Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I'd like to officially call to order the planning commission meeting of March 20 or of March 5th, 2026 and let the record reflect that all commissioners are present. Commissioner Vilwok will lead us in the pledge of allegiance, please. To the flag of the United States of American will introduce the first item. Thank you. This item is a presentation on the community preservation division activity for the second half of 2005 and an end of the year review. And Winston Kuruga is here this evening with a report.

Good evening uh planning commission. Congratulations Chair Standard and welcome Commissioner Fuentes. My name is Winston. I'm the code enforcement supervisor and it's my pleasure to give a update on the code community preservation division um the second half of last year and a overall year-end review. So, we're just going to talk a bit briefly on uh some of our activity from the last six months of last year. Uh a 2025 uh overview, some notable happenings in particular focusing on some community outreach that we did. And then I'm sure you're all going to love Lake Forest. So, we'll get into that at the end. So, here's the statist statistics for the second half of 2025. Uh as you see we carried over about 107 cases from uh the first half of the year and we had 289 new cases. Uh we closed 245 cases which gave us um 151 cases uh going into 2026. Um just so you know that these case numbers do not include uh this the vendor operations that we do and contacts that we have. I'll I'll briefly touch on that in another slide. The other part of the second half of last year that we have is new data. Um if you recall in the past we'd kind of bunch all our um cases into just smaller categories like zoning or property maintenance. Um but that didn't really tell us what kinds of cases we were dealing with in detail. Uh so now we have a much more precise way of looking at what cases we're dealing with. As you can see, um the letters are a bit small, but you can see there's much more information there that we have, um into the types of cases we're dealing with. Um as we can see that the majority are

residential, mainly with things like that visually blightful as we could say. Um it also allows us as a department, as a division to um allocate our resources better, whether that be through community outreach um or through enforcement efforts. So, we're excited to see how this data gets built upon throughout the years um and how it will help us shape our division's work. So, this is the uh numbers for the whole year as a as a total. Um as you can see, we we closed 79% of our cases, which was 10% more cases than last year in 2024. That is um this is again mainly due to the efforts of having extra staff. We have two limited term officers who've really stepped up and and helped us to achieve more co cases um in a quicker uh time frame even though we've had about 4% more cases on 2024. So um that's uh something we're proud of. Um we also have there at the bottom 160 vendor contacts. Um that doesn't sound like a lot. Um but throughout the year, specifically in the early parts of the year, um our two limited term officers worked really hard out in the streets. Um and they got that number really low. And we had a really long period where we weren't seeing many vendors at all that were unpermitted. Um we did start to see a small rise again towards the end of the year, but again, it's something that they've been on top on, which is really good. On the right we can see just a spread of the overall cases that we've had throughout the year. Um we can see again mainly the most cases of residential ones are in the south of the city where we see the older housing um more needs there for for property maintenance and that really is where community outreach has been our focus. So we'll talk about that. Now

2025 really was a year for us as a division for community outreach. Um the neighborhood improvement task force or NITF as we call it um focused on area three which we see there at the top left of the screen. Um we conducted uh three uh community outreach events throughout the year. Um we see the first one there on May 3rd. We did a pop-up event. We had over a hundred residents show up, many young ones. Uh we had the booths from many different organizations. We had a bike rodeo. Really fun event. lots of community came out. Um it was an opportunity for them to engage with one another and also different organizations. On October 11th, we conducted our first southwest sips um which was like a coffee with the city uh council member um now Mayor Robert Peo and also city staff. Um, we were just able to sit down in a comfortable setting, enjoy some coffee, a donut, and uh, really just talk with the residents, listen to them, share some of the things that we're doing in the area with them, gather feedback. It was a really nice event, and we've gone on to do others, which we'll report on in our next meeting. Then on November 15th, I thought I was in England again. Um, it was a really wet dump day that we had. Um there was a lot of rain and it was a it was a soggy one, but we were still able to catch um and encourage the residents to bring all their junk and things that they didn't want. We collected about one and a half tons of of uh trash and debris um thanks to help from our public works and CRNR as well. So this really again is just a focus on something that we're doing as a division. uh really trying to reach out to the community, educate them and also see what we can do to help them improve their neighborhoods.

Now, finally, one of the real achievements of last year was to do with strategic initiative number 30. As you know, the city council periodically sets strategic initiatives. Uh and on this particular cycle, number 30 was to develop a community preservation volunteer program. Um, as you can see there. Now, after much work, uh, the city identified Trellis, a local Orange County nonprofit, uh, to assist with this initiative and setting this up. Uh, and that collaboration between the city and Trellis birthed Love Lake Forest, which I'm really happy to introduce to you now, um, Omar Tees, who is the Trellis um, Lake Forest community catalyst. um and he's going to give you a brief overview of the work that Love Lake Forest has done uh to this point and after his presentation both of us will be available for for comments. Good evening. Uh six months ago, Love Lake Forest was launched. Through our labors of love project and initiative, we are able to meet uh needs in our community that are real. The Love Lick Forest movement is about bringing uh city leaders, churches, businesses, schools, nonprofits, and residents all to do good works for the city. And here I have some uh photos to show you of the projects we have completed. We have uh we did our launch in September and uh we did Sophie's uh front yard which was quite an undertake. That was supposed to be our soft launch and then in October we had a uh veterans home

project uh where we painted the veterans home in collaboration with Home Depot. Uh then we go to uh December. If you notice, we did not have a November project because one of our uh we actually had something lined up, but the resident uh at the last minute backed out at the uh beginning. Some of the residents were hesitant to let us into their properties because who does anything for free nowadays? But thankfully because of the mayor's minute and also the article on the leaflet, I've been getting calls about people wanting and requesting help. Uh so we are very grateful for that. Uh we were able to also do holiday lights for uh for veterans there and we also did a uh is this working? There we go. Fence staining project in January. That's it. And I want to uh highlight this particular project we did last month for our labors of love project. This was a project done for Linda, a Lake Forest resident, uh 84 year old woman, widow, uh living independently. I believe this truly represents what Love Lake Forest is really about. And for this project, we have we had neighbors. We had uh volunteers show up to serve Linda. And we also had a collaboration with Marquez Gardener who gave professional donated professional services. Also, CRNR donated a three-yard bin to do our uh green waste. And uh Pacific Coast Arborist donated nearly uh 15 yards of uh fresh mulch to cover Linda's front yard. and part of her backyard.

So, I believe this is truly a good representation of what uh Love Lake Forest is about. Uh this is our sixmonth impact impact summary. Uh we did we serve seven households uh 88 volunteers, 452 hours and uh here at the bottom we highlight how many uh we put a dollar value to the hours and this is done through our volunteer website where people sign up to volunteer. It's called golden uh volunteer and they use a standardized e economic formula used in the uh nonprofit sector and where they use different metrics like uh hourly average hourly wage and geographic location. So that's where that number comes from. And also I want to show you here a projected uh uh let's see am I on the right slide here a projected annual uh summary and so you can see there uh basically our numbers have doubled because of uh six months to a And uh so this is the uh additional value that we see also with the lake forest movement. We have seen uh donated uh professional services, materials and equipment, um businesses, business partnerships and also uh strengthen neighborhood uh relationship. Now why does this matter? Uh this strengthens community bonds. It creates uh cross- sector partnerships and it also supports vulnerable residents. It increases civic

pride and engagement and this impacts the city for good. And uh looking ahead uh labors of love is just one component of the lake forest movement. Um here we have uh our love lake forest day that is coming up in May the 16th which I I kindly ask you to please save the date. This is a citywide uh volunteer day where we will have multiple projects throughout the city uh where we anticipate hundreds of volunteers to come together to serve our city and um love our schools and other initiatives uh will roll out as this um as this uh movement grows and gains more traction. So, Labors of Love is just one part of this and we're planning to grow this even more. So, thank you so much for uh for your partnership and for your support. We look forward to uh building an even greater city of Lake Forest together. So, for more information, you can log on to lovelakeforest.org or to get more details, to request help, and to sign up for uh volunteer options. Thank you so much.

Thank you both. It was great information, great presentations. Commissioners, um questions, comments? Join Commissioner Fentes. Well, I just want to thank you, Winston, for bringing me up to date. I mean, I'm here for the first time and here you are with a great recap. Thank you so much.

Just uh what a great uh display after the the residents were improved the way that they were. So great job of the team and and and the volunteers. So look forward to the labor love event. Sir, I think this is a great program. I'm really glad to see that this is happening. I know from my experience with the HOA, we've had several residents who are financially challenged and they've been in their house for a long time and uh they don't really often times they don't have the resources to do the repairs that they need to do. So the fact that you're doing this kind of work I think is really impressive and uh I hope you get a lot of support from the volunteers in the city to make this go forward. This really is a great program. Ditto to Commissioner Luton's comments. Thank you very much for the presentation. Um, I do have a question for you though. Um, first of all, I want to say that Omar's title is amazing community catalyst. That's a first for me. I love it. Um, second is these community these neighborhood events and such. I think that they're they're exciting and I'd love to hear about them during the presentations. Is there ways that is there a way that those are or can be communicated? Because I'd love to I'm sure some of a few of us if not all of us would love to know about them in advance to be able to attend and see what they're like in person though we love hearing it from you.

Yeah, sure. Um um the next uh area that we're going to focus on, we'll be sure to at least send you guys an invite um to those events and yeah, we'd welcome any of you to to come along. That'd be wonderful. Thank you again both of you. No problem. Okay. Director Acriman, can you please introduce item two?

Yes. Item two is an overview presentation of the California Environmental Quality Act presented by Alicia Winter Swag from BBK's office. The overview is intended to support the planning commission's understanding of SQA requirements, the decisionmaking framework for projects subject to EIRS, and the legal findings necessary to ensure compliance and defensibility in the environmental review process. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Chair Stannard and Vice Chair Greybel, members of the commission. I appreciate you all having me here tonight. Um, welcome back, Commissioner Fuentes. Um and congratulations on your reappoint. Um as Miss Acriman said, today we will be talking very quickly about some SQA fundamentals. Um typically for um a refresh class like this, it can take me half a day to a full day. So, I'm not going to do a deep dive on each of the topics, but just try to provide a refresher on some of the things that I know many of you have um come across in the SQA world as you've served as commissioners over the years. So, my hope today is to cover these five points, well, four points really, and then leaving a spot at the end for Q&A. Please do feel free to interrupt me at any point if you need me to clarify something or if you have a question that seems, you know, better answered um kind of real time rather than waiting to the end. Please, please feel free to just stop me. So, we're going to go over, you know, just basically what is the purpose of this act? Why do we do this? Why are we saddled with um these extra requirements? What does the process look like? give kind of give you a snapshot an overview of the SQA process itself. We'll discuss a little bit about when SQA applies. Sometimes you may be faced with a decision and it may seem like the act should be triggered but it's not. So we'll kind of go through a couple of examples um when that might be the case. And then we're going to spend the bulk of the presentation or I will spend the bulk of the presentation going over environmental review. So when you have an action that is in fact subject to the act, what are the different ways that you could possibly proceed and what are some of the things you should keep in mind as a planning commissioner when you

are reviewing documents or when you're asked to make a decision under the act. That's kind of a road map for where we're going today. Um this slide um gives there are a lot of words here. I'm not going to read all of the words, but it gives the basic purpose of SQA. And fundamentally, SQA is a disclosure statute. SQA is not an environmental protection statute. It is intended to identify impacts, ways that those impacts can be mitigated, and then if they cannot be mitigated, um a pathway forward for the decision-making body to outline benefits of the project that justify and outweigh the environmental risks such that the agency should and could proceed with approving the project. SQA is not intended to stop projects though we all know that sometimes SQA is used as a sword by some for that purpose but fundamentally the legislative purpose is disclosure and documentation. Okay. So big picture um what are what are the things we think about when we're faced with SQA? Well first we want to think about whether it's even triggered. Um, if it is triggered, then do we have a project that's subject to the act? If we do, is it exempt? There are pathways that both the legislature and the California Natural Resources Agency have identified that um justify foregoing environmental review no matter the extent in the statutory context um no matter the extent of the environmental impact that the project might have. Uh if the project is not exempt, then we go into a step-by-step process that I'll dive into here in just a couple of minutes. We start with preliminary

review, asking ourselves some basic questions about the nature of the impacts that the action might have. And then once we do that preliminary assessment, it informs us of the potential impacts that we need to evaluate. And that preliminary assessment will drive us in the direction of one of these three types of documents. And we're going to um talk about negative declarations or NEG decks, mitigated neg. And then the heftiest of all, technically it's supposed to be the heftiest of all. Um environmental impact reports or EIRS. Um, we'll talk a little bit about preparation of the document, how that unfolds, release of the document for public review, and then the decision-making process. So, when does SQA apply? This is a fivestep analysis we go through to determine if the act is triggered. Do we have a public agency action? If yes, move forward. If you have a purely private action that requires no discretionary decision by a public agency, doesn't matter how intense those public or excuse me, it doesn't matter how intense those impacts are. If there's no public decision that needs to be made, they can move forward. Um, so public agency action is essential. If that is in play, then you have to ask yourself if you have a project again, is it exempt? If no, analyze the impacts. Okay. So, how do we decide if an action is a project? There's a three-step test for making that determination. First, you have to have a discretionary act. Ministerial acts are statutoily exempt from SQA. So, if you have a decision before you that involves no discretion whatsoever, you just are looking at a series of checklist items. You're saying yes or no whether those items are

satisfied by the application that's before you and you have no ability to shape the project through conditions or otherwise to request modifications that is a ministerial act not subject to SQA. So think about anytime you have conditions, anytime you're getting to exercise your judgment, that is a decision decision that's discretionary and satisfies that first criterion in our three-part test. You are a public body. You're a planning commission. You'll be making recommendations and decisions. So in that way, you know, item number two in the test is always very easy for you to identify. Item number three is whether or not that decision, that discretionary act that you're about to take has the potential for resulting either in direct or reasonably foreseeable indirect impacts to the environment. If yes, then you have a project. You are within the SQL realm. You need to think about the implications of that decision from an environmental standpoint. Before you go to full-blown environmental review, you want to ask yourself, is the project exempt? There are three types of exemptions in order of importance. We start with statutory exemptions. Those are absolute. They're declared by the legislature. It doesn't matter how environmentally impactful your project is. If it fits within the four corners of a statutory exemption, no environmental review. We then move on to categorical exemptions, which are qualified exemptions. And that means that there are a list of criteria outlined in the regulations adopted by the natural resources agency, not by the legislature. And those exceptions to the exemptions say if any of these factors are in play, even if you meet the four corners of the exemption, you can't use it because there's

something that's potentially significant in light of the fact that you trigger one of these these uh exceptions that's going to push you toward having to do an initial study. So categorical exemptions are qualified. They're not absolute. And then there's the common sense exemption, which is essentially a play on the definition of what is a project. If there is no possibility that the action that you're about to take would result in an environmental impact, you can rely upon the common sense exemption. So let's say that you've you've gone through that analysis and you've said, okay, none of the exemptions applies, none in SQA, none in any other body of law. You move to an initial study. The purpose of an initial study is to do a first pass at the project to see where you might where the project might have environmental effects that require mitigation. If your initial study shows that the project would have either no impact or all less than significant impacts, then you know you're preparing a negative declaration. And that negative declaration is just saying no impacts. On the other hand, if you have an initial study that shows that you need mitigation to reduce an impact to a less than significant level, you're preparing a mitigated negative declaration. And then finally, if your initial study shows you have a significant unavoidable impact, you're doing an EIR. And that's what is going to be outlined in these next couple of slides on analyzing impacts. I included a little bit more detail in case you want to go back and reference these slides. you'll have it there um on at your fingertips. So, let's talk a little bit about environmental impact reports. This is an overview of the EIR process. EIRS are um the most labor intensive and they tend

to be the longest documents. Why is that? It is because there are multiple steps built into the environmental review process to allow for the public to engage in the development of the analysis going into the document. So we start with a notice of preparation telling the world we're going to do this. We then scope that EIR and consult with responsible and trustee agencies after we've given the public notice. We then prepare a draft EIR for public review. it goes out on the street. Once that happens, uh, we get comments back from the public in written form. We review those written comments. We respond to them in writing. We prepare what's called a final EIR and then the project and the EIR come forward to the decision makers for um, consideration and action. So, an EIR um is laborious not only because of that process that I just outlined, but because of the contents of the EIR. There are specific things that the law requires we address in in this type of a document. We have to have a summary of the proposed actions and consequences, a robust project description because that sets the foundation for the analysis. We have to describe the existing conditions that are likely to change as a result of the project. Then we evaluate the impacts. We talk about how the project might induce growth, whether there are cumulative impacts associated with the project. And then importantly, whether there are alternatives that the pro to the project's um significant and unavoidable impacts that would allow the decision-making opportunity for something other than what was originally proposed by the applicant or by the public agency.

So these are areas um that are unique or topical areas that are unique to EIRS that are not included in M andds again also making the EIR more laborious um significant effects that can't be avoided irreversible environmental damages and then I also I mentioned the last three already so findings of fact are required under the public resourc versus our code for each of the project's significant impacts. The findings of fact are critical to your decision makingaking process. Findings of fact explain your reasoning with respect to how it is that you're concluding an impact is either less than significant, requires mitigation, or is significant and unavoidable. um staff does a very good job of preparing findings of fact for you to review that methodically goes through every impact in an environmental impact report and explains the rationale behind each of those findings. Um the reason we structure findings in this way is not um to give you you know volumes of documents because we think that is fun um to either prepare or for you to read but instead because we have case law where the court has said courts need the administrative record to connect the dots. We as judges cannot sit up at the dis and secondguess the rationale that you as a decision-making body engaged in when you were you know hearing the testimony reviewing the documents etc. So in order for us to give deference in order for us judges to give deference to the public agency we need you to outline your

thinking connect the dots from A to B. So that is why those findings tend to be so bulky um because we're helping you know helping the court along in the event that we end up before a court um to understand the rationale. Now in the EIR context we also have an obligation um to identify significant and unavoidable impacts of a project. SQUA does not allow for a public agency to approve a project that has significant and unavoidable impacts unless the public agency adopts a statement of overriding considerations. The statement of overriding considerations is basically your balancing act. It's what you as a public agency are saying the benefits are of the project that you think outweigh the environmental impacts. So it might be, hey, we see that this new housing project has a potentially significant air quality impact during the construction period because we are going to exceed socks and knocks threshold criteria pollutant thresholds. Okay, we know that exceeded in those um air quality criteria pollutant thresholds can correlate to health effects. So, you're going to say in your statement of overriding considerations, if you were to believe that the value of that housing project outweighed the environmental risk during the construction period, that the need for housing in your community is is great. you have a reena allocation of X Y or Z, this project would help to further your satisfaction of that reena allocation.

It would further allow for, you know, the community to build upon existing roots and, you know, maybe it's step up housing that you're providing or something of the like. and the value of that to the community outweighs the temporary significant impact that would occur during the construction period with respect to those two criteria pollutants. So it's that analysis that you're doing. So, whenever a statement of overrides comes to you as a planning commission, if you are the the decision-making body, you want to make sure that you're focusing honing in on that statement of overrides to to see if you really think that we've hit on all of the benefits of the project that in your mind outweigh those significant effects. On the other hand, if you're looking at that project and you say, you know, this project not only has that significant and unavoidable construction impact, but it also has a significant and unavoidable um air quality operational impact and we also know there are water quality issues. when I start to think about those compounded impacts um to public health, I might have more of a concern about that and maybe there's, you know, an alternative that was presented that might make the outcome less impactful. Right? So then in that situation, you may say to yourself, I don't think that the benefits of the project outweigh the significant effects. In fact, I think it's the reverse. And then you would have a situation where you would not be inclined to adopt that statement of overrides. And then you would have to figure out whether um you recommend that staff go back to the drawing board and work with the applicant to come up with some alternative um or to pursue one of the alternatives that was identified in the EIR to strike a a clearer balance.

So, um, you may be thinking like, okay, do have we had any projects recently in Lake Forest where we've done statement of overrides? Um, none in the immediate past, but we have had many projects in Lake Forest where we've adopted signific statements of overriding considerations. And each of these statement of overrides was adopted not by the planning commission, but by the city council. Planning commission did review these statements for the general plan for Baker Ranch, for Pollola Center. These these are just a few examples. We have many more um where this has been the case. Um what we are seeing as a trend in the industry right now is that a lot of projects um if they are not screened out screened out of VMT are tripping up on significant VMT impacts. And when we identify significant VMT impacts, it can be very difficult to identify mitigation that we can say will feasibly get the project to a less than significant level. And so you off we're seeing um projects bubble up with this, you know, significant and unavoidable VMT impact um that's just difficult to address. And part of that, a large part of that is that um the structure for VMT um is really geared more toward land land use clustering um as opposed to, you know, true environmental impact analysis. um trying to force the clustering of of uses together or around transit um as opposed to just looking at you know straight impacts that cars have um on

roadways and on the air. Um okay. So with that that is my presentation. I'm happy to answer any questions. Like I said it that was like train you know bullet train speed. um and here um at any point in time when you have enlarge environmental documents that come forward to support you um as needed. That's wonderful. Thank you so much. Do any commissioners have questions they would like to ask? I have one. Sure, sir. Alicia, great job. Thank you for that. Um one question in regards to the EIR. Is there an expiration date on ERS?

Fantastic question. No, there's not an expiration date on ERS. So when an EIR is given for like an area of a city and say 10 years down the line that you now want to develop a a hotel in that area or a a business park in that area and you utilize that 10-year-old EIR and environmental groups come out and challenge, does that typically land in court or

you know it it depends. um it can land in court, but there is a process specifically outlined in the statute and in the regs for streamlining subsequent environmental review in situations where you have a base EIR. And the statute and the regs are clear that the public agency shall not require further environmental review for a project for which an EI has already been certified unless one of three conditions is present. There's new information changes in circumstances or changes in the project. Any one of the three that would lead to a significant increase in the severity of an impact that was previously disclosed or an identification of the need for new or different mitigation or alternatives than were previously analyzed. So if any of those three criteria are present, then you may have to go down the pathway of preparing a subsequent or a supplemental EIR that builds off of that prior E

just on that specific like on VMT 10year-old data is going to be different than what people are going to challenge is occurring today potentially. That is actually a unique um issue area. So, we have a case of the um fourth district DCA uh district court of appeal here, our controlling district court of appeal involving the city of Newport Beach and the Olan Properties um project off of Vonarman and it's just off of Vonarman. and I forget the cross street but um in that case the question was in a subsequent environmental review scenario was the lead agency required to do a VMT analysis when the base EIR did LOS?

Okay.

And the court said no. The reason being that under public resources code 21166 the analysis has to be comparative. You're looking at the delta, the difference between the impacts that were disclosed in the first document and the impacts that your project modification will have. So in order to disclose those impacts, you need an applesto apples comparison. So loss to loss. So in that particular case, the city had done an LOS comparative analysis. And the challengers were saying, "Oh, no, no, no, no, you should have done BMT." And the court said absolutely not because you need to be able to compare apples to apples. But otherwise um you know there there there's other case law with regard to GHGs and some other issue areas where courts are aligned with that thinking. So a mere change in regulation or approach doesn't necessarily trigger the need to do a a new analysis. But if the base had done VMT and you're coming back with a use that would significantly change that VMT and result in a higher impact, then yes, you would go the pathway of a subsequent or a supplemental EIR.

Perfect. And then just for staff, Gail, the Meadows, there's an EIR that is recently been completed in that area. Yes, there was a EIR for the Meadows development. Okay, thank you. That's it. Appreciate it. Chair, anybody else have a followup? So on so in that project example, so you we plan for it, it's it's in the data and then 10 years later change circumstances are things that happen around it. So when that analysis was done on a cumulative basis, there was little around it for for example 10 years later's a lot more around it. So how does the cumulative impacts trip that?

The cumulative impacts can trip that. So if there is a significant change in circumstances that would result in an incremental increase in the impact that alone wouldn't be significant but together is significant then you could have a new impact that you would have to mitigate.

So if the project had the impacts identified as X Every other project coming in around it is going to be analyzing their specific project with the cumulative impacts including projected cumulative impacts which include the entitlements of that particular project that hasn't been built yet. This one gets built this these others get built. They they do the analysis with this project built into their analysis. Yes. Now the project comes into being. the cumulative impacts are a lot greater, but the project hasn't changed and the cumulative impacts that have been subsequently analyzed since are included. So why would that project trip?

That project would not trip because if that project is not changing, you're not making any modifications to it. You're not requesting a discretionary permit that just moves. It continues to move forward. But if you're making a modification to that project and and you are changing it in some meaningful way, you're relying upon a document that didn't assume all of those other uses around it. So by virtue of the change that you're making to that project, you are opening up for having to consider all of that change that has occurred around. So, but if the if it's so, for example, if it's a a housing subdivision or uh that's actually has comparable or less dwelling units attached, that wouldn't necessarily trip that. If you included more density, then perhaps because you have traffic counts, air quality on the rest,

industrial community, uh if the if an industrial um uh project is is proposed and it's generally the same same square footage, you know, massing, etc. That doesn't necessarily trip that correct either. Correct. That's correct. Yes. And then just some other questions. So you mentioned earlier about it being what kind of document it is. So information. So once again justform informationational or policy. Informationational. Yes. And so it leads to policy decisions but it's information for those policies. So in the so in in the years that have transpired over the last few decades, how has SQA changed in that regard?

Well, it has changed in in in that regard. It hasn't changed. So it is still anformational document but the way that the infformational document has changed is that the analysis has become more and more technical more and more critical. So what I mean by that is in the early days of SQA, you know, late 70s, early 80s, you would see EIS and NEG decks that were, you know, 40 50 pages and it was just a series of conclusions, just a series of answers like no, the project would not impact a scenic vista. No, the project would not um impact a resource um that is threatened, endangered, or candidate species. No, the project wouldn't impact a jurisdictional water. Um, but over time, those conclusory statements have been tested in almost all of the environmental categories. And so, what has become very clear is that in providing the information, the agency has to explain why it's reaching that conclusion. Why are you not impacting a scenic vista? Why will the project not have light and glare impacts? So on and so forth through all 20 of the categories. Um so you'll see a lot more technical reports attached to ERS and M &Ds in today's world than you did even 10 years ago.

How many of those kinds how many of those technical reports are regarding hard data type analysis versus subjective analysis? Well, your hard data analyses will be in the form of air quality, GHG, noise, um, transportation, utilities, things you can count,

things you can count, uh, the more amorphous or more difficult things, more subjective um, impact areas which can be measured, but they're just more on the subjective side rather than purely numerical. Um, are aesthetics. um cultural resources, um land use and planning, public services. So you have a mixed bag of pure numbers and more subjective. So it's true that squa is used as a weapon. Mhm. It is.

And it's a convenient and easy weapon relatively to use. It's cheap to file a lawsuit against anything any any project for a for a variety of reasons whether it's it's legitimate in a lot of cases legitimate and in others are meant to leverage help hold up etc. It's been used as a weapon and because of the time frames and such.

So how do we as a body protect the city against challenges? Because we we've done the analysis. We we've made the recommendations. it goes up to whether it's it's our uh goes up to city council for on our recommendation for approval one way or the other. But how do how do we how do we best give that um that analysis and and recommendations to the city council to guard the city against a uh having to to or an applicant for that matter having to fight that?

It's a great question. Um so no SQA document is ever going to be 100% bulletproof. It's just it's impossible. And SQA doesn't expect perfection. The courts don't expect perfection. So what you can do as a body is really look to see whether there is substantial evidence to support the conclusions in the document and in the findings. And what do I mean by substantial evidence? I mean facts. Reasonable assumptions predicated on facts. Expert opinions predicated on facts. So it's facts. It's just it's really kind of using the facts and explaining the rationale. And if you see that there are clear explanations that satisfy your mind as an intelligent, reasonable person, you probably are dealing with substantial evidence in the document itself. If you're scratching your head and going, "Huh?" Like, "What what does this mean? What does what did that say?" You might have a problem. Um because again, you're an intelligent, reasonable person. And if you can't understand it, a judge isn't going to understand it. So that's what you can do with respect to the document that's within your control. You can ask staff questions in advance um about the agenda materials, about the documents during public review. Um and then when you are presented with um community input to think critically about that community input and what's being shared with you. If you get a comment letter um or somebody comes up to this podium and is sharing their thoughts about what they've reviewed, thinking critically about, okay, is this person presenting data that is undercutting our analysis or saying we left something out. If they are saying that, then we should say, "Okay, well, we've got to go back and fix that because that's our opportunity, and that's the way that we're supposed this process is supposed to work so that we

can avoid that lawsuit." Um, but even if you do your best in both of those ways, on your side and hearing from what's on this side coming toward you, you still may not be able to stop that lawsuit. And so what staff is really good at doing here in Lake Forest is putting forth tremendous effort on really shoring up that substantial evidence. So what they are presenting to you is really strong putting you in a strong position so that we get the best defensive posture if we do get challenged. So with all of that, it's become in fashion these days for the state to come in and say, "We want to put in these exemptions all over the place because you local cities and counties aren't doing your jobs is what they're essentially what they're telling us." Even though we're sitting here saying, "Hey, we we we're trying to preserve local control, but they're coming down and saying we have you have no authority to to demand a SQA study of any kind on this kind of C c or exempted type of type of uh land use because it's located near transit station or you know, etc., etc., etc." So is that the state coming down and saying seek was broken, it's not working, and now we have to have all these little patchwork quilts of exceptions all over the place.

I think it is the state's way of acknowledging that SQA for housing projects has in the state's mind stalled out many good projects that probably shouldn't have been stalled out. it and they're looking for ways to expedite the production of housing. And so since they see SQUA as one of those impediments, they're trying to find ways to remove that impediment. And so what they do is they say, "Oh, this decision that you're going to make under this fill-in- thelank SB 35, um, you know, uh, SB130, you know, just fill them in. you're gonna if you're you're approving a project under 2479 then it's ministerial no SQA

right um so yes there is some of that going on but at present those bills are um all focused on housing projects right um so for now for now exactly

so the last question has to do with something else you brought up and and so and staff may want to chime in this but the the the whole concept of BMT BMT has now become become a much bigger issue especially with the passage of AB130 and and SB131 last year um for those exemptions but now what it basically does is it it puts the burden of BMT on you know I'll call it medium and longer range you know commute areas for for for um people commuting back to job centers so BMT and Lake for how does that apply here in Lake Forest as compared to some a jurisdiction in the Inland Empire, for example.

Good question. Um, so here in Lake Forest, um, well, with BMT in particular, we adopted our VMT thresholds. And in adopting our VMT thresholds back in 2020, staff was very, um, thoughtful about the the types of projects that would potentially qualify for screening under our local thresholds. And so many projects, not all, but many projects in um our city do screen out under our thresholds. For the projects that do not screen out, um they are projects that either a are a regional draw, right? They're pulling trips in from the Inland Empire or other regions, San Diego, LA. Um or not as likely pushing trips out. Um we don't have a lot of those and so

so just an just a small example what would be one of of those theor pro shop in Irvine. Yes. Okay. Okay. People would drive 60 80 miles to get there because there's not another one. So that's an example. Okay. Yeah. All the way up to Rancho Cukamonga. Very good. Well, Alicia, thank you very much. I appreciate you. But well done. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you again. We have your email address right there. We do. Reach out anytime. No problem. Thank you so much.

All right. At this time, members of the public may address the commission regarding matters not on the agenda within the jurisdiction of the planning commission. Comments shall be limited to three minutes per person. If you would like to make a comment, please fill out a speaker card and submit it to the commission secretary. The speaker cards are available at the agenda review table by the entrance. Madame commission secretary, have we received any speaker cards for non-aggendaized items? I have not received any this evening. All right, then. This is the time for the commission to consider matters listed under the consent calendar. Have we received any comments from members of the public on the consent calendar? then received.

Right. Do commissioners wish to discuss this item or is there a motion to approve a consent calendar? I'll move it. I'll second. All right. Sorry. I might just add that I was not at up here at the meeting, but I was out there and I have learned that I can vote because I did attend the meeting. There you go. Go Costco. Thanks for sharing. Go Costco. Motion passes unanimously. All right. Wonderful. Thank you. I'll now open the public hearing for item four and director Gail Arian will introduce this item.

This item is a use permit for the operation of a create creative outlet performing arts center, a dance training facility in an existing business park in Foothill Ranch. And Jennifer Maner has a report this evening. Good evening, chair and commissioners, and welcome back, Commissioner Fentes. Um, this item is a use permit for Creative Outlet Performing Arts Center. This is a dance training facility proposed to be located at an existing tenant space in a business park located on Burbank in Foothill Ranch. The facility provides competitive dance training for various dance styles and has three competitive dance teams. The business has a musical theater conservity conservancy class which is held currently held two times a week. The applicant also proposes birthday parties at the facilities on the weekends with a maximum of 20 children. The dancers at the facility range in age from 2 years old to 18. The proposed hours of operation are from 3 to 8:30 p.m. Monday through Friday and on Saturdays from 9:00 a.m. to noon. The graphic on the screen shows a typical schedule for the dance studio with the maximum number of students for each class. Although the younger dancers may only stay for a single class, older dancers stay for multiple dance style classes and are at the studio training for long periods of time. Parents of the dancers are encouraged to drop off their dancers and pick them up at the end of their dance training. The first floor of the dance training facility includes three dance studios, a reception area, a lobby, and two restrooms. The second floor of the business includes offices, a restrooms, and a storage area. Can we get some water? Sorry.

This site is zoned industrial in the foothill ranch plan community. Excuse me, I started getting a cold today. Based on the business operations, staff has determined that the dance training facility is considered an indoor athletic facility in the city's zoning code. Indoor athletic facilities are allowed in the zoning district with planning commission approval of a use permit. I'll finish the presentation. The city's code does not have parking standard for an indoor athletic facility. As such, the zoning code allows a parking standard to be established by the planning commission. In 2015, the city's planning commission approved a site development permit for a very similar dance training facility. The training facility provided a parking study that created a parking ratio which is shown on the screen. The parking ratio is based on the number of students, instructors, and employees that are at the facility at any one time. The same parking requirement was also applied to a recent use permit for another similar dance training facility approved by the planning commission in 2023. The subject tenant space is allotted 21 parking stalls in the business park. Based on the number of parking stalls and the application of the parking ratio, the business may have up to 45 students, instructors, or employees at the facility at any one time. Based on the 2015 parking study, the city's staff analysis of the project, city staff has recommended conditions of approval for the for this project related to parking, including restricting the occupancy of the facility to 45 students, instructors, andor employees. Staggering end and start times of the

dance studios. restricting recital, competitions or tournaments at the facility, and a condition that if there is a parking issue in the future, the applicant shall initiate measures to remedy the parking issue. The subject, excuse me, the subject business park is surrounded by industrial buildings and is not adjacent to any residential properties. The business use as proposed and conditioned meets the city's parking requirements will be conducted completely within the interior of the building and there are parking stalls located adjacent to the building which will facilitate dancers being dropped off and picked up in a manner that will not conflict with vehicular and truck traffic. Furthermore, the peak hours of operation of the proposed facility is in the evenings when some of the adjacent businesses are closed. As such, it's anticipated that the proposed dance facility will be compatible with other businesses in the business park. Accordingly, the proposed dance training facility as conditioned is in compliance with the city's zoning code requirements and will be compatible with the surrounding uses. Staff is recommending that the planning commission approve the use permit and adopt the corresponding resolution. The applicant for the project is in the audience tonight and we'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

I have not received any public comment. All right, perfect. Applicant would like to speak. You're there.

Yeah, I'm here. Hi. Uh, we actually hold some of our uh recitals here, so it's nice to see it set up in its true form. It's very uh very different. Usually we see it behind the curtain and the kids are always so curious. Um I will uh thank you Jennifer. You've been wonderful through this whole process. Super helpful. Um so I really appreciate your expertise. Um I live in Lake Forest and I've had my studio. This is our seventh season and it's just an amazing community to grow in and everyone it's uh I was like in awe our first recital at just how much support these kids in the community had and it just feels good to to see um just good families good you know giving into their kids and I will speak honestly and candidly there were some minor parking issues in the beginning but I asked the neighboring business. I said, "Can you take a picture, please, so I can find out who it is, and I promise I'll solve it." It was my husband. Every time he came to pick up the kids, I was like, "I'm going to kill him." I shouldn't have said that on record, but I did. But no, he's still alive and well. He put our girls to bed tonight. So, anyways, the issue was resolved very quickly. Um, but that was the only issue that we've had in the center, and the neighbors are all really, really kind. So, I'm uh very happy with our current location. And that's it.

Wonderful. Thank you. And I'm happy to hear about your husband. He's still living. Um, so do any commissioners, um, do any And you'll be available for questions, I heard. Correct. Yes. Okay, perfect. Do any commissioners have questions or comments that they would like to make? Vwok. Oh. Oh, he's so youite. He's very polite, unlike me, I So, I just have a question for staff. Um, do you see any differences in this particular project compared to the one that we approved in 2023?

Um, it's it's very similar in nature. Um, she does it's a little bit bigger site um bigger tenant space and um she does have the uh how do I call it? uh her theater conservancy class that the other one didn't have, but generally it's it's a competitive dance um facility. So, it's very similar in nature. Thank you, Commissioner Vw Walk.

Thank you, Chair. Um either for um Jennifer or Amy, depending on how you're feeling at the time. Um what are what is the parking requirements for a birthday party venue? Like if we were to say it's something similar to like that business off a dimension or pump it up. Um the city doesn't have a birthday party um parking requirement. So we do look at them case by case. So what would one of those be?

I mean they've been there a really long time. I'm not sure that pump it up what their parking was, but they're both an industrial building. So they're probably similar. Most of our our industrial buildings are at about one to one space for every 333 square feet. Okay. Um so they're probably similar.

Okay. Perfect. And then what constitutes a dance studio in regards to the municipal code when it comes to parking? Um so in the past we have um decided that a recreational dance studio is different in operation than some of these competitive dance training facilities. And so the use permit that we did originally I think it was in 2015 um we kind of had a big so the original the original parking study um had a whole discussion about how it was different than that. Um, you know, sometimes we get these recreational studios and they very much are how many kids can we pack in there and um they have maybe a recital, but they're not competitively dancing where they need a lot more room and where they restrict the number of students in the class. Um and so starting with that first one, um we did make the determination that this was a little bit different in that um they limit the number of students in their classes because they have these competitive dance um training facilities that they need more room and they also I think they don't I think the teams don't want huge numbers. They have to have a smaller number for their teams.

So so recreational classes kind of trigger that alignment. Yeah. So in our code we have dance studios and we have athletic facilities and so we have for these for the last three that we've we've done we have um said that there are um athletic facilities not dance studios. Okay. So then can you go back to slide I think it was three or four on the schedule. So my concern here is that on every day of the week it states recreational classes. that exact definition that you gave that it should align with the dance studio parking requirement.

So, I mean, I think all three that I've done all had recreational classes and they're mostly for the younger students who are not competitively dancing yet. Um, so similar to all three of them, I believe all three had a component of that. Um, but as you can see, like especially in hers, she has a very limited number of students. And I mean, she can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's really for the younger students that are So, the last one that we brought before the schedule that was placed in the agenda report had no recreational classes.

I believe she also had younger students and she had um that weren't in and I I don't have the report. This is from my memory so I don't have the report with me but I believe she also had um younger students that were in uh recreational more recreational type classes as well because I think she went from all the same like three or four to older but again this with the younger students you're looking at smaller classes. Okay. Um if this was to be approved tonight how long does it typically take before the business can operate at the location with this use permit? In this case, she is already operating.

How is that? So, so it is a code enforcement case and she's in operation currently. So, shouldn't that be part of this report, Jennifer? Like, how is that not in here? If I could ask the city attorney. uh chair I I or I believe there was a reference that somewhere I recall reading in the staff report and I could locate it that it did note that they were in operation. Um

yeah I think um in the project description I say however the business has since moved and is currently operating from the 27142 Burbank location. But the code enforcement case, ma'am, I don't think it's technically a code enforcement case um because she's been working with us and in this case, she actually submitted the use permit before she moved to her location. So, did we as staff or you as staff instruct that you can't operate until you're through the process and receive a use permit? Um, is that part of the typical process?

Uh, typically for this kind of use, as long as they're working with staff, we do not uh stop the business. um as long as they're working with staff, but if they get to a point where they're not following, we give them time periods and things like that um then we have allowed them to. So you issue like without the planning commission's decision like a administrative like verbal approval to continue? No. And what is it Amy? They're able to operate as Jennifer indicated if they're working with us. we continue to keep them moving through the process. And do we treat everybody the same that goes through this process?

No, we have discretion as far as when someone's working with us and as indicated in this case, she was had applied through the process and was working through it. And the pause is because I had a baby and then I I'm sorry, ma'am. I didn't I didn't ask any questions. Thank you, though. Okay, I'm done. Thank you. questions sir.

So in just looking at the the aerial I think it's on page two of that section. So those are those are the parcel lines or between the actual properties. Is it I I saw I saw that you had the an parking analysis talked about there's there's parking that's shared throughout. Is there a reciprocal parking agreement between the businesses? Yeah, so these are considered um industrial condominiums and so that they have an association there and they share the parking in common. And so based upon based upon the operating hours,

the only time that there's really a conflict is that is the last couple two or three hours of the day you as far as peak use of the parking lots. So everything after that is pretty much wide open as from from practice practical standpoint. Um I I I agree with with uh Commissioner Vilwok that that from a from a procedural standpoint, we probably have to should talk about how we're do dealing with with non-conforming uses that are coming back and back and this is not directed at you and the use and and maybe a better job of educating our our businesses around the the the city of and those coming in what the requirements are. Um, I'm not exactly sure how to do that, but that's that's more of a a um a internal procedural issue that uh that we should probably address because I agree that it should have been stated in here a little bit more more uh directly. Um, but that's all the questions I have. Thank you.

I have one question for you. I I had an office that was next to a dance studio. Uh, do you encourage the parents to stick around in the parking lot while their kids are performing or do they you encourage them not to be there? For our age five and under, we do want them on site in case the children have to go to the bathroom. We don't want our staff necessarily going into restrooms with children. Uh, but for the older ones, we uh encourage them to go run errands, go read a book, go to Target, go get your nails done. let the kids, it's it's hard enough that they're around their peers and with their coaches, but then to turn and have their mom staring at them or their dad. So, we really encourage them to separate and let the kids focus on their craft during that time

because my only concern is that if if their the parents are out there occupying the parking lot, in the sense you have more than 45 people. Oh, definitely. The location though is great in that where we were in the Ralph's parking lot, there's tons of restaurants and facilities and targets right across the street and there's lots to do in the area. So, it it is more encouraging for them to to leave the property than to just stare at a concrete wall in the parking. Well, thank you for answering that question. Of course. Thank you. All right. I have a couple questions. Yes.

Um I think we cleared. I have a the use permit. Um, and not having it, that's a big question. Obviously, the duration of time I think is also a question because if I'm understanding this correctly, it was the application came in in February 2025 and we're sitting here in March of 2026. That's and we've been I would I understand I appreciate the comment. I think it was the pregnancy that you mentioned as well. Did the studio operate during the the pregnancy? Did the studio? Yes, I have staff that operates the studio. But nobody working on the use permit. Is that

correct? I'm the sole owner. I don't have investors or partners. So that's why it got POS. And I do I'm not to like pull it in your heartstrings, but I do have a four-year-old that has Down syndrome. So in addition to a business and a pregnancy and an expansion, I still have her therapies. And it's just it's a lot. and I don't have a partner. So, that's why things got pushed to the site.

There you go. Um, thank you. The Let me have to read my questions really quickly. The Okay. So then I agree with Commissioner Greyel and Commissioner Vilwok, Commissioner Vilwok in regard to the process because it seems like it leaves us when it's so discretionary. It seems like it potentially opens us up for claims of not treating companies similarly. Now, that's just an observation and something that I think Commissioner Greyel already addressed along with Commissioner Billwalk in regards to looking at a process and what that looks like because the last thing we want to do is open for um liability especially for allowing the the the company to operate for 12 months while that process is delayed. Um I have a question about the parking um employers. It specif uh in the document um it specifies specifically that employers, instructors and students and that's the cap. However, the younger the parents are um encouraged to stay for the younger children. Correct.

Yes. And most of those classes are at the 5:15 5:30 which is when all of our neighboring businesses are closed. Absolutely. And then but I think if I'm not mistaken it was occupancy of the building that is specified as employers, instructors and students. Is that correct? 45. Yeah, 45. I apologize. Right. That's just related for parking though related to the parking. That would be the maximum number of students, instructors, and that's just how the original um parking study was was drafted. Okay. Um but uh yeah, it's it could just be occupants. Yeah. occupants in Yeah. But it's not like a building occupancy through the building department.

Understood. Then what what what uh what is it serving here? The 45. What purpose is it serving here? Oh, strictly parking. Strictly parking. Okay. Yeah. It's it's based on the number of parking spaces of which then parents should probably be included in it. Is that fair? I think they assume that if a child's been there that they've been taken by an adult. So they don't double count the child and the adult. Okay. But not a lot of teens in. All right. Um thank you for that. Birth. I have a question about birthday parties. Yeah.

Um I think it's wonderful. First of all, I know that there's a limit of um the number of parties that can go on that can occur at a time at one time. I believe it's limited to one. One. Um and there's a 15minute spread if there's one immediately following it. Is that Oh. Yeah, I I run the birthday parties, so it's one. All right, that's perfect. Well, that was my question. Actually, there's two two quest two parts to this two components. And one is it's limited to 20 uh 20 guests.

20 guests. Correct. And then it's also limited to a single party. Now, is are those conditions because they're in the the conditions for approval. Were those stip were those request or were those requested by the city or did you develop those on your own? Um in the description it just said list everything that you do. Okay. So this is what we do and they're only on the weekends. So you cap it at 20 and you only want Yes, I don't want to. I didn't. My purpose behind the question is I'm assuming everyone has kids.

No, I understand. My purpose behind the question was was it an artificial limitation on the business that wasn't necessary because the parking is there on the weekends. The capacity is there. It's more to set up and clean up and it's it's truly So, it was all you. That's what I'm hearing. It was all you. Yeah. I don't want another I don't want to buy another folding table and get more benches. No, it's all me. It's wonderful. Thank you. Um, other Let me mark off my questions here. Make sure I got them all. So, there was not a code enforcement because it was originally it stated it, but there was never turned into a code enforcement because she was working. Correct.

So, I worked with code enforcement on the process because she, as I said, she did submit the use permit before she moved because I went to the old location. Um, but she kind of never came back and so I didn't involve code enforcement when I realized she had moved. Um, and then she came back through the process. And so I don't know if it's like if you called I don't know if it was official case because we were dealing with it through the entitlement process. And so it's documented in my um correspondence with her as part of my process. So I don't know if it was technically a case through code enforcement, but it is documented through my process um and emails to her. Okay, perfect. Thank you. I just want to make the clarification.

Mr. Chair, I think there's a way forward here. If I could just make a couple recommendations. Um, so I I disagree with staff's recommendation that it doesn't align with the dance studio piece and that it would trigger the 40 parking spots based on the I think it's now 200 square ft of space within the facility um would be 40 parking spaces as opposed to 20 or 21 that the discretionary piece I guess allows for. And I think that if they're they are operating a lot of the time outside of when the other businesses are present, I think to be fair and consistent in the process that if the applicant could get that from their HOA that they could have 40 parking spots assigned to them that I think that that is possible to move forward. I mean, you even mentioned there's some parking there's a one little parking piece from your husband. So, but aside from that, parking is a big deal. And, you know, I do know that parents tend to stay longer than they always plan to or even if they're not in the studio, they're still in the parking spot waiting. It happens. And and you're in a a space that's not around a lot of residential, and those other businesses that are listed there really close before like the height of most of your classes,

they're usually 4 430. Yeah. So, I think that that is a way forward that we could do um to move forward. And then I would also um like to recommend that maybe there's some spacing between the classes that have been required for other studios as well. The 15-minute gap between the classes. This one says that no more than two studios at one time shall have a start or end time at the same. I think it should just be consistent throughout that that 15-minute gap allows for the the parking to empty out and the new parents to come in. And I think that that is something that could be also included in the um the directives here.

Yeah. Oh, sorry. Yes. Thank you. So, with regards to the parking, it's very specific that if there is a problem that Gail will take care of it. So, um, having the HOA come up with 40 spots could possibly be something that are the that Gail takes care of. Um, a 15-minute gap. Again, that's something that if there's a problem that staff could take care of. It's it's it's clear that we have that ability. I I think that if we are going to delay this at any point because we want to get 40 spots from an HOA that could take three or four months and then come back and and I I very pro business and I don't want to see a business woman to be sent home tonight because we didn't put something in there. But we did. And what we did is we said if there's a problem, staff is going to take care of it.

But there's a municipal code that governs specific use and parking requirements that we have. And so it's following the rules that are in play currently. It's not about not being pro business or being pro business. It's about following the rules that currently exist within the municipal code and and holding everybody to the same standard. Okay. I thought staff said that they have discretion in in this sort of thing just like they had discretion in 2023 when your little girls were up here so cute and getting approval for their dance studio. Um so and they all should be held to the same standard.

I'm going to ask if we could clear excuse me real quickly. I'm going to ask if we can clear whether clear up whether or not there is a conflict and we have the between the discret the code and the discretionary um approach that is being recommended tonight. Um, chair and commissioners, what's before you uh in in terms of parking is that um and it it lays out and I think this was uh described by staff in the oral report and the staff report of how this particular one is in staff's view being seen as not I think a dance studio but as more of an indoor training facility or dance training facility. Um and so um at least in staff's recommendation, you know, if it's a dance training facility, then there is a provision um of the of the municipal code that provides the director of community development to determine the number of off- streetet parking spaces if the particular use is not described in the municipal code. So that's how um the city has analyzed it. Um certainly this planning commission could you know look at that and uh either concur or not concur to to determine whether it should be a different categor categorization. However, um there is a provision in the code 9.168070B that does address, you know, u uses that are not specified in the municipal code.

How do you think that is it reconciles with the fact that the it is a dance studio? There is there are parking requirements for dance studios, correct? And I know it's it's being categorized as an athletic facility. The the reality is it is a dance studio in some respects. Most respects I would assume. So how does that dancers are athletes? Athletic athletic. Somebody said something I apologize. I just said athletes.

This is the third time we've used this and it was based on the parking study from the first one and they all are very similar in nature. Um and so we were really using that precedent from the other two use permits um to base the parking on it. Um and with the same explanation that you know um that these studios don't need as much parking as we require in our in our parking code. It really depends how they operate. Right. So we think that in this case that it operates very similar to the other two that we have approved with that parking standard. Sure. Yes sir. Commissioner Greyball. So, so in in the report, in the staff report, there was a letter that was submitted uh by you that that you got from your association that they reviewed your plans and approved your plans.

Yes. And specifically referenced parking as a part of that approval. So So your association has said, "We want you to be there and we're going to work with you on the parking within." They said, "As long as there's no issues with my neighbors." So, so with that, you already have we already have somebody that has a on-site vested interest to make sure the parking works or not. So, there's there's already a private property owner who's also al also self-p policing this. So, I look at that as that's probably as effective or more so than what we're doing here. So, I don't have an issue with the parking at all. Thank you.

And so, uh I when when appropriate, I'm going to make a motion to approve this thing and and get to a vote. Okay. So, no more discussion. We're good. All right. So, this is a time. Excuse me. I'm going to close the public hearing. Do we have any motions to consider before approving this item? I make a motion recommended by staff recommendation. Do we have a second? I'll be happy to second it. Thank you.

All right. Before you vote, chair, I just have some comments if I can. So, I'm not going to be in favor for this because of business. It's not because I don't love dance studio. I hate to delay it. I don't even think you have to delay it. All I think is that we have to get that letter from the HOA saying you have 40 parking spots during that time where the businesses aren't even there. Be specific on during what time? Like just my operating hours. Correct. And do you want them to have 27142 reserved painted on the stalls? No, not at all. just the letter that says that says you have allocation of 40 parking spaces. Okay.

And during that time, which it looks like the business is pretty vacant during a majority of those hours. So, I wouldn't assume that would be an issue. And that way we can be consistent to what's required. I know that's not the motion at hand, but I just wanted to explain myself to you so you understand where I'm coming from is that there's consistency and there is also specific things in the municipal code that I disagree with staff on. Okay. All right, let's vote. Well, let's be clear though. We're not asking you to go to your HOA and get 40 spots with this particular motion. No, that was that was his opinion and it's not a part of the motion. I was ready to write an email. Thank you for that cuz I was like,

what do I need to do? And there was not a counter motion. So, I think that we are safe to vote. Let's do it. The motion passes for one with Commissioner Billwalk desenting. Now is let's see. Yeah, now is the time for the director's comments. Please Oh, I did. Did I miss something? I'm so sorry. item.

Oh, I thank you very much. That was a big Yes. Item five. I had it in my mind the other one was first and we Anyway, here we are. I will now open public hearing for item five and director Gail Arian will introduce this instead. Okay. Use permit for alcohol sales at Yoyo Golf located on Vista Terrace and Crara Solless has a staff report this evening.

Good evening, Commissioner, chair and commissioners. Yoyo Golf is a recreational facility that offers golf simulation and res received their approval for their use permit to operate back in 2024. This item before you tonight is a use permit for alcohol sales at YoYo Golf which is located within an existing facility at 26834 Terrace. Mrs. Harris on the screen you'll see the project location. The business is proposing to operate with a type 40 license from the California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control in an existing 8,229 square foot building within the Vista Terrace Business Park. During the pandemic, the California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control modified the type 40 license, which is for beer only to allow for off sale in addition to on sale. The applicant is only seeking approval for on sale and would not allow alcohol to be sold to go. In addition, staff is recommending a condition to prohibit offsale for this use and will has a condition to implement a security plan should in the future should issues related to the business arise. The business offers a variety of social activities such as karaoke and birthday parties in addition to golf training and is proposing to sell alcohol in order to provide amenities comparable to those offered by similar establishments in the city. As shown on the graphic to the right, the business will store beer to the adjacent in their snack bar area. Their hours of operation will be Monday through currently are Monday through Sunday 10:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. They'll only permit beer to be w consumed within the golf phase and in the first floor of the facility. Their employees will be trained to understand responsible service practices and ID verification.

All proposed activities are to take place only within the interior of the building. The general plan designation is light industrial as well as the zoning is also light industrial. The required it requires a use permit by planning commission to be able to sell with this type of alcohol license. The sale of alcohol would not conflict with the existing uses as they would only operate within the interior of their building. Moreever, there have been no problems reported since the use has since this original use has been established, beginning in operation in 2024. The proposal is consistent with the Lake Forest Municipal Code as approval of the use permit is not expected to cause traffic, noise, odors, or other impacts beyond what is typical for nearby industrial uses. In addition, no exterior building or site modifications are proposed. Accordingly, staff is recommending the planning commission approve the use permit and adopt the corresponding resolution. The business owner is in the audience and can provide answers to any questions. Thank you.

Right. Have we received any comments from members of the public on this item? I have not received any. Do any members of is the applicant here?

Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Do any members of the commission have questions or comments for discussion? I just have a comment. I think that um beer goes great with golf and I know that Gail and Jolene would agree as golfers and I think this is a a great place for that to be and I when appropriate would like to move this item. the Would the applicant like to say anything? Not required. All right, we'll move forward. Um, then I will close the public hearing. Do I have a motion to consider approving the item as recommended by staff?

I'd move the second. I'll second it. All right. Beer drinker. The motion passes unanimously. All right. Thank you. Now, deja vu. Is it time for um is it time for director's comments? It's that time. All right.

Um I just have um a short comment. I just wanted to let you know Sarah, this is her last planning commission meeting. She's accepted a position with the city of Buen Park, which apparently is 10 minutes away from her home. We're sorry. Um we're sorry we're losing her um and appreciate all the work she's done. And um in the audience is Tammy Nwin, who is um here at your last meeting. She gave the overview of the community development. Uh Tammy's been our intern and she's landed a wonderful uh full-time job with California Coastal Commission. And uh today is actually her last day, but she came because she really wanted to hear Alicia's presentation on SQA, so we wish her well.

All right. Wonderful. Does the city attorney have any comments? Thank you, chair commissioners. I do not. All right. Perfect. Thank you. Planning Commission comments? Commissioner Fuentes. Well, I just would say I'm glad to be back. Thank you for the nice welcome and all the reviews. look forward to serving with all of you. Wonderful. Thank you, Commissioner Luten.

I want to thank the people at BBK for that SQA presentation. That was very helpful. Always been a lot of mystery about that one. So, I appreciate you're clearing some of that up. Nice to see you back again, Hung. Missed you. I'd like to welcome Jolene back. I mean, it's been a while. We spent a lot of time together on this commission, so I'm glad to see her back. And congratulations to you on your new position, both of you. And I'm sure you'll do well. We'll miss you. Thanks to everybody else on the staff tonight for a good job. Commissioner Vilwalk.

Thank you, Chair. Uh thanks to BBK. Great presentation on SQA. Huge BBNK fan is their always guiding and providing the most, you know, best information for us to make decisions and super important. I'm sure staff also appreciates them. Um, just want to say that I I have concerns about the approvals uh before it comes to the planning commission and having um some um differences on thoughts of when that can take place and and the issues that it could lend itself to by if it's allowed now then when do you stop it? Is it a year? Is it two years? Is it six months? Is it three months? Is it discretionary at that point as well? I think that puts us into hot water and some concern on that. And also, I think we also have to acknowledge the fact that there are differences between some of the parking requirements, but when something is so blatant that it is a dance studio and the definition as described was have recreation classes that is on the submitted form, whether my colleagues agree or not, there's an issue for that and that's a problem that we need to be careful about. And um that's it. Thank you.

You vice chair. Greybel. Well, first off, I would I I I think I believe I'm the only commissioner who can welcome our new commissioner welcome you to the commission as opposed to welcome you back to the commission. So, I look forward to serving with you. So,

thank you. Uh and then and then the SQA presentation. Very good. Still kind of more surface. uh and uh as as many of you know I have a bit of experience in SQA having written ERS uh when I started my career so uh u you know having seen how is how has evolved and in areas devolved over the the the year so but very very thorough for what we need here to start so thank you and with that my comments

thank you very thank you very much welcome back to commissioner Fuentes it was good to see you today even though I didn't recognize you because of your nice new haircut. Um, I apolog I want to apologize to the applicant for almost skipping his item this evening, but he's gone, so I'll still do it. So, he has the recording for posterity. Um, I'll make you all a guarantee that that was yes, a faux paw and it will not be my last. Um uh in regard to in regard to SQUA um I think it was very um insightful and actually I think the those types of educational I went to the planners uh planning commissioners planning commissioner association planning directors association uh meeting and found it incredibly helpful. So those types of educational opportunities are wonderful um and I would look forward to more of them in the future as well. Um, with that said, I want congratulations to the two of you and we hate to lose good people, but we'll still congratulate you on your way out. And with that, the meeting is adjourned.