Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right. Philip Combmes is excused at this time. Robert Estrada, present. Mark her, present. Lynn Larson, present. Philip Lynholm present. Ellen Telbo present. And Sharon Wallace present. You have a corn madam chair. Right. Thank you. Please stand and join me for the

to the flag of the United States of America. To the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. Okay. So, we will approve the meeting minutes. Uh, does anybody have any questions or motion to approve minutes from October 1st? Second. All those in favor? Hi. Hi.

And so now we will go to agenda updates. Miss Spear, are there no changes tonight, Madam Chair? And then public comment. Do we have any public comment? Uh, no one is here for public comment and no one online either. Perfect. Well, that being said, our chair is timely to open the public hearing for which now I'll pass the gavl over and let him say. Yeah, you're great. Uh, thank you. Uh, so we opened it and there's no comment.

Uh, we have not yet opened the public hearing and if I could, Mr. chair. There's one change I wanted to make sure you saw tonight before we had the hearing. So, um if you'll recall, this was something that was on your agenda last meeting, but um it was requested in the planning commission did continue the planning public hearing until tonight on the potential to expand uh where child care locations are allowed in Lakewood. and child care. Uh there's a number of different terms, but what we're talking about here are commercial child care facilities. Senate Bill 5509 is the reason for this uh discussion that we're having right now. Uh this is something that was adopted this year and it's actually not something the city would have to comply with until June of 27. However, given the attention liquids put to this issue to date and the amount of changes already made, uh it's recommended that we just continue this process, finish up the uh closing the loop for where child care is allowed. What you have under the bill is to allow child care centers as a new structure as well as converting existing buildings for child care centers as outright permitted uses in all zones except industrial, light industrial, and open space. So that's a must. And then there is also the requirement to provide for conditional use approval of on-site child care center in industrial or light industrial zones except in or around high hazard facilities. There is the ability for Lakewood to regulate these uh including those in the industrial zones. One thing to point out that's a little different since last time is that uh the first of all, I'm sorry, there was a question raised last time about where adult family homes were permitted and if this was affecting that at all. What you see there in the second note is that adult family homes are already permitted

in the following land use zones. All of them except for public institutional, the last one, they are outright permitted. So, it's all of the residential, the mixed residential, multif family, arterial residential, commercial, neighborhood commercial, one and two, transit oriented, uh, commercial, which is the station district essentially, and then the central business district all allow adult family homes already. The change that you'll see here is that uh there is specific reference now to family daycare, which is somebody doing it in their home for up to 12 children as opposed to a commercial structure that's separate from somebody's house that has 12 or more kids. That is now being expressly um mentioned as something in uh the Lake of Municipal Code regarding or regulating, excuse me, residential uses. So this is the uh table that summarizes it all. try to get this out of the way. So, the big changes here are underlined and highlighted. You'll see that now all of these different daycare as well as the use of existing buildings for daycarees are a number of more zones outright permitted. Everything that's underlined is an addition. And then you'll also see for instance in the arterial residential commercial, this middle column, it was there as a conditional use. Now it's being allowed outright. neighborhood commercial, same idea. And then you'll see in the commercial uh those areas where you've got an on-site child care facility for employees, allowing that now outright rather than conditionally. And then you'll see over to the right in this table uh nowhere in industrial is anything allowed either conditionally or a right except when it is uh the relatives of employees of the business establishment on the same site. So again that's just answering what state law requires. This is where we've added a little bit

since the last meeting under family daycare. It was allowed up through neighborhood commercial 2 and now it's being added as well in the two big station district and central business district sub area plan zones. So the schedule is tonight is this public hearing and then if you're ready you would be taking action. November 10th is when the city council would start to take this up. Their public hearing would be November 17th. And so happy to answer any other questions. Mr. Chair, thank you. Any questions from the commission? Any questions from the commission? No. All right. Mr. Larson, go ahead.

Uh could you clarify please uh M spear the uh uh industrial zone capability to uh to accommodate uh the daycare opportunity. The requirement under state law is now that if you have a site that's has an industrial use in an industrial zone and they want to have an on-site child care facility, that must be allowed with conditions. You you you it's not a permitted outright, but you can condition it.

Excellent. that that would be my my preference too for us because there could be conditions uh within an industrial zone to provide safely and uh accommodate daycare on a site. So I think that's that's healthy to be able to allow for it. Yeah. So ready for public hearing, sir. I'm sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um going back piggy back of what you say on the industry in the industrial areas

if you like sorry regarding child care in the industrial area just to piggy back um are there any are there any obligations by uh site owners to uh double up for example security or something in regards to the child care centers because we're talking about talking about area where it's safety as you say is concern it's quite a concern so I'm looking at for example our our our our industrial site here close at hand um is the property manager responsible in any way for the child care c center's welfare, safety, well-being.

I'll give you a long-winded answer, Commissioner Strata. Um, first of all, this is brand new in state law. It's a couple months old and so I'm not aware of status quo. Certainly not in Lakewood or elsewhere where you do have um allowed child care in industrial areas. There may be may well be them, but I don't I'm not aware of it in Lakewood. in terms of the conditions regarding how they would be operated, designed, protected. That's exactly what would happen in the conditional uses. That process of when an application would come in, the city would be looking to see what's on site, what's the surrounding uses, what's needed to make sure that those kids would be safe. It could operate as it should. In terms of who is responsible for running the daycare, if it's a commercial daycare facility, then the state actually licenses that and make sure it's it's following the particular rules in state law.

When I'm thinking again, the site manager, the property manager of the industrial site, he's responsible for the facilities. Generally speaking, like if you're thinking of the Lakewood Industrial Business Park, okay? Yes. So in that particular case, then if we have a child care center in that facility, he's also responsible for that facility. I think you would have to finesse that a little bit depending on if it was run by the business park or run by um one of the companies that's located within it. So if you had a a smaller business in one of the spots within the business park and they wanted it just for their own employees, you know, there would there would need to be the responsibility within that business maybe in addition to what the overall business park manager would have to do.

Okay. I guess what you're saying is that the the business itself is man is is monitored by the state. For example, in this case, the childcare business would be the facility itself is managed by by the manager, the site manager. I think it's going to be a case by case basis. And so, yeah,

I can address that knowing the Lakewood Industrial Park quite well. And that is that the site manager would have a responsibility to all the people in the park to make certain that uh safe conduct is uh is assured. I think it will also be part of the conditional use permit as to how the park would be involved with the management and safety of the facility. Uh in this case uh the the manager uh works for the ownership company and so they would in indeed be um responsible for the uh operation of the park within all of its other rules as well. So I think it's a health self-healing wound really that uh that the the provision for management and conditional use permit functions is pretty wide open uh set of criteria that one would be able to impose on the use. So I I think I feel pretty comfortable that that there would be uh enough controls within the conditional use permit function to make certain that the right thing happens. Thank you. All right,

call for public hearing. Yeah, let's go ahead and open it up for uh public hearing. And uh did did we leave this open from last time? Yes. All right. So, guess we'll just extend the reopening of this to anyone who'd like to make comment. And and Mr. Sure. There's no one here either online or in person to testify. Okay. Any final ads? All right. So, if you're ready to take action as a commission, then you would call for the vote on up or down or edit. Should we close a public hearing, please? Yes.

We'll go ahead and close the public hearing uh for for this topic and then um do I have any motion for action on this? It would be a motion to approve resolution 2025-04. Yeah, Mr. Russian made a motion and I will second the motion to approve resolution 2025-04. Thank you. All in favor? Oh, one point of clarity before we make the vote. Mr. Larson was talking about a conditional use. As it's written, it's all permitted. Are we Is it leaving it as permitted or are we changing it to conditional?

Can you can you pull it up again? So it's the place where it is conditional. Commissioner her is in the commercial I'm sorry the industrial district. Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize. I was looking at the commercial one. Yeah. So down here under industrial one and two, it is a conditional use. Apologies. Thank you. Any uh well, if we're all good, all in favor? I I All in favor? All right. No opposed. Moves forward. Go ahead and move on to the next piece of unfinished business.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a continuation from a month ago now on the conversation that you've been having uh because the city council asked you to pick up the issue of where alcohol uh production and sales could can be located in Lakewood. currently allowed in certain places, but when they looked at your recommendations and the 2025 comprehensive plan amendment packet, there was an amendment, if you'll recall, that would have made some changes and they decided that they wanted you to take a look at it and give them a little more detail and a little more direction. So, we're back um on September 17th, you had an initial conversation and we're continuing it tonight. Tonight, there is no uh hearing. There is no action anticipated. This is another opportunity for you to discuss it as much as you want. If you want an additional session or two to do so, you're absolutely welcome to. Otherwise, if you feel ready after tonight to uh take it to public hearing, we'll get that set up. So, basically, that's what I just said. Um it is at this point at council starting in January, so there's plenty of time. Uh but if you were to u need more time for some reason, we can certainly adjust their council schedule as well. So, one of the things that you had asked for was uh try to get all of this out of the way was uh examples of different types of uses that we've been talking about. And so, this was our attempt to do this. These were included in the packet provided to you. Uh but what we were trying to show in the local area was different types of alcohol sales uh locations and and uses. So, Lake City Pub here in the city would be considered a bar tavern. Alcoholic beverages are sold on site. It's not part of a larger restaurant. There is food, but it's subordinate to the sale of the alcohol.

Um, there may be a micro brewery or beer tasting or wine room and it is not a nightclub or adultoriented business. So, what you see here, exterior shots of Lake City Pub, interior shots. Um, some of you may well have been there in the past, but that's your example of a bar or tavern here in the city right now. Brew Pub is a type of eating or drinking establishment that includes the production of malt liquor. I'm not going to read these word for word. And that there's a limitation in the amount of size that it can be. um you can potentially do off- premises uh consumption sales. There are um state and federal rules regarding all of this brewer or brewery engaging in the business of manufacturing beer and malt liquor. So what you see here is in Breton, this is called Silver City Restaurant and Brewery. And so just like the name indicates, there's food as well as uh the brewery. They have a tap room. They have uh October Fest festivals. Uh you can look at the beer separately and apart from any menu. Uh and as you can see, it is intended to be something that would be open to the general public as a restaurant. A tasting room can be onsite attached to a distilleries production facility or it could be offsite where licenses may sample, serve, and sell. And uh tasting rooms have to comply with retail land use hours of operation. So this one is the Brown family vineyards. This is located in Tacoma. Uh, and what you'll see just their interior shot is it's really not set up for sitting down at a table and eating dinner, right? It it is a tasting room. Uh, this is a business that has an off-site uh production location and then they have this in town as their tasting room. I hope I don't butcher this. Mro Gianis

uh distillery is located in Northbend and it is a distillery where liquor is manufactured and then there is also a tasting room. So this is the building right here. They have a tasting room. Uh they also have um the ability for you to buy and take off site. They have their own brand. Uh and again this is really not for food. This is a tasting room. there might be something you know or derves or something but this is really again about alcohol sale. So currently the uh alcohol sales and use are zoned and allowed as follows. Across the top here you'll see all of our different land use zones. Down the left hand side you'll see the type of use. So currently breweries in neighborhood commercial and the station district and downtown is conditional uses. Commercial one allows it. Commercial 2 is again conditional. Industrial business park is allowed outright. And then MF31, just so everybody knows, that is a weird little part of the station district sub area that's actually zone MF3, but it is regulated differently than MF3 in the rest of the city. Small craft distilleries. You can see this. So again, I'm not going to read this outright, but you see that starting in neighborhood commercial one to more intense, it's allowed outright. wine production facilities allowed outright in an industrial business park and industrial one. And then when you get down into uh the different uses classified under eating and drinking bar tavern at this point not in the station district, not in the neighborhood commercial zones, but in uh downtown conditionally and then the commercial zones outright. Breweries and tasting rooms have the same set of zones where they are allowed outright. So that's the status quo. What's being recommended to amend this is first of all there's a little shuffling around of where this would be classified in the table. There's the structure of the use is not changing.

It's just how it's um tracked in the code. But what you see here is a small craft distillery being allowed. Uh and the reason this is underlined, I should clarify this is allowed now. We're just moving it into agriculture because that's where the type of use it's considered. This is not a new thing. It is currently allowed in residential areas. So if for whatever reason there was a concern about that, absolutely that's something that could be amended. But as of now you have small craft distilleries in the R2, three, four, and mixed residential one zones. And then both of them permitted outright. Neighborhood commercial two up through commercial three and then industrial one. Breweries and micro breweries are at the same uh level of allowance in the various zones. So again this multif family 3 within the station district and then neighborhood commercial two is conditional as it sits in the two big sub areas they are conditional and then in commercial one it's permitted outright commercial two it's conditional IBP which is the business park and then industrial one is u permitted outright eating and drinking establishments. So this is where we get into the bars, the breweries and the tasting rooms. Again, you can see this the one change that would be here is to allow bars or taverns conditionally in the station district as they are right now in the downtown. So, this is as it sits now. This is not to say you because of course you can make edits to this, but this is what's uh in front of you tonight. And this is a version of what the council had earlier, but it has been changed a little bit since they saw it. really big or it's a big table but tiny print in order to fit. But the point here I was trying to provide is this is a table that shows you all of the zones again across the top and then it shows you both the um alcohol use and sales but it also shows you where the

daycarees are because you were asking about that last time. And so where it is blue on the chart is where within a particular zone you would have both some kind of alcohol sale or production and also some kind of daycare. So I'll just walk right down R2. Small craft distillery at this point is permitted, but so is daycarees, preschool and nursery school, babysitting and family daycare. So all in R2, any of those could all be there. And then the same goes across the row. Um, obviously there's more overlap when you start to get into the commercial and industrial zones, but those are the parts of our table that would have both of those uses being allowed. And so I know that uh commissioners had concern about if you did have those both in a zone together, how would that work? So just some very um highlevel ideas and um food for thought perhaps for you to take and run with. um some ideas about the fact that for the most part alcohol production sales use and daycarees, unless it's a 24-hour daycare, have different core operating hours that really necess wouldn't necessarily interfere with each other. However, if they're next to each other and they're both open at the same time, looking at buffers um between the 24 hours or if there were other ones as well and then the sales, if it's an alcohol production place, maybe less of a concern with the buffers since that's really going to be an internal business. And then any outdoor play areas for child care being screened or abstracted from any uh adjacent or near alcohol sales in the in outdoor spaces. So, those were just some ideas of the types of restrictions that you might consider for um if the two are in the same zone. And so, I I guess I can leave it on any one of these slides or just take this down. And if you want to ask questions, we in addition to myself have Angie

Silva and Jeffrey Mack here in the uh room, we also have Andrea Bell online. So, I can call up one of three friends as needed. Thank you. Thank you very much. Good explanation. Go ahead. Do we have a number for how many 24-hour childc care facilities there are in Lakewood? I do not. I don't know that we have any, but this is just a theory and what you might want to anticipate. That'd be a helpful number for for me as we're talking about providing restrictions based upon their core operating hours. Yeah.

A few thoughts. Uh first is how if you're going to have a daycare and a micro brewery or a wine uh dist not distillery what a winery uh located approximate to a daycare uh or a daycare located approximate to a winery whoever comes first. What do you do? H how do we manage that? because u on the face of it those are conflicting uses and uh and yet there might be circumstances whereby they could be compatible uses. I can't think of any write off but I think one needs to allow for that. So I wonder whether in in that circumstance that the uses be a conditional use so that it can be reviewed by the city and determined to be uh good for all concerned to do that. I don't know if that's the solution or not, but to me it's a dilemma if we're going to allow them proximate to each other and and uh who comes first, daycare or business? And and uh I think hands would go up and say daycare comes first, but that's my gut. But u uh so so so that's a concern. Uh I would also uh say that uh uh wherever you can do a micro brewery should be able to do a winery. They're just different spirit but different uh but but similar function in terms of operation and and people that they draw and and and all. Uh so I think that uh that that might be one one change that I would suggest. uh then I would also say that uh there's we could pick this uh thing to death and uh some some places we won't know the right answer until we see how it how the law

develops. But I think staff has done a wonderful job in terms of thinking this through and from and get getting a dang good start on it and uh I'd like to see it go forward because it's clarity for anybody wanting to do business and and operate a daycare within the city of Lakewood. I think those are healthy things. Yeah. Thank you,

Mr. Chair. Question. Uh, Miss Spear, let's say tonight we we uh recommend and approve what's in front of us right now with no changes or or any of the changes that we've discussed and we get we fast forward, we get into implementation, what what is our mechanism for making adjustments at that point? If we if we find a pinch point that we haven't identified here and we we find it in the real world, how quickly can we respond to that with an adjustment? um it can be part of the annual comprehensive plan and development regulation package or it can be faster on its own depending on the urgency and if it's really a serious issue the council could consider emergency action if there was something that needed to be taken care of even before holding a public hearing. So there's kind of three uh levels of being able to address it.

Thank you. And um if I could, Mr. Chair, just in response to Commissioner Larson's comments, just a reminder that the child care stuff is mandated as a permitted use. So, we can't conditionally allow those if there is already a um alcohol sale or production use for whatever reason somehow next door within a certain distance. You can't say, "Okay, child care, now you got to be a conditional use." or if you have um them nearby. The one that would have to be the conditional one would be the alcohol operations.

Yeah, we could we could say any after whatever January 1 of 26 and start there, right? could say, I'm sorry, I missed the foot. As far as if you had a buffer zone 150 ft or something like that, that it would be effective as of this date. And so any existing businesses beyond that be kind of grandfathered in and and able to stay with that. it would show up as an exemption, which is always no fun, but you know,

yeah, there's there's ways that you can caveat the regulatory uh controls as well as the zoning to say before a certain date you can do X, be after a certain date, you have to do Y. Um, but just a reminder that there's still the need to have the public hearing on all of this as well. So, we're not ready for action this evening. No action proposed yet. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. um regarding the buffer zone. So there is no buffer zone at this time. Correct. So it's um who would establish we would recommend and and it goes through y'all and through the council.

Um the position we're in right now is actually you are chewing on this and thinking about it. I'm taking down notes and direction from you as to what you think would be a good idea. And then what we need to do is staff is come back to you with draft regulations as well as the zoning changes you see in front of you. So there would need to be some time for us to be able to draft what are the conditions, what are the restrictions on how these two in particular but other different uses in these various zones interact uh with each other and if buffers are the answer great. If it's something else we would have to have that too.

To piggyback again on Mr. Larson's comments. So both from different perspectives are important businesses for child care and so is

the other side the alcohol side. So what comes first? Wouldn't it just determine who got there first? If for example a uh a a a permit was requ was asked for for a pub and then a child care center came in later and wanted adjacent they could not because of the established buffer the established they would have to they couldn't go in permitted but because of the buffer they couldn't be next door so whoever comes first that the way it works

that's pretty much how land use generally works if there's a condition in a code where there has to be in this a buffer distance between certain businesses of whatever type. If someone's already there, the new one coming in has to take that into account and making the decision of where to locate. Um the other thing though is with um the conditions that you might put on all of this stuff. Some the distillery might be treated differently than a bar or tavern, but they're both considered alcohol, excuse me, sale or production, but the type of one could also maybe affect the regulations for it.

Yeah, good points all around so far. Any other thoughts on this before Sherman? Go ahead. Yeah. So I am kind of dissecting looking at this and kind of dissecting it in two bites of the apple here. So um if I'm kind of analyzing this the first bite of the apple I think in front of us and then in front of council is the issue of do first of all do we do we as a planning commission agree on the permitted uses as being proposed in in in their own right. Correct. As they stand in this table,

setting aside the presence of child care for a moment. And by and large, um I think from what I've heard at meetings and conversations so far, um I mean, we I think I think we're at a ripe moment to open to allow this to go to public hearing or open the public hearing. Um my one thought is um or question actually is I noticed that in sorry if you could go back to the other table. Yeah.

Um nightclubs appear to be conditional in the neighborhood commercial zone in NC2 and that kind of strikes me a little interesting. Um, when I think of a nightclub and just knowing the nightclubs that I've been to here in Lakewood, um, has that always been the case or is that that's not proposed? That's

that is the current code. So, we that I've heard we haven't heard any feedback from the community about that, but I I guess I am a little um I I didn't realize that we allowed nightclubs in the neighbor commercial zones because I think of neighborhood commercial pretty close to residential and trying to keep that feel of keeping um essential services and shops uh closest to residents, especially when our neighborhood commercial zones are um you know tend to contain a lot of apartments. So probably more essential services seems um for that. But so that's just a thought. That's not a a proposal or request. That's just my thought here. Um and then when it comes to brewery and micro breweries, I notice that they are permitted in C1 but conditional in C2. And I'm I don't know the nuances between C1

and I can't answer that very well for you off the top of my head, Miss Tbo, but it's um the nature of the two zones are slightly different. And so I can certainly provide that to you in the interim between now and your next meeting. That is current for both of those uses that it's permitted outright in C1 and conditional in C2. Um, and I'll just have to do some followup.

Then, um, out of curiosity, uh, business like, let's say, a hookah lounge, uh, because I feel like I've been seeing those pop up in areas like South Tacoma Way, for example, outside of Lakewood. Uh, but what was what is what would that be considered? Would a hookah lounge, for example, be considered like nightclub or a bar, or does it just depend on what's proposed in their um business application.

Well, first of all, uh Lakewood prohibits expressly and explicitly multiple times no marijuana anything in the city. So, if what we're talking about is a hookah lounge, I don't know if that would be allowed without it being considered one of those uses that's explicitly prohibited. But a tobacco hookah Okay. Okay. Um ask your question again then. I'm sorry. So would a tobacco hookah lounge what would we generally consider that type of use? That would probably fall under commercial and industrial and it wouldn't be any of these alcohol uses. It would be something else. Sure.

And the second bite of the apple being the proximity to to child care. Um, I mean, I think from what I've heard, I and I I do agree with to some degree that, you know, child care during the day or child care uses have a very different time of oper peak operating hour relative to operating hour of a bar. So with the proposed um buffers and screening

don't know enough reasons yet why that couldn't but respectful of uh Mr. Home's question as well. And it would be good to know if there are 24-hour childcare. Sure. Over like 24-hour fitness that perhaps um which I do think also regular I think they do offer like hours in there. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so those were just comments that I wanted to put forward to you.

And if the commission I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, if the commission is ready to proceed to the next step, then what we would bring back to you at the next meeting would be proposed regulations in addition to the zoning that you see tonight. Any other thoughts and comments? Mr. I I just like to to support that uh idea of having different operating hours and and how each business is to operate uh should be part and parcel of the conditional use analysis because uh yeah those are drilled down doing the getting the the the fairness established. Mr. Strat,

thank you Mr. Chair. Uh but they do overlap. Maybe not at peak. For example, we we have here listed the the Lake City Club that opens at 11:00 in the morning. A peak may be at four or five or six, but they open 11 o'clock in the morning. And daycare is up until at least 5:00. So we do are talking about overlap. Yeah. And and that's good business. That's good business to be open 11 o'clock in the morning for you know for them. Yeah. It's also good business for for child care. So that has to be considered my perspective. Yeah.

And also I have one other question. Spirit. Do we happen to know how many incident calls we've had for Lake City Pub for example? I do not but I can certainly get that. Be in a residential area. Yeah. So that would be interesting to know uh because we're talking about the same type of a of establishment going in other areas where it's close to residential. So I'd like to know that. Yes, we can we can get that for you. Thank you.

Hi Jeffrey Remack, director of planning public works. Listening to what we're talking about today, there are some questions that are still outstanding that I'd like to maybe offer the conversation of regarding the separation and the buffer and how we separate those. maybe looking at the other jurisdictions and coming back with a more thorough layout of like other jurisdictions offer this and what the separations are. I bring that up because I come from another jurisdiction previously. There was not a separation or requirement other than for marijuana facilities which is required by RCW and the incident calls were not high surrounding breweries and what they typically look at. There is a difference in operation of what they really are looking for. Right. So the one place in Lakewood that I could think that I would see you might see them side by side would actually be in town center, right? If someone came with a child care drop off center that was there and then someone had a tasting room. They really don't overlap in what they're looking at and the type of services that they're at. So what I would like to do is come back with a better explanation of these are the other jurisdictions and what we've seen because some of the things like 150 foot or a 300 foot buffer and setback they're very difficult to actually manage. There is nothing that is going to flag in a GIS system and say there is something over here. So you end up in a scenario of when those do come up having to send a planner or an inspector to go drive by and then look around everything that's around. Is there a child care facility? And there's home daycarees that exist. They're licensed within the state, within the city, um that you might not know until you pull the records for it. So, I'd very much like to go ahead and pull like the responses just like you asked for, Mr. Estrada, and show is there really a need for what we're looking at for the separation. I did do a quick search while we were sitting to look for a 24-hour care facility. I did find one that exists in the city of Lakewood for Monday through Friday and then there's like five in Tacoma, but we'll do a more exhaustive search to kind of look at that as well. But I feel that there's many things that we're looking at that I

appreciate the comments from the council, but I think we need to get you more background information surrounding those. It's for a more informed decision before we really move forward. It's your choice of course, but that would just be my recommendation. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Um I just had one comment. Um, if you've ever had to have a lot of child care and experience, many of the people in the health professions do use 24-hour care and they frequently do have overnight and we have large medical facilities around here. So, I think that finding that information would be very helpful if we can and that mitigating it in some way I think is very reasonable. A lot of your suggestions I think would be good for those people as well. So that if we could accommodate the child care centers and have whether they're buffers, whatever you want to call them, ways other cities do to provide a safe environment for those kids 247 would be very helpful because many of our people do work that and many people in the military work very long hours, very odd hours. And so there's going to be a need for roundthe-clock child care. And you can't predict the the bar services. If they're in business, they're going to be in business and they should be able to have reasonable hours. And so we I think need to just look at how to do that. Well,

no. And I I agree 100%. Um I'll be honest. I've raised five kids so far, been in the military for 30 years, and my child care was never a child care center for overnight care because they really don't exist. That's so that's why I would like to gather the information and talk to it. There are home care facilities that definitely do, right? So some of like the neighborhood commercial zones, things of that nature, they could be adjacent to residential where there could be a home care, things of that nature. But um I'm speaking for him really from my experience of like having done both sides of those and where we're at that it was home care I really had to find to get somebody who would watch overnight. Thank you.

Yeah, thanks for that. Um yeah, I I personally am um uh interested in just getting re more recommendations and more information so we could so we can ultimately make the best decision. Uh I am in favor of both of these getting the maximum amount of use and flexibility and promoting uh both businesses. One is a need and and one um is a want, but I think that they both have a place here in commerce. So I I would say let's gather a little more information as we heard from Jeff. And um any other thoughts or Yeah, we're good with that. All right. Well, let's let's do that. I guess that the the specifics that I've heard so far surrounded the hours surrounded the daycare hours as well, the overlap and potentiality of buffers and you know what other jurisdictions are doing as as it comes to solving this issue. um trying to it, you know, and um Commissioner Wallace, you know, stated it really well. It's really just about how do we create a safe environment for the kids while they're there without putting too many handcuffs on everyone else.

So, uh we'll go ahead and move on from that one and uh hit new business. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, this is where we're going to have um I'm going to step aside and Angie Silva is going to step up to provide the first introduction to what is going to be a large or it is a large project. It's ongoing now uh regarding an update to title 12, which you and I don't speak about very much, but it's the public works side of the house. So, I'll turn it over to her.

Thank you, Tiffany. Mr. Chair, commissioners, thank you for the opportunity to be here tonight. Tonight's briefing introduces, as Tiffany mentioned, the comprehensive update to title 12 as well as our engineering standards manual or for short I'll refer to the ESM. This is again an introductory session. No formal action is scheduled for tonight. Just an orientation on the scope, schedule, and key compliance findings thus far. Thank you. So, tonight we'll cut Did I move? Oh, are you controlling it?

I am. Yeah. Okay, just tell me when. Thought it was me. I apologize. So, tonight we'll cover um update goals, why the update is necessary, an overview, why title 12 and the ESM regulate, uh scope and schedule, the process and timeline for the updates, and again, initial compliance review and some of those key findings and recommendations, as well as next steps, what will be coming to this body late this year, but also how that will be transferred over for city council review in quarter 1 of 2026. So, Title 12 uh governs public works, rights away, storm water, and utilities. It's essentially the foundation for the city's infrastructure uh regulations. The ESM in particular translates those code requirements or procedural requirements into technical design and construction standards. So, they work in tandem together. Both of those elements safeguard the public's health, safety, and welfare. The last full title update was in 2009 and the ESM had a very limited update in 2021. So it is ripe for kind of review and update as necessary. Um in addition to that um to support that effort, council approved a contract to help support um those code updates and those design updates through Keller Associates. And again, our goal overall is to improve the consistency with state, federal, and local requirements, but also improve and and enhance predictability, efficiency, and functionality of those titles and that design manual for the public, applicant, and staff. So, there's multiple objectives in addition to being in complian with a whole bunch of other rules. Next slide, please. So, kind of the schedule here. In August, we kicked off that project and dove very quickly into the compliance review which is going to be the focus of tonight and we're in the midst of

preparing draft revisions for this body. So in terms of kind of schedule for this uh for the planning commission tonight again is the introduction. We are looking to do a study session in early November on the draft code amendments that we're working on right now and then later in the month right before the Thanksgiving holiday we're hoping to have a public hearing and then with action before and early December. Moving into the new year, um we hope to have a study session on the planning commission's recommendations before council, then ending up with their public hearing and action and adoption via ordinance in the February of that year. [Music] So part of the compliance review, it was kind of a two-pronged approach. One was a holistic consistency check with adopted standards and plans at all levels, but also kind of phase two taking a look at um technical require requirements you see in neighboring jurisdictions. So a peer review what do you see in the standards in University Place, Tacoma, Tacoma, Silicon Palop, F you name it and other as well as Pierce County. Next slide please. So kind of diving a little bit more specific in topic areas as part of that uh compliance review as it relates to streets, rightway and traffic. Um kind of that review found gaps in cross referencing and outdating outdated standards both in title 12 and the ESM. So some of those recommendations included cross referencing but also updating street template detail sidewalk widths in ADA standards. In addition to that uh recommendations to improve clarity for multimmodal uh design consistency not only for vehicles but bikes and pedestrians as well. And again that goal of those recommendations again are intended to make standards more consistent, complete and easier for applicants and staff and the public to

apply. Next, thank you. So, as it relates to storm water, so Lakewood relies very heavily on underground injection control systems with over 1,700 registered with the Washington State Department of Ecology. Some of the recommendations that came out of that compliance review include exemptions for roof runoff and infiltration for single family and duplex housing. Add design guidance for linear bio retention in the rights away. and then clarify coordination amongst the various zoning tiles as it relates to requirements for low impact development landscaping and impervious surface limits. These updates are intended to ensure compliance with ecologies uh phase 2 storm water permit and modern storm water practices. Next slide, please. On the topic of sewer, again, Lakewood is not a sewer utility. We rely on Pierce County for providing that service, but we do have a chapter to guide that when it comes to mandatory mandatory connections, etc. Our current chapter is outdated and lacks technical clarity. So some of those recommendations include consider relocating that information into title 13 which is public utilities for better organization and then adding detailed sewer designs consistent with Pierce County uh for regional consistency. In addition to that, some of the recommendations include more design details as it relates to pipe size, slope material cleanouts, valves uh se uh septic decommissioning procedures and the like. Next slide. And then last again some general observations related to that review. numerous conflicts between our zoning uh series title series, the title 12 and our ESM better needed quarter coordinative framework as it relates to the permitting procedures enforcement of those requirements. And I think I've mentioned this before incorporating LI

best practices. Both our subbury plans for the Lakewood Town Center, excuse me, Lakewood Station District and the downtown center require LI to be implemented, but how that relates to the standards in which it would be reviewed under those permits. And then last but not least, again, improved usability. So clearer checklists, better design details for those project under engineers and clear what are plan requirements to move that project forward. Next slide, please. So, kind of next steps, we are, as mentioned before, we are in the midst of drafting a whole bunch of code amendments that we hope to bring back to you at your next meeting. Um, part of that review will also include environmental review under the state environmental policy act to make a threshold determination in the staff report. So, you can noodle on as it relates to consistency, but also some initial findings from that. Again, the goal of this overall update is to bring cohesive modernized framework um for consideration as part of our engineering technical standards. And we'll continue to coordinate across all of our various review divisions, whether you're building planning um or our legal council to make sure we're in compliance, but we're working and coordinating in a manner as part of an integrated review process when it comes to public or private projects. And with that, that is my high-level overview. I'm happy to go over almost 300 pages page by page, but I think I was already warned before the meeting. No, thank you.

We we already got a copy of that, so it was very riveting and I appreciate you sending that over. Uh I did not finish my whole read on it yet. I realized about 50 pages in that there was 180 more and uh so I put it aside and figured I'd wait to hear the highlevel version tonight. Um, riveting is a new definition of of that uh that read. I I appreciate that, sir. I I was uh wondering if I I saw it was a red line version. Um I was curious how difficult it would be to just put all the modified pages into one document. Does that make sense? Yep.

So that it would be easier to go to what the meat of it is. Um, I hope you don't lose the context, but if we have both of them next to each other, if you lose it, you can just go over and look. So, for someone like me who was taking a long time scrolling through um might that might be one other tool. If you don't mind sending that, that would be great. Absolutely. And again, part of the draft amendments will you be see you'll be see redline strikeout changes. So, you'll see existing code, what is pro uh proposed to be removed or added to that. So hopefully that'll be an easier read. Yeah, this was more of a technical review line by line in those documents. H we might want to consider this or this conflicts with X Y and Z.

Do do and one one other question as I was going through it. Um what I've heard from the planning commission for the last whatever year or so is how do we make this easier? How do we make this simpler? How do we make this so that the uh average business can get open faster and you know process this information? Do you think this helps to me? It seems like a step in the right direction. Is there anything in there that you feel would be the opposite of that? I think the overarching goal as shared before is to make the improve for functionality, ease of use, but we have to keep in mind these are technical engineering requirements. So requirements in here often trigger a licensed professional engineer in the state of Washington. So first and foremost, you have that higher level. What we're trying to do as it relates to permitting, whether you're talking about a rideway permit or a storm water development permit, is really clearly define when those permits are required and what is exempt. So first and foremost in the site development permit in current code, it design it's drafted in a way or prepared in a way that just lists a whole bunch of exemptions. So it's very as a layman I'm not an engineer. I have two professionals here to provide that technical expertise if those questions do come up but it's very difficult to go when is a site development permit triggered or not. So that's a hard conversation to have in plain language. Right? Second piece of that the minimum threshold triggers are really low. So for example one of those threshold triggers for a site development permit in our code today is 25 uh uh cubic yards of dirt. If you move 25 cubic yards of dirt, you automatically trigger an professional engineer permit

that is very low if you do a cross comparison of other jurisdictions. So part of that compliance review, that second phase was looking at what other places are doing and what are those triggers for that higher level engineered permit or not. So that's what we're factoring in right now as part of our drafting of the code. And I hope when we come back to you, we'll go over in more detail what is substantive, what's housekeeping, and what's more clarification uh or ease of use reorganization type of proposed amendments. Perfect. Thank you, Mr. Larson.

With regard to storm water, uh we've been handed down by the state and federal government uh criteria to manage our storm water. and uh 2011. Every community member I've talked to is scratching their heads and saying this doesn't make sense in terms of logical uh application what we see what are the trends with weather uh and a number of other factors. Is there any manner in which you could get uh at least a formal explanation as to the science by which these criteria were developed so that the public public can understand it because uh if it's fact it really is evasive in terms of its logic. Um, you know, I live on Clover Creek and it's gotten drier and drier and drier for the last six or seven years. Another month every year it's only flows like three months a year now. Four maybe. And and we're not alone in Lakewood. I was in eastern Washington recently and a a creek that I grew up on catching trout in no longer exists. It's bare rock. And so this is more than just a Lakewood trend or a Lakewood difference of opinion in terms of man managing storm water. And uh we really like to see if through this process we can get to the bottom of it so that the public knows at least and understands uh what uh what's going on. Is there is that possible within the scope of what you're doing? I'm going to to discuss this at a high level kind of the triggers why we have these storm water requirements now the public can get involved as they get crafted at the state level and then I'm going to look at Mr. Weston Otter city

engineer or department director Jeff Remack for kind of what we can do locally and what we see in conditions when it comes to storm water infiltration within the city. So storm water was that a yes

I'm going to get to that because it's nuance when it comes to federal and state uh laws. So for example, our storm water control and pollution prevention comes from the federal clean water act that is then translated to all states in the union in which the department of ecology is tasked to administer those cleanup water act provisions and they've set forth state law and agency rulemaking on what those minimum standards are for western Washington. They create design manuals for storm water in addition to outline the provisions of what our storm water permit is. the minimum standards specifically for storm water. Sir, city of Lakewood currently in what we are proposing to continue when it comes to the storm water manual, we use the minimum standard, the ecology manual, unlike Pierce County or some other surrounding jurisdictions, they have a hybrid or technically equivalent equal to ecologies manual. So they create their own manual and known standards that still meet ecology standards but go above and beyond in many cases. So here we meet the minimum standards of the state law and don't go above with that gentleman who would like to Mr. Larson did that I guess I I should I mean that's been my experience too. It's a state most of it is state regulated and that and the state does a very very good job at putting regulations there.

So one of the easiest ways to put it is the the counties are broken into two phases. You're either a large county like King where you're going to go ahead and be a phase one or you're a phase two. And they go ahead and say thou shalt do this and this is our manual for Western Washington. That manual is manual is written to encompass western Washington and assuming the high isopluvial rainfall totals that we have in Washington. It is written in a manner that is like this is good for all. It does not always though admittedly apply to every area where you look at specifically in Lakewood. The reason that people would be frustrated in what they're seeing at is that the infiltration rates are so high here that water just goes away. Now, that's a double-edged sword because water goes away so quickly that it doesn't have the opportunity to get water quality treatment typically before it hits the water aquifer potentially, not always the aquifer, but hits inflow. Inner flow is where it travels horizontally through the land and then comes out any of your creeks or in your lakes that you're looking at. So, honestly, for the city of Lakewood, usually it's a very straightforward. We're looking at what we're talking about with like can you do a civ analysis which is they shake it basically like we all used to sift sand and say hey this is above a 200 civ if you have 87% above this then this is your infiltration rate right it's very cookbook style fashion and what we're looking to try and go to that we've not done yet today but there are limits to that because if the water goes away too fast and it's say it's runoff from your driveway well the concerns are does the oil go ahead and get down onto the earth are we putting it back into our drink potentially into our drinking water, things of that nature. Aquafers are very deep when we look at it. So, typically, unless you're doing some version of a chemical treatment, industrial building, things of that nature, those are specifically called out for treatment and mitigation, and then we do hydro, you know, modeling, hydrarology modeling, things of that nature to see where those go. But for what we're looking at, we're looking to make it as cookbook fashion as we can while still

being in the confines of the code. there is not uh an exemption that we can apply for really to go to less or below that. They say this is the bare minimum. So, we're holding to that but trying to make it as simple as we can like follow the bouncing ball. Um we've done that previously in other jurisdictions. It's not I'm going to say it's not always simple, right? Like when they look at it that was because we dealt with glacial till. I have like two spots in all of Lakewood so far that I've had issue with. So, I'm very excited to go ahead and do a cookbook method that's like, "Hey, you have this. it's this size. Okay, here you go. Also, the change that they made is they used to use rainfall totals based on the area that you're at. And so, they would look at that and they'd say, "This is a two-year rainfall event. This is a 50-year rainfall event. This is a 100red-year rainfall event." That went away. They now use a 100red-year rain gauge as they've gone and collected it. So, we use that typical would be like the quiline rain gauge and then they give you a percentage based off of that of how much your area actually does when we do modeling. So, we can work on that to make it easier, but in the long run, we're we're at the minimum. We've just got a lot of requirements that come with it. So, that it's not what you want to hear, but it's I'm just giving you the reality of really what we're looking at. Can definitely do a statement or any of the talk to the neighborhoods about why we look at what we look at, what we're trying to protection. There is a big uh contingent right now that is interested in what's happening with the water, why it's going away. The reality behind that is much of that is precipitation. So when we look at the lakes, if you look at like Waj Hop, American Lake, American Lake has like one line into it, what you're looking at has one outfall on where you're at. So for the most part, it's precipitation and things that happen to be in the surrounding area immediately around it that have overland flow that feed to the lake that that go ahead and set that up. Same with Wah. When you look at it, WAP is like a hot button, so I should probably shouldn't have said the name because I'll probably get text tomorrow. But when we look at it right now, it's already a foot lower than it was last year based on

precipitation. So when we look at that, we have to look at the rainfall totals to look at all of the inputs and really what's driving it. And we have been low for years in terms of rainfall and precipitation. The benefit to this, the requirement is that we look at low impact development. Infiltration, which is much of what we do, is considered low impact development. So that's putting water back into the aquifer, back into the ground. Water is a resource, right, for reuse and potential future use and subsidy of what we do when it comes to the lands and the plants and everything around us. So that's the bonus that we look at. The precipitation is the biggest thing I've been seeing why we have a shortfall when it comes to the creeks. Probably really long and I talked for a while. Sorry. Yep.

Any questions? Any more questions there? I can put the engineer on. on TV. Uh my my only question was uh is that can we get this information disseminated to the public so the public understands because I don't think that uh we do and just just wonder if there's a medium available to uh get that done because it'll make life a lot easier for a lot of people I think if uh people are just knowledgeable.

Yeah. So, we're looking at communication. We move forward with this. You've seen in the stages of where we're at. Really, I kind of always used to call it the traveling road show. So, I would do a traveling road show when there was a storm water manual update, like, hey, here's what we're doing. We have the neighborhood groups to go to. We have communication blasts that we can do um through the communications department. So, we'll work on those. I appreciate that feedback. Thank you. Thank you very much. I think we got one. We did have a follow-up question. I think this one's for Angie. Miss Silva, sorry. You can call me Angie. It's okay.

Well, uh, Angie and, uh, and Jeff, uh, and Weston, thank you very much. I I first kudos to, um, taking this on because I know that how much of a bear this pro type of process can be to update your, um, your standards. Um, so good job. And also the memo, the Keller me, the Keller memo in our packet I thought was very well done and as you miss as you were speaking I was able to follow along and that really helped provide some context. So um well done to them too. Uh my question is um you know this is a lot and and certainly in the matrix you know staff has identified a lot of things. Um, and in my view, like these are all really good identifications, too. But because it's a lot, how how much of this matrix do you think that you'll realistically be able to uh to

I think those are actively being crafted right now. So, we do have again part of it is hiring the consultant to assist in this work. If this was an internal lift, the schedule before you would be much longer as we have to juggle many other requirements including doing um engineering review as part of our required permits and providing customer service when it comes to storm water questions. But we have supplemented that with consultant services. And I do believe even the staff I areas that like it would be very helpful to have clarification because this question comes up at the front counter or during permit review to provide that predictability to people. I believe that can be accomplished as part of supplementary services by the Keller contract.

Okay. And then um I guess just from a very you know skimming level because there was a lot to look through here. just um my feedback and comments, things that stuck out for me or caught my eye um the comments uh like 30 through 32 related to TMF, which I'm guessing may stand for traffic mitigation fee.

That is correct. So, I believe is part of the update to the comprehensive plan that this body went through many many meetings to get through in 2024. the TMF policy which is related to the downtown plan action EIS. It is not what is considered an impact fee that's regulated under state law differently. It's part of a SEPA mitigation trigger. Um that is forecasted right now. It's a standalone department policy. One of the areas for ease of implementation is to codify that so that's accessible to the public on the standards in which we would review and that certain properties and certain uses or change of uses in the downtown area may trigger a TMF review and a fee associated with that. But right now that's an internal department policy. We want to be transparent about that.

My my comment is please please address that. Y

because um if we're if we're going into a future of 83,000 in 20 years or more uh and we're ready and we're trying to prepare ourselves to absorb growth um you know we have policies that are responsible to um how we are acts as a result of that growth. So I just want to say that and then also driveway st this is just okay so now minutia two minutia things driveway standards uh thank you for catching that and please look at that because the spacing of driveways in Lakewood you know I I think we um suffer but in a way we we fall consequence to uh so many old commercial developments that haven't been renovated and or that haven't been um renovated in so long that we live with those existing driveways and like particularly the Chick-fil-A uh veterans bank driveway, right? So, um plea please take a look at that and thank you for doing that. And then another minutia item um but I think is important is I don't know if I'll call it light pole standards or signal bridge but the idea that we put these signal what uh Mr. Remac your predecessor what we call signal bridges. We put these signal bridges at these major intersections. I suspect and I presume because of things that have to do with limited right away to put in new poles or relocate utilities and cost of the the the snowball effects of of dealing with those things. And so perhaps I can see, sure, maybe it's easier to put in a signal bridge, but

those signal bridges have visual impacts in in the community. And unfortunately, I don't even think we get to reap the benefit of being able to do um visually aesthetic like during the holidays to um enliven the community, you know, that that Gravaly Lake and Bridgeport Way is is right next to our Festival Street, our Colonial Center, which we're trying to upgrade. And um you know, it'd be nice to be able to do with that and during the holidays for example to to some effect so that it doesn't feel like we live in a railroad town. Um so so I I would just say you know please please

um um please get into the weeds on your light pole standards and if we're really going to adopt these signal bridges. Personally I'm not a fan but I understand why we've done what we've done. Um, and so I just I just want to leave that there.

Thank Thank you for that feedback. Um, I'll open the floor for the gentleman if they want to address the driveway standards or the light pole uh signal bridge. But on the TMF, we need to keep in mind that the TMF is defined by the downtown plan action EIS. What you're going to see in the proposal is to be consistent with the downtown plan action EIS. So major substantive changes to how that mitigation method is calculated or the fee that it is calculated or those policy parameters, we have to be very mindful if we make changes to that that triggers an EIS update which is not necessarily part of the scope of work. So just keep that in mind as we go through the draft code and how a future update to the downtown sub area plan would be evaluating that as well. Thank you very much, Miss Silva or Angie.

I appreciate that. Uh, let's see. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. First, I think I appreciate

your mic for the 87 comments you guys made regarding this uh this report. And I uh so thank you all for for that uh appreciate that question regarding frontage improvements section works. Um, ADUs ADU is considered a newction yet requires improvements but not AD. Is that correct?

Let me clarify. We had a chat before this meeting and I was able to look a little bit more deeper into the code itself. So, as this body recalls, this body in the zoning code made a lot of changes to the ADU standards based upon state law that also dictated how many ADUs you can uh fit on a particular lot as well as how many parking stalls you can require and also the proximity of transit and how that relates to parking stall stalls, the maximum uh square footage of that as well. When it comes to frontage standards, that state law allowed local discretion and whether that would be required or not. Our current code triggers frontage improvements if a proposed development triggers 13 more trips generation uh related to that frontage improvement is defined by the roadway classification. So if I'm on a collector, I build this. If I'm at an arterial, I build this. We have interpreted that for ADUs that ADUs whether you're attached or detached would trigger six um trips generation. So if you had a little two or more essentially under the current code you would have to tr it would trigger um frontage improvements under the current

peak hour. Is that what I'm sorry sir. When you're talking about trips, are you talking peak hour or average daily trips used by the international daily trip generated? Okay. Six. Six for an ADU.

Six for an ADU. And one thing to keep in mind as we look when we look at trip generation. I'm going to look to the gentleman back here. Uh to correct me on techni technical. So we use the international traffic engineers manual. The current version. If you look at that, it doesn't define attached or detached ADUs. It's a single family. it has affordable housing etc. and it ranges from a whole bunch of different trip generation. What we did is did a collective peer review of other jurisdictions and what they assume is part of traffic modeling. So we looked at Tacoma, we looked at Seattle, we even looked at rent and what are you all using in your model and the average was four to six trips per ADU. So we assumed here in Lakewood for the calculation the trigger for frontage improvements it would be six whether you're an attached or detached structure

anything too that begets the question what will it take to get the uh ADU uh criteria lowered to 12 that would mean that anything more than one unit would require uh applicable code And that would seem to me be uh reasonable to achieve and not have ADUs unduly impact the neighborhoods uh that uh they they're imposed into and just a thought is is there there chance that that criterion could be uh adjusted?

It's something we can definitely discuss and consider. I would also throw in for discussion purposes, the intent of the state law changes for ADU is about affordable housing. So the more and more you layer on site development requirements, etc., which includes frontage improvements, which can be costly depending how long that frontage is, adds to the overall cost affordability. Adus are also intended to house multi-generational families. You know, I thought about it for my mom when she needed to downsize. It's supposed to be a more co a cheaper cost of living um for a variety of different reasons. So that's what I would throw in for the discussion. If one ADU would trip sidewalk improvements, for example,

yeah, Mr. Lenho, if I may, am I right in thinking that we can't require according to state law, we can't require anything additional for an ADU that we wouldn't require for a a main home? Is that right? We were, it's my understanding the state was very concerned that jurisdictions were going to start laying on codes because they didn't want to allow this. So I think they put in certain prohibitions, right? Is saying you can't require these extra things. Correct. Yeah. Primary dwelling. Yeah. You cannot put all these overlays and additional restrictions and all these things which effectively would stop people from building them. Correct. But that same state law also when it came to driveways, frontage, infrastructure, it did allow some local discretion related to that. So part of this is

because they would allow that for the main home, right? One has one place for the other. Correct. So yeah. Now, if we're talking a subdivision or a unit lot subdivision which had a parent lot and then you had a whole bunch of child lots, I had six ADUs. Now, we're talking about serious trip generation from that area, which front edge improvements are directly tied to the public's safety, right? So, we want to make sure people, whether you're biking or walking or driving, that that we address those safety issues as part of that development review.

Thank you. If there's nothing else, appreciate your time and all the work on this. U look forward to hearing and seeing the the next version. I appreciate it. Look forward to seeing you all again. Uh do we have any I don't I don't see anyone on from city council today. Correct. Council member Bokei is not here. Okay. So, let's go ahead and skip. Our next meeting isn't uh really October 15th. It is

No, my apologies. It's November 3rd. So, there's actually because of the way the days fall three weeks from now. And uh you'll hear more about title 12 and the uh engineering service manual. If we're ready with information regarding the alcohol production and use, we'll bring that back. I'm not sure if it'll be ready. It might be the meeting afterward. Uh but November 3rd is your next meeting. Yeah. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. For clarity, November 3rd is the city council meeting, I think. Oops. We're on the 5th, I think. Wednesday. Yes. Yes. I apologize. Correct. Spoke too quickly. Hey, thanks for looking at the calendar. All right.