Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Okay. Today is July 15, 2025. The Lawrence Board of Zoning Appeals is called to order at this time. I need a motion and second for the approval of the minutes from June 17, 2025. I'll make a motion to approve and I second. All those in favor signify by I. I. I. All those opposed, nay. Minutes stand as written. If you have not done so, please sign in at the back of the room. And anyone wishing to speak tonight, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Answer with I do. Thank you.

Thank you. Do we have any special requests tonight? Continuence, withdrawals, or waiverss. Okay. With there not being any, we'll start with new business. 25 LSV10 4700 North Post Road partial 4002431 City of Lawrence LCD number two zone C4 Autozone Development LLC Viva Joseph D Cauldron Barnes and Thornberg LLP requests the variance of development standard of the city of Indianapolis Consolidated Zoning Subdivision Ordinance Chapter 742 section 07 0.2 table 742-202-2 Ford AutoZone retail store on existing partial which is 5.5 acres in size which is classified as an automotive motorcycle and light vehicle service or repair such use limited to lots no larger than.5 acres. Thank you and good evening uh Chairperson Lidle, members of the board. Joe Cauldron, 11 South Meridian here in Indianapolis. Um we're hopeful that this uh variance makes uh complete sense to you and each of you should have an exhibit book that I can walk you through. But the the crux of the variance request is this. As you all know, and particularly along this stretch, this is the old go-kart facility just north of 46th and Post. During the pandemic, um I actually represented the owners on our reszoning. There was some notion that it was going to be a I think a banquet catering facility. That deal fell through. So, we all know the state

of disrepair that that property is in. It really doesn't look very good. Um my client and with me tonight is Jason Hall with Prism Engineering, the civil engineer on this. Um our client Autozone uh has a store just to the north of the subject property and proposes to put a new larger store on this existing 5 1/2 acre parcel. The purple line uh runs along uh post um between Pendleton Pike and 46th and as such uh the there's an application of the transit oriented development overlay ordinance. Um a lot of that those requirements are related to form how they want buildings to front on the street. etc. Last November, uh, this board granted, previously granted a special exception for the size of the store as well as some other development standard variances. Some of you may recall that we're here today because uh at permits uh at the city of Indianapolis, they said, "Oh, uh AutoZone, we classify you as an auto service facility, not really a retail store. Um about a year ago there was a different interpretation downtown but be that as it may we have to play by the rules um that the permit uh folks uh enforce. So the long and the short of it is, as the secretary read of the record, is the transit oriented overlay wants to limit

auto repair and service facilities to halfacre lots. Well, this lot is 5 1/2 acres. Um, and Swordley needs to be redeveloped. um the size store that was approved by special exception is more than a half acre itself. So there's a tremendous practical difficulty. What we think that you will appreciate is the fact that um if you turn to tab four and there's two plans that are folded and if you unfold them you will see the site plan uh which is different than the configuration that you saw last November really to the city's benefit. This plan essentially eliminates the parking between uh post and the building um the west facing uh building. Uh the plan that you uh saw last November had parking um along Post Road and you can see that in tab 7. So, we know that the city administration and perhaps even some board members wanted to see a little different uh frontage feel on post. So, that is now going to be landscaped green space. If you turn to the second uh plan in um tab 4 and in fact if you look at this overall plan, we are uh you can kind of see the outline of the go-kart track. We are actually um a little more than 50% uh green space, landscape space uh with this site. Uh which we think justifies the variance because really the the

building and improvements um paving etc. We're trying to minimize to the best of our ability while still meeting our code requirements. So, as you can see, this is a very large parcel in and it of itself. We're It's clearly more than a half acre. It's in existence today, and that's really the variance that we're seeking is just to be able to develop this parcel, which is larger than the.5 acres. The other point I want to make is that AutoZone we consider really to be more of a retailer than a service facility. They do help people that come in and say, "Hey, I got a headlight out, things like that, but they don't have service bays or any they don't do oil changes and things like that." So, it's really more of a retail store, which would not necessarily fall within this halfacre limitation. You can see um what the store would look like in tab 6. Um, it would be very attractive, good quality materials, plenty of glass, uh, storefront, etc. And, uh, for posterity's sake, I did include a copy of the, uh, letter, uh, that, uh, Renee had drafted following the board's approval last November. In case you're not familiar with the site, I do always include an aerial photo that's in tab one. I'm certain that you all are familiar with the site. Um, and I did in include some uh street photos in tab three just to kind of show you and remind you of the flavor of the area which is frankly very retail centric. Uh, it's got some auto repair. You can see, you know, the old go-kart sign and a billboard and things of that nature um

within those street photos. And then, you know, wrapping around the west side of Post, you've got a multifamily, a little bit of commercial, you've got special use school across on the south side of 46th Street, and then you have um clearly the existing improvements of the go-kart track that are there. So we're in essence reducing impervious adding landscaping and dealing with a site existing site condition that we think justifies the variance. Set out notices. Haven't heard anything from anybody and we're happy to answer any questions that you may have as a board. Thank you. Thank you.

If I remember correctly, isn't this going to be like a warehouse? It's kind of a regional store. So, it will have all the retail function plus uh much like um many facilities, it will also serve the needs for other smaller retail stores in the area. So, it's just yes, they will run product from this store to other stores, but everything you need um you know, from a retail perspective will be there. Jason, do you want to add anything to that comment or is that about it? That's about it.

There will be more employees than a typical store, which is a good thing. Um, but it's not it's not functioning as a distribution warehouse. It's kind of a it's a distribution facility, but with smaller goods, not like a bulk warehouse that you would see with, you know, hu huge amounts of trucks and loading docks. Is this the same size building that you came to us in November with? Yes. Okay. 32,05. Yes. Yeah. It is it is a curious it is a curious interpretation of uh auto service. Yes.

Center because I I think I would classify AutoZone as more retail, but I do recognize some people do the DIYs in the parking lot. Yeah. Um, I remember and we were here for a long time in November and I think the main issue there was with the purple line with the parking spaces in the front uh and we were concerned about safety with pedestrian traffic. So, I I do appreciate the new drawing. I think that that was really the hangup in November. Y um for the pedestrian traffic. So, um I don't know that I have any questions per se, but I do appreciate moving all the parking to the back. I think that was really the hardest part of that decision back in November.

You can thank the engineers for figuring that out. But it's going to present, I think, a look and a feel that should be more appropriate and less conflicting with, you know, some of the goals that the transit oriented overlay is trying to achieve, which is it's not to get rid of cars. It's just to make it easier for folks to get where they need via transportation and that includes obviously some level of walking. Yes. So,

okay. Um, yeah. I don't know that I have any any questions. I think you've already kind of spoke to the fact that there will be the retail aspect in addition to the warehouse, but I think they we discussed that back in November. Yeah. So, it's just kind of a lot of discussion back then. Sorry. It wasn't that one, but I heard about it. Yes. Yeah. It's just kind of a curious interpretation. Yeah. But that's all. I'm I'm sorry. My name is Danielle Roer. Um I was not here for those discussions in November. Um but I did note on the the outline in number one that there is currently a AutoZone Parts Yes. store there. So would that then close and then this would Okay. Yes.

Okay. I was I was just wondering. Yes, that is that is absolutely correct. The drama. Okay. Okay. Um Okay. Thank you. That's what Thank you. Any other questions? No. Thank you, sir. Thank you. We'll hear from anybody for or against the petition. Did he get sworn in? Were you sworn in earlier? No, ma'am. I I just got here. Just step on. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Answer with I do.

Yes, ma'am. Uh my name is Joseph West. I'm born and raised here in Lawrence. And actually, poster wreck was my first job. So, I had noticed the signs got sort of hidden from public view on this meeting and took a photo. Hearing what you guys explained of your worries of traffic being on the west side, the parking issues, you said that was going to become open green space on the west side facing towards Post. Yes, exactly.

Okay. My inquiry here today would be I know the previous owner of Poster Wreck, although nothing happened with the property, they had spent a deal of money redoing the putt putt course there. If that's going to become green space, would it be so hard to keep the putt putt course as a part of the facility to kind of bring back or keep a little bit of the old with something new going there? because it would save you money on the landscaping for that.

I don't I don't That's a good question. Do you aware of the existing that area is actually Well, they have a pond there already that was in the center of that. Could that be worked into your storm water? So that is could you use that storm drainage as the pond? I think due to the size

it was just an inquiry of mine. That's a fair question because I know yeah the person that I think I think it was bought by a church group at one point. the last um people I used to know his name and have his number, but they had been redoing that to be bring funds to help redo the whole thing and then I know there was a water main break one winter and after that I never really heard from him again there. I don't know that it's a problem if somebody wanted to reclaim the putt improvements and relocate it somewhere else. I don't know that it would work. Yeah. No, I was just just trying to keep from what you were saying with that being a green space now. It was like everything you were saying kind of fell into what I was trying to

Sure. Of course. Make a statement about, but yeah, that's all I came in for today. Not a problem. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else here for or against the petition? Counselors,

we'll hear from the city of Lawrence. Renee. Good afternoon. Renee Rafa, interim director of public works. The city is in support of this petition. We were in support of it back in November when it was first heard. We greatly appreciate the revision and moving the parking lot to the other side off of Post Road. That's a really big ask that we did and that they've accommodated. This is just a formality. We thought that we had all the tees crossed and eyes dotted and then when they went to Indianapolis they came back and said, "Oh, no. We think you need this one more thing." So, we would appreciate it if the board would support this and do a favorable vote.

Thank you, Renee. Any questions for Renee? No, ma'am. No thank. Sir, do you have anything else to add? We do not. Thank you. Okay. Then the board be ready to vote? Yes. The board will be voting on 25 LSV10 4700 North Post Road uh Autozone development request for a varance of development standards of the city of Indianapolis Consolidated Zoning Subdivision. The board has unanimously granted your petition. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Thank you. Now the board will hear 25 LUSB11 9140 Harrison Park Drive partial 4001638 city of Lawrence LCD number 3 zone DP 915556 Street Indiana LLC by Pivotal Housing Partners request a variance of use development standard of chapter 742 article 1 section 3 to permit development of residential use consistent with a D9 zoning for a 37 unit age restricted senior housing. Go ahead, sir.

Thank you so much for your time and your service here. Uh I know that uh this is important work done at every municipal level. Um I am also going to start by sort of summing up the request. Uh obviously the zoning code is a mouthful. Uh but functionally what we are asking for is to build a multifamily senior building on a lot that is currently designated for a light industrial use right behind the Harrison Center. Um we think it makes a lot of sense uh there. Um and the use was determined as part of a PUD uh back when the original Fort Harrison redevelopment plan was determined. it's now developed commercial around it and we think a residential building back there makes uh makes a lot of sense. Um but I want to start a little bit with who we are. Um you may know our property one Penrose Place. Uh you know it is Oh, I'm turned around but I think it's right there about you know 300 yards.

Um so uh we are an affordable and workforce housing developer. Uh we focus on smaller developments, large enough to sustain a full-time management staff, but small enough to create a community rather than a you know sort of set of anonymous neighbors. Um we're active in 17 states. We have over 16,000 units and we're a long-term owner. Uh we have developed over 120 properties. We've only parted ways with five in that uh in that last 28 years. So it gives you an idea of uh what our model is in terms of holding there. Um this project is going to be purpose-built senior housing. Um one in three seniors is cost burdened by housing in Marian County. It's becoming and you know and and the problem is getting worse. Um we see that in the headlines today, but we see that in the statistics and the data as well. It drives the demand. What we call the capture rate for this project is less than 1%. That means of the seniors who are of eligible age for this property, it's less than 1% of the population in about a three and a half mile capture uh area. It's a little bit of a term. Normally we see five or six% and so it gives you an idea that the demand here is five or six times as strong as it is in uh in other markets that we operate. Um, this project also has a lot of walkable amenities. You have a choice of three different banks that are a short walk from the property. You can get your nails done, your hair cut, you can get lunch, you can get breakfast, you can get dinner, you can get coffee, you know, cookie at Panera Bread. It makes a lot of sense from that standpoint. It's also in the transit oriented development corridor. Uh, and I think that, you know, adds to the options for seniors who are less likely to be driving by

choice and sometimes not by choice. And so then the last piece that I think this really makes sense and it was in our petition is this lot doesn't really make any sense for light industrial anymore. Given those neighbors, those commercial kind of neighbors, you wouldn't want trucks coming in and out of this lot. It may have made sense, you know, in 2007 when the uh when the village at the fort plan was written, but now given the development that's happened around it, uh this I think is the highest and best use of the property. Um and so, you know, we're trying to respond to a need. We know that seniors uh prefer one-bedroom apartments. Um so, we're very heavy on that one. We have provided one parking space per unit on the site. Uh that does meet the code. So we don't need any variance related to that. But it is good to know that the declarations of that shopping center give our tenants and their guests access to the parking that's just adjacent behind the Harrison Center. If you're familiar with that site, there's that little uh that old bank teller building that sits out there and then a parking lot that provides a great deal of additional parking for our residents. Um it is a small site. We are not maximi maximizing the density on this site. though the D9 zoning would allow us to do up to about 50 units, but just the practical site size and layout in order to get the parking and unit mix that we were looking for. We didn't need to maximize the uh density of that zoning. So, I kind of wanted to point that piece out. Um, and then my next two pages are just pictures that we can come back to if they make sense. They are conceptual in design. We have not gone uh through full architectural design. We've reviewed the codes and these uh I

believe meet all of the requirements of the uh of the planning overlay. Uh but we're open to comments and still need to work with village staff to find the right pallet and colors and final design. Um and then there's uh a little bit more of a detailed site plan. This is also in your packet. It has some of the dimensions to confirm that we meet all of the other requirements. Again, this variance is uh just for the use. It doesn't require any other variances once that use is granted under the PD. Um and the next one is our floor plan also available in your packet, but I wanted to call out that we do have, you know, your your typical amenities. There's a community room with a kitchen, a a computer center on site. Um, we strive to provide light touch uh, supportive services, right? We want to build a community at our properties. We found the best ways to keep it clean, to keep it well-maintained, and to keep tenants in long term is to have them really appreciate where they live and think of it as home, not a apartment or a house. Um, and so we really strive for that. We plan fun stuff in the community room. We plan outreach stuff. Uh we've already been talking to some of the service providers in the area about what the options are and we have a service coordinator in Indiana uh who focuses on our portfolio here making sure that they get high quality uh services that some are delivered regionwide and some very specific and some local. Uh we'll also have an activity room and a workout room on the upper floors. We like to encourage you know uh that interaction and you know some fitness. Um and then I wanted to just take you through the timeline so that everybody understands. Uh our goal now is to be successful in

this hearing and then uh apply for funding. That's always an important factor in this. Um once we secure the funding for the project we would uh embark on you know full architectural civil and structural uh design to bring this project online. We would uh look to close in Q4 of 2020 uh 2025 um assuming that we are you know successful at all these milestones and uh and then get in the ground early in the spring of 2026. Um, you know, that's always a good time to start construction. It's we could probably move a little faster, but it really doesn't make sense to break ground on a new construction project in January. It just adds to the complications, the timeline, and the cost. So, we're hoping to hit, you know, sort of that April 1 kind of date. Um, and with that, I'll just open it up to your questions. Uh, I'm happy to go into specific or big picture pieces. What kind of lighting are you going to have here?

Uh, exterior or interior? Exterior. I guess that's a silly question. So, LED is the technical question to both of the What is the parking lot going to be lit? Is there going to What kind of lighting is going to be outside? Uh, so it'll be LED lighting on site for the parking. Uh my understanding from our designers is that uh we need to limit the lumens to the property boundaries. So we'll be providing light just for our site uh without overlapping in you know it'll be shaded to not overlap into our neighboring properties.

And when you say affordable housing can you define that exactly what do you mean by that? It'll be limited to folks who make bel or below 80% of the area of median income. Um, and that does change uh that that number changes annually. Um, but there will be an income verification process for each resident uh who applies to make sure that they meet that qualification. And what are we looking price-wise for these? For the most part, these units,

uh, the onebedrooms, I think, are going to likely to come on just below 900. Uh, and the two bedrooms, uh, probably about 1,100, one side or the other. Um, will this be funded by the federal government or any federal? Uh, we are seeing low-income housing tax credits, which is part of section two of the IRS code. the parking lot in the back. Sorry you guys. No, you're fine. The parking lot that the going into the Harrison Center. Okay. There is all kinds of Chuck Holts right there where they would be pulling in.

Who's going to be fixing those? So, that is actually on our land and we have an agreement with the owner to bring that up to standard. Uh they are going to fund a portion of that work and we are as well. Uh that driveway is part of an easement so it will remain access for the entire development but we wanted to make sure it was brought up to a uh let's call it brand new standard with our brand new building. I cannot however speak for the rest of the property. Um my concern was right there. Yeah. Yeah. I drove I hear you.

I go by it all the time. I live around here so I go by it all the time and there are some big tug holes there. First time I walked the property, I said, you know, people can't come into this brand new building and, you know, drive across this stretch. It is a fairly active drive. Uh we haven't done a traffic study, but we did a more informal count. Uh you know, there's there's a good bit of traffic on that road and the um the shopping center owner is also the seller of the property. So the it made sense for us to share bringing that up to uh up to you know new. My other concern is seniors and accidents you know making sure that Yeah. because that's a narrow driveway in the back back there.

It is the one. Yeah. To the north of the property. It is. Um, and it is a little funny with that old sort of remote building. Will that be tore down? Uh, that will not. That is on the shopping center property. It is not on our site. Okay.

But it is it is a little it is a little goofy there. Uh thankfully, I think that that's or that is intended to be a one-way drive aisle, that narrow drive aisle. And so we have uh we did agree with the owner to increase the signage. we're probably going to pay for it. It's gonna match the other signage, you know, no parking kinds of stuff on our site, your typical signage, but to make it clearer that that is a one-way uh drive aisle. Okay. Thank you. Does the board have any other questions? Yeah, I'm sorry. And is this and are these seniors that have health issues or are these just seniors who have housing issues?

Just housing issues. This is an independent living. So, it's not an assisted living center. We do provide, you know, activity planning and some of that stuff, but uh this is for independent seniors 55 and up because based on the rendering, I mean, where's the sidewalk? I guess that's where what I'm what I'm concerned about is ingress and egress from the property. So, where are people go? You we talk about, you know, going to Panera, but I mean it it is a heavy traffic area. And so I'm looking for is are there sidewalks? There's no sidewalks there now. There's no sidewalks there now, right?

We have um you know, we have well the the public works is back there and there's there's the various retail. Um but how do you get from that property to the retail? They will have to walk through the parking lot. Yes. And that that's a concern. Um Yeah. Or potentially around the outside. We have not made the connection but uh we could connect. Will there be shuttles? I mean how do you how do if if uh if one of our f our relatives were to move into here for example? Um and would would someone have to be from the family coming to transport them or I guess how how do people leave come and go?

I I I mean I I think that it's well connected with the shopping center to the north. So, there's a uh blocked off and cross-hatched uh walkway that crosses to the sidewalk that wraps around the actual Harrison Center building. So, our expectation uh was that with the parking lot there and the Harrison Center uh shopping center there that people would be coming from that direction primarily. Uh it is actual uh it's actually light industrial businesses I believe on the and commercial businesses on the other side of Harrison Park Drive. Right. This is on the other side of that access road though. Huh.

Isn't this is on the other side of the access road from the retail? Uh no this is on the same side as the This is behind the the kidney plate. Yeah. Sorry here. I should have included a site. Then this is here. But then you've got this road here which has no sidewalks. Yeah, I don't. And there's no sidewalks here because it's behind Culver's, right? Uh, no, it's a little bit more next to Culver's. Sorry. It's a map.

Yeah. Um, so you would not have to cross any roads to access the retail. You would have to cross a road to reach. Oh, I see. Thank you. That makes sense. Yeah. Sorry. And so I our thinking was that there is not sidewalks on Harrison Park Drive to connect to. So while we could put them in along Harrison Park Drive, I don't believe there's anything to connect to on the adjacent lots. So we thought that all foot traffic would go through the through the shopping center. Yeah. Uh through the parking lot.

Yeah. As as opposed to a deadend sidewalk. There is, as I said, uh it is a blocked off and cross-hatched. It's a wellmarked uh pedestrian walkway through the parking lot, but there's there's no getting around that it would require walking through the parking lot to reach the Harrison Center and the rest of the retail

because from a zoning perspective, all the residential is on the other side of 56th and and you're saying you don't think you disagree with the zoning of being light industrial. I I think the site what remains of this site uh you know was originally zoned light industrial be before this entire project uh was built out before the dialysis center the uh the two outlier banks uh even the culvers um and so all of those are under uh under a variance uh for for their use um and I I don't think it makes sense to put a light industrial next to a dialysis center, a bank, and a nail salon. I think the traffic would be of a much different nature. You would have, you know, trucks going in and out on an already narrow drive aisle, and the size of the lot is really probably too small to attract those kind of businesses. Um, you know, less than an acre and a quarter is a pretty tight site. I'm I'm not saying that there isn't a light industrial business that fits that size site. Uh but uh we have you know to my understanding no one has proposed that in a long time. Uh this land has been vacant since the dialysis center was built I believe eight years ago. It's kind of the last parcel left uh as part of this development. Well, my understanding is when we had the closure of the base that everything, all housing had to be north of 56th Street and industrials below um south of 56th Street, which was going to be a question I was going to ask Renee. Has that changed just recently or is that still

That's what the PUD calls for and that's why we're here today because this development is That's perfect variance to allow the residential

residential. It's actually commercial that the multi-use for a residential purpose in this area that's zoned industrial, but any project for this lot would have to come before the board unless it was like industrial and met those requirements. He's not wrong in that this size of the lot is a little more difficult. Um we have talked to the reuse authority and they're in support of it and so is the city when we get to my part. But um lighting you had asked about Becky. They um will have to go through plan review and that is one of the requirements that we look at and the lighting will have to match. is the Washington style that's throughout the fort. That's part of the PUD and can't be varianced.

What about the brick? That all the brick, the windows, the color of the shingles, all of that will be determined by the PUD. We're not asking for exception to that. Right. Okay. But I thought just I thought the reuse had changed it to change the brick to what the commercial building is down here where Jacamo is. that falls within the parameters of what was allowed in the PUD. Okay. And I mean, they'll have to pro provide samples of the colors and the brick and the asphalt shingles and the windows. All of that will have to conform to what's around it, okay?

And meet the standards. What we're asking for today is permission to build a senior living facility in an area that was originally designated for industrial. Okay. And that's really the only variance that's needed for this development. I mean, it would almost it would almost be safer if they were homebound seniors with health issues because then I wouldn't be concerned about walking through parking lots

and so You can provide if you guys wanted to a commitment that there will be pathways laid out hatched or whatever. Maybe they could put in caution signs. Uh kind of like we do at regular intersections where you push a button and there's yellow or red lights or something. If you guys wanted to go that route, if you're

we certainly want everyone to be safe. We re we or I recognize the limitations of this lot. It is largely surrounded by parking lot. Um you know I I do think there's a possibility for egress through the dialysis center, but even that would take you through a small parking lot before you met up with sidewalk. I mean, I think the problem is the safest time to walk through the parking lot would then become at night when the when because there these this is office buildings up here. So when the office buildings are closed, then there would be less traffic and then and then they walking in the dark. I just and we're far from the the bus stop.

This the parking lot is quite well lit. Um you know that the Harrison Center also had to comply with the PUD requirements. Yeah. Um, so I I do think it's a fair it's a well-lit uh parking lot. Uh, but it is still walking through a parking lot. It's still walking through a parking lot. Yeah. There's uh Yeah. How much liability insurance are you going to carry?

Yeah. Um, certainly I and and I recognize your concern. Um, I think what I've found in in my time developing sites is that that none are perfect. I think you've identified one of the ways in which this is uh this is less than uh perfect. Uh but I do think it's a manageable situation. I think the uh owners of the Harrison Center obviously want everyone to be safe in their parking lot too. So, you know, I think I can speak from them when I say we can, you know, take uh we can take the measures to make sure that it is as safe as possible. Um you know, but they do need that parking. It's not like we could turn it into a green space.

Well, and I think that I think the fort's a great place to live when you're uh retired. Uh you know, my own parents live uh well, they live in Boston Commons, which is on the other side of 56. Then you can walk to to through the through the Fort Ben. Um and you can walk through all the different restaurants. But the difference is they have walking paths, bike paths. And here, I'm just being real honest. I would not be comfortable with my parents living here. I just I feel like there are too many risks, too many safety risks. So, uh I don't and I don't know that I don't know that anything changes for me. Uh paths, more lighting because I think that I think the risk is the location for me. Just being completely honest. Is there a use that would make more sense because it presented less pedestrian risk?

Yeah, like I said, if if it was homebound senior, seniors that were not coming and going, I think that that would be for me less because now we don't now we don't have people ingressing egressing. I I I was just thinking of the other uses in that center. Um, you know, there's there's pedestrian traffic. I was trying to understand if there was a comparable use. Um I think homebound seniors is a good example

and that's kind of why I was I was asking at the beginning is this for people seniors who are looking for homes or is the seniors who are needing medical service because if if seniors needing medical you have the dialysis center right there you've got physical therapy back there. There's different and then you have the the the every I mean everything is right over there the community stuff. Absolutely. Those amenities are are great. I get it. I I I for sure understand I for sure understand it. But for me, um it's the safety risk. Any other questions at this time? No.

Thank you, sir. Anybody here for against the petition? Miss Council Robinson, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you.

My name is Betty Robinson. I live at 8055 Boxdale Way here in the city of Lawrence. I am also a city council counselor. Counselor, thank you so much for your insight. I work with seniors in the past a lot and I still interact with the seniors. seniors are not going to walk around on that for they're not going to do it. For one thing, they've got the health issues. You say, he said 55 and older, they're going to age in place. They're going to stop using all the facilities on the fort because of their health. They do not need to attend any restaurants on the fort because they don't serve foods that they can even eat. So, they they're not going to walk to a restaurant. They can't go to the dialysis center right there behind them because they have to have a designated driver. So, they aren't going to walk to the dialysis. They got to have someone to pick them up. So, there aren't any there aren't many services on the fort or any at all that scenes are are even going to connect to because they're going to have to drive if they can drive.

If not, as she said, where's the transportation to take them around to places on the floor? They're not going to drive. If they can, they can't. Um, some of the health issues that's going to prevent them from utilizing the fort or driving. Vision. Yes. Vision. Okay. Cataracts, cornea, eye drops. It's not going to happen. Then I heard you say, what was it? 80% of the income, median income. Now, let's get let's be specific. Are you talking the in the housing choice section 8 voucher?

No. Or are you talking section 42? Section 42. Section 42, which means they're going to pay more of their income towards rent. Do we not hear this just about every day? Because the rent on the fort is high

and someone's paying 60% of the income. Incomes haven't gone up yet. or or are we talking not we aren't talking low income people there because section 42 is not cheap. It's not cheap. That's not like section 8 where you pay 30% of your income. It's totally different. Ladies, let me share that with you. They're going to be paying a lot more rent. Then where where they're going to go after they are after they are inhouse the second month trustes office. I need assistance with my rent because they are not going to be able to pay it. Section 42 is not cheap. Who benefits from section 42? The owner,

not the resident. And I don't mean to cut into your I don't mean to tear you down like this. Section 42 only benefits the owner. And it's not going to be 100% section 42 in that building. Only a few select units are going to be section 42. Not it's not be 100% section 42. You guarantee that? Yes. I've never seen it, but if that happens, fine. I hope it does.

I I've just And the rents, as I've stated, I think they're reasonable and below the market. That's our goal is to deliver a high quality product at a below market rent. I've looked at the rents. I think 900 and,100 are below market substantially. But that's you can't say it's going to be 900 for the rent if a person is paying a percentage of their income towards that's not how section 42 works. Section 42 we set rents and we are not allowed to increase them more than 3% on an annual basis. Okay. So the rent stay low. We're going to see you do that. Thank you for that clarification. Thank you for that clarification. people and and we do it because those are the rules of the IRS.

Okay. Yeah. So, and I hope because it is a it is a uh it is a a tax write off for the owner. So, if what he is saying is great. That'd be great. I we'll hold you to that. Yeah, you absolutely should. Okay. We we do need transportation for the residents that are going to be living there because even that ingress and degress ingress is that on it's coming and going. I said coming and going. Is that on the curve? No. Is that entering? Is that on the curve? No, it's in the parking lot. It's in the Where is that? We didn't want them coming out on the main Fort Harrison drives,

right? We're utilizing the parking lot. We didn't That's all parking lot walk lots. Yeah. We don't want to increase traffic or add another I mean I see there's a gazebo. So this is going to be Oh, and then there's the main street. So there's like the little gazebo. Here's where that little building is. The kiosk is right there. This is the entrance Becky was talking about. And then this is that drive that goes to the center. That's good. Okay. I'm done, ladies. Okay. Thank you for the time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Is there anybody else for or against it? Renee the city of Lawrence. Rene Renee Rafalev interim city uh director of public works. Um I've already told you our position on it. For the record, we are in support and so is the reuse authority. They would have to go through plan review, meet all of the requirements for the reuse authority as a for lighting, parking, all of that. Um, did you have any other questions that haven't already been answered that maybe I can help with? I don't think so.

I think I got all my answers. Thank you. Petitioner, do you have anything else to add? Do you have anything for the petitioner? No. Okay. Thank you. The board now ready to vote. Yes.

The vote board will be voting on 25 LUSV, 9140 Harrison Park Drive, 91556 Street, Indiana. the PI po PO POV um housing partners uh request a variance of use and development standard of chapter 742 article 1 section 3 to permit development of residential use consistent with a D9 zoning for 37 unit H restricted senior housing The board has granted your petition 3 to one. There we go. If there's no other business, the Lawrence Board of Zoning Appeals is adjourned.