Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Today is December 16th, 2025. Lawrence Board of Zoning Appeals is called to order at this time. I need a motion and a second for the approval of the minutes from June 17, 2025. So move. Second. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Those opposed? Nay. Minutes stand as written. If you've not done so, please sign in in the back of the room. And anyone wishing to speak tonight, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Answer with I do.

Do we have any special requests tonight? continuence withdrawals or waiverss. Okay, there is no Oh, wait a minute. Approval of the 26 meeting dates. I will need we have to do a a motion. I need a um motion and a second and approving the dates for the next year's um BCA hearing.

I'll move to approve the the BCA's dates for 2026. Second.

All those in f favor signify by saying I. Those opposed. The date stand as is. New business 25 LSV12 6202 Sunnyside. Lawrence a possible church viva Terry Long senior request of variance of development standards of the city of Indianapolis consolidating zoning subdivision sign ordinance table 744-906-12 G to permit an electronic variable me message monument sign anybody here for this petition the back.

You're here. I don't see him here. You don't see him here? We'll do that. We'll hear the next case and then we'll call it up again. If not, thank you.

Not a problem. Renee has requested it be moved down to the after we hear this next case. The next case is 25 LSV-138630 Pendleton Pike partial 4004863. Mr. Lopez Gon Viva Cynthia La Thrasher.

Yes. Request a variance of development standard of the city of Indianapolis consolidated zoning subdivision table 744201-3 to allow a reduced rear setback 20 ft required 6.7 proposed. Yes. My name is Cindy Thrasher and I'm here representing the owner um for position 25 LSV13. Excuse me. Can you speak into the microphone more? 8630 Pendleton Pike or Pendleton AB. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's not. Is her microphone? Well, it is on. I just heard that.

So, we are requesting a variance of development standards to um allow for a reduced setback uh due to the location and the size of the property. Um we're asking that it encroach um into the rear setback and allow for a 6.7 foot setback instead of the 20 that's required. Um the property owner uh the reason for his request they're wanting to add to the building uh to add some bays because right now they said um a lot of the times they're pretty busy and the parking lot is congested and if they have like if they've got cars in working on them and they have people pull in that's like just needing tires or uh flats or something quick. A lot of times they're having to do the tires right out in the parking lot and it's kind of dangerous with all the traffic and the congestion that's in that area. This is 13. Is there a staff report on this? Do we have a staff report? Do we have a staff report on this?

It should be 13. Yeah, I find it.

Yeah, it should be right behind the second staple on that. Oh, with the address. Oh, this. That's it. That's it. What's the recommendation? Yeah. That's the What's Did everybody get it? Yeah. But what's the recommendation? There's no recommendation. Yeah. There's no recommendation. There's no recommendation. And there's there's no discussion about I mean they give us the zoning things but they don't there's no discussion about surrounding and Okay. Okay.

Well, I guess I'll ask the petitioner. So, um this this is quite a large extension and I don't have the benefit of knowing what's around it. So, you're going to have to help educate me if you don't mind. Um, I'm not exactly sure what all I was just told the reason behind their what they're I know it's a lot of commercial surrounding it, but um I just they just gave me the reasons for them wanting to or why they're wanting to expand. Okay, it says to the let's see to the north it's D6. This extension is it going to extend north, south, east, west? Because I'm having trouble reading the maps. I was

um it is extending northwest. So it's extending more towards that residential area. Yes. And so how many feet are going to I I know the setback, but how many actual feet will separate that residential area from that extension? The closest property line is 6.7 feet away. Okay. So that's it's a pretty serious proximity for commercial tire. Yes. To be for a residential. I don't have any idea like how close the nearest residence is to that line.

I'm trying to get it. Madam Chair, I think um my sense is is that this kind lady right here is probably not as familiar with it as our staff person will be. So maybe it might help if we went to the staff report and we can come back bring um this lady back up to the microphone with questions. Sure. I'm from what I'm seeing it's very close to the property line. It's almost being built out to the property line 6.7 ft away from the property line. Right. And there's nothing to separate that from the from the residential. I mean, there's no fencing, nothing. I mean, you're really right in the other right in their Yeah. 7 foot yard.

Yeah. 6.7 foot away from their property line. I mean, they can put up a fencing and if if that if somebody would like that. Oh, yeah. I haven't been to the rear of their building. So So you haven't been to the rear building to to even see this? When you say they could put up a fence, are you talking about Yeah. The owner El Camino? Yeah. Yes. Okay. But there's no If there is a recommendations for it to be approved, they would be willing to work with that. Do you know anything about the lighting that's going to go in that back area? No. Staff, do you know by chance? There's no information. Okay.

Yeah. I I'd like to I'd like to call up the staff person if we could. Okay. We have to go through the different Okay. Yeah. There's a Yeah, because I don't know the standby. Yeah, because I I don't know the specifics as far as like the requirements, but I know they'll meet whatever the city requires for the lighting and that kind of stuff. Oh, okay. So, I guess here's the what I can't figure out from the pictures. Is it just the tire shop that's trying to double in size or is it cuz on on here it's just this shaded building. On here it's like this whole area including the restaurant next door. So, is it is it just a tire shop? Just a tire sign. Well, if he did, let's say he didn't he

because on this it looks like Bose. On this on this, it looks like there's circled also the the restaurant next door. Yeah, it looks like encumbering the restaurant a little bit. I just I feel like there's not a lot of information here. I'm not clear on what we're actually approving. Yeah, if we if they would meet the setback requirements, what would what would that how would that affect the building? Um, if they let's see find a floor plan. 20 ft is required, isn't it?

Yes. It would be like a 10. They would be adding 10 foot to the building if they met the setbacks. They would be taking 10 foot off in a Yeah. Like they would have to move back. Yeah. So it'd be like 14 ft back. So it would be like I think But how would that Could they still put their bays in there? That's what I'm getting. I don't think it will fit a car. Okay. And I know I'm trying to pass this. I remember coming up. Okay. Thank you. Are there any remmonstrators for this petition for or against the petition?

Yeah. Rick, there's a gentleman over here. You want to go first or you the gentleman? Doesn't matter. I'll go first. That not not if it's a council person. Good evening, board. Good evening, councelor.

And I'm Rick Wells. I'm city councilman for district 2 and I represent this area. Uh, I have been contacted by the uh some of the neighbors in Charnie Park, which this is right on the border of Charnie Park. And um I uh have a list that was just given to me recently of 17 signatures of people that are residents of Charnie Park. I'll be happy to give this to the to the clerk uh if she'd like to have. And also, let me give this to the clerk as well. I have a letter also from Jesse Alexander who is the owner operator of Alexander Machine Shop which is right directly east of this property this proposed property. He also well I'll just read this if I may. Um, it says here, it says, "Alexander Reality owns the three properties directly behind the El Camino Tower Shop and the property across Geneva Street. We support small business in their efforts to expand and improve their property. In most cases, we have not seen the plans. All we know is they want to build within 6 ft of the property line. We do have the following concerns. We see the number of cars currently visiting El Camino. We don't believe the proposed 6-foot setback will leave room for the current traffic or and an additional traffic on the property. The property seems to be full as it is. The displaced cars will probably end up parking on Geneva Street or in our lot. How will this be addressed? We do not want the extra traffic in our lot. We already have a problem with this due to the dividers on Pendleton Pike. We would be against any garage doors in the back of the building or pavement beyond the

edge of the building. Being six foot from the property line would remove the current drive behind the building and keep any vehicles from being behind the building. If they have no drive behind where if they have no drive behind where will their trash dumpers be located? We would ask that all mobile storage uh storage units be removed and not allowed. I assume the building will replace these current shipping containers. We have had issues in the past with El Camino customers and neighbors driving through our property on occasion. If this was approved, we would ask for a barrier hill and fence to be built behind their property to prevent any traffic from their property through our property. Um, I went by there today and uh I did notice there's like 12 cars and one has snow on it. So, apparently it has been sitting for a while, but the rest of them I don't know if they were uh cars from like customers or if they were cars from uh employees. There also was a big box truck. Um the u um lady said that uh you know about parking. Well, if you build a building on the whole back section of this property, that's not going to enhance parking. That's going to make it worse. And you know, uh Mr. Alexander brings up a valid point. Where are all these cars going to park? because the ones that I see now and with the box truck, we're parked directly behind where this building's to be built. Um, another concern that my first thought was this Geneva Street is a very it's a residential street and it's not a very wide street. uh the access from Pendleton Pike, there is a

cut in the median. If you're coming from the west heading east, there is a cut to turn onto Geneva Street. That is the only access that these people in uh back in this neighborhood have if they're coming from the west. Well, if there's a uh a a truck delivering tires or whatever, they're going to have to park there on Geneva Street, and then these people, you know, coming back into their neighborhood are going to have to negotiate around, you know, these delivery vehicles. Another concern that I had but was kind of disappointing. Uh I drove behind the building back where the two restaurants are and a concern that I had was what about deliveries to these restaurants? Because now they're not going to be able to go completely around the complex. But the way the property is now, there's so much stuff back there, they couldn't do it anyway. But that isn't to say that maybe down the road these restaurants would change, you know, ownership or or proprietorship and uh the next people, you know, aren't going to have uh these food trailers and all these vehicles that are sitting back there blocking access. Uh uh the other concern is uh you know what about emergency vehicles? You know, if you look to the west on your map, the uh the drive is extremely narrow and uh to get a delivery truck, you know, and to make that sharp turn to go directly behind those buildings, it's going to be tough. And uh and then and then the vehicles, of course, that's the way they got to do it now, but they have to back out. But uh you know if the owners of the property was to make you know all this

debris and and storage go away then that would be you know currently would be simple for you know someone that they're making a delivery to just pull in behind the building make their delivery and then go straight on out into Geneva Street and keep on going. So anyway, in representation of the u of the neighborhood and uh uh the district, you know, that I represent, I uh I would ask you to vote no against this. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Counselor. Please state it state your name and address for the record, please.

My name is Jeremy Ross. Uh my address is 4735 Charnie Avenue. Uh thank you for hearing us out this evening. Um I live in the most direct house right behind this uh location. I am the closest house in the proximity of the tire store. Um over the years it's been it's been pretty good to watch the tire store grow. He started as a really small business and it has grown so big. I see why they need this space. He's been extremely successful. I see that. I think this is a very simple case of he's outgrown the property. The property was too small to begin with, even when he moved in, and now that he's grown so big, there is not enough room on that land for him to expand and do this without causing further congestion into Pendleton Pike in that area. And a few things that you hit on, which are absolutely key, is my backyard. When I sit out and try to enjoy my backyard at night, there are giant bright lights on the back of the not just a tire store because it's really not that as much as it is the taco shop in the business next door. Um, I can't even sit out there at night without these blinding lights shining in my backyard. I can't really even enjoy it without putting something up to block it and I haven't yet. So, that'll be something I have to address. But the traffic issue and then one more thing. So, it is a tire store. They get cars that come in there with bent rims. I hear them out there bang bang bang bang just beating these dents out of these rims

as late as 8 o'clock at night. I can hear ding ding. My wife knows the sound of it. She knows what it is. And it's okay. It's not that big of a deal. You know, I appreciate that the guy's trying to make money and be successful. I can appreciate that. But the fact that I have to sit there and listen to that and some of the other key factors like I mentioned like the light, uh the storage containers out back. I have to look at all this out back. I see the storage containers. I see the tires. I see the box truck that's sat there for 12 years full of tires in the back, you know. And again, I'm not trying to knock the guy. I I could appreciate how successful he is, but it's a huge inconvenience. And to think about the construction and the further expand his business with more traffic, I just can't see it. I can't see it. We're already in a pinch with that road construction. the uh provisions that um INDOT has done out there with the median, it's already made it to where we can only turn left on Geneva. So, if you know by looking at the map, it's a horseshoe comes out the other side. Um to for us to go left and go eastbound, we can only use that Geneva. So, some of us have already got accustomed to just going out, going right, going to Esquire Plaza, turning around, going back the other way. It's been nothing but an inconvenience. So, to further that with this, I I disagree with it. And again, I I don't want to, you know, put no shame on the guy. I can really appreciate what he's done there. I just truly think he's outgrown the property. And that's just plain and simple. And for the setback to come back six feet to the property line, that's just blocking off even more for me looking out my property way out back towards uh Pendleton Pike. That's going to further block that. I don't know what other kind of stuff's going to be placed back behind that building, but I say no. And I own the two right directly behind there. My father lives right across the street. So that's just my take on it.

Thank you, sir. Thank you for your time. Um, may I ask a question? Sure. So, um, how many days a week are they there working? Six. Throw up six days a week. All right. And you say they'll stay as late as 8:00. 8:00. What's time typically that they leave? Uh, they look like they start about 9. Okay. 8 n o'clock they're there. Okay. And you said that now they have storage. What What is the storage containers? those storage shipping containers. Yeah, they have two of those full of tires. Okay, so there's two shipping containers back there that they store tires in. And what about um you said there was a box truck that stored tires in? There's an old box truck parked there like an old bread truck, you know, it's been back here for years. They just use it for storage.

So is that truck aband considered abandoned? It's got no plates on it. It's been parked for about 10 years. So they're not really using it other than for storage. And um now has the neighborhood approached the city about enforcement or anything regarding the lighting? Not the lighting, but I think they've been probably talked to about the tires a few times because that's always an issue disposing of the old tires. And not to mention tires in large amounts are a huge fire hazard. Huge. So sometimes that concerns me, but it's nice to see them in the shipping containers. They would be contained, but it's still an issue that we always got to worry about. The lighting is a huge problem to be able to sit out in my backyard. I can't really enjoy it without just being blinded by that light.

How long has that lighting issue been going on? Um, probably more than 15 years. And is that lighting just to illuminate the back of the building or is Yeah, just security lighting to illuminate the back of the lot behind uh Taco Express and the food uh facility next door to that. And where are now in the back of the building? Are there dumpsters for the restaurants as well? Yeah, that's a whole another issue. The grease smell from the grease thing is it it gets on it's it's a little it's a little nasty at times. Working out in the yard, you can smell it, especially in the summer. Well, but so they have to keep dumpsters out there going to n How is that going to further impact?

As Mr. Wells said, there's a little skinny side road that comes around behind the food facility. That's going to be a little tough. That's the only way in and out of there for big trash trucks to empty the trash containers. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? No. Okay. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Anybody else for against the petition?

Okay. With there not being any other demonstrators, we'll hear from the city of Lawrence. Renee Rafllo, director of public works. Um, this property is zone C5. The use is appropriate for what they're doing now. They are literally wanting to double their space. Um, they have a 30x 64 building now. They're wanting to add a 30x 64 building. They're going to be 6.7 ft from the property line. the building right next door where the two restaurants are owns the property behind them. So, they're going to be encroaching on that business, not residential property. If you look at the map and the staff report,

this one. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we were trying to make sense of that. Yeah. So, the yellow property, the yellow outline is the property in question. The property next door is the one that it's backing up to. So those two buildings are connected. No. No. No. They're separate buildings. The 8624. Yes. Next door. Yeah. That So it's the same owner. No. No. Uh El Camino Tire owns the building in question. Okay.

And then a company called SRF LLC owns the building to the west. The two restaurants. So, they're two separate owners. Okay. Um, we we're not in favor of this and the reason being is it's going to overdevelop the property.

Um, they there's already limited parking for the employees. They currently park behind the building. When you add this structure, there's not going to be any place for them to park. There's not going to be any place for the dumpster. It's not going to allow for a flow of traffic around the three buildings, two buildings actually, I'm sorry, the two restaurants and the El Camino Tire. Right now, there should be a circular pattern so that deliveries can be made. Um, the storage and shipping containers that they're using are only allowed for 90 days. They're way past that, so those have to go anyway. Um there's no the illumination on the property does not meet the zoning the Indianapolis zoning requirements and code. The uh landscaping doesn't meet the requirements. They would have to bring all that up and there's not enough green space to meet the requirements. They're going to be taking reducing what little bit of green space they already have. Um, I just don't think it's I think he's outgrown the the location and you know, we I hate to tell Tony needs to find some other place, but I really feel like he's outgrown the location and that it's not a good fit. Um, I know that we're working on uh getting some control over our zoning and doing a overlay along Pendleton Pike and this is not going to fit within that redevelopment that we're looking to do. um you know m making a recommendation to expand his business when it's it's outgrown the property.

I've got serious public safety issues I think. Was there any questions that maybe I could answer from DPW zoning? Well, because do they have another location in the city? Is this their only Not that I'm aware of. I mean, we'd be more than happy to help them, you know, see if we could locate another location, but I I don't think the addition doubling the space is a good fit for this property.

So, if they expand back, I mean, looking at this map, it I can tell these buildings are separate and then they're owned by two different people. So, if they do this expansion back um and the building goes to that size, how many parking spots would they be required to have? That's the other thing. They can't meet the requirements for zoning parking either. They've got, you know, you have to have without looking at the thing, I think it's one spot for every 15 square feet. So, you know, we're going to double the size. They already don't have enough parking for the size of the building they have, right?

Which has been a problem. I mean, she even mentioned that it was a problem for them. Now, they're having to change tires in the parking lot. So, which is also against the zoning ordinance, isn't it? Yeah. Um, and and so the other and this one I'm just curious about. So, you have this strip of land that's behind these two buildings, but it it's actually owned half by one, half by another. So, do they have an easement with each other to be able to share and crush? So, actually, if if one of them wanted to build a fence right down the back of it, down the middle between the two buildings, they could absolutely do that.

Yeah. Which would make further travel even more impossible. And, you know, that would also limit more emergency response. Um, I don't know who mentioned about how flammable tires are,

but um I have big concerns about that too at that close to residents. Um the property directly to the north of this there are three lots that are undeveloped that are residential. Um Alexander Screw the business just to the west or so I'm sorry to the east of them owns those three lots. Just because they're not built now doesn't mean that they couldn't be built in the future. And a tire shop that close to a residence is probably not a good thing for public safety. Well, and I do want to also say that I am delighted to hear that you all are going to start working or have been working on doing an overlay for Pendleton Pike.

We're working on it because it's it's hard to make zoning decisions when we don't know where the community wants to go and where they see themselves in five or 10 years. So, I think that's excellent. I look forward to seeing that. Me, too. Yeah. It's been a long time in Pound Pike already has a lot of safety issues. Yeah. And so I think yeah I mean yeah I I don't even know how to verbalize what I'm thinking but uh a lot of safety issues a lot of concerns for the adjacent residents. Yes ma'am. And adjacent and adjacent bu businesses that they've already they've already come forth. So um I mean have have there are there any variances currently in place or they've been able to operate without a variance? The the use is allowed.

The use is allowed. The use is allowed for the property. Um, they do have some issues that need to be addressed. The storage containers as far as it being used as a I mean, even if there were to be, you know, a second location, but to maintain this as a tire shop, that's not a problem. So, the the zoning as it exists today is not an issue for the business. Correct. It's it's the addition they're wanting to do that we have a problem with.

Yeah. I I just don't think that it it, like I said, it's going to overdevelop the property. It doesn't leave enough space for adequate parking. It doesn't leave enough space for the required landscaping. There's no illumination in the parking lot at this time other than the lights on on Pon Pike. That's required. If they do, if you do approve this and they build that building, they're going to have to meet all those other requirements. They're going to have to figure out where to put the dumpster and it's got to have an enclosure. I with the plan that they're providing I'm not seeing where that space is going to be available to do that. Right. I mean the plan underdeveloped

is part of the issue. I it was hard for me to understand what was actually being requested. Yeah. It's tough. So um and as an aside um can the city do anything to help about I mean I know there also standards regarding how much light can be thrown off. Yeah. I made a note for Mr. Ross so that I can look at that. It's not unless we receive a complaint. I don't know because I don't go driving around at night looking behind and stuff. So, I I did make a note to check on that for him and um see if we can get the two restaurants to put a shield on it or do something to to deflect that light from shining out of their property boundary.

And and and can they also do some can someone go check to make sure that the grease disposal is being handled I'm sorry that the that the grease disposal is being handled properly? And we check on that at least once a year on any restaurant. Great. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else have any questions on this petition? Any other Well, just I mean just I guess curious if they got this extension on all these storage things they have. It's going to go away anyway, right? Some of the issues with the storage, the tires. Actually, that's another thing on my list is to notify them that they have 30 days to get rid of those storage containers. They're not allowed to keep them.

Yeah. They're not allowed to be on the property. So, any other questions? Thank you, Renee. Thank you, petitioner. Do you have anything any answers or want to add to your um I I only know answers to a few of that. Um I know this the stuff that's in the rear, they were going to move inside. That's part of the reason they're expanding. Mhm.

Um the lighting, we were told there was not enough lighting on the property, so they were going to have to, like Renee said, um put update the lighting when the building was constructed along with the landscaping. Um when I submitted to the city, uh Indianapolis for the um and improvement location permit, they didn't mention the parking, so I wasn't aware of how many parking spots were needed because I don't know zoning that well. Um, so I know that's about only all the answers that I know. Um, I did not know there was a lot of remmonistrators. Normally, uh, I get calls or notified when there's remmonistrators, so I wasn't aware there was so many. Um, so I have not talked to anyone or I could have provided plans as well, but I wasn't aware. So, I didn't know all the concerns. And I don't think the builder that is working with the um the owner was aware as well. And I know when I had went and tried to uh speak to the owner, there's a little bit of a language barrier there. So, um I wasn't aware of most of the remistrators or else I would have tried to get the builder to work with the neighborhood. But yeah, so

but there's that's six feet. That's not very much. No, it it is not. It is not. So, I am curious. Is there another location? I said the west side. Don't I think there might be one in in like on the far side of Indianapolis, but I'm not positive because we understand growth. We We want businesses to grow and there's not another one in Lawrence, I don't believe, because I didn't curious there's other ones can handle some of the overflow, the extra business is why I was Yeah, I'm not sure. I just do building permits. So, I don't know like much about this owner and his businesses. I just got hired for the to do this one location.

Uh, when you go back, please reassure your client that the city this has nothing that this is only because he's got a good problem. He's outgrown this space. Yes. And he has a great business. Now he has to put on his business thinking hat and think, "Okay, do I find a place around here? Do I try to move it?" I mean, that's all good stuff to have to handle.

All the arguments make sense to me. And like I said, if I was aware, there were so so many remistrators, I would have had them see if they could have had a meeting to try to so the owner would also be aware of, you know, the the neighbors wasn't happy because you always want to be a good neighbor if you're a business as well. So, and I'll I'll go back and I'll tell the builder or the one that I'm working with, even though he probably won't be building the building to see if he can help uh make sure he's aware of some of the corrections that he needs to make because of the language difficulty. Well, yeah. And for me, I just too many safety issues.

Yeah. With the increase, I don't I don't know if there is a safe increase in that building. Yeah, I understand that because I know when I was I had to go over there a few different times since uh we had to redo the hearing and all and it Yeah, it was packed both times. It was packed both times I was over there by a car, you know. Yeah. And that's what when he they were talking about changing in the parking lot. I'm like I would hate to be bent down on the ground in that parking lot because it's not safe for the customer. So I have a lot of it is crowded. Yeah. So I totally understand where everybody is coming from. So Okay. Thank you. I appreciate your time. All right. Anything? Five minutes from the Remonstrators.

Step up. State your name and address, please. My name is Bill Ross and I live at 4732 Charing. The answer to Oh, please speak into the microphone. Talk into the microphone. Oh, the answer to you guys's question, we just looked up. There's four. He's got three other store besides this one.

Okay. Thank you. And just the traffic it they were talking about he parks on it's Geneva or Beto whatever they call it. It's only like four houses and it changes names the road but there's uh they park on that road right there and do trailer work tires sitting there on bumper floor jacks and no jack stands no nothing under them and then same way behind the store. So but he does have three other stores. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. The board will be voting on um 25 LSV138630 Pendleton Pike, a variance of development standard of the city of Indianapolis consolidated zoning subdivision ordinance table 745 744-201-3 to redu allow a reduced rear setback 20 ft required 6' 7 in proposed. LSP 13

13. The board has unanimous unanimously denied the petition. Now the board will listen to 25 LSV15 5426 Point Dexter Drive. A petition has constructed a facility for a landscaping mower contractor which is permitted under the existing I1 zoning. Petitioner seeks a variance of chapter 743 article 3 section 6 U5 and table 743-306-2 of the city of Indianapolis consolidated zoning subdivision ordinance to allow for an outside storage in excess of 25% of the building square footage and within 500 ft of a protected district.

Oh, thank you. Well, thank you and good evening, uh, Chairperson Lidle, members of the board. Joe Calderan, 11 South Meridian, Indianapolis, representing BGP, uh, Development LLC. Um, which basically are the initials for Billy Point Dexter, who's been out at this location with his business for many, many, many years. You can see what I'm talking about if you turn to tab one in the exhibit book. Point Dexter Drive is um an industrial local street uh that has a main entrance on uh 56th Street just a little bit east of Pendleton Pike. You can see kind of the character of the area uh which

I remember this

at least on the either side of Point Extra Drive is industrial. The reason that we're here, if you look at the aerial photo, uh if you see the pinned uh parcel, which is lot five in Point Dexter Industrial Park, you can see the Traditions neighborhood uh to the south southwest of this parcel. Uh the development of lot five was approved um by this board. I I think uh Renee had in her staff report in 2024. And you can see the site plan uh indicating uh kind of the compacted gravel area where the storage will take place. There are two ordinance restrictions in play which are a little bit inconsistent with the whole notion of uh industrial uh development uh near residential. First of all um contractors of all stripes are permitted in industrial any of the industrial categories I1 through I4. Uh this is no different. This is an I1 zone property. You can see there's a building that actually has been erected uh as permitted, meets all the setbacks, etc. of 11,000 square ft. The 25% limitation for building appropriately sized for a contractor would yield storage area for equipment, materials, any combination of the above of less than 3,000 square ft, which is minuscule for that genre of use. There are just simply very few if any contractors that don't

have some level of their own equipment that they take from job sites back to their office etc. And that's exactly what's being proposed here. Now the good news is is despite uh the 25% limitation uh our plan indicates that we are maintaining uh all the transitional yard requirements and setbacks between this property and any residential property uh which is the traditions neighborhood to the southwest. You can see that on the site plan in tab four. And Renee actually got a better plan than I did. In the staff report, you can see the landscaping plan uh which shows a little more detail. I was not uh provided access to the landscaping plan through my client contact, but Renee gets a construction plan. So, if you turn to the color U landscaping plan in your staff report, you can see a couple of key elements which I think are important for this board to consider. One, you can see that there is a fence that goes around the perimeter of the property that provides screening. And two, you can see mounding and landscaping uh particularly emphasized on that uh southwest portion of the property that's already been installed, graded, etc. So the end result should be a scenario where any concerns about outside storage um of landscaping um equipment would be mitigated by uh appropriate screening including the mounding

landscaping the fencing and we can certainly put in a commitment for uh the board's uh benefit that we would maintain those as any condition to your granting this requested variance. Like I mentioned, the real crux of the ordinance issue is that it's kind of inconsistent with the permitted use portions of the industrial zoning uh require u allowances for contractors. And you can see looking at tab one that there is already um existing businesses with outside storage. These are mostly contractors in this industrial park. Uh best equipment a bridge point extra excavating kut that are all within that or most within the 500 foot um of residential. Uh you can also see that um the traditions neighborhood has its retention area and significant tree screening itself on the north side of their property. So there is additional separation between the outside storage and any actual residential lot and that retention area and other areas platted as common area. So, it's not a scenario where you can expect it just to go away. So, we got a little lucky on that side of uh the property line, but we're doing our what we can on our side of the property line, which is to again fence, landscape, and mound that southwest area. We meet all the transitional yard setbacks and requirements. So, uh, with that, um, I'm happy to answer any questions that you

may have, and I haven't heard anything from neighbors, but there could be some here. Be happy to address any questions that they may have as well as the board. Thank you. Go ahead. I just have a very basic question, which is what type of materials are being stored? Is it equipment or is it It's mostly equipment. Okay. So, like I when I taught Yeah. about trucks, mowers, things of that nature. It's not like manure or something. No. Okay. No, there's because because I think that matters, especially resolutely and we can certainly add that to a commitment, right? There wouldn't be any storage of fertilizer. Yeah. Chemicals. I was going to

chemicals, right? We worry about drainage as a part of a public safety,

of course. And and I if you um noted on the site plan, they do actually have their drainage plan shown um shown kind of on the north side of the lot. Um that's already everything's been vetted and in fact they came to this board to have that kind of the compacted gravel as the storage area. I don't know how it was missed. Um but at that time they did not make the requests that we're making tonight. So they actually thought they were going to get permits. Permit said up we found a couple things and you know we've been very fortunate to have worked with Renee on this um uh for the last few months.

All right. And Joe, it's good to see you again.

Good to see you. Um, I remember when this came through because quite honestly due to its proximity to the residential. Um I I was not a big fan of the making it a permanent gravel thing and and part of the problem was we didn't have the overlay com a comprehensive plan or plan that was going to say where do we go in the future with this and so and I remember the drainage issue being one of the reasons that arguing for why there should be compacted gravel there and such and you raised when one of your last comments something that immediately came to my mind was that how on earth could they miss that? I mean, it it makes me think that what they decided to do was to come in first go for the compacted gravel knowing because they knew it was going to be this developer in there. They knew they were going to have to have storage space needs and all of that and then come back and say, "Oh, wait a minute. We need to put this in there." So, it's just kind of concerning me because now what I I'm concerned about what are they going to be coming back with next? because I personally in looking at that it looks to me like that might have been the plan.

I understand your concern. I respect that. I believe uh that it was a in-house petition. I had was not involved in the variance. No, you you were not involved.

I was not here. I've done other things involved with this general area over the years. So they probably thought it was something easily done without, you know, having an extra pair of eyes on it or somebody with some pure zoning experience. I can't I don't know of any plan. You know, I'm sworn to tell the truth uh obviously presiding here tonight, but I'm speculating that it was an in-house type of scenario. But the owner of this property not only owns this parcel but land around there. I mean they came in with the specific idea that they were going to develop this right for a landscaping company. So I'm kind of surprised I'm kind of surprised as well that they didn't go back knowing the investment they were going to be putting why that they would do this on their own. But maybe it's because since they've developed other properties. I don't know. But I still have the same concerns that I had before. Now, what kind of storage are we talking completely outdoor storage?

Well, they've got 11,000 square foot building. They do have barn building or some storage, but there would be it's not practical to store all of their equipment inside. So, okay. And so, we're talking heavy equipment. How tall is some of this heavy equipment? I don't think they have anything like cranes or or things like that. It's just would be equipment associated with the landscaping company. So, it would be, you know, more smaller equipment, but certainly some that could have to be hauled on tree cutting and that type. Yeah. So, yeah.

Um, so, and how tall is that burm? How much of a protection does it give them the the residents from looking out into that? Was that the intention of that burm was to provide visual separation? The intention of the burm obviously is to provide some screening. There's landscape uh plantings on that.

Um st Renee may be able to answer that because she actually has seen the construction plan. So um if you look at the staff report and that plan, there are several layers and and trees. So, it doesn't state the height of the burm and my client contact did not know the exact height of that and when I talked to her this afternoon. So,

well, this is the new building that they're again the if you look at the aerial um in tab one, the folks in that neighborhood, even the homes that are on the northern end do have their own treeine buffer and the retention uh pond has additional separation and screening on their side of the property. So where's the front the front of this building? This building it faces it faces Point Extra Drive. So it it the front of it is east facing.

So they want So okay so it faces out and looks into the proposed storage area. Well where you want to do the 25 where you want to increase it beyond 25%. Correct. And then but the and then the entrance is that little road part. Correct. That comes in. So on the back side of the building, what do they have in there? What do they use that space for? On the pardon me, back side of the the main building,

all of that area that's kind of shaded as gravel is open for that type of outside storage. I don't think it covers nearly all of it, but that's what it's intended for. Okay. So, we're talking I'm talking about where it looks like they have like I don't know whether those are containers or trucks or whatever. So,

it's not part of the It's not Well, I assume I don't know maybe it is. You want the increase in storage space. Is it just going to cover this parcel that's on the front of the building? What about the parcel behind the building? it. The outside storage area is the compacted anywhere in that compacted gravel area and that's in the front of the building. It is to the south and then southwest. Okay. Is that

if you look at tab four of the exhibit book that kind of outlines that Okay. So, there's one extra draw. This is the gravel area. This is where all of the materials are going to be. This is employee parking and visitor parking. This is for storage of materials. So, this is like where they're putting the gravel, the mulch, the stone. This is equipment back here. Okay.

All right. Thank you. Okay. So then, yeah. So when I look at this, that looks like a different So this area right here, no, this is the lot where they're going, right? This these are two other lots that are not involved in this. This is the lot where they're at, right? The building. Okay. The building is in the middle of that lot. Okay. So this is So there's two more lots to the south here off of Point Der Drive. Well, that is different. Look, here's the parking. That's This is Coin Dax Drive. There's a lot that goes right here. There's a lot here and a lot here. This is lot five. This is lot four. Right.

Okay. So, right here is the storage area. The building's here. There's a storage area here. So, his exhibit doesn't have Yes, it does. Okay. It does. So, why isn't it on there? Because this is the development plan. Oh, that's proposed. Okay, got it. Yeah. So, this is Point Dexter Drive right here, right? It goes on on way down here. This is the little pond area here. If you look at Let me show you this. This might So, this is the lot they're developing. Those are the two lots that I said are to the south.

All of this is storage. All this right here. That's all this. Okay. Okay. Turn this the right way then. Let's do that. Okay. There. There you go. Okay. So, now you got the circle. Well, no. No. It still goes like this. Okay. Goes like this. Leave it like that. Okay. Okay. Leave it like that cuz here's the circle. Point Dexter drive. That's point D extra drive. This is Macy's circle or Macy core. Yeah. Okay. You've got a drive coming in here. Right. Everything goes to the storage area. That is all of this. Mason Cord is over here. Uhhuh. This right here is the pond right here.

This is the building. And then this is the other little storage area with another drive that comes off of here. Okay. And is this on the back side of this? Yes. So this storage backs up to this slot. So this is another sir. So this is all the storage area right at the bottom. At the back. This would be the storage area. Is that there now or not? Yes, this is all built. Okay. So, it's just not here, right? Because this is an aerial from 2024. Okay. That building was confusing. Okay. That was cuz we didn't have anything that Okay. Okay. Does that make sense now? I apologize. I don't know that makes that's why it came up. So, you Thank you so much.

I apologize for confusion. I think that the aerial photo which was taken before the building was built has led folks to express concern that all we're asking for is storage. Okay. So, this what you're here for us tonight only go relates to parcel five. Lot five. Yes. Lot five. Which you can see I included the plaque in tab three. So, parcel five. Okay. is a little bit more than four acres. That's it. Okay. Oh, so it's this one.

Point Dextterra Drive was extended to the south many years after this section of the plat was platted. This was 2003. Okay. And the school bus uh transportation facility and the other lots were 2019 I believe. Okay. So, parcel 4 has no storage on it or it does. It has nothing to do with um so the 25%. So, parcel 4 is developed with another contractor. Okay.

Not related to this. Okay. That helps. Yeah. that's been around for some number of years. So you have and that is directly to the north of the tree. That's the plant map. Yeah, we just got the lots to find. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's saying something different. But see here, look, you got this is the uh proposed new building. So they want to put storage here. This parcel five goes with something else. Um the you have the existing building which this is the next part. Um if you look over here what is that part of? That's a different is that well this is their building. That's no no no can what is this? Kut is that you that is not related to this. It's a separate lot, separate

building, separate user. Okay, there's where the confusion. Okay, so the and so the area behind the proposed building shown on your exhibit 4 is going to be does not go any it does not go along with this with this part with the building, right? Belongs to somebody else other use. Is that correct? If you look at lot If you look at tab four which is our site plan that is everything you see is lot five. It has nothing to do with the existing building and storage to the west right

which is lot four. So the building that's shown as proposed building is actually built and the storage area is shown kind of in that. It's not cross-hatched but it's indicated area to the west and to the south of the building. Okay. Yes. So what? See, but the building you have your proposed building here and then behind it. Okay. Who has that? They're saying this. So all this goes to somebody else, I guess, is what they're saying.

Yes. So is this one impacted grass? All we're interested in is this right here. These are two. I think I think my aerial photo Yeah, because it's doesn't show the building. No. Correct. Yes. Yes. I know this one. This one. Yeah. To figure out. Sorry. I want to make sure everybody's comfortable. I'm throwing that one out. I'm throwing that one out of my head. I'm not even going to look at the aerial. But this right here matches this right here. This Yeah, that's the old and that's cuz that's the plat map. So, it's old. Yeah.

So, this is the proposed site plan here. So this is the proposed building right here which sits where? Right in here. Yes. Where the building right in here. Right in there where the So your question is is what's behind this? I mean it's still all part of but it's right. It's still all part where they store the equipment. Okay. What's this one then? That is where they're going to store the materials. Okay. So there are how big are Okay. So you're how what is what storage amount are they currently allowed? What percentage? 25% they're asking to go and you want to increase it to to over 25%. How much you know how many square feet it is? It's you want to take the entire parcel there that's

everything that's shown everything that's shown in the graveled area on your exhibit four. Yes. That's is fairgate. It won't all be covered, but that's what it was intended for back in 2024, I think, when this board What's your question? This is what we're No, we didn't. It wasn't brought up. So, this is already approved here because I guess the only thing that wasn't approved is that it was closer to I don't know what we're saying. It's within the

we don't know how much about this 500 ft of the protected display. So we already approved for storage. This is also storage here behind the proposed building. Okay, Karen. So you know you did hear that we already approved back in February of 2024 the impacted gravel. Yes. four is permanent service for storage of the equipment, right? That's back in 2024 was that it was within 500 ft of a protected district, right? And it was going to be over 25% of the square foot.

Exactly. And those are two very big things. You would agree. I mean, that's those are two pretty big issues. But we already approved the whole area. We approved 25. We what we approved was impacted gravel 25 for 25 for storage of equipment and not for 25% that was never put in it. Okay. But they were limited to it. That we knew when we were voting on that was the law, wasn't it? You just let me Yeah. I I apologize. Well, I I'll see. When did the 25 go into effect? Back in February of 2024. The petition was for them to use compacted gravel instead of a permanent asphalt surface, right, for the storage of equipment in this area,

right? That was the site plan. The site plan has not changed, right? So, you guys approved it in 2024 for that whole area, not please let me finish storage. Okay, just go back. Let me finish so that we can explain what we did in 24. I know, but here's my just this is one question. It'll take right to it. When we're talking about the 25% limit in 24 that was not part of a petition. It was not part of anything. That was the law. It was not known at that time though. It was not caught by us or by the petitioner. The law. That's why we're here today. Can I finish, Rene? You didn't let me finish.

The That's what I'm trying to get to the heart of it. The law at the time said they could not exceed 25% of that impacted gravel area that we approved. That was the law. No, the law says that they couldn't have more than 25% of storage exceed they couldn't exceed more than 25% of the square footage of the building for storage area. Had nothing to do with compacted gravel. Okay. So 25%

what we approved that's what I was trying to explain to you in 24 they presented the same site plan that we have before you today showing that this whole area was going to be compacted gravel and that its intent was for storage of their equipment. But see there's where the big thing comes in because when we voted on it the law said 25% of the square footage of the building. I I completely understand that. What I'm saying is when we voted on this in 24 that was not known that that was an additional variance that was needed or that it was going to be 500 ft from the protected district. Correct.

So that's what we're trying to resolve today except for the fact that what I'm just saying is that they it's not like we didn't know that that we did know that we did know we are present up at that 24. Renee, please let me finish. Mr. Chair, I'd like to just finish my point.

We are presumed to know the law. Just like all these people sitting out here, all the res, we are all presumed to know the law. The law at the time said that your outdoor storage could not exceed 25% of the square footage of the building. It also said that you had to be set back so many feet that those were the circumstances under which we passed it. Now, by saying that you want to come in and and exceed the 25% square footage of the building and do it closer, bring it in closer to the protected district, it raises brand new issues. That is my thing. This isn't going back and just repairing something that we made that we didn't catch. This is a whole brand new analysis. And that is what I'm trying to figure out here. Yes, ma'am. And I get that. I do understand that. What I'm saying is back in 24 when we presented the case when they applied those issues were not brought forward to the board there was no discussion of 25% rule or that it was within 500 ft. We discovered that after the building's been built Indianapolis brought it to our attention. Hey, we missed this. You missed it. We missed it. The developer missed it. Now, we need to fix it. That's why we're here today. That's what I was trying to point out. Not that it wasn't needed. It is absolutely needed. It needs to be discussed. It needs to be decided on. I'm just trying to give the big picture, the whole picture, so you have all the information that we discussed this in January or February of 24. N24. We did not realize that the storage was going to not meet the code of 25%. Or that it was too close the 500 500 protected. Indie missed it and we missed it.

Okay. So, but when you say Indie missed it, yes, it's up to the petitioner to say we are going to need more than 25% square. Please let me finish Rene, please.

Okay. So, in other words, Joe, when this came through the first time, your client did not tell did not put anything in there saying, "I'm going to need to have x amount of storage. I'm going to have to make sure that that storage area said so many feet from this area." I mean, none of that was put in writing. None of that was put into the submission. So, that is what is to be considered. So all I want to know is how many square feet of storage do you want on this piece on this parcel and where exactly is it going to be located? It was supposed to be up front for the equipment. So where and then we have the supply. So, taking all that in total together for this particular business, which even if they're different parcels, still is limited to 25% of the square footage of the building, right? How many how much storage space do they want?

Well, it exceeds the 25%. I can't It's well over 100%. The building's 11,100 square feet. 25% of that is less than 3,000. which is minuscule. This is a 4 acre parcel. I don't know how many exact square feet it is. We just are asking for a variance to exceed the 25% of the building per the site plan. So in other words, if we give you client what they want, they could fill the whole area with storage and and and all kinds of storage as long as it's supporting that business or related to that business. I'm I'm I'm not even sure how that's written out, but anyway, the whole area could become storage. There's no limitation on it.

The You're correct. There is no limitation in the petition. It just says in excess and it can be anywhere on there. Now, from a practical standpoint, we know it won't be because you have to maneuver stuff around and it's a pretty big area. How tall can how and 10 feet is the max height for storage and industrial? Okay. So, it can go be 10 feet tall there at the most. I mean, a lot of this stuff is going to be less than that. Okay. But you're saying under the um and you know these ordinances much better than I do. Um so under the ordinance it storage height cannot exceed 10 feet. Correct.

What we're trying to present to you tonight um is that it's pract and again the standard the standards are are we hurting the community? Are we hurting our adjoining property owners? And is there practical difficulty in the ordinance? I know you're experienced somewhat a little,

a little bit, but you understand the concept. What we're saying is from a practical standpoint to limit a contractor with a 11,000 square foot building to less than 3,000 square feet of outside storage presents a practical difficulty. can't really meet that test and be able to operate a business viably. Again, it's a permitted use. The contractor use, the landscaping contractor use is permitted. Now, as far as the proximity to the neighborhood, it's a it's a classic rub because we have an industrial park that's been around and been developing for decades and you have a neighborhood that and each of them are permitted to be there and 500 ft is a pretty significant distance. considering that you have to do transitional yard requirements uh which includes enhanced setbacks and landscaping and screening. It's just kind of duplicative. What's the harm? Why do you need both? and we're just pointing that out as our reason for practical difficulty in terms of the proximity to the neighborhood particularly under the circumstances where there have been industrial uses developing up and down point extra drive for decades. So let me ask well again back to the percentage I I I think there's a there's some important importance to that otherwise there wouldn't have been a percentage in there to even start with right so we can't like say that that percentage is not relevant now what that is is kind of what we're questioning but

right now is just kind of wide open we don't really know where where that's going to end up so I guess I guess c just your thought why would be there need to be a percentage even to start with even in the original law if that was not some sort of relevance to it been there. It could have not even been there to start with to put take the practicalities. There's got to be some rhyme or reason to I don't know the I didn't write the ordinance. I can tell you that it is a the 25% rule has not evolved too much over the past number of years and this is my 36th year.

Okay. Um, I can tell you that there's always been a conflict be when you think about, let's say, 25% rule. 100,000 square foot building, 25,000 square ft, right? That might be plenty, but this is an 11,000 foot building, which is permitted, meets all the requirements. So, it just kind of disproportionately favors large buildings which could be built here. I I would guess.

So it just it seems to me that the 25% rule is a little bit biased towards larger buildings versus smaller buildings, either of which are permitted in this case. And you know, we again, we meet all the setbacks, including the transitional yard requirements, which is what I'm trying to tell the board is our our best way to present this is that, hey, there's already enhanced setbacks, enhanced screening and landscaping and and all of that that is supposed to mitigate the changeover from residential property and industrial property. Otherwise, you could just say we don't want any industrial development within 500 ft. Right?

In this case, they're just picking out outside activity. Well, what if this was a warehouse building and had semi-trailers within 500 ft? That's totally permitted. So there's just in my way of thinking and what I'm trying to present to the board, there are just some anomalies in the ordinance that don't make a lot of practical sense. And that's I I can get that. So good good point. So I guess so I guess it would have been helpful to know what the percentage was. And I guess I'm surprised if you're going to build a storage unit, you would they wouldn't know what size that's going to be.

You know, the the outside storage area. I mean, it could be a I I don't know the exact square footage of it. It's significantly more. And I mean, I I could get a calculation and come back next month if you want me to do that, but it's it's more than a it's more than 100% of the building size. It's, you know, it's really it's outsized compared to the if you're going to compare it to the building size. And if we're looking at exhibit three, I mean, there's 10 lots and point Dexter owns all these lots. Is that right?

I think that that some of them have been sold to third parties cuz also when we're talking about 25%. Well, I mean, we're just talking about 25% of lot five, but he owns all all or most of these other lots as well. the ones on the interestingly uh the ones on the east side of um Point Extra Drive are zoned I3 uh which has a slightly different that's leading into the school that's leading into a school zone too. The school one is to the south and is not shown on the plat in tab three.

The school transportation facility, you can kind of see it in in tab one, which is the aerial. You can see the north end of it. Oh yeah, transportation. I was meaning the Indian Creek school goes over. Oh, Indian Creek School. Yeah, that's more like 9 10 9 and 8. But yeah, the the transport is to the south to the south. But I mean like the these the first five lots at least is Po Dexter. So still lot five is less than 25. Live five alone is less than 25% of what Po Dexter owns,

right? I I would yeah I I have to look at the plant and see how much total acreage there is but yes that would be that would be accurate. So even if Yeah.

Yeah. I if Joe if we needed and I just I don't know and I think we need to ask Renee this is that when someone needs to get a variance from the 25% is that standard practice to say okay you can use it all for storage and we don't know how many exterior outdoor square footage that this is going to be applied to and we don't know how many square feet are going to be going for storage. Um, so if we would be more comfortable on knowing that, would it be a cause a major inconvenience for your client to for you to get that information and come back to us or

if the board needs more accurate information, we'll just we'll do it. I'm here by myself tonight.

Yeah. You know, I have to make the call to get the board the information it needs to make an informed decision. And if the board tells me, Joe, happy holidays. We'll see you in January, let me know exactly how much you need. Technically, the way we noticed it, the way we filed it is perfectly fine to say it's we're just exceeding 25% whether it's by 100% 200% 50% we're okay from that standpoint. But if the board really needs more detail, that's fine.

I've done this a long time. I've been here many times. I don't want the board to feel like there's something shady going on. I mean, it's a a nice business to have in an industrial park and all that. And if you as a board believe you need additional information, I can get it. I'll get it. And the shady part doesn't You and I have been on the opposite side of issues and I have never ever felt like I had any reason to question what you've said or anything. So, well, we don't want you to like you mentioned your fear was what else are you going to come back for? We don't want we don't want anything like that either.

We don't want the board to feel like this is just is the way the variance written is that all let's say we gave you 100% of all the exter Well, first so I can tell you it's more than 100% of the building. The building's only 11,000 ft now and the gravel area is much more than that. Now accumulatively the stuff that's on the gravel lot is at 11,000 ft. I don't know. Yeah. And I don't know if they can say well it's 8,000 ft today and next year if our business grows it could be 10,000. I just don't know.

There's going to be space behind the new proposed building as well in addition to parcel 5. And I just don't know. No, no, no, no. We only are dealing with I this I can tell you confidently. We are only dealing with lot five. One parcel. Okay. And none of the other parcels that are undeveloped to the south which are involved in this whatsoever. I can tell you that I think the question was raised earlier you brought up about there being a lot of parcels there. Well, to be

I'm just saying if it's the same owner of all these parcels and we're looking at the 25% rule is way lot they if they put 100% into parcel 5 is still less than 25% of what he owns. That's all I was that's what I was just seeing if does he own all of it because it says it says point extra industrial park. Yeah. So it seems like he would own all of it and this is just like the corner where he could put all his stuff. Well, but it's a it's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. I get it.

Acquiring this or leasing it. So that all all of the You are correct. On the east side of Point Dexter Drive, Point Dexter Excavating operates on several of the lots. Right. On the west side, I think there might be one point Dexter Excavating, but there's equipment. So to the extent that there's other businesses. So to the extent the 25% rule is put in place to protect against adverse use on you know uh adjoining property he owns all of it. Yeah. But for but for the ones to the

for Yeah. It's really how do you feel about the plan visav the neighborhood to the southwest tradition. Right. That's really what I think it comes down to. and have we done enough to protect it? Let's hear from Renee and then we as a board then if you want to continue this this to next month to hear the percentage we can and we could put a restriction on it too. Huh? Right. We could put a restriction on it too. A percentage restriction.

Is there any remmonstrators here for the for or against this petition? So, we don't know what's we don't have an overnight plan. We don't know what's going to be.

Hi, I'm James Mazur. I'm a live at 6203 Carrington. Um, PO Dexter. Great business for Lawrence. Fantastic uh community uh support. Um, what I'm here to tell you is what happened at Waste Management. And I know you're not dealing with waste, uh, but, uh, I was on the chamber at that time and we held an open house and everybody was concerned about the smell because it was going to be an expanded transfer operation. Um what we did not uh appreciate at the time was all the uh the backing and moving around of trucks involves a lot of beeping and there's a lot of light that is associated with these kinds of uh storage facilities at night and that are LED and they're extremely bright. Um, we have the same thing happening at US Lumber over on Sunnyside, which again, great business, but the beeping um at night is incessant um and it's loud for anybody that lives in the um Kensington Farm neighborhood. And it it again, lots of light. and they've done a pretty good job of redirecting uh some of the light so it doesn't um expand into the uh the neighborhood. But those are um concerns that people have when there's a lot of equipment being moved around. Um it it's like you don't think about that or at least we didn't on the chamber when the um waste management expansion took place. Again, good company. Glad to have them, but uh some of those secondary effects um are of a concern.

Thank you. Anybody else for against the petition?

Renee, we're here from the city of Lawrence. Renee Rathless, City of Lawrence, uh, Department of Public Works Director. Um, my point earlier was just to say that I don't think there was any intention to be deceitful by BGP or Turner Scapes, which is the tenant occupying this space. Um, it was missed by Indie when the ILP was applied for and by me when I was reviewing the original petition. It wasn't um intentional from the city's standpoint or from Point Dexters or Turner Scapes, which is the tenant. It was just a miss. Um, that's why we're here today. That's what I was trying to communicate. I don't know that I did that very well. Um, we did hear this case back in February of 2024 and approved the gravel lot as a permanent surface for storage of equipment. Um, I am in agreement with the findings of fact that the Marian County zoning ordinance does put a uh overly restrictive condition on the outdoor storage in an industrial park. Um the petitioner has taken the steps to alleviate any visual of the storage area by the burm and the landscaping. That was all looked at very carefully when we were approving the development plans to make sure that

there was some separation from that residential. We took into account that there was a tree line there and a pond. Then we have this burm that's 10 feet. Is it? It is.

It's a 10ft burm. So if you've got equipment that's 10 foot tall, you're not going to see it. You've got very mature trees. Traditions has been there since the early 2000s, late 90s. So the trees that are there are very mature. There's a pond. um the burm with more trees and landscaping before you get to this gravel lot. Um we are recommending approval on this. Were there any questions that I haven't already answered or anything that you may have in addition?

Well, first of all, I and I want to apologize because you and I were miscommunicating and I reacted and I apologize for that. Um, I guess my point was is that when we sat here as a board, we didn't miss anything because nobody brought it to us and it was missed. So it had Yeah. So it had no play in our decision doing compacted gravel. So now here's my question for you too. Have we ever grant? So you're saying that this whatever we decide is only going to apply to parcel five, right? To this business for Turner Scapes, this parcel five.

And what is the square footage of parcel 5? It is a little over four acres. So it's pretty big.

It is. It is. And the the parcel to the east of it is another landscaping company, Ken Cut, and they have outdoor storage in excess of 25. So, it's not anything un if you're looking at the aerial pictures in my staff report page two, um you can see there's lots of outdoor storage on all of these parcels. So, it's not anything out of the ordinary for this industrial park. Um the the property directly to the east where Kut is, he has several pieces of equipment outside. Um you've got the property to the north of Macy Court. You can see that there's what what you're looking at. So, we

Yeah, I'm looking at page two of my staff report. this aerial photo. Curious, you do you know how much they exceed the 25%. I I won't know and that's going to be a hard number to stay because this is a newer business. Well, I'm sorry. I'm talking about the other ones who already have the storage. You said the um I mean if you if you look at just trying to get an idea what the very first parcel off of 56 Street. Which one is that?

Um you know I I didn't look into that to see how much each of them have. I didn't know that was going to be a question. So, I'm not prepared with that answer. Um, but when you you're asking how much they want to use of the gravel area for storage, like Joe said earlier, this year it may be 40% of that area because that's where their business is at. If they grow next year, they may have to come back and say, "Oh, now we need 50% of it. Oh, we need this much." the the intention when we heard the petition back in February of 2024. This plan that's in my staff report is what we reviewed. These are the same exact plans that I had in that 24 packet showing this area was going to be all storage. It was going to be compacted gravel. that this burm was going to be here with those trees. Nothing has changed on this plan that we reviewed and talked about in 24 except for the fact that we realized, hey, there's a a code that says you can only use 25% of your square footage and and it needs to be addressed and we need to make, you know, a decision on that. Um, what I'm seeing though when I'm looking at the other parcels in the same development is excessive outdoor storage in the industrial park. When you look at the other industrial parks we have in the city, the one off of Pinan Pike right off of um 465, that whole north section there is all industrial. There's a lot of outdoor

storage. It's not uncommon for a business to exceed that 25% in an industrial area. It's not a very I I do believe that Marian County zoning needs to look at that specific section and do some revisions to it because it is something that is varianced often and not just here in Lawrence but in all of Marian County. It's a very common request before a BZA to exceed this number that they drew. I don't even know where they came up with that number. It's been in there. I've been doing this 27 years and I looking back at all the versions, I've not ever seen it change. Um, so when you talk about the other places, businesses in this area that have excessive outdoor storage, you're talking about they go beyond 25% of the structure.

Yes, ma'am. And but we don't know sitting here tonight whether they had to go and get a variance. I would have to look at each and every one of them individually and do some ma, you know, some pretty deep research. This park's been around long time. Billy started his in the early in the 80s 80s late 70s early Yeah. I mean that's been and and and it's unfortunate that it was allowed to that the this next to the residential. I mean because this does create a different tension than you would typically find with an industrial park that's usually stuck away, you know, by the inter something. Well, but not usually it's not.

Well, normally you would have industrial and then some commercial and then lighter commercials you towards your residential. Exactly. So, and and and I can kind of see why they they limit it and make you come back and all of that because just like when we were talking about the tire shop. Yeah. I mean, once you grant the storage, they can put anything any way on it. And the board can also um make it specific to this tenant if you wanted to. So that if Turner Scapes leaves

and another business comes in, they would have to come back before you and prevent pre present their plan for what they wanted to do. That's an option. Um you can make a commitment specific to this business if you wanted to. um that would control it a little bit for future uses if that was a concern. We we have some ways to work around or to not work around to um ease any tension or any future use of that property.

Um I I would just I I would just like to know how many we're talking four acres. I I think Karen, honestly, I think it's a little unreasonable to limit them to say you can use 40% of the slot for storage of equipment or to for them to tell you, I've got 12 pieces of equipment. That's all I'm going to store out there. That really limits them to buying a piece of equipment if they need to and having to come back every time they do that. Obviously,

maybe you say the city agrees to use 50% of it instead of 25% which is allowed and if they need more, they come back. I I'm I'm not sure what the answer is. Um well, obviously there was a concern about how much they were going to use when they enacted that ordinance and I've can see I mean that is the one way the city has if they have a problem with outdoor storage causing problems from the neighbors. too many trucks backing up, lights from trucks going back in. They're going to have to light it for security purposes. It's going to have to be well lit. Let me finish, please.

They're going to have to go through and and do all of that for there. It's going to have to do that. I personally would be more comfortable in knowing about not not the equipment, just do they think they're going to fill up 4,000 ft? What kind of stuff is going to go on there? I mean, is this is this how what I mean, how does Indianapolis handle this? The the type of stuff that's going to be on there is landscaping equipment. You're going to have a backhoe, a loader, um an excavator, um maybe a trailer or two that they haul their equipment on. I mean, your standard equipment for a landscaping company. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's And like I said, I can imagine they'd have cranes and stuff, but you know,

Best Equipment has cranes. Best equipment has cranes. They're within that. Well, like I said, I park I think that was put on there for some reason. I would like to know what the city of Indianapolis thinking was and how they treat this kind of an issue. Do they let because otherwise Well, Indianapolis doesn't Indianapolis doesn't get an opinion on this. No, but let you guys decide. They they may not have an opinion on it, but it's their 25% ordinance, isn't it? that says 25%. So if they have a reason that they enacted it, I would just like to know what it is. I'd like to know if it's common practice in Indianapolis for them to allow a company to just go on and do the 100%.

And I'm not going to call Indianapolis and ask them those questions. Well, then I I can vote. Okay. Yeah, we're getting in the weed, too. What does the board want to do? Does the board want to vote? I'd like is it consisted of the board to vote or do we want to continue with this to next month with additional information? I would like to continue it for with additional information. Yeah, I don't need additional information. Huh? I know. Okay. To continue. I need a motion and a second.

I'd like to to move that we continue this so that we know exactly what's going to happen with this property. We don't have our comprehensive plan. It's close to a residential area. We don't know what's going to happen with the residential. I just would like to know. So just and and the attorney for the petitioner has said that that can easily be done and we just wait a month. Is there a second? Not anymore.

Well, if there not being a second, we'll go into a vote and we'll be voting on 25 LSV1526 Point Dexter Drive. Uh, the city of Indianapolis consolidated zoning subdivision ordinance to allow the outside storage in excess of 25% of the building square footage within a 500 ft of a protected area. I don't think I I misplaced my number 15. I'm waiting for the You want to take

Is it possible to take a small recess after this? I cannot find my number 15. This has been a very Here it is. I know it has been and a five minute recess would be appreciated. I could Do I need to do a motion? No. After this. There you go. I would like

the vote is two to deny and three to grant. So it has been approved. The board will be taken a fivem minute recess. Okay, here you go. I'm still going to read your

Okay. The board of zoning appeals will reconvene. The next petition we'll hear is 25 LSV165850 Thunderbird Road, a variance of development standard of the city of Indianapolis Consolidated Zoning Subdivision Ordinance 743-306 to allow the installation of six electric vehicle chargers to serve electric school buses within the required setbacks. Good evening.

Good evening. My name is Alex Cook. Um I'm the chief engineer for uh First Student. We are uh the nation's largest uh hometoschool transportation company uh doiciled in Cincinnati, Ohio. I actually live in Columbus, Indiana. Um tonight uh we're here to request a review uh for our 5850 Thunderbird Road Bus depot location uh where we currently operate um our uh school buses from that location. Um we are on a journey to deploy electric school buses across this great nation of ours. And um it's a crawl, walk, run kind of a deployment um for a whole host of reasons when you're dealing with electric school buses. And um we are excited to bring to the local community um that start of bringing these electric vehicles uh especially for a yellow bus. And so we've got 10 that we would like to locate um at our 5850 Thunderbird Road location. And specifically um there's a I know there's a lot of information in these packets and forgive me, but we'll cut right down to if you look at the bottom first few pages um are some of the city of Lawrence uh feedback and then we get to our first student um site. And if you look in the very bottom right hand corner of the legend, uh there'll be a sheet number. So we want to go to and there there are several there just to walk through them real quick. Uh T1 is the overall and these are printed both front and rear were on the back side to save on trees. Um if you look at T1 there, that's just an overhead view

of the location. Um, and then as you scroll forward, we've got GN1, um, which is just some of the of our grounding notes and general notes for our construction. Um, we also have, uh, ownership and encumbrance map. And then as you move to Z1, uh, down in the bottom right hand corner, it uh, shows an overhead again of the subject property. And then on the back side of that is Z2 um that is um some zoning information and property owner list and then Z3 and then on the back side which would be Z4. So on Z3 if you look at plan north on this document um you can see where we have got where the darker lines are located. You can see where we have the 10 electric buses. Um there is charging infrastructure which are these six electric vehicle chargers that'll be right in front of those buses. And if you look at the dashed line, there's a 60 ft setback from Thunderbird Road there. And so specifically what we're requesting is to allow us to park with inside that 60 foot and to put those electric vehicle chargers in there. Now the electric vehicle chargers um currently there are block heating stansions in that area right now. So, when I talk about block heaters, um, for diesel powered school buses, when it gets really cold outside, we need to plug them in so we can start them uh, in the morning so we can take the children to school. In that same vicinity where those block heaters are currently, we would put the electric vehicle chargers. And the reason why

we're ultimately asking to do this where we are is because of where AES is bringing us the power. So, this is the closest point to where we can set a transformer. We're going to stay within the easement of the already existing AES utility, put a transformer in there, and it puts us closest to the point at which we're going to receive that power, which is where we would put these buses for the electric vehicle charging. Um, this u effectively um the chargers uh are about refrigerator size. Okay. And so we use what's called a ballasted system. And the ballasted system is an above ground system because um trenching in the ground um puts encumbrances on that property. And a lot of our properties we lease. So we use a ballasted system that that bases on jersey barriers. And jersey barriers, I'm sure that everybody in this room has seen a jersey barrier. There are what is on the highways to direct traffic. They're the concrete barriers. Okay? They're all over 465 and all the construction directing the flow of traffic. And so we use that exact same thing as our ballasted system for the chargers. And so you would have a line of Jersey barriers that are setting on grade with six of these refrigerator size. And if you go further um in the packet um on page we've I put all the specifications in here for you, but if you go to Z7 in that top plan view, it shows two Jersey barriers with this refrigerator sitting between them. That's the charger itself. So effectively a bus would come in, there would be a charge cord much like charging a golf cart. Um when the

drivers bring it in, they plug it in and we charge from uh public service. So we're excited about being able to uh bring electric vehicles to the local community. There's a whole litany of positives for this. um for every gallon of diesel fuel that we don't burn, um we um uh do not emit 22.2 pounds of CO2 into the atmosphere. Electric vehicles have um a huge impact on noise, noise pollution because it has a zero noise footprint. Um and at the vehicular vehicular level from a standpoint of greenhouse gases, it has a zero emission. So again, this is our first uh step to bring electric vehicles to the local community. Um and we're really excited about it and um I do appreciate your consideration in allowing us to um encroach into that 60oot setback there on um uh Thunderbird Road. I know that's a lot in a short time period. My apology. Um but any questions that I can feel? You said you had 10 electric buses, but you're asking for six charging stations.

Correct. Because um you in some of the instances you have two buses per one charger. Okay. They have two extension cords on. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yes. Just wanted to make sure. Absolutely. Well, that's great. Is there plan to do more in the future? We hope. Yes. And back to my crawl walk run.

Um what we like to do is put a managed amount into a local area for a given duty cycle. And so here in Indian Indiana Indiana, Indian Indianapolis, you know, the weather changes quite dramatically. Um, one of the big impacts is cold weather. And so we start off with 10 and you know, we like to expand that until we are a full location of electric vehicles. So the answer to that is yes, that would be our desire. We have the largest fleet of electric vehicles in North America from a school bus standpoint. We've run over 8.3 million miles of electric school bus um in all over North America. We've got 300 itself um up in the eastern part of Canada and then we've got I think another uh somewhere around 30 35 deployments here in the United States and uh we're expanding that dramatically. we have on the books somewhere around um over 1,500 to deploy here in the next 24 months. So, it's something that's exciting for the school bus industry. It's exciting for our children and you know I know that we all share the same goal to leave future generations a better place and this is a step in that direction. Now will the charge take take for each type like in the morning the morning session then they have to charge it and go back out in the afternoon.

Yes. So one of the things that we do is we we use a called a CMS charge management system because what we don't want to do is move into a community that may already be taxed for energy um because of demand right especially with AI data centers. It's unbelievable how much power is being required by AI data centers. So we try and manage that charge to where it is the least impactful for the utility and um the the rate payers that are on those lines. So, in our instance, like for example, um when they come back in the evening, they'll plug the bus in, but we won't start charging the bus until 9:00 p.m. Because most of the time, the highest demand on an energy grid is between 4:00 p.m. and 900 p.m. and then again around 5:30 a.m. to 9:00 a.m., right? Everybody gets up in the morning, the coffee pots are running, they turn the heat up. Same deal on the flip side, time to get ready for dinner in the afternoon or in the evening. So we try and curtail or hold off our charges to minimize the impact on everything.

So you have timers on them.

We do effective timers. It's all softwaredriven, but yes. And we can also limit the maximum amount of energy we're taking on board. So yes, we we really pay close attention to that because here's the other piece. There's also a time of use. There's a demand charge over and above what's charged on a kilowatt per hour basis. So, we have to manage all of that and make sure that we're we're getting the lowest cost of energy that we possibly can, right, for our customer, the Indianapolis public schools. Um, and secondarily, make the minimalistic impact to the um to uh the utility in which we're hooked to.

A question I I just curious, these charges, how long do they last? Are they disposable? I mean, what about the environment? What happens? Are these things ever got to be replaced? What happens to them after certain period of time or Well, there's a wide range in chargers and there's a wide range in, you know, you probably heard that old saying, you get what you pay for. Yeah.

Um, these are much on the higherend what's called DCFC's. Uh, DC current fast chargers. They are a um pretty expensive piece of equipment. We depreciate the bus over basically 12 years. And if you look at the charging infrastructure, which would include the charger, you know, it's in that um 7 to 8year time period. Okay. Yeah. So, what happens to them? How do you get better?

Well, we think we're going to get a lot more out of them than that. We hope so. We'd like to at least get the 12 years. Um and the thought process would be and there are already some manufacturers starting this a refurbishment program. So you would send them back to the manufacturer for uh example um ABB Corporation who's a big one out there who who does a lot of charging infrastructure. They're kicking off some processes like that where you would effectively send the charger back, it would get refurbished it and then you'd redeploy it to use it again. So like, you know, you have these rechargeable batteries. They're all smaller. I don't know if that concept would apply to something on that.

Well, the battery on the battery side of it, which is in the bus, right? Um, it's a 315 kilowatt battery. They're fairly big batteries, and those batteries uh should last the life of the bus. And the nice thing about those batteries are, and to not dive into the really technical because I'm an engineer from Purdue, um once those batteries re reach 80% state of health, then um they're no longer fit to do the duty cycle in the bus. The the nice thing about them is though is that they can come out of the bus and be repurposed as a standby energy source. Okay, so Tesla for example, Tesla's big around the globe in what they call with their mega pack, which is a battery energy storage system. Well, every time those bus batteries come out, that's going to be a battery energy storage system, which um redeploying it into the community in which we're operating greatly helps the community from a standpoint of power storage and delivery to not only the community, but as to uh as well the um utility that we're connected to. So, there's a lot of longstanding benefits to electrification of school bus in this case. That's good cuz sometimes you solve one environmental problem and you create another one.

True. Absolutely. Absolutely. Good point. Are you Are you currently I mean are you currently running buses out of this location? We are. And they're all um fossil fuel buses. I see. So you're converting. Correct. Um we're not adding. We're we're actually every time we put an electric bus in, we have to take a fossil fuel out under the EPA grants. Okay. My question, I guess here's a here's a question just for just for movement of buses because we talked about time restrictions on on the charging. Will replacement of the of the gasoline buses, replacing those with the EV buses? Mhm.

Will that make any difference for when the buses are entering and leaving the property? No. None whatsoever. Our same duty, you know, we still have to have the children to school and back home at the exact same time. So it doesn't make any difference if it's a gasoline, LP, diesel, or electric. They all have to go at the same time. Okay. And now and you said said this is homeschool kids or is this IPS? No, home to school. So home to school. Okay. So that's just IPS children. Yes. I I heard the same thing. Yeah. Sorry. Cuz that's where I'm I'm I didn't know because you know there's different homeschool programs where public schools. So this is for public schools. Yes, it is. Okay. Okay. Yes.

So, yes. Then I imagine the time would be have be the same. Yes. Because that I mean really if you're if we have restrictions on charging because that would be homeschool would be a lot easier to adjust, right? But there you know and there's not actual restrictions on charging. We do that to minimize the cost of energy and to minimize the impact to the utility. We can charge anytime we want. Are there other locations within the city of Indianapolis? Uh for for your for your company for First For Student? Yes. On the west side. Okay. Um how long has that been there? Quite a while. Have those gone to

I think you know I'm not I have one of my engineers here, Robert. Uh other locations in in when we took over IPS. We have two locations that that we got the contract. I think it's been five years or so. Yeah, I'm not sure the other address. My apologies. Okay, so first student is doing all the transportation. Okay. Cuz I thought it was Miller for some reason was doing I think they do some of it. I don't know that we do 100% of it. Okay. I'm not exactly sure of what that or is it the township schools percentages? Is IPS? It is. township has their own right cuz they they're down on uh

right that in the map. Yes. Sorry, we've been going so long tonight. I'm starting to to lose my train of thought. Okay. Um West Lambert Street is the other West Lambert Street. Have those gone to EV? Not yet. Not yet. So this other pilot this is Yes, correct. Okay. How many buses are running out of this location? I think that's what 100. Yeah, it's right at 100. Okay. And this is where Lawrence Township Bus Barn used to be actually, right? I think so. Cuz now they've built that new that brand new facility. So it's always been a bus. Yes.

Yeah. and to the I guess it I'm of course northsoutheast west but on the I'll call it the back side of us looks like um you know a mulch storage facility with with massive piles of mulch right across from where we're talking about putting the electric vehicles and you can see that I've gotten that in one of the overhead views. It's just an empty lot but then there's an industrial business caddy corner. Yeah, I I think I know. Yeah, I'm looking at the map and I'm hearing you talk and I think I know exactly what this is. I didn't I didn't go to the location, but I'm familiar with the old bus location for the township schools. Okay.

And this is probably more question for the city, but we're here today because the the EV charging chargers are considered a temporary structure. Well, our deployment of how we do that is um it's not permanent, but as I read, you know, um the constraints on the time of 18 months, you know, our contract again is, I think, five years. So, we would have to exceed that even though we're not trenching and we're not permanently putting this equipment there. So, it's kind of a an odd area there. Now, the transformer is going to get set the AES public utility transformer is going to get set on a concrete poured pad, but it's in their easement already.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's utility stuff. Um, but I guess I'm I'm trying to understand why this is considered So, it's not a stick in the ground. No. Is it like on wheels? No, it's it's on jersey barriers. Can you explain to me what that means? So, if you go to C7, yeah, it's in right here in the top left. Uh, the Jersey barrier are the concrete barricades that you see out at the beginning. Maybe I you explained it at the beginning. Yeah. So, those concrete barriers just set on the ground and we run our wires behind them. M

it's not going to tip over in a strong breeze, is it? No. I wonder what what's it sitting on? What's the material? Is it concrete? It's concrete. Yeah. It's the same jersey barriers that are all over I I4 I465. I don't understand why this is considered temporary because it's because it it's temporary because it's not permanently affixed to the ground. Exactly. Yeah. That's what I'll be really honest. I don't know what Jersey, but you see them all the time. I see them. Yes. What? Thank you for the picture because that's actually very helpful. That's actually very helpful.

Nobody knows what there is. So I wonder the only reason that you all are are h required to come here tonight is because you're going to it's a temporary burial and barrier and you need it more than 18 months. That's the only purpose of your variance for tonight. Correct. And to encroach upon that 60oot setback. Oh, and to encroach upon the But you're not going to be in the rightway, right? No, we're not going to be out in the road. We are going to there's a 60 foot setback and maybe Rene can help us from the center line of the road.

Um and we're going to encroach upon that. We're not going into the road. We're going to stay on our inside of the fence because there's a fence actually that runs right down the edge of Thunderbird uh Lane. We're not going into that. So if the city came and said, "You got to move these cuz we're going to come through and do this construction. No big deal, right?" Yeah, that's correct. And you're already using the same parcel for buses and everything, right? That's correct. So, the only thing is is by putting these concrete barriers into what would be the um uh ride of way. Setback. Setback. Correct. So, okay. Aren't you glad you have this one and not the last one?

I I to be honest with you, I welcome questions. I really do. I would appreciate because you know it's an educational part because this is new technology that we're bringing into the communities and I welcome. If we have more time I'd ask you because I have friends who argue this back and forth. Okay. So with gasoline you get uh air emissions and everything because you're burning the gasoline. Correct. But on electrical vehicles you're still getting air emissions because you got to burn coal to generate the electricity.

Well you have to look at that in two different two different lenses. One is at the vehicular level. Okay. So, a fossil fuelpowered gasoline, diesel, uh, LP, natural gas at the vehicle level, yes, emits, uh, greenhouse gases. Okay. And there's six bad ones that have been identified by the EPA. At the vehicular level, an electric vehicle does not. There's no combustion of anything.

Okay. Now, different scenario. Where does the energy come from? Okay, so you've got a multitude of sources. We've got, you know, for example, Duke Energy, a lot of solar, um natural gas, right? Nuclear, hydro, a lot of our stuff up in um uh uh Eastern Canada, uh is done by Hydro Quebec, which is pretty doineeringly, um um hydro. So, it's all generated by water through turbines. So it depends on where you are and what the infrastructure is to generate the power. You are correct. Tennessee Valley Authority, a lot of water, right? So and then if you go into some of the states in the west, there are some still coal burning plants, but those are going by the wayside, right? um we're seeing that um and they're either transitioning to a lot more solar or they're going to natural gas or other means. So, we are seeing history unfold in front of our eyes in the transition to better, cleaner resources. We're just not there yet.

We had coal in Indiana, too. We do have coal in Indiana. Yes. A lot of coal. You are correct. Who's your energy? Um I believe they still have some coal fired plants. and they they serve a lot of the REMC's, Rural Electric. Um, where I live in Columbus, I live between Columbus and Nashville, we're an REMC. So, I think a lot of ours comes from coal fired.

I mean, that's it's it's it is fascinating. And now, if they they're lifting all the things and trying to encourage more use of coal, there's so it's kind of then eats up the benefits of using electric. I I mean, of using that. So, I don't know. I can't pretend to figure it out, but I bet you they're going to have lots of questions for you're you're employed for as long as you want on this in this kind of thing. Okay, we're going to go ahead and move forward. All right, let's vote. Okay, we'll hear from any remmonstrators that are for or against the petition. Then we'll hear from the Oh,

counselor. Swear me. And um I'm Liz Merur. Uh I'm on the common council and I'll swear you in if you swear. I mean if you have not done so. Okay. No. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you.

So um I just want to say that this is a great opportunity so to please consider doing this. Thank you. Renee Rafa, director of public works. Um, zoning code does allow temporary equipment for 18 months with an ex extension of another 180 days, so for a total of 24 months. the request to install the EV chargers within the required setback and use for longer than the 24 months permitted. The city doesn't have an issue with this. It's going to be in the setback, but it's not within the rightway. So, as Karen was asking earlier, if we needed to do something on the road, this isn't going to affect it. Um, we think it's a good idea.

Thank you. Any questions for Renee? Thank you, petitioner. Anything else to add? The board will be voting on a ve a variance, what is this? 25 LSV16, variance of development standard of the city of Indianapolis consolidated zoning subdivision ordinance 743-306 to allow the installation of six electric vehicle chargers to serve electrical school buses within the required setback. The board has unanimously granted your petition with no Oh, is there anybody here

for petition 25 LSV-126202 Sunnyside Road? $50 a meeting. With there not being any, then the Lawrence Board of Zoning Appeals is adjourned.