City Council - Regular Meeting

ful in fire mitigation is a resident of Foothill Ranch. I've come to this podium many times and my concern about fire mitigation in the Whiting Ranch and I feel that the 2,100 homes in Foothill Ranch are not protected. I reached out to Orange County Fire Authority board member Matt Tedimer, Mark Tedimer and he just with his pompous attitude doesn't do anything. I asked Mr. tatimer about reporting be of uh the means at the OCFA and again a pompous attitude last meeting. Go ahead and watch the two-hour meeting yourself. Well, Mr. Tatimer, we pay you a stipen. I think you owe the people of Lake Forest a summary of what happens there. But again, with your pompous attitude, we won't get it. Currently, I'm working with Amelia Fuentes, fire inspector, because there's a serious issue on Sugaro Street that those apartment garages are being used ground to floor to store hazardous paint. How do I know? It's easy. Going down El Toro Road towards Mirland's, all you have to do is look over to the right and all the garage doors are opened up. And that's your territory, Mayor District Five. [snorts] But you live in a bubble. You walk around your safe neighborhood. You're scared to go in Cigar Street and see that for yourself. You're afraid to go to Packer Street and see all the cars parked there. So, we've got a lot of problems in Lake Forest as

far as fire authority goes. And this was in the Orange County Register right here about helicopters. in support. But what's the headline read? XOCFA fire chief blast helicopter contract lapse. Hennessy, highly regarded fire chief says, "Man, we're getting rid of these helicopters. We're in big trouble." So board member Tedimemer, what's your position on this? I haven't heard it. Italian chief, what's your position on this? Am I Foothill Ranch going to be safe without these helicopters? This is a blistering report. We're in deep trouble without these helicopters. But you, Mr. Tammer, are having to say anything about it. And you're a board member. And you just sit there. Aren't you embarrassed? You haven't addressed that. We don't have these out.

Thank you for your time. So, we'll move to public comment. If you would like to make a comment, please fill out a blue speaker card and give it to the city clerk and your name will be called. Comments are limited to three per minutes per person. The council and staff will not respond to questions or comments during the public comment period. If you leave your contact information, staff may contact you to address issues raised during your comment. When you are called to speak, come to the podium. Your three minutes will begin when the green light is on. The green light will remain on for two minutes. When the light changes from green to yellow, speakers have one minute to conclude their comments. When the light changes from yellow to red, your time is concluded and please return to your seat. A timer is not displayed on the screen. Madame city clerk, have we received any requests to speak?

We have for general public comment, we have seven speakers. Our first speaker is Lissa Clark. Welcome.

Good evening. Mayor Peno, Prom Serbel, another councilman, long time no see. Lissa Clark, resident of Lake Forest since 1998. Y'all pulled me out of semi-retirement for this one. Actually, not y'all. Voits. You're fighting term limits. Come on, dude. you're going to just uncurp 87% of Lake Forest voters in 2018 that voted for term limits. Now, see, I was a part of that whole thing because in 2017, I was the chief proponent and leader of the successful recall of Andrew Hamilton. We were trying to clean up Lake Forest politics and the cornerstone of that was term limits because we don't need any career politicians in our local elections. Now, all of you had to vote in that election. Would you vote? Are you going to flip on your vote if you did yes for term limits? Did you vote no? That's none of my business. But you know, your conscience knows. So now you're going to put it back on the ballot because you're termed out in 2026. Voits, cannot you find a job that isn't on the taxpayer payroll? Sir, give it a rest. You were elected for two terms before 2018 when term limits passed. 87% of all the Lakes Forest residents. I'll leave you to do the math of about 85,000 people. What 87% that is.

Now you got your two terms and you're ready to term out. And so here we are again. You should be ashamed of yourself, sir. and Serbo for you to second him. No. Unacceptable. You all need to do the right thing by the voters and the residents of this city and uphold the term limits. Voits. You say, "I love Lake Forest. I love the residents." Blah blah blah. As you roll on around, if you truly love the residents, then you would listen to what they wanted in 2018. respect the residents, respect the voter, and respect that Lake Forest doesn't want any career politicians in their local election. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments. [applause] Our next public commenter is Mark Hermanson.

Wow. Good evening, Mr. Mayor and Council. Um, I only had two things today. I wanted to say thank you for the last meeting. I appreciate that you took the time out to answer some questions and concerns I had. Uh, and honestly, it kind of meant a lot. The other thing I'd kind of like to address is I know there are some hot topic issues here tonight. I will admit I am not educated on them, so I'm not going to speak on them. But what I will say is we have Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts here. We have student leaders coming and we have them watching. We all need to maintain decorum and respect. When we are here as residents of this city, it is not Tetier. It is Councilman Teter. It is not you. It is Councilman U. There is a level of respect as adults. We all need to show. I'm not taking any sides on it, but as residents of this city, we need to show an example. We have a gentleman here who lives near me that we are in a mortal combat over parking spaces. We both shake hands after the meeting. We both wish each other well. It doesn't mean we're not passionate about the subject, but it means that we act in a proper manner. Um, Councilman Voit, I I've never been your biggest supporter, but I will say that you have always called me by Mr. and my last name. And I have always referred to you as Councilman Voits or or Mayor Voits at the time. I would really ask the citizens here of Lake Forest, be passionate about your subject tonight. Again, fight for what you think is right, but let's a maintain a decorum and let's not act like the Yahoos that we have in Washington. We can be better than that. So again, thank you guys for your time and thank you for the answers last week, especially to our city attorney. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments. [applause] Our next public commenter is Andrew O' Conor.

Thank you, Lissa, for your passionate speech. is always good to work with you. When we did the recall, we got Robinson the hell out of out of the office and invo you cross the line on this tonight, we're going to recall you next. So, we're we're we're perplexed on why this [clears throat] subject is even happening because the last council meeting at the 1 hour 31 minute 47 second time span. [clears throat] the very end of the meeting was wrapping up Councilman Voit's motion to bring a back discussion item on council term limits for the future January 20th council meeting tonight. Voits wanted city attorney to do listen to it yourself folks [clears throat] an analysis of what other cities were doing about term limits. An analysis is what he said. Well, well, well. Councilman Serbo gave consensus and inquired whether Mayor Voits wished to change the current 8-year two-term limit to a 12-year three-term limit. Councilman Voits was ambiguous ambiguous to disclose his true intention. As a [clears throat] matter of public record, Councilman Serbo, who gave Mr. Voits at consensus vote needed to move the matter forward specifically asking Mr. Voits if he wanted the existing two-term council limit eight years changed to two terms 12 years. Councilman Voits declined and he said he only wanted to discuss what other cities were doing. Twice he said this after which Councilman Serbo gave him consensus. Then we learned in the agenda discussion item number 11 city council

term limits. The discuss direction has changed significantly from an analysis of what other cities were doing to actually placing the term limit on a special election June6, 2026 ballot. See the pattern, ladies and gentlemen. Councilman Voit says one thing orally, but in his own mind, he has another strategy. He did this when he changed the board of D2. We paid a consultant 80,000. He moved it so his friend Susie Betts would be in D2 so she could run against Benjamin U. He did that at the last minute. That's another void trickery. Okay. So the patterns there, Councilman Voites, there's no evidence that voter sentiment on term limits has changed in Lake Force from 2018 when we voted overwhelmingly to reduce the limits.

Thank you for your comments. [applause]

Our next public commenter is Jay Cost. J cost. Thank you. I do get a little stage fright here. Um, several times I have spoken with other people about my concern about ICE and have requested the city council to put in writing something to the effect of you support um the residents and the workers here in our fair city. Um, and I think that a lot of people, especially people of color, feel that they would um they need some sense of support, especially since what has happened in Minneapolis and around the country, not just Minneapolis. Um, as you all know, Renee Mlin Good was brutally shot and killed in that fair city. Um, people, mayors, city council, people there are speaking out and they're trying to set the record straight as to whose side they're on. I would hope that this city council would in the near future truly consider making some kind of a statement um in support of our residents here and

the workers here and justice. As part of my three minutes, I hope to keep it brief, but what I would like to do is to have just a moment of silence in appreciation and remembrance of Renee Mlin. Good.

[snorts]

Thank you. [clears throat] Thank you for your comment. [applause] Our next public commenter is Reed Buck. [applause] Good evening, Mayor Peno, Mayor Prom Serbo, City Council, and staff. I'm sure you could guess why I'm here tonight, but since I'll have another three minutes to talk about it later on the agenda, I'm going to spend my time here a little bit differently. I'd like to discuss the little ways in which council member Voitz has used his comments at the close of meetings to say things that are disturbing and disparaging to our democracy. It is so genuinely bizarre to have the end of a meeting go from I attended such and such city event and it was so lovely to let's close our meeting in honor of Charlie Kirk or trying to slip in a comment at the very end of a meeting to open the door on extending term limits. It is a sneaky and underhanded way of pushing your agenda and Lake Forest residents are taking notice. Quick poll of the room. If you are here because you oppose extending city term limits, could you stand momentarily?

So, are you sure you want to invite this kind of heat, Council Member Voites? [snorts] You have been on and off this council since 2010. You have been mayor four times. You have held a lot of power in Lake Forest already, and yet here you are digging for more. I can see why you try to slip it in at the end of a meeting when people are less likely to notice it. I'd be embarrassed, too, if I'd already had such a commanding voice in city politics and yet still wanted to extend my term. But just remember, Council Member Voitz, at some point you will be out of power, and you are going to have to watch as all of the precedents you've set are utilized by the kinds of political figures that make you toss and turn at night. Are you really sure you want to do that? Of course you are. But I'm not counting on your vote. So, I'm going to address my next set of comments to the other four city council members whom I hope can see the danger inherent in moving toward authoritarianism. If even myself and Andy O'Conor can agree on an issue, y'all should be able to get your together. And as for you, Council Member Voitz, the next time you want to spit on the eye of your voting public, at least say the quiet part out loud, okay? You owe us that much at least. Thank you for your time.

Thank you for [applause] your comment. Our next public commenter is Louise Robertson. Hello, I my name is Louise Robertson. I've been uh living here in my home since 1997 here in Lake Forest. I um of of course heard word of what's going on the agenda and I felt that I needed to be here and speak. I remember when Mayor Peno was newly elected. I definitely remember when council member Servo was elected. I don't remember when uh council member Voits or Tedimer were first elected because that was when I was not quite yet involved. I do know that in four years there will be four out of the five council members new none of you will be here then if these term if this does not go through but I felt it very important in 2018 two terms ago two terms ago there was a vote by the people of Lake Forest for there to be a two-term limit and right at the moment when the voice of the people could be in action, we're going to try to change the vote of the people. I felt there was a problem with that and I don't agree with that and I apologize for speaking now. I would have liked to have stayed for the meeting but I am participating in a um yoga class through city of Lake Forest. Um it's eight years later, two terms. This is a problem. This is something our city should not be doing. I don't think it's a good look for our city. And hope

you guys were all elected once and you're here today and you're great. The people can vote that person again. We I trust the people of Lake Forest to make good decisions. It does not need to be changed. Uh thank you for your time. Thank you for your comments. [applause]

Our next speaker is Bob Holtzclaw. [applause] Bob Hollesclaw, resident of Lake Forest. Uh, two-term limits. In 2018, residents voted 82% yes. Let's make it 85 next time. To start, all five city councilmen uh voted for me measure S in 2018. [snorts] That's including Scott Voitz. Of course, he was just waiting for eight years how to get rid of it. When it came uh to a ballot uh vote for by residents, 82% voted for measure S. hopefully to get rid of voter apathy in this city. Most of the time there's only five or six people here. You go to any other city council meetings, that's a halfpacked. Now you want to spend thousands of dollars of our taxpayer money, not for the betterment of this city, but for your on yourselves. Let's see what happened for Scott Voits for the past 16 years that he deserves another four years uh two four-year terms or three-year terms, excuse me. First year on the city council at the old city hall. Uh Voitz wanted to construct a hiring hall for day laborers. He lost four to one. claimed his dog pulled him out of the uh

wheelchair and he broke his leg until he found a crack uh in a sidewalk and sued the city for $500,000. Third, Voit uh voted uh for a questionable green energy uh uh company that no one had any experience in, but hey, he wanted to be on that board. Last we went to Audi's market and at Elro Road and people were getting $10 gift cards and he wanted one. So he goes over the lady and gets it and the other people were waiting in line for to since 700 a.m. to get those cards. How do I know this? I was standing right next to him about eight feet away and I told uh Voits not to take that card and he ignored me. This is what you want for another 12 years. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. [applause] Our last public commenter is Brian McMillan.

I believe that Mr. McMillan is not here. So our Oh, there he is.

Hello, my name is Brian McMillan. I'm a property owner in Lake Forest. Uh, I was uh lawfully unlawfully charged yet again with another misdemeanor. Let me explain. According to Lake Forest Municipal Code 1.01.200, 200. Any person violating any ordinance shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and according to Lake Forest Municipal Code 6.14.00002 also automatically creates a public nuisance if the owner of the property causes, permits, allows, or maintains property in such a way that any violation occurs. I did none of these and did not violate any ordinances, but I was charged with a misdemeanor nonetheless. According to Lake Forest Municipal Code, the city the city is responsible for baiting public nuisances using powers granted in uh Lake Forest Municipal Code 6.14. Landlords are not responsible for code violators that happen to be on their property. Orange County Sheriff's Department is not responsible. The director of community development is the person responsible. According to Lake Forest uh municipal code 6.14.003, 003. This council to a person has by voting by its voting record and comments directed, approved, and ratified the latest unlawful and unconscionable municipal laws that are clearly violations of the rights of personal services employees, business owners, and property managers. seems to dovetail perfectly with the with what people think of your legislative um powers that you have and how you've abused them. I have come to this this before this

council six times previously to offer my help to rid the city of two of my tenants who continue to violate Lake Forest Municipal Code. Six times you all everybody in this room has ignored me. They've you've all ignored my pleas to help me rid the city of the of my tenants who are continuing to to violate uh uh municipal law. I sus I suspect this will be the seventh. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. [applause] That's all there may.

Thank you. We'll move on to the consent calendar. [clears throat] All matters listed in the consent calendar are considered routine and will be enacted by one vote. There will be no separate discussion of these items unless members of the city council or staff request specific items be removed from the consent calendars for separate action. Has there been any requests to remove any item from the consent calendars? Yes, mayor. We do have two public comments for consent calendar item number four and number five. Okay. And do I have a motion for I'll move to the calendar for the remaining items.

May I ask a statement? So be yeah before we vote let uh council member Wits read a statement. Okay. There are warrants on the register for the county of Orange. I am an employee for the county of Orange, but I do not work in the departments that generated these warrants. Because the county of Orange is a public agency, and because I do not work for the departments in question, I have determined I have a non-interest in the warrants and I will be voting on them. Thank you. Thank you. Please vote.

And that motion passes unanimously. Thank you. And I'll take the speakers.

And our first public speaker is for item number four. And that is Andrew O' Conor. I'm going to talk on two things here in the consent calendar. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope your ears are open because here's another tricky thing the city did. We hired Panther Security to oversee the vendors, the street vendors because the uh Orange County Sheriff's Department says they can't do it. So, we entered into a contract for $200,000 with Panther Panther Security and I did my due diligence and guess what? They never were out there patrolling the streets. And in the last council meeting, they brought it up like, "Oh yeah, we're not doing the the Panther security anymore." I'm like, "What? So, you misled us. You told us that you were protecting us at night." Okay. What do we have? We had vandals in the park. So, now they're saying, "Well, we're going to rethink this and all this and that." Guess what, folks? We have no protection for these street vendors. We have no protection for our city parks getting vandalized. You see how it works here? They say one thing, but when you follow up, it's not there. And back to this council meeting last month, Councilman Voice, why weren't you here to see the swearing in of our new mayor? How unprofessional for you not to be here to support him? My goodness. But that doesn't surprise me, folks, because you know what tonight is? It's the seven-year anniversary when Scott and Stephanie Voitz filed their $550,000

frivolous lawsuit against us. Mr. City on on item number four, please. I am on number four. It all goes together. Mayor, connect the dots. Okay? It's all there. These people want to hear it. You want to stop it. See how it works, folks? They don't want you to hear the honesty. Okay? That guy sued for 550, collected 150, and what it was, he claims a divot at Pittsburgh Park when actually his own dog pulled him out of his wheelchair. And he wants eight more years, folks. That's Scott Fitz.

The lawsuit's up. I uploaded. You can look at it. Him and his wife sues for 550. Here's another thing. He ran unopposed, but he went out and got $38,000 in contributions for what? I did due diligence on that. Guess what? He took Can you please direct your comments to us? Thank you. The $38,000 on your for 460, Scott. I ran it down like the detective. It went all back to you and Stephanie and I it's uploaded. It's right there. That's who Scott Floyd is. How about the $5,000 you took from Sunstar? Thank you for your comments.

Yes.

I'm I'm sorry, but um Andy, you actually have misspoken. I was in the hospital during the swearing in of our esteemed mayor. I'm very proud of him. I was a supporter of his when he first ran and I continue to be. I would have been here if I was not in the hospital. So that is not true. The fact that I was excused for a hospital stay just got out Friday. So the other thing is I didn't sue the city for $550,000. I got hurt at a a a dis um even sidewalk on Pittsburgh Park and it was not my dog. My dog was not Thank you.

Next speaker. Our next speaker on the certification of warrant register is Andrew O' Conor.

Nice try, Councilman voice. But there's three people that you told and they'll they'll go under oath under subpoena saying that what she said your dog pulled you out. Okay. So we'll we'll end it there. Okay. $550,000. It's right there, folks. It's upload. Read it yourself. But anyways, let's go on to number five, certification of warrant register in residents in the audience. What this is is the city's checkbook. And each month we send out checks from, you know, a lot of money. Three million$4 million. City manager oversees it. You know, we send a million to the sheriff's department for protection. We send million to the county for stuff. We send money to the gas company. It adds up to three million, four million. But being a detective, I like to go see where our money spent. And guess what I found this month? We're spending $5,000 to Hender Leader Delos and Associates. Anybody hear of these guys? Not me. And you five. See, the thing is they don't even look at the warrant register. I come up here and I embarrass them. So you guys are looking at it. 5,000. You know what the comment says? Hang on, folks. Cannabis testing management. Well, I guess I got to pull a PR out on that to find what that's about. Unless city manager want to talk about what it is or deputy city manager or assistant city manager. Why are we spending $5,000 with the cannabis testing management? I'll find out. I'll come back. Do you know we spent $16,000 last month to security property for what? Graffiti

removal. Ain't that great? We've got a problem with graffiti in the city and it's basically in D5 Mayor Piccano's district. This is my favorite. This guy's a ghost. Joseph Aensson's son. He's a lobbyist up in Sacramento. He keeps getting these checks. You know, we're hearing about this fraud in Minneapolis. Billions of dollars. We got a little fraud going on here like Forest. This Joseph A. Gonzalez lobbyist. We're sending him a check for $3,750. I sent a PR request. What are we sending for? There's no information. What are you lobbying for, Mr. Lobbyist? Mr. Gonzalez, can you tell us what action you're doing in Sacramento for the city of Lake Forest? It's plank. And you say it's 37. No, this is like the 10th time. This guy's up to $40,000 in lobbying charges.

Thank you for your comments. Thank you for your comments. That's all, mayor. Okay. I'll I'll entertain a motion for I'll move four and five. I'll second this vote. [clears throat and cough] Any one more vote, please? Thank you. And that motion passes unanimously. Thank you. So, we'll move on to discussion items. Um, madame city clerk, please read the title for item number 11. The title of item number 11 is city council term limits.

Madame city manager, please introduce this item.

Thank you, mayor. Uh, mayor and members of the city council. On December 16th, then Mayor Voitz obtained council consensus to discuss city council term limits. From incorporation until 2014, there were no term limits for city council members. In 2014, the electorate passed a term limit measure which established a three-term limit with a two-year pause in service. In 2018, voters pass the current term limit, which is two consecutive four-year terms. More recently, Orange County cities have revisited and revised their local term limit provisions through voterapproved ballot measures. In November 2024, voters in the city of La Palama approved a measure revising council term limits to allow service for up to three consecutive four-year terms with the ability to serve again after a 4-year break in service. The resolution that we have attached to your staff report is the one that was used in La Palma. In so much as this item was placed on the agenda by the city council, any action is at your discretion. This concludes my report and the city attorney and I are available to answer any questions that you may have on this matter. Thank you.

Thank you. So, I'll move over to the maker of the motion to um say his piece.

Yeah. Um obviously people want to criticize um that I put this on the ballot or put it on for discussion tonight. Um I've been here a long time. I agree. But the fact is, as I've served the city of Lake Forest and the county of Orange, all the county commissions, the important county commissions are people that have influence and longevity. Two terms, eight years is not enough. In 2014, I supported I in 2014. In 2014, I supported term limits. Three terms, two years warm off, and the fact that you could come. So the fact is then in 2018 council put it back on the ballot for two terms, eight years. Eight years is not sufficient for us to actually have influence and clout in this county of Orange. So

two so two terms hurts the impact and influence of future city council members and the city of Lake Forest. So the fact that this is a common sense it's not about me. It's not about any of us council member. It's about the future of Lake Forest. Order, please. Order. Let him speak. It's about the future of Lake Forest and the clout and the influence we have in in the county. Not Lake Forest.

Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, if if I may. Um there are a lot of uh individuals here to speak tonight on a very important item. The Brown Act, which is the state's open meeting law, was amended last year um in line with uh years and years of case law. It was amended to provide uh for for rules regarding disruptions of council meetings. Um and actually prohibits disrupting council meetings. So everybody will have a chance to speak. Um we can certainly applaud after people speak, but it's important under state law that we give those who are speaking a chance to uh state their their comments, both uh council members, staff members, and public members. I will emphasize that state law prohibits disrupting a council meeting. Um we have never and don't want to remove from a council meeting, but that is what state law mandates again pursuant to changes to the Brown Act. So we just hope for decorum during this this uh this item. Thank you, Mr. City Attorney. So for for the public, I thank you for for coming and wanting to speak your mind, but as uh one of the speakers said earlier, please can we have a little just a little decorum so we could speak up here. Every one of us will say something and you'll have your three minutes. So please let him finish his thoughts. Thank you,

Mayor. Um, I'm doing this I believe for the good of the city and the future council members that will serve our city and serve it well. So, the fact is we've been blessed. The city of Lake Forest is a well-run city. We're the 10th safest city in the state. We're one of the financially healthiest cities in the state. And so, I just like to continue that. So, the fact that I believe democracy will be served by putting it on the ballot. I just brought the call to put it on the ballot. It's been on the ballot two other times. The fact that if the people are happy, then let it be. And so I'm just asking for democracy to be heard.

Thank you, mayor. Anybody else want to weigh in? Go ahead.

Thank you, mayor. For those of you who don't know me well, I just want to kind of lay out some information. And there there's been misinformation that's been communicated to us in email both for and against this situation. And just as a way of background, we talk about whether this is selfserving or not, I think you need to look at a track record of the people who have been elected to this position. For myself, many of you know that I'm a Marine Corps veteran. I was at Saddleag Church for 20 years. I served in my local church currently with AYSO volunteer and all sorts of various administrative coaching, refereeing, all sorts of things. So I have a track track record of serving the community. That's my heart. And when things come to us on our agenda, just so you know, you know, my process is that, you know, I gather information from subject matter experts, my own personal research, I listen to resident feedback, uh, consultants, and I take a look at that and I weigh it against and identify what the value proposition is for a particular agenda item and whether that's a return on investment or we have to evaluate it in terms of what the value directly is to Lake Forest residents. And that's the thing that I think that I just want to communicate, articulate, and let you know what's the you look at what's the motivation for this. And we've heard some people already speak about that uh regarding council member Voits. I also want to let you know that there's a lot of motivation here for value that directly impacts Lake Forest residents that many of you either won't want to hear, don't want to see, or don't value. The truth is that the tenure that we're talking about here and these government

agencies that we are a part of are vitally important. I'd like to ask some direct questions of a couple of people to help illustrate what I'm trying to do in terms of the value proposition of the relationships, the tenure, the leadership, the influence that we have as council members to serve on other agencies that are beneficial to our community. And with that, I'd like to start with council member Tedimer. He serves on the Orange County Fire Authority and the Orange County Transit Authority. And Mark, could you maybe illustrate for us what is it directly affecting Lake Forest residents from the Orange County Transit Authority that you serve on? Can you illustrate some of the value that we have and maybe even how long you've been on that agency, how long it took you to get to leadership uh elements and your influence on that particular board, please. [clears throat]

Uh well, thank you for the question. Um I'll I'll weave in my background just because it may be relevant. Um I was first elected in 2004 and served two terms. That's eight years. I left of my own valition. I went back to school to go get my master's degree. I was gone for six years. Um, I came back in 2018 and I'm now toward the tail end of my second term. So, I've served four terms with a six-year gap in the middle. Um, I will say that regarding the transportation authority, um, that's a highly coveted seat to get onto that board. It's an 18 member board. Um there are all five supervisors. There's 10 city council members and two public members and then one other person from CALR to get on the seat. It is not because this council put me there. It's because I had forged relationships with the mayors in the third district. These are the mayors of Rancho Santa Margarita, Mission Viejo. I was a mayor at time in 2024 obviously late forest Irvine Yor your Belinda and Villa Park and there's a process called the city selection committee where the mayors of those cities choose who will represent the third district from a city based on one mayor one vote and so to get to that place you have to have been around for a while and had an opportunity to forge relationships. So when I call the mayor from any of those cities, they know who I am. They know what I believe in. They know what I stand for and would are willing to say, "I will support you to get to OCTA." Um, as it relates to the value proposition, um, many may know that the El Toro

freeway intersection is in need of some enhancement. It's been on the measure M2 list of projects for many many years and it's been uh it's been stuck um trying to get consensus as to what that plan would look like. Some of you may have seen or participated in public meetings years ago, but that project is way behind uh in terms of getting improvements through uh through the El Toro under the freeway and other ways to better move traffic. Um my presence on the Orange County Transportation Authority has helped to move that forward. Um and working with Deborah Rose uh and others to try and move that project forward so we can revisit that, see if we can make improvements, work with Laguna Hills and Laguna Woods and see if we can come to consensus on what a plan would be to improve that uh that uh that area. So that's a little bit about how I got there and one example of a value proposition. I think that's what you were

all right. Well, similarly, your service on the Orange County Fire Authority, if you could illustrate for us again, what is it that may be affecting directly the Lake Forest residents from your participation as a council member, not as an individual citizen that gets on those boards, as a council member, and how long it's taken you to have influence and rise to levels of leadership and influence that directly affect us. Maybe it's wildfire mitigation that was brought up earlier. tell us about that aspect of your service.

Um, I've served I I don't exactly I've been on that board over those two periods when I was on city council. I've been there maybe 10ish years or so. Um, during the tail end of my first eight years, I was able to work my way into leadership. I became the vice chair of the fire authority and eventually the chair of the Orange County Fire Authority in 2011 12ish time frame and again it's a statement of not only well in that case it's a 25 member board but to get the support of those board members to have you represent the agency um is not something you just walk in and say I want to be the chair tomorrow that's something you earn through your experience and seniority and um working with all those other board members. And so I I was fortunate enough to serve as the chair of the fire authority back at that time. Um more recently, um I have been working with staff to look at ways to try and address some of the fire mitigation issues. It's something that I'm working on. It's not uh quite ready yet for public, but it's something that uh I am working on and we'll be trying to collaborate with others on it. Um I've had a meeting with division chief Bishop who we met earlier and uh there'll be more meetings coming up. So there are certainly opportunities to um try and drive policy. Uh in this case it's my hope it's a policy which will certainly benefit the city of Lake Forest. Hope that answers your question.

Thank you. I'd like to do a little future casting here. So, not that we can define this exactly, but what are some potential negative implications or ramifications for us not having these tenur relationships and raising to a level of leadership that has the influence that directly affects city of Lake Forest? What what could be the potential negative effects if we have staff changes, if we have council changes, if we're not able to have that seat at the table? What does that mean for the residents of our community? Yes. [clears throat]

Well, Lake Forest will always have a board at the Orange County Fire Authority because we are a structural city and we that's so we will always choose amongst this body a representative to serve on the fire authority. Um that's different than Orange County Transportation Authority because that's not done by this body. It's done by the city selection committee. Um, I don't know what the future holds for whether we're going to change anything, but I will say that um, as it stands right now, if nothing changes, I will lose my seat on the Orange County Transportation Authority in uh, in December. And that's not a seat that this body gets to choose. It's done by the city selection committee. So, it's the mayors of six cities. Uh we'll again we'll always have an Orange County Fire Authority Board representative like we do Vector and other things.

Okay. And if we look back to 2018 and the cited percentage of the number residents that voted for term limits, what was the environment back then? Was it get the bums out type of a mentality, a lot of political corruption going around? You take a look at this body of council members and our current staff and the work that we've done that again over 80% of our residents in our polling year after year after year say that we're doing an an excellent job. And so nobody's perfect, but you take a look at the amenities, you take a look at the safety component, the the fire authority, the initiatives that we put forth, the fiscal responsibility, the advocacy in national and statewide type of situations. There's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes. And unless someone can come up and they can point to all the ills that we have done as a city council, then I I think it's good to consider what is it this body of these colleagues and our staff have done as a benefit to this the the city and changing that could be a radical difference that oh my gosh, you know, five years from now if this doesn't go through then you're coming back and you say, "Oh my gosh, wow, we really like that council we had before versus the the one that we have now. That's a potential aspect. Or it could be you're going to find people that have the value that you want in our city and can deliver that too. But the decision is yours. And I think the reason the motivation for this is try and figure out is there the value that we're talking about here just highlighting a few of them in terms of these agencies that we aren't going to have

if we don't have an opportunity to move this forward put it on the ballot. have a discussion, have a civil argument for and against that and see what the people come up because I've had people from both sides of this argument that have come to me and talked to me and I appreciate all of your passion and your comments and and being here and we're listening, you know, to that. Um, but I'm also just trying to articulate what the value of this particular agenda item is. Thank you, Mayor. Um, as you see, tenure does benefit the city of Lake Forest. Um, many of you don't know the story behind, but I serve on the TCA, transportation corridor. Transportation corridor is able to buy mitigation property to continue open space and su save it for future generations. Many of you drove on the 241. I'm on the environmental committee as chair for the environmental committee. I was instrumental in putting up the wildlife fencing to save our mountain lions and save our deer from getting hit. They were getting hit at alarming rates along the 241. I was instrumental in that. The cattle you see grazing across from Cook's Corner, that was me saying that the mitigation property should be used for the benefit of our remember the past, challenge the future. We were a cattle ranch area. So, it was nice to see the cattle back on the slopes above or across the street from Cook's Corner. Those are just some of the things that happened because I was on vice chair. So, the fact that you all think that it's self-s serving. I'm away from my house right now home. I've worked a full day. I just got out of the hospital on Friday, but I'm here. And I welcome your comments, but I think you're misunderstanding that this is self- serving for me. I don't have 12 more years in me to be serving on the

city of Lake Forest. And I value all of you because I think Lake Forest is a great place to live, work, and play. And I truly believe that. So the fact is I got involved with the city of Lake Forest because I wanted to serve you all. So, I'm sorry that you're mad at me, but the fact is for the influence that we have, the influence, the camaraderie, the um um the experience that we have goes a long ways and promoting Lake Forest as a well-run city and I think that our stature in the state reflects that. Thank you, mayor. Okay. So, [clears throat] back in 2014, measure X what established term minute term limits for the mayors and council members. 77% voted yes. 22% voted no. In 2018, Measure S has been at Nauseium has spoken at Nauseium. 82% said that they wanted these term limits. The 2018 ballot measure term limits that set it from two four to two four-year terms is going to go into effect this November. The voters spoke in 2014 and 2018. Now it looks like we're trying to move the goalposts. A Pew Research poll consistently showed strong broad American support, which is from 70 to 87% for term limits at all levels, which is local, state, and federal.

[applause] cutting across party lines driven by desires for fresh perspective and career uh curb careerism. By this out city council voting to seek additional terms, it seems like we're saying that nobody else in this city can do this job. [applause]

I've heard about the regional boards prior to two or three years ago. But we had nobody on OCTA and our city manager has been able to move the needle for things that with OCTA. Our staff is very important. My question is what unfinished business do any of us have? When is El Toro exit going to be built? 10 15 years from now when we're all done. We have been a city for 35 years and there has been no regional board that would make us or break us. Am I hearing that if we don't approve this res this agenda item tonight that this city is doomed? I don't think so. If this measure passes, [applause] if this measure passes, we're only going to have the same problem that they're saying we're having now, 12 years from now or whatever the time is. My very first council meeting was on the Orange County Power Authority and we had to decide whether we were going to get into this um board. Originally, I voted yes to join it, but after more research, I was the one who made the motion with four months on council to get us out so we wouldn't saddle our residents with higher electricity bills.

[applause]

Council member Serbo and I were on the public safety ad hoc. It is the biggest contract that we have with the sheriff's department. We were also on the ad hoc for the trash haulers. It's an 8-year contract with CRNR in our first term. Each of our department heads does a great job. They don't need any one of us that's sitting up here. If I have a question about public works, I'm not gonna ask Doug Serbo. I'm gonna ask Doug Erdman. All I'm going to ask my co my colleagues tonight should this pass that I want the the title of this on the ballot to be as transparent as possible. And Mr. city attorney. What's this this ballot measure going to cost us?

I don't have that information, Mr. Mayor. So, we're going to vote tonight on something. We don't know what it costs. That's what it's looking like. We have no idea. I I don't think that's that's prudent. I mean, everything that's been said, we can't vote on this tonight. So, I'll Anybody else? I'll take public speakers. Thank you, mayor. We do have 26 public commenters for this item. Send them up.

Our first public commenter is Reed Buck. You know, I had a whole thing put in my phone and then I read the proposed voter cho sorry, Lake Forest election reform and voter choice measure text, which I will now read. to expand the ability of Lake Forest voters to choose who is elected to city council, to provide the opportunity for more consistent community leadership, and broaden the candidate pool for newly created district elections. Shall voters limit city council members to three consecutive terms in office with a mandatory four-year out of office period? Does that not strike any of you as extraordinarily disingenuous? Shall we limit to three consecutive terms? We are expanding terms. We are expanding them and that needs to be in this measure. Citizens of Lake Forest will not be hoodwinkedked into trying to vote for a measure that appears to be limiting when it is in fact actually expanding overreach and authoritarianism. And it is as simple as that. [applause] I believe strongly in elective government. Many of the people I associate with do not. And that's fine. But what I do believe in is that representatives represent. So let me ask y'all who asked for this. Which one of your denisens walked up to you and said, "Please, pretty please put on the ballot for you to be in there for four more years." Genuinely, I can respect and understand what council member Tedrimer is saying about the need for people to have longer tenures to establish relationships. And

that is my problem. My problem is that government requires this slow, grinding, agonizing process where so little gets done. And I know you feel that too. So why are we fueling that? Why are we increasing the amount of time that people stay in the same offices so that we can continue to have the same people make the same decisions over the same long growing periods of time? What if we forced them out? What if we caused them to have to constantly change in and out so we had to make quicker deals? So we had to hear new perspectives. This is an anti-democratic measure and you are deliluding yourselves if you think it's not the case. Please receive file and do nothing further. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. [applause]

Our next public commenter is Lindsey Buck.

Good evening, Mayor Peno and council and city staff. Um, I was a bit thrown off by that big self arandizing moment. It was very interesting to just hear the rambling of everyone's, you know, all your accomplishments and why you think you need to be here. Just throwing that all out was very interesting. Um, I am frustrated but not surprised that this authoritarian power grabbed its way onto tonight's agenda. As my partner just recently said, no one asked for this. We voted in 2018 to restrict council seats to two terms by 82%. Where did this idea come from? Except for Voit's desperate attempt to remain in power. In my opinion, no one in any branch of government should hold an elected position for more than eight years. Term limits ensure that no seat becomes entrenched because turnover is necessary for new perspectives to emerge. I also want to reiterate how manipulative this language is. Just stating that we are limiting city council members to three consecutive terms in office instead of saying we are expanding that from two to three. A resident who does not know what's going on and gets this ballot measure in front of them is not going to know what is happening. It's extremely manipulative. Um, and at a time when democracy is already crumbling around us, the last thing our community needs is yet another power grab. We have other pressing issues that the city must prioritize, not the least of which is our community members being kidnapped by federal bounty hunters right under our noses. [applause] So, vote no on this nonsense. Shame on you voids for requesting it. Shame on Serbo for seconding. and shame on any of you who vote yes on this tonight.

Thank you for your comments. [applause]

Our next public speaker is Alen Strickler. Good evening, mayor and council members. I'm going to read so that I have all my words ahead of me. My name is Elen Strickler and I've been a resident of Lake Forest for nearly 11 years. And I am also here to oppose agenda item 11, the proposal to extend term limits from two to three consecutive terms. Everybody has said it. We all know what's happening here. In um 2018, over 82% of Lake voters said that two terms was enough. And that wasn't a close call for in our any of our opinion. That was a mandate. And now, conveniently, right as the two of you are about to term out, now you're asking us to change the rules so that you can stay in power. That's not public service. That is selfservice. Term limits exist for a reason. They prevent exactly what we're seeing right now. Elected officials who have been in office for so long that they have forgotten that they work for us, not [clears throat] the other way around. Council member Voits has served 15 years. He's been may He's been [clears throat] mayor four times. That's a career, not a commitment to fresh leadership. No one is saying that you gentlemen are not qualified. But how can anyone else participate in forced relationships if you never let them? You are not the only capable people or individuals that can lead Lake Forest. Do we have to wait until all of you guys are in hospice until we get a chance at governing ourselves? The president it sets is very dangerous. We are watching the same reach happening at the federal level with hints of testing this in future boundaries of presidential term limits. When leaders decide the rules don't apply to them anymore, democracy suffers. It doesn't matter if it's

Washington DC or Lake Forest or in California. The principle is exactly the same. You don't get to rewrite the rules just because you don't like how they apply to you. The voters already told you what a couple names at a time. Yeah, exactly. Good idea.

Um, that little Q&A you had there, was that rehearsed? I was going to be nice tonight and here I go. Already ruined that. I'm here tonight to talk about the proposed extension of term limits. Our US Constitution limits presidential terms to two, just two. Period. Question uh exclamation point. George Washington's decision in 1796 to not run for a third term has often been given credit as the start of a tradition that no president should ever run for a third term. In his farewell address, Washington stated that the weight of years, and I see the weight of years on you guys. I see it. Made retirement necessary and welcome. He also stated he wished to set a precedent against lifetime rule. You want to give yourselves three more terms. By the way, you could get on the freeway tonight and get in an accident and not return here and will survive. So, if you think you're irreplaceable, you're wrong. You have a wonderful staff that will pick up for you. He felt it was his duty to step down, fearing that staying longer might create an image of a monarch, and the nation was ready for new leadership, as are we here in Lake Forest. Franklin Roosevelt served four terms, 1932 to 44, breaking the long-standing two-term tradition and raising fears for the executive powers becoming too concentrated, similar to dictatorships in Europe. After FDR's death in 45, Congress, led by Republicans and some southern Democrats, felt that such extended power was a threat to democracy and could lead to tyranny. They proposed the 22nd amendment to the United States

Constitution in 1947. And on February 27th, 1951, that amendment was ratified and presidential terms were limited to two. The states very clearly declared that no person shall be elected to the office of the president more than twice. The governor of California also serves only two terms. That rule should translate to all elected officials, including city councils. We really don't want to have entrenched career politicians. We want people with fresh ideals, ideas, and broader citizen involvement. It's time for a change. Keeping officials in office for shorter periods of time has proven to reduce corruption and undue influence as incumbents often become too comfortable in their positions and too open to act unethically. Fresh faces foster accountability as they are more likely to focus on immediate community concerns rather than long-term

Thank you for your comments. [applause] Thank you for your comments. [applause]

So to move this along, I will call up four at a time. So Jay Cost, Maria Castano, Laura Leggler, and Herb Cohen. Jay Cost. First, I would like to express appreciation to all city council members who have ever served our beloved city to help make it the best that we can make it. And thank you, Councilman Tedimemer, for being here. I appreciate the timeliness. But here are my concerns. The city council initiated a change in terms uh term limits in 2018 which was placed on the ballot as measure S which changed the terms from three four-year terms plus allowing for a return to apply for city council after a two-year wait period to the current limitation of two four-year terms. Now it is sought to return to three consecutive four-year terms with possible second round second round of three four-year terms after waiting four years at infant item. Your resolution states that in part this is to quote broaden the candidate pool. But to many of us, this makes no sense since the candidate pool will only be broadened if elected officials are replaced more often and not less often. Also, [clears throat] most Orange County cities have a lifetime limit of years or terms served. This resolution has no lifetime limit that I see. And each time the city changes the rules, the people in office always start a new, wiping their slate clean as if they have ever served one year. The

proverbial revolving door of political service. And how many years does a council member need to have? That's the debate that I hear from from some of you and that is debatable. I understand that. But if I think of how much happens in eight years which is equal to the current term limit and think of it in terms of how much time and how much change happens in a child's life between birth and eight years. There's lots of time there are a lot of changes and there's a lot of opportunities for making a difference in that time span. If a council member feels they haven't yet had enough time to make the changes they wished to make, maybe we should open the position to a broader candidate pool and let a person with a fresh set of ideas have a chance to carry the torch and make our city the best it can be. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. [applause]

Good evening, members of the council. My name is Maria Castano, a concerned member of this community. I'm here to express my firm opposition to agenda item 11, which proposes extending city council term limits from two to three. Extending these limits is a step backwards for democracy in this city. First, the two-term limit ensures that our local government remains innovative and not entrenched. It encourages new ideas. Two, extending terms stops new and diverse voices from joining the city hall. Three, the people of the city originally approved two-term limits because they wanted to ensure change. Extending the limits is a betrayal of the public trust. And my conclusion is that we need a dynamic, responsive, and accountable government. Absolutely no to extending term limits to three terms.

[applause] Thank you for your comments. Laura Leggler.

Okay. Anyone who knows me knows I love to beat a dead horse. So, I'm going to say the same thing. Uh, democracy is a system of government in which power comes from the people exercised through free and fair elections and the ability for citizens to have real voice in decisions that affect their lives. Term limits strengthen democracy by ensuring leadership is renewed, ideas stay fresh, and no single individual holds power for too long. When offices are open to new candidates, voters have meaningful choices, participation increases, and trust in the government grows. Term limits protect the fundamental democra democratic principle that every vote and every voice matters. Elected positions belong to the people, not to politicians. Thank you.

[applause] Thank you for your comments.

Our next four public commenters are Sean Fletcher, Andrew O' Conor, Ken Forbes, and known Wells. Uh, I think you're my name is Herb Cohen and I'm going to come out against the proposition, but I think you're going to be happy to know that a prestigious entity called Cambridge University Press was in favor of extending uh term limits for two reasons that will probably be cited in support of this. one, it extends and deepens the institutional expertise. I think you spoke to that concept. Also, it uh reduces potential for shifting of power from an elected official to an elected to an unelected administrator, people that the population doesn't know about, but would have more influence with someone who's just coming to terms. And here's my thinking. it's that that uh research does not apply in this instance and I think the reason for that Mr. Serbo is exactly your experience. You came into office citing experience that you had both professionally and as a as someone who was committed to the community. It was extensive. It was deep. And the candidates who will come in and run for elected office will be people who are intelligent, who've been involved, who've been active in a community, and will come up to speed real quick. They will serve four years and probably another four years beyond that. And I think that's to the good. The last point I want to make and it

this this is troubling for me is that the the proposition assumes the election will be on in June with along with the uh a time of uh when people don't turn out very often. So to me I hate to say this but it's like a thumb on the scale. There will be a very low turnout. Typically, people just are uninterested and don't vote. And I think that's a bad time to put something on the ballot that's this important. I would say if it does go on the ballot, but it shouldn't, but if it does, wait till the November elections. Thank you. [applause]

Thank you for your comments. My name is Sean Fletcher and I have been a resident of Lake Force for 23 years. I'm speaking today regarding agenda item 11 to express my opposition to council member Voit's effort to overturn Measure S which was overwhelmingly approved by the voters. I would like to start with a quote on leadership and governance by Plato. The measure of a man is what he does with power. It is difficult to view this proposal as anything than other than self-s serving. Calling a special election at a significant cost of the city for a measure that directly benefits the council member who introduced it raises serious concerns about priorities and stewardship of public funds. These resources could be far better directed toward programs and services that benefit our community as a whole. A true civic leader acts in the interest of the public, not personal longevity. Council member Whites has served on this council for over 15 years. While he has certainly been present for many positive actions taken by this body, I struggle to identify major initiatives that he himself originated would significantly improve the city. Term limits exist to ensure fresh perspectives and accountability. They may be reconsidered when a leader has demonstrated they are truly indispensable. In my view, that standard has not been met here. Measure S was placed on the ballot in 2018 during a regular election, not a special one. More than 29,000 residents voted and only 82% supported limiting council members to two four-year terms. The measure faced no organized opposition and reflected a clear decisive view of the voters before seeking to reverse that decision. Has there been any comparable demonstration of public demand to do so? And is it fiscally responsible to spend taxpayer money on a special election to undo a measure

passed by such a wide margin, particularly when the primary beneficiary be the very council member proposing it? Civic leaders require making decisions that reflect the will of the voters and the best interest of the city. I respectfully urge the rest of the council to reject this motion and to uphold both the intent of the electorate and responsive use of public funds. On just a side note, I I hope the rest of the council's read the the room in terms of the fact I don't think the issue here is as much of not possibly extending in the future. It's the fact that who's doing it and how he is not liked and it's it's he that basically is causing his opposition not as much of people aren't willing as long as they're justified. Thank you very much.

Thank you for your comments. [applause] So, my fellow residents, I've done pretty good job tonight to bring you up to speed on how the city council works tonight. I think I'll open up your eyes. But let me really open up your eyes to let you know these five councilmen don't run the city. Neither does the city manager. You know who runs the city? Right there. The city attorney, Matthew Richardson, from Beston Creger. he runs this city and you saw it tonight when he was asked on how much it would cost for this and he's like I don't know but isn't it interesting Mr. city attorney that you wrote up a supplemental document is a part of item 11 that is titled attachment two resolution calling for a special municipal election. How much exactly are city pack taxpayers paying in legals for that? It's an extremely long document. Mr. City, you can look at me. Mr. City attorney, you can look at me.

Mr. Mr. Okconor, please to the council, please.

There's no evidence that the voter sentiment and term limits has changed in like Forest from 2018 when we voted overwhelmingly to reduce it. Would it make much more sense to do a general survey using Microsoft forms or public input? already confirmed this with communications and marketing director Aaron Rodriguez. Why don't you send a blast down and get and see what what you get back. Why are we going through all this cost a special election in June and all this is ridiculous. Get modern. It's right there. You can do it. You can get a ballpark estimate where residents stand in term proposing a full-blown ballot measure for a special election. cause is a critical factor. My understanding is much more the expense of place a measure on proposition on special election ballot June 2026 it would be for a general election in November. It amounts to tens of thousands of dollars in a minimum for the city size of Lake Forest. And like the other gentleman says in June people aren't paying attention. And I can just imagine the verbiage our city attorney Best Besson Creger will put in some trickery word in there that people won't even understand it. We've seen this happen time and time again. And of course, our legal expenses must be paid to our own city attorneys. He's happy. By the way, folks, do you know he collected $1.2 million from us in 2025? He charges us $100,000 a month. That's what we're paying legal fees. 1.2 million. And I guarantee you this, he just racked up a h 100,000. He won't admit it. He'll never show our invoices. This guy runs the city of Lake Forest. Best Besson Creger. Not these five. Not city manager. Matthew Richardson. Best

Besson Creger with a smug look. Thank you for your comments.

Good evening, mayor, council members, and staff. I'm a concerned member of the community, and I'm here to express along with all of these folks uh behind me my viciferous opposition to agenda item 11. I believe that a government and its locally affected uh elected officials such as yourselves should serve its people, not the other way around. In fact, Councilman Voits, you stated in your bio on your official website that you are quote committed to an adherence to the Constitution end quote. And yet here I am publicly opposing what is blindingly clear to many of us here. A desperate power grab by a city council and a large and largely councilman votes that seems its only aim is to serve its narrow-minded and authoritarian agenda. As you know very well by now, in 2018, the residents of Lake Forest voted to enact the current term limits by an overwhelming margin of 82.55%. Do you know why that is? It's because the communities you claim to serve don't want entrenched bureaucratic dinks. Staying in power just because you think you deserve it or whatever. My position as a concerned member of your of your community is that agenda item 11, take a dirt nap. Thank you for your time. [applause]

Thank you for your comments. Hi, my my name is uh Ken Forbes. I'm I'm really thankful that you're here tonight. I really appreciate the mayor's comments on the budget and so forth. All the council members, you know, I know it works a lot of work coming out here. I know it's a lot of work for the for the to volunteer for the community and to be part of all the actions that take place. you know, we there was a a reason that there's a term limits and and we really we understand that you're you know, your act activism with the community, you know, in and develops you to relationships that build well. You can use that building in a lot of places. It can be in your church. It can be in your community. It can be in a lot of different places. It can be with the forest. You know, there's a lot of things that can be done. But as far as this council, this this board, it's a it's a two-term limit. You know, now we the people did not ask for this motion. It's you guys. You guys asked for it. And you know, there's something my grandfather used to say about something that's in the oven too long. It stinks. So, you know, just I really want to work for our mayor. the council I'm not too sure about right now, but I do want to work with my mayor. I I'm involved in community activism as well, so I will, you know, I I'll listen. I'll come back. I thank you for please voting no tonight. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. [applause] Our next four public commenters is Ray Bonito, Morgan Sibi, Lissa Clark, and Miguel Escobar.

Good evening, mayor and honorable members of the city council. Thank you for the opportunity to uh speak this evening. I want to begin by sincerely thanking each of you for your leadership and your willingness to serve the city of Lake Forest. Local government uh requires time, sacrifice, and genuine commitment to the community. And I appreciate the responsibility each of you carries on behalf of our residents. My name is Ray Bonito, a resident of Lake Forest, and I'm here tonight in support of Proposition 11. At its core, to me, this issue is about good governance, continuity of leadership, and trusting the voters of Lake Forest. Healthy communities benefit from leaders who have the time to gain experience, understand complex issues, and relationships that allow them to serve effectively. Leadership grows stronger with wisdom earned over time. While I'm grateful for the role terms uh term limits play in encouraging accountability, I believe Proposition 11 strikes a reasonable balance. Allowing the option of an additional term does not guarantee anyone a seat, nor does it remove accountability. To me, it simply gives the residents of Lake Forest like me the choice to retain effective, proven leaders if they believe it serves the city's best interest. You might not know me, but I have spent so much of my adult life in service that is 24 years United States ser uh naval service and a corporate office. And that experience has taught me the value of stability, institutional knowledge, and thoughtful decision making. When capable leaders are forced out solely due to time limits, communities

could potentially lose momentum and continuity are difficult to replace. Proposition is not 11 is not about politics or personalities. It is about empowering voters, strengthening leadership continuity and allowing a city city to benefit from experience when the people choose it. I respectfully encourage the council sers to support placing proposition 11 before the voters and allowing the people of Lake Forest to decide. And to my fellow residents, this is your city, your voice. Proposition 11's ensures you and I retain the freedom to choose the leadership you believe will best uh serve the city of Lake Forest future. Thank you again for your service, your leadership, and for the opportunity to speak this evening. May God bless you. May God bless the city of Lake Forest and may God bless America. Thank you very much.

Thank you for your comments. Morgan Sibi.

Good evening, mayor, mayor prom, and council members. My name is Morgan, and I'm a Lake Forest resident. The purpose of our city council is to represent the voices of the community, a community that naturally evolves over time. Over the span of eight years, much can change. And while someone may have represented a group well more than a decade ago, we must ensure our leadership continues to reflect the needs and concerns of today's residents. We set term limits for a reason. Term limits serve as a safeguard against the structural advantages incumbents hold. Advantages that unintentionally stifle innovation and discourage newcomers from stepping forward. I want to express my appreciation for the dedication and countless hours our current council members have invested in making Lake Forest the community that drew my family here three years ago. Your efforts have shaped this city, and I hope you can take pride in what you've accomplished while using the expertise and experience you discussed tonight to usher in the next generation of representatives who will carry this work forward. With that said, I want to be clear. I do not support extending city council term limits. Thank you.

Thank you for your comment. [applause]

Good evening, council. Lissa clerk again. [clears throat] Apologize I kept standing up early. I actually traveled from Alabama today to be here. I'm a senior site construction project manager building renewable energy. I travel 320 days a year and this was this important for me out of my own pocket to get here. So, Councilman U, I'd like to address you. You are a veteran and you understand the chain of command. The top of the command is the residence. Please fall in line and vote no. Mr. I'm sorry, Councilman Tedimer. You and your wife have given a lot to this city. I respect you. I think that you are an honest man. I think you know what the right decision is. I think because of your educational background that you have a respect for public administration and the voter. I please ask you to vote no on this because it's the right thing to do. Council member Voits, there is no love lost between us and I'm cool with that. You told me a week after your accident in the old city hall, it was just me and you. That you were in your wheelchair and your dog pulled you out. I was actually concerned about you. Then the story changed. Whatever. I don't care. It's history. But that is not the first lie that you have told me to my face. And just let go of the leash. You're also a county employee. You follow Don Wagner all around. So now

you're a double dipper on the taxpayers's payroll. It's absolutely disgusting, sir. Mr. Serbo, sorry, Mayor Prom Serbo, you gave him a second, but the second was to discuss what other cities are doing. Respectfully, I don't care. Other cities aren't paying our taxes. Other cities aren't voting. Other cities aren't here. Okay, it shouldn't matter what other cities do. This is Lake Forest and the voters spoke and I stand corrected. It was 82.57. Whatever. It was a lot that voted. I do know how much it cost, but I'll let you guys figure it out. But it was a lot. We put it on the primary in June and then it went to the general election. This is 2018. The reason why council member Voitz needs it on June is so that he can run in November for 2026 before he turns out. And finally, Mayor Peno, veteran,

thank you for your comments. [applause] Hi, good evening. Uh, in in 2018, the voters decided uh they decided to limit term limits. Uh, changing term limits is a slippery slope for changing other rules that we don't like. Where do we draw the line? Um, successful politicians should be empowered to s to seek higher forms of office. Um, given all your accolades, I'm surprised why we're not seeking other other positions. Um, in 2018 when the voters decided to limit term limits, uh, did they get it wrong? Did the did the voters get it wrong when they elected each and one of every every one of you? I'm deeply offended that we're entertaining expanding term limits. It's a slap into the it's a slap in the face to other leaders within the community. Um, are the other citizens of Lake Force not capable of holding office as well? Um, I hope the voters recognize this. Thank you. Thank you for your [applause] comments.

Our next four public commenters is Mike Davidson, Julie Pierce, Frank McGurvey, and Julia Manioni. Hi, I'm Mike Davidson. I've been uh I've been a resident here since uh 1980. Um uh as I spoke last week or last uh last time, in general, our city has run far better than most. We have good transparency and can communicate well with our representatives and the our various uh excellent uh city departments. and um and his proposition measure seems out of character with that. In 2018, the voters of the city clearly passed me major major uh measure S reducing both consecutive and lifetime terms of service for city council members. The people have voted and now that outcome is being questioned only six years later. two four-year terms and a two-term limit uh two-term lifetime limit is very common throughout local, state, federal offices and for good reasons. Incumbents are difficult to oust. Encouraging new people to lead helps keep government re relative or relevant to changing issues and modern solutions. It also helps to keep our leadership connected to the people they serve. These term limits have proven to work well. Our current terms were clearly what the people you serve wanted. Leave it alone. Those of you who are terming out, we thank you for your service, but it is time to move on to your next

endeavor. And I also want to say too that you know Mark Tedimer um there's a lot of things that uh he's he's uh been involved in that were not mentioned. Um I remember working with him when he was with IRWD and and and uh I know he's had he's been involved in a lot of other community things. I don't think that his involvement is is uh is going to end if he's uh if he's not a city councilman anymore. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. [applause]

Is that about the right thing? Can you hear good and good ranger? I'm Julie Pierce. I've lived here for 50 years. 50. I'm very familiar with Lake Forest long before it was a city and I've been impressed. You know, some of you have served very well and you've served in the past and that's very nice. But the reality is on a psychological level, the longer I get to hold on to a position, the more I feel I'm entitled to it, that I'm it's owed to me. The more I have a chance to form connections that are basically corrupt, as somebody had pointed out earlier in the things, because I have all this time to to further that. And I notice that there's five men up there and I don't see a single woman. Now, to the best of my understanding, 50% of the population here is women. And in fact, one of you was arrested for a felony by the district attorney's office for the third time in three years. So that's, you know, the attitude towards women, but he got it reduced to a so that he could, it was no longer a felony because a judge made a change against the the desire of the district attorney office and so he's been allowed to serve. You change the rules, he can keep on serving forever here and then we're really not represented. These are the important things to remember. It's very nice and all of you all of you have done I think probably good things at different times but it's also we need to always have new voices. It's the most cynical thing in the world in a democracy when you don't like the results to keep throwing it at the voters so that you can get them to change it. That's not democracy. That's autocracy. So it's important that you realize who you represent and why. and that it's very easy to convince yourselves that you're just doing the right thing and it's all for good reasons when you know that's not human nature. It gives you a cushy job that you don't even have to work for. When

you have new people coming on to the committee on the council here, they have new ideas. They bring in new competition to what's been going on. It makes you think. It brings the city alive more. But when the same people have the same positions over and over and over, it just becomes a quagmire. It's really important that you honor the voting that happened so few years ago, less than 10 years ago, because you don't like the results. That's cynicism and that is truly anti-democratic. [applause] Thank you for your comments.

[applause]

Hello guys. I'm Frank McGurvey. Been a resident for a long, long time. I've also owned a business in Lake Forest for about 40 years. Um, you know, you say eight years. I'm still not done. I think there's a big problem with that. Um, also like Julie Pierce said, no women on the board. Problem with that. Anyways, I hear the board is discussing extended term limits. These limits were only voted into our guidelines in 2018. They essentially give you two four-year terms. We thank you for your service, but it's now time to give others the opportunity to serve. I would personally like to see new ideas, fresh energy, and some diversity on our city board to match the community it serves. [applause] Please understand, we appreciate your years of service. In Mr. void's case, he will have served 15 years. This is way too long. We ask you to drop the issue of extending these limits and stay within the 28 or 2018 guidelines. Thank you. [applause]

Thank you for your comments.

Good evening. My name is Julia Manone and I've been a proud resident and homeowner in Lake Forest since 2022. I'm so grateful to have been welcomed so warmly into this community. Though I haven't lived here long, I love this city dearly um and call it my forever home. Before this evening, I'm a bit embarrassed to admit I've only visited the city hall on one occasion to obtain the permit for um the wedding ceremony between myself and my husband Adrien, who you'll hear from in a moment, which we held in Serrano Creek Park in 2023. I wasn't planning on sharing my credentials, but it seems quite important to some of the folks in this room. So, I'll share a few of them. I graduated as saludiatoran of my class at the University of Southern California in 2013. I served two years in Americanore. I hold a master's degree in urban development from the technical university of Damstat in Germany. I work now for UC Irvine public health. I am the co-chair of my union's chapter at the University of California in Irvine, representing over 2100 working professionals in healthc care technical and research units and I'm also a delegate at the Orange County Labor Federation.

I am here to speak on item number 11 and I oppose any motion or city resources or expense to extend or revise term limits on the Lake Forest City Council. As one of the other speakers said this evening, let us follow the examples of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson who did not seek re-election to our country's highest office past a second term. A practice later enshrined in the 22nd amendment of the US Constitution. And more importantly, as I learned this evening, let us respect the wishes of the 2018 Lake Forest voters who impose these term limits in the first place. There are so many other pressing political priorities and I do not want the residents of the city of Lake Forest here tonight to waste our time door knocking on this proposed measure in opposition to this proposed measure instead of fighting for justice, true community safety for all of us and to protect our democracy. I don't know any of you personally and everything I know about your records as political servants, I've learned just this evening. So, I want to make this clear. For me, this isn't about you. But I do see that four of you will be ineligible for re-election after you complete your terms this year. I thank you for your service and encourage you to continue to find other ways of serving our community. There is a plethora of qualified, dedicated, committed residents of Lake Forest who will serve on this council and represent this city's residents with integrity, leading our city in the years to come. So, thank you for your time.

Thank you for your comments. [applause] [applause]

I wanted to say uh my wife's amazing. Um thank you so much for speaking. Um hello and good evening council members and Mr. Mayor. My name is Adrian and I am here as a concerned resident and homeowner in Lake Forest. Addressing item 11, I would like to say that I am against the extension of term limits. I believe that to have a healthy democracy, we need to ensure that there's opportunity for new members of our community to be able to serve on city council. Extending term limits not only overturns an election result by the voters of Lake Forest, but would also be an unnecessary cost of our taxpayer funds. Please honor the voters who voted to impose the term limits in 2018 and protect our democratic process. Thank you for your time. [applause]

Thank you for your comments. And our last five public commenters, that'll be Bob Holtzclaw, Jennifer Guy, Cynthia Contrell, Nicole Mcniff, and Britney Gail. Bob Hollesclaw, resident of Lake Forest. Uh, I have a question. Uh, how will this read on the ballot? Can we get a copy now? I have some people that want to read this. Uh this uh is a new three-year four-year term ballot and it doesn't make any sense quite frankly. Uh it looks like measure S that 82% of the people here voted for. The residents voted in using our tax money to go against the actual feelings of the people behind me. Measure S was meant for new ideas and new people to sit on a city council and get away from voter apathy which plagues this city. Most of the city meetings usually there is only about five or six people back here. Look at this crowd. Now [applause] [cheering] that should be telling you something. I have a suggestion. Why do we have to pay for this? How about you pay for the election out of your own pockets? Because you don't represent these people. You only represent yourself. And matter of fact, I want to say other one thing too. I'm extremely proud of

the people behind me. For one time, we get a good crowd here with a with a understanding of exactly what's happening here. And this is ridiculous. If I have to uh uh help in any way, I've worked on some of your elections years ago and if anybody and if we have to put up signs or anything else, I will supply all the wire throughout this city for all those signs. I pledge it right now. [applause] We're going to go in this deep and we're not going to let up. And matter of fact, Mr. Servo, you told us uh that uh you do all this stuff for the city and stuff like that. I called you up about fire hazards in uh uh Foothill area and you emailed me back. I still have the email and you said, "Oh, Diane Dixon is Hannah, our assembly person. She's done more for this city than they have. Why do we need you? But like I said before, if you're so intent on this, put up your own money. We don't need it. Thank you, [applause] Mayor.

Thank you for your comment, mayor. Like to address Mr. Klaw's comment is that he's inaccurate in terms of the responsibility of what he's talking about. The insinuation is absolutely insulting. So, just want to make sure that I did respond to him. I communicated back to him how to get that resolved with the proper channels. So him making an accusation that I I was worthless somehow in this case is grossly inaccurate. That's not true.

Hi, good evening. My name is Jennifer Guy. I'm a resident and homeowner in Lake Forest. My husband was raised here and we're raising our family here and very happy and we love the city. Um, thank you to everyone for your service and your leadership. It's one of the things that we all love is what we've built here in Lake Forest. I'm here to speak in opposition to agenda item 11. Uh, I'm concerned that revising the city council term limits undermines the purpose of having term limits. Um, the in the discussion earlier um amongst yourselves, there was two points that were really like brought up in in favor of of the change. Um, one was that the we should put it to the voters, but that seems disingenuous as we've already put it to the voters and we've have their we have their ruling on that and so we don't need to take it back to the voters every time it's time to actually turn people out of office. Um the other point that was made um in favor of in favor of the proposal was that the experience and relationships that everyone has worked so hard in your your time are valuable and I totally understand that they are. I think we all experience that in our own careers that the relationships you make are very powerful. However, there's it's also kind of flawed logic to assume that there's nobody else who will be able to work and make those new relationships. There's always going to be a project that you have going on. There's always going to be something. So, if we wait for things to finish that will never finish. So, we need term limits. We need to keep the term limits that we currently have in place. We can't keep people in power just until all of their projects are done. Um, I strongly urge it council to receive and file this and not move it forward. Thank you.

Thank you for your [applause] comments. Cynthia Canrell still here. Good evening, Robert Mayor Robert Puquino, Mayor Prom, Doug Serbo, and council members. My name is Cynthia Cantrell. Um I'm here tonight um actually in favor of um item 11 and um what I want to say is that I do believe that the city of Lake Forest first of all has has grown tremendously and um hats off to all of you who have worked so hard to make this city great. Um I don't believe that every um resident here has had a chance to vote um one way or the other. Um there's been lots of growth. There are new residents here and I do believe um that the people should have a chance to vote on this and have a voice. Um I I want to read something that I think is important. Um that letting people decide on term limit extensions emphasizes voter sovereignty. Ensuring citizens not rules determine who represents them. preventing disenfranchisement and allowing voters to keep effective experienced leaders by giving people a voice to express their views through vote. Um, especially eight years ago is a long time ago. So, a lot of things have changed. There's new residents here and I think we should consider allowing them to have a voice. Thank you very much. Thank you for your comments,

Nicole McN.

Uh hello, mayor and uh city council members. My name is Nicole and uh thank you for allowing me the chance to speak this evening and thank you for being here. I also had something well written, but I think that so many other people before me eloquently stated why they oppose expanding the city term limits. And I myself also strongly oppose and based on the reasons of why so many people here spoke to why we have term limits and the democratic process and why we need to protect that. I think I just want to respond to some of the comments that the city council members made. And the first one um being that Mr. Voit talked about that we should believe that he is genuine about, you know, putting this ballot measure and not out of self-interest because he is here tonight and you're away from your family and you work all day and I am sorry you're in the hospital. I hope you're okay. But many of us here also came from work. We are away from our families. I myself worked a 12-hour shift at the hospital. I have a baby at home who I haven't seen today. And it was important for me to come here and speak. So, I think that's a little insulting to say that to all these other people in the room because [applause] with all due respect, um that is your job and that is why you're here for the city of Lake Forest. And I also was a little offended that to hear that the only argument for putting this ballot measure is because of the fact of um you know institutional knowledge and we would be getting rid of that institutional knowledge if we didn't expand city term limits. You know I work in healthcare at the leadership level. I worked at the director level. I've worked as a city advocacy city in city advocacy. And you

can't tell me that you can't get something done in four years. I think that if you can't get something done in four or eight years, you should look at your own leadership qualities. [applause] So, um I I just I strongly um hope that the city council does not move this forward. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. [applause] [applause]

Hi, mayor. Hi, Councilman. Um, my name is Britney and I've been a resident of Lake Forest for about a decade. Um, I live here by choice. I love this city very much and um, it's clear that a lot is being done right and I'm very grateful for that. Um, I am however a strong defender of democracy and extending term limits is an erosion of democracy that I do not support. The term limits exist to ensure regular accountability, healthy competition and continued trust of and the continued trust of residents. Um extending them concentrates power and weakens one of the basic safeguards of democracy. Um in 2018, 83% of residents voted to limit council members to two consecutive terms. I believe that decision should be respected. So, please don't waste our money to erode our trust. Thank you. [applause]

Thank you for your comments. And that's it, Mayor. Thank you. And I'll bring it back to my colleagues.

So, f first question is for the city attorney. So, if this measure pass, will the clock reset? Uh thank you mayor and council. The measure as drafted would reset the clock. Council can give alternative direction. Oh so that means if this measure pass the members can potentially serve another 12 years on top the two two term they already serve. That's correct. That we're talking about two decades here. Yeah. That's that's how it's drafted.

Okay. If there any possibility you can add verbiage there that counting the two-year term they already serve for the three-year term for a lifetime. Yes, the language included in the in the agenda is baseline language which was taken from uh a city that did this last year in line with council direction. The council can give alternative direction. We could amend the language to um have that three-term limit start in 2018. Therefore thereby counting previous terms the past two terms for example. Okay. Thank you.

So madame city clerk if you can remember how many emails did we get today? We have about I think a little over 50 email comments.

Okay. And then we have 25 speakers today. of those emails that we got, I want to say about 85% to 90% were opposing this this agenda item and 23 out of the 25 tonight are opposing this. Um, I don't I personally don't think that we need to go back to a back to the residents. Residents are here. If there were people that were approve that wanted this, there'd be a whole lot more in this in this room tonight. So, uh, I'll entertain a motion from any one of my colleagues. If not, I'll make the motion that we receive and file. [applause]

I will second that motion. Well, I'm going to stay true that um make a substitute motion that 2014 the people spoke. This people spoke for three terms and then again in 2018, four years later, the people spoke that they wanted term limits of two terms. So, the fact is that we're not wrong that term limits are viable in the city of Lake Forest. My thing is term limit exception should be put on the ballot rather than not considered at all because doing so preserves democ democratic choices while allowing the community to evaluate whether two terms or three terms is best. Conditions have changed but that fact is that people have spoken at 2014 and 2018. Voters deserve the opportunity to decide not have the opinion removed entirely. Choosing not to place the issue on the ballot denies the public a voice in an important structural decision. A ballot measure does not force an extension. It simply allows voters to weigh the benefits and drawbacks and make an informed choice. So I this is my substitute motion. Term limits hurt the impact and influence of future council members at two terms. Three terms is a good alternative. Experience and hold on guys. Experience and camaraderie

please have value and a ballot measure lets voters decide whether the value outweighs the benefit. Please let him speak.

If experienced leadership is beneficial, voters will approve an extension of four years. If not, they will reject it. Avoiding the ballot prevents the evaluation from happening at all. Finally, a ballot measure provides a clear legislative outcome base of the will of the people, whether to reaffirm existing limits or approve a four-year change. In short, putting a in short, putting a term limit extension on the ballot does not weaken term limits. It reinforces democracy by letting the voters decide whether you still make that sense. The fact is you guys don't represent the other 90,000 are out there. So I say

so please. So my my my substitute motion is to move forward with the ballot measure and as

that's my motion. So before a second, I want to do I want to say something to to yours. You've had four terms. You're asking for three more. You've had four more than most of us. So um if any of my colleagues want to second that and we'll just take that to a vote. But we have a we have a motion and a second on the first the first motion. May I speak? Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, can you please show some decorum, please?

Uh, as I mentioned, I've had two separate uh 8-year stints on city council, 2004 to 12. I was out for six years and back from 2018 to the end of this coming term. Um when I left the first time, I did not envision coming back. I I served eight years and I moved on. Um what what drove me to come back was the people who approached me and said, "Will you please come back?" And for those who have been here for a while, you may recall we had a very very dysfunctional city council. And people said, "We this is not Lake Forest. We can't have this." and my wife and I spent a lot of time thinking about whether we wanted to get back into the fray and we chose to do it and I did take out an incumbent. So this idea that incumbency is always a guarantee is not true. Not true. So it can be done. Um and so I've spent a lot of time back and forth on this issue over the last week few weeks on on um since we've heard about it from uh when it was motion was put forward. I personally feel like I am fine with the two terms I have. I want the one thing I think that should be in place but it may not happen here. I think there should be a cooling off period and an opportunity to come back and I'll tell you why. Because that's my experience and I think it's been proven that there is value in it. So if somebody served eight years and stepped aside and if during that subsequent four years they chose to come back because maybe things had gotten really uncomfortable and ugly at the dis then they can come

back and say hey maybe we need a reset. That's my story and it seems to have merit and you will find there are quite a few other councils that have this cooling off period where you sit out a cycle and then come back. So it's the lifetime ban piece that I struggle with the most. Um so let let somebody sit out for four years and if they want to come back more choice for the people. I think that would be welcomed and in my case I was able to come back and I think things improved uh on our council in terms of the decorum that we have up here. Having said that, I will not support this initiative [applause] because I am while I struggle with it, I appreciate the fact that the people said two terms is appropriate. And again, the thing I struggle with is the lifetime ban because I think we're missing an opportunity here that we may regret. And unfortunately, there's this idea that we need younger people and fresh ideas. You can also have really bad things happen, too. So, it's not a guarantee that the grass is always greener up ahead. It's a nice sound bite, but it may not be true. So, with that, I will not support this initiative. So, [applause]

so no, I'm saying I

I'm I agree with Council Member Tedimemer that I think we should have a cooling off period. However, this should be voted on in November with everything else. I I struggled with this term limits uh initiative because I've I I admire Council Member Tedmer. He by far is the best council member I've I've ever met. And so I I I wished I could be well I I can never be as smart as him, but I wished I could be half the council member he is. and he does bring a lot to the table, but the people have spoken. And so, Mr. City Attorney, are we able to draft something? Uh, you know, maybe a subsequent motion. I know we already have a motion in a second, but if I can amend my emotion or my motion, my motion to us drafting something up for the November election to have a cooling off period.

Thank you, mayor. As I understand your question, um, your motion stands, which is to receive and file. You would add to that motion or request that at a subsequent date we bring back language for a possible ballot measure to add a cooling off period. This would not extend term limits, but would potentially put on the ballot a cooling off period of two or four years. I I heard four years. We'd bring that back before the November election for potential placement on the general election in November. Is that correct? Mayor, if I could, it's four years because with districts, anybody would have to sit out four years. It was two when we were at large, but it's four year

cooling off period is what we're talking about.

So, I mean, I I know this is it's not going to make everybody happy. I like I said, I struggled and um actually last meeting I was my head was in a fog thinking about this. Uh, I think Mark's a great council member and we're losing a great council member and I'm pretty sure whoever runs in this place is going to do just as good a job. Um, but I would love to re be able to revisit because I'm telling you right now after these three years I don't want to sit up here again. I want to sit over there and make fun of people. So, um, if we're able to do that, I I'd like I I' I'll amend my my motion to receive and file and bring this back to another meeting.

I'll second that. So, with that being said, uh, I've got a motion in a second. Let's vote. The motion is to receive and file. We're not going to do ex we're not going to extend term limits, but we will have a cooling off period of four years if a council member wants to run four years after their term is ended. If I can just clarify, the motion is for staff to bring back at a subsequent meeting a possible ballot measure for November

or possible placement on the ballot. Yes. With that that cooling off period November and the will vote for on it, right? What's that? When the staff bring that back, we'll have to vote on it. Sure. Okay. Yeah. Right. That's just that's just for us to talk about. then you're welcome to come and give us your thoughts at that time, but right now we're receiving and file this item and please vote. [applause]

Thank you, council members. I do need one more. Thank you. And that motion passes unanimously. Okay, madame city clerk, we'll move on to item number 12. Madam city clerk, would you please read the item? The title of item number 12 is the approval of Kavanaaugh Park Concept Plan. Madame City Manager, would you please introduce this item? Mr. Mayor, um I'd like to request that we pull this item for our next meeting. I'd like to uh have the opportunity to add some more information about budget and possible funding sources.

I'll Okay, we can do that. I'd like to do that. My colleagues. Yeah. Okay. Yep. I'd just like to request that the city clerk ask if anybody was here to comment on it, we'd probably want to take their public comment. Sure. Is there anybody Do you have any any request to speak on item number 12? Yes, we do have a public speaker for item number 12 and that's Andrew O' Conor. Ladies and gentlemen, if you could please take your conversations outside.

So, we just kicked the can down the alley is what we just did. No, we didn't. Nothing got accomplished. Tenmer a good councilman really dude OCTA OC street car three fires you sit there like you're now like a durian Mr. Okconor this is item number 12 it's the um Kavanaaugh park

thank you so Kavanaaugh park I downloaded um I think it's a great idea that we're moving it But quite honestly, when I went through and looked at it, because I'm a numbers guy, I was in director of sales for 20 years. I looked at the bottom line and it's 10,893,000. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. Then I went back and I looked at I'm like, well, 810,893,000. Maybe we're getting [clears throat] restrooms. We got to put restrooms in. Maybe we have to put retaining walls in things like that. And I look back at it, it's just simple construction. It's an open space that's there now. Yeah, we're going to move some dirt around and mobilization of that dirt is a half a million dollars. Seriously, just just to move that dirt around to make for a playground area, soil cut, berm removal, $1 million. Seriously, $1 million to soil cut and berm removal. Come on. It's open space. You go in there with a backhoe and do what you have to do. I don't see Did I I'm looking for retaining walls. Are we building retaining walls around this thing? I don't see it. I don't see any heavy construction. I like the layout. I like the location. It's great. But God God love me. 10 mill almost 11 million to build this thing. And then we look at a fence at the basketball court. $11,925.

Fence at the basketball court. Wow. Low wall 22,000. Playground equipment itself. Playground equipment $1,250,000. Are you serious? Come on. Who's looking at these numbers? Picnic tables. We're going to get 16 of them. And they cost $3,000 each. $3,000 for a picnic table. I know they're heavy duty. I know they're steel. They have to be anchored. They cost $3,000 each. Hard to believe.

Thank you for your comments. Madame City Clerk, we'll move on to item number 13. Madam City Clerk, can you please read the title to item number 13? Yes, Mayor. The title of item number 13 is the update of the analysis of the industrial and business park inventory and trends study. Thank you. Madam city manager, can you please introduce this item?

Thank you, Mayor. I'd like to invite Ariana Young, our management analyst from our community development department to introduce what we'll be talking about tonight. Good evening council. Tonight consultant Cosmon Companies will give a presentation on a preliminary an sorry preliminary analysis of industrial and business park inventory and trends. Before handing it over to Cosmont, I will provide a quick background to bring us up to speed. In October of 2025, the city hired Cosmon to conduct an analysis of industrial and business park inventory and trends with the goal of identifying Lake Forest position and assessing opportunities in the southern Orange County market. The project kicked off that [snorts] same month, including an introductory meeting between Cosmont and city staff, a tour of industrial properties in the city, as well as routine check-in meetings. As of January, preliminary market research has been conducted. Those findings will be presented tonight by Cosmont President Kenhira and Vice President Andrew Perez. With that, I'll hand it over. Good evening, mayor and council members. My name is Andrew Perez. I am and I'm here on behalf of Cosmon Companies. As mentioned by Ariana, we kicked off the project in October of 2025. We met with city staff toward key industrial areas and have since conducted several stakeholder uh discussions with brokers and subject matter experts on industrial

in the flex space. This presentation tonight is designed to share our initial observations and gather feedback before we continue with the remainder of our analysis and move into drafting the final report. We do expect to be back here in the next few months to present a summary of our findings. Our analysis is separated into eight key tasks spanning a six-month timeline. As I previously mentioned, we are underway with many of these tasks already. The study area spans 10 zones as you can see on the screen across Lake Forest which include Baker Ranch, Foothill Ranch, and Pacific Commerce Center and others. terms of the analysis and at least initial findings that we have so far. Uh I wanted to take a brief moment to clarify the difference between industrial and flex space since I'm going to be using those terms quite a bit. Industrial space is typically used for heavy manufacturing, warehousing or distribution with high ceilings and large loading areas. Those are the industrial buildings that we're typically used to seeing large big boxes. Uh while flex space combines light industrial functions with higher ratio of office space or showroom use, offering more versatile layouts uh and finishes. Flex buildings are usually more appealing to startups, tech firms, serviceoriented companies that need a hybrid of office space and operational space. They typically have more office space and often are called business parks in some cases. So when looking at the entire county of Orange, the market has a sizable industrial and flex inventory at over 305 million square feet. South County alone, which includes Lake Forest, comprises just over 47 million square feet or 15% of the total county inventory. Unlike other OC subm markets such as North County or the airport area, South County is less connected to logistics uh and like rail or freight hubs or or even the airport itself. And access to these hubs drives the type of industrial demand we see in Lake Forest and elsewhere in the county.

As many of you know, Lake Forest industrial identity is rooted in the legacy of El Toro. The Marine Corps Air Station opened in 1943, and the bases historic flight paths shaped land uses in surrounding areas, particularly Baker Ranch and Pacific Commerce Center. Because of the noise contour established at that time, which you can see in the yellow on the right hand side, these zones were designated for commercial and industrial use rather than residential development. As a result, the city experienced the creation of many skilled jobs and businesses located in smaller to midsize buildings as opposed to companies housed in large-scale logistics warehouses like those found in the Inland Empire or Long Beach. The historical zoning foundation helped attract a strong and diverse employer base. Today, the city's top employers include industrial and commercial businesses like Oakley with 1400 employees, followed by Schneider Electric, Spectrum Brands, Cox Communications, and Bal Seal Engineering. Most importantly of this list, nine out of the 10 of the employers are in the industrial study areas like Foothill Ranch, Pacific Commerce Center, and Baker Ranch. just again underscoring how important this particular area uh is to the the city itself. Now turning to recent market dynamics as of the last quarter of 2025, we see that Lake Force asking rents averaged just over 20 bucks a square foot annually, which has doubled in the last 10 years, indicating a very strong industrial market and is above the county average of $19.26. Vacancy was at 5.2% 2% back in November, which is relatively healthy, but as of today, I just checked this morning, it's actually now at 3.7%, which is uh indicate indicating a very tight market. It's very difficult to find space uh within the city. Um and so the city has also recently seen positive net absorption of approximately 51,000 square feet in the past month. That just

means that there's more tenants moving in than vacating the spaces. So, it's a notable improvement from even just a few months ago. When we zoom out to compare the city with other south county submarkets, Lake Forest and Foothill Ranch collectively represent the second largest industrial inventory in the region at 9.6 million square ft. Only the Irvine spectrum is larger. This confirms Lake Forest's strength as the key as a key industrial node within the region, one that offers a substantial home base for employers that focus on skilled jobs like engineering and R&D. Now looking at building sizes, uh the building size distribution over half of Lake Forest industrial and flex buildings are under 50,000 square feet. So again, kind of smaller to midsize buildings. This demonstrates the market is oriented towards those small and mid-size companies as well that attracts those those buildings. Uh there are owner users typically, smaller manufacturers, local distributors. And this is all rather than kind of the large scale tenants that we're typically accustomed to seeing in hundreds of thousands of square feet boxes. In fact, in Lake Forest, only 12% of your inventory, which is three buildings of the city's inventory is over 300,000 square ft. All three are concentrated in the Foothill Ranch area, one on Town Center Drive and two along Icon. The largest one being Oakley, which is about 579,000 square ft. the other buildings are occupied by multi multiple smaller users. This market in particular, as we spoke to brokers, we asked them why is this? Most of the time they've said that even though a larger building might get built, it's actually more common to demise the building into two or three different spaces to attract a smaller user. Again, those owner users who are local who like to have smaller spaces. If they want the larger spaces, they typically go to the airport area or even North County. As I mentioned, we talked to

stakeholders. We engaged brokers and architects for qualitative insights. We thought this was a really important part of our analysis and really getting critical feedback from those who are on the ground and who are actually transacting in this space. They emphasize that Lake Forest is not a logistics market and doesn't compete with Inland Empire port cities and that's okay. Uh but it is important for us to understand that and why that is. Instead, the city attracts smaller firms in R&D and light manufacturing. Owner users are particularly drawn to the area due to its skilled labor force and businessfriendly environment. While many buildings are not classified as class A, which is more of a function of how tall the building is, the properties in this market are still seen as highly functional, well-built buildings. And there are very high and they're very in high demand right now at this point, as you can tell by the 3.7% vacancy rate that I mentioned earlier. Potential changes to the city's future inventory will likely emerge from more of a a redevelopment standpoint from the aging stock, especially this flex and office buildings um that have become a little bit less in demand as a hybrid work environment is now more pre uh prominent. So, we're just wrapping up here, but before we do, um we did want to get some feedback from you all as part of our next steps. We're also here tonight to seek your feedback and direction to sh help help shape our ongoing analysis and deliverables. We have three questions here on the screen that we'd welcome your thoughts on before I move on to next steps and close out the uh my presentation. So for the first one, um we'd like to get your feedback if there's any general thoughts or comments on the preliminary findings thus far that we've presented. Again, more to come in the next few months, but so far, was there anything that um you would like to provide us feedback or comments on? So [clears throat] I I guess the feedback for the analysis is the

um the the vacancy rate that it's it's it's good. Do we know what what type of income that generates for the city? those those those buildings do that that's definitely going to be part of our analysis to get the the number itself. It's definitely high but at this point we don't know exactly the amount but we will have it in the report. All right. Thank you. Nobody else has any questions. Okay. Okay.

Any other thoughts to the questions above as well? any I think even the the last one in particular are there any emerging market segments we wanted to take a closer look at such as medical manufacturing anything that surprised you in terms of the data that we've presented so far thank you mayor what about AI related businesses is that a new segment that cities are looking at and what's the impact of that in industrial and flex areas

yeah absolutely I think that's one of the things we're seeing and in our discussions with brokers and architects uh the more flexible the building it is, the access to utilities that it has uh is really critical for the type of tenant that might come in there because sometimes what we're also seeing is that it's not just AI, it could be a data center, it could be a function that requires utility but isn't AI related and so it needs to still have that flexibility. But that is something that we're seeing even just down the street off bake um in the Irvine spectrum area. They're building now spaces just like that. So with some of those industries being energy hogs, does our infrastructure support that? Is that part of the analysis too to see if anybody that has a specific energy need is able to suffice in our city?

Exactly. Yeah, that will be part of the analysis. We'll identify those from an infrastructure standpoint. Um how is this the city serving industrial areas now and then what changes might need to be made to serve those types of tenants. And part of the analysis falls to be how to attract businesses to our vacancies that we have here. Yeah, we will look into that as well. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. [clears throat] So, madam city clerk, have we re received any request to speak on this item? We do have one public comment and that is Andrew O' Conor.

Want to pick up yourself? You just leave it here. Well, I don't feel I don't want there. Hey, buddy. What's up? Last time I saw you, you run across the parking lot. Well, the Cosmon consultant guys were back in town, huh? That's pretty good. Let's go back to 2024, shall we? Remember this document? City manager right here. You all have a copy of it. Award a contract for shopping center analysis consulting services for the grand amount of $92,000. Scope of work include attracting new restaurants and stores. Mr. Cosb, can you name the new stores you attracted to Lake Forest under this consulting agreement?

Mr. Okconor, can you please direct your comments to us?

Sorry. Well, mayor, can you tell me what new stores came into Lake Forest for this for $92,000? Can you, city manager? Of course you can. Of course you can. I told you that in the beginning. This thing was a was a fraud. He came up, remember December, you had that meeting and I told you then all his powerpoints and all that stuff. They already have that in their database. That's what they have. They tricked you guys. They were so dumb when they made the presentation. They had another city up there in the lefthand corner. Remember when I told you that in December? I said, "Hey, by the way, the kid whoever did this, he forgot to put I think it said La Hav up there." And should have said Lake Forest. Guys didn't get it. But for $92,000, they told us we're going to get new restaurants. Nothing happened. So now they're back. They want another buy the apple. And this time they want $85,000. Well, sitting over here in the corner is Gail Acriman. We pay her $228,000 to do the same work. And what he just explained to us is once again general information that they just pulled and put in front of you guys. And you're like, "Really? Look at all that." They still haven't come to any conclusion. If you look what the Irvine company's doing down the Bay Parkway, they're putting some massive stuff in. What are we doing? What are we doing right here along Civic Center? Why are all those buildings empty? What happened to the consulting business right there on the corner? ASB is gone. There's four empty buildings in there. What the hell's going on? Is that part of your study, Mr. Cosmo? Is it? Of course not. So, these guys are going to dup us for 86. They only got us for 92. Is that a good way to run a city?

That's almost $200,000 out the window. And but you tell us, oh, what a well-run city it is and all that. It's a bunch of baloney. Absolutely a bunch of baloney. You know it. I know it, but you won't admit it. That we paid these guys back in 2021 $92,000. And what did we get for it? What did we get for $92,000? Thank you for your comments.

I did have one more slide just to close us out here. So, as I mentioned, additional market research is still underway. Interviews will continue with brokers and architects uh that are familiar obviously with the industrial and flex spaces here in the city. and we'll begin to draft the full report and our findings to date. Uh once we finalize that, we'll return to present our complete analysis and recommendations to the city council for for your consideration. If there's any other questions, thank you for your time. Well, thank you. I'm sorry. I thought you were done. That's why I brought the the speakers up. So, thank you for your time. Thank you.

So, we'll move on to item number 14. Madam City Clerk, can you please read the title for item 14? Yes. Title of item number 14 is the annual review of a city council policies. Madam city manager, can you please introduce this item? Thank you, mayor. Uh, tonight T is going our city clerk is going to give us an overview of where we left off on this item. This is a followup for your discussion that you had at your last council meeting.

Thank you, city manager Rose and Mayor and council members. Yes, this is a followup from the item that you tabled at the last council meeting. Um, so next slide, please. Uh, so at the last meeting, you had no changes um to these um to these 15 uh council policies. Um so let's go to the next slide. uh you had no additional changes to the proposed changes that we had to the audit committee policy and the recognitions policy. So the the language in that all the proposed changes for those for that language is is staying the same. And next slide. Um we did clean up some of the language in the travel and reimbursement policy. Uh so it is uh more definitive in that uh the the counting of the mileage starts at the civic center to the authorized function. And next slide. And then here uh the proposed new policies did have the most revisions that city council wanted to revisit. Um so for the AB 1234 reporting uh we did add uh 2005 to the title. Um, we added uh the the date the bill was passed. Um, and we cleaned up the um the meeting definition and procedure sections uh to clarify you know what what the meetings are and um to clarify that we are talking about meetings attended at the expense of the city. Um and further we also uh deleted some language from the procedure and transparency and accountability sections to be further aligned with AB1234 requirements. Um lastly, the city

council meeting management policy. Um there was uh um uh a couple of deletions of uh public comment sections because we already have language that delineates that we don't have a limit on um public comment. So the sections on extending public comment period um or or the the mayor having um uh um having the you know getting to extend that that period. We just deleted that because again so long as we have um speaker cards we will have a public comment period. Um and in addition we also added language uh about how speakers may not transfer their three minutes to another speaker. So those those three minutes um are for that speaker alone. So with that um uh council you may exercise discretion in uh those in those policies and I'm here to answer any questions you may have. Okay, before we do that, I want to see if we have any speakers for this.

We do. We have one public commenter and that is Andrew O' Conor. So, I've been talking about this for months about recognizing residents who, you know, diligently look around the community and see things that are happening. You have a website we spend money on. It's called As Lake Forest. There are different tiles that you can go on, put information in. I think it works great. It's a it's a really good system. It makes our our city more efficient. I, you know, even let Mr. Serbo know about it. I even texted him this weekend. I called U OC Animal Care because there was a dead raccoon on Portola Glenn Ranch. You get that, Mr. Mr. Serbo? He nodded yes. But you know what? It's funny. He didn't have the courtesy to answer back to me like, "Thanks, Mr. Okconor." Don't you think it would be kind of nice? A resident like text you and said, "Hey, you know, I just called the animal care." But that's servo. So I think I deserve a certificate and it's Scott Voice agree right Scott sent you the picture. [clears throat] Remember bagels and brew December 16th with Bob Hollesclaw and your friend and what you said I'll get the certificate made. Well Mr. Councilman Voits did you get it made or is that another lie? My record 2023 I submitted 260. 2024 348 2025 264 I meet the criteria under right here purpose

right there it's there consideration for recognition of individuals by issuance of a certificate which most immediately affects the city of Lake Forest I meet it under definitions number four mayor Pano certificates a certificate is a type of recognition of an individual UAL a certificate is prepared responsive type of recognition requested types of certificate recognition appreciation appointment I met the criteria so why is it this that it's not coming forth no way to me I'm sure there's other residents in the city that should get this you pray them up every week you bring people up hey you this and that you can do clean like force in the weekend for a couple hours and you're handing out certificates But Ask Lake Forest, you can't get a certificate for that. Doesn't make sense. So, I plead my case tonight for you guys to to think about it and take action on it and say, "Yeah, you're right. Good idea. Let's go forward. If you don't, it shows who you are." If you do, it shows what Lake Forest is. But saying no shows you.

Thank you for your comments. So I'll bring it back to my my colleagues. So uh if you go back to slide uh well where item 20 that right there. So travel I know that when we when we brought this up it was 40 miles but and I did it from originally from where I knew where people lived to say for instance Long Beach Convention Center and I came up with two different routes. So from city hall it's 3.4 or 34 miles but if a route goes up to the 710 it's 41 miles. So it puts it over. So I do not think that Long Beach is too far to where or far enough to where we need uh a hotel room. So I would either have the have the language in here that says to 50 miles or the shorter of the two, you know, because if somebody wants to take a scenic route, it's higher. And I I did it from council member Tedmer's house. It went from 33.7 to 40. From council member Voit's uh house, it was 34.8 to 46. And then from my house, it was 32 miles and it went to 42 miles. So depending on which Google or ways you use, it's going to take you out. So either we can put the language that Long Beach Convention Center is doesn't doesn't uh meet the threshold for lodging or we can just say 50 miles. So that's my recommendation for the change here.

I I believe that staff has to find the shortest route, not the longest route. So it's it's incumbent they choose this the shortest route. So there is no scenic route option. Okay. So I'm just saying that's the way I think it's supposed to work that that they're supposed to do that as a as a Right. And so but I I guess what what I don't I and you know I get what you're saying but I don't want T have to figure out okay what what's sort of now if we put city hall from city hall it's 34 miles and that's what you get right. Okay. So sure go ahead.

Yeah. Um and that that is correct because the starting point has to be city hall. This is the destination from start to wherever you're going, but it has to be city hall is where you start from. Thank you. All right. So then the rest is what's the the recommendation is to um I'll move staff recommendation to approve. I'll second that. Let's vote. All right. Very good. Thank you. And that motion passes unanimously.

Thank you. And that brings us to item number 15, capital improvement plan update. Madame city Well, I already read it. Madam city clerk, can you please read it again? Sure. The title of item number 15 is the capital improvement plan update. Okay. Do you have I'm sorry. Do we have a a speaker card for We did have um a speaker for item number 14. Um but Mr. Okconor already gave his public comment for for this item. So now we're moving on to item number 15.

Okay. So go to go ahead Nas. You don't have a card for it.

Good evening, mayor and council members. Uh I'm back here tonight to um update you on the city's capital improvement program or CIP for the third quarter for the fourth quarter of 2025. As you're familiar with, our current program includes 58 projects for a total of 54.5 million. And as always, we start with what city team has completed since the last quarterly update. Um, two Heroes Park projects have been completed. Um, sports field renovations was a notice of completion was uh brought for your approval tonight and Heroes Park electrical repairs and LED lighting will be brought to this council on the second meeting in February. We have also completed three traffic signal uh synchronization projects in December and January that are listed here. And this council approved a co-op meeting with city of Irvine in November for Alton Parkway and Irvine Boulevard intersection improvements. The staff is coordinating with city of Irvine to complete our obligation for this project. Other projects completed earlier were presented to you in more details in the third quarterly update and are listed here. In summary, we have um completed 13 projects from our CIP program so so far for investments back to the community of $10 million. Now moving to projects in construction. We have 12 projects in various phases of construction. The three lift them intersection improvement projects, Leysus Boulevard and Rockville Boulevard intersection as

well as Lake Forest Drive and Geronim Road intersection and Lake Forest Drive and Rancho Parkway intersections are all substantially complete. We have some long lit traffic equipment items and with tentative delivery date in February. Once we get those equipment, we can install and uh file the notice of completion for these three. We also have the restroom renovations and vintage park renovations ongoing. For restroom renovations, the paints the paint was completed um earlier uh in late 2025. Currently, the fixture installation is ongoing. And for vintage park, the stair repairs were completed uh earlier in late 2025. And at the moment, the slope landscaping improvements is ongoing as of this week. Um you're well aware of uh Bake Tribuko construction ongoing uh at the intersection and it's in full swing. We anticipate construction completion sometime in summer this upcoming summer. And as the construction for Bake Tribuko intersection is um tapering off, we will start the El Toro package uh construction for the four projects listed here. Um currently the team is working on potholeing permitting and long lead procure uh items procurement. We also the council has also awarded the lake forest sports park edgeback replacement earlier in October as well as uh foothill ranch box cross ring installation uh contract in December. And these two projects are currently in procurement and in a coordination phase. We have three projects in pre-awward phase. Community outreach results for pickle ball court installation at El Toro Park will be brought back to this council in the next meeting for

discussion. We have open bids for the CDBG funded APS phase five last week and we have also opened our bids for sidewalk repairs in u late December and we're working on award of contracts for those two projects. Um, good news is that we got really good pricing on our sidewalk repairs. So, that's uh great for our next upcoming project, which is our citywide park concrete trail repairs. Uh, we are planning to advertise for this project in February. And we are also working on preparing the package for slurry seal zoning and civic center slurry seal zone for um advertisement for construction advertisement within the next three months. We also have seven projects in design. Three of the projects are the intersection improvement projects. These are the long-term projects that include coordination with multiple agencies that um we have talked about before. And on the street improvement side, we are working on design for arterial wall enhancement in Southwest Lake Forest as well as the bake resurfacing project. And we are also working on nature park, lake forest park and beach peachoot park improvements. There are currently five projects in pre-esign phase that staff is actively working on um and they're listed here. I just want to mention that uh for Kavanaaugh park the community outreach phase is now complete. We have a presentation coming back to council next meeting. And based on the conceptual design developed during the community outreach, the RFP is currently in progress. And this uh concludes my report. Um and I'm thank you for your time. I know it's been a long night and I'm available to

answer any questions, colleagues. So, um, actually I saw the the bathrooms at Mountain View Park. They had put a little, uh, barrier so people just don't peer in when they're doing their business. So, uh, thank you for that. And my colleagues have nothing. Thank you for the presentation. This is receiving file. You're welcome. Which takes us to the city manager report. Madam city manager, do you have anything to report? I have nothing further. Thank you. Okay. Now we'll go to council comments. Council member Tedimemer.

Thank you. Uh I attended the chamber mixer on the 8th and uh had fun at Snowfest on December 10th. That's it. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Council Member Voites. Sorry I missed your swearing in, but I was in the hospital. So, um nothing further. Thank you, council member. You I have nothing further.

Mayor Prom Serbo. Thank you. And we talked a little bit about wildfire mitigation and I was happy to see in walking my dog at Concourse Park that we've got contractors from Edison that are out there clearing paths and making sure that they have access to that and they've been doing some nice work out there for a long time. So just one example of uh keeping the residents safe here with that particular issue that's in front of everyone's minds. Little shout out to Patricia who takes care of our you know our meals from time to time. And she was warning me though that there was some kind of a salad, you know, leaf uh lettuce outbreak or something, but she did come back and just reminded us to remain calm. Thank you.

Oh god,

I'm glad I moved away. Uh so um I too attended the the chamber mixer and a couple of weeks ago uh there was a labors of love um project that we've had um where we went and stained uh a veterans widow's fence. Uh, I also went to Snowfest and I [clears throat] went to the coffee chat with the chamber at El Poo Loco on El Toro Road and I went to a premeating for an event called OC around the table which is uh they're trying to make this potluck which uh they're trying to break the world's record and there's a bunch of cities that are involved and um our chamber is is looking at getting involved And so hopefully it's happening in September. So hopefully you'll hear more from it. And then tomorrow night we have the the chamers's new business reception. And then I think on Thursday is the Etnes um skate park uh meeting at the sports park. So with that being said, I'll adjourn this meeting.

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