City Council - Regular Meeting

Um, the whole city's celebrating, right? We didn't blow it in the fourth quarter. Uh, we'll begin with our opening ceremonies, invocation led by Councilman Horn, followed by the salute to the flag. Please rise.

Let us pray. Uh good and gracious heavenly father, we thank you for the beauty of this day. We thank you for salvation through your son Jesus. Um Lord and ask that you would provide us uh guidance and wisdom as members of this council and the city staff work towards serving the citizens of Jacksonville Beach. I would ask that you would continue to provide your peace and your comfort and your safety to all the members of our armed forces, our law enforcement officers, the members of our EMS community, and all those others serving in our communities uh here and around the world. All these things we pray in Jesus mighty name. Amen.

Amen. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. This meeting is called to order. Madam clerk, roll call. Council member Folding, here. Council member Horn, here. Council member Jansen, here. Council member Sutton, here. Council member Wagner here. Council member Wowers here. Mayor Hoffman here. Moving on to approval of minutes. Item A. I move we approve minutes from the special counsel briefing held on October 22nd, 2025.

October 21st. 21st, 2025. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? All in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Item B. I move we approve the minutes from the regular city council meeting held on November 3rd, 2025. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? All in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposition? Motion carries. Approval of the agenda. I move we approve the agenda. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? All in favor signify by saying I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Announcements.

Councilman Horn. That was kind of you. Oh, wow. Okay. The only one or um

Oh. Oh, well, thank you. Sorry. Um I have to go back to my notes here. Uh on the I want to say, oh my goodness, I forget the date now. It was November 8th. Uh I was lucky enough to go to the uh end of the year uh banquet for the volunteer life saving corps. This is our 113th season serving the citizens of Jacksonville Beach. Um just a little information about that organization this year. 29 active members, 9,021 hours uh for the city of Jacksonville Beach, five rescues, 17 assists where basically they assisted somebody and wasn't a full rescue, but um and then multiple first aid cases. I did the math at at a basic um I want to say it was like $15 an hour. that comes out to $140,000 uh that our um that the volunteer life saving corps of, you know, hours of service and money that we put back into the community or and uh put back into the city coffers have to pay for that service. Um I thank them for their service. I thank them for their continued efforts to serve this beach and I'm greatly appreciative for them. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Horn. Uh Miss Golding.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, wanted to mention that last Friday night I had the privilege to uh, attend the Fletcher High band performance that they did for friends and family before they went to the state competition. And I just want to say what a great band Fletcher has and they did a great job. And I'll let Mr. Jansen talk about how they did at state because he was there. Um, also want to mention that to especially to my colleagues that you probably got the information from the Florida League of Cities, but the House Select Committee on Property Taxes is going to meet this Thursday, um, November 20th at 9:00 a.m. to consider all eight of the property tax bills that have been filed. And, um, I reached out to the Floral League of Cities and they shared a memo with me that, uh, Speaker Perez had sent out. I don't know if you guys saw it, but the memo basically said he's open to all of all eight of the bills passing and let let the citizens decide which which things they want to approve or not. And then and then the legislature will figure out how to put all the pieces together or whatever the case may be uh after everything has been voted on. So, I think it's really important that we reach out to the members of the House Select Committee and let them know um how these bills would impact our community and um so just encourage you to do that and and citizens as well if you have any interest in it. And then also on the lighter side of things, just want to remind everybody that the opening day of Deck the Chairs is Wednesday, November 26th at 1:30. And that starts the great uh season about a month or so of fun things that will be happening in Laam Plaza and the Seaw

Pavilion. So I encourage you to come out as much and as often as you can. And then just want to congrat say congratulations to the Jags and all of the Jags fans who had an opportunity to celebrate this Sunday for a change and um wish everyone a very happy Thanksgiving since I won't see you probably until December. Thank you Miss Golding, Mr. Jansen.

Thank you Mrs. Golding for the intro. Um so you're pride of the beaches. their Fighting Fletcher Senators band. Um they played they placed first class in our division 2A which allowed them to go to the state competition where overall in the state of Florida they came in fourth which is very admirable when you consider how many high schools there are in the state of Florida. Uh so thank you and I'm partisan because my son's a trumpet player in the band too. So, so yeah, congratulations to the the Fletcher Senators, Mr. Wagner.

Um, I just wanted to share uh Saturday my wife and I had the opportunity to go to a charity event uh that was held at um held here at the beaches. local uh establishment lynches held it and uh it it's a an event that occurs every year and it's the battle of the bands against breast cancer or aka Bubba Palooa and and you know one of the things that was just so amazing being there and seeing every walk of life um all types of different people um very very broad spectrum socioeconomic because you know as it turns out disease doesn't discriminate right it affects us all and so many people have been touched by, you know, the the horrible disease of cancer. To see all those people out there supporting it with their time and their money and the volunteers there were just absolutely amazing. So, I just wanted to share that. And if you have a chance, if you like a little bit of music, maybe again, it's a great place to be.

I I think the Flector Centers could win that battle, too. Battle of the marching bands. Mr. Waters.

Thank you, Mayor. I really appreciate that. Um, I wanted to start out by congratulating the surfer girl folks. That was an amazing program. I had no idea in [clears throat] lacrosse, pardon me, girls flag football, etc., etc., cheering team and uh, the city to making it possible for them. And [clears throat] I especially wanted to thank beaches go green. I saw at least 10 groups of three or four, I think they were all high school kids on their hands and knees picking up cigarette butts, policing our downtown area. It was amazing and they were so happy to do it. So, I hope uh we can keep their continued partnership. It was a beautiful thing. And um I would also like to thank Councilman Horn for giving us the update on the VLSC and how much we value and appreciate their presence and hope that our partnership will continue to grow. And I was glad to see so many of my colleagues at the Veterans Day at Memorial Park. It was a beautiful service and remembering the people that matter the most, those who gave their lives for us that we might be here free. And lastly, uh, piggybacking on Councilman Golding, I am thankful for all of you for serving our our city, and it's been my pleasure in this first year to work with you. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Wowers. Any other comments? I just have a couple. I'd like to first Vice Mayor Jansen for covering for me at the last meeting. I was called down to jury duty and was there for 11 hours for potential selection for a murder trial. I was not selected. I'd probably still be down there. Um but thank you uh at the very last minute when I realized there was no way I was going to make it back to the beach in time for covering um the meeting. And um to piggy back off off Mr. Waters, congratulations to Alyssa Spencer who won the Supergirl Surf Pro this year. She also won the very first one that we had um five years ago here in Jacksonville Beach. So, we've got some real real talent coming out to our shores uh for that event and for a bunch of different sports and other comp competitions. Um I feel really bad. I don't know exactly what it was that they did, but I know our Fletcher swim team did really well and I don't know if it was state or something, but kudos to them. [laughter] I'll find out what it was and report at the next meeting. And then um finally, there's going to be a um food distribution hosted by Beam in partnership with the city of Jacksonville Beach and our police department is going to be helping them out on Saturday from 10 until the food runs out. They're going to have 500 boxes of food. So it'll be one per family. Um this is in addition to the Thanksgiving baskets that they give out every year. And I think they're going to be giving out 900 Thanksgiving baskets. So, this is in direct response to families who uh may have had their um SNAP benefits suspended for a time and need a little boost to help get back on their feet. That's going to be at the um operations and maintenance uh area, Beaches Energy area over there um on Shedder. So, if you know of a family in need, please feel free to share that information and you should start to see some publicity coming out from beam um by tomorrow. So, that would be um open to they'll they'll have the qualifications. I I don't think that

they'll be very stringent. Um, so that is it for announcements. Thank you everyone. And courtesy of the floor to visitors, we have quite a few cards. They are all attached to our final two agenda items. So we'll move on to consent agenda. I move to con to approve the consent agenda. Second. We have a motion and a second. Mr. Jensen, did you have that? Yes. I would like to pull item B off of the consent agenda. I've got some questions about it. if we can put it at the end. Okay. Uh we have a motion uh with the removal of item B. So consent agenda items A and C. All in favor signify by saying I.

I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Okay, we're moving on to um city manager new business. I will turn it over to the city attorney.

Thank you, mayor. The next two agenda items involve cyber security and critical infrastructure as those terms are defined under section 1190725 Florida statutes. Under these statutes, information related to critical infrastructure is confidential and exempt from the Florida public records laws. Additionally, any portion of a meeting that would reveal information made confidential and exempt under this statute is exempt from the Florida government and the sunshine law. As such, city council will go into a private session to discuss these two items. In accordance with Florida law, this private session will be recorded and transcribed. When and city council will step out of this room in just a moment. Everyone else is welcome to stay in your seats. When private discussions on these two items end, city council will reconvene the public meeting. Any motions to be made on these two agenda items will be made once the public meeting has resumed. Any public comment on these agenda items will be heard at that time. With that, mayor, I'll turn it back over to you. Go into recess or

not legally necessary.

Okay. City council uh will adjourn uh for a brief meeting upstairs and we will be back in just a few minutes. Please feel free to talk amongst yourselves. Um I do also want to say we have quite a few speaker cards for tonight's items. I'm going to be limiting um speak each speaker to two minutes. So, please um adjust your commentary accordingly. Yes, I can do that, Kathy. Thank you. Okay, we'll be right back. It's

And we're back. We'll resume our regular city council meeting. Throwing it to Mr. City Attorney. Thank you, mayor. I just want to confirm that the exempt portion of the public meeting was held in compliance with the provisions of section 119.0725, Florida statutes. The exempt portion of the meeting has now concluded. And at this point, the mayor will continue presiding over the public meeting. Thank you. Thank you. Can I have a motion on item A? I move we approve an agreement for critical infrastructure relating to cyber security. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Madam clerk, roll call. Council member Golding, yes. Council member Horn, yes. Council member Jansen, yes. Council member Sutton,

yes. Council member Wagner, yes. Council member Wowers, yes. Mayor Hoffman, yes. Item B. I move we approve an agreement for critical infrastructure services relating to cyber security. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Madam clerk, roll call. Council member Horn, yes. Council member Jansen, yes. Council member Sutton, yes. Council member Wagner, yes. Council member Wowers, yes. Council member Golding, yes. Mayor Hawkman,

yes. Motion carries. Thank you for your patience while we took care of those uh business items. Moving on to item C, we have a uh our annual legislative action days uh hosted by the Florida League of Cities that will be on January 26th through 28th in Tallahassee this year. Um so we always do an approval for any of the council members that would like to attend. If you would like to be included on this motion, please turn on your light. Okay, all lights are on. Mr. Jansen, if you'd like to make a motion. Have to remember all seven names.

I I move we authorize the following elected officials to attend the Florida League of Cities legislative action days on January 26 through 28th, 2026 in Tallahassee. Council member Golding, Council Member Jansen, Council Member Wagner, Mayor Hoffman, Council Member Wowers, Council Member Horn, he was waving his hand, and council member Sutton. Pardon me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Second. We have a motion on and a second. Um, comments. If your light is on because you turned it on to attend the event, you can turn it off now. Mr. Wowers, I just want to make clear to uh Miss Horn and the city that I will only be attending on the 27th and I will not be staying overnight. Thank you.

Thank you. And any other specific details in particular? If you need to cancel, um, please make sure you let uh the assistant to the city manager know as soon as humanly possible. Any other discussion or comments? Madam clerk, roll call. Council member Jansen, yes. Council member Sutton, yes. Council member Wagner, yes. Council member Waters, yes. Council member Golding, yes. Council member Horn, yes. Mayor Hawkman, yes. I'm sorry, I did not see you come up to the podium. Would you like to say anything? I didn't hear if you have any questions, but [laughter] I was just so in it. Okay. Thank you,

Miss Lauria. All right. Also, I noticed uh public works director Baron is in the room. I meant to say something during announcements. I don't want to jump the gun because we are not officially to the end of hword season slashadventures and weather season, but we're really close. So, I think we can breathe almost a complete sigh of relief at this point. If you don't know what I'm talking about, just watch watch the past meeting minutes. But, um or watch watch the past meetings. But uh moving on to item D. I think we have Nick from Beaches Energy come on up.

Thank you, Mayor, City Council. Um so I'm going through and requesting a soul source for three vendors for testing equipment for our substation equipment. Um I have some technical backup. I have Matt Cely here, uh, Scott Miller, and I have my daughter here, too, in case you guys have some real technical questions. She helped me out with the tablet there.

All right. So, as the substation electrical engineer for Beaches Energy Services, I'm requesting soul source approval to purchase essential test equipment from Omron, Doble. Uh, these manufacturer whose products are industry standards for all types of diagnostic work required for within our substations. Uh, Beach's energy services supplies power to more than 35,000 customers. Our electrical grid is divide up divided up into five service areas. Each is fed from substation. Uh, the core of every substation is a power transformer. These transformers each are multi-million dollar assets. They step transmission level voltage down to distribution voltage. Um, and their service lives are approximately 40 years and replacing them typically takes a three-year lead time regardless of the price tag. To protect these transformers, we have sectionalized grid a little bit further by protecting them with breakers. These breakers, they range in price from 27,000 to $230,000 a piece. Um, they have lead times of 6 months to three years. So again, long lead time, critical infrastructure equipment here. Um, and unlike the transformers, they are only expected to last 20 to 30 years. And it's very contingent on operational life. So because these assets are so critical and have life cycles measured in decades, proactive testing, condition monitoring and trending diagnostic data is essential to ensure safe operational and full lifespan of these assets. Um unfortunately the test equipment that we have uh available to us is either failed out of uh any further support from the manufacturer um and several other other situations where we just we can't actually use most of the test equipment we have currently. Um so this forces us to rely on outside vendors, rely on mail-in laboratory services which creates delays in restoring service, increases outage durations and requires additional field switching, loading the circuits more

heavily and increasing the likelihood to impact further outages and also places our employees in a less than safe operating environment. Obtaining the soul source approval from Omocron, do and do test equipment will allow the substation team to perform the required diagnostic testing inhouse. And this will enable us to restore the grid to normal operation safer and more quickly. Reduce outage durations and improve reliability of all the all the customers. Reduce operational risk to our personnel. and we can collect and trim conditional data to make the information informed maintenance and replacement decisions for these long lead time high value assets. So this is the reason I'd like to move forward with omeron do and do and approving them as sole source manufacturers for the test equipment that we set forth in the CIP 2025.

Thank you. Can I have a motion please? I move we authorize the purchase of diagnostic testing equipment from Omicron Electronics Corp. USA, Dialo Company Incorporated, and Doble Engineering Company at Soul Source Providers. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion or questions for Beaches Energy? Mr. Horn,

you were discussing some of the items that we're testing and their lifespan matter decades. The items that we're purchasing, the sets, the testing sets, I guess two-part question. Number one, are there any ongoing costs associated with these items that we're purchasing? You know, I mean, I I I don't I don't know enough about them. Are there things we're going to have to keep purchasing to make sure that they work correctly? And then the other the followup to that is going to be what is the expected lifespan of these items? Because I see we've got it out here till fiscal year 2029. So, is this you expect these items last four or five years? Do they last 10 years?

We're expecting around a 10 year lifespan on this equipment. We have um it depends on the exact piece of equipment, but there's anywhere from one to five years of calibration tests and reertification that needs to occur just to make sure we bench test these and and the results we're getting back are precise. And so then the and then the current costs that we expend each year to do the tests that we're would be replacing with these is roughly what do we spend? Um the the transformer tests uh themselves. I know we said there was some comment here about we send things out. We So

yeah. So so there's a a two a double-edged sword on on on the benefits. So actually just two benefits really. Um one we get the quicker outage duration. So, so if we go out there Saturday morning at 3:00 a.m. the guys, they go out, they test the piece of equipment, it has sun pressure alarm on transformer. They go out, test it, and they say, "Hey, we go right back in service. No harm, no foul." We know. We have a two-day outage time sending off an oil sample, testing the transformer, etc. And it can be for the oil sample, it's I want to say it's under $500 um per sample that we send off. We do it uh every six months. And then anytime we have a a sudden pressure alarm or anything like that on a transformer, some a critical alarm. And then when we test the transformers for like service life extensions, uh routine annual maintenance, whatever, um it's $15,000 roughly. Um depending on the vendor, some vendors are a little more in depth, some are a little more let me come in, test, and get out of here. Um, but we try to pick the most supportive vendors that'll give us actual results, credible analysis, but it's around $15,000 each time you fired this test equipment with a crew.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Wers. Thank you, Mayor. I was just curious, um, so was this going go through the RFP process? Did we bid this out or how how did was there more than one vendor?

So there there are multiple vendors that do similar test equipment. Um these pieces of test equipment are more of an industry standard. They're approved and they're readily used by our team and they're more familiar with it, trained on it and comparable price ranges on all all equipment. And the vendors that we have come in and test today. Like for instance, we're testing that at Pinman T2 today. Like the actually one of the guys supposed to be here is still out there in the field and they have the omeron test equipment for the CT analyzer sitting right there. Like they're they're doing these tests like with that equipment. That's what we're used to looking at. And back to the Saturday at 3:00 a.m. scenario when one of these guys that are on call like Scott, you're on call right now. And when he gets called out after hours, I want him looking at the same bottom right corner for a test result as and be familiar with the test equipment using it, not oh wait, we just got trained on this. This is pretty similar. I want none of that to happen on a multi-million dollar asset.

So that's just How long have we been partners with this fender? Our last headset, how long we had it?

Yeah. All right. Thank you very much. I do appreciate that. Mr. Jansen, just real quick. So, you have on on here the soul source providers. So, that indicates to me that there's no other companies out there that's providing that same equipment and that same that at that same level that we're looking for. in the in the purchasing manual, the standardization of equipment and familiarity and familiarity and training was one of the reasons of which we could go for sole source. Uh the fact that some of these or all three of these devices were over $25,000 is the reason we came to council. Yep. For the approval process.

Thank you. And thank you for including the reference to the purchasing manual in our packet so that we could have that sole source description readily available. Any other comments or questions from council? I should have included beaches energy also and parks and wreck for that matter and PD on the congratulations for being almost at the end of festive weather season. So sorry about I'm not gonna I'm still not going to say the h word, but I'm going to say festive weather. Superstitious, right? [laughter] Uh, see no other questions or comments from council. Madam clerk, roll call. Council member Sutton, yes. Council member Wagner, yes. Council member Wowers, yes. Council member Golding, yes. Council member Horn,

yes. Council member Jansen, yes. Mayor Hoffman, yes. Thank you. Thank you. Moving on to resolutions. Miss Taylor Mobs. M. Madame Mayor. Oops. Sorry. Just kidding. Yep. So, we're going to go back to the item that was pulled off of the consent agenda, item B, and that would be

Mr. Baron. Nick, I mean, uh, Matt was heading towards the podium. I was like, when is when is Matt in charge of waste waste services? Okay, since uh um sorry, Madame May uh council Dennis Baron, public works director, uh wasn't prepared to present since it was on the consent agenda. So, um we have in front of you, this will be back to a two-part um approval or will it still be a one-part approval as authorizing the mayor and city manager? We normally do that in two steps. Do we want that in two or one? It could be one. That's what the motion is phrased.

Okay. Thank you. So, what you have in front of you is a uh a a franchise contract agreement, a first amendment for the Waste Pro agreement. Um, Wastist Pro brought to us uh about a year and a half ago or so. um the suggestion that they wanted to request um being able to be able to be paid in the event that they are removing debris from the beaches in the event of a named storm or a named event. Um we've been worked forward to be able to then produce uh what is this first agreement. So the only two things it really did was identify what was um what was the disaster definition for stuff and then how we go about paying for that stuff as part of that. And then all of that is keyed off of the the declaration of emergency based on the mayor in in preference preface of a stormed event. Um so that's what you have in front of you is is that document. Um and then uh I'll ask any other questions as you need.

Thank you, Mr. Baron. Can we have a motion? I move we approve the first amendment to the franchise contract agreement with Race Pro Florida Incorporated to provide eligible disaster debris collection and removal disposal and authorize the mayor and city manager to execute the amendment. Second. We have a motion and a second. Mr. Jansen. Yeah. So, you answered one of my questions real quick. U I knew that we had an outlying issue with previous debris that was removed from from a previous storm and that there was an uh I guess an outlying bill that still that they were trying to collect on. Correct. So this addresses that.

It addresses it moving forward. Yes. So previously in the last um contract holders, we've had Waste Management, we've had ADS, we've had uh Republic. Um, anytime we've had a storm, it's always just been part of a contract that just says if we don't engage our disaster debris um, vendors that we have on call and then our local contractor does pick it up, they do so, you know, as as part of their contract costs overall for the um, ability of having the franchise agreement in Jacksonville Beach. And that's how it's been functioning up until now. Um several years ago we had uh uh Melton and Helen. Uh they were back to back. Melton uh generated a ton of debris. It was all on the street. We had to make a call as to we're going into another storm and we needed to get the first storm's debris off the street. So we put together a plan to do it uh with Waste Pro just like we had with anybody else. After the events, they said, "Hey, how we get paid for all this stuff?" off and that's when we kind of looked and said, "Well, we've never been build by anybody that's ever held our contract before, so we that question's not really ever it's always just been it's been included." Um, they brought some evidence and some information to me that said it does make sense. It's not included. It's extra work we're expecting them to do and be able to do. So, we should be able to provide them um some payment for that. So, um, taking the language that was pres given to me from our our Waste Pro folks, we put together this, which was, um, how you got to the percentages and how you got to the averages to be able to figure out how to how to pay and when that does kick in after the fact. Um, so that's what's incorporated in all that document. Just it's really just a mechanism to be able to pay them and authorize to pay them for additional storm debris.

Good. Good. So, I guess we're going to look at I maybe what my understanding of reading it was an annual average of what's being picked up tonnage wise and then anything that exceeds that based on the storm or something like that.

It's it's two years. We have data for every month of of um landscape waste and all collection that they've done for every single month for the entire time they've been here, which has now been over two years. So, we have over two years worth of data. So, we go back two years where there's not a named storm in that month. Sometimes that can be tricky during our stormed name month season around that one a little more. Um anyway, so during that time period obviously we uh um you don't know what you're going to have. So um you know so this just kind of gives us the mechanism in place that says hey when we know what's coming and then we'll we'll reach out to them as soon as we're all doing that prep. We're going to be doing all those conversations in advance so that they know what we're doing and we know what we're doing and we [clears throat] can go both directions. Yeah, nor easter sometimes make more damage than hurricane.

It does. And that, and that's where it becomes important. I mean, this does require some, you know, event or some need, but we, you know, this would at least be the mechanism that we'd have some way to figure out how to pay them moving forward. So, I I just want to say that they've been doing an amazing job as a waste management company. At least I hear from my neighbors and what I get to witness myself. And I just wanted to make sure that they're made full in the pet services that they, you know, that they came to us about. So that was my biggest concern. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jansen. Miss Golding,

Dennis, um so you mentioned that the prior waste providers it was it was just part of the contract. um going forward when we re when we put an RFP out or whatever for you know for the next contract

are [clears throat] we going to include that in the contract or are we going to leave that as a separate thing like it is now? So, since we're on year three of a five-year contract, um this would become part of that contract. Now, that contract also has um a potential of a five-year extension because of the cost of jumping in and out of garbage. Um you can't just snap your fingers and have somebody new collecting tomorrow. They just can't get the equipment put that into place that fast. So, uh, we have to do that with a longerterm provider because the cost of overhead of jumping into that business, uh, we can't do at a drop of a hat. So, knowing that we, this would be part of that renewal. And then, so when we get ready to go out again at the end of that five-year time frame, as long as they're continuing to meet your needs and requests and our needs and requests, then we'll do a renewal at that time. And then it would continue to five years. And then at that point, somebody will need to incorporate it into the next RFP as needed. If you add up all them numbers, I won't be that guy. [laughter]

But I guess is it is it safe to say that I I mean, is it is it better to include it in the contract and or is it better to h you know, have it paid separately? it it's muddy no matter where because just the same thing if you tell somebody I don't want to see a line item but I don't mind paying you for it you just put it somewhere else you really don't know where it belongs so you know if you're asking me is this the right thing I believe this is the right thing for the right reason because we have no mechanism to include it and when you think about it in an event of a big big event we're going to call somebody and spend lots of money to get them to come in and do that so isn't it rightfully so if they're doing extra work above and beyond and they're meeting our needs, shouldn't we also have a mechanism to be able to pay them for that service? In the past, it's not been. It's just kind of been rolled in. There's a lot that gets rolled in and in my opinion, that's a lot more fluff that can get stuffed into dollars and cents that we pass on that we don't know is there because it's all accumulated up. So, I think it accounts for it a little better knowing that that's where we're spending that dollars if we need to.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Wowers. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Director Baron, I just have uh one question or two. Um will this as if I think I I'm factually correct when I say our our waste bill times in the last few years, will this uh result in another increase for people, the residents? It it will not. Um of course, we never I mean, you're going to make me say it, aren't you? Here, we're here. We're down to within a couple of weeks and if we skate through the next couple of weeks with no activity, we skated through a very successful year where it didn't couldn't have cost anybody anything because there was nothing to collect. In a worst case scenario, yes, if we have 13 storms in a row and all 13 are all done by Waste Pro, yeah, there's going to be some dollars that's owed and it's going to have to come up with it somewhere. But in that event, we also can go back to FEMA. We can do some other things to try to seek some reimbursement depending on what's going on. But I mean, we have a we have a set reserve we hold to be able to be ready in the event of a hurricane or any other event that we need to drop a pile of money. We have that set back so that we can spend it and then we can recoup it back into our fund.

Well, then one last question. In the next two years of this contract, will the residents experience any more price increases for the service they provide? I believe we are just at CPI increase only on an annual correct yes I have verification from finance that is correct so it's only based on the CPI percentage adjustment each year which I think is around what is it in sanitation do you know three to four% a year or is it more than that I don't I don't know off hand we'd have to get back to percentages yeah it's it's a smaller in incremental increase um just to keep up with the cost of living every year. Thank you, Director Brown. I appreciate you. Yes, sir.

Mr. Horn, Sergeant, you mentioned um the the contract portion or some of those the numerical stuff that came to you, the the waste management company provided to you and then you said, "Okay, let's put this in here." I'm just going to ask a yes, no question. You're comfortable with the number in here as far as the cost? Uh yeah, I am. Um it's yeah, it's a it's a reasonable request. It's it's it's right where they're charging the other beaches. It's not like, you know, if you put it on one side of the road, it's going to be charged at a different rate. We're right in line with Neptune, which is who their other contract holder is local, so it's right where it belongs. Thank you.

That's a good thing we pulled that off the consent [laughter] agenda. Well done, Mr. Jansen. Any other questions or comments? Madam Clerk, roll call. Council member Wagner, yes. Council member Wowers, yes. Council member Golding, yes. Council member Horn, yes. Council member Jansen, yes. Council member Sutton, yes. Mayor Hoffman, yes. Motion carries. Thank you, Mr. Barrett. CRA manager Mobs, please.

Yes. Good evening, Taylor Mob, CRA coordinator. Uh, tonight you have an amended south end plan. The last time we amended this was in 2022. Um, I don't think I had even been here quite a full year yet. So that update was really to just come into compliance with where we needed to be staffed toy and to get some critical pieces into that plan that mirrored our CIP. Um so then the next big update after that was the downtown which you saw a few months ago and going forward we wanted to make both plans consistent and mirror each other. We wanted them to be easy to read and easy to follow and not have a hundred pages of just kind of filler information and really keep them concise and content heavy and very easy for staff, CRA board, the council, and the public to read. Um, the biggest changes in there are going to be the, like I said, the consistency with downtown. They almost look identical. So, I have to be very careful when I'm looking at the binders and make sure I pick up the right one. Um, and that we're adding public art in this. Uh, we've never had that before. We feel like it's done really, really well downtown. We've gotten a lot of great feedback. Uh we also have a lot of really talented local artists, so why not find more areas to feature them? Um and then a practice that's been in place since 2019, which is the TIFF, uh taking 50% of that revenue for the South End. Like I said, we've been doing that since 2019. This adds a section in the plan that just kind of calls that out specifically. Um something I pointed out to the CRA was just because it's listed in here does not make it official. uh we still would have to adopt a reduction by resolution or just continue doing it annually administratively and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. Can I have a motion, please? I'm sorry, Madam Clerk. Will you read the rest? Oh, wait. We won't have to do that anymore. Never mind. [laughter] Old habits die really hard. May I have a motion, please? It's okay. I did the same thing in substitution. Okay, good. I move we adopt resolution number 20201-2025 adopting an updated Southland community redevelopment plan. Second. We have a motion and a second. Um any comments or questions from council? Mr. Horn? Um the the the addition of art is wonderful. It's a great idea. Is that something that's going to have any impact on the $900,000 that's listed in here for a passive park?

Nope. Okay, that has been unfortunately fortunately depending on how you look at it budgeted for the last two fiscal years that is the passive park um on South Beach Parkway that's currently just that wooded lot. So those $900,000 have always been allocated for that project. Um this does not add any or change that. Okay, I'm going to reach back out to you next week on that. Thank you. Yep. That doesn't mean there can't be art. It just will not come out of that budget line item. Mr. Wowers. Thank you, mayor. I was just curious, what does Can you define public art a little bit? What does that mean?

Yeah. So, uh, just like with the downtown art program, we've got, um, the sculpture, we've got several murals. So, what we're looking at would just be the addition of, um, for example, on where the passive park is slated for right now. There's kind of going to be a big open section that doesn't really have much to it. Um, we're not trying to put in anything that's going to activate necessarily, but to maybe have a big nice Jack's Beach sculpture. Something like that could go there. Uh, we want to put a nice sculpture somewhere at the entryway to the Sunshine Park, somewhere near the playground. And then there's a couple of areas that have just kind of got some big blank walls that could have some really nice murals to kind of brighten up the space. Um, so that's what we'll be looking at with public art.

And how do you solicit artists for that these project?

There's a couple of ways. Um, initially when we first started at downtown a couple of years ago, we did issue a big national call. We got a ton of applicants. Um, the first couple of artists we pulled were from those big national calls under chapter, I believe it's chapter 287, Florida State statutes. Um, public art is one section that is exempt from standard procurement processes. So, you don't have to issue a call. You can solicit pieces. Um so what we've done with the last couple of murals is we've got a wonderful um pool of local candidates that have submitted their portfolios and their work and we've reached out to them um we've been able to commission pieces directly from local artists. So we'll kind of work with the art committee and the CRA and as well as council and when we do get ready to issue whatever that first piece may be um it may be as simple as we're able to commission a mural from a local artist. If it's a much larger sculpture and the direction is, hey, we want to expand this further or get additional applicants, then we can also issue a call to artists.

Thank you, Miss Bobs. Yep. I just want to compliment how visually appealing it is. It's easy for a lay person to read and understand and I am always going to compliment the alignment with the strategic priorities and objectives of our city. So, um, very nicely done there. And of course, anybody who knows me know knows that I am always a fan of adding public art into any plan that we do. Uh, any other questions or comments from council? Madam Clerk, roll call. Council member Wowers, yes. Council member Golding, yes. Council member Horn, yes. Council member Jansen, yes. Council member Sutton, yes. Council member Wagner, yes. Mayor Hoffman,

yes. Motion carries. All right, we're moving on to I think the reason many of us are still here. Um, we have two items. Resolutions B and C are both uh related to the Jacksonville Beach Golf Club. Um, so I think what we'll do is kind of have staff give us an update. Do you guys want to update together both both items at the same time? And then we'll do public comment on both items kind of together because I think they really go hand in golf glove. Come on up. [laughter] Good evening. Trevor Hughes, chief of parks development and maintenance, the J Beach Parks and Recreation Department. Uh, addressing the the first item, you know, the golf course is an enterprise fund expected to remain sustainable on its own. Uh, it's been our practice in recent years to revisit the uh the rates for the golf course every two years. Um our rates include um some modest adjustments. Uh we still remain um the least expense of course and and the the reasonable area. Um we've also had the addition of of one additional fee and that being a league fee. Um other than that all other fees um all other types of fees remain the same. Um just a small increase uh to reflect the changes in the market.

And you want me to go on to the next one? If you don't mind. I think it'll just be easier.

Okay, sounds good. So, the the changes in the bylaws were were stemmed from recent feedback that we've received over the last This is in my way. I'll clip it. It's been feedback that we've received over the past year or so. And and in this feedback, we we've received constantly that we're not able to make tea times. And we we chocked it up. The demand is high. The course is in good shape. we're we're viable and we continue to receive the feedback and and it came to our attention, hey look, the same groups have the same tea times every week. The same people are playing the golf course three and four times a week. Saturdays, the same groups every every single Saturday. Um and when we did a deep dive into it, we looked in it and and and the complaints were warranted. Um doing a review, there's only six tea times on Saturday morning available to the public. All other morning tea times are pre-booked and determined pre-existing to groups and other items. We also took a dive and looked into our weekdays and although we have a tremendous support uh from our groups in the weekday traffic um they do have guaranteed tea times every Monday, every Wednesday, the ladies groups have tea times every Tuesday, every Thursday and so after reviewing these times and seeing that as a public golf course it is not fair or equitable for every single week to be filled with the same people. So, we've identified two two areas um to help make tea times fair and equitable to the entire community. Um first of all is we've limited um we would like to limit league play to two days a week. Um I'm sorry, it's it's actually four days a week if you include Saturday and Sunday, but on the weekdays we're going to reduce it from four days to two days. All right. And then we're going to limit the number of spaces that are locked on the weekends. Um, so we are going to to

reduce those spaces. Um, but ultimately this is comes down to being fair and equitable and giving everybody the opportunity. The other change that we're going to make to make tea time reservations. Um, because because what happens is is people learn the system. You know, right now you can book a tea time three weeks out. Um, the different the different people have kind of strategized. Hey, you go after 7:23, you go after 7:30, you go after this time. And at 7:00, exactly 3 weeks out, the entire T-shoot is booked. And so to help with that instance, we're going to bring that window a little bit closer from 21 days to a 10day. And we're going to move that booking time from 700 p.m. to a 3:00 a.m. where someone's going to have to get up. And it's going to be a little more strategic. Um, on the uh weekends, we will be freeing up to the public 56. Well, on the weekends we will be freeing up 36 spaces on Saturdays. Um 32 on Thursdays and 56 on Monday. 124 opportunities for for people to um to be open open and fair and equable. Everyone have equal shots to to make tea times. Um the groups will still be allowed to make their tea times on Mondays and Thursdays. They'll just have to compete with with all the other general public. Um once these groups do once they procure their tea times um through the process we will allow um access to the golf genius software. Right now a lot of the groups they'll play their different games. They'll organize through the golf genius software. We'll still allow them to use that at that time. Um the other the other opportunity they could have is is is we will allow the pre-booking after 10:00 a.m. with a $10 pre-booking fee. And that frees up the prime tea times and gives everybody the opportunity to come out and and enjoy the the public

space. That's I'm ready for questions.

Thank you, Mr. Hughes. You may want to just stay close. So, we'll go ahead and go uh to public comment. Um, as I mentioned earlier, and just to preface this, I will say, um, some of us, a lot of you, and I have been on council long enough to remember when, uh, this golf course was not something people would come out fighting for. And as a council member, we were throwing, uh, good money after bad. So, making decisions to um to make sure that this is such a desirable place to play is refreshing and new to me. Um, so [laughter] in in terms of my tenure on council, so um it's a good problem to have. Um, I know you may not see it that way, but from where I sit um I definitely appreciate um the efforts of the staff um the efforts of the ground back to when we completely redid the course um and all of yours and your pride in the course and I think that's really important. Um we do have quite a few speaker cards. We also have um about a month ago had some courtesy of the floor probably about 25 or 30 minutes of comments regarding the golf course and I know that we've all gotten probably a couple dozen emails. So we have definitely heard from you on this subject but I am going to limit this um speakers tonight to two minutes each just because again if you should really be able you can make your points uh in two minutes to give us um those things to consider as we go forward with our um decision- making. Um, and the alternative I could limit limit the total amount of time, but I want to make sure everybody who has a card up here has the opportunity to speak a little, but also please don't feel obligated if what you uh were planning to say has already been said. You're welcome to say ditto. That being said, we do have a few cards of people who do not um wish to speak but uh have a position on the item. Um if you want to wave your hand, Julie Claremont

opposes uh the second part of the item which is course bylaws. Um Gibby piece she supports B and opposes C. So supports the uh rates and opposes the bylaw adjustments. Lois Litty Lois, thank you. um opposes uh the second item which is the core amending the force bylaws. Barbara Trailer, same opposes the uh item that amends the course bylaws. Jane Tisca Tuska, thank you Jane. Same opposes the um resolution that amends the bylaws. Diane Immer, same position opposes the uh resolution that amends the bylaws. James Bremer, thank you. James supports B, which is the rate adjustments, and opposes C, the amendment to the bylaws. Joan Bower, thank you. Joan, opposes uh the amendment to the bylaws. Patricia, I'm sorry, Patrick Norris opposes the golf course changes. Ed Gil, thank you, Ed, opposes the change to the bylaws. Roger Donalan opposes the change to the bylaws. And then Sean Kantics, Sean, thank you for being here. Um, and it doesn't specifically say, "Please let us keep our tea times at Jack Speech Goss Club." Thank you all for being here and submitting your speaker cards. And these are uh those that wish to address the council. Please come up to the microphone. Make sure the light is green. State your name and address. And then I'll start the clock and you'll have two minutes to address the council. Thomas Griffin. Thomas Griffin. I'm a resident of Pontedra Beach's energy customer.

Just state your address, please. 122 Glen Cove Place. Panra Beach. Panra Beach or St. John's County. Thank you.

All right. Um, the first time I played Jacksonville Beach was approximately 10 years ago. I paid less than $6 to walk nine holes. probably because I'm the beaches energy customer and a senior and um I paid too much. It was in that bad a shape. Um and I really am amazed that the course is as good as it is now. I mean, it's a beautiful course and I can understand why lots of people want to play it. I cannot understand why you would dismiss the most loyal customers you have in the hope that somebody else might take their place. It makes no sense to me. The leagues are the loyal customers of this course. And yes, people do complain about the course being hard to book, but the I I look at that as a success. In other words, what y'all have done with this course is amazing. It the definition of success is having more than you could sell. Having it tough to get courses uh tea times there and I don't think this idea of fairness, I don't know what that is. Everybody has an equal chance of booking now. It doesn't make any sense to me. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Griffin. Robert Davis, Robert Davis, [clears throat] 14560 San Pablo Drive North, Jacksonville. Tea times are approximately 7 minutes apart. So, in an hour, you're going to

get anywhere between 7 to 18 times. golf course is open for at least eight hours. So, you're looking at a minimum of 60 tea times a day. Today, when the putters played, I was in one of the last groups. And as I came across the seventh T, I saw that there was nobody on four, there was nobody on three, there was one group on two. There could have should have been seven groups, but there's only one. Why? Because of the three-w weekek computer. People will go out three weeks in advance and book times and three weeks later, two weeks later, they can't play that day. So, they just don't show up. So yesterday, today, as gorgeous as it was, there was nobody out there at 907, 914, 921, 928, 935, went up, lost that money. It's not the putter's fault. Putters didn't take away that money from you. And if you look at your number of tea times in a week, if you got 70 tea times a day, you got 490 a week, you only take away 12 from the putters to change the problem. Those 12 tea times is going to make it available for everybody to come on. And you also have to remember the putters. Come on, come all you can join us. We've had a number of people have recently joined. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Davis. Tracy Winfrey.

Hi, Tracy Winfrey. I uh currently live at uh 3146 Misty Creek in Jacksonville. I have lived at the beaches uh number of times. Uh I know you've got a tough situation. People complain. They come to you and complain and uh you want to do something to help them out. But if you look at it from a business point of view, um it is true that there are a number of months where you probably have some uh uh people who want to play that have a hard time getting the the uh tea times. I think part of that is probably the system. I've tried to go on it and even though I've seen open tea times when I get there, you you can't get them. So I think uh something needs to be done with the system. But my greatest point is this. We support that in the uh tough months, in the cold months. There have been a number of days where the temperature starts in the 40s and I've seen numerous of our tea times going out. And uh if you disband or really limit this group of uh of of golfers, they'll get used to going to other courses on certain days of the week. and then you'll get to the five six months a year that uh will be used to going to other courses and you won't get much play. I think you really need to look at the uh at the actual use how many people are actually there during the mornings. I was there about three weeks ago teed off and there was it was a beautiful day probably 15 degrees warmer than it was today and yet there was at least 20 minutes I went on out on the course but at least 20 minutes that nobody else teed off behind us. I don't know if if year round there's really this much demand. I'm also part of one of the Saturday groups and I do think that

maybe some more fairness on Saturday does make sense. But during the week, we are the ones that are really keeping the course maintained and also being out there in the cold months. Thank you, Mr. Winfrey. Holden Hackbart.

Uh my name is Holden Hackbarth and my address is 4515 Handover Park Drive uh in Jacksonville. Um thank you, Mayor Hopin, council members for hearing us again. Um, I'm the president of the of the seniors group, Jack Beast Golf Club Seniors. Um, you know, this group has been really loyal as as people have mentioned and we continue on and now the course was in great shape and in no short part due to Trevor. I mean, we love playing there and I'm sure there's a lot of complaints that happened this summer because the course was just just marvelous. Um, but I want to talk a little bit more about another item uh that's in in the uh new bylaws and that's the um just having one men's league on Wednesday. Now, we've I've talked with uh Tony Street about you know keeping the league separate and they said they you know they would do it but that could be turned away in an instant. I mean, I would like to see that in the bylaws or in some amendment where we actually have two separate separate leagues on Wednesday because we each have our own frames in the leagues. We um play our own games. They're two completely they operate completely differently. Um you know, we use golf genius extensively. I think they're going to start using it um next year along with the ladies. Um, but that's, you know, that's, um, you know, my big problem right now. I mean, I want to keep our league autonomous and be able to run it. Um, uh, and, um, you know, we also object to the $50 league fee. Um, and and that, you know, right now, that's my uh, you know, what the one item that I would like to see changed or amended. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Huckarth. Carol Fischer.

Hello. To the Honorable Christine Hoffman and members of the city council of Jacksonville Beach. To start with your name and address.

I am voicing my name and address. Uh Carol Fischer, 5469 River Trail Road, North Jacksonville, Florida. Okay. What I'm doing is voicing my concerns uh to the city on proposed changes to the e-league at Jack Speech Golf Course. I am requesting the council deny and oppose resolution 2204 2025 amending the golf course by law bylaws especially ones reorganizing the e-league. I've been in the E women's ELeague for 15 years and represent the voice of over 100 women in this league. We are mainly senior citizens who take up only 13% of the tea times per week. It's not the same women each week either. You know where they were saying the same people are signing up all the time. We have a hundred women and we only have 60some spots. So it changes which women get to play. Uh it changes. So this is a public golf course. The public should include these seniors. I wonder if it's about money more than providing a system that is more accessible and equitable to all. I'd like for you to vote to keep the women's league as is. Our e-league is a jewel in the community of Jacksonville Beach and it's been here for together for 35 years. We're volunteers at TPC first te and other activities in the community and we're like family. It is designed and coordinated in an organized manner to inspire seniors to stay

active, learn new skills and provide and provide camaraderie. We seniors look forward to that one day of golf with our close-knit league. As seniors, we want to stay active. We want the comm community to support us seniors and not disperse this group. and it's leader who works to coordinate our tea times and everything for us so that we're together in sets of four one after the other. She makes sure that we play on time that we're end on time and she provides the best experience and she has a coordinated signup system that has worked for 35 years to a wrap. Miss Fischer, your time is up. You just wrap it up.

Yes. Thank you. Okay. So, uh, through the women's league, we're inspired and driven to get back on the course when we have a lot of injuries and stuff. And one thing our coordinator does is when someone doesn't show up on the day of their tea time, she immediately calls on the phone and gets someone to take their place. So, that helps out the course too in that you don't have people that that are no shows in a league. So anyway, so I would like for you all to deny TW 2204. Thank you, Miss Fisher. And I'm talking for 100 strong. Thank you,

Muriel Bremer. Good evening. Thank you for hearing me. I am not a golfer. I'm a wife of golfer who is a senior citizen. And my name is Muriel Bremer and I live at 121910th Street, North Jacksonville Beach, Florida. And the reason for my my position is I look at this room and I see many many older gentlemen who have no one. They don't have a wife. The children maybe live out of town and they so look forward to getting together. They also are of the age that they pay a considerable amount of taxes to our community and help sustain our businesses. They support the restaurants and the businesses in our community. I was diagnosed a couple years ago with stage three breast cancer and it has been an extremely challenging journey for myself, my husband, our friends and family. It's not about me, but it is about my husband and the depression that I have seen him manage through my challenges and how joyful he is on Sunday night when he knows he's going to go and meet and play with his friends on Monday or Wednesday. It is very important to these gentlemen to have a reason to get up in the morning to be able to spend their money that they've earned and that they are commu com contributing to this community through their camaraderie and their friendships. And I know it isn't always about the money, but we do need to pay attention to these older gentlemen whom many don't have anything else to do. They don't

have a reason to get up in the morning and they become depressed and they become sedentary. But I thank you for your time. I just want you to know that as a non-golfer, I don't get it. But I do get the fact that these gentlemen look forward to the camaraderie. They look forward to their day together. And I have seen my husband every single Monday and Wednesday leave my home at 6:15 or 6:30 and he's out on that course. Rain, shine, freezing ass cold. He's out there and there are a lot of golfers that are whining because they can't get on the course, but you've heard many of them say that they have seen a long period of time where no one's been out there golfing. Please think about these older gentlemen who also are our very strong taxpaying community sponsors. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Miss Bremer, Kathy Hall.

Kathy Hall, 1639 6th Street South, Jacksonville Beach. In resol resolution 2204-2025 recognizes leagues that will be a Tuesday women's league, a Wednesday men's league, a Saturday mixer league, and a Sunday mixer league. The Tuesday league and the Thursday ELeague are two different beasts. We have different rules and we have different goals. Trevor has assured me they would accommodate ELeague on Tuesdays. I suspect now that means $10 league fee, which now puts our fee up to $48, not including tax, which now we're over $51. Okay, e-league. Um, this leaves me feeling like ELeague is a stepchild. It should make you feel like you are asked to vote on something that is not has not yet been defined. If Elite moves to Tuesday, will there be fewer complaints about no fee fee times? The number of complaints is an unknown number. Apparently, there is no data or log kept of the number of complaints nor the days nor the times that people complain about. I have heard no one come before this council saying they are in fa favor of these resolutions. ELeague is not asking for more time. We use one hour a week. What is the difference if that happens on Tuesday or Thursday? Unless that is not what is really intended for eagle when when we will are accommodated. I'm quite sure that the bylaws amendment regarding annual and beach passes are designed to deter people from let me call it rigging the reservation system. Okay. However, unless other stock gaps are in place, I don't think 7:00 a.m. to 3 or 7:00 p.m. to 3:00 a.m. is going to do it. I doubt that a 10-day advanced

reservation policy will substantially reduce or stop anyone or any group from reserving blocks of time in advance. I really have few issues with this amendment except for two things. Getting rid of elite and second, there's no data. There's no yard stick to measure if these changes will effectively reduce complaints, which is supposedly the reason for the bylaw's changes. This course is more than self-sufficient for that. There is data. Are the changes in these two resolutions before you motivated by money and control issues with little regard to the senior citizens who comprise 28% of Jacksonville Beach population and who for the past 30 years have provided a steady stream of income for this course. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Miss Hall. Bob Ko. uh 4456 Apple Leaf Drive East Jacksonville. I wasn't I'm not quite ready to speak. I was just reforming my thoughts. Um when Bruce Mohler came here five years ago when the course was rebuilt, he sat down with all the leagues, all the members, every concerned party and we went over all the tea times for all the groups, days of the week, everything was organized and he affirmed all the regulations from the past. So this goes back 40 years all these leagues and associations and that would have been a time for him to say we want to take the first tea time in the morning and he didn't ask for it then the rec department is not asking for it now they could have come to us and said let's have a meeting all of us and we'll take the first tea time every morning and give it to the general public but they don't they didn't ask they just want this resolution and it seems like it's controlled a lot of control. The league people do not call up and make tea times and sell them to other people. We don't call up make tea times, block tea times and and then don't show up. That that problem is not us. We book in golf genius and the course knows exactly how many people are coming and we pay. Our members always show up. We're like the ladies league. If someone can't make it, we have people waiting to play. Has anybody spoken in favor of this resolution? Any public person, any golfer? I'm just That's all I have to say. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ko. Tom Richardson.

Uh, thank you, Tom Richardson. 216 33rd Avenue South, Jacksonville Beach. I've been in the putters for about 10 10 years and we've seen things go from the painted desert we used to call it uh to what it is now and it's just super job everything. Uh just just first off it it seems a little bit odd that one person or a group can can make a change without a little more communication with with particular groups and and get their creativity than we've all heard tonight. Uh the second thing is there's some money here that we've actually calculated based on uh based on what people spend every week including tea balls and stuff by cutting the Monday tea times uh the golden putters alone uh uh one one that Monday for the whole year is is worth about approximately $78,000 and that's a consistent number that that comes in you know every Monday for the year 78,000. Um you're you are deleting guaranteed play and fees. Now we we we say guaranteed. Um people sign up, they say they're going to be there, but our guarantee is actually fulfilled because we show up. Um [clears throat] you'll be deleting fee management schedule for players and tea times. We we we manage our own own uh tea times. In other words, people if there's an opening, people call uh replace that person, that sort of thing. And uh we if the city was to do this, they would need to pay a person to do what both groups do for free. We call when players can't make the tea times due to sicknesses, doctor's appointments, nights, uh night prior, etc. All kinds of reasons people don't don't show up. Uh and then one of the larger ones in the morning, uh and I've seen this many times. I say, "Am I going to really go to the golf course and try to play today?" But the putter show up. Uh the first time we had a cold front and there'll be more. The seniors and the putters teed off regular times

but there wasn't anybody behind them waiting to play on on a ad hoc basis not part of a league. Uh there was limited uh play compared to the better weather days. So this is a big factor too on the pricing. We do generally agree with the pricing that the price of everything goes up and we have to keep reinvesting in all the chemicals and the machinery. And uh that's basically all we have to say here. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Richardson. Bill Egan.

Good evening. Bill Egan, 363 Cypress Creek Drive, Pontia Beach. Uh recommending disapproval of the proposed bylaws. I did send an email out earlier today outlining the key issues. So I'm not going to repeat them here. Excuse me, repeat them here. I would like to point out though that the as you heard the proposed bylaw changes are numerous and and they're very significant. And while I recommend denial, I'd be amendable postponing the vote pending further discussion, maybe separating out the different issues. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Egan. Charles Carbo.

Thank you, Mayor and Councilman, for uh the opportunity to speak to you. My name is Charlie Carbo. I'm a resident of Neptune Beach and a beaches energy customer. Uh I reside at 101 Margaret Street. I'm a member of the J Beach Senior Men's Golf League, one of the the men's golf leagues, and currently I'm the treasurer. Um, I want to speak to resolution 2204 about the bylaw changes. Um, I as well as my fellow golfers appreciate the council's concern about problems at Jack Beach Golf Course with the tea time availability and I I recognize that something has to change to resolve this. Change is best accomplished when both pros and cons are evaluated and these changes are communicated to the parties that are involved. Indeed, the changes that Trevor has put forward will will change some things. However, I believe these changes have not been properly uh evaluated for their formal impact, particularly any negative impact to the revenue stream that the golf course realizes. I also believe that changes are that that the changes that are proposed are far from optimal and I think that a better outcome can be accomplished by seeking input from the leagues. The proposed changes will destroy what has been a long and fruitful relationship between our league and the golf course and it undermines what has been an excellent activity for our senior men. So, I I urge you to vote no on the proposed bylaw changes and I suggest that you ask for a rework proposal that will provide a better outcome. Thank you for your attention.

Thank you, Mr. Carbo. Barb McHugh, did I get that?

Yes. Madam Mayor, members of the council, thank you. My name is Barbara McHugh. I live at uh 616 Bon Air Circle here in Jackson Beach. I am opposed primarily to both of these resolutions and I point to your audience here who have concerns about it. It's primarily seniors. Um that advanced booking fee is an additional fee above tea times and others is the way I understand it in the bylaws and I believe it probably would be a hardship on some of these seniors. Eleague has been mentioned. I'm a member of Elite for 10 years. It's a Lately recreational league of sorts. Um, we very seldom have cancellations. People have talked about that and I just want to give a little bit of data. Someone asked for that. I look back for the last several months that ELeague uses 11 tea times Thursday mornings and it starts at about 9:00. It actually has a small morning group and a very small afternoon group for a total of 70 minutes of tea times on one day. And if you consider most days we probably get 10 hours of tea times or 600 minutes if my math is correct. Um, I also would like to make suggestion that perhaps you do solicit a little more input from your audience, from your golfers. The course is wonderful. You do a great job. It's in terrific condition. I come from a long golfer family and some pros and all that sort of thing. I also would like to suggest that if you find it's hard to get tea times, a lot of the major courses around the country are now using some credit cards required to make

bookings. And if you don't show or you cancel in less than 48 hours, you pay a cancellation fee. More revenues. I understand right now our revenues are pretty good. We're self- sustaining and I think that uh perhaps we don't need to raise these costs too much, but can look for other alternative sources of revenue. And just a quick observation on Thursday mornings since this issue has come up and there's been discussion among the golfers about this. Uh several of us have looked around and another person mentioned this. There are empty holes before us and behind us because you know you wind up and down. So you get this view of holes. We also see a lot of twosomes. So you could get more golfers out with a little different kinds of management I believe and you could fill more tea times. Perhaps people aren't showing, perhaps they are booked. I don't know. But I think it's something worth looking into at this point. I also would suggest that

we could bring it bring it into a wrap. Okay. Suggest. Thank you. And try and consider the women equal to the men when you make your decisions. Thank you, Mrs. Thank you, Sue Buck.

Okay, I'm Sue Buck, 1334 Plantation Oaks Drive North and Jacksonville Beach. And I agree with just about everything that someone said. I really oppose the booking fee, but I do agree with getting the credit card and and charging the cancellation fee. I'm also not the league fee is too absorbent for my group is the uh afternoon group on Thursday afternoon we have four tea times and in the winter time we start at 3:00 well you're lucky to even get done and and they nobody wants those tea times I mean because they can't play 18 holes or they can't they are lucky to play nine holes and then as the summer goes In the summer we start at 5:00, so we get done around 7 o'clock. So it's not a soughtafter tea time and it's only four tea times. There's like and we've been a group, it's a a group of seniors were on limited income and I don't agree with the league fee. Um, and I don't agree with the booking fee, the league fee of $11, but I do agree with the increase in cost. But do keep in mind if you could keep the senior fee that helps out a lot because we do have good senior fee at the course and it's a wonderful course. Mary uh Lion started that group as a working women's club and I've been in it for 23 years. It's a great social club and we have so much fun. We we take trips together. We do lots of stuff together. It's not just golf and and if you watched us golf you would know that. So anyway, but that's basically I agree with what people have said and just as a little addition, I'd like to add that um we've been there through the tough times and we played out there when it was like a cow pasture and it's in wonderful

shape now and we try to keep it in good shape, but look at the fiscal thing. You're you're going to lose money if you lose the league. And we have ages 30 to 83 in our in our group. So, we've got a wide range of the ladies playing and we're all good friends and it's it's a great thing for the seniors. So, anyway, I hope that you'll keep it and let us play on we'd love to continue to play on Thursday afternoon. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Buck. Lloyd Archeald. [clears throat] Mayor, council members, my name is Lloyd. I live at 1277th Avenue North Jack's Beach, just down the road here. Um, I'm against changing all of this for the golfers. It's your idea. We have a pro that runs the tea times and all that stuff. All right, just leave it the way it is. We Everybody's happy doing fine. Yes, I realize there are people that don't get the two times that they want that particular day. We show up every day with 30 40 members our group and we pay and play and we have a wonderful time. We're all senior citizens. We got no other sport that we play anymore. I wish we could but we don't. And I think that we have a pro that has been running the pro shop there quite well for quite a

long time. A couple of years now anyway. But why do we have to change things now? For 40 years, this group has been playing together and having a wonderful time. There's no need for it. And I hope you people will hear that and vote our way on that. You you've got many people here that are all in favor of continuing on the way we have been playing. We pay our way. We respect the course. We take care of it. You do do a good job taking care of course. Stick with that. Don't get into the politics. [laughter]

It's way too late for that for Trevor. Sorry. Hey. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Archabald. Tom Tom Tom Kelper. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Tom Kyper. Sorry. Kyper.

Hi, my name is Tom Kyper. I live at 1705 Pitchbine Avenue, uh, St. John's County. So, what am I doing up here? Right. Well, I represent probably 80T times that play at Jack Beach. Okay. We call. We're a bunch of seniors. We call ahead of time. We pay a premium and we're courtesy enough. We fill in four full tea times, maybe five. If we don't make the fifth one, we're courteous enough to call and say we don't need it. Okay. So that to me is a suggestion that we'll pay you play here four times a year. So you really I don't think have a tea time problem. Okay, if people plan far enough ahead. So that's one of my issues. The second one is the prices. Uh from what I saw in the letter, you're talking about a 25% increase or a 33% increase. We're out of town. We get the 33% increase plus the premium for booking ahead of time. A lot of us are on fixed incomes. You're going to what you're going to end up doing is price yourself out of a golf course. To me, green for a golf course is a very bad thing. All right. I I understand this golf course made money, a lot of money last year and they put I have to say they put a lot of money back in it. It looks really nice. We enjoy playing it. But I think you need to think a little bit about the people that play there and what you're charging them. Um that's about all I have to say. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. [clears throat] Kyper. That's it for our speaker cards. So, we will go ahead and go to uh resolution B and start our council debate and vote on the first one. If I can have a motion. I move we adopt resolution number 2119-2025 amending rates for the Jacksonville Beach Golf Course. Second. We have a motion and a second. Uh discussion by councel. Mr. Horn. One of the things that we

one of the comments we heard here was a lot of people did not have as much of a problem with the rates as they did with the other issues which I think are in the next section on the bylaws. Um but there were some comments there. Can you speak out about what your thoughts are? I mean there there were some comments from people but the majority of them were in regards to the change in the bylaws. Can you comment on you know what what we're doing with this so that because obviously a lot of people were not in this discussion.

So the notes that I took first and foremost the men's league um initially when we did this we said that we were going to combine all leagues into one league. Um we took all the feedback and and we heard all the feedback since the briefing. I'm sorry. Are we But but specifically just for for rates. Are you going the rates for the men's league or Oh, for the rates for I was just going to talk to talk about rates.

Okay. Any rates specifically? What I heard was was most were okay with the rates. Some of the I think the little bit of confusion that I heard was the $10 pre-booking fee. Um the league the leagues will not have the $10 pre-booking fee. Uh the leagues will have a one time a year $50 league management fee um to to allow the the assistants and the golf pro to come in and work a little more intric intrically with them and um to help that side out. And then something that was brought up that somebody mentioned was do and I I do not require

do we not charge do we not require um a deposit for because somebody brought up you know hey is if that's true that's surprising to me. So currently our point of sale system does not allow for pre-booking fees. We are working through that. We may be back to you here in the near future. um to speak about pre-booking fees or deposits, but right now our current point of sale um does not allow for that type of system. Can you roughly give me a number as to how many cancellations we have weekly, monthly, yearly?

We we do 65,000 rounds a year. You would have to go all the way up to Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head to find a course that's close to that amount of rounds. Um do we have some no-shows and some cancellations? Sure. Um, but at that type of rounds, not anything like like we we're happy that they don't show up. 65,000 rounds by far exceeds anything that a golf course should be able to handle. Uh, we would much rather have about 50,000 rounds a year. Um, to to have a more sustainable product, to have a more sustainable that just does not get worn out. Um, the next closest golf course in the area as far as rounds is probably St. John's Golf and Country Club at like 52 to 54,000 rounds a year. Um, from my standpoint, we do not have a no-show issue. I'm not saying there are zero no-shows, but it is not an issue. Our rounds are through the roof.

Okay? And and the numbers in regards to the the pricing that we've established here because I'm looking at the comparisons. So, we're um a touch above St. John's equal Sebastian a little above uh Windsor Park and Hidden Hills and I'm going to Queens Harbor. We're below uh just kind of looking at some of those rates here. So I think u and that's for the weekdays. On the weekends we're actually below everybody um still even with a a modest increase. So I think um I mean the goal here just to get us you know one of the things that came up earlier and I'll just comment on it. Somebody mentioned the cost of our waste management prices have gone up and what we realized we hadn't raised those in almost two decades and those went up and now these are I don't know when the last time we raised the fees for the course was. Can you tell that?

So we do we we do a a fee evaluation every two years. The last time we raised the rates was January two years ago. Okay. Okay. Um I think that's all I have in regards to the fees. Thank you, Mr. Wowers. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Uh Chief Hughes, it's always good to see you. Thank you for your time and expertise. So, let me just ask you this uh to try to get right to the point. for a Monday through Thursday booking for uh the members of these four groups. What sort of increase will they see under this proposal as opposed to what they pay now? So the majority

including their fees and all that. All right. So there will be a um a $50 per year fee and then the um the senior rate goes up $5.50. So, the $50 per year fee and a $5.50 um increase per round. Is that true on Monday through Thursday as well as on the weekends?

The weekend is a different a different fee structure. There is no senior rate on the weekends, but Monday through Thursday, um we do offer the senior rate, which which these groups um 99% of all the the people that play Monday through Thursday and the leagues are seniors. And so that that's the rate that will apply to these groups. And of the four groups, how many of the groups play on the weekend rates?

So the weekends, there are multiple groups there. There's four to five groups that play Saturdays, two to three groups that play on Sundays, and they play they pay the rate based on whether they're a Beach Pass member um or if they're not a Beach Pass member. And they'll they'll pay the rate based on there. There's basically there's the there's the the beach pass rate and then there's the public rate on the weekends and those those group fees will pay whatever rate that whether they bought the discount card or not.

Oh, please forgive me. Let let me try again. Um I I thought we were just talking about four distinct groups, not more than that. But for the people in the four groups on a weekend, how much more would they be paying under the proposal? So, in the groups that play on the weekends, uh the beach pass rate, which a lot of these people that play on the weekends will go up, uh $4 for the beach pass rate. And then if they are not uh a a Beach Pass member, uh I have an edit issue. My Let's see.

582 six feet. A net increase of how much then? Please forgive me. A $2 a $2 increase is what I have or a a $4 increase is what I have for the weekend. Okay. I got two different sheets that were somehow giving me two different numbers. Well, since you me uh mentioned senior rates, I think this might be an appropriate question. Everyone could just keep down. Uh we were very courteous up here when all

So, they're right. It's $72. I was looking at we we do have a dynamic pricing schedule and so I was looking at the floor rate went up um the floor rate actually stayed the same and the $5 722 if you do not have the beach pass. So it went up $5. My apologies. Okay. So they're paying $67 now and the new rate is 72 if they do not have the discard. Yes. Discount card.

Okay. And um since you mentioned it, I think it might be appropriate for the next item, but because I noticed that we have the junior rate for the weekdays and for the weekends, but the senior rate only for Monday through Thursday, and I am curious as to why we don't extend that courtesy to the most vulnerable in our group, in our community to senior citizens. the the senior rate is is something that's extended to the seniors Monday through Thursday. Um many courses don't have a senior rate and many courses that have it only offer it one day a week. And so this was this was a policy that was established when we reopened that was that it was inter industry standard and we actually exceeded it by offering it more than the than the competition. I appreciate that courtesy you've extended to the community, but

the student rate is something that, you know, most students are in school and in the afternoons um some of them will come out and and play as students and and we support um youth golf. Well, um I personally would like to see it extended to senior citizens. Thank you, Mr. Jansen. So, just quick question, couple quick questions. Uh, do we track the no-shows? We don't currently track the no-shows. Okay. We we we could go through and physically count as you check people in in the spreadsheet. We could go back and physically count each day.

Right. I understood what you said earlier too about sometimes that's that's kind of a gift when when the course is I guess in the suffering like last winter when we had that super hard freeze or some issues with the course and and instead of limiting play you could uh you know take advantage of the no-shows or even closing it down for one day a week. Um and so then you also made a comment about the amount of rounds that go through the course as compared to Jack's Golf and Country Club. That's not a public course, is it?

No, I the the course that I compared it to was St. John's Golf and Country Club. And if I'm most sorry, so St. John's Golf and Country Club is a they call it semi-private, which is a way to say that you're public course that offers a membership. The general public can play those that course, right? So I think if you were comparing apples to apples, we'd have to kind of make it a public course, a wide out public course. And so looking at that, I What do we have? Windsor Park and I don't know of many others unless you're really traveling a good distance. Yeah. And th those courses are around that 50,000 rounds a year. And and are they putting that same amount of rounds through? They're they're not even close to 65,000 rounds.

Okay. Um and then of course it was brought up as far as rates are concerned. I think there was some agreement amongst uh amongst their constituents that with rising costs there's there's maintenance that has to be done on the course on on the carts and you know as far as landing you know land use is concerned parking lot restriping up the all the things. So so I kind of agree with that. Thank you.

Are you finished Mr. Jensen? Um, I I'm glad it came up today. Again, I I agree that I think there should be some sort of accountability to a a canceled booking. I don't we can't you can't even make a restaurant reservation anymore without putting a credit card down. And I understand that that maybe that hole is a a gift um just for less play. But that's also somebody that couldn't book that tea time that may have wanted to book that tea time. So, I'd rather see us do other ways to kind of move that needle of play, which we've done. We've lengthened the tea times um and shortened play and done other things like that. So, I I would rather see us do that and hold people accountable that they can't just

just gives me an idea that people can kind of take advantage of Jack's speech

because they know that they can just not show up and have no accountability. So, I'd like to see that turned around in all of this. Um I uh I I am glad that we do this kind of competitive analysis. Um we have a lot of golf clubs in our region. Um a lot of a lot of good, some not so good. And the fact that we're in that upper level, I think is um again a new experience for me. So um so I do support looking at this and making sure that we continue to be uh competitive offering the senior rates when we do. Um, but I do think that we really need to look hard at making sure there's some accountability there. Uh, any other questions or comments from council on ordinance B or ordinance, sorry, resolution I can't read it because I don't have my glasses on. That's where I am in life. 2199-2025. See none. Madam clerk, roll call.

Council member Golding. Yes. Council member Horn. Yes. Council member Jansen. Yes. Council member Sutton. Yes. Council member Wagner. Yes. Council member Wilders. No. Mayor Hoffman. Yes. Okay. Moving on for a motion on 2024-2025. I move we adopt resolution number 20 2204-2025 amending the golf course bylaws. Second. We have a motion and a second. Uh discussion from council. Mr. Wagner.

So I want to start by thanking all of you for coming. It's very important exercising your right. We really do appreciate it. Um I I fear that this is going to be another one of those great exercises where nobody walks away happy. So hopefully we're less unhappy. How about that? Um there I do want to I want to dig into a couple of the points that were made and for us to talk through those to see if to see if we're kind of if we fix the problems we're trying to fix because we do have time to do that if we need to. Right. So, um, and and I'll just share with with everybody. I have received numerous phone calls and emails from people who are residents of Jags Beach, parents who are trying to get young kids out onto the course on a Saturday because they work all day and the kids are in school and they can't get on the course on a Saturday. And I believe one of the gentlemen that spoke even even acknowledged that he could see that being something that plays out here in Jack Beach. and running 65,000 rounds a year through that course. That's not the data does prove that it's going to probably be difficult on the data. Most people can get out there that it's hardest to get out there. So, so my fear though is in now kind of processing through a lot of the feedback and our changes that we've actually moved clubs to Saturday. And so I don't I don't know if we have created excess capacity on Saturday for the the young families that are trying to get kids interested in golf because that's the other, you know, we have lots of different groups that we need to take care of. That's the one we're not taking care of and at least based on the feedback I continue to get. So do we think that in the current structure of C where we eliminate some of the league plays during the week but we create more league play on S and I know there's four

or five adult leagues and I know like you know you league and all those other guys' leagues are on on either late Friday or Saturday but I'm just trying to what's your opinion on that? We we have not added any league play to Saturday. That league play already existed. Okay. and we we've reduced it. Um we currently now only offer six tea times available to the public. As of today, there's only six tea times available from 7:30 until 9:30.

We are going to reduce the size of the Saturday guaranteed times, the Saturday league to one side. The weekends work a little bit different. Monday through Friday, we tee off of number number one. Okay? And then on the weekends, we tee off of one and 10. And we get the maximum amount of prime tea times in the morning. Currently with all the one and 10. There's there's 14 on the back nine and there's eight on the front nine that are all league play only leaving six available to the public. We are going to move all the league play to one side. We are actually reducing it. So we are opening up um so where there's 14 times available to the general public now on Saturday mornings and Sunday mornings and 14 times available to the league play that was already existing. We are reducing the size of Saturday not adding to

Okay, thank you. I I really did kind of read that differently than that. So I really do appreciate that because that really is one of the I think one of the feedback sources that we were trying to address through this and Yes, sir. So, Mr. Wowers,

thank you, Mayor. Pardon me. Chief Hughes, yeah, thank you uh for all the work you've done. Um, let me just try to get a few things straight because like some of the voices we've heard today and this seems to be happening rather quickly with perhaps not all the notice that some would prefer. I if you can give me your best guess and I'm sorry I didn't have a chance to ask you about this or I didn't take advantage of the opportunities I had because as I've thought about this and heard from more people things are kind of crystallizing in my mind. So for the four main groups as we stand under our current system per week, how many um tea times meaning a group of four do they have in a week? Does that make sense? So So currently the the men's the men's groups that play on one Monday and Wednesday occupy uh about 56 times on Monday and Wednesday. The ladies groups on Tuesdays and Thursday are are approximately um there is two different groups. There's a group of ladies that play on Tuesday, one on Thursday. One of them is about 36. The other one's um slightly smaller 20.

Okay. And just to be clear, so when you say 56 groups, times, that's not the tea times, it's the the spaces. It's the amount of people. Oh, so that's divided by four. It's the amount of people. Yes. Okay. So that'd be so there's 14 tea times that are used on Mondays and Wednesdays and Tuesdays and Thursdays. There is um there's eight on Tuesdays and there's five on Thursdays.

Okay. Thank you. That's that's what I was seeking clarification on because I just it's a lot to take in and try to distill and break down and understand. So under the proposal um the the the 14T times the 18 times and the 14 times what would the new number roughly be? So the new number on those days, so so really what'll happen right now is their Wednesdays, say the men, their Wednesdays will look very much exactly like their Wednesdays do now. All right. The the the change will be Tuesdays is the ladies instead of one group playing on Tuesday and one group on Thursday, both groups will now play on Tuesday. Uh we have we have created the space where both groups can play. They can play in their groups. Um, and we had we had the room and we created the space to accommodate both groups on Tuesday for the ladies and both groups on Wednesday for the men.

What we have what we have done is basically opened Monday for for general public to book tea times. Their Wednesdays will look very much like the same. And the reality is is say for the men on Mondays, they still have the opportunity to create tea times. They can still come on and make their tea times. It's just not guaranteed. They just have to compete with everybody else. And so, let's just say if there's a group of 32 of them and 28 of them happen to get tea times. They can still play their league play. We'll still partner with them. We will still make access to the tournament software and they'll allow to play their games. They'll just have to compete with all the general public for Monday for those times. But those times are still available. They're not taken from them. They're just not guaranteed.

Guys, again, we all quietly listen to you during your presentations, and I'm going to ask you do the same respect to Mr. Hughes and to this council. Thank you. So, let me just u reaffirm my understanding of the proposal. The groups will be allowed to keep their distinct groups and play amongst the people they're used to playing with on the weekdays. Absolutely. Okay. On the weekdays it again. Please guys, please let us just go through our Q&A.

Now, is is this incorporated in in writing anywhere or are we just operating in good faith? So in in the bylaws it says that the um that they the groups will be consolidated and the pro shop will run the groups and and we have spoken you know we we came to you in the briefing we we have we had the four groups during the week and then there's like eight or nine groups on Saturdays and to make to make each individual blanket rule for every single group was difficult. So we kind of made a blanket. This is our leaks but our league is large enough and we've made the space big enough to accommodate where they could. We we did listen uh we heard their feedback a after after all this came out and we are allowed on during the week we have enough space where we can accommodate the two groups.

That's good news I think. And so is it please forgive me for not having my facts right. Is it Mr. Street the person that will be kind of facilitator? Yes sir. Okay. Thank you Chief Hughes. Sorry, I didn't see who had their light on, but we'll go to Mr. Jansen.

Yes. So, um I'm going to kind of echo what my colleague, Councilman Wagner said. Uh first off, I do appreciate everybody coming out and and giving us your feedback. Uh it means a lot to me. Um I also have to balance in my mind, I think similar to what Mr. Wagner was maybe thinking, I'd want to put thoughts in his mind, is if I were to kind of categorize this, we got to balance this between being a public course and a quasi private course. Um, it's meant to be open for the public. And when we only have six rounds available for our public on a weekend, it then kind of lends itself to what are we running here? Are we running a semi-private course or are we running a public course? So, I want to be careful with that as when we go forward making decisions. Um, that was probably the one underlying thought that I have that really kind of resonates with with me,

Mr. Wagner. So, um, so trying to trying to kind of make sure that I'm following along and understanding are we going to get the benefit of what we intended out of the rules after hearing more more about this. And so, um, so the it sounds to me like the one biggest bone of contention is the the league the league structure, the league management, and the league fees. And um I think when we were getting briefed uh one of the things that was shared and I'm just validating this to make sure that I have an appropriate uh understanding of it um because I can guarantee you I am the worst golfer in this room. I I can guarantee that there's event anyone. But that being said, the um so the the the league what you what was shared with us is that the the concept of having privately run leagues by private people administered in somebody else's golf course is is a practice that is a that is less prevalent now than it used to be if if not in many cases not allowed. Is that is that the correct understanding? Typically the the golf club itself will operate the league. The golf club would say here's our men's league. Um I I believe our situation here is unique where we allow the leagues to run theirelves and incorporate theirelves and come in and it's something that's a practice that's gone on in the past. Um and that's why we said we wanted to bring this back um to a this is now the Jack's Beach Men's League. But after hearing, you know, I believe that that we are responsive government and we are to listen to the feedback of the people and and we heard that, okay, these people don't want to play together. They want to keep their same groups and [clears throat] we we've honored that. Um, and we're still going to we're going to have a little more oversight and that's where the league feed comes in. And that's where they

will have they will have an elite li leaison with their league work directly with the golf crow and to make sure that everything is above board and fair and people are getting in and out of the leagues fair and equitable. You know, if if if I wanted to start my own league, if I didn't work for the city and I wanted to start my own league, I I couldn't. And that was, you know, that was going to be the next next set of questions or points. So, I just want to make sure that that folks do appreciate that in this process, we went from we're combining all these to now they're allowed to stay separate and distinct.

Is that Yes. Okay. that way.

Well, we're make we make the rules like we get to vote on the rules. So, we're clarifying the rules and when you guys So, allow us to go through the process, please. That's I mean, I know it's painful to you guys because it's so important and I appreciate that and I'm just trying to help us get through this in little sound bites so that we can all understand exactly where we're going and that if we get to a place where more people dislike it and like it, we're not going to go forward. And if you know and and if we get to a place where we find something in the middle, you know, that's what the council is here to do and to help guide us through that. So that's really what I'm trying to do. So sorry that it's so painful.

Mr. Horn, I guess. So just looking at numerically, you said I was going back to the there was 56 on Monday, 32 36 Tuesdays, Thursdays, 36 on Saturday. So it was 14 tea times on Mondays. Eight tea times, six tea times out of so 14 ta times on how many to how many total tea times in a day? I don't know. I'd have to I'd have to do the math. They go every nine minutes. They start at 7:28. So I'd have to do the math. All right, everybody take your shoes off. We're I don't have That's your math right there.

I should have been out. We, you know, this time of year, this time of year we, you know, yesterday I think we did 200 rounds of golf. you know, that was 50T times. Okay. You know, depends on the day length. I guess one of the other things that I'm that I'm I'm kind of inferring from the discussions and the comments that we're getting is I guess we're were were meetings held with the leagues with these groups. Did you and your staff meet with them?

So, before the briefing, no. And so, what happened was we we knew that this was a sensit sensitive subject. Um we we came and we wanted to get get you guys consent or say hey do you guys agree or are we going in the right direction. Um we actually called a meeting internally uh with the golf pro uh the director and myself the next day and that's the same day the beaches leader came out and it was all on the news and so they they took the lid off for us and then since then between the golf pro and have had many conversations um with the different groups. I mean it it seems to me that there's there it sounds like there's some I mean obviously yes I don't want to see it where there's five or six tea times on the weekend for the other citizens. Um I do I do agree that we should not be running a semi-private course for you know this is a public course for the citizens uh of Jacksonville Beach and the surrounding communities just like uh all the other things that we you know we have here just like the parks are for the citizens of Jacksonville Beach and anybody else from the surrounding communities that wants to come and enjoy them. um and we try and maintain those as well as we can. I think there's some um it sounds to me like there's still some working out to do maybe. It doesn't seem I I mean I think that even some of the people that came up said, "Yeah, you know, the weekend's probably not a good thing." Um the numbers I think there's still got to be a better way for us to get where we're going with this and I'm not seeing it here. I that's that that's just my observation for this one. And again, I mean, the rates are the rates. I think we're there. I'm just going to That's my

Mr. Sutton. No applause necessary. Thank you, Mr. Sutton.

Mayor, um, so, you know, we've talked about a bunch of stuff here. Um, and I appreciate all of the work that Trevor, you've put into this. Um, I'm certainly in favor of um, everybody having an opportunity to play Jack's Beach. I grew up playing the course and my dad was in one of the one of the leagues for for many years and I've seen that course in all sorts of shape and it's it's awesome today. Um, but I'm not satisfied with um, where we're at right now. I think there are too many questions that remain and I either would like to make amendment to the motion or offer up a separate motion whichever is appropriate. Um David uh that we defer this and and have a little more work on it from Trevor um and and Jason um until the second week in January or second meeting in January.

If that's a motion, I'll second. Not a motion yet. Hold on everybody. Okay. So, you can just have a uh a motion to continue. Motion to continue until the second meeting in January. You don't have to. Okay. I would suggest maybe we don't tie it to a date. So, motion to continue. Second. We This supersedes that original motion. Okay. We have Can we discuss have discussion on this? Yeah.

Yeah. I'm asking the attorney. Thanks, [laughter] John. Uh, and I agree. I think that there's an you guys put a lot of work into it. You've brought it to a briefing. You've done the things right to address what we have brought to you as concerns. And I do agree. And I think you guys all need to hear us that we are hearing from people. They may not be calling you on your phones, but they are calling us. Um, and they are there are people that need to we this course should be accessible to our community and that's our goal is to make sure it's accessible. I also but I also don't think anyone up here wants to throw the baby out with the bathwater and throw a a anything good that we have out there. Um, especially those of us that have painful memories of this course. So there is there is a happy medium or maybe just slightly unhappy as Mr. Wagner pointed out the how you know you've reached a compromise is everybody's a little bit unhappy um but hopefully not angry. So I'm hearing confusion. I'm hearing that people aren't really understanding what the changes are and that maybe things aren't necessarily spelled out the way that they should be. Um this is this is golf. This is a golf course in Jacksonville Beach. We don't have to. Is there anything in this bylaws that is going to disrupt business between now and the next time we So there's nothing urgent here. There's no reason not to take a a pause and make sure we have it. And and please know you're not going to love every bit of it, but we want everyone to understand and at least be on the same page with why and how we're going to move forward with this. So any other comments on the motion to continue? Is that what we said? Is there any other comments on the motion to continue? Madam Mr. Waters,

I would like to thank my honorable colleagues for making Mr. Councilman Sutton for making a motion and for those to second it. This like our our distinguished mayor said, this is nothing urgent that requires action today. I'd like to see us get it right and do the best we can. Thank you. Any other comments on the motion to continue? Madam Clerk, roll call. Council member Horn. Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. How many times did you vote? [laughter] Council member Jansen. Yes. Council member Sutton. Yes. Council member Wagner. Yes. Council member Wowers. Yes. Council member Golding. Yes. Mayor Hoffman.

Yes. So, this uh motion will be continued. I I think you guys the the goal would be to make sure that you all stay very well aware of of where this is going when this is coming back up in front of us. Um so we that is the end of our regular business. So can I have a motion to adjurnn? I move to adjourn. Second. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Trouble safe.