Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Uh, calling August 5th plan commission meeting to order. Everybody stand. Recite the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thanks. Uh, Andre, roll call. You put it right in front of me. Doesn't mean I can read it. All right, let's do a roll call. Anthony Bina here. Robert Tantillo here. Richard Mshaw here. Diane Gormley Barnes here. And Greg Scovich here. 5. That's five people. So we have a quorum.

All right. Thanks uh Andreas for pushing out the May and June meeting minutes in advance of the meeting. I had time to review them today. I'm not sure if anybody if everybody else did or we need a minute to take a look if uh and once we think we're good, I'll entertain a motion to approve May and then a second motion to approve June to the extent there's no comments. I'll move to approve the May minutes.

I'll second. Note Diane motion to approve the May meeting minutes. Seconded by Mr. Mitchaw. All in favor of approving the May meeting minutes as distributed by Andres say I. I. I. I. All opposed. Motion carries for the approval of the May meeting minutes. For the record, note that Cat Plotkkey is present at 703.

At 70:03. Um, and now I'll entertain a motion for approval of the June meeting minutes after you've reviewed them. Motion

motion by Mr. Commissioner Balina. I'll second

seconded by Commissioner Gormley Barnes. All in favor of approving the June 2025 meeting minutes in the form as presented say I. I. I. All opposed. Motion carries. June 2025 meeting 80 minutes as shared and prepared by Andres are approved. So Andre, we've got a full agenda tonight. We're going to start with a public hearing and then we're going to dive into some new business and kicking off a discussion about fence regulations. Uh and then we'll scratch on some old business and you'll give us an update on safe build and then uh anything else the plan commissioners have on their plate and then uh we'll close with board report, building report and to the extent necessary and the extent we haven't covered any public comments we'll open it up for public. So we have a public hearing I need to entertain a motion. You want to do a staff presentation first or do you want to open up for a public hearing?

We should do a motion and a second to start the discussion then public hearing. Then we'll have to do a motion and second to open the public hearing which can be confirmed by just a voice vote and then at the end same thing. Excellent. I I would like to entertain at this time a motion to open the public hearing on petition 2025-04, which is a variation to allow the conversion of enclosed garage space into a family room at property located at 147 Cascade Drive. I motion. Thank you, Mr. Bolina. I'll second. Thank you, Miss Gormley Barnes. All in favor of opening the public hearing say I.

I. All opposed. Excellent. Um I think it would be make sense for staff to provide us with an overview of what we're uh hearing tonight and then uh any uh applicants that are present. We'd look uh to swear you in uh for those who will be participating in any form of presentation or question and answer.

Okay. Thank you very much. So the petition before you um is uh the the applicants the petitioners are George and Deborah Deminiac located at 147 Cascade Drive. They are through their legal counsel uh Cindy O'Keefe. They provided an application for a request for a variation for reasonable accommodation as allowed under the Fair Housing Act to convert their existing enclosed garage into a family room to allow Mr. Deminiac to access his the space and his home, which he needs to do due to his um disability as provided. So, a brief background on the location. 147 Cascade is located in the Acacia PUB. It is zoned R3. It is also one of the I think it's like permit number 83 in the village. So, it's one of the new it's one of the oldest permits in the village. So, we do not have actual like plans for the building. That's just kind of a note. Um, in the in the uh packet, you can see I've highlighted the area in there if you were unaware of where it's at. Um, we also put a public sign in front of it as required. Uh a bit bit background in the history on this. On April 11th, the petitioners put in an application for a building permit to convert it. Um on an April 22nd, due to the uh failure of to meet the zoning code, staff returned that as not approved. Um the reason it failed to meet the zoning code is because the uh zoning code requires off- streetet parking space for every an enclosed off- streetet parking space for every single uh residential single res family residential unit in in the village whether attached or detached. After the conversion uh and the looking at the plans that provided provision are provided after the conversion the family room would be four feet or the rest of the garage would be four feet 6 in per the municipal code all residential areas

must have a minimum the minimum space for it must be 9 ft in width and 20 ft in length with a vertical clearance of 7 ft as it would not meet the size requirements for off- streetet parking then therefore it would not count for the one required enclosed space and therefore be in violation. After we informed the petitioners of that, they provided the variation application. We provided the variation application to them and they returned it noting that it was a reasonable accommodation request. Uh as part of the municipal code 42143b, um there is with the reasonable accommodation request, there are certain items that we can ask. The ones that are in the packet numbers five, six, and seven um are those that are non-standard two variation requests. One, two, and three are like name, location, what you want to do. Um but five, six, and seven are are the impairment for which the accommodation requested, the prognosis of the time frame which the accommodation would be required for. That means basically if you have an accommodation because you have a temporary um disability or a temporary condition that might that could be cleared up in a year or two then that would be that and then that the variation would be temporary. Um and then basically report or a clinical psychologist detailing that the petitioner did provide us that information back. Um however at the same time they asked the requested be that the request be that the information be kept private um and that then that they requested that the petitioner will be present at the meeting to answer all the relevant questions for that and I believe he is here actually I believe he's here he is here um as part of that the municipal code I outlined in that um in particular the one thing that we're looking at the uniqueness of this is this is not like a standard standard variation request

where we asked the 13 findings of fact. Um this instead we are looking at this as a reasonable accommodation under the fair housing act. Now in looking up guidance for this um you know basically we have to look we have to make this reasonable accommodation has to go through the process through all of it. Um but it is determined on a case-byase basis. the the Illinois, excuse me, the Department of of Justice Civil Rights Division um provided some guidance on this and what they said is that they basically put a a two question test on there which is first does the request impose an undue burden or expense on the local government and the second one was does the proposed use create a fundamental alteration in the zoning scheme? The answer to either is yes, the request of accommodation is unreasonable. However, they also note that what might be reasonable in one circumstance might not be reasonable in another and the scope and the magnitude of the modification requested and the features of surrounding neighborhood are among the factors that will be taken into account when doing these types of things. So this is as I so I wanted to point this out because it is a it very particular is basically we are looking at the what the request modification is what the request of variation is and if it would cause essentially with these two factors of it is is do those two does the reason does the reasonable accommodation request uh you know pertain to the to the the the impairment that we are looking at that that um pertain to the impairment. So it's not something like you know something completely um unrelated and the other thing is is we're looking at is would it cause an undue burden on some an undue burden on the neighborhood or or change the the fundamental scheme on that. So um to that since it was

requested to be private staff didn't really have any additional analysis on this um and then we nor did we have a recommendation and so staff we'll say that you know um as optitioners here that that we should ask the pertinent questions to determine if the accommodation that is being requested is reasonable and does not cause that undue administrative burden or change the underlying scheme. If you have any other questions for me, I can try to answer them.

Um, thank you. Excellent summary of what we're hearing tonight. And to be clear, because over the last couple meetings, we've had some special land uses, we've had some variances. Um, I want to understand we are hearing a variance tonight which runs with the property and is not a conditional approval like a special land use which would run with the owner.

It in this specific case with the reasonable accommodation variation, it it goes with the person who has the impairment. So in the previous one we did that was similar to this, we did it as a special use. And this is one of those things where technically a special use is a special use variation. We don't use the term special use variation because it would confuse people in in in the difference between a special use and basically what we consider a variation where a special use is with the person. Variation is with the property. In this specific case, the way it's it's written in our code and so we're calling it a variation in this one. So there's no subsequent prep preparation of an ordinance that we would have to then hear next month and approve?

No, we would still be required to to have the ordinance written. So tonight we're tonight giving you permission to advance correct drafting an ordinance.

Correct. Your your options tonight are either to provide a negative recommendation and not direct staff to create an ordinance, to have a positive recommendation and have staff direct staff to provide an ordinance. The there's a third option which is also you might be a you might look to provide a different reasonable accommodation than maybe the maybe the petitioner has requested and the fourth option is to continue it to continue the hearing if you need further information if there needs to be further deliberation on the issue. So, those those are the the four options we have tonight. But if you're look but if you're looking to a positive recommendation, yes, we'd be looking to direct staff to draft the ordinance to then to then um come back, approve it, and then go to the next village board meeting.

Thank you. Sorry to consume it. On the staff presentation, do any of the commissioners have any questions on what Andres has disclosed and what we've all reviewed? I have a couple questions. Is there are we aware of any precedent of something like this having been approved before? Have any other acacia units been modified in this way?

I am not aware of any garages being modified for um turning to family space or for turning into a family room or for um that type of reasonable accommodation. Um the reasonable accommodations that I have come across in my research in the village have been um well our handrail that we did last a couple months ago. Prior to after the prior to that there was a ramp that was provided in Indian Ridge in Indian Ridge um for a gentleman who had disability. Um, and then prior to that, there would have been two fences that were approved for um for locations where the the household had a child that had the special needs that required a fence essentially for their own safety. Um, and I will note that with these with these, just like a special use, any of these accommodations, once the condition is no longer there, once the person either they move or or um get better, let's be happy about that one. um then that comment then it goes away. The part of the requirement is the restoration of the property to its original form at the end of when no longer the the condition is there.

Andreas, can you can you explain to me uh you had two questions the the reasonable accommodation pertain to impairment and then something about undue burden? I So yeah, so the the explain that again please. I I'll go over it and to what I understand and understand I'm not an expert on this. Sure.

So um the justice department's website um basically had provided provided an opinion on how to judge these cases. Now I will say this specifically on this one was talking about group homes but it it it basically covers all of them. So um first does it does the request impose an undue burden or expense on the local government? Basically, if we change this request, is it going to is it going to cost us a significant amount of more money to police it or or enact it or enforce it than necessarily um any any other home in Acacia? That' be the that'd be the first one. The second one is does it does the proposed use create a fundamental alteration in the zoning scheme? Which essentially means is is does it change that current is it does it change the property so far differently to then be no longer like an R3 which is which is more dense attached town homes as a most casia is. So those are the two those are the two things that are on that. However, um as I said there are each each is taken individually and the scope and the reasonability in one place might not be reasonability in another on that. Um and I said the scope and the magnitude can be something that is that is also a factor into it.

Any other questions before we invite the the petitioner to uh visit with us. We have representation from the petitioner. Are you able to come to the stand? Wonderful. Oh, whoever you think will be uh speaking. I need you to swear both of you in to the extent you're both speaking. Yes. Bet you didn't expect this crowd for us. Not really. Not for this. Can you can you just double check to make sure the the mic is on? It should have a green light at the top. Exactly. All right. Thank you very much.

Since you both may be speaking, I'd ask that you both raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony you are going to present tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes. Excellent. Wonderful. Uh so what are we uh I think Andress explained to us what we're what we're considering tonight. Is there anything beyond what Andress I would just say could you also identify yourselves for the record just just so when I do the minutes later it's a lot easier for me. Cindy O'Keefe o ke on behalf of Debbie and George Deminiac. I am George Deminiac. D O M I N I AK. Wonderful.

Thank you very much. Is there anything beyond what Andre shared that you guys would

Well, first in regards to him quoting the DOJ, it's not really the precedent for it, but with those two items that were stated, there is no burden on the village. The village doesn't have to do anything in regards to this property. There's no extra policing. It's completely internal. Um, plus Mr. Deminiac, and he'll give testimony in regards to this, has never used the garage to to park his cars in. He's never done so. And it is common knowledge that in the area there's other units in the area that have been converted. Don't know how, don't know why, but this this is the situation we're in. Uh now um this could go either way in regards to regular variance or reasonable accommodation. We want to hit it both ways because initially in 100% it is for the reasonable accommodation of Mr. Dominiac. Um he's been going through this for a very long time. He has been going through this for over a year and a half now. or has it been two years?

Two years.

Two years um trying to get this taken care of and it and it's been a long haul. It hasn't been been just we submitted a permit. We actually was filed a complaint uh in regards to this with the HOA. So, this has been a long long fight. Um and it's for something kind of simple and silly that initially he was told you don't even need a permit. Then he was told yes you do need a permit. And then now this has spiraled into something it really shouldn't have in regards to an elderly couple living there for over 30 years needing a space so they can get into their space comfortably in due to you know especially Mr. Dominiac's uh disability. First it started over a window and then into the space. So we've you know we've worked with the HOA we settled kindly uh out of court with regards to that. Um but here we are. So, any questions?

Mr. Deminiac, do you have a a state um is There we go. That's what That's what I was going to ask you. Yep. because the pre the same thing with our previous um one I asked the same way because I said the state and as I to remind the plan commission with the previous one as well as part of my recommendation was the fact that um the state of Illinois requires significant amounts of paperwork and proof to provide uh to get a handicapped placard. That's not the proper term. I forget exactly what it is. My apologies. Um and so there so there is a significant uh piece of evidence as well for for them. Um I also want to point out this kind of not to that question. Uh yes this has this does take a this is a much longer issue. It's been an issue for the last couple years. Um in creating my staff report my first draft had all the impact information that we did have into it but I did not feel that it was relevant and pertinent to all of it. So I want to acknowledge that you are absolutely right. This is and they are telling the truth in that matter that it is a very long process from my understanding starting in December of 2023. Um at least when the village was involved with it. So um but outside of that information it I didn't feel like it I didn't want to put extra information in there that might that that distracted from the reasonable accommodation. And so I wanted to make that explanation to the to the board and anybody watching and listening. So

what is the status of the homeowners association's position on this? Did I hear you say they've been opposed to it? The the the opposition was in regards to part of the project which was having a sliding glass door instead of a window and they have now approved that. And any of the interior construction then was required to be approved by the village via a permit. To to elaborate a bit on that, Mr. Deminiac, um to where there is currently a window for most those for some of the units in Acacia, he replaced it with a sliding glass door. Okay. Um and after some contention on and back and forth, the the HOA has now approved that sliding glass door.

Okay. Mr. Dominiac would like to clarify that. It's a garage, had no windows. We were requested to have uh sliding doors and was approved by the HOA and then of course everything started to uh go negative. Uh that's why council got involved and now we're able through the HOA to have the sliding glass doors. So, it's sliding glass doors, never a window, and that's about it.

Anything else to add? Um, what I'd like to do now is open it up to the public, see if there's anybody that is here to speak uh on the subject. Um, they may have questions, comments, others, and then what we'd like to do is have you guys come back to the extent there is anybody out there. me part them. Sorry. Oh, no, no, no. We're we're gonna ask the public to come up and then we're gonna have them respond to any comments the public has, at which time we'll we'll do the same thing. But is there anybody from the public? Let's let's let's circumvent this. Is there anybody from the public that is here to speak uh on this petition?

Excellent. Can you please come to the podium and introduce yourself? And as petitioners, don't go far because we're going to have you right back up. Um, can you please introduce yourself?

I'm Diane Voy. Um, I live in Acacia, um, approximately a block away and I'm also on the Acacia board and I'm here at the meeting because, um, I object to the um, variation just because we're a planned unit development. Keeping everything uniform is important to me. I think this would be a very dangerous precedent if this were to happen. Um I think it would open the gate for all kinds of possible questions and concerns. Um my other thought on the matter is specifically to item four where the homeowner has said his ability does not allow him to use the full use of his home. the homeowners. The home is a two-level home. I'm If if the homeowner cannot get up the stairs to use the second floor, I I question the addition of an of another room, having the garage turned into a room when there's already a kitchen and a living room or living space on the regular floor. I don't understand. And I don't even believe there's a full bath on the regular floor. I believe the only shower in that type of a unit unless it's been remodeled. So, I don't have that knowledge would be on the second floor. Anyway, so my thoughts on this is that item four is definitely um not a necessity. That was all I had to say.

Thank you. Can we request a little more clarification of what the modification actually is? Because the mention of the sliding door got me confused. I guess I was misunderstanding cuz I thought the outward appearance was still going to be that there'd be a garage door. It's just that when it opened up, there would not be the depth of space required for a car. Correct. Uh the so the sliding glass door was not was was not what I put it in the um memo for the reason that it is not needed as part of the variation. Okay.

When the garage door would open, can still open. Um there then the depth would not be there. The way the plans are is there's a separate partition wall that would then be there as well. But the sliding glass door that is used for for the access is is not something once aacia approved it is not something that our village code disallows. So it's it's it's so yes, there is a modification to the exterior of it, but once the Acacia HOA approved that modification of it, there's nothing in our code, which is what we were discussing that that disallows that sliding glass door on the side of it. So it would be on that would be on the side and from the front it would still have a garage door. Correct. Okay. I was trying to figure that out.

Yeah. I apologize that it's it's like I said, it's that weird. It says it's kind of that uniqueness of of yes, it's changing something, but it's not actually within the scope of what we're what the plan commission is considering.

I'm sorry. I I was listening to your conversation before and I do have another question. Depending on which way do you go, if this is an accommodation, I heard something goes with the unit and something goes with the homeowner. who if if this variation or accommodation goes with the homeowner, whose responsibility is it to return that garage into a garage, at what point during the sale of that house does that have to happen? And who enforces that? Would that be the village of Indian Head Park? And how would you know when this needed to be returned to its initial garage situation? So as a as a reasonable accommodation variation, it follows will will it follow the petitioner. So when the petitioner is no longer at that residence, then that the uh the entire home the unit would then be required to be returned to its original state as a garage. If that is through sale, um then at that point as part of that sale, it would be on the petitioner's it would be on the petitioner to change or or whomever has inherited uh the property to change it back and that would be on them. And how would we know with that? That's a very good question. And the answer is generally we would know it because the fact it when they change when they change ownership of the property which usually then goes with a water bill. when people change ownership in the village, especially in in Acacia, that they change water bills and we do then know we'd see that the change of ownership is there.

So, do you have a way to flag those water bills to say this this house is a special occurrence and something has to happen? We do now actually with our brand new software that we are getting. We it it is now a unified software compared to our old one. Um, and we can put flags on those types of things. And it so if not for this case, but you know, if there's something there's some a violation or something that's going on or or unpaid anything that's at an address, our new software now doesn't matter what it is, it flags it so it comes up when the new when the new um process hap when the new changeover happens.

That's good because we don't have any way to do that within the acacia board. Um, and then I guess lastly, um, I am unaware of other garages that have been turned into rooms, and I the I heard the attorney say, "Oh, yes, it's it's others." So, I would respectfully request those addresses be furnished to the Acacia board because we are unaware of this um in happening. I I'll just say on the village's part, you know, we don't lift up everybody's garages to see what's going on inside. So, if someone provides us with the information, we do follow up on any complaints. Otherwise, like I said, we are not actively going around peeking in people's garages, windows, rose bushes, or anything like that.

Um Amy Eckert, I'm a resident of vacation. I'm also on the board. Andreas, I have a question. You mentioned something about parking and I was a little confused. You gave all kinds of dimensions. So, could you reexlain that to me? As part of the villages, uh, zoning code, every single single family residential, so our R1's through R4s, um, are required to have one off streetet and one enclosed parking space. Basically, you have to have enough space in a driveway and a garage to park a vehicle. Um, and as part of the zoning code, we are we provided dimensions that were required for that and they are 9 by 9 ft by 20 ft and for an enclosed space by 7 ft high. So, the reason this requires a variation is because the fact that if you eliminate that 9 by 20 ft, then at that point it no longer meets the zoning codes because no longer has an enclosed space that would accommodate a vehicle. Okay. And and for the off- streetet parking by offre street street parking or was it off-site parking?

It's it's off streetet parking. And so a driveway counts for off streetet parking. A basically Yeah. For residential purposes. Off- streetet parking is driveways or or enclosed which would be garages or some enclosed parking structure of some sort. Um we don't we don't allow like carports but assumingly it could be like a carport. Um but does it make a difference how many cars are registered to a particular house? It it does not it does not make a difference on it espec nor does the the acacia pud at the time when it was put in place was was that an issue. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. You're very welcome.

Hello. My name is John Bidding. I do not live in AACA. I live in Oldtown. didn't come here planning on speaking this tonight, but after hearing all of this, really feel it incumbent to do so. It seems to me like this is a gross overreach by both the HOA and the board. Uh there is reasonable accommodations that need to be met per the American Disabilities Act. Uh this gentleman is, I believe, asking politely. He's not changing the square footage of the home. He's really not changing the exterior of the home per the HOA. I think that is the major problem. He has also said that he's willing to bring the home back to its original after he's done using it. Given all of this, I think that the village and the HOA, even by denying this, is opening ourselves up to legal ramifications by not accepting something within this reasonable accommodations of the American Disabilities Act. That's all I have to say. Thank you.

Thank you. I would like to clarify one point for that. um under under the Fair Housing Act, yes, we do the we do have to make hearings for reasonable accommodations. We and we have to make them as promptly as we can and but they do go through the normal process. So, this is the normal process for any variation. So, any sort of reasonable accommodation that would come through has to go through this process.

Good evening. Um Vander S h49 Cascade Drive next door. I I never had a problem with this, but my biggest concern is will you get a um some kind of a project of what he actually is going to do before it is done like a um architect. I'm sure he's going to have an architect come in and do this. So, he will have some kind of a a project on what he's going to do. So, it's not a ba a bedroom, it's going to be a family room. No bathroom. That's what my biggest concern is. and I'm going to um side with Diane is I'm worried about everyone else doing the same thing. So that's my biggest concern. If he wants to spend his money and do this and not move, that's fine. But my biggest concern is everyone else is going to do the same thing and then we're going to have all these other things going on. But we have to make sure he's all he's doing is a family room and no bathroom because I just had my best basement done and I will not have flooding in there

for any reason to one one second let me answer that to answer part of that part of that uh this

Mr. Dominiac has provided us plans. Um we have as part of the process and this very long process we did look through them briefly. I basically had my one of our um consultants briefly thumb through it. He didn't provide a full review but he did look through it to see if there was anything glaring. He did not see anything. If and when this is approved, he'll go those plans will go through our building consultants for a full in-depth review of the building plans and there so it'll make sure that it is up to specifications as if any anything else because it is a shared unit. There is there is additional uh codes that go on just like if you were doing work in your shared unit as well. So if this does get approved, this will be a safe play. This will be a safe structure according to building codes. Sorry, last thing I'll say. I I would just like to remind everyone again that this is for a disability and this does not mean that every single person in AACA is going to convert their garage based on a madeup disability. This is a real thing. Anybody else from the public care to comment on the petition? Thanks everybody who did speak. It's always good to get the participation in the engagement. All right, we have questions of the uh applicant staff or any of the folks that took time out of their evening to speak on the petition. Now's the time. So I have a just a clarifying question

for the petitioner and and lawyer. Um the that mic can also come out in case it's more comfortable. Mr. Maniac. Um, so the the the for the the the I'm trying to be as to keep it as private as possible. You have you've shown us that you have a dis, you know, your your handicap plaquing park handicap parking placard which implies some mobility constraints compared to uh someone who is fully abled. Um, how is that is that correct? And is this and how does this family room address that or am I incorrect and that might be for something different and this is not addressing that. So, I'm just trying to get the the correlation between the family room and for the I'm I'm basically trying to find what the the I'm trying to define the correlation between the the family room and the allowing him to fully use the home. As as much as you're comfortable with sharing, I should be.

Would you app would you appreciate exactly what this room will be? It's Yeah, it's a family room, but a family is everyone. This is for me. It's a garage. We all know it's a garage. It has four walls. If you take the one wall out, it's a garage. It's a car garage. I'm having a fourth wall put in just as a privacy thing because I don't want the garage door open left and right. The reason for this is, yeah, I do have disabilities, more than one. Actually, I got like five or six. 63 I'll be around. Okay. Unfortunately, now I can't go up the stairs quickly. I can go up the stairs, but it does take me time. I haven't been down in my basement in maybe two years. Uh the reason is I have a problem with stairs. Acacia has stairs and when these buildings were built, they weren't coded right. If you measure stairs, it should be 8 in high. They're they're not. Um, my ability of do stairs is there. I mean, I can still do everything except you. I fall, I'm done. I can't get up on my own. I do drive. I do have this thing. I only use this if it's a necessity because I can still walk, talk, breathe, the whole thing. It's

for convenient if needed, not all the time. The only time I actually use this is when I do go to the hospital for doctor's appointments. They have like five rules. So, and I wasn't asked to get they gave it to me. They said, "You need this." My doctor, who is foreign, uh I She's new to me, but of course the records go on and go on. Um to get into my home, it's two normal stairs going back to the um patio doors. The reason for the patio doors is it's a step up, not two stairs and then another step. It's just a little step up. It's a wider door. It looks nice. It was approved, but it was approve. We had problems with our HOA and the first HOA approved it, which was my neighbor. He was the president. So that was approved. We continued on because my mom was going to maybe lift with us or not. And that's what I came to the office and questioned it a few years ago. Just questioned it. And you your staff wasn't here. It was the old staff and stated um yeah, you can do anything. It's your house. As long as the house is garage is attached to the house, you're okay. The electric is continuing from the electric I have. I already had three finished walls. I just added another wall

and a ceiling. You can have a ceiling in the garage. Garage door goes up and down. Everything still works. I haven't put cars in the garage for years because of I I have a truck. The van doesn't fit. So So basically, it's for my convenience. It's not a bedroom. It's not a living space. It's an exercise bike getting easy into the house. Period. No. No showers or nothing because I can still go up but it takes me a while. So thanks one other thing in regards to um Mr. Dominiac and his and his disabilities. Um, these are permanent and he he did say that we could disclose he does have minimally osteoarthritis which was provided and it's going to continue to get worse and over the last two years it has has gotten worse and the biggest concern is him falling. Um, have being able to have that space that he can get to that's not a bath, you know, that was a concern. Um, and this isn't a floodgates argument because not everybody who has osteoarthritis, you know, who can't go upstairs. I This is a specific individual as you have stated as well, Mr. Beltran. You said you haven't seen any of these come through. So, this isn't going to open a floodgates. Um, if it did, you guys would have that control and that power to maybe do some sort of different vetting in regards to it to make sure. Um I I felt like um some of the comments were questioning Mr. Dominiac's disability. It's no question he has a disability and that's simple and he has a space that he needs so that he can use

his home in the way that he should be able to enjoy his home and this isn't going to be an undue burden upon the village and this isn't going to cost the village anything in regards to it other than our time and you guys being here which I do like to say I appreciate everyone here everyone here who got notices uh that was here as well. Um, and just for the record, it's been a pleasure dealing with the the village attorney. I thought he was going to be here tonight. So, but it's it's a very nice village. So, thank you. And thank you for your explanation on that because that was the that's kind of the as I was explaining to it is the key is that it's the the burden is not necessarily that he can't use anything. Basically the burden for a reasonable accommodation is not that they cannot use their property at all. It is to is to the same extent that someone else cannot enjoy the property. It's not just used, it's also the enjoyment of it. And so with Mr. Dominick's explanation in in that he essentially has a harder time using the rest of his living space. Um that is what the that is what the correlation that I was looking for. So thank you very much on that. Anything else for the petitioner or any of the folks that spoke on behalf of the petition?

No. Excellent. Well, at this time I'll entertain question for a dollar. That's two questions. Yes.

Listening to all this helps explain what's going on. My question is, is there a different accommodation that would allow Mr. Dominiac to access his entire house as opposed to changing the use of a garage to a family room. Is there some other way, some other accommodation that could meet his needs so he could enjoy his entire house? question.

Have has there been have I guess the question would be was there anything else explored or was this the option recommended by medical professionals?

This was the option as well as a ramp was it was also an option as with the the the room that he was able to access. The duty of the village is not to come up with other reasonable accommodations. Is is this one will be does this qualify as an accommodation reasonable accommodation for the homeowner? Not to spearhead and come up with other ideas in regards to it. That's not the burden of the board or the village. It's to approve it. Does he have a disability? Will this unburden the village? Will this burden other individuals? And from the testimony so far, it doesn't sound like it. We have one objection in regards to floodgates issue and everybody doing it, which that's not the case. Um, we have um a homeowner with a disability. So, any other questions?

Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Can I uh entertain a motion to close the public hearing? Once we close it, it's just us. Cat. Motion to close the public meeting. Public hearing. Second. Second by Mr. Mshaw. All in favor of closing the public hearing. I I I

All opposed. Motion carries. Public hearing is now closed. Deliberate team, I think it's uh very important for us to re recognize and distinguish between what we're hearing, what we're what we're considering here. Uh and I think it's important to to emphasize the reasonable accommodation. The the concern albeit valid about all vacia conversion from garages to living rooms is something that we would have to hear and but for a reasonable accommodation um I don't know that it would go very far uh with this commission. I'm only speaking for myself, but um I think that as we're thinking about whether to accommodate this petition or not, we need to keep in mind how unique the uh circumstances are given the health of the petitioner. Um and uh make sure that we're doing our job to make a recommendation to the board. And so we're clear what we will be voting on is approval for staff to begin drafting an ordinance to document the conditions of this petition.

Yeah. You will direct staff to draft the ordinance to approve the reasonable accommodation that you will see at your next plan commission meeting, which is September 2nd, I believe.

Um, I heard a question about a list of other garage conversions. Um Anthony, if somebody converted their garage, technically they should have come through the village for a permit, similar to the petitioner who is navigating that process right now. So can I ask that you go through the records of permits that have been applied for over the last 10, 15 years, whatever you have access to to see if we have any garage uh conversions to family rooms. I will definitely look into that um and and review all the permit documentations. I don't think I'm fairly certain that there haven't been any legally permitted conversions

legally permitted. Right.

And then uh one of the other things is because this is a this is something that would go with the petitioner and not the property. I understand and appreciate we have the ability to monitor transfer of title through water bills. But if I'm the buyer, I've already bought the house when I'm when I'm transferring the water. And I would hate for that gotcha moment to surprise me when I'm uh trying to transfer the water bill. So I'm I'm is is there another mean to track this such that if title changes hands and the petitioner vacates the premise, the new owner is not surprised when they go to transfer their water and they say and we say how's your garage decon conversion going? I will have to double check. I believe we could also record it with the uh Cook County recorder such as the plan commission did with the sheds and fences special uses. I will have to double check on that though since I've never personally done that for a variance or a special use.

My come up on a title report. Correct. My other comment would be well then your lawyer should have called us beforehand because real estate lawyer should call us beforehand before you buy your property. Yeah. Yeah. But not everybody gets a real estate loan. Yeah. Espec I mean understand right now especially that people move fast. They don't do as much due diligence as usual. But is is a lean possible the place property? A a lean would not be the proper mechanism because a lean is for money. But yeah, we I will I will definitely double check to see if there's some sort of recording that can be done. And if that is the case, um I will get it back to you before the next uh meeting. Well, this obviously has value. Even though it's not a lean, it still has value. A lean is for what is

a lean is for what is owed to the village. It's it's a monetary thing. Um so like I said, it could be a recording um for it and I'll have I'll double check with our legal team on that as well. And if there is a case for it when we draft the ordinance uh with the help of legal, we will put that stipulation in there that it be recorded with the Cook County of Deeds or whatever the mechanism is. Any other questions for staff? Actually, no questions for staff. It's just us. So, if uh we think we've heard enough, I'd entertain a motion to give staff permission to advance drafting a ordinance to the benefit of the petitioner for this conversion. Um, I would ask for it to be a favorable motion and then when we do a roll call vote, I would ask that you either support yes or decline no in the vote.

Motion. Yes, sir. All motion motion to approve this ordinance. Is that what you said? I think what we're what we're what we're motioning is motion given given staff permission to draft an ordinance in support of the petition. Okay. Do I have a second? Second.

Second. Let be known motion by Mr. Bina to give staff permission to draft an ordinance in support of the petitioner. Seconded by Mr. Mshaw. I'd ask that we uh do a roll call vote. Yes or no. Yes in support. No. Uh if we're against it. Can I get you to roll call? Commissioner Balina. Yay. Commissioner Mshaw. Yay. Commissioner Hatkkey. Yay. Commissioner Tantillo. Yes. Commissioner Gormley Barnes.

No. And Chair Greg Scovich? Yay. With five to with four to one, the motion carries. Did I miscount how many people are here? Oh, I'm sorry. Five to one. Is Is there a way to kind of now determine what the timeline is going to be so everyone understands the expectation going forward? You mentioned you're going to go ahead with this next step. What's the realistic timeline before it gets to approval stage?

So, the realistic timeline on this is that I will bring this back at the September 2nd meeting. Uh, if you make no changes, if it's all approved, then I will take it to the September board meeting, which would be whatever is nine days at September 10th or 11th, the board meeting. At that point they would approve uh the ordinance. They the reason we are doing this now this way is because the board gets to see it multiple days ahead of time instead of a couple days ahead of time. Sure.

Um that will be the second Thursday uh board meeting. At that point um once it's approved then the petitioner's uh plans will be put through to the for building review as it would then automatically pass zoning review. and then we'll go through the review process. We are currently in our permits, our current permit process is a seven business day turnaround approximately. Um, and so then hypothetically speaking, the petitioner could be underway by midepptember.

Thank you. Thanks for your patience. Thanks for the thorough application. We'll see you next month if he thinks you need to be here for the plan commission next month. Not likely uh due to just the way it is. But if you wish to appear at the board meetings, I'll keep you up a breast of the dates and times for everything. All right. I'd say I'd say share a draft of your ordinance with them to the extent they have any

improvements suggestions then I would encourage you to come but if the ordinance that he shares draft ordinance that he shares with you is acceptable then I will do such thanks you're free to go unless you want to talk fences or hear about the board report or do do you the building code updates, zoning code updates, anyone? Anyway, um thank you.

All right. All right, Andreas, let's uh talk new business. What do we got in front of us? Looks like residential fence regulations.

Correct. At the July 10th board meeting, the village board passed a resolution directing directing the plan commission to consider the appropriateness of current fence resol resolations, excuse me. Um, in particular, the village board requested the planning and zoning commission look examine the matter whether the village ordinances regarding the installation of fences in residential districts should be amended. So whether they should be changed um get public I'm going to summarize get public in input um on this including a public hearing but also up to any other public input we'd le like to do review any previous input and recommendations from previous committees and on fences on sheds um and then basically create a and provide a report and a recommendation on whether that everything I just said before let's be honest Um and then also if there's any types of what type of fences and where they should be permitted and how they should be constructed and maintained. So basically what they should look like. Um the the part of the resolution directed us to provide a uh report and its findings and recommendations prior to the board's regular December meeting on December 11th. Um, so basically we'd have to do it'd be the timeline would would be the December 2nd, 2025 plan commission meeting would be when the plan commission would finalize its findings and reports. Now because this is a very big topic as we can see from our numbers of people in the audience it's going to be something we would will have to take in steps and directed very directed very considered to get everything in there. So the tenatively as we as we discussing each of these meetings will have an objective to look

over. So this current meeting we're going to do the introduction which is what I'm doing now. We're going to overview in the process which is what I'm doing now and then for this for the next part of this discussion we are going to basically I call it brainstorm but as we were discussed at the last meeting we're going to look at the pros and cons of changing uh those and we're going to take that in two steps. Basically the commission is going to look at all the pros. They're going to tell us we're going to talk about all the reasons why they should be changed and then we're going to flip on put our different hats on and say why all the reasons they shouldn't be changed. Then from that discussion, the plan commissioners will will also and then public input of course the the plan commissioners will then look at staff if there's any other questions they want they they don't have enough information for or if they want staff to to look at certain points of data to do additional research on our next meeting. We're going to be following up on items from this one, but also we'll be looking at our public input strategy. Are we looking at just a public hearing? Are we looking at public surveying? How many public hearing, you know, how many public meetings we're going to have? These types of these types of outreach that I'll focus on that tenatively. October 7th, we would have a public hearing on the regulations for fences and mostly just soliciting input for it and any input on what the commission has already provided. November 4th, I have put uh a public hearing continuation in case we have a lot of input. And then uh we would also do the first draft of the recommendations to the village board. And then finally December 2nd, this commission would finalize the reports to the board that would then be sent out for that December 11th meeting. I also have included what the deliverables will be here. I put the comprehensive background history on this. Unfortunately, I have not been able to do that because um some of the some of the information is missing. Some of it's in a format that's very hard to digitize

and then analyze. Um, I am put I did put significant amount of information in there though if you wish to review them. Um, as I said in September, we'll I'll provide any follow-up to these questions. I'm going to be also looking at creating a a list of allowable locations because as a PUDS, not all PUDs would allow them to have it. For instance, you know, I don't think Wilshshire Green is going to have fences in their backyards. Um, and then we'll look at comparable village codes. So, what our neighboring towns are doing, what they look like, and then I'll also if we might create a public survey if possible, and then I said the October 7th be public hearing, and then we'll working on the drafts and all that. So, as I discussed somewhat briefly, um the objective here for this commission meeting is to is to basically take an overview look of what the reasons for possibly changing fence regulations could be, what those regulation reasons for changing those fence reging those fence regulations would be, and see if that filters out any further information or questions that the commission's staff wishes to research for the next meeting. Um, as I said, the reason we're taking this kind of very measured approach is because in previous attempts of looking at fence regulations, they seem to have not taken a holistic approach. It didn't seem to be very measured. It seemed a very ad hoc and off from the hip to be honest with you. And it seemed that what happened was the project got too big all at once and it essentially got stepped away from which is not a good process or a way to get public input on the topic. So um that is what I have for the report on this and I'll if I have any questions or comments more than happy to answer.

So to confirm we're not taking any action tonight. No, this is is more of it is a discussion on basically the pros and cons of changing the fence rules and then any other type of information you wish staff to then find out and provide.

And at the conclusion of this five, six month effort, it's not inconceivable for us to arrive at some some consensus that what is in black and white exists today in the in the in the zoning code is acceptable. Correct. You you can accept it could be acceptable. It could be unacceptable. It might be minor changes. It might need major changes. At the end of the at the end of the day and that last December meeting, whatever that report and whatever the recommendations or findings are, the goal is to have it done in a very well-considered comprehensive manner so that everyone has input that wants to provide input has provided input. It's everything has been listened to and that in the end whatever the decision is there's no question of how that decision was reached at the end

and these dates assume we have quorum. Assume we have quorum. Assume we um don't have something else that might push the dates forward or backwards. Excellent. Thanks Andreas.

Looking at this schedule, it notes in September next month we would talk about the possibility or the value of doing a villagewide survey of some kind, what form it would take, all of that to be determined. Is there going to be another villagewide newsletter that goes out? We all just received one like last week or something. Is there going to be within this time frame another villagewide mailing or any kind of mechanism that we could use for a villagewide survey?

If we were to look to do something villagewide, we either could do it digitally um and like do like note cards kind of like we did the the you know we had postcards to send out. So then people would then be able to do it um online as part of it. Um, we could also just do a full mailing like we did community surveys in the past. Sorry, the previous community survey was done with a note card and then people would come in or they could come in and fill out a paper copy as well. Um, we could do it like that. We could do a full mailing on it. We could hybr we could do like a hybrid kind of how we did with the um the heritage center surveys on that type of thing. So there there's a lot of options that we can do. Um if we were, you know, if if the commission was looking at wanting to do a full survey for everybody in the village, we could we we know how to do that. Um and we could discuss whether you know the cost of it and where to to do that as well. This this assumes that we'd do a public hearing in October and maybe continue it to November if we were trying to do some more broad outreach, you know, and give everyone a chance to either go online and answer look at some information and answer or come to village hall and look at some information and answer some questions. I that's that just seems a little too aggressive as a timeline. But we do have built in here that if we did the public hearing nove in November, it might just be a marathon depending on how many people felt like they hadn't been able to share their inputs via the survey.

Yeah. the time frame if if into September we look to do a a villagewide survey either online we' we'd look to but probably keep it open from midepptember to mid November so past those kind of public hearing dates to get that and and correlate that data on that way um because you're absolutely correct you know it's 8:00 on national night out and I'm we have a very packed room for village for you know Indian head park but not everybody can show up at 7 o'clock on the first Tuesday of the month and we would prefer to have as much input as possible on these so we can get a full communitywide comprehensive look at what is going on. So once again the survey we have a tool available to us. We've done it before. We could enact that. Um questions asked are designed by some subject matter expert I would imagine. And then the tabulation and the results are all available to us in in a timely fashion that we would have it um for these public hearings. Correct. Did I get that right?

We' we'd have the preliminary data for both October and and November. Uh kind of as Gavin was sharing the survey results, you know, you might see, okay, well, on October we have a hundred and then okay, and you know, you might be after that, but yes, the the the uh surveys will be crafted by people who have extensive knowledge on how to craft surveys. Yeah. which is both Gavin and I as a matter of fact. So just just to point out identify yourself. Yeah.

Yeah. I I did I did I designed the one Algangquin still uses um back in the day. Um and then Gavin went and did you know did a bunch of it from PCO and went to the MA, the International City Managers Association to share the results there. So we're fairly good at those. So are is it right to then start documenting the questions that we have at this time? Yes. Okay. I mean you mean like right now in the meeting or just like Oh I don't know. I'd defer to Greg at that one. Chairman Scovich? Yeah. Like September you're responding to August question. So I didn't know if you wanted to solicit public input before that after that.

Oh that's right. That's a great question. That's a great question. We have public comments as the seventh item on the agenda. Can we have subject matter public engagement on the fourth item? As the chair, you are able to ask for public comments on topics at at your discretion. Can I pick and choose? Just kidding. I mean, yes, you technically can, but it's probably not best government.

No. Everybody, we've been here for an hour and 15 minutes. Thank you for your time. Thrilled to see as many people that are in the room. Uh let's open up for public comment. What aren't we thinking about that we should be? I challenge you guys. You came out. Tell us what we need to be thinking about. Hi John Bidding again. I did come here to talk about this. Uh thanks for your contribution earlier. That was you know it comes from all all walks and

you know an objective non-emotional voice is is always welcome. I figured I was here, so I should just say something. Um, yeah, fences. I, you know, this one touches home a little bit for me. Um, I do have animals. I live in Oldtown. I have a pretty large lot. We have a large ranch and I've got two large dogs. I keep them on a leash, extended leashes in my backyard. My major concern is at night. We so for my property we adopted 63rd Street. The village gave it to us in lie of charging us a lot of money in taxes more to take it. So the previous owner took it. We have this portion of 63rd Street. It's kind of highly traveled. We get kids walking up and down it. I get fresh beer bottles in there all the time. I get um kids, young adults passing through my property from uh Indianwood to Blackhawk. I don't love this. You know, I got my dogs in the backyard. They're on a leash. I don't know who's coming through, when they're coming through. If my dog were to bite someone, it's a huge liability for me. It's a huge risk to my dog because there's a whole bunch of other stuff. You know, they're not inside my house. They get they get bit on my property walking through trespassing. They have no way to protect the property. Furthermore, beyond that, my property is tiered. When you walk through my property, you don't have as much light. You could walk off a three or four foot ledge that is going to take you to the next tier. You could easily injure yourself. these just very black and white things keep me up at night. You know, I hear kids walking through here in the middle of

the night while I'm at sleep. You know, that's not something that I want for my home. Um I think outside the the bounds of what I'm looking at for my own concern, cars fly in our neighborhood. They run that hill at Blackhawk, you know, got to be going 40, 45 miles an hour. You're not stopping if you see a kid. We got huge bushes in our front yard. I've almost been hit. I know other neighbors who have been hit who haven't reported it. Don Hul, who moved out of here, you know, about a almost a year ago, he he got hit on his tractor in front of his house mowing his lawn. Never reported it. You know, I'm just It's one thing for an adult, you know, we can look both ways. You you cannot see a kid and to not be able to just have that security, I think, is just really shortsighted and I think it's a it's a major safety issue. That's my two cents for tonight. Thank you.

63rd. Uh 63rd is um is it township or is it village or is it county? Do you know? I think it's village. So 63rd doesn't it's Yeah. So if if you're at Planefield in Kakok. Yeah.

And then it's Indianwood and then there was an old street. It was 63rd Street that was decommissioned or what have you. And I think at one point that might have connected old town to 40 acres maybe because it does go up that way. But it's completely grown over. It's all woods. And so when they decommissioned it, they gave or I guess at some point, you guys could research this, they gave the option for the homeowner that backed up to 63rd to adopt it. So what street are the uh are the motorists on that are that are that are creating the concern uh on the on the residential streets like Pontiac.

Got it. Blackhawk. It's just they they take it And it's not just residents, you know. We have we have younger kids driving in here. We have Uber and Amazon, which is like, yeah, NASCAR, you know, and then here comes 530 when people are trying to beat the playing field road traffic and they're rifling through, you know. So, it's just all the things we notice.

Thanks. So to to clarify a bit on that what what he's discussing is basically Hayawa which is now Hayawa was 63rd and it was supposed to come all the way through basically to where almost Sakajia Park was um when the village didn't have that happen. Uh that kind of back par park parking lot here you can you can see how the houses aren't built on it. Sorry I'm just staring now I'm just staring at my computer. Basically, basically the house is split because what the the the uh what would have been 63rd right away is no longer there. So we I don't know who vacated it, but it was vacated and it became those prop part of those property um owners property essentially. But yes, there was there's some uniqueness here too because um on Hayawa because there actually is like a little bit of rightway that was supposed to come. It's it's very it was very interesting. Um but that's what he's referring to over here on on high on what 63rd is towards Hayawa now. Does that make sense? Sorry, I trailed off there a little bit. Um yeah, he's talking about Blackhawk and this area I believe.

Excellent.

You betcha. Yes, my name is uh Frank Leon. We've lived in the village for over 40 years. Um our house is much too big. In fact, we live a couple doors down from Greg. But uh the reason why we we still live here with the kids all gone and all that is mainly because there's no fences and sheds. I like seeing the coyotes running through my yard in the morning. I like seeing the raccoons running through my yard at night. And you know, in all due deference to people that want these, I mean, they knew what the rules and regulations were before they moved in here. Okay. And um except for I think very special circumstances like what happened on Apache Drive for that particular family, uh I don't think there should be any exceptions for fences or sheds. I mean, they don't add value to the property. Um again, I talked about the animal issues. Um, they're expensive and you're pro the village is probably going to have to hire another full-time person just to police this, believe me, because there's going to be so many problems with neighbors suing each other because of the fences and everything else. So, I I'm one of 30 people that I know of that it's totally against fences and sheds, and I hope the board doesn't consider this as an ordinance. Thank you. Sandy Hayes, 6634 Coochis Drive. I was young once. Moved into this neighborhood 53 years ago. The beauty of the open land, the undulating hills. I had a dog. I had a young child. No fences. We survived. No fences.

Lori Davis, 6482 Apache. Um, when you talk about doing a survey of the entire village, I think east of Wolf Road would totally not be impacted. Am I correct if you allowed fences? because it's either a PUD. Ashbrook homes are a PUD and they don't they can make their own decision on whether or not to allow fences. And then you've got all the town houses, you've got Wilshire, you've you've got Indian Indian Wood. So why would you pull everybody? Because they're never going to see his fence that's way over there. And our area, we live actually in the same neighborhood as Greg and Frank. We raised our children and our pets um without offense. But one of the other big things to consider is the size of the various properties on the west side of Wolf Road. Um I think old section most of them are a half acre if not more. We're 9800 square feet with an acre being 40 40 um thousand. We're almost 10. Um there's on on Mohawk Court which is just kind of this way close to us. There's a lot in there that's only 7750 square feet. So when you start putting fences, it's kind of behind where Kennedy lives and in Mohawk Court, you're really chopping up already very very small yards and will really make a it'll it'll have a huge impact um certainly in our neighborhood. I'm sure in the old section se section they won't feel it nearly as much. Thank you. Um, what about residents on the east side? She brings up a good point. Would their PUD dictate it

regardless of Robert?

It it Yeah, it it depends. It depends and that's one of the reasons for next we'll have an allowable map. But the Robert the Robert Bartlett homes are not a PU. The Robert Bartlett estates is not a PUD. But additionally, the places some of the places that are PUD um do not restrict whether or not fences could go in. So 45 acres, which is a PUD, would not restrict where fences could go in off off the top of my head from what I remember. Um Ashbrook homes, the homes, not the town homes, could also possibly I haven't looked at Ashbrooks very closely recently, but also might allow them in. Well, the HOA might not, but but the way the zoning could be is is it could. Um, so there there this is one of those reasons why I said where would they be allowed? Now, to answer the question is why pull the why pull the east side? Um, the the long and short of it is because they're taxpaying members of the village of Indian Head Park and so they have a right to put their public opinion in. I mean that's I understand if they're not going to have every issue is not going to be their opinion but that is that is essentially why we do public hearings why we don't why we do public input we do not get to pick and choose who we listen to as staff I should clarify um and as as board we have to listen to everybody and as good governments to pull everyone on it and then make the decisions from there it

is it valid to ask someone to indicate where they own property when they're answering the survey just so that we could look for patterns, you know, in the data or that would that might inform us. We do we do generally ask a location that's very general like east of Wolf Road, north of Juliet, like we've done before. Yeah. Um we do not correlate that to answers because

there's only four there's only 1,800 housing units and 4,000 people in this town. we could probably very quickly under figure out who's who, which is not what we want to do for getting truthful data on it, but we can't ask it. And that's actually a good thing to ask where it is because we want to make sure we don't get, you know, if we get all the information from one side of the town or not, then then we can see that our our survey is not that. Now, maybe in the end, you know, maybe the east side doesn't care and so they don't get back to us, but we want to see to make sure that we are doing our best to pull a full swath of the village.

Yeah. But just to clarify the point I think about the the neighborhood Ashbrook that if the if the village code were changed to allow fences in the zoning designation that covers that neighborhood, the HOA would then also have to change their policies to allow fences for fences to go into that neighborhood just to just to make sure there wasn't any confusion there. There's two layers of regulation on those homes. It's what the village allows and it's what the HOA allows. Correct. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But we're not going to get into survey design now. We're going to Here

you got the I forgot what I was going to No, I You're to talk about a garage conversion.

Yeah. Uh Tom Davis 6482 Apache. uh to kind of build on what my uh wife Lori said is in the broadly speaking, I would be opposed to fences in most situations uh on the west side of uh Wolf Road only because of the the the beauty of having open spaces um is absolutely phenomenal. But I think if the uh committee is going to consider fences uh of all sorts, I would like to suggest that you um do not give too much thought to solid fences where views are blocked. If you are going to end up with fences, a row iron type of fence where it's probably 6 in apart and they're u you can see right through them. Um it would also contribute continue to contribute to the neighborliness of Indian Head Park for which we are I think known throughout the area. Whereas if you have stockade type fences as you see in parts of western springs and lraange and areas like that I mean it's a visual ver barrier and it's a social barrier to your neighbors. Now you can say well you have a gate and all this kind of stuff. Yeah. Okay. But in terms of uh we as uh my wife said, we've been here for decades and decades and uh even before some of the bushes grew up between our various properties, you could see uh probably down five or six different lots going down Apache all the way around the bend. It was literally like a park. Which brings me to the notion that if we're going to continue to call this town Indian Head Park, we should really be careful about what we do with fences. Thanks,

please. You all know me. I was here for a petition for variance. Um, I do agree it is beautiful in Indian Head Park. That's why we love living here. But I would really much appreciate having a backyard fence for my dogs. not a full disclosed fence, iron fence where the wildlife can come through. Um, the way our backyard is set up, we can't even see our neighbor. We love our neighbors. We've actually got approval from all of our neighbors. This is when we try to get a fence, which we obviously do not fit on 6344 Blackhawk Trail.

Yeah, I'm on Blackhawk. Um, our what we wanted and would like is a backyard fence, but we would want the iron fence so wildlife could go through. It wouldn't take away from the beauty. We spoke with our neighbors about it. We wouldn't want to separate from them either. So, uh, ours a halfacre. So, um, but yeah, I was just I would like that opportunity and the option and I would be open to what design. They are not cheap. So, I don't think it would be everybody putting up a fence. They're very expensive. So,

Hi, I'm John Corkran, 6417 Apache. Um, just some practical things. How would this impact the tree ordinance? Would trees have preference over fences or fences allow trees to be taken out? Conversely, would this be an opportunity to get rid of a lot of the junk trees that are in the village, the honeysuckle and the buckthorn? You know, maybe if we're going to go this way, maybe we make this a requirement that if you want a fence, you've got to clean up the junk. Um, I really agree with this gentleman about opening a Pandora's box here. Um, you know, Tony's one of my neighbors. He tolerates my uh rather eclectic landscaping at times. But, you know, yeah, I I don't want to be having to complain about some neighbor's fence not looking good. You know, what are the maintenance standards going to be? Who's going to enforce that? Is there going to be some financial commitment that the homeowner who puts a fence in, you know, that puts up a bond or something that can be used to to enforce uh maintenance? Um, you know, and again, if we go there, I think some people have have alluded to it, too. I would very very much encourage a mandatory setback from the property line. So, you you can't put a fence right up to your property line. you know, like it would kind of create a roadway, per se, for wildlife that they could get through, get to the yards that don't have fences. And finally, I am especially sympathetic to those on Wolf Road and what's going to go on with the Wolf Road expansion. You know, they're going to lose a lot of privacy. They're going to be encroached on probably. Is there an opportunity that they can have fences, you know, on on the roadside but not separating their

property? So, they get some privacy from the busy streets, but we still maintain that openness. Um, yeah, I I would encourage, you know, there's going to be a lot of things to think about. The one gentleman talked about traffic. I I I'm I'm with them on that. There's probably better solutions to to unruly traffic. You know, there's a lot of places with speed dumps and speed ramps and maybe we should be looking at those to solve that problem. So, thanks again, John Bidding here. Um, I just wanted to expand on a couple of things and um just show my support for all the long-term residents here because look, we moved here for the same reason. It's beautiful. It's unique. We love it. We love it with fences. We love it without fences, you know. So, I think this just for us is um more of just being able to have what makes you a little bit more secure in your home and um keep some safety and liability for for us personally. It's obviously not going to translate to everyone in the in the village. Um just responding to a couple things that everyone has said here. Uh, I'm a real estate broker. I've been a real estate broker for over 20 years. There is more than enough data supporting that this will increase home values significantly. Um, no one has the amount of lot size that we have almost anywhere near us unless you go into Burr Ridge and then we're in a totally different tax bracket when you're talking about acres. Uh I have about 08 acres. So we have a large lot. It's maybe 32,000 square feet because we did adopt that uh 63rd Street. You know,

one of the things that happened when we adopted that 63rd Street, we're cutting out thousands of Buckthornne. I mean, the privacy is gone because the whole thing was buckthornne. So we're we're doing our part in that respect. So, I just wanted to respond to, you know, if you do have a fence, um, maybe you have to take down the buck form. Uh, I do agree with that, just keeping the landscape of Indian Head Park, um, as pristine and transparent as possible. So, I guess what I would propose, you know, and for your thoughts are, you know, an an iron fence that's, you know, black, something that does not um stand out, you know, as a color or, you know, no chain link fence, keep them at four feet. If if uh you know, residents want to do something beyond that, they can do some landscaping on either side of the fence. Certainly don't want to have it on any sort of lot line. And I think you should limit it, you know, to what you can do maybe behind your house. So it is not something that you're going to drive up and down the streets and seeing fence after fence and something that is not consistent. And I think you can make those reasonable uh restrictions so that you can maintain um the aesthetic that we're looking for.

Are you a residential broker? Uh residential, commercial. Yes. Have you seen what you're describing in any other communities? I'm Say that again. Have you seen what you're describing in any other communities?

Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, I can't say per se directly in this neighborhood, but from here to the Northshore, you know, I I can probably only pick out off the top of my head maybe three other communities that won't allow a fence. Um there's certain certainly nature driven. Um there is parts of Northfield that will not allow you to put in a fence because you're in the Skooki Lagoon area and they want to see the wildlife go in, but also because they're in a flood zone and they don't want to have flooding properties and debris get stuck into someone's property, you know, and create whatever they're whatever they're thinking. Um, but I will say, you know, if you just look at the development right across the street on Planefield, uh, Timber Trails, you know, they they put fences in. These houses are on top of each other. They're a million2 to a million6. I have 32,000 square feet and I've got a 2,800 foot house. I can't get 700 grand for it, you know? I mean like the delta is half a million dollars. That doesn't make sense. So I'm just saying there's there's a huge difference when you allow people to put in a fence. It will also cost me 50 grand to put in a fence if I wanted to fence in my 32,000 square feet. So this is, you know, it's restrictive for people to do. This is not something that everyone is going to stand up and say, I want the fence. I think if the village puts certain restrictions on it, you know, to limit the size of these fences, keep them in the backyard, but certainly help the value of the home. Thank you.

Thanks, John. What's that?

Okay. So, uh, I did receive a comment, a public comment, um, through email, uh, from Dale Homequest, and I apologize if I butchered that. And the comment is as such. Over the years, I've sold many IHP homes. The beauty of the grounds outweighed a buyer's desire for a physical fence. The unobstructed landscape is what makes IHP special. Invisible fences have always been an option. No fences allowed, with few exceptions, have not affected recent IHP home sales or prices if you follow sold prices lately. A variety of fences, one installed here or one there, would look unattractive in my opinion. In addition, it's a broker's responsibility to understand ordinances in areas where they list and sell homes and to inform their clients of the same. And that is the complete comment. All right, guys. We're supposed to undertake a brainstorming session. According to Andreas, we're separated into three distinct parts. reason for changing fence or regulations, reasons for against changing fence regulations, and further information questions the commission wishes staff to research for the September meeting. Well, I think we heard a number of compelling reasons why we should and

should not change make changes to the regulations. I heard safety. I heard containment of pets uh both in favor of uh changing the ordinance. Um and then I heard, you know, against it, you know, preserving the Indian nature of the of the original uh founding fathers, I guess if you want to say it. um and taking away from the character of uh what Indian Park is and was originally intended to be. So um also through the conversation heard a lot of interesting ideas on some compromising. you know, a screen for any anybody's backing up to a major thorough affair. That's interesting. Um, black picket style as a potential compromise. Um, or nothing. So, what did I what didn't I reference that you guys heard?

I think the the shapes the unique sizes and shapes of the lots. That seems to be a concern too in some of because it is parklike and especially west of Wolf Road. So some of the some of the um lots may by adding a fence it would make them um just make the spaces a little bit more awkward. I I thought the uh the point about about

oh sorry um I thought the um the point about the tree ordinance or you know how it's going to affect the overall tree planting I thought that was that was very interesting point um

yeah what other collateral impacts are we not thinking of that's a great example of what else you know if if uh you know, we we were to say, "Hey, we're we're we're allowing fences everywhere. You know, everybody, I've got a utility easement behind my house." Well, shoot. How do we address that? Um at what point, uh you do you do you prohibit the fence from encroaching into the front yard? Um, so there's what are the collateral things that you know if we just start pulling on this thread on this sweater, what what else aren't we thinking about that is otherwise solved right now in its current form?

I mean, I uh appreciate the point John made first about, you know, the the foot traffic through his yard and on Hayawa. have a lot of of the kids trying to get back in through uh you know to and from school or the parks or whatever coming through um coming through to get back to Blackhawk and etc. Um so if I put a big fence in because I have big dog they wouldn't be able to do that. So there needs to be some accommodation planning for how do we get these kids back and forth out of the deeper neighborhoods without putting them on Wolf Road. You know, there's no there's no designated path.

Not yet. Not yet. So maybe that's going to be solved, but it but yeah, that's it is it does go on and it is a safety concern I think um and a privacy concern for us. Kids just flying through on their bikes all day and night. that you know neither your kids or ever responsible

I know the study that was done uh in well a combination of 45 acres in Oldtown looking at some of the storm water management issues. Um I wonder what the implications of fences would be for you know some of the the swailes and and drainage facilities that there was a study you know that was sort of looking at potential solutions there. Um, and yeah, the point that was made about the mature trees and you know, if someone were to technically come in and say, I want to build this on my lot line, what would the impacts to the established landscaping be? The other question would be what what would it potentially impact and the kind of the prevailing drainage patterns that some of some of which are engineered and some of which are not. um you know, maybe causing some issues between neighbors if there are alterations. Um all just sort of like like you said, collateral downstream, no pun intended, impacts, right, of allowing certain things to be done could just kind of create additional issues that we should think through to their logical conclusion before we come up with a solution. also have the utilities.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so who who who has to offset the fence from their property line so that the easement is accessible? You know, those kind of things are all kind of come into play then when you're trying to understand where you might put one.

Ju just to reiterate so I can find it on the transcript later. Uh you were speaking about the comment was about um the utility easements and both putting them you know not being able to put them in utility easements but also also having the utilities then provide access to them as well. It's just it's just because you weren't speaking into the mic so it won't pick up. No, you're fine. It's just it's just to help me for later when I do it and so chat GPT does not get confused. I also did appreciate the the counterpoint though that that if we were to put in put some parameters in place and explore allowing only certain types of fences that the expense of that could actually dissuade a lot of people from actually pursuing something if they don't if they don't really really feel passionate about it or um so you know it I think that means that yes we they they could allow them but not everybody is going to go out and immediately if we say yes you can go in pursuit getting a fence. Um so yeah I I think that was an interesting counterpoint though.

I'll add something in here uh to kind of throw a twist on this. Um mostly we're looking at residential but one of the things that we we the code generally allows but not in the specific instances residential that abuts public spaces. For instance, we have a fence that currently separates the heritage center site from residential. We do not have a fence that separates Saka Jia Park from residential, but they're essentially the same thing for all intents and purposes. at the same time, you know, could there be a fence here? Well, on that side of us, because it's fenced everywhere else, um, separating the village hall, which, you know, is in operations 24 hours a day due to the fact that we have a police department from residential, would that be something that I mean, if I were to make the argument for it, my argument would be the fact that, you know, you have these higher um uses in residential areas. They're not, you know, industrial or or business, but they are higher uses and higher higher access to the public. And would it be good and it would be good to create a both a visually distinct a visual distinction between what is public property and what's private property, but also, you know, for a safety concern, you don't want you don't want a bunch bunch of ruffians at Sakajia Park late at night drinking to then wander into someone's uh yard. Um or you know, conversely, if if a plan commission meeting gets too wild at nine o'clock at night, uh we end up in Nakona and they would not appreciate that. Um so that is a Turn the mic. Oh, it's cold. I'm sorry. I'll I'll turn it dropped. Um but yeah anyway so that is something that is that is also would be a positive

here would be to maybe not full residential but an extending from where we currently allow separating from commercial areas from residential areas separating public spaces and please keep in mind with our resoning coming up soon we are the recommendation is to reszone any public area from what this is currently named R1 it will be res it will be into governmental area, which would mean that it would be a non-commercial. So,

Andre, yes. What What's the trigger for some of the older fences if we create standards? Do they get grandfathered in or are they do they still are would they all just be required to meet new standards or

if if the fence is currently a special use and does not meet the standards of the new fence ordinances then it would still contain their special use. It still continue on because it's a special use for that reason. If it was a special use and it met the fence standards, it would it would go away essentially, for lack of a better word. Now, would it would it go away and if we change the fence standards back, it wouldn't be in effect anymore? I have absolutely no idea to be honest with you. I would think that it would go back into effect, but I would have to ask legal about that. Um, I was, yeah,

we run the potential of having kind of some wonky older fence meets newer fence situations. So, nothing, right? So, if we have if we're in Bartlett Estates and they have a special use for a split rail fence and their neighbor decides to put in a, you know, black aluminum row iron looking flat top fence next door, yeah, it'll be visually discordant. Um, but maybe they'll maybe they'll look at that and go, "You know what? I would like to have a rod iron a fence that looks rod iron versus a split rail which really doesn't do a whole lot of anything." Yeah. Are there standards for pool fences?

All fun things you should ask that. Um, up until 2008, every pool fence had to be a special use. Um, after that, they changed the the way the fence ordinance was. So basically, if you have a pool and it's required, whatever the pool standards are, you don't have to get a special use for that. Um, for the same type of fencing for all the pools, because the ones in my neighborhood, they all look the same. So, I didn't know if you had there there are Yeah, it's basically the requirements in there that I think they're four feet or I could look it up here in a minute, but yeah, they're all they're all they're all rod iron. They look that's why they're all black, flat topped, look all the same. Um they meet all the building codes so kids can't put their heads through them and you know or jump them and fall in the pool.

That's pretty standardized in the village. It's kind of a standard It's kind of a standard around the Chicago land area from my experience. Standard special use. Uh no it's uh the fencing the fencing around a pool or kind of kind of a standard I don't want to say invogue fence right now but they are metal of black rod iron appearance. Pick it. Thank you. Um uh that are flat top because deer don't always clear fences and um

so that that's kind of what what they are. So that does not mean it's required. You could have, you know, you could have a a fence that must be wood. You could have a you know fence that must be stone if you really wished it to be. So, so the village created, you know, some kind of not you but some other whoever started that opened it up. They created some sort of Yeah. This kind of meets other neighborhoods.

They most likely just picked it up from what other people were doing during that time frame. It was it didn't make a whole lot of sense to require a special use for a pool when both things were required and you want pool fences so kids don't fall in pools and drown. So it was kind of one of those things where especially looking at the minutes I'm getting towards them now there were still push back about allowing pool fences. So

I'll provide you that information later. So Andre is next month we're going to continue the discussion and it looks like we're going to entertain the potential if we were to if we were to uh advance discussions on the potential of approval um where where we might allow fencing. Um, and then we're going to discuss the potential public safety. And then to confirm October, again, barring availability and not having anything on the agenda that might preclude us from being able to talk about this, we'll have our first public hearing. Um, so the survey for next month, do we know what are we going to discuss next month what that survey looks like? Are we supposed to give you direction today and what we want to include in that survey?

Yeah, because I have written down here probably 25 or more issues that were brought up. those need to be categorized in some form of segmentation by area of the village and then the list just goes on. I mean a lot of brainstorming ideas here but

you know just on the topic of uniformity there's probably seven or eight or nine 10 issues that have to be brought up and discussed and how that goes into the survey and the design you know what do we what are our expectations for this survey that you know by design alone would be available for us to review and how do we get our input to you So what I would say for what would be helpful right now, the reason I I said public input strategy was because I was uncertain if you wish to do a survey. If the commi commission feels that doing a survey is the best option along with public hearings, I can start working on crafting something that might be able to, you know, do it and provide draft copies of it so that the commission can then provide feedback at the meeting and then we can get it out shortly thereafter.

You might be getting a little too granular for this survey with you. I think we need lack of information though. So, we're going to be making decisions. I think the the biggest question is are you are you in support of amending the code to allow for fences? Well, that's what we talked about at the last meeting. You know, why are we here? I mean, if it's a hierarchal decision here, fences yes, fences no, and we move on. If its fence is yes and we want to explore it, that's something entirely different. And there's a yes.

But this has changed. There's a lot of people against big litigation of both sides. It's very important to have a survey and response from the res and you know

can we can we step up to the mic please just to make my life we are being we also we are being record I should say we aren't being broadcast as far right now but it will be on the it will be on the YouTube so that public comments are out there so that's why I'm kind of insistent about the mic totally um John bidding again [Laughter] there is no punch card benefit. You know, if you're thinking you're getting a a free soda or something, I just want you to recognize me when I come in next time. You like, that's the guy. Um,

so just a couple of things. The neighborhood and everything around us is changing. Wolf Road, Planefield Road. It's definitely something that should be thought about. There's a lot of new residents here. There's a lot of old residents here. I think we owe it to everyone to hear what everyone has to say. Um, and then just on top of that, there is a much better response rate if you have text notifications than just email. So, I just like to throw that out there.

Uh, uh, text notifications for a survey versus just an email or or a post in the in the newsletter. So, I would just make that recommendation. We could do that. Um, I would also say John Corker and again my experience with our surveys is they tend to be um overly broad and and they don't allow kind of that pinpoint. Exactly.

Uh, you know, I I think it should Yeah. fences, yes, but it's got to be XYZ. Um, so I would encourage you to get that level of detail if we can. [Laughter] Uh Jim Gazis, Wolf Road resident, Indian Head Park trustee. Um we've kind of tasked this commission with this uh issue. Um for those of us that are on Wolf Road, we felt like the last administration was in 19 meetings that we knew nothing about. and I was the one or two people that were in these board meetings and I would send emails to the board specifically ask specific members of the board questions about what was going on with Wolf Road. Why? We have also two large animals. We're a bull mastiff family and our young kids have now now are young adults and out of the house. Mailboxes, trees, oak trees, evergreen trees, uh intoxicated residents that park to wave at the dog and the police know on a firstname basis. We've kind of seen a little bit of everything. Um and again in the cover of darkness, Wolf Road, this Wolf Road multi-use path, sidewalk, etc. Uh even with me being on Wolf Road with all these issues and asking board members and uh village administrators constantly, nothing's going on, nothing's going on. Unbeknownst to the residents, a lot was going on. So a lot of this is about transparency. I am on Wolf Road. I can respect the issues. We looked in Indian Head Park 15 years ago. We had a large dog. We didn't come to Indian Head Park as much as we loved it because of the fence rule. Fast forward, we've been in the community 13 years.

The electric fence on Wolf Road knowingly no fence rule on Wolf Road. Anything can happen. So, buyer beware for sure. I do feel for these younger families that do back up to Wolf Road. Luckily, all that beautiful buckthornne that John Corkran seems to, you know, have the case against does provide some insulation. We don't really know what's going to happen. So, but we what we do want this commission to do is kind of flush out all these issues. It has to happen not in the cover of darkness, not in some back room alley deal, not behind closed doors where all of a sudden it's a board meeting and you're reading about in the Village Voice after it's happened. We kind of want we want the debate. We want we want this is great. We get more people in this meeting than we get in, you know, our board meetings combined. So, um, you're tasked with kind of fielding all this information. Uh, I agree with John, the survey, you know, depending on how it's done, selective participation, etc. Um, again, we're going to have a couple of these, we're going to have these meetings. We're going to have a couple public comment periods. We're going to have some public hearings on the board level, on the commission level, etc. And hopefully then you'll have the information you need to make a recommendation. And then you will recommend it to the board. The board can take the recommendation, the board cannot take the recommendation. Then it will be up to the board to make that decision whether they're going to write a new ordinance, pass it, not pass it, have that debate. So, um, you're kind of the gatekeepers of bringing in all the input and all the knowledge and fostering that debate in in the public forum, not in some on some commission or with a few board members that are leaning one way. There are safety issues. There are enjoyment of use issues. There are financial issues. A lot of these these homes, you know, they're million million plus, etc. There are other issues and yes, there are going to be potential litigation issues. That's why we have counsel. That's why we have all those things. So, um, appreciate your time. I know you guys have been kind of bored the last 6

months or a year. Uh, this is your time to shine. So, uh, enjoy it.

This is what we signed up for. um that you had indicated that one of the things we would talk about is what information we feel like we still need to be able to proceed and I feel like there's there are some things that we as a commission would like to understand better but I think there also information that would need to be somehow communicated with the with the community before we were asking them for feedback. back. Um because like it is it is too simple to say are you you know are you in support of fences or do you not want fences? There's a lot more nuance to it, you know, in terms of certain situations. The people that face Wolf Road, the people that back up to Wolf Road, the people that face Planefield, the people that back up to Planefield, you know, all these different situations that people face where there might be some kind of, you know, middleof the road solution. Um, but to to ask people just a a blanket question without being able to explain the these are the properties that it would impact if we, you know, were to suggest doing this. You know, there's this many properties that back up to those roads or there's this this many properties that have driveways on those roads. Um, or there's this many properties that are adjacent to a commercial, you know, parcel or a public parcel. um that might, you know, that might be impacted if we were to allow a certain type of fence. I it's I'm still kind of wrapping my mind around all the questions I have about where are there where are the easements, you know, where are these roads that have jurisdiction that the village doesn't really control what happens on those roads. Is there a special consideration for people that are adjacent to roads that the village

doesn't really control at the end of the day? Those kind of things. But to be able to visually see some of those patterns before we pose the question, is pretty important I think first or like presentation of the information and then making it available. Yeah. somehow making it available all the all of what we know and then

yeah and that there's this kind of a whole continuum of things that we could consider. So how do you feel about this? How do you feel about this? because people will have a opinion about it, but it either directly impacts them or it doesn't and they need to understand the implications before they you could just fundamentally say no offenses but if you know when the reality comes it may not actually even impact you know I mean I think it I think it would be good for in the spirit of transparency for people to be able to understand that

you know knowing that okay if I if fences are allowed it's not going to cut off every single viewpoint. It's not going to people are not going to start immediately putting up fences here there and everywhere. Um make it feel a little bit more accessible and acceptable. So, in the interest of time and eventually my sanity when I have to answer all these questions for you, would it would it be does the commission feel like if that they should kind of formulate their thoughts on these and send me the questions because these are things I can do. Um, I know a lot of the kind of public education you you were talking about Diane. Um, one of the things we were kicking around is creating a landing page on the on on the website which basically has all this information has the information that I've placed up there has the information you know that we've that I've gathered from all the you know the back I have a bunch of stuff I still have to clean up and and do and all that information there and helping educating and then putting these graphics up there you know putting these meetings up there these types of of ideas. Um, so I guess my point I guess my question is would the commission commissioners like to kind of gather their thoughts tonight? it is 9:06 and um send me that th those questions so we can look at them and then um you know we can look at I can look at answering those you know looking at my deliverable which would be answering the questions from all you know from this meeting but also looking at those allowable locations that you know what are in a PUD that would allow them if the HOA inside PUD would allow it um you know hypothetically be allowed um and then you possible serve public survey questions, but also you know possible other graphics and education. Would that would that would the

commission feel like that's a good idea? Excellent idea. Okay. So, between now and the next meeting, we'll pepper Andreas with questions and then I think you'll come prepared next meeting to respond to those questions and then from those questions I'm sure we'll have more questions. But I think one of the other things would be uh for us to to uh discuss next meeting what that survey might look like. We we might want to set a tighter deadline, right, of getting you our thoughts about what information what what questions we have that we wish we had the answer to right here now. You know, let you know like within the next week or something.

I'd say by next Tuesday, mostly because the fact that I'm on vacation from Wednesday and through Monday. So, I'm not going to be here. Well, I don't know that. Uh, I'm not going to be here for the next week and I'll be in Door County and so I will not be answering any text messages or emails or anything. So, So, when is our input due? Your input is due on the 12th, 7 days from now and get that back to me then. So, that way I have a brand new intern who's done some community development, outreach, and engagement. Um, and it sounds like a great plan for an MPA intern to help me with.

Well, I I didn't know if Yeah. an intern or Safe Build or somebody who can kind of even create some of these diagrams, you know? I mean, we're not talking about Jill graphics. Yeah. Jill in our front office is a graphic artist and she continually begs us to do graphic artwork instead of, you know, if you like like, "Hey, you guys, your graphics are you look like you're a government." Um, so, uh, I will probably also have her once I can figure out what's what. I'll have her help us with those graphics as well and we need to send them individually. We need to send our lists individually to you. You then will compile them. Correct.

And five of us asked the same question. You won't be allowed to share it with each other individually. And so what you'll do is you'll send them all to me by next week. and don't email more than two more than one other person so we don't have any MA violations and then by next week when I get it in I will we'll compile them all into a coherent one. Don't worry about you know asking the same question as somebody else. We'll just you know collapse everything down and then I'll send the list to the entire commission so that they can see what all the questions that are asked and then at that point we'll I'll start working on it and I'll be working feverishly on it to try and get you that information as quickly as possible. Excellent. Sounds good.

Anything else from the public? If not, we'd encourage you guys to continue. Yes. Can you come Can you come to the mic, please? Thank you.

Sylvia Mayo at 6100 Timber Ridge Court. And I was thinking listening to everybody, why not start with the obvious? The homes that back up to Wolf Road or or any major road. The side of my house is Planefield Road. It's for sale. I can't sell it. Every time a buyer comes, they love the home and they ask, "Can we put a fence?" No, we can't. And there goes my buyer every time. So, it's been for sale for a couple of months, and I could have sold it 10 times over if I had a fence. So, I think it's important to at least start with the obvious, the ones that butt up to a busy road. That would make a difference.

Thanks. Okay. Anything else? Thanks everybody for coming out. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck. Um, come back. We'll be back here next month. Same time, same bat channel. No, no one's going to stick around for zoning code reviews or building reports or nothing. All right. I'll catch you on YouTube to get interested.

How you doing? Great. Fine. If you buzz through old business. All right, let's move on to old business. Andreas, talk talk to us briefly about zoning code. Could they be here during this?

Yeah. Okay. So, the the zoning code updates are in there. Um, please give them a review. Um, when you need to sleep tonight. Uh, no, I'm kidding. Uh basically if you look at them it is uh continuing the idea of we are making things simpler. We are making things easier. We are collapsing a lot of things down into their broader districts um and uh more kind of a generalized activities that go in said districts um compared to right now where we have a bunch of districts we don't use and very specific um very specific uses like said habedasherie. Um, so please give those a review. Um, it's also very well explained in there. It's not in super technical language. So, um, if you have any questions, we have a meeting with them every other Wednesday. Uh, so if you have any questions, send them to me and be like, I don't understand this. And they'll be more than happy to answer those questions for us.

Excellent. Any items of discussion from the plan commission that we didn't already cover? So just just to clarify there's the CR the CG the institutional the light industrial I th those are the use cate there are non-residential categories and then there are some residential categories that they're going to take the map of the village and sort of propose how to for for the res

map to those categories that are more logical. Yes. Is that what you're saying? So, so basically our B3s and all our B's are going to be made more intelligently. Um, for the RS, they're going to basically keep them the same, except they might flip-flop R a R3A and R3B because R3A is more dense than R3B, and that's just not the way it's usually logically done. The more you go up, tends to be more density. Um, they say they don't have to do that, but it it just would if you're going to clean everything up to make sense, make it all make sense. They're puds too. So we have to work on that. But one of the fundamental issues was that like for example Sequoa and Hayawa are are R1.

Mhm.

What will happen if if Oldtown and Hayawa and Sequoa are still falling under the same zoning category? because the long-standing issue was sort of that the the way those districts were defined was too restrictive like there it didn't take into account the the variation. Yeah, we we yeah the the R the residential R1 is very varied in property lots but overall it's still single family detached housing which is and once we start getting to the R2s the R3s they start becoming more and more attached more and more dense so I think that's why we are still currently in the R1's uh for most of that is something I can definitely ask if there should be more

like an R1A and R yeah if we can if we can add some more of that but I but also I I would wonder If the the um variation between all of those is too great, then now you start you start kind of almost have to cherrypick, you know, half half of Hayawa and half a Sequoa meetat, you know, are still on the old Chicago grid plan, whereas the other half are not. So, but I'll I'll definitely ask um our uh Chantel who is the who is the uh planner about it. Y but overall it's to make it easier to navigate. It's to make it easier for someone to look into in it, figure out what applies to them or doesn't apply to them. Correct. And

modernization. Okay. Yep. You have a vote board report for us. So, the board referred to us a uh they wanted us to look at fences. I was going to say something else to us. In case you're wondering, they wanted us to look at fences. That's the only current board report that I have is that thanks a lot.

I I do not have a building report. I was hoping to have uh BSNA up and running to be able to do that. I currently do not at the moment um just because well we're integrating new software and if you've ever integrated any new software ever before, you realize that things are not as clean as they need to be. Um we're but it's going great. As far besides being slightly behind, it is going very well. So that's all I got in that one. It's been a couple months since we've seen that the ship. You said it's great. So

I mean I I should I meant the software is very good. Um no, the uh the uh I haven't put together the whole board report because it's a very manual process or building report since it's a very manual process and I'm trying to make because it doesn't map right. I have to then go back. It takes me like an hour and a half to do it and it really shouldn't. Um, is there a bunch of stuff going on that we should be concerned about or No, it's it's it's we're generally in Yeah, we're generally in the very routine. Most of what for building what we do in the village is replacements of windows, replacements of sidewalks, and emergency sewer repairs because if you live in Acacia, your line is clay. And I'm sorry to tell you that will collapse.

It it if it I did I did 12 emergency la sewers last year and I think I'm at five or six right now this year. uh because they're clay um they get replaced with very nice PVC. It's a good it's a good thing. Um but otherwise most of the time then it's smaller type things, driveways, these type sorts. Not anything big going on.

What's going on with Driftwood slash whatever sl the bar portion is currently not open. Um which is good because they did not renew their liquor license. Um so there is that. Uh the other uh so that's that's why that is currently closed. It is my understanding that there that both the businesses are currently struggling a little bit. Um but I have not had an opportunity to hit a meeting with them at the moment. There are some other issues that we are dealing with as well um also in Indian Head Plaza that will need to be taken care of. separate from those two.

separate from those two. And I'll leave it at that for right now because I'm because I'm being recorded. We're going to edit that out, right, David? I'm kidding. Okay. Excellent. Any public comments? All right. Well, um before I ask for a motion to adjurnn, is there anything we need to talk about? I would like to thank everybody for the two and a half hours that you guys committed to us tonight. Two hours and 27 minutes for showing up three minutes late. I'm just kidding. You rolled around the park. Step back here.

It's two minutes late. it. Uh, you know, I think uh that the the board has tasked us with um responding to some community queries and we're going to arm them with uh as much as we can to uh to resolve Yeah. to to resolve the issue. We put it to bed, kind of put it to bed or or wake it up. So, um thanks in advance for the time and the guidance, Jim. Um, and with that, I'm willing to enter a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjurnn. Second.

Motion to adjourn by Mr. Bellina, second by Mr. Mshaw. All in favor? I I opposed.