Joliet Historic Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

We're gonna call to order the City of Joliet Historic Preservation Commission for Wednesday, January 22. It is 6PM. Can we have a roll call?

Yes. Adamowski? Absent. Bessler? Absent. Cannon? Absent. Heinemann? Absent. Johnson? Here. Lowry? Here. Merwin? Here. McCotis? Absent. Spiegel? Here. Stovall? Here. Wright? Here. Okay. You have quorum with six voting members present.

Okay. The next would be the approval of the meeting minutes or a discussion of the meeting minutes for approval for the preservation regular meeting of December '24. Are there any changes or amendments to the meeting minutes? Okay. If not, can I have a motion to approve the meeting minutes?

I'll make a motion. I'll second then.

Okay. Spiegel motioned. Oops. Spiegel motioned, and Wright seconded. Okay. Johnson? Aye. Lowry? Aye. Merwin? Aye. Spiegel? Aye. Stoevel? Aye. Wright?

Aye. Okay.

Okay. Next on the agenda would be citizens to be heard on agenda items.

Is anyone

in the attendance that would like to get up and speak during this time?

Hi. How are you?

Hi. Hello.

I'm Randall Bailey. I represent the Whitney Terrace Historic District. And I just wanted to come tonight to just to tell you exactly some of the reasons why we want to have that rescinded from our homes. Just a brief summary, it's not going be long, but think 2006 is when we all agreed to form the historic district. Four of us out of the six homes are still the same homeowners.

And the reasons why we we we wanted to be we want to get out of this is first, we were led to believe that it was an all or nothing thing. That each each of us had to agree to it. I believe we've come to find out that it could have been done little piecemeal, could have been done by home rather than all six of us. Regardless, we we all went along with it. Additionally, we were kind of told that the the historic preservation for our homes, which we all are in agreement with, would be contingent upon the front facing or street facing parts of our home.

And the back parts, alley facing, wouldn't be as affected. That certainly isn't true because we've all tried to replace things that certainly don't face the street. And we've we've been in front of this board and and been denied permits to get some of that work done based on the materials that we were going to use. That brings up the other point is that it's so restrictive. You know, we wanna preserve the look of the homes, but the committee seems to wanna preserve the materials of those of the home. For example, with window replacements, I have a Tudor home that has 43 windows.

It

can get quite cumbersome and costly, especially when the committee is requiring me to use wood or fiberglass as opposed to other materials. So it's very restrictive, and we can't afford to fix our own homes, which I think is the opposite of what the whole idea was. Trying to preserve these homes. We were also led to believe that there would be money in the form of grants to help us when we wanted to preserve our homes. So we could use materials that we might not normally be able to afford.

But that's that was, I guess, just a flat out lie. It certainly isn't available today to us or has never been made available to us upon asking. So there were just a lot of things along the way that just didn't seem to be really what it was. Last but not least, we can't get true value for our homes being in the historic district because we've had two, like I said, sold because there's four that still are there. But they believe that they couldn't get true value for their home because the new homeowners coming in had a negotiating point with the historic district.

Because if they have to replace all these windows, that's going be extremely costly. So they weren't allowed to get fair value. And I believe that, because I've actually had my home in the market before. We didn't move, obviously. But that was a sticking point when we went we did get to the point where there was a negotiation, and we obviously backed out. But that was a sticking point. So, it's been restrictive, and I believe it's hurting our property values more than it's helping. So I just wanted to just say that. I don't know. This isn't a question and answer thing, I don't believe.

So if it is, you can be more than happy. I'll answer anything. But just wanted to kinda and I represent the the terrorists tonight, so I hope you can we we kind of all communicate together. So that's that's where we're at.

Okay. Thank you so

You're welcome. Okay.

Next on the agenda would be committee reports. Currently, we have none. Then we have old business. We currently do not have any. So new business would be the preliminary review, LHD1Dash1Dash2025. Rescind the local historic district designation from the Whitney Terrace local historic district. This would include 412, 414, 416, 418420, and 422 Whitney Avenue and its associated common area.

Okay. I'm gonna read a staff report into the record. So for an overview, the residents of Whitney Terrace Subdivision submitted an application to rescind designation of their six slot subdivision, which is 412, 414416418420, and 422 Whitney Terrace. Rescind designation as local historic district. The purpose of this preliminary review tonight is to understand the applicant's request and to identify any additional information that applicant or staff could reasonably produce for further Historic Preservation Commission review at a future public hearing.

Jane, could you put the report up on the screen? Do you

want pictures or the report?

I guess when we get to the pictures or whatever. It it doesn't matter, but sometimes it's helpful just to have that on the screen.

Yeah. No. That's why I have I have this here. I mean, I'd be happy to Okay. Pull up some photos. Hold on. Let me just do it. Change the Adobe on me. Okay. Wait.

Okay. Okay. Alright. So for background and context, the Whitney Terrace Local Historic District was designated as a local historic district by the city council on 07/18/2006. Whitney Terrace Local Historic District consists consists of six unique Tudor residences surrounding a landscape common area that were built between 1923 and 1929.

The Enclave is the only one of its kind known in Joliet. Although modern subdivisions of common areas owned jointly by all homeowners, they are invariably built well outside the developed core of a city and their houses are usually limited to two or three designs. This local historic district is also within the boundaries of the Upper Bluff National Register Historic District. Whitney Terrace was designed by local architect, Levon Seran. Levon Seran, born in Chicago to Armenian Turkish parents, likely gained interest in architecture from his father, who was a draftsman and mechanical engineer for the US Steel Company.

Raised in Joliet, Serrano attended MIT and opened his own architecture practice in Joliet. He also worked as a real estate broker. The six houses on Whitney Terrace are some of his earliest designs. He also acted as the associate architect Skidmore, Owings, and Merrill for the 1957 design of Gompers Junior High School in Joliet. Serran died in 1975.

Under discussion, all six property owners within the six lot Whitney Terrace local historic district desire to rescind local historic designation status for their properties. Owner consent forms for all six property owners are attached to this staff report packet. Their application for rescinding designation status states that they feel that local historic district designation costs too much to uphold and is too restrictive. The application also states that there were false promises made as to financial benefits that will be afforded to properties that chose to place preservation restrictions on their homes. Staff offered to meet with Whitney Terrace residents to listen to and discuss any concerns regarding designation.

The residents decided not to meet with staff regarding the matter. Under staff's recommendation for tonight is that in addition to any other information requested by the commission at this preliminary review, staff recommends that the commissions schedule this petition for a public hearing at its next regular meeting, which is currently scheduled for Wednesday, 02/26/2025. And that concludes staff's report.

Okay. Is there any current discussion by the commission members regarding this? Technically, right now, you could also ask questions to the applicant if need be. Is there any discussion?

It's more of a Jane question. With it being part of the Upper Bluff Historic District, will there be any how does there's no

There's no yeah. They're totally separate.

Okay.

Yeah. Upper Bluff is a National Register Historic District. So Right. This will always still be part of that regardless.

Okay. Yeah.

What is the difference?

So the National Register Historic District is c 10. Yeah. It's It's honorary. Doesn't impose any restrictions on private property owners.

Has the city of Joliet ever had grants for facade improvements?

Yes, they have. Yes, they are. The representative, Mr. Bailey, came through, there was money. It wasn't much money. Back in 2006, I believe the city still had the $2,000 Facade Improvement Grant. And it was to local landmarks, local districts. I can't remember if it was the National Register or not. From 2006 on, it wasn't in existence much longer, because I believe in 2008 is when that grant program was taken away because of the economy. And buildings stopped, and most cities didn't have much money.

And the city did stop that. So from the city's point of view, that was there. There's also, from the state, there's the property tax freeze. I'm trying to think. It seems like I can't remember the other name of them. So there were. I mean, there are regulations on them, but they did exist.

To the best of your knowledge, are any still available?

The property tax freeze Well, yeah.

Yeah. The property tax assessment freeze program is run by the state of Illinois. It's open to owner occupied households or properties that have to either be locally designated or part of National Register Historic District. The tax assessment freeze program is for properties that have to apply that are undergoing renovations to the house. So they would work with their state staff architects, and, you know, they the state would have to approve their renovations that will be in accordance with state or with the, excuse me, the federal secretary of the interior standards.

I, every once in while, do touch base with state staff. They have I haven't done it this year, but in the past, they haven't they have not had a Joliet Property come through their review in quite some time. Coincidentally, I just sat with a with someone who did, Bonnie Horn. Some of you may know her, but there was a probably about 10 properties that received assistance through that program back in the time frame when that tornado came through Western Avenue. I wasn't living here in Illinois at

time. Thousand four, I think.

But since then, they haven't really had any applicants for that. But that's that's the only existing financial incentive available to private property owners for owner occupied housing at the state. City hasn't had a grant program or any available to for this in quite quite some time.

Did that go away during any time frame from 2006 to now?

No. Okay. So essentially a building permit application would trigger the eligibility to apply for this and then it be on the basis of the renovation? Or like so I guess what I'm asking is are they still

subject The state to program? Yeah.

Like I guess what I'm getting at is is the freeze based off of improved value due to renovation or is

it Yes.

A freeze that applies in general? So like for example, every property in this city got a 10 and a half percent property tax increase last year?

My understanding, it's based on the improved value of the house.

Due to Due to the rent permit.

Yes. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

The other thing that Mr. Bailey mentioned was about alterations that are made street facing, which is true. The thing about one one of the things as I was going through the report is sometimes garages are kind of a touchy subject and what's on the back of the house. You mentioned permits. If somebody's doing something with a garage, chances are they're probably gonna have to get a building permit. Right, Jean? But but to come here would be a certificate of appropriateness. Now that, depending on where the garage is, might trigger certificate of appropriateness. Is that right, Jane? Yeah.

I mean yeah. I mean, if if somebody's reroofing a garage and it's like for like whatever, that's just a regular building permit, and you have to get a building permit for that. I mean, a roof, you have to get a building permit. Yeah. Okay. But if you if, you know, some of I think one of the houses has kind of more of a front facing garage. If that were some big changes being made to that or a significant change, that would probably trigger a CA. Right?

Yes. I mean, I I guess my staff count would be that, you know, I'm gonna use mister Bailey's house as a case in point. So he did come before the commission a couple of years ago because the of these the common and the common pathway, you know, the commission at the time determined that the sides of his house were visible from The street. Well, from the the the public way. Okay.

The rear of the house is not mean, it's on an alley, you know, but that was the matter at hand at that time. So that was that was what was under review. You know, there has been work done on houses in the district that are rear alley facing, and they have not come before the commission because I've handled those administratively. So I

I was just trying to make the difference between a building permit and a certificate of appropriateness.

Okay.

So yeah. One of my other questions is I know you mentioned window replacement, and, again, that gets to be, you know, there's varying opinions. I know I was much more of a purist. Like, yeah, do wood windows. It's getting very difficult, a, to find them, b, to afford them. And I know we approved fiberglass. Correct. My windows. Oh, okay. I'm sorry.

And that was not easy to get done. Yeah.

I I I realized fiberglass is expensive. I think Erin had mentioned that when you hopefully, anybody is buying windows, I don't care how modest or how great your house is, it's those are parts of a house that just kinda take a beating. And you wanna buy those for the long haul, I think. And when I look at home improvement centers and they're selling, or the ones on TV that are selling vinyl windows, it's like you're buying those for the short haul. I mean, if you get like a one or two year warranty, it's it's like, like, oh, I'll just replace them.

But to me, the labor costs are terrible. So the whole window replacement, I realize, is kind of, people have varying opinions on it, but probably more from a sustainability and just a durability. Depending on the materials you use, to me it's in the homeowner's best interest to use something that you're going to have for a while. And just my own personal opinion, or experience trying to get work done besides the materials, there's people that are not well versed in, I don't care if it's new construction, old construction, whatever, and trying to get work done well that is going to last your home and add to the integrity of home, I would agree, is difficult. So I'm just kind of expressing, you know, this is probably more my opinion as a commissioner.

But, you know, sometimes we're looked at like, oh, they won't approve this, they won't approve that. But to me, there's reasons for it, you know. And to maintain the integrity of your home, again, whether you're very modest, you're a condo, you're whatever, I think that's in everybody's best interest, not only as a homeowner, but other neighbors and and people who are looking to move here, people looking to stay here. So that's just kind of my interest.

Is there any other issues, comments, questions regarding their requests that we need to obtain before we have someone make a motion to put this to a public hearing? If there isn't, then we would need a motion to move this to a public hearing, which at our February 26 meeting.

I'll make a motion.

I'll second.

Was Sharon as the second?

Yes. Yeah.

So we have motion and a second to schedule this petition, which is LHD one twenty twenty five for a public hearing at the February the next meeting, which I said was currently scheduled for February 26. Alright. Let's do a roll. We have Adamowski is absent. Gannon is absent. Heinemann is absent. Johnson? Aye. Lowry? Aye. Merwin? Aye. Spiegel? Aye. Stoeble? Aye. Wright? Aye. Okay. So this will be at a public hearing next month.

Jane, can can I just could you just scroll to wherever it is that it's the inventory on the houses, where it's kind of like the table and it just has all the little specs on it? Isn't that part of the But even just rain? I think it's the other way.

He didn't say anything. Okay. Oh,

Okay. Yeah, any one of these pages. That's fine. I was trying to look at it mentions basement, porch, whatever, but there's usually, I could not find like a topic that was consistent that is like garage or parking. And I remember when this became district, you know, there were kind of questions, what about garages, garages? What about parking? And I'm just wondering if did was this done by who did the reports?

These surveys were done by the Lakota group.

Okay. Just, you know, going forward, if that could be mentioned. Because, again, you know, sometimes people look at us like, well, you're not even taking into account a garage or parking or whatever, and that's something people,

you know, pretty that the forms are missing information about the garages?

Yes.

Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I hear you. And I also flagged that for the consultant at the time. Mhmm. The so this form that they used was part of the Ruskin Arc

Oh, okay.

In which that company folded. Mhmm. So where I'm going with this is that each one of these properties does have information about the garages, but they were tied to the the website portal. Yeah. So I do have that somewhere, but these forms, the the auto population of those is from a template, and and he could not it was not able to just seamlessly go into it. It's just like

over Maybe I

explained it well, but it was frustrating. And we tried to see if there was a workaround, but there wasn't.

It's just like when this was named, know, it's like what was going on. And then when it comes forward, because

Yeah.

You know, we gave a C of A, what, a couple, two years ago to that one on Western. So it's just it's like, this is what it was. This is any changes. And it's helpful for everybody, So Yep.

Okay. Okay. Next on the agenda would be the 2025 annual historic preservation plan framework.

I just have a question. Yeah. What agenda are you looking at? Is it the one that was

On the web on

the website. Website. Does it have the election of chair and vice chair on your agenda?

Not until later on down the line.

Okay. No. It's fine.

Do want me to just Nope. Go back

to No.

Seven a? No. Because mine does not have that

from the website. The one that's that you should be using.

Okay.

No. You're right. Okay. Okay. No. We're good.

I don't even have a seven on there. So

Yeah. You're fine. Okay. I'll close this. Okay. So this is a recap. The first one we're gonna talk about is the review in 2024 year end review. Again, I could go through these one by one if you want. We you I can do we could just I can just ask if there's any questions about I'll just ask. I'll do that. K. Do anyone have any questions about staff's comments on whether or not these were executed and how in the manner of which they were done Okay. On the first page or the second, third.

Do the under the update, the certificate of appropriateness under stewardship of designated properties, do we do we have kind of a idea what we you know, do we have a focus on that or what?

Yeah. So, I mean, staff just didn't didn't move forward with updating it. I it it just it just didn't happen.

Okay. Okay.

You know, I the the form right now has been streamlined Yeah. Since I've since I've I've been here. You know, every every applicant I've worked with in the for the last couple years is different, so I'm not even sure a more detailed one would would matter in some ways. It's every person kinda fills it out their own way. What I try to do is is to just continue to work with the applicant.

And if I see something that's missing, like, they just they just fill it out or I help them fill it out. So that's kinda, I guess, why it fell off of the high priority list for us. Mhmm. But it's I I kept it on for their 2025 action plan just because I still think it's something for us to aspire to and and to continue to reevaluate to make sure that we're you know, that the process is clear and it ensures more prompt and predictable permitting for the property owner.

Mhmm.

So I would recommend keeping it on for the 2025.

And then just just going down I'm sorry. I don't wanna be beat you on that. But review the data input process and efficiency of the city's building permit software program. The our properties are still flagged. If somebody comes in and wants a permit, it's still like, oh, wait a minute.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The the kink is still there in the sense that sometimes well, the system is designed to not issue the the permit in the end if it's not released by myself or Helen here. The so that's the stop stop gap at the end.

The the problem is that's at the end. So Okay. Mean, I there has been very few situations where it's got all the way to the end of the process, and then, you know, I have we have to work with the property owner because they didn't go through the through the the right process. Most of this stuff is that I release as holds is the hold is on the building permit is administratively reviewed by staff, so it doesn't ever come to the commission. So, usually, you guys I mean, you see only the the big things, things that are essentially variances.

Mhmm.

Anything else, Sharon?

I don't think so. I'm flipping. Not really. It it's like some of the things, it's like, you know, they were carried over or whatever, and that's fine.

Does anybody have any anybody have anything else for the 2024?

I mean, I I'll just I'll just say too. I mean, this commission's done a lot to I mean, you oversaw a lot in 2024. This still guides staff's work and priorities.

Staff does a lot, and so do the museum people and whatever. So you guys do a lot.

You know, and some of this stuff took longer. I mean, I you know, I think I'm trying to remember when we got notified that we got funding for the Route 66 Park. You know, that was a really short time frame. We had to jump all in to get that project done. And I think it turned out good. But so try to be a little flexible.

Okay. So next would be the 2025. Right?

Yep. Okay. This I'd like to go through a little bit more in detail. So under educate the public about historic resources does everyone have a copy? If not, I can pull it up on the screen too. Okay. There's because there's copies up here. So, you know, again, we we really lean on the month of May to promote Joliet's unique historic resources. I think a goal would still to be creating a programmatic calendar for historic preservation month. I think, you know, Candice, you and I touched base earlier this week.

I think there's opportunities for the commission to really help shape that month too. So I think we really should try to do that in April and March of this year.

Okay.

You know, we utilize social media for pushing out this information, so I would still like to do the daily Facebook posts about Joliet Architecture and and our special places. I've been told by our digital media coordinator. I can't remember her actual title. Jenny Garcia that that those usually get a lot of great feedback. You know, positively, we also have a social excuse me, a media and communications director here now.

So she's also helping to really think through our our plan for this kind of stuff. And I think there's an opportunity for the commission to sponsor or cosponsor a program during the month of May. In the past, they partnered with the museum. There could be other opportunities for partnerships. So I'd recommend keeping that under a a goal and then action. I have down partner with the museum and other comparable organizations, again, to cosponsor an educational program, potentially leaning on research that the historic preservation commission has already sponsor has sponsored.

Do we have a tourism bureau or anything like that?

There's the Heritage Corridor, which is

Yeah.

Tourism e.

They're our regional entity in our partner. So and they help they've they've helped usher in a lot of funding that we've done to execute heritage preservation type projects here in the city as as well as to our partner organizations like the museum.

Do you know if the downtown walking tours is going to continue this year or if that is you know what mean?

Yeah. We we've talked about that, the museum staff. I think there is interest in restarting those. Personally, I think I'm able to probably do at least one or two this year now. That's my goal.

We're kinda talking internally what that looks like again. Is that Saturday mornings? I don't know. Jane, you did yours on Friday nights.

Yeah. I did it on Friday nights to drive business to our or drive people to the businesses afterwards. Would

you be open as, like, training museum staff I'm giving those tours who might not be as familiar with the downtown? And then maybe we could alternate it, like, one month do a Friday evening and one month do a Saturday morning. Mhmm. That way, number one, it wasn't the same time and day every month. It might attract a different crowd.

Yep.

What

about local businesses offering some kind of incentive to get people in door, like a free ice cream scoop or something like that? The part, like, to sort of dovetail off of people getting engaged with our local architecture.

Yeah. Like a free drink from Juliet. Or Right. Yeah.

I was gonna say, when the Route 66 Park was open, wasn't there didn't Virgin didn't they have, like, free ice cream or something like that? Or you gotta buy one, get one free or something like that? I thought that

that was The kind the city paid for that, for the attendees. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, the Heritage Corridor could help us pay for the

free Incentives. Yeah.

From the restaurants. Does that make sense?

Well well, yeah. We also we also have a oh, wow. I'm drawing a blank on this.

The CCP, the City Center Partnership?

No. No. Downtown the development Chamber

of Commerce?

Yes. Chamber of Commerce. Thank you.

Well, technically, there's three entities that could be assisting with this.

Yeah.

You know

what mean? I mean, that they could all each pitch in essentially.

Yeah. What do we know when will construction on Chicago Street be? Because I'm Never. I mean, that's

I mean, the the city staff has always keeps saying that our goal is to have the project done by the 2025. Mhmm. We are on schedule and targets still to have that done.

I mean, there's other streets besides just Chicago Street, but I've just you know, mean, some things there that you described

in reconstruction is that's one project. Then, of course, there's the water main project that's going on also through not just in their downtown, but throughout the city. So that's that's gonna be ongoing until Whenever. We tap in. Yeah.

Okay. Any more comments related to partnering with the Joliet area Historical Museum and other comparable organizations? And we just talked about walking tours.

Yeah. I don't know. I mean I would like just to see the chamber of commerce and some other like local businesses maybe get participate more. I just think of our architectural assets as being a actual tourist draw but we may not be marketing We're not that

marketing it at all.

In a way that is putting us on the map.

So Okay. I mean, when you look at the difference between, like, our downtown and then you go to, like, New Lenox and Sherwood that recreated a downtown with their government buildings. It's like two way two different things.

Yeah. Not

that this is obtainable, but something cool would be like a walking tour where they each have their own little itemized QR code on their door that you could scan it. And it would give you information about the business, but then it would also give you information about the building's history.

Mhmm. Yeah.

You know what mean? Or a cool, quirky fact about something that happened there. You know I Right. Like the the one building had a bowling alley in the basement. Do you know what I mean? Like that would be something interesting and cool.

Yeah. You know,

underbound parking garage that used to be across from the Lily And Joliet apartment. Do know what mean? Like that's not something that's widely known. It's unique. It's weird. I wanna go down there. I don't know if it still exists, but I wanna go. I don't know. You know what I mean?

I I completely agree. I mean, I I still get comments from lot of people that I know, like, oh, Cholla? Oh, there's nothing to do downtown. It's like, woah.

Have you been there?

Yeah. Well, right. And so what's the problem? I mean, we do have things to do downtown. We could probably have more things to do downtown, but I think it's a educational issue. Mhmm.

And, Candace, when you said, like, the Friday night or Saturday morning. Saturday morning, you may be able to get, like, more kids or something like that. And, you know, I mean, kids may be you know, they wanna be monkeying around with their phones and, oh, let's read this. Oh, look. This is cool.

But plus not everyone works on Saturdays. You know

what mean? So

Okay. Alright.

I mean, even something as, like, simpler, like, dumb, like, dumb in the sense of not related architecture, like the Three Rivers Association of Realtors. Like, I could see them sponsoring some of this if they could have their logo on a walk into a brochure or something.

Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Well

more of, like, a local place kinda thing.

Yeah. I mean, and beyond downtown too, we have talked in the past about, again, leaning on the research that's already been done with so the Saint John's neighborhood historic resource survey. Someone could do a tour Mhmm. Through that neighborhood and, you know, that could be something cool that the Yeah. Free Rivers Realtors Association and then Oh, totally. Right. Or Cathedral area, you know, walking tours and Eastern Avenue.

Right. So I could see realtors volunteering to lead tours because it's also kind of marketing for them. Yeah. Talking about houses.

Okay.

Yeah. And the survey work, like, we've done an incredible amount of work surveying all that stuff. Like, it's already there. We just can use it more. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. And under educate the public about historic resources, so staff still kept as a action item is to hold two technical workshops, and I list some potential topics. The state historic preservation office will still come up here to deliver a presentation on financial incentives. The thought last year was that they would come up and do one presentation in the daytime targeting the businesses or property owners in the Downtown Joliet National Register Historic District because that would be a conversation geared towards the federal and state historic tax credit program.

And then the afternoon evening workshop could be targeted would be targeted to owner occupied residents residences about the property tax assessment freeze program. So I would say that's still that's still an option that this commission should pursue.

Do we still have, like, two or three opportunity zones downtown? Probably. I'm not I don't know. Okay. Yeah. I might be able to dovetail some of that stuff.

Yeah. Which also includes the near West Side. It includes our neighborhood as well. So it's not just, like it expands into residential too, which is nice.

Okay. And then under educate the public about historic resources, I have down here again deliver a presentation at the Joliet Landlord Training Conference.

Are we bringing that back?

There was some kind of

We had it place the last two years. Yeah. Yeah. But it's

not a city. It's it's like a part of the it's different?

You are correct. It is no longer sponsored by the city. Yeah. But it was held the last two years.

Yeah. It held in

Last year, was MJJC.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Because I went, I think, in 2023. It's it's very helpful. I mean, because you talk about things that aren't even, like you know, it's like property issues that whether it's landlord or not.

You know I title of

the last year, at least? So in 2023, it was called the housing provider workshop which was not very catching. And so last year it was returned to the Joliet Landlord what else? What are they called? The Joliet landlord workshop, I think.

Okay.

I think we're still

kind They did reach talking about out to get a table and I just couldn't physically So do

yeah. I know next year or this year, I suppose, it'll likely be at JJC again and the format will be shorter. So there was two sessions last year. It's gonna be one session this year, but likely going to be like breakout sessions. And so it'll be like instead of having three main topics, maybe there'll be like six or eight. And they'll each be like an hour long and just repeat. And so there's opportunity for more programming.

Okay. Yeah. Alright. Is there anything else that this commission feels like should be under that category of educate the public about historic resources?

This isn't so much educate the public. It's more like educate the commissioners. You mentioned there was that building historic building summit in Chicago in April. A conference or something.

Yeah, think Landmark's Illinois sponsoring it.

Is Who's that sponsoring it, do you know?

Landmark's Illinois co sponsoring Okay. I'll look it up. You mean, it's geared towards contractors, though, right? It's about the historic building trade summit? Is that Yeah. What Yeah.

Okay. I was going say I don't know if that's necessarily commissioner helpful, Commissioner appropriate? I don't know. I just saw the title of it, it seemed like kind of interesting. To me, that's, as technology changes, sometimes, I mean, you know, Erin, you might really be into that. But I, some of the sessions, you know, I'm sitting there thinking, maybe could I find helpful? Again, when people come in here and talk about certain materials or whatever, it's like, I don't have a clue what they're talking about. Like the Rock and Roll Museum, when they were talking about what they were doing. Those are the kind of things that it's kind of fun to know what that is.

That sort of ties into the address shortage of available and knowledgeable historic preservation minded contractors, which is a problem that gets worse every year.

You know, I'll always say that I was waiting for a little bit more information about the summit. Maybe it's available now. I was gonna reach out to the state historic preservation office and see if they had any recaptured funding from previous CLG rounds that they need to reprogram because I know in the past they have provided scholarships for other conferences. I know I think Sharon, you went on one

Oh, yeah.

To that. Really helpful because some of those conferences

are not cheap. I think if if if they were to say yes or or then that would this would be an opportunity to send local contractors from the area. So I need to reach back out about that.

Okay.

Anything else under that category? Okay. So the next one is stewardship of designated historic properties. The first one is, again, continuing to keep the update, the certificate of appropriateness application form and website to ensure a clear, transparent, prompt, and predictable permitting process. I have continued to put in again to review data input process and efficiency of the city's building permit software program.

Mhmm. I have put in here again, promote applicable workshop opportunities to up to property owners. The challenge with this is that I don't have most of the property owners' emails, so that that's something that we need to keep working towards.

Do we need emails, or can we just mail them something?

So the commission doesn't technically technically have a budget. So, I mean, we mail I mail the holiday card every year. Yeah. And but if we were to mail everything out, the it

it's not

something that we can't think about. I'm just the reality is it's it would

come on the Christmas card, can we request their email address?

Yes. Oh. It's a

good idea. A little survey.

Yeah.

K.

Yep. You can also send it not first class. You can send it you could just do to the residents of, you can send it bulk rate.

Oh, yeah?

That'll save you a lot of money.

Explore bulk rate per Ken. Okay.

Hopefully, they don't throw it away if it says residents. They They will.

Okay.

They do them all the time for different clients.

Alright. And then, yes, again, I have here as an as an ongoing issue is the address the shortage of available and knowledgeable historic preservation minded contractors. So that down. I have established a building permit fee waiver program that was listed before last year and explore waiver of other development fees. I did have a meeting with the city manager and mayor, and I did talk to them about this, and they are supportive of exploring it.

Really? So exploring it. That's a step. Yeah. So with that as a green light, we're gonna explore how that has worked in other cities, what what would how what that would it what would be the implications of that here. So that would be something I really would like to prioritize for this calendar year.

Because, like, the malt house just got was just on the agenda last night.

Oh, yes. Yeah.

The which house? The malt house on Summit Street, 515 Summit Street Okay. For the winery Oh,

okay.

To turn it into the apartments because in order to whatever. They had to go back up to get reapproved. I I didn't watch the meeting. But, like, for them, I'm I'm assuming that they're gonna be charged a development fee, an impact development fee again. And they already paid over $5 just in their last impact development fee, not including the one to rebuild the caverns and tunnels, now not including what they would have to pay for this. So that would be three on top of permit costs,

on top Well, they're two different projects. So

Yes.

I can't speak to the development fee component, but, yeah, it's quite clear that their their proposed project is separate from the winery.

Okay. Yeah.

Well, I think tonight's public comments are strong indication that this should be a priority for the city.

Okay. Yep. Duly noted. Next is I continue to do this the holiday card project as a method of communicating updates and recognizing property owner contribution to preserving Joliet's heritage. Next, I have meet with the residents of the Upper Bluff Local Historic District. And then I have kept the review

What would be the agenda for that?

The agenda would be just to to meet with the residents and understand any concerns they have to go over the certificate appropriateness process, talk I mean yeah. K. Yep. But then I've kept the review applicability of existing building code and building inspection process for designated and undesignated historic buildings that was requested before.

Which should still be look at that sliding scale thing still for that.

Yep. Okay. That's all I have for under stewardship of designated historic properties. Okay. Okay.

And then the next category is promote historic resources. The first one is to encourage use of the residential and commercial design guidelines manual, and as then actions related to that is to obtain funding for the printing of those. And then the other would be to work with the city center partnership to encourage commercial design guide use of the commercial design guidelines manual. So my thought there would be is to hold a workshop or a series of workshops and or make you know, print things or PDFs available too that would really show what that would look like for them.

Question. Could the CCP also post it into their downtown Facebook page? And then could they also email it to all their downtown businesses? Because they have email address for a lot of the businesses that are down there.

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure they could. They they I haven't approached them, so it's not that they haven't done it. Okay. The next one is to ensure that the city's historic resources are considered during the city's comprehensive plan process. So as action items would be to review examples of other preservation plans, sponsor historic preservation heritage tours and workshop, and then review and comment on draft comprehensive plan. So, again, the comprehensive plan has not necessarily launched in a public facing way yet, so stay tuned on what how that's gonna roll out.

And that's separate from that r r three thing. Right? The r?

Urban?

Yes. Yes. Urban three. Urban the

Urban three project is is is the actual project is an economic analysis of the city, citywide. That is what you can think of as a a stand alone project that's gonna, like, feed into the information of the comprehensive plan. So it would essentially kinda fold into the existing conditions analysis of the city.

Okay.

That's still on target to wrap up by the by the beginning of the summer, we're being told. So

Okay.

Okay. Next is review and update the city's preservation website to ensure alignment with ongoing and recently completed projects. I'll I'll just note. I was gonna say this later on her staff comments that the Downtown Joliet National Register Historic District project is officially closed out. They have submitted everything except for the print printed versions. I still have to get those from her. But everything else has been submitted to the city, so I just need to work with my colleague here, Trinesia, to get those uploaded to our website. But we have them available now.

Is that something the city is gonna do, like a like a

Announcement?

Yeah. An announcement type of thing. Like, could it be on

We should. So that's that's yeah.

Go ahead.

Yep. Did they owe us a public presentation?

No. No. Okay.

I did

She actually did it a long time ago. Yeah.

Was I there?

Yeah. That was a

long time ago. Yeah. And then I I did it too. I mean

I remember it was before the whole church the Saint Joseph's Church thing because I remember she was talking about, you know, some of the things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Way before that.

Okay. Yep. Then under promote historic resources, I have listed is to monitor the successful completion of ongoing projects. So as a reminder, we have the Joliet area African American historic context study, which I'll talk about in understaffed comments. And then the Route 66 Centennial, still working on promoting that.

A new project is the IUD Des Plaines River Bridge community plan. That project is retaining preservation futures to help them really make sure they are documenting the history of that neighborhood as part of their project. And they plan to do oral history preservation futures will be doing oral history work through that project targeting that area. And then I have down the Juliet comprehensive plan.

Question for the Route 66 Centennial, are we not also do helping with their we should no. We should also be helping the Rialto do their Centennial. Correct? I mean, isn't that something else that we should be assisting with or at least seeing if there's anything that we can help them?

I think it's worth reaching out. Right?

Yeah. Because I will because it'll be a a I don't remember the word that you guys came up with last time for having a dual

centennial. Dip.

For having a dual centennial. You know

what mean?

Also the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the United States. Yeah. That was true. Yeah.

July See, we should do that.

Central, hundred and twenty fifth.

Lord Jesus. We need a lot. We could do a lot.

We need a lot of cakes. And there was something else too.

A lot of cakes. Yeah. We should have, like, an alumni of Central's, like, celebration for their hundred and twenty fifth.

Yeah. The the thing with Central is that that's the building's anniversary. The and the district has a different history. And then, of course, there was a public high school before nineteen o one as well. So Yeah. Central is best, so it's okay. It's a lot of years.

Could I just bring up This is not necessarily for this year, but maybe something to keep in mind as the African American Historic Context Study is done. I think this was a landmark, one of the preservation snapshots about the Green Book tours. When the study is done, were there any Green Book sites? And the Green Book was a book that African Americans had that was like, this is a safe place to stay.

It was safe

to go there.

We also had the Brown Book.

Was it the Brown Book? Can't We remember

knew that. Is a Brown Book.

Okay. Okay. But

In the South, was a green book.

Oh, okay. Okay. But I know it seems like whenever I learned this, it seems like there was interest that people would want to know what these places were. And like, you know, like take the tour. Here's your little stop off place.

Amazing if we had a copy of the Brown book. Does the museum have a copy? Because then

we online.

Oh, is it?

Whole thing? Mhmm.

Well, I'll just show you because it relates to our

accent.

And so

state or, like, by region or something.

Here. So we did

Photo. Sheeshaw. Yeah.

It wouldn't be amazing to have an original and then to do a tour of each stop.

Yep. That's what I was thinking is because I thought there was like oral histories, if people really knew about that.

So as part of our effort again to update our web page to reflect our projects, It is up here, so I just wanna show you. We did update this. I'll talk about this later, but just to answer that. So under known resources, Yeah. Greg's. We got the museum's exhibit. You should be able to Yeah. We're here. This, and then it

brings up was up.

I didn't know I could click on it. Okay.

We just we that that's something new within the last two weeks. So I'll talk about that in a little couple minutes. That's so exciting. Okay.

K. So we need to yeah.

And then to answer your question, Sharon, about that green the green Or the brown book. Whatever. That's part of the Yeah. Their their obligation is to flush that out. Yeah. Okay. Then I have sponsored the annual historic preservation awards program. This always catches up or sneaks up on me, I should say. So the call for nominations, though, should go out March 1, and I put a placeholder on my

Oh, Patrick Haley Mansion should get one. Already have a nomination.

So that's an ongoing thing that this commission does, and I put that there.

So start thinking now, guys.

Actually, I'm thinking it too.

And then I have down survey properties on the endangered property list and regularly update and review the list of endangered historic properties. And then a a commission goal will be to nominate or encourage nomination of at least one property as a landmark. Is there anything else that you'd like to include?

We should have an RIP list. We should have an RIP list.

Yeah. From the beginning, it's yeah. We lost the stealing. I'm sorry. You know I'm always asking wacky questions.

Is I'm trying to think I'm sure there are, but of any of our local landmarks or anything in a local district, are any of them single family rental? And Yes. You know, like when you were saying, like, the resident, it's like, if I'm living there and I'm the resident, I'm like, I don't want this. Well, really, that should be the owner. And I'm just wondering, is that a is that a big deal to bring up? Like, if you mash these two databases together and, like, okay. Give me the historic properties that are single family rental. You know, because I think it should be sent Especially if it's owned by an LLC and

not only with the LLC. Single family. It means 600 Broadway is a four unit.

I think it should

With be sent any kind of multifamily.

To I think it should be sent to both though, the renter and the landlord. And my reason being a lot of times, certain landlords do not do the updates and improvements to the home.

They don't care. That then You got that right on

the next door to one.

That then causes the tenant to go and do those. And if the tenant is not aware where the homeowner's aware or the property

owner may yeah. They don't they don't know the whole gig. Correct. Where where the owner is responsible to

There's a lot of of lack of of communication between the whole scenario.

Or or the the the you know, some landlords are just like, oh, just do whatever you want. You know, the the tenant's like, oh, I can fix this, and god only knows. You know? It's what they do. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know

if there's a way to address that.

You know, and especially, you know, like in Bicentennial Bluffs, Cunningham, whatever. We don't have that many landmarks. But, yeah, people are just, you know, oh, whatever.

You know?

Like, you know, when when we were mentioning about, you know, historic contractors or stuff like that, again, to me, finding anybody to do work with integrity is like a huge chore. But anyway

I think it would be nice if we found contractors that were decent and knew historical stuff and then gave a discount to landmark properties.

Mhmm. Well, a problem I've run into owning a property like

this is

is that yeah. No permits. But also that once a contractor finds out and they make they're probably very qualified. Once they find out you're part of a historic district, they just walk away. They want nothing to do with you.

Or it's the opposite of a discount.

Yeah. They just walk

away.

I know.

But that's just because in my opinion, they're in some ways, they're uneducated on what that means. There's a lot of misinformation out there about what exactly that means. And normally, they feel it's going to make their job 10 times harder, which in fact, sometimes it it does not because Jane can approve it administratively. You know what I mean? And so that's a misconception that people are spreading that it's more difficult to work with the commission in order to get landmarks approved or to get, you know, improvements approved. So

And that garage on 900 The 900 Block Of Western where the guy's like, oh, you know, did he even have a permit to start with originally ran out or something? I mean, yeah, that that He did. Don't care if it's historic properties or not. The the whole permit process, people are

They're very laxidazal.

Blow it off. They blow it off.

Yeah.

Or or figure out how to blow it off. Yeah. I know that. So Yeah.

Okay. K. Anything else you would like to add to your the action plan? Nope. Okay. I am staff's looking for a motion, though, to

approve this. The oh, okay. Well, under establish a building permit fee fee waiver program under the stewardship Yep. Is is there any hopefully I mean, I'm sure the city has some kind of, like, educational materials. It's like, even if it's the application for a building permit. You know? Just if it's if it's like a click on our thing, like, don't forget. You know? You know? You need to get a building permit. You know? To to just go to the city's pages that describe the whole what what do you need a permit for and how the permit process works. Sometimes when you have that information up front, it's not as, now what? You know, at least you can make some plans, like, oh, I need to get this, and I need to do that.

That's good question. Online but also in the packets that they have printed out by the permit station, does it say if your house is landmarked or in a local district, you also need to acquire a CFA? You know what I mean? Because that would be another way of like, hey. Don't forget.

Yeah. I will look at their permit counter area, but they have a lot of stuff out there.

They do.

In in in the past, I don't know how many years, like, I would say twenty years, believe I think it's gotten way better. You know? Some people are like, oh, they hand me all this stuff. I have to look at this. It's like, well, that's the gig.

You know?

And when I see houses go up for sale and I look at you know, I'm looking online the inside, I'm like, how much of that was permitted and how much is that done We don't have the inside. Sharing. No. No. But I mean, if you're buying a house, you want something, again, with integrity inside, outside the whole thing. Yeah. Landmark or not. And when people pass up the permit process, it's no good for everybody. I'm sorry. Excuse my editorializing.

Is there a motion to approve the twenty twenty five goals and priority actions with the mentioned additions or whatever we did tonight. Suggested changes? Yes.

So moved. Second.

There is a motion. A second. Gannon is absent. Heinemann's absent. Johnson? Aye. Lowry? Aye. Merwin? Aye. Spiegel?

Aye.

Stoebel? Aye. Wright? Aye. And Adamowski is absent. Okay. Alright.

Okay. Next on the agenda is the election of the chair position. Can I do the can I comp them together or no?

Well, staff's recommending that this agenda item be tabled to the February meeting if if the commission's comfortable doing that. And so that would be both of them. And the reason being is I did receive a request today from mister Steven Wright here to step down as a voting member. So with that, would be something the mayor has to do.

But remain on the commission's and nonvoting.

So I my request to the mayor's office at 04:00 today was to, you know, forward Steven's request onto the mayor to request that he be considered to be a nonvoting member. And then I did speak with Brian Bessler who couldn't be here tonight, and he is he is interested in in becoming a voting member. So I also requested that Brian be considered to be a voting member. That would have to be something that the mayor makes the all mayor's recommendation to the council, and they would approve that. So that would if if that is the path forward, it would be one of the February meetings, which would still be before the the February meeting of this commission.

So so that would be my staff recommendation, but, you know, that's if you guys want to do an election tonight, that's also your choice.

I apologize for interrupting you. I just got excited. K.

I will make a motion to table the election of chair and vice chair positions till the February meeting.

I'll second that.

Second by Spiegel. K. Alright. Adamowski is absent. Gannon is absent. Heinemann is absent. Johnson? Aye. Lowry? Aye. Merwin? Aye. Spiegel? Aye. Stovel? Aye. Wright?

Aye.

Okay. So that is tabled till February.

K. Next would be staff reports.

Oh, that's me. The first one is the context study. So we have updated the landing page for this project. This is a is part of our promotional materials to push out, getting people to provide input into the project or at least just stay informed. So it's gonna serve both purposes.

We have not done a social media push for this yet. There was a somewhat of a launch this last weekend with we had flyers, and I'll pull up the flyer right now of this project at the Martin Luther King Junior brunch that was on Saturday, and then there was also flyers available about this and an and a companion thing that I'll mention in a second at the Martin Luther King Junior day of service held at Juliet Central on Monday. Let me just show you. Okay. So this, I will email to you all soon, very soon.

This is the flyer. So we've been passing this out at meetings that we've attended and and other events. We're still kind of formulating the the major public outreach plan for this project, but we this project's definitely in the data gathering stage of this plan. So there's that. I don't know if Steven or Kaylee wanna comment on a on another really cool project or event, but or I can. This is sure.

So this is

a community collection scan because this is a historically underrepresented area in our collection. So we are hoping to engage the community and have them bring in photographs, etcetera, artifacts. We will be setting up scanning things so no one has to leave their item there if they aren't comfortable with that. Nice. We will just take a scan, do it right in front of them, they leave with it that day. And then Anise will be giving a presentation during that time as well to kind of highlight what we do have in the collection.

And if you don't have anything to add, you can still just randomly go.

Yeah. Right?

Or yeah. Yeah.

Do you have some of these flyers available? Because I could take them to some of the people from Sacred Heart, and there's people there from Saint Mark's CME, which is like on Joliet Street behind the old Sacred Heart. And there's people there who have been in those neighborhoods for a long time. And I would pass them out. I would think people would have pictures.

Yeah, the answer is yes, Sharon.

If you

give me some more of my car.

Okay. I'll get them

on my But we need we need to print more, and I need we need to start getting these pushed out. I did, this was almost a half a year ago, have a blurb in the Sacred Heart Church bulletin, I think, that ran for two Sundays. So but we need to be doing that more. And so start start doing that.

At the final closing banquet Yeah. You know, they had stuff from the school. I could have sat there both and just looking at it. It was very cool. So, yeah, people and there's some other churches there. But like I said, that Saint Mark's CME, and I'm sure, you know, the people there are kind of connected, especially the ones who have been there, like, years and years.

Yep.

So it's like if you hand this out, I'm thinking you'd get some input.

Would this be something also for, like, the Ridgewood area to be included in or no?

Yep. Okay. Yeah. They're not this is this project's not limited to a geographic neighborhood at this point in time. So the state, you know, when they did fund this, they they wanted us to open it up Fairmont and Well, including areas outside the city limits too.

I just wanna make Yeah.

I I saw Lockport Township, and I was thinking, like, Fairmont and up there.

Yeah.

Yep. There's yeah.

Because, like, Delinda could also share this with her at her community meetings, and then she could share it with the neighborhood stuff. And yeah.

Is is she

of what what

Delinda's Fairmont.

Oh, okay. Okay.

She's the president of the neighborhood association there.

Yep. So that's where we're at with this project. The website has some other things, so resources. If we when we get things, we'll put them up. Yeah. This movement exhibit that Greg Pierbult and his and his colleagues at the museum put together, so that's featured here. And then red lining map and then the brown book directory. Any other questions? I mean, I hope I guess, I hope in February, I'll be able to come back with more like, these are all the things and and that are happening in the future, and we continue to get ideas from you too about ways to push this out.

Is there anything special happening in February to highlight

Black History Month.

Well, that the community collection scan is one. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I already mentioned the Downtown Joliet National Register Historic District.

That's done with library and the museum are are gonna get printed copies of that. Comp plan, we already talked about that. So nothing's moving yet in a public facing way, but I expect the commission to be involved with with that as as that plan rolls out. And then finally, I know you're gonna ask me anyway. So the applicants of the Saint Joe's Church landmark application, they are meeting, I believe, with the mayor next week. So still not on the agenda yet, but they are slated to meet with our city administration. That's all I got.

K. Next would be commissioner comments. Do any of the commissioners have anything?

I've commented.

Aaron. Why are you looking at me?

Well because there was already a no, I've commented enough, a laugh, and then they so you're the only one I couldn't see your face and I didn't know if you had anything.

I'll I'll just throw this out there. If there is a issue finding another voting member, I would propose that we amend our bylaws to include people who own property in Joliet as opposed to owning residents. And I would be willing to be a voting member. But I understand there's probably a lot of political opposition to that or whatever. Just throwing it out there. Yeah. So

Well, duly noted, and I'll I'll, you know, bring that up to the mayor.

Okay. Oh, I will get started. I was just wondering if any other commissions have it, but I'll zip it. So

No. No. For another Well, I can answer that. The or in all the commissions, you have to be a resident to be a voting member. The arts well, except the arts commission, I think, is a little bit different. I'm not sure where they're at these days, but the other ones, you have to be a resident. Okay.

No? Okay. Next would be public comment. There is no one here from the public any longer. So then there would be a motion to adjourn.

So moved. Second.

All right. There's a motion, second, and adjourn. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? So approved. Okay.