are hearing it and we're two miles away um are you suggesting that if something is loud two miles away that that's an exemption that there's there's no noise ordinance being violated under this under this exemption

What we're saying is that as long as a permit was, in fact, granted for this, you know, for that particular parade or event, then, you know, it's... I'm assuming that when issuing out a permit, you know, considerations are made, you know, or, you know, they take into consideration whether it will affect or who it will affect and for how long it will affect the population. You know what I'm saying? So what we're saying here is it... that would not constitute a violation, as long as a permit has been issued.

So let me, I'm sorry to drill down on this. So you can put it as loud as you want, but since you have a permit, you can put things as loud as you want, because that's what I'm hearing.

No, what it becomes, it becomes your job then. What happens is you issue the permit, you issue a festival, then the next year, Next year when you come, that person comes in front of you and says we're going to have fireworks. Attorney Hilton.

Yes. Introduce yourself.

Attorney Tim Houghton for the City of Lawrence. Next year when I put in for that permit, you as a representative of the city said, last year you had fireworks. They were too loud. We're not going to allow them this year. They have a legal permit. We don't monitor that on that night. But... Obviously, you're the one that issues the permit. You have the right to say no permit. You have the right to put no fireworks. You have the right to do anything with those. But if somebody comes before you, they're trying to be legal. So we're not trying to address legal. We're trying to address illegal.

Okay. All right. So one of the biggest problems is a lot of problems. I don't need to tell you how important this issue is to the people that we represent, that I represent. IT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT. I WOULD RANK THIS PROBABLY THE TOP FIVE ISSUES THAT THE PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT COMPLAIN ABOUT IS NOISE. IT DRIVES PEOPLE OUT OF THE CITY. So when you're suggesting to me that we have control over that, if there's a permit that's being issued for a festival, parades, we don't. Parades are on public waste. We don't issue permits for parades. And I've been in parades where along the sides of the street, I remember on Broadway, for example, there are boombox speakers the size of automobiles booming things out. And I couldn't even, there's no way that I could talk to someone next to me as I'm going down there. That's a police department, for example, permit. It's not a permit by the city council. So in that particular case, that's extremely loud. I mean, really, really loud. This is an exemption to that. They can do that.

The vehicles within the parade, I've been at those parades, believe me. I know exactly what we're talking about. I've been at those parades. The vehicles within the parade, on the parade route, involved in the parade, I'm sorry. Those vehicles are exempt. Anything else is extra and it's fair game for the purpose of the ordinance.

Next, we'll move on. I think it's subsection D, I wrote these notes down. It is, right past that, subsection 8. We talked about the property line as being this line where if some, explain why the line is important and why the reasonable man standard is applied here with respect to if you go in and you hear something on the street, is that violated because you hear something not across the property line, does that trigger the noise ordinance? violation?

Not necessarily. So you've got to understand that this is not... We're not trying to use this as an arbitrary... We don't want to use this arbitrarily. We don't want to... You've got to remember that by law, the noise can't bother me. You can't disturb my peace as a police officer. So this is... You could have the music or the noise, whatever noise, as loud as you possibly want in your house. If it doesn't bother your neighbors, it's fine. You know what I'm saying? I could drive by it a million times. It can't bother me legally. So it's a reasonable standard, but also there has to be a triggering factor, and that is it bothers somebody, a member of the public.

So that bar is very low. it would seem to me, as I'm driving through our city oftentimes, it will, if someone is living in a, we're so congested, if someone is living in a house, and the next house within 10 feet away, because we're very close to each other, can hear the music in the house next door to it, and you go there, or a police officer goes there and hears that, does it automatically trigger as a violation? No, sir. No.

So it triggers a response. An officer will come down and actually assess what's happening. And our officers, or the vast majority of our officers, live in the city. They do understand the city. And they would be the arbiters of whether it's reasonable, or at least the first arbiters of whether it's reasonable or not. And the call would simply be documented. Not everything goes straight to a citation. Not everything goes straight to a hearing. Sometimes a conversation, hey, it's bothering your neighbor, resolves the issue. Most times he does.

Okay, but I'm just talking about the law. We have here an ordinance. We're going to draft a law, and the law is very clear, and this is a proposal, is unlawful for any person or entity to make noise, cause or prevent noise by its volume, duration, or character, is plainly audible beyond a property line, beyond the physical boundaries of an individual dwelling unit, including shared walls, floors, ceilings, and a multi-tenant residence structure, or at a distance of 200 feet, or which unreasonably disturbs the comfort, repose, or safety of a reasonable person of normal sensibilities. Evidence of such noise, so if you hear it, as I might interpret it, evidence of such noise observed by a police officer shall, shall, not may, shall constitute a prima facie proof of violation.

There is a reasonable status, reasonable, step forward. So, there is nothing louder than a bunch of four-year-olds at a birthday party. But that occurs during the day. That same decibel at 2 a.m. would be a violation, that decibel during the day. A reasonable person would say a party of a bunch of kids outside is not unreasonable. Someone saying at 2 a.m. to hear that same pitch and tenor is unreasonable. So that's why there's a reasonable standard of what you hear. There is always going to be the one person that is going to be upset by everything. That is not the reasonable person. I don't like my next door neighbor because their doorbell rings funny. I don't like anything. That's not the reasonable. The reasonable person is a person, when you come across it, what would a reasonable person hear? If it's the middle of the day, there's a bunch of kids laughing, a reasonable person would say that's not a noise violation. At 2 a.m., that same decibel sound, I'm not saying it's going to be a bunch of little kids, hopefully they're in bed by then, but that could be deemed to be a violation.

I just think that, and I get it, law's not perfect. It's somewhat not arbitrary, but it's subjective sometimes. And I understand that you're going to use some discretion. If it's a four-year-old's birthday party at 2 in the afternoon, that's one thing. If it's a four-year-old's birthday party at 2 in the morning, that's something a little different. I don't care if it's a four-year-old's birthday party. People have got to work the next day. People have got to go to school. People have got other responsibilities, whether it's a four-year-old's party or just a rip-roaring keg. party going on at a house or whatever. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't make a difference. Noise is noise, and if someone can't sleep, they can't sleep, regardless of who is making the noise. That is a problem.

That's why I said it depends on the time of the day and the reasonable standards.

Moving on, 9A. Yeah, it's me. Well, I'm almost done, and that'll be it for me, I think, unless something gets triggered. I'm almost done. There's some section that talks about, I want two more things. One is about the noise meters, just so we know where I'm going. And the second, it talks about the weekends. I was confused by that. So let's start with the weekends. Under F, it talks about maximum noise levels. No, before that, subsection C must be E. For the purpose of Section F, weekdays will be understood to mean the period of time extending from 7 a.m. on Monday to 9 p.m. on Saturday of each week. What are you attributing that to? What is that for, the weekdays slash weekends?

Well, you have a bunch of sections within this ordinance speak about this.

It's 9F. I'm sorry, 9C.

Yeah. So you have sections within the ordinance that tell you about when, you know, for example, you can use a pile driver. So this is just, you know, and that's just an example or a wood chip or things like that. This is just basically defining what it is that we're calling the week or the weekend.

All right. That's fine. I just, I know that my colleagues, I don't want to take all this time. My last question, and I may come back. My last question is the noise meters. There's a... I think this reference, a noise meter, was referenced in here. Did I hear that correctly? Yes, sir. Okay. When is that used? Talk to me about the noise meters.

I could tell you with 100% honesty that we do not plan on using noise meters.

Okay.

Okay. So the officer's observations, the officer's observations, the reports, that will, you know, well, a report will trigger an officer to come down and make observations. And obviously using the reasonable and standard, we would go ahead and... And I'll tell you, and I'll be completely honest with you, using a meter, you know, or relying on a meter at every single call is not feasible. Just the maintenance of the meter alone, getting, you know, it's not simply just that we bought a meter. It's the maintenance of the meter itself, having it calibrated on a regular basis adds a cost. It makes it cost prohibitive. If I could be perfectly honest.

So going back to the enforcement, you mentioned on the ordinance that enforcement, it only can be done by the traffic enforcement and the police department.

Correct, sir.

And you mentioned meters. But on the enforcement, you also talk about observations. Correct. So how are you going to differentiate and how are you going to measure the decibels? Because the whole thing around this ordinance was about the decibels. How are you going to measure the decibels? I mean, it can be subjective.

No, it's not. Well, everything is subjective in our reality when we talk about noise and what bothers people. Ultimately, an officer, a police officer, or the police station gets a report, this bothers me. And an officer is deployed to that area to determine, yes, this is reasonable, this is not reasonable. I can tell you from personal experience, I've been to houses where they're just simply playing the TV, you know, and it bothers somebody. You know, somebody is more sensitive than others. So the officer does get to make that observation and have those conversations and ultimately make a decision.

Look, I have this meter right now. It's been used since we started the conversation because my whole thing around this was about the decibels. I kind of like, you know, went around and around and around this old, the old ordinance we used to have, and the main problem that I have with it is that it didn't have any decibels to measure the sound of anything. It could be a conversation. So far, we exceed 90 decibels within this conversation. We have 91 decibels max within this whole conversation we have right now on these ordinances. The average is about 65 decibels. So it is, if I'm actually looking into a specific case to be able to say that it violated the ordinance, we need to have some type of device that measure the, within the observation, have to have some type of device that measure the noise level. Otherwise, it's not gonna be sustainable in court.

I was going to use a little lawyer's trick, which I'm not going to do, is right now I would scream at you at the top of my lungs, scream so loud, okay, I think everybody here would say that was inappropriate. You don't need a decibel meter. Common sense tells you what that is. That's enforceable in court. If the officer arrives and then another officer arrives and another officer arrives and they all testify the same thing, that is enforceable. They don't need a meter.

So you're telling me that at the time that 10 people have a ticket and five of them decide to go to court, and we have five officers, different officers that give all those tickets, you're telling me that we're going to send those five officers to the court to testify?

That's currently what happened, sir.

But that's wrong. That's why we need to change it because if we have a decibel meter, we can say the facts.

You would still have to have the officer come in and testify. On such and such a date, I calibrated this meter. On such and such a date, I deployed the meter. The meter went off on this date. So those five police officers would still show up because they would now be talking about a meter instead of what they observed.

But that's not how we do business when it comes to traffic tickets, because we have a lieutenant that go to court and present those evidence in front of the court. And then if that person go to fight the ticket in front of the judge, and then the police officer need to go. So that's not our case when it comes to tickets. This is going to be the same situation. Yes, exactly. But I mean, we need facts measured by the meter.

So right now, going back to how it works when you're appealing a citation, you appeal a citation, the police officer doesn't show up, they drop the citation. Ultimately, in essence, that's how it works. So now you're going to... by the use of the decibel meter would add an additional person that would have to actually show up to court. The officer will still have to go and attest to what he witnessed or she witnessed at the time of the violation. but now you have to add another person to it, you know, and documentation to it, and that would be documentation pertaining to the calibration of the meter itself, and also the person that was in charge of the maintenance of the meter itself, the person that takes care of that would actually have to be in court as well for that purpose.

Yeah, and the way that I'm seeing this, I'm in support of the ordinance, but if we're not going to enforce it through a device and just subjective observations, I don't think I'm going to be able to support it because... We need to look at both sides. We need to look at the person that is complaining about somebody's bothering me, but the other person also has rights, which are only going to be defined by what is the actual noise level. And based on observation, it's very subjective.

Everything is actually subjective, sir.

But not in front of the court, though.

No, absolutely.

If I see you run a red light, the officer is going to say, I saw that red light. There's no meter. It's the same testimony. It's the court judging the veracity of the officer versus the person. It's the same thing. That happens in court every day. That's what he does for a living. He goes in and says, I observed this. There is no meter. There's no special thing that bolsters him. It's his word, and that's what's going to happen in the cases. The officers are going to go and testify. This is what I heard. This is my belief. It was loud. And the court will accept it or not accept it. The person has a right to say, I don't believe it was that loud, but... I mean, that's the way it happens.

So what you're saying right now is that every case that is present by the police department at the court of law is correct. That is not a case.

No, no. It's up to the court to decide. But the evidence that's presented is they may not believe the officer.

I believe that to be able to change the ordinance we currently have, we have to have some type of device that actually measures the actual noise level. If we're not using it, actually that was my first statement on the question, enforcement and shall. Those are the first thing that I actually look into it. And then when Councillor LaPlante asked you, you mentioned that the intent is not to use the meters. So that was my first trigger point or question or red flag that actually caught my attention on this ordinance. If I may clarify something for you, Council President.

I would like for you to look at it this way for just one second. Somebody calls and complains about music. I'm not going to mail you a ticket.

No.

I'm not going to take the word of whoever called, you know, and without vetting it, issue you a citation.

That's correct.

An officer is going to go over to the scene, put eyes on the situation, all right, and using the common sense, the common sense, you know, that we expect all of our officers to have, will make a determination on what the appropriate outcome for this interaction is going to be. Is it reasonable? Is it not reasonable? That determination will be made on scene at that time. So we will not be mailing anybody a citation. It would make it really easy if you could do it that way, but that's not the case.

And look at it from this perspective. Do you think it wouldn't be easier to show up to a property Stand in front of the boundaries as established by the ordinance. If it is a piece of equipment, 50 feet. If it is a house, the boundaries of that property. Measure the decibels. get the actual facts, and walk into that property and say, you guys violate the ordinance, these are the facts, and you earned a citation.

To be honest.

Instead of common sense, because common sense means different things for different people. It could be, give me a minute, it could be that somebody don't like that music. We have had that complaint, and that bothers that person. The type of music bothers the person, not how loud it is. It's two different things. That's why we need to put our police officer on a position that that is not a question. You're going to go over there and measure how loud it is through a decibel meter. That's it. It shouldn't be subjective. And that's the main problem with the old ordinance. It was very subjective. It was up to the police officer and up to somebody that called and get bothered by something. And that's the whole thing around it.

But I think you're misunderstanding, excuse me, but you're misunderstanding police work. Okay, here's what really happens. Police officer arrives on scene, hears noise. Hi, your neighbor's complaining. Could you please turn it down? They turn it down, you leave. If there's other calls, that's when it happens. This isn't like an automatic. Every time we hear a noise, police officers going over there issuing a ticket. It's community policing. It's... Hey, maybe you don't know this, but your neighbor doesn't like this. Maybe you don't notice I'm out from the street. Maybe you don't notice that your kids are playing. That's the real world of policing, is that they're there to make friends. They're there to help the people. They're not there to just write tickets. They're not going to be standing out there with this meter going around the city. They're going to be going like, how do I make it better for everybody?

I understand completely, but remember that I live here. And I know I have had those complaints a bunch. And we all know that sometimes people get bothered by any specific reasons. What I'm asking is that I'm not saying take that right away from that person or take the right of the person that is listening to music, perhaps. I'm not saying that. I'm saying the police department should start in the middle and look at the facts. And that should be the reasons, the ground as of how you're going to be writing a ticket. I don't think we should be discussing this type of, you know, basics. We cannot just depend on observations to write a ticket to somebody. Even when you get a speed ticket, for you to prove it in court, you need to have that meter. which is the speed gun. You do not.

Not necessarily, sir.

There is different methodologies, but not an observation.

I'm just talking as an experienced attorney.

There is different methodology, but not an observation.

I've never had a speeding ticket where they brought the gun in.

But not an observation. You cannot write a ticket where you say, oh, that person was fast. Yes, you can, sir. But that's not supported in the court of law. You can write it, but you're not going to win it.

You have two statutes that cover speed. You have chapter 90, section 17, and chapter 90, section 18, one being posted and one being graded and reasonable. And there is such thing as driving too fast for the conditions, for the road conditions, the weather, things like that. And yes, absolutely, 100% can be based on observation.

Well, to be honest with you, if it is a weather condition and you sleep and then you have a car that went through the place, yes, it was based on observation, but it was an after the fact situation. That person went in through the hill and probably have an accident. Yes, it's a fact after the fact. You observe, but it was something else. It's not like somebody pass in front of me and say, oh, that person was fast. Because it could be observed from different point of view and different perspective. Even culture get into it. Say, oh, where I come from, people don't go that fast. So now they go fast. But what is fast? So what is noise? What is the noise level that we expecting? Like that common sense that every officer should have is dependable on so many factors. It could be that my family like salsa, but this other family like merengue, and then the other one like bachata. That's subjective, and that's what we don't want.

Here's, again, just going into what the reality of police work is. I've made hundreds of arrests in my career for hundreds of different crimes that were committed, and I witnessed very few of them. So a lot of it was, you know, observations that somebody else made, you know, me putting my, you know, go responding to wherever it was, conducting an investigation, using my common sense to arrive at, you know, more likely than not, you know, to what probable causes. Do you understand what I'm saying, sir? No, 100%. So we already expect... And we already trust our police officers, not only this community, but every community that has law enforcement to exercise common sense at a much higher degree than just simply a noise citation. So if we already have that, I think that we, my opinion.

No, no, no, you're a police officer, of course. But there is other people that doesn't think the same way. And we need, as a council, we need to stand in the middle and say, this is going to work for the police department, but also going to work for the community. We're in the middle of the whole thing. And because this is going to be a law. This is going to be a law. And if we don't analyze the law from our point of view, just from the complainer point of view or the police department point of view, we're not being fair and probably violate people's rights because we need to look at it from every aspect. And having a meter will solve the whole issue. Having a meter because you're going to have facts. It's not about, you know, I'm suggesting that you are because we trust the guys that are you know, at the police department. Not everybody is like that. Not everybody have the same sentiment. No, I mean, we cannot be naive about the situation. It is different reality for different type of people. And if we just leave it as subjective as anything, and we don't have facts about the problem, we might cause other problems.

Just one final note. It should be noted that no community has hundreds of meters. Everybody has a noise ordinance. They're all enforcing it right now. They're all doing it currently, and they're all relying on the police office to enforce it. This is nothing new. We're not creating something out of the hole. I would also say, and I don't want to bring this in, but IF TOMORROW ALL OF A SUDDEN THE POLICE CHIEF CAME IN AND SAID I NEED $100,000 BECAUSE I GOT TO GET METERS, I GOT TO GET TRAINING, I GOT TO GET ALL THIS STUFF, I MEAN, THAT'S A TAX BURDEN ON THE CITIZENS TOO. YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT WORKS IN EVERY OTHER COMMUNITY. I THINK IT WOULD WORK IN THIS COMMUNITY.

YOU'VE BEEN TOO OPEN, TIM. YOU'RE THE TRAINER. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT WORKS IN EVERY COMMUNITY. I MEAN, YOU'RE ASSUMING. THAT'S NOT FAIR, TIM. I mean, I know that is a little passionate situation, but I mean, it's there.

We reviewed their bylaws, and nobody required meters. But it's sure.

Because those are the actual measures. Those are the actual facts. The law says it's based on the facts. It doesn't mean that it's right. One or two questions that somebody wrote about those two questions. Sport event and sweeping during the night. Are those the same? How are those going to work?

I'm sorry, you said sport events? Sport events and also... As long as there are activities that are sanctioned by the city, meaning permitted, you know, we went to the proper venues to actually get permission.

And also, what about sweeping during the night? That goes at night, so what's going to happen with those?

Sweeping, again, that's a function that's allowed by, sanctioned by the city.

Just want to make sure that I ask the question.

The same with also with snow blowing, you know.

Got it. Any other councilors? I go to the second one. Council President. Councilor Infante.

Thank you. Hi, Captain Longdouse. My question for you, a question slash concern is, what is the plan that LPD has to implement enforce this besides ticketing. And what I mean by enforcement is right now we're having issues with capacity. Right now we're having issues with the noise calls that we're currently having. And we can use 4th of July as an example. I was in Boxford at my aunt's house celebrating my grandfather's birthday. And the second that I entered Lawrence, all the noise, the music, the fireworks, everything, like it was ridiculous. And I actually, that same night, I had a constituent email me saying that she wrote to the noise complaint email that LPD has, and the response she got back was, please be patient. So if we are having issues enforcing or attending to calls and emails currently, what is going to change if this ordinance were to pass?

Go ahead. Hi, Councilor. I think that... I'm sorry.

Just to speak to the... Oh, I'm sorry.

I do believe that we created a condition here in the city of Lawrence where we have allowed things to fester There are no consequences. And sadly, that's what it is. Again, I could come over to your house and give you a citation.

Just speak to the mic.

I apologize. I could come over to your house, give you a citation. It's up to you whether you want to pay it or not. It doesn't matter. There's no consequence behind it. And that has festered. The word has spread. So now there will be repeat visits to your house, you know. And it will be over and over again. It's not that officers are not responding. I know that during the 4th of July weekend there was volume of calls. So, yeah, it did take some time for people to get to places, officers to get to places. But the consequence that we could bring with us when it was, in fact, a sustained violation, we're very limited. We could give you, we could, you know, it's, when you tell your, I think it's safe to say that most of us have our parents here, when you tell your kids, don't do this or don't do that, and then you add the or, you know, or I will take the iPad, I will, you know, there's no TV. When there is in fact a consequence, there is a change in the pattern of behavior that they exhibit. There has to be an or. If we don't have the or, and this gives us that or, I'm trying to keep it as simple as I possibly can. The Lawrence Police Department is, especially during the Fourth of July weekend, I get the emails. I get them directly on my phone. I saw exactly what was happening in the city. And not having as frustrating as it is to the citizen that's experiencing the noise is just as frustrating to the officer that can do absolutely nothing with it. I could hand you the citation that we have and that we currently have. And when I walk away, you could flush it down the toilet because it means absolutely nothing.

Council President, thank you, Captain Montes.

I try to read all of this. Is it a guarantee based on this ordinance that the first initial visit of a complaint is that it's a warning given to. uh, the tenant, the owner, and then it, so it's a documented warning. And then any subsequent visits after that is where a citation is issued, or is that also upon the discretion of the officer?

So it's all the discretion of the officer. However, this is how I see how it currently works, or how it's worked for as long as I've been a police officer. I'm assuming that a whole lot longer. Every single call that comes into the Lawrence Police Department is logged. So when I get called to 90 Lowell Street, the computer system goes ahead and alerts me that I've been there, that I've never been there, or I've been there 20 times. And if I have, in fact, been there 20 times, it alerts me what I had been there for. I do have to tell you, not every response warrants a citation. At the same time, not every response warrants a warning. So that's what it is.

I understand. And I do understand the importance of this ordinance as I've used the email. The last time I used it, I was actually surprised as to how quick I received the response. And within 30 or less than 30 minutes, I saw that that issue was addressed. Um, and I, I, I try to be compassionate, you know, I understand like if it's a weekend, you know, anything like past 10, it's kind of like where I get a little bit annoyed and then come Sunday, it's like, Oh, I'm working the next day. So, um, so I noticed the, the time change is I believe seven, seven 30. So I'm assuming that that's Monday through Sunday, like that's the seven days of the week. Correct.

Right. All right. So noise is, again, is something that is subjective. The noise can't bother me as a police officer. It's when it bothers somebody else. So people can call the Lawrence Police Department at any point in time, and the officer is going to, like Attorney Hoon said, if it's a birthday party at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, you know, you know, the officer more likely than not would side with the fact that this is normal. This is reasonable.

Um, but when this is happening at five o'clock in the morning, the officer will probably, and then playing devil's advocate, I must say that, um, I understand certain points that our council president is trying to make. And it's the fear of trying, not the fear. Let me reword. This is trying to mitigate the abuse of power. Again, not, you know, not to, um, not trying to imply that the department, you know, um, is not doing their due diligence, but it's also, you know, us trying to make sure that this ordinance is not handing over, uh, pretty much the keys for a potential abuse of power in allowing like a free for all of citations being made when sometimes, um, again, because it's upon the discretion of the officer to make this determination on whether that determination was actually adequate or not. So I could see the council president's point, but I also understand the importance of having this ordinance. So I feel like we're in a pickle here, huh?

Well, again, and if I may, um, like I told you, most, most of, uh, the, Most police officers that you've met in your life, especially active police officers, just think of the amount of arrests that they made in their careers. There is zero chance that they were at every single one of those scenes when the incident actually took place. We actually receive things typically after it happens. You already trust the police. with doing the right thing. You got to think of what the power of a police officer. The police officer at any point in time could deprive you of your freedom. You went ahead, you know, as a society and gave them that right, that ability. If you could trust a police officer with taking away your freedom of movement The idea that you can't trust them with a citation book, you know, what are we doing? No, I'm not coming at you, sir. I'm just saying like.

Can I add one more thing? I just want to add one more thing as I'm thinking about it. In my district, I'm a little, I'm afraid in terms of how this may affect business owners within, what is it, Broadway. portion of Essex street. So I've had business owners complain to me how, okay, so let me paint this picture. I have residents, you know, Essex towers within where that market, um, McDonald's intersection. And I understand the frustrations where the residents are complaining about the loud music. Um, with the surrounding potential nightclubs that are right across the street from McDonald's, then the owners are saying it's not them. You know, they have, they have the machine where it's measuring the decibels, but then the officers, you know, some I'm not sure who, and I'm not trying to place blame or imply anything, but there seems to be two different sides of the story where the owner of the of the nightclub is saying they're following the regulations based on what is ordinance regarding the decibels that are required. And then the officer saying it is not. So I'm just wondering how that's gonna potentially affect these business owners. And then a lot of the times the issues that I'm seeing is that right after folks are coming out of the nightclub, they're congregating at McDonald's. They're staying parked there with their loud music. So I could see how this ordinance could attack those issues. I'm just wondering how this could potentially affect business owners within the nightclub scene.

Having personally responded to plenty of venues, nightclubs, restaurants that do have not only live music, but also just regular speakers, I'll tell you what my suggestion has been. And it has worked with probably... to win 99% of the venues that I've been to and address the owners. Hey, close the door. That's it. That's common sense.

I agree with you. But there's not a ticket in between. No, absolutely. When you give out the ticket, that's when you need fat. Because that's when you go to court. You use common sense.

That's 100%. So to make an arrest, and I'm going to be a law enforcement geek right now, but I am going to tell you what probable cause is.

That's the key word.

Probable cause. Probable cause is trustworthy facts or inferences that will lead a reasonable person to believe that more likely than not, a crime has been or will be committed. That is what probable cause is. Now I'm going to dumb it down as much as I can. Probable cause is 51%. 51% certainty. From your point of view. No, that's the law.

That's from your point of view.

No, sir.

What about the other 49%? What do you mean?

Exactly. No, no, I didn't get your question. I apologize.

No, what about the other 49%?

So 51% makes it more likely than not.

Yeah, but what about the other 49%?

It's still more likely than not. But what about the other 49%? I didn't make it, sir.

It's still... As a police officer, you need to understand that this body, when we create the law... I understand that we create the law for the people that violate the law. But those ones that violate the law, we as a community, we have to have the resources to be able to prove that that person violated the law. And it's not just subjective. It is not based on what I observed. If you go to court and say, I observed this person doing such and such, you need more than that.

You may not. And the probable cause is the key. Again, I think we're kind of really convoluted. That's the job of the court system. That's not the job of the police department. Everything the police officer does is not gospel. That's why we have trials. That's why we have juries. That's why we have judges. That's why we have clerks.

And that's why you have city counselors that protect the people. But... That's why you have city councilors that protect the people as well. Protect the people from what? Yes.

I don't understand.

From every portion of society. We need to be fair before we create the law because the law is the guidance that is going to be used at the court of law to be able to say, this person did this and this person did that and violate the law.

I get it. If you feel that this... Again, it's your power to vote whichever your way. If you feel this is overstepping and giving too much power to the police, that's the right example.

The only thing that I said that this ordinance should have is not be subjective to an observation. It should be a meter. That's the only thing I've said.

I appreciate that's your opinion.

Councillor Blunt. Thank you, and so I have a parliamentary point, and then I have a couple of questions. Parliamentary point, the attorney was right. The council president, by our rules, rule four, should not be expressing his opinion. Any council president, it says here, may express his opinion on any subject under debate only by leaving the chair, and in such case, he shall not resume the chair while the question is pending. Council president you talked about your opinions on decibels on probable cause and went back and forth about what your opinion was regarding the role of the council There were several things I would encourage you in the future to please Relinquish we want to hear your opinions relinquish to chair the gavel as our rules dictate. That's number one number two the I Wanted two scenarios on noise the noise that we hear is where I get calls from are like neighbor noise. There's a loud music, there's a party, there's something going. I don't get the two in the afternoon birthday party calls. I get the 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, it's really loud, I'm trying to get to sleep, that's one. And the second is, these cars are going through my neighborhood, the speakers are blaring, the mopeds and the motorcycles are revving. and we've got this issue regarding not only the music, but then the muffler is spit-firing in the back purposely, and it's causing all this noise. So now with this, if we pass this thing, tell me how this law is applicable, and what would we see from the police department based on the two scenarios I just presented to you?

Vehicles and houses, let's say. So I'll start with the noise coming from the motor vehicles. Obviously, we've all seen it. We all understand that it's a very prevalent issue here in the city. Currently, if you cite under the Chapter 90, you know, Chapter 90 covers motor vehicle law. If you cite under Chapter 90, it's a $35 citation. Quite frankly, you know, it's... I'll pay it and keep playing my music. if you cite under the city ordinance is obviously a lot more substantial tell you from my personal experience you know i i was more likely to cite somebody without what uh... without with uh... noise coming from a vehicle particularly the mufflers that was telling my pet peeve i use the current the current uh... uh... ordinance to my advantage i would tell people, I'm going to give you a citation, or you could bring me that vehicle with a silencer attached to the muffler. And most people would. Officers do exercise common sense, and they exercise common sense all the time to simply get rid of the problem. Our job is really a reality. We don't want to be society's hammer. We actually want to go ahead and educate. However, society does have to have a hammer. and we are the most visible arm of government and that's why these things land on us so that's that's that's as it pertains to the to the vehicles. And it also pertains to just about every scenario that you could come up with. An officer is going to put eyes, ears on the situation and make a common sense ruling on what happens and on what his police action will be. Sometimes the best police action is just simply having a conversation with somebody. Sometimes the best police action is a citation. Sometimes the best police action is an arrest.

So that's fine. I also have a question regarding that. Do you keep track of these incidents where you use common sense, where someone has used... Someone has come by and they did a converter on the muffler, for example, the silencer, excuse me, on the muffler, and they worked that out. Or if someone else, you just said, hey, turn that thing down, you're way too loud, they go, I'm so sorry, yeah, you're right, I'll turn it down, they turn it down. Are you keeping track of those individuals? Because what happens if you stop them or somebody else stops them again and the problem persists?

So, I mean, to look it up, it will be all anecdotal, but every single interaction that an officer has, it's logged onto the system, and the outcome of the interaction is also logged. So whether it be consular plant got a... A WARNING, OR COUNSELOR LEPLANT WAS ADVISED, OR COUNSELOR LEPLANT WAS CITED. ALL OF THAT IS TYPICALLY LOGGED.

I WANT TO MOVE TO THE HOUSES IN A SECOND. WHEN THAT HAPPENS, I'M VERY CURIOUS, SO WHEN YOU LOG THAT IN, SO LET'S SAY COUNSELOR LEPLANT IS BACK OUT TONIGHT, HE'S GOT HIS GUNS AND ROSES ON IT, 90 DECIBELS, THANK YOU FOR NODDING, THOSE WHO KNOW WHAT GNR IS, AND I'M BLASTING IT OUT LOUD, RIGHT? Are you going to go ahead and type in Mark LaPlante and just say, oh, my God, yeah, he had Def Leppard on a month ago and whatever. You know, the loud music was, this is his third time we've stopped him now for loud stuff. Do you have that handled? Do you check that at all?

No, I don't have that capability. Our system shows us the history to an address, the history to an address. So let's say, for example, so I know you said stopped as implying a motor vehicle stopped. Yeah, yeah. No, I don't have that capability. Okay. However, when I am dispatched to a call at a residence or a business, they could tell me, been there X amount of times, and this is what we've been there for.

That's a good segue. So my last question, because I want to keep this practical. Pragmatically, what happens at a phone call? Disorder, loud music, whatever. You get that email. lives loud music somewhere in the area. What happens? Now you've got this new law. What's going to happen that's different?

Well, an officer is going to go. Nothing is going to happen that's different. Okay. Everything is going to be exactly the same way with the exception. With the fine.

The fine.

Well, a fine that you have to either A, pay, B, appeal to the city or to a magistrate over at the courts. And by the way, there's also two avenues of appeal. If you don't like the decision that's made at the city level when you appeal, you could also appeal it to the magistrate. So you remove the city of Lawrence or any subjectivity out of the city's hand and a magistrate that works obviously for the courts gets to make the decision on whether there is veracity and basis of knowledge to what the officer is in fact saying. So there is somebody watching the watches.

Is this is what you just said is that's based on the law or that's based on what?

It's a state law? No, it's in the ordinance.

No, I mean, because what happened when you go to court, they send you over to the municipality to be able to hear that ticket at the municipal level first. That's at least on the housing ticket, on the housing court ticket. So if this is any difference, I mean, what court is going to be hearing these tickets?

No, so it would be a magistrate, a clerk magistrate over at the Lawrence District Court. So this is the appeal process for the noise citation. You could obviously, you receive your citation, you could say, yes, I did that. I'm just going to pay it. So, boom, all right, you know, you paid the citation. The second one is you could appeal the citation to the city, right?

And who is going to do it at the city level?

So, that I don't know. Ah, you see. Well, I mean, that one is not on me to know, sir. I know, I understand, I understand.

That's your 40, officer.

It's going to be on the same as housing?

Same as the housing tickets? Same as housing tickets. Yeah, that's what I thought.

So that's why when you go to court for the housing tickets, they send you back, say you need to, the city needs to hear that first. Okay. And then that's on the 40, 41?

40 you that's on the 40 you and then essentially that somebody going to make a determination on that ticket so somebody most likely you won't go to court so somebody completely outside of that um you know of that interaction that initial interaction that yielded a citation they will hear the matter here in the city hall and make a determination let's say that you don't like what that decision was at that point in time you could also go ahead and appeal to the courts and the courts which are completely even further removed from the situation, and they'll make a determination.

The reason why I said previously that 51 is not necessarily, that was from your opinion, 51 is not necessarily a probable cause is because it's a lot more than that. To a lot of people, that might work, but to others, that 51% maybe is above 60%. And what I mean by that is that other factor that I don't want to say it, but racial motivation is a factor that is in fact been proven that depending on where you are, here most likely not, but depending on where you are, So that's why when people were telling me that, you know, 51%, not necessarily. It's a lot more than that. So it depends where you are.

It could be 60, 70. I do have the benefit of working for a police department, for a minority-majority department.

No, but I mean, that doesn't apply quite much here in Lawrence. I got it. But I mean, even in Massachusetts, not necessarily.

Okay. Councilor Reyes. Thank you. Thank you for review the ordinance and dividing.

I love what I see. I understood what

Maybe my neighbor is not bothering me, but I'm bothering another resident. What is the way to implement the new ordinance to inform to the person who has high music, for example? Because right now, when you're visiting through our ordinance, it's through observation, because you go there, you inform. and then you decide if they have a verbal warning or they receive a ticket or something like that. What is the difference for the new ordinance when you let them know what is the next step? Because when we implement the new ordinance, you can inform we have a new ordinance and specify what is the point they need to take into consideration or what is the problem.

So as you guys have probably noticed, under the leadership of Chief Aguilar, the Lawrence Police Department has been significantly more active in social media in attempts to keep the public informed. And the plan is if we do actually, if it does in fact pass, to just do a media blast through all of the outlets that are accessible to us. to let the public know that this ordinance is in play. I think that we've been wildly successful in the use of social media to the point that awards have in fact been received. So we would use that tool to reach out to the masses and hopefully gain some compliance.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councillor Esparza and Levy.

Thank you, Council President. Well, I think so that we haven't covered so many things right now, but one thing that we had a very bad winter last year, okay? And I received a lot of complaints around the area, the prosperity principle, the area around the clinic and the hospital regarding the truck. When they use some kind of truck that has some beeper, beep, when they are picking the snow. And when they getting back, and also the other troll that my baby was taking the snow, was dumping the snow on the other troll and that clip. And people say, oh, I was not able to sleep during the whole night because this troll don't let me to sleep. At one point, I had to call one day the police because I had somebody calling me at 3 o'clock in the morning because they couldn't sleep regarding cleaning and picking the snow.

I understand. So obviously that's one of those situations that it's, you know, you know, no, it's a, it's a greater, it's a greater good situation. It's actually outlined within the ordinance. It is the greater good. I would love to let you sleep, but I would love also for you to be able to get up and go to work in the morning. And if I don't clean the snow, I, you know, it's not going to happen. Common sense. Common sense.

But you see how common sense, how this situation can bother people?

No, I agree with you one million percent on that. And that's why we're putting a neutral party.

You know what I mean? That's a safety backup alarm that she's referring to.

Correct. But that's why we're putting a neutral party, somebody that has no force in the race, to ultimately take a look at the situation and make a determination.

Excuse me. Yes. Through you, Chancellor. They have to clean this now because they need a parking for the next day for the people who come to the hospital, for the people who's been working. It's a very bad situation, and I understand. They say me, inclusive of I got a lot of pictures, I had a video, so at 3 o'clock in the morning calling me, look at the video, I can't sleep right now because these people are cleaning the puppy, and I was not able to sleep.

Right. And it's unfortunate that people... That's not music.

That's not music. It's something that has to be done, and that has to be... Right.

It's a necessity. It's a necessity. Exactly.

Are we going to find the clinic, the hospital?

No, no, no. It's detailed within the ordinance. That is an allowed activity. Obviously, again, under the guise of, and I think we could all agree, for the greater good. Thank you.

I'm going to be brief. I don't want to speak for my colleagues, but I think it's safe to say that we all, or I am, I believe in the ordinance itself. I just think that there's bits and pieces of it where it's causing a debate. Personally for me, I, again, I could understand why the issue with the whole decibel is like if you're gonna have it in the ordinance, but it's not really, you know, upon, upon implementing or the procedural process as an officer when you're going about in conducting business in addressing this concern, it makes me wonder then what's the point of adding the decibels if that's not gonna be used to make the measurements. But then I understand the need to have these measurements to define what is considered allowed. One of my questions I want to take advantage given the opportunity I have having the floor right now is, is the union involved when creating this ordinance as that may create some sort of change to Why are you looking at me like that?

There's no change. Okay. Okay. No, I was just wondering. It's not a union issue. Okay. I was just wondering. I didn't know where you were going and I just was confused. I'm sorry.

No, I was just wondering when it comes to any changes to process and procedures or adding any extra responsibilities or changes to, you know, what an officer does. I was wondering if the union gets involved in approving and being on board with that.

I think we have the right person for that here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maybe answer that question.

Adding a new device.

Oh, sorry. Adding a new device may be a problem. Oh, yes. Carol Garcia, personnel director, 200 Common Street. Go ahead. Adding a new device might be a problem. That's where that would require impact bargaining because you're adding a new device, so. That may be a change in work. Okay. I mean, the union has grieved even adding a, so for evidence.com, which is widely known throughout the United States, it's what they use in order to upload all of the evidence. Most defense attorneys know about it. It's called axon.com. You can see it probably on your Facebooks. The unions grief that.

Okay.

Because they had to place it into their cell phones. So adding a new device maybe to their, you know, their, what do you call that? Duty belt. Their duty belt may be an issue. Okay. So that would require, again, that would require impact bargaining.

All right. I'm just going to put it out there. I'm considering a motion to table just because I'm not, I don't want to do away with the ordinance, but it just seems like we could be here for another hour. having this discussion and obviously I don't want us to rush on something that is truly important to the community. And I really wish I could say yes right now, because I understand the need. for it and I want to give you guys all the tools necessary in order to make sure that the city is heading in the right direction in being able to address long-pending concerns that we have not been able to do nothing at this point and I think We're in the middle of summer, so I know the importance of having this approved immediately. But I also, again, I feel like I need to do my due diligence and not rushing on something that potentially I don't have the opportunity to change. So I'm going to put it out there, a motion to table to continue this conversation.

There's a motion to table in front of us.

Second.

Properly second. All in favor, please go to the roll.

Councilor Gonzalez is noted as absent. Councilor Miguel?

Yes.

Councilor Mamo? Yes. Councilor Invante?

Yes.

Councilor Del Rosario? Yes. I'm sorry. Councilor Reyes. I was looking at the online people. I apologize. Councilor Reyes? Yes. Councilor Del Rosario already said yes. Councilor? Yes. No.

No.

Okay. Council vice president, yes, council president motion carries.

Yes.

Thank you. Can I say one sure one thing if you don't mind in playing into the whole common sense thing just imagine yourselves at your favorite restaurant and they happen to have outdoor dining and you're sitting there and a car drives fast. You, based on your observations, you could tell when a car is going at a speed that's greater than reasonable if you're standing there and you look at it. That's basically what, that's what we're arguing here.

Thank you. We can have a conversation over there. Of course. All right, have a good night. I'll give you the answer on that one. Please, thank you.

Thank you.

All right, let's move on. I think that councilors are going to open up the floor for Ed for any other item that you believe we might take first. We have similar situations around the floor when it comes to specifics. So, councilors, any suggestions? If it's not, then we go top of that up. To be a couple that are in public hearing. I don't want me to know surprise six. We also have a president.

Yes. I will suggest item 265 26.

That's out of where.

Out of personal committee.

All right. Personal committee. Madam Madam Chair, you want to present or you want the vice chair to present those items out of the personal committee?

I would appreciate it if the vice chair can present.

Madam Vice Chair, Councilor Espresso and living.

Thank you.

So item 265. 265, okay.

Okay, so item 265, 26 is the appointment of Valencia Tanahiri to the conservation commission in Guacende to the food council with favor recommendation. And I make it as a formal motion.

There's a motion in front of us, properly second? Second.

Just for the record, the candidate's name is Tenari Valencia. We did change it on the agenda for this meeting. She's here, and I just want to give her that courtesy of getting her name in the correct order. Tenari? Tenari.

Donnery up just you know we just want to welcome you to the city to the city Council. We here to potentially ask you some questions and if you can introduce yourself and tell us your address.

My name is an idea and yeah, I just is 5 Brookfield Street. And then I I'm here because I applied to be part of the Conservation Commission. I applied to be part of it because I really believe in its mission. And I'm a dedicated member of Lawrence who has cared about Lawrence growing up here and everything. And I am also very committed to protecting the environment and the wildlife and learning as much as I can about how to do that.

Mr. Counselors, any questions? Councillor West, President Libby.

I think that we did a lot of questions to her during the personnel committee. So she did great. I know that she loves to be with her grandfather and taking care of the garden and doing tomatoes. Is that what you like to do? Yes. That you like it? So I think that thank you for trying to get in this commission. Thank you. I think that she's going to be a great asset for that.

Any questions? Just want to warn you, it's a very huge responsibility to be part of that conservation committee.

Yes, I'm ready for that responsibility.

Thank you. At such a young age, I appreciate that you decided to serve.

Any questions?

Right. At this point, I'll call the question. Madame Clerk, please call the roll.

I'm going to start with Council of Plaint. And I apologize if you stepped out of the room. So I'm going to note Council of Plaint is absent for the vote. Councilor Del Rosario? Yes. Councilor Reyes?

Yes.

Councilor Infante?

Yes.

Councilor Malmo? Yes. Councilor Miguel?

Yes.

Councilor Gonzalez is noted as absent. Councilor Vice President? Yes. Councilor President?

Yes, motion carries, congratulations.

Thank you so much.

All right, personal committee. So do you, okay.

Okay, I don't.

Your mic.

Item 205.26 is Carmen Garcia King that was recommended for the airport commission. It was sent to the food council for withdrawal and I make as a formal motion. Second.

There's a motion to withdraw, properly seconded. Now discussion. I hear none. Madame Claire, please call the roll.

Councillor Gonzalez.

Councillor Gonzalez is noted as absent. Councillor Miguel. Yes. Councillor Marmo.

Yes.

Councilor Infante?

Yes.

Councilor Reyes? Yes. Councilor Del Rosario?

Yes.

Councilor LaPlante? Yes. Councilor Vice President Levy? Yes. Council President Rodriguez?

Yes. Motion carries. Item 231, 26.

Item 231.26 is that Roeville Blackwell that was sent to the commission for the LRA was sent as a committee report and I make it as a formal motion.

There is a motion to accept the committee report. I can't hear a second. Properly second. Discussion on the committee report? I hear none. Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Councilman, yes, also Del Rosario. Yes, Councilor Reyes, yes, concert funding. Yes, Council of Marmo. On the committee for yes, constantly young, yes, Council of Gonzales is noted as absent Council vice president.

Yes, Council president, yes, motion carries. Council was the motion to approve this motion to approve. Can I hear a second?

No. Second.

Properly second discussion. Yes.

Okay. So one of the things that I, President, to you is like we were advised not to take any item regarding the LRA at this time while we are with core issues right now regarding the LRA.

Any other questions?

Council President?

Council LaPlante.

Through you, I'd like to know the source of that. Who gave this advice to us, and does that apply to this particular vote?

Talking with the city attorney. Oh, can you come to the front, please?

No, that was not the advice from the city attorney. That was not the advice from the city attorney. The email he sent.

The email? Okay.

Yeah, he did that was not that base. He's only only sent one email and that was the opposite. But I mean that's OK. Any other questions, councillor. Yes. Your mic.

Thank you. I would love to see your opinion on this matter because Councilor Levy received from you advice to not voting in favor or denying or something like that. I want to know why.

I was asked if there was any conflict with this board voting on appointments to the LRA while there was a lawsuit on it. I sent you all an email which said there is no conflict. You can take the vote whenever you want.

Thank you for clarification.

All right. Any other questions? I have a comment.

I'm not going to be supporting either one of these LRAs. And very frankly, it has nothing to do with the qualifications, nothing to do with that. Right now, I don't have a lot of confidence with the redevelopment authority as it relates to the city council. I like to see some things fleshed out first, figure out what's going on before I take a vote on it. And until such time, until I get confidence and build that kind of trust, I will not be supporting either one of the candidates this evening for this nomination.

Chancellor, let me go to the first round first.

I'll have to agree with my colleague on the concerns that he just brought up because I share the same sentiments. I feel like I know we're not in an executive session, but I'm curious for myself and along, I'm pretty sure my colleagues are also curious to know as to what is the update as to what has been pending in terms of the legalities between the LRA and city council. So until I get some sort of clarity, i don't see how appointing members to this committee um would seem productive um and so that's my stance thank you so much any other questions thank you for you i mean i'm in agreement with all my colleagues also uh council president we need to be very careful

With information that we share, if it wasn't shared by the city attorney, they say it in public, but the city attorney advises some of us, which it wasn't true. We need to be careful with that. And also, if we had a secondary section, we got to be careful with the information that we're putting out to the public too. That's my point. I'm in agreement with my colleagues.

Thank you very much. We're not going into a secret session at all. I mean, that's not something that we do as easy, and it was not even posted, so that's not nothing that's being questioned about. Any other questions, councillors? At this time, Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Let's start with Councillor Gonzalez, who is noted as absent. Councillor Miguel?

No.

Councillor Marmo? No. Councillor Infante?

No. No.

Councilor is yes. Considere's area.

No.

Consulate plant now. Council vice president, no. Council president, no. We should feel much of us.

I don't 266 26.

I don't to 60 to say it wasn't it to the full council as a committee report or so for. And I make yes, the former motion.

There's a motion to accept the committee report. Properly second discussion on the committee report. I am not going to please call the roll.

Council plant.

Yes.

Council dollars area. Yes. Council areas. Yes. Concerning funding. Yes. Council of Marmo? Yes. Council of Miguel? Yes. Council of Gonzalez is noted as absent. Council of Vice President Levy? Yes. Council of President Rodriguez?

Yes. Motion carries. Council, what's the motion? Motion to approve. There's a motion to approve. Second. Item 26626, properly second. Discussion? I hear no questions. Madam Clerk, please call the vote.

Council President.

Councilor Rosario. Councilor Infante.

Thank you, can you remind me what, can you read the title of the doc, please?

Yes, this is the appointment of Rolando De Castro to the Lawrence Development Authority.

Thank you.

Madam Clerk, if there is no questions, please call the roll.

This is to accept the nomination. Councilor Gonzalez, noted as absent. Councilor Miguel. No. Council Mambo? No. Councilor Infante?

No.

Councilor Reyes? Yes. Councilor Del Rosario?

No.

Council LaPlante?

No.

Council Vice President Levy? No. Council President Rodriguez?

No. Motion fails. Item 264.26.

Okay, I don't 264 20. I don't 264 20 see if the things you're all from Seattle media. For the temporary appointment of a director of the all feel the planning and the betterment for 90 days so it wasn't that all the food council as a committee report and I make us a formal motion.

There's a motion in front of us probably second for the committee report this question. There is none. Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Councillor LaPlante? Yes. Councillor Del Rosario? Yes. Councillor Reyes? Yes. Councillor Infante?

Yes.

Councillor Marble? Yes. Councillor Miguel?

Yes.

Councillor Gonzalez? No, it is absent. Councillor Levy? Yes. I'm sorry, Council Vice President Levy, thank you. Council President Rodriguez?

Yes, motion carries. Councilors, what's the motion? Motion to approve. Second. There is a motion to approve. Properly second. Discussion? Discussion. Councilor Rosario.

Thank you. Through you, Council President. In my years at the City Council, I never seen that we deny a 90-day extension. And I have a question for you, Councilors, that have been there longer than me. Has anybody before my turn had been denied the 90-day extension by any means, any departments or anybody else? Has it been denied ever? I mean, the time that I've been there, nobody has been denied a 90-day to all the transition. It's finding somebody else to be in that position. Not just this one, any position. But you guys have been there longer than me. Has it been denied before? And if you guys know... Please, I would like to know for the people that have been there before me.

You've been here for 22 years.

The only one that's coming to mind, but I'm not sure how that it was with one of the previous ISD directors. Um, that was one that was about closer controversial or didn't go through the nineties and just kind of went on. So for some reason I've taken in my head, but I'm not remembering anything else.

There's um, any other questions? Thank you. No problem. Any other questions, councillors? Any questions to the candidate?

Thank you. This is not for the candidate. I don't know if there's anyone there from the administration that can answer this, but I recently read an interview that the candidate did with Noticias de Valle, or in English, The Valley News. And within that interview, he stated that when the acting opportunity was presented to him, he did mention to the mayor to act on this position and to post the position. And that was the advice that he gave to the mayor, according to this interview. I would like to know from someone within the administration, why within these 90 days, because 90 days is a long time, why did the mayor choose not to take action on this position, knowing that it is a temporary position at the moment?

Anybody from the administration? Just introduce yourself.

Santiago Matias, 32 Adams, Lawrence, Massachusetts. I be, first, thank you for the opportunity to be here. When I be chief of staff for City of Lawrence, acting chief of staff, for first time, I bring here the chief of police who was acting, do the problems that we have in the city. And he was here three times. Not only one time. He was here two times because the law says he needs to be here every 90 days. If I do it with him, I ask him to the mayor that I have to be here. You got the choice to say yes, to say no, but I'm going to comply with the law. Mostly. Mostly, I come here. A lot of people take more time They stand like six months, nine months, one year. I know people who've been five, six years. I think. But the law says 90 days. We have to be here in front of you. And that's why I'm here.

Any questions, councillors? Council President, I still have the floor. Yeah, let's allow Councillor Infante. Councillor Infante.

Thank you. Thank you for your response, Mr. Matias, but that's not answering my question. And I understand we've had other situations. I found it interesting that that advice came from the candidate for the acting um individual so i i'm curious to know why didn't the the mayor take that advice and i'm seeing that we don't have anyone from the mayoral office there to be able to answer this question well you are you telling me about something that publishing in in facebook No, it was an interview that you did with a media outlet.

Listen, I want to make sure that there was somebody who called me and tried to ask me questions. There's no one in the interview that I give to the people. I sit down, try to answer things like questions. The real thing is I've been in that position for more than 90 days now. And I try to do the best that I can because I've lived in Lawrence for 35 years. I know Lawrence like you guys. You know me. I don't be, you know, somebody who come in that nobody know who this is. I've been here. I try to do the best that I can. I tell the mayor that it's good that he's posted the position. Not because I don't got the skills, or I don't got what the position said, and what they asking for. Because I got the love for this city, more than everybody. And I know this city, every position that I take in that city, I make my point, I make sure everybody know that I've been there. For example, you asking discussion about one ordinance about noises. I've been working with a zoning task force. Noises, it's not the same as when you got noises in the park, when you got noises in the street in a neighborhood. How many ordinance the police have with problems? Who knows? You know, we need to stop doing ordinance, you know, by one, by one. We need to do something to correct all ordinance, all ordinance that we have. That's something that I've been working in 90 days. You know, I've been here because we're going to moving in the 21st, bring the offices from 360, Marymount, to 255, SS3. is a building city. A building, this building belong to the city. We don't want to pay there. We got better services for the community, for the citizen. I don't know if I answered your question, Councilor.

No, no, but thank you. I do want to make it clear, Council President, and to my colleagues and everyone present and watching at home, that my question is not related to you, Mr. Matias, but I was curious about that advice and curious about the mayor's response to that. And that was where my questioning was coming from.

Thank you, Council President. I sit down with you, Counsel, you remember, and I'm telling you that we're going to be here 90 days because, you know, I can't be by myself here. He has to send me here. And I'm here. Like the law said, you know, said to you, you think that I deserve to be until somebody take that position or something like that.

All right. Counselor Infante, you have any other questions?

I'm not, I'm also, thank you, Council President.

Thank you. Councilor, Councilor Vice President Levy?

Thank you.

It's not, Mr. Matias, it's not like, it's not regarding you, but I'm going to read something in here. It's like the... The ordering of the temporary appointments, so that people can hear what it says, is ordering 02.04.081. A, no person appointed by the mayor to fill a vacant city office on a temporary basis PERSON TO SECTION 4.4 OF THE CITY CHART CHARGED IN AN ADDITIONAL CAPACITY FOR MORE THAN 90 DAYS. RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE MORE THAN 90 DAYS. THEY HAVEN'T SENT IT TO YOU BEFORE. THE 90-DAY PERIOD MAY BE EXTENDED BY BOTH OF THE CITY COUNCIL FOR UP TO AN ADDITIONAL 90 DAYS WITH OR WITHOUT THE REQUEST OF THE MAYOR. So that is the first sign that we omitted. B, all vacant positions filed on a temporary basis, person to the city charter, shall be posted and advertised within the 90 day of the first temporary appointment. So on the first 90 day, this position was supposed to be appointed. unless such time is extended by both of the City Councils with or without the request of the Mayor. C. Access A vote to extend the temporary appointment as described in paragraph A above, any such temporary appointment person to section 4.4 of the city charter shall expire at midnight on the 90th day. Any such person temporarily appointed shall revert to the employment status and pay raise such person here immediately prior to the temporary employment. If the appointee was not an employee prior to the temporary appointment, then that person shall revert to a non-employment status. The city council may at its sole discretion allow the appointee to continue in the position until a suitable individual is hired. On the 91st day following the temporary appointment portion 2, section 4.4 of the city charter, With no further action, temporary appointment or final appointment by the Mayor, the City Council shall authorize the Personnel Director to post and advertise the position, receive application, certify applicant and submit to the Council. For selection and appointment, the five highest certified applicant. The city council shall select the employee and individual from the pool of applicants within 30 days. So that is what the ordinance says. So right now, so you are over the 90 days.

the process of going through committee and stuff like that. He's here today. And that was close enough to the 90 days. I mean, I think it's fair. I knew they went up, but I mean, he's already here.

Yeah.

In the process of the process of the committee.

Yeah, we are on the process right now. It's up to the committee, it's up to the council.

As I said, as I said when I started, I know that that's why when the chief of police, active chief of police being here, You congratulate the administration in that time because for the first time somebody was here in 90 days, three times in a row. And I'm here. You know, I know everything you read there is the law. And you said something right. It's your right to say yes or no. You know, somebody asked me, like, you have to call every councilor and try to get the vote. I said, no. I'm going to be there looking you in your eyes and telling you, you know, like, I've been there working hard for the city of Lawrence.

Thank you, Council President.

If you're not going to love you still have a question. Yes, no, but I mean you still have a question. Yes, I love it.

Thank you. Yes, okay, I understand what you say, but are we going to continue doing the same thing like it's talking to the past and continuing to the future doing the same the same the same thing. Are we going to continue in overpassing the ordinance? So why is the reason why we have an ordinance in here and we are not complying with that? That is my question. That is the way that I see, you know, that we continue doing all because that happened 20 years, 10 years ago. And we're going to continue. So the same problem happened, and we're making some modification, inclusive of not too long ago, to this ordinance with another case that we have in here.

We all do respect. I know the mayor, the director of the Department of HR is here. I want to tell you how many times I was there trying to They sent me here. Respecting the law. She's here and she can... Let's hear her answer.

Good evening again. I can, I'm so sorry. It's late. Carol Garcia, personnel director. I can say that Mr. Matias did send me at least one or two emails that I can pull up right now asking to have his name sent down. And he told me on a number of occasions, hey, please don't forget to send my name down for the 90 day extension. So I can stand here and say that.

Okay, through you, Council President.

Councilor Levy, Councilor Espresso and Levy.

Okay, but do you remember that when we did the interview to Mr. Matias, the first thing that we asked, are you gonna send it? this position to be published? And you say, yes.

Yes.

So are you committing the same problem? So in reality, you're committing the same problem because we are not doing... Let her answer your first question about the publishing.

So we actually received the requisition, which is the document that's required prior to posting the position literally right before we came down here today from the mayor's office. So tomorrow morning, the position will be posted. There you go. My confidential secretary did it without even letting me know. Even better.

So the position is posted, Councillor Levy.

Okay, so that is great, the position is posted because that is one of the first questions that was made by Councillor Miguel regarding if we're going to post it or not, this position before coming in here. Okay.

Council LeBlanc.

I was just going to suggest that my colleague, the Vice President, her questions are probably best asked. Not of the applicant. It's not his job to do that. Someone else has got to send his name. He hasn't sent his own name down. It's got to come from the Mayor's office or the Mayor's designee. So that's the right person. And thank you to the City Personnel Director for the clarification. Let me just say this about Mr. Matias. I... I... I admire him and I respect him and I think highly of him. I've been watching his work, not only in the mayor's office, but most recently as the acting position. And there is a level of confidence that I have that he will do a good job for the remaining 90 days. I think that this council should approve it, should extend it. we should see and we'll be looking forward to seeing what the what the applications are for a full-time a permanent excuse me a permanent position and so i'll be curious to see what that provides to us but for this short term 90 days i feel confident that he will steady the ship and continue to row until we get that permanent position so i'll be voting in support this evening

Thank you. I want to say thank you to Mr. Mattia, because the mayor had the right to choose automatically the 90 days, and you decided to come from us. I want to say thank you for that decision, and I want to make an echo in my colleagues. You did an incredible job. Thank you.

Any other questions, councillors? On that click, please call the roll.

Councillor Gonzalez is noted as absent. Councillor Miguel?

No.

Councillor Marmo? No. Councillor Infante?

No.

Councillor Reyes? Yes. Councillor Del Rosario?

Yes.

Council LaPlante?

Yes.

Council Levy? No. Council President?

No. What's the count?

Three in favor and one, two, three, four, five, five against. It's a fail. Motion fails.

All right, going on top of the agenda, let's go to order and let's go to public hearings. Item 189.26. Madame Claire, please read the notice. 189.26.

Tim.

So you can go home. I'm sorry.

motion to pass them.

It's a motion to pass the second. I'm not going to school at all.

Council of plan yes. Council of those are you.

Yes.

Councilor is yes concert hunting.

Yes.

Um, council mama. Yes. Council Miguel.

Yes.

Counselor. Um, Gonzalez is noted as absent council vice president. Yes. Council president.

Yes.

I'm looking for one 89. I really don't, but y'all just the French is so small. I got it. Thank you for your patience.

Let me just clarify something. Carol, your item, the 275, that's to order a public hearing.

275-26?

Yeah. Yes. That's to order a public hearing. Do you have any other?

I'm so sorry, yes, and 276-26.

Okay.

Both to order a public hearing.

I'm sorry?

Those are both to order a public hearing?

I'm now it's in front of you and it came from. As a many holes or in the it's a proposal or didn't you need to all of you.

I would defer to you I'm not sure what the order is yeah, it's door for me or so. I think you.

So we've got this one is I don't want to stop the mother.

So we're going to continue with the order. No, we're going to go to the top of the ordinance, which is item 189.26. Yeah, let's see.

So, document number 189-26 is the amending ordinance 01.16.150 of the Municipal Hearing Officer, be it ordained that the City of Lawrence, that the revised ordinances of the City of Lawrence are hereby further amended by adding the following subsection F to section OF THE MUNICIPAL CODE, MUNICIPAL HEARING OFFICER, F, INDEMNIFICATION. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY ORDINANCES, TITLE II, ADMINISTRATION AND PERSONNEL, SECTION 2.04.150, THE CITY SHALL INDEMNIFY THE MUNICIPAL HEARING OFFICER TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY from personal financial loss and expenses, including legal fees and costs, if any, in the amount not to exceed $1 million, rising out of any claim, action, award, compromise, settlement, or judgment by reason of intentional tort or by reason of any act or mission which shall constitute a violation of the civil rights of the person under... federal or state law if such employee or official at the time of such intentional tort, such act or omission was acting within the scope of his or her official duties and employment. No such employee or official shall be Indemnified under the section for the violation of any such civil rights if he acted in gross negligence will for a malicious manner. Upon the initiation of such a claim, the officer shall notify the mayor, the city council president in writing. The city attorney shall, upon notice of the officer, recommend the outside council be retained, and such recommendation is accepted by the mayor and the city council. The city attorney shall retain outside council subject to the approval of the mayor and the city council. The invoices for the City Attorney's fees, expenses, and costs shall be submitted for approval prior to payment of the Mayor and the City Council and shall be paid in due course unless either the Mayor or the City Council determines that said fee, expenses, and costs are unreasonable and so notifies the office in writing. In the event of such notification, such fees, expenses, and costs shall be submitted to the Massachusetts Bar Association for arbitration, which shall be binding. Nothing in this section shall preclude the payment of legal fees during the pendency of any claim. If, however, it is determined by the city acting through the city council as the conclusion of the action that the action of the employee were grossly negligent, willful, or malicious, so as to preclude indemnification by the city, then the employee or the official shall reimburse the city for all costs and fees incurred by the city in defense of said claim. Persons wishing to be heard shall be afforded the opportunity.

Public hearing is now open. Anybody from the public that wishes to speak? Public hearing is now closed. Councillors, what's the motion? Motion to approve. There's a motion to approve. Second. Properly second. Discussion. Discussion. Before we open for discussion, Attorney Houghton, do you have anything to offer?

Just a quick, Tim Houghton, city attorney. What we had was the situation, this is again, the Florida U officer, we've heard it tonight, this is the person that would hear appeals of all tickets. We had a candidate who is an attorney who applied for this position and was informed by his malpractice insurance that because it wasn't in his regular business, they would not cover him. So this is the provision that I have in my contract. It's a provision that covers all attorneys in the city of Lawrence. This person would technically not be an employee of the city of Lawrence, but it's an indemnification so that in their work as the FAUTIU officer, if there's any claim, the city would agree to indemnify against any costs.

It's probably three to four months now. Seriously. We had a candidate who had to withdraw. I do have another candidate that I'm trying to convince to apply because there's two groups of people.

that can do this job. One is attorneys, and the other is former fire chiefs, so you don't have to fall far down the rabbit hole to see who I'm thinking of to see if they want to take that position.

Why is it so difficult to get somebody?

First of all, for the most part, you're a lawyer or a fire chief that want to do this, come here for a couple hours every week. Most people aren't interested in it. They have their full-time jobs. This is a part-time, you know, couple hour a week thing. It's kind of a more of a thing that a retired attorney or somebody would do.

So, Attorney Hilton, this is part of another ordinance?

There is an ordinance for the municipal, yes. So this is subsection F. There's A, B, C, and D if you look at 1.16150.

Because usually when we add to an ordinance, we have the ordinance on top of it.

I can do that again. The city clerk and I have talked that the costs for running these ads are getting out of control. So I didn't want to add any more language that needed to go on a paper than absolutely necessary, but I could give you the, well, I can present you with the ordinance language too.

Usually what I'm saying is you can have it as part of the package, but not necessarily as part of the publication.

Understood.

Any questions, councillors? Is everybody familiar with what 40U means? Can you explain what 40U means?

40U is just a mass general law, so it's Mass General Law Chapter 40, Subsection U, which provides for an officer to hear appeals of tickets, whether they be by housing, whether they be for transportation, trash, for violation, noise violations, anything like that, that there has to be an appeal process. And the person that appeals to them, if they then disagree with that officer's decision, they can appeal to the district court. But without that officer, the tickets become unenforceable. They have to have a right of appeal.

And that was because of the city up on.

On the low back then like probably a year ago we were for for the longest time we had a retired fire chief we recently just had an attorney that did it for about 2 years and he just I decided to give it up so we're just trying to fill it at this point.

Any questions counselors. At this time, Madam Clerk, let's allow Councillor Malmo to come back. I will call the roll. Councillor Malmo.

Yes.

No, no, no, not me. Not yet. Yes.

Oh, no, no, no, still not. He just wants you back here so he can vote. He wants you back so he can vote. WHAT? THIS IS ON DOCUMENT NUMBER 189-26. I'M NOTING COUNSELOR GONZALEZ IS ABSENT. COUNSELOR MARMAL? YES. THERE YOU GO. COUNSELOR INFANTE? YES.

YES.

COUNCILOR REYES. YES. COUNCILOR DEL ROSARIO. YES. COUNCILOR LAPLANT. YES. COUNCIL VICE PRESIDENT LEVY. YES. COUNCIL PRESIDENT RODRIGUEZ.

YES, MOTION CARRIES.

COUNCILORS, I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU ONE POINT OF ORDER. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE AWARE OF IT.

people that were presented tonight you did not vote to table you voted to turn them down so those people cannot be presented for another year i just wanted to make sure we knew that very briefly i'm sorry to interrupt um pertaining to items the two items that i was just called on 275 26 and 276 26 i just confirmed in my notes and i confirmed with everyone on this side of the table it was not sent up for public hearing. What it was sent up was as a committee report. Pending Tim's legal opinion.

Yeah, we will present the committee report, and at some point, the next step is to order public hearing, because it's a new ordinance and a proposed change to an ordinance.

So I won't be heard today?

You don't have to. I mean, if you want to stay, of course, we're going to jump into those right now.

I wish I would have known that. I could have been at home with my kids.

No, I mean, you've been useful. I mean, on the previous item, on this item as well. Very useful.

All right. Thank you. Have a good night.

All right. Let's go on top of the end there and then we have happened and also.

Council president if we I'm not sure if I'm. If I am able to propose a lot of water. What item item to 6926 the naming of a park under construction on base the road. Madam chair ordinance.

Yeah, the manager of ordinance please item to 6926.

I don't to 69 to see if the of the naming the naming of the part on the construction on Bay State row of the Billy Robertson part. I was then that to the full time so we favor the commendation and I'm making us a formal motion.

There's a motion in front of us second properly second. Discussion council a plan. Billy Robertson Park.