City Council - Regular Meeting

We ready? All right. We'll call this work session to order on February 28th, 2026. Roll call, please. Mayor Turney, here. April Rand here. Jane Rididgeway here. Alex G Equidel here. Dr. Pam Sardo here. Gary Chapel here. All right. I'm g before we get started, I'm gonna s I just want to say just make sure we stay on topic. Um don't steer off. If we do, I'm going to I'm going to intervene so we can be as efficient as possible um getting through this work session. So, thank you. Turn it over to you.

Uh thank you for joining us on a Saturday. As we get started, I wanted to outline what we'll be covering today and what we hope to accomplish. So, we'll start with a guest speaker and discussion about possibly developing a legislative session. As we move into department discussions, uh please know that each department has completed a survey prior to this meeting to help identify needs for the remainder of this year and taking an early look at priorities for the next fiscal year. In some cases, it's simply an update uh for their department. Uh we've also developed a survey for council and following this meeting after you hear our presentations. We're going to be sending that out. So where we have some questions in here and and we want your feedback. If we run short on time, we're going to send that out to you and you can return it to us and then at the next meeting um we'll be able to align your priorities and and our needs and see we'll probably make a little additional progress. So your feedback is important to us. Um, just a reminder that as we talk about budget items, the city budget you ultimately adopt and the tax rate that supports that budget, it's a policy document as much as it's a financial plan. Uh, whatever the city chooses to fund illustrates our priorities and sets the tone for the fiscal year. U, we want to make help you make informed choices as we move through the budget season. So, we're going to be throwing a lot of information your way. We don't expect you to um swallow all of it today. Like I said, we'll be sending out a survey and and we're going to get some feedback from you. All right. Um Mir, are you are you want to say anything else?

No. When we get to those topics, I'm going to speak on them and go ahead and David come up and speak. Okay. It's easy to focus on local issues here in Josephine, but we also need to stay aware of the broader factors that will influence where our city is headed. So, at this time, I'd like to introduce our guest speaker, David Billings. Uh he is the recently retired mayor of fate. Um Mr. Billings has spent significant time working on coalition efforts related to mud reform and other matters focused on preserving and strengthening local government authority. He spends considerable time in Austin meeting with legislators and helping them understand how proposed legislation will impact our cities and local communities. David,

thank you so much. I appreciate your time and efforts today uh and the time you're going to give us. So just a quick background, I spent 11 years in the Navy in the submarine force. So yes, I spent 100 days underwater. Uh probably explained a lot. 32 years at AT&T running one of their internet bit businesses and I spent 17 years in local government. Recently the mayor Fay when I decided to adhere to my granddaughter's advice and I stepped down for a while and spend time with my family. So that was really important to me. But one thing I did learn on the way out the door was um it is important that we understand what advocacy really is. And we understand that with all the politics, you can make change in Austin or locally when the people think you care. When you go to Austin, you want to make sure they understand that you care about the city and about the issue they have. Right? So, we're going to talk a little bit about how it's structured in Austin and a little bit what I'm proposing, what we're proposing to do going forward and and seek your feedback on that. Okay? So right now Austin page three and what I'm not going to do is read every slide to you but if you think about Austin they have a lot of advocacy groups TPPF they got Texas for fifth responsibility American for prosperity Texas uh chapter on the pro housing side they got Texas 2036 they have Texas for housing you have Texas for Regional Solutions U and many other organizations that advocate on behalf of their clients and not on not on not of behalf of the cities. Right? So if you think about last session um between $400 million was spent in Austin advocating at times against interests of the cities of Texas. So we want to make sure that we get what what do they do is they do primary and secondary re research. They hold public forums with state reps. They provide legal support

to sue cities. Right now, city of Dallas is going through that. They develop data models for the state and what they do, what they really do is draft bills, help introduce them and provide the analysis and the support for those bills so they can introduce get the committee a committee hearing onto the floor. So that's important that we understand that's a basic premise that we have to basically agree on. So what's our challenge, right? Local government challenge is this. We we don't do that. Our job is provide roads, water, police, fire, sewer, right? Provide local services, animal control, code enforcement things that we do. Cities and Texas are not designed to do legislation analysis for Austin. I respond to every bill. Last session over 9,000 bills were introduced. this session 90th session will be about probably over 10 probably 3,000 of bills will be at aimed at the cities of some form or fashion. Okay. So what what do big cities do? Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, um Fort Worth all have staffs to do that for them. They spent a long time in Austin at time there, you know, they're lobbyists registering the state or they work with the state reps to trying to influence the bill. not to change or maybe change the bill but trying to influence the bill. Midsize cities need normally has hired a lobbyist out of Austin and that's another debate one day. Small cities really have no chance. They they just don't have the staff or the people or the time and effort to go down Austin as much as I did. Right? So I spent five sessions in Austin trying to apply bills and I learned a lot of lessons what to do differently which we'll talk about. Right? So it's important we understand the role of the of the lobbyist, the advocacy groups and the umbrella of local government. All right. One thing I did learn is

saying no to everything is not a good strategy. City of Georgetown, I met with them uh two weeks ago after TML and they talked a lot about the impact of local official going down Austin just saying no is waning. Sabres are getting tired of it. Uh we've had I've witnessed local officials. I won't name them but who threaten state reps. I want to get you unelected. That doesn't work very well, right? You honestly think about it like you don't like to be yelled at either or threaten and neither did I. So we have to find a way to work together. But we lack the resources to do that, right? It's nobody's fault this is happening. It's just the way it's structured. The counties have very little power. And that's one of the thing we're about to see in the next four weeks is when the power of the counties are now decided by uh the uh attorney general Paxton is going to have to weigh in on the counties. What power do they really have? And that's why you're talking about mud reform is really important. Okay. So what what is the response? So Northwest Commission is a 501c6. This is important we understand this. I'll talk more about it. What they do, they partner with North Texas's business large or small and the cities in North Texas, the former advocacy group in DC and in Austin. They are strongly successful doing that. But what they have done last month and they have spun off groups. They spun off the Texas business education for public education. They have a a municipal business alliance for 75 mayors for property tax and they have a metroplex mayor associated and 32 mayors from the metroplex. The idea of a regional C6 is spreading quickly. West Texas, Austin, San Antonio, and Big Ben are now going to have them. So now you got the players in Austin, got business owners now, large businesses come in and

say, "Hey, by the way, for me to be successful, I need local decision-m we don't need at times statewide preeemption laws to tell local government what what to do." So what do we do as local government? Right? That's kind of like what we're going to talk about a little bit. So we believe that Nortech would would benefit from a proudly funded nonpartisan ashy group focus on the impacts of a local government. We're not going to sit there and say no to them. What we are going to do is try to form the partnerships with them so they understand the impact of cost caps on local government on budgets road public safety water sewer right they don't I'm convinced that with so many bills 140 days if you understand Austin they have about 65 days to work on bills by the constitution so they hurry through these they don't understand the impact on the cities some state reps reach out some do not it just depends on your district and city. And it's it's very important that they understand that. I also I've learned the hard way. I was a no guy down there for a long time. If you if you propose a solution to them, they will listen to you. What I learned to do is redline bills, right? Take the bill, do the changes, and submit the bill. They appreciate that because one, it's less staff for them, more work for me. But in the day, they like doing that. So we're convinced that on the ground real world insights to what happens locally is important to them, right? If they understand that, we might have a chance to influence their decision policies or the chance to maybe not do as drastic thing as being proposed. So that's what we're trying to get done, right? It's kind of interesting

to do this. We're gonna we're gonna invite all the stakeholders to the table. Everybody, advocacy groups, developers, land owners, cities, whoever, if you want to participate, we'll talk about in a minute. If you want to participate, no public money will will be asked of you or used. Okay? Okay. And it's really important we understand that we do believe finding common ground with like for example TPPF will help us get bills passed. I know this is I introduced a bill 88 session. It got in committee died. It was picked up by TPPF and last year last session it was passed the same bill right the difference is me down there by myself versus TPPF the power that they have and more likely the relationships they have with the governor the the lieutenant governor instead Ben core or chairman uh Gates right they're very important players in this so uh very important that we find those stakeholders and we come in together we are going to require a city council approved legislation agenda All right. I'm not here to get in a fight with you guys. Right. If we agree, great. If you disagree with this, great. You going to do your own thing in Austin? Great. I have no problem doing that. That we're here to offer you a chance to work together and find some common ground. So, we go to the forsight reps, Senator Hall, resident Pearson, Senator Paxton, and Rev. Nobles on a common ground in this area. Right. Metroplex is well taken care of. Right. the big cities and metrop what was not taken care of is rural Texas and Rockwell County. So just kind of think about on how are we going to do that. All right. So after a bunch of debate we create two objectives just two. One is we're a small

organization. Two we have no money yet. Three is it's easier to focus on two objectives than 20. So, I love sports, okay? I'm a big sports fan. So, in the day, we're going to play offense on one, objective objective one, and defense on objective two. Okay? When we play offense, we're going to create, we're going to propose one big, beautiful mud enhancement bill. Why use word enhancements? Reform freaks people out. I don't know why. It just I'm going to reform the process. They all freak out. So we're going to say we want to enhance the process. There is underlying assumption here is that muds are here to stay. They are an economic development tool in rural Texas, the panhandle, South Texas. They bring economic value for for everybody. I know some counties much my own want to go down there and say no muds die on the hill. Ladies and gentlemen, they will die on the hill. They won't get a lot of attention down there, but the state is beyond the point. Everybody's just saying no to them. If you ever testify local government committee in Ben Court, he has one warning. Do not whine or I'll cut you off. Got a problem? Give me your solution. By the way, he does cut you off by the way. So, in Austin did, they had no problem doing that. So, we proposing one bill and then we have two son bills. One is TCQ, right? We all can figure TCQ needs some reform. We want a comprehensive infrastructure review when a mud is per performed water, sewer and roads. Okay. We also know a mud in ETJ or a budding a city is not the best solution possible. So we're at and the city of Josephine has done some great work on this by the way. So so thank you for doing that kind of work is getting the mud districts and

ETJ and the county to pay their fair share. Right. It is not fair to the to the taxpayers of a city to have your great chief over there or your fire department respond to call any ETJ or the county which they'll do a great job of but your taxpayers are are bearing that burden not the mud districts. So we want a statutory authority for cities to create a private agreement where NASA's mandated for the opportunity to hit the but come to the city and say hey we need animal control we need code enforcement we need EMS or we maybe we just need the fire department that's you do a contract we pretend that you and the city either my proposal is to recover your cost plus the cost of long-term cap capital. So you can get like a new police car if you have to, right? Or new equipment if you have to do that, right? So we like that in the statuto authority. My biggest pet peeve be a child safe safety zones. And you probably know by now that in the counties they don't have the right to establish a child safety zone nor a mud district. So to play that out, you know, you have a child sexual predator living in a mud next to a park and something really bad happens. God forbid. Um that's not good for anybody. So we're trying to really push the count the state to authorize the county to establish zone up to 2,000 feet up to it's up to the county. It's not mandatory. Fates is 2,000. Rockwell County is mainly 2,000. It just depends on the how big your the city you have. Next one is the most fun one actually. Mud director property ownership requirement. The mud director has to own the property. We want them to have a water account or some kind of proof of that. What we're tired of and frustrated with is a

trailer on a piece of land, back of a pickup truck, a ballot box, one vote. Rockwell County, one vote authorize 6.6 billion dollars of future debt. And that's a lot of debt, right? at a dollar per 100 which is three times almost four times the county tax rate and the city's tax rate. Okay. So instead of delers walking in and say just put a trailer out there and some person kind of lives there, we want them to live there or at least have ownership of our CADs or their cats to make sure that they they own the property. The last one I think is a really great idea and a great idea was not mine by the way. um make a mud in a county ha have a municipal court. Now you all know the debate here, right? Sharia law epic, right? We believe if there's a statuto requirement that a district has to contract for courts or sets their own courts, it would not eliminate the need but kind of head it off. Right now they have to abide by Texas state law. JPS would have to be expand their areas and then the county court and the district courts I think is covered now to get to cover the county today. So that's your most unique one. It's going to get a lot of play I think in discussion because it's trying to address a problem which right now is top of mind I think for everybody in Texas by the way these days. So all right the standills we want the mudboards to be trained. You have to go through training. I had to go through training. Staff has to go through training, right? Everybody has to be trained. But also understand the mudboards are not trained. So as you transition from a builder board to assistant lead board, it's important they understand their duties and what they're doing and what they cannot do. This one, last one is it's going to be hard to do.

Much of the complaints are from about special districts oversight. They don't have a way of doing it. So we're going to propose a department. Some I don't know how you do this. It's going to be really hard, but we're going to propose something kind of apartment that is like the clearing house for special districts, mud districts, hospital districts, sports districts, and all that, right? Where people can go and get questions answered, trainings done. Maybe make sure the law is followed versus having the water code, TCQ, whatever code there is out there, right? It's hard to follow. Most people don't understand it. And I think that's be a really good idea. All right. The second one is defense. So this is my summary of all the proposals I have seen. Might change tomorrow, but it's Governor Abbott, Lieutenant Governor Patrick's stuff. And then I think what Speaker Bur is going to come out with, right? Some of these. Okay, one thing I think we don't understand is who's going to vote against reducing property taxes, right? It's not going to happen, right? It's going to be, you know, 1491 or 145 to five in the state, right? 31 to zero in the Senate. It's going to pass. Nobody's going to vote against it, right? Well, in Rockwell County, I did a bunch of analysis on the impact of these on the cities. And we did learn in the city of Fay that if you don't exclude public safety funding, the city will have to cut $800,000 on a cost cap reduction. City Fay doesn't have $800,000 to cut unless you cut police officers, fire departments, code enforcement, parks, whatever you have. We don't have $800,000 just laying around there. Okay? So, we want to educate. So, if you repraise a home every once every five years, think about the impact in five years. So, if your home is worth 200,000 today, 5 years now, worth 300,000,

that probably bill the property tax is going to be huge, right? We all can agree and gonna be sticker shock and guess who's going to eat yelled at, right? You guys, how dare you do this to me, right? Wasn't you. So, what's a counter proposal? So, talk to Senator Hall's uh staff. We say maybe two years or every three years. So, that's what kind of how we're thinking kind of it's going to pass. We believe we can say no if you want, but we ought to have a kind of proposal. I know when the two twoth3 supermajority vote for any city tax rate increases. Great. I understand that. Until you have a bond, right? Then what happens, right? You got a bond authorized by the, you know, the voters like fate did. 63% of people voted yes. And then on this law, they could turn down the tax rate. Then what do you do? You pay interest, right? Um the other one is citizen district brought back elections 15% and suddenly said I want to cut 5 cents from the tax rate right in faith that would be almost a million dollars right not a good idea right now you don't have roads right or you have levels of service that decrease you for your per once in a while the pothole does not get filled right so what we really want to do is educate the state reps on what the impacts are. Um, all the information I use is public information. Some budget books are really good and some are really bad. I learned in Rockwell County, by the way. I've read them and they're hard to digest at times. But we're not asking to do anything. Maybe a question or two about your budget or if you want to participate, great. But we're not asking a lot of of the city staff's time just within the public domain. Okay. So what what are we doing now? So we have a core team of people in Rockwell County that have met for a while,

created all these objectives. We've had some really good guidance from um very smart consultants, right, who helped us narrow focus down to two objectives, uh trying to figure out what to do next and what we can actually accomplish in Austin. Here's what I do know. Mud reform or mud enhancement is a two to three year I'm sorry two to threeyear session process in the 88 session one mud bill was introduced made it to house Lauren died 89 session 12 mud bills were introduced and only one got through that's Kenny noble's bill that got through on the epic issue right 11 died in um the land and resources committee so if you take the rule take a couple sessions This session may be interesting because senator Ben cord the governor and lieutenant governor Patrick has said they want to talk about this special districts that's on top of mind. So question is do we have a unique opportunity to change things maybe in one session time that we have a chance or a chance to change things. All right first thing we did is we got to figure out what we want to be. met with uh Nortz Commission senior uh executive director. He recommend we also form a 501c6 the Rockwell Chamber. Why is that interesting? One is we'll get some admin support for a fee which is nice. We'll get access to some lobbyist. And by the way, we will hire a a lobbyist in Austin, right? We're going to find a small firm and we're going to hire one. Because believe it or not, the work in Austin is not done in hearings. It's not done on the floor. It's done behind the scenes in the hallways. The ABS seekers we talked about have full-time staff in Austin every day. I see them. I talk to them. I have coffee with them. They work the halls really,

really well. They're good at it. They work the committee clerks really well. You want to know a secret? The committee clerk is the key to the committee by the way because your bill up here. Set bill up here, your bill down here, right? And when does it get heard? Get heard 2 o'clock in the morning, 3:00 in the morning, or 8:00 in the morning, right? That's really important. That's what a lobby brings to plus their deep relationships they have with the governor's office, Patrick's office, and with state reps. Okay. So, met with them. We're building board of directors. Um you're if you one of you want to participate, you're more than welcome. We love the cities to be on board. Uh we are we have met with text for housing. So we got Rockwell County days in Austin. I spent two days down there meeting with people. Uh we had text for housing willing to talk to us. Texas uh TPPF is willing to talk to us. Uh Texas for Breable Solutions is willing to talk to us. Texas 2036 the lobbyist I work with uh moved on. She went to the London School of Economics. Uh we're trying to reestablish that connection with them. If you don't know what Texas 2036 is, it's a data-driven organization that grows solutions or bills, right? Really good at it, by the way, and very successful. Okay, so we're we talked to Rep. Pearson, Senator Hall, and Senator Benort. They're on board. Okay. Interested. State Rep. Leech Little Spiller, and the Fort Worth mayor, Maddie Parker. Why Mattie Parker is so important? Because she has deep connection in Austin, too. And there's also the way they approach the state challenges on the way they they just approach it in a very common sense very thoughtful and thoughtful way right okay so until until we get what we want we haven't raised money yet okay and we're not trying to spend any money you want to get violation of campaign finance laws

if we we can't get a C6 form which your daughters are not disclosed and we got to figure out what to do Next, maybe a C4. I really don't want to pack. I just don't. But I'm going to figure what be next. Probably going to be a C for an NFC group, but I want to disclose the donors, right? And like I said before, I've been asked this question or you can take money from, right? Um, we're going to have to be very careful of the donors that they understand what the goals are, the mission of the organization, and they support it. J, you give us $20,000. mean we're going to do it your way, right? We got to find common solution, but we need funding to do that. We do believe some of the developers, some of the land owners um will cooperate with this because I don't think a devel I can't say all developers, but some developers want to build great things, right? Some do not, and I we all can name them, but I think we pick and choose carefully. Um, I think we can do really good things and you sustain the model and hire the the lobbyist office that we absolutely need. Right. All right. I think that's probably it. Yes. Questions? So, that's kind we're trying to do. Hope I explained it well to you, but yeah. Questions, comments,

questions, council. Um, are you using the um the the current attorneys um that are already in these organizations or are you trying to move forward with an independent attorney group? Good question. We are going to approach an attorney in North Texas. So, what I'm not as an attorney um we're going to try. All right. We're going to try to get I think your question about a lawyer, right? Legal help to draft bills. Yeah, we're we're going to try to find one that's not expensive.

Um our bills I dropped in the past were actually decently good because I just copy and paste from a regular bill. But um in the day, we're looking into that. Uh and we'll see who wants to participate for really low cost because we don't have a lot of money to pay them $100 an hour, $200 an hour. So they're going to have to do some work around that for us for free or the lobbyist can do it for us and that's our questions for the lobbyist we have to ask them. So you've already got um it sounds like a whole lot of goals. Two we have two goals. Yeah. Well you showed a lot of slides with goals. Yeah. So my question is if Rockall County has already agreed with this who in Hunt who in Hunt County and Colin County have agreed with this?

So we we haven't gone that far yet. So what this that's a good question the strate clarification we just have to really two goals right we have a set of we have a vision what we want to be right mission statement basis important but we focus on from we from like 20 goals to two right and I show last slide to give you some context but if I did did a slideshow on objectives would just be one page or two pages right the strategy was to start at home right in our own county and we get I'll be honest with you, we have mixed reviews, right? Um some mayors or some councils once say no meds, no meds, go down the hill. Fine, that's your right. We have mayors and counsel. Let's go do it. Now, we've done with all that, right? We got done with that last week. We have a meeting coming up next week with with a city in uh Rockwell County. Um, but now we want to expand to call in Hunt County. So that so that's definitely our our next step. So we just got hot home first and then we're going to expand out and beyond call in Hunt County. We got to think about it because we're small, right? We have we want a small area for the first session we're in. Uh we don't want to get too big or be too small. So we're trying to find that balance if that makes sense. So

So what is your role? Are you going to be a lobbyist or a chairman?

Nope. So that's been decided, right? So I'm the one that it's it's kind of a combination of several people that came up with this idea right of anc group. The reason we come up with this because TML is really fractured. If you think about TML TML's got the large cities, the mid cities and small cities. The large cities dominate CT and TML. There's just no doubt. Also, there's a belief that TML does great legal analysis on their bills. and everyone use up public information but also TML influence is waning. Okay. In Austin, um so I think I don't answer your question again. I'm sorry.

It's okay. Um for TCEQ authority reform, they're only accountable and responsible to Greg Abbott, the governor. Nobody else. Right. They're responsible to checklist. So if if if it ever puts a mud reform in or mud application in it makes a checklist it's approved. Yeah. Period. That's in it. We try to change the checklist that's been tried and did not work.

Uh so we thinking that we want TCQ to go back to their original purpose of water sewer and stuff like that and this other department are would actually approve the the mud applications. Right now the applications are almost automatic. They're close to being automatic. rarely to they turn them down, right? So, uh we think they need to be reformed, return, uh get rid of the creep, the scope creep they have right now and go back to the mission water, sewer, things like that. So, that that that's what we're trying to do. Oh, my role. Um back to that, we haven't decided yet, right? This I'm free my own money. I'm not going to get paid. Any any money we raise 100% sent to advocacy groups. Period. Any board member will not be paid. That's in the proposed bylaws. Won't be reversed for travel anything. This is just us doing this. Any money we raise has to go to the efforts we have in Austin. We are trying to avoid being registering as a lobbyist somewhat think about TPPF structure. They're C4. They're not rest as lobbyist. So they do the papers and they testify in a very clever way and now they don't have to be that. Right? So the border would be free. I'm free. I spent I don't know probably $15,000 of my own money in the last 10 years going to Austin. I didn't ask the city for anything. I just did it on my own. You question why I did that. That' be a good conversation. But um I think it needs to be uh people who want to make change and want to do it for free and not get paid for it. So that's what we're asking for.

Make sense? Yeah. Well, there are some grassroots groups that are trying to give the commissioner's court more power and authority like zoning authority and things like that.

Yeah. So I I agree with you. I think that will not happen. I think Grandma has been extraordinary clear on that. uh Sim Benor and the AG will bail on that in the next 3 weeks. But I think if I understand correctly, I think he's going to come back and say the Texas Constitution gives counties zero authority that that um counties have authority as well as you guys that expressly state in state law. Uh AG is also going to say if there's a gap in state law, it does not give you the authority to do that. Um, I see this is back why I talk about Austin, right? The power of the builder association Austin, the realtor association Austin, department association Austin, these pro housing outreach groups are are real. They get what they want. Cities have very little chance against them. I'm not saying we we can solve it that way. I'm not saying we're going to do, hey, we're going to solve all your problem. But I think we can make incremental change and educate the state reps on, hey, it does make sense and I agree that it does make sense for the county to get more power. I'm not against it. But Texas wasn't designed that way. Texas growing so fast. It's out growing a structure. ATJ should not exist anymore, right? They just there's no reason for them. Count a lot more power than they have today. Or we're going to have run a muck development right outside your right out down the street, right? So the city of B have 107 acres they open a mud again we don't be careful out there right SB 2038 same problem they give power to this you know say you can deanex yourself just by showing up in 50 things are two people right so I agree with the doctor but I think in the day let's see what Paxton says I think that's going to be in the next three or four weeks let's see what he says

and then go from there but right now there's no indication anybody's gonna vote for that including your Tuesday reps won't I don't think If they want to join us, help is great. I have I welcome them all. Any stakeholder, grass group, organization, anybody who wants to come and shares the objectives we have, um they're welcome to the table. So, what are you asking out of the city of Josephine and the council?

If you want to help, I mean, great. Um I can come back and give you updates. We can tell you what we're doing. We just needed, you know, you pass an agenda to give authorization to your city administrator to work with us. I will promise you as much we can not ask too many questions. Uh if you have all the data public, we can do all analysis off the public. You know, I we can give updates on bills. We'll propose it. I can give you the draft bill once you kind of have the agenda passed. That's it. Uh if you want to somebody from your council to be appointed to the a volunteer of the board, please do only one. Um we're trying to have a mix of people. So we're going to have a consultant that I found. We're going to have a PR person uh led to the officials. One thing we're a little bit worried about is Brett Pearson had some really good advice for us was grassroots movements do better in Austin if they're guided well, right? on how to do it versus a lot of elected officials getting together, right? So, Northwest Commission is elected official go to Austin and we'll work with them, too. But it's up to you guys. If you don't want to help, great. You do, great. Where we agree, like I said, get where we agree, great. Where we disagree, great. Do your own thing. I'm I'm fine with that. There's no hintage in this here. It just we have an idea and we think it it's worthwhile to take the big swing out of baseball ter. Well, I agree. As you stated, muds are not going anywhere.

Yeah, there's too much money. I'm with you. There's only only reason there's a discussion is because of Epic. Other than that, they they would keep their head in the sand and tell cities it's EP economic development, which we all know is not the reason that they support them. So, yeah,

buds are not going anywhere. If we can get some kind of reform. Yeah, I think enhancements are really good ideas. Uh they're practical ideas. So, uh not I don't think a lot of people are going to object to them, mayor, you know, in the day. But I I think that the reality like I'm very pragmatic. I live in reality. Um I spent my two years, but two says the same. No, I'm getting killed. Uh so I changed. But yeah, you're right. Um we're going to need some help from the cities to do the enhancements. Um and we'll see how it pans out in next uh when is this ever this summer when the interim hearings come out. Oh, by the way, I didn't tell you this. Senator Hall actually submitted an interim charge for us to look. So, we're hoping to get that right. It's going to be special districts charge we think. But we get one that's a great opportunity for be down there and talking to them because all the work is done in the interim session. All the work session issued the recommendation. and they turn the bills and once it gets in the bill process it's harder and hard for us to do that. So but so that's what we're asking just participate if you like. If you don't I'm okay with that too.

I support what you're doing. Okay. So um would you be able to share the presentation and also your draft bylaws and um my only question is if a city like this wanted to join you. What you just said is if you like what we're doing great. if you don't do your own thing, which means there you're not going to take any input to change anything.

No, that's not true. So, what I'm saying, let's say there's I'll give you example. Let's say you want to go down Austin and oppose any cost caps. Okay, great. We're not going to oppose the cost caps. We're going to adjust the cost cap, right? That's our proposal. But we don't want to get in debate with any city council, right? So, if you say, you know, if you want to have input on cost caps, great. I would welcome any input from anybody who wants to set the table with us and say here's my thoughts. I have no problem with that. Mud reform we can we can we can agree on and we get multiple cities agree on and then end the day we can sit down and say we want to do ABC and D. I'm not excluding anybody because that's the way Texas has been working in the past and has not worked well for the cities. So in other words, what you're saying is what I gather when you're speaking is is well known when you go to Austin and you say no, they don't even listen to you.

Yeah. They'll say thank you for coming. I mean this is what I was told one day. I spent a lot of sessions down there, right? And I've testified many times and you know they'll cut you off. Like elected official is just the public. Believe it or not, by the way, we get thorn in the mix. So unless you want to wait till 2 o'clock in the morning test flight, which I'm ded to do, you get a minute. Mhm. Two minutes. That's it. Yeah.

Right. And then the state reps have to sleep anyway. So are you. Right. You all know how it works. 8 to 10 is invited testimony. 10 attendant when six or seven is a session. They go back and have committee hearings until whenever. Right? It's not designed to committee hearing are designed to give input but not make change. What makes change to a bill is walking in the office and talking to the LDS, the chief of staff, getting their attention, writing a draft bill, right? The bylaws I cannot give to you yet because we don't we're not formed yet. So once we get a C6 forms, we'll be more happy to share the bylaws with you. Um but right now they're just sitting there until we get the structure straightened out. But I give the presentation and more if you like. That's just not a problem.

Yeah, C6 is easier to do. Hopefully that'll be fast for you. What's that? A C6 is easy to do.

No, I agree. But we got to get a chamber to degree with this. And I think the challenge will be honestly and like we rather take more questions is we want to work together. I'm just giving you if you guys decide you want to fight a battle differently than we do, that's great. I'm not telling you no to it. You want to join us on battle, great. Anytime you'll give us input. Let's say I say the cost cap for our 2%. And we fight. You may say no. Great. Tell me why. Help me understand why. Okay, we want that input. I know it sounds really weird like we're not we don't have an agenda. We're not getting paid. We're not lobbyists. We're just a small group of people who want to defend the cities better. And I don't think TML, not because they're bad people, it's just their structure is doesn't work well right now in the state of Texas. Thank you.

Any more questions? Yeah. Okay. The muds. It's important to us here. What were the other I but you were doing things other than the muds. Yeah. So what we started Rockwell County is so the way I started it was a series of articles. So, the Rock Wall Times has been

really gracious with me of giving me a chance to uh educate people in local government, right? And they're very strict on the rules, by the way. If I veer off an eye, I get feedback. That's not the mission, right? So, they're very good. So, we wrote on cost caps, right? And we want to I'm going to do a little more detailed analysis. Um, then we're going to sit with the two state reps or maybe four state reps. I mean, we'll talk to Senator Paxton and Rep. Nobles, but we're definitely going to sit with Rep. Pearson and say Senator Hall staff, which I have good relationships with, and we're going to walk them through the map. Then we'll give them a suggestion, right? So, let's say we can get them to exclude public safety from the cost caps, right? It's a good idea, by the way. You want to pay your police officers, you want to add police officers. We want all want public safety. We're all strong on the border and we're all strong on law and order, right? So, it's great. We can work on that but we need to show them the impact right right now they think oh look government just spends lots of money right that's the perception we want to change that perception so on all the probably tax stuff you that's what we're going to we're going to educate right and make some suggestions the mud bill is playing offense we're trying to get that bill introduced we are reserving the option for a third third objective right because when the interim charge on affordable housing shows up which is going too, right? We all the state does

and they want to do more statewide zoning or they want to do federalization of zoning by the way which is now in a house bill that passed the house. We we want the right to add one more charge you know one more objective to us and that's it. So, no more than three, right? We could do that as we go along, but uh enhancements and defense on property taxes relief because it's going to pass in some form. I don't think any state rep going to vote against it. I just don't. So, the question now, uh, you know, it's right now the goal is to if we can get a no done and completed, great. We get a we can get a bracketed out even better. Hey, apply this to cities above a million. Great. I'm sure Austin can find more money in their budgets. I know Josephine can. I know fake can. I know Heath cannot. I know Mut and Rockwell cannot. Greenville probably mean Nevada cannot. They're just too small cities, well-run cities, right? So you have very conservative councils. There's no money left just to randomly cut, right? So that's what that's kind of is what we're going to go do. That makes sense, right? So,

well, to me, looking at the mud issue, I mean, to me, that's TECQ. When they when they separated TCQ from the Texas Waterboard, they split them up. That's where it went wrong. Agreed. You know, and so it's like I'm just trying to figure out how all of that you're doing would work to fix that part. Yeah. So, because we could get we could get grant money and board, you know, from Texas Water Board. Yeah. You know, then you get the TCQ going over here. It all needs to be together because these guys don't talk about health and safety. It's that checklist. I I agree with you. It's like it's disjointed.

No, I fully agree with you. So, you know, Senator Hall's position, just to be honest, is change the checklist. We tried, didn't happen. Right. I even rewrote the checklist. Here's a new one. This makes sense. That went nowhere. Right. Yeah. It is went nowhere. So, right. So, this is going to be a big one. We're gonna have to figure out how to refocus TCQ on the original mid mid mid mission of water and sewer and environmental issues and stay out of the mud creation process either by the legislature every two years or something different. But you're right, we got to find a better way doing it. We we're going to get a lot of input on that. By the way, Senator Hall's weighed in. I'm sure TPF next week will weigh in. We'll get a lot of inputs and see what we can do about it. So, makes sense.

Flooding goes with the flooding, too. Yeah, absolutely. storm water. It's like all together. Actually, that's a good point. So, thank you for for saying that. I I'll definitely have that. No problem. I flooded this weekend. So, it's not a problem. My backyard flooded again, you know, because the slope is wrong. So, yeah, absolutely. So, questions,

just one, David. U So, it's not a all or nothing. We don't have to agree with everything you're pushing. We could just participate in the mud portion or if we saw something on cost caps that would affect us, we could also support or you could just participate to give us feedback on all of it and you know times will we'll take like I said before we'll take any feedback because it doesn't behoove anybody to not to take input. We can agree to disagree which is the way this process works right. Um we can also agree to agree or maybe you'll change our minds which will be even better, right? may report. Yeah. So, first of all, I love the idea of enhancements. That that's a great word. I like that a lot. Okay.

Um so, that that just some some feedback from me. Um one of the the big things I I think that we struggle with our MUDs is that interlocal agreement and having the ability to do that, right? Um, and that's one of the things that I know that we've we've been trying to work with our local muds, but I I love this idea of having a coalition and and being able to to go down that path.

I just give you guys a lot of credit for this. You guys are this tip of the spear mud. You truly are. You guys are doing things that we're going to copy actually and try to implement statewide and get the statuto authority for you. Right. Right now, you just fight the mudboard, right? And they'll say, "I don't want $77 a month. I want 30." No. doesn't work that way. But we're not subsidize you. What works really well with the state is tax burden. Why are you burning this the citizens of the city to subsidize the county? No, doesn't work that way. That's not fair, right? They get that really well.

But we want to give you stat authority so you have the right to go talk to them. And there's rules to it, right? So I said, look, if they I think it's $77 in Josephine, right? You're not the red lord. That's fair, right? $7 investment in your public safety code enforcement to me is a great deal by the way because you're safe right you I'm old so when I get amless I want to show up on time right if I break my leg you know hiking somewhere or some crazy things that I do but in the day it's an investment but we want rules around so they can't undercut you they can't say no to you but expect cheap chief to show up anyway

so so my question is is what other cities besides Josephine have you approached and how many have have agreed to kind of All right. So, we have the city of Feda is the the cities in Waga have all talked to. So, we talked to the mayors. We talked to the city council members. We're going to have these two city council members on the board more likely a holding one from you guys. Uh we're taking well we have two city just on accident. Uh she is a pork consultant. So, that's that's her job in the daytime. So, that's going to help us navigate the Austin, right? Um they're um city rock. So here's what's really kind of strange in Rockwell. Only one city has a muds as fate there's five city based muds right so if you think about muds city based mud and county based muds right city based muds are well within the regulation of the city. So fate has five of them. We fight with them, but we do everything for them and they pay his property tax, right? Okay. River Rock, you know, newest mud out there. This is where McClennon Chism, we're going to meet with them next week and and they'll be on board with this. Um I think they like the idea of somebody advocating in Austin to defend the cities on cost caps or u the 15% rule was just to me. I think you're shaking your head over here, but it was crazy they would even think about send a roll back six, seven cents. It's crazy, right? Doesn't mean they should have a right. They shouldn't have the right to do that, but they just it's too complicated. But, um, I think we'll end up with the the city saying yes and they'll do like we're you're doing. Some things will agree with me and some they're not going to agree. Uh, Rockwell has no interest in has interest, but they have no dog in the fight. They don't have a mud, right? uh Heath saying they don't have a mud. Roy City will participate. They don't have a mud yet as Han and Col and Hunt don't have a mud, right? Clinton Chisum is the one that's really going to have

they see it coming now. Now the mayor and the new he's not going to reunction, but he's on the board, too, by the way. So mixed results. I'm just being honest with you, Ryan. Some they'll agree and some they won't agree, but we're going to move forward anyway. So you said River Rock is in McClendon Chism. What's that? River Rock is in McClendon Chisum. Is that right outside Mlendon Chisum? Just half a mile maybe something like that. It's like 6,600 homes coming. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's we're having that down at the right. Well, like you said, the So, I'm been on the council and negotiated with these muds for years. Bless you. So, we we took the approach that you're speaking of.

Yeah. you know, me and the previous mayor, many long days and hours of not saying no, but coming back with different agreements and until we could come to an because if you say no, like in Austin, they just don't listen to you. But if you just say no, they just build without any input. So, it's the the route you are taking. So, I I think hopefully is going to be more successful.

I I I think so. And the victory that your city administer, I'm telling you, those agreements are unique in Texas, by the way. And they're going to make a lot of people think and pause really hard about going for that. This is a good a great idea what you guys did then, but getting My Misty Ventur on board at least to have a conversation with us is huge.

So, I've I've bothered every city attorney that has come through here with a mud or a mud idea. Uh Kurt can vouch that I had one in there and I I think he was getting smaller and smaller as I was talking but they went away and they came back and then they started talking about other options and I think for the first time they actually heard us. So this is for not the Deal Horton ones but another mud that's we're going to be talking about more often. But I think Josephine has a great story. So, a lot of things we've done right, a lot of things that if we didn't start right, we we learned from the experiences and now, you know, they're paying their share. And I think we're one of the few cities that actually has our muds paying their share, both with infrastructure and with um services. So, um I've passed on some information to David just kind of giving him samples of what we've done here. I think they're going to use a lot of that. Um so the idea of a legislative agenda would just one it it uh for his organization it's just kind of saying this this city is on board with us and then two it would allow any of you as opportunities arise you never know when you might be in a a lunchon and you have um someone sitting next to you that has influence um or or somewhere else. I've run into people in crazy places, but it would give any of you or myself or anybody that's um you know that you want to authorize kind of permission to speak on Josephine's behalf if the opportunity comes up.

And I once again like I said that um the doctor is I'll give updates, I'll come back, whatever you want. Call me, email me, I'll answer questions. we're also going to do is if if wrestlers want to go to Austin like I don't have the money to pay their way or have a bus or pay their hotel right but Austin has a unique way of operating on getting registered for a committee hearing it's interesting right so I always make the offer they make it as difficult as possible

so if if you know hey you tell me eight people are coming down I'll meet with them at 7:30 in front of the capital I'll walk them in we'll or 7:00 in the morning, we'll get them registered. We'll walk them how to do, we'll show them the cafeteria, get them coffee, maybe I'll buy them coffee and in the day, we'll get them registered and tell them how the process is going to work, right? One thing they do need to realize it's not like here where they can just keep rambling. By the way, I understand that, mayor, honestly, and Austin, they will literally just cut you off. Do you think that um the group might be able to get an actual invitation to sit in front of a committee so that they could get longer to speak and tell the story?

Yeah, we're going to work on that. So, I don't know if you've been Austin, but you know, there's invited testimony. And guess who they are? The lobbyist,

right? And TPPF, they call them the A team, which just irritates me. So, the A team's here. Let's talk about the A team, right? They say that. So, uh, we're working with some people to get us, uh, to being invited testimony, elected officials, not me, of course, but Mary, maybe you or whoever goes back could be should be invited testimony to tell your story, right? Uh, people like me in the line to do that. Right now, they have said no to that. I'm not sure why yet, but we're going to work on that for a while and see if we can change at least once in a great while. The trick we have learned is this. If your state rep says on the committee, give her three questions to ask you and then just take say what you want. So Bob Hall did for me. Senator Hall did that for me. Hey, what two questions you want me to ask? Because I I asked he asked me two question and I just rambled on. I went on their points I wanted to make. So yeah, there's nuances like that you can do. Your state represent help you if they're on the committee. Uh if they're not on the committee, they can help you by feed a question to to them on the committee if they have friends on the committee. Uh but um we're gonna try to get elected officials should be invited to test us only period. They should be invited because you're elected. Any more questions? Sorry. Sorry for sorry for taking so long, but thank you for your time and effort you guys do. Uh an elected official is hard. I know that. I spent 17 years doing it. I bless you guys and I hope you have a great workshop. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, uh, I'll leave it up to the mayor as to how he wants to approach it. Um, for the sake of time, we will put this on a survey to kind of get everybody's thoughts on it. Uh, if you want to talk about it, great. And if you if you want to move on, we can certainly do that as well. I mean, what what's the next I mean, we put it on the agenda. Yeah, we um the agenda or survey. Oh, we the survey. Survey.

We put it on the survey. We'd send it out. we get all your thoughts and then we kind of collect it back and then at the next work se work work session I can give you the results of that kind of compile them all together. Um but the idea was to see if we could agree upon a you know a legislative agenda so that we'd all have authority to speak on city behalf. I'm not comfort I could talk to our developers as they come in the door and I can tell them our positions. Um and I think a year or two ago you allowed me to we did a resolution so I could go to Austin. and I could speak on our behalf, but I don't want to get too deep into that unless I have the backing of the council. Um, and I think it's good for all of you, too, just just so that um everybody's on the same page about what we're supporting or not. Yeah, I want to try to

what activities be involved in. Put it on the survey and I kind of heard two things. One was to give the city administrator authority to to work with them or talk with them and then the other one is a legislative basically it was to give him information I think is is what you know it was either us as a council person or the city administrator is what I heard. Yeah. Okay. My point is is that there's two things though that that I think it was the request from him today was one give the ability to the city administrator to give him information and work together and the other is that we come up with a legislative session to go down unless I'm misinterpreting that. I didn't get that from a

so um just I think creating the legislative agenda uh one that we're generally in favor of the things that they're supporting or we're going to keep an eye on those things uh like the property tax and all which maybe we don't have an opinion on just yet because we haven't seen a bill uh but as those items come up you can choose to participate in that particular one or not. Um, I think we're all in agreement about how we feel about the muds and they're not going to go away, but the developers have actually, because I've been pushing it pretty hard with each and every one of them, they've actually been pretty receptive to talking to this group um, more than I've ever seen them talk to another group about wanting to be involved. So, I think he's inviting more stakeholders

um that are not just cities, not just counties, and not just a we don't want muds kind of chant, but actually talking with the city administrators or uh I'm sorry, the mud um the mud attorneys or the mud board and kind of getting their perspective, too. So, kind of getting anybody around the table who wants to talk and then as they maybe develop a bill that they want to push forward, you know, we could say, "Hey, we've talked to MUD attorneys, they're on board. We've talked to a developer. They're on board. We did make some compromises, but this is what we're proposing to make the process better.

I I think I think the point that I'm I'm looking at is I I would like to at least have the ability for our city to work with this group. And then I would think that I I just don't want it to die in a work session where we just kind of keep kicking this down work sessions on what we want to legislate for the mud because I think it's it's important that we get this out there quicker. Um, so I I would like to see something on the March agenda to basically say, but it's not giving Lisa the authority. Actually made yet. That's my point. I know it's made. Maybe, yes, but it's not really there as something firm yet was what I was thinking. But they're but they're asking for feedback now as they're going through the process. They're asking for that feedback now. Yeah. They're trying to grow the group. Right.

Right. I'm I'm interested, but I just, like I said, I want to see bylaws. I want to see like a structure. I want to see exactly what we're committing to before we venture off because right now I mean it's still in it infancy phases. Correct. Yeah. But so what I want to talk about at the March legis the March session is where we want to go. Now I don't want to decide it now. I just say I want it on the agenda to be able to I thought you were saying decide it no I just I just don't want it to go to our next work session which could be two to three months from now. I'd rather us talk about it in March and what direction this council wants to go forward with it. And I think you could change your resolution as as time pushes forward. So if you just start with um I'm permitted to spend a little bit of time on this

on the on these topics and and and you all as well as much as you want to be involved. I think that's just the beginning part and then we can add to it as things are more developed. Yeah. I just I don't want to spend tons of time on it without you giving a blessing on it because you know um and then that's what I'm asking for in March is to kind of have that that open discussion and and make a decision how we want to do as a council.

And did I hear you right Lisa that you said that you're discussing with developers to talk to these groups and they're more willing to is that what you said? So, every time I get a developer at the table back here, I I mention that um cities are having more and more difficulty finding finding motivation to work with the muds. It's getting harder. You know, what's in it for us? So, even though they're outside our city limits and we know they're going to be there one way or the other. We either work with them or we don't. Um you do have that wonderful thing about utilities that is kind of the carrot. Um, and you can choose whether or not to serve a mud or or not. You know, we can pull back on CCN if we need to decide that we've already extended ourselves as much as we want to be.

Um, but you're in a great position because nobody else around here can provide utilities the way we can. So, NAB can, but they're a little further that way. Um, Cattle Basin and Roy City and BHP are just not in a position to provide those. So, if they're developing anywhere around here on this east side, um they're going to knock on our door. So, I I think we've got a good story to tell and I I think we know some things that have really worked well and I think as we negotiate contracts, Wildflower, for instance, um it's kind of back on the table. So, we had a development agreement, it's still in place, but now they're open to talking about possibly doing some things a different way. things like um not having uh public safety fees on the utility bill, but making an arrangement with the mud itself and that way people are less confused um and maybe doing our billing a little bit differently. And we'll get to that when we get to the utility billing part of this. But I think they're open now to kind of discussing ways where uh citizens are more aware of what they're buying into. Um there's less confusion about who lives in the city and who doesn't. um and we don't get thrown under the bus every time that you know a public safety fee has to be raised and there is an expectation you know develop a policy or what have you as much approach approach the city we can just kind of tell them upfront well if you're um if you'll work with us and you'll do the following things you know we'll work with you if if you're not going to kind of go our direction on it then maybe we don't

so but I I've had good discussions uh with folks in the back room just as things have come Thank thank you for the feedback. Here's what we can do. I think uh NTC asked us to put put together kind of that there's a one-page summary of the bylaws. Very simple article. So I can definitely do that and take very simple by give you one page bylaws on what we're trying to get done. Okay. I think that's great request. I can definitely do that. That's take me a couple days to do that. But NTC has requested this thing. I just didn't have a chance to do it. We're trying to gauge interest tonight. Right. The other point is um small or little we're going to try to do this right could be two of us maybe but we're going to try to do it right so I think the mud enhancements are so important to the state of Texas and we're going to try to do that but I can definitely give you guys one pager for the help and one pager on what we're doing one pager on the proposed bylaws it won't be complete by laws give you s an idea does that make sense and I can give you uh some more detail around the property tax ideas that we have and give a little more meat what we're doing if that make about three more pages would be good

and I think we can do that. Yeah, if you can do something like that then you know maybe by the next council meeting we can have put something on our agenda to discuss this again. Yeah, I'm retired so Monday I'm doing weekend. So in the day I can try on Monday get it done but I do have a template from NTC and they've been a great help to us. So I got a lot of guidance from them. So So thank you again. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. All right. So, we're gonna move we'll move on. We'll plan on putting something on the agenda hopefully for the next meeting.

Yeah, I could come up with a draft along with his materials. Um, make it kind of broad and then you all can kind of fill it in as we go. Okay, moving on. All right, Melissa's going to go through kind of the budget timeline as far as adoption. So, I'll let her take the floor. I just wanted to quickly touch on this. Um, I'm going to get a little bit deeper into it when I come back. Uh, this is a timeline though. The most important part on here, we still hope for at least two more work sessions with you guys. And mine not on. Okay. And that August will be a very heavy intense month. Um, there's new people on the board. There's several meetings that are required by state law to pass tax and budget. So and then the next two slides that we have is justformational showing our growth and what has gone on the type of volume that we are dealing with um population and then the workload on the next slide justformational for you guys. And this shows our um 2024 SGR compensation study and it shows kind of where we were at with the population that we had. Um currently our personnel is at 42 in um FTE full-time employees. We do have four unfilled positions that we are working to get filled. Um and at this time we have um with the new fire department we have four full-time fire captains, one fire chief as well as 21 um volunteers. And the volunteers we continue to add to we have five more currently in process for that. So that really puts us around 67 including the volunteers in there.

And the following slide talks a little bit about turnover. And really here you want to look at what we can do to keep our employees keeping those people that we've already invested in and that already know our structure, know our city very well, and what we can do to um keep from losing them. And so when you want to look into things like um um being competitive in our compensation as well as our benefits, also workload on how much that we have to handle each day. um it does cost much more to actually um fill a position and it's anywhere from 50 to some places show almost 200% of a salary to um have someone turn over and have to um refill that position.

So the the the where it lists the population versus the employees, what's the asterk beside the 10,800 represent? It's for uh it's not actually our city population what we serve services and that's what we were servicing. Now it's closer to 15,000 and so and on the other populations of these other cities are those actual population or are those utility customers? Actual. So why can we not just put our population versus our utility service? We could, but that with a unique situation.

Well, we're not the only city in a unique situation where we serve outside of our city limits. There's other cities that also do this. Am I not correct? If you want to, we could also do a little research and I just don't want it to be misleading. The accounts served with the other cities. I don't something more more transparent on what we're actually our population versus our employee ratios because to this on this graph not speaking either way but on this graph the way it's based it looks like wow we need 50 more employees and that's not the case so yeah I'll get that I can get that information

yeah thanks I was going to actually suggest the same thing I I know I know that we kind of consider the mud part of Josephine, but they're really not. We only serve utilities for them. The city, we actually do all services for our citizens, right? So, I think that's kind of where I think you're saying it's misleading, right? Public safety over there as well. Yeah. I mean, which is which is a service that they pay for. Um, but still at the end of the day that we need to distinguish if we're going to have those numbers that way, we need to have those numbers which is not going to be feasible to get from all those other cities. So, we need to have it one way or the other or that needs to be in there and be to where everybody that looks at that piece of paper understands what what that number represents.

I think you could do both, too. I think we could put um our actual population numbers and then our service area numbers and we can probably get the same thing from the other cities as well. Yeah. And I'm find I think you're going to find it's going to be very comparative to other cities or we're going to be in an advantage compared to population employee ratio. I'll get those for you.

Okay. Events planning. Um could we back up a page? Um Shannon, what have you learned from the exit interviews? Um what do you mean? The question was what have I learned from the exit that you can say in public? Um that um probably policies just need to be a little bit more stricter on some things. Stricter policies. Okay. Thank you. Um one other question on that. with when you've got all the turnover pieces of it. Is there a way that we can kind of get that broke out by department of what the turnover is? Is it I can get that for you.

And I can get you the ratios and everything for it.

Okay, perfect. So, I want to I want to say on the budget side from my standpoint before we move on to the next topic, um any staff that's been here knows where I stand, especially Lisa. So, when we approach our budgets this year, I want everybody to be looking to work within your means. The answer to um our budget is not raise taxes. Um I want us to work with what we have. I've been very clear on that in the past and that's what I expect is to work within the means that we are given. Work within the means of the growth. Um I don't want to be raising taxes. I'm not going to support it. So just so you understand where I'm I have not changed my stance. still a level tax rate.

Correct. So, okay. So, based on valuations, that could still be an increment 3.5% of an increase. So, based on values based on what we've done the past, we've kept the rate steady. We've kept the rate steady. And that's what I'm that's what I'm looking for. Okay. That's what we needed to know.

Council can have a different opinion, but that is my stance on it. And um that's that's where I that's what that's what I want. If we're going to if you bring me in an employee that you're going to hire and you we need to hire them outside of our hiring first or second tier, I need very clear um data showing why this employee is worth this x amount of dollars. That's what I expect out of that's all I expect out of the budget. We have to have an increase. It has to be very clear on on not just because well why do we need these five employees or why do we need this? Um so just so anybody that's new or um that's where so you understand my stance on that. So

I I go I agree. One of the things that I do have a concern with is making sure that the all the departments understand that we took on a huge additional department this past year with the fire department. the other departments are going to have to help close that gap for them because they are going to need a larger budget, right? We we know that. We knew that coming into this. So, I I just need to make sure that everybody understands that you're you're looking at what you're doing this year, but you also need to look at what can you get rid of this year to allow the room and the overhead for the fire department as well. One thing I'll get rid of as in service or

their budget's going to have to increase, right? I mean, they came in with a skeleton budget last year. We we kind of passed it as a city council basically because we knew that the volunteer department was going to cover most of that stuff and making that transition and I think the chief has done an amazing job of making that transition. But it's something that we have to realistically look at the needs of the fire department going forward um into the next budget year. I think one thing we can probably try and implement, I know it was brought up last year was about our contribution percentage to retirement. There's a few cities have increase that I believe ours is at seven. Mhm. I want to seven. Some are going to eight.

Correct. I want to start looking at 8% to also help with retention. Although if we can't compete compared, you know, salary wise, but if we can kind of compete in that area, start looking working towards that 8%, that's something that I would like to see. That's a great incentive for people to work here. Absolutely. But the other thing that we have to remember doing that also is we need to fund that part of the retirement because we've put that off. If if we can look at if we can start entertaining that and start to see if that's something that we feasible, I would like to see how that we can get that into play.

I think we'll see uh coming with the the new fire chief with, you know, his a budget. Look, I'm not trying to I'm not trying to steer y'all away from saying, "Well, I I need this money or and it's going to cause us to need a quarter, whatever." What I'm saying is don't expect it. You know, try to work your budget within your means. And we are growing. Our tax base is growing. So, we're going to add funds to our general fund to hopefully subsidize the growth of the fire department. We all know the budget is going to grow for the fire department. Um, but I don't want every department thinking that we're just going to ask, you know, for I don't want myself to be presented with something that I'm not even going to look at is what I'm trying to eliminate. I don't want a inflated budget being brought to me or me sitting down with Lisa and look at an inflated budget that I'm not even going to entertain. So, I want us to be very tight from the beginning and then work from there. So that's all I'm

I think that's why we're here today so that each department can just provide a perspective. We're not suggesting there's anything hard and fast here. It's just so you can hear where they are and what they feel like is coming. And then at the next meeting, I think by then we'll have that survey out and we'll get you guys some some questions and feedback. And then we may actually be a little bit stepper uh closer as far as uh we don't have a draft budget yet. You know, we're not that far along. We're just gathering information. So, but that's good to know. Good to know. Without jumping ahead, I'm not sure. Uh, Chief Chief Graham, um, have you introduced or have any kind of, uh, plans to do a lateral program?

That's part of our conversation today. Good to go. Thank you. We can visit that later.

Okay. All right. This next topic is our events planning. Um, I know our our great events that everybody is familiar with the most are the Christmas in the park and fireworks in the park, but if you look at that list, we actually do quite a lot throughout the year. Uh, some things a little larger than others, but um, things like our angel tree program, it takes up a lot of city time to do that. Um, but we've there are needs in this community. Um, and we want to make sure everybody has a a happy um, Christmas season. Uh some of the other things don't take too much time, but if we start looking at places to cut, this might be one of the lists. You know, if we want to tone down some activities on some of these um I mean that that could be maybe something we have to look at if we want to make it a little tighter. So, for this one, I'll put it on the um survey as well, but just if you would just kind of take a look at that list and think of things that are really important to you that we maintain. Um anything that maybe you are willing to cut back on a little bit, anything that you think we've done excessively, um too much of a fireworks or drone show or anything like that. uh we'll just be looking for for feedback so we can kind of get some ideas if we do need to change things up and maybe some of these you don't want to do anymore or maybe you have ideas that we haven't thought of that maybe you would like to do.

Um Lisa, one thing I I thought I didn't see on here was the back to school bash. Did Did we stop doing the back to school bash stuff? No, we do it. We may have left that off, but yes, we do that. You're talking about the backpack giveaway with the supplies. Yes. Yeah. And then the fire department used to do stuff as well, but I don't know if we just do that as one thing now. Um I think police has mostly done the the back to school. Yeah. And then the the fire department, you guys used to do stuff for back to school bash, too, right? Yeah.

Yeah. It used to be like fire department did well when it was volunteer the Easter egg hunt and all that. So I could see that as well we just wanted to touch on that. We'd also like to know how much participation council would like to have. So as far as planning the events um traditionally it's kind of been left to staff. We're not trying to take anybody out of the picture. So if anybody wants to be involved in that, we're happy to create some sort of a quarterly committee or a m committee that maybe meets quarterly um for the select the ones you want to keep. So just something to think about and again I'll put it on the survey and that'll be one of the questions was you know participation um you know we can continue to do it the way we've been doing it but we're certainly happy to have involvement by council if you if you wish.

What's the letters to the troops? Um, I'll let Jerica go over that. She probably is a little bit more familiar, but that's when we send uh letters to our our troops and they go overseas. I think there's a radio station, I don't remember which one, that kind of sponsors it and they ask for participants and uh kids can write them from school or they can write them independently, but it's words of encouragement and support for people here. Come up here and write a letter and we send them out.

They they just they bring them to us and we collect them and then we send them on out. It's holiday cards for the troops that get from I don't remember the radio station, but yeah, we have a lot of our res. Okay. And then you just mail them out to or you give them to whoever the thing is. Some residents can't hand stuff them or write on them or anything. So, they'll ask us to write them. That's not one of our super expensive items. That's just something we think is just um good community relations. In the survey, are you going to kind of list out what these what these have cost us in the past?

I can. So, there's anything else you'd like me to put on that one for that part of the survey? I guess my question would be before you send the survey out, are you going to be working with the fire association or is that still a independent agency to decide what will contribute to that? Like will the activities be split versus the city doing it? It it is separate. It's an auxiliary organization.

Yeah, it's a 501c3. It's independent. Um but they're they're working in conjunction with the fire department itself. But I mean that might be an opportunity that that they could kind of work back and forth on. I know this year the association is doing um the uh Easter egg at the house, but the department the fire department itself is doing the actual main event where they actually do the the Easter egg um hunt in the park.

But we promote it, you know, on our city website and and Facebook and get the word out. Okay. Move on. All right, Garrett, I think you're Oh, utility billing. I'm sorry. Utility billing.

You want to take it? Oh, okay.

Um, so we've been I'll I'll take it. So, we've been trying to since some of our issues with the mud last year and running into the folks who um have struggled, I guess due to maybe poor disclosures, but understanding, you know, if they're inside city limits or outside. Um, one thing we can do that's relatively simple and we could implement it fairly soon is to just change the way we bill the non-residents. and we can call it whatever you want to call it, but something that says something like Josephine non-resident utility services. It's just a doing business as name. Um, none of the accounting or, you know, anything like that would change. It's just having a different heading and just kind of so people know from the very very beginning when they're signing up for services or if they don't know now, they probably know now because we've kind of been through a few things. Um, but it's just kind of make that distinguishment. um it's not us versus them. We still want them to be part of the greater community, but we do want them to understand that there is there are some differences between being in the city and being outside the city. So, we were kind of thinking of a doing business as name. Um, I don't know that it would really cost a whole lot except maybe what some just

I can't see any cost. Okay. So, just a just the effort put into kind of doing our software a little differently and getting our bills out a little bit differently and we could spend a month or so, you know, kind of telling people what's changing that it's your bill is still coming here, you know, but we're still providing the service. None of that's changed. But just to kind of make it anything we can do to make it clear because we still get folks that come up here and you know argue that they are part of the city and you're part of our greater community. We welcome you but please know that you know you are outside city limits.

I think it's a good way to softly educate people. Would that came come on the same bill that they're already getting or would it be build out as two different bills and when they pay it if you do the auto pay you have a fee that goes with the auto pay. So would they be charged that auto pay twice? No, it would still be one bill essentially taking city of Joseph logo off putting a different logo rebranding. Okay. essentially what we so their whole water bill would be doing business as and not city of Josephine for water and then doing business as for the other. Okay. Does that sound reasonable? Yes.

If you have other thoughts where and we certainly put that on the survey too and you know you want to sleep on it and let us know. Um, we're just kind of trying to come up with some things that better communicate with the mud. Don't want to offend anyone out there. We want them to still participate in all that they can come to our events. Um, we don't want to make anything seem unwelcoming at all. We just want to help people understand how it works. Okay. Well, we'll put a a question or two on that so you all can chime in. Okay. Public works. Is there anything else I miss on utility? Okay.

All right. Uh Kirk and Jake,

I'm going to take the uh first item, the TCQ regulatory compliance. I have an update for the council. Uh I have some information to share with you regarding our wastewater treatment plants, which is going to be both of them. Uh the north and the south. We have we are in receipt of and have received a proposed agreed order um which is a proposed penalty for being out of permit compliance which there are a few factors that have caused the plants to be pushed out of compliance. uh both plants are at what we call uh in the operations the 70% 90% rule uh which is normally triggered by growth. Um at the 70% uh rule the city the plant needs to be in the planning and engineering application to TCQ. We need to start working on improvements which we have already started at both plants. At when your plant starts reaching 90% capacity, you should already have approved plans funding and starting construction. So we are actually at that threshold. However, um you know, you are still taking it in and you are still pushing towards your permit levels. So, that's where you have to be follow those steps of to maintain compliance which we are. So, I wanted to give you an update to that. There is timelines to respond back um which we um you normally follow their their procedures with your engineer. Your engineer will reach out to them acknowledge that you have done

it. There are a couple options which I will let Jacob address that you know and explain that uh to you all when you know when the time is appropriate. Um and if you have any questions but we have responded and uh we have selected the options that we feel is the best to go. Are we at that 90% threshold? Oh yes. Got it. Yes. And what kind of assessment will we be facing?

Uh I'll I'll I'll defer to Jacob to to uh respond to that because there are a couple options. one is called an SOP and I'll let him tell you what the definitions are because there's a monetary amount but there are ways to work with that. So that's that's where you follow your engineering guidelines and I'll I'll let you take that.

Sure. Yes. Good afternoon Mayor Council. Uh Jacob here with Deno. So, regarding both wastewater plants, y'all are very well aware both of them are in construction for improvements, um, upsizing, new equipment, technology. Um, and so there were some issues kind of reported last year while we were in construction where we were going over permit limitations, a lot of flow kind of issues. And the thing that you run into with TCQ is the operators, Kirk and his team, you know, they report and take this data daily, monthly, quarterly, whatever the TCQ requirements are, and then they submit it to the team in Austin. And so that group, what they're doing is they're reviewing it and saying, "Well, you're not meeting your permit requirements. You know, I'm going to enforce a a penalty on you guys." Now, the problem is that team isn't speaking to the other team in Austin that's under the that's aware that we're improving our plant as we speak. Like, it's in construction for upsizing. And so, what we've been doing since this was kind of new. It's just been a couple weeks that this has come to light. Um, we've reached out and as Kirk mentioned, there's a uh an application, it's called an SCP, supplemental environ supplemental environmental project. And so what we do is there's a there's a fine of TCQ that comes with the violation. And so what we do to kind of negotiate negotiate out of it is we tell them we are spending the equivalent amount of money to improve the plant already. And so they they do like a dollar for-doll buy down. Well, it's not nearly the amount that y'all are already spending to actually build the new infrastructure. And so what we have to do is we have to fill out that paperwork. we kind of have to explain to them, hey, we're adding on um 750,000 gallons per day of treatment capacity to this plant, you know, and so

the issue that we currently have with busting permits or whatever on on I ini and rainy days and all that fun stuff, um we're addressing that as we speak. And so what we like to do is request that this fine it be waved, you know, because we're already spending it. We have to show them, you know, receipts or contracts or whatever else is going on. So, we're in the middle of doing that right now. Um, seeing kind of the process that they want to take to kind of clear Josephine of the issues that's going on with that. So, from my understanding, this is more of a formality process on the right hand, but on the left hand they're we're still they're not communicating as far as like, hey,

TCQ must be the most frustrating organization in the state that I've ever dealt with. Um, they're they say they're transparent, but things are very difficult to find on their on their website. It's very difficult to actually talk to somebody on the phone. They're very slow in their responses. We applied for our permit what, two years ago? It'll be three. And one department doesn't talk to the other which is the biggest problem. So, so we went through this on the last plant as well.

I think they came back and was hit was like $50,000 number or something like that. But we had already done everything we were supposed to. We were building the other plant, transferring, putting the new line in, and it be it was basically a wash. But it's a lot of wasted paper and manh hours that we have to pay our engineers. And if they had approved the permit, they'll approve a developer application for a mud. They have an expedited process of 120 days. Yep. For us, it's taken three years, and we still don't quite have that permit nailed down. So, that's how frustrating it is is, okay, you know, we've applied to build a new plant. we actually had to start it and and go ahead because we we knew that we were um didn't have any more time.

But it's been three years and we still don't even have the official permit. So that's the frustrating part. But I think uh Kirk and Jacob have a great plan as to remediate. We just have to do a lot of documentation. So I don't think you're ever going to have to pay a penny. I'm good. Okay. Do you'all have any other questions on that? We just wanted to make you aware. Um, instead of waiting multiple years, is there are there benchmark cities that send communications to them as reminders like every 90 days to say, "Don't lose us. Don't drop our paper off your desk to TCQ."

Yeah. So, and again, kind of different departments. So, the people that came out and like did inspections, they they tend to be local people that maybe are in the DFW offices and then you have a whole branch down in Austin. And so when we they are very aware that this project's in construction. It's just a different group of people are aware of it. Um and so there's not really a way to communicate with the people that are reading his reports until such a time that they reach out to us and say, "Hey, we see some issues with your existing permit. You know, we need to get that remedied." And so we have to explain to them the process of, "Well, we've already done plan review with your plan review team. Um you guys have already approved it. We're also in the middle of a discharge permit major amendment which is a whole another division and so bits and pieces are updated just depending on what department it's in. And so I don't know if there's an exact way as you mentioned to maybe give them updates because there's different departments and so we kind of have to figure out who needs what information and when they need it.

Okay. Um I believe last year in our budget we had $10,000 put aside for possible fines. Is it higher than that? The proposed the proposed fine yes the proposed is higher and like I said there's one for each okay and the other question is um so is this regarding the lagoon and the plant or is it regarding the plant that we're building the lagoon.

Okay. And so for the lagoon, I guess my next question is with your experience as an engineer and your experience doing this for a long time and the fact that the numbers and the the water capacity little graphs that are on that TV in in the other building. Mhm. Um if did you see this coming? Is there anything you could have done to prevent it?

The answer is yes. This is not uncommon when a community experiences rapid growth. So it's up to it's the responsibility of the operators, the directors, administrators to know that that's why they have that 70 90%. As you're approaching those numbers on what you're reporting, that is when that person says, "Hey, we're getting close. We need to start," which we did with the lagoons. We started that 3 years ago. We lost a little bit of time uh about a year's time with some permit questioning, you know. So, um but you know, we did start the process like Jacob said, it's unfortunate that the permit that we're already in construction to improve the process, the volumes, etc., which will answer, you know, answer all these questions for them. But this other department does not talk with enforcement.

Okay. Is it possible to get a copy of of what they sent as Yes, it is. And that's what I'd like.

We have the exact same scenario at the Magnolia site and they are in construction as well. Um, and I've expressed this to Lisa and I'll express it to the council that as this community continues to grow, the Magnolia sewer plant site has their permit is in phases or stages. So, they have another stage. They will do the same thing as that plant starts to reach 70% capacity. That's when what will trigger the operator say hey or we we need to start doing this. So we may expect this exact same scenario in a few years.

Okay. So I'm going to ask a hypothetical. Maybe that's a bad idea. So would we have a we have a water emergency plan that we've talked about over month months and years. If we had instituted a water restriction a step higher, would that have prevented the fine? No. No. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. The Magnolia plant. Uhhuh. They're building the second basin. Yes. Okay. So, that's not going to be enough. Is that what I'm hearing you say? They're going to have to do another one after that eventually. Yeah. That but not right now. That site is site is uh set up for three different phases of total buildout.

All right. Did not know that. So, just from my understanding as well, we've projected this. We weren't we're not playing catch-up. Correct. That's correct. Right. We projected this, but we're at the mercy of an organization that has multiple different facets within it who don't communicate. So, we did our due diligence and went ahead and proceeded to efforts to prevent this. We've been anticipating this. It's here. So, I'm giving you your courtesy notice as our counsel that it's it's here. How confident do you feel that we can we can work with them to get that?

We should be able to do it. I know we've also kind of talked to the attorney about some of this before. Um, and we've done this with like the city of Farmersville. They had some issues with permit limitations and kind of busting issues. Um, and there's a couple different things you can do such as building a brand new plant. But if maybe you weren't in the middle of construction for a brand new plant, um, if the city had expended any funds to fix the problem at its core, you can utilize that, you know, and say, "Hey, we've got receipts that say we had to buy more chemicals. We had to buy this pump. we had to do this. It's going to offset the cost that we spent um and that you're trying to find us for. So, it's just kind of a procedural process right now. And seeing the also unfortunate thing is there's two different people that are directing these you're dealing with one person on the Northwest Water plant and one other person on the Magnolia plant. So, we got to kind of get them to work together and see all right well we're trying to do these simultaneously. Can we extract?

But they're both our employees, right? No, no, no. These are TCQ people. TC. It was just assigned to two different people at TCQ and so it it just makes it harder to streamline it a little bit, but that's how it goes. Jacob and Kirk, just a question. So the 70 90% rule, I understand it, but as fast as we're growing, uh, would it make sense to maybe have our own little internal rule that says maybe we start at 50% or 60%, so we can get going on these a little earlier as just because of the fast growth, pull the trigger on the capital projects a little sooner.

Yeah. Yeah, what we can do um you guys have good flow data coming in and so the flow data is really dependent on every city's different, every community is different and so based on how many connections are being served, how much waste water is coming in, you can really project out such as if we continue to grow at x many homes per year, uh theoretically this plant can only serve 4,000 homes, we'll be at 4,000 homes in 2035 or something like that. And so you would then kind of backtrack saying, "Well, it takes about two years to build a plant, takes about a year to design it, so we need to start planning for maybe a new phase in 2032." You know, we can we can definitely kind of long-term plan that. Um, and the Magnolia plan is a little different because all those phases are through the the muds that are kind of coming into it. So they also have that information that they provided to us such as we would expect this many homes on the ground by this date. So we work with them on their kind of planning for that plant as well.

And is it the waste water only or waste water and water both? Just waste water. And for the wastewater several times we've talked about with all the 12 muds that are surrounding us um the option of maybe a central wastewater. Um would that alleviate a deficiency like this?

I don't know if it would alleviate this particular deficiency. um a centralized wastewater plant would help so you don't have maybe duplicate setups. You know, if you were and it'd be really difficult because y the ways y'all's just topography of the city rolls naturally things want to go one direction, stuff wants to go the other direction. A centralized plant would, you know, you could maybe decommission, you know, both plants. You'd have one bigger one so you're not spending twice on plants. Um, it wouldn't necessarily alleviate this particular issue, just other just other items. Thank you.

You actually said something that I just want to dig into a little bit more. You said we got delayed on the permitting process. Yes. when we did the uh application for the north sewer plant um there's an opportunity for members of the surrounding area community to oppose or ask questions and which is you know normal and that process took a long time okay so I mean the fact that you guys started it three years ago it sounds like you guys were proactive that's the reason for the rule is you to and theos closing was finished over probably about two years ago. So, it's been that's been over with for a while. So, yeah, but it's still added delay. It's just the

Yeah. Yes. Okay. All right. Just curious. Thank you. Next. Um, thank you. Did you want me to run through kind of the other items on the list? I'm I'm I've kind of got some updates. Sure. Go ahead. If you want to just follow the lead and take it.

Sure, we'll do that. Um, at the previous council meeting, I kind of mentioned there was a few items on kind of our project list I was going to be bringing more detailed information on at this workshop session. So, I've got my partner in crime, Jonathan, over here. Um, I think what we'll go ahead and start with, hopefully maybe easy to hard, I don't know. Y'all y'all tell me as you get them. Um, I wanted to talk about the roadway improvements because that's actually the next item on there

is kind of long-term infrastructure objectives including roing roadway paving, curb and gutter improvements. So, this is really more specifically with the extra effort needed um after the sewer line was put in. And so, you know, we were we did the sewer line replacement down Milton Street, parts of Kado Street, which is now completed. it's in service and it was, you know, obviously the emergency situation was kind of that that line was under size. We were having some discharge out of manholes and what have you. So, we we rapidly move that contractor, right? Mhm. Okay.

So, the contractor that did this project is the one that's doing the Northwest Water Plant. You know, he's he's got experience in sewer. And so, we had we had actually reached out to another contractor. It didn't really bode very well, so we reached out to this one. Um, and in his effort and in his bid and in his contract, it just includes repairing the roadway to the existing condition. Um, and you have to think the only roadway that I was actually prepared and had asphalt on it is the western half of Milton Street. Everything else is just kind of rock. And then there was also we we actually met um a couple weeks ago with Garrett and kind of walked this area. There's contemplation of finishing Cado Street all the way down to East Street. Um because again that was what was tore up by the school with their sewer line project and it was just left over as kind of a gravel roadway. Um and so again that's it's everything is kind of starting to get out of what the scope of the the sewer line contractor is. And when we've we've had discussions with him, he's not a roadway repair contractor. you know, he he has some subs that can come out and do it. Um, but what we're presenting to you today is a pretty large value associated with repairing that roadway from the west side of Milton through both sections of Milton Street and then all the way down Kado Street to East Street. Um because I know that's been kind of a thing is that the cities, you know, now that we're done with these sewer line improvements that are all kind of there, theoretically these sewer lines are going to last you guys a very very very long time. You know, we've expressed interest in getting them back to roadway conditions that, you know, the city's adopted that the city likes. Um and so what we wanted to bring to you guys is the way that the current contract is with the sewer line. um with that

project and that contractor, we could not change order in this amount of work. Legally, we would be over the 25% threshold. Um because I think totally, I know it's kind of broken up by sections, but if you look at from A to Z of that road improvement, it's it's a little over $400,000, which includes full subgrade work and then an asphalt overlay on it. So, it would look like um was that Jordan Street? That that little section of Jordan Street kind of over there. That's kind of what the finished product would look like. Um so, I kind of wanted to bring this to y'all's attention to see council's thoughts and and how we want to proceed with this. I I think what would likely happen is we we'd solicit bids for a real road contractor to finish it out.

Did we forget to put that in the quote? Did we forget to put it in the contract? He the sewer line contractor had in his contract to repair it to existing conditions. Okay. Which the gravel road which is the gravel road. So he has done that. He has done what was in his contract. Which part are you talking about was gravel. Um once you get to the east side of the creek Yeah. that portion of Milton Street was gravel

and then Kado Street as it exists today is gravel once the school came in there and kind of tore things up with that. So, what about the section between Maine and what is the other road down here? Um, Byron, I mean, uh, that was gravel, I believe, as well. That was not Yeah, that was not gravel.

It's chip seal. Okay. Well, and I think the thing that we're presenting to you today is really the new basis for these roads. It would be pricing to do what 8 in of cement stabilized subgrade with a 3-in hot mix asphalt overlay on top of it. So, above and beyond, you know, kind of what the contractor included initially. And also, I think what his how much was budgeted for this contractor to bring it back to original grade? His contract was the million dollars for the sewer line project. Do we know what was budgeted for the road?

Uh we can get that number. What was exactly included for it? I don't think it was this this value. So what would happen is any money that he actually had in the roadway repair, we would take out of his contract. I've been under the assumption that we had the road in the budget. We had the road to repair it to the existing condition and the only one that would have been the real asphalt would have been the west side of Milton Street which is correct. And then we have

the section in blue space and chip seal. We're now raising it to concrete stabilization which is I mean I understand the cost and I don't I'm not I'm not coming at you. I understand the cost but um well I know that's not this isn't a fun number to present to you guys or fun information at all. So

I have a couple questions and and Jason maybe this is for you um because I know your experience about all this. There have been several roads that I've lived on where to save money, they put down a very fine gravel and dirt combination and then put the oil over it and it settles and it's temporary for a while. Is that something? No, that that that could be either two things. You could either be talking about, you know, like a a fog seal, which is kind of like a dust control, um, which is not longlasting, or chip seal. Yeah. Um and that would save money though with that kind

I think um the chip seal would be cheaper than asphalt. But um if and like I say again if done correctly unlike the east that was done very poorly then the asphalt is a much better long-term fix. But um that east end all the way down to what used to be county is basically just falling to pieces. I mean and that road has not even reached 3 years.

I mean it's when I go down that road and I'm going to vent. I get very frustrated. Sure. Just throwing tax money out the back window. Are you talking about the part we need to and as you stated it's we have to be done they have to be done correctly and all along I've been told that bring it back to existing not all this road was rock there's a lot in here that was that had either chip seal correct or some asphalt correct

and I intend for those costs to be offset by the contractor in their bid. I want to know what the number was for how much money was in there for the road repairs. Yeah. And again, the the values that are represented here are above and beyond. Like these are kind of through learn mistakes as you mentioned. You know, those portions over there as you get into the wastewater plant. Um that it just it's evidence that this dirt is very difficult to kind of stabilize and really kind of build a road on. And so this detail and these pricings are kind of what we found to really work and be a more long-term solution other than go on a full concrete curb and gutter street which I don't think we want to

no explore right now. So, so Jacob and Jason, both of you, whoever wants to answer, you're our engineer and do we have for for I know that every job is different. I know that. But isn't there like a template like check the electric, check the sewer, check the the road, check the the top, check the, you know, underground wires? I mean, isn't there a template that you can go down and say, "We don't need that. We don't need that, but yes, we need to think about the road tar and the road repair." Sure. Sure. So, what happened?

Well, that's So, with this kind of being the emergency that it was and moving it forward, really, the only thing that was asked of the contract with his original pricing was put in the sewer line and repair the road to existing conditions. So, this is a next phase of a roadway repair. So, we'll move forward. The mark was missed. It's very apparent. The mark was missed on these, but we're going to have to try to move forward and and as a council and try to uh fix it,

you know, resolve the road issues and budgeting and and determining what, you know, what we're going to do. Um, obviously these are going to have to go out for bid. I believe that is the case. Yes, they will be too large to do anything else with them. Um, and we're going to bid chip seal and asphalt or just asphalt.

Yeah. And the with the short so chipsill works on you know an FM market road really well because you have long stretches not a lot of turning. Um when you get school buses that are turning in short distance trucks they don't chipsill is not a good um so it needs to be asphalt. It needs to be asphalt because we're going to we're going to have issues with chipsill. Um one technical question. Did you said you said eight inches of asphalt um cement stabilized subgrade? So they would overexavate recompact it and then they would put a cement stabilization in the subgrade. Okay.

And then they would put the actual asphalt on top of that. It's only like 3 in of of hot mix. So technically you get a subgrade you you will win you will win row your material. I just built Castle Road and Rowlette the same way. You mix it in, you add your water, you lay your base, and then you let it dry, and then you put your asphalt on top of it. So, you basically have concrete in your rock to stabilize it, which is the most uh longlasting. It takes more money, but you are building a longlasting product. It's going to be there for you.

Thing is 8 in, right? I mean, you can determine however much base you have. Question, Jason. This is a purpose for asking this question while we're doing this, just so we have understanding. I when they raise the road in front of my house, FM6, by doing the same what? So, you're technically not going to you're not runs down and I want to make sure that we're not causing flooding for these other people that we don't take that.

So, you're not you're not necessarily going to add any more material besides the asphalt. you're going to take the actual subgrade that you have, granted that it is a good quality subgrade, which has to be, you know, examined by the contractors and um which most of it is good subgrade. That rock that is on that road will have Portland mixed with it and that will be the base that they will then in in return lay the asphalt on top. So, um, unless there's low spots or swags in the road, our material cost for, you know, for the subgrade should be very minimal, unless they go in and say, "Hey, all this material is is not quality. It needs to be removed. we need to add a new

testing, but they they won't raise the road to that con concern of yours. Not and then asphalt, you're looking at, you know, a two to four inch cap maximum. 8 in of adding um a Portland is a lot. 8 in is a lot. you know, you know, on a for a small residential street, 3 to four inches and adding Portland into that is is going to be substantial if you pack the the subgrade below that. So, okay, cool. I mean, thank you. I don't know the these costs are going to be um where did you get the numbers? How did you get the numbers?

The just recent bids. We just the city of Farmersville just did some recent roadway projects very similar in nature and so we just kind of pulled So these are recent and comparable to the area. And Jonathan, what were you going to add? You've been quiet. Yeah, he's just here to answer the port here. Okay. I kind of do a lot of the leg work on on design and uh pulling some of these numbers for you guys. So yeah, he's the one he's been doing all the work. I'm just here to talk about it. Thank you. Yes.

I would like to know um I want to see that contract of how much money was in there for the road. Yeah, we can do that. So, I guess what we're looking at moving forward on this item is we're going to have to come back to council and present something to go out and you want this uh I guess a March item probably. Yes, please. Okay. All right, we can do that. Anybody else want to speak on this item? Go ahead. If not, we'll go to the next.

All right. Um, well, we'll keep rolling with the wastewater theme. Um, so, and Kirk and Garrett will probably really help me out when it comes to this one. So, for the north wastewater plant, um, the original design that was completed Oh, thank you. and put out for bid was a very similar style to the Magnolia plant because you got to remember that one was already completed that was in service. That's what y'all's operators were working with. And so the North plant while total um disinfection and treatment capabilities, the sizes were a little different. The equipment and the manufacturers that was where the basis of everything came from. And so I know since this project has been designed and bid and gone into construction at this point, there's been some different operators and some new things learned along the way. And one of the things that we're here to talk to you guys about is kind of a request by the operation team to do a different style of sludge processing. And so just to kind of give you a background, I don't want to get into all of the weeds or anything on it. So this is just a real very simple um kind of presentation. We have a picture of the north wastewater plant for those of you who haven't seen it. You know it's very exciting. And then we also have an enlarged uh version of it as well. Um these are really small. So just to give you a little bit of a detail on the sludge and the processing of it. So, the plant receives raw waste water and one of the byproducts that actually gets taken to a dump is sludge. It looks like mud.

Um, it's it's one of the only real actual byproducts. Everything else gets kind of redistributed back into the streams and whatnot. Uh, from there.

Okay. So, when we drink it afterwards after they clean it up there and water, I guess. So, for the sludge to be processed, what we have to do is because it's coming from the water, we have to be able to squeeze it, decompress it, and get all that extra water out of it, which then goes back to the beginning and gets treated again. And so, there's a number of different methods to treat sludge and to get it real flat and where you want it, so that way it gets put into a dumpster and it gets taken to the appropriate landfills. So, what we had at the South Plant is called a screw press. It looks like a big screw, a big metal augur. It's a very kind of just consistent kind of a slowm moving piece of equipment that once it gets started, it just kind of slowly spins and it it flattens out that that cake, that sludge. It gets all the extra water out and then it gets dumped into it. So that was what was proposed for the north plant. Um now what we've come to kind of see and what the operators have kind of come to explain to us is that the screw press um and I kind of put it in here. There's there's somewhat limited flexibility in what they can do as operators to change how quickly it functions. It's a very streamlined item. you you really can't open it up. You can't do a whole lot to it. And that was actually kind of the intent of the screw press is minimal effort needed from the staff. But the problem is it it moves a little bit slower than they would like it to. And with the limited number of people there, what what they've started to have to do um and this is all really based on the South Plant operations is once it gets up and going, it takes about 4 hours before it actually has an output. So you

turn it on, it takes about 4 hours before you get anything out of it. Well, they have to keep it running overnight for typically days at a time to waste all the sludge that has built up in the plant over time. And we've had the manufacturer come out. We've had him give us tips and tricks. He's looked at it, make sure it's all operational. He's given us advice on it. And at the end of the day, that's just kind of how the screw press operates. It just it's very consistent, very little flexibility. And so I know with again with the staff, what they've started expressing interest in is maybe a change at the North Plant for a different machine. Now, the next line item, the next slideshow is what what they've um requested is it's called a belt press.

So, I believe you guys went to Greenville and saw their plant. Does that seem right? So, um yeah. So, Greenville has a very large wastewater plant. They're kind of a regional provider over there. Uh but they have a belt press. Farmersville has a belt press and a screw press. So they have both of them just at their different plants. But I know the operation team here has really kind of gained some some real interest in the belt press. Now kind of a little different from that, that one has a lot more flexibility for an operator. You can go in, you can change how those belts work. You can speed them up a little bit more. You can flatten them down. It's not a closed system. So while kind of initial effort will be a little bit more involvement with the staff to get that correctly, what it tends to do is it moves a little bit quicker. It it operates that sludge at a better rate depending on them and their kind of preferences and how quickly they want to move around. Um, and so really to bring this all to heal, um, is the change from a screw press to a belt press is unfortunately not a one for one swap with the existing contract as it is today. This belt press is bigger, so the building that was outfitted um, has to be expanded on. The electrical is going to change leading power to it a little bit. Um, and so there's I don't know if it's in here or not. Uh, let me see here. What else did I miss on that? Uh, the belt press, the installation of the belt press, a warranty for this new belt press. Um, a conveyor system kind of modifications. I say modifications. The building has to like it's going to get quite a bit bigger. It's going to get taller. It's going to get bigger. It's going to be another um Yeah. So,

it basically means starting over. No. Okay. Not. No. The rest of the plant will continue, but this particular item, it comes with a a price tag of an extra $500,000.

I'll let the operator answer that one. I'm not a So, basically, we've learned that the screw press takes 96 hours of constant sledge processing to get out the same amount that we can get in 4 hours worth as with this new process. That's saving water, that's saving power, that's saving overtime. Cuz right now, Shannon can speak on we're paying guys 24 hours a day for 96 hours of overtime. Um, that's a huge that's going to save in my opinion is this $500,000. Um, but yeah, basically did you receive this? Did y'all get this from So,

so then I'm assuming you guys have actually have a business case where you kind of show the recovery of that 500,000 and how many months it would take. We have not. No, this is just bringing it to you for I know that's what I'm saying. I I think that's something I'd like to see is what's the buyback on this? If we do this, at what point does the city actually gain get the money back? Yeah. So, and it takes 96 hours. Currently, we're processing 500,000 gallons a day. This one's going to be said 50. It's supposed to be more than that. It's just going to increase. Yeah, I like to see the the numbers on that. We'll get that to you.

Um could I have a question? I have a couple questions. Um, so, so Garrett, the screw press tends to have superior dewatering, drier cakes, lower energy, smaller footprint, lower maintenance, and better odor control. That'd be the belt one. The belt is going to stink. Is there a way to In my opinion, there's no difference in the smell. We're still going to have the same odor control that we're going to have versus a screw pressed belt press. Okay, that's not what my research says, but okay. So there there's no way to mitigate or lessen with charcoal chemicals soundproof you know for the odor and the noise and the noise

will be inside a building and it will be operated just for say 4 hours a day versus 96 hours 24/7. Okay. So, there is one building that you have now that is very close to housing and I don't know how many complaints you're getting about that, but this one because it's noisier and it's I'm just going with my research stinkier. What is your idea to to help the residents not hear the noise? Other than it being inside a building and running during daytime hours, not 24/7. Can we do extra insulation inside the building? Yeah, I mean, if you want to increase, I mean, the cost of the building is going to increase. So, it's already been hand insulated in a metal building. So,

okay. Thank you. And this will be we'll be doing the same thing at the Magnolia. No, not right now. Okay. Possibly in another phase, but currently no. Okay. So, you are wanting to add this to that one over there. Correct. We tried negotiations with the developers over there and they're not. And so when you run the the screw press, run it for 96 hours straight. Is that you is it can you when you begin the process, can you stop it?

We can. It takes up to four hours to get it going again like you stated, shut it down because you can't just shut it down and let it sit. You have to shut it down. You have to hose it down. You got to restart from the beginning and go again. So we could do it that way. But well, I guess what I'm asking is explain the process. Explain the process for people that don't know is what I'm getting. So, basically, they come in in the morning 7:00, they start the press up, it fills up this big, like you saying, this big basin,

packs it in, it takes four hours to guess to get to result, and that the result is not what we want. We have to wait another two hours before we get the changes made at the other side. So, it's just continuous changing until we get it to proper because not every time we process sledge, it's not the same. Sometimes it's dry, sometimes it's wetter. Wasn't that the manufacturer's issue? No, the whenever they came out and did and we were trying to figure out it's a screw press. Belt press is better than screw press. We got some input. We did make some changes, but not the drastic changes that we're going to see with the belt press versus screw press. I

I guess like longterm. So, if we get the bell press on the north plant, I'm just trying to understand the need. So versus every 4 hours getting rid of is it the equivalent amount of sludge that a screw press would give versus the belt press? Correct. So 96 hours it takes us to fill up a 20 yard dumpster which is the little short guys. We can do the same thing with the butt press in four hours. Okay. So basically and as we add on to or we're going to continue to tie into the north one, right? And then so as our population continues, we're going to need to get rid of that faster and more efficiently. Correct. So therefore, you're going to be running 196 hours straight versus

Well, the end goal, so think about it. We're 5,000 500,000 gallons at this plant. This new upgrade is going to be 1.5 right off the bat. So, it's going to take triple that at now at that plant. This one's 750. So, it's already going to exceed the 96 hours that we have done. That's the main goal is to avoid that. And and is there a a ordinance or a law or something that says how fast we have to excavate this specifically? Like why is the the demand there for to get rid of it so fast? I can touch on that. It's a little bit of biology. What they need to do is they have to lower the solids in the tank because the place to go

the more clear water that's where your biology is. That's where the that's where you're taking your samples that you report to TCQ. So they have to do that balance of removing as much, you know, the old sludge as they can to maintain that free space for the other water to work. So it's a constant balancing act. Dewatering is what we're used to. How often are you running the plant or how often are you running the the screw press? Two weeks. You're running it once every two weeks. So 96 hours when we started. So you have 96 hours of an operator every two weeks. So what we're looking for is those numbers of and then you know increasing that by you know

and then you know obviously the justification you know on piece of paper showing what we're spending and just to so that council can look at it you're looking the dewatering process is that can you get a little closer to the mic you're the dewatering process isn't is that where it takes the water that the developers can use or not. It's all in general. So the devel the dewatering process happens during the treatment of the actual Okay. Waste water. It's not where we were running the water down. So when they build these houses, they weren't using our water. Okay. Thank you.

One last question. Out of these two presses, is there another press that we haven't looked at that could be better than these two or more efficient? We looked into a couple of different brands and the two places that we have looked at was is the brand that we were looking at getting is Apple Laval. Um, I think they've changed name since then, but yeah, they have they both have the same one and they've used them for many years and they love them. So, that's kind of we took their recommendation on manufacturer. How many how many people does it take to actually run this plant? Pardon? How many people does it take to run the plant? The 9.

Currently, we have two. We have an open position now that we're uh taking applications on and I'm hoping to request another um operator within the next year or two because of the trip in size for the south plant magnolia plant and then this one coming online just the year the the maintenance daily on the motors and the pumps and everything else is going to be tremendous. So, if we stayed at the current thresholds and we didn't change anything and we had to run this thing, you know, the 92 hours, just changing the plan itself is a full f full-time employee savings by just moving this just just on what's today,

right? And TCQ is eventually going to get to a time where they are requiring requiring wastewater plants to be 24-hour supervised and then water, I'm sure, has funds in their budget to cover this from all the revenue. Correct. Yeah. which is a, you know, so if you're running this every two weeks for 96 hours, how often are you going to have to run the belt press? Um, like Pam was saying, then in her research, it makes makes a lot of noise and smell. How often are you going to have to run this for 4 hours?

Every two weeks or however often we need to. Just depends on the sledge that comes into the plant. It could increase, it could decrease. So I say that two weeks, that's just a very range of, hey, now we're dewatered. That's how the process goes. And now we need to process the SL that we brought in the last two weeks. Okay. So for 4 hours it might be noisy in the middle of the day every two weeks. Yes, ma'am.

Give or take. And it could be less, could be more. Like I said, just depends on the type of SL that we do get or the ser that we get. Can I uh comment on the the odor is uh this product is the if you've been on the tour to the wastewater plant, this particular product that uh we produce is more like play-doh. There is no offensive odor. This is the final product just just for clarity. And Garrett, how long does it take to get the um belt press first to order it and get it? I couldn't tell you that. We haven't actually gone in discussions with that time because this says

because this says if we cancel the screw press, it's $45,000. Correct. So, I just was wondering what has to transpire. That is because of the previous initial go-ahad contract that we initiated. Right. Okay. We can get the lead time. See how long it takes to get it. Yeah, I think that'll be helpful. Thank you. Okay.

Did y'all have any other questions on that? I had one more item as well. Um, so we'll swap over to water, um, and kind of go over some of the improvements that we've been discussing. So, I believe it was last summer, I think, Kimley Horn, they did their presentation on kind of some next level needs for ground storage. Um, and so that was a very very high level overview of what it was, which is a 1 and a half million gallon above ground storage tank at what we call pump station site number two. That was the one that's a little bit closer into town. Um, you know, we're we just wrapped up improvements at y'all's pump station number one, which was a 500,000 above ground gallon uh above ground storage tank. Um and that was funded through the mud and it was funded through them. So this project has been one that the city has been looking at um and it it it follows along with the water master capital improvement plan um that was adopted by the city. And so what we're here to show you because there's a little bit more um that we've been discussing and that's necessary that would come with this ground storage tank. So right now pump station site number two has a buried ground storage tank. This is an above ground one. And so when you start changing how the hydraulic levels work, uh the pumps at pump station site number one do not have a good capability of filling an above ground storage tank. Pumps operate on what we call a curve. And so what they do right now is they just drop below ground into the buried tank. And

so if we start trying to fill an above ground one, that's a difference of about 20 to 25 ft of what we call total dynamic head. And that messes up the pump curves. So right now you have two 1500galon minute pumps at pump station site number one. If we modified them to fill an above ground tank, they would operate at about half that level. it's that drastic. They start to change that much. Now, some of the other capital improvement items that are upcoming and kind of needed per the master plan is pump upgrades in general. So, what we've been looking at because you guys need um if I'm not mistaken, a minimum of about 2700 gallons a minute of firm pumping capacity at each pump station site. because what that does is it reflects your peak daily usage. Um, and that's that's a TCQ item. And so these pumps are kind of forthcoming whether you want them or not. Now, the only reason I'm bringing this up is because at the presentation held last year, pumps were not discussed. It was just the ground storage tank at that time.

And so, we had some more discussions with staff and Kimy Horn and everybody else and saying, well, pumps are kind of needed one way or another. And so what we've done is kind of fine-tuned some more pricing for these pumps. Um, and the biggest item that's going to come with it is electrical needs at both sites. Electrical needs are pretty pricey right now. It's just kind of the name of the game. Seems to be a very big driving costs in several projects that we've been working on lately. Um, and so kind of one of the big ticket items is improving it would be your electrical service from the electrical provider at both sites. On top of that, both sites have backup generators. Um, it's estimated that they will not be large enough to handle new pumps that are brought online. Now, we haven't done a full analysis on the generator, so it's possible something could work, but we're presenting to you kind of some worst case scenario that if the city decides to move forward with improved pumps at both sites, it's very likely you need new generators there as well. So, all that to say, did you pass out the pricing?

You're just full of good news, too. I That's why I didn't want to come to this meeting. I'm just asking with my hand out here. um pump station site number one, which is um it's it's three pump replacements, generator, um electrical. It's about a $1.9 million venture. And pump station site number two, which is the same situation with the pumps with a ground storage tank, is about a $4 million venture. So, yep. Yeah.

Total to get both sites kind of to their next level of planning is about $6 million. And that wasn't in our capital budget. Nope. I don't know. Or was it just the 3,700,000 that was in the capital budget for There you go. the water. I have a couple questions. Yes, ma'am. Um, instead of the elevated tank, I thought we were discussing a second below ground tank. Am I mistaken? We did discuss a second below ground tank. Um, and would that make cost lower because No, those are more expensive.

Oh, a a buried 1.5 million gallon ground storage tank is probably $6 million by itself. Okay. With no pump improvement. My second question is the the storage over on Hubard has two looks like sun lamps that are always on day and night on the curvy areas that go underground. What is that? Is that a heat lamp? What is it? It's probably a heat lamp.

So in the summer and the winter it's just on all the time because if it's 75 or whether it's 30, it's on when I drive by it. off when it's still temperatures. Okay. So, there's you don't turn it off and on per day. You leave it on per season. Correct. Okay. Thank you for that. Um Oh, golly. And so the electric part that's expensive, is that are you talking about the the generator backup or are you talking about like the whole fee to get power there? Both. Okay. Both of them. Yes, ma'am. Are those special electricians that do that?

Um, I mean, they're certified electricians. So, like any of our electricians in town be good for I was just asking. They they we typically want them to have experience in this industry. That's my question. Yes. Yes. Okay. Got it. Thank you. There's Yeah, they got a pretty heavy background in civil public and motors and stuff like that typically. Yes. What is the Now, what was you saying about the two pumps? What are the pumps on the station on on our entry point? The pumps at pump station number one, it's two 1500s, right? Which are fairly new.

They're fairly new. That's correct. And so right now, the way that they were speced out and designed and the the motors in them were installed is they were to fill the below ground storage. So currently, how many pumps do we have on site that are going to the towers that we don't use? They all connect cuz didn't we design that to run how many pumps for the towers? There was more than two. There's two each pump station. There's two back up station that are still connected. Oh, you're talking about the ones inside the building. Yes.

Yeah. Those are those are the old pumps. They I don't think you've taken them down, but they're not in operation. Yeah, it's it was transitioned to the new pump set. Pump station number one, scrap pal, which is our pumps that are pumping. Pump station number two, the one closer to that's the one that fills your tower towers, correct? Is two 1500gallon minute pumps. Did we design that for four? Um I think there's probably some stubouts there for at least one more pump. And those were designed to run at 1,500, right? Mhm. But aren't they capacity for more than that?

So, what we can do, and I think we verified it, is these these pumps have what they call a pump can that's buried in the ground. Those pump cans were contemplated to be a next size level pump. So, what we would do is just take out the old pump and motor, put in the new one, and it is significantly cheaper, which I think is shown on here. So, like if you look at the the line on descriptions, like number two, it says furnish install two, it's 3,000 gallon minute pumps. Um, you know, at a price of 275,000, but then if you look at line item number three, it's furnish install 3,000, but it's almost double the price. So, it's a little confusing. Line item number two contemplates kind of what the mayor is alluding to is that this pump station site had some items that were meant to be immediately upgraded, which is what we'd be using. And so it is kind of a cost-saving venture. You'd only be adding really one new pump in the line. So you're going to have three total. And then the other two, you don't have to tear up the entire world to get to them. You just kind of pull them out of their little casements and then you put in new ones. still a little pricey because they're they're quite large pumps. Um, but it is a lot cheaper. And then the same thing at number one, it had these anticipated improvements uh to kind of help some cost-saving efforts on it. So, we're needing the upgrades on on station one due to if we add the other storage tank.

Correct. And I believe I know I think Holly mentioned it when she did her analysis. Um TCQ does look at those two pump stations. And so pump station number one where you get water from North Texas, it's kind of alluded to as them as a transfer station. Transfer station. So there are some requirements um not typically as stringent as ones that provide direct pressure to the system like your number two. So you have a little bit of some leeway, but pump station number one to still maintain TCQ and even fill up the new one, it does need some improvements on it.

What um what capacity are we running those pumps at on the uh tower side gear out of our So we're now running them at what are they 1500 gallons per minute. So, initially I know um we couldn't even run them that have we upgraded the lines from there to the towers or No, I think what you were running into is because we couldn't run them wide open because we literally blow the line out of the ground. Yeah. So, when you're moving water from pump station number one to pump station number two, I'm not talking about there. I'm talking about to the tower.

To the tower. To the tower. Um, I don't I think y'all are operating them fine. Maybe Garrett can answer a little bit more. So, initially when we installed those pumps, we only have the 8 in going from there to there. That was prior to the 18 in being installed from ground storage, ground storage to the new one. So, we have What I'm getting at is when we initially put those ground storage in, we could only run them at about 50%. 1200. Uh yeah, I thought it was CO because we couldn't push the water to the tower any faster or we would the water our lines couldn't. So we've upgraded that to the tower, correct? Is what I'm asking. Yes, sir. Okay. And what is the new water line that we upgraded? What is the rated capacity?

That's an 18 in. Um how many gallons per minute can we head pressure at that? I think we said it can do like 7,000 gallons a minute. So, if we were today to add the other ground storage on the ground, all of our infrastructure, all of our new pumps, all of them flipped on 100% the 18inch can handle it. Correct. That's the intent of it. Yes, it can or it can't. Is that going to be the next upgrade? What I'm getting at is from there to the tower, we're ready. That's correct. And that's without

but that doesn't mean that is that going to be designed for that if we add another you know aerial storage tank is that are we intending on feeding from that? What is the water infrastructure design look like? Is it coming from there to feed the new tower or are we going to have another so far station?

So when it leaves number two, the one closest to town, it's an 18inch line to the tower on Sebastian and then it turns into a 16-in line that runs through Waverly and it goes to the tower on Magnolia. And then Dr. Horton did another 16-inch line extension to Wildflower where the other tank is going to be. So you have an 18-inch line and then you got 16in that'll start connecting all of your towers. And at that point, your system is branched in several directions. So, it's no longer just one single feed maintaining all of those volumes and flow rates. And what do our numbers show when we're needing this upgrade? I think they were needing now, I think, is the the question,

but doing these improvements to get you to 2029. So, you'll have a couple of years before you need your next storage. And how much have we gotten from development anything on these? Is there any They have expressed interest in partnering with it though. Who? Dear Horton has. Oh well, of course. Well, no, no, no. Okay, that's mistaken. You guys had some wording in the agreements with Morningside and Morgan Farms where they were paying capital. So, we recently received the the last payment from Morgan Farms, which is 1.3 million. That was half they previously played the other part. We also the way the bonds are structured there is some flexibility. Uh we had

so you just not you just said $1.3 million is it is it designated for anything at the utilities. So that $1.3 million right now can be applied to these improvements. Yes. Yes. I did not include it on the budget because we never know exactly when we're going to receive it. It depends on how fast development moves.

Is that the last one from them? So we also have in the bonds uh we put 600,000 for water and 600,000 for wastewater that was unspecified because these things do come up. Um so that's available and then my last suggestion to kind of finish covering up um the rest of it is you have 3.7 million for drainage projects and we had three drainage projects. Um I would suggest and it's up to you entirely how you want to do this. Um there were three projects. One was about 650,000ish. Um there was another one that was similar to that and then um well maybe it was a little bit less. The big one was 2.5. I would suggest for 637 that drainage project which is over by High Meadow area. I'd suggest you do that one. We prioritize it and I would put the others on the back burner for now. I still think you'll have enough money to do the smaller one, but I I think for now and then I think we hold off on the bigger one. Um what's that intersection there? Uh the one that always floods that when we have a super high rain.

What is it? 642 where we occasionally shut down the road. Okay. I would suggest you wait on that and then apply the funds here. So the the one we get the most complaints on is is the one crossing 637. So I think we do that. We have enough money. We hold off on the others. If we can afford it, we do that smaller the next smaller one. And if we get to the third one, great. If we can afford it. If not, we hold off for maybe a year. So, how far where are we at on the process of planning on our ground storage or the any of this? Um, to date, we've reached out to vendors to get some comparable pricing so that we could present it to you. And that's

because we're a year on construction time on a project like this. That's about right. And you say 2029. So we're a year out. Um then we plan and we're you know we start construction in 2027 is I mean what are we looking at? How fast are we starting construction if all this is the above ground's a little bit faster but I'll let you answer that. Yeah. I would say you could probably be in construction by the end of this year. Huh. for so and then we're six eight months until it's operational uh like you said it's about a year construction. Okay. So we're a year. So at the end of this year so

at the end 26 so we start or the end of 26 we start construction the end of 26 going into 27 we're operational and then in 2029 we're needing And if you are those plans on the book, are we looking at that? So, we put money aside for the tank itself and I think some of the pump, but not enough to cover. Um, correct. Right. So, that's why we were suggesting we use the 1.2 cuz we that's not

we didn't count on that coming in this year because we never knew. And then we have the 1.2 that was in the bonds. That's kind of for flexible utilities, whatever we might need. and then um pull a little bit from those drainage projects. Just prioritize them. I think we'll still do them all. We just we put one first and we hold off on the others until we know that we've taken care of this situation.

29 if we're if we're this operational based upon the current growth pattern. So if that accelerates or slows down that can move. Yeah, that it can move just depending on how fast or how slow development is going. Um, but from my understanding, the numbers that we have, we're still pretty on par with what we were expecting. We start on the next phase in 2028 to be able to cover the demand. I think that's the next conversation. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the that's kind of what's to be expected with with a growing city, but I just want to make I don't um

so the the first ground store where where we take where our intake is as far as TCQ, um realistically those pumps could stay as they are. They're not, you know, if it was an emergency, they're not going to feed what we need, but it would be similar to what we had in the past. You know, they run run run and fill up what you got, and then you watch your tanks outrun everything you got.

If if council elected to only do the ground storage tank that had been previously kind of budgeted for, there are ways to make your system continue to function. You know, we would continue filling the buried one. you could put what we call almost like a it's like a temporary transfer pump that would be moving it from the bottom one to the top one and then you could pump out of that one. Um so there are definite costsaving measures if you were looking to kind of scale back on some of this. Um but I think the the holistic package is just kind of the next item on the capital improvement plan to maintain y'all's TCQ and what y'all need. And so that's what's presented to you today. But if you want to look at other options, there's definitely that, too.

So, whatever you're presenting, the stuff that we're going to buy or let's say if we went with with your conditions, right? Out of that stuff that we the pumps and the material that we're getting, can well, is is that like a full replacement in a year after once we have that up and running or we get any I don't think there'll be any modifications to that. That's that's my thing. My No, you'd be adding on to You wouldn't be replacing anything. Nothing is going to be a throwaway cost. So that's what you're meaning.

And I think just to keep in mind too is that the end goal here like with this ground storage tank is we had proposed a steel bolted tank so that it could be moved. So, the pump station 2 site eventually being decommissioned, preferably went before that 2029 expansion has to happen and moving it to either the pump station one site or a new site where you're just having one big pump station site where that's where all of your improvements are instead of having two sites where you're doing these pump improvements and ground storage make improvements at two sites. Got it. Thank you.

I need one a little bit of clarification. This is going quick. Are we talking three storage tanks or just two? We have one and two already. You have two ground storage tanks at pump station site number one, right? And you have one at number two. And we're going to get another add another one. That's what I thought. That's what I thought. Just you have you have two ground storage tanks at both sites. So fixing this one and two up. That's great. And we're still going to have to do number three. No. Well, not right now. Not right now.

Yeah. No. And 1.5 million gallons of ground storage is a lot that we're adding. Like it to have to What upgrades are we needing in 29? Because that's a massive amount of growth. Are we talking in 29 we need an aerial tank? Because um so we had just talked about ground storage when we presented back in June, I think. So that's all I have right now. Ground storage is cheaper, right? Yeah. So in 2029 Oh, that's when you're estimating a decommissioning or something. Yeah. A centralized pump station.

Yeah. Yeah. So you have recent completion of the.5 million gallon and then adding the 1.5 in 2026, then adding the 4 million gallon at the new pump station. So, it's basically moving everything, but you'll still need some additional capacity. So, that your total ground storage would be 5.5. So, what do you mean decommission? Well, you're you just you're not using it. Not using what? Which one?

On station two. So part of the conversation in the water master plan was you can't we had originally looked at trying to decommission pump station one and just doing it at two because it's a bigger site and there's more room for you to expand there but because of the topography they North Texas can't send that water over it's too far so decommissioning at one or decommissioning two and just having one kind of saves the the maintenance and cost. So, we're just we're going to So, we're going to decommission number two completely. Take it offline. Yes. The one over here?

Yes. And then what is taking its place again? You're just going to use pump station one. So, that's the discussion with the current ground storage we have there. No. So, like the steel bolted tank going into Okay. The 1.5 million gallons will go from there to there. Correct. So, why aren't we putting the 1.5 million gallons there? Now, I believe the need is at two right now. Why don't we eliminate two now? Am I missing something? We can't fit that 1.5 at pump site number one right now. Why not? How are we going to fit it there in 29? How are we going to get it over there?

That's part of like the one of the other items on here is purchasing more property. Why aren't we looking at purchasing property now and putting 1.5 million gallon tank over there and taking station 2 offline? Does it not sound more feasible to do that now than not spend $3 million in 2029 moving everything? I mean, tell me if I sound stupid, but it sounds logical to me. Yeah, I was going to say I think the the intent of a centralized pump station was to try to actually move it from pump station site number one a little bit further towards the east. The ridge is over there by the school. And

I think that's the direction we need to be working. I think we're going the wrong way. I think we need to be doing that now. Trying to secure land over there. Trying to get that done. Yeah, that's the direction we should be heading and not sure spending money on station two staff. And anybody got anything to say on that or I'm not trying to uh it's beyond my expertise as far as the engineering part. Yeah. And I think a little bit was revolving around timing. So with this kind of shift from two pump station sites to one. Um,

well, I will say on timing and we've we're Garrett can attest, Kurt can attest. I've been up here at 3:00 in the morning running a skater manually with these guys. So, um, it can be done. Sure. Um, you just got to run it manually. What I'm saying is I think we have the time. We have the time to get this done.

Okay. I'm not trying to put our water department in a situation where he's up here at 3:00 in the morning, don't get me wrong. And you know, if y'all go back and recess this as staff and come back and say, "Hey, we need to do this. We can't do it." Then, you know, come back and talk to us. But it seems like a lot of wasted money. Yeah, sure. So you want to more focus on kind of combining this needed capital item and the next one into a centralized pump station site and actually put more effort in moving. That's the direction we're going to go in 29. I want to do meet the needs in 29. Okay.

So the only thing I was going to say is it just it's going to take coordination because we got to get North Texas because that's where they currently receive water. So there's just some steps, but we can start those conversations, kind of see what comes up, and then we'll come back and present something to you guys on feasibility and how that's going to work and go from there. Cuz if we can open the tap on the this and by 28, I'm pretty sure we can try survive 26 and 27. If we can open the taps and taking that one offline and 28, we've completed our 29 project, now we're looking at 32 and 33 project. Okay. So, how how do the numbers look for 28? What do you mean?

Are we going to make it to 29 is what I'm saying. Do we do we need it by 28 as far as something additional some additional comp? I think at this point you're going to be working on how good Garrett is of an operator, which I think he's great. All righty. That's that's it's that's when we're getting into like, hey, just by kind of TCQ and numbers and stuff, you know, I mean, and it ultimately it's not going to save us it's what it's going to save us is wasted

$1.9 million on the pumps right at station one. It's not going to save us the tank. Um but it's we're going to have to upgrade the pumps at that station and whatever 29 is to to get the water down. Mhm. So, I mean, we're going to have to buy land so this money can start being applied to buying some land or trying to figure out how where we're going to put it. 29 or 28. I'm sure then the growth has slowed from your projections. I'm sure those projections are not equal in what we're seeing now. They I feasibly can't see that. Uh we have them. We've received them from the developer. So, um, do you

Yeah, they can in front of me, but I know Horton has keep prolonging. So, my suggestion, not to speak for the whole council, but I'm just speaking. My suggestion is come back with that. Can we make it through a project timeline to to do that instead? Okay. Yeah, we'll talk and we'll bring something back to you guys pretty rapidly after that. Any other questions? Okay.

I have one question about the um above storage tank down load some dub 1777 area down there. Um, I drove by there yesterday and I don't know if it's cosmetic or structural, but not the front side on 1777, but the back side definitely has a seam, which makes sense, but it's visible from the street, which is kind of unusual in my mind. And then there's a Y. And I don't know if the Y seam at the bottom of the tank is something that should not be there cuz it's only on that side on that one tank. It looks unusual to me. You're talking about the elevator tower by

17. Yeah. So, I don't know if you could go down on some dub on your way out of here. Just take a look and see if it's cosmetic or nothing or Okay. It just looked weird to me yesterday cuz I was over there yesterday. Okay. Yeah, we'll take a look. Thank you. I know we usually do y'all do annual take inspections. We just have the annual we those tanks are it's required by TCQ that we do an inspection interior and exterior every year of all of our ground storage and elevated. And I believe that was just completed in October. Well, that's good. If if the neighbors haven't complained, that's good. But I drove down the street and I looked up and I said that looks unusual to me. Like it's not normal. But maybe it's just me as an unexperienced lay person.

We can check it out. We'll check it. That's easy. I'm going say we take a five minute recess. Anybody needs to go to the restroom? On that note. So, thank you. 5 to 10 minutes. Thank you.

boiling water. Boiling water for coffee. Tea. Oh,

yeah. That's fine. Okay. Let me What we have left? So, what are we having for dinner?

We ain't got much love. I know Kirk was cooking with steaks last night. There you go. Oh, burgers. I'm be quiet so we can get done. station.

Sorry, somebody hit my sister. I'm okay. I mean, if you need to go You know, we spend an hour up here Monday night.

So, where we at? Uh, where we at? Uh Garrett's going to speak about the splash pad. We've had some requests for it to open up a little bit sooner um during the year because, you know, we start to get some warm weather and then sometimes they want to keep it open a little bit later in the season, but it does get into some operational costs. So, I'm going to let Garrett address that. Um this is just up for discussion. It's been brought to my attention that

some folks would like it open longer. Um I've given other surrounding cities, there's some that do the same, some that don't. um they're requesting a little bit longer. So, just something for y'all to discuss. Um it will incur chemical costs, electricity costs over time, but that's totally up to y'all.

You know, it's funny cuz that's actually what I wrote on this. I didn't even know that's what you're going to ask. But the the the only thing I was going to ask was basically it looks like they're most of the surrounding areas are open about 6 weeks longer um than what we're open currently. So to kind of match what everybody else is doing kind of May 1st to the end of September, it's about a six weeks increase. What would the cost be for the city to operate it for an additional six weeks? I think that's what I would want to understand.

And the overtime I can't really say for that because it's, you know, randomly, hey, the pumps ain't working. Hey, it is or right. Right. But I mean just just average weekly operation type. So it' be just that time six six weeks total or Yeah. So basically that would take it from May 1st to the end of September which is what's consistent with what it looks like everybody else was doing. I mean some people were running to the end of October but yeah I think everything was looking from May 1st to September 30th. Yeah. Okay.

There's going to be very limited use in that extra just So you are aware, the water's going to be too cold most of the most of the days. And then if you have a two days where it's warm, your water is only going to be as warm as your low temperature at night. So if your lows are that's why it's said on those parameters. If your lows are still in the 60s at night, your water's typically is going to be in the in the 60s to the very low 70s max. So it's cold. That's cold. If you're outside, part of that, too, is the school. Yeah. They go back in. Yeah. The splash park though, you're you're looking at kids that typically aren't in school that would be using it during that time period. I mean, it gets a lot of use. I mean, if we can open it a week earlier and they can fully use it, I'm all for it. But

yeah, I think we just need to understand the cost and then decision. Yeah. Who is this planning?

Uh, planning's coming up. Kirk and Miguel. Honorable mayor, members of the council, Miguel Klan, city planner for the record. Um, it's I'm coming up on a year, you know, serving this community. It's been a great honor so far. Um, and you know, we want to talk about some of the key objectives over the next 18 months. There were some of those bullet points there. Um, but you know, ideally, yes, um, we want to take a more active role in economic development. Um we're obtaining a greater interest in retail and mixeduse development uh within our city and within our ETJ. Um long term the goal would be to uh potentially negotiate development agreements to receive voluntary annexations so that we get more control you know over um what happens in in these developments as well as the u sales and property tax revenue associated with them. um you know supporting the municipal development district. We've had a great batch of applicants that and you'll be seeing their um applications um and updated responses to some questions from council members that were circulated um past couple of days. Um so we believe we have a great uh set of candidates that you can choose from to establish this this board. Um, we also want to start establishing once we have that board a an economic development strategy as to what type of businesses we we want to pursue. We know the grocery store is the top priority and and restaurants, but beyond that, what are the long-term goals that we as a city want, like if we're going to start pursuing employment centers or or specific employers, what industries do we want to pursue? You know, the the outer loop is going to be that opportunity that's going to bring the growth. the uh task for the next you know foreseeable future is prepare for

that growth so that we can shape it instead of it shaping our community uh whether it's in the city or ETJ um and we want to market ourselves out there to do some aggressive recruitment of these um businesses that that we want to attract to our community. We have several um existing um or ongoing projects. Our our UDC update which um or or UDC adoption, right? It's just combining the zoning and subdivision ordinance into one unified book. Uh there will be likely additional updates to the code to fill in some gaps. Uh we're also working with UTD on the fee schedule and and that project um is going to be relatively affordable and really high quality from what I've seen so far. uh working with UTA on the downtown plan um um potentially doing a master thorougher plan in-house um just recently I was reminded of an opportunity to work with UT Dallas on what's called the policy lab and what what this project does is a cross-disciplinary uh research project um that takes from uh public affairs criminology GIS and economic development to make policy recommendations ations. Um earlier in um couple of months ago when this was first brought up, uh police department and and city administrator and myself, we had brainstorm whether they could help us, you know, address some of the challenges that the city has encountered with the muds and things like that. So that could support the uh project that was discussed at the very beginning regarding, you know, state, you know, legislation recommendations that we as a city could make. So that's that that's something we can bring up later. Um, as Dr. Sardo and Council Member Richway can attest, you know, we we're trying to establish and and enhance the relationships we have with our regional partners. So, Text, Hunt County, Colin

County, uh, even the school district to to some extent um to ensure that we are taken into heavy consideration in their regional plans. So, we're we're kind of orphaned because we're at the border of the two counties. So, um, we have to show them that we're going to be relevant with especially with the outer loop and that we deserve a seat at the table as well when making these, uh, long-term planning decisions that affect us as well. Um, in long term also, we want to pursue uh, external funding opportunities for some of the planning implementing the plans that we have because you know having the plans is one thing but implementing them is another task of of our division that we have to to do. um as well as looking at, you know, long-term economic development and infrastructure projects that could help support the growth that's coming to be able to say, "Hey, you know, we want you to come. Here's what we can offer terms of infrastructure improvements and incentives down down down the road. Um, and finally, uh, the GIS system doing it in house. So, right now, we rely on Kimley Horn and they've done a wonderful job throughout this the time I've been here. However, uh we believe that um with training uh and and also just having staff, we'll be able to do a lot more and better serve our community, our prospective developers because that is the first thing somebody looks at. It's is our website, our GIS. So we need to um enhance our GIS capabilities inhouse and update our website for planning and economic development so that we uh project a better uh image that you know we're I I constantly say this you know our community is going to be large whether it's in the city andor ETJ uh the time to act like a larger city is now. We we we as a community cannot afford to wait until the problems are here to prepare for the problems, you know, and and when I say problems, I

mean the growing pains, the infrastructure challenges, the zoning cases. It's better to plan ahead earlier on. Any questions? I have a question on the GIS. Yes. is would this be a matter of getting our own software and downloading data from um the tax entities or

so we already have our within our budget and our continuously we pay for the GIS licensing to ESRI u we have general control over it however I don't have the expertise to not yet there's free training options that I just recently made aware of through our subscription so I could learn the entire system within six months Um, but I would need help to even do more stuff. So, our ASP builds for subdivision plans like that are already on on the ground. Uh, that's highly requested often from prospective developers. Hey, you know, how am I going to be able to tie into your system and that also tells them what kind of improvements they're going to need to make. So if they realize, oh, we might need to do a lift station based on the type of development we want to do or if we need, you know, additional improvements, that helps them plan as well. And us understand too, okay, you're going to bring this, what are you going to offer, you know, in terms of infrastructure improvements. Um, you know, typic just like Morgan Farms and Morningside, the team did a great job negotiating, you know, the the funds that are going to, you know, help our improvements beyond what the impact that they created really.

So, with the ER or ESRI data, there would still be something in addition to that that we would have to tap to get their information in. No, I mean, we already have everything we need. We just need the how to use it. Yeah, we need a person really to to be able to do those day-to-day things that take most of my day that I I know a entry level or mid-level can handle that gives me the opportunity to focus on the larger strategic priorities and and economic development really because I think that's where our next step

is that part of what we bought with the that spreadsheet the $20,000 what a couple years ago when I was on council But does that tie into that?

No. Um that was one to kind of show I know there was a um nobody seemed to like density very much. So part of that was to kind of show the pros and cons of you know accepting density or not accepting density or um early early planning about if we're going to have it where do you want it? And then there was a fiscal um I forgotten what they called it, kind of a calculator that showed the impact of every development on a on a financial level. It gets complicated because you can do it 10 different ways depending on if the they're looking for sometimes incentives. So you can throw in an incentive. Uh sometimes they're looking for, you know, they want infrastructure. So we kind of got to figure that cost in there. But it's kind of a calculator and you can look at different scenarios.

But we're not using it at all. I haven't needed it at this time, but I mean, we can start using it. There's no reason why we can't. Um, most of the developers will come in and they've got their own numbers, but we're going to need to we verify those. You know, we just don't take them at face value, unlike like TCQ takes everything at face value. So, uh, we'll have our financial folks and probably our, you know, if it's an incentive type thing where somebody's wanting a rebate back on sales tax or property tax, we would, um, we might use that calculator for initial, but we're still going to have our our financial experts look at that long term. You know, how does it affect us in 5 years or 10 years? is if we do a a rebate back to get some of the some of this development. Say I don't like a lot of rebates, but if it's something you really really wanted like the grocery store, that one I think you maybe would be more willing to um accommodate, but I wouldn't do it forever. So, you know, maybe you do it for 5 years or 10 years, but you don't do it on a forever basis. So that's kind of what that calculator was is to kind of figure various scenarios and you can just plug in the numbers and you know I can lay out three or four of them and we can kind of look at those. That's what that was.

Okay. So you know you know how to use it. I I mean it's it's just a plugin. That's all it is. It's just a spreadsheet that the numbers change. Um I can provide it to Miguel. Okay.

Um typically those developers are going to come in with their own numbers. So we can plug theirs in and then we can try two or three different scenarios and say, you know, we like this one's better for us and but we'll take a little bit of yours, too. So it's just kind of playing with different scenarios and and it is a high overview. you know, when you get down to the nitty-gritty and you figure those longer term costs, um, rebate sums really good sometimes, but if you look at I mean, we have sales tax to help us not have so much property tax sometimes. So, we don't want to give it all away. So, we just kind of want to be careful about do we do it for five years, do we do it for 10 years, what level do we we do it at, things like that.

So, this really wouldn't be buying new software. This would just be using what we already have. Using what we already have, maximizing maximizing existing resources that we have to better serve our community and our prospective developers. Thanks. But but GIS is its own um it's its own thing. I mean, it's part of planning, but they're they're professionals that are just GIS. So, if we could get somebody that could do that and then perhaps help him with some other projects, that would be fantastic. a dual role was ideally the the vision to to do GIS work and planning work. All right, let's thank you.

Just a reminder, we're pushing three and a half hours. I don't want people to lose train of thought, but let's just try to, you know, if we can write a question down moving forward or something, let's do it. So, we Okay. So, um I'm going to let the department heads finish. We'll keep the time in mind. Um, keep in mind that um, we know we heard you when you said no no no tax rate increase, but uh, keep in mind that our survey was just to get the initial thoughts from staff. So, it doesn't mean that we're going to push you hard to do all of these positions. U, we'll obviously have to prioritize, but we did want you to hear the the state of things and anticipated needs from each department. So, I'll have them go over it, but kind of quickly.

Okay. All right, I'm first up and in the interest of time savings, I handed you guys out each information. You can review on your own time. Send me emails if you have questions.

Uh I just wanted to quickly say, you know, things have changed so much since I started. When I started six years ago, it was simple. The work load has increased significantly. Um there are several things that are on my to-do list that I don't have time to do. My ask is for an accounting manager and a procurement specialist. A procurement specialist, what that does is it controls spending, centralizes it, reigns in on the budget instead of everybody doing their own thing and helps manage some of these bigger projects as well. Um, as far as

procurement law, following everything to the letter with Texas. Um, I won't get into everything. Uh, uh, this morning, David or earlier today, David kind of went over the tax and budget things that are being presented to legislation. You have some information in your handouts if you have any questions. Um, planning calendar that's in there. Again, August, heavy emphasis on meetings and being here. And I think that's it. Some of the things that need to be addressed, analysis, review, budget control, separation of duties, those are all really high level important things when we are talking about the finance world and what I am capable of doing all by myself versus with a couple people added to the team.

So my recommendations council take this come back to the next work session with questions. for and again we may add some things to the survey to just get your thoughts on them as well. Not trying to rush people through but I mean we were going to pick a April work session at the next meeting versus today or if you want to pick it today. I think we're working on that at the very end. Okay. We're going to try to pick another one. Thank you. Oh, you can sit down. You don't need nothing. Quit. You said you didn't need nothing. Why you going to stand? Uh I don't think that came out.

Uh thank you, Mayor Council. Uh real quick, uh some of the stuff that I wanted to look at that I believe that we're going to be able to do out of this budget. It's uh we are wanting to implement like four flock cameras at each main entrance. Uh there is a grant right now that we can apply for where they pay for 80% of it. We pay for 20% of it. So, our cost would be $2,400. Uh, I think it's also I think, like I said, I think we can do something with the budget of this year to get that done. Uh, and then maybe if that works out better, add more cameras as we go. I I do think we need to look at it with these new subdivisions coming in that that that a lot of these cities are requiring them to do that uh at their cost and where we could have more cameras around town uh not to watch people but if we have a

Sure. Yeah. You're going to catch a lot of flack over this. You know that, right? Yeah. I mean serious cattle mills just took some Yeah. They're they're still taking it.

Yeah. And Leavon's taking some. But uh I know of one case where a where an Arlington officer got hit uh and killed on uh I think it was 820 and they had a partial description of the vehicle and they were able to put that information in there and pin it down and was able to catch that person that murdered him on the highway. So if there's a big event or something in the city park, uh we would have a lot better chance of being able to to find out what vehicle were coming in and out. So eventually, I think there's like nine or 10. At one time, I figured out uh entrance and exits from Josephine. Uh but like I said, starting at the main streets of six on each end and and 1777 and and uh 547, I think we could get a lot that way. Uh, and like I said, all all we need right now is just a a sometime this in the near future, we just need a prop proclamation from the the council and we could go ahead and and uh put in for that grant. And Billy's told me that the only people are that are not getting approved for the grant are the people that does not uh they don't submit the paperwork that resolution before we put in the grant or apply with the grant

and the grant starts on March 8th. ends in April. So, we'll need it next.

Does anybody here have any questions about flock cameras? I have no idea what it is.

Okay. Flock camera is a LPR system and what it is, it's a it's a camera and as a vehicle drives by a camera, it just takes a still image of the license plate reader and or numbers, but it's specifically takes a picture of a license plate that is in public view. keywords public view. And the only access that a law enforcement officer has is just to those images. And all it does, it shows the license plate. It shows the description of the vehicle and and where it was scanned. So, law enforcement or other people, cuz I specifically work with this software daily, and it is a tremendous asset. It doesn't give me any information about who the vehicle is registered to, um, specifically where it's headed. It is a captured image of where this vehicle had crossed a specific camera wherever it is located at a specific time. Other than that, that's really what it is. Uh a license plates or public information. I know people worry about like, hey, the government is infringing on our rights. And hey, if if the government wanted to find you, you have a device that's in your hands that it can find you real time, whether you're in a third story building on on a bed and we're we're we're just going to know where you're at. So, you know, the technology exists. This is not what this is implemented for. This has also helped count saved multiple um multiple people like you can save trafficking of persons uh people who you know or um who have you know your elderly folks or people who have mental issues who've wandered off and have driven these camera systems or also being used to find people to help save people's lives and locate them. Um so I'm a fan of them. Um I think they're a great tool, great asset. Um, so I mean, Chief, you're going to catch some flack for it, mayor. You will, too.

But they're they're great stuff and and every it's just something that it's going to be part of technology because it's just a normal thing. It's just something that people that the citizens are going to get have to use to. You're monitored on the tollways. You're monitored everywhere. And a lot of y'all don't even know it, but it's just part of it. And these understand that these access are they're being used for a an investigative purpose. There's no intent where someone or law enforcement officer goes, "Hey, I just want to look where my ex-wife or whatever nefarious reasons." No, you have to have a reason why. It has to have an investigative purpose why you're accessing this information. So, it's just not a free-for-all, do whatever, and no accountability. There is 100% accountability for every transaction that you take place using the software. And it tells you uh if if the car is stolen, it'll tell you if there's sometimes it'll tell you if there's a wanted person in it. We had a murder in Farmersville. uh the vehicle hit by Bies in Roy City going eastbound on I30 and we had him in custody within two hours because of that because we had people set up ahead uh almost in Tex Arcana and he's had it in his information in that vehicle and scanned it and so we had we not had that we would not have got him in custody within two hours of the murder.

Chief, does it actually send a notification if a a wanted license plate goes through? And we and we used a test one out here last year and there was we we were scanning 8,000 cars a day on FM6 and it kind of helped you know other departments too to see okay anything that's on the license

uh we would like to to look in at at possibly uh this next budget. I think we can save some money because we're getting pretty good on the squad cars uh with the fleet that we have. We still do have two admin cars that I talked about earlier that that was in this budget that we haven't been able uh at least has kind of got me on hold with that right now with those two purchases. But after we get those two purchases and the two that's been ordered, the squad cars, uh I think we can probably go a year without ordering two squad cars. Uh but so we want to look at maybe some uh getting a drone uh that I think Alice would be able to help us a lot get that implemented. Uh I think Billy said that would probably to get off the ground for this next year's budget would be about 20,000. You said

some 10 to 20,000 and that would be a drone that could do search and rescue maybe interior search if we didn't want to stick our hands in somewhere we'd want to send a drone in. would be kind of a dual use and they run about 40 minutes per battery change. I'm also a fan of the drones that are tethered, but we're looking at 40 or 50,000. I know that's the biggest, but like when we have our big events for the 4th of July, you tether one up. It would run the whole time you have someone watching, you know, perimeter areas and things like that where we may have couple people throw stuff like that watch better. So, but at first we're looking at the 10,000.

Can you please include the the the training cost alignment for the remote pilot licenses? Yes.

Yeah. I think we were looking at two people to get uh license for that that could run it. And then uh as far as personnel, y'all's handout showed that we're servicing about almost 17,000 people right now. Uh we're not even meeting the one officer per thousand if that is good information. Uh we also had that one position. We had one that was approved this last year and Lisa's put me on hold for that. And if we get that one position filled, uh we could have right now if no one calls in sick or anything like that, we could have one sergeant and two officers uh on patrol. But right now, with that one position being unfilled since October, we only have on daytime, we have one roving during the week. Uh so we don't have a full-time sergeant and two officers on days, but we do on on nights. And so what I'm asking for is for two more additional patrol officers where we can have three officers at night uh with one sergeant. Uh we had an incident just the other night where the officers had to fight some people in the front yard and it we had they had to wait for the county uh to come before they could clear the house because there was other people in the house also. So, if somebody takes off or is sick or whatever, we're we're having to run uh with two people at night time and we're on the far edge corner out here. Uh so, I'd like to request for two officers and then for one investigator. Right now, we have one investigator only and he's doing investigations. He's doing the evidence room. He's doing public relations. uh and he's carrying about 30 cases right now this month. Uh so just

to help with that and then we as we get bigger I think we're going to need uh a captain to be over uh or an assistant chief to to help with that. So the that's the four people I'm asking for in this next budget year is is is a captain or assistant chief, one investigator and two officers. But as far as the pay and uh we Colin County has set uh the pay scale and that's where our competition is Colin County and nearly every department in Colin County is over over 104,000 a year is a top out pay. Uh I think Rock Walls over 104. Our top out is at 86 a little over 86,000. I I can't get the quality of people that I need to even apply uh for that price. Uh I'm I'm I'm always going to have a turnover high turnover rate in due to facts that right there uh that that these people are coming in. We did get the uh we got the uh FTO pay and and bilingual pay, but we've I'm still pushing for the for the lateral pay and for the uh certificate pay for intermediate, advance, and uh the masters. But some of these departments are bringing people in on these laterals at 85,000 a year and and I we just can't compete with that. And I really think that the top outs really needs to be looked at very closely this year and those certificate pay and lateral pay. Uh and like I said, we can save some money with not having to purchase two cars this year. Uh but that's what I what I have. If y'all have any questions or anything,

how how many quality candidates have applied and then pulled their application due to lack of a staff program or or a lateral pay?

Well, I don't they never really say why why they're pulling it, but uh but I just know that when we have an opening, we maybe get possibly three people to apply. Uh, and it's it's we don't we don't get the cream of the crop when they come in and apply. You know, if if sometimes we luck out, we get somebody fresh out of the academy. This last one I hired was fresh out of the academy. Uh, but it's been difficult to get good applicants and then to be able to retain them. The ones we do get and we hire, they're here a year and they're already leaving and going somewhere else. stepping stone that or

get them back in it and or you got to get rid of I wouldn't even mind if I know right like right now we have seven steps I know plano can top out at 114 in three three years but even if we went to a little bit longer step plan to where it would show that that top out I I would be okay with that even though we have like I said we have the seven-year step right now. Uh but if it even if it went to a 10ear step to get it where we can say, "Hey, this is what we have," you know, I think that would help.

I have a question. Um is it possible that Shannon might be able to do a little three or four question survey to the people that don't want to be hired for whatever reason to find out what those reasons are if they're not letting you know? They're not going to be truthful to HR versus the chief. Okay. No, they're not going to be truthful. You usually the people that don't get hired u is because I've scratched them, you know, that then and said, "Hey, uh you're not going to Usually if if they're if they're wanting to come here, they're going to get hired unless I say, "Hey, we're not we're not doing that." Thank you. Thank you. Why are they coming?

Well, I'll just piggyback off on some of that too because also like a lot of the recruitments out there, they easily state that. Sorry. They easily state that they offer laterals too and that is that's a big thing. Laterals like as Chief's asking for and that's a big thing that will capture. Is Leavonne doing it now? Did I see they're doing it now? Leavon is doing it now. I did see that. I think Leavon's doing lateral work that I I think to to pick Leavon started

and I want to speak about half agency but it is a thing too like every department is is hurting everyone and a lot of officers experienced or not experienced are are not even going to want to even entertain another agency if they want to even look at laterals you know and if you don't want this also this our agency to be a stepping stone for somewhere else because you want your officers to stay and what incentives do you have as far as retention to you know I mean it's it's a costly to send someone to an academy put them through FTO and when you're putting them through FTO that's two people you're absorbing right and then so and then overtime that comes with that for reports and so that's you you really don't get full potential out of that officer for one whole year

and I can talk to sorry go ahead so you know you've got to have incentives to retain everyone not only your police your fire and your city employees. And that's something that maybe hopefully we can come to ahead to amongst ourselves as far as what incentives we can offer long term to help retain and keep our people because it's expensive to have a revolving door it no matter where it's at. I can talk to Chief offline about this. I was just curious if we hired them from the academy with no experience. Um, can we make them do like a contract for a period of time? You can't do that. But you can't really hold them. I see.

Yeah. Even if you sent them and paid for their academy, you can say, "Hey, you got to do X amount of Z." And then they can just say, "Okay." And then leave and go somewhere else and then you would have to sue them. So, well, I've seen the other thing. Of course, corporate's different than municipal, but in the corporate world, if you you get a certain bonus if you if you're there for six months, you get a certain bonus if you're there for two years, you know. So, now hold the car down. Longevity pay. So, they're doing incentive programs now where they're hiring many positions that are in all cities are struggling to retain people. They're giving a $3,000 incentive or a 5,000 a sign on bonus. Yeah.

Yeah. City just a lot of cities are some are doing it. I mean a lot everybody was doing it in CO but which is only legal if it's approved in the budget. Correct. Correct. So maybe that's something we can entertain too in the next budget meeting.

Your step plan which you're proposing and I think that's something great too because say if an officer does we don't want to lose an officer or to wherever because let's say XYZ is paying $5,000 more a year. We want them to say, "Hey, if I stick it out one more year, I can meet that or if I stick it out two more years, I'll be at that step plan." Because it's jumping agencies, whether it's fire department or anywhere else, the the background, the process, the interview, it is timeconuming and nobody really wants to go through that unless it is completely beneficial for them. But in in such a vast disparity as far as moneywise, but nobody wants to go through that. So say, "Hey, I can just hold on for one more year or two more years. I'm better off the retirement wise and I'm better off because I know where I'm at. I know the people that I work with better the devil I know than I don't. So I'm going to stick around for one more year and I'm going to hit that mark." You know, there's something to look forward to. So incentives, laterals.

I reached out to the other 6,200 people and they they don't have any businesses at all and they're out,000. They're also rich. They have $ 1.5 million homes. That's going to be hard to hit since Joseph being 100. Come on now. They got 600 $800,000 homes over there. Yeah. Yeah. That's That's not Apple's. Well, you said you filled out an application over there. Go ahead.

Um I'll keep it short, but as our workforce grows, HR's responsibilities um expand in complexity. um compliance requirements increase and risk exposure becomes greater. So being proactive to infrastructure investments now will um prevent costly legal and operational issues later. Um one thing I'm wanting to look at in the near future is um an advanced timekeeping system that will incorporate all our employees because right now we do have it different for different departments and this will increase greater accountability, audit readiness, streamline payroll process and a long-term scalability. So something we can grow in the future. I'm sorry.

Um, another one right now is we do have um we have used them but a uh payroll label labor uh lawyer to just consult with and just keeping them um it wouldn't be like full-time anything. It would just be one off here and there but for risk mitigation and expert backup without the cost of having that full-time person.

Um other things are just expanding our software. Like right now we we share a lot of different softwares in between departments just to help save cost and if for HR I know that I'm going to need a lot more that are just for HR so that that information is getting shared between departments and everything. Um another one that I'd really like to see come in play is uh workshield. It is a software that can help um it handles um independent handling unsensitive complaints. It reduces internal conflict and um it allows for employees to come forward if there's something going on in the city that they don't see is right that they can actually go to a third party and there's actually lawyers on there that can help um mitigate it between the city and employees and they normally resolve everything within a week. It's something that I know Frisco has implemented and Princeton also has implemented too. And the cost isn't that crazy. It's only like I want to say it's about 4,000 a year right now for our current staffing size. I'd have to go back and double check that's still the rates, but that'd be something I'd really like to see um across the board. But as we grow, just the compliance needs and just making sure that we're staying on top of everything. Once you hit 50 employees, that hits another mark so forth with when you hit 100 employees, etc. And I just want to make sure we're staying on top of everything and keeping our policies and um our staff happy and healthy. Questions?

Thank you.

Well, you just got everything new, so yours will be short. Exactly. All right. Thanks. Um basically whatever the police asked for, we want twice. How does that work? We're going to start the annual boxing match this year between police and

little leg wrestling. Um, well, there's there's really a lot we could talk about, but mostly it's going to come down to council desire on what the level of service you want out of your firearm. You can go in a lot of different directions. Um, there's which we're not going to go in. Um, right now all I am is concentrating on trying to get out. You know what I'll say is like a certified crew um to answer the general alarms. Okay? And that being anywhere from EMS to fire alarms to structure fires, those kind of things. Anything you would see in an everyday city, uh, is all unconentrated. We're not concentrating on heavy rescue or rope rescue or any of those kind of things. Uh, just trying to get those crews out. There's a lot of standards out there. Um, it's going to take us a while to meet some of those standards. And at PA, you'll hear that a lot when we talk to the fire department. And just so you know, it's not a law, okay? It's a recommendation. But the problem with the recommendations is that you're held to them if something goes wrong. They are used in litigation. So, it's always my intent to meet the NFPA. And if you show intent uh with whatever you're doing um then you're usually in good standing uh if something goes down. So right now I've been studying um the stats on what does it take for us. We we need a threeperson response. That is really the bare minimum. NFPA is going to recommend four. Most standards are going to recommend four. You can do it with three. We will do it with three. Um the volunteers are great. We're continuing to interview volunteers and bring them in. Um but we are going to be, you know, when I started as a volunteer in the the late 80s was kind of an end of an era, right? Main Street is gone. It used to be the the guy who

owned the gas station, used to be the guy that owned the hardware store, all that kind exist today, right? So now your volunteer uh comes from from different areas than most of these volunteer firearms. Most of them are wanting a full-time career. So they're getting the experience. We're helping them sometimes with schools and things and get through and with that benefit, we're getting them to to staff our station and use it. But that's going to be a two or three year turnover. They're going to come in and get their schools and move on. So the volunteers are doing great. We are in a great position. You know, I I gave you the update before. Um I was talking with the with the Colin County Chief the other day. You know, when he took over in a similar situation that I am, he had vehicles that hadn't been maintained for 10 years and lack of equipment. We have great equipment. We have great maintenance on, you know, so we're in a great head start in that direction. Um but I can't fill all the gaps right now. Um we are averaging what did we say we were averaging 2.6 a little bit less uh per day on staffing. So and I need to be that I need to get over three on the average to try to have three per day. Um so staffing request is going to be probably my prominent request. And then um so I don't drive because I'm driving Melissa crazy right now on numbers, but we will redo the budget uh into the line items that we think we need and then we'll try to allocate what we have or reallocate. So I don't know if this is 100 directions I can go on. I we could take all day. I don't think we need to do that, but I didn't know if anyone had any kind of comments or direction. I guess for clarity for me out of those

three or out of the group that you want to ruin I I don't know what I don't know if I were that well so out of those guys that run out or is there certifications they have to have at a minimum or any of those certified EMTs or Yes. Yeah. Oh yes. So we have let me tell you we're in as far as volunteer fire departments go again we're ahead of the curve even on that. We have 21 volunteers 12 of them are certified firefighters. 13 of them have the medical certification. Impressive. Yeah. So overall staff, count everyone, um 17 firefighters and 18 medical certified. So we're in good shape there. So when the city went down this path,

was it about seven, eight years now, almost close to nine years ago when we we were like this at some point the city is going to take over. The fire department, the volunteer fire department really kind of took that serious. And I think that's what you're seeing, right, Chief? is that

you you saw the the the volunteer fire department focused the funds they were getting to get qualified staff and keep the equipment maintained. So when the city took over, we didn't have that main hit. But I think it was a year and a half, two years ago that I said we're not giving them enough staff and and now we're hearing it directly from chief. This this is where I was fearful before is that I knew that we were going to need additional staff and this what he's saying is exactly what I said a couple years ago. So, one, thank you. You're kind of validating what I said before. Um, and the other is I I think you're you're right on track of where we need to be going as a city. So,

and you know, we're not even if we add a couple layers of staff over the next couple years, we're not the volunteers aren't going to go anywhere. We need we need to to staff more than one. Last year, we did almost 150 overlapping calls. So, calls running at the same time. Uh, so what I'm talking about just to get to three is just to answer one. at a time, but there's multiple times and those are grown. Yeah. Chief, if we raise the stipen for the volunteers, would that encourage any of them to hang around a little bit more? I think it would help, but you still have a a limit on their hours, correct?

Yes, correct. So, we require the volunteers, they do 12-hour shift per week. Uh, one of those shifts per month has to be on a weekend and then we ask them to come in with their assigned captain for two out of those four shifts per month. So it's um I mean it's a lot. So you have to remember the volunteers priority right family then their jobs some of them are going to school and then it's the Josephine fire department. So to get that much out of them is I think is just outstanding. Is it a flat so for the weekend? Is it a flat stipen for the weekend or is it per hour?

So if they answer the one per week, one of them being on a weekend then we give them $200 uh for the stipen for the month. So it was a little bit higher when it was on the volunteer side. I calculated that and we would we didn't have we only had about 30% of the money you guys were handing out. So we have to make some adjustments there. So but I don't money's you know it's great. I don't know if it's there in send it. Like I said a lot of them are doing it because they want the experience. it helps them uh when they go for a career that they can already come in and say they've got a little bit of experience. So, um have we considered the safer grant? As soon as it opens.

Yeah. Yeah, we have talked about it. They they've been really weird the last year or so with the funding. Um last year last year different than what I was used to, but we'll keep an eye out for it for sure. What is it called? It's a safer grant. Safer grant. Oh, safer grant. So the government will pay a certain amount of money for it's changed over the years. So it used to be a graduated step plan then it was we'll give you two years worth of salaries and you have to let just came off of it where they were funding nine firefighters. So it it's is it paid out of FEMA? I think it's a FEMA program. Yes, it is. It is. So FEMA has been kind of tight the you know since the new administration took over. So

they lean towards funding the larger departments from what I can tell too. So, you really have to have some compelling um compelling grant application. Yeah. Yeah. I was kind of shocked to see that Raleigh had nine. I'm like, damn, we just want two or three over here. Yeah. I'm looking forward to hearing about the ESD first meeting at maybe at the March City Council and maybe Sure. the prediction of a vision of how that might tie in to your needs.

Yes. And I I think the biggest thing um because I think we'd be at a crossroads if the ESD was voted down. We'd be making some hard decisions whether we're going to leave our city limits um without a contract with somebody. You know, the muds are one thing. If they're going to pay us, not a problem. Um so, but the ESD I you know, it's too early to tell because they have to what is the tax rate going to be and how much is that going to trickle down to us? But it right now it's looking very positive. So, uh, but I'll give you an update on that. Have we heard anything from the CO mud? We've been trying to reach them this actually this last couple of weeks. I talked to them last week. Oh, did you? Yeah.

Oh, do they have a timeline of when they're They think by the fall. By the fall putting up the They said most of the infrastructure is done now. I noticed the signs are up. I think even um but they thought by the fall they'd have homes ready to go and selling. So, okay. So that may actually help us with funding additional staff. Well, yeah, I guess in the long run. A long way. Yeah. Yeah. Any other questions for him? Before you step down, I just want to say I want to commend you on coming in here and doing a great job. I've heard nothing but great things about you.

Talk to everybody. Yeah, I've heard nothing but great things about you from afar. Other fire departments, the people that I speak to in Rowlette, just I mean, just I want to commend y'all as a as a group, you know, just magnificent job. So, just we're super proud of y'all. Appreciate that.

And and don't take my being like, hey, we're not raising. We're here to support y'all, you know. So, um, you know, we know what when you come to us and say, "I got to have it." You know, um, that's the council's job to provide for the citizens of Josephine, and it's your job to let us know what we we need to provide you to get that done. So, we're here for you all, everybody, as a whole. So, but just want to thank you as the the, you know, the first fire chief of Josephine. Um, you're representing well, and we're I'm proud of you as a council. So, thank you. It's an honor to serve with you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

I just want to quickly piggyback something I missed is so you're not caught off guard at the March meeting. Uh I'm going to propose paying off the JVFD fire engine loan of $248,000 that we assumed. We are in a financial position to pay it off versus continued installments which go out to 2037. It would be an interest savings of $43,000 just so you're not caught off guard next month. Awesome. Yep. What else we got on the

We're going to flip through the next two just real real quick. So, um if you take a look at this chart, this is not an organizational chart. This is just a list of positions. The white ones we currently have. Um, if you remember the SGR compensation study, organizational study that we did a couple of years ago, this the the highlighted purple was we'd have these people in pace by 27 and the green was 28. Go ahead and go to the next one. Um, this you can read on your own. I think everybody has a copy where I can send it. But, uh, this just kind of shows what they suggested versus what we're doing and what we think we need. So it may differ a little bit from what uh their study showed and time has kind of changed.

What is the do you know off hand what the what so I can write this down what the uh street operator position starts at. Does anybody know? If you don't that's that's fine. So that's are we tiered or is that just a operator and then you're just an operator? There's no one two three or nothing. All right. What about other positions? Do you have any stat any positions that way? Like maintenance level one, two, three.

So we do have an incentive for when licensing they get a dollar per license. Okay. Yeah. So if they come in green right off the road, they do their schooling. They have to be in, you know, here for 2 years. TCQ standard working hours cuz we don't do like the, you know, if you got a class B license or class A license, you're you know, you can be a one, two, is a dollar more if you it's just a dollar more. It's not, it doesn't move you up in the the top out. And no, we don't have as a department. That's probably we've discussed it. Me and Melissa discuss it where Melissa discussed. It's a lot of work. I know. I just wanted to know that starting range. Go ahead.

Okay. Um I won't spend much time on this either. Um this is just kind of letting you know where people office currently and some options for the future. Um we've got um five spaces freed up in the back because of public safety moving out. I will tell you that it's not ideal. Uh, one of them looks like, you know, Harry Potter's cupboard space, you know, and underneath the stairs, it's kind of dark and gloomy. Um, and there's no windows. And um, what is it?

He'll take it. Um, but we we can use those spaces. We've currently got uh three people at the uh community center. So, finance, there's two that share an office, Melissa and Kathy. And then um HR is over there. Um I would like to know and I'll put it on the survey. Do you really is it really important to get um the two out of finance so we clear up that room so we make it available? Um or are you happy for them to stay there a little bit? So what my concern is that we're playing musical offices and I think every year we're going to end up shifting people around. So I just kind of want to be careful as we uh plan for space. Uh the annex has three offices. They're all filled. Uh we have our new inspector that's in one office and then they have a conference table in there that has worked out beautifully. So um that space is well used and that's another consideration is we only have one conference room here at city hall. Um so you know like if Miguel hired two people I could it kind of made sense to put them back here rather than moving administration around but then they're going to tie up that conference room because they use it all the time. So then the rest of city hall doesn't have it. So I think what it boils down to um if you kind of go to the last one there, the procurement laws uh for city buildings are really strict. So we looked at doing kind of some interim changes with making sure everybody's behind the glass. So most everybody is except that front office at the moment. Um we also the three in the back in the cubicle areas behind Patty's area. There's no other exit out of there. So, you know, ideally that would kind of go through through the police department and there would be a flow through the building, but we're looking at it and we can kind of solve immediate issues, but we're wondering instead of doing kind of

this phase within city hall here, eventually you're going to need a bigger chambers and some other things. So, I assume that we would expand on this particular piece of property because we're here and we do have a little space in the front. You don't have a whole lot in the back or the side. Um, would you actually designed to build off the back right there, right?

Well, with the dumpster and the I guess some things can be relocated a little bit. Um, but would you instead of us doing kind of the internal and then getting around to doing the ex, you know, the bigger changes later, we have to hire an architect if we touch anything. If we touch a wall, I can't just have public works do it, even though it seems like that would be really simple. I've got to hire an architect anyway. So, would you want to go ahead and do um an architect and have them kind of do a phase one and phase two? So, just go ahead and plan it so we know what's coming. And then financially we can plan for that whether it's three years down the road or what have you. Uh we can also kind of plan our personnel better. Um and in the meantime uh once we get it back then maybe we could go ahead and do some of those immediate changes. Um but I kind of want to see what makes sense. You know if somebody comes in here with a plan to enlarge the building and it messes up what we just did here. I don't want to waste money on that. So just I'll put it on the survey, but just kind of some thoughts about do do we want to deal with you know immediate issues about flow of the building um so we can better use those spaces in the back or do we want to kind of look at the bigger picture and plan so that we can someday enlarge this building and then whatever we do now kind of makes sense. So just some thoughts on um space and where people are going to work from. So, I I'll send you a couple questions on the survey

and see what your thoughts are on that. We'd hope these little changes that we wanted to make would just be really simple, but they're just not. So, that's why we haven't gotten very far with that. Going to have an architect regardless. Yeah. You think I I know you know guys know my opinion. I I want to see you guys out of the community center and over here and looking at an expanded building personally. So, and now it's time to probably look at that community center cost now that we know what we got. Yeah. Going into next year. Mhm. Agreed. So, what's up on the fence? What were you? I don't know.

I I'll let um Council Member Rididgeway had requested that we I guess look at what was put up. Um Brandon Rod, but I'll let her explain. Basically, I don't think the other city council really went out and the issue and maybe Oh, sorry. Really? It's on. Can you go a little closer? Um, the issue was I think really more around the back of the fence where the the chain link was like doing this and you can't get in there to clean the weeds real good. And I

I don't think that was part of the quote, was it? Well, that was that's my whole issue. I don't think we really saw a line by line quote. Um the quote was is there is there a possibility and not right now with of course everything else that's been brought up today, but can we when you can't go to sleep at night think is there a way that we can straighten up the fence? I'm sure we can get that done with staff. That to make it look better. Um are you talking about the chain link fence? The chain link fence. I don't you can't see it in your pictures. I can see it right here. You can see it in Yeah, you can see it. And I was It just hit me. I'm like,

we could have taken the fence that they took down and put it at the back of the cemetery. I have a question. When because you were actually the one that that championed this when you asked I championed it and yeah, I I didn't go out. And when it when it came to the council, you gave us the impression that there was no fence there at all. No, there is a fence.

Hold on. Hold on. So, I'm just telling you as because I was on there. I was part of this, right? So, it was as if there was nothing up there. You never brought up the fact that there was a fence in the front to begin with. And I mean, I don't I know there's lots of cemeteries around. We had multiple discussions on this before anything was decided of being put up on that front piece. Nobody ever said when we were looking at all the different fence types that, "Hey, there's already something there. Why don't we just repair what's there? It was it was we need to put something up there for our our ancestors as this came forward. But yeah, but you were here when we went through all this. You were at all the meetings.

I was here at all the meetings. This was what Bobby brought forward. And I believe she said when she came to city council, she had somebody that could maybe fix it, but we had to go out for bid. I just think that if somebody thinks of some way that we can remedy this later, Yeah. to make it look better than what it is, because I feel like we spent $8,100 and all it is is a a flimsier metal fence than

That's my point. Nobody pointed out to the council at the time there was already something structurally there. Then I will apologize as a citizen sitting out there that I didn't bring you those pictures then because that makes me I'm just as fault. I'm just as fault. Which side are you talking about? The one on the back. I'm trying to just clarif because there's this one down the side too. Are we talking about the one down? I don't know. I don't know who took these pictures. These are the pictures that I sent with because there's the one around the gra. So are you talking about the chain link right here? The chain link fence was what Bobby was worried. The one down here. Yeah,

that was that was her issue. And if you look real close by the Reeds Chapel Cemetery, you can see all that one needed was just some paint. And it was really heavyduty. I mean, really rot the real rot iron, not the stuff that we get sold nowadays. So, can you go out there and measure that chain link fence? I can. We have previous quotes from whenever we initially did this for complete

basic chain link fence is what's there? Replace all that old stuff. tear it all out for us and replace it with new and we also had it with black coated chain link. But the issue is not one of the issues that we incurred was that's there's almost like three acres there that we're trying to fence and that's what we agreed or y'all agreed upon is just do the front ped up and roll on. Yeah. We also have livestock fencing on the exterior that that is why it looks so bad is because it's they're leaning on it. Okay. The livestock is next to the chain link. Yeah. There is about a twoft variance of material. So we can't it's harder to go in and just straighten the chain link because the live

that chain link by this picture right here is um more than likely 90% of it is unrepairable. That fence has got to be ripped out. I mean you could maybe salvage some poles and put top rail back on it, but um I mean I've been watching YouTube. We can get the we can speak with the property owners on both sides. There's two different property owners. We can discuss with them if we they will allow us to go in and clean that area up on the outside because we'll have to go on their property. We will go in there and see what we can do with them and then we can go from there. You know, honestly,

as as not to add more work on your plate, I mean, you could you could clear the outside, put some new top rail, and roll out some new chain link 200t at a time. I mean, it can be done. It doesn't have to be like a a now pro, you know, it's like my father-in-law used to buy a little bit of a polar log. But anyways, I just send us an update on that. I thought we could do better for our history part of it. We do have a few funds. I think we spent 8,000 and 30,000 was approved. So, we do have a few. I have no idea what the costs are on chain link, but we can certainly look into it if that's what council wants.

I just Bobby, when y'all were looking at it, Bobby had mentioned maybe iron all the way around. There was a quote for that. Well, there was a quote for it. How much was it though? All the way around to replace that um to go all the way around. It was and then but that rod iron is not going to hold up with cattle. You can't I made the um comment that bo I was going to have to leave town because that's why Bobby hadn't been at a meeting

because that they're talking about putting that decorative around on the sides. It's not going to withstand. It's going to It's going to get destroyed. Is this fence not as durable? No, it's not. No, it's decorative. It's very decorative. Disappointing. It's not. It's It's disappointing. I can say it's as durable as the last fence that was there. No, it's iron. This is This is the flimsy stuff. That's why I'm hasn't come to any meeting. She said she's afraid she would have to be arrested by Why? because they put up a new rod or new. She's upset. I mean, well, she's more than happily to come up here and speak her peace. I told her that.

I mean, and she did right after it was decided. That's right. Okay. All right. These next items are going to be quick or we're going to put them on the next work session. Oh, there we go. So, we're good. What was it? Okay.

Um the first one is the code of conduct. Um we started with I think it was in November it was suggested that we have a code of conduct for interactions between council and staff. Um after that we had some feedback and kind of two different things came back. So, um I think in your packet you've got the two suggested versions. Uh one kind of incorporated stretching that out and including citizens and volunteers and all board members. Um and then the next one was more of an ethics policy or a combined code of conduct ethics policy. Um so I will let council talk about that. The versions are in your packet. Well, it's a unique time for me because my uh uh

oh my yeah my connection is lost. I'll talk about the policy in regards to the quorum when it comes to speaking here. Now the city staff to and us that are up here. I mean obviously we got to have a certain amount of professionalism and how we speaking we engage in communication amongst ourselves and the citizens and and the proposed changed um it some of that verbiage included the citizens and volunteers. Now I do not want to have them I'm not going to apply the same standard because my standard for myself and my conduct is a higher threshold and that also applies to the city staff. But a citizen should come up here unrestricted and vent and if a foul word comes out that's that is permissible 100%. Um if they yell scream that is permissible

for me it's for the for law. I mean for you first outside of a verbal threat. Yeah.

As long as they're not violating Texas law. If someone comes up here and calls me every name under the book, I that that's fine. That I'm I'm up here to take that and that is my responsibility. But I am not going to apply the same standard that I am being held to or the city staff is being held to to a citizen. Public speaking is very difficult for a lot of people. And sometimes I've seen it here firsthand where it was their first time speaking and they're shaking about a particular subject. They're scared. they're nervous and sometimes when people are going through or they're very passionate about something, they may act emotional and that's a good thing. But to apply even more standard to them is is ridiculous and I think it's uncalled for. As long as it's not a verbal threat or they're not throwing anything, hey, they should come up here welcomed and they should vent and we should listen and absorb and have empathy or sympathy for whatever it is they've got to express how whatever they have to say. So, uh, to to include that into that whatever that resolution is, I think they they should be left out in in volunteers.

Yeah. And I totally agree with you. Well, it's not worth the piece of paper is written on because you can't you can't stand on it. I mean, I mean, it's your first amendment to come say whatever you want and and they can say whatever they want, you know. So, is this and also we're talking about um we're not on a street naming ordinance, right? We're here to talk uh ethics policy.

So, in the code of ethics policy, you know, um obviously I care about everybody that's with the city staff. I I can understand where some personalities can have some mixtures and and that's a good thing, but as long as everybody at heart is working for a common goal, which is for the citizens and and also the city, what's best for the city and overall well-being. But I don't want to see as a an elected official come here and make the lives of the city staff harder. Understand that all of us up here, we get to be here is a privilege. And it's simply that is a privilege. We're up here to serve, serve, serve, serve. I myself, and I have spoke to a few people, what could I do to help them and also help serve the citizens? My job is to make their lives a little bit easier, which is if we give them a better budget, more personnel guidance. That's that's part of whatever our job is, too. I do not want to put my thumb on Lisa, put my thumb on the police chief or anyone here. I don't want to ask questions that come off demeaning or belittling. They we we pay them very very well. They've got lives here. They've got families. And I don't want them to feel like I am after them or they need to leave somewhere else because I just so happen don't like a personality conflict with whoever it is that's applied here at Silly Staff. H having different is and and I guess what I'm what I'm trying to say is like hey we got to set aside those things too. You know we got to come at each other with with like hey how can I help you and you help me? Hey let's work together. and he needs to be in that setting in that tone. But I don't want to be so overbearing on all of y'all to the point where like, you know what, I need to probably get a contract because I don't know if I'm going to have a job this next election. When all of us up here, we're only up here for 2 years, but whoever is sitting here has been applied here for been working here for

10, 15, 20 years, they shouldn't have to worry about that. I think everybody here that's been applied for the city, that's working for the city cares and loves their community and wants to be here. you're hearing it that they need help and they're absorbing so much extra work that what they originally signed on for. So keep in mind the more resolutions, the more work that we're adding to them, we're just increasing their workload and here we are. We don't want to give them any extra hand. And also if your personality or the way you're delivering things to them, you don't want to lose them over that. That's that's that's foolish of us. We have to be understanding of their needs as well too and consider that. So if we have an issue or we have a problem, it it needs to be with with an with a goodhearted approach. Say, "Hey, how can I help you? You're struggling with this. What could I do for you?" The the citizens and when there's a lot of citizens here that that have gripes, but is that gripe outweigh the majority? That also needs to be taken considerations. I know I've get approached with some gripes, too. And yes, we want to change a lot of things and implement. We can't make everybody happy, and I understand that. But we have to look for what's best for them. So I think the the conduct part I think it's it's really needs to be held amongst accountable both ways. The city council members also all of us here elected those future and coming in. That's a two-way street. So that's my my touch on it. But I I I wish nothing but the best for everyone here and and it should be a working relationship because I'm only here temporarily. Y'all are here. y'all have way more love and roots here with the city and and that is a big consideration for me.

We appreciate that. Thank you.

I understand what you're saying. Um I can tell you what I have seen is um not all questions that are being asked are like assuming wrongdoing questions. Sometimes people ask questions just for clarity. Sometimes people ask questions because they need the knowledge. Like when I ask my husband something, he gets mad like every single time because I'm like questioning him on what he's doing. Well, no. Like if he passed away tomorrow, I need to know why he did this the way he did it because when somebody has to come finish the job, like I need to be able to tell them, "Oh, this is already done or that's already done." Um, so somebody asking questions of somebody isn't necessarily accusatory, how however you say that word. um it's not accusing somebody of doing wrong. It's just for knowledge and nobody should have an attitude when they respond with the answer because it's not necessarily a bad thing. But also, I have seen several times on council um people up here that have been elected and people up here that have been appointed um rolling their eyes when other council members speak and acting unbecoming of an adult. and that's just not appropriate. So, um, and then the very last council meeting, um, Mayor Attorney ended it abruptly. He did not even give us the chance to say all in favor. He motioned to adjourn and you seconded it super quick. And I didn't even get a chance to ask what I was going to ask after the because Pam was talking and y'all just wanted her to shut up. And so, and then the two of you got up and left in the middle of like I'm just sitting here like I don't even know how to respond to this. I don't know what you do when the mayor gets up and leaves in the middle of what we're doing. Like that's not appropriate.

Well, I I think some topics can be overly discussed and there's a point to where we're just beating a a topic for no apparent reason and it's all in the delivery. It's all in the delivery 100%. But do you feel like sometimes maybe because we don't like what someone has to say or we don't like somebody in general that we automatically assume negative the moment they start talking and we don't give them the the moment to

if you're assuming that I don't dislike that I dislike Pam. I don't I don't agree with a lot of her stuff. The way she delivers. Pam is a very very smart woman and she has a lot of good ideas. So assuming that I don't like her is is not correct. I'm not assuming that you don't. I'm saying if you do like I'm not saying that you don't like her. I'm just saying that sometimes um the way it comes off isn't very well well I I think it also it matters intent intent behind the reason why some of these resolutions and some of these things are being I mean obviously I mean we're creating resolutions for a reason.

What are the reasons why we we don't have to talk about it but we know why they're here and it's ridiculous the fact that we have to create that. It's to protect them. Yeah. And and the communication and how we conduct business with these with with our city staff. It's to protect them. Absolutely. Right. So the fact that we have to create that is is beyond me.

Sometimes it has a point because we're not going to be here in 10 years. And so Right. Like for instance, when um I don't remember who it was that there was a resolution made or an ordinance made and they were talking about it and one time there was a word that needed to be changed. We're all on the council now and we know if if somebody came up with an ordinance, we know exactly what it means because we created it. Um but 10 years from now, whoever's here and they're just reading that, they may not understand that exact word. And so sometimes there is some reason to change something. And I'm just saying maybe we should have a little more grace and understanding because as you mentioned earlier, people were elected. So somebody thought that they were justified in this position. So we have to be kind to each other as well.

Absolutely.

Well, that goes a long ways. I mean from the beginning of people being when you constant when you have questions for questions is you know it's giving clarity and being transparent is not an issue. I mean the staff is transparent. There's nothing to, you know, if they make a mistake, that's one thing. But as a council member, when you're emailing staff, tons and tons of emails, question, when you give them an answer and then you their response is a question upon a question, it's accusatory. This is not made up. All the meetings have been recorded from day one. Go back and watch every meeting. So, it's not There's nothing in like the citizens part. It doesn't need to be in there. You can't you can't you can't put that a citizen come up here and say whatever they want is freedom of speech. So, it's just a lot of it is control. You know, my my job and the council's job is to set policies, budget, and all those things. It's not to be up here into the day-to-day operations or, you know, constantly accusing staff because that's what's been done in the past. That's why these are created. They're not just magically been created. Other council members have wanted it done for protection. It's not I mean, the meetings are there. Anybody can go back and watch them. So, and after so long, it it just it gets old. It just gets old. So, as a I feel like the council, this new council has done a very good job for the most part. Um, you know, asking the right questions most of the time. I feel like everybody's everybody's I feel like everybody on the council's here for the right reason. So,

I'm proud to to serve with this council, even yourself, as much as the last one. So, I I respect every vote that anybody up here has. I may not agree with it and I may roll my eyes or whatever, but I mean it's I was at a council meeting till 1:30 this morning in Rowlette. So, you know, I'm I'm tired sometimes. You know, I'm putting my time in here and everywhere else, but I put my time in here. And if staff does not feel comfortable when half the staff, executive staff is speaking about leaving the city, that's a problem. That is a problem. So, we can't forward and everybody can't be in those emails because it's a walking quorum. But moving forward, maybe the initial email from any council member to a staff should have everybody in the email. That way, everybody can see those emails. So, if you send an email to a staff member, but then you run the risk if anybody makes a mistake and responds, then now you've you've you've got a walking you've violated the Open Meetings Act. So, at the end of the day, it's you know, when when you have anybody and you that you shouldn't just be thinking that they're out trying to to get something. And that that was that was the issue that a lot of these council members had. So, but I'm pretty sure the last meeting we adjourned, everybody voted, didn't they? Or no,

it was no, nobody was talking. I'm pretty sure everybody was in our hurry.

And Alex seconded it. And then there was no all in favor. You said that as you were everybody raised their hand. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's false. I'm going to go back and watch the meeting or watch it on YouTube. I mean, there was a motion in a second. Yeah, there was not all in favor. I was actually standing here going or sitting here like looking around like what do we do? Like what just happened? January meeting because I was trying to type those hundreds of words. So what are we doing on these here or what is council? I I heard you.

I want to just explain one thing. one reason and you know that you received and like you just said asking questions over and over some things when I ask questions of Lisa and I actually ask them based on the first code of conduct that came through what two months or two months ago I think I tried to go through that process I don't think of everything all at once that I need to ask and that's just me as a person and if that's a problem, then I need somebody, maybe one of y'all council members to tell me how to do that because when it comes to my mind, I want to ask the question so I can get the answer. And there's a lot of things that I do question, not to be accusatory, it's as April said, I want to know how things work. When I was on council the first time, I didn't really think I could ask any questions. I just kind of sat there. It was like cuz it was all new. Jane, I don't think the accusatory replies to you for the most part.

Excuse I don't think the accusatory replies to you for the most part. So, just clarify that. I mean, well, good. If it did, I'm just telling you why. I don't think of everything all at once. No. And and I'm Jason

I'm the one that actually asked for the code of conduct to be put in place. I'm the one that started this. Um, the whole premise behind this was just to have something very simple, not complicated, and that we all could agree to. And this is kind of blown to this big massive policy. And I I think you kind of summarized it perfectly, Alex. This is we're we're the team up here, but you're are you can even consider us really the coaches, but you guys are the the team that's going to go win. You're you're the ones that are running out on the field and winning it. Without you, we're nothing. We don't want to have a city. We don't. So, for you guys to be upset at anything that we're doing, we need to make sure we can get through that and have a easy way to get through that resolution because we can't function as a city any other way. We have to be able to coexist and we can't have accusatory language towards the city from the city council. That's the reason that I know you weren't here when that was happening, but that was a real issue for our city staff. we wouldn't have this code of conduct conversation if it wasn't a real problem. So that's why we that's why I requested as a council member

and I I will answer you this. I went a step further with revising it because I have an HR payroll background and I've seen these things at a corporate level which is obviously different than the city level. But that is why I took took it the way that I did. And maybe obviously you think that's too detailed, but that was the reason that I did that because I have a background that can help in this city. Mhm. So what do you all think about it? I'm sorry. What do you think about it? I don't want to get them involved. Because that's I mean it's

at this point I'm I'm content to just drop it. I mean I still do have a couple of issues with the way we do things. Um, I just think some things could be done more efficiently. Um, I think some things could be done not in a meeting and maybe after.

Um, the consent agenda is an example. There I don't know why we have one anymore because everything is pulled off. So, those reports are really they're in everybody's if you look at any city's agenda, there's there's a consent agenda. Those items are typically just very straightforward. every once in a while I can see somebody pulling something off. Um, but we spend a lot of time talking about those items. Um, and you know, with one meeting a month, we've got to cram a lot of things in there. So, those are really just meant to be kind of a snapshot in time of what staff's doing. So, if something is a little incorrect because there's been a change since somebody wrote it versus the meeting that we had, I I just I don't want staff beat up over over that. So, if we need to, I mean, we'll give you an update again next month, you know. So, I don't mind an email or, you know, if there's a question to staff, we can certainly try to get it answered. Um, but I just hate for you to spend an hour on your consent items because we've pulled them all off. So, that's that's kind of one thing. We feel like we do a lot of that should be really simple. It should be really simple for u any one of the staff members to kind of take last month's update what we did this month and just kind of hand it to you. and that they're really just informational. They're not items to vote on or anything. So, um, and then there's occasionally there's language and I don't want to get too deep into who did what and I don't want to blame anybody for anything, but sometimes the accusatory tone really did get to us and it's things like who dropped the ball on it and it's, you know, just just things that kind of sting a little bit. You know, we we make mistakes. We do. And we'll own them. and we will, but it's almost like it it felt late last year, it almost felt like we were looking for reasons to get rid of people. It was that's the way a lot

of us were taking it. And I'll be honest too, my senior staff, there are several people here that have their 20 years and they can go out the door. That is a lot of institutional knowledge that could just walk away. And as what was said, um, I respect all of you and you all make policy and I will do whatever you want as far as putting things in place. I will give you my opinion. That's all I can do, my professional opinion, and then I'll drop it and I'll do whatever you want. Um, so I don't mean to be argumentative. Sometimes I play devil's advocate just so you can see another side of things. So I don't know if I come across maybe too argumentative, but I want to We've got very good professionals here. Um, if people aren't professional and they're not proficient at their jobs, they don't stay here very long. But Kirk's got 20 years, Patty's got 20 years, Jess probably got 30 years in the profession or more. Um, our other chief has many, many years. It It's just about, you know, some things should be simple and we just want to hand them to you asformational. Other things I I don't mind having a policy if you really want one. I'm hoping it's just not needed. But a lot of it is just delivery as what was said and maybe just being a little kinder and a little bit more sensitive about how that's presented. So I don't think we're overly sensitive on this end. Um if we come across that way, please let us know. But I'm content to just drop it all together.

I believe I'm good either way. I mean, if you if you don't think we need it, I'm good. I'll I'll pull it back if the rest of the council's willing to pull it back as well. And I'll just say one more thing because it's kind of already been mentioned on the emails to staff. I don't mind questions. I don't think any of us mind questions. What we do mind though is and I respect your experience. I really do. But your experience in corporate is very different than municipal. So when we start getting told that we're doing our accounting wrong, that's kind of where we start getting defensive too because it has to be done a very certain way. And if if you want to request some add additional information be added to something, we're happy to look at that and see how best we can provide it to you. Um, but the last back and forth there was just a a lot of stuff that I couldn't it didn't work. You know, there were I don't mind explaining how things work here, but just a lot of things that we can't do. And I I don't know if I'm happy to see if we can arrange like some additional training or I can put out TML workshops that kind of I mean there's a wonderful budget and tax rate one that Melissa and I have been to that really break down how all of that works.

Um and sometimes maybe we don't spend enough time explaining the process of budget adoption or tax rate adoption. Um I thought we put out lots and lots of information as far as our financials. I I think five years ago your agenda was probably is just the front of the agenda. You know, there weren't a lot of attachments. But we almost put out so much information then it's now it's almost too much because if you get too much then you can't find what you need. But you know what's wonderful about the way it's been put out is the fact that you can tell your constituents it's out there. You just need to look at it and read it because the information's there. There are a lot of entities that do not do that. Okay. So, we're going to table it for permanently. Is that where we're talking? We're good.

Except we're not making any votes today. No, I know. But that's what I'm saying. We don't need to put it on a future agenda or anything like that to I don't think so. Yeah. Well, if something gets to staff, I'm I'm more than happy to talk to council about it and maybe we just need to bring up issues as they occur. And same for you all, too. Okay. I'm good with that plan. What? Street naming. Oh, I'm sorry.

Um, I guess to follow up with what Lisa has mentioned, you know, we're we're not afraid of hard questions and and we understand that the questions are meant to to understand. um you know at least on my perspective uh you know the report is a snapshot and you know truly it felt like we're playing catchup really since I've been here and it seems like we spend our time defending our work than thinking about some forward focused topics and um you know our goal is to advance the public interest that's what we're here to do like Lisa said you know uh you set the policy, we'll carry it across the goal line. That's our job and we want to collaborate with y'all. I I really appreciate when I get the question sooner because then I'm not caught flatfooted, you know, and and like Lisa mentioned, you know, I don't mind explaining everything that I do and and I and I'm happy to do it. However, we are starting to ex expect and and experience more business in a much limited amount of time.

And um like I mentioned, we don't we're not afraid of questions. And and forgive me if at any point, you know, and I think I'm speaking for everybody here, you think that we're giving attitude in any way, shape, or form when we're responding. I know somebody mentioned that earlier in the conversation. So, you know, we want to be we're all on the same team. We all are. But, um, we hope that this discussion and moving forward, we can have a a a collaborative relationship, open relationship, cuz like you mentioned, you want to know, the residents want to know. We'll be happy to explain. You know, I I just want to make it clear from a staff perspective, we're not afraid of the questions. It's just sometimes the the timing, the manner in some instances, but we're happy to to answer those.

I think it too it comes down to um feeling like you all trust us or not. So I think that was a lack towards the end of last year and maybe even to this year a little bit but it's just everyone here has experience um everyone has credentials um either degrees certifications or a combination thereof everyone keeps up with their profession in their fields uh one of the things when I got here it was very important to me and staff was very agreeable about it is I want them to further their educations I want them to stay current in their fields I want them to network with others in their fields because we learn that way. Mhm.

Um, so I think we pretty much stay on top of things I just um can I make one sure when we're talking about training and this is the difference between and probably one reason things are different than the corporate world than the municipal world but in the corporate world I always had to pay for my training to get further ahead. said that was like one of the qualifications of my job. And obviously that must be different in the municipal world. It wasn't with the organizations that I worked with. But

evidently it's different in Texas than it is in other states. So I don't know. I believe everyone here paid for their education to the point when they got hired, you know, they hire they were hired on with a certain level of qualifications. But if I want um Jerica to go to become a Texas registered municipal clerk um and we're advancing her because someday Patty's going to retire and I need to have someone prepared to just fall into her shoes. I think that will happen seamlessly someday. Um but I think it's only fair that we pay for for that kind of thing. Um I don't I go to That's Ever City. That's not

I maybe go to two conferences a year and I kind of selective. I usually go to TML. Uh this year I did pick an economic development one to also attend. Miguel had gone and he said it was excellent and it was um so I usually do a couple of those a year. I think last year I did do not last year last session and I went to Austin twice. Um, I spoke to probably eight representatives and I told them our story about our MUDS. Um, both times I testified on our experience and you all kind of gave me the go-ahhead because TML had a resolution process. Um, but I think we're pretty cautious about how we spend our money. Um I don't think anybody's taking advantage of but you know I I encourage Shannon's working on some uh degree she's finishing up and you know if it's directly related to your employment here um I I just think we should pay for that. We're investing in our employees at that point. But yes, when we hire on I mean I'm not going to pay for somebody to go, you know, start at their freshman year of college. I kind of expect you're going to come in with a certain level of

education and knowledge. Um so that part we haven't paid for, but I think going forward I I think that's just reasonable and I think that's how most cities do it. Yeah. In the corporate world today, I can tell you at least in my business line, we basically hire new grads and we hire people with certain skill sets. But I probably spent an average of 12 to$15,000 an employee last year on scaling them up. Okay. So, and the other thing is is that at least with my company, we also pay for continuing education as well. I think most corporations are having to do that these days. Do they pay for it after they've taken it? They pay it ahead. I pay it up front.

Okay. Yeah. I write those checks all the time. today. Yeah. 10 years ago they it was completely opposite. Yeah. Yeah. It was completely opposite. I need to ask these questions because Yeah, it was completely opposite. 10 years ago, actually it was about 15 years ago, we made that switch where you actually had to graduate the class and then we'd reimburse you. Now it's completely flipped. The world has changed since since co I can tell you the world has changed. I I wanted and just to kind of clarify with law enforcement, too. So if they've got a guy who goes to the academy, we pay for that instructor certificates, all that training, all and and they can up and leave and take that training and experience with them and yeah, but we the city is just part of it.

All right, we'll move on to the signs next. Street signs. Okay, street signs. Um, street signs ordinance. See,

okay. There is a um revise street name um ordinance in your packet. So, we had one initially and then there were suggestions for change and I did bulk at the suggestions for change because I thought some of the wording might get you in trouble. Um Pam has submitted a revised Dr. Sardo submitted a revised one. I have no issue with the wording. My only issue here is the implementation of it. So, um I'm I'm great with um English alphabet and and zero through nine numeric, you know, system as far as being our street signs. Uh my only issue here is I don't know why council would want to burden themselves because if you get a large subdivision, you're going to be looking at a lot of streets. And my concern is maybe not with you guys so much, but a f future council kind of might take things a little differently and developers will develop a theme long before they bring something here. So maybe it's a cowboy theme or maybe it's an ocean theme or what have you. Um, but their street names usually tie into it. And I would hate for them to get all the way through the process and they've designed their entryways and their features and their playgrounds and all to reflect something and then for council to come in and start um getting really nitty, you know, just petty kind of we don't like it because of this or or worst case scenario start demanding certain names versus other. I don't think that would happen here, but I can kind of see it going ary. And also I really have Patty's been doing this and I I really have all the faith u and confidence in her that she knows her ABCs are one two3s and that she can

decipher sure something's adequate or or not if it meets the definition. So if you want to do the street names we can do that. I I just think it's eventually it's going to take you a lot of time and I kind of worry about will developers worry about that when they're developing in Josephine both the uh commercial and the mixed use and the residential folks um they kind of want something straightforward. So when things have to go through council or they have to go through another level of regulatory set policies and procedures and put them in place and let staff implement them. That's our job. So that would be my preference for staff to implement it. I have no issues with the English language or numbers.

Out of curiosity, what was the original intent behind the change? Um, it it was not initiated by me. So, was Dr. Sardo, I believe, initiated it. Which change are you talking about? Or the ordinance? Oh, I don't know.

The ordinance was initially intended to prevent names that harm other groups. And um I had examples that I listed out loud from other cities like Dallas and Irving that are again better that are names for seducers, people who have killed Westerners and people who um are against monotheism. And if we do the first street, Second Street, ABC Street, we avoid any of that. And the issue is they're in other languages and there are actually videos of of the neighbors laughing that the Americans don't understand the translation. So it's it's not against anyone group. It's not against anyone issue. It's for simplicity and streamline.

I I actually grew up in a city that had streets named with numbers and alphabets. So I mean it didn't I think and we included in our UDC which is the going to be the all overall document how that wouldn't that would be a way to implement it again I don't have issue with the the English alphabet or the number question the more important would be so what are you saying submitted to the city for staff and city council review and approval so we have to as council, we would have to approve every city street name.

No, if you read it, it says Patty still does that part. Yeah, the the things that are already there. She's continuing. This would be new. What do you mean? The way I read it, it was that all the street names would have to be approved by It says street names within the city within the city and within the extraterrestrial jurisdiction must be submitted to the city for staff and city council review. I'm happy to make any adjustments that make people's lives easier. Um the goal is to prevent harm and perceptions and things like that. So if if we do First and Second Street, ABC Street, and the staff wants to handle it, that's perfectly fine with me.

I thought this and we can't vote on this anyway. No, no, no. I'm I'm I'm I'm following A. So basically, I I think what you guys are saying is kind of to strike the and city council out of section A. That's correct. That is perfectly fine with me. I'm I'm just I'm hung up on the wording of B. All new street names shall be in English as numbers such as first, second or as singledigit AB street. So are we saying we're no longer going to have any other names of streets? We can only be numbers or alphabet. Well, you didn't want like the previous lang again. We're not going to vote today. No, I'm just I'm just trying to say so we won't have any other street names besides one first street or a street. There's a way to appeal it. If you want to appeal it, you can appeal it.

Well, maybe I do need to get clarification. The the that's the way that says right there. The good thing about it is it's not going to confuse anybody in the future that has another one of these developers go to another city and have very similar names because that happens a lot. I mean, we have East Street over here. We have East Street over in Nevada that people get confused at. Well, I mean, that's that's not I'm going to stop that, though. We're not going to vote on it today anymore. No, I I know. I I'm I can't agree with B, though. I'm going to tell you that right now. The way that B is written there, there's no way that I'm going to agree to that. On the what? Well, if you have if you have suggestions, please share them at the March meeting or whatever. Yeah, we'll do that.

Thank you. Where did I see the part of that? I mean, I I thought the whole purpose of this work session is so we could work through this and and you're saying, "No, I'm not working through this. We can do it in March." I'm happy to make any adjustments that make life easier. I don't think it should be limited to just numbers and letters. I I don't I don't I Why wouldn't we have names of streets if if it's an Italian villa neighborhood? That's not harm, though. That's not harm. Yeah, but who's going to who's going to But Hold on. Yeah. Okay. All All I'm saying is by the way it is stated here there is no appeal. I am happy to have any revision you would like to make. Well that's what I'm asking for. I'm I'm not being

so you want me to revise it but you have the idea. I'm asking it's your ordinance. I'm happy to accept any modifications. What modification do you suggest? Remove that restriction. Remove the restrictions of just using first street through and a street piece to it. Okay, I got it. And so Okay. Okay. So, so we're basically saying use English lettering or English words, right? Or English. Okay. That's and then and then the alpha manic because that I'm happy. Okay. I'm happy. Okay. I can submit it if you want. I don't care. Yeah. Strike the red and B and we're happy to move on. Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Thank you. I love it. Just strike that.

I know. But I was looking at the part about keep it simple. the city council. That is simple, right? That I mean that is I'm looking for I'm giving my All right. So, what's the next uh before we go? Can I ask one question? I don't think we're ready to go just yet. What was But yeah, you can ask a question here. Anytime.

Well, before we adjourn, I just wanted to summarize. I was trying to keep track of the dollars today. We had 6 million for water, 500,000 for sewer sludge change. Um TCEQ fine, which is not publicly disclosed right now. U potential land purchase for the U tower that we can't discuss. So, and Milton Street, we don't have a figure for that. So, I'm just adding up the numbers before we end up in a budget discussion. And so far, it looks like it's over $8 million of things that were discussed today for expenses. I'm just clarifying. Okay. I'm not wrong, right? I don't know. I don't

That's what I've got. Thank you. That's all I want. Um, uh, the last one is the conflicts of interest. So, this one I think kind of morphed out of the code of contact uh, conduct um, into something else. So, um, I'll let document with that. What's that? Okay. Document with that.

So, yeah, I think we've had a couple drafts on that, too. Um, my thought is if it's in the human resources policies, something besides disclosure and something that clearly says that no entity can have a financial gain for something that has to do with city business in this city. But if somebody wants to make $100,000 off of a side gig in Sherman, that's great. Or in Leavonne, that's great. I If you're able to put that together, I'm happy to take that off. Um it's it's just that it it has to be more than a disclosure. Um so what do you I don't hear what you're saying.

Can I ask just one question really quick before we get too deep into this? Um we all agree that we're going to be from noon till 5. It's 5 now. I thought Yeah, let's go. 5:00 now. I thought Yeah. Yeah. Um before we dive deep into this, just respecting all the counselor's time. I I moved stuff around today, so I knew I was going to be here till 5 and then I got other things to do tonight. Me, too. I I got a call a work call at 5 and I'm late for it. Yeah. So, are we good to?

Yes. Yes. We haven't scheduled our April work session though. No, we April, we we can send it out on the survey your availability. How about that? Yeah, we can do that and schedule it at the next meeting. Okay. Just to let you know though, uh we do have a couple of joint sessions with P&Z uh that we're going to need to schedule and then probably at least two related to budget. All right. And if you could kind of I know things come up, but if you could avoid August travel too much, we'd appreciate it because we need most of here. Thank you so much.

We need a motion to adjourn. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. We have a second. Sorry. We have