Common Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening. The time is now 6:33. I will call the April 6, 2026 meeting of the Common Council, City of Lawrence, to order. Um, please rise and join us in the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, you guys have may be seated. Um, the next item on the agenda is roll call of members and the determination of quorum. Let the record reflect that we have eight counselors present and that we do have a quorum. This meeting has been properly noticed in accordance with Indiana's open door law and copies of the agenda are located at the back of the room. Also, citizens wishing to speak during citizens comments, if you could kindly use the signup sheet um that is also at the back by all of the um agendas. Um the next agenda item is comments of council members and special recognitions. Do we have any comments this evening?

Yes, Council Merur.

Uh, I have two things. First off, want to remind everyone that early voting starts April 25th and ends May 3rd. and want to point out that the Indianapolis Public Library, the Fort Ben branch is where the early voting will take place, not at the old Craig MSDLT on Sunnyside. It's a little confusing, so please make a note of that. And secondly, uh, at Jen Park near the den, the dog park, there are field toes and tenoria neglecta, which are the host flower for American painted lady butterflies. So, that's something to celebrate.

Thank you, councelor Merur. Any other comments? I do. Yes. Councelor Giles, I'd like to give a personal uh kind of shout out to our DPW department, street department. Um, I can see I've been uh walking our neighborhoods and I've seen the guys out the team out working hard filling out potholes in the community. So, uh, appreciate the the work that they've been doing. Yeah. Thank you, Councelor Giles. Councelor Wells. Yes.

Yeah. Councelor Wells. uh refresh your memory, but uh I think you and I had a conversation a while back that at the end of the first quarter that we would invite the controller to stand before council to answer some questions uh with these monthly reports that you know there are some of them we're not getting a lot of questions on them and also um you know as we all know the upcoming budget for next year we need to get started on and uh I have a lot of questions on that as well. So are we still planning on doing that at the end of the first quarter which we are now at the end of?

Yes, Madam Clerk, I would ask that you would add that to the midmon meetings agenda. That way we could give the controller enough time to prepare for those questions and have all the information ready. Councelor Cone, um I was also Thank you. Uh, I was also going to say very similar to what councelor Giles said. Uh, I made a quick request online about some craters on Indian Lake uh, Drive and I got back into town last night and today I drove on it and it's it's a million times better. Like shout out to DPW in a big way. Also, this room, the windows, this room is 10 times bigger. Oh my god, I'm so happy. It looks great. Appreciate it.

Anyone else like to speak? All right, we will continue with the next item of the agenda, which is the approval of minutes of the regular meeting of March 18th, 2026. Are there any questions, concerns, or corrections to the minutes for the regular meeting of March 18th? I would entertain a motion to approve the minutes of the regular meeting. So move.

Thank you, councelor. We have We'll go with the board, uh, Counselor Merur, and a second from councelor Robinson. We'll now proceed with the vote. One second, guys. Let the record reflect that we have an 8 to zero. Yay. To approve the minutes of the March 18th, 2026 meeting. This motion passes and the minutes are approved. The next agenda item is the signing of vouchers, approval of claims, and the authorizations of payments. Do we have any discussions? I would entertain a motion to approve the signing of the vouchers, approval of claims, and authorizations of payment.

I'd like to make a motion for approval. Thank you. Uh we'll councelor Jennings motion and then we'll take councelor Giles as a second and we will proceed with a vote. Council

journals. Let the record reflect that we have a 7 to one to approve the vouchers and authorizations of payment and that the vouchers are approved. The next agenda item is reports of committees. Um do we have a report from the committee councelor Giles for public safety? Yes. Yeah. Jennings. Uh yes. Um the um proposal number uh 1 2026 uh was tap was tabled. Yes. Thank you.

All right. And then the council uh the committee of the whole also met to um give a recommendation for proposal one. That discussion was also tabled as well. Um the next agenda item is unfinished business. Um proposal number three. Madame clerk, could you please read the title of that ordinance into the record? Proposal number 3, 2025, an ordinance of the common council of the city of Lawrence, Indiana, amending title one, article 2, chapter 5 of the code of ordinances of the city of Lawrence, Indiana.

All right. That proposal um was in front of the public safety committee earlier this evening um and and was tabled for discussion. I will table that as well. Um I need to take a vote to table second. My god. Yeah, I would entertain a vote to table that conversation currently. Jennings. Thank you, Councelor Jennings. Do we have a second? Thank you, Councelor Giles. We'll now proceed with a vote to table proposal number one. Somebody

Tyrell I push Liz. Excuse me. Yes. Councelor Boy, may I verify if our voting system is working correctly? Yeah. Hit hit change vote and then hit it again. Hit it. Yeah. Well, that's not what happened. I didn't vote at all and it had it populated that I voted. It did the same thing for you, too. Did. Yeah. Let's do a roll call vote. Yeah. We'll proceed with the roll call vote. Um well, councelor Giles. Yes. Councelor Wells, we're voting on tableabling proposal number one. Yes. Three. Three. Proposal three. I apologize. Yes. Proposal three. Yeah. Councelor Boyd. Yes. Councelor Robinson. Yes.

Councelor Kramer. No. Councelor Jennings. I. Councelor Cone. Yes. Councelor Mur. Yes. All right. Let the record reflect that we have a 7 to one vote to table proposal number three. Um and that the vote has passed to table. The um next agenda item and unfinished business is proposal number one 2026. Madame clerk, could you please read the title of that ordinance into the record? Give me one second.

Council Floyd, did you vote yay for the last? Yes, I did. And then the voting clip. There we go.

Madame clerk, yes. Is did Ms. Counselor Boyd Your vote was counted correctly? Yes. My apologies. No problem. Proposal number one, 2026, an ordinance of the common council of the city of Lawrence, Indiana, amending title one, article 1, chapter 2, chapter 12, I'm sorry, section 12 of the municipal code regarding common council approval on expenditures of professional service contracts.

Thank you, madam clerk. Uh this proposal um was discussed today in the committee of the whole meeting and the discussion was tabled uh so that we could get further information from the council's legal team. I would entertain a vote to table that conversation again here in the full council. Do I have a so motion? Thank you councelor Jennings. Do I have a second? Second. Thank you councelor Robinson. We'll now proceed with a vote to table proposal number one. Same. It's the same thing. It did the same thing to me. And I apologize. Did you vote nay on that last? Yes. Okay. I just wanted to make sure. Thank you. Is that Yeah. I don't know if it's Yeah. Were you guys able to vote on the side? If you hit change second time. Yeah. Change vote. But yes,

I hit. And it's correct. Just hit. Is it correct? I assume it's find out. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Press press change vote and then hit it again and it should it should reset it. Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right, there we go. All right, we have a 7 to one vote. Can everyone verify that their votes are correct on the board? Correct.

Perfect. We have a 7 to1 vote to table proposal number one. The next agenda item is unfinished business. Uh 26 zone01, 812145th Street, Indianapolis, Indiana 46226. 26 zone 1 uh was properly noticed. We will move forward with the public hearing. Um the council will conduct the public hearing.

It's okay. Proposal number two. All right. All right. This is for 26 LZ2 5649 Lee Road, 9535 Memorial Park Drive. Um, this was also properly noticed and so we will move forward with the public hearing. Um, madame clerk, would you please read the petition number on the property address?

Uh, 5649 Lee Road-9535 Memorial Park Drive. All right. The public hearing is now open. Council, before we begin with the hearing, I'd like to ask for a motion to approve the following rules for governing the public hearing. Petitioner's presentation must not exceed 10 minutes. The combined total time for all members of the public in favor is 10 minutes. The combined total time for all members of the public against is 10 minutes. The petitioner shall have five minutes thereafter for any additional comment. And there shall be a combined five minutes for all members of the public speaking response. Do I have a motion to approve those rules? Second.

Thank you. Councelor Giles for the first and councelor Jennings for the second. We'll now proceed with a vote to approve those rules. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. I.

All those opposed, signify by saying nay. All right. All right. The floor is now open for the petitioner. Um, first, all those wishing to speak tonight, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Thank you. At this time, the floor is now open for the petitioner to present the resoning petition to the common council.

Good evening, everybody. Um Matt from our team is going to pass out a quick presentation that we can that we can flip through here. While Matt's doing that, my name is Grant Deon. I'm with the the Ridge uh team out of Muny, Indiana, 3225 South Hoy Street. Uh with me tonight is Matt Shelton with the Rebar team. Tyler Bowers uh with the with the Ridge team, as well as Tom Dicki um with with Rebar and Fred Preserve with Context, who is our landscape architect on the project.

I apologize. What was the last thing that you just said? Um, just introducing some of the team members. Um, Fred Preserver, Tom Dicki, Tyler Bowers, Matt Shelton, and myself tonight. Thank you. Does everybody have a have a copy in front of them? Everybody ready? Awesome.

Yep. If everyone can just go ahead and flip over to um this this next page here. So here you'll see um the the team uh that's that's here uh to develop uh Overlook at Fort Ben. We'll get into this further during the presentation, but overlook at Fort Ben will be 104 unit class A multif family development with 2,800 ft of ground floor retail off of Lee Road and Memorial Park Drive. Um so just a quick overview, Reebar Companies and the Ridge Group will be co-developing uh this project together. Studio Access and Indianapolis Space Architecture Firm will be the architect of of record for the project. Um, Context Design will provide landscape architect services. They're local to Fort Lawrence. Um, Veritus and Nvidium. We're partnering with them um on on the project um as well. And they're both of course Lawrence and Fort Ben local businesses. Moving over to the next slide, just a quick highle um overview of of Rebar Development. So, Rebar Development was founded in 2017. Since its inception, it's done 10 plus deals just like this one. public private partnerships with um reszones with with public dollars or or public investment involved similar to this one. Um and those 10 deals total over $250 million of total development cost across the state of Indiana. Flipping over to the next page, just a quick highle uh background of the Ridge Group or TRG Development. The Ridge Group was actually founded in 1990 as an underground fuel systems contractor. We still currently are in that business today. Um, however, back in 2018, we formed TRG Development and TRG Construction. Since our inception in 2018, we've completed over nine projects. Again, similar to this one, public private partnerships, reszone, um, city incentives, um, for a total development cost of of over $150 million, again, all in the state of Indiana. Moving to the next slide here, you'll see just the vicinity and surrounding area of of the site. And so on the far right side of the page, you'll see the

the surrounding uses to the northeast, south, and west. This is a reszone of of multiple parcels. As noted earlier, it's a reszone of the Veritus lot, the FH lot, and then the lot that was transferred from uh the city to the FH um during the last meeting. It's a small, we'll just call it a 0.25 acre parcel um that the city had had um granted to the FHA. And so this gives you a high level overview of where the site sits within the larger uh Fort District in area. If you want to move over to the next slide, this is just a a better zoomed in version that outlines the different parcels that you'll see at play um in this in this development. And again, just so everyone is aware, the FH parcel uh the address is 9545 Memorial Park Drive. The Veritus lot or parcel is 5649 Lee Road. And then the city parcel at an address of zero Fort Harrison. We'll go ahead and flip over to the next slide. Um our team in conjunction with with Renee um have have met at least 10 times to discuss this project in various uh capacities whether it's on this specific reszone or different matters at hand. Um and so the current site is zoned under the master use plan OC6 which allows for office uh commercial and fluxindustrial type uses. However, tonight we'll be we'll be asking for your support in the reszone to uh area two of the village center district in the Lawrence Village at the Fort Pud. It's a bit of a mouthful, so I won't say it again, but uh the uh again, your support tonight will allow us to um build the 104 unit class A community that we're that we're achieving and driving to build. Go ahead and flip over to um the next the next slide. This just gives some additional detail as to why area two, I mean, we chose area two in in discussion with Renee because it really allows for again that multif family residential use that we're looking for as well as that kind of

mixed mixeduse urban feel again with the 2000 square foot of retail walkability is really what we're looking to achieve with with this project. Um, if you go ahead and flip over to uh the next slide, this will show the site the site plan of phase one and phase two. So, um, the reason, uh, there's a phase 1 and phase two, is because, uh, phase one is the project that we're discussing tonight, again, 104 units, 28, 100 ft of retail. Phase two is a future phase two. However, in order to ensure that that, um, when the time comes for us to develop that project, we have the correct zoning use, we're allowed to build what we plan to build, which is again another 100 to 120 multif family units um, on the site as you see it today. Um, and councelor Mur, as you'll you won't see it on this site plan, but one thing um that we did include and and Fred can can discuss in more detail if if there's any more questions is our pollinator gardens throughout the site to address some of the some of the items that you had previously mentioned to us. I'm go ahead and flipping over to the next page. This just gives a high level overview of overlook at the Fort Ben. And so, um, overlook at at the four bin will be a total of 104 class A units, roughly 170 parking spaces, uh, with 30, uh, roughly 30 detached garage parking stalls, as well as again the 2000 ft². Of the 104 units, we'll have a mix of studios, ones, twos, and three-bedroom units. We'll have a total of eight studios, 61 onebedrooms, 32 bedrooms, and five three-bedroom units within the community. Um and then here at the bottom of the slide, you'll see um just the general timeline. And so with your support tonight, um we we'll we'll march along um and and look to raise the the appropriate debt and equity to close with financial partners in July of this year. Look to start construction as soon as we can, uh shortly thereafter. So let's just say we close July 31st. We'll look to start construction in August of of this year. And then we'll be completed with our first units being occupied in November and December of 2027. Sorry to interrupt you, but as you

speak about the units, I want to make sure that we got you doing this presentation that you make a note about our agreements on the uh the affordable the the below market rate units that you guys have agreed to to do for us.

Yep. So, thank you for for bringing that up. So, as a part of this, there'll be six um units that'll be set aside for 80% of the area income. Um and so, what that means is those six units will pay um a certain rent level at that that HUD sets. Um, but those units will be spread out through the community. It'll be a mixeduse community. Um, those units will be physically indistinguishable from the Marra units. They'll still have the same quartz countertops, tile backsplash, LBT flooring, highle, you know, super nice amenities and finishes. They'll still have access to all the community amenities that that that the project has to offer. And so, um, we're really excited to offer those units. Um, and um, and thank you for for for bringing that up again. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Question. You said six units. Yes, ma'am.

What size? Uh so it'll be a mix of the the uh studios ones in two-bedroom units. So it'll be a mix. Um we've not identified the exact six, but it'll be let's just say one studio um a couple two bedrooms and and a and a couple onebedrooms. So maybe two of the studios, two of the one beds and and two of the two-bedroom units is is the mix that we've set aside. Now, um we're open to further discussion if there's a preferred mix that the council would like to see. Um but we have set aside those six units for for um that that income level. Okay. You said set aside to be the affordable units. Um is who's who's subsidizing? Nobody. Um the unit is

Can I Is there any way just cuz I'm on 10 minutes. I'll be happy. Let's get through the let them finish their presentation then we'll ask questions afterwards.

Yeah, that's a great question. I'm sorry. I just don't want to miss any high points um during the presentation. Um so just we flip to the next page really quick. This is just a high level overview and I'll just kind of skim through the rest of this um real quickly, but these are the amenities that we plan to have. These will be representative of a class A community that you'll see throughout Indianapolis. Um just to highlight a few points, we'll have a resort style community pool with outdoor lounge eating and an amendi area. We'll have a rooftop patio on the fourth floor that'll be overlooking uh the fort itself. Really excited about that. We'll have a dog wash, uh dog park, pickle ball courts, and of course community space for for residents to to gather. And as you'll see here, there's just some representative imagery on the slides for for your reference. And then these next couple slides, if you go ahead and flip over to um to the next page, um this is just a representative floor plan. So you'll see a one-bedroom unit, a studio unit, and then if you go ahead and flip over to the next page, you'll see a two-bedroom unit, as well as a three-bedroom unit. Um on these on these slides, um and these again, these are just our our typical unit types. uh the most um or the the highest number of units that we have for these specific unit types. Um and so we really have thoughtfully um designed these units to to be very welcoming um with our architecture team. Um we're really proud of of how these have all shaped out. So if you move on to the next slide here, just got a couple more and we can get to the questions. Um just a quick high high level. Um you know, we we'd ask for your support tonight um for for three reasons. Number one, uh we feel this this project is consistent with the Fort Harrison master use plan. Number two, we feel like this project is is consistent with the Lawrence Village at the Fort Pud and what it's trying to achieve. And I think third and and most important is um by uh you guys approving this project. We're creating 104 additional highquality housing units um for the for the city of Lawrence, which is obviously very important um as as you know, housing is

a in shortage across the entire country. And then as we go to just the last page here, this is again just a high level project timeline that I that I overviewed earlier, but it has some some more exact dates um and some additional information. So with that, I'm done with presentation. Are you open to receiving questions? Y councelor Robinson, did you want to Yeah, thank you for that opportunity. Um, you said subsidy. Who's subsidizing supporting that?

So, these units um won't there won't be a true subsidy. So, what we'll do is the units will say um we'll have the market units and then these units uh we basically say, "Hey, resident based on the HUD rents, you're going to pay this much." And so, they pay that that rent that that is owed. So, let's just say for to make numbers round, it's $1,000 for for a unit and marker units are 1,200. They'll pay $1,000 plus their applicable utilities. There's no subsidy from the city. There's no additional gap through um any Indianapolis or Lawrence type affordable housing um bodies. It's all on the residents who make the 80% MI income to to pay the rent. Um that's that's set aside or determined by HUD.

Okay. So with these particular units, if a person moves out, will the next resident be allowed to pay that? Correct. So the the next resident will have to we'll have to meet the the applicable um income guidelines and standards. But but yes, we would never this is a 25-y year commitment over the life of the TIFF. And so, you know, if we have six units that are full that that people are renting at the 80% income, those six are there. And then if someone moves out, then we'll look to to fill that with with another household making that applicable income level. So at all times, we'll make sure that those six units are filled with with families and households that are that are at that um 80% amount.

Okay. Is this going to be noted somewhere in your plan?

So yep, as part of our marketing or part of the project agreement, we will commit to that. Um so it's in, you know, legal documents. Okay. And then, you know, we'll have um with it being in in the legal documentation once we open the building, we'll work with our then property manager to say, "Hey, we've committed to the city of Lawrence by them um you know, approving our reszone as well as the TIFF that we've set aside these six units." So, they'll be marketed um via the appropriate channels. will we'll look to hire a local property management firm that is well versed in in this type of um the the AMI uh affordable if you will type space. Um and so um to answer your question directly yes they'll be marketed accordingly to to meet any kind of appropriate guidelines as any other unit would be marketed.

Okay. I hope you all have a resident selection criteria because it does not exist currently on the fort and when residents move in they have two or three jobs to get the unit quit two jobs and then they can't afford the unit so then problems start.

Yep. So understood. Um there's you know a property manager would be able to speak better better to this than than maybe I could tonight but um there is certain criteria that that that uh a manager would look at. you know, they of course they look at income verification, jobs, they look at past um residencies, if they've had evictions or other things. They of course look at those things and vet them out. Um but if if our management team feels like there's a high quality uh applicant, they're of course not going to say no. We want people to to move into our project. We want people to thrive in the community that we're building. Um and so to answer your question, yes, there'll be resident selection criteria um available that that the manager will will go through to ensure that that those moving in are able to afford and and pay for not only the 80% AMI units, but also the Mercury units and that we're not just, you know, sitting 50% vacant or or what have you, right? Because the the more people that live in the building, the more people that patronize these businesses in the fort, um and it's just better for the community overall.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Robinson. Thank you. Appreciate it. Oh, you councelor Jennings. Yeah. Um I'm just curious. Um let's say I apply to rent at your uh new facility and I drive an EV. Yep. Can I make an arrangement to you to to find a way to charge?

So, we'll have um we'll have what we call EV ready spots. And so as we um look to lease up the property, basically what we do is we run conduit to specific spots um as a part of the garages too, we'll have we'll have those EV ready, if you will. And so if someone has a need for electric vehicle, we'll we'll then utilize the appropriate infrastructure to to allow for that resident to um move in and not have any issues uh with with charging their vehicle. Okay. Thank

this uh this property is not in a tiff district right now, is it not? Uh Dustin, you might be able to answer that question better than me. I don't So it's I guess let me and Dustin, you can back me up here. So it's part of the FH TIF district. Um and so Dustin, fill me in here, help me out, but the the FH pays basically a set um annual payment to the city of Lawrence for for services that are required um for the fort where you know, fire, police, etc. Um, and so we'll be a part of that payment that the FHA or part of that tip district that the FH has as a part of their agreement with with the state or state statute. And so we'll be in that, not anything within the city of Lawrence. Dustin,

councelor Wells, Dustin Barnes and Thornberg on behalf of the Fort Harrison reuse authority. It is in the militarybased reuse authority. So the increment u currently existing does go to the to the reuse authority. Um what the reuse authority would do is would be create a new separate area so that the revenues from the project were identifiable for the for the project financing which we'll discuss later but it is a part of the currently existing reuse area and the allocation area related to that. So it wouldn't be an expansion of their area. The um their allocation area covers the entire reuse area. And it did I hear it right that the tip that you're proposing is going to be what 25 years?

That that's correct. That's the the life of a of um a standard allocation area. Um and and in the case of the reuse authority, the the 25-year limit um comes primarily from the um the statutory limit on on the life of bonds payable from tax increment. But yeah, 25 years would be the the financing length. That brings up another question. You bring up the bond have uh the city is procuring the bond for this project. Is that right?

So the the the city of Lawrence is would be the issuer. Um but the bond is is payable exclusively by revenues um generated by the the Ford Harrison Reuse Authority and then that is further backed by a note from the developer. So the developer will be acquiring their own bonds and um so essentially the position that that puts the city in is is the developer is entirely relying on revenues it generates by by building the project for the payment of the bond and there's no obligation on the city's part to make any payment if those revenues don't come to pass because the project doesn't get built. So the developer kind of owns the debt lockstock and barrel. Um that's that's the deal in in in the in this transaction. Um and and the city uh the the Ford Harrison Reuse Authority does not have an independent ability to issue debt obligation. So they they go through the city as as the issuing entity, but um kind of as a conduit. Um so it, you know, it's it's the US authorities increment that's going to back it and then the developer backing behind that.

Having a couple I guess structural questions. How far is this building or this apartment building going to be from the train tracks? Because it looks like it's going to be like almost on top of it. Yeah. No, it's a great question. Um yeah, so there'll be a bit of a buffer and so let's if you'd like to if you'll flip to slide uh number number six. I think this gives a good overview and then once we take a look at that we can flip over to slide um actually let's just let's just go and flip over to slide number nine. I think that gives the best representation.

And so tonight we are just of course the reason is for is for all of the um parcels at play here. And so I just want to point out that the future phase two um is not going to be under construction um at the timeline in which is in this packet. only going to be this phase one. Um but but in the future when when when um this phase 2 is built, you know, the plan is to have a dog park or some kind of park use um just southeast of of phase 2. Um and so that'll act as a bit of a buffer of a tree preservation plan uh in place here. And then addition to that um you know we can do any kind of applicable sound testing or what have you as needed or or or required by the city to ensure that um our residents are not you know getting blasted if you will by by the terrain barreling through at 2 a.m. in the morning. Um there's different acoustical things that we can do to to um consider consider that use um or or that, but um that's not something that's been contemplated just because phase one um is further away than than phase two at this point in time.

Didn't exactly answer my question. How far in distance? Um I don't have the exact distance um today. I'd be happy to follow up. I mean, we're talking at least 50 plus 100 ft. Um but but if you'd like a exact determination, I'd be more than happy to to measure it out and and follow via email um with you and say, "Hey, we're 200 feet away or what have you." And and when you're saying that, I mean, that's is that from the parking lot to the railroad track, not from the building front door to the railroad track. Correct. I mean, it's it's I think it's further away than it maybe looks in in the in Well, the reason I bring this up, you know, Post Road is like close.

Yep. Uh so that train CSX is going to start blasting that whistle or that horn on that train probably just about where that bridge is uh because they got to you know hit it before they get to a a railroad crossing. Uh I live about 3 and a half blocks from that train track. And when uh 47th Street, you know, it's coming either to or from I mean it sounds like that train's in my living room and I'm three and a half blocks from it. And I just wonder how your residents are going to feel cuz if you're 50 75 ft from that, it's going to be shaking that building.

Yeah. Yeah, that might be the 50 to 75 ft might have been short changing a little bit there. And I understand your concern. Like I said, I'm happy to provide an exact distance. Um, you know, I think one thing that's important to note, too, is, you know, we're really not too substantially further away than than other uses uh currently in the fort. Um, of course, we don't we don't know feedback from from the Otis or other communities or or uses um in in the this area of of town, but um we're more than happy to consider as we move along those conditions and we obviously want to make sure the experience for for our paying residents are are a premium. Um, and so that's something that we can certainly take into consideration as we look to develop phase two in the future

because that 56th Street Bridge would be in proximity just about almost the same distance as the train track, would it not? Correct. Yeah. So, you know, it's uh there's a lot of traffic on that bridge, but uh so and I said I can't speak from experience as to the sound level because, you know, I don't live over there, but uh I just seems to me seems to me that if you're going to live in a in an apartment and you've got a bridge and you got a train, you know, just keep maybe 100 feet from you, you're where you live, it's going to be pretty hard to get to sleep.

This isn't part of it. We certainly understand your concerns, and that's something that we'll definitely consider as we again look to develop those, too. And if there's any kind of acoustical type type things or or or different um kind of construction types, if you will, that we can look at and consider to help offset some of that sound buffer, we certainly are are open to that. Um, but like I said, I'm more than happy to provide an exact or an approximate distance from the train track to that future phase two. um just via email uh maybe tomorrow if that's okay um and then we can give you that that information but um noted understood your concerns and those are definitely things that we'll we'll take into consideration as we look to do phase two. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.

At this time I would like to call any remmonstrators who would like to provide public comment um in favor of the resoning population uh the resoning petition. Um Councelor Chrome did bring up a very good point. I would I wouldn't want to see all of the uh uh subsidized housing uh close to the train track.

No, of course not. Yeah. So, so the um No, understood and certainly appreciate that that note. So, um we're talking phase one here. Um and so the the six units um will be spread out throughout the entire building. Um so whether they're on the first floor facing this way or first floor facing facing Memorial Park Drive, they'll be spread out throughout the the the building. Um and so they'll be in this future phase one because the tiff is for kind of this general allocation area that's in it's like a pinkish type color. Um and so it will be away from from the train tracks. Thank you.

Thank you. At this time, I'd like to call any remmonistrators who'd like to provide public comment against the resoning petition. All righty. Madam clerk, are there any comments from members of the public attending virtually? No. All right. Do counselors have any other questions? Would it be possible to hear from uh

I would now like to call a representative from the city of Lawrence to present the staff report. Good afternoon. Renee Rafa, director of public works. Um, we have worked very closely with the Rebar Group to uh get as much information as we could to provide to you guys for this petition. Um, we've worked very closely with the Fort Reuse Authority also. Um, the reuse authority implementation plan was originally passed back in December of 1996 and then updated again in May of 1999. So, this is a pretty old document. Um, we worked with the petitioners to try to figure out what section of the reuse plan their vision fit most with. And that's when we came up with the area two, which is the village center. very similar to the new building that's being built, the Benjamin with its mixed use that's in the area too. This kind of feels like that. The apartments, the commercial use, the amenities. So, we thought that was the best fit. Um, their intent does meet with the Fort Reuse Authority. This section was originally designated for office, commercial, and industrial development. The way the fort is developed since we took it over, it's not really leaning that way.

So, you know, it needs to be flexible. And I I think this is a really good fit for what we're trying to do with the fort. It meets the it's compat compatible with the surrounding land use. There's apartments to the north of it. There's apartments to the west of it. Um, your mention about the railroad tracks, Rick, I'll remind you that on the other side of the neighborhood, there's two neighborhoods. There's apartments there's three apartments and there's two mobile home three mobile home parks right there in that same vincity.

And we don't get a bunch of complaints about the train whistle from many of them. So, I don't feel that that's going to be an issue for even phase two of this building. But like they said, they can use materials to help with that. If I could, these mobile homes or or these homes you're talking about have occurrenly as uh close to these train tracks is what this apartment's going to be. The mobile home ones are they're they're literally right up to the tracks. Postacres and and uh Quail or No, it's not Quail Creek, Parkwood. Um they're literally red. There's

a pond and there's trailers that are or mobile homes, sorry. There's mobile homes that are right up against the train tracks there, especially in the wheel estates one. Anyway, I just there's materials they can use to help with that. Um, if it is an issue, some soundproofing or insulation,

that kind of thing. Another layer of drywall works wonders in uh keeping the sound off. This request also along uh aligns with the long-term redevelopment vision of the Fort Harrison rem master reuse plan. It supports mixeduse higher density development and an and in an appropriate location. The phase development will allow for orderly growth and infrastructure planning. So we think it's a good fit and we do recommend approval. I would suggest that you put the commitment have them do recorded commitments for the six units that they're going to do low-income housing. I think that's important so that it's enforcable.

Did you have any questions for this for the staff report? Um question. Um yes, ma'am. Was that a housing study done for additional housing on the fort? It wasn't specifically for on the fort. It was for We did a We had a task. Is that what you're talking about? The the task unit that the mayor Mhm. It was for the whole city, not specifically for the four. Okay. But if you remember, we just reszoned some property for some senior apartments. It was late last year for some senior apartments that are going

over off of Harrison Park Drive. So, we've got some apartments going over there that are also going to have some low-income housing available. So, okay. Lowincome housing for senior units for seniors. Right. Okay. Okay. Over on here are some park drives. So, I think this is in line and and their addition of setting aside six of them for low income is I'll tell you what my concern is. We got a new bu we have a building that's under construction with no occupants and we're getting ready to build another one. So, and then we have and then some of the that's their business.

Yeah, because he has to he's going to build it and then he's got to sell it. I I know I know I'm just they don't they don't occupy they lose money about the vacancies that exist now cuz even in some of the existing apartments with the the vacancy rate I won't say it's high but it's there and I think on the fort we're full and the there are you know like the the four apartments and then the I can't remember what the other ones are called off the top of my head right here the Otis the Otis yeah they're they're at capacity So, I think we've got the support for the luxury apartments here in the community. We shall see. We shall see. Thank you, Renee. Thank you, Renee.

Thank you. Um, prior to closing the hearing, I'd like to provide a final opportunity for the petitioner to respond to anything that the city has stated. Yeah, just um on the six units, I just wanted to to add um we're more than happy to record that as part of the reszone. I think it might be more appropriate to to tie to the tiff, which I know is the next item on the agenda. Um, but whatever the city's comfortable with, we're comfortable with doing as well. Um, just that way, again, if it's tied to the tiff, it runs for 25 years and is more kind of set in stone for that timeline. But that that'd be the only thing that I would add. Thank you all. I agree.

Thank you. The public hearing is now closed. I uh will entertain a motion to approve the petition. I'll second it. Can we have some additional language added to what they're going to do for those six units to be added? Uh would you like to propose a motion to add that language to this or did you want to do it to the 25-y year tiff? You're you're more than welcome to make a make a make a motion.

Which would be best? Would the tiff last longer? Right. tied to the money. Do I have a motion to councelor Jennings? And I have a second from councelor Giles. All right, perfect. We'll now proceed with a vote to approve uh 26 L2 4649 Lee Road. I got something going on with my board, guys. show you present time. Okay. They said change vote and then vote again. Yeah.

And that'll clear its change. Did it? Yeah. Change it. It don't work. There we go. It likes your big figure, man.

All right. Let the record reflect that we have an 8 to zero unanimous decision to approve uh 26 LCO2 5649 Lee Road, 9535 Memorial Park Drive. The next agenda item in unfinished business is proposal number two, 2026. Madame Clerk, could you please read the title of that ordinance into the record? Proposal number, excuse me, proposal number two, 2026, an ordinance of the common council of the city of Lawrence, Indiana, authorizing the issuance of the city of Lawrence, Indiana economic development revenue bonds, Rebar, TRG, Fort Ben LLC project, federally taxable, and the provisions of the proceeds thereof to Rebar TRG Fort Bin LLC and authorizing and approving other actions in respect there too.

Thank you, Madame Clerk. Um, let's see here. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Um, I will now open the public hearing. Um, council, I would entertain a vote to use the same rules that we used for the previous public hearing. So move. Do I Thank you, councelor Jennings. Do I have a second? I'll second it. Thank you, Councelor Giles. What is

All right, we'll now proceed with the vote to use the same rules that we used. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I.

I. All those opposed, please signify by saying nay. Let the record reflect that we have an a decision to approve the rules. All right. Okay. Would you guys like to present? Good evening, President Kramer and uh members of the city council. Dustin Meeks uh with Barnes & Thornberg uh on behalf of the Fort Harrison Reuse Authority. So, the ordinance that you have before you this evening authorizes up to $4.5 million of economic development revenue bonds of the city of Lawrence. Um, and the loan of the proceeds of those revenue bonds to uh Fort Ben uh the the sorry, rebar TRG Fort Ben LLC, which is the special purpose entity that would be constructing the project that you've just heard about um related to the the resoning petition. Um, so as I as I briefly noted in my conversation with with councelor Wells just a minute ago, um, these bonds are are what we call developerbacked. Um, so what that means is that um, if the city authorizes the issuance of these bonds, the developer would construct the project um, and would get credit for their investment in the project in terms of their ownership of the bonds. So um, they wouldn't pay money to buy the bonds. they would they would get credit to own the bonds on the basis of their investment in the project. And the benefit to them is that as the holder of the bond uh when uh they pay their property taxes on the facility and that those property taxes in so far as they they are incrementally greater than the basist value of the property um those property taxes become tiff which the the reuse authority would be collecting either way because it exist it's within their reuse area. the the re the um Fort Harrison Reuse Authority would pledge those revenues specific from the project to the payment on the bonds. So essentially what the developer gets is that they is that they own a right to um receive the tax

increment that's generated by their project for a period of 25 years. Um the proceeds of the bonds come to them in the form of a loan. So, um, in the event that there weren't tax increment revenues, uh, to to make the payments on the bonds, they would in in a sense owe themselves money. Uh, so they also are not going to pay themselves any money, but but they are legally backstopping the payment on the bonds. So, I just want to make the note for the public and for everybody on the council that the city has has no um financial sort of risk involved here. um in the event that the project was was you know started and not finished and there wasn't any incremental value generated the developer would just not get the benefit of the bond right so um they might own you know a bond that has a certain principal amount but it wouldn't be worth anything because there's no revenues to back it and there will be no obligation from the city um to back it and no obligation on the port point on the part of the reuse authority to back it beyond the tiff actually generated by the project. Um what the ordinance provides is the approval of of that of that bond issuance and then of two kind of essential documents to the functioning of the bond issuance. So the first of those is what's called a trust indenture which is an agreement between the city and a financial institution to do uh what I like to call the bond plumbing. um which is it it directs where where the money is going to go and who gets paid and and so a bank institution um will sort of act as intermediary and make sure that as the tiff revenues come in those go out to the bond holder and they're they're going to keep track of of the amount that's been paid and interest and all of that. The second document is a financing and loan agreement. As I mentioned the developer receives their bond proceeds in the form of a loan. And so the financing and loan agreement is the mechanism by which the developer is is going to backs stop the bond. Right? So that is their obligation to make payments in the event that there wasn't um TIFF. And the reason that we we structure it that way as a loan is for for two reasons. One, it does provide a tax benefit to the the developer because

they um they get to they don't have to receive all of the bond proceeds in in the first year as income, which is really nerd stuff. I'm sorry. I'm a I'm a I'm a tax guy. Uh but then but then separately um in the event that that uh this bond was ever sold to some other third party um the developer would still have to back it right so even if they even if if those payments had to be made they would be making the payments. Um so uh that's those that's the high point is I want to make sure that you understand the city's not on the hook related to this. Um and the the Ford is the Ford Harrison Reuse Authority is is really excited about this project. this is a parcel that they've had their eye on getting developed for some time and they think this is a really exciting use for it. Happy to answer any questions that you might have about the documents. I know that they're they're long. Um um but yeah, just happy to happy to provide any frame information that would be helpful.

Yes, sir. And real quick, you uh put out there a couple of times about mentioning taxes and the bond, but with this being in a tiff district, there wouldn't be they're not paying any taxes to the city for revenue or tax revenue. Right.

So the the property tax revenues the in in that when it becomes tiff revenues generated within the reuse uh authority, the reuse area, the the reuse authority would would get those revenues regardless. Right. So, um, they have an agreement with the with the city where they provide a portion of of the revenues that that come in to them as a as a military-based reuse authority. Um, so in to to a certain extent, there's kind of not a change from the city's perspective. It's just that the fort is asking for the ability to dedicate these revenues to this project. Um, and the bond is is sort of the the vehicle to get that done. But in terms of uh would there be property taxes going elsewhere than than to the reuse authority um if we don't approve this it that's not going to change right so the reuse authority would receive this increment um it's just that they they need your approval to do the financing to allow them to deploy the increment as an incentive to the developer if that makes sense and I'm sorry if I'm talking in circles councelor

yeah real quickly um would this not be about the last parcel of property that might be needed needing to be developed. I in the

for I believe that there are there's may maybe one or or two others. Um uh and I have to pull up the the reuse authority website identifies the couple of prospects, but I think that you're right that we are kind of approaching the end of undeveloped parcels um in the fort. Well, if that's the case, then why do we why does the reuse authority still even exist if we're at the end of our because I thought that was the whole purpose of the reuse authority was to develop the the properties, you know, when the fork closed. So, why why could this tax revenue not go to the city instead of going to the reuse authority?

I I think it's probably a determination that the general assembly would would have to make. um you know there there's only a handful of the military based reuse authorities and and Fort Ben is the oldest one. So I think to a certain extent we're we're kind of in in uh virgin territory in terms of um you know uh being you're yours is the first military base that that has had one of these authorities really thinking about about reuse. And so um I think it's an important future conversation to for the city and and and Indianapolis to have with the general assembly. um about you know what the what the future of of the authority is based upon the level of development. Um I mean I do think that if you if you look at some of the complexities of of getting a project like this done that the you know the reuse authority continues to be helpful and then um it's it is a unique tool. Um, not a lot of local governments uh have uh the the reuse authorities are what's nice about their statute is that some of the challenges that that sort of they operate similarly to redevelopment commissions and and the reuse authority doesn't have some of the hurdles that regular redevelopment commissions have. And so you uh you kind of have a powerful redevelopment tool for this small part of the of the city um that other people don't have. Um, and so I guess my caution might be that um, uh, the fort will probably continue to be a place where where development and redevelopment is is possible. Um, you have a lot of older historic buildings, right, that that, um, you know, may have opportunities to continue to develop. Um, and I wouldn't I wouldn't wish away what is a what is a maybe a helpful tool um, for you. Um, but I think you raised an important conversation that that I think we're probably are we probably are coming up to the the beginning of that conversation at the state level. So,

well, you know, I know the city of Lawrence is seriously strapped for money and you know, all these tiff districts and and then, you know, the Regus authority, it just seems like, you know, the the city just keeps shooting itself in the foot with these tiff districts, you know, with the the possible tax revenue that it's just not getting.

Well, and I think here the um I point out a couple things. So, so this this parcel is um as as parcels in the Fort area go, one of the more difficult ones to to develop. Um I think just based on its location and some of the geographic characteristics. So the the reuse authority has been really excited to have a developer interested in this in this spot in the fort. It was not a spot that they thought they would have um a lot of interest on. Um and there are other there are other parcels in the fort that they thought would go before this one did. So they were excited to have a developer uh partner interested in it. Um, and as we look towards kind of uh the the future of um a shifting tax environment in the state of Indiana where property tax is going to become sort of less important um because the state is shifting that and the municipal income tax becomes more important. Um a lot of communities are are going to be like fight really fighting for for residents. Um and I think one thing that is is great about this project um particularly because the fort is such a like a walkable um area of your of your community. It's it's a great place to attract kind of young professionals who like that sort of um walkable town square type space and and those folks um you know who who potentially have high incomes or you know raise the average income of your community are going to be important municipal income taxpayers when we do shift to the new the new local income tax system. And so I think there there are there are benefits beyond just the property tax. Um, and you think about all those people that are, you know, paying sales tax and um, you know, the businesses in in the fort and um, so I I I agree that, you know, we we have to we have to strike the balance. But I think here this project is is a really great example of but for the reuse authority providing um this incentive. This project, you know, that would not happen and this parcel probably would continue to be undeveloped and so there just wouldn't be any taxes for for anyone and you'd also lose out on the local.

Well, I think there's a very important piece of this conversation that you didn't go into. I think that would make us all very comfortable that ease my mind um in a development situation similar to this. uh is the fact that if the fort, one of the key things I'm very proud of is that we were able to do in a previous council was to be able to um negotiate a payment to the city from the fort.

If the fort reuse authority goes away, then we would have to share that property tax with all the different taxing entities. It is a very very uh plausible that Lawrence would get less money once we spread that across the board instead of the agreement that we have uh with the reuse authority. So the payment that we're getting right now from the reuse authority and the continue will get um it's very plausible that that's more than what it would be if we shared. Also, I totally agree too with the local income tax and the fact of bringing more. The only thing that we could do, we're a bedroom community for the most part, is to bring more folks uh to the city. So, this is in line of our goals to try to bring I think we want to bring 25,000 people, 20,000 residents to Lawrence. And so, that's part of also our goal there. Now, here's one question that I have. I think that's also important is that um if so what I've been told is that tiffs are not um being used at the same level as they were in the past 10 years ago or or so um because sometimes we're struggling with getting the increment in certain places like I wanted to put a tiff down Shaylin and one of the reasons that we didn't want to do it is because we were concerned about the properties in the increment so when you with the Ford. I want to make sure I'm sure that we will always, you know, there's a high likelihood that that the increment will always be there for the for the payment. If the increment wasn't there, um that's on the developer to pay. Is that what

Yes. Yeah. So the way that the way that this is structured is that in the event that there was not increment to make the debt service payments on the bond at any point in the 25-y year life um the develop that would trigger for the developer a loan payment um which again they would they would not pay themselves but that that cancels it out and there is a feature in the indenture which provides that at the end so the final maturity date on the bonds if there's any unpaid principle or interest at that point it goes away. Um, so essentially the developer is entitled to receive as much increment as is available, right, to to me make make their principal and interest payments for that 25 years. But if if there's not increment, they just don't get it

and they have to just come up with the bunny, right? Well, if if if they own the if they own the bond, then then we then we we pat them on the back and and and thank and thank them for for making their loan payment to themselves. But yeah. Okay. The other last question I have related related to this is if as we develop the fort and as we put in nice properties, wouldn't that rise all the property value on the fort in theory, which would then increase our tax our property taxes?

It will it would I mean it it probably will increase the value of of the surrounding property in the fort, right? Those businesses have more people to to stop in and patronize them and so it makes having a business property in the fort more valuable. and um and having more folks around you walkable sort of area makes the value of of living in the fort also higher um and so you know that it it probably does have the effect of increasing the amount of increment in total that's being produced by the reuse authority and I think you made an important point that um Indiana municipalities have have few options for very flexible dollars in terms of you can spend it on a lot of things and the reuse authority similar to a redevelopment commission has has very flexible dollars and so um they are a valuable partner to the city of Lawrence and and there are very few communities in the in the state that have uh as flexible a partner as the reuse authority can be to um to help and you know and so they they um them generating more revenues can be a benefit to the city and and I think that the reuse authority likes a collaborative relationship wants to be an important engine and driver and supporter of of the well-being of Lawrence.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Any other questions? All righty. Um, I will now call any remmonstrators who like to provide public comment in favor of the proposed ordinance. Is there anyone against from the public? Thank you, Madam Clerk. Are there any comments from the public um attending virtually? There aren't.

All right, counselors, do you have any final questions? I would now like to call representative from the city of Lawrence to present comments if any. Good evening, Greg. Good night, chief staff for city of Lawrence. Just to answer your question, Councilman Wells, uh, off the top of my head, I can think of four properties currently that are owned by the Fort Harrison Reuse Authority. um the vetinary and dentist property on Otis directly across the street which we I think is identified as lot B. They're doing staging for the Keystone development.

There's a parcel just uh south of this location on Post Road. Um go this way south uh going this way couple blocks away. It's got a sign up there. And then there's one further south of uh 56th Street on Post Road as well. They also have the opportunity to reclaim certain properties that they had sold at some point. So there could be property coming back to the uh reuse authority in the near future. Uh that's to be determined. So there's other properties out there. With that being said, a couple things. Uh just want to remind everybody stay the city. Uh you're all welcome. Hopefully you'll attend. That will be on Thursday, April 16th, 5:30 at the uh Lawrence Township School Corporation building on Wheeler. And I don't want to steal Jamie Wyrick's thumb thunder, so she can correct me if I'm wrong. But we also have our uh city health fair on Saturday the 18th at Community Park. I think it's noon.

Noon to 4. I got it right. Did the administration have any comments on proposal number two? Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you would call me. No, no additional comments. Thank you. Thank you. And you did steal her thunder. All right. Um prior to closing the hearing, I'd like to provide a final opportunity for the um for for you guys to respond to anything that the city has stated.

Um to the point we made during the reszone hearing, we'd be happy to commit to the six units of the at or below 80% AMI units tied to the TIFF 25 years. Um however, that needs to be papered up or or in legal documents. please just communicate that with us and let us know and we'd be happy to to review. Um, but we we're certainly willing to to commit to that for for this tip. So, thank you. Thank you. The public hearing is now closed. I would entertain a motion uh to approve proposal number two under the condition that the six units um that are low income are added to the TIFF documents and resubmitted. Do I have a a motion? I will move.

Thank you, Council Zur. Do I have a second? Thank you, Councelor Robinson. We'll now proceed with the vote.

My fingers act silly. I don't know what the hell's going on. Council Jennings. Yeah, mine is mine just not. We're having issues over here, man. There it is. Yeah, but I don't have the screen. Can I just say yet? Council J. Yes, I'll mark you. Yes.

I just push. Let the record reflect that we have an 8 to zero unanimous decision to approve proposal number two 2026. We will now proceed with the next item on the agenda um which is new business. There is none. We'll proceed with comments of the administration or have we have already gone there so still Jamie's thunder there. And then next is citizens comments. Would anyone like to speak? Please approach the bench. Recording in progress.

I'm not send please state your name and address for the record, please. Terry Davis, 5311 traditional and then I present 46235. Now, I sat around listen to the meeting. I keep hearing money, money, money. Um, there's a piece of land that I keep calling up, send an email, calling between 5311 and 5325. Nothing there. I done called trying to buy it. I think

I done called Ali Brown. I done called downtown. I done called everywhere. This piece of land that's sitting there using as a used car lot. People leaving cars out there which is next to my house. Animals running in front of the cars. I complain to the police department. I complain to everybody. It's between 5311 and 5325. Who own that piece of land? cuz there's no property tax that you're paying on. What road is it on, sir? Sir, what road is it on? Tradition road in the in tradition behind the bus stop. Mhm. Tradition subdivision. Yep.

Nobody on that piece of land. So why why can't someone buy it? I also request to put a park out there. We are the only subdivision in Lawrence without a park for the kids. You know where they play at in the streets. Mhm. So why can't we put a park there? I even send that email out. I got copies in my phone. All kind of emails I sent out. Why can't we put a park there for the kids? We don't know who owns it though. Well, I called downtown. They said, "Call Ali Brown." Ali Brown said, "Call Raphael, somebody. Nobody know. But they can use it as a parkot for people to put their cars in and just leave them out there.

Rats and rabbits and everything else, snakes running in in my yard. So I want to know how can we control that? Also this place was bought built in 1993. I was one of the first homeowners out there. I moved cuz I retired military. I moved to South Carolina. My son and my grandson lived there. My son passed. I moved back over there to take care of my grandson. The streets weren't done since 1993. Now I ride around cuz I'm retired. I see all these community out here in Lawrence getting their streets paved. I call, they'll come out, put a little pothole, but the whole community is pothole. So, I'm trying to figure out why can't we get a little It ain't the size of a football field. I mean, the track

just come out there and pave the road for us,

you know? Also, I can tell you everything I've went through since I've been here. When the military was out there, it was a military home. Far as I'm concerned, cuz everybody out there was 90% military. When I bought my house, they moved, it went away. Now we got a lot of rentals. Nobody want to park on the right side of the road. Everybody parked on the opposite. But I'm driving down the street. Somebody duck out almost head on collision. I came here last last year. Talk about the same thing. I call Lawrence police. You know what they do? They come out. I done seen them. I'm standing in the yard 8:00 in the morning. They'll drive by and see the cars park on the wrong side of the road. I know there's a law. I I research it that you can't park facing the wrong direction on the street. I know there's a law saying you can't block the sidewalk. The kids what they do when they walking I see a lot of family walking their kids. They walking in the middle of the street. The cars what about to slow down for them? You ride by there every day when you do ride through there you see the cars on the sidewalk stop and do something but then nothing get done. So that's why I want trying to find out who's running this Lawrence thing because uh it was a little different now since I was uh since I got back in town and I'm just trying to clean it up. I talked to Ste which y'all probably know him. Steve he lived out there. He was on some kind of committee. He say he tired of that's why he don't do it no more cuz he say he was fighting this for the last 10 years and nothing get done. I don't even know who they assume all these counselors have different sections. Who's our counselor for traditions? Anybody know Carlos?

I think it's Carlos. Me? Have you ride through there? Carlos, I think that's you. You agree with I do agree with you. Yeah. You ride through me. Ride through where they am. I'm 511. Stop at my house. If you're riding, stop at my house and I want to ride through. Let's see what you see cuz I've seen something different. Point of order. This is this is this is a point where we are supposed to allow the public to speak and not respond. So, if you'll stick around afterwards, I we can have a conversation.

Okay. And also, like I say, I'm at 5311 if you want to stop by and I walk the neighborhood with I show you what I'm talking about because uh it's ridiculous, you know, and if I wasn't prepared to be back up here because my grandson, I wouldn't because I Lawrence went, you know, downhill for me and I've been out here since 1993 when the military was here when I first bought my house. So that's why I just want to say at least take a look at it and treat us like everybody else community. I know we got a lot of renters out there because I can count probably uh probably maybe homeowners when first started probably five out of that whole community. So we got a lot of renters you know I don't know who written them to them or how they doing it but uh there's nothing to get done about it. So that's all I want to say.

Thank you sir. Thank you for coming. Carlos you might check with point Dexter. I think they may be the ones that own that property he's talking about. Yeah, I I I rode through there and uh uh uh I couldn't really see anything because it was I it was after uh at night time. So, I've been trying to go through every now and then. So, we'll get together. I'll talk to them. Would any other citizens like to speak? Meeting is adjourned. Turn this.