Planning & Zoning - Regular Meeting

Commissioner Thurston. Yes. Commissioner Costa. Yes. Mr. Scott? Yes. And Commissioner Costa. Yes. And. Chair. Yes. Thank you. All right. Continuing business on 6.1. It is a request for approval of an intense. Subdivision. And I will turn it over to staff for presentation. Thank you, chair, for the committee, for the record. First case before you is case 24 CS 0500025, which is a proposed preliminary plat of the Heather Hills preliminary plat. It is located within address of 5150 Stern Drive. Total area encompasses roughly 22 acres in size and is currently zoned R1 A, which is single family. Medium density would be NH one S under realize. It is located within what is the sub suburban neighborhood place type under Elevate Las Cruces. It is accessible through. Silverado, which comes off of Stern Drive and then heads down south towards Pebble Brook drive onto Rocky Drive, which is out into the county. Give you an idea where this is. Stern drive the main access for this point that is a designated minor arterial roadway is designated not by Las Cruces, but also the metropolitan planning. Organization Plan. And Rocky Road is designated as a collector roadway as well. Just to give you a look around there and I'll show you a little bit more when we get to the area. There are single family residential uses, which is basically the northern portion of this master plan area to the north from the residential standard industrial, low density residential land uses and multifamily low density to the south, Interstate ten to the east and agricultural to the

west. Showing the property here. I don't know. I think somewhere over here, back in a few years ago, where this area was actually the master plan was amended in order to allow for this subdivision. So this was part of the Heather Hills master Plan area. So showing here that our area that we're speaking of right now here is that area showing that undeveloped area, industrial area, residential multifamily to the south, that other existing to the north and agriculture to the west. Here is what that preliminary plat looks like. So this preliminary plat does follow the master plan called out for the master plan was approved back in November of 2023 by the Planning and Zoning Commission. Basically eliminated condition on the property which limited this property to only be developed for essentially a school or institutional use. That condition was removed by the Planning Commission. All the master plan was on zoning and then went up to City Council, and that was approved as well to remove the condition. In February of 2024. So this new preliminary plan, Beverly Hills subdivision does follow the master plan as required by the City of Las Cruces subdivision code. Just a minute. Get you kind of oriented where this is. So this is looking northeast off of silver office address. And this would be one of the main entry points here looking at looking west towards the. Where that development will be taking place. There you can see it. That raw land to the west looking down south to that industrial properties property. The proposed merger at this point, to that existing subdivision to the north at this point, Pebblebrook continuing down south. And of course, that is Cobblestone Creek, that which

extends down south to the subdivision as well. So when staff analysis, we didn't we didn't see any health, safety or welfare issues associated with the proposed preliminary plan. And on top of that, as stated before, the one of the biggest things that a preliminary plat is required to do is follow an approved master plan, which this does. It does follow the master plan, does follow all zoning regulations per lot size requirement, dimensions, development standards and so forth like that. And in this environment in the area. Public notice was sent out to our adjacent property owners as required by code said received one phone call just inquiring, inquiring about the development and its statuses and when the next phase will happen, when the develop will happen, and so on and so forth. Like the. With that oops. My apologies. This should be first album February 19th of 2024 BRC did review this proposed preliminary plat. After some discussion. Excuse me between staff and the applicant for some minor changes that needed to be done to the plan that could be done administratively before coming before the Planning Zoning Commission. They did recommend approval for the proposed preliminary plat. So with that staff and the DRC does recommend approval based on the following findings. Plat follows all requirements of the Master Plan and the R-1 zoning district. It is. It has significant neighborhood compatibility with what is the existing normally developed more metropolitan area. The request is consistent with the suburban neighborhood place type as called out by Elevate Las Cruces, as well as meets the purpose and intent of the 2001 zoning code. The subject in Las Cruces Municipal Code section 2-3 82. So with that, your options are one. Vote to yes. Yes and approve the

proposed preliminary plat as recommended by staff and the DRC to vote no and deny. Two three to vote for men or for table. Vote to table and postpone to direct staff accordingly. That is the conclusion of mine presentation. The applicant and the representative are here for any questions and I stand for questions. Thank you. Any questions from the Commission? I've got a couple questions. First question is I'm making an assumption that this they're following the previous development code, not the one that was just adopted. Correct. Mister chair, that is correct. They are, because this master plan was approved under the previous code, under the 2001 code and the previous subdivision code, and that is what they're following. That is correct, sir. Okay. Thank you. Any just have a couple of questions. I'll just start with what maybe is the easy ones first. So I noticed there a there's a track B. Tract E. And a track D I'm not sure if there's a track C or not, but I'm wondering if you can speak to what those what those tracks are for the representative before having to take care of that for you, sir. Thank you. Please come forward. And before you answer that question, we need to swear you in. So if you can state your name for the record, can you state your name for the record? Zach. Libby. And that's where the testimony of alcohol was the truth and nothing but the truth under penalty of law. I do. Okay. Go ahead please. Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Zach Levine, living under an engineering and surveying. And to answer your

questions, tract A is to be dedicated for right away to the nmdot along Stern Drive. Tract C is a 20 foot platted road that runs along between that sort of industrial zone to area and the residential lots. A long. Yeah, I can see that. So that's dedicated and. Improved as a result of the pool? No, that's not what Trump is doing, is dedicating half to those other property owners and half to this subdivision, because that was a platted but never dedicated or accepted road. And it doesn't go anywhere. And it's just a no man's land there that doesn't go anywhere. And rather than living in no man's land there, that could be problematic. It's being split half and half with those adjoining property owners. And specifically, track C is the ones being dedicated to the other property owners. Okay. And track A and tract E is an existing utility easement. And that is going to be dedicated to the city. It contains a wide variety of utilities there. It's going to be asphalt and asphalt and left as a utility track there. Again, it includes a city sewer line, a water service, and. Telephone utilities. It's got a bunch of utilities in there, and that's been dedicated to the city. And then track B and D are the ponds. It has an attenuation pond. As the stormwater comes underneath the interstate. It's got an attenuation there so that that can be allow the sediment to

drop out and then be channeled in down the road from there. But again, sort of a feature to allow that drainage coming underneath the interstate to then come in in a, in a manageable way, in a maintainable fashion. Okay. Thank you. Two follow up questions on staff. The fact that utility easement, it's going to be paved completely. That's. A little over an acre. Complete. Okay. Mr. Chairman, I think it'll be paved. No landscaping, just pure asphalt. Mr. Chair. Landscaping typically isn't allowed in utility easements just because of the potential of any type of vegetation messing with underground utilities in the area. A lot of our utilities department in other departments, they kind of have headaches sometimes when we do do landscaping. So that's why it's just being paid for now for can just be utilized by the city as they need in the future. Sir. Okay. It seems to me that we would just pay the 10th of an acre. For the occasional access. My preference would be for some sort of landscaping to just leave it as a desert scrub. It just seems in today's day and age, the urban heat island. That seems to be a little unnecessary in my opinion. I don't see. Could you speak a little bit more about how that plays into just the overall development plan of the area? It seems like I understand what the applicant just said, but we've got. Two,

potentially three cul de sacs. That are potentially connected and made it more connected network there in the neighborhood, especially with future development potentially. And we did actually have a question along those lines, I believe. But your area of image in the presentation was different than was in the staff report. But there there looks like there's an existing subdivision. I guess this would be to the. East of the industrial park, for example, mobile home park. Maybe that there's a dog in the ones that would. Presumably could have been a connection point. Just if you could speak to sort of the connectivity and how it fits with future development, that'd be great. It's just along the utility though, right? It's just along the. So this is an Elephant Butte Land Trust Road, but it just doesn't end here. It ends there. And it was already vacated their right. Mr. Chair. So that was what what was the what was the first company where they just basically somebody in a larger city went and dropped, drew imaginary lines up in the desert. So this is a 20 foot road that they they drew on a plaque that really went nowhere. Unfortunately, it's already been vacated to the north. That's where it went into that residential subdivision to the north. But it really didn't go any further south than that. Or it kind of terminated right where it was in that industrial area. Excuse me. But I believe the actual trailer park that. Lot of Golden Road and its colonies road. I believe that's just an easement as well. So it's not a natural right of way that would allow for connectivity. Unfortunately, sir. Okay. But presumably if the if the those two lots that are manufacturing or something right

now, if those were to be developed in the future presumably. Well I guess they're just being revamped. Is that correct? Or the road extending to the south? Mr. Chair, because it seems to the south pass not a it ends. Right. Essentially where I want to start, sir. Gotcha. Okay, so just an awkward artifact. Yes, sir. Thank you. I believe those are all questions that I have. And I really hope that we reexamine the rationale behind paving that 10th of an acre. Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. This is the preliminary phase of this. During planning and construction. Drawings and stuff. Something staff will definitely bring up to our public works department. Are you the utilities department and Parks and Rec? If we could do something a little more passive in that area, sir. I appreciate that. Sure thing. Any questions? Any questions from the Commission, from the public. All right. Seeing none. Is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak on this item this evening? Can I just see a show of hands? I see one individual. All right. Would you come downstairs and we'll give you three minutes to speak? And before you get started, can you state your name for the record? My name is Louis. And the firm and testimony of Mr. Yes, sir. All right. So I live in the area just on the government. And Doug Crawford's was back in 2008 when the first phase of the building. And then recently they completed some more houses to the south. So the only thing I want to bring up is and I voiced this in previous meetings going back to 2008, the need for some significant limestone,

especially now there's another 80 homes are going to be built more over the last 15 years, whatever it's been since those houses have been built. And between Choya and. It's Broadmoor or Choya and Stern, which is the major intersection shown on the ground, there was just north of me, not even a quarter of a mile north of that. Quite a bit of traffic over the last 15 years have been built up, and I hope that we're not waiting for an accident or some serious injuries or deaths to occur. I don't recall. Hopefully this has taken into consideration by the city some sort of traffic control. If you go in front of the entrance doors, if we're heading south on strong drive past these major entrance. And now Silverado and Stern, which is the entrance for the second phase, and now the third phase. Supposed to be going on now living up there. We've got to be careful for some blind spots. And people often go faster than 40 miles an hour along that that area. And if you're familiar with that area, they built the I-10, I-25 interchange, very large bridge area. And again, it's is about looking north from when you're exiting. So you've got to be very careful about when you enter Stern Drive. So that's my concern. The second concern is some sort of park for that area. Again, this is my safe city hearing over the last 15 years. And I've heard from the developers. They're going to build a park. That was the only area which is west of these areas. It's quite large retention pond. They built during the second phase going back to 2021. Nice area which used to have the temporary which was wet and full of mesquites and saltbush and mosquito attraction. Since they built that drainage area. The mosquito

problem has deteriorated quite a bit, which is thank God for that. But apart, we've talked about putting some sort of green area for kids in that area has not been any movement on that. And in fact, it's kind of been neglected. They have some drainage areas that go into the on the surface as well as through stormwater drains. The surface water flow, there's some bars there that have been an area of activity of vandalism. The bars there have been removed, thrown into the drainage area. I've informed the city. So just a little care for that area. Jamaica. Nice for the residents to take their kids in a walk or whatever. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? Wishes to speak on this item? One last. All right. Seeing none, we'll come back to the commission. Commissioner Smith. Concerns about traffic. Bicycles are used to. Right. To drive around. I and because of the volume of traffic and speed. So definitely appreciate your concerned about that. Legitimate concern. Mister chair, go ahead. Staff, I have a couple questions for you. One was when was the last traffic study done in this area? Was it recently within the last 3 to 5 years, or was it prior to that? Mister chair. Commissioner, it's been about that when University Meadows, just to the north, came into effect. They needed to do some type of traffic study for that entrance there per not only the city, but nmdot as well. To remind everybody, stern drive is

under under Dot's domain, if you will. So even access points. New roads and we needed to receive approval from enemy. So that was the last time that was done. Ma'am. So my next follow up question to that is every time they added a new segment of the subdivision, do they have to renew that traffic study or would that subdue from there? Mister chair, Commissioner Acosta. Essentially, that master plan was the master plan, that traffic study was also produced, not an actual traffic impact, but a traffic study was also submitted with the master plan amendment. So they have those a number of generations of trips, number of proposed houses, and that was provided to and built as well. So any type of improvements that they would need at the time of construction, and then D.O.T. Will make them do those improvements to Stern Drive. Thank you. And then I have one more question. Follow up question. In any of this master plan, is there any green area or parks planned? To the best of your knowledge, chair. Commissioner Costa, there are there is the. Since this is part of it as well. There is a there is a part plan in further phases which is a relatively decent sized park that is part of the master plan area. And since this is master plan and that's what's the area of contact for a park that was approved, ma'am. Thank you. Yeah. Go ahead. Commissioner. What is the trigger for the park? Is it after this, one of the next phases down. Chair. What causes that? The chair and Commissioner Thurston. It depends on how it gets phased out. So University Meadows was actually phased out.

And that's where the park was supposed to be. This one is not in phase. This is all being done at one fell swoop. So since this is a separate facial, that part of the same master plan area, it's that one that's done in that phase. But it gets done with that subdivision of up north. What triggers it is depending on where the park gets a designated in a national plan or a linear plan, then at the time of the final final plan, construction drawings come in. That's when it gets built out, essentially, and that's when parks gets involved. Make sure that what facility is being provided meets the standards of the city. So currently we just be collecting park phases. Mister chair Commissioner, essentially until the park gets built, I would say. That parks have looking at this development plan. Has there been an area designated for a future park? Mister chair, Commissioner Smith, my name is Heather Hills subdivision. There's no area designated for parks there. But in the master plan. But in the master plan? That is correct. There is other areas in this. Excuse me. In this matter that were designated for parks for this master plan was originally approved back in. About 2006. Over 20 years ago. And so back then, those standards are a little different than they are now. So parks might be a little worse for and. Wear that they are now for requirement of today's code. If I look at this point, I think it's 2005. Yes, sir. Thank you. So my question,

I guess because I was born in 2006 and I think you reference an amendment to the master plan, maybe 2023, I think it was. I have no recollection of that meeting. So where can you just kind of refresh my memory, at least, of what is the master plan and how are those components fitting together and what what is coming next? Sure thing, Mr. Chair. The master plan area essentially is. A truly highlight of my with my cursor here. That is essentially the entire. So this is what is the University Meadows subdivision, which is part of it. And this is what is the Heather Hills subdivision. That's part of it Park and everything like that was what was being proposed somewhere over here on one of these phases for excuse me, for the University Meadows, this area previous to the amendment in 2023, was designated for a school only. So that 2023, that condition went away for only an institutional use. And now they're trying to do for single family homes. Okay. Thank you. I believe that triggered my memory. I do remember that. So I guess the way that I look at it, the parking, if I'm wrong, I mean, this is the last phase, right? I mean, the rest of the subdivision appears to have been built out. Mister chair, this is this is the last phase of this. This master plan area. So then the park. When is the park getting constructed? Well my apologies. So this is the last phase of what is the master plan. But University Meadows, which is northern Digital's a favor to me that need to get done, sir. Which is where the park is proposed to be located

at, including that additional extension out to another road out into the county to the west as well, sir? Okay. And then just going back to our other concerns about. Traffic control at Stern Drive or really anywhere along Stern Drive in this development. Do we know what types of improvements the state is going to ask for in these particular intersections? Mister chair I, in our last conversations, they don't. Considers a highway and stop signs or lights for leaves and something that they try to do. They try to do what they what. There's new entrances or new roadways going into adjacent to street. They do deceleration or deceleration lanes and acceleration lanes as well. So depending on what the traffic analysis comes up with as to how to resolve any things needed, that has to be required to do with the improvements of the subdivision, sir. Okay. And are there any conversations that happen with the Department of Transportation about the fact that we've got subdivisions, we've got people out biking, walking? I mean, I understand that it's designated a state highway, but I think for all intents and purposes, you go out there and it's basically a collector road, an urban collector road, or at least it's certainly going to be that there were any conversations with the state about, hey, I know you don't like to put up a stoplight, but we kind of need one here if we're talking about, you know, safety. Mister chair, something staff work for the Public Works Department and traffic engineering section to see if we get open lines of communication as to potentially what can be happening. Even signage. I mean, something like

that. That can potentially help as well, sir, but we can definitely start those conversations since that has happened in the past. For instance, along Valley Picacho, there were instances where we had issues and main streets, the town of Memorial family, and they've been more than willing to help us out with issues like that, sir. Yeah. I mean, I think it's more than warranted here, especially as you continue to go up. I think there's more development that's planned along Stern Drive. I think it's time we reevaluate what that what the central purpose of Stern Drive is. And I would sit here and argue that it's not a it's not a rural highway and that we can afford to put some traffic control devices to improve safety. Mister chair, for the record, I concur with that. I think public safety is the utmost importance here, and I think we do need to collaborate with the state and emphasize that. If there's no questions or discussion. Commissioner Thurston. I got one. I just on this on Google form and I want units of the master plan because the water can be seen in. I'm still kind of stuck in traffic for some reason. I it's not clear what as to where the rest of the master plan gets involved, but if I live in your property and the code for this is done. But they don't have to pay the parking unless it was stated in the amount of time, because they could just pay it forward and they the park fees, and then they don't have to install a parking and it becomes a city of cities issue. We'll figure out how to put a parking lot behind and or unless the master plan. Designated. That

law is not the one that was supposed to be given out. Is that correct? Mr. Chair. Commissioners. That is correct. But from what I recollect, and again, this has been years since university. University of Letters was finalized and approved. That should have happened here in this area. The reason that this is, for instance, is because the neighbor here to the north were extremely. Agitated that this subdivision was going in, and they're proposing an actual. Both. Natural excuse me, the road actually be extended through here into their neighborhood. Neighborhood did not want that because they wanted the traffic coming through at the time that the staff was trying to push the that road and then telling them to maybe have the opportunity to have access to a park which is just close to you. It should be around this area right here. So that's why that's why when it to say that the University Meadows subdivision area, there is a proposed park and one of the last phases of the actual subdivision itself. So. Do you have any documentation? I can show you. I don't have it, unfortunately. Commissioner Thurston, do apologize about that. Can I work hundred family members at the developer's comments? But yet it was never. It was approved in the simply in different cases. Right? So. And the city can still receive their funds to be able to put a parking lane. Back in. So I'm just trying to make sure that there's been other instances where there's actually a dedicated space that says you're supposed to build up in an area, and so I don't I don't have

anything to the evidence that you were forced to have the some parking. So. I'm in the opinion that. Just that they're having a hard time. They just have to pay the fee. And then they say that receives the park failed in order for the from what I'm seeing in the park. But I didn't see a parking area is what I'm saying. Is that correct? Mr. Chairman? Thank you, Mr. Smith. And we did. And staff did a review of the general plan. And there's this does allow the master plans for reviewing tonight. It does align with the master plan. So the city of the fee to some degree. However. All right, looking for a motion to approve item 6.1. And 6.8 and seven. Commissioner Costa. Yes. Mr. Costa? Yes, Commissioner. Smith? Yes, Commissioner. Kingston. Yes. And. Chair. Yes. The motion passes. Moving on to item 6.2. This is a request for approval for some additional signage in the University District. I will turn it back over to staff for a presentation. Animatronic the record again. Next we have some variants for property located at 680 East University Avenue. It is located on the southwest corner that is

University Avenue and Washington Avenue. Total property is about eight and a half acres in size, and it is the current location of the Las Cruces Convention Center. It is currently zoned UDC, which stands for University District Convention Zone. As you can tell, it is located within what is our University District overlay showing the property here within the University. Here in. The individual property. And then of course the city limits here to the north, Interstate here to the southwest area here showing that the Commission does pay close attention to this area. Here is what we're looking at for what what the variances that we're requesting for today. And I'll just keep it in this corner here for a previously approved sign that we did for the convention center a couple of years back now. So what we're looking at is the requirements of section 38, Dash 44 .0.6, which is the University District Overlay Signage standards, which allows for a maximum of one. For 70 ground signed per lot. And this doesn't matter what size or anything that you look for that. 1220 four square feet, square feet in area. And we reconciled. We shall not exceed three feet in height max. So essentially what is happening here? We're proposing variables to these standards. So the first one is the first one would be a freestanding signs allow for two freestanding sign. There is one existing kind of advertisement led. Sign for the university and union, which did receive a variance a few years back from the Planning and Zoning Commission. Second, we have to of three feet and four inches to the maximum permitted freestanding site ground height

for 26ft, four inches in height, and then again 261ft. The maximum permitted freestanding size of that size, up to 24 per code. So shown here. Cannabis clinic or an artist's rendition of what that would look like. Again, that that is where there are some existing planters. Kind of gravel area with some. Oh, and there you can see that some. Days and take the right out of the sidewalk, kind of in the elevated area of what is that kind of going towards the parking area for the convention center? It just basically is a the letter that spell out Las Cruces on the Rio New Mexico with some. Designs on that part of the body. So justification was the applicant stated that the sign will help benefit the not only community visitations to the area, but people in the city, but also travelers to visit that area as well. In the area, if you will. And the board stated that, you know, the tourism, travel, hospitality industry has kind of suffered because of Covid 19. You know, economic hardships, low wages, loss of wages and earning capacity is still still being felt here. And we feel that they need the track to help drive the local, but also visitors to this area, you know, to visit and hopefully, you know, spend in those multiple establishments located along the University Avenue corridor. And also think about it as well, since it's relatively close by as well. As we know, public safety, health and welfare issues with the proposed stop the. Did say that the same. Could potentially be a destination spot. People photo op and so on and so forth like

that coming into town. That'd be probably a good starting point for anybody visiting Las Cruces. The convention center site. And the corridor and surrounding area. Potentially adding additional economic development and redevelopment in the area. There are some other really relatively underdeveloped or undeveloped lots close here that would be great for redevelopment. Work actually for boosting the surrounding commerce. And that the proposed variance of staff believes does meet the criteria for approval for a variance as outlined in the 2001 zoning code. Again explained for economic development in in that area of possibly as a as a citywide initiative as well. Public notice was sent out to. Property owners per code. We did receive one phone call from adjacent property owners saying that'd be a welcome to the area, and hopefully that would show more people coming to that area. So one thing that. On March 3rd, the University District Citizens Design Review Committee mouthful did meet to review the proposed variance. We are recommending body to the Planning Zoning Commission. After a very minor expression, I believe the minimum of six minutes. The University District Citizens Design Review Committee did recommend approval for the proposed variance. PNC does have the final say on variance variances unless appeal to City Council. So with that being said, for approval of the proposed sign is the pleasing and surrounding area potentially spur economic development for the city wide level? Very best meets the criteria decision as outlined in article two, section 38, Dash ten K of the 2001 Zoning Code for Public health, safety and welfare issues are

identified. And of course, the March 3rd of this year, the University District Citizens Committee did vote to recommend approval for the proposed variance. So with that, your options are. For yes and vote to approve the proposed language to vote no and deny the vote to lend director activities postponed and direct staff accordingly. That is the conclusion of my presentation and I stand for questions. Thank you. Any questions from the Commission? Commissioner Thurston, with this, with this variance and the previous variance inside. Do you ever think of how much they have done over there for this ordinance? And finally, is the size. Mr. Mr. Chair. Commissioner. You do not, unfortunately, but this itself. This is something that comes to the square footage itself. It's tremendous. I mean, that's what, ten times more times than what's allowed by code. And the reason for that is. When staff was looking at the University District corridor, we're really just looking at the pedestrian area, if you will, closer to university when people are walking. So you don't need a big sign because everybody's walking around that area. So those types of things definitely make sense from those areas. This one's a little more heavily commuted area trying to get into the corridor. It's kind of a little bit different. And staff would argue than than what is what is the true corridor that's further going east along university, sir. That was, if I recall, I'm sorry, the University district policy. I'm sorry. Plan that stated signage and development in the University district should be more of a pedestrian scale. And that is the reason

why the signs are these small but in actual height do not have. Unfortunately. I'm sorry. Any other questions? I've got a couple. My first question is who's. Who's paying for the sign? Is it the city that's paying for the sign, or is it or. Yeah, that's who's paying for the sign. Mr. Chair, or advocates here for any questions, sir? Hello? Hi. Before you answer the question, can you state your name for the record so I can swear you in? Yes. Rochelle Miller Hernandez. And these were testimony about the truth and nothing but the truth under penalty of law. Thank you. Please go ahead. So I am Rochelle Miller Hernandez. I'm the director at Visit Las Cruces. And this sign is being paid for by the Arpa funds that we received to that are dedicated solely to the recovery of the travel and hospitality industry. Got it. Thank you. So the explanation or the rationale given about Covid and the Covid impacts to the tourism industry? I, I weirdly remember of this being the exact same rationale that we received for the first variance that we approved. Don't ask me how I remember that, but I'm almost 100% certain it was the exact same rationale. So my question is, is there any data to support the fact that a subway is what we need to recover from Covid in this industry? So we and just to

explain where I'm going, that was the rationale the first time. And now it's been at least a year. I don't know when we heard that, but it's been at least a year now. We're coming back to the same rationale to have an additional sign. So I'm just wondering, are these things related, or can you just maybe explain the rationale? Is there any hard data to support this? Can you just respond to that? Sure. So first of all, even though they're both categorized as signs, as signs, they have totally very different uses. The first sign on the corner, the monument sign, as we like to call it, was more of an informational sign to let people know what's going on and to benefit the entire city, not just the university corridor. So we do list activities that are going on throughout our city. This sign is more of a destination type of location or attraction that we're trying to create for the university corridor. And when we're creating or developing these, these initiatives, I guess you could say, are these projects, we're looking at a broader range of impact instead of just choosing, for example, one storefront to help or one business, we're trying to see how we can benefit that whole the whole area of the city. I do not have hard data, but I can tell you that many, many cities have signs like these and they attract not only people to them. But as you know, our world is very different now and social media dictates a lot. And people post and tag these cities and then people go and visit. I do ironically, or I don't know if that's the right word, but to take a picture in front of these signs and then they start doing everything else that that city has to offer and spend their money here. So that's the concept that we're we're or the idea that we're following. Okay.

Thank you. Yeah I mean I definitely agree. I mean we see it downtown with some of the murals for sure. I think one of the reservation here is we, you know, variances are not supposed to be something that we just, you know, hand out all over the place. And we've already done one with the worst location. Now we're saying, well actually we want we want more signs. We need more signs. I'm a little concerned about well, what are what are other businesses? I mean, what's to stop them to come before us with the same exact rationale about Covid hurt their business, and therefore, that's why they should get a giant Las Cruces sign outside of their business. So I'm a little, a little wary of the fact that we've already done this once, and now we're doing it a second time. What's to stop other businesses from wanting to do the same thing? That being said, I completely understand the appeal of it. I feel like if this were in a district like downtown or, you know, maybe, you know, in the future in El Paseo, that's a little bit more pedestrianized. I could totally see how this could be a big draw. I'm just not certain that, you know, in front of the convention center, which is surrounded by nothing, that this is really the solution to the problem. Those are just my opinions and thoughts. You're free to respond to them. But that's just kind of where I'm coming from. Mr. Chair, I'd like to bring up one point. The reason we didn't choose downtown is because they're downtown already has a lot of murals and so forth, elements that draw people there. And we do want to draw more people to the university corridor. A lot is being built. And just with that said, I feel like there are a

lot of growth can happen there. And this could help help that. Thank you. And I guess just for staff to maybe address how. More, I mean, are there other examples that you have seen multiple variances like this where, you know, ideally this would have all happened in one go right. But here we are. You know, sort of piecemealing this together. Are there any other examples of where we've seen variances come. And then, you know, a short time later. For really the same thing as for the same variance? Mr. Chair, all that comes to mind would be essentially along the interstat, where, for instance, on we'll have a couple of developments out there where they just put up there. They got they got a variance to the height of a freestanding something because the overpass they got, they got that variance there. So but the problem is though that sounds like in the back of the property. So if we were came into the theater looking for it, but it was a hickory loop which is a completely different street. So they they could never get to that business. So they got a variance. Second site so they could put it up on the Hickory site. So there's one instance where that happened. Just the thought was that. Didn't want to mention as well. They are currently restricted because they're technically speaking if they're located. Good gravy out of the University district. Just let's say there is no commercial. They'd be allowed to do freestanding signs by right. And not restricted this this much in height and this much in size. It's just that they're being in the University district that restrictions are put on. Again, because I pushed back university judicial was supposed to be more of a pedestrian friendly staff feels that's a little bit

further down the university. And this is a little more of a actual driving area, if you will, sir. So I just want to bring that up. Yeah. Thank you. Mr. Smith. I just first off, I know just looking at this very confusing for images. And looking at the photo on the wall and the, the rendering that someone may want to put up. Is that mentioned because you said that? The existing wall there is that from the ground. Or is that just the height of that? All the way from south? Mr. Chair, Commissioner, the actual height is measured on the six foot four inches from the top of the letter to the bottom of the pedestal itself. So staff would take the entire entire structure into, into account when we're looking at variances. Certain. Okay. I think that. Clarification is the 4050. Right. So it's six. It's six feet tall for 45ft wide. Yeah. All right. Commissioner go ahead. Can you flip to the slide to slide that the rationale for being able to do it. So what. When I go to other cities, I've seen signs like these, but I didn't go to the area because of the sign. I go to the area because it's normally filled with other activities. You've

seen, like like those busses. Probably best I think. On both the film and the basketball. Area. And so you see in other places, but it's really predominantly pedestrian where you're having people outside and taking pictures of it. But it's also because it there's, there's other people there. In this case, we're predominantly cars that are going to be driving through there, and I'm going to maintain. The people using them is going to be when people are already at the convention center. So I don't see it as a draw to someone going to say, hey, because of this song, I'm a member of the book, the convention center, where I want to have something here. I can see it. The rationale behind, at least for me, I can see it as I went to the convention center, and then I took a picture afterwards, and then I posted it and I just didn't see the correlation of it actually creating a claim for tourism. Or in my industry, it's more of it's, it's a we have we have any type of corporate place in the middle of. However, I look. Right, you know, if you're there and go you've got my number one fear of this is, is when we have someone else come in and ask for a variance of this size for the same thing. Does that get us into any trouble for approving it for one versus approving it for the other? Because this is six foot four by 45ft wide. So I like it. It looks good, but then when I have somebody else come, Walmart comes in and says, hey, I don't want my six foot 4000 by 45ft wide that says Walmart. You know, I just we would I think we would say no to that one. So I'm

just that's my basis of saying that. I'm not just trying a little bit that I completely see what you're saying about a precedent about, you know, to some extent with with the sign. I guess I'm just to kind of look at potentially whether that's nice to have someone walking in the light and coming right in the town. Well, with automobiles, particularly developed enough for it. I can I can see that. But I'm sure that university Exeter, I spent a lot of traffic and stuff. So I personally potentially like to see, you know, more signage. On at night time around the town. And I obviously typically know other buildings already, you know, taking up towards. That side. But you know. Just trying to look at that. Yeah. I was kind of thinking of over the top that I was going to come back inside. If you're heading to the basically you're driving him face to originally, and if you're pulling it out of the convention center, it's going to be there and it's going to be there. So it is almost like a gateway, you know, kind of to like getting into the city proper. And then I engineer university coming out biking. You know, it's no good fighting for the university. You know, that's something that would be really cool, is almost like a gateway to the city going toward the university. So I. You know, I think I kept looking at the size of it, and I just wondering

if I need it to be that big. But it's something that I think, you know, having a little more lighting, something that's a little bit bigger than the building, but it's kind of working for the city. So. It seems like it would probably work. With this size at the at the convention center because of, you know, the purpose of that building and the proximity to the university. So it's something that I think would. So. Mr. Chair, I would have to concur with Commissioner Acosta. I'm pretty excited about it, actually. I think that if you look at the convention center now, that's kind of our gateway. We have I don't have statistics that I'm sure Raquel does. Our tourists. It really drives a lot of tourists. There are a lot of conventions. And having the sign like this is really exciting. You have the monument sign that gives you information, but if you're passing, you've got to catch it just right. It does have Las Cruces Convention Center, but on top of the building, but you can barely see it. So I think this is going to be a good move for the city if we do grant this variance. And again, variance is a case by case basis. So if Walmart did come forward with it they would have to justify, you know this is the city of the public owned this. I mean we all pay into the Las Cruces Convention Center. So I think it does spur economic development in some aspects. I mean, you know, some people may not want to stop by the function of it, but I know a lot of people do. I know I go to Roswell and see Roswell with the alien, and I stop by and it's the middle of nowhere, and I want to take a picture of it with my family. So I'm pretty excited about this, and I and I understand that you've come up to this council several times with the variance, but I would look at it, you know, and make sure that this is something that we want to do and we're not up for third or fourth or fifth time with these variances. But I'm pretty excited about it. I

think that's a really cool move for us to take. Votes on it, and then we can wrap up the discussion. So is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak on this item? Can I get a show of hands? All right. Seeing none, we'll come back if there's no more questions or comments. Looking for a motion to approve. Mr. Can I make a motion to approve second. This is on the motion to approve. 6.2 Commissioner Acosta yes, Commissioner. Thurston. Both. Commissioner. Smith. Yes, Commissioner. Acosta. Yes, chair. Yes. Motion passes. All right. Looks like we mentioned agenda is an election of officers. I'll look to staff. Are you planning to facilitate that or how? About one one position? So we have chair. Vice chair and secretary. Right. Just those three. 10s. Here. What are the positions again? Chair, vice chair. And apparently secretaries optional. So nodding of heads. Does someone really want to be a secretary. All right then we'll do chair and vice chair. So I think some commissioner makes a nomination and then it gets seconded. So just the nomination and then we'll roll call vote. So for nomination for chair Mr. Chair subsequent I would like to

nominate Commissioner Thurston as chair. This is an option for my chair. Commissioner Thurston as chair. Commissioner Preston. I'm sorry. So just to clarify, you're so this is specifically just voted for Thurston as chairman over the other nominees or that was that was it was that right? That's the motion I know. Yes. Commissioner Thurston. Yes. Commissioner. I can I say it hasn't been a great job. So I had a different way to go someplace. So I guess I would say no. Commissioner Thurston. Yes. Chair. Well, this is awkward. To the chair. Yes. All right. Congratulations. Motion. Motion passes. I'm looking for a motion for commissioner, for vice chair. I want. Current Commissioner Fischer as vice chair. Commissioner? Yes. No.

For Commissioner Thurston. No. Commissioner. Smith. Yes. Commissioner. Thurston. No. And chair. Yes. Okay. It's a tie. Yeah, I've got. It's 3 to 2 motion passes. Yes, I lost track. All right. So. Anyway, Secretary to be secretary. It's optional, I guess. And our minors do have a area for signature of the secretary of the planning Zoning Commission. So we published and that's what's required by code. So should we have a secretary just in case for that? Who wants to be secretary? I don't know, Secretary. Commissioner. President? Yes. Mr. Thurston. Yes. Commissioner. Smith. Yes, Commissioner. Councilor. Yes. And chair. Yes. Congratulations. Motion passes. All right, then, we'll move on to discussion and staff announcements. No further discussion tonight. Chair. Staff announcements. We should have a few cases for next month as well. Looks like things have kind of died down a little bit right now. Well beginning of the year they are picking up unfortunately a little. So we should be having a little bit lengthier of these. So just please make sure you try your

best to be at these meetings. That way we make sure we have quorum out here. But thank you all for coming. Appreciate it. Thank you. And I just wanted to make one request of staff, whenever possible, for the presentation of an update of the Three Crosses redevelopment project. That's the one out at Apodaca Park. At Solano and North Main. I know there's just been a lot of movement. They've really come a long way in some of their infrastructure, so be nice to get just an update on everything that's going on out there. Thank you. All right. Looking for a motion to adjourn? Make a motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor? I will see you in. Thanks for coming out this evening.