Zoning Board of Adjustment - Regular Meeting

And that's because there's already the building on this map is already there existing build. Okay. Does the board have any questions for the applicant? Okay, I can hear you. Certainly. So, and full disclosure. So, I'll let the chairman decide myself. Hold on. Give me one minute on that. Okay. Still asking a question.

Uh, hold on. That's you. Did you receive notice as a body? Yes. Okay. I believe uh that is typically grounds for recusal from the board. Uh you make that decision, but I think a butters are typically presumed at least to uh to recute that or it's presumed typically that a butter should recuse themselves from sitting on matters that they have bought. I believe that's the case. board have any question mark.

It is it is your I believe it's your option that I think that's wrong. Of course, no it is my option. Well, somebody participated but didn't vote. So, a recusal, you are supposed to step down and uh for the length of the hearing that you're recusing yourself from, you're supposed to be seated with the crowd. You are allowed to, of course, ask questions, comment, etc. as a member of the public if you recuse. Um, but you would vacate your seat at least for the period of this hearing and then once this hearing is done, you'd rejoin the board. Do

that work with you?

That's okay with you. All right. So, board member Mark was going to be recusing himself in this hearing. I'm sorry for this little sideeshow. That does mean I should ask you now, um, you do have a right to have any variance heard by a full five member board. That said, I should let you know we have five members, permanent members, minus one now, and one alternate member. So if you did wish to exercise that right um basically it comes down to hoping that at the next you know the next meeting that all four of us plus the alternate can make it. If we can't then we are where we are and you know there's kind of an indefinite until you decide to go with a shorter board or you know eventually everybody hopefully shows up. So it's up to you if you want all five. The reason for that is you need three votes in order to get a yes on variance. And if of course if you have five people then perhaps the odds of getting that third vote is higher. So it's up to you. Uh how would you like to proceed?

All right. Great. Sorry that is all formality. So great. We have four member board sitting on this member Mark uh Hamill has or sorry Mark Frag has been recused and we will move along. All right. Where was I before that? We were asking questions. Great. Uh, does anyone else on the board have any questions for the applicant?

I don't have any question at this time. Um, the applicant, go ahead and take a seat. We're going to open up to the rest of the public. Um, I should have said this before you spoke, but we are in a public hearing or a public meeting. Does anyone from the public like to speak first in opposition to this proposal? Go ahead. If you want to question,

just make sure you put you state your name and address. Um, so I guess my question was you in three lots in addition to their own existing policy concerned about not so much the frontage on the left of your house but the the rear of your house Um it's it's kind of a long shape. So where would the driveway be to the left going into

it's a right now it's going to be planned as a shared 16T driveway kind of go to I don't know if you know about this like a reservoir of water had a home sprinkler system. He wants a home sprinkler system. Use the one6 build. Okay. I was surprised it's not 20. How long?

They're going to be there. So I will say

uh so all of be beyond the the frontage requirement everything else on this will have to go in front of the planning board and so the planning board because they're the ones who actually authorize the subdivision of the lot. So the planning board looks at I know they look at uh any of the fire department requirements for turnarounds that kind of thing. They look at wetland impact which I have no idea if this has or not. Um they look at weird shapes so to speak. So, one of the requirements is that you can't have something that is too awkward of a shaped lot. And again, I don't I haven't looked past the frontage, but if that is a problem, that is something they do at the planning board. Um, so that is all stuff that they go into at that point. Well, like safety would, you know,

yeah, that is a good point. If the 150 ft or I should say if the 50 foot difference in frontage is a safety concern that is certainly within our purview. It's just if the other parts of a possible subdivision, right, are are the safety concern then that shifts over to the planning board. We're really just focusing on the the frontage question.

Yeah, that's right. Well, that's that's, you know, part of it because you got to have a drive with a feeding line that's kind of sandwiched behind your house to go up in there. I would think you'd need a 22 foot driveway for turn around fire trucks resident work at the end. I know somebody just went through this in so pretty familiar with it. and and you know he ended up spending about 180,000 for this additional essentially as a pool under your driveway system.

Yeah. A system. So you know along with that's not a driveway you're talking $300,000 to get back in as the other. I'm just thinking that that particular lot is I don't have any current stay.

Yeah. Yeah, some of you will sell properties but I just think

you know from the standpoint that's you know that is It's not good. It's exactly why we may be building regulations to avoid, you know, still be too rival as well.

All right. All right. I I am gonna I'm gonna cut this slightly here and just say um although I've let it kind of go on a little bit, maybe a lot of bit uh we should address all comments to to the board to the chair and that is to say you know whatever questions you might have the proper procedure would be you ask them here you will undoubtedly get to answer everything you want to answer you'll come back up and answer them. So, I know I didn't step in before, but um so let me with that in mind, let me just ask what are there specific items that it sounds like you have a concern about the the 200 foot uh frontage not being followed? Um do you have any items that you specifically want the applicant to answer in a moment when they have a chance to come back up?

Yeah. for the primary. All right. All right. Again, you you have a chance. Um Okay. So, I mean, essentially, we're going to set a precedent. Everybody in Hington could subscribe. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Um now, we're going to go and go back and forth. So besides the applicant again, I promise you'll have a chance, many chances you want. Uh, anyone in support from the public of the application? Good.

Thank you. Just please introduce yourself and give your address.

You're welcome. My name is Steven Nicolois. I live at 70 days. My wife and I have been here for 25 years. It's a private very private property very close to us. This project has already made us it has an impact on our property. Our property is not as private as it once was. We believe it should be less private if this should get approved. this road that is talking about it's about 2500 ft off back behind the north line. It's pretty close. Big road goes up a hill where one of those spots are pretty noisy for us due to that loss of privacy. We do believe that uh if we if we decide to sell it will affect that sale value. Another big concern would be the front of that property on mains road where that driveway road is going to go in. They haven't been here long enough. 2015 when we had 100 plus inches of snow in February that whole area flooded along road there's work there road in spring that's a big issue

outside of that where he's talking about he doesn't have the 50 ft for 200 ft. That's all clay in there and it holds a lot of water. Starting about putting in another driveway in there. Have to raise that brace that drive all that much done that area. That's it. Spring keeper area frogs. You name it. But if the project doesn't win and get a go ahead, we do ask that our privacy is given some consideration. Up until now, I don't think that's been done. We got a logging operation that can only be described where it's a gravel pit with where the driveway goes in off road. That's a gravel pit with steep banks on the north south side. The logging operation was set up on that salt facing bank and the two weeks straight I don't know how you describe operation big operation the chipper was a chipper on stage that's all I can kind of describe it as uh our house was literally shaking for two weeks straight with this operation. Windows rattling. Um

I just don't think we've been thought of at all in this whole in this whole situation. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Can you actually stay up for one moment? Yes. No, it's gone.

That's done. Yeah. Yeah, it's Thank you. Uh, we'll go back again at the moment. Is there anyone else from the public that would like to speak about this application? Go ahead. Again, please give your name and address. And again, I'll reiterate, we're talking about the frontage. Um, things that have to do with other aspects of how the property is going to be used are likely going to be dealt with in planning. We're talking about frontage.

Go ahead. Well, hold on. Sorry about that.

I think that's a great idea. Um, but let me let's save that for when they come to speak and I will have on on the agenda at that point that they will show us the the driver and explain it to us. There's a lot of wildite. There's a lot of weapons. It's quiet. There's there's the power lines. There's the reserves. It's close to sanctuaries. I think that that setting the precedence in terms of of subdividing in this way and private private properties that we have in this town has a terrible precedence because we moved here. people move here and buy property here because they want the quiet and they want the space and to have subdivisions like this come into place which back up into people's sides and backyards is not attacking that I want to put them in and who and who by by overruling you know a zoning I don't rule is is unacceptable in my perspective tonight I I had been back there a long month for the shock. It was fascinating that I was shocked to see how varied part of that company was and the logging I had been back there in a long time. And my first thought was, oh my gosh, the support get back up to that book for 24 years on books. And it's not that we want and not private area and to overturn zoning rules to be able to do things like that in and by some people don't know that that space exists unless you live in that corner and there are many corners and areas like that in Kensington unless

you live and a lot of us do you would be shocked at the impact of having that space subdivided and shocked the impact spoke about this property and I follow people without the wildlife impact. I worry about the wild if you can see how close to them and what that would happen from there. worry about that on the same, you know, water resources that are our house for some of them. And I can and and not that you're probably wealthy people, but I am on that side and I can tell you right now I've had to do nothing about Holland or 20 years being it it's not something that anybody would want to build a home on because the land is is is wet wet wet wet and I think it's probably you know should be service that as well.

Thank you. Any questions for this um member of the public? All right. Thank you. Anyone else from the public before we hear? I see one more. Good evening. My name is living room. This property mine. Steve my property also. Um we moved up in 2010. my daughter and her son actually everything there's a train on the right side of my property came over and we talked and told me what he's going to do and I said listen I'd like to eat this stream all of my time cuz it feeds my pond feeds I haven't done well, you know. I just learned that a while. We didn't see it there anymore, you know. But so we uh we talked we walked the property. He told me where he's going to put his house and everything far enough away. Um and he I have the plans here where he gave out of his property so that I would have all of the tree cuz that was something my grandson he swapped out. He was one of the rooms that he would take care of that stream all the time. He walk in all the sticks out big dams, you know. So no matter what goes on, you know, he did have a heart and his wife had said, you know, I understand, you know, I'll change my property so that you don't lose your stream. So I was worried the same as most people but what if they stop you know someone else might you know do something with the tree and

you know where am I with my property so it was nice enough to do that I can go for that. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else from the public? All right, seeing none, uh, does the applicant want to make comments and answer questions as such? Uh, I'm going to say we're pulling up the map. So, we had the question about where's the driver? We'll ask you to go ahead and show that to us up here, but if you could go ahead with any other comments you might have before.

So, I did get a problem involved starting operation. By the time it was submitted to North and as for the variance for the front edge in reality short I'm asking for the 50 ft There was so many.

Well, sorry to interrupt, but you would need still a variance for the 4T short.

I would still need 4t still 4t shorter. I need a variance of 4T 4T 200. I'm asking for 50 ft. So that the property for the middle property line for the middle block isn't in front of the existing house. follow along screen. So for pup as for the middle block I mean everything is up and I had to have all weapons set back univers talking to the fire chief again. Everything is going on American history. Anybody else talk about showing me or offer for the driveway. So 31 ft for driveway. Yes, it was good. Had it comes in and it was up in 100%. Again, we're going to pull up the thing in a moment, but while we wait on that, do we have any other comments or questions from the board of governance? Sorry. If you just say up to

I haven't talked to volume like I said scientist there in the spring and he did all the entire property and he flag anything that was burning flat property so maybe times want to make sure they did pay for properties Anything else from the board before we work on this driveway? Peter, how are we doing on that?

Um, I got it on my laptop. I'm trying to get it. Sure.

Um, if this request was denied, what does it do if it gets denied? basically just new law three total lots but I'd still move over with the existing house I guess that leaves you with the question why do we need why do you need three lots or want three lots this just because then you put three houses and it's a little bit more cash or is there some other reason to that you want need etc uh three lots rather than just able to get to ask for actual

to maximize. So is it to maximize mass? Got like

we have page and everything else. Anything else for the applicant? All right. Well, given that we are having trouble with the image uh getting on the screen, it's okay with the board. I'm going to suggest uh that we take the biggest one we have and we have the applicant show us up here where everybody can f around and take a look. Is that okay with the board?

All right. So, we're going to get up and the applicant's going to show everybody. If you want to see this, see where the the driveway is, please. Come on out. I'm going to play this. I don't like it. moment.

Yeah. And you definitely have other questions. Thank you. So the sister

and if it wasn't true, would you still have a drug? So you're now on one. So you would have to drive that would only go between

and then travel. Well, this would be really weird. We don't know anything. So if there's one, what is the difference? What what impact would they minimize the impact that they're concerned about? I mean, they're still authoring to do whatever they want. this property if they own it. So if they don't have they don't put house is they going to be is that going to change anything

like the concerns that you sounded like people had not being affected by we

looking for the and right there for me right down here like the way a little to things that we need to disad. we all want to look back for other is there anything else we need to look at and affect

the 800. So it could still be a giant off if if there if I do anything. All right, I'm gonna let I'm asking. I just have one question for you. Do you have any concerns? Hold on. There is an order. I have something put up on the screen. That's fine. And and if we can send people how to do that, we take a minute job minutes reflecting that we can say that's not cooperating. I don't know what I don't know what's going on.

All right. So, we've had a discussion with the applicant. The applicant shown us the location of the driveway and also indicated a few other things on the plan that we couldn't pull up on the screen. Now that that's done, are there any other questions for the applicant from the board? All right. Seeing none, does the applicant have anything else you want to say? Of course, if something else is said, you will have a chance to respond again. But at this moment, is there anything else you would like to say?

Very good. Thank you. All right. Is there anyone from the public who has additional comments, questions, etc.

Perfect. All right. Again, please state your name and address so that we can take it in minutes. Steve again seven all days for the road. Um, I think there should be a big concern for Tony that a lot behind us. Like you said, in times you could be a good distance behind us. There's going to be an awful lot of runoff. If it's big, especially if it's big, I go out and you got 7 800 ft coming down from the top of that hill where the driveway is coming all the way down skirts our property north side and then it funnels right into the pit. I see that as a big concern. lot of an awful lot of a lot of if it's paid.

Thank you. Yes. Hold on.

Which of these three direct behind me? It's lot lot three is what you about three. Thank you. All right. Uh anything and we have warned from the public.

Yes, that's right. As I said before, things like wetlands, uh, design of pavement, where a driveway could go, everything else is the planning board's permit. But of course, the frontage to some extent may impact us, but to the extent it does, that's what we're here today to discuss. All right. Does we have another one? Um things today in making a change like this because all of you know that and it really said if you watch back you saw where it is and how it stuck to the man by precedent in terms of where people can actually build homes in in this town. Um, so I just encourage them to

Thank you. Uh, I do have actually I have a question for the applicant before whether they're not Yeah, go ahead. No. Um, and in a minute I'll let you respond to anything else that's been said that's new. But I do have a question in that. you had someone look at uh the requirements for current use, which is to say, as I understand it, you need a minimum of 10 acres to put something into current use, and that does not include whatever building space and such is on a property.

Yeah. That entire lot is that's acres. Oh, so the idea is it's the whole lot and if ever a home were to be put on it, it would have to be taken out of Yes. the entire

I see. Okay. professional plans for our own. Is there anything else you'd like to respond before I close the public hearing? Let me just say the spring.

Thank you. All right. Anyone from the public have any more comments that we have not heard before? All right. Seeing none, I'm going to close public comments. Um, now we're on board deliberation. Uh, all of you and the applicant have a copy of this variance workshop or worksheet. As you know, there are five requirements in order to grant a variance. So, in order for us to grant a variance today, the applicant must have demonstrated one, that the variance is not contrary to the public interest. Two, that the spirit of the ordinance is observed by granting the variance. Three, that substantial justice is done by granting the variance. Four, that the values of the surrounding properties are not diminished by granting the variance. and five that literal enforcement of the ordinance would result in unnecessary hardship. Before we discuss each of these individually, do we have any discussion from the board as to this application? Uh, uh, we've had other applicants request a marriage company bundling requirement and they've been denied.

Okay. I'll give my view and that is that um I don't know if there's any legal precedent to say you know such as if there's any validity of somebody coming in and saying hey you granted this one so you should grant mine though of course that has some amount of persuasive evidence. Um, but I will say that the purpose of the 200 foot requirement is in order to keep from congesting in part at least to keep from congesting the town, the area and the roadside views. Um and to maintain our our ordinance states the purpose as the quote preser or ensuring safety from fires protection of water and other natural resources and preservation of rural charm. And so at least to the extent that we are attempting to preserve rural charm diverging from the 200 foot requirement I suppose is less charming so to speak. That's my personal view. Uh that said, I don't know how much it does matter. I mean, look, it's small amount, but that's what the town settled on. Um, and I will say, you know, beyond that, what he wants to do with the property, in my view, is certainly up to him if he wants to log it as long as the permits are there and everything else. It might be a bummer for all of us or for neighbors, but he's allowed to do that. He's allowed to do it. So, in my view, it doesn't much matter to me what he's been doing or will be doing on here as long as it all passes through planning board. But the one thing that does seem to matter to me is that this this requirement has a reason. And I don't personally see anything about this property in particular that would mean that we should diverge from that that 200 foot ration.

That's my view. Yeah. Mr. Chairman if I may chairman said and find out how many other applicants have come before us doing the night. So it's was kind of weighing on me.

I will also note we we heard a couple other things um from a bud and from the applicant. We heard that it's going to be less private. But I think that does speak directly to the rental requirement, which is to say if you cram more houses together, then things are made noisier and more crowded. Uh we heard an opinion that that would impact resale value. Uh I will add that this is right outside the commercial district. So if ever there were somewhere that where the area might be um accommodating of a slightly more squished layout, I would think this would be it. Um, that's not continues for the

Yeah. Again, that's not to say it's it's not in the commercial district. So, we have rules,

but as far as the area that it's in, you know, this is probably one of the better areas that could squish things a little bit in my view at least. Um, we did hear testimony about it being wet and such. I don't know that that has too much impact on the frontage question, though obviously go to planning. And we heard uh testimony that they have been good, responsible, and courteous neighbors, which I just personally appreciate. But also, you know, I mean, it does say good things for how this might develop in later stages perhaps. And that's what I have. probably make a difference or not. But the account do this.

They do. I would say looking at this map it might cause other problems in that you know when they get to planning board at that point they're going to have to justify this strange jutting out portion that's just to satisfy the frontage and may depending on how it's cut may impact looks like might impact a septic area and I don't know what else. So they certainly are allowed. Yes, they are allowed to come back and ask for just the four feet if they redraw the lines. That's certainly true. Any other discussion from the board before we go to the specific requirements? All right, seeing none, we'll take them one at a time. The first requirement is that the applicant has or has not demonstrated well the requirement is that the applicant has demonstrated that the variance is not contrary to the public interest. Um to this point we've heard that it would not it's not a huge ask so to speak as far as at least the three considering the three together it is a 4ft difference. That said it's specific lot is 50 feet not four feet. That's not what they're asking for. So um and also on public interest, you know, we have the spirit of the ordinance and the fact that the public interest is that, you know, the rural charm and the spread out nature of our town be maintained. That's what I've heard at least. Do you have any discussion or in motion as to this first uh requirement? variance is not contrary to the public interest.

Is there a second?

All in favor of the applicant has not demonstrated that the variance is not contrary to the public interest. Please say I. I. Right. That's four. We're going to go through these notwithstanding that it does need to satisfy all four, but we will go through each one. The second requirement is that the applicant has demonstrated that the spirit of the ordinance is observed by granting the variance. Again, I think this is more or less same discussion we've heard. In addition, it's at least near the commercial zone. That said, spirit of the ordinance is to divide or to separate out um lots and maintaining rural charm. Do we have any discussion or a motion on this one?

Is there a second?

All right. All in favor of the applicant has not demonstrated that the spirit of the ordinance is observed by granting variance. I It's four third requirement that the applicant demonstrates that substantial justice is done by granting the variance. We've heard on this factor that um it'll allow the applicant to maximize the number of lots on the property or at least to to more efficiently maximize number of lots on the property. Um and of course against that we've heard the spirit of the ordinance for all charm etc. Do we have any discussion or motion on this one?

Yeah uh we can still use legalized programs. So I would say the advocate has not demonstrated that substantial justice is done by Is that a motion? Uh yes. All right. Do we have a second? Okay, we have a second. All in favor?

I I right 40. The applicant must demonstrate that the values of surrounding properties are not diminished by granting the variance. Um more density. We've heard about more density. We've also heard it's next to the commercial district to the extent that might matter. And we have heard at least one neighbor of the opinion that this will impact negatively impact their property value. Uh but the applicant has to affirmatively demonstrate that there will not be harm to nearby properties. So do we have any discussion or uh motion on this one?

Make a motion at has not demonstrated that the values of the surrounding properties not diminished by granting clearance. Is there

a second? I'll second. All in favor? I four. Finally, the app has to demonstrate that literal enforcement of the ordinance would result in unnecessary hardship. I think we heard more or less the same that we heard on the previous ones, which is to say that the hardship is not maximizing um the use of the property to be able to divide into three lots. And that's of course just juxtaposed against the town's interest in having the ordinance in force and spacing out the properties. Do we have any discussion or a motion on this last requirement liberal enforcement result?

Is there a second? Second. All right. All in favor? I. All right. And then finally to wrap it up, I would entertain a motion that the applicant has not demonstrated uh or that the applicant rephrase. I would entertain a motion to deny the application for a variance. Make a motion to deny variance for the application. Uh that all you need or do I need? Yeah, that's computer can fill in the second. All right, we have a second. All in favor? I

All right, that is a denied application. And with that, we will end the hearing for the application for map 3, lot 9. Uh you'll receive a written decision shortly. That'll also have a written statement of facts, findings of facts. I don't recall what the appeal period is but there is a set deadline if you want to appeal this. So keep in mind um if you do wish to appeal it we do have a some number of day deadline to do that. All right. Thank you. Thank you to the public for weighing in. All right. That hearing is over. So I would invite Mark to come join us again. All right. So, I have just we have a few things before we wrap up today. We have some meeting minutes and also I realized that our rules say that we should elect a chairman for one year. I think I've been doing this for longer than a year. So, um, let's start with that one. I'm happy to keep doing it if you guys want, but if somebody else wants to do it, then you are absolutely

chairman. I'll jump in and I'll make a motion to have you continue it. All right. It was unanimous. All right. Well, it was worth a shot, huh? All right. You weren't going to get that. I have to get that in writing. I'm going to write it twice. We had all the votes that could be it was worth a try. All right, good try.

On to meeting minutes. Um I told Peter today I personally haven't had a chance to really closely look at August 14th, but I have looked at um August 5th and at July 29th. I would suggest uh based on that that we if you're investing stuff on that we go one one after another on those two only but if somebody wants to I'll make a motion that we accept the minutes from July 205 as is there a second or is there anyone wants to give any one second

all right motion second to accept July 29th meeting minutes. All in favor?

All right, move it on the 29th. Uh, any discussion on August 5th? This was the short meeting. Now, I will acknowledge that we only had only two members who are here right now where that said, you don't technically need to be at the meeting in order to approve the minutes. that you have to be um you have to be comfortable with our procedures for reviewing, recording, taking minutes, etc. And if you're comfortable with that, those procedures would produce the correct meeting minutes and those who were there like the minutes then we can think it might be appropriate. I'm going to just make a motion. I wasn't at this meeting, but

I make a motion to spit. All right. I was there. So I will second that. All in favor for approving August 5th. Mark, did you vote for this? I just uh do you want to abstain or do you want to? We have abain.

You'll abstain. All right. So that's going to be four abstain. So the August 5th are also all set. Now, everyone has copies of the 14th. So, I'm going to say in the next few weeks, if you have any edits, whatever, please send them Peter. I will do a thorough review of this and get any Peter and then we can do those for 14th. Any other business for board Stacy's? Yeah, it's 30 days. No, he has not. And I believe he there's an email somewhere where he told us he didn't intend to. Okay.

He spoke to me uh called me on the phone to get information on how he could get his certificate of occupancy because he was taking all the material out of his trailers and he was going to move the trailers off site

and he so he does not need a setback. He does not need a storage change from the varian. So, uh, once he completes that, I also stated from the original planning report requirements that he had to put in, uh, retention pond and test wells that he had to get them certified and something on his septic had to be certified for the building inspector to complete his job. And as soon as he gets that from the engineering company, uh, he notifies the inspector and he'll go out and do the full sight inspection on it to make sure it it works. So, great. All right. I'll motion to adjourn.

Any second? All in favor? I. All right. Now that meeting is over, I do want to say uh that meeting got away from me a little bit. So, to the extent that I apologize for that, it's okay. Uh well, there's a little back and forth within the crowd and all, but

I have a question.

I have a question for you. Go. Thank you. Okay.