City Commission - Regular Meeting

It starts a minute before it lets me know it's started just for your information. It sort of starts like it says it's setting up for me, but I think it's already started. Okay, yep. Um Madam Mayor, it is 9:01 and we are live. Thank you very much. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the May 1st um special agenda meeting of the City of Lake Worth Beach. Can I have the roll call, please? Thank you so much. Mayor Betty Walsh Here. Vice Mayor Mimi May Here. Commissioner Sarah Malega Present. And I do not see Commissioner McVoy nor Commissioner Sagrich.

I just sent them both a text and I have not received a response. Okay. Well, they know about it. Well, they'll they'll join us if they can. I have to leave though. Um I have a court Zoom court hearing at 9:30, so I'm a little Fortunately, we have a very small agenda. Um so, what would the only two things was really that I see on the agenda um are this the things about things that, you know, outside statues attached and also then the water uh infrastructure element. I was wondering if we could you know, does anybody want to talk about the first one? The uh murals and all that? No, ma'am. I did see that the dinosaur is back. Oh, that's good. Ooh, I like your hair. Yeah. It's cute. Um Thank you. Thank you. So, do we have do we should we talk about anything about that? I have nothing on this agenda. I already met the staff. Yeah. Um and the next one is the infrastructure, the water supply plan. Maybe someone could explain that to us briefly. It seems self-explanatory. I don't think Von's here. William? I thought it was it's a William thing though. It's a we're processing it. It's a William Waters Community Sustainability. It's a um comp plan amendment to include the 10-year water supply plan. We're just facilitating it for the water sewer utility. Okay. Um So, we don't have really much to talk about it. William, you you're part of this. You you've looked at it. You've reviewed it, obviously, I would think. Uh actually, I haven't I cuz my staff was taking it through the um LPAs, which

is reviewed by the planning board and the preservation board as it's an amendment to the comp plan. Um we've done this before um I think five years ago. And it's required under Florida statute to be updated every so often. It includes your 10-year water supply plan. Um And we have enough water water? Are you talking about your first municipal water staff? I can only make that conclusion that we have enough water. How that impacts some of the things that you are discussing behind the scenes in terms of water supply and providing water to other entities, I could not answer any of those questions. Of course. Okay, thank you. Anybody else? Madam Mayor Madam Mayor, Commissioner McVoy has arrived. Good morning, Mr. McVoy. Good morning. Apologies. I It's okay. It's a short agenda. We don't have much to talk about. Uh I don't know about that. Um the first thing on the agenda is really just two items. The first thing is the murals and statues or ordinance second reading. Do you have any comments on that? No one really has had any comments. It's the second reading. Chris, I'm asking you. Oh, I didn't realize you were asking me. Sorry, I apologize. We've gone over both of the items already. Apparently, I made very thin coffee this morning. Um um it No, I I mean I I just generally the challenge of You know, you know What's that? I said if you don't have any comments, it's, you know, you don't have to. Well, it's just, you know, my general one is it's important for us to keep our somewhat quirky nature and and how you write that into regulations while also protecting us from, you know, the most outrageous stuff is not easy. I think it's more or less okay. Yeah, I mean, you do it, you know, it's

hard thing to do. Yeah. So, um now, the next one we just had finished before you Oops. along with the 10-year water plan that's been approved by the H P B and the planning zoning board. Do you have any comments about that? It's filling in a requirement that we have to do. I have Yeah, go ahead. I'm waiting for you. Oh, okay. I I didn't realize that. Um it it was the sound was cutting in and out, so I Your sound is fading out, Mayor. Oh, okay. Well, I'm up here at the beach, so it's a little loud. I'm doing the best I can. I missed certain words and so I probably lost some of the meeting. No, I was asking you, Chris, right? Um I'm glad we're doing it. Obviously, it's a statutory requirement also, so, you know, of course we're doing it. That's good. Um I've read some of it. I haven't read all the way through it yet. Uh I I think we should all read it. It's good to know some of this stuff. Um and where we are on, you know, our allotment from the water management district and where we get our water, surface and Floridian, blah blah blah. Um and and how it looks for supply. Um

[clears throat]

so, yeah, I'm glad we're doing it and uh I imagine I will vote in favor of it. Well, thank you very much. I do have when we're done with I have to leave. I have a court hearing at 9:30. Miss May? Miss May? Yeah, if we have nothing more on the agenda, I do want to talk a little bit about the code meeting. Okay. It's also next week. Um What I my understanding is that a lot of the situations that we're getting phone calls from it's it's the communication between the code department and the building department. Is it Yeah, that's part of it. And I don't I just want to make sure that the building department representatives are going to be at that meeting, too, because I don't want code to hear an entire bashing of something they have no control of. Well, there's I I Yes, there is there does seem to be a communication issue between those two areas. There also seems to be a communication problem with the citizens and the staff people. The the citizens

Right. Right, but I think a lot of it is I'm not getting a lot of calls that say the code person doesn't call me back. I'm getting calls that say the building officials don't call me back. Right. Me, too. And so, I don't want to, you know, and I hope that the the meeting is not bashing of anyone. It's a it's an information data seeking meeting and when we're looking for solutions all around cuz I don't think there's a Putting blame on anyone doesn't do any good. So, we're looking for solutions, but I really feel like we need to have the building department officials there, too, because that's where I'm getting the communication gaps. It's not with the code officers. People don't like what the code officers are doing, but the code officers are communicating. And when it says you need to get a permit because we're going to code you about a fence and they go to get a permit and that's not code. And so, it I I want to make sure that everybody has a chance to speak to their part of the process. Okay. Now, there was I see your hand up Chris. There was I was thinking about this that yesterday. There was a report done by our internal auditor on what happened last year sometime and it's really It was good. It was good. It's a good one and I think it behooves us all to read it before we come to that meeting cuz it talked about process and he met with the staff. It's going to sound like a I mean, it's always going to sound like a bashing thing, unfortunately, but um he he had staff involved with it. He had the staff engaged in his conversations and they came up with some solutions. So, could we all make a commitment to read his report before we go on Thursday? Yeah, was Anthony here when we got that cuz if not, he needs a copy. Maybe not, but may maybe it could be just shared again with us um by um by I think that's a good idea. He didn't have very Right. Yeah.

Melissa, did you He had very concrete suggestions and be good to get an update on what's been done with them. Right. I'm sorry. Can you refresh my memory about the document you're talking about? Yeah, I forgot it. The au- the internal auditor's audit of the process of code planning that, you know, that department when he engaged with them. I don't know when I mean, it might be in my office. So William, do you have that handy or you want me to I can look in Barracuda for Will's email. I don't have it handy where I'm at now and it and it um did not look at [clears throat]

Most of it was about the building permit process. Right, which is internal, you know, I mean they're they're quite tied. Mr. Perry? Yes, thanks Madam Mayor. We'll we'll find the report and disseminate it to all the commissioners, just in case. We'll find it. It's pretty involved, but I think it would be it's a good start. It's a good, you know, basis. Um Chris? Uh just to say I have something else after this um and would like to be able to bring that up. Um But not right now. I mean Right. Correct. On this one um I I agree with this suggestion. Let's So Sarah has her hand up about that. Oh, okay. I have my hand up to to come have a conversation about the audit internal auditor. Right. Not about this. Okay, so on this one I

Wait wait wait wait wait. Wait the internal auditor's report has to do with the code of conduct. No, mine is about making sure that we all go through this booklet and that we make sure we get an internal auditor hired as soon as possible. Yep. Is that anything else, Sarah? No, that's all. I wanted to make sure is that we all are doing our job.

it. And I did inquire as to what the process is going to be since we've never done an internal auditor hire before um and Mr. Perry said he was going to look into that and get back with us. Okay, thank you. Um Mr. Perry? Yes, Madam Mayor. Uh what I was going to do as part of my comments this morning is to go find out from the commission if they had an opportunity to look through those applications and if they were fine and that we can proceed and I will get with HR this morning or whenever all the commissioners agree that they had an opportunity to take a look at it and map out the process of how we want to proceed. But I just want to make sure you have an opportunity to look through you know, look through it cuz look through the all of the applicants that applied. I have not because I was away when it came and I didn't take it with me on vacation, but I will look at it when I get back. I can So so so is it is it consensus that it's all right to get with HR and move forward with with the process? I'm sorry. So it's consensus that we can move forward with the process and bring bring it bring it to the commission. Okay. I think that's important to do and I'll I'll cut out. Thank you. Um Sarah, was your hand still up? Okay. Chris? Um

[clears throat] my hand's up for different topic. Is that okay? that. Uh yeah, thank you. Okay. Um [clears throat]

Different topic, but very timely with with the things that are going on in various meetings of different parts of our our city. Um I guess I have a question and will have an an asking for consensus in a minute. My question, first question is is the unique character of our downtown that comes from a sort of sometimes labeled old Florida feel, is that important to my colleagues? And if so, what are we going to do to protect this? Um because over the last several years we've been steadily diminishing that by knocking down buildings that were historic and proposing to build buildings that are definitely not historic. And I think the public needs to know where we all stand on that. And so the consensus that I'm asking for is we had a downtown master plan that was done that the CRA and the city commissioned or or asked for and paid for uh done by the Treasure Coast Regional Planning Council that was very well received um in terms of the process by the public. There was very active public participation. I'm asking for consensus from my colleagues that we put that report, that document, on the agenda for a discussion of whether we need to update that to make it consistent with what we are actually doing or whether we are to reaffirm that we are in fact going to follow it. Because it had it was a very clear expression, not quite as clear as a vote, but we had a vote that kind of went in a similar direction. Um

it was a very clear broad public participation of our public. And I think we need to be clear, does it need revisioning or or revising or uh are we right behind where it stands and we affirm it or or not? So I'm asking for consensus from my colleagues whether we could have that put on an upcoming agenda. I disagree with your premise that we the four of you you you you keep hurling this this sword of I'm the only one that seems to care about the quirky nature of our city and it's getting a little tiresome. We are all concerned with the Uh the volume went down a lot.

what we're here to protect. You don't agree? Well, let me finish. Let me finish. Hey, no, I'm just saying the sound cut out. Mr. Mr. Mr. McVoy, can I finish? Thank you. Um we asked the question of the citizens and they answered the question. It's quite that simple, okay? So I don't you know, if we if you want to look at the master I don't in terms of like looking in the broad spectrum of of the master plan and looking at it you know, does it still fit? That's fine. But I really find it I don't have a word for it. Um Uh I I don't have a word for it is Mr. Mr. McVoy, but you what? Um you know, it's it's it's tiresome. It's tiresome. You have a very practiced uh scenario of I'm the only one that cares about good governance in the city and you all better you know, So I have no problem with looking at it. Of course we should look at it. That's review. But the the constant um beating of your chest against the rest of us. Uh I I I I appreciate your So having said that, I don't have any problem with I'm looking for consent simple consensus. Um can we have that report put on as a discussion item with the intent of figuring out does it need updating? Do we uh commit to following it? Where are we on that? Um or are we going to vote to get rid of it? What whatever it is that we're going to do so the public knows, you know, what is guiding our thinking about this. Mr. McVoy? Um I I on on this I just have to say yes, we're all in favor of keeping our our master plan in a full functioning capacity, but at the same time without growth those city is dead. So it's a

it's a fine balance that I think all of us on the commission are aware of and cognizant of. And um I that's all I have to say on this, but I do have something else I'd like to address when you have the time, Madam Mayor. But but

Yeah, I'm okay, I'm running out of time. I'm going to be leaving in about 3 minutes. Um Miss May, if you'll take over when I leave. Uh Anthony, I have a court hearing a Zoom hearing, so I have to go. Good morning. Let the record reflect that Mr. Savage has joined us. So um I hate to cut out, but I do have to get that set up. So I'm going to leave in Well, I'm just going to cut out in a couple minutes and then Miss May will take over. Mr. Savage? Uh good morning, Madam Mayor. Um so I I don't have a problem discussing the master plan. Um I think um what Mr. McVoy is discussing about um replacing of historic buildings with very modern looking ones isn't a problem of the master plan. It it actually has to do with our historic department. Um we're it's not only the downtown, we're seeing it in our neighborhoods as well. Um and it is actually the policy of our historic uh department. And I don't know if this is guided by national requirement or not. You know, so I'm not disparaging them at all, but it is it is the policy that if a building is taken down and a new one erected or an addition or subsequent building put in a historic neighborhood, it needs to be significantly different such that no one could mistake it for a historic building. Which ends up you know, yielding you know, uh in my in my neighborhood of South Palm Park, you know, new house goes up, they look ultra modern. Um and that's and that's by design. Um I don't know if we have the authority to change that, um but it certainly be worth discussing because I do know um many residents um and myself included um are not happy with that. Um I think a lot of us would like buildings that are um more in line with the historic buildings um going up. So I I think it's an interesting discussion. I don't know necessarily if that particular part is master plan only. Um but I have no

problem having the discussion um on that topic. There were a lot of residents from South Palm Park at the historical board last week about a house that's being built up. You know, and you know, and I guess you know, a lot of it comes to question how much authority, how much control do we want to take over people's private property rights. Yes. I just do what they want to do with their property. That's that's part of this has to be part of this discussion. And with that I'm going to cut out because I've got to get set up for my next meeting. Thank you all. See you all Tuesday and have a good weekend. Thank you thank you, Miss May, for taking over. Yep. And I'll I'll listen to the rest of it later. Okay. Um Vice Mayor, I'm sorry to interrupt. I just wanted to let everyone know that Von Baker is now on the Zoom if anybody has a question about the ordinance related to the water supply. So I can before we go on, Madam Vice Mayor, I I want to make sure that we get consensus from everybody that we are going to So far I've heard the mayor supports it. Commissioner Segrest supports it. Uh I think I heard Commissioner Malega sort of supporting putting a discussion of the current master plan on um so I guess it's just uh Madam Vice Mayor who's left to weigh in. Thank you, sir. Um yeah, well, you have consensus even if I don't weigh in, but I think that's fine. I'm always open to any discussion that we want to have. Um and we'll go from there. I do want to ask I don't see him anymore. Did William leave? No, he's here. He Oh. I don't see him in the list of attendees. He's there now. How come we don't see any of our staff? Oh, there he is. He's an attendee, not a panelist. I don't know if that means he can't talk, but um I

Yes, he can talk. Okay, I would I would like to hear from William to see um can you confirm and/or expand upon what Mr. Segrest is saying about the new builds having to look completely different than the neighborhoods? Uh this is William Waters. Can you all hear me cuz I can't tell cuz I'm logged in on a phone cuz my computer wouldn't work. Yes, we can.

Okay, um on the downtown master plan, that was never adopted. It was accepted by the city commission. So um cuz there were things in it that directly conflicted with the LDRs that if it had been adopted, we would have had to address, but you all accepted it. Um I don't remember who was on the commission when it happened. So that's the issue with the downtown master plan. As for the Secretary of the Interior of the Standards, they stipulate explicitly that additions and new construction should read and be differentiated from the original so that they do not create a false sense of history. It is far more challenging for an architect to create a modern interpretation of say a frame vernacular house than to go the route of contemporary. Our design guidelines do encourage and um speak to uh preferences for frame vernacular, mid-century modern, art deco, streamline moderne, art moderne, bungalow, craftsman as being the more appropriate styles to build in the historic districts, but this does not preclude or prevent somebody from doing a contemporary house. Okay, so that is not necessarily directed by policy, it's directed by the owner of the property. Right, but the guidelines that we have in national follow the national um Park Service, the Secretary of the Interior Standards as well as our design guidelines allow some choice on what style the person wants to add to the historic district. Correct, but they could build a home that looks similar to a historic home and is not historic. Yes? Yes, and we have numerous examples of those as well. Though people often complain that they're much taller and in the flood zones they're much they're set up at a much higher elevation than the existing houses, which FEMA is requiring that, not city staff necessarily. Correct. No, I I understand that part. Okay, um

Anthony, does that make sense? Does that go with what you were saying? Yeah, he said it a little more eloquently than than I did, but I I but I feel like you guys said different things. Am I misunderstanding? Um I I basically just said that they they have to be different. But he's saying they don't. They they have to be distinguishable as as new. But they could look like an old one. But it has to be distinguishable as new. Yeah. How would you do that? That's what William was saying is a challenge for for most people, so they then choose just to do contemporary. So William, can you speak to that just I'm really trying to understand that. So let's say I want to build a ranch house, let's just say. I'm I'm cuz that's what I have and I but I want to rebuild it. I can't do that? Well, you could. Um we have truth in architecture, so if you want to do a ranch style house, ranch is a form of architecture. It's not actually a style necessarily because ranch homes come in prairie style.

know what style and I don't I mean I don't know. Well, we can say that you want to do a mid-century modern ranch. Low slung, windows are normally horizontally oriented, um very wide eaves, um the ceilings are usually fairly low in the house unless they're vaulted on the inside, and it's a long and low building. It may have some fenestration that's uh cast stone or some other kind of stone. It could be stucco, it could be brick. Um there's usually some front porch. They're very almost never symmetrical. Um they're asymmetrical in the base of the building and how the various pieces of the building go together. Uh how you differentiate it and that's this is where it's a challenge. Often times you can tell a difference between an old building, say a ranch, and a new one based on the types of materials that are used to construct it because there are now modern more modern materials that can replicate but not completely copy older materials. Windows look very different because they're now impact rated or hurricane rated. Uh we often allow a broader array of roofing types on a new ranch style house than you would have on a historic ranch style house. So there are ways that you can read it. It may not be completely visible to the average layperson that they are from different periods because um not everybody recognizes uh the different qualities and material types that were used in say 1940, 1950 versus what they're using in 2026. Okay, thank you. Anthony, do you see what I'm saying? Like that doesn't sound like it has to be different. Um it does have to be different. It but it can look similar, but most people are encouraged to make it significantly different. Okay. All right, um Sarah, you have your hand up. Go ahead. Who are they Who are they who's telling them that it has to? Is it

the historical board that you're you're saying, Mr. Segrest? No, it's it's the historic standard. The Secretary of the Interior says that if you

I'm saying you said that they're being Mr. I'm listening to Mr. William Mr. Waters say that it has to look the same but be different in material, but you're saying that that's not the direction. That's what I'm trying to understand. Where are we Let me Let me help a little bit. If you pull the Secretary of the Interior Standards bulletin on new construction, they historically for a long time, I think it's been updated now, they had a very nice Beaux-Arts style residence that had been converted to a bank. And it's on the front cover. And the teller that was been added to the back is a glass box that obviously reads as like a 1980s, '90s brutalist type addition. And that's what they were using as their example to differentiate the old from the new. So the implication, if you look at that, even if you don't read anything, is that the National Park Service wants the new to look substantially different and completely, in my opinion, unsympathetic to the original. Um we try as best we can to have the contemporary buildings be in a similar mass, um an arrangement of um solids and voids, height, um but uh there is a preference right now and it's happening in West Palm, too, a proliferation of of more contemporary modern houses that are desirous of people who are moving here from other areas where contemporary architecture is much more appreciated. I'm not casting aspersions about the new people who are coming, um but even in my own neighborhood in Flamingo Park, there is an interest in having far more contemporary architecture here than what is his historically been here. So okay. All right, um Sarah, did you want to change the subject? I do. Um so I'm a little concerned on some of the funding that's being stripped away from our city and many entities. One of our projects um Pinnacle on Sixth was just denied their um

tax credit and I I just want to read this for the record. Um and and I'm a little taken back that after all the work and the money and the time and the partnership that we're doing to create housing, um unfortunately, the selection committee did not choose um the Pinnacle on on Sixth board. Um so their request was the smallest amount smallest in the total amount among the 10 respondents, would fill a critical gap that puts the development on a path of viability, was the most shovel ready, working closely with the city and the CRA, and we weren't chosen. And when I look at that and I look at what happened with the CDBG, I have a real concern that some of the conversations that have happened on our dais in regards to national matters is affecting us now. And I'm not here to to get into a conversation. I'm not here to have a dissertation about this. I just know that the things that are said in the dais have repercussions. And for this project not to be chosen when when it was the most shovel ready, had all the partners in place, literally checked all the boxes, and we're not selected for it, our city, and then the CDBG, they did a deep dive into who our tenant was. I'm genuinely concerned that some of the rhetoric that has happened on the dais over the last 6 to 8 months is now coming back to bite us. And again, not having a conversation, don't want anyone to defend themselves. We just have to be mindful as a dais that the things that we say and do, from the way we talk to our staff, the way we talk to each other, and the way that we some of us try to talk about national issues, everybody pays attention. You may not think so, but it's the proof is now in the dollars, and I'm really concerned with the federal funding. I'm concerned with our appropriations, and I just want us all

to be mindful. We are here to work for the 7 square miles, the 46,000 plus people that are here. We are not here to take on national issues, we're not here to take on the big devil by the horns. We are here to do what's right for the city, and when we do things that cost the city projects and funding and money, in my opinion, I'm not doing the best job that I can do as an elected. So, I'm very disheartened that Pinnacle on 6 didn't get this funding. Um this project is we're moving on very swiftly. It has had a lot to do with, you know, this project came in when we moved some of our our our own infrastructure around. So, there's a bitter bigger implication to this decision than just affordable housing. Um so, I just want to go on the record to say we need to be mindful and know that sometimes these things can come back in ways that we didn't even know that they could come back in. Um Sarah, who was the funding through? The county or the state? The county, and I'll forward you guys I think you guys received the email as well from Joan. Um and Anthony said shaking his head yes. And when did it come? Uh yesterday. I don't think I did. Um yeah, it came yesterday, and I and I'll send it to you. Um and you both I'll forward it to everybody again. Again,

that's two pieces of funding that the county Yep. So, I and I'm and I'm going to send this to cuz I don't know why just Anthony saw it. Maybe he got it from somebody else, but um you know, this is just again, I'm disheartened. I'm I'm not very happy about this. Um but it you know, I'm not going to I'm not going to call and and put more of a bull's-eye on us, right? Cuz we've already had that done. And the only thing we can do is pivot, you know? I love what you always say, Vice Mayor, let's find a way to yes, right? So, we find a way to yes for these great projects, we get them shovel ready, and we think, "Okay, great. They're going to get their you know, their tax credits that they need." And then we're dead in the water. So, um I just forwarded it to everybody's email. Um please let me know um if you if you didn't get it, and I'll resend it. But I just I want us to be cognizant and aware of the things that we do on the dais and the repercussions that other people who aren't us will face along the way. That's all I have. Thank you. Um Mr. McVoy. Yeah, thank you. Um could I get a little clarification Well, first of all, let me say that I share um Commissioner Malega's concern about the situation we had on Tuesday that we had selected in our community a CDBG project that had community support, um provided needed funding for a organization that provides services to everybody in the community that that asked for them. Um and I'm a little disappointed that we as a commission didn't push back and say, "Hey, was that in fact legal? Were we if we had used that money for what we had said as the community we wanted to use

it for, would we have been in violation of any laws? Would there be a situation where we as a community might want to push back legally as many municipalities have done with SB 180? They stepped up and said, "You know what? The stuff that came out of um Tallahassee on some of these planning things probably isn't in fact legal with state law." And they banded together to challenge it. I think similarly, telling us what we can spend money on for things that have public support, uh is probably not legal either. So, I would have liked to have seen stronger pushback on that. But to bring it more specifically to the Pinnacle project, which I certainly voted for and thought was a good project, and I agree that our process, both CRA and city, was very good on it.

[snorts] What evidence I mean, an assertion is being made by Commissioner Malega that um whichever body, and it wasn't clear to me from what the comments what body it was that voted on on that particular project and choosing not to give it the tax credit. What evidence do we have that that had anything to do with anything else? There's no evidence. I'm I'm just stating very clearly there's no reason that that shouldn't have been chosen. So, that's not evidence as as far as that would never stand up in

stated I didn't want to have a dissertation. I'm stating my feelings, my emotions. I'm not looking for an argument. Um I believe similar things is anything happening in Delray? They had a big public thing about uh their crosswalk that the state came and painted over. They spoke out clearly on it. Um it Yes, some things, national issues, do relate to our residents very directly often. The the EPA's decision to fly in the face of science and say that carbon dioxide is not uh causing climate change, we are a coastal community. Sea level rise, as we heard from our water director, very much affects us. And yes, we should speak out on some of those things. And if if state agencies or county agencies are making decisions, their criteria for deciding what project to fund, they have, you know, a process and rules. It's based on the project and on, you know, who it will serve and how ready it is and all those things. And if they're not doing it on that, they should be challenged on what basis they're doing it on. But again, I'm not seeing any smoking gun evidence to support the hypothesis that's been put forth. Thank you. And she's not asking for support. She's just sharing her opinion, and my that's what I'm hearing. Um two other things I just wanted to ask you guys um I'm looking at the order, and this might be a question for the clerk. Um is there a reason that the presentations come before the proclamations?

Melissa.

Um let me open the agenda. So, [snorts] I tried to do it to get people out. Like for instance, I don't think Chief Spiegelhalter should have to wait for all the proclamations to be read. Um I just like my concern with it is I'm looking at the e-bike presentation, the circuit presentation, and I just I I worry that we may get into a back-and-forth conversation there, which would hold us from from getting to the the proclamations, which also have people waiting. That's the what That's what I was looking at. I don't know if it matters, and I don't know if my colleagues care, but I was just wondering, and it makes sense to look at it and see how how what order you put it in, but um

Yeah, that is what I tried to do, and also be mindful because um the first three proclamations involve staff. Um but at the meeting on Tuesday, we can certainly reorder things if you feel a different order is appropriate. I mean, I I just don't want people to have to wait for their turn in these beginning presentations and proclamations because we as a commission get into a discussion about something that really isn't It's a time for a presentation, not a discussion. I I agree we should just reorder it on the day of the of the meeting. Okay. I Do you see Do you see what I'm saying there? Like I'm trying to figure out because if we talk about e-bikes and we talk about circuit, um it will take time that people will have to wait. Um so, I will I'll do that on on Tuesday. I'll reorder.

Madam Vice Mayor. Presentations, I mean, generally, there's a presentation, and then there's an opportunity for questions and answers from the dais, but the intent is not to then have a discussion because the e-bike where I know there is a plan to have a discussion about the e-bikes. And I'm sure circuit will be coming back as well as regular

do we have So, why wouldn't we wait and do those on those nights? That's a good question. I don't know. Because I was asked to add these to the agenda. So, I did. I agree that that especially if you're bringing somebody outside in, um it it doesn't really make sense to just have a presentation and then tell them, "Yeah, thanks, but we don't do any discussion and we're not going to think about it, so go away." Um it would make sense to pair it with a discussion or make the presentation be part of the discussion. Anthony, what do you think? I I I agree. I mean, I I I mean, it's useful to have the presentation. You know, we we were waiting for this presentation, but I I don't understand why it's not paired with the actual discussion on the topic. Cuz I thought that was the point of bringing in this presenter. Get somebody who had a expert opinion or {slash} experience in legislation surrounding the e-bikes and then we were going to have a discussion item on it. Um So, could we I I and I don't want to

In terms of the the proclamations and and all that, I I I don't know who's here for the proclamations cuz when we went to give consensus for it, um I only consented to ones that were requested, um but they all got put on anyway. So, um I'm not sure if we have people waiting for them or not waiting for them. We do. We do. So, um so, would Troy, is there a way to wait on the circuit and the e-bike one until we have those items up or do you think this is an appropriate use of our time now? Um we certainly could contact both organizations and see if they can reschedule. We you know, we have been waiting for the uh the electric bike presentation and we also we I think if the clerk the clerk can correct me if I'm wrong, we originally were trying to get the um circuit presentation before May 5th, but we could

Okay. So, so, let's leave them, but let's let's leave them then and then as a group realize that this is not the time for a discussion. Okay. But I think it's then only professional to inform Mr. Weigder and whoever is presenting from Circuit that "Thanks for coming. We're going to have to ask you to come back if you're willing because we're not having a discussion now. We're just going to hear what you have to say and that's the end of it."

That's not true. It's not like we're going to forget what they said. We can have the we can have the presentation because it's been scheduled and they're hard to schedule. We are not going to have amnesia the next day, so we'll remember what they said when we have our discussion. And if we need to go back and watch it again, it's being recorded. So, I think it is fine if it's there as long as we all realize that that's not the time for a huge discussion.

My my point was as a professional courtesy to the people coming to present who might very realistically think that "Oh, I'm going to share my expertise, present some things, and then we'll discuss it, and we'll have some back and forth, and I can, you know, help inform them, and and it's normal that there would be back and forth." I think we need to be professionally let them know the way we set things up, "Thanks for coming and presenting, but we're not going to do that. We might invite you back for a discussion." Um Okay, Troy. Madam Oh. Um Madam Vice Mayor, as you recall, the the electric bike presentation was originally, I guess, brought forward by the mayor. I guess she met the gentleman at a uh conference or whatever the case might be, and she thought it would be a good idea to hear his presentation. So, I didn't know I didn't know whether or not I don't know whether or not we were going to use the basis his information as a basis to develop our plan long-term, but he was given he was going to provide us with some information, so I'm not sure if he was going to be prepared to answer all of our questions as we move forward trying to adopt an ordinance. So, that's what I think the original uh plan was to hear his presentation, some of the things that he he's encountered, you know, through you know, his research. So, like I said, if you want us to move you know, call the call both organizations and try to reschedule and put it in a format where you can have a discussion, that's fine. That's That's fine.

No, no, I think it's okay to hear him. I just as long as we all know what our plan is. Um

Um Madam Vice Mayor? Yes, ma'am. As a professional city clerk, uh everybody who's giving presentations knows the time limits and that that does not include time for questions and answers. Um so, they know they're prepared on what will happen. They'll do a presentation, and then there'll be a time for questions and answers, not necessarily a discussion about the item. It's not But I mean, going forward, we could certainly pair them. It was not my understanding that this It seemed that this information was needed maybe before the items came back. Okay. Thank you. Um Sarah had her hand up and then Anthony. I'm I'm good. Anthony. Uh thank you. Um mine's off the agenda. I just had um some questions for Sarah if that's okay. I'll do that now. About the other about the e-bike?

on on another topic that's not So, are we all okay now remembering that it's a presentation and and we can ask questions about his presentation, but not have a discussion about our policies? And I also think that it's important that the mayor be brought aware of this and set that precedent prior to the discussions and the presentation. Okay. And as the clerk said that the presenter has been has been made aware of that at least according to her. So, if he should know that, but I agree with you. If Sarah wants or if the mayor wants to do that, she should do that. Um I think she should set the tone anyway. Um Anthony. You can bring up your question. Um okay.

I was listening to the um uh the historic meeting about the garage, and I I had um two questions. Um and I don't know if staff has the answer now, but uh it'd be nice if we could get get the answer. Um one is where did the concept of putting a living wall on the garage, the K Street garage, come from? And why is it a condition uh of approval um or suggested condition of approval? And then my second question is do we have a final budget and plan for the movement of the leisure services building? Like final numbers on that. Uh good morning, William Waters again. I can answer the first part. The living wall was put out there as a um decorative or other type of item to help make the building be more um pedestrian-friendly and uh warm in terms of its situation in the historic district. I believe it came up as far back as more than a year ago. Uh the And as for it being a condition, the preservation board approves through the certificate of appropriateness the final design of how it looks. Um there were several options given to them um with the wall, without the wall, with the mirror, without the mural, and they chose to make a recommendation that the certificate of appropriateness they would approve to be issued would have to include the living wall and the mural. That's their role as the historic resource preservation board. The entitlement application that facilitates the zoning that allows that building to look like that will be coming to you later this May this um day in May, and I can't remember the actual date we maybe have arrived at um Interim City Manager Perry might remember. I just don't have access to a calendar right now. I'm a little

hamstrung. Um and as for the other one, I'm not aware we have a final number yet. Okay. Um but you're you're saying the living wall came from the commission? Um Well, it it was discussed way back last summer as, you know, how can we make a help make a parking garage fit more cohesively in um compatible nature with the downtown. And so, ideas such as a living wall were put out put out, paint schemes, a mural, decorative grills, um having a garage that's very similar to one that we looked at from uh Winter Park that looks like a building that has, you know, what looks like mullions and muntins of a window, but no glass. Um much of that was beyond the uh proposed budget that was approved. Um the living wall stayed in. Um we did bring up at the at the board that there might be um issues with the budget cuz there is a you know, a budget target that we have to meet, but the um direction right so far was to do value engineering on the inside of the garage and remain leave the two remaining items on the outside as last things to consider. Um the preservation board, and if you listen to the meeting I think I think you said you did, um wasn't overly thrilled with losing the living wall because there is a waiver for some of the landscaping, and appear they they wanted to keep the mural in the in the work. So, that's how they approved their certificate of appropriateness. Okay. Yeah, I know I I I remember us discussing it. I I had thought it was voted down because of budget. I thought we had we had landed on a mural. Um Does a living wall need to be um watered? Yes, it's living. That's what I thought. So, would So, does that necessitate us having a sprinkler system in this building now that would have to water this wall?

going to be the way it's designed, the living wall begins at the ground and you're already going to have a sprinkler system in place for the sod and the and the plants, the shrubbery, and the trees and palms that are already going to be there. There is a maintenance requirement of the living wall is a lot shorter than what some of the ones we saw earlier. It only rises one level along the Cage Street face where we hope to have the pop-up um interaction and pop-up retail or pop-up whatever it might be. Um and I believe you guys did vote that that would be the first thing to go if we had a budget problem. But now we put it into the certificate of [snorts]

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. Is it now not a first to go budget-wise? Well, this is if you all get to the entitlement and we get to a budget that's over budget and you don't want the the living wall, then that would have to go back to the preservation board for reevaluation or reconsideration of the certificate of appropriateness. If the the preservation board still insists on having that wall, then the decision would need to be made by the applicant, which is the city, whether to appeal that decision back to the city commission or not. Okay, and the I mean, I'm not I think the wall's cool. I mean, I have no problem with it. I just want to make sure within our budget. And I don't I don't want to pull value engineer this thing. My my you know, my my questioning it was was that I cuz I remember the discussion and I also remember the discussion having landscaping on on the top floor and and so on, which was something I was in favor of. Um but I also distinctly remember getting voted down on it. Um and that it we were the choice that we were given were decorative plates or tiles uh or mural. And living wall was not what we voted for. Um and now it's a condition within the certificate of appropriateness brought forward by staff, but I do not recall it as something that we as the commission voted for. And now let's say we decide to change it. Now we delay the whole process because now we have to go back to historic, reconsider the whole certificate of appropriateness. So, my my my question is kind of how did we get there if unless I'm mistaken and it is something that we approved as part of it, but I I I don't recall that being the case. And I went back and checked my notes and and as far as I can tell, we we only approved a mural or decorative tiles and the living wall was kind of killed

because of the maintenance requirement um and the cost. But I I could be wrong in my recollection, but I I went back and checked my notes. Um Okay. Um we have we are at 9:55. So Can I E Just a

Uh yeah, go ahead. I didn't see I am sorry. Um So, William Okay, hold on. Hold on with that. Troy, can you stop? Troy, go ahead. Yes. Yes, Madam Mayor. Uh I just wanted to respond to Commissioner Segrest's question related to the cost of moving the building. Um as a matter of fact, we had this discussion yesterday and uh owner um rep rep owner is is updating his current uh spreadsheet to include the uh results of the HRVB meeting the other night. So, what he's going to do, we have all our costs that are coming in. They're still trying to negotiate with the movers. Trying I guess the movers gave them a some type of estimate, but he's still trying to work on trying to get that estimate down. But either way uh they should have a report to us either today or Monday that includes all the costs including electrical, water, all those costs and and legal. So, you should have that either probably Monday or either Tuesday. But just wanted to give you that give you that update.

that. Um the bell is going to ring here for me, so I'm going to cut out, which means Anthony, you're in charge. Um and I will see you guys on Tuesday. Bye. Bye. Does anyone have anything else? Thank you, Troy, for that. That was my question. Mr. Chair I do have a question. We talked about the downtown master plan. And I believe you got you received consensus. When do you want that brought back? On the agenda. I would say sooner rather than later. I don't know that it has to be immediate, but it does relate to a number of things that are happening that are ongoing right now. So if one can fit it on the I believe it's the 19th meeting, that'd be great. And you want that in as a discussion item, correct? It is likely to be far longer than 30 minutes. Could be. Would it be I mean, this is William Waters again. Would it be better to have a workshop on it because as I mentioned, many things that are in the master plan aren't allowed under our existing code, comp plan, or our charter. Um and so it was accepted, but it wasn't adopted. Um Um Sarah, do you have something to say on the topic? I just wanted to say not not on the topic. I was just going to let you and Mr. McVoy know again, thank you for your your consideration of sending a letter to the school board. I'm composing that letter today and I will email it to you. If you both can respond when you get it so I can let Shona know to add your signatures to the bottom and we will get it off to them by the end of business today. Um I was advised by a board member from the school board who I will not name on what email to send it to so it goes to all of the board members in in at one

time. So, thank you again for your support. Great. Thank you. Thank you for Thank you for doing it. Um in terms of scheduling this, I mean, we have a lot of stuff on our consensus list. I would I would leave it to the city manager to kind of prioritize that and work with the staff. And it sounds like from William's feedback, Chris, that um it it's going to take some significant staff time to prepare um for this discussion because it's it's not an adopted plan and so there there's repercussions on that. So, I would I personally would would rather leave it to the city manager to to schedule in in amongst all of our other priorities that we have. As long as it's, you know, not pushed down the road too far. Um Mr. Segrest Yes, but I appreciate Sorry, the city attorney and Juan Baker both have their hands raised in case you can't see them.

Okay. Uh city attorney? I just wanted to jump in and say on the letter that Commissioner Malega is drafting, if you all will please coordinate the revisions through staff and not with each other, that would be great. Of course, I already knew that. Okay. And Juan? Sorry, I couldn't get off mute. Um I just wanted to remind you guys that I I heard you had questions for me. So, whether you want to discuss that now or shoot me an email, either is fine. Um we've got 1 or 2 minutes. Does anyone have quick questions for Juan? I don't think I did or I don't remember them. Okay. Um anyone have anything else on the agenda? No, sir. I think we're good. All right. Well, it looks like we're right on time right at the the 10:00 bell there. So, um everyone have a great weekend and we will see you guys on Tuesday. Don't forget tomorrow, taco crawl. Taco crawl tomorrow. Happy May Day, International Workers' Day today. Happy weekend. Good weekend, all.