Public Safety Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay. We'll bring to order the monthly meeting of the city of Joliet board of fire and police commissioners. It'd be Monday, 04/13/2026 at 05:30PM. Roll call at this moment will be commissioner Coleman.

Present.

Commissioner Strosia. Present. Commissioner Potts. Present. And commissioner Stefanski present. We have a quorum. Approval of minutes. We have the board of fire and police meeting minutes for 03/18/2026. I need a motion to accept minutes.

Motion. Second.

Very good. Roll call. Commissioner Coleman?

Yes.

And commissioner Strocia? Yes. Commissioner Pontz? Yes. And commissioner Stefanski? Yes. That is accepted. Next item will be citizens to be heard on agenda items. Seeing no citizens present, there will be nobody heard on the agenda items. K.

As far as the secretary's report goes, we have one item coming from the police department list. Applicant number 13, Adam Smolik Valdez, was removed for failure to meet requirements on 04/02/2026, and that will complete the secretary's report. Let's see here. Agenda item, administrative questions. Discussion only. Was there any item that police, chief, anything you needed to bring up? I don't

think there's anything we had today.

Okay. I I I had a couple of questions. I got a call from one of the sergeants about the oral interview. I don't know if he had Marcus Mitchell. I don't know if he had approached you guys about that.

He did, sir. And we spoke to the city manager and spoke to the new vendor, and I let him know what the what the

alternative is. Okay. So he's well he's well aware of what he has to do? Correct. Okay. Very good. Another item that I wanted to bring up was, the promotional score tie breaker. There was one, there was one of the promotional, sergeants exam, candidates that had the same score. And I think we've decided I think we determined that, I talked to, DC Blackburn. We determined that the tiebreaker and a promotional goes to the senior officer. Yes. Yes, practice. Okay.

Secretary that yeah. That's what what we what we did. So 2019, there was a list similar. So if there's a tie on this upcoming list, we would defer to seniority.

Very good. And we'll have another past practice tonight, you know, as far as that goes. So my other question I had for either I don't know if there's anybody from HR here. Yeah. The other question I had was, I I got I I filled these calls from officers, and they're wondering why, the they had a list that was put out with no names on it, just the scores.

I told them I'd address that, you know, at at the meeting here. Was there a reason for that? Some of them some of them I'm sorry. I keep cutting you off. Some of them need that type of know, they need names on the list to decide whether they're going to use the points or not, their military points.

They expressed to me that some some of the new promote promoted officers had intent to leave right away, which would sway their their whether or not they would use whether or not applicant would use their their, military points for that promotion and not keep them for the next promotion. I I told him again, I told him I'd inquire as to why that happened this time because in the past, it had been named and numbers.

So the basis for that decision was to maintain confidentiality for the officers and all of the scores. So there was a a compromise that was reached, generally speaking, where we did share the scores and I think it was was it the rank? I'm sorry.

The replacement as far as where they're at out of line.

Right. So I don't know if you heard deputy chief, but as far as their their rank and their placement on the list, but without the names. So that should be sufficient information to make the decision whether to use military points. And the the other basis for, the decision to keep the information confidential was that, we wanted to prevent the manipulation of military points to, you know, bump people and so forth. So that was part of the concern.

Okay. I get I guess I understand it. Did someone I mean, you don't even have to name names. Was was there was there a problem that we had to fix? Did somebody have a problem with the way it was in the past?

The HR director wanted the change. She felt that the the change was in line with best practices.

Okay. It'll have to be I mean, we can't we can't change anything, you know, especially with this one, but, I guess it'll be up to the officers to make that something that may be contractual, you know, in their contract or something. Because I've I've heard from at least a half dozen people that they were unhappy about that. So I was that was my question to you. Had you heard also from you know, had HR heard from that many people about keeping it anonymous?

You know? I heard from a half dozen the opposite way. So, yeah, I I'm I'm not sure, and it'll be up to them to pursue this, obviously. I'm not sure what the, there's give and take in every every move, but I'm not sure what that move was made for. The leveraging of of coming from the police department, the leveraging of using your deciding to use your your, points at a given promotion, it it it doesn't it's strategic.

I mean, it is something you don't just you don't just use it on your first, you know, promotion. So it is a little strategy involved, you know. If someone knows that there's someone ahead of them that's leaving right away, they may not use their their points. But if they know that everybody's going to be sticking around, they may use their points to to get ahead, and that's okay. There's nothing, not that I feel anyway. There's nothing, you know, sneaky or or wrong about it. It's just the way it is. But, yeah, it'll be up to them to bring that up then, I guess, and and make it a contractual item, in the future then.

We can share, your concerns with the HR director

and Yeah.

Review and

Yeah. I just yeah. Again, I'm I'm I'm a mouthpiece for them. You know? And I I'll, again, I'm sure I'll hear from them again on it. You know? But I was just wondering where HR, you know, where HR came up with that, if they had get been getting complaints about it. And I don't think that was the the the way it was. But

I personally don't know of any. Okay. I'm not sure if Pauline has experienced any one way or the other. I know you were also inquiring whether anyone has complained about the new process.

Yeah.

I have not personally been made aware of any complaints.

No. None? Okay. Alright. I was just trying to get a basis of why that happened, and I don't know that I have that, but that'll be up something something for the future because this one's in the books. So alright. Was there anything else that you guys had? Anything? Oh, is this to be who's addressing this? So

I apologize for not introducing myself first, but I wanted to jump in and and answer your questions. So my name is Gina Logalbo. I'm the deputy director of human resources, and I'm an Illinois licensed attorney. I will be working with the board in a legal and HR capacity going forward. If there are any matters that need clarification that I'm not able to to answer at the time of the meeting, I'll consult with another attorney with more expertise regarding board matters, most likely Clark Baird Smith, a firm we've worked with on other matters.

So while reviewing our hiring process for fire and police, a misstep was identified. We confirmed with our current contractor, Synard, that they have not been providing conditional offers to candidates. Going forward, we will be providing a conditional offer letter to be in compliance with Illinois law, specifically known as the job opportunities for qualified applicants act or Ban the Box. We'd like your input on how the letter signature block should read and actually for other communications as well. Would you like the letters to read from HR on behalf of the board, directly from the board, for instance?

What do you think? I mean, we haven't had a chance to to really mull it over. I don't think it really matters. This is their hiring their hiring letter?

This is a conditional offer letter?

The conditional offer pending Right. You know? Yeah. How has it been in the past?

They were sent after all of the the background, the background stuff has been done, and and that specifically is the part that we need to get it get in front of.

I guess I'm wondering

the conditional offer letter before the background.

Before the background check?

Yes. It should be sent by HR. I mean, we don't Yeah. That's before us. Yeah.

Yeah. That's before it gets here then. Yeah.

And if they had questions, they would contact HR now those.

So they're oh, I I apologize.

Oh, no. Was I was it what am I telling you? Yeah. I was saying that I think it should be signed by HR because if they're gonna have questions, they're gonna call HR. Right?

And it's technically not a decision we made. You know what I mean? Like, they had to apply and go through things and all this stuff they have to pass. So we would be able to help them if something you know, if they had a question about something. So I think it should just be signed by the people that has actually answered the questions about the application process, what's next, why didn't I get the position, etcetera.

Okay. I can tell you that in the experience of the HR director, the letters were signed by HR. But I wanted to get your input first. Well,

that's conditionally hired prior to background check, physical, eye exam, all that. Correct. So who sends them the the final offer?

HR will.

HR will do that? Correct. Have they been doing that?

The the yes.

Nothing. Okay. Yeah. I'm not sure that we need to change anything, yeah, on that on that level.

I'm sorry. To clarify, what HR has been doing is sending the letter later on in the process before they're prepared to start.

I see. But, legally, we have to do it before the background.

That's correct.

Okay. So you're only you're only changing the time that it's sent that it's sent. Okay. Yeah. No. Leave it leave it the way it is then. Yeah. But it's just gonna be an earlier

letter. Essentially.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can't see that that matters. You know? I mean, you're legal, you know, as far as that goes. You just need to be sure on on apparently, this was a a a hole a loophole that that needed to be done. Right?

Yes. The HR director identified it while we were reviewing the the hiring process.

Okay. Well, yep, I don't think we need to change anything else as far as that goes. Just, yeah. Yeah. If you've been doing it in the past, then you're you're gonna continue to do it just at a different point in the hiring process. Correct.

Very good. With some changing in the wording that, you know, the conditional offer is dependent upon

Continue to

passing all the different steps.

Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. That's it's curious to me why we why we give them a conditional offers offer, but it has to be done at that point. Right?

Yes. This is based on the state law you say. Right? Correct. Okay.

The job opportunities for qualified applicants act. It's more commonly known as ban the box.

Okay. K. Good to go. Yep. Keep it in HR.

Okay. Thank you.

One more item I had, and I think I think it again bears, the burden the burden is is on HR again. Was there a reason why we went from in person orals and written to online again?

Well, it looks like the police wanna the incident.

Joint decision, but it was input taken from the new HR director. Agreed.

I don't have the reasoning, prepared for you at this time.

But Oh, that's fine. That's fine. I'm just I'm I'm kinda lodge you know, I I kinda wanna get to the bottom of it and figure out why, you know, why we have it. And and I I know you weren't this wasn't in in the packet. You weren't ready, you know, for that. But that's a question I have, I guess. If you could, yeah, just ask ask, him or her her, is it?

Yes. Elizabeth Vergo.

Yes. If you could just ask her what what her reasoning was behind that because I believe these these steps are inherently essential to the hiring process of police and fire. And I don't know if the board feels that way or not.

I wasn't I wasn't aware. So the oral and written part for the test is now done online where individuals go to like, a testing facility of some sort?

Is that correct? So for the written, they're given it's I believe it's two or three days. It's time stamped. So once the applicant starts it, it's a certain amount of time you can't refresh, go in, go back out. So it's monitored that way.

Part of the conversation that we did have was that the lack of interested applicants that we've had in the past. So trying to keep it open for more at, like, a more of an applicant pool. For example, the last time around, we did in person oral and in person written, and our numbers were very, very low as far as, like, your return on investment. Everything was the written was at one location for one date, and then the oral interviews were scheduled out for a week. Conversation was held that you wanna keep it have it open for many applicants, especially if they do have a job.

Maybe they couldn't make it for that particular date on that particular time. So there was there was a lot of discussion about this. I don't know if there's a right or wrong. I I will say that this go around, our numbers have, like I

say, doubled, they're pretty close. And this is still, virtual testing?

Correct. Yes.

Where where are they allowed to take this test? Are you able to take it at home?

They could take it home. They just have a have to have a certain Internet screen or whatever. Camera on

them while they're taking the test?

So there's safeguards in place as far as with the timing and everything, and we also incorporate questions during the polygraph exam. We'll follow through follow-up questions as far as was there anybody else took this? Was there anybody else present? Because we are doing this oral interview on virtual, again, there will be assessors there virtually. Human resources is gonna sit in on the entry level side, and I personally am gonna sit in on the lateral side.

So I'm actually one of the assessors who will be ranking them, who, you know, providing input as far as the the process. So I I mean, this is open for debate. I know we've we've had conversations about this. Just trying to find what's the what's the right way in in the get the best return on

investment. This precedes the home visit?

Yes.

Oh, yeah. This is all at the beginning. Yes. Yes. This is the oral interview, and this is where you get your ranking. So what did you score on your oral oral interview? And what did score on your written? So this is all prime nothing else is being changed as far as the thorough background, criminal history, polygraph, psychological. None of that is changing. It's just your ranking. Where are you scoring at? And I I do see what commissioner Stefan Stomanski is saying. I I understand both sides. We're just trying to figure out what's the best path forward for us.

Because there's low numbers when it's in person.

Correct. We do and Synard and Associates is who we use, and a very few agencies actually do everything, you know, in person. Can we go back? Sure. I mean, our previous list, we did. The one that we're wrapping up now, that was all in person. Could you

could you tell me the process for getting hired? Like, this very big picture. So there's a oral and written exam.

Correct.

Then they're ranked. Yes.

What's next? The next part will once they're ranked, you you approve the list, and then we will send them for a psychological. If we get the return results that they pass the psychological recommended to the next step, they go for the polygraph.

Okay.

If they do not pass the poly polygraph or if they do pass the polygraph, then they would go on to the background with the investigations. So our detectives, they do the home visit. They do the credit. They do the criminal background. That's where the meat and potatoes of the background really comes into play. They do it at home an in home visit as well. They go to the different departments if they were a prior law enforcement. It's we've got that part is is really takes the longest part.

I'm I'm just slightly concerned about integrity with written in the world, exams online. I'm an educator, so I know bigger systems to try to eliminate cheating and whatnot. And I heard you say that you all also do it when you ask the questions on the poly. So just slightly concerned about integrity or even recording this exam to pass it on to someone else. Correct.

Correct. With with with their own device. So they have, you know, if they have their own device. Just just slightly concerned. But with all of that said, that's just to be ranked, and then they have to go through all these other steps. I I the home visit when we talked about it before, thought it was very interesting and important. But because it's like when do you see this person face to face? When do you get to look at body language, I think is very important in this line of work when people are interacting with the community. Right? I wanna see this person's overall disposition.

So I don't technically have an issue with it because, like, during COVID, it would be very like, duh. We're doing this online. Like, everyone knows everything is online because of the situation. And if you're saying we get more numbers of applicants versus in person, but you have a way of still, you know, seeing this individual's holistic being, right, before they're hired, then I'm I'm okay with it right now. Unless I I see that there's some way people have been beating the system somehow, you know, that comes to light.

This list will be a good one to compare because we're gonna have involvement from the city side with all of the entry level. We haven't had that in the past. And then I'll be tasked with sitting in on all of the lateral interviews, so however many apply. If if it doesn't work, I mean, it's always we can always just I mean, it's up to whoever. There's nothing really specific in the rules and regulations, but I know fire, they experience the same as far as logistic parts.

Where we're gonna find a location to, you know, host 200 people to take a written test, which we're not afraid of doing or we will do the work to find a location. There is just a little bit of a logistics part of it involved when you're trying to host that many people in one particular date for an exam. Hope this will be a good one to gauge because we went back to both being virtual. We'll see how it plays out and you you all you'll see the backgrounds, and you'll figure it out if if it's worth it or if it's not.

If I may, I believe one of the issues was that at the last test, there were other municipalities that were testing on the same day. I think there might have been three. And we had some specific no shows because they weren't tested at the other municipalities. This is the in person testing. Okay.

Well, I'm okay with that. There there's an integrity issue as far as commitment goes. And if you would just have to sit back and let the test come to you actually, you don't have to do anything. You sign up online. You wait to take your test. You wait for your interview. You wait for your home visit. You wait for everything to come to you. And there's a commitment thing I remember way back when I started. Yeah.

You had to be on time. If you were not on time, you were DQ'd. You were out. It it's a it's a profession, and I still think it's one of the most admirable professions out here, no matter what the media may portray it sometimes. But, to have to make appointments, to have to look your best, to bring your a game face to face with a panel, to come crack open a new book with a test on testing day?

There's stress involved. Do I wanna do that? Do I have the commitment to get my butt out of bed, make it down to take the test? Do I have that much confidence that I'm going to make it? I want this job. Naperville's hiring. Joliet's hiring. Do I want Joliet's job, or do I want do I want Naperville if they're hiring on the same day? You know? It's a commitment thing to me. And there are certain things that, you know, my my conservative views come out when it comes to, you know, commitments and accountability. And I think the in person testing is all about that. And there's integrity to the testing procedure too.

I think there's a middle ground because these individuals can take it anywhere. So to your point, there is a lot of stress with test taking. I had to drive to South Holland to take my teaching certification exam. I did not pass it the first time. So the second time driving out there to take it was very stressful. Right? When I took the GRE, I signed up for a time slot at Joliet Junior College at the Renaissance Center, at a testing center, and I went there. So they have, you know, protocol here in the room. So individuals are taking they can go they can take it home in the library or wherever. Right?

But what if there was a partnership with the local university or or a school where they go into a facility where there's an impact? So there's multiple days that they could come in for testing. Maybe it's not whenever they want. Right? We're gonna do testing over the next two weeks. These are the hours you can come in and take this test, and it's a controlled environment. So they still have to go somewhere to take it, but it's not so limited that they only have this one day, this one time

to do it? Unfortunately, that's how the testing companies operate because of the time frame that we end with hiring. The most I've ever seen that they've maybe done it back to back or in the same day morning session, and then afternoon session. I I have seen that happen. Like I said, we're just trying to figure out the best path and trying to get the the most qualified applicants. I mean, that's what we're looking for.

We have a multi year contract with this testing company.

I think it's a reoccurring. It's the same vendor we've used for many many years.

So maybe we have to look at a different vendor. I mean, I don't know the the cost. Right? Of course, that's gonna be taken into consideration. But I think, you know, it's 2026. I do get showing up, dressing up, looking good, taking your test. I do get that. But also people's work schedule. Right? You know, what if that test even though it's in the morning and afternoon, but I work somewhere where if I take off, I'm gonna get fired.

And there's no guarantee that I'm getting this job. So if there's opportunity, and I guess this will be in the HR capacity to find or see if there's another testing company. I don't know. I I'm not sure what this test is. If it's if it's the test that's used across Illinois, across Illinois, and, again, the Midwest. I don't know. If it's just conditional to Joliet's. Like, did we who created the test? Right? Who owns the test?

It's a civil service exam. It's pretty basic across the state.

Oh, we could find somebody else.

Well, this testing company will do what we want. They'll do what we want.

They'll do what we want?

Yeah. They'll they'll if we want online, they'll do it. If we want in person, they'll do in person. You know? So think having

a centralized location or locations Mhmm. And I hate to bring up Pearson, but Pearson is a huge testing company. Right? They have multiple at places in Chicago, places in Joliet, you can go and take the test and give people a little bit more flexibility versus just that one day every how often is the test with the nurse here on average? A year? Like

Well, our list just depends on if we exhaust it. So, like, we're we just we have an application that just closed today. So we're already on our next hiring cycle.

Okay. I think we could find a way to kinda give a what's the word I'm looking for? A mix of it being in person but still online. Right? And and I just think there's a lot of companies out there that could probably administer this test like you said. It's a civil civil service test and having more than one day. I'm just thinking, like, a lot of people let's say it's on a Saturday, but if I work weekends, how could I ever take this test? Yeah. I mean,

we could look at what else is what other testing companies in the future. But like I said, you know, we have a we just closed up an application today. So, I mean, this is the future future we can think about it and seek out other avenues, I guess.

Okay. Anybody have anything else? That was it. That was all I had for discussion. If you have anything else as far as this goes, is this entered into record then? I mean, that's that's the letter. It's just gonna say from human resource now. Okay. Very good. That's all done.

Anything else? Nothing for discussion? Nope. Let's see where we at. Joliet fire department agenda item. Due to a, clerical error, the new hire eligibility list, for Juliet fire will have to be, resigned by all board members. There was a clerical error that got, corrected. So the new corrected list, we will, have to, resign. Let's see. Next, we have closed session. I, I need a, motion to go into closed session.

Motion. Second.

All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? None. We will go into closed session. Okay. I need a motion to come back into open session.

Motion. Second.

Very good. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, we are back in open session. One item that we need to vote on as a board is to amend the new fire list due to the clerical error. We'll have to bring that up as a motion.

I'll make the motion. Second.

Very good. Roll call. Commissioner Potts? Aye. Commissioner Coleman?

Aye.

Commissioner Strocia? Aye. And commissioner Stefanski? That will pass. And the amendment, we'll be signing the amend the amended copy a little later. Very good. We also need to add something to the secretary's report. That would be on the police side. Applicant number 14, Donovan Starks, withdrew earlier today, 04/1326 prior to this meeting. Withdrew from the list, consideration from our list, of hire.

And that's it for the the the added secretary's report item. Okay. Chief number oh, I'm sorry. I'll I'll bring I'll bring each one up here. Hold on. On the police side, we have we need I need a motion to consider the hiring of Miguel Avila, applicant number 10. Motion. Second. Roll call. Commissioner Potts? Aye. Commissioner Coleman?

Aye.

Commissioner Strocia? Aye. And commissioner Stefanski, aye. Applicant number 10, Miguel Avila, has been conditionally hired pending a successful vision and physical exam. On the police side again, applicant number 11, Christopher Thunhurst. I need a motion to consider the hire of applicant 11, Christopher Thunhurst. Motion. Second. Very good. Roll call. Commissioner Coleman? Aye. Commissioner Potts? Aye. Commissioner Strocia?

Aye. And commissioner Stefanski? Aye. Christopher Thunhurst will be conditionally hired with the Joliet Police Department pending a successful vision and physical exam. Applicant number 12, a Tavares Moore. I need a motion to consider the hire of Tavares Moore applicant number 12.

Motion. Second.

Roll call. Commissioner Coleman?

Aye.

Commissioner Potts? Aye. Commissioner Strocia? Aye. And commissioner Stefanski? Aye. K. Applicant number 12, Tavares Moore, is conditionally hired with Joliet Police Department pending successful vision and physical exam. And that should cover it. That's it for the the new hires. Very good. We have Mister? Lateral officers. The approve the approval? Yes.

Oh, hiring of where we at here? All three are lateral officers for the record. Oh, yeah. That's what you wanted. You would just find a lateral officer record. Yep. Very good. Very good. They are lateral officers. Very good.

Approval of Joliet Police promotions list. Do we have that handy? Just so you have it, we'll have to We should have it there. You do have it there. So, yeah, everybody stick around because okay.

Very good. Very good. We we do need to motion it up for the approval of the Joliet Police Promotions list.

Motion.

Second. And roll call, commissioner Coleman? Aye. Commissioner Potts? Aye. Commissioner Strocia? Aye. And commissioner Stefanski, aye. Very good. Next item, new or old business, not for final action or recommendation. Anybody have any new or old business? Hearing none, we'll move on to public comment. Any public comment? Hearing none, I want a motion to, adjourn the meeting. Motion. Second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Very good. Meeting adjourned.