Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

He's going to make Okay. All rise for flag salute. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Z. Okay. Roll call, please.

Yes. Chair K, here. Uh, Vice Chair Balding here. Commissioner Miola here. Commissioner Rogers here. Commissioner Adamson here. Commissioner Newman is not present. Is that an excuse or unexcused? Uh, did she make any contact to reach out in any way? We were notified that she wouldn't be here. No reason was given.

No reason. Okay, let's mark this then as unexcused. Okay, I would ask for citizen influence on non-aggenda items, but since we have no one sitting in the audience, that would indicate that no citizen input at this point in time. Chair, can I bring up an an item for us to add to to new business to talk about? By all means, Commissioner Addison, what would you like to talk about under new business? I

would like to to have a discussion with commission regarding uh multiple units and modes or the MFUS I'm sorry a lot like to discuss ponds new Ak but okay we will we will certainly put that on the agenda see where it goes if we can go from there

thank you very much Okay. Uh, has everybody had a chance to read through the October 16th meeting minutes? I'm thinking that the dates that we've got on here are correct. You know, September 18th and all that, various approvals, recommendations. U, anybody have any comments? Things that stood out that might need to be changed or tweaked or did it capture what we wanted to have it captured? I believe they captured everything pretty much. So, we have we still have the the uh recording of what was

No, there was no recording last meeting uh because we had the dual meetings and we had technical issues with uh council session. Okay. So, it's fine. Okay. So, we've got our written summary record. Motion that we approve the minutes from last month's meeting. I second. Okay. Kenny, roll calls. Uh, Commissioner. Hi, Mr. Building. Hi, Commissioner Mola. Hi, [clears throat] Commissioner Rogers. Hi, Commissioner Adamson. Hi.

Okay. Okay. And then tonight we have it's like continuation of our work session uh LA 202501 allowing mobile food units. I assume everybody had a chance to read through the summary that Jim provided to us. Looks like he's not only provided right but the italic or the bold strike italics of what the new regulations will look like. an addition that looks like he prepared uh what would be the hard copy of what it would end up being as well. So we've got the bulk strike that stands out and then how it would appear in the book. Is that a fair summary? Yes,

there I have a couple of points that we need to or I'd like to have us discuss on the supplemental standards and I have a Yeah, I have a just so not knowing where we'll take this. I have a couple of things that stuck out that I have questions on and it sounds like you got a couple things. So, I guess let's just go around the table and if somebody saw something that we want to have at least just a brief comment on, we can address that and go from there. Am I able to do

start here? Take. So, Commissioner Adams, take it away. Uh the on page 311 231702 spoke item B. It states that the mobile food unit is not applicable if the mobile food unit is operating under a special event permit, park permit, or other city permit. I also had the same exact question. I had the same curiosity. Okay, we're we're confused. So maybe the question would be is it covered? Jim would know. Jim might have an idea. Is this brought in just from boiler plate from somewhere else? I don't remember discussing this aspect or is there something that we need to actually carve out.

Well, typically when you have something like a mobile food unit, then they're going to be coming in and being around you hope for a while, a long while even maybe year after year. and you have regulations for that. But if there is a Fourth of July parade or okay whatever something of the park

yeah something that is regulated by the city council through some other permit system then you don't necessarily want them to have to meet all these standards. They would meet whatever standards are required for that special event. So, uh, I guess I don't know. Is there still a Fourth of July parade or event or something? Bolster one for the Fourth of July, dedicate a flag and a Yeah, usually almost every city has something of some sort.

So, this could this could be kind of a thing where let's say there is a it could be a a Christmas event. Okay, we got a tree lighting. Maybe it expands at some point, becomes a tree lighting that takes uh a weekend, you know, takes a Saturday or something at the kids and maybe somebody wants to

bring in a mobile mobile food cart just for that person. This gives a pathway for that to happen where maybe they're issued that permit for the day or for a two-day or the same kind of instance where they would get a they would need a permit for like a birthday party at the big park here. someone brought in a food truck. If if the if the city council doesn't have rules and regulations they want to establish for the operation of that food truck in that location, do we need to make something in special permits or add to special permits that would provide the pro provide at least health and safety issues? Yeah, I don't know if anything, you know, like a birthday party at one of the city parks and they want to bring in a food truck. I don't know if that has presented problems. Uh I'd have to check with uh I don't know, Kennedy, you've been here just a few years, but has there been anything like that where all of a sudden Monday morning there's a raft of trash on the ground in the park? Well, we've never, in my year, allowed food trucks. So, we would if we're wine, we would just tell them that's not

okay. Allowed. Yeah. So, we're we're kind of we're moving in the direction kind of moving in a direction that we're allowing people into the city, maybe we should with this amendment that we're doing here to maybe make an amendment to Well, yeah. What I'm thinking of is a lot of cities when they have their usually just one big city event, festival, whatever you want to call it. Uh the organization, sometimes it's chamber of commerce, sometimes if it's a bigger city, it's the city park department

that is the organizer of it. And so I'm thinking of Toalatin when I was there for all those years in the Talon crawfish festival and the Chamber of Commerce ran it and you know two stages and three different parks were involved and all kinds of stuff going on and they would turn in their application material in the spring and say this is what's going on at all these different places and the city departments would review it and then the city council would approve it. And so for a smaller city like Lafayette, if somebody had something small going on like in a a wedding in a park, I guess right now and given these rules, the city would say, "Well, uh, you'd either have to go through this process or you would not be allowed." And so then they'd be looking for a paved area to put the truck and all that kind of stuff. And so I don't know if they would be able to meet these standards at whatever given venue is the subject area, but uh I don't know if the city I'm thinking, you know, just you know like Kaiser has a Kaiser Fest and the Kaiser Iris Festival and stuff like that and uh there's a big parade too and so it's the city council that approves things And uh the one of the big venues is Kaiser Rapids Park over by the Wamut River and it's the city council that approves everything with that and they have a separate municipal

code section that deals with how the city approves and allows all of the events and everything that happened at Kaiser Rapids Park. Do we have anything like that? I don't think so because if they did, the city wouldn't be saying no, you don't get a food truck at your wedding. So Kennedy, do you is there any been anything in your experience where um for any type of special event, you know, any any form, any standard form or anything that the city has that you would fill out?

Um not specifically for mobile food I'm aware of. We did just do like a special special use permit for um like a beer cart that we had at harvest fest. So we could do something similar to that where they submit all of the requirements or the things that they'd be doing to meet these requirements for health and safety regulations. be sure that they had um any of um food authorizations. That sounds like authority per minute and then Brandon would then be able to that's that's more specifically what I'm looking for is we have someone come in for a day

and they're doing a special thing for a for a special party or some party that the city's putting on for a couple of days. they they at least need to need to to have the city permit to do it. They need need to be able to meet the health and safety requirements. They need to they need to have uh an ability to maintain and and secure their their green water, our great water, and they need to they need to make sure they dispose of their their trash and waste and feed them after. So So it sound sounds like even though we might not have anything specific at this point, it sounds like this section B is good and then it provides that carve out and then that would allow the city to develop

a separate a separate appropriate permit to cover that and the the puts the city in a position that you know whether it's whether it's next week or two years from now at least it gives the carve out for that to exist as opposed to coming back and going oh well we don't have that so okay [clears throat] okay next I have nothing more until 231703 in. What are you on? 41. And at the bottom and what item and

I'm sorry. M I had that same question. So yes.

Yeah. Because to me I mean I can under Okay. I can understand this if it's pulled in from just somewhere in general, but it's like two parking space must be provided for each mobile food unit on a property. Depending upon the size of the property, if you get a property large enough that's set up to hold three MFUs, then you have six spaces. And with six spaces, doesn't that take up a lot of space perhaps that you might not want to have consumed on the on the lot? It it kind of goes hand in hand with on page five all 11 item two that we're allowing them to have uh three temporary covered eating areas. So they have three temporary covered eating areas with one truck or three trucks. You've got two parking spaces.

I can I can I can see allowing a queue makes perfect sense to me. M not so much. Well, yeah, it it makes sense to have the the sitting places, but you need to have parking for those people that you have the seating spaces for. Otherwise, you're going to have parking someplace else. Yeah, but you have but you have you have on potential on street parking and

if you assume that each cart all day is going to have maximum number of customers. The idea with the two spaces was somebody's coming in, they're already there and they're parked and then someone else that's coming in, they wouldn't necessarily need to park right in front of the cart, the truck that they're going to. They might park some in front of some other truck and walk over, but even though it says two spaces per truck, the six spaces aren't dedicated. Two to that truck, two to that truck. Okay. So,

but if you have the maximum number of people, you could have, you know, 15 cars coming in all at once. So then we would need to be requiring five spaces per cart and that probably wouldn't be needed for 90% of the time. If if we're if they're having three seating spaces, allowing up to three allowing up to three, right? Would they not need to have a parking space for each covered area that they have that we're allowing two spaces plus one for every covered area?

Right. But trying to match up with who's going to come in by and not use a covered area, who's going to come in with an SUV, a parent, and six kids or something, and they're going to need two of the covered little eating areas, which is why I suggested one, if they have a covered space, they have two because we have news bases. If they want to put a cupboard space out there, they want to put a dining table with with an umbrella, they need to have another space so that you can have these two spaces here and a space for the people that are going to sit there and eat their meal. That's also assuming that everyone's driving and parking there instead of walking there or maybe shopping around and parking in another grocery store lot or

Yeah. Well, it's it's a lot less than what retail space requires for for parking. But at the same time, there's a lot less requirements for a food truck than there is for a restaurant or Exactly. So, are you suggesting that we increase the amount of required parking and only we if I would suggest recommend that we add at one space for every covered table, covered eating area that they have. So that it would be we'd have the two spaces there for the people that are coming and going and at least one place for someone to park and be able to eat at the table.

That also would say then if you're doing it to how many tables there are covered spaces, they have no covered spaces. That may mean you have possibly no parking spaces. You have two parking. You have to have two and then one additional for every one additional for every I think that's overkill myself. Yep. Jim, have you is this information I'm assuming that you've taken from other cities that have allowed this? So, yeah. And it's basic what they've done. So, why are we thinking about I think overthinking this. Yeah. Well, the commission a couple of months ago said, "Let's use the Kaiser, right?" Yeah. Okay. Bottle.

Yeah. Which I So, this is primarily from Kaiser. Exactly.

And in thinking about how this works and everything, okay, if you're trying to match the number of parking spaces to the number of tables with umbrellas, for example, then is that really what you should be trying to match? Because at sometimes if you have three carts and six parking spaces, then everybody that comes in is going to be going to the one to one truck. It's popular. People love it. Hawaiian food or something. And then if you're having a real slack time, then parking won't be a problem. Whoever comes in, there will be a parking space and there won't be a problem with the covered things because if somebody has none, then the people are going to get in the truck in their vehicle and drive away. And if they have three and people don't want to use them, then okay, maybe after a while that food truck will say, "I'm only putting out two or maybe I'm only going to put out one to begin with." And you know, it's just real hard to guess what all those combinations are going to be. And so if you match or if you establish the number of spaces as a function of the number of tables, well maybe we shouldn't use the number of tables. Maybe we should get even more detailed and say, well, what if the table can seat seat six people and there's three tables? Okay, well then my gosh, that's 18 people. We better require more parking. But then that's kind of at a maximum use time. Yeah.

And 90% of the rest of the time

it's not a problem. How as as you've done your research with and specifically with Kaiser uh to the larger city uh close, you know, right there at Salem, how many of these food carts, you know, the spaces of do they actually have? Do you know that? Well, just driving through town couple of times today on River Road. There's one food truck that's Well, let me back up. At one point in town, there was a I don't know if it originally might have been a gas station, but it at one point was a tire retail tire store. And so they had the showroom and then a kind of a shed area where they would change the tires outside but under a roof. And so there's a marijuana retailer in the enclosed area and then there's a food truck that is backed in to the shed area. So it's under some cover. That's one of the food trucks. Another has a oh, let's see, one, two, three different buildings or no, two buildings and a coffee kiosk. And [clears throat] then on along the back property line, there's I think four maybe five food trucks now.

It's closer into a pod, right? Well, it's our standard. Yeah, but the Kaiser folks, they didn't worry about a pod. They just said, "Okay, here you go. How far are standards? How far apart are they? Oh, they're right up next to one another. No, no, I mean the, you know, the one at the old tire store versus uh 3/4 of a mile away. Fairly close. Um, has it seemed to work for Kaiser? And is this

Well, I go one of the stores uh has uh uh things for dogs and cats and birds and everything. So, I'm going into it Copper Creek to buy 50 lb sacks of bird food. And I rarely see anybody that's down at the food trucks. And I keep wondering to myself, how come when there was only one or two did the third one come and the fourth one?

And now I think there's a fifth one. And maybe I'm just not there at lunch or at dinner or whatever. people go to those food trucks, but uh it doesn't seem to be a problem with parking and they don't seem to have any tables out with, you know, umbrellas or anything for shade. So, I I think, you know, what what it shows right here with what I mean, we're experimenting with this that that what Jim has written down here, I think, is is perfectly fine right now. Um I think it gives the opportunity to you know have that parking but not you know demand more parking and more space and you're going to start looking at larger piece of property you know to be able to do it. Um so I this to me this looks fine right now.

Yeah. And based on Scott's concern, uh, there the two parking spaces, um, it's not as if these trucks are probably going to roll in every morning and go home every night. They're probably going to stay there for a while.

So, whoever's running it may be driving a vehicle and often there's a couple of people that are in a food truck. So, potentially you could have two people driving to get to their food truck to work. And so for three trucks that would be six spaces and so potentially the two spaces per truck won't be enough. So between Scott's concern and if you're thinking about where are the employees going to park then maybe if there was a requirement for three spaces per truck. I think I still think you know you're you still got street parking and everything that you know we allow people to park.

Yeah. And just because they need it they could put in more than what the city requires as a minimum number. Yeah. Yeah. That's the minimum. Yeah. Yeah. If they [clears throat] all three of these trucks are really popular then uh hopefully they're at a location that already has a large paved area. And if they only have six spaces, they still have paved area for the customers to come in and park on a paved area and buy their food and either leave right away or sit and eat it. So then the question is, do they have to be mark spaces? What considers it's considered space?

Yeah, spaces 9 by 18 ft. Thank you. I'm assuming they would need to be spaced otherwise people will just drive all over the site and park wherever they want. Not to say that they won't do that even, but at least if they're marked, there's some chance that hopefully they'll get the idea that if they can just pull up between those white lines, then they can park there. Even between the markers there, people. Yeah. Okay. So,

and if there becomes a problem with parking and people aren't going to the trucks, the trucks are going to figure that out and get more parking or not park in those spaces that are needed. Yeah. And they'll park away. They'll park away. Yeah, that's true, too. So yeah, I would I would be inclined to agree, you know, not sure I use a bad idea, Scott, but

no, my my initial thought when I read it is I picture food trucks and I picture them as larely accessible by people walking up to them. Perhaps they're walking up to them in conjunction with them already being in town as opposed to it being a destination unto itself. But that's probably not correct because if you do have some spaces dedicated for that, whether they be for employees or patrons, you're probably going to have some percentage of people that are drive up, pick up and go or drive up depending upon time of year and what's going on and all that. So yeah, I would say

I would agree that two piece two space is probably a good starting good start. Yeah, the point came to my mind as I was driving past the the new McMo pond down the gas station. They got five trucks in there now and there's there's maybe three parking spaces on on the side. Did they shoot themselves in the foot because they did that? We're going to find out. people are parking on the on the residential streets to get down to the bottom and they have seating there now underneath.

Yeah, it's really hard to know where these one, two or three food trucks might be. And if they're on a property that has frontage on third and there's a side street, then there could be I mean there is on street parking on third to catch overflow or maybe some people that are just going to slide into a spot, walk over, get their food, go back to their vehicle and drive away. But another site might be where there is no on street parking at all. Or if it's one of the cross streets that not that is not fully improved, well, yeah, they just pull up on the gravel and park there and go get their food and come back. So,

okay. There many variables to nail down. Yeah, that's why I think this is, you know, the way it is starting good starting point for good discussion. Next point of discussion. I only have one more item S on that page 511 mobile food unit operator which must not allow gray water to be discharged on the premises. Should we not clarify that it shouldn't be on the premises or in the storm drain or in any sanitary sewer connection that's that's open on site.

Maybe it should be should be carried away. We just tell them they shouldn't spray it out on the ground, but if there's a there's a storm drain layer, they're screwing those people. Wouldn't that be covered under the health and food safety regulations where you could put your gray water?

Yeah. The Oregon Health Authority requirements for a food truck require I forget how many gallon tank on the vehicle. uh years ago, well, maybe only three or four years ago, some of the food trucks did not have it on in the truck, but they had a tank of some sort that they would bring and set down on the ground outside and there'd be some kind of a tube or a pipe that would run out there. and then at the end of the day somehow they'd have to lift it up, get it in a truck or maybe accidentally took it over and it would spill on the site. And so anyway, uh the OA adopted or amended their food truck regulations and now all the food trucks are required to have I don't know something like a 60-gallon tank or something or gray water. What?

Anyway, can I make a suggestion? What if it just said to an approved like an approved location? Like it has to be somewhere that is approvable because what if somebody wanted to put in the infrastructure where the food trucks that were there could legally discharge on the property you'd want to to do that they need a need a the sewer hook up sewer hook into the pot and a sand filter. They would have to have a filter. Yeah, they'd need a grease trap and Exactly. All that kind of stuff, I think. Yes. It's anything coming out of a out of a restaurant needs to needs to be discharged through a grease trap.

But what she's saying would cover the you're talking about discharging it. So you have to discharge it somewhere. So if you say it has to be in a appropriate area, that would cover Yeah. basis unless an approved may not be discharged on the premises unless into an approved cannot be cannot be discharged on the premises. Must be disposed of and approved an approved thing. That's not to say somebody can't bring another truck out. They've got a big tank, hook up the hose to gray water, hook it up to their tank and pump the contents in for proper disposal to transport it away so they can leave their truck there. That's fine. But

I've actually seen port trucks going to suck out the tanks. Hey, there you go. They got that figured out. I'm sure gray water is no big deal. As long as it's not sprayed out on site. Okay. But those were those were Okay. You got anything, Stephen? I do not.

Okay. I had maybe a comment. No, so I was saying two comments. Uh again, we're going to page four of 11. Letter F. By must ensure that the food is not on the premise of more than seven consecutive days without being open for business. I am perfectly fine with that. But I also in the back of my man mind think of what if there's something that comes up as a an extenduating circumstance. Uh somebody's running their mobile food cart. They're there. Everything's fine. They get the call that they need to go back east [laughter] and they have to be gone for

two weeks to take care of family business. It could be a death in the family. It could be a birth. But it could be something that it's an unusual circumstance and they don't have time to get it out of there. There's I'm thinking of some provision where they could at least approach the city and with some form of advanced notification let it be known that they have an extenduation that they can go away so that that seven days there can be a forbearance. But if they have advanced notification, they should be able to get depends upon the type of notification without prior approval of the state

over here. Let's talk on the premise of more than seven days without being

Yeah, just for your info, the Kaiser regulation is 4 days. But you know, how do you enforce that? There's nobody from the city gonna stop by and note on a calendar how many days each food cart is there and then all of a sudden they start racking up. Oh, food card A is not there, not there, not there. And then seven days in a row. Well, okay. Then they'd have to be there on a Saturday and a Sunday and nobody's going to the enforcement officer is not typically working on a Saturday and a Sunday. I think as long as as the you know the applicant knows you know is aware of this that um you know they they can know the regulations and can make arrangements appropriately and so you're saying little blurb in there about without prior

approval city approval. So the bubble of food operator must ensure the MO is not on the premises for more consecutive days without being open for business without prior approval from without okay. Okay. So, at the very end, okay, I know it's aggravating. I mean, I'm not an I don't consider myself to be an overly bureaucratic person, but as soon as you give a government the authority to make a decision, then you get into what are the approval criteria for that decision.

So, if we're going to say without prior approval, if somebody comes in and says, "Yep, my dad died in LA. I got a bus down there and I'll be gone for a couple of weeks." Is that good enough to be removed? Or somebody says, you know, I'm just kind of tired of all this food preparation. I need a a week of personal time.

There's there is, you know, with Brandon, you know, he has the authority, correct me if I'm wrong, to make decisions based on things like this. You know, it could go to, you know, and leave that decision to him. Is this is is this a valid excuse? Is it not a valid excuse? But that puts your city administrator in a situation where I got to make a decision and I have no criteria upon which to base my decision. And as a professional city administrator, he's going to say that doesn't look like a good due process process to me. And so if I mean we could back up and say just because Kaiser has this provision, do we in Lafayette need that? So what if a food truck is there and it isn't open for a week or two?

Okay, that's the other way. That would be another different way of looking at it. Instead of trying to put something on there, as much as we like the idea of maybe not having it shut business, maybe Yeah. Okay. Because that would make in some ways that might make sense because okay, somebody brings food truck in. The permit is they're valid for one year, right? Well, once they get the the permit, they don't need to reup every year.

Okay? But they've got their permit. Then if they come in, let's say they come in and they find that, hey, if I'm open during the summer and a little bit in the fall and a little bit in the winter, and a little bit in the spring, maybe they're open a to just to make numbers up, maybe they're open a total of eight months out of 12 and the other four they're closed. And that those four months of closure could be a period anywhere from two weeks to two months. Isn't that counterdict what G says? The premises must be not used for storage for a mobile food unit. What is storage? Seven days, six months,

four months out of the year. Four months. I will add that some of our counselors have expressed not wanting vacant stores or shops. So, if we're having vacant food units just sitting there, I don't know if council will be it's not it's not a good look to have a have a food truck sitting there not working. Isn't that the benefit of it being mobile too? Like it's not they can move it. They can move it. Yeah. And if the person has to go, then maybe they've got a friend or even a relative, a spouse that would have the keys and would be able to drive it off the site.

If not, we could right in the park here and you guys could use them for lunches. Yeah. No, potentially. I don't know what vandalism might be around here once you get food trucks on a site and be in there overnight every night and that sort of thing. So, it might be that some of the food truck operators would not want to if they're not open on the weekends, they wouldn't want to leave the truck here on the weekends or something like that. But depending upon if we have

confidence in the free market enterprise system, these people are in it to make money. And if I'm not there, look, I'm down there not making money. Yeah, I would suggest leaving it at the seven days. And if they fail to comply, then the city has action or not action.

Got the ability to take action. That doesn't mean one will. That person may have contact. Getting back to Jim's question about well if you put the city with approval criteria maybe that approval criteria you can't cover every it's like you cannot specify every single possible reason that's not possible. So, you know, it would be, hey, if you got to be closed, like the idea without prior city approval would be, okay, something that constitutes either an emergency, an emergent or time sensitive criteria. I guess it could be a medical emergency, it could be a death in the family, it could be uh a birth, something that that person has to leave with haste and they don't have the time or opportunity to move it. If the food because depending upon how the food truck is sitting there, it might be the kind of thing where, hey, it might only take them 15 minutes to prep it to move down the road. other cases it might take them 24 hours to be able to prep it to actually move it out of space. And if they got a flight, you know, if they're booked on a red eyee, they won't have time to move it. Or my or might say, well, the request has been made. They said they need to be gone. They did not give any kind of emerging criteria, but they only asked for 11 days, not seven. Then you could sit down and say, okay, that's a human decision. Yes, it's fuzzy, but is that request does it fall in reasonable line? There's a difference between making a request of seven days versus making a request of, "Oh, I need to be on for two months." I would sit down and say, "Yeah, I would agree if it the request would be for two months and be like, that's two months." Yes. Uh, you do need to make arrangements to move

it beforehand. So, so I don't know, Jim, whether you would want to put it without prior approval of the city at the end of F or shall we just leave it as is? Well, I can imagine the city attorney would read it and he'd say what I mentioned a few minutes ago. Okay, that's another case where government is going to make a decision and uh we probably have to say somewhere who the decision authority is. What is the process? What are the criteria that must be met or the city, you know, it just immediately gets into a lot of bureaucracy, so to speak. Okay.

And I or Jim, we could leave it the way it is right now. Leave it the way. Leave it the way it is. And And simply if we run into an issue with it, if runs into an issue with it, we can all we can always Yeah. We can always amend it. We can always put something like that in down the road with city and train if it becomes necessary. Okay. Or in terms of F and G with G being the storage word without a time frame for how long storage is. If we deleted F and the premises shall not be used as storage for a mobile food unit for more than seven or then

17 or 14 days something then that could maybe take care of FNG. If it's not if it's a food unit that's not used for 11 days then that means it's being stored. But would it be for for a non a nonfunctional nonoperating non open now they're using the property to store their equipment versus wherever they live or wherever Yeah.

Yeah. They're not supposed to have stuff laying around or sitting around. Uh, and if they do need a space for that, then I forget which one it is here, but they'd have to have some little storage unit or cabinet or something to put their extra stuff in. But then that would be asking for someone to come along in the middle of the night and particularly if it's food and non-p perishable food. Okay, we'll just break in and take all the stuff home.

I would I would I would venture guess one is going to strike one of those two. I would be inclined to strike G because G specifically, you know, goes towards use as storage for the mobile food unit. But if F is in force, you have the mobile food unit there, you're ensuring that it's not going to be closed for more than seven consecutive days without, you know, without being open for business,

then that does two things. That implies that you're not going to store the thing there. And if you put G in place, then it's it's almost like by having G in there, then people go, well, uh, how can I get around that or get away with it? It's almost like G gets wrapped up in F automatically. I would I would then be inclined to say of the two, strike G because F has got it covered. I I think I agree with that. I would agree. Okay.

Strike G. Okay. Uh the other comment that I have goes down towards items J and K. And that has to do with surface covering. And again, this is a partial thought that sits in the back of my mind. Okay. I think of you're saying 2.5 in of asphalt over 6 in aggregate or 6 in base or 4 in of concrete solid pad. In both situations, I think both of those situations are hardcape. Uh you now increase uh runoff or potential runoff issues, particularly if it's asphalt and you get ups and downs, you got people splashing through puddles. I'm thinking that yes, having those as an example, but something along the lines of The mobile food unit pedestrian vehicle access must all reside on a loadbearing surface. The earth is loadbearing.

Well, if they're an engineer, that would beg the question, what's a loadbearing surface? And these numbers, the 2 and 12 in with 6 in or 4 in of concrete come out of the parking and loading chapter. What talks about the surfaces that you have to have for parking because I'm thinking of okay parking and sidewalk.

To me, if I if I have my choice, rather than having a poured concrete driveway, I would want to have a paper driveway. I have seen things to give you to give you an example, not in the so much in the US. I've seen it out of in products out of the United Kingdom. Think of a two foot by two foot plastic crate grid, right? And I don't know how big the openings are, but 4 in x 4 in. It's 4 to 6 in deep. It is designed to sit on a aggregate compacted gravel base. It is designed to be filled with soil. It is designed that plants can go through that. And this crate is tough enough and strong enough to support vehicular traffic up to and including semis. So that that's kind of the direction I'm thinking. Something that is loadbearing that is erosion resistant but is still permeable. So any rain water that falls on it, instead of staying in the form of a puddle, it can drain.

Right. And that's been something that's been talked about for 30 years. And rarely do you see that in a commercial application. And what you're describing doesn't include what's the base under the material that was just described because you can't just even with rock you can't or gravel you can't just put gravel down with kind of a crate sort of thing and some soil and whatever because with weight then what's under that that's going to

oh yeah you almost from you have you know differential settling You probably would have to build it like into a roadway. Put your geo fabric down. Yeah. Compact layers of gravel out. Put in your gravel. Put in your 2 and 12 inches of asphalt and you're done. Have to be inspected by the building inspectors. But some but some vehicle that would be or a surface that would provide the equivalent soil protection support of J&K but just thought

okay I've I've I've seen the stuff that you're talking about I've actually done a done an open area with with compress pressed coal ash spacers that that had diamond cutouts in them 6 in 8 in thick spacers the whole Indians made the had a plant where they made these things we we laid them out in a in a courtyard that the trucks drove through to get to a another space and allowed grass to grow up in the in the spaces which was kind of nice but it was a very it was a very engineered system that required exciting out below the base building the base up providing ample water drainage yada yada and and it had to be compacted to certain level so that the

certainly it certainly requires engineering expense well beyond what J and K represent I was just wound sure

okay uh If we were to allow pavers, then we somebody would say, "Well, I'm going to do pavers and this is what it's going to be." And we'd say, "Okay, take your engineered plans that show what it is, and we'll have our city engineer review them." He doesn't review those things for free, but it's not just the plans. the calculations would need to be included to show what the permeability of that setup is. And then when they install it, somebody would have to be out to inspect it to make sure that they're actually building what they said they would build. Because with a lot of things, it's easy to say, "Yeah, we're going to have whatever six or eight inches of this and then some of that and this great things."

It has to be more than just this. It has to be a specific kind of vase. Yeah. Yeah. And so one of the reasons that in the last 30 years you don't see very much impervious surface PA type material in a commercial application is because it costs a lot to do it [laughter] and then to maintain it. And it's easier to just scrape out, put in your gravel, compact it, asphalt over it and you're done. I this is as poor country. I I took this as a as a minimum. This would be

you're need to one of these two things as the minimum. You want to do more than that. Take it to the city. Take it to do an engineer plan and submit it. Just a thought. So ignore it. That is all that I had. Uh things that I had circled. No to continue on to Jay. I'm not familiar with Portland cement concrete. Why does it have to be Portland? Because the powdery part of co well concrete is a u a mix of aggregate, you know, smaller rocks and then the stuff that holds those rocks together, right?

And the stuff that holds the rocks together is this real fine powder that is cement. And there's a going I don't know back how many hundred years or something there's this thing called Portland cement. Oh, okay. And got it. I don't think it's Portland. No, it's not Portland. No, it is actually. It's definition of port cement. Actually cement. I've never seen that before. It's called Portland cement. that it's actually it's actually limestone that's fired to the point where it it is ground and crushed and powdered

and that that limestone is what becomes after it's finished process it's burnt to make it gray and it turns that into the cement that reforms itself into the add water it turns into a very hard substance and the sand and aggregate is what kind of everything binds together. I've played with cement before and has never worked with cement. It's been used for thousands of years. Okay. Rome is there are roads still paved in Europe. They're Roman roads that were made

and they've only recently modern people have only recently figured out the recipe for what the Romans used because what they were doing is better than what standard concrete is these days. They were using salt water. They had salt water. And there was some of the there was a certain chemical that was in the volcanic ash that they used that reacted with the salt water. Yeah. And over time, little crystals and tendrites. And the longer it stayed there, over time, the stronger it became. So, it's still increasing in strength even today.

Yeah. the the resorts that are built in the Caribbean, it it it costs a lot of money to to bring in silica sand to the Caribbean. So, the resorts down in the Caribbean built their concrete hotels using the sand off the beaches, right? Which is mostly sea shells that are a fine finish or coral that is, right? It's calcium carbonate, which is not good with concrete and and low strength. No strength. It actually deteriorates quickly. It does. The storms hit it and it it just comes apart. Okay. Well, thank you for the education.

Um, no trouble. No, thank you. uh on N is talking about the operation times 5:00 a.m. must close later than 11 p.m. Uh we mentioned the past meetings about generator. What I'm talking about is noise [clears throat] at 5:00 a.m. That's earlier than what the city regulations for running a chainsaw is. I think it's like 8 a.m. 9 a.m. You could get on your uh lawn mower and stuff. So, if you have a generator starting at 5:00 a.m., what's it? I think it's 8 a.m. 8 a.m. 5 a.m. is looking

that's 3 hours earlier than say 8 a.m. Is there should there be a noise decibel level that you have to maintain or no generator use between the hours of flood and that may be anybody issue on the city program? I can see the the the early advert time. I'm thinking, you know, vineyard or or agricultural people going out early. You know, they have the food truck, they stop, get their breakfast, and then it could happen to say being open. I just didn't know if the neighbors around.

No, I I can see that. Yeah. And if [clears throat] there not a lot of people stopping at 5:00 am to buy stuff, the food trucks are going to figure that out quick and say, "Well, I'm not going to get there till 6 a.m. there." Is there nothing in here? There's nothing in here about generators. No, there's not. Because the units need generators, but most of the at least the modern ones, the generator is in the truck. Well, especially if they have no electrical electricity there. They're going to be required. They need have to have a generator. Yeah. Yeah.

And I don't know if the new OA standards require the generator to be in the truck or not, but I can check that out. And if the OA standards don't require generators as part of the truck, then we can say that you can't have a generator sitting outside. I know with a lot of these uh annual festivals and things, a lot of people want to bring generators and often the local government that's approving everything says, "No, don't. You can't have a exterior generator. They just make too much noise." And some of the like uh I was thinking with Sherwood their cruise in

June when it's in a downtown area. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It doesn't really matter if you have a generator but if you're zones Yeah. If you're in the C1 zone and you have a generator, well, no big deal. But if across the street is a single family dwelling, then right here, is that a problem? Okay. So, you look into generator whether we whether we need to put a little something in there with regard to that or not kind of between N and O.

Yeah. I mean, I'm absolutely fine with 5 a.m. start time, but being noisy at 5 am I don't think is okay. noisier than you you have you noisier than you easily cannot be. Yeah. Unless unless the food truck has something where you know it would be up to they could run for

they could they could run for three hours on battery or you know a couple of hours on battery in the morning to supply just minimal lighting that they might need inside. And then when it gets to be later in the morning, they can fire up their generator, charge up their batteries, use that generator during the course of the day if they need to. And then as it gets towards evening, they shut the generator down at 8:00 a.m., which is, you know, think of a typical lawn mower. You mean 8:00 p.m.

Well, 8:00 p.m. Yes. 8:00 p.m. And then between 8 and 11, then they go back to using battery power. You have to look too at at, you know, these these hours. So 5:00 a.m. to 11 p p.m. They need prep time, you know, beforehand. They need closing time after. So does that mean they're there at 4:00 and starting the work and getting done at midnight? Maybe we adjust the time to 6:00 to 10, you know, something like that. I mean, I'm assuming you took this from the Kaiser Kaiser hours that they allow. Yeah. And if we look at the hours, some of the reg some of the cities don't even worry about hours of operation. They leave it open to the food truck person because if they get there too early, you know, opening at 3:00 a.m., well, they're not going to make any money.

So, they will adjust when they get, you know, when they get their truck up and operating based on when they're going to be making some money. And then staying open till 11. I you know, good lord Kaiser is dead at 8:00 p.m. on most weekday evenings. And uh so you on Highway 99 is slow after after 7 o'clock. Yeah. And even cafes that are around the immediate area, Newberg, uh Mondays and Mondays or Mondays and Tuesdays, they're closed. So they obviously don't have enough business

to be open at that time and depending upon what the business is. Some of them close at 2 or 3 just because for whatever they do their customer base for an evening meal is you know I think of the old when it was here um American Cafe going back what 8 10 years they were open they would open at when we first came we're in town they would be open at around I want to say they open at like 6:00 in the morning

they closed at 2 in the afternoon and you know Those are their hours of operation. And then I can't remember whether it was under the original owner that we met when we were here, but one of the owners, they did try being open for an evening meal. And they tried that for, you know, a month or two and they found

it's just not worth it. The business, even though there are lots of people in Lafayette, they're coming and going. So, they just wouldn't know. So whether it's the customer base that just is not going to be there at that hour of the day or what the business provides even though it's there would provide food. Patrons just are not choosing the food that food in that location. Who knows? So,

well, I put five and 11 thinking that that's plenty early enough, plenty late enough, and the city would never have a food operator complaining that, you know, the hours are 6 to 10, and I want to open at 5:30, right? And that kind of stuff. But, so if you think that 5 and 11 need to be changed, we can do that, right? see the you know the the rationale what you know it's the hours of operation the hours that they're busy and and they will self-regulate

selfate we get the we get the comments in the and the regulations here regarding generators it's the noise the generator sound noise out of it that will that will help guide too

that will be the guidance that we because they might say, "Well, I want to be open at 6:00, but because of noise requirements, it's not practical for me to do so until 7:30." Or they could open at 7:30 and operate that first half hour without the need for a generator. You know, again, kind of that blend of market and regulation. So, yeah, let's put that let's get something in there with regard to noise. Oh, and all of the, you know, as usual with amendments to the development code, whatever we decide now when it comes to the public hearing, you can change something and send it on to the council and then they can change Yeah.

whatever they want. Okay. They'll have their two seconds. That's that's what you have any David. Okay. So I think it sounds like about our work session other than a one item to strike and a item to for Jim to investigate noise power generator. It sounds like what we've got here is is basically done and solid and can move forward with it.

Thank you for all your work, Jim. Well, yeah, it's a it's one of those things where yeah, there's a lot of food trucks. A whole lot of cities big and little and in between allow them and then you start thinking, okay, what are all the things we need to say? [laughter] This is the third time and even tonight we had a good hour discussion about this stuff. Yeah, I think we got it. Yeah, [laughter] but we're we we we pretty much got it zeroed in on too, which is the key point. Any other future changes are going to happen into input from other sources, which is perfect.

Okay, we'll move on to new business. And first up under the new business, looks like there somebody got some comments on the transportation system plan update. Whoever has that information, take it away, please. Supposed to be here to do it. Yeah. Um Scott and I and I guess you were on that uh call last Friday to select. No, we weren't. Oh, okay. Yeah. I think we we settled on a Yeah. contractor. We had a with ODOT people. We with our ODOT handler or whatever you want to call David [laughter] handler. Wow. He has bunch.

And it was the second meeting we had a couple weeks prior. we had another Zoom meeting and he said here are the uh consultant companies to pick from and I'll send you some information from each of those companies and we had two weeks and then last Friday we had our second meeting and that's where I don't know there were five of us or something that were talking about city engineer was one of the people and [clears throat] Scott and I and Brandon so anyway We talked about each

examp um there and all five in my opinion anyway all five of the companies uh they've been in Oregon they're I think all out of Portland or Portland suburbs

and they have all been working doing things in Oregon since I can remember and uh the uh David Hilton from ODOT he said yes he's worked with all of these and from his perspective at the state level they all do good work and so we talked about all five of them and decided on a company called parametrics so uh David is now working to do contract with parametrics and the amount of money and what all needs to be done and that kind of stuff. So selected our contract process is moving along.

The scope I think is the next thing we'll we'll be reviewing. Uh pardon me. The scope scope.

Yeah. because uh given the amount of money for the grant and given what we said needed to be done in our grant request and then what parametrics is thinking it's going to cost to do all that. If the cost to do that is you know way higher than anybody expected then something in the scope of work will need to be deleted or cut back something somehow. But anyway, so we're moving along and uh the work needs to be done by the end of the fiscal bianium. So that's June 30th, 2027. And if we're going to be adopting something, the adoption phase with planning commission public hearing followed by city council public hearing. Well, we probably want to do the planning commission hearing in April. city council hearing in May and then if there's any reason to have to extend things and you know continue a public hearing we've got a month of June as our buffer

that's not much

at the end of you know June 30 of 2027 is the last time we will be able to or the consultant will be able to charge any billable hours to this project. All of the companies do outreach to communities, citizens in the community. They they have they have meetings that they set up and and do questioning of of of the population of the people that are interested in in what might be transpiring and get their input. So it was was there's a bunch of stuff that goes on during the next year and a half to get to that point. They they all seem to be very thorough. Uh they all are familiar with this area. They are all where the the bypass and the the highway 99 work.

Yeah. have

these companies, if they're not doing things for a government through a state grant to a local government, they're working for private sector developers, coming out doing traffic counts or having their survey crew do some surveying for road projects or they are the engineering firm that designs the road, you know, how the road's going to be constructed like this improvement that went through here on Third Street, all the sidewalk work and everything. So, they're doing all that kind of transpo related work all over the state, frankly, all the time. Okay.

Also under business, we have B, which is the housing capacity analysis grant update. So, who has information on that? Well, we or do we?

Yeah. Yes, we do. the company. Well, um the O.TSP process is a little different than the housing capacity analysis/buildable and inventory process. Uh for the TSP, there's a stable of these transportation engineering companies because not all civil engineering companies specialize in transportation. And so they've got a stable of them. And then when there's TSP work granted for a city or county to do, then the city or county ends up getting to pick from one of those in the stable. And so depending on how busy those companies are, they might say, "No, we're too busy already. We're not going to do any TSP work in this bianium or something like that." that it's pretty pretty hard to imagine a company saying we don't want work. But if they're really busy doing other stuff, then that's the way it is. They are up to their capacity. Um, so the housing consulting work is somewhat similar in that there are a bunch of consultants and some of them, you know, land use planning consultants. Some of them do this kind of work and so they're okay in terms of DLC as good enough to do the work. others that haven't done it and are trying to get in or don't want to do it at all, then they don't throw their hat in the ring. But um we were asked uh I don't know what two two or three weeks ago u out of the various companies which

one would you prefer? It was kind of a preference ranking. And so, uh, for Lafayette, the preference that was chosen is, uh, a company called Winterbrook, and they've been a consulting firm for, I don't know, 25, 30 years or something like that. Anyway, they do a lot of urban growth bounding work, but they also do other kinds of planning work. And so uh with that company being the preference by the city, what was that just uh was that the one this morning or was that the one yesterday?

Yeah,

thank you. Anyway, we had an initial an initial basically one hour introductory meeting with them. There was uh some one or two state people and three I guess of the consultant people and then myself and Amanda and Brandon and Kennedy. You weren't the DLC rep. Sorry for my phone derping, but uh anyway, so uh they kind of ran we had an agenda and it's pretty standard kind of an agenda and ran through the things that the city said we needed done as part of this housing capacity analysis slash buildable land inventory project. And so they wanted to check to make sure, you know, what it was that we were talking about in the grant and what other things we might have on our mind and trying to get a little bit of an idea of what's going on with the city and housing and so forth. And so uh after I guess it was only about 45 minutes, the one yesterday with AMD took a full hour, but um they were satisfied that they had answers to their questions about what's going on in Lafayette and how to do this and how to do that and does the city have a website and can information be put on the website? Yes, it can. We'd be happy to. And we apparently Brandon said we could have a separate, you know, web page just for this project so that they as the con consultant can stick stuff on it or send it to the city and the city would put it on and public involvement, citizen involvement. And one thing that we

agreed for sure is that before the planning commission holds a hearing on better work and adopt and recommends to the council to adopt or whatever and before the city council has a hearing. Um there will be a city council planning commission joint work session with the consultant. that way before you're in a hearing situation. That's the second one. So, I won't have to say sorry anymore. Um, uh, they will be able to let you know what's going on and why it's going on and all the ins and outs and what the result is. And prior to that, of course, will be citizen involvement and potentially at um oh gosh, what's the summer kind of celebration thing or the public community events?

Yeah. Harvest festival. Uh that would be an opportunity for them to have the city with either just the city people or one of the consultants or a couple of them have a tent or something and be able to hand out information and let people know what's going on. And because we had such a great response to the park online survey like 10 we had 400 or 440.

Yeah. So, it's like 10% of the population. That's amazing. Unless some of the people entered the survey 10 or 20 or 50 times.

I'm kind of thinking with um Veterans Park being overwhelmingly recommended by the survey to be a dog park, I'm kind of thinking a lot of people up there just went on the survey every day and said Veterans Park, dog park. So anyway, uh there's going to be a survey similar kind of a thing that's online and people can respond to the questions and preferences and things. that area over there with the with the the neighborhoods hearth and the one to the south of it and the one on the other side of Bridge Street. We walk our dogs nearly every day

and we run into probably eight to 12 or 15 other people walking their dogs every day. So it's entirely possible that you know it's a lot of people over there that are strong interest. Yeah, absolutely.

So anyway, that is the and it's going to be it is referred to as the HCA housing capacity analysis and that's where they look at all the acres we have and what residential zones and how many of the properties are developed with what kind of unit. Is it a detach single family dwelling or is it an apartment or townhouse or whatever? And so we'll have a good fix of what our housing mix is. Right now I'm thinking it's probably 98% or 99% detached single family dwelling. We've got one apartment project of 30 units and that's 35 or 40 years old now up at Branch and 12. Mhm.

And if I remember correctly, that started out as a farm worker housing project, but I don't know that it's that anymore. Bunch of single family or singlestory units and then there's a two-story units up. Yeah, it's only 10 units an acre density. So, that's not very dense. Mhm.

But anyway, um and we've got just in the last few years, one, two, three, four, five, I don't know, maybe six duplexes that have been built. And then we've got three or maybe four if the one at the west end of seventh, I think it is, that partition. And they're I know they've done some third pushing out there a month or two ago, but uh it's another new about two unit two in town on eighth. Seventh or eighth? It's eighth. Yeah, there the houses are are well up and Okay. Yeah, they're

Yeah. So anyway, I think that's the fourth one of those where the 4,000 square foot

lot an 8,000 square foot lot. You partition it into two 4,000 square foot lots. You put a townhouse on each one. And our code, I think, was written with those numbers because virtually all of the lots in the original town plat are 85 80,000 square feet. So, the code allows a partition and a townhouse to be built. Anyway, so that kind of information for all the residential districts is will be known and we did this 10 years ago for the UGB expansion because having your what currently is called housing needs analysis and buildable land inventory are the basis for figuring out if you need to expand your boundary and if you do, how many units do you need and what's your population that you're trying to accommodate and all those things. So anyway, there's new rules. It's not going to be housing needs analysis anymore. It'll be housing capacity analysis and the new rules will be adopted by the land conservation and development commission in December, December 4th or 5th I think and then they will be effective January 1st. So sometime early in the year, Winterbrook will be into the work and uh along with the HCA, the BLI, the buildable land inventory will also be done. And that's where you look at all the land inside your city limits and inside the urban growth boundary that is zoned or for the land that's inside the urban growth boundary that outside the city limits

what your comp plan map designation is low, medium or high density. Anyway, and it's figured out and this is long range planning. So what's figured out isn't necessarily what's going to happen. It's just what could happen. Kind of a [clears throat] a pointer on the map that gives you a general direction of the heading as opposed to right the actual.

Yeah. For example, all the R2 land that we have it R2 allows apartments and how many apartments have been built on R2 land in the last 35 years? None. It's all been detached single family dwellings. So anyway, the buildable land inventory basically says you have this many acres of buildable land in R1, R2, and RC and the minimum density sizes and the density allowed for apartments and things are all part of that. So they know that your current residential designated areas or zoned areas can accommodate so many dwellings at whatever densities. And then if your population projection still isn't accommodated by that, then okay, you have the factual information to justify expanding your boundary. So

okay. So anyway, these both of those will Those are moving or UT those are moving. Okay. Uh under new business let me ask you this commission. How much time do you need? Not long at all. Okay. Because you wanted to talk about multiple units in the mobile food unit kind of headed in the direction of reopening. Are you looking at reopening that discussion of pods or not? I'm I'm looking at reopening discussion of Okay, then

we have made we have made good progress and and establishing the rules and rigs for a one to three units. Since it takes as much time as it does for us to go through the rules and regulations and reviewing them and getting them approved through here to go to the city council to have them review it and approve it and enact them into into being. I I would I think we would be remiss if we didn't continue with the with the pod discussion and add a section to the to the code for pods that would follow on what we're doing with the with the one three units. Uh there are properties here on 99 that would be if The one three unit succeed would be uh easily changed built into box. There's enough traffic on 9 to make it attractive to land owners to do that to move to change it from whatever it's being used as now. There's a couple of of single family units that are one that's that's abandoned, one that's pretty run down. There's a couple of uh used car lots that would probably make more money as a pod than they would than they do selling used cars. But so sounds like create the language that represents a section that could be added to what we've got with regard to the one to three units. So that at some future point

that boilerplate exists and then all we have to do is take that boilerplate make the recommendation to city council. Hey we now can address the issue of pods. Here's the language we recommend. So we've got that we the groundwork is put together. I think it would make sense. It would not be it would not be making us recreate the wheel. Tyond, we continue with what we've got going. It doesn't stop. It keeps moving. It gets approved. It goes to place. But on the back end, we come along. Even if it isn't implemented at that point, we've got it to the point where it is ready to go to city council.

We can say city council. We've got pods available if you do if you want. If you're ready. Okay. How does everybody feel about that idea? kind of continuing continuing the idea of workshop but only addressing the issue of a MFU pod as asked Jim if he if he can bring us a we have any format that might be usable for that well um or any questions or concerns

yeah not knowing how our proposed regulations for three units will play out at our public hearing which haven't decided to talk to Brandon about it but rather than do it doing it on the third Thursday in December have it the third Thursday in January and then a city council uh hearing potentially second Thursday. Yeah, they meet the second Thursday in February and if the council is not overly enthused and ends up having concerns and so forth, I would not want to have spent time now and in the next two or three months doing the pod stuff if only later we're going to find out that the council says, "No, my god, we don't want three, limit it to two and this and that and you know whatever concerns they might have and they'd say, "Yeah, pods. No, definitely we don't want pods for there's going to be 10 or 12 or 15 of these things."

Yeah. And so, uh, we actually may talked about this a little bit. I don't know how many months ago. Maybe back when the council first in May or June or July asked the commission to take up the food truck thing, right? It was food trucks, not food pods, right? So, let's go. Maybe maybe the tact should go is this direction.

The idea is a good idea. We probably should do that, but I'm following Jim's path would be we don't do that now. We just treat that as this is this would be an idea that would happen at a future point. Let's see how the one to three units play out first. If the one and three units one extreme, they totally fall apart. City council just absolutely doesn't want it, then there's no reason to address the issue of pods because obviously if council is not going to do it, we shouldn't waste our time on that. On the other hand, if the one to three units are approved down the road and they do go into place, then that experiment can go forth, it would be at that point in time where we could then put a little more attention into creating that boiler plate that you're thinking of. Does that make sense? Well,

well, I wouldn't necessarily want you to decide that that's the way it should be tonight because Brandon has the connection to the counselors and typically when people call up the city, your city administrator kind of acts as an eco economic development person, an ecoo person. And so, uh, depending on what, I guess there were maybe two inquiries earlier this year that caused him to take it the issued through the council and then said, "Yeah, let the planning commission work on it." So, now we've got things ready to go to hearing. But, uh, I'm not sure that any other, uh, food truck people have contacted him or if they're going to contact him in the winter time. Who knows? Maybe tomorrow somebody will call him up about. Yeah, I've got a few. Yeah, I got a million bucks that I want to do a food pod in in Lafayette. I've done my research and Lafayette is a food pod desert.

And if that occurs, we can always move. Yeah. And it'll take a year. Well, yeah, we've taken we've taken nearly a year. It's been in April when we took up the the the food truck, right? We took it up and it's not going to get to the city council until March of next year for them to approve it.

But it I can see Jim's point too in that why he has a lot on his plate. Why put that effort into this? We can we can certainly put the issue to Brandon to bring it up to the city council. Give them the heads up that we're we're going to be delivering food trucks. You want to three units. Would you would you want us to have food pods as as a as the add-on to that while we're do working on it or you just want to stick it with a one to three?

I I see if the city council's open. I think, you know, the city council is going to, you know, we don't know what they're going to act on right now and we won't know uh unless there's I don't know if there's a general consensus. I mean, if there's general consensus and that that we go with the look at the pods as well, then it's probably most likely they'll Yeah. The direction from the council was to deal with food trucks. Yeah, I think I think I I agree. You know, we could, you know, definitely would need that. But I also see Jim's point, why have him go into the effort doing it when there's a possibility that they'll say, "No, we don't blow it out.

There's a balance. There's a balance there because Brandon has the direct connection to the council. The only time I'm a council is when there's a land use public hearing. uh if he has had any contact or think himself professionally believes that if food pod would be a natural next step then he can take it to the council for a lucky you know what do you think council I don't know that when it would be maybe January or February or something but let him let him float the idea yeah Okay.

Conversation with Brandon. Yeah, by all mean. Yeah. Yeah. At least at least float the idea to Brandon so he can put because he might decide, hey, this makes sense to talk at least float the thought to counsel either in December or it could be January, it could be February. So there's a little little Yeah, by all Yes. Scott, give some time for the chain of command to operate. Yes, I would I would just I we we've made good progress and we understand the issues with the with the food trucks and I just think to lose that momentum and have to go back to the beginning and review it again to go into food pots which food units.

Yeah. And regarding the amount of time that it's taken us to get to this point with the food truck issue, we had three other u legislative amendments. There were the housing amendments. Yes. that we worked on for a couple of years and every meeting either I or someone in the commission would add something. Oh yeah, let's work on this part of it too. And then finally we got that done in the spring or I forget it just went that ordinance was passed 649 I don't know April, May, June somewhere in that time frame. And then we had uh the little uh sign amendment to delete the language that allowed additional signs during election times. And so that took a little bit of time. And out of the blue came those flood plane amendments, the pre-imple pre-implementation compliance measures. And so it wasn't as if I mean your staff is one person and certainly with uh Amanda being on board then she'll be able to do some things and when you have something like the pickhams that took quite a bit of time and we did get it adopted and so uh what else? So the park plan update we did that too. Yeah, not many years.

Even though it's taken us a year on this, we got three, four, four other things done in 2025. No, it's been a been a busy and productive year trying to keep the momentum going. Totally understand. But if if we uh but we don't want we want to keep it going, but not rush. It's a it's a it's a an income potential to the city or the increase in value to the lots that increase real estate taxes the additional people coming into town that will generate gen economic

other economic values and I would just hate to delay that longer than it should be if we can get it couple them I would think that in person it has the hundreds of thousands of dollars to do a pod is not going to want to invest in not just Lafayette but any city or any neighborhood in a big city without knowing that there are some individual two or three food trucks and that they're making money. Yeah. some degree of success over there.

Yeah, because a food pod that's you know definitely paved concrete landscape installed sewer and water hookups for every unit like a hookup similar to you'd have to what you'd have in a house. Power to every one of them. I don't know about natural gas. I've not heard that as part of a standard food pod, but you never know, right? And then all the other stuff they often have like a little pavilion where no matter which food truck you buy from, you can go over and sit under shelter and eat in the pavilion. Space heaters and fans.

Yeah, there's the food pod is a pretty big deal and it takes a developer quite a few hours and tens of thousands of dollars just for the civil engineering work. Okay. Well, that concludes new business for tonight. We are coming up to commissioner comments. And the first thing I want to do before I go around and ask everybody is an issue was brought to my attention with regard to our approved minutes. And actually, there are two sets of approved minutes. One goes back to last meeting of September 18th where the issue of approval dates and meeting dates was brought up to our attention that something is out of order and apparently there was if we go back to the June 19th meeting there was also uh an additional issue with regard to dates. So I want to do this Kennedy

or and Amanda you caught this or you covered it or you can explain it. So since we can't change what's already in the record, but we want to bring it up so that it is brought and discussed and put into the rec the record gets augmented. I'm going to turn over to you and please tell us what happened.

Okay. So, uh, the the on the meeting of June 19th, Wednesday, June 19th, um, in the parks master plan, the motion, um, in the minutes reads, uh, the science standard again and mentions that application. Um, and that should read that the motion was to approve the parks master plan LA 2024-02. And then at the September 18th meeting, uh the approval of minutes for June 19th, um they then say the motion was to approve the April 17th minutes and that should say June 19th. [clears throat]

So for the September 18th meeting, it just referenced long dates on the minutes that were being approved. Okay. And on the June 19thness, the parks master plan approval, the document that's written is the approval is a repeat of the approval amended sign standards. But if I understand right, the recording shows that it actually reference approval of the parks master plan.

Correct. So, the document is incorrect, but the auditory record that we have, what was supposed to be in there was actually the parks master plan. Oh, and I missed that one. Oh, bad. Okay. So, that's information is added to clarify the record. Okay. Do we need to make a motion? And no, because we can't change these already approved minutes. We just want to add to today's meeting minutes that those corrections should should be noted

those corrections. And when you create and when you create the meeting minutes, you could even put within the meeting minutes that this was discussed. Here's the corrected dates. Here's the meeting minutes. Here's the corrected approval and what it was. So that now it is through that you actually we actually not only have it in our record tonight that's auditory but we have it written down in the meeting minutes that we'll look at for next meeting for our next meeting. Okay. Uh any other commissioner comments? Scott Adamson. No I'm I'm done.

Stephen building. Uh just one. Um Ron Kurs and my terms end at the end of next month. What is the process? You've seen the exper you've got the experience of uh re-uping for the next term. Is that appointed by that would be appointed by mayor? Mayor. Okay. Yes. All right. Will she approach us and say I don't know whe she would likely approach us continue. Uh in the past there have been times when people would not wanted to continue their term and have okay come but usually as the mayor that would reappoint. Okay. All right. That's all I got.

And my experience has been since I had the desire to be here. Yeah. Well, I take and just continue to unless I were to reach out and say I'm not interested. Maybe she heard it going to be that we'll continue. Yeah. So, all right. And since she's probably listening tonight or will be at some point in the future, [laughter] mayor, we are both I Yes. and Steve Belding are interested in continuing on the planning commission since our terms come up at the end of the year. Thank you. All right. For your support. [laughter] Okay, Sean Mill. I believe my term also is up at the end of Yeah, that's right. Mayor John's turn is up. I'm pretty sure

it sounds like [clears throat] he's interested in continuing with us. Yeah, we've decided he's interested. Okay. So, we're interested in having him stay tuned. David Rogers, any comments? No comments. Okay. Go to 2027. Okay. How many How many u vacancies do we have right now? One missing, one missing, one vac. We have one vacancy for sure. And we know of at least the unexcused absence for Sheila Newman. So

at some point we'll have to I guess at some point we will have to address that. Maybe reach out find out whether she's still interested because if she's interested you think she'd be here. But if she's not here then that to me that's a very strong message that she at least on the at least on the internet to us being part of the team. Well, yeah. And that is very that is entirely possible if she wants to join would want to join remotely. That has been done. So, yeah, some some idea. I can speak with Brandon and see what the typical approach would be for something like this.

Yeah, because at some point enough unexcused out would be an indication for yes, we appreciate your desire to serve, but your actions indicate that you're either not able were willing to serve, there is no reason to continue that relationship. That doesn't mean that you can't come back in the future when times and circumstances change. But for now, then it would it would end up being a no. But yes, we want and we certainly want to give a some degree of difference as well. So, okay. The next meeting December 18th, just shortly before Christmas,

and we don't have anything specific. And so, I don't know, uh, for many, many years. This room during Christmas is where the fire department's Christmas present drives. is truth. All the prisons were piled up in here and the planning commission didn't meet and so uh I don't know if there's I don't have anything. There's no applications and so forth.

Wasn't there something on the parking um on sideyards or something parking parking? Yeah, that is an enforcement issue that has been resolved. Okay. So, that that takes care of that one. Okay. Well, that's that's we know what our Well, so then I guess December 18th meeting may or may not if if Jim's not doesn't have anything for us, we can have a general discussion. We Okay. Short meeting. I will speak with Brandon about it. We'll get back to you guys. Okay. Yeah. because there may be circumstances or reasons not to have a meeting as well. So

Brandon, I guess, thank you, Kennedy.

If you want to meet on the 18th and have a general discussion, it would be good to work closely with Brandon because general discussions can just be aimless discussions with no result at the end. So there would need to be an agenda. You know, basic rule, if you're going to have a meeting, you have to have an agenda. And so there would need to be something on the agenda to discuss. Consequently, staff would need to know what that is from you. And then depending on what it is and what all the ins and outs are uh

while we while we send each of us if we have something that we would be interested in talking to send it to Kennedy say this is what we'd like to discuss at the or or if when you talk to Brandon if Brandon has some thoughts in the back of his mind that might be useful to us. I think I think it's it's good. You know, you know, Jim, you don't it's something that we can just, you know, discuss, you know, not something that we're going to necessarily accomplish or anything, but but ideas. We got 2026 coming up. Ideas that we have um that we can discuss amongst the five or six of us.

Okay. So, I would say someone needs to, you know, check in with Brandon or you guys can let Brandon know. And uh because there's no particular case or anything, there probably would not be a reason for me to have to be here for a general discussion. And so, I don't know if Brandon's going to be on vacation. That's the week prior to Christmas. Well, it's yeah, I guess the 18th is one week prior to Christmas Day. [clears throat]

Um I don't know just what's going on, but uh if there is to be a meeting, then there in my estimation, there needs to be an agenda with, you know, things that need discussing. Well, we'll we'll leave that up to Kennedy to advise. Is that fair? Yeah, I can talk with Brandon. Okay. um see if he has something already on his mind that you guys would need to discuss or if there are any barriers to using the room barriers or any issues that might come up and like Stephen says if he's got ideas or somebody has ideas that want to present to Brandon

and kind of work that. So just kind of it doesn't need to be an immediate decision one just just kind of let it we got we got a little time. It's looking at us as a as a commission, not just being, you know, looking at things already presented to us, but being proactive and and looking at ideas that, you know, we might have, you know, some form of proactive as opposed to react. Now, I get it. just to be fair to brand and [clears throat] if you have ideas I would think we need to set a deadline date for you to send him those ideas so that you're not ending up you know think oh I can't think of anything and ask ask brand ideas

ask would be a date that you all would need to have said your ideas discussion points topics let's find out what let's find out what Brandon has to I depending upon what's going on in his life, he might have some insights that

that will guide this. We might might, oh yeah, as long as you get us ideas by the fourth of December, that might be one thing. Or there could be something going on entirely that even though a degree being proactive is a good idea, it might be that from a timing standpoint and things and events going on that meeting on the 18th is not either possible or advisable. So it can it can go both ways. That that's all I'm getting. So but we'll leave it to Kennedy to have that initial because then she can let us know, hey, if we have ideas, you know, here's what Brandon wants. Let Brandon set a drop dead date. There you go. Okay. Uh, okay. Uh, do I have a motion to adjurnn?

I move to adjourn. I second that. Kennedy, we'll call for adjournment. Chair Kirk. I chair Baldi. Hi. Commissioner Riola. I. Commissioner Rogers. Hi. Commissioner Adamson. Hi. Meeting adjourned. Thank you very much.