Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

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e e e e okay yes we're live today is February 18th 2025 the Lawrence Board of zoning appeals is called to called to order at

this time tonight we need to elect a president and a vice president so we'll start with the nominations for president are there any nominations I'll nominate you Becky I'll second thank you any other nominations that being uh said nominations are closed by unms yes I'll accept the presidency um now we need a vice uh president still have to vote we still nominate wait wait minut you still have to vote oh okay Renee says we do have to vote so those all in favor of electing me as president signify by saying I I those opposed thank you thank you hello we can't hear you back here are you speaking to all of us no the board is electing oh okay is electing our that's fine okay I'll take nominations for vice president I'll nominate Eugene West I'll second all those in favor I we'll take a vote oh was that good enough no you need to vote we all need to vote Yes all those in favor of Eugene being Vice signify by saying I I I those opposed congratulations Eugene thank you I accept I'd like to welcome everybody back um I right this time I need a motion and a second for the approval of the minutes from December 17 2024 all those in favor signify by saying I I'll make a motion I I have a

correction I believe and I'm not sure that under remonstrator for 24 Lu luv9 I believe the mayor came and I don't know if she you would call her remonstrator but she spoke in favor of the petition I can add that I think it should be added for the record yes sir I will have those at your next meeting for your approval okay so we won't vote on these tonight right correct okay if you've not done so please sign in at the back of the room and anyone wishing to speak tonight please stand and raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth answer with I do thank you do we have any special do we have any special requests tonight continuance withdrawals or waivers yes ma'am we have a uh petition that will need to be continued notice did not go out in time petition 25 lap 01740 East 46 Street will be continued with notice to the March 18th hearing okay there's a doesn't need to be a vote or anything on no no Vote or anything she didn't get notice out so we can't hear it tonight okay are there any other continuance withdrawals or waivers then we'll start with the old business 24 lap 8 8935 East 46 Street partial 43610 City of Lawrence LCD number two Zone D3 chosen Lawrence Manor LLC doing business as Hickory treatment Lawrence

is requesting an a affirmation of administrative determination that a specialty type substance use disorder residential addiction treatment facility is similar to a nursing home okay so we start with the petitioner yeah start with the petitioner we start with the petitioner at this time the secretary will go over the rules you got it so the rules are the petitioner has 10 minutes remonstrator those for or against the petition we'll have 10 minutes combined um the City of Lawrence will give a position the petitioner can rebuttal for 5 minutes remonstrator can rebuttal for five minutes and then we'll vote thank you um if I could ask the question um if the total time for for anyone who wants to testify on behalf of the demonstrators is 10 minutes correct were the remonstrator informed of that in advance that they could then parcel out the time because they have people more people are going to be able to speak within 10 minutes or do they want a timer it is there is a timer we have a timer up here and so you but do you time it out for individual I mean you say okay you get one minute or whatever no they'll have to decide that between them on who's going to come up and speak in remonstrance remonstrator are you can I ask can we ask if they have had that opportunity to do that you can ask whatever you want ma'am thank um are the remonstrator have you had an opportunity to decide I mean you have 10 minutes that means everybody who stood up and says they want to speak there's 10minute limitation it's a for all of you so are you do you need um are you aware and you know how you want to

do it okay great the petitioner also gets 10 minutes so but I'm sure esteem Council knows that quite well so okay I will try to speak up I've got had a little cold over the weekend I'm a little bit dry in the throat so I beg your pardon uh in advance here um my name is Kevin buckheit and I'm a land use planner with the law firm cig Dev vault at their caramel office here tonight on behalf of the the applicant for this um kind of an unusual situation that the board finds itself in um administrative appeal consideration is something that you are authorized to do by the state code but they happen rarely um so under Indiana code 3674 98.1 you are authorized to hear this this matter before you tonight um and the application is to consider um a land use administrative determination that was made by the city of Indianapolis IN 2020 and we're asking you to affirm that decision that that they um provided to us regarding land use um but I'll come back to that shortly I've handed out um a booklet for you that I'll be walking through tonight I do have a couple of extra copies if there are any in the audience like to copy okay all right um under tab one it's just a map to help Orient everyone to the site

um we are just west of post in East 46th Street about 500 ft West I've tried to highlight the general land uses in the area to demonstrate that it's really a very mixed use neighborhood um and and I didn't go beyond this because it would have been a pretty cluttered map the parcels that don't have any color apply to them are to the best of my knowledge single family residential and I'd made no determination where owner or renter occupied because I don't think that part matters um the site in in question is outlined in yellow box the and and on that map the red is commercial the Orange is multif family the blue are places of worship and then everything that's not colored is the single family residential under tab two this is just a history of the site itself based from the city of Indianapolis GIS um Archive of aerial photographs in 1966 it appears that the site was vacant or possibly a single family home at that time by 1972 the facility had been constructed and we believe had had benefited from a land use variance at that time or prior to that time uh By 1979 they had added on to the back of the building and then the last page under tab two is the current uh 2024 land use aerial photograph showing the site as it's been approved so the under tab three the top half of that is the exact section from the estate code that authorizes you to conduct this business for us tonight and

the second half of the page is an excerpt from the uh consolidated zoning and subdivision ordinance that allows you to uh allows the administrator to consider a land use that is not specifically listed in the table um the characteristics of that land use and compare it to other uses that are listed and make a determination whether they are similar uh similar enough that they would be treated the same under the ordinance um under Tab four this use is by the city of Indianapolis determination uh same as a nursing home and the nursing home as defined by the ordinance is listed there on on that uh page under Tab four like licensed facilities primarily engaged in providing shelter food and intermediate or long-term nursing or health care for individuals who may that may include assisted living facilities but not hospitals clinics or uh similar institutions devoted primarily to diagnosis and treatment of the sick or injured this definition also includes convalescent care the ordinance doesn't go on to Define convalescent care so I had to go and search for a a a definition of general understanding in the world and that is presented to you on the bottom half of that page convalescent care is a short-term residential facility that offers highly Specialized Care and Rehab Services for people recovering from illnesses to help them fully recover leave the facility and Lead independent lives I've included a sheet from the zoning ordinance that shows the definition for nursing home Turn the Page and it will tell you what this

facility is not it is not a defined substance of use treatment facility one that uh whose primary function is to administer dispense schedule to control substances to a narcotic addict for maintenance or detoxification treatment um we are not that by definition we are also not a methodone clinic or a treatment facility as defined by the ordinance and that is a fac facility engaged in dispensing methodone for the purpose of elimination or reduction of opiate use by drug addicts drug addicts and abusers again we are not that um we are also not um a drug reab because that term is not defined by the ordinance and then I gave you again sheets from the definition section of the zoning ordinance that show you those definitions under the code under tab six I'm sorry tab five we have the administrative determination letter from the city of Indianapolis dated January 16 2020 it is their their analysis and their their determination at that time that the use that is in operation is the same for the purposes of the ordinance as a nursing home from the letter I've I've just blown out the the determination Point here uh on the right hand side there the department of Metropolitan development has reviewed the ordinance and applicable use specific criteria for nursing homes and determine that the proposed facility aligns with the intent of the ordinance the use specific standards for the nursing home are on the next page uh nursing homes should be licensed by the state and the county we are nursing homes and dwelling districts shall be

designed to be residential in character a believe that this building predates this regulation but over the last 50 years of its existence it has been taken to be a compatible part of the neighborhood nursing homes shall be designed with appropriate access and maneuverability for emergency vehicles the site is um under ordinance uh 733 chapter 733 Article 2 sections 6 and 10 list the criteria to help the staff determine uh um what the the similarity between this use and nursing home and there were four areas size scale operating characteristics and external impacts we've provided the out the uh analysis there for you the size of the building has not changed since the late 1979 area um the scale of the operations couldn't grow because the the building itself has finite space and couldn't couldn't accommodate more uh clients or patients the operator characteristics remain unchanged it's still a shortterm short-term residential facility offers highly Specialized Care and Rehab Services for people recovering from illnesses to help them fully recover leave the facility and Lead independent lives the external impacts are actually a little bit less with the proposed use because clients in treatment program are not allowed visitors so there's no daily visitor traffic in and out under tab six um and I apologize th those pages got turned back and uh forth there um starting on the right hand side uh a little bit about the treatment entering the treatment program is voluntary the people who are there want to be

there there is a strict ad admittance protocol that has to be followed no one walks in off the street admissions are handled remote at a remote facility and then the client is delivered to the facility either by Hickory or someone arranged by Hickory no one drives thems to or from the location the program is an approximately 21 to 20day program it's a comprehensive residential treatment program to treat the whole person it includes individual and group therapy Medical Care Medicine management and again whole person treat home whole person treatment as a catalyst toward sustained recovery and effective relapse prevention as I mentioned there are no visitor visitor privileges during the program once they complete the program there is strict discharge and release protocol that must be followed no one is released out of the door into the neighborhood or or to the community the discharge protocol ensures that every discharged client has a a safe place to go to in order to continue their recovery efforts in a supportive setting the program is voluntary but the clients cannot just quit the program when they give an indication that they might want to quit the program they are provided with with additional counseling to reinforce the value of the program in their recovery Journey if they ultimately decide to exit the program they will still be required to follow the exit protocol under tab seven we get down to the the bones of the request before you tonight and if I can beg your Indulgence if I run out of time I'll try to speed this through here but I think it's important to understand the analysis

that the city of Indianapolis went into and how this affects the use under the ordinance as a similar use to a nursing home we are requesting tonight that the board affirm the 2020 administrative determination of the city of Indianapolis um that a specialty type substance use disorder residential addiction treatment facility to provide Asam level 3.5 residential services including high-intensity clinically Focus focused services for individuals with substance use disorder you require less medical and clinical support than an inpatient hospital setting but more medical and clinical support than an outpatient setting aligns with the intent of the Consolidated zoning and subdivision ordinance language regulating nursing home land uses as determined by the ordinance and defined by the ordinance including use specific criteria and based on the F following findings of fact excuse me the use is licensed by the Indiana State Department of Health and the Marian County Public Health Department the operations of this facility are are under the opes of th those two controlling bodies the developed real estate has demonstrated compatibility with the greater neighborhood and the community for over 50 years at this location the site is designed with appropriate access and maneuverability for emergency vehicles the size of the building has to increased since the late 1970s as evid evidenced by the real aerial photographs the scale of the operations has not increased due to the finite space of the building which limits the number of people for whom care may be provided the operating character

characteristics remain unchanged it's a short-term residential facility that offers highly Specialized Care and Rehabilitation Services for people recovering from illness injuries and surgeries to help them fully recover leave the facility and Lead independent lives and the external impacts are less in with this use because the current residents are not allowed visitors during their stay we have others here from Hickory and um Affiliates we have a graduate of the program if you want to hear from them at some point or if you have questions about the details The Clinical Director of the facility is in the in in attendance tonight she can get into the nitty-gritty the details um the two individuals that are handed out to you a little bit of their bio Dr Kelly is here as well um if you want to get into the medical aspects of what we're doing um he would be the the expert on that um and we have others who who may be able to answer any questions I will certainly try um but the the specifics and the nature of the the operation and such are are Beyond me and best left to those who deal with it uh on a day-to-day basis with that I will conclude my remarks uh on the presentation here and await any questions that you may have yeah how did you end up here did an improvement location permit get turned down um we ended up here um there were on on the heels of the renovation of the building itself there were some cleanup matters that need to be tended to and we received zoning violations from the city of Indianapolis Business and Neighborhood Services Department um we

have worked through most of those this is one of the last uh items left to be um uh addressed with them um and that process is on hold pending the outcome of the the matter tonight if you if you affirm what Indian Apolis did in their letter in 2020 then we would report that to the other agency and hopefully close the books on that matter as well and and again it's a little bit of a Twist on the administrative appeal process and that we're asking you to agree with what Indianapolis has done um so and I had this is exact my had the exact same questions and thought about this process so so what and correct me if I'm wrong so what Indianapolis has done is you went to them and you get essentially ask for like an advisory opinion and said so if this were to come before you and they're not the board they don't make the final decision but if as planners do you think it's included in this and they said yes we think that um nursing homes that definition would cover substance abuse treatment centers and so what they essentially did then was to tell you to come here to us to see if we also agreed with that interpretation that last step was our choice in in in addressing the remaining violation regarding land use it's it's an alleged violation and we're trying to convince them as well that we have everything we need to to conduct this business at that location um Hickory had discussions with hi I just want to interrupt real quickly to help you understand where we stand with the BC ruling we know that right now with the new ruling for BCA and for us as a city that everything could still go down to Indianapolis and they can

make a decision we are now in the midst of working with our lobbyists and the City of Lawrence to get full control of the council making decisions so this was way before uh us Lawrence had the opportunity to establish our BC with the strength that we have so I think since 2020 um that's where it went and landed and then we've been working with uh them and Indianapolis to get a final ruling and so we're still uh how do I say this we still have a bza council we do our permits and everything but sometimes a lot of the things still go down to inis to make the final decision and under this Administration we're trying to get full control so this has been going on and so we're here tonight to ask for a final decision from the Lawrence board okay I hope that helped yes it did thank you very much thank you so then following up on on what the mayor just explained if I may follow up on that um the the point that Hickory was in discussion with the city of Indianapolis was prior to those legislative changes and we approach them because the use as as we operate is not def find under any of the land use classifications in their ordinance we had to request from them that determination in order to secure the licensing uh requirements of the state and the county so that's what we had to work with the authority at that time and now there's been a shift slight shift to the City of Lawrence on this which is why we're here tonight asking for confirmation okay so then if we say we don't agree with their interpretation then what happens um everything is subject to appeal and so then you would appeal it to the MDC met I I have to

figure out that that exact path um the and downtown can overrule us right well MDC can overrule everybody so if if it's under the same rules and and regulations and bylaws that the Metro divisions one two and 3bz operate yes it could be appealed to the Metropolitan development commission first beyond that I think it would go to court Court okay all right so then we can make a decision and and so okay so I will tell you that I am I think treatment centers are different than nursing homes and one of the first things that came into my mind as I'm reading this is that this had to opinion had to have been thought about and considered by people who were younger because now that my friends have gotten older and unfortunately I'm getting older and my parents I went through it with them nursing homes are are actually very different they when you go into a nursing home it's because you can't personally care for yourself now rehab portion of a nursing home is different and um continued medical care that's another part of it I don't know what this nursing home was offering before but your people come in with a an illness a direct illness it's not that they just can't button their shirts or can't remember to eat or anything like that they come in with an illness and they come in to be treated and it's an intensive program and so and do you also provide detoxification Services no not okay what do these they are brought in where are they brought in from um I just just a point of order here um I guess we can have the rest of the conversation I have to bring people forward to help me answer these questions I didn't know if you wanted to

get into the public hearing first or let this conversation happen well this is the public hearing the board is asking the these questions now um I mean I see in here the operation characteristics remain unchanged it says people recovering from illnesses injuries and surgeries which in a roundabout way a nursing home does yeah and and it does do that but these folks are only coming in for illness they're not coming in post surgery if they are that must be the rare occasion it it it doesn't have to be all of the the characteristics that's there but oper operationally this operation is very very similar to nursing home my uh oldest sister has health issues and and a couple of times she has had to go into a nursing home and you know what we think of as the tra traditional nursing home for care um nutrition um medical uh supervision and uh Physical Therapy um she's back home you know so it's the substance abuse treatment that evokes fears in people is not what this program is those uses exist which is why the city of Indianapolis defined them specifically they wanted to to place certain restrictions location restrictions and use restrictions on those I I'll call them harsher activities um for the protection of the general Community but this use before you tonight operationally is very similar to nursing homes and we we shouldn't um delve into the very details of exactly which population demographic is being treated well

let me let me ask you this um the city of Indianapolis letter also made reference to being a residence and your response to that was that well this building's characteristics were established long before that was put in place but your use that you seek to put in there was put in there after that requirement was made right as a continuation of as a nursing home under the determination but it's not a nursing home and it's not a nursing home it's something abuse and she said no they said that they it it comports with the um intention of the ordinance it didn't say it's a nursing home it just said that the use that you all have comports with that but you still have to meet the residential requirement when you're surrounded by residents is like you are or like your your client is and so that is my question is that it states that if if they're surrounded by residents and you're saying that the building when it was first built wasn't designed or built to be like a residence I'm saying that that requirement that it it comport with residential was made enacted into place before you all came in and said we're going to use it in this manner okay a as a nursing home and and the building itself they predate the updates that have been made to the zoning ordinance and they are protected with for continuation of any non-conformities that may exist that they and they had received approval through a land use variance to operate as a nursing home so we're continuing that in the same building those those in in congruities with the specifics that you quote um are are guaranteed under uh pre-existing land uses right um I think that I have to disagree with you on that

I mean it just seems to me that you all picked a building you knew that with this kind of use it was going to require that it be residential it's like if I put it into if if you had a um say you had a an an auto mechanic a big garage there and that had uh been there for years and years then the city comes through and they enact a new law that would make it impossible for you to put that in there now but you come in and you say I got a brand new use for this I'm gonna say it's the same thing as mechanic and I don't have to comply with this requirement of being if it's in residential because I'm continuing being a mechanic even though I'm a baker and that I think is the difference I I guess I have a real problem saying that these treatment centers are the same as nursing homes now God knows we need them and we probably need more of them but the situation is very different when it's sitting there surrounded by residences and that's that's what I'm thinking about but thank you for your patience if you can help me understand your thoughts about how how they're different maybe maybe we can continue how nursing homes and treatment uh substance abuse treatment centers are different nursing homes and disuse that's what we're talking about tonight okay first of all this you keep saying this particular use did you enter into covenants that are going to restrict to this use forever to to the exact model that you have and no more the I think we're we're held bound to the letter of determination by the city and the and the letter of determination but you're saying that you're less than that because you don't have we don't have the visitors coming we don't have this we don't have that well if the Hickory should decide to sell this facility those other people aren't going to be bound they're not going their business model may be totally different so they're going to be there they may say yes you can have visitors yes you can go out and for two hours a day or whatever they may not be

as responsible as Hickory is but there's nothing requiring them we can limit it to this petition right no I know but this petition I'm asking them if they entered into covenants to make sure that for the future because they're asking here for variance that's not going to run with asking for administrative admin administrative approval right then there's a difference and so if we're going to say it's the same thing as a nursing home then I think we need to make sure that it's operates as much as a nursing home as possible because the problem with as we know with people substance abuse if you allow guests in one of the reasons they don't allow the the guests to visit is because they can bring them drugs they bring them reminders of the other life they talk you know it's like bringing that world that you're trying to separate them from back in in a nursing home you want people to be able to come and see people and all of that because you want the world to come in so it helps pull them out so I mean I think there are big differences and and so there's nothing though this use that Hickory is doing there's no promise that down the road if we go ahead and Grant this letter that that the neighborhood and the residents are going to be protected by someone in who is not as caring or not as good and and aggressive as Hickory is in pursuing his program and that that is my concern I understand and appreciate and thank you for your patience no I I understand this is a good conversation but ultimately the the U request before you tonight is to either agree or not with the letter of determin ation and with that I will introduce let Valerie introduce herself she's The Clinical Director for the theer let's hear from Valerie hello hello Valerie Jones Turner address 11809 Serenity Lane and I'm the executive director and I am uh have been a corporate Clinical Director for Hickory as well you asked us where we get our referrals from we get our

referrals from hospitals uh a lot of our referrals do come from hospitals uh just like Community North we have uh clients that come in who sometimes do have health problems so we do have nurses Nurse Practitioners uh we have doctors on staff so that we do address medical needs as well with the clients do they come in with um drug issues or do they just come in with um illnesses or surgeries or injuries or anything like that so it's a mental health in a substance use uh program any other questions for for Valerie thank you if if you'll allow me I'm going to come back to deat the dead horse here um there is actually did you say that because my last name is Horseman no not at all no ma'am um we we are limited if you look at the the language in the letter of determination itself the letter to what I'm sorry it at the bottom half the last paragraph there and what of what um it's under tab five from the Indianapolis right yeah the Indianapolis letter it is our understanding understanding that Hickory House intends to pursue an Indiana State licensure under specialty type substance use disorder residential addiction treatment facility to provide Asam level 3.5 Residential Services per Asam standards level 3.5 Residential Treatment provides high intensity clinically focused services

for individuals with substance use disorder who require less medical and clinical support than inpatient hospital setting but more medical and clinical support than outpatient setting that is the limitation that the Indianapolis put on their determination if someone else follows that exact footprint they would benefit from that determination but if they if they weren't under that same lure and the other abuse the other treatment centers are I think not under that same lure then they wouldn't be able to operate at that location but that doesn't address the the language in here and the license here I do not believe address whether you can allow visitors whether you can allow people to go off premises whether and all of which would be potentially increasing traffic and and people going in and out and all that so more more like a regular nursing home yeah no because oh people don't get up and move around no not like that but they do have visitors and they have visitors yes my my 92y old mother is in a traditional nursing home and the parking lot is always full the parking lot is always but here's the other thing too on substance treatment and I've dealt with the same issue on with um Shel homeless shelters and that it's not the people who are getting the treatment and all that who are necessarily being the problem it's the people who come to try and further victimize them or try to get them out to go do something that they shouldn't be doing that is the problem and so that's why there are concerns and such and so but no this does this Lang disagree with you this language does not does not okay do that you have to come up you have to come up to the thing please I I really I really appreciate the conversation it's good it's a good

dialogue sorry Val I'm sorry I I really appreciate your concerns but it is our job to protect it's my job to protect this neighborhood as well as to protect our clients so we take that very serious about who comes in and out of our buildings and who comes around our buildings so we make sure that our first priority is the neighbors that we share a a common goal with you know we're not just there just to be there and cause a common nuisance we're here to protect the neighbors and also protect our clients as well so no one just comes in our building or no one just comes up there we don't even have signage up there uh saying what we are so we we believe in the anonymity of our clients and the confidentiality we keep our we keep our uh blinds closed so we don't want anybody to know who's in there and we respect that for the clients and we don't even want the neighbors to know what we do we don't even we just want to be silent and and do what we do passionately do what we do to take care of the people how many clients do you are you fully staffed how many Cent to Patient yeah client to Patient ratio is all the beds full all the time how many beds do you have okay so we are a 55 bed female facility female only female only facility uh so we cater to women's needs and women's issues and so we have different programs that come in here and help us with the women to teach them about their health um well and my concern again is not with you all because you all obviously have you've set boundaries you've done all of this type of thing my concern is once you get this zoning designation on this property then people

who come that subsequent operators may not be as scrupulous as Hickory is about making sure that those protections are there and that when because we have to look at this when you do make a decision about a property it's not just about how it's being used today because this designation will continue on until the next board changes it so it's also how it's going to be impacting and and how it can be utilized in the future right thank you you I mean you are sounds like you do good work and and I will promise you I will be just as tough on the demonstrators with my question okay anybody else have any questions the board have any other questions okay thank you again thank you now we'll hear from the remonstrator for against the petition please step up to the mic state your name and address please my name is Kathy Clark I live at 8807 East 46 street we have 11 Parcels that are uh either next door or contingent or across the street from this location um on I just want to I'm going to pretty much pinch show a picture of what this company's about on late 2018 early 2019 my husband and I were informed by one of our tenants that that live next to store to the nursing home at that time it was a nursing home who also worked at the Lawrence Manor nursing home she was informed it was closing to become a drug rehab she lost her job immediately we immediately went door too to our neighbors for signatures opposing this happening fully expecting to have a zoning hearing which never happened ever we are fully aware of zoning procedures especially in Lawrence we contacted the City of Lawrence to review the plans submitted to Renee rafal's office we pointed out to the at the plans and showed that they were bunked Beds which are not What nursing homes use for their patients uh and so the first clue hickory's less than truthfulness in

their plans chosen or Hickory House also and other numerous names they go by all over the country Texas North Carolina Missouri and most recently Indianapolis at the 2926 Capitol Avenue they bought a nursing home and vacated it and said it was going to be renovate remodeled and they displaced longtime patients and turned it into a drug rehab Center without proper permits or zoning the neighbors were blindsided and had no way to remonstrate they are and have done and they and they keep doing this all over the country of course we know why there's loads of money to be made and Moshi orlinsky who is the primary stakeholder has much experience along with Sky rehab in in a very lucrative business our suspicion that Chosen and Hickory knowingly played games with the city staff their deceitfulness ignoring stop work orders not supplying plans for prior prior to uh paying the permits with the city they knew that the old Administration will be gone at the end of 2023 with new Administration coming in in 2024 and new legal team for the City of Lawrence we even pointed out to the city staff that they placed a very visible billboard signed on East eastbound Pendleton Pike announcing the new drug rehab center at the address of 8935 East 46 this is before it even open during this whole time they continued to say it was going to be a nursing home they even went as far to photoshop a picture with their employees in front of the old nursing home sign Shady to say the least we have an email that came that we directed to the city at the time and um City of Lawrence rafal's office K vler City of Lawrence that she was the attorney at the time John IEM miller.com and uh your Savon Siri they sir they call him I'm not sure but this was all directed to them and they said they answered we gave them

permission to complete the roof workk to prevent any further damage to the building and that's what they are doing no other work will be done after that the city code inspector was out there verifying that this morning and he confirmed the same thing they would never they would need a zoning variance for a drug rehab facility and we are informed then again in our last meeting this that City will not support such a facility they are only approve for nursing home per the current zoning they have had and if this would not need to be built they'd have to they'd have to have a rezoning and a variance to happen and this is from Sri venu book go poen he was a PE engineering I'm not sure you I'm sure you know who he is anyway the old nursing home was never zoned properly which goes back to 1960 we asked David kingan who all you know him very well to investigate this and he was basically ignored and dumbfounded that the lack of proper procedure in reone or variance was not followed he contacted several City of Lawrence officials or offices to find information which we all have add the request and and review our neighbor Bob charlock and I went to the ne mayor mayor's office one morning when we arrived no one was there and after a few moments the mayor rounded the corner with fire chief Dino balis when we are introduced ourselves he was obviously unhappy we shared with him about the web link and asked if anyone had gone to look at the site he stated that's just an that's just an accusation Bob mentioned that their that's their website Bob offered a copy the link he refused it and he got very angry we were not threatening nor were we out of line the truth never changes however we he said we needed to leave or he would have us removed and arrested of course we left our question is how can the City of Lawrence informing chosen Hickory that they opposed a drug rehab to seemingly Aid meeting and avoiding an application for a variance when we have

witnessed fights outside the building clothing strown out in front Lawns with staff and with we assume one of the drug addicts couldn't comply yelling and screaming we have seen sheriffs we have seen the in Lawrence Police Department be there we've called and they've dropped off patients by the way we well over 100 police runs and fire runs at this location since it's opened we are curious are they being assessed for these fees For Those runs we have seen commercial trucks delivering Food Supplies commercial dumpsters serviced at 5:00 a.m. in the morning which is very annoying they have parked in areas not permitted the west side of the building has these light lighting lumens that make our backyard look like it's daylight and we've asked them to take care of that it's and it hasn't happened it's obvious that the cians of the W citizens of Watson Edition are very concerned for their well-being we have had our cars gone through and items missing from our properties we feel strongly that the variance resoning should have been properly addressed three or plus years ago and not and and we wouldn't even have this discussion today Chosen and Hickory stated that since Co happened they couldn't make it a nursing home because of the remodeling Cost Plus nursing homes do not generate enough money from the from the get-go they're less than truthful from the very beginning along with their deceitfulness and using their bullying way that they are around the city and around the United States knowing how to circumvent policies by cities who have allowed them to do whatever they please we the public have been hoodwinked and to have you the very people that we have as Citizens here rely upon following Pro procedures proper procedures we all know that this complete incompetence they have been caught lying and deceiving and everyone except the people that are directly affected which is us I don't know about you Tom I know margin you wouldn't allow this in your neighborhood you wouldn't even allow a shed a shed to be B

built I I don't know about anybody else but I I I believe that there is a place for this there's a building at 38th in Post Road that's been sitting vacant for I don't know how many years now and it could have served the public by a lot better place and have more parking available to them I don't know what's next all I know is this what's next I can tell you it's going to happen the address 8943 it's a house it's just east of this this location was purchased by 100 by $165,000 by the neighbors that lived right next door to this the nursing home they bought this before the building was even finished we know what they're going to do the next thing is going to be they're going to come forward and they're going to demolish this this house and make it a parking lot my question to you are you going to make them have the drainage ditch the drainage Pond and all that stuff like everyone else is supposed to have all I know is this that we oppose this that the Lawrence Manor Nursing Home served a purpose and we had no problems when they did have a cend fire truck or an ambulance we knew that there was really a certain a problem people's lives were at stake I don't know what we can do and what you can do I'm asking you to consider not approving this it is not fair to us we the people that live in our neighborhood have lived there over 40 some years we lived there since 1983 and it's a very con very very a neighborhood that's very it's a good neighborhood and by having something like this in our neighborhood is not helping our property values that's for sure I don't have anything else to say other than the fact that I just thank you for your time and the consideration any can I ask a question to Kathy before she

leaves are you saying this is operating as a drug rehab center today it's open it's been open for the last couple years no I didn't know that yeah it's been operating just like any other business oh okay sir just a second hell wait a minute wait a minute Kathy can please what was that I have a question for her sure um so Kathy the um you talked about they bought a who bought the house next to chosen or hickory one or the other they go by so many different names I mean we've when I put the uh notice in to a request to be able to uh be heard I put all the names that this company goes by it's not just chosen or hickory okay they go by a lot of names and they and they know that they know how to get this done they do it all across the country and it's not it's very lucrative business is what it is and I'd like to find out what the uh percentages of success rates are I can tell you that I've been in my own backyard and I smelled pot from their from their location okay and I but that could travel that is it is it can travel okay okay sir well once again folks hi sir my name is Bob sir oh you have more questions sir get up here no no no no we're talking to you I'm talk sir Bob I was talking to you Bob what was you have three minutes three minutes well I'm going to ask you something why did that gentleman get far more than three no she the secretary is keeping track I'm going to do this as quickly as possible okay I'm these materials are a small portion of the materials that I received from the City of Lawrence through a

public records act request a small portion I only brought that this portion with me so I can tell the story so that you'll understand what's happened without spending too much time but if I take more than 3 minutes I hope you'll be patient all right this all starts in 2018 a friend of mine is a speech therapist was working on contract at Lawrence Manor nursing home she was in there several times a week she called me she said that she had just been informed that Lawrence Manor nursing home was closing and it was opening as a drug re had I talked to my neighbor Kathy a few days later she told me that the employees that she knew there had told her that they had been told the same thing that they were closing Lawrence Manor and they were opening as a drug rehab so that establishes that it's clear it was to be a drug rehab from the beginning so here's where I'm going to ask you at the end of this to ask yourself two questions I'll get to those okay so we begin first thing Kathy and I uh took a petition throughout the entire neighborhood unanimous 100% 80 signatures no drug re have all right so we begin uh on July 31st uh oh we'll go past that one it's not that relevant okay this is from permits to chosen what you provided doesn't tell us the purpose for the facility the reason I'm asking is because the state says it will be for a drug rehab that's because chosen had filed for a variance with the

state not with the City of Lawrence the state and that's where they got caught and this is from permits they want to know what it's actually going to be from chosen to permits oh a drug recap uh drug alcohol rehabilit Center Rehabilitation Center is something we are considering and that's where the lying begins and it is out and outline uh on the 28th Mike upon discussion with the city Administration I want to let you know that we will not be in favor of a drug and alcohol rehap all right and then we'll go on to well there's a lot of emails exchanged that I have okay we we appreciate that but we don't have time to go through every email I'm not I'm almost done I would appreciate your patience thank you okay a lot of emails back and forth were chosen continues to deny it's going to be a drug rehab all the time knowing it's going to be one okay so the city's permits office is pressing them we'll move forward to oh let's say because I don't want to waste your time it's the rules sir it's not about um on um you'll get a five minute rebuttal at the end just be patient okay well I won't give you the exact date I'm driving down pemin Pike one day in the 9500 PK of uh pen and Pike and there's a big billboard hitre drug rehab it has phone number on it and has the 8 89 uh 8935 address which is directly across the street from my house I inform the

city I call permits and say look they got a they've got a a billboard up and they're still denying it's going to be a drug rehab they've got a billboard up on the 18th the billboard is gone that was the 2nd of August 18th the billboard is gone we move on I'm watching because I know before they open up they're going to open up a web presence so I'm watching and watching sure enough here comes a web presence website hicky drug rehab at Lawrence it has the address it has a phone number I copy the URL I send it to the mayor's office I get no reply back I send an email on I haven't heard from you about this have you looked into it nothing at that point Kathy and I about a week later go to the mayor's office there's no one in the mayor's office no one in the reception there no one any we wait a few minutes Kathy calls out is anybody here around the corner comes the Mayor Bob we need to wrap this up I introduced myself okay the mayor says when I say it's a drug rehab website the mayor said that's an accusation I said go to the go to the site look for yourself that's an accusation at that point he threatened to have us arrested we didn't leave okay here's the thing this company has practice oh here let me show you a photograph see that they put that up it was on another website they opened for their nursing home that never opened never existed this sign never existed where it's at it's either photoshopped in or they held it up for the photo it never existed I live directly across the

street okay so we' got a company who practice lie after lie after lie they lied to the city they lied to you this is 2018 they filed for a variance with the city in November of 2024 that's a lot of lapse time they waited for a reason so they've lied and they lied and they lied sir and your time is up I got to ask you is do you want to reward them do you want to reward them with this variance when they've lied and they've lied and they've lied to the city to you to the residents now the other thing is uh this is not interchangeable with a nursing home check in Indiana drug rehab facilities are under mental health and mental health will tell you they are not interchangeable so what was cannot be thank you sir so there is to it now property values you can go to site after site that's enough we we have to cut you off your time's up it's been I got to time this guy oh by the way you're going cut me off but just a second I worked for 10 years in drug and alcohol rehab not where he works I worked in the streets I worked in the hospital with social services eseni and Methodist I work with people coming out of prison I work with the homeless I know drug and alcohol rehab if you've got somebody in trouble Harbor Lights is your best bet after that they can't take Harbor Lights Pathways to Recovery thank you sir Dove house thank you thank you this is a billing company not a drug rehab company thank you Bob I see we have two counselors will either one of you like to speak tonight

thank you you'll you just a minute just a minute okay you'll get a five minute rebuttal just like the demonstrators okay now it's time for the City of Lawrence I can do it mayor if you don't if the staff report absolutely you have as much time as you want you have as much time first of all I want to appreciate everyone for coming out to share and engage in a a very fruitful conversation it's very important that we understand both sides of the situation so I want to applaud everyone feeling strong enough and confident enough to come out to say their opinion um also all I want to say is this is a new Administration what happen happened in 2018 and 2020 is something that um I had no control over but I also understand that as we are trying to in the city be transparent uh talk about communication community and good governance I want to make sure that we understand and give everyone the opportunity to speak but what's so important to me is that um there has been over 2,000 patients served in a woman and pregnant women patient focus on Lawrence there is a 71% graduation rate for women who enter this residential treatment program everybody knows my history 40 years in healthc care um being at the East Coast for 15 years in one Hospital 5 years in another

and 28 years with community Health Network and I've seen mental health illness I've seen addiction I seen different things and we have to take in consideration Women's Health right now and yes this might have been in the past a calescent home my understanding also is once the patients are admitted they stay on site through the program completion there's no outpatient services ordered at the site um my understanding too most of the cars that you see in the parking lot are employee cars I had an opportunity to have visit the site three times in my first year and also watch them doing a graduation this is something that is needed throughout our city not just in Lawrence indanapolis and all over we all know that mental health is an illness is very well um an opportunity for us to uh take a step forward and participate I don't know all the treatment options but I do know that if there's a way that we could come together as uh a city as a opportunity to be good neighbors um and come to some type of situation that we can make this work I think it would benefit the patience that they get from all over and also will benefit the City of Lawrence as we're moving forward to make sure that we have quality of life in the City of Lawrence so I am open and my administration's open to continue to hear both sides but we also know that in 2020 the city of Indianapolis has uh garnished and asked that this be

affirmed I would like for us to try to do the same thank you thank you now we open the petition petition do you have any yeah we appreciate this time I'm going to address just a few of the comments and then I let Dr Kelly um speak with you and and you may have questions of him as well um we are operating under proper zoning there was a land experience back in the 1970s for a nursing home at this location in a residential district we are operating under the offices of the administrative determination letter that we we received from the city of Indianapolis and regarding the Indianapolis facility they are fully engaged with the neighborhood and the organized groups around them and they've got excellent working relationship with them with that I'll let Dr Kelly speak uh thank you um while I was listening to all of this I'm sorry um doctor we need your name and your address for the record if you don't mind yeah yeah um my name is Timothy Kelly MD um you want my home address or my office your office is 7250 clear Vista Drive Indianapolis 46256 Community North campus thank you sir right up the road so I just want to introduce a concept here interchangeable term for nursing home for years has been Convalescent Center that's what I I remember as a kid hearing you know that my Rel my mother was in a Convalescent Center I come from a family whose um I grew up in a family

with active uh substance use disorder is the current respectful term addiction and uh some of the other things I heard about uh um earlier were less than most respectful to be honest um convalescent I just looked it up to recover one's health and strength over a period of time that's the definition of convalescence okay this all this came in front of the Indianapolis uh Metropolitan commission or whatever certifies this so the the the care delivered at Hickory Treatment Center to women women who are the least of us who have been traumatized um the vast majority I this is what I do for 45 years this is why I'm on the earth I love what I do it is a privilege to serve these women and and and that's not the only patients I've treated adolescence and and mostly men but I I refer I I work primarily at Community North on inpatient facility at a higher level of care where the people are going through active uh withdrawal management detoxification uh many of them have attempted suicide and have very high levels of medical and psychiatric problems we step them down to facilities and Hickory is one of our main referral places uh we they step down to that residential level of care so the the acute medical management is typically done at at a place like Community North they are steep down when they the acute management is over uh to that level over 80% of these women have suffered severe trauma often childhood sexual abuse um Hickory is responding uh instead of

being made out as a you know just a horrific organization they're responding to a tremendous Community uh both local and National Emergency we are in an epidemic over a 100,000 people many of whom were in the prime of their life Prime of their life lost their life to drug overdose um so if you want to if you want to say something positive about Hickory you could say they've responded to a national epidemic this is this is killing our country and how many families have suffered so uh does any disease have a 100% success rate no diabetes does not have 100% success rate cancer treatment does not have 100% success rate right uh the care delivered at community at Hickory uh is excellent that we refer there because we know uh that the care is uh is very good and and consistent with standards of care today for addiction treatment um it is convalescent so the Indianapolis I just want to read the last five L uh lines here the department of Metropolitan development has received the ordinance and applicable use criteria for nursing home has reviewed it and determined that the proposed facility aligns with the intent of the ordinance to provide convalescent care it's just a much more specialized form of convalescent care once again the definition of convalescence is to recover one's health and strength over a period of time that is exactly what's happening at that facility people are not coming and going and people like this happens um I had to testify for a women's recovery program that's uh in my own neighborhood I grew up near 46 in college there's a women's uh program called uh heart rock 49th in winth right

up the street from my house when I was a kid and uh people tried to block that saying that you know the people were using drugs and they were going to fight and overdose and okay that program has gone extremely well um I had to testify at the Indianapolis Metropolitan U development commission for that program they voted 8 to1 to approve it it's been an overwhelming success they take care take care of women who are pregnant and CH and who have children under two and they can have their children on site these so you know I heard the proposal kick them down the street make them move to 38 Street anywhere but our neighborhood this is the fight that people who do what I do have had to fight our whole career is being pushed out marginalized we don't want you but I'm appealing to if any of you like the raise the least of us that's what we do okay and uh a lot of what I heard was um very judgmental and um you know just pushing it off to another neighborhood is not the solution because people in that neighborhood will do the same thing so um the care is excellent I refer there and um and and we just heard the mayor uh support our initiative as well also this has been up and running if it was so terrible why is it not all over the newspaper uh you know sometimes an ambulance comes or a police comes you know somebody passes out or they have to be taken somewhere sometimes the police do maybe drop people off for treatment okay but um if this was so terrible this would be wide widespread known in the community what are they severe drug addicts uh are they okay let me let me I'm tried to be politically I the question is do they have severe substance use disorder thank

you all illnesses have a spectrum we have very mild diabetes and we have people that have trouble controlling their blood sugar with the care of an endocrinologist the most severe um we treat the whole Spectrum but we but these are people okay where I am at Community North we get people who just attempted suicide they're in psychosis um they have severe Medical problems they're in need of medical detoxification we do all of that we stabilize that um Hickory is a step down facility where people convalesce get their strength back learn how to manage this illness okay so do we take care of people with who have severe problems yes but they're but they're stable enough for this level of care I have a question for you so how long have you been referring to the to the agency uh when did they open when orinal building oh uh so um 2017 okay as soon as they open where were they before uh well you know actually the same company I don't know it's making it sound like this hick evil Hickory is taking over this nursing home but the same company operated it as a nursing home before I mean that that was owned by um The Chosen Corporation anyway it was all under the same umbrella but but if you want to not be so judgmental you would say that they saw a community of both local and National need to um provide care for people with these disorders that need to convol the city of Indianapolis said okay and I saw the director Jay chadri

he's the director of division of mental health and addiction uh and so this this um Maran County Commission saw this as specialized convalescent care and they felt that under the language it did qualify and they approved it now they also pointed out that uh and this would address maybe your concern that this is going to turn into some other thing it says um any expansion alteration addition uh of new facilities or uses will require further review by the department of Metropolitan development the renovation of the facility Andor new construction shall be in compliance with all applicable building codes and permitting procedures so they put a condition that if if somebody tried to dramatically change this and all of a sudden people are coming and going or turned into something else uh they said this would that uh that that would require further review so they they're holding them accountable to stay um within the confines of of this program that the way it exists that people are not coming and going they're not um C you know this is good treatment and and it serves a tremendously disadvantaged population I I think um law that's my thing I have my jur doctorate not my medical degree but when they give you a um that language in that letter there states that if you're going to come in and actually alter the building if you're going to change its use as in terms of use defined by Indianapolis ordinances if you're going to come in and and build on an addition whatever those then have to get approvals what it does not apply to are things such as your business model or you know your um rules that you have regarding your occupants or you know how many people can visit and all that type

of thing they can tell you how many parking spots you have to have but they can't tell you how many people can come and go so so that's a that that is the difference and that is my concern is that it may not be as throw as Hickory is well the the model that they're developing is you know residential treatment there's no plan to alter the treatment program it's um operating to the satisfaction of the clients and the the staff of the facility and the administration of the program so I mean does every program that you review do you do you subject it to well you could change it down the road into something else and therefore deny it actually yes as I was explaining to someone else who is up here that land use decisions are made not only with an eye to today but they also have to Encompass in the future and what that property can become so it's a way of of enacting your vision for your city and your community but couldn't you deny anything on that basis then you could say anything could be changed no you what you look at are the um the the uses that can be that and therein lies one of the big differences between a nursing home and a substance abuse treatment program right and so so I mean I I definitely see the need and particularly for women and I think that that's all good but I also see that this is a I thought it was interesting the company who owns the substance also owned the nursing home or had a connection they intertwined apparently these companies so it knew that this was going to be an issue because they knew what that nursing home was done what it was then at the time they chose to do it

unfortunately there was apparently a change in the law which short circuited the variance hearing and all of that that should have happened a full hearing and didn't so that the residents of the area didn't get the opportunity to speak then so now this is their one and only time to speak and it's and it's unfortunate and in the meantime though the company um and the devotion of the employees is outstanding I can tell that just by listening to the passion and everything but the company now has had well what 2 or three years to make a profit they're going to go on and appeal it so that's going to give them another couple of years they already switched it from a nursing home if they can't get this maybe they'll switch it to something else it's unlikely that you know they I mean I I how would I know I well we and we don't it seems like unlikely they would go back to being a nursing home um you know a lot of their focus has gone into this kind of treatment it you know it's not I it sound people make it sounds evil if you're a corporate if you're a for-profit corporation like what do you think Built America you know for-profit corporations you know Lawrence is trying to you know be a a community on the move and you would want to support businesses it's not incompatible to you know serve under serve people and provide good care and be a for-profit corporation right so um can I make a comment I'm not sure we're here as a social service provider I look at this letter from the city of Indianapolis it's not worth the Papers written on we here had Indianapolis be advisers to us for how many years they would come in with a letter like this this is not this was not something approved by anybody

this wasn't approved by the bza of Indianapolis or the Metropolitan development commission this this is a staff plan and Larry Williams used to come in here every month and he would say I Larry Williams think you shouldn't have a car wash on because of this ordinance but we didn't we listen to him but this this is not a a change of law ordinance this is a recommendation by a staff planner and I want wonder if when you got this were were you concerned not to go to DMD and get a no I I apologize now you're completely out of my area of exp you're going back to the attorney we're a zoning bza uh and our heart goes out to you uh for your community service but but we have to deal with the the law and the the structure and you've been operating for 5 years so I love an answer to that because that looks to me like a staff planner who had an opinion uh but didn't go to anybody all right there it it's been pardon me it's been alleged that we have not followed the law but we have if you'll turn under tab three okay there is a quote from the zoning ordinance that is in effect and it establishes this process precisely where the administ the the anyone with a question about a land use that is not listed in the ordinance can approach the administrator of the department to um

make a determination based on the description of the proposed use against a listed and defined use in the in the ordinance so and have I'm sorry and what department is that is this the state or or Indianapolis the department of Metropolitan development for the city of Indianapolis this is their ordinance it's a it's an option under that that process if if if Indianapolis had not issued its uh letter of determination excuse me um we would have sought other routes for this location which would have involved a public public hearing and and and possibly a use variance to establish the specific use but the use as as we've defined it is not copasetic with exact definitions for listed land uses under the ordinance so we we have followed that on item three you're saying the board of zoning appeals did hear that on no no and and it didn't have to the ordinance doesn't require it if this is an administrative process that's available under the ordinance okay so so are you saying that a person who's seeking a variance or or of use can has a choice either can take it to the BCA or ask no ma'am the administrator if if if it doesn't if if the use that they're proposing is not addressed no that's that's not what I said what I said was that this process this administrative process was pursued and it bore fruit I know but you said that this is what you chose to do if this had not happened in that in that fashion then we would have pursued other options under the code which may have

included a reone or it may have included a land use variance but we didn't have to get to that point so okay I it's this process is really now now more confused because I assume this is like an advis opinion if you're not list if your use isn't listed in the zoning ordinances then you can go to the DMD and you can say hey can you give me an idea is this will this juice be covered and so they say we interpret this to mean that yeah substance abuse centers fulfill the same intent of the ordinance as nursing homes but they don't make a determination they do they do Under This section of the code how is this a deter so this is considered to be a determination so yes any use that's not covered you have a choice then and once you now the difference is here the only reason you're coming here now is because the law has changed no okay so when you so when you made the application for this you knew at the time that there was an chance that we would have to be deciding something and we may against it the the point at which we approached the City of Lawrence was excuse me I need my water thank you for your Indulgence um the point at which we approached the City of Lawrence for this business tonight was on the heels of um a list of alleged zoning violations that were on the heels of the renovations that were done we've addressed most of those violations cleaned up the process this is the last remaining item that uh the Department of Business Neighborhood Services who is the enforcement

Authority for the zoning code and other matters for the city of Indianapolis um okay so now now now I'm confused even more so what you're saying is that it is confusing you got yeah you got cited for a bunch of things and in the settlement of those citations with the city of Indianapolis they they gave you a choice of coming to us or no no no that's not what I said there were a number of of violations alleged um regarding zoning issues on the site the others had to do with um the fence and the repair of that and other things that have been cleaned up since and they're all code compliant today the last remaining issue that the BN Department of BNS had was regarding the the uh use of the property um we showed them shared with them the administrative determin letter determination letter and they asked that we we address it through this form why I you'd have to ask them because I mean you if if this letter was an actual determination then you could have stood by that right and and we we tried but they they they still would rather in order to address it um to their satisfaction and ask that we pursue this route okay and then one one other point just to follow up on Dr Kelly's uh reference to convalescence convalescence is a part of the nursing home definition in the code and convalescence is what occurs at this location I appreciate your discussion tonight thank you very much yeah

yes thank you for allowing us to speak tonight and I I want them to know that I am not judging any of your occupants that are there and getting help and that sort of thing I'm a pastor I understand The Importance of Being uh being good stewards and also helping one helping people the point that I made made tonight was the fact of this company being deceitful in their actions and the way they proceeded and didn't do things the proper way and they allowed people in rafal's office to um be put on the spot and it was not fair to them based on some of the things that occurred during that time and I I I know that our new mayor um has a special interest but I think tonight for her speaking is a conflict of interest quite honestly ly um I know that she is doing what she can and and and supporting that but she doesn't live next door to it she doesn't see all the things that we see she um and I can't only I invite you to come to our home sometime and just see what happens okay um can I ask a question um so and I think you just got to the Crux of it we've heard lots of things about terrible this company is now now you're alluding to the mayor having a conflict of interest which I don't even see that one so what let's get to this how is it impacting you versus were you living there when the nursing home was there yes we were I was also a volunteer there okay hospice volunte so tell me what is the difference in your day-to-day life between when the nursing home was actually there and now a substance abuse the traffic more traffic in and out there's more employees that work there they also are parking in the church that's just two doors down they're using that D that parking area we have more

people traveling up and down 46th street now we have a semi trucks that come and deliver food it's the Cisco food company that's one of their suppliers weren't they delivering to the nursing home not to this extent not to this extent the um we've had more traffic obviously because Pendleton Pike is now one way Eastbound and we people come on 46 street so we have a lot more traffic and more um people traveling along there but we also we've asked them we sent a letter we asked them there's a out front there's a bush that impedes visibility to come out of our driveway and nothing's been done about it it's where the old sign we used to be for the Lawrence Manor nursing home they want I think if they would allow people to I came I went in one day to we lost our cat I knocked on the door and buzzed they buzzed me in the lady that was was there she goes we don't allow any of that here and I'm thinking I'm just asking you to post a a Lost Pet so we can't do that I mean they were very she was very very in cordial and not inviting and I just felt like wow and she goes well this is a drug reham sitter and I said I'm fully aware what it is I know what this is and that's I mean I I don't pass judgment on anybody all I know is is that it has disrupted our daytoday life the lighting that's on that west side of the building it's literally like daylight and we can read our newspaper and we're like 300 400t away from it in our living room that's how bright those lights are it's just if they' gone and done things the proper way like we all are supposed to do it' probably be a different thing but it's not been done that way and they have deceived the City of Lawrence so Pastor I do have a question for you um I'm curious can you elaborate on why you suggest that they go to a different location well first of all the nursing

home back in 1960 is not even was not even properly zoned in and um so a nursing home just shows up in a residential area it's still zoned residential it's not been changed um and so we thought well great the nursing homes closed for and there was like years that went by and then all of a sudden there's activity going on and we noticed that there was stuff going on at this the building and we thought wow so we we know sure was going on but we we were told that it was going to be a drug rehab center from past employees that were at the nursing home um it was nice when it was not being occupied it was quieter we didn't have police runs we didn't have the fire department there every three or four times a month I mean it's just been so is it fair to say that you you wouldn't even want the nursing home there no I'm just saying that if it were a nursing home we probably wouldn't have as many police runs and uh fire trucks thank you and we know that the city city of we're in the City of Lawrence so the city of La city of Indianapolis has really nothing to do quite honestly this is City of Lawrence this is where it sits it's on the South Boundary of of of Lawrence and uh we always say that we're Southside of the tracks and we get left out quite a bit and we do still um I you know I I wish because I promised I was going to ask you tough questions too I wish you had brought documentation supporting your claim of increased um runs by we've requested that from the city we've requested it by the uh forms um act where we can actually but it's not been delivered to us yet did you well that would be I don't know how the call centers operated here in Lawrence but in Indianapolis it's different what's the same thing I think is not I'm sure we could get those documentation but anyway that would have been help I mean that would have been helpful to see right now we have

anecdotal and we're only hearing from you you how many people are in this area residents how many there roughly 65 of US 65 to 80 of us in that area okay and we the petition that you saw that that we we put around at the beginning when all this started happening and we never got the opportunity to come forward because they didn't do things properly to have a rezoning done or a variance done we all know how that's supposed to work Tom you I've gone through it with our businesses and so forth we had to go through that make sure that we were doing what we were supposed to do it's it's just a matter of fact that if they' done things the proper way it probably been a little bit different but they've been deceitful and they've done things that have not been truthful and that to me is not acceptable and you could have negotiated covenants if they had gone through the other process maybe addressing things such as Landscaping lighting I just feel like that they have now are now that they need to get something to concretely get funding like they need to have and all the things that have to happen to keep this facility open that now this is critical they have to get this done because it's the last thing they have to do before they can go to the next step whatever that might be but all I know is is that we are I believe that people need help yes and there are PE there we have a a pandemic basically of of drug related issues and people have crises and I understand on that mental health and and there should be more opportunities for them absolutely but the point that I'm making is that things were not done properly procedurally we're all held to that responsibility if I was standing here because I violated something I didn't do something I wouldn't expect you guys to say oh that's okay Kathy it's okay I'd expect you to do exactly what I I hope

that you do to tonight but you understand that they did what they were allowed to do that the law allowed them to follow this procedure whether we like it or not the law allowed them to do that and do we know that yeah I think so because as as they stated that you can go in when the use isn't um uh elucidated in the zoning code you can go and ask for this special opinion and then it carries apparently the effect of law but I never heard of anything like this I hadn't heard of it until this case but I do have a question though to you you didn't even know it was operating and it's been it's been open for the last three years two and a half three years no he didn't I mean I'm what I'm trying to say is that how often have you gone down south on Post Road to 46th Street and driven by the so-called nursing home drug rehab facility mental facility substance abuse system you know facility you haven't you don't live there that's the difference well if the requirement were to live there and or to live in all the neighborhoods we have to overse but but I'm trying to share with you is is that you're not affected by it we are on a day-to-day basis anyway any more questions I I just it seems like this is the first time this facility ever excuse me folks came before a public body to vote sorry no is there excuse me for just a second folks first of all I want to apologize for getting a little upset I got upset because the first thing I was told I had three minutes okay um I don't want to leave you with the impression that I somehow don't want

people to get help believe me I lived in drug and alcohol addiction now the doc left uh but he mentioned the 71% success rate at this facility he and I both know the truth of that 71% that stays for the 28 day program 90% of those go straight to their drug dealer when they leave that is addiction it is a horrible monster well we're not here to discuss yeah that's here sir yeah yeah this we're here to make a decision tonight about billing they are not the one that are helping there are those that help this is a billing company I'm sorry I I know you don't get it you had to be there you had to see it together it okay Bor are we ready to vote or you had no I'm I'm I have a question for staff okay I went back and looked at the original package and there was a staff report in there and the staff report recommended that we vote against affirming this the next staff report came out that we have for tonight and it contains absolutely no opinion and I can't ask our person cuz he's not here so what what why why did it CH it did it change Rene underneath the bus but she spoke to someone brand new she didn't speak to the mayor and um from the time that this Administration has been involved um it has always been our foresight to help establish and go through the right um process to get this um validated one of the things I want to bring to your attention again how

important it is for us to make sure we make the right decision because this also could be a test that downtown is looking at us as we're trying to get our full control over the bza in the City of Lawrence um there's always an opportunity to repeal this and it will go downtown and they will make the final decision and so hopefully we show how strong we are so that we can make the decision that affects Lawrence and not have Indianapolis involved in the Lawrence decisions so that was a misunderstanding because this Administration has been fully behind the treatment center so the original reported misunderstanding uh yes Renee spoke with um our new chief of staff and he did not and was not familiar with this and then I asked that we bring it to the the bza as a full hearing did I not Renee yes ma'am yes because I think both parties should have the opportunity to present their case to you so that you can make the right decision and comfortable with your decision that you made I hope I answered your question did I answer your question well um yeah yeah thank you mayor okay any other questions any other concerns are we ready to vote Yes the board will be voting on 24 lp08 8935 East 4 6 Street partial 43610 City of Florence LCD number two Zone D3 chosen Lawrence manner LLC doing business as Hickory treatments Lawrence is requesting affirmation of

administrative determination that specially type substance use disorder res residential addiction treatment facility is similar to a nursing home thank you we have three votes in favor two votes to deny so the motion passed or the administrative approval passes thank you very much for your time and attention if you want to keep this you're welcome too if you don't I will recycle them on your behalf thank you very much we will hear new business 24 lsv1 10345 Macy Court parcel 404 2767 City of Lawrence LCD number four Zone thir I3 bgp development LTD is requesting a variance of development standard of chapter 744 article 4 section 4 d6.4 to allow a compacted arrogated base as permanent surface not permitted hello I didn't do my whole raise my hand thing because I didn't know if I talk okay I will I will give you the if you have okay do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth answer I do yes I do thank you state your name address present your

case I've never done I'm my name is Chris Sears um I am at 10443 East 56 Street um and we're here for a variance for a property that bgp is going to be building um to do um leave the millings and the um current uh stuff that's there instead of putting Asphalt in you're talking point extra I I gave yes it is point de okay yeah with Point exra Excavating bgp property or um LTD so you're building another facility or bgp properties is building a facility on point extra drive off Macy Court yes and you're going to do what there are currently millings um and I filled out the variance uh information which gives you all the benefits and and what we want to do with that um but we want to right now it's an aggregate base we want to leave that instead of putting asphal there is a landscaping landscaping company that will be going in there and it'll be beneficial to have that um aggregate there because it will help with the flow no puddling um and it it's been there for years and so really it's just an environmental thing it would be better to just keep the aggregate base than to dig it all up and put asfalt down uh can we take a step back what is this facility what's its business I just said that it's a landscaping company is going to be renting that property okay and so you're talking about having mil millings there's this is already a prior existing um land yeah it's it's it's got millings compacted millings that are already there aggregate aggregate okay and what is that aggregate used for

nothing for the it's recycled asphalt ma'am okay recycled asphalt yes so it's millings so when we go in and we remove payment pavement those are called millings okay they recycle them and put them back down um so I'm going to help Chris out a little bit here so there's already it's already a parking lot lot yes they are going to be building a building and they want to leave the part where they're going to be parking their trucks as aggregate so as Milling Stone to help with uh tracking of the dirt drainage and those kind of things they'll have a paved parking area for their employees and visitors this is just going to be in an area where they're storing their equipment is what they're asking for permission okay sorry I appreciate it cuz I'm I do a lot of things at Point Dexter talking about aggregate is not one of [Laughter] them does the board have any questions at this time not any longer okay thank you wa I do I do oh okay does anybody say you have to put asphal yes requires it yes which is why we're here asking for the VAR is okay zoning requires a permanent surface which would be asphalt concrete and um the trend is leaning more towards allowing uh millings or gravel more porous more porous um less uh impervious area yes impervious good word yes thank you this late at night she's got big words so that that's the plan we're not near a

well field with this right no sir this is a completely Industrial Area it's um as you're driving down 56th Street and you've gone over Pendleton Pike it's on the right by Best Equipment and then Macy court is an Industrial Drive that goes all the way through to 52nd Street for the buses so a lot of the transportation goes through that way yes so it's all industrial no neighborhood around it that would be affected okay any other questions thank you we'll hear from any remonstrator for or against the petition I don't think there's anybody in there I'll no you have to come up Liz got we have to have you on reford Liz Liz mour 6 203 Carrington Drive Indianapolis uh it makes sense to continue having this surface that's more porous it'll be better for rain runoff and instead of having the hard surface of the asphalt if it's not necessary thank you thank you okay anybody else for against the petition we'll hear from the City of Lawrence please um the City of Lawrence is in favor of this petition we Rec recently just a few meetings ago approved another landscaping company to have aggregate as their parking lot and um so there's been a precedent set and um like I said previously this is already a gravel lot with millings and just the area where they're parking their equipment is going to be kept that the rest of it will be asphalted where the customers or employees are going to

be parking so we don't have to worry about them getting muddy or dirty or whatever and it is not they don't have a lot of customers coming in this is mainly employees they just they have a lot of their equipment coming in and out so okay any questions for the city anything else to add ma'am no okay the board now will be voting on 24 lsv1 City of Lawrence LCD number four Zone i3 bgp development LTD is requesting a variance of development standard of chapter 744 article 4 section 4 d 6.4 to allow compacted arrogated base as permanent surface not permitted it's unanimously approved thank you you're welcome we approve back and ask for perable I will definitely to thanks Chris we'll hear our next uh new business is 25- Al v-2 6621 OLV Street uh partial 400 2296 City of Lawrence LCD number five Zone D5 April break has requested a varies of use of table in a D5 District minimum of a C1 required hi I'm April break 2379 West 700 North McCordsville Indiana 46055 and just became the new owner of 6621 Ali Street I am here to ask for a variance for a small Midwifery practice um I've been practicing for 10 years um and our practice uh sees women and

children like newborns um and they are their desire is to birth at home and um I'm licensed as a midwife to provide those services and so when they come and see me we have an office and they come and they are scheduled for an hour and we just talk we have discussions um we talk about um just a normal pre needle and then um after we go to them to their home and have some visits um during prenal and then postpartum after they have their baby at home and then they come back to the office um for um up to 6 weeks for the um postpartum for the mom and up to six weeks for the newborn we have we wanted to look at um a home setting for offices because of the fact that they're choosing home birth for a cozy environment they don't want to go to a hospital to birth their children and so they want something more cozy and so typically um offices are more sterile and a home environment is more relaxing um we attend to we want to keep the home um looking like a residential home it does have a back entrance on Pendleton Pike and so we were we're wanting to use that entrance to the back of the house um and have parking in the back of the house so nobody's going to be coming and going off of oldie Street it will be strictly through the penlon pike exit or like entrance and exit um so we hope to bring I mean we're changing some things in the home to aesthetically make the home you know better and more curb appeal um there are a lot of trees that are needing to come down just so that the curb fiill is is

better yeah so where are you right now you're currently in your home in I am currently in an office in Fortville um I've been in Fortville for the last eight years um before then I did home visits I actually strictly just went to their homes and as my business uh got bigger we are a very small practice we see about 50 to 60 people a year that's about six clients a month um through the through the year so only six people are actually delivering babies at home um and you're going to come and go with those months of course like we'll have a busy month and we won't have a very busy month so um as far as prenatals go we schedule like at their very beginning you schedule an hour for their prenatal so we're not there's not a lot of traffic we see people on Tuesdays and Thursdays um and our office hours are usually 9: to 4:30 now that will definitely vary because if somebody has a baby on Tuesday we got to reschedule and have them come on Wednesday or a Friday um our goal is never to work on the weekends because we're typically delivering babies on the weekends we try to just keep our office days um on Tuesdays and Thursdays so there's not a lot of people coming at once to that location um so it's not going to be a lot of foot traffic for sure um as far as my location currently um we have really bad parking and when you were talking about moms and babies um pregnant women coming in um having this type of location and parking is so much more sustainable for our for our ladies and our children um coming in our moms and babies so and typically our moms and

babies just don't come pregnant they come pregnant with their three children you know to come in with them um and I feel like a lot of our families choose mid with free care because one they don't have family in their Community to watch their kids and so it's easier to stay home have babies or be able to go to your Midwife and be able to have a cozy environment to take your kids and they can play in the same room as they're getting their prenal done um so yeah how many is it just you or so I have another Midwife um and and uh two other nurses and we're all part-time so we do not work a full-time so yep and we're not there all at one time we usually three people are usually there at the office um one nurse and two midwives so April pardon my ignorance here so what's the difference between AA and a midwife a other so adulla is someone um a doula is someone that is more just physical support so they come and support the women that are giving birth so um emotionally and um physically and a midwife um we care for them through preconception all the way up to um postpartum six weeks postpartum and we care also care for the newborn up to six weeks um as far as what we do uh you know each prenal is a risk assessment right so we're we're having conversations we're getting to know our clients it's a little bit different it's a lot of different than um OB care versus Midwifery care we're having more um trusted relationship obviously we don't have that client load like an Obi

does and we get to know our clients um on a more familiar basis and um build trust um with our with our a training similar to an OBGYN I ask cuz my daughter-in-law is a du out no so um so we we practice the art of Midwifery um so we don't practice medicine um when it comes to that so we don't have prescripted of authority um but we do have training so we go to college and um we get our um we precept under midwives and um we get licensed yeah and then we can practice Midwifery but I currently am only licensed in the state of Indiana to provide home birth services so I don't women are not birthing in over street they're biring they're birthing in their own home um and um I can't practice in a hospital setting or in a birth center so yeah me clear I was trying to find work for my da in-law that's okay that's okay yeah that's good Duos are amazing yeah yeah thank okay any other questions thank you anybody here uh for or against uh the petition good evening I'm Christine Griswald I live at 8202 Kent Allen Court in Indianapolis and um I am a registered nurse that I've worked in the Home Care setting for about 10 years and I've also been a patient many times s in the medical field because I've had a chronic illness to manage throughout my pregnancies I've always chosen to work with the certified direct entry midwives

for my prenatal care for my pregnancies and my births and the infant care because of the generous time education relationship building and the holistic health benefits of working in that sort of clinical practice and home care services that they provide I recently became a client of Serene Midwifery this past year with the pregnancy and birth of my fourth child um during the emotionally and physically vulnerable stages of pregnancy birth and postpartum the quiet secure familyfriendly environment that Serene Midwifery creates in their office setting is extremely valuable to women and children they continue to bring that environment into the client's home at the time of birth and car for the whole family as a client having the provider's office in a home environment versus a professional office lowers Stress and Anxiety it Fosters connection and learning safety and accessibility and parking is also a key benefit to pregnant women and the young children that they often have in tow the desired location that April is looking to move her business toward would be perfect for the business to flourish and will also provide an appealing visible asset along Pendleton Pike and to the surrounding neighbors homes as a medical professional I can testify that what Serene Midwifery brings to the community is expert multi-disciplinary care they Empower women to understand their bodies and to care for themselves and their children through accepting supportive relationships and holistic care physically emotionally and spiritually they will provide a huge service to this community with a small

footprint this community is diverse and it attracts growing families and I think Serene Midwifery would be a huge benefit thank you thank you anybody else for against the petition I'm Megan short 1387 West Limestone Way Fortville Indiana um my oh yeah um I am a registered nurse I'm currently working in the niku at Community North um where I have been for 10 years um I personally have chosen Serene Midwifery for um the prenatal birth and postpartum care of my three children um because of the holistic education guidance and support that they provide um during this time um s Midwifery is a small um uh run business that serves um local families for many women pregnancy is not a state of sickness and for the lowrisk mama mid Midwifery care provides many benefits um serene's goal is to come alongside these women to educate assess counsel assist and provide primary care for these women and babies um so in this location I believe that Serene Midwifery would greatly benefit the health and the well-being of the City of Lawrence in the surrounding area um this location is a great spot that's Central to many of their clients um and easily accessible for their routine prenatal and postpartum appointments um they would provide this community with a huge service to the growing families um just in a great

convenient location thank you thank you hi I'm Julia Ramos um 8749 Apple be Lane Indianapolis 46256 um I won't uh totally be repetitive but I Echo a lot of what the last two ladies have said I also have received care um for my previous pregnancy um from Serene mrey and just kind of coming from a perspective of someone who grew up in Lawrence went to Lawrence Township Schools and have settled in my own home in Lawrence um just how excited I am about the possibility of the the location of the business moving from forville to Laurence I think it's going to be a huge asset and um I'm just looking forward to that uh hopefully coming to pass and know that a lot of um other families will benefit from uh that as well well so thank you thank you like the question sure state your name and address for the record for me yes I'm Michael De burer 1270 Broadway Street just around the corner for me folks welcome to the neighborhood um my question is concerning this variance is uh is it specifically for Mid Midwifery or we talk about future use you know when you're when you're looking at zoning and that sort of thing um what does this open the neighborhood to would be my question and my concern we can limited the variance to this house to this specific business yeah yes and so if she would move or

sell then it goes away yeah I I think we'd be happy to have you but you know we don't want to leave this an open-ended sort of that's what you're looking that's what you're so yeah so another business couldn't go in correct that's right we can't limit limit limit it to just this business to do that do we just make a motion a commitment yeah it just it's a commitment but we will need a motion that we include that as a commitment a second a vote and then we'd vote on the petition okay okay okay anybody else for against the petition hi my name is Angel Marshall um I live at 100091 o Caven Drive McCordsville um oh it's happening um um well I'm just going to keep this short so um I'm a longtime client of serin M wifery um for nine years um I just actually went through it with uh pregnancy birth and postpartum with my fifth um I was 20 when I first found Serene mid wrey um as a young first-time mom looking for Pregnancy Care and a team who would deliver our first baby was the support and care we were searching for um since our first born was delivered I've always chosen to work with April and Kayla from maternity care because is the educational education and personal relationships that um they provide with their home services um Serene mrey has empowered not only me but other women to understand our bodies and how to care for ourselves and our children so as a client having um this function or this uh practice in a homeing environment versus professional

office um number one lowers the stress for me as having multiples and not having family around so this um home birth and just being somewhere where I can go with my family um helps relieve stress um and it's you know having a quiet secure familyfriendly environment that is extremely valuable for me um also parking is a priority I always look for parking spots um close and uh safety for my kids CU they're always in toe so um yeah thank you thank you any any other people for or against okay we'll hear from the City of Lawrence the City of Lawrence is in favor of this petition it's a good use for the property there's multiple properties in this area that are mixed use with small businesses and residential the intent is to keep it appearing residential The Limited hours for use I think is this is a good fit for that mixed use neighborhood that is zoned for that area um I do like the idea of making it specific to this business and that way the board gets to hear any future uses before it's used would be our recommendation does the petitioner have any objection to doing no we had talked about that previously okay so you need a motion mayor would like to say something yes I'm sorry I saw the figure I wasn't sure I I was a church um I just want to acknowledge the neighborhood um showing how we can come together with the neighbors and a

facility um that means a lot because they asked they wanted it but they wanted to make sure it would be limited and keep you know the business and things so I want to applaud the neighbors for Le coming speaking and showing how they're willing to work with uh a future business in the city I hope we see more of that in Lawrence thank you thank you petitioner do you have anything else to add demonstrators then the board's ready to vote on 25 L we need a motion first I'll make a motion we restrict to this one use I'm sorry mfy M wery people say either okay so the board will be voting with um limiting it to this petitioner only this petitioner only it's 25 value V2 6621 OLV Street partial 400 2296 City of Lawrence LCD number 5 Zone D5 April break has requested a variance of use of table 7431 to allow a medical office mid wiery consult consultion in a D5 District it's unanimous you're approved at this time the Lawrence Board of zoning appeals is adjourned