Board of Zoning Appeal & Regional Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Let me see. He was here this morning. Okay, I've got 601. We're running a little bit late. I'll call this uh meeting of the Jefferson County Board of Zone app to order. And if uh if you would like to pray Dear heavenly father, we come to you thanking you just once again for blessing us with such a a beautiful day here in East Tennessee. And thank you for the health and ability you give each and every one of us, dear God, to get up and go about today. And I pray, Lord, Lord, that you're pleased with how we went about living as we come together tonight. I pray that you would guide our our conversation, our business, our dear God, our words, that you would uh season them in a way that they'd be pleasing to you, dear God, and that we edify one another. And just help us to make

decisions tonight, dear God, that uh would glorify you and and benefit this county. I ask, Lord, that you would watch over our county and all the uh the government bodies of it, dear God, and just guide them. and I ask our state and our country as well. Lord, we love you and thank you for everything that you've done for most of all, we thank you for your son and what he did and the work on the cross. And it's in his name in Jesus name that we give you thanks and ask these things. Amen. Second pledge. Attention salute. Pledge. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Yeah, I was looking at the citizens input and and correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think we have anything citizens input wise for the borders on zone fields. Correct. Everything everybody wants to speak on planning commission. Okay, good deal. Uh I trust you received your packets. all but sue if you had an opportunity to glance at the minutes. I have. Uh is there any corrections or amendments to those? Been none. A motion to approve. Motion. You have a motion. Got a second. Any discussion on that? All those in favor of approving minutes meeting by saying I. All those opposed. Motion passes. took care of the citizens input already.

Have the item number six on the agenda. Varant request for a garage to be placed in the front of property at 419 Tointoint Road Damage by Winston Smith. Is anyone Yes, sir. I was just want to do a pole shed to the right side of my driveway facing my house. uh to stall or to keep my mowing equipment, bush hog, tractor implements, things such as that. Um this is the only level spot on the front of the house that I can do due to the field line in the back going towards the waterfront and the 102 flood line. And I'm looking at the dimensions on what I is 24 by 36. 24 by 36. Okay. Captain, you think I look at this? I see no issues. See no issues with it. We've granted other variances out through there before for projects such as this. You might base it on the shape of the lot. I mean, that's a pretty Yeah. Yeah. It's the the angle of that every way I have to I'm turning it along in run of the driveway so I can it'll be long run long ways so I can just pull up and basically just back everything into the shed and go on up to the house from there. Do we have any questions for Mr. Smith on this? Being native board, I make a motion we grant variance. We have a prop motion. We have a second.

I'll second. Is there any further discussion about granny's bar? Being none. All those in favor of granny bar say I. All pass. Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Next item on the agenda, variance request for size and height on a proposed billboard side off of Cook Me Road, Dandridge by Wesley S. here. Evening ladies and gentlemen, thanks for your time tonight. Okay. M Mr. S, you are Mr. S. Yes. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You're wanting to install a 20 by 50 billboard with a height of 65 ft. Is that correct? Yes, sir. That's correct. Everyone had a letter in their package. concerning this. Sue, I know you probably haven't had a chance to take a look at it yet, but if you would go ahead and tell us a little bit about the reasoning why. Uh, basically, I'm just wanted to put up an LED billboard. Uh, really for the benefit of the small business person in this area, uh, auto repair facilities and your favorite dentist and the like, PSAs, for the county and the city. Um, um, it is, uh, on a piece of property I have out that overlooks Highway 40. Um, I'm far outside of the states right away. I've already contacted them. They've confirmed to me that there's not a an issue that they would have. Uh, so it would be up to this body to determine whether or not that'd be okay. Similar to what is right here on 92 coming into

town. It's it's much smaller than the one I need to do, but uh, if you've noticed, it's right there by Owens Restaurant. If you've seen it, it's an LED billboard. Again, mine would just need to be larger because it's so far off of the road. I think that one's a 10 by 10 by 20 12 by 24 or something like that. The one that going Yeah. Min what the I can see your opinion here, but what what are your thoughts on this? um variances from the zoning ordinance are supposed to be based on a hardship and if the if the if the use is not substantiated within the code um a hardship has to be based on something that is not just the selection of the requesttor the applicant um I don't see a hardship here uh and if you're going to start granting variances from the heights and square footage of your signs Um, that's a very slippery slope. You might as well not have them because you will never be able to get somebody to be in compliance. That's been my uh my experience today. Um, you also said it was going to be an LED lit sign. Um those are the ones that are uh difficult to um control the uh timing of the sign and also the intensity of light. Um, and a lot of times when you're uh focusing on the vehicles, if they look up at it, there is a tendency for a minute, they it literally confuses their u when they look at something else. It's like looking at a bright light and then looking back on the road. So it it does

a safety issue in mind. Well, I'm I'm over,00 ft off of the road. So this is not like a a billboard you typically see. Even the one that's already existing you probably are aware there. It's about mile marker. It's about a mile and a half before 407, the exit there. And it's it's 100 ft off the road. Um, so I'm wondering if that's if that's kind of a mute point given that there's already a sign like this, but certainly much closer to the road than mine would be. So Seir County must have, you know, must have considered that and decided that it was not any type of a safety issue. So at 1100 ft that's a lot further than the 100 ft that the sign that's currently there. Understand? And just go a few what's your limitations? Why do you have to be so far from it? Is that on your property? It's my property line. Yes, sir. That's your property line. Yes, sir. And have you spoke with adjacent property owners about this? Just curious. I I have, but the only thing there is uh it's it's it's cattle. I mean, somebody uses it to for for cattle. There's no houses within a mile at least. Okay. And the the rooftop we see in the picture, that's a barn. That's a barn. Yeah. Yeah. It's an old barn. fella has I understand what you're trying to do and and the reasoning behind it, but I also do understand Miss Baldwin's point that once we start giving variances toward these, you know, where do we stop on those things? Does anyone have any questions? Mr. S, who owns the barn? Is that that's on the neighbor's

property? It's on the neighbor's property. Yeah. Okay. I could look him up. I I don't know him. I've met him, but I can't remember his name. The size the sign is now. Can you not read it from the interstate? Uh well, there there's no sign there yet. Um so I'm wanting one that obviously, you know, is big enough to to to be able to read from the interstate. So the the typical billboard size at 10 by 30 would just you wouldn't be able to read that. I don't feel like it would be visible enough especially given the the the cost of installing the sign and then if it can't be enlarged later you know not getting the kind of results that you know would make it viable as a advertising medium. I'm certain you've talked with the company that will be doing the installation on this if you and where are their what's their called TWWI uh construction. They're out of Kansas City. They put these all over the country. Um you're not going to be seeing static billboards coming up anymore. It's all going to be LED. Um that's just the way of the future. So you're you're going to be presented with this much more often than you might think. They're coming. Um, and there's already evidence of that. The again the one that's already on the other side of 407 and even this small one here on 92. U static signs are just proven not to catch people's attention. Everyone's looking at their phone all the time. You know, that's what they're used to. So, so does that company have they done studies on the visibility of the signs and how far a 10 by 30 would project? They Yeah, they that's why they recommended the the larger size. I said west, we could do it. We can build it, but you're just not going to get the results you want because it's not visible. Not

enough. Do we have any other questions? Being what's the pleasure board? I'm going make a motion to deny the request based on the cost of care the hardship. Okay, we have a proper motion. Do we have a second? I'll second. We have second. Do we have any discussion? Being none, all those in favor of denying the credit request, let it be known by saying I. Okay. And just so I can if you can refresh my mind, the the terminology you used for the denial was based upon the what again? Constitution of a hardship. The hardship. Okay. And what where can I find information on that? My lawyer will want to want want to review that. You said the hardship is is in Tennessee code for variance from the zoning. Okay. I'm sure you can look it up. Okay. Very good. Thank you. Thank you folks. Have a good evening. Moving on down the agenda. That's item number eight. Entertain a motion to adjurnn. So move motion to have a second. All those in favor saying I now call the planning commission in the table.

Sure. We need no problem. Okay, I'm going to call to order this meeting of the objection from County Planning Commission. And again, I trust you had your minutes and have an opportunity to uh to review those. Are there any corrections, amendments? Seeing none, I'll entertain a motion to approve. Motion to approve. Have proper motion. We have a second. Second. We have any discussion on approving the minutes. Being none, all those in favor, let me know by saying I. I. Passes. Citizens input. We have uh have a few tonight. So, uh, guys, before we start into this, we're going to limit this to 3 minutes per person. And, uh, I ask that you respect the other people's time. Uh, if someone speaks in front of you that covers exactly what you're wanting to speak to and you have nothing to add to that or to improve it, let's move on with business that way we can get this stuff done that we got to do tonight. Okay. I appreciate that. So, first person I have is uh Carolyn S. Allen. Miss Allen. Here. I am. So, okay. But mine is not an agenda item. You want me to wait till the end? I see now where it says previous. And if you would be willing to, we'll wait then. Thank you so much. And would you all kindly use your microphones? Yes. Thank you. But we got background for you. Last time we had two of them together. Okay, Mr. Chairman, I found the microphones work

best if we use one at a time. I know Mr. Bolton appreciates that so he doesn't get blasted there. I'm getting the thumbs up. So, one at a time. One at a time. Turn them back out when you're talking. If we forget, somebody remind us. I would. Okay. Thank you, Michael Ingram. I come up the honor. Yeah. You come up here and if you would state your name and your address, sir. My name is Mike An. I live at 1199 Black Road. Uh there's a piece of property over there that's they're looking at reszoning from A1 to C2 and there's been some talk about some negative talk about some people not wanting it to happen and the feller's got a light up there that they say is too bright and all this stuff. Fell sitting right back here. Uh his property is directly across from my family. We've been there 100 years. Okay. There's four houses in front of his property. That's all my family. This is our front yard. It affects nobody on this planet more than it affects us. We have no problem whatsoever with any of it. This man purchased that property. It belongs to him. He should do whatever he wants to with it. My mother is 75 years old. This light is 50 yards from her porch. No problems whatsoever. Good neighbors is hard to come by. You know what I mean? This is a good neighbor. He ain't doing nothing to hurt nobody or nothing. And that's what that's about. It don't affect anybody more than it affects us. And it it it affects us none at all. No problems

whatsoever. Stand by and support him in what he's trying to do to make a living. Fair enough. Thank you, Mr. That is probably Jim Fox. Good afternoon, Jim Fox, Abalene Trail. Uh, in October, this PC requested a meeting with the shed owners and the department heads. Uh on 1216, the zoning department violated the will the pleasure of this commission by signing off on a plat on a space that reserves strictly for the uh planning commission secretary and in February the RPC direct directed the Jim I don't think we have anything about item G item GL Okay, let's stick to the flats instead of the shed cuz the shed we we set that precedent last month that everything that was done with those was clear. Miss Bowwin spoke to it. The rest of us did too. What they did was legal pass presidents. So, and they held a church camp this weekend even though they were denied. That's and again if if they're in the law that will be a matter of law enforcement. We can do nothing with that here. Okay. But please forgive me for interrupting and you go right ahead, Mr. Fox. Okay. I'll give you your time back, too. I'm not going to cut you short on that.

Okay. Let me regroup here for a second if you would. Yes. In February, the the uh this planning commission directed the zoning office to show proof of authority she had that she could sign off on these things. In March, the zoning department violated the will and the pleasure of the planning this planning commission by not doing so. the citizens provided the information for the for this planning commission but was but was dismissed and those same citizens were chastised by the chairman even though the information submitted is on the county website. Also, the RPC voted to continue as we have always done until this meeting even though those actions likely do not comply with Tennessee code. Lastly, a resolution was voted on and passed by this planning commission and was to be distributed to the planning commission of the uh cities of this county. The resol resolution came back modified by the zoning department. No one in this planet has the except the majority of this planning commission has the authority to alter any document presented by this planning commission. This thus the will and the pleasure and the direction of his planning commission was violated again. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. U Billers. I'm Bill Villers from 2202 Arrowhead

Drive and I'm here to talk about uh RPC subdivision approval authority and presumed county misconception stated at the March 25th meeting. I'm speaking for family and concerned residents. Among multiple comments at the March 25th RPC meeting, the chair said, "Or we inferred from comments to call for somebody's job and not have all the information is out of line." You provided some inaccuracies as to punishment. I did or somebody did accuse somebody of a misdemeanor out of line. Everything worked out okay for the sheds which are approved. Non-code compliant plat signature is okay because it fell in past practices and the signer had all the authority. None of those things are correct, sir. We and I'll try to explain. We've reviewed citizens comments and nobody stated that somebody should lose their job. We did say that whomever signed the sheds and plat mapap in secret is not qualified or authorized for decisional role with subdivisions based on JC county codes. Miss Baldwin said it better. The RPC can't delegate plaque signing approval to staff. RPC can only delegate a check the box review against RPC approved subdivision codes for certain plat. This is not a code plat variance decision or role but a difficult and necessary one. We have already presented to the county commission the need for another zoning staff member but not to remove anybody. No material difference in relevant information or inaccuracies as to punishment existed at the end of the meeting compared to citizens input. Miss Baldwin explained the Tennessee code changed changed their code regarding misdemeanor. However, citizens also uh cited the Jefferson County subdivision code still being handed out as current by the zoning office in Q1 and on the

website as of last night. A misdemeanor is committed by filing a plat without RPC approval signature. No citizen accused anybody of a misdemeanor. Citizens did site the Jefferson County subdivision code that the RPC should have approved. Everything worked out okay for the sheds which are approved. If it's okay to intentionally leave a code plat map recorded in Jefferson County, maybe I would not do that. The fix is easy. You can change septic approval from two fourbedroom to one 8-bedroom, then review and if fully code compliant, sign approve and have it recorded. What is out of line is defaming citizens with inflammatory inaccuracies. Mr. Chairman, lastly, non-code compliant plat signature is okay because it fell in past practices and signing all authority. That's not true. When you look at codes, your actions against the code Look at you either violate that code or you pass that code. All this stuff about sheds are approved, move on, no intent. We haven't had issues until now. Somebody told me to sign it. We've always done it this way. Past p. That does not fall into the equation. Now, having said all this, if I made a mistake, I will rely on Miss Katherine Baldin, who's more current, smarter than me, to to help you guys figure out what's right. Just want to give you a heads up to you're about 30 seconds past your 3 minutes, sir. I'm done. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Is the only part left. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to make a statement as well. That's May I ask I submitted my request to speak about the sheds on April 2nd and I was put last on the agenda. Okay. I am requesting to reorder the agenda so that I could speak to this issue which

is very important to the people here and to me. I'd like to address this issue. Would you allow me to do that? Bob, this is a citizens input time. We'll have time. We'll have time to speak. I would like to be able to speak to it. That's next on the uh the list after Mr. is Miss Kathleen Bills. I'm going to be referencing this. I have a copy for each of you with highlighting. So, if you could take one and pass it around, I would appreciate it. Thank you. Shall I start? Yes, ma'am. Good evening. Kathleen Viller's 2202 Arrowhead Drive, Dandridge, speaking about authority to approve plat. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, and the public, I want to clarify I am not calling for the removal of any county employee. I am not calling for that whatsoever. I inferred from the chairperson's comments at the last meeting that I was. The chairperson also suggested some of my comments were inaccurate. I take exception to that and point out the following. And this is the document I've handed out to you. The document I referenced is the Jefferson County subdivision regulations. They're

posted on the county website. I confirmed they're the most current and in fact current um as of last night and I made a copy of two pages of this 50 plus page doc for each of you. The highlighted areas show what I quoted. The yellow highlights the need for the regional planning committee secretary to sign. On the back side, there's a green or excuse me, pink noted. That's the verbiage about the misdemeanor which is still on our county rigs and the green highlights the unlawful buildings. So given this highlighted area shows specifically what I quoted, if you say I am wrong or inaccurate, then it says Jefferson County is wrong. I merely cited what is in the Jefferson County subdivision rags. And how is a citizen supposed to know what is the correct regulations if they're inaccurate if these are the ones being handed out? Hence, I felt the comments directed at me were in inappropriate and to use your word, sir, out of line. I'm not disputing, Miss Baldwin. Um, you had indicated that the misdemeanor wording was removed at the state level and appreciate knowing that. However, these subdivision rags that you have in front of you are still an existing code here in Jefferson County. They clearly indicate that the plats need to be signed by the secretary of the RPC and Miss Baldwin confirmed that the zoning staff cannot sign. Past practice or precedent does not mean it is okay to ignore any of the county or state codes. If this had been going on in Jefferson County for some time, which

it appears, then it's likely many plats have been improperly signed and are now recorded as such in the registars's office. I think it would be appropriate to find out how many of these plats there are, 10, 50, 100, maybe more, and then ask proper authorities if the past ones do need to be corrected or not, or is it okay just to accept what happened in the past, sweep under the under the rug those that were not properly signed, and move on. as far as never been an issue until the sheds. Maybe it's a good thing, sir, in the committee that attention was paid to the sheds or otherwise this non-compliant practice, past practice might continue on. And as far as the sheds, yes, a contentious issue. I think that plat needs to be corrected, including a review and approval signature by the RPC. Let me highlight quickly a situation that occurred over the weekend. Ma'am, I'm just going to let you know your 30 second class for three minutes. Thank you, sir. I'm sorry I can't talk quite as fast. I am fighting this cold. I'll be really quick in finishing. You're fine. Just want to let you know. Thank you. Um over the weekend at the sheds, 25 plus cars, 50 to 75 people there on a Saturday, well into the evening hours. Was this an Easter service? Not sure. There was a cross in the window. We know a church camp is disallowed in A1. Most of the 50 to 75 people seem to be inside the existing very small three-bedroom smaller older home on the site and it concerned a number of residents. Um crowded structures can point to fire concerns. We have pics supporting this. And yesterday and today a dump truck has been there spreading a lot of gravel seeming to widen the driveway by the smaller home maybe to accommodate more parking. Um, do we possibly have group assembly, excuse me, group assembly

going on here? Um, in conclusion, obviously the Jefferson County subdivision rags will need to be revised and also a little bit of additional research um out there. There are a number of counties surrounding us that still have this same wording that exists in the rags, in particular the misdemeanor and the unlawful buildings. And those um counties include Sevir, Hamlin, Granger, Johnson, Wilson, Campbell. Thank you so much and I appreciate the added time. Thank you, ma'am. Deborah, I forgot the last name. If I start to cough, I mean, Hi, Deborah Eps. My address is 1750 Ambrose Lane here in Dandridge, and this is concerning the Mullen's property. I spoke last month. Start over. I didn't hear anything. It's Deborah EPS, 1750 Ambrose Lane. I spoke last month about the the Mullins property. I do have photo shows in red the properties that are circled. There's three groups of people who do not want this in our subdivision. Um that shows the property that's in blue right there is the Mullen's property. So that gives you an idea of the relationship. the property that is ours, which is the very top one in red. We can see a it's probably 53 foot semi-trailers been parked up there too this whole time. Um I was reviewing the C2 general commercial district, what

that ruling covers and one of the things that it says is that the intent of this district is to establish areas for compatible business activities that require high visibility and accessibility. I don't consider this request for this piece of property for Mr. Mullins to to follow that. It also says the requirements of this district are designed to encourage the location of commercial establishments along major collector streets and hightra areas for maximum convenience for both local residents and regional travelers. I also see that not affecting what business he's wanting to put there in storing commercial equipment. Nobody's living on the property. It's just a place to to to dump his equipment until he needs it. Um, some of the things that we had proposed was the noise from the heavy equipment going in and out. Another big concern is safety because where this property is located and the driveway that he's wanting to use, there's sharp curves that are pretty much wooded with not good visibility. And as you can see from those photographs, there's a lot of really long trucks and flatbeds that will be hauling that equipment in and out. Um, we're concerned that there's not enough base in the road to support the traffic, the weight of the equipment coming in and out of the the driveway there that he's got noted on his map. Uh, we have concerns over property values being decreased because of it. And we have probably had in the last couple of months 10 to 15 people comment about what in the world is going on on that piece of property right in the middle of a residential area. We don't want it there. So thank you ma'am.

Last uh that I have for Miss Allen is Gil Gilan. My name is Gail Farzanigan. I live at 2535 Edgewater Lane, Dandridge. I want to say that I was surprised as a citizen of Jefferson County when I attended the last meeting of this commission when the chairman impuged the reputation of Professor Villers when questioning her excellent and I mean excellent research on Jefferson County regulations regarding approval of subdivision plat. I feel the chairman owes her a public apology. I'm certain that he didn't mean to hurt any Jefferson County person reputation, but it did happen in a public forum and I expect to see a public apology. Thank you. Thank you for your input, ma'am. We'll move on down the uh agenda and to new business. And the first item is final plant review for three lots on Kernney Road in New Market Tanner. Patty, hello. I'm just looking to try to finalize the subdivision of the lot uh that I have which is uh adjoining my personal residence at 425 Kernney Road in New Market.

Tanner, our our planner, has taken a look at this and she has some some items she came up with. I'll let her speak to those as we get started. Okay. Um, are you the surveyor? You're the property owner. I'm the property owner. You're the property owner. Okay. Um, the um the final plat as presented has a number of things omitted that are stipulated in the zoning ordinance. Okay. Um nothing it it's mainly just missing information. Um you can either and I'm I'm comfortable with the um with the subdivision uh as long as it is done with the condition that the surveyor has to provide this information. The setbacks on there are um there were a number of issues um and I can read them or Have you have you seen these issues? Have you seen uh No, sir. I have not um the tax information uh I could not find. I think the tax information is incorrect. Uh the rightway of Kierney Road is omitted. Uh provide information for your source of portable water. uh if it is a uh if it's a public utility uh it's lacking a signature block for the public certifying that it's appropriately rep you uh the names of the adj property owners are required those were not provided the signature block for the county road superintendent was omitted the signature block for the electric utility was omitted uh the front yard setback is 30 ft um setback as referenced in the notes is

incorrect and um the zone designation of the property is amended. Is there a copy of that I can have and I just need to deal with that uh with the person that did my survey. Uh it's a decision by the body if they want to approve it with the conditions or they want the plaque corrected and brought back. Okay. Does anyone have any questions for Mr. Mr. Chairman? Yes, sir. M Baldwin, you mentioned a 30foot setback. Are you referring to that there off the road? Yeah, front yard setback. It's just a big could I the setbacks are referenced here and it's reference is 20. Okay. Uh but you don't have a set back less than 30. Okay, understood. Oh yeah, that looks nice. Did they submit an electronic copy, I suppose, or did you make a copy for next month? get out of these things. Uh, not really. My My intent with the place is the 2.23 acres, the flag pole lot there. My neighbor who is on the other side there is planning on buying that from me. Um, and then I'm going to keep the uh the 1.9, the long skinnier one. I'm just going to keep that because it it borders my property. So, I'm not I don't really have any intent to do anything with it. The only thing it would hold up would be him purchasing that 2.2 two uh acre lot from and he just wants that so nobody builds a house beside him. So So it's not going to put an undo hardship on

anybody. No. So you be willing to track this stuff down? Yeah, I can bring it back and it's all on this everything that should be. Yes, I think if you got the same thing you got what you received. Okay. Yeah, I can get a motion on that. So with that being said, what's the pleasure of the board? I make a motion that we let him bring it back to us next month after he gets the needed information corrected. I will I'll second. Have a second. Any discussion on that? All those in favor of him bring it back next month with the proper information. I'm saying you can uh could you ask a survey or send a electronic copy of the plat? Okay. Yeah, I have a PDF I had him send me the other day. Yeah, it's very difficult to read one of those. So, if you get a P if he corrects it and sends a PDF. Okay. Uh that will facilitate review. Okay. All right. As far as my environmental stuff, is it it will I need to go through? Okay. So, it's it'll be good. Okay. Thank you all. Thank you. just need to bring back in be a new map. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Next item is item B, site plan review for an addition to an existing veterinary clinic located at 2040 Highway 11 E West New Market by Beaver Street Properties LLC. Howdy. I got nothing to say. Hey, y'all got any questions? I think our planner has a thing or two that she has found with yours as well and you'd like to go over those. I just received this. So, let look at it. It's fine. Um, I'm afraid Mr. Garrett didn't follow the

requirements of the zoning ordinance with regard to site plan preparation. Um, so the zone designation of the property is not on the on the site plan. Uh, the width of the ingress egress point. I think you put the uh a pipe that goes under your drive, but um and as I understand it, that's existing. Um, your point of access your point of access is existing. Existing. All I'm doing is adding on to the existing building. Okay. Um there's uh no location map. Your utilities and method of sewage disposal. It's all existing. I'm sorry. Everything's existing. Everything's existing. Um it says that you are going to pave the site possible. Yes. Um there should be some direction as to where if you're paving that where you're directing the storm water to make sure that you're not it's not entering the roadway. Um that is being redirected. I noticed that there the creeks on the back of your property. No, the railroad is on the back of the property. Uh well there's a the natural conveyance is behind. Yes. Um dimensions of your handicap parking space is omitted. Um, I wasn't sure what the secondary use of the property was. Oh, you're good. I was just curious. It is a rental piece of property right now at the trucking company. Okay. Um, and there's a note on here about closing the median. No, ma'am. Oh, yes, ma'am. There is. Yes, ma'am. Sorry. That was deleted. We grabbed the wrong one. That one I am sorry, but no, that one is wrong.

Um, that one I did screw up on. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Um, I mean, those were my comments. Those are the items that are requested in your zoning ordinance for reference on site plan. Um, if it's if it's an existing situation like your ingress, eress, that that's fine. All that's staying the same. It's just adding on to the side of it. Uh but you are paving and you are striping your I would like to new parking spots. I would like to pave that. Yes. But that's that's the paving amount is staying the same as is now. Okay. So there's no new no new paving, no nothing. Only new that's going to be there is a new building. Oh, you're not paving it. The parking lot size is the same as it is now. Okay. That is not new. Okay. But it's gravel now. It is graph. I hope for it to be asphalt. I'm assuming since they've got I mean it says 18inch pipe under your your uh cover underneath. Yes. So there that that's per t dot. Yeah. And if you're if you're sheeting your water off into the ditch that that's obviously serving that's fine. Yes. I just want to make sure it doesn't the highway is higher elevation than what this property is. Just want to make sure that it doesn't um uh enter the That would be impossible. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the site. It is actually it's close to where I live and it is actually dropped down maybe a foot from the 6 to 8 in minimum. I I would say yeah even more. The ditch the ditch line from the the highway is is probably a good uh 18 inches down and then Yeah. Yeah. where the actual building sits is lower. Yeah, it's right next door to Walker's Trucking if you're used to going down 11. That's correct. Yes. Right right against

Walker's Trucking right there. I want Tom to give me a tour next month of the county. Yeah. Yeah. I need to drive deal. So out of those things, Katherine, that you had saw as uh um some issues, the only thing the the handicap parking need dimensions on those. Yeah. I mean, when you hire a contractor, you you need to dimension stuff just so you get what you're asking for, right? Um that's not happening. So, with that being being taken care of, do you see any further issues? No. No. Uh, if he could just make those corrections on here when he submits it for his building for me. I'm sorry. Can It sounds like some of the corrections may not be necessary. Some Can we go So, what what's the what's left on the list? Uh, dimensions of the parking spaces, the handicap park. handicap. Yeah. Provide dimensions of handicap parking spaces would be left and uh that's pretty well it cuz you're you're anything else is zone designation of property. Yeah, that's I mean it's for me if I'm it's hard to know what is zoned if I go on um so I need to know that so I can look at the appropriate zone district for compliance. Um, yeah, I I can't see anything on the small PL. What's the dimensions of the uh I believe it's 40 by 35 or something like that. Okay.

So, basically, it's the zone designation, the dimensions of the handicap space. 40 ft by 35.44. You can write that. You better not. Somebody show off. Yeah. Enjoy it. I guess I could just lie. Somebody else could check me. Enjoy it while you have it. So, so with the parking spots for the hand, does he need that before he paves it? Is that what you're thinking? Or um it just needs to be addressed to be honest. Uh handicaps parking spaces, they have to be dimensioned differently. They you also have to have an unloading zone. That's that's striped as well. Um, you know, it's federal law, so it's not something you should Yeah, that's federal law, federal standard. North Carolina code is what everybody references. So, so yes, uh, be before you get your building permit or um, we don't have any inspection enforcement. So, uh, and I'm always trying to make sure that when he brings a contractor on site that the contractor knows what's expected. So, according to the things we discussed, you're at peace contingent upon identifying the zone destination of the property and then providing the dimension for handicap parking spaces. Okay. Does everybody understand that? I think you've got a question also. Nope. No. I've got a motion, but you finish. Mr. Chairman, you go right ahead, sir. Mr. Chairman, what's the pleasure of the board? I move to uh approve the site plan contingent upon uh correcting the uh dimensions for the handicap parking spaces and uh putting the zone designation on the

uh site plan. Okay, we have a proper motion. Do we have a second? We have any further discussion? Being none, all those in favor of approving it contingent upon those two items, please let it be known by saying I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Fish. Thank you, sir. Okay. Moving on down the agenda, we are to item C. Resoning request from A1 Agricultural Forestry to C2 general commercial for a portion of property located at 1359 Deep Springs Road for 12.636 acres Dandridge by Mullins Enterprise Incorporated. Stony and Brenda Mullins Eric Mullins Eric Mullins. How y'all doing? Doing well, sir. Okay. from uh last month's meeting that was going to be the document to include in the agenda packet does not constitute final plant to establish a separate lot for the purpose discussed. And uh I've talked to Stephanie and she pointed out some corrections to me. So this is fine because it's over five acres. So technically it does not constitute a subdivision. He's exempt, right? Uh, so your consideration at this point is up or down with the zone request, zone change request. Okay. So that takes care of the item you had on there. Do we have any questions for Mr. Mullins about this? I'll make a motion to approve. We have a motion to approve the request. Do we have a second? I'll second. Second. Any further discussion on this? All those in favor of approving the

reszoning request, let it be known by saying I. I. All those opposed. Passes. Thank you. I appreciate you all. I had no idea my neighbor was going to be here tonight. I didn't know if he was going to speak for me or against me, but I'm going to adjust that light on the pole. It is It is a little bright. I'm going to have the power company come back and adjust it. And I plan to sell more grass in the agricultural part. this summer. So, thank you, Mr. I move all my stuff inside. I appreciate y'all's time. Appreciate you. Item D, uh, a resolution amending the subdivision regulations of Jefferson County, Tennessee, regarding road construction bonding and asbuilt drawings. Um, boy, we've slept since then. Yes. Um, so in the um the last time that we met um we made quite a few amendments to the um to the ordinance or to the resolution. uh and I kept track of them. Um the uh opinion of probable cost uh was to be established by the engineer of record and uh the amount of the bond was to be 150%. Uh I think I had 120 in there. That's under item B. Shy instrument. Um I think everything um recording of the plaid is item four on the front page and it does clarify it

shall be responsibility of the developer to ensure the plat is filed um with the register of deeds office within 45 days of the date of the secretary signature. So that was in in uh added um you had um uh in the last paragraph um until all work is completed and recommended by the planning commission to the county commission. Hold on. Where are we at? Yeah, last paragraph. What page? Uh that was on uh item six. Item six. Okay. And then uh under item 7 20 ft uh you wanted that changed to 24T of unobstructed width. and um maintenance sh [Music] um you wanted to maintain um letters oh under nine I'm sorry okay maintenance and shity um a maintenance bond um for a period not exceed one year um and then the big one I think was the as built required under certificate of satisfactory completion. And again, I apologize. Um, we went over this several times about 9:00 in the evening and then we've skipped three months. Three, I think so. Yeah.

So I changed I wish I'd have gotten you this one. Um under B sh instrument we inserted the engineer shall provide an itemized list of infrastructure improvements and associated cost the which is an opinion of probable cost. The OPC estimate shall be submitted to the county road superintendent and public utility providers for approval and shall be based on an amount equal to 150% of the estimated cost of insulation that was under shy under method of posting shity was one an irrevocable letter of credit which is the LOC to back in here and um but what you're looking at is not exactly what we've got I and I just realized that okay um the shy um so a shy bond is is an insurance bond um and this bond shall be um so that did not make did it make it in the last one I sent out. I I think in in lie of us moving on with business and and if you wouldn't mind, Miss Baldwin, if we could get a copy of the most current current one. Yeah. I'd entertain a motion to postpone this. Uh so move, Mr. Chairman, but I have a question. If I get a second, we have a second. Okay. Any discussion? Yes, Mr. Chairman. Uh has any of this been seen by our highway superintendent? I'm saying no at this point in time. Okay. He's not. Would it be appropriate? I think Joe needs to be in the Oh, I definitely think he needs to be to provide his opinion. Um, a lot of this

is just cleaning up the process when when specifically when you have road construction uh that will be accepted and maintained by Jeff County as a public road and or uh utilities that will become the o ownership of your utility districts. Um the most of it's just clarity of verbiage. Um the shity instruments are really important um to make sure that you're clocking those. Also, I think by Tennessee code that authority rests with the planning commission does not rest with county road superintendent. It is the responsibility of planning commission. Um and so we I clarified that quite a bit. Um, the shy bond was something that, um, I clarify. I put in a lot of language to tie this down. Performance bonds by insurance companies can get a little dicey. Um, so I put some language in here to make sure that um, the county is protected. And then the last thing was something that um John Neil was specific very specific about. He wanted to as built for the roadway and the utilities submitted to uh the appropriate individuals. So that's in here. Okay. Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. If if I may amend my motion. I don't know if I can do that. Uh, the person that seconded my motion would agree with my amendment. I'll Okay. Uh, I'd like to postpone this item until our May meeting. And it would I would love if Miss Baldwin could get with our highway superintendent between now and then and let him review. And if

he has any comments, uh, those also come to the May meeting if he has any comments. I I think it'd be a good idea if Joe would be willing to just be with us for this. You agree with that? Okay. All right. He's downstairs, correct? In the basement. Okay. Yes. I just saw it signed today. We have a motion. Amended motion. Let's see. We got to vote on the amendment first. Well, he agreed to it. So, I think I think we're okay. Okay. We received the first motion to make the Yeah, you getting all this. Everybody knows what the amended motion is and we have a second on it. Is there any further discussion? I've got one question about the revoke of the bond here. The 30 days long enough. Um, where you at? Which bond? I guess it's shy approval. Bond number. Okay. Front page. Got it. Thank you. Yes. Oh, thank you. Now, I'm sorry. Redirect me. Second page. Second page. Second page. Middle page. 30 days. Is it his question? Was that enough time? So she got the I think that one.

Um it's always good to have more time but um when you're I think when you're looking at these things uh I think 60 days would be fine but um the one thing is that says the performance bond shall contain the provision stating the bond may not be revoked except upon written notice by a certified letter to the county attorney. I've got a typo there. And the expiration date if revoked shall be at least 30 days after the receipt of the written notice. Uh I assume that that is that is there any law that affects that? Um I think that's probably something that the county attorney should also weigh in on. Um, do you send all your bonds to your county attorney? Not always. They go to the finance department. They go to your finance. Do they keep We had We had a deal with that and they expired. So, they to be handled by finance department. And that's why everybody's so careful about it. Um, I can't especially during the 2008 recession. How many local governments not paying attention where and and development was styied and they let bonds expire or shies? Uh a bond is easy to cash out. Um a an insurance bond is a little more difficult. Um I tell people never wait till 30 days, start two to three months making noise about it. um one of my counties last week or last meeting uh we were down to five days for the bond expiring

uh when they finally walked in the door with it. So that's that's not a comfortable time frame. So um I'd like to maybe we could run this by the county attorney and see what he says. Okay. So is there any other questions, comments, or discussion? All those in favor of postponing to the May meeting with no saying I. I. All those oppos Next item, resolution 202411, amending the zoning resolution objection NC regarding a new zone C3 zone wholesale warehouse commercial district presented by Austin Brooks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh my first comment on this in Katherine's memos it said see attachment. I did not have an attachment so I have not seen the comments. Uh did you send out the last draft we had? No. Okay. Oh, are your comments [Music] the last draft we had? Um remember we didn't get to anything uh like the last two meetings and so I hadn't changed anything other than then processing. Yeah, that was the thing. So

you didn't have any comments about it. You were just directing to the document. Um, at the time it seemed that one of the things that was uh, especially on John Neil's mind was um, the ability to make your farms more productive. Um, I have talked to a number of different counties as far as this goes. Um, there are a number of counties that do allow this as and so I made I how I structured this was you have and you do not have this in your zoning ordinance currently. Um, you have allowable uses and then you have prohibited uses unless the BCA says that it's similar in nature to something that is allowed and then you can vote and say yes, we're going to allow this. Uh this is a conditional use. Uh it is allowed in Tennessee code and basically what it does is that it still goes to the board of zoning appeals but they have a very specific set of conditions to consider to make the use allowable. So, uh, if you'll look on, um, under item C, conditional uses. Um, so we add I added light industrial uses with minimal off-site noise, dust, or visual impacts. This would include micro distilleries, micro breweries, micro wineries, uh farm distilleries, uh B solar energy systems and wind energy systems, indoor recreation including video game arcades, billiards, pool rooms, bowling alleys. I think that this was in some of your

language. Uh item D was what I changed significantly. um value added processing and product sales of produce provided no more than 50% of the produce originates offsite. The minimum farm size is 25 acres. The examples would include jams, jellies, preserves, sauces, pickles, other things. All produce must be grown within Jefferson County or in a county which waters Jefferson County. All conditional uses must have access to public sewer and public water sources. I'm a little concerned about that from the standpoint of you don't have many areas with public sewer. It'd be all at the cities the um and all conditional uses must meet requirements for transitional nuisance green where applicable. So this is a tool you currently don't use. Um, I thought that it seems to me that in all of our conversations, the thing that people are most concerned about is um like chicken processing facilities, beef processing facilities um which can have negative off-site impacts in terms of u trucks, noise, uh off-site impacts for drainage, um smells, you know, a number of different things. But for your value added processing, uh for produce, I I think this is a way to make your farms more sustainable. Um one, if you're on a farm and you're uh and this is in in I think they do this in Granger County, especially for uh areas that have wineries. Uh it takes a lot of grapes to make wine and so it is an agricultural

use but they do allow grapes to be brought from other farms. I don't think Granger County has only um well and it's it's it may not be Granger. It may be Granger has planning authority. I go before them all the time. Are you sure it's not the county commission? Granger County has planning commission. Okay. I stand correct. It's news to me. Yeah. Well, so does Cotton County now, so there must be something in the water. Um, but one of the things I was trying to do is if you know there's an economy of scale of producing anything and as far as making it profitable, you got to have a really large farm to justify the expense and the uh economies of running processing for produce. In this instance, um, most smaller farms, unless they're really large, may not have that. So, if you allow allow this to be done, um they can take the produce from a number of farms around or within Jeff County or farms in counties that touch Jeff County. Um I think you would get more of an economies of scale of producing the items we're talking about here. Um, one of the things that I think everybody has concern with is is the loss of farmland and the loss of being able to make a living at it. And so if you take that away, um, I don't think that's helping Jeff County. And I don't think it is conducive for the farmer to go and get a commercial zone designation or worse yet an industrial zone designation where these things would be allowed. And at that point they if the farm goes out of business then you have

um you have industrial wide open industrial and wide open commercial zone designations uh just scattered around trying to make your farms profitable. I think the biggest sticking point we've had in this is that being under conditional use not being listed under permitted use. It's if I remember the conversations we've had in the past, that's where the sticking points been was not to put it under a conditional use, but it be allowed under permitted use and not put all those and that that was a conversation that John Neil had several times. My understanding was that that was the reason that it the provision could be adopted by the county commission is that people were concerned if it was a use by right that it would not be limited to produce one um and that it might would allow other things like um the chicken I think it was actually supposed to be listed as value added agricultural processing I think agriculture was a word that was in that and that was to be under permitted use. Now I I could be wrong but that's that's the best of my recolleation or recollection of that. The big sticking point with the whole thing was moving it from permitted or moving it from conditional to permitted because again you know we're kind of tying the hands of farmers with that. Randy, do you have your hand up? Go ahead. Uh, brought this resolution originally and the intent was to create a zone for these smaller businesses who have had to come in and apply for an industrial zone. Of course, when you apply for the industrial zone, I don't think any of us really

want an industrial zone next to our house. So there was all this push back and a lot of times the the business owner was not putting anything any not putting anything in that was very invasive. It was actually pretty reasonable what they wanted to do. But because we didn't have a better place to put them, they had to ask for that industrial zone. And I've seen in this county, as I'm sure you have, a lot of heartache caused because somebody wanted to open a welding shop or a, you know, just a a small business and but they but they had to apply for the industrial zone. So my thought on this was to create the C3 to give a zone where those smaller businesses could fit in and something that uh would make the community around wherever this is more comfortable so that they're not, you know, we we never want to see neighbors fighting one another. So we don't want to see that coming out. Uh, as far as the value added processing goes, I'm not crazy about putting it in this zone because we're talking about agriculture at this point and uh, you know, you and I have have talked. I'm not opposed to it. My concern is I don't know if we ever got a definition on value added processing. I know that was discussed 6 months ago and we read the state's definition of that that night that they had put out but we do not have it in our regulations. So, uh my concern and you know we're going back six months in that definition. I couldn't see the difference in a 30 acre tomato farmer who wanted to make their own salsa and bush beans. So, you know, anytime you reszone property, once you reszone it, you're allowing uh a you're allowing uses. The definition that I read, as I

recall, and I probably should really do a refresher on this, was I didn't see where the difference was between a small operation and a fullcale I think what most would consider industrial operation. And I think with what she put after that, some of the the stipulations on it, it could still file under permitted usage with the same. And she has those in what she has there. I I don't uh I don't believe those uh because it's in the conditional use, I believe those conditions only apply to those items. I don't know that they would carry over to the permitted uses. I could be wrong. Can Miss Baldwin speak to that? Item A is your permitted uses. If you want to add something as permitted, it needs to go into that section. Uh the prohibited uses um still is determined by the board of zoning appeals and you've got some there's some examples in there. One of them which is slaughter houses and custom slaughter houses. Um, again, the conditional uses is would make the zone a little bit more um allowable as far as and there may be things in the conditions that you want to move like the micro distilleries, micro breweries that can be you can take that item and add it into your permitted uses. Um, I mean, when we first when I first did this, um, I think it was more for discussion than approval to disc to bring things to the table that you might want to discuss. Um, the only one that uh, I garnered that there was some um, angst about was a value added processing. So that was one that I put

some stipulations in as to keep it small. And you could still have it in permitted usage with that stipulation attached to it. Correct. No. If if you're going to add these, it needs to be you need to have conditions. You need to have uh compliance established before allowing it. Now you could just say value added processing is permitted. I think we need to put the word agriculture back in that because you can process lots of things, right? Yeah. Metal. Yeah. Yeah. And that was the the whole intent for the value added. It was strictly for agriculture. Yeah. And this it says value added processing and product sales of produce. But um why don't we say agricultural throughout the and again um These were we were just getting to the point of discussing this. Absolutely. When we said u and as I recall it was like 9 9:30. Um absolutely and then we've taken a break from it. So I'm already on it at this point. What would be the benefit of adding the into the C3? Am I may not be grasping it exactly right because I remember you talking about processing plants. Uh Mr. attention now they may their neighbors to where they was willing to put in one in they could have put one in on a smaller scale in agriculture and it would have been okay but because they want to kill x amount it moved it up so I guess my question is what prevents somebody from doing any of this in agricultural me and what's the benefit of putting in C3 my understanding is if it's an agricultural you can only uh do value

added for items that you produce on the property that you own. So this would be allowing them to go to other farms and bring them. So the processing that they were going to do that facility if it had passed was for other customers or other farmers in the area to bring to that. And I guess that's where my thought process is a little skewed on this. I just don't want to do anything that's going to hinder the the farm the real the rural field of Jefferson County. And if we have to make them put it in a C3, will that affect the small town farmer that's got a little stand by the road? Where's our cut off point in the making of it C3? Um, and if it's a silly question, just I think that needs to be directed. I don't know what kind of answer you're going to get from me here, Randy, but I'll try. Uh, so my understanding right now, uh, you know, we have a dairy over in New Market. They produced their milk 100%. So they didn't have to reszone. They didn't have to do anything. They They're already in compliance because they produce 100% of their product. When you you take a cow, it's worth $2,000, you butcher it, you're adding value to it by creating a consumable product. So I believe if you wanted to on your farm open that up and slaughter your own cows and everything, you would be in compliance. And then our zoning rags do allow for and somebody correct. Is it 25 a month? A week. 25 a week. A week. Okay. Uh because a friend of mine has one in White Pine and does beef and hogs and sheep. Uh my concern is and I think speaking to your point was if we're trying to do something for

agriculture and I think I explained my intent uh this wasn't for agriculture. This was for like machine shops and things like that because I think we've seen the struggles some small business owners have had a Yeah. So with the agriculture I would rather look at doing something in the agricultural zone but of course we would want to have restrictions in place to make people feel comfortable and if you the issue and going back to that definition is what is the difference in the you know a small family farm with a dairy and the bush beans plant because they're both taking if they're bringing the products from the outside they're both taking the products and they're adding the value and that's where I got concerned was if we say yes this property can be that and in our minds it's a small business but it could it turn into what most would see as an industrial zone and and in that case we're effectively creating another industrial zone and we're not addressing the problem that this was intended to address at all. So uh I think for moving forward I'd like to revisit I know I think you've already done this. I'd like to revisit the definition for what did you say Brian? A value added agriculture. Value added agriculture. I would rather see if we could do something even if it's just the first step a heavy restricted value added processing in the A1 zone even if it's heavily restricted just to do something for for agriculture. And pardon me but I think what we were doing here was kind of stepping up. This was not going to affect what was already allowed in day one. What was allowed in day one would stay there. Correct. A new part for the agricultural processing to go into it was in addition to him the smaller farmer just because

he had to go to C3 and I wanted to make sure that we wouldn't. That's definitely let me ask a question. Currently in your agricultural zone district because Mr. Neil would always say, "If I take my tomatoes, I can make salsa from the tomatoes I produce. If I buy my neighbors on the next farm over, if I buy his tomatoes, at that point, I cannot do that." And so the that that that was the uh that was his concern and that it was not allowed in agricultural and it was not allowed in in any your commercial zones. So when you started creating the C3 that seemed to answer Mr. Neil's concerns as well of allowing uh the production uh utilizing your produce and others produce. Um and that's why we considered putting it in here. Yeah. That John was for the way it's worded. No, he didn't think it went far enough. He just wanted to say you could do it again. Yes, the the original conversation and the original intent with the agriculture was to see an impermitted uses not in conditional in this C3 and that was that was the big sticking point where U and just because we have some other areas we need to tidy up on this and stuff you know is this something we'll be willing to revisit in the May meeting and get some clarification on some of those definitions and stuff that way we can have a better conversation about it I I feel like maybe we've already done some of this, but I'd like to do it again. Oh, yeah. I think we're spending some time on. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh so, let me ask you this. Would it be appropriate if

you want to allow value added processing in C3? Um as a permitted use. as a permitted use, then do you want to add it in the in the agricultural zone district as a conditional use? So it is um so you can establish conditions on as I understand it that's the thing you can't do that he was definitely trying to pave a way to do that. Am I am I correct? Is that how you guys understand it? Clear as Yeah, that's y'all caught up. Brandon, you're suggesting taking it out of this completely and just looking at A1 and amending what's there now to include this. And I think our intent was not to mess with what was allowed in A1 currently, which we we wouldn't be by the way, right? But to move this from conditional to permitted in this just to enhance the possibilities for value added agricultural for added agricultural producing in the county. It was to enhance that not to hinder it in any way. It was just give another avenue for it to to do more. Yes. Like I said, the original intent was to try and help these small business owners. Uh John Neil brought this issue up, which I think we're all aware that it is an issue. My concern I guess it really just continues to hinge on the definition of value added processing because I was not able to wrap my mind around what's the difference in bush beans bringing in

truckloads of beans and curing them and canning them adding value and a little you know ice cream parlor or something like that. So I guess the the whole argument there is going to hinge on on the definition. Absolutely. because one becomes industrial and one stays value added equally and it's actually something that um it's very hard to do in zoning uh from the standpoint of you're you're talking about how big something is. You want to allow something but if it gets too big it needs to go somewhere else. Um I think that's exactly what you're saying and I think that's that's where I'm at. Where's the stopping point from selling a few jars of honey to mass production of honey? uh mass production company. Yeah. And it it's one is considered a craft, one is considered industrial production. Right. Correct. And um so there is definitely where we need to get some definitive language and what constitutes each and and we can continue this discussion if you all like, but I think until we've got some more information in front of us, we'll just we're circling where we Yeah. But at least we're we're we've got feed on where we're supposed to go. Okay. Is that a motion to postpone this this particular discussion? Yes. I'd like to have a second. Any further discussion on the postponement of this discussion? Uh just I uh just request uh that whenever we resume the discussion that if Miss Baldwin would provide us with uh help me out, Mr. Chairman Tennessee Department of Just a definition of value added agricultural production. Okay. Yes. Burbage. Okay. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Let me know by saying I. I. All those opposed. Thank you all. And that again great

discussion get some. Okay. Next item. is the item F, resolution to increase the minimum lot size for the A1 agricultural park zone. Mr. Brooks, I think I'm going to relieve everybody real quick. I'm not looking for any action tonight, Mr. Chairman. We had we had uh some discussion last month about this and uh you had mentioned perhaps some sort of a roundt discussion. Uh do you have any idea how something like that could be accomplished or have you given any thought to it? I I have given some thought to it and I think we would need to to involve our our property owners, our agricultural property owners, some of our realtors, our developers as well. You know, get a diverse group involved in that conversation and I'm open to suggestions on moving forward with that. Would would uh would it be proper? Are you still in long-range planning, Randy? I'm afraid so. you you just show up to all the committee meetings, don't you? I got everything. Would it be more appropriate for our long range planning committee to work on that? I know we have a lot of business that comes to us monthly to attend to and I'm not looking to clog up the calendar. I hate to add to anyone else's task, but I don't care to do it to Randy. We could and but would also like the opportunity to be involved in that conversation. Yeah. But I guess what I'm saying is if if they host it, we're not

tying up people that come here for their business uh to be handled. Is that absolutely okay. Uh so with that I would make a motion to send this resolution to the long range planning committee for recommendations. And with the resolution, I would also request that uh maybe this group could be involved if anyone here so chooses and uh any property owners that are interested, which they can handle the advertising and all that, but Okay. Okay. So that that's my motion. That is motion. We have a motion. Do we have a second? I have a second. Motion second. We have any further discussion. Passing this along the long range plan being none. All those in favor saying I. I. Yes. No, you're fine. So, we have a group that's been meeting at noon. Well, we met today and noon last month. We met at night. That's public service. That's public service. And one thing I'd asked the mayor was maybe if we could establish a committee to uh look at some of these zone issues in depth earlier today on the day that I come up here. Uh, and so he set up the committee and and I don't know which I don't understand the charges of each of your committees and I knew that there was a long range planning committee but um, you know, I'd like to be involved in the discussion so so I can follow and and uh, and I'm I'm very much learning about agricultural how you use zoning to protect and uh, encourage agricultural

production. Um, so I need to listen to you guys. And um, are either one of you on that committee that decided Are we talking about long range planning? No, I don't think it was only. It was It was the the committee that met today. That was public service. Public service. I But there's planning commission members on it. There's I guess I'm not sure how you constitute your committees. It's five commissioners. I think only three of them show up. I'm just I mean I'm not trying to be rude or out of line, but it's really we have the same three show up. Yeah, you have one that shows up that's not on the committee. Yeah. Yeah, he was late coming in, right? No, I came in on time. I stepped out. Left. Hey, no jokes. He he did leave before the committee was over. I did leave early and I know at one point when I stepped out I actually bumped into uh one of the members of that committee who showed up late but uh did have a firehouse subs a little bit extensive journey well it that's um since that one could could I wonder if we could get a committee to meet like that time frame um well that would be up to that committee we can't dictate that that would be long range planning if they were tasked with it that would be the committee we meet with. So I think Randy they normally meet. Do they have a I was trying to look it up on my Well, there's been some change over in that committee. So they probably need a little bit of a reorganization to decide how they want to. But you can see how confusing this is when you do something and you wait three months and then you do something else. uh especially when it's in a draft form and if if you track it and and work on one till you get it right then you

also have people who are informed that'll be voting on it how you arrived at something or how you what you base your decisions on uh so it it really grees the skids once again you know when you're doing this at the last thing of the meeting it's very difficult I agree um and uh if you can't you you can never know how many items you're going to have on the agenda to know if you're going to get to this item at 8 or at 10. Yeah, if we could have something put together when we Yes. Commission meeting. So, the last meeting was at 4:30. So, or yeah, at 4:30 in Jimmy Carmichael and myself, Katie Huffaker and Mayor Pots was in attendance. So, I would say reach out to the mayor and think which one he thinks this needs to be going to before we say where we want to send and I don't know how that motion would go but he would know which committee would be better to handle we've already sent it to long-range planning because we voted on the motion um well and I wish I'd spoke I'm sorry I didn't speak up prior to but uh if if there is a standing committee that it would be just like this meeting 12:00 fourth Tuesday every Tuesday. We do not have that. I mean, a committee could choose to do that, but that would be their business. So, and we actually have an agricultural committee in the county, I think. Yeah. Involving the chair from it or at least representation from that committee on this committee would be a good idea. Yeah. from from everything I understand and looking at your zoning ordinance, you you it does need some work and it needs some um it's very difficult to jump around like this. Um so let's let's go to Mr. pots, Mayor

Pototts, and see what his thoughts are and let's let's look at trying to get something established when we can have those. And they're doing this short shortterm rentals right now, but I think that and we did I and I don't see it going much longer than maybe one, maybe one month, maybe one more year. But at that point, that might be a good time. Okay. Okay. Moving on down the agenda to item G. Discussion to confirm that all plat survey reviews and approvals must be done by the regional planning commission. If the regional planning commission should decide in the future to authorize reviews only, not approvals, but a non-planning commission staff member. This can only be done by following Tennessee state codes presented by Bob. Mr. Chairman, I don't want to to the dead horse or dead shed. Back in November 2024, Mr. Brooks asked our neighbor our neighborhood to come to a meeting regarding the shed. We had this room filled overflowed. There were standing room only here. There were people outside waiting to come in because of this very important issue that was affecting our community. I would point out to you that this weekend when I went to the uh area where the sheds were being built, I saw approximately 200 people. None of them could speak English. I almost tempted to call ICE. And everyone of every time I wanted to speak to somebody, they would stick a phone because you can get a translation off these things. Well, we have a group of buildings over there,

so-called sheds, church, whatever they keep changing at all the time that's impacted our neighborhood and the quality of life that we have. Now, in November 2024, the sheds were clearly denied by this committee without prejudice. It was a motion made by Austin Brookke and it was denied without prejudice. On December 24, a revised shed plan was submitted uh and signed by the zoning office as approved. It was not signed by this committee or its secretary. It was simply not signed. The plant was filed and recorded by the register of deeds without final approval by this committee. Now, the crucial role of the RPC involves plat approval. This is why I sat on this committee because I want to be involved in the approval of plants. Now, Jefferson County never delegated as far as I know and all the studies that I've done and maybe I'm a retired professor, maybe a professor. When I read the rules, it sets clearly you cannot delegate the responsibility of subdivisions to its staff. It's us that makes a decision. Now, the reporting plants were not approved in writing by the PRC or signed by the PRC. secretary um Miss Springfield and which is considered from everything that's been said tonight is a misdemeanor. It's violated the regulations that we have on the books. Now, any building created in violation of this JC subdivision regulation shall be deemed unlawful unless I'm misunderstanding it. The county court may bring action to cause the buildings to be vacated or removed from my understanding. Now, where do we stand with the sheds? The sheds should not be standing there because it has been disapproved by this by this PRC,

where are we going to go from there, Mr. Chairman? To to answer your question, uh it was denied and that was the church camp that was being denied. I'm not sure where they've come up with the idea that they wanted to turn the buildings that have been constructed into individual residences on a two lot subdivision. But that is what was approved in in December. It was not a church camp. It was not a short-term rental at that time. It was two separate single family dwellings. what was approved. I went back and talked to person who had been chair for about 12 years of planning commission talked to other folks who had been on planning commission and this has been being done for a long time. Miss Villards I think done some research, Mr. Villers or whoever did that research but and could not come up with it. Now I'm not to say that you overlooked it. I didn't look at the information you had. I've talked to the people that who have been doing what we're commissioned to do tonight for several years. Several years. And it has been the common practice for that to be done in this county. Still today, our cities in the county, as long as it's in the growth boundary, are doing the exact same thing every day that it's brought to them. even though it's wrong. Well, from what Miss Baldwin told us, it is something that can be done if the planning commission chooses to do so. So, I don't know what took past in the last 20

years or ever how many years it's been when someone said, "Hey, let's let them start doing the two lots." But obviously at some point in time somebody gave them the authority to do that because they've been doing it and and we can't erase the past 20 years of history. I mean it's been done. So either all those are wrong. Yes, that's right. Or or there's a point in time that no one knows anything about or that's didn't get recorded because somebody was listening to somebody in the crowd writing the minutes and didn't jot it down. I don't know what took place in the past 20 years, but I know what has been common practice with this. That's where I'm at. That's what we've got to go on. I don't have the documentation. Don't know where to start looking for it. But the people, our predecessors, that has been the common practice. And you can go to the cities and talk to them. As long as it's in the growth boundaries, they're still doing it today. I talked to them today. I talked from today and Miss Bowwin, correct me if I'm wrong, but I want everybody to hear this and I won't take that mic. It's on. It is a permissible practice to let that person do the two lot subdivision. And the reason I was told, I said, well, why' they do it? I said, what was meant to be accomplished by allowing this? And they said, because we were sitting there till 10:30 and 11:00 at night in the morning. I've been here for 40 years and I before that happened it was midnight. Yeah. And if I could just say a word when I started rebate with the contract count instead of letting the state operate the county was one of these issues. It was taking somebody coming in here wanting a permit to build a home. has taken them somewhere up to

two, three or four months to get a building permit, a separate permit. So, they decided to go to contract and in that process, this is where this came into play. And I think if you're here, everybody was here that night, John Neil made the statement that the reason we started doing the two lot subdivisions in house was our department can approve them a lot quicker than they were doing it before. And as if we get it approved, we can bring it to the planning commission office, the zoning, Tim and the staff. Tim would look at it and they said, you know, we're fine with him doing this to keep prolonging the farm. You know, Mr. Jones is wanting to give one lot to his wife, his daughter to start a house and not keep them tied up for three or four months in this process. So all this came into play whenever they went into a contract county on septic had to speed up the process pering process all over through the county because people are coming in here the ones that came here and it's moved in here. I'd like for you to tell me how quick you got a permit how quick you were able to build a house from where you came from. And this was the reason all this transpired. We go contract, we get a separate permit. You don't wait dog gone two or three months, you know, seven 10 days when I was here by myself. We speed it up now to, you know, five to seven. But, uh, you get your permit, we can take it over to the zoning. Tim at that time look at it. Right now, Stephanie is looking at it, which is qualified to do so. And we both sat down to make sure that everything is proper. If we had any questions, we would call David or whatever, we'd be calling you. If we had

any questions on the two lot subdivision, are we looking at this, right? So, you're not. It's not that we just don't sign off on because it's a two lot subdivision. We do our due diligence on it. And it's not to say we don't miss something sometimes because nobody's perfect. But that's how all this came into play is to speed up and let everybody wants to come in here. bill not sit here and go through red tape for four or five months or whatever and the person's want to sell their property loss and sell their property and uh I'm going to voice my opinion if I can about this. Absolutely. By doing this, you're going to be sitting here. I don't y'all aren't aware how many the lots come through like that. Two lot subdivisions. You'll be here 10 11 o'clock every night at plan commission to prove these. Now I've got a you know I've got property guy comes up and wants to buy my property and says uh you on that corner I'll be willing to buy that off of you. I'll give you $50,000 for it. I'm going really wanted 25 so I'm going to act like you know I really don't want 50 but I'll give you 50 if you'll close this out in two weeks. I'm going to be in here. I want to buy it. If you can't sell it to me I'm going to look somewhere else. Well, now what are you going to do? Everybody's sitting here, what do you want to do? You want that property sold in that two days so you can make 25,000 more of what you was willing. So I'll call Eddie Garrett and say, "Eddie, get that flat done tomorrow." Then somebody called me and say, "Carter, get over there and get me a SE permit and get me a soil science and get me a soil map this week." I've called Churchill over here and Dren County attorney have them do me a deed. I can sell you this property even though

I don't want to. I'm going to have it ready for you by Friday. Okay. All I've got to do is come in, I sign off on it. I take it to Stephanie. She looks at it. It meets all the requirements. We've got some new requirements we're putting on mounts that you're want that we'll be doing. That's in your subs. I did not. It's all on there. She approves it. I approve it. It's recorded. And the guy's made his $50,000 on his lot. But now with the process you're wanting to do, the guy goes, "Oh god, I forgot. I've got planning commission to go through." They're scared to death of planning commission. I'm Eddie Garrett, surveyor. I see this every day in every county. Mr. chairman before there was a yes staff I'm a Eddie I realize that give me give me one second okay you got the floor Eddie I'll come right back to you good well I was just going to say that you know you're just holding up the process of people being able to sell property you know because the guy that won't us closed in two weeks he's going to have to wait for planning commission I go in and and take it to Steph and she goes well Tommy you just missed deadline so it don't go on till next month and then it's got to be approved the next month and then if there's anything wrong with it then it goes the next month. So you're you're looking to sell a piece of property that the people in this county voted to speed up the process by us going contract and this doing two lot zoning doing two lot subdivisions to prohibit this from happening. somebody sitting two or three months want to sell a piece of property lo ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh I want to address first the uh I I I contacted the county clerk. He

couldn't find a resolution or anything. Uh I think some citizens have looked through minutes. We haven't found where this body ever delegated that authority. So, I have to assume that it wasn't done. I'm going to challenge you on that right there. Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it wasn't done, somebody was at peace somewhere along the way with it being done or it would have been protested before 20 years. It was done at county commission. Okay. So, if we looked at county commission, that's where that's where when they created the zoning department, I was here. We didn't have a staff. Mr. Chairman, if I could if we let everybody in the audience talk, it's gonna I I understand, but this is something. Okay, you got the floor. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, so if that is the case, if this body does choose that they want to do that, I think there should be like a formal delegation done just so from here on there is something that we can point to and say if that's what this body chooses to do. uh just uh an opinion. Uh we have had citizens quoting things that they have found on our county website relating to our county regs. If those are incorrect, we need to correct those. If there's anything or if it doesn't match up with state law, we need to correct that. Does two lot subdivisions is two lots specified in anything that's been quoted? That I'm just saying I'm just asking the question. just saying is is is a two lot subdivision being specified? In general, if we have anything on our website, I think we need to make sure we go through it and that we're in compliance with state law. I don't I don't I don't think that's controversial. I think we can agree that, you know, we want to make sure we're doing it right. Um and let me ask Miss Bobin while we're on that so we're not having to circle back to it. You said that is a practice. It is

permissible. Correct. Yes, it is. Okay. Everyone heard that? No. Okay. I asked Miss Baldwin if that is a practice, the office signing off on two lot subdivisions. Is that a permissible practice under state law? Under state law. Under Tennessee code annotated. Uh you may or may not believe this. Uh the uh legislature uh enabled uh up to 25 lots to be approved by staff. If there is uh multiple plats, meaning that the engineering is done, a preliminary plat has been done, engineering for roadways have been done, they can approve up to 25 lots. Now, I don't know anyone who does that except for like Knox County, city of Knox, about every county around us, but the legislature has said 25. Okay, let me follow up on this problem real quick. We're not wanting to do 25 lots. We're just wanting to even question whether I should mention it, but it is in Tennessee code. Two lots together. Uh, let me let me address a couple things. Yes, ma'am. one, uh, it is not unusual for Tennessee code to change and local ordinances not to follow suit, but state law preempts. So, if state law says it is no longer a misdemeanor, that rules, I don't care what your regs say. Uh, so is assuming that that's a uh, you want to say that a misdemeanor has occurred, that is not true. State law preempts. Um this is standard for two lots in every county that I have ever worked in. Uh the only thing that was uh that is uh it is

standard protocol the subdivision plat still had to comply with your subdivision regulations. Uh I'm sure that Stephanie and Tom are doing that appropriately. uh if they determine that uh the plat does comply with the subdivision regulations. That is just checking the boxes. I said this last time. If you want to effectuate change, you're looking at what you're changing as far as the criteria within the subregs. Otherwise, they're checking the boxes just like I do when I give you a list of things omitted. I'm checking boxes. Um that should be corrected. I'm sure they're doing the same thing. Once the plat has been approved by the staff, it still has to be signed by the secretary of the planning commission. And the way it reads is the dulyeleed secretary uh by the planning commission. That's how the the verbiage in state law. So, I think the only mistake was made was that it was not coming to get Miss Sue to sign them. As far as uh any of them being unlawful or anything like that, I don't think that that's the case. Uh I think from here forward, I agree, Austin, that there should just be a vote to clarify. But if if you would determine to not allow the two lot subdivisions to be approved by staff, that would be uh different from every Senate County in the state of Tennessee probably. May I ask a question? That's you. I I live in the Forest Glenn. Oh, I lived in the Forest Glenn subdivision. There's about 20 30 40 acres there. Is it possible someone to just create a subdivision within a subdivision? Yes. It's just just I mean so I have seven acres I have seven acres in my property in the subdivision.

Tomorrow I could go to Stephanie say I would like to create a subdivision a two lot a two lots in my seven acres that is will that be permitted if you meet the criteria. What is the criteria of the subdivision regulations? The primary requirements are in the final plat. It's under article two. The primary requirements of the information to go on the plan is in article two. The criteria for two lots is under the article three under the section titled lots. It lists the uh uh things like the frontage on a public road. It mentions easements along the side and rear lot lines. Uh it says if you got a creek running through your your property, it has to have a 20 foot easement for repairing and buffer. So the the criteria for the actual lot is in article three, but the items that go on that plat are in article two. Thank you. And if you meet those, you can get your subdivision approved. Can't wait. And that is state law. You cannot arbitrarily just say this person meets this set of criteria. This person meets a different set. It's a level playing field. Mr. Chairman, do I still have the floor? I wasn't done. Okay, Mr. Chairman, give me one second right here. It's a private issue. Uh I would just ask that no comments from the audience. We had citizens comments already. So if we let one, we got to let them all proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh there was a little bit of talk about the sheds and I was just going to clear up the timeline if if that's permissible and I'll be super quick. I promise. Often I ask this question moving forward

with any further discussion about the sh because I think everything to be discussed has been discussed and been said it's been permissible and it's done. If I could just speak to a timeline just clear up an inaccuracy. Absolutely. And I'll be super quick Mr. Chairman. Uh the first thing that happened the group asked for a church camp that was denied by the BZA. Uh the next thing that happened was they came before the regional planning looking to do a three plat subdivision. I believe uh most of us were well some of us were here and would call that that was denied without prejudice. That was in November. That was in November. We did not meet in December and then uh uh two plat uh was approved in the zoning office which sounds has been standard practice. I would just again say if that is the the standard practice, I think since no one could find anything pointing to that, I think if that's what this body is wanting to do that there should be some sort of a formal action on that to move forward. I would like to talk to our attorney to see fine see what that would need to consist of to do that because if we've been doing it we're just making it permissible for us to do something that somebody and I'm not going to state my source county commission already give that authority well we asked for the source and it wasn't provided so uh county commission and if we need to go back and dig on those minutes maybe that's something that shows in Yeah, I asked for that in January. But uh just a couple I asked for the source wherever it was. My understanding under state law is it would have come from this body that that of course like she spoke to that that can change. So perhaps it was different 20 years ago. The catechism has no perview of your

subs. Okay. Well, um the uh I think Miss Baldwin's addressed this two meetings in a row now that all plats are to be signed off by the regional planning secretary, so I'm sure we're going to correct that moving forward. Um I think we have already done that and then there's actually some waiting for her to sign. Okay. Uh Mr. Carter spoke to this that we don't know how many lots it would be if if we were to move forward with that. Is there an answer? Like if if we were to say we want all plats to come before this body, I mean would that be 20 a month, 40 a month? Does it vary? Do is that that may be a hard question to answer on the spot? Yeah. I mean, she just had five to sign for tonight's meeting from last month to this month. No, just from last week. Just from last week. Okay. So, if you look at five a week, it could be 20. Could be 20. 20 per month easily. Okay. five today, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. With that, I yield. Thank you. And thank you for being thorough in the timeline and making those corrections. Thank you. Before we Okay. Is there any other discussion about item G? How does the body want to move from here on? And and again, we we know that past pass practice has been established. We do understand that all of our neighboring counties do this, but they do five block subdivisions. We're just wanting to keep it two as far as I'm concerned. That may be a little conservative, but Randy, I'd like to make the motion to postpone it to next month. the time that you can get with the attorney on that.

I'll I'll second that. We have a motion to second. We have any further discussion about postponing until he said next month or until Doug and get clarification of what needs done. Um the the one caveat this is either combining or separating two lots. Um and that is with no utility extensions, no road construction, no uh any kind of anything that affects roadways or utilities cannot be done by staff. That rests solely with the planning commission. And I it doesn't matter how many lots you're looking at. Um but that's not driveways, that's roads. That's roads. That's roads. Um and um I don't I don't know many counties that do five with the exception of like a Knox County. Um but two is very standard. Okay. Mer, do you have something you want to say? I wanted just to hear. Okay. Good. Is there any further discussion on postponement until we can speak to Mr. and get clarity on how to move forward with all those in favor of postponement? Let me know by saying I. I. All those opposed. Motion passes. Okay. We have one citizen that has sed patiently and waited for her time to to speak because her item was on the previous agenda, not tonight's agenda. All right. So, if Miss Carolyn Allen would step forward. Thank you. My name is Carolyn Allen and I live on Ker Road in White Pine and I have a question for this body. If this body makes a decision regarding an allowable use, I guess it's board of

zoning appeals, allowable use in a particular zone, but later reconsiders that decision and believes that that decision was made in error. What is the procedure to correct the decision? Parliamentarily, pardon me, parliamentarily. The procedure, how do you fix a mistake? I think someone from and my parliamentarian is not with us, but I would understand it to be that the folks who were on the winning side of the vote, the prevailing side. The prevailing side. One of those Thank you. You mean somebody who voted for it? Okay. Would have to bring it back up. So, okay. Someone who is on the body. Yes. On the body. And it's Am I wrong in that, Randy? Make sure I understood what he was saying. The way I understand it on county commission, if we have something that fails, the one on the prevailing side, if I voted against it and it make sure I'm saying it right, if I vote against something and I'm on the winning side, I can bring it back up. If I change my mind and I feel like it was a good motion or a good thing after I got more information, I can bring it up. The losers cannot bring it back up. Is that the way you understand it? I probably would have said the failing side, but but your words fine too, Randy. I find myself on that side quite regularly. Does that give clarity, Miss Allen, to what you were asking? that somebody who somebody who's on the prevailing side of

the boat with that particular Yes, I think I I understand. Someone who has a change of heart can bring it back and was a prevailing the prevail someone on the prevailing side who has a change of heart uh must bring it back up as a addition more knowledge more something to new light on the subject. Okay. Are you curious about why I asked this question? No, not really. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right. I spoke out of turn. I apologize. In your previous meeting, there was a proposal for an overnight truck idling park on uh Phillips Road. And the applicant asked if that was an approved usage in the C2 zone. Um this body or BZA agreed that such a facility, a storage parking kind of truck park facility was a you was a an allowable use in the C2 zone. And the ref and the reason that this prevailed was that someone said, "Well, pilot is right there at exit 4 as well, and they have a truck park in their C2, so I guess this applicant can have a usable a use this kind of use in a C2 as well." Um, I think that's a mistake. I think that's an error. The businesses are not comparable. There's a difference between a primary business that sells at

retail, fuel, convenience store, fast food, and has as an ancillary extra back parking lot for the convenience of their fuel customers and someone who invites trucks to come and park overnight. This is not comparable. They are not equivalent. They are very different. So my question for this body is how can we decide? How can we affect a change in this allowable use in C2 that we now have very good reason to agree is not an appropriate C2 usage. I've been enjoying the 66 pages of the zoning here and I find in the industrial district listing some permitted uses of um well refinement of raw materials truck terminals many warehouses warehousing indoor storage outdoor storage yards outdoor storage of motor vehicles etc. and I one and I'm wondering if this body would reconsider a truck parking overnight facility to be an allowable use in I1 and not in C2 and change the decision that they have made. Thank you, Miss You knew I had something to say, didn't you, Mr. Chairman? I figured the hand up gets away. Um, so, uh, I believe the decision was made by the board of zoning appeals, which is the five member board that

beats be right before the regional planning, which, uh, Mr. Bales and I do not sit on. Uh, in the past, I can speak to this because I've done it as a commissioner. The BZA has the authority to rule on that. the county commission has the authority to remove it from the zoning regs and that has happened in the past. So I I don't know that there's any recourse with the BZA but there is recourse with the legislative body of the county which would be the county commission. So that would be that would be the the place to go. I don't think you're directing us out on the county commission this I mean good luck uh as far as also if I can speak to a minute it was not just the pilot I think springs come up into the conversation a couple that are down there as well well there's loves it's a retail fuel fast food candy overnight parking the whole nine yards of a commercial establishment with retail sales and that's not what what was discussed. Just just a little curious. Thank you, Miss Al. Next item on the agenda, I'll if there's no other business, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Mr. Chair, move second.