Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Perfect.

Chairman Steve Dyer.

Here.

Mark Zolenziski. And Brian Hebel. Here. Kyle Cook.

Here.

Adam McConnell.

Here. All right, starting off on public comments on items not on the agenda.

I have no speaker slips, and I believe the only people in the audience are the applicants.

Beautiful. Let's go to approval of minutes. from the July 28th, 2026. I'll make a motion to approve. And I will second it.

All in favor? Everyone was here. Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Thank you.

We have a tabled application, 755 West Sox Street. Have we heard anything?

I spoke with Mr. Underhill. He had not had a chance to discuss further with Mr. Lash, so he thinks it'll be a September meeting before they're back.

Okay.

That sounds great. Keep it tabled. Preliminary plot, hidden estates.

Was that an item that we had 30 days?

We can keep it tabled as long as we want. Okay. Or it's because he tabled it. Well, we tabled it.

Oh, it's tabled.

Oh, I thought he did. He can. Oh, I thought he could as that. He can request to table it.

We tabled it for more discussion about it. Mark made the suggestion before we had talked about it.

Okay. So... Good thing I read the minutes.

I'm going to read them for you. I was going to go right now. I'm like, what did he say?

I thought he brought it up and did it, but my bad. My mistake.

You're all right.

Preliminary plot review, hidden estates. So we want to start with this.

Well.

First off, does everybody understand where it's at on the maps?

I can pull it up if you need me to.

If you can pull up the zoning map of it, that'd be great so people at home are watching it. After you get that pulled up, is there any comments from the city on this?

Believe I sent you the code for approval of preliminary plot Yep, it's fairly And the plot is filed with the manager he examines it Sends it to the village engineer, which we did use have in your packets the engineer comments and

Right. So there was a couple issues with the engineer, so that went back and forth, but then that was solved. I just want to state that out loud. Yes. So the fire can turn around. There was issues with draining and water, but that was all resolved. The engineer ultimately approved it. I don't think we're going to argue with him or her.

Yeah, I met the requirements, and then it says the manager shall lay it before the Planning and Zoning Commission at your next meeting. You shall examine it and approve it within 30 days if it satisfies all respects with this chapter. We do have 30 days if you see anything.

Okay. Great. Any comments from the board? Let's hear from our applicants. If they come up, tell us their name in the microphone so everybody at home can listen in.

Good evening. I'm Tom Ripski, the applicant for the project. And Scott Sands with Sands Decker, the engineering firm that helped put the plans together, is here tonight to be available to assist. As you can see, this is a 14-lot subdivision. The size of the lots are from a quarter acre to a half acre. We'll have and ask for public utilities from Johnstown, you know, power, electric and so forth. So there's no private septic or wells. It'll be public utilities. It'll be a subdivision. The street will be public and planted. And we're calling it Benedict Court, which is an extension of Benedict Drive there on the bend. Rezoning was not necessary. We worked closely with the city staff, city engineer, fire department to get to this point in the plan. The comments that were developed by the city and the engineer were addressed. I BELIEVE SATISFIED. AND THEN WE MET WITH BRIAN AND DENNIS FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TO MAKE SURE WE HAD MANEUVERABILITY OF A FIRE TRUCK. IT WAS REQUESTED THAT WE USE A TRUCK OF A SIZE AND A NATURE THAT IS NEW ALBANIES, A BIGGER, I GUESS, PLAN FOR FUTURE, YOU KNOW, EQUIPMENT THAT JOHNSTOWN WILL BE NEEDING OR MAY BE NEEDING. So that is just basically what we have prepared and we have in front of you tonight. If there's any questions.

Any questions?

No, I reviewed it before, and the road meets the standards, and everything seemed to fit what we require. I don't know if you guys, but maybe it might generate some thoughts in me, but no, everything looks in order.

Have we heard anything from the surrounding citizens?

So that was my question, is this is only for the approval of the plot, is that correct? Or excuse me, the lot split.

Mm-hmm, preliminary.

So then there would be a different... application and process where the neighbors, potential neighbors would be notified, they would have their opportunity to be able to come to speak about that or their approval, disapproval, whatever their comments are about that, that would be a separate process?

Yes, I think that's when they come for the final plat, I'm gonna look.

plans to put trees along the streetscape and everything?

Yes, there will be a landscape plan developed as requested by the city and gone to your architect for review.

So it's, she had it pulled up, but she's looking at something else now. So it's in a, so it's UR1 right next to SR1, correct? And it's the... It's SR1. It's SR1. I screwed that up in my notes. Right here, I'll pull up the thing. There's two different. I thought she just corrected us and say it's SR1.

There's like three sections right there. Yeah, there's like a weird dark section.

Todd, originally I'd read UR1. I thought Teresa just corrected me.

No, I was talking about the Nyberger lots. Oh, that's right, yes. Those three. In the area, yeah, there's SR1, SR2, and UR1. But, Kyle, you're right. This is UR1.

Yeah, which fits with everything else, right? Right.

Yeah, and that's what I said. Okay.

You were also right.

All right, cool. You were both right. Either way, it's two districts that are right next to each other, right? It's taken on the name of SR1 with the street name. So with conformity for the neighborhood, I'm concerned about the lot size, to be honest. The lot size for these homes, and then thinking about... Johnstown is growing there's gonna be a lot of stuff happening and we want to try and shape the best future for our schools for our tax base and everything 14 homes spread around so everything's from a quarter acre to a half acre. Yes, have you thought about doing bigger lots?

well in the Current zoning the lot size Can be as dense as 9,000 SQUARE FEET OR LOT. WE DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT DENSE. THE SR1 ARE THE BIGGER LOTS SO WE KIND OF CAME UP WITH A MIDDLE GROUND BASICALLY. SOMETHING THAT IS GIVEN THE IMPROVEMENTS IN THERE IS BUILDING THE STREETS AND PUTTING THE SEWER AND WATER IN IS ECONOMICALLY We didn't want the density of the smaller homes. As you come down Benedict Drive right here, these are probably your standard zoning size. We're much larger than that.

Yeah, I appreciate that. I do. But what is the square footage of the homes?

I'm sorry, but I don't have that off the top of my head. I think it's... I can't, I don't want to speak to you. It's like.

And these are, the square footages on here are the lot size. Lot size, that is correct. Proposed lot sizes.

That is correct.

And so the housing can only encompass a certain percentage of that lot size. Right.

Correct.

So a 10,000 square foot lot would have 30% coverage on there. 23,000 square foot could have 30%. on that one, so it would have to vary based on those differences in those sizes of the lots.

There is a minimum square footage for the lot, for the house size, and I'm sorry, but I don't have that for me to recall. Okay.

Ryan's good at math.

Oh, yeah, I didn't even know there was one, sorry. A minimum? I knew there was a maximum.

Sorry, that's probably small, but how to make it bigger. Given the size of the lot, and given what is developed there in Raccoon Creek, down over the Earl Benedict Drive, I wouldn't imagine there'd be that small a home put on these lawns.

Sorry, it's small.

That's the minimum.

Teresa, were you able to confirm the process?

I started looking at that. The final plat. Oh, that's fine. All right, so the luminary plat is what they're doing now. All right, so it talks about approval of the preliminary plat. It's effective for 12 months. Then after that is the final plat. Sounds like the final plat then comes back to you. The date of the commission's meeting. Action will be taken by the commission and by council within 30 days after the filing. So the final comes to you, then it goes to council. If the plot is approved by council, the owner shall file and record the plot with the recorder within three months.

So, yeah, it will, to answer your question, Todd, this is kind of a first and then they'll come back to us. Then it'll go to council, depending on what we suggest.

So my two only concerns really are the fact that will it match the existing neighborhood? And I know it's, I really appreciate you guys taking it into account already. I mean, that's impressive. And it's confusing because you have homes that were built, what, how many years ago? And then you got homes that were built some four years ago, right? And then we got this new development coming in. Just trying to think long-term plan for what's best for Johnstown in the future. So how do you combine them together? Is it going to be continuous instead of three separate neighborhoods? Kind of want to do our best to make it look all the same. And then is there any concerns about traffic coming out to 62? 14 homes. Sure, cars can sneak out through Edwards, but 14 homes is 14 more homes in that neighborhood. So for me, I personally would like to see fewer homes in there, and I know, but I'm not a developer, right? And I know why people are in this business, but I think for our neighborhood, for our town, for Johnstown, I think I would like to see fewer homes in there.

Well, we can't WE HAVE 30 DAYS, SO WE CAN TABLE IT AND ASK THAT THEY COME BACK WITH THE SIZE OF THE HOMES THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT PUTTING IN.

WHERE'S THE BOARD? WHERE ARE YOU THINKING, BRIAN?

I'M DOING THE MATH, YOU ASKED. SHE'S DOING THE MATH. I'M SORRY.

So I'm stuck, right? Like, I like progress, right? I like progress. I mean, they already came to the table with giving up some homes, right? But I feel like the community would want something bigger lots. I do. I do. I know it sounds weird, but that's where I'm stuck at. What do you guys think about what I said? Is it any comments for...

I'm not opposed to the current display of lot sizes. I don't think it's bad.

I just hope everything was checked off in terms of lot frontage and stuff.

That's one thing I'm just reading over here in the minimum square footage. And then if they're too close, right? That's, I don't know. It's a whole lot of math.

Yeah, I was curious on how close the homes were going to be.

No, I don't know. What's the standard lot size in like a leafy dell or in a, I have no idea. Yeah.

If I might. Yeah. There are side yard, rear yard, and front yard setbacks. And the plat there stays within and adheres to those guidelines for the zoning.

Whatever the setbacks are.

There's a table on the corner of your plat.

On the mat? Bottom left? Excuse me, bottom right? This is the first.

The first one, yeah. I see it. This guy?

No, the other page.

Over here. Oh, there you are.

Is there a plan of any... of any sort to be able to separate the existing houses from the newer houses by fencing or anything like that?

That typically is left up to the residents of the lot and whether they need it or want it. Along Benedict Drive particularly on that Would be the east side. There's those lots are fairly deep and if they put the houses up at the building setback line off of Benedict Court of significant backyards and they'll want to fat summer and escape them they can they can decide I Think the only concern here.

This is a huge I don't know if you guys have studied this land. I mean, I know there's like a river flowing back here almost. Are the houses able to be built on this land? And does that mess up the front, like where the house can actually be built?

No.

Yeah, it's OK. Go ahead. Yeah. Can I step over? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Here is a setback. I can't even find out what the size of the hall is.

Yeah. Okay.

Here is the street. We've got to figure out if we can only cover 30% of the lot and the size of the lot. Required to have a setback to the 8th.

Lot 3 is the smallest.

Lot 3 has 10,000 square feet, so 30% is 3,000 square foot. So they have this area here. That's the biggest that it can be. What are they going to build in the hall? That's where the hall would go.

I'm just saying that's the biggest that it can be. That is actually right now very good.

Yes, yes, I know. I would imagine that that would stay wooded, yes. Yeah, okay, okay. So it fits in there. So there is room.

Yeah, it fits in there. The minimum is 1,600. This one, it'll fit. Do we need a different study? The minimum is 1,600.

Okay.

Which is fine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the biggest you could do on that lot would be 3,000 square foot. I'm not going to get much out of it.

No.

That's 3,000 square foot and not having any other improvements, not having any... shed or basketball court or pool, anything like that. Because if it can only cover 30%, then that's the max. Unless variances are made, of course. Right. So what was mentioned a moment ago about the stream corridor protection zone that's listed in here. So there's three houses, potentially three, maybe four, three properties that go along that. That was my concern is about being able to disturb that tributary that's going over to Raccoon Creek, any water that's going to go through there. I understand that that would be probably remediated. I say probably remediated with the stormwater management system. those items that are on there, but that's my big concern is the stream coming through there and being able to protect any kind of water for the for the waterways going through there. I mean, I know it's a small area, but still. That is a protected, the protection zone on there. I was trying to read last night what all that encompassed. I couldn't find a whole lot on that, other than EPA approvals.

There is, if I might. A stream corridor protection zone established by Johnstown zoning ordinance and it requires that all streams with drainage greater than 50 acres be protected by a stream corridor with a minimum total width of 100 feet, which is what we're showing there, okay? And they say that you need 25 foot on each side of the stream, a minimum, at least 25 foot off the centerline of the stream, so it could be 25, 75. We just put it down there 50-50 on either side of the stream, okay? And then, so we do have a stream corridor protection zone shown there. 50 foot either side of the stream.

And I'm sorry, what is 50 foot on either side? Oh, the center line here. Yeah, yeah. So here. Okay. So then... So we're out of it. This... Forgive me. No, that's fine. You can stay right here if you want to. So the way that I look at this, if this is the center line, here's your 50 foot. Correct. Then... for these lots, does that mean that the house can only be... That's correct.

That's correct. Unless they wanted to put it back here, but it would be awful tight back here.

But if they do that, then they'd have to have driveway. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.

Right. Or ten. Ten or twelve.

But if they put a driveway back to it, then it disturbs that area. How does that?

They'll have to get the necessary permits to cross it.

And those permits would go before council or before planning and zoning? That would have to be a variance? Yeah. To the current Johnstown zoning? Correct.

No, I don't. I'm sorry. I missed your conversation because I was doing something. What were you saying? I'm sorry, Todd.

I was just talking about going for ice cream afterwards. Okay. Oh, yeah.

Yes, exactly.

I was talking about the stream corridor he was mentioning, and I didn't see it this way, so I'm glad that he pointed this out. The stream corridor that's listed going in here goes to the tributary to Raccoon Creek. They've got a 50 foot easement. Is that the right way to say that? 50 observation easement.

Yes.

Um, per Johnstown code, there's 50 feet on either side of the center line of the stream to protect that. So then I asked because of the two or three lots that are, Essentially, they're crossing that. There's three.

13 and 12, 12, 13, yeah.

12, 13, 14. So where would the house have to be in order to be able to keep that line? That's what I, yeah. And so in, let's just say on 14, you'd have to have it either in front or behind that easement. But I'm just seeing like size-wise in there. If it's a 23,000 square foot lot, 30% would be a 6,000 square foot house. I'm just rounding for numbers.

Someone put up a 7,000 square foot house.

I'm just rounding numbers. Yeah. Even if it's a 3,000-square-foot house, I mean, that's still a pretty good-sized house to be able to put on a lot. It would be a great lot for that. But if you put it in behind it, then you'd have to have variance to be able to get the driveway to go back through it because it would go against that code. If you put it in front of it, then I could see that working. But then it seems like it would leave very little room for...

anything else yeah for the resident to do anything yes yeah that's correct let me correct what I spoke earlier it's not necessarily easement it's a stream corridor protection zone thank you and that is Johnstown's code that would yeah troll flows through there correct Well, that's not easement. I misspoke there.

And I misspoke it also. I said easement. Nope, I had said the same thing, so I understand. That's fine. Sometimes they're just easy words for me to use. That's the word I know, and that's good.

With it being a neighborhood, much like we could go with multiple developers, there have been challenges with getting that neighborhood to be I don't know what the right word is.

United? Yeah. Uniform.

Uniform. Similar things I could see happen here as well. When did we decide that? Is that later? This is just a plotting exercise, right? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, they still got to come with final approval and that'll give the public time to, if they want to come and make comments too.

So I feel like where I'm at now, I feel like I want to ask the applicant to reconsider larger lots. I'd like to table it to consider this idea until the next meeting. That's where my head's at. Again, my two concerns are that I understand there's almost three different neighborhoods here, but it's contiguous. It's about being consistent. The hope was that we could transition. What's that?

We could transition from the larger lots that are down in Raccoon to a more modest lot and then the long-term existing inhabitants and structures.

Yeah, I think our main concern is. It being crowded and then also how many? To Steve's point, the traffic flow that we're going to be having coming out of there.

Means the Intel is a blessing and a curse, right? To get to the school when you have to cross 62 is tough. They just the school had to bus in town now because can't have kids walk. I mean, you know what I mean? Traffic is a real is a real thing. So that's where my head's at right now. Yeah.

I do wonder, in 14, 13, and 12, I'd be curious about how tight those houses would be with that stream back there. That's a real concern. And I don't know if you guys have studied that and looked at where that might actually, if it's a 3,000 square foot house or a 2,000 square foot house, which is, I'm guessing, probably around that 2,000 square feet is the biggest, probably the house is going to go back here, is my guess. Standard with what you see in the other neighborhoods this size. um could it fit it would that would be the only thing what would it look like up against that river and that protection zone and what does it mean to stream corridor contraction zone to us i don't know can they not touch it they don't want to dump water into it or they don't want to dump dirt into that because i know that flows that flows down into someone else's backyard back there too right

The protection zone?

Yeah, that goes down to that.

It goes down. It's still on their lot. It's still on their lot, yeah. Because the creek is, you know, through there. And then actually there's space on the back of 14. If an individual wanted to cross the creek, they could possibly be a small house. There's not a whole lot of room.

So they can go all the way to the back. Oh, okay. Yeah.

But practically speaking, nobody would build in the back because you don't have enough room with the 25-foot rear yard.

To Todd's point, it's very limited to the owner on what they can do on that lot.

Yeah.

Depending on the size of home that's being built.

Yeah.

Now, probably the... smallest footprint would be there on 14 from the road back to the stream corridor protection line and then house would have to be beyond the 35 foot building line and from there back to the stream corridor protection line is probably in the neighborhood of 50 foot in depth then you have your 70-foot width out front. It's actually wider than that as you go back on the lot. So, I mean, it would accommodate a home, if you see what I'm talking about there. If you look at the scale there, you're probably, you know, somewhere, well, it's probably a little less than 40 foot in width. I don't have a scale, but then the depth is right around 40 feet. So it could be built there. Now, the other thing we could do is we put 50 foot on either side of that stream for a protection zone, 50 foot either side of the stream, but the code says we could have 25 feet, so it's possible that we could push the southernmost line there another 25 foot back to make the build a lot bigger.

Yeah, I'm just reading. It says all streams with drainage of area greater than a quarter width shall be a minimum of 100 feet with at least 25 feet on each side of the center line of the stream. Okay.

Hello, I'm Scott Sands with Sands Decker. I just wanted to ask the question. I'm a little confused because the layout is based on Johnstown zoning, right? It's UR1, which allows... Lots as small as 9,500 square feet. We are well in excess of that. We are minimum 10,283, and many of these are twice as big as the required zoning lot size. So I think I would just ask the commission to take that into consideration. This is not something that we came up with or Tom came up with. This is following Johnstown's zoning code.

No, I appreciate that. I think you'll find a lot of the things that we do here, like we're about to discuss fees and curb cuts and stuff like that per our code to see if maybe we're doing it wrong. So sometimes we don't realize that things need to adjust until someone comes in and applies and then we go, you know, maybe we need to rethink the way that this is written. But I don't disagree with you. Yes, it is absolutely to code and well above. I mean, it's well done.

YEAH, AND I DO SAY I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS COMING TO THE TABLE, LIKE, GIVING SOME STUFF, RIGHT? YOU ALREADY DID SOME NEGOTIATIONS TO MAKE THE LOTS BIGGER. BUT WHAT I'M ASKING IS, LIKE, WILL YOU GUYS CONSIDER BIGGER LOCKS? THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING.

Well, from an economic standpoint, I don't know that we can, given the cost and the improvements. We have to be able to make it economically viable, and this is kind of what we came up with. We stretched as we could.

Is there an option for somebody who came to buy a lot to buy two lots? Because really, from my understanding, From my understanding, if they wanted to come in here and I wanted to build a house in here from you, I'm just buying the lots. Then I have a housing company come in and build the house. So they'll buy whichever. It's just an initial plan.

Yeah, it is. I'm not really worried about continuity. What's that? I'm not really worried about continuity.

Right, we have that, what's that, we talked about two meetings ago where we didn't want to rename something because we wanted, we're trying to keep conformity.

Yeah, we don't want the spot zone. Yeah, we don't want the spot zone here.

Right, that's what we have everywhere.

Yeah. What's the other zone next to it? SR1 or SR1 minimum lot size is different? Is that the UR1 is this? SR1 is bigger? Is that the difference? Yeah, sure.

Okay.

What are the dark SR2? That's the weird thing. That's like why is there a spot? That's nothing to do with you guys. It's just why is that there?

Probably something Councilor Green did. Probably from the Green era of zoning. Okay. He's in the crowd for everybody that's watching.

Scott, we were discussing here, and on those lots of concern, like 14 and 13, in that area that's at the back of the lot that is potentially buildable, we could prevent that from happening by moving that stream corridor about 25 foot back per the code, and then prohibit, that would prohibit anybody building across from your creek and building back side of the lot.

How would that be moved? How can that move?

So the stream corridor protection zone doesn't necessarily have to be centered on the creek, 50 feet and 50 feet. It can be offset somewhat, as much as 25 feet. So we could push the stream corridor protection zone back on those lots so that it was 25 feet on the front side and 75 feet on the back sides. And that would free up some space in the front of lot 14 and lot 13 to build a little bit larger home. I think also, I guess, to echo what Tom said, that that buildable area on the front of 13 and 14 is still an ample-sized buildable area for it. I mean that that billboard is about 56 by 50 Okay, so I mean you're you're talking a two-story house. That's a you know a 5,000 square foot house So it's a pretty ample old boy area, and I think a question. I heard a question earlier about What what does it mean stream core protections and what it means is? Number one, you can't build in it, so there wouldn't be any houses in it, there wouldn't be any sheds in it. You're generally allowed to discharge water in it, so roof drains, that type of thing, you could discharge back into that, because obviously it's got to go to the creek. But beyond that, you're essentially not supposed to alter it, disturb the earth, et cetera.

With the recent deluge of rain, did you take a walk back there? Was it bad? Was it worse or was it okay? Yeah, I was up to it. Yeah, it's had to be a lot.

No, no, I did not.

Yeah, all right.

What do you think? What do you guys think, Brian? Where are you at?

I'm at the okay side. Yeah, I don't see, for the plot,

I mean, I have concerns around 14, 13, and 12, just distances and everything.

But I think whatever this is year to year, that's 70 feet, another 50 seat, he said. That'd be the only thing. Other than that, I think it's 14 houses traffic times, what is it, two cars, 28 cars coming in and out of there. It's already a cut through. I don't think it's going to add a ton of traffic.

Well, you're looking, I mean, not to correct you, but it's two cars, if that's just mom and dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if we went with two cars, two cars is fine, but...

If there is, then the drive goes out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Does the city have any other thing? Usually does Justin or not Justin.

Yeah, Trevor. Trevor. Mr. Sheridan looked it over. He had no concerns.

Not at this stage. This is the preliminary plan.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's what the requirement is, right? You have to share it with the city manager?

Yeah, I'm actually with Brian. I'm leaning toward okay on it. I am with you.

I do want bigger lot sizes, but I don't see anything that we can stop. Our only ask is, could you do something different? Obviously, economically, it doesn't make sense, but I don't know, Steve. I'm with you. I want slightly bigger lots, but I think that fits with the UR1 code perfectly.

It's actually above and beyond.

That being said, we could change that code, but it would not have to be impacted by that, obviously.

Can you put that previous picture back up?

Sorry. Thank you. Steve, where are you at?

It's a tough position, right? I'm worried about the traffic. I do want bigger lots. I made that clear.

Is there like a deforestation thing where they have to put so many trees in for how many trees they take down or anything? That's the whole landscape. That's the whole landscape thing? Yep. Okay.

Or they could pay a fee.

Okay. Is it just open field now with a couple of trees? I've never even been back there, so.

I think we're not going to have another traffic light, are we? Yeah, it's just 62.

Oh.

You can get a street right around here.

Okay. I don't want the trap opening. It's the last thing we need.

It's kind of a rolling area right now. Not really. It's not hilly.

There's some relief going from the open field out here.

Yeah, there's probably, what, a 40-foot drop from the back of the thing all the way up to the top. Yeah, 102, no, 50 foot. Yeah, 30 feet or so.

Yeah, well, they'd have the option to go to Edwards or 62. Well, I mean, from Benedict. Yeah. I mean, just getting to school, you're going to have to cross 62 through either way.

I didn't know if you were thinking that the traffic was dumping directly onto it. It would hit Benedict, and then they can...

Yeah.

So for lots 13 and 14, for here, and what I'm seeing on here, so you also have the section right now that's highlighted in yellow right now. Yes. That's a lot that's here. Great. The part that's at the bottom of the map right now is the area in question. So is there a plan to be able to put something back in that area? So that's where I'm at. That's why I was asking, like, 14, 13 and 14. Can I say it doesn't go all the way back? I don't think. It goes to that line. Okay. Okay, great. What is the, is there a plan for that area? The 2.79 acres? No, just a residential lot.

Great.

It's already been approved as a buildable lot.

Oh, it has already been approved?

Yeah, it's part of the subdivision. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Okay.

So all of, I'm sorry, if I can ask a question. I see the two lots. So all this cul-de-sac and all of the lots are inside this parcel here?

Yes. Six acres, roughly.

On the right side, I hate saying north, west, south, and it depends on where you're sitting. Where it says Village of Johnstown, is that the... That's the American Legion. American Legion, thank you. We have to be in the park, right? Over here. Yep.

And you're going to put a dry basin in? Is that what I saw, too? I'm sorry? Yeah.

You'll have to put a dry basin? We'll have a dry basin. Water catch thing or whatever?

Yep.

Oh, so those are, so thank you for bringing that up. So that's part of the two lots, 11 and 12? Yes, that area in the back there. Actually, even 10 and 11? Yeah, right. Does that? It's this area. So after this, it goes to council.

And Mr. Liggett. For the final plot review.

Yeah, this is just the actual measurements.

And ask that we have that because it's in residential areas. That's right. we can't do anything so when it rains and probably go into the stream

All right, so Brian, you asked about my stance. I appreciate that they came here with already something on the table, and I do like that. But I think our community wants more. I think it would be a benefit for our community with the traffic matching the existing Benedict neighborhood, the newer one. I can't find a reason to deny it. I think it does meet all the requirements. I WOULD ASK THAT THEY RECONSIDER MAYBE AS THEY DO THE FINAL PLOTS MAYBE EVEN ONE LOT LESS IF THEY FIND IT WHEN THEY DO THEIR MEASUREMENTS. BUT THAT'S MY CONCERNS. I'D REALLY LIKE LARGER LOTS IN THERE.

Yeah, I think that's it. I'm with you. There's no reason to deny it. But I think the ask is, can we make it bigger for the community, like make it 13 out of 14 lots or something? A little bit more. Or that's unlucky 13. Yeah. Yeah. Not give another 1,000 acres or 1,000 square feet to almost, well, no more than 13, 26, 2,000 square feet to each lot, but not really because you're not going to be able to break it up that way, so never mind. Stupid.

Well, yeah, because they could really just take away number three.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, for the most part, I mean, there are some nice-sized lots, but giant lots. There are just a few tinier lots. The residential development, they're very large. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, they're very large. I like it. Yeah. I mean, 14,000 square feet, that's a nice-sized lot, man. Yeah. A nice-sized lot. 40,000 an acre, roughly, give or take. So, yeah, you're over a quarter of an acre, almost a half acre on some of these lots, plus half acre. Yeah. So, Steve, I think you're considering that the 10,000, those are just over the quarter acre lot size to match the SR1, which is kind of what that was developed as post the current. It's just slightly bigger. What is the lot size on SR1?

I'll point out that it really, not to say that it doesn't matter, but the reality is that they could really come back and say, well, then we'll just adhere to the UR1 standard.

Right, and come back to 9,000 square feet.

Come back with smaller lots.

Yeah.

I think if we – Todd, where are you on it? I'm ready. Okay. Sounds like we should make a motion. Do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve as is. Is that the motion?

That would be the motion.

I'll second.

Brian Hebel.

Yes.

Steve Dyer.

Yes.

Al Cook. Yep. Bob McConnell.

No. So thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Thanks for working with us. I'm sure it's your favorite thing to do. We wanted a positive, healthy relationship, but you know what? We each have our own job.

I understand. I appreciate your consideration. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. APPLICATION FEES.

SO I ASKED STEVE TO HAVE THESE ADDED TO THE AGENDA. THIS IS REALLY JUST FOR DISCUSSION. I WOULDN'T MIND IF WE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REALLY NEED TO DISCUSS A LOT TONIGHT. But if we go home and do some homework and come back in a couple of weeks with some suggestions, we could be OK on our fees. But I think we might be a little bit high. After speaking with Mr. Szabo, we've had some complaints. Some of our fees are like $300 or $150. Depending on what they're doing, it's sometimes almost 3 quarters of the project in cost. So I think for me, I'd like to look at what our current fees are and consider a couple of things. I think there needs to be a difference between development and citizen. And I think that we need to look at maybe doing a... What's that?

No, no, go ahead. I completely follow you because I've noticed it too.

Yeah, and I think that we need to look at maybe doing, instead of a flat fee and... maybe this is wrong, just making a recommendation, a percentage of the project up to a cap, and we can even have a minimum, but if I wanted to do, if you don't mind, give me an example of something that you've experienced out there, that way they have a better picture of what we're looking at.

Does he need to come up here?

Yeah, if you could come up here and speak.

BACK IN WILLIAMS BETWEEN 62 AND JERSEY STREET, SO THAT AREA BACK THERE. SO NOT AS EXPENSIVE AS MAIN STREET. AND THE PEOPLE JUST WANTED TO PUT IN A SMALL LITTLE ORDINAMENTAL FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD TO SLOW DOWN THEIR KIDS FROM THEIR TODDLERS FROM RUNNING OUT INTO THE STREET. SO JUST A NICE LITTLE ORDINAMENTAL FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD. $150, $200 material cost, and the fee is $300. And they couldn't afford it. So I think there's some areas in there. Oh, that's historical district.

It's because, yeah, historical district.

It's in the historical downtown design district.

There was another one that they wanted to, they were going to, would have looked a lot nicer than what they had. They had deteriorating concrete stoop and steps, and they had Amish crew that was going to do it fairly inexpensively. They were going to put decking over it, make it look a lot nicer than what it does now, or what it, yeah, what it does now. That one was, what's the name of that street? Do you remember what I told you? It's back there.

Is it Williams or?

No, it runs back behind the Happy Store.

But Maple and Locker is back there.

Yeah, so it's back in there, so same thing. It's not a thriving economically community. I'm sorry, what's the Happy Store?

The Happy Store. So I'm sorry, did I mean this? I have no idea who you are.

Oh, I'm Jeff. I'm the Jeff Zabo, the zoning... So that was another one where the cost was Cost for the permit was the same as the cost for the project and they couldn't afford it so they didn't do it And there's more like that.

Those are the two that I In historic downtown I think for that cost if you were right on Main Street and

then it's a little different situation. But when you get behind those, you know, back on Ford, it's a lot different economics. So I think that was what I was telling Kyle.

We do have an ancient community back there.

What about setting the fee in proportion to the cost of the project? It's only a $300 project.

Yeah, that's what I mentioned as far as the percentage of the project. So we can base it on a percentage. We can base it on just a flat rate. I'M JUST ASKING THAT WE AS A BOARD GO HOME AND LOOK AT IT, AND I WANT TO LOOK AT ONLY WHAT OUR CITIZENS WILL BE PAYING, NOT BUSINESSES AND DEVELOPMENTS.

YEAH, YEAH, I AGREE.

I THINK IT'S A GOOD POINT. WE HAVE TO DO HOMEWORK. WE COME BACK WITH WHAT OUR THOUGHTS ARE. WHEN KYLE BROUGHT THIS UP TO ME, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT OUR AIM IS COMPLIANCE, RIGHT? WE WANT THEM TO WANT TO WORK WITH THE CITY. SO WHAT'S REASONABLE? I think it's a great point. Good point. Any other things on application fees to curb cuts?

Yeah, on curb cuts, so moving on to curb cuts, As of right now, it's currently set up to where the city manager makes the decision on curb cuts. And I'm not saying that I'm necessarily opposed to that. If Mr. Sheridan was making the decision, I would be completely fine with it. I think it depends on who's in there to make that decision. To me, a curb cut can change the way a city runs as far as the traffic and all that. So I don't know if that needs to go to a board or if it needs to stay with one person's decision. That was the only thing I wanted to bring up as far as do we want to keep that on one person's shoulders or should that go to a planning and zoning decision?

Wasn't there like a tiered thing too or something at one point for other things? Like he can make so many decisions, but then it becomes our decision if it's... Over a certain threshold. Over a certain threshold or something, right? I don't know what that was for, but I know I've seen something like that in the past. Yeah.

Originally, that was under... Is structure updates the same as...

Okay. Service director. No, we can scratch structure updates. Okay. Let me pull that email.

And I certainly think he should be consulted, if not making the ultimate call.

Yeah, absolutely. I think, well, I mean, you're here, so the city manager would be here to consult. And like I said, I am only bringing this up because it was a thought that came to mind. Right.

It's something we're going to think about for the next meeting. Some thoughts off the top of my head that when he brought this up were, look, we just tried to argue to get rid of something, right?

Yeah.

Curb cuts on certain streets are a big deal. And we just talked about traffic, right? If somebody wanted to add a curb cut on 62, it's a big deal.

Well, we just had a preliminary conversation about a curb cut on 62. And that's what made it come to mind for me, because if it was just on one person's shoulders, they might just go, yeah, that's fine. But yet, we might not want that there.

Or it impacts all the residents.

Thanks, everybody. Yeah.

There should be a compelling reason to add a curb cut.

I don't disagree.

Not just convenience.

I don't disagree, but... That's the key. I think that, in my opinion, we're solely relying on having that one person in there forever that can make that great decision.

That's fine.

As opposed to different minds coming together and discussing it.

From my perspective, I don't think I would mind losing that authority. That's not necessarily an advantage, but I do think it's important that you can agree on the criteria to be considered on granting it or not.

I had on here structure updates and procedures, but I did discuss with Heather and Teresa beforehand, and that primarily came down to I think just a little bit of misunderstanding that was out there about the color scheme that we have. If somebody wants to paint their house or change the color of something, as long as it falls within that color scheme that we have now posted, they do not need to apply. They do not need to ask for permission. Same thing if it's material to material. If it's the same material, they do not need to apply. They do not need to ask for permission, the citizens. And we did that so that it was more of ease for them and also for our staff. I think there was some misunderstanding out there in the public. I just wanted to make sure that that was clear and that got cleared up beforehand. That was the only thing I don't structure update. So really just if we could look at the application fees and consider curb cuts, I did have demolition on there because I believe demo is approved by one person in certain areas, correct?

Thank you, Kyle.

Right.

Right. All right, so we're all going to be ready next meeting?

Yeah.

We're going to do homework. Cool. Other business?

And if you guys have any other questions based on what I'm asking or whatnot or just want to talk it through prior to, feel free to call.

I'll make a motion to adjourn. I'll second.