City Council - Special Meeting

She didn't know. I just asked her.

She said nobody told her they were missing. Nobody. All right. At 6 o'clock p.m. I'm going to call the council to order. Please rise for the invocation and pledge of allegiance. Councilman Smith is going to have our prayer.

Please bow your heads. Dear heavenly father, Lord, it's another time we get to come before you, God, and we just one want to say thank you, Lord, for for the day and uh and for blessing us and uh we just ask that you'd continue to bless this great city, God. We we know that you've got some great things coming for us, and we're just excited to to be able to be a part of it. We just ask that you would continue to work with this city and the things that it stands in need of to grow and continue to be the best for for our community. And we just ask that you would help us make good decisions up here, God. And that you would uh uh have our hearts always be in in your midst as we make these decisions. And we ask these in Jesus name. Amen.

Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for stands one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And now the Texas flagged Texas one state and indivisible. Y'all may be seated. Did you drop?

All right. Today is September 18, 2025. This is a special call city council meeting. We have one member absent, but we do have a quorum, so we may continue. All right. Agenda item number two, mayor announcements. I do not have any announcements tonight. Council, do you have anything that you would like to uh talk about during this time? Okay, moving on to agenda item number three, public comments. I received one yellow card that would like to speak during public comments. Mr. Knot.

Thank you, Mayor and Council. Good evening. I'm here to invite you to our Keen Chamber lunchon next Thursday, a week from today, September 25th. Our guest will be district 58 state representative Helen Kerwin to tell us what's been going on in Austin. So doors open 11:30. Our meal is now $20 per person. So King Chamber lunchon next Thursday with Helen Kerwin. Like to see you there. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Is there anybody that would like to speak during this time that did not turn in a yellow card? Okay. Agenda item number four, reports. We're here to hear the city manager's comments. Mr. Sites.

Good evening, council mayor, uh, citizens. Um, we, uh, it's been a little busy around here as you guys saw the commotion. Um, kind of exciting. Um, and I thought I I'm not at liberty to talk a lot about, you know, the show and all the things that were going on, but I thought it'd be fun to report to you. I've got to know uh quite a few directors even on a personal level um the last well week, week and a half and and a big thank you to Carrie and the team for accommodating them and and I've had several of them reach out and just say how wonderful our community is. Um they said they they said sadly, you know, sometimes they go to a lot of places and they're not friendly and and um and they said this was just one of the favorite cities they've ever been to. um they definitely will be keeping us in mind for future opportunities and um and uh I went over to the university today and got to visit with them some over there and just it's it's it's just great to hear um when people realize and recognize how wonderful our community is. So um I thought the community would like to hear that. Um we have been busy. Um I know the goal is to get budget passed tonight and and we are making preparations. Those of council that have been to my office saw my whiteboard and I had the pleasure of cleaning it yesterday. It was really nice to wipe it clean and and see 90% of it get cleaned off. And so we've started strategizing so that when um you know we get things official um we will start moving forward in 2026 and the list is even longer and I have no doubt that we will get it accomplished because this is a very efficient and wonderful team. Um, last thing I wanted to um uh to kind of try to get some input from you on um Covington Acres. Uh, as you can see out there where the apartment complex is,

there's a lot of uh dirt work going kind of right now. they're getting um you know kind of getting things lined up and and when I talked to their marketing team about doing um a groundbreaking you know they said you can do kind of just the shovels in the dirt but it's more fun and more impressive when you got the big equipment in there. So um she I asked her to give me some she asked for me to ask you for some uh dates. Um, and the dates she as she said that they could make work are October 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21, 28, 29, or 30. So, so really at the end of the day, um, uh, and I'll shoot you guys an email, but again, I kind of wanted to just let you know that that I hadn't forgotten this item. Um and uh but also um you know that just the community would want to hear it too. So um so they're they're all ready to do a big marketing campaign to get notice out there, put it in the papers and uh so be watching for that email and if you don't mind just respond uh what date would work best you know. So um and that's pretty much it mayor. Thank you.

Okay. Any questions for Mr. Sides? All right. Agenda item number five, public hearing items. We're here to hold a public hearing to receive citizen comments and hold a discussion on the proposed tax rate for 2025. Following the public hearing, the city council may review, consider, and set a date for taking action on the tax rate. you want to speak to what the tax rate is and then I'll open the public hearing.

Well, um I mean the to actually have that in front of me, Mera, sorry, what's the what's the tax rate?

Oh, 828978. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Um, actually the thing I kind of wanted to point out, um, and I'm sure people probably realize this, but just in case, um, there's several cities around us that are actually, um, going through some considerable tax increases. And, um, I think it's important to point out to this community that because of just the minimal growth that we've seen, we're seeing the benefits of tax decrease. And, and more importantly, this is the lowest the tax rate has been in 10 years. And so, um, again, uh, of course, want to thank God because I truly believe that he's blessing this city and I believe that he will continue to do so. Um, but very thankful for the growth, our community, the new developments, and, um, with everything that's going on. Um, you know, I think we have more great things to look forward to. So,

all right. At this time, I'm going to open the public hearing at 6:08 p.m. And I'd just like to add to the city manager's message that we dropped it about a half cent from last year. So, we didn't maintain it. We dropped it a half a cent, give or take.

All right. Is there anybody that like to come forward and speak to council about the proposed tax rate? Okay, I'm going to close the public hearing at 6:09 p.m. All right. At this time, I need council to make a motion to set a meeting for the date of Thursday, September 25 at 6 PM as the time to vote on approving and adopting a tax rate for 2025. Before we before we do that, I wanted to I wanted to give the citizens a chance to understand what the tax rate what what the number is and if it's a no new revenue rate or or not, you know, like I just want them to know all the information. So, can

All right. Can somebody clearly spell that out so that way the citizens understand what it is we're actually giving them for for that tax rate? Is it a no? Is it part of the new no new revenue rate? Councilman Smith, if you want to do that, we do not have discussion on this item tonight for council. This is just a public hearing. So, if you want to do that, I need to reopen the public hearing. If you want to if you want to discuss something we don't get to delegate even in the I'm I'm sorry. I figured public hearing was for the public and then we get to discuss.

But I closed the public hearing already. I just closed it at 6:09 p.m. So, if you want to speak, that's fine. I'll just reopen it. I would I would like that just so that way people can understand that fact. And I'm not speaking to it, but I'd like somebody some one of the staff members to Okay. Then I need to reopen it then. Yes, please. Okay. We're going to reopen the public hearing at 6:10 p.m.

And I apologize that for that, but if if somebody if somebody could speak to that, I'd sure appreciate it. Just so that way we communicate this clearly to the citizens. Good evening, Mayor Council. It should be the second page on your book. Um, city of Keen fiscal year 2025 2026 proposed budget cover page. This proposed budget will raise more revenue from property taxes than last year's budget by an amount of 153,457, which is 5.08%. 08% increase in revenue from last year's budget. This budget is based on the proposed tax rate of 0.828978, higher than a no new revenue tax rate of 0816257 and lower than the voter approval tax rate of 0849332. Is that good?

That's perfect. I just wanted to make sure it was clear to everybody what was what was happening. So, yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. All right. The public hearing is still open. Is there anybody from the public that would like to come forward and make any comments to the council? All right. I'm going to close the public hearing again at 6:12 p.m. Thank you, Mayor. You're welcome. All right. Now, I need council to make a motion to set a meeting date of Thursday, September 25 at 6 PM as the time to vote on approving and adopting a tax rate for 2025.

It's on the bottom of your red line. I'll make a motion to set a meeting date for I make a motion to set a meeting date for next Thursday, September 25 at 6 PM as a time to vote on approving and adopting a tax rate for 2025. Second.

All right. We have a motion on the floor to set a meeting date for the of Thursday, September 25 at 6 PM is the time to vote on approving and adopting a tax rate for 2025 by Foster and a second by Easley. All in favor, raise your hand. It's unanimous. Motion is carried. Agenda item number six, consent agenda. Council, are there any items A through D that you would like removed for further discussion? If not, then I need council to make a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented.

I move that we approve the consent agenda as presented A through D. A second.

Who seconded that? That was easily again. Okay. All right. All right. We have a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented by Shaw and a second by Easley. All in favor, raise your hand. It's unanimous. Motion is carried. All right. All right. Agenda item number seven, review, discuss, and consider action on an ordinance approving and adopting a budget for the city of Keen for the fiscal year beginning October 1st, 2025 and ending September 30th, 2026, and appropriating money for the various funds and purposes of such budget, including appropriations of money to pay interest and syncing fund requirements on all indebtedness. Council, do you have any discussion on this budget? We went through this budget pretty line by line at the last meeting. Is there anything you would like to bring back for further discussion or any changes that you would like to see in the budget?

I'd like to Sorry. Go ahead, Joy.

I'd like to say one thing. Um, I knew obviously I knew we was going to talk about this tonight and here I'm I'm like contemplating my own life as far as how I budget my own household and I'll I'll I'll say it in this fashion. So my kids and my wife trust me and they and they and they entrust me to to make sure that I live within my means. And I feel like that's a direct correlation to um us being kind of the parents right for for the staff members that are putting this together for us. And so my thought process behind this was is um you know I'm looking at the budget numbers. I was going over them again and I'm like, you know what? I I I I see I see all the moving pieces and I just have to trust that the city the city manager and his staff are going to do the right thing for our city. That's I I think that's the most honorable thing we can do. And I and I spoke with the city manager today about that. and and I understand that there's some there's there's a couple up here that that don't trust and have had problems with with some of our staff members. And but for me, I just wanted to at least just be transparent, honest, and say that that in order to move forward with a budget, you you have no choice but to trust in the people that that you're working with. And it's kind of, you know, it's not it's not babysitting my children to make sure that they don't go over budget. They don't even understand that. But they're looking at me for my household saying, you know, where's the next meal coming from? Right? I mean, honestly, I have a special needs son and he texts me, you

know, dad, what's for dinner? You know, and I got to respond to that in a way that clearly understands that there will be something on your plate tonight. And so by saying that I I'm I'm saying that I have full confidence in the staff in the way that it was presented last week and and I'm I'm ready to move forward with this budget as it was presented. Thank you, council. Any other comments? Do you have something up here? Okay, mayor. All right, Mr. Po.

Yes. um this budget I can say as your councilman Smith is saying that there are some of us here we don't trust it's not about trusting it's just about the priorities um many cities have trusted and they have ended up having issues even with good intention from the staff and also from the council it can work both ways the c the the staff recommend and the council says go ahead and then you run into a problem because what you are projecting doesn't come true and now everybody has to look at each other and say now we have to raise the taxes for the uh the taxpayer and after you know I've I've gone through the budget every line item tried to be very fair and I know we are trying just to fix the problems. The my concern is from the previous meeting, the way we had the discussion, the way the the water fund was handled, counting the assets plus the cash that we have and then using that figure to say this how much we have. That is a concern because if we don't if we were have if we could have a problem with one of our wells or any emergency we have run into a few in the past where one incidents almost $300,000 and then we have to look at do we need to cut do we need to freeze you know the hiring of some of the essential services you know staff Do we need to let some of the stuff go? Do what do we need to do? Do we need to go

and take a bond and that means raising taxes? Tough decisions. And the concern I'm having is the way it was put together. We drained so much over the years. I've watched how the water fund has been handled and we drained so much. We have drained so much from that fund to balance the general fund to pay for the overhead and uh the salaries um and know the cost of living is going up and that's the concern in that if we don't if we don't take care of some of these things I've seen since 2019 we were very conservative when Mayor Gary Henrik was here very conservative. We tried not to touch the water and sewer because we got that co money. We thought we were going to fix the sewer, but we use that money to raise the salaries for the employees and the benefits which I think is going coming to an end this year at the end of this budget and with some of the projects that are going on if

I don't think that money point of order I don't believe that money was allotted for salaries Mr. It will we converted it to salaries, some of it, majority of it. Okay. But you just said it was the implication was that it was and I think that you should retract that because I don't believe that's a true statement. 800,000. We asked for that fund to be allocated towards the sewer and we did use that money towards paying the payraises. You are in this this room. No. May I make a point of sir? May I make a point?

You're correct, Mr. Gwa. We did take some of this water sewer money and pay salaries because the salaries of those employees deal with water and sewer. It's part of their job to deal with water and sewer. Should the taxpayers pay the salary for an employee who works on water and sewer or should water and sewer pay the salary for an employee that works on water and sewer? Okay, you have a very good uh point. What I'm tell the concern the concern here we got free money that we are not going to return. You may think it's free money but it's it's free labor that the taxpayers are paying to the water and sewer fund. The water and sewer fund is finally paying their fair share.

That that's that's correct. Yes, it is. But we got we we received money that we did not have 800,000 what money? Co money. Co. Okay. And then we use that money to pay the pay increase. Was this last year? How much? That the finance they can tell us that number. So the problem that we have here now we are not having that money is no longer there. It's it's coming to an end. Now we have to use the actual water and sewer money that we have to keep up with the raises that we gave. And we have 3% 5% increase every single year. The insurance

Yeah. The insurance is going up. So the down insurance went down. Mr. Can you please stop interrupting Mr. Goodwill? He's talking to me. So I'm I'm answering. Let Mr. Goodwill finish. The insurance is going up and when No, insurance went down. Mr. Easley, we are we are hiring. Let me just brief fact. It's all fact is what we need. The insurance the cost that we are paying for insurance went up. We haded some stuff take care of business. So the that cost is going up. But anyway, mayor, I'd like to make a point of order. If he's going to make these statements like this and let's have him show his facts so we're not misleading the public and the people in the audience. We just voted to lower the insurance.

Yes. The interest rate went down, the benefit of insurance money that we did get. He's talking about the insurance that we're doing this year. Yes, we had more stuff. I did question that. Why did the cost of insurance went up? They say we added more employees. So that's a cost that we have to pay for. Well, yes. And okay, mirror was

I did ask that question. Are we paying less for insurance this year than last year for this fiscal year 2025 2026? Um, Councilman Goodwin, I don't have that number in front of me right now, and I'll be happy to get it for you, but I was the one who submitted the ARPA uh, reporting for this year, and I'll be happy to share with you how we spent it. The whole money that we received was $1,629,6630. Um, $222,92822 went to the gener generator improvement. Um, we spent over $12,000.37 $12,37 uh for the live streaming that we have right now. The sewer improvement, a total of $100,6157. The water line extension was 240,474.31 and the well number seven rehabilitation was477,57325. That is a total of 1,53. There are still there are still expenses that um that we have fully obligated an expended expense by December last year that we had to provide for the ARPA fund because it's fully expended. U but I can assure you to my knowledge and according to all the vendors that we have paid none of it went to payroll. We did, we did, according to the city manager who was here, I was in this room. Um, we did use some of that to cover the the payroll.

I I I don't use that. I don't see it. I I have to go back and look at that. Okay. Yeah, it was a previous city manager and a previous finance director, but yes, we were told that there were some increases that CO money was going to be able to pay for related to first responders. So we found out that we were able to use some some of the payroll for that and that's what we were told. That's what he's speaking to. Okay. And that and that part now is wearing down. So this budget 2025 2026 will start now we'll start paying that money not the co fund. It's running out I think. So that's a concern almost 200,000 that we have to come up with.

Yeah. what what happened in the past. Like I've told before, I'm not here to fix the problems of the past. I'm here to to look to the future. And whether CO money comes in or not, the budget has been factored in without CO money coming in. So it's a complete moot point.

Okay. So yeah, we have to carry that 100% that load that we were kind of getting helped by that money. So another problem that we have with this budget is we have actually as good as it as it might sound the fleet plan. Um there's a concern that spending 4 million leasing vehicle for 10 years and then you will have zero assets enterprise will still be having the the title.

Can I interject? And the difference between this this situation we are creating with city hall 10 million that was incurred by the previous council is that after paying this loan we'll have an asset which is serial and community center but after paying 4 million4 something5 for 10 years we'll have zero assets unless we decide to bite back and then start um improving our own fleet. That's our concern. Thank you. Can we No. All right. Mr. Smith, Mr. Easley, you want to speak first? No. Miss Smith, Mr. Smith was first. Okay. Mr.

So, instead of scaring the public about a huge dollar amount at $4 million over 10 years, can we at least keep the focus to this year's fiscal budget? So, when you say something like that, $4 million sounds like a lot of money, but that's over 10 years, but we're talking about this year. So when you're talking about the budget, I would like you to keep things to the one year that we are actually talking about. Does that make sense? When when you up on the fleet program, you just mentioned $4 million over 10 years. We're not we're not discussing 10 years worth of stuff right now. We are talking about 25 26.

Okay. And that's another problem. That's another problem because we are treating the police cars that are down that have maintenance as an emergency issue like we have to do it right now otherwise there's no tomorrow. There are ways to fix it. There are alternatives and the public doesn't you know it doesn't make sense with the public when you talk to they say why we know there are options. Did you guys look into that or just jumped into the last option to hand over the assets and then you'll be crippled for the next 10 years because you have to pay them off for you to be able to own those vehicles and then put them on a different schedule and then to finish. So most cities as clean some vehicles we have been very lucky the way we have handled vehicles. Some of them have been donated to the city. They might have not been a a very good condition, but people understood the need of the city to have vehicles to move from point A to B. And over the years, we have bought one or two vehicles as the need arose. And but this budget will force the city to have to buy almost five vehicles. I know the vehicles 75,000 for the police and the fire apparatus is a different uh thing because we have to add more accessories but now we are we are we are forcing the city to have to buy five vehicles that's 400 500,000 for regular vehicles but for the police we have it's 70 80,000 plus the equipments so we are we are we are it's like we are going to put the taxpayers on steroids like we have to spend we have to spend a half a

million whether we like it or not whether whether we have money or we don't have money we we know how the economy goes every eight years there's a recession things happen you don't get enough property taxes sometimes because different demographics if you have seniors you get a certain amount disabled and veterans you get a certain amount we are not going to assume that we are going to collect all the taxes at the same time. So that's the issue is that locking in a half a million every single year and then enterprise years will tell us by fourth year or fifth year we need you need to turn that vehicle in so we can give you a new vehicle and it's not guaranteed it's going to be a zero mileage. It might be 15 20,000 50 you know it's what they give you that's they're going they're going to manage it. So the the issue you're going to run into

Can I Can I speak? You've gone on for way more than your time alone. This fleet I know. So I'd like to speak to the fleet because a lot of Anyway, but I'm just saying in general, let me finish. In general, this fleet this fleet this fleet plan, the taxpayer out there doesn't like this plan. Well, not the ones I've talked to. Okay. Thank you. So, if I may.

Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Do you understand what a vehicle is as as an asset as opposed to a building? So, a building's real estate. It's an appreciating asset. It always increases in value. A vehicle is a depreciating depreciating asset. We will continually lose value. The Chief's new Tahoe, we bought it brand new. If we keep that for 20 years, do you know what it's worth? Nothing. Nothing. A depreciating asset does nothing for the city. a vehicle, your car, what is your car worth? What did you pay for it? You will always lose money on vehicles. Always. The fleet program allows us to maximize our return on our investment so that we can mitigate loss of revenue. We can mitigate loss of customer goodwill, which is our citizens and our taxpayers. We can mitigate loss of life. If your car doesn't start tomorrow morning, it's an inconvenience. You don't get to work. Okay? If that fire apparatus, police car, sewer truck doesn't start, people lose their life. We don't respond to sewer emergencies in a timely manner. We lose customer service. Do you understand? Depreciating asset doesn't do the citizens any good. We need good functioning vehicles that are reliable. And this is what it takes. We cannot survive as a city buying one or two cars every couple years. We have a fleet that's aging and dying and cannot do its work.

Thank you, Mr. Sides. Do we have a list of all the vehicles that we are using for this enterprise plan? Because I haven't seen it recently. We got it two weeks ago of what we're turning in. It's been in like it's been handed council multiple times. I know, but I don't know if it's changed or not, and I haven't seen it recently. Has it been emailed to me recently? 2019. It It is the same that it's been for the last six months. All right. Can you get me another copy? Um, not right this minute, but yes, I can get you another copy.

I'd like to respond to um what Mr. Gwa had said. Um so about a month ago we started the the discussion on the uh the budget and we were actually excuse me it was we were discussing the tax rate and the tax rate was lowered and there was a there was a possibility that I was trying to raise it which obviously wasn't wasn't true. I was just trying to make the ceiling go a little higher so we we had some wiggle room. Uh but on that same note, uh a discussion was brought up that there was only like a $41,000 difference between the budget and what the actual revenue that the city was going to bring in. And uh Mr. Gutwis said that's fine. We don't need that. But tonight, here we are faced with passing this budget and he's worried about the numbers and and currently we have about $100,000 difference between the budget and the revenue that's coming in. So So $41,000 he was okay with

to the good a month ago and tonight at at $100,000 he's not okay with. So, the the thing that strikes me fancy here tonight is um it's it's all because of this one thing that we all call fleet that we're that we're so passionate about or dispassionate about. And and that's the that's the catalyst for the conversation turning and going sour. But you can't take back your words from a month ago where you said that 41,000 to the good was fine and now it's not. So, I'm not following the logic and I don't think the citizens are either.

Okay. Ma'am,

yes. I was going to call you in just a minute. I've still got you. Yeah, you can go ahead. You can You want to go and call him? Yes. Okay. Mr. Bon, you want to go ahead and speak now? I need to just move. Okay. Good afternoon, city council. And I wasn't Don Bson 607 Woodlon.

I wouldn't didn't plan on speaking at all. Didn't plan on being here until this weekend. The mayor was out knocking on doors north of town for her candidates that she wants elected next year. Mr. Foster, I'm sorry you didn't make the list. And someone I talked to didn't understand this $4 million. They really think and and obviously two people don't understand what you've been saying for a month. They really think that this year we're going to spend $4 million on cars. And as far from the truth, but that's the information they're being fed. There four or five of you up there. I enjoy I I really respect Mr. Easley. I'm glad he said what he did about depreciation because I respect him as a businessman. I've known Mr. Shaw more, Councilman Shaw longer than any of you. He's always dabbled with vehicles one way or the other. If he know anybody knows cars, he knows about cars. Mr. Smith, you have your own business and you used to budgeting for income and profit and loss and projections. Mr. Foster, you're a businessman. You know more about that than I ever thought about. And Bob Chapman over there, he probably could tell us more than about cars than most of us have ever forgotten about. Leasing of vehicles is commonly done. Thousands of businesses, dozens, hundreds of municipalities lease vehicles and leaves their capital, their local capital for other things. You don't have to go any further than Alvarea, any further than Joshua, even up to everyone to find out about what it's like to lease vehicles and how that frees you up from other other responsibilities. I I don't understand a couple of people that you I know you've given information to. They just it's not grasping. It's not sinking in or they don't want it to sink in. One of the two. But I as a coun as a city citizen, I support the city council. I respect the city council. Five of you on there I tremendously respect. And just for the record, mayor, we've leased cars in Keen

a long time ago. Your your hero, Danny Roberts, was mayor and we leased cars, lease police cars on the Ford Motor Company municipalities. I don't know if it even still exists. Thank you for calling him my hero. When I was do what? I said, "Thank you for calling him my hero."

Well, I know he is. It's quite obvious. He believed everything he said and and went to him with every problem you ever had before the rest of us ever even saw what the problems were. But um so it's historically Keane has leased some things before. It's not unusual to freeze some money. So that's all I want to say. I have respect for you guys. If y'all think it's the thing to do, I support it 100% as a taxpayer and I think taxpayers do. Your statement that taxpayers don't want it is not true. Only the ones that you've gone to and said they got to spend $4 million this year don't want it. And that's not true. So, thank you very much for letting me talk to you. Okay, Mr. Bon. The 4.2 million we are 4 4,274 322

over over the life of the contract the cost of this decision tonight. Yeah. And you know, I don't I'm a little confused. You live in San Antonio during the week. Why does it bother you what we do in Keen anyway? That's not your business. You don't have an apartment in San Antonio. That's none of your business. It is too. You're our prayer prom. You're supposed to be here to to fill in when the mayor's not here. You asked me about where I got the number. I said the total amount it will cost the taxpayer is 4.2 million. Once we And why did the city stop leasing vehicles? It's expensive.

Well, no. They're financially caught up and they could afford. No, it's not expensive. They paid less per year on leases than if they bought them, they turned the cars in. But when they got worn out, but at that time they didn't have the capital to buy. Just like today, you don't have the capital. You got about four police cars up there and either you nor I would drive to San Antonio and back or wouldn't drive to Austin and back. We probably wouldn't go to Dallas and back at them. And they're emergency vehicles, but you can't afford to buy four new vehicles this year for them, plus the other needs that you have. So, you're just spreading your expenses out over a period of time. and and I don't know anything about this lease, but any municipal lease I've worked for the state for 25 years or county for eight years as county commissioner. I never saw a lease that there was an op a way to opt out of it if you had to. I don't know about this one. Maybe I'm speaking out of turn, but normally on a lease you're able to opt out if something comes up, some financial crisis comes up, you can return the vehicles or you buy the vehicles or whatever it is. I don't know what but I'll bet you there's an opt out of this lease. I never saw one there wasn't. Most of us associate it with personal lease. You and I buying cars, paying so much for a mile to drive them. This is not the same thing.

Okay. So the question should be to the city manager. Thank you. So in 2034 once we pay 4.2 million, will we horn any vehicle out of all this vehicle we are giving up? No. Why would you want to own a vehicle? Then you have zero asset in 10 years. Was I not correct? are depreciating assets. They're equity. You have equity in Listen to me. You have equity in the ones that you are leasing. Okay. Wait, hang on. Just you've talked plenty. Please understand. I want to know why did you stop at 4 million? If we're going to be here for 20 years, that's 8.4 million. No, I'm using numbers.

And then it's 12.6. I mean, it just keeps going. Holy cow. We're going to bankrupt this thing in no time. Councilman Foster. And see how ludicrous that is. And the question I have, see how ludicrous that is? The question I have, the question is, do you see how ludicrous that is to paint a picture for $4 million? Okay, it's 200,000 this year and about 400,000 every year past that. That's the facts, folks. Question, city manager. The vehicle you are giving up right now, what is their value? Is it zero? No, pretty close.

At the at the 10th year, we have zero vehicles. No, we have we have we have equity in the vehicles that are on our duty. There's equity in every vehicle we're leasing. We own equity in it. You understand equity? Do you understand the word equity? Yeah, I understand that. Okay. So, do you know equity is value? Right. Equity is value. Follow me. Equity is value. Yes. So the question is after 20 2034 tell me how many vehicles and the the worth that keen will be horning that they can sell at any value zero. And that's the problem. But right now we are giving up almost 26 with the value.

You do not understand. You do not understand leasing. I understand. I I've leased vehicles. No you don't mud. Anyway, by 2024, we will probably have gone through about 60 vehicles because they'll rotate them in and rotate them out. So, by 2024, we're going to have 2024 vehicles in 2025. In 25 and it'll just grow on. And we do, he did say we had an option. He comes back in six months to verify and make sure everything's running all right. And if we need to change it, we can change it in six months. Every six months, he comes back. Yes. Whatever they tell us in front here and what is on the contract is going to be the same

to to he might not be here. He might he's a salesman. He's selling us the contract be able to trustful person aren't you? You know salesman will sell you stuff. What counts is the contract? I understand. So I haven't seen the contract. So you're telling me they are going to come back.

But if he tells us it's going to be so much money, he can't go above that because that's what he's given us. It's like say I'm at work. I tell somebody it's going to cost them $6,000 to repair their vehicle. I get it in there and I find another $4,000 worth of stuff to do that needs to be done. I go to them. They're like, "No, you told me it was going to be $6,000. I've got to stick to that. Even if it cost us $10,000, I've already give them a price. Give them a quote. You must stick to what you give them to us. I don't have any reason not to believe this guy's going to tell us it's going to cost us $2,000 $200,000 this year and then come back with the $400,000.

He's already give us a list of the cars, the 29 vehicles. Those are going to depreciate and go out within two to three years. We'll get brand new ones for those. And it's just going to be a cycle. It's going to be over and over and over. So, we're getting 29 vehicles versus having to buy five vehicles that we have to maintain the maintenance and everything on them. With the fleet through Enterprise, they're going to take care of all that for us. Yeah, I I agree with you. The problem here is a half a million every single year and we normally run on a thin

200 300,000. So it means we have to write them a check and the loan for obligations that we have for the serial and other things and then whatever is left is what we'll say okay what do we do do we need to send some maybe five employees home because we have to balance the budget stop stop can we let the I'm just telling you I mean it sounds good but there's a cost miss Gillan would you like to speak

yes please I didn't have a yellow card but Samantha Gillan 218 West 4th Street Texas, Mr. Gutwa. I have a lot of respect for you. One of my problems is that you seem to create more problems. You've got other council members here who are intelligent people, business people, as well as our mayor. They have intelligence. Do you think that all of them are going to vote for something bad for our city and you're the only one that's not? In other words, are you really reading that and getting all of that? Because it doesn't sound like it to me. I own my own business. And I do what's better for my business, but I also do what's better for my employees. There's no way I would have these police officers, the firemen, or the plumbers or our waterworks people going out in vehicles that didn't work. especially your first responders and the people who are saving your life. I mean, this plan and I was in here when the guy was here talking about the leasing and he did offer some options. I can't remember what they were, but he did. And so, this all these people are intelligent. They've all gone through that. This budget's been worked on for a while now that I know of. So, why is it such a problem all of a sudden when you're ready to vote on it that you create such a hassle about it? I I don't understand it. I'll never understand it. And and seriously, I don't even want to hear an answer to that. I just want you to know how I feel. I think that's the worst thing you could possibly do for our city. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Skelly. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Ray Johnson, 109 Christine Street, Cleveland, Texas, King or 76031. uh council on city manager. Uh just this is for you sir. What cars are we going to get rid of and what trucks are we going to get rid of? You know there is a there is a list that's been produced and it's 29 vehicles. The fleet is roughly you know around 50 but that includes trailers, large equipment, correct those types of things. But we got daily vehicles. Well,

eventually it's going to take two, three years to rotate through rotate through the mall because the thing is this isn't a light switch. You don't just these cars magically show up and then um case in point when we were talk looking at outfitting just to receive the lights for the police cars just get them here. Yeah. 12 weeks. You still have to get the car. You still have to put them on. I mean, this is a this is a major overhaul that's going to roll out over the course of at least a couple years. Correct. Um, you know, and obviously we're going to focus on the ones that are in the the worst shape first. Correct. And then rotate the other ones out as time allows. So, we going to go with the old ones and then work our way up. Is that what you're saying?

The the ones that are the most critical. Those are like we're focusing right now um as we are starting to come up with game plans to put things into actual place. you know, once this gets passed, right? Um we've been on the phone with um vendors and those types of things and uh fleet and everything and and so our first priority right now is the police department. Fire department, the two the two older vehicles, right? Okay. But I don't agree with Chucky on this new Tahoe we got. I mean, he's here right now. If he pitchs 10,000 miles a year on that, it'll be lucky because he's the only one that drives that. But I don't think we need to get rid of that period down the road if it's true what people are saying.

That's the beauty of it. We get final say. Okay. Well, I'm just asking. That's why I want to know. Fleet fleet fleet is only here as an adviser to tell us how to best maximize um you know return on investment so that we can decrease cost. Yeah. At the end of the day, fleet vehicles are cost but but if you can minim mitigate that, minimize it, then that's a positive. So in four years um if chief doesn't want a new vehicle, we don't have to we don't have to. Correct.

So So this is more just leveraging ex expertise and people that have real buying power to help us go out and fix our fleet program. Yeah. I got I just wonder and I I agree with you. The police needs more cars than anybody right now. If we get out there, it's terrible on them cars and there and well, I had the pleasure of driving one yesterday and I had to call our police chief and say, "Is the engine light supposed to be on?" I mean, that's just that's just the way these vehicles are,

right? They're older cars. A lot of them are older. Yeah. Lot high dollar miles. And and the thing is there's this there's this conception that enterprise like let's just say we drive a vehicle, we buy it for $50,000 for simple math and we we depreciate it 20,000 and all of a sudden that vehicle is worth $30,000. Okay, that 20,000 if we want to buy the vehicle that's still our our our equity. But the problem is is that it's a vehicle. It depreciates. And so, you know, I I appreciate um Councilman Easily for, you know, understanding that. Um, so anyway, the problem is is it's a problem and we're trying to fix it,

right? Not I mean, I quite understand, you know, when you say the police cars, I know for a fact we need them. I mean, I I was proud of one the other day over there cleaning it. I mean, he was washing it and every I told the chief about it. You don't see that much. But when I travel to go home and I pass the little police station, it blows my mind when I see him out there with the Waller hose cleaning cars and they're only one on dirty. But you know, I'm just bragging on them because I like the chief and I know we need new cards. So I appreciate you counseling. Thank you. Mr. Chapman, did you want to speak? Sure. You want to let Mr. Kn first? Okay. Mr. Kn.

Thank you. Paul not uh 107 North old Mansfield 38 years in Kee. Let me wrap this up with some words from J Paul Getty multi-billionaire who had some advice regarding finances. He said if an entity appreciates buy it if an entity depreciates rent it.

Thank you. What a great statement. So I would just like to say a couple of short things. Um, I think what what the city and what we really understand is that safety is the most important thing for our city right now. And in order to be able to move on the way this city needs to move on, safety has got to come first. And we can sit here and dazzle everybody, especially me, about leasing and and cars and all that, but it doesn't do any good until people see what what the result really is and how it really helps a city and a company to be able to do this. Safety being first and foremost, I don't see any other way that we should look at it truly. So, um, we we hope that our citizens appreciate what we do. We hope that our citizens appreciate how we vote. So that's it. Thank you.

I believe it's a morale builder also because if you're driving junk, you're going to feel like junk. If you're driving a new car, you're going to want to take care of it. I think it's going to be a morale builder for our employees also. Mr. Foster,

and I'd like to respond to Mr. allegation that we're going to be sending five employees home because we can't afford to um lease these cars. Our finance director showed us the certified values from the uh county appraisal district last week and the appraised value went up $9 million in Keen in just 12 months. That's the the assets that are already here. Plus, we've got m much more on the way. So, I don't have any reservation about sending five employees home with this budget. We've got a hundred,000 little over $100,000 left over after the fleet, after the three firemen, after the development person, and there's one other marketing person. We're still $100,000 to the good. I can't imagine why we're spending 50 minutes talking about $4 million.

All right, Mr. Johnson, do you have another comment to make? Yes, ma'am. Uh Ray Johnson, 109 Christine Street 10009. Uh what I come up back up to say, you know, what are we going to do with the police cars? What my concern is because they drive around more than anybody here. And uh I know they say three years on or what is it? Four years on three to four years.

Yeah. Okay. But I don't know how long you know I know they drive a lot cuz I see them everywhere I go and that's great. I mean but when we get all the mouths on the police cruise I guess even in two years if we get that mouse we could get rid of them and get a new one. Is that correct? That's I was just wondering how they do that with the police cruisers. All right. appreciate. Yeah. Chief kid, would you like to speak to your department? Okay.

Mayor, council, there's been a lot of talk about the police department and we carry about 10 cars in that fleet. So, when I got here about two and a half years ago, this was the state of the fleet. I went to the backyard or the back area of the police department. There's one Dodge Charger with weeds growing through the car and around the car. We had one that had over 200,000 miles. We had another car that we couldn't drive at nighttime because it only had electricity wiring for the daytime usage. So, y'all been so supportive for the police department. And for me personally, y'all did allowed us to get a Durango, but we purchased one police car in almost five years. So, the previous police cars are 21 and older. I've had to be creative in how we keep those functions. I took one car out of the detective division, put on patrol because we only had six. Now we have seven on patrol. I had to take off the supervisor on the patrol or the pickup and put a prisoner transport in there so we could use it as a functional vehicle so everybody could drive it, not just supervisors. We talking about being creative is that basically all the officers have pitched in and out of the seven patrol vehicles. Usually you try to rotate them out every 80 to 100,000 miles. That's not talking about engine wear. Police cars idle all the time for traffic stops, traffic accidents, parades. So every hour that that vehicle idles, that's about 20 30 miles additional to the odometer. So if you have a police vehicle that shows 100,000 miles, it's actually about 150,000 miles of wear and tear on the vehicle. So it's again, it's a testament. So out of our seven patrol vehicles, five of them by that recommendation would need to be replaced. We have two of them that wouldn't need to be replaced this time. So I'm not saying one way or the other. I just know there there is an issue and I know that you're going to find the best way to fix that issue. But it's a

testament to our officers for pitching in and last week one of our citizens came up saying we need more accountability. We need checklist and we want them to go through each time and make sure how they can maintain these vehicles and operate to do preventive maintenance. We did we we have these officers checking oil, checking tires, everything else make longevity of this stuff. I put in policies that they cannot let this car idle more than 15 minutes at the police department when they're doing reports. It's not popular because when these officers get back in that car, it takes about three to five minutes, reboot everything, reboot the body camera system, reboot the computers, and they're having to get to a hot call to help these citizens out. Of course, everybody in this city would love to buy be in new cars. Ours isn't just about officer safety because I want officers being in safe vehicles, but it's also responding to our citizens and being safe for them at the same time. One of the biggest compliments I've seen being in Keem is I don't think these citizens understand how old these cars are because they look decent. When you go out there, you can't tell if one's a 2014 or 2023. So, I'm really take pride in that. I've we spend we I was going to say we spend personal money on car washes and stuff. uh we call it our little budget fund, our personal fund. So they go out there. That's why Mr. Johnson saw them washing cars. So we try to take pride in it. So this doesn't even address the daily repair and the frustration and hoping that car gets us from one call to to the other. So again, I appreciate everything y'all done. You taking care of the police department. Y'all expect the directors bring to you what y'all needed. I have spoke to the two previous city managers before, Mr. Sites, and we've made it work. So, and we will make it work. We'll make it work next year and next year after that, but I just want to let y'all know the status and state of the vehicles. Y'all have any questions?

Do you have any vehicles down now or are they all running? They're all running. We have a white board next to the lieutenant's office. He's the one that actually does our fleet maintenance and he repairs them every single day. So, when I say they're all running, but they almost all have check engine lights on them. They all have traction devices not operating. Don't forget the gas leak.

The Dodge Charger has a gas leak. They can't get in there until they change the o O-ring out and all kinds of stuff. When I'm saying they're running, but they're not all safe. So, it's these electrical problems and we can fix them, but it's going to cost I think we're budgeted 15,000 a year for maintenance. And it's only because public works has been helping us out. We've taken cars offline for about four months at a time to try to save money. We're on eBay. We're do taking out barter systems. We're doing everything we can to keep these cars up. So, at this time, they're safe enough to for officers to drive in, but you can't rely on them for the whole 12 hour shift is what we're saying. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions for Chief Kid? Mayor. Yeah.

I'd like you to make a motion to pass this. Okay. I have to do it in a certain way, but that council, do you have any other further questions and discussion about this budget? No, ma'am.

So, mayor, I know we are finishing this. Um, I know that there are some comments that were thrown at me and I do not respond to that. Um, when I when I come here and speak to you, of course, I'm a taxpayer. I'm just one. When I'm telling you this, I know the police needs uh vehicles. Actually, it came up when we were working on the 1.4 million for the fire engine and brush track, but the priority was who is supposed to be funded. Is it the the fire department or the police? So for the police to get their vehicles, there are options that the council can take. If there are seven vehicles, yes, I'm the I'm the same person that voted for the fire engine 1.4 million in this room, even though most council members did not want to vote for it up to the last minute. So I I know safety is very important. I've benefited from the the fire and also the police. I've had incidences in the past. They have responded. I would like them to have good vehicles. The concern is when I speak to the taxpayer out there, they they know they know the the issue we have. They know we are on a a thin budget, but they also know we have crumbling infrastructure. The clay pipes that are kind of giving up. They they they're almost stretching to the last limit and we have other obligations are coming up the sewer plant. So we have to issue a bond or whatever it will be which is raising taxes on top of this which is almost 4 million after everything is seen and done after 10 years. So the issue is it's not like I don't understand leasing.

If we were to get the police department new vehicles, there are many ways of how many ways to achieve that. How? But we are treating we got the fire department fleet, right? So So how would you how would you replace five police vehicles? Yeah, there there are ways to achieve that. How there are ways to achieve that? Liberate force. Can you give us an idea of what you have? Okay. I thought you don't want me to spend long time to explain some of this. You say there's an idea. Let's let's talk about an idea. The the ideas are out there. The ideas are here from the citizens there. They have ideas and I've heard those buy used cars. I haven't said that. I haven't said that.

So there are many ways that the council can be able to solve to bring our police fleet to compliance where we have safe vehicles. We have brought the fire, you know, the fire department to almost reasonable. We are ambulance. We have the fire engine brush truck. So there are ways to do that. The problem here if you if you don't get everything that I'm trying to tell you is you are committing the taxpayer a half a million every single year for the next 10 years. No sir, we're not. We're doing it for the rest of as long as Keen is a city and then we have 20 million. Keen is a city. We need to spend this money on cars. We have, as long as we're a city,

okay, we have almost 22 million that we have to issue as a bond to bring the infrastructure to a reasonable kind of state. So when you had those things, what where's that data? 22 million for what? There's a CIP for a plant upgrade. It's coming up in just a few years.

So I'm just saying that the the the taxpayer is saying this is not a priority. the police department. We can address that. We address the fire department. This council and some previous council members that are not with us. We addressed the fire department and everybody said that one was a wise decision. And what I'm telling you is they are saying this is not a priority. We picked it and we are trying to say we have to do it but it it's it doesn't even come close to number three top three of the priorities. So that's what I'm telling you. I'm not saying fleet plan leasing is bad and I know I've leased vehicles. I know the cost how much you end up paying at the end of the lease. So if you miss everything, that's what I want you to get is just committing a half a million or 400 400,000 every single year for the next 10 years and then you have zero vehicles.

How much do you pay at the end of the lease? Are you asking me a question? Yeah. How much do I do? What? You made the statement. You said, "And you have to pay at the end of a lease." And I'm asking, you said, "I've leased vehicles and I know how much you have to pay at the end of a lease." I'm saying, "How much do you have to pay at the end of a lease?" It depends on the manufacturer.

No, it depends on the miles that you drove. I'm saying it depends what you pay depends on the manufacting that you have to No sir at the end of the lease if you haven't exceeded your miles you pay what's the number I'm looking for zero right zero there's no money factor there's no nothing you turn the car in throw them the keys and walk away we're also a municipality and we We don't worry about the mileage. Yeah. Yeah. We don't have a mileage cap.

What I'm asking you is you're saying you're not the money factor determines how much you pay per month. But you made the statement and I remember you saying, "I've leased cars and I know how much you have to pay at the end of the lease." And I'm asking you to back up that statement with fact. How much do you pay at the end of a lease? It's the total amount it cost you to lease that vehicle. If it is 5 years, you pay all that amount and you own zero. You have no no vehicle. You return the vehicle and if you have damages, you pay on top of that which you have no control.

But Mr. Guda, if we have that vehicle for five years and we paid so much for it and they turn around and sell it and we get that money back, how much are we making by driving that vehicle for five years and turn around selling it? How much is what's left over is what's that going to cost out for a year? the definition he gave us the other day, excuse me, at the end of a four-year note to say that he told us that if we paid $70,000 for that vehicle, he turned around and sold it for $40,000. So that left us with 20,000, that's less than $1,000 a month that we paid for that vehicle to drive it for four years.

And I I I I know Enterprise is a business. Yes. Excuse me, Councilman. I I've leased two cars. In fact, I've leased about eight cars, but I got money back on two cars. This one day I opened up the mail and I got a $3,000 check from one car that I turned in and I got a $2,600 check on another one. How do you explain that then based on what you're saying? Because they charged you amount high amount and No, no, no, no. You're wrong. They sold it for more than what the residual value was. It depends on the agreement.

It's not has nothing to do with the money factor. Has nothing to do with whether I'm a brain and I make money on a car or not. Has everything to do with what the car is valued at every particular time that you look at it. You can look at it every six months, every year, every three years. So leasing is going to get this city out of the rut that it's been in and allow our city staff, meaning the police and the fire to drive vehicles that they're going to be proud of. And they're going to be able to use them and service the community much much better than they've ever been able to. Mr. I promise you that.

Mr. Chapman, I believe that uh the enterprise guy said when we lease a car, the lease uh details are said at the beginning,

the value of the car, the payment of the car. So, when we get to that point where it's reached its value, what we don't know is what it's worth on selling. Mr. Good. Well, I think you're trying to say that that we're blind going into this and they're going to try to rob us on the tail end. We know the details going in 100%. We know every detail. What we don't know is what we can sell that car for. That's what they're going to do every six months. They're going to tell us what that value is worth and they're going to predict when it starts to drop drastically. Now, the new Tahoe, it's already lost value. You know that, okay? It's not worth the 83 or $90,000 we've spent on it, including paint, graphics, and lights and all the stuff. It's not worth it. It's not how vehicles work. You lose 20% when you drive it off the lot.

Yeah. F say they lose they lose value as soon as you drive out the lot. $20,000. But at least we get to recoup some money. All right, Miss Gillan, would you like to speak again? Yes, thank you. Samantha Gillan to 18 West Fourth Street, King, Texas. Mayor, this is a question for you. Okay. Did we not throughout the the different meetings go through all this budget and everything and then we had our financial department look at it? Did everybody not agree that it was a good budget? Yes, we have had multiple over the budget.

That's that's what I thought. Well, with your help, maybe we can move past this and get this budget passed. The policemen need those cars. The chief stood up here and told you exactly what he's going through. He's sitting in a closet even, not counting the cars. Our fire department, they have to work so hard to just try to get something. And I know we're in trouble financially as far as not having a lot of money, but we got a bunch of houses in here now. We're getting more more taxes in and everything and there's more houses coming and now that the interest rate is going lower, I'll be selling a heck of a lot more houses. And so all I'm saying is why don't we vote on this budget and get this budget in place and stop rehashing it and beating it to death, Mr. Gotaw.

Thank you. Thank you, Miss Gillum. Thank you, Mr. SC. Can I respond here? I've been sitting here and listening and trying to decide whether or not I should speak up or not. Mr. Gutwal, what is it you're trained to do? What is your degree in? What do you do for a living? Aren't you an Aren't you an engineer? How are you that related to the budget? Well,

um, trust me, we've gone off topic here a few times, so I'm going to go off topic here. And since you don't want to answer, I' I've heard that you're an engineer, so I would consider you an expert in whatever field you are in. I didn't just wake up one day and go, "Hey, we need to fix a fleet problem. Let me just look at one option." I've weighed a lot of options. I've spent hundreds, maybe thousands of hours analyzing the situation. The good Lord took me down a path of being becoming a good businessman. My degree is in business. My experience is in business. And one of the issues I keep hearing that really really frustrate me is this aspect of fear. I've been with companies that have gone belly up. I've been with companies that went bankrupt and we had to adjust and guess what? They came out of it and they're doing great. It's part of life. It's part of business. And and are in business you try to mitigate and focus so that bad things don't happen. My mentor told me leadership is meant to see further, more and before. I'm not looking right here. You're right. I am looking down 10 years from now. And I pray the good Lord keeps me here for that long because I'm here because I love this city. And so I think the biggest problem I have I'm not a finance expert. That's why I have a finance director. I'm not an HR expert. That's why I have an HR director. I'm not a development expert. That's why I have Dawn. And And my problem that I keep hearing is is we're instilling fear into a community when we should be talking about how blessed we are and how excited we are. I I've been talking to other cities that are that are struggling with things that we don't even have to think about right now. And and when I looked at this plan, trust me, there's contingency plans in the

back of my mind all over the place for if if if all hell breaks loose and all of a sudden we we don't have any more developed for some for some reason, I still feel confident. We've got $655,000 in CIP pro uh projects on my board back there that we're not going to have there. There's plenty of ways to to adjust. It's called business. It's what we do. And and and if and if you're fearful, I I can appreciate that. There's plenty of times in my life where I've been fearful. But this is not a time that we should be so scared that we don't move and we just stand in place and do nothing. This is a time that we need to be looking forward and being thankful that the the good Lord is blessing our city. And and we've just barely scratched the surface. There's things that we're working on that I'm not at liberty to talk about that the community is going to benefit from that's going to be great. So, am I sitting here worried about $400,000? No. Because this is what I was trained to do. This is what I'm good at. And I'm sorry that you don't feel confident in me or comfortable with me. And and I want to say that's because I've met with you two times in nine months. These other five gentlemen meet with me almost weekly. So, the reason they're comfortable with me is because they know that this isn't me just going, I'm going to throw this against the wall and hope it sticks. It's because we've put a lot of time and effort into trying to fix problems. Trust me, I'll get to the roads. I've been here nine months, crossed a lot of stuff on the board this last year. And that was when we were still trying to put a team in place and fix operational things on the back end. You give me time and momentum. I have a plan and these other councilmen have heard my plan for addressing the

street issue. So, forgive me when I feel a little frustrated because I feel like you're attacking what the good Lord has blessed me with and what I'm good at. Okay, mayor. So, with due respect, I'm not trying to go back and forth. And with respect, what I'm saying, we have had some sorry, we have had some good city managers with good intention. We have had some good council members here before us with good intention. And we have had a situation where we had to run into bankruptcy. We had to sell a land here. Mr. Bon can be able to help you with that information for us to pay to keep the lights on. So I'm not saying I'm against you. I'm against the plan. The thing I'm trying to bring to you is the voice of the people that are paying the taxes to this area. They know the police needs help. They knew we had fire issue with the vehicles and we had to explain to them and they were okay with it. But this plan no matter how you are explaining to them, they don't like it. They are saying there are options. We have leased before and we stopped listing. There was a reason why. Keen, we haven't reached a point where we are bringing constant income where the water and seaw and the businesses can be able to leverage each other.

Why do you think that? Where are you getting your why do you think that?

Yeah, I'm I know why, but it's beyond it's it's beyond my control. It's not one something that I can fix just one person. So I'm saying that the issue that is going on, I'm bringing you a message from my boss. Some of us might might disagree and say they are not my boss, but I'm bringing you the information. This is not a priority. Can we vote for it and pass it? Yeah, you can do that. But I'm just telling you that there are some priorities out there. Once you lock yourself into this one, it will be hard to be able to fulfill those ones, the ones that the taxpayers wants you to focus on without raising their taxes.

Thank you.

I would argue against that because again with the growth that's coming, trust me, I have a plan. If you want to come meet with me, I will gladly in show you how this is going to work. But you say we've had good city city managers. We've had six in seven years. Not one of those city managers ever even had the opportunity to get their feet under them to actually create change. And Lord knows I've already been tried to be chased off a couple times. And the simple fact of it is all it's doing is making me dig my feet in because I'm here because I love this community. I'm here fixing problems. And I promise we will get to the street, but right now I have to fix the things that are the most immediately right in front of us. And the simple fact of it is I'm glad to say no to that, but then you tell me what 200 feet of road would you like me to fix of the 392 miles that are in our city limits. I've I've told you city managers, but I'm telling you that this is not a priority. That's what I'm telling. I'm not saying personally. I don't have the answers, but I do because that's what I'm paid to do.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. How many miles I know years ago when I was a young kid being stupid and I need renter cars I used to rent. If you get like 40,000 miles, they would take them and give you another one. But now, I don't know what they give you with the miles or do they do mouse now? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm just asking. I I was wondering about that. Miles is pretty much a moot point because with a city, you're not driving far enough for it to ever even get close to where it would, you know, and again, when they come back every six months and give us a report,

they they track all that. They give us, you know, hey, this is, you know, and so guess what? We can adjust and switch vehicles around to keep the miles down. I mean, their their job is to try to help us mitigate. Correct. I'm just wonder, you know, it's it's not like a regular lease. Yeah, I got you. Yeah, let's get the police to a new place, man. He's in the jail house back there. We're working on that. I promise. We're working on that, too. I promise. Council Smith,

I'd like to end with this. Um, listening to the conversation, I just want to highlight some of the good things. Um, so and and I'm actually kind of piggybacking off of positivity. Um, we do meet with Mr. sites and and my meetings especially are all about positivity and here's why. Um we talk about budgets and we talk about the good things that are happening in the budgets. Um and so I'm going to highlight some of those. So Holly, our city secretary, saved us some money on her budget this year. That's that's an anomaly. You don't find that, right? So, she was able to find a different system which costs a little bit more money, but it's going to streamline things, which is actually going to save money. I mean, who's doing that, right? Uh we've got um our uh public works department on one line item. There was like a $600,000 from last year or two years ago. This year it was less than half of that. they could have left it exactly the way it was, but the fact of the matter was is they purchased equipment uh in that year and so they weren't asking for the same amount of money. Um, another highlight um which which I'm I'm going to say this, which sounds kind of like a double negative, but the the highlight is is this this budget is worstcase scenario. And why would you do worst case scenario, right? because you're planning for the worst. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. That's a Jack Reacher quote, by the way. And so, um, Holly gets that one. So, there. So, in that, what do you do? Right. So, yes, that's why the insurance amount looks like it's outrageous. I know obviously it's not in front of all of you guys, but it's in front of us, right? And so,

that number looks pretty high. Um, it was still a cost savings when we discussed it and agreed on the plan, but with the amount of people that that the city manager would like to hire, the cost would go up a little bit more, which which creates that number. And we have a pretty efficient team. In fact, I just talked to our city manager today and I said, you know what? I said, "By the grace of God and the amount of effort that our that our team, our staff, our beloved staff put together for us. I I told the city manager, I said, "By next year, I want to see $800,000 in the positive because our staff has worked so hard to make the commitment to save us money over the course of the year to do the best that they can do. I'd like to highlight one more thing. Here we are. The the chief just spelled out perfectly the amount of wasted resources we are using to keep patrol cars on the streets. Just that statement alone poses a huge problem in the way that this city is operating. So when a guy like Jonathan, our beloved city manager, comes up with a solution to refine the way that our guys are operating out there in the field. I mean, what a gift to be able to get in and be able to turn the car on and know that it's going to work. I know it's a bummer when it happens to me. I can't imagine what what it is for them, especially when there's an emergency, especially when it's a life ordeath situation and especially when you want to get a, you know, when everybody wants to receive a ticket. You know, you want that. Yeah. I'm just kidding. You don't want that guy. But the the fact of the

matter is the highlights are worth the the $13 million budget that's in front of us. The highlights are worth giving morale the best chance possible for our city manager to be able to give the gift to be able to give everybody something to look forward to coming to work for. And with that, mayor, I'd like to ask that you ask the city secretary to read the caption.

Okay. Council, in your packet is ordinance number 2025-688 of the city of Keen approving and adopting a budget for the city for fiscal year 2025 2026. At this time, I'm going to have the city secretary read the caption of the ordinance. Ordinance number 2025-688, an ordinance of the city council of the city of Keen, Texas, approving and adopting a budget for the operating the municipal government of the city of Keen for the fiscal year beginning October 1st, 2025 and ending on September 30th, 2026, providing that expenditures for said fiscal year shall be made in accordance with the said budget, appropriating money for the various funds and purposes of such budget, including appropriations for money to pay interest and principles, syncing fund requirements on all indebtedness, providing for the filing of the budget as required by law, providing a savings and sever severability clause, and providing an effective date.

All right, I'm going to call for a motion. So, I'm going to need a motion in a second, and then I've got to take a record vote at that time. I move that. Oh, I'm sorry. Hold on. Do I have a motion to approve ordinance number 2025-688 approving and adopting a budget for the city of Keen for the fiscal year beginning October 1st, 2025 and ending September 30th, 2026 and appropriating money for the various funds and purposes of such budget including appropriations of money to pay interest and syncing fund requirements on all indebtedness. Do I need to read all of that for you? No, just you I just called for a motion. So then you say I make that motion. motion that we approve this second.

All right, we have a motion on the floor by Shaw and a second by I'm sorry. Yeah, by Smith. Okay, at this time I'm going to go down the line according to the way it's written on my paper and ask you if you are voting yes or no. And you're going to read this particular line that's written in here. You're going to say, "I vote for budget ordinance number 2025-688." Or you're going to state, "I vote against budget ordinance number 2025-688." So the first person is Bob Chapman. Okay, we have a yes for Bob Chapman. Charles Easley,

I vote for budget ordinance number 2025-688. All right, I'm recording a yes for Charles Easley. Rob Foster, I vote for budget ordinance number 2025-688. I'm recording a yes for Rob Foster. Thomas Goober. And before I say my verbiage on this ordinance, there's a maybe I might be wrong, but page 59.

Which 59? Page 59. I think we don't have Councilman Ro Foster on this list. That's section section seven item A page 59 and we can get that added before mayor signs. Okay. So with with that adjustment I'd like to vote against the budget ordinance number 2025-688. All right. All right, we have a vote no for Thomas Gwa. Johnny Shaw,

I vote yes or I vote for budget 2025-688. Okay, we have a yes for Johnny Shaw. Troy Smith, I vote for budget ordinance number 2025-688.

And we have a yes voted for Troy Smith. 54, one against. Motion is carried. All right. Since this budget will raise more total property tax revenue than the budget for the previous fiscal year, the council must take a separate ratification vote on the budget ordinance. The ratification vote must be a record vote. So, you're going to need to please state audibly, I ratify my vote for ordinance number 2025-688, approving the budget for fiscal year 2025 2026. or you'll need to state I ratify my vote against ordinance number 2025-688 approving the budget for fiscal year 2025-2026. So I'm going to go through the same line that we just did. Bob Chapman,

we have a yes for Bob Chapman. Charles Easley. I ratify my vote for ordinance number 2025-688. Approving the budget for the fiscal year 2025 2026. We have a yes for Charles Easley. Rob Foster. I ratify my vote for ordinance number 2025688. Approving the budget for fiscal year 2025 2026. We have a yes for Rob Foster. Thomas Gwa. On the same note, I think the next resolution you you need to add also Rafosa. Okay. Uh I ratify my vote against ordinance number 2025-688. Approving the budget.

Go ahead. Approving the budget for the fiscal year 2025-2026. That's a no for Thomas Gwa. Johnny Shaw. I ratify my vote for ordinance 202526 approving the budget for 20 2025 2026. Yes. That's a yes for Johnny Shaw and Troy Smith. I ratify my vote for ordinance number 2025 668 approving the budget for fiscal year 2025 2026.

That's a yes for Troy Smith. 541 against. Motion is carried. Agenda item number 7B. discuss and take action on a resolution ratifying the property tax increase reflected in the fiscal year 2025 2026 annual budget and acknowledging that the fiscal year 26 budget will require raising more revenue from property taxes than in previous fiscal years as required by the Texas Local Government Code 102.07C. All right, so I'm going to go ahead and read continue on. Texas Local Government Code section 102.07C O7C provides an adoption of a budget that will require raising more revenue from property taxes than in the previous year requires a separate vote of the governing body to ratify the property tax increase reflected in the budget. A vote under this subsection is in addition to and separate from the vote to adopt the budget or a vote to set the tax rate required by chapter 26 tax code or other law. So at this time the city secretary is going to read the caption of the resolution. Resolution number 2025-749.

Excuse me. Where can that be found so I can read along?

Is that page 66? Yeah, should be the almost. Okay. Thank you. And is there can I'm sorry. Is there no discussion on this? Did you open that up for discussion by chance? Would you like this is a vote that is required by the state after you have voted? I know, but it says discuss and take action. So, I didn't know if anybody she didn't ask if anybody wanted to discuss. So, that's why I was asking. But page 61 of your packet will be the resolution. Thank you.

Go ahead. Okay. A resolution of the city of Keen, Texas, ratifying the property tax increase reflected in the fiscal year 2025 2026 annual budget and acknowledging that the budget will require raising more revenue from property taxes than in the previous fiscal year and providing an effective date. Do you have anything you want to discuss, Mr. Smith, before I call for a motion? No, I was just making sure that we all had the liberty to discuss if possible.

All right. Do I have a motion to approve resolution number 2025-479 ratifying the property tax increase reflected in the fiscal year 2025 2026 annual budget and acknowledging that the budget will require raising more revenue from property taxes than in the previous fiscal year. I need a motion and a second. So move. Do I have a second? Second.

Is that Chapman? We have a motion by Foster and a second by Chapman. At this time, I need to call for a record vote. Each council member must state clearly when called upon, and you're going to either have one of these two phrases that you're going to state. I vote for resolution number 2025-479 ratifying the property tax increase reflected in the fiscal year 2025 2026 annual budget and acknowledging that the fiscal year 26 budget will require raising more revenue from property taxes than in previous fiscal years. or you're going to read, I wrote a I vote against resolution number 2025-479 ratifying the property tax increase reflected in the fiscal year 2025 2026 annual budget and acknowledging that the fiscal year 26 budget will require raising more revenue from property taxes than in previous fiscal years. This time I'm going to call for a record vote. I'm going to go in order as I did previous. Bob Chapman.

I vote for resolution number 2025-479 ratifying the property tax increase reflected in the fiscal year 2025 2026 annual budget and acknowledging that the uh fiscal year 26 budget will require raising more revenue from property taxes than is the previous fiscal years. We have a yes for Bob Chapman. Charles Easley. I vote for resolution number 2025-479 ratifying property tax increase reflected in the fiscal year 2025 2026 annual budget and acknowledge that the FY26 budget will require raising more revenue from property taxes but not necessarily tax rate than from previous years.

We have a yes for Charles Easley Rob Foster. I vote for resolution number 2025479 ratifying the property tax increase reflected in the fiscal year 2025 2026 annual budget and acknowledging that the fiscal year budget will require raising more revenue from property taxes than in previous fiscal years. Have a yes for Rob Foster Thomas Gwa.

Yes, mayor and council. Also page 62 u the city secretary might want to add councilman Rob Foster to that list. And once that is is said, I can say I vote against resolution number 2025-479 ratifying the property tax increase reflected in the physical year 2025-2026. That's fiscal year 20 2026 annual budget and acknowledging that the fiscal year 2026 budget will require raising more revenue from property taxes than in the previous fiscal year. That's a no for Thomas Gutwell Johnny Shaw.

I vote excuse me I vote for resolution number 2025-479 ratifying the property tax increase reflected in the fiscal year 2025 2026 annual budget and acknowledge that the fiscal year 26 budget will require raising more revenue from property taxes than previous year. That's a yes for Johnny Shaw and Troy Smith.

Sorry, I have to make a statement real quick. Um I'm I'm sorry, trying to wrap my brain around this. I we just heard a no vote from the same guy who actually proposed that this tax rate be what it is. So it's just really preposterous to me that he would no vote to get more money for the same for for a lesser value. So it just that just blows my mind. So thank you Thomas for making that very clear. I vote for resolution number 2025479 ratifying the property tax increase reflected in the fiscal year 2025 2026 uh annual budget and acknowledging that the fiscal year 26 budget will require raising more revenue for property taxes than in previous fiscal years.

That's a yes for Troy Smith. And Mr. Smith. This is not a time to make a personal attack when we're going through a record vote. That is 54. One against. Motion is carried. All right. Moving on to agenda item 7 C. Review, discuss, and consider a resolution naming nominees for the Johnson County Appraisal District's Board of Directors for the term of 2026-2029. Mayor, can we go back to public comments?

No, sir. We're going to continue on at this 7C. All right. The city of Keen has been requested by the Johnson County Central Appraisal District to nominate up to five individuals for the board of directors for the term of 2026-2029. Nominations may must be made by resolution and submitted to JCAD no later than October 15. A ballot will be created by JCAD and provided before October 30th for the council's consideration. The council's vote will then need to be made by resolution and submitted on or before December 15, 2024. The city of Keen has 16 votes that it may cast for one or more candidates of the ballot. So, we're here tonight to discuss some nominees that we would like to nominate. And I believe we have some individuals that would like to speak. Mr. Henley, you'll step forward.

We're back again. Uh, two of our members, their terms are coming to an end. Miss Amy Lingo and Mr. Peter Spenson, who's our chairman of the board. And so, of course, the nominations have to go out again. Uh, Amy Lingo is stepping down. She wants to be the new tax liaison officer for for the central appraisal district. And we think that's it. And what she'll do is represent you. She'll be the in between you and the ARB board. She'll do an excellent job of that. Yeah. Yeah. And uh Peter Spencson is running again. Okay.

And uh he is our chairman and they've done a lot of good. Of course, we've had problems, a little bit of problems on our board like everybody else has. But it's it's it's going getting better. But I would like for y'all to renominate Mr. Peter Spencson and our we have a gentleman Jason Marbbit that ran a few months ago. He's been out of town. Okay. And we'd like to have him nominated if possible. Okay. All right. Thank you. And Mr. Peter Spinson is here tonight. All right. Peter, would you Mr. Spencson, would you like to speak for just a minute?

Thank you, Mrs. Mayor and Councilman. Um, I didn't think I was going to be in this position, but uh, evidently I am. But I want to report to you on my stewardship. Number one is we are looking for a new chief appraiser. Uh, we have the TLO resigned, and I'm not going to go into that, but it was a good thing. Uh, we have an audit going on right now. So, we're going through the whole office. Everybody has a chance to be interviewed and ask their concerns and problems and we should have that report. And we're also interviewing new chief appraisers. But let me tell you the good news. A year ago, we lowered the budget from 1.25 million by $500,000 which came back to your entity and others. Okay? And this year we've even lowered it more. It's under $600,000. So, we are not wasteful. We look at the money that belongs to you and the citizens of Johnson County. Another commitment that I have had is to make sure that everything is done fairly. I'm not for one or the other. I am for what is true and best for all of Johnson County. Now, I will alert your city manager and you to you may have already included it in your budget, but there will be every person that you have with the homestead will get $140,000 off plus another 60. And I'm sure, but I just wanted to remind you of Now, I didn't do that. The state of Texas did, but it is part of the alignment of what you have to budget with. But I think I see a lot of young people in in your city, so I don't think you have as many elderly.

And I've enjoyed this time because I want to make things better. I'm proud of the board that I serve with. One gentleman, Larry Traml, he ran a corporation of 23,000 employees and he brings something to this board that is unique. Another person on the board, Tina White, amazing woman. She was the city manager of San Diego, California. And your very own Amy Lingo, who's going to step down, but has helped us with the budget, was, you know, the bank president here at Pinnacle Bank. Brandon Pototts, who ran last year, I'm proud to say he is a broker, a realtor, but he is a financial whiz and was part of our budget committee. and he goes out and speaks publicly to other people around the United States. He's well desired. So, I won't mention everyone, but I'm proud of the board that I serve with because we choose to do the right things and we will continue to do that and win your trust. And I would appreciate it if you'd still consider putting in a nomination. I was just put in last I think was it January, February?

Yeah, not too long ago. But um think about it and uh I hope I can win your vote again because I would like to continue the job that we've started and I want you to know we are making tremendous progress in the right direction. Do you have any questions? Any questions? I was uh obviously we get these packets prior to um but I didn't see all of the nominees. So, do we have a list of all the nominees that were No, I think tonight what we're just doing is making the nomination. I don't know that we need to do this record.

Mr. Marbet is the only other person and sis Miss Lingo has chosen a different direction. That's what I know of. Does this not go out to just all the different entities and they're nominating people, but we're not giving our 16 votes away tonight? Yeah. That comes back to us again, right? Yes.

Yeah. Because I'm reading the letter here and and so we're Yeah. We're just going to pick some names, put them on there, then a list is going to come back to us at the end of October 30th. And then we have until December 15, and that's when we're going to give away the 16 votes and decide. And they'll give us the whole list then of all the people that got nominated from all the different entities. We may all and they'll give us a list. That's when we'll get the list. We don't have a list yet. Okay. So, these are nom these are we are actually nominating somebody. Yeah. Right now, we're nominating for the Yeah.

So, uh I've been a citizen of Johnson County for 50 years, living in Cleveland 50 years. Uh I do a lot of charity work to help my community. And to me, this is not a task. This is a calling to do and to help the people. Any other questions? Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. So, Holly, did you go over this with the attorney? We don't need a record vote tonight, right? Is this just not by majority?

Well, the resolution that we have to name our nominations on does require the who voted for the resolution, who voted against the resolution of nominees. So, but you can ask who is for. They can raise their hands. You don't have to. Okay. But I don't have to go down the line like I did for the budget. Okay. All right. Council, we have two um nominations that have been recommended to us. Peter Spinson, who is here, and Jason Marbut. So, what I need is a motion to approve this resolution nominating one or both of those gentlemen. I move that we approve these gentlemen. Okay. Both of them. Both of them. Yes. Okay. Second. What's the other name that you mentioned?

Okay. We have a motion on the floor to approve resolution number 2025-479 nominating Peters Spinson and Jason Marbett to the Johnson County Appraisal District Board of Directors by Shaw and a second by Foster. All in favor raise your hand. It's unanimous. Motion is carried. Thank you. [Applause] All right, we do not have an executive session tonight, so we can omit eight and nine and move on to agenda item number 10, request for future agenda items. Um, note that we do have a council meeting scheduled for next Thursday, September 25 at 6 PM to vote on the tax rate. Right now, that is the only item that we're planning on having for that meeting, so we can keep it short. Anything else council that we need coming up? That would probably be for a meeting in October.

Okay. Yes, sir. Mayor, Mr. Go ahead. Um, we've we've had weekly meetings now for a month. Um, and our plan is, you know, with the budget approved, we we want to get things going. So, um, respectfully, I'd like to request that maybe we either not have a meeting or move it to the sec that October 16th timeline just to give us more time so that we can actually have what I would consider more of a productive meeting unless there's just a bunch of things that um need to be discussed, but I feel like we've had a lot of discussions for

Okay. So, you would like to cancel the is it October 2nd? Would that be the next? you'd like to cancel the October 2nd meeting and push the the next meeting in October to October 16. Yeah. Either October 16th or the first Okay. Thursday of November, whatever council feels. But we we haven't even really had time to really kind of consider we we've accomplished a lot in my mind the last four weeks and and I don't see I mean again this is obviously up to you, but I don't see having a meeting just to have a meeting because we're right now we're just so focused on

then what I would suggest is we do have a meeting next Thursday. We made that an additional agenda item to cancel the meeting on October 2nd and we do it next Thursday on September 25 to make it official. It needs to be on an agenda so we can take a vote then we can cancel it and then postpone it. Thank you. Okay. Is the um in light of that and I'm just asking a question. So October 16th is the first day of early elections. Is that going to interfere? I know it's going to be in the other room but for an hour there will be people over there and and us over here. is that that's why it'll be good to discuss. We may just say let's, you know, let's give us a month to get feet on the ground so we can, you know, really put together a productive meeting. Okay?

You know, so, you know, maybe you guys will come to me with a bunch of things that I'm I'm not aware that you're wanting to to discuss, but we've just so been highly focused on, you know, what what you know, moving into the next year or so. Okay. Okay. Mayor. Yes. I did request for an an item last. Do you have it on schedule about the street lights? In the last meeting, I did request for an an item for street lights. Yes, we've been holding those items for one to research and then for the next regular meeting which would be in October.

Okay. And just to be clear, the so the the streets we have Lewis Lane and Lynen Street. That's L I N D E N Street. We have FM 3048 which is called also CC Cooks Parkway and Northel Terrace. We have FM 3048 that's also known as CC Cooks Parkway and Dorothy Drive. We have FM 3048,

that's also known as CCS Parkway and 805B. And then we have 8 o uh 805B and Dorothy Drive. We have 805B and he lane. There is a light there. There's a street light there, but um intersection light, but the residents were asking if it can be upgraded to LED light or something like that. And we have 805B and North Eel Terrace. There's also a light there, but I've been requested to bring before the council that they might want it to be looked into or upgrade to LED. Thank you. And I've also had um citizens reach out to me about Valverie Circle. They wanted street lamps around Valverie. A lot of people do a lot of walking in that area and it's also very dark. Doesn't have any lights and there's a lot of dogs. All right, council. Anything else? Mr. Foster,

I see there's an an item here about widening uh Old Betsy between College and 805B. That was brought up by Mr. Easley. Yes. No. Why don't we while we're at it asking to put a turn lane down at Old Betsy and 67 where that first four-way stop is be real handy to just have a right turn lane to get on the uh entrance ramp to business 67. Okay, we're good. Okay. Anything else, council? Okay. So, the next meeting is September 25 and we're going to just have two agenda items. The tax vote on the tax rate and cancelling the October 2nd meeting. a discussion on that. All right, it's 7:51 p.m. Meeting is adjourned.