Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

701. You mind if I call the call the meeting? It is. All right. Calling to order planning and zoning commission January 6, 2026, 700 p.m. meeting. Start with a roll call. Commissioner Tantillo here. Commissioner Gormley Barnes here. Commissioner Menshaw here. Commissioner Lucky here. And Chairman Greg Scovich present. All right. We have a quorum.

We have a quorum. Five members. That's the fire expression system. Every so often does that. Don't worry, the building won't burn down. Good. If I could get everybody stand for pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Welcome back everybody. Happy New Year. Um so next order of business is approval of the uh December meeting minutes um because of some of the uh uh busy holiday season. Obviously we just got this so we're all seeing the 21 pages now for the first time. Um, we can take 20 to 25 minutes to review it now

or I would be willing if there's support to entertain this as a homework assignment for the February meeting to approve both the January and the fee both the December and the January minutes. What does everybody think is the best use of our time? Is there any reason the full board needs these approved? No, there's no there's no reason to that needs approval if it needs review. And there have been other meetings when minutes have come out come out late that you can table them till the next meeting. So

I'll second. Excellent. Bob good. Awesome. All in favor of tableabling I. I all opposed. Motion carries. Um, next order of business, public hearings. Having none, new business, we're pick up in uh on our discussion from December on the approval for fencing along major throw affairs.

Correct. So, at this meeting, um, if you recall, we were going to talk about the, uh, the guidelines for what types of fences would what it would look like to be accepted, what the spec specifications were for fences along major along the major roads that we've discussed before. Um, so part of that would be height, style, make, uh, those types of of things, location, etc. Um in uh in the time between here and there we I t had some um discussions with uh both our planning and our uh zoning I'm sorry our planning consultant as well as our engineering consultant and um both of them were more than willing to provide us some uh specifications of where they should go in relation to um you know sight lines for for traffic uh specific ifications on how open these should be. Um what happens when they're at a corner lot very technical type uh ideas on that. So um unfortunately just due to the holidays and everything as chairman um alluded to earlier I had we hadn't been able to get them to have a sitdown meeting get specifications but it can be for the next meeting. Um, however, what I did want to bring to your attention is basically the stylistic guidelines, which is really the last major purview here. Kind of the technical guidelines of of where they go really is on our engineering and really on our engineering staff. And when I say where they go, I mean whether or not they should go in easements or anything. So, um, on the other hand, the stylistic guidelines are something that it would be for the planning and zoning commission to, uh, dictate. Um, as I've stated before in a previous meeting, uh, we currently do have some stylistic

guidelines in the or aesthetic, I should say, guidelines in the, uh, code predominantly for ADA, um, type, uh, ADA type, uh, special uses. And that is a black row iron fence that's flat top that it says a minimum of 5t, but I think it's supposed to be a maximum of 5t tall. and that's what's currently in our codes if it needs to be there. There are so other fences in the village. One of them is a split rail fence that is a special use. Those are very predominant in Bartlett Estates. Um but otherwise uh we also have some shorter fences like when pools are involved. I have provided two handouts on you. One of them is a black row iron flat top fence that is located in uh the village of Burr Ridge. Um it is around their pump house. It's on 80 Well, it's German Church on this side of County Line Road. Um that is kind of the stylistic fence we have. The other picture is a picture of a split rail fence that is located uh that separates Blackhawk Park from the neighboring residential there. So, um, to kind of make the process shorter, it is staff's recommendation that we go with a black rod iron flat top 5- foot fence that's at least 50% open. Basically, the picture that I provided to you there. Um, it is very similar stylistic and and aesthetic-wise to the fences that are surrounding us. It has already been approved and kind of put in our our code for ADA. And it um does it also does not inh it inhibits both sight lines and any sort of uh water flow very little because of how wide and open they are. Um they are they are usually um they look like they're rowd iron but they are generally in speaking like our code has asked for they are weather resistant. So, there are either steel with some

sort of coating that keeps them from rusting or they are aluminum. Uh, this fence is also very similar. The recommended fence that I'm doing is something that's very similar to what's across the street at Timber Trails, which is the fence that normally gets brought up a lot. So, to kind of make the process short, it is staff's recommendation we go with that kind of stylistic of a fence for them in there. And then also um staff will bring back at the December meeting or the February meeting those recommendations, the technical recommendations for fences after we talk to after we get that finalized through our uh our consultants both planning and engineering wise like I said the technical issues of it. So that's what I have for you. Otherwise if you have any other you know what you want the fences to look like what do you think height locationwise that is also you know that is also part of the discussion. So

uh question was the the issue of fences brought up and voted on by the board of trustees. Are you talking about the ones we currently have in the code that five foot fence that I was speaking about? Yes. or the fences in general after we after our discussion?

No. Uh it was brought up, the topic was brought up. It was discussed. I had reported on it what was going on at the meeting. Um there was some discussion on uh some of the kind of uh lack of clarity when it came to the motions at the end. However, as I had spoken about before and I I at the meeting that the the vote the recommendations that we made here, the preliminary recommendations were for the were for setting the policy direction. It was not the final policy recommendation. So when this committee when this commission said these are the direction we want to go in each direction, it was even if the wording wasn't technically clear on it, it was clear to me as staff. And so in our final recommendation that we will then vote on in February. All the information will be in there. You'll it'll be very clear what was what was voted on, what will be voted on. And then that's when you that will be your final recommendation that is then sent to the board for them for their for their perview. And part of that is to make sure that we are all absolutely clear because these are very, you know, they can get very nuanced. They can get very lengthy. And you know, unless you're doing these kind of voting parliamentary, unless you're doing these kind of parliamentary procedures a lot every week, it can get kind of muddled. So, that was something that I had been um on my mind. So, that's why we had that preliminary that preliminary recommendations, but we hadn't sent them off to the board yet. Okay.

That answer your question? Well, when we were talking about this before, we did the survey that we did and then we had talked about how we were going to keep that one really really basic and just kind of was it an up or down? How did people feel about the locations of fences? But we talked at that point about how there would then be a second kind of phase of seeking input about things like what kind of fences and that that sort of question. So, are you now suggesting that what we would do is go ahead and put something in the code about these fences along major roads and we would just say this this is the one that would be allowed.

Yes, I don't think we should really need to go back to having a second survey for the exact aesthetic of the fences. Um just from taking from the sur from the survey to begin with, we there was a lot of commentary on having you know a standard aesthetic and when most and most those commentaries were also towards like the fence on timber trails which is a black rod iron you know looking fence of aesthetic type. So while we could do another survey, I don't think it would be the best um value uh for it uh because honestly it's you know most of what they we've a lot of the technical issues rule out some fences. So we would not want to have any fences that were closed. Reason being is that then they have sighteline issues. We do we do not want and also storm water issues. Um you know fences over a certain height also create sighteline issues even if they're open. Um as additionally to that uh you know certain types of fences well we just know that we don't want certain types of fences chain link or you know th those types of things are um well in the survey quite a few people called out they didn't want chain link fences. So, um, in looking at it and looking at the aesthetic of it, this this type of black row iron fence style is what is not just only in our code already, but also generally what is around the area. So if you drive around the area, you're most likely going to see this outside of those fences that are more for screening that are, you know, the Joliet Road fence, for instance, is meant to screen the residential from the commercial and Joliet Road. The fence behind uh Brookside and uh Walgreens as well is also meant to be that screening, but those are not fences

we're talking about here because those types of fences are are already in the code as a way to separate commercial from residential. Is that type of fence defined?

No, both those types of fences have been special use. The type of I guess let's back up. The allowance of offense that separates it residential from non-residential uses is defined in the code and allowed. What that looks like exactly is not defined in the code. So it's not like a a it's not like a the that type of fence is aesthetic is defined in the code. No, because both those all those have been special uses. So that's all been defined through the process. as we've spoken about before um had the the joy there is but the but there is one area where it's allowable and that's where you have differing uses commercial to residential right

yeah uh residential to non-residential uses yes thank you um and it it says fence is allowed between these two uses does it does it specifically state what type of fence or does it just generically say fence is allowed it generically allows fence okay so in that case I think you know we need balance this the the the definition of a fence and a screen. In this case, it's we're screening, right? Yeah. First, y fencing second. And what we're talking about now is a fence, correct? First with little to no screening. Correct.

Okay. And then and and I think the examples Tim Trails, Burridge, those are great examples. Right. Yeah. Because the fencing we're kind of we're talking about is more for it's more for separating natural flow of pedestrians um and you know other types of uses, bicycles, stuff like that from from the from the road, whether that be from the road into residential lots or from residential lots into the road. Um, as as has been pointed out, this 5-ft residential fence that I am that I am recommending, a car is not going to be stopped by that fence. It might slow down a little bit, but you know, this is not this is not like the Joliet Road fence. If a car hits the Joliet Road fence, as it has, my understanding, it'll be slowed down for a little bit. Um, this is more of a of keeping pedestrians, pets, anybody that's not in a vehicle from crossing into the residential from the residential

to the major road

into the major road or vice versa. [clears throat] As you can see with the one on Burr Ridge, that sidewalk though there was there beforehand, but it's actually a very, as part of the concerns that are brought up with the sidewalk going down Wolf Road at some point in time, it has a very easy distinction. And next month, as a reminder, February, you're going to you're going to draft an ordinance. I will draft the full recommendation on it. So, it will not be drafted in ordinance because ordinance has all the extra language, but it'll be very clear of here's what's being recommended. Here's what's being recommended in this area.

We will recommend for approval staff to draft an ordinance da da da. Yeah, it'll be more bullet points, very clear because it's not just I just don't want it to be clear to the commission what's going on. I want that the draft and recommendation is to be clear to anybody what's going on. There'll be executive summary that we're currently working on a draft right now, but it'll be an executive summary and that executive summary will say, you know, this is what was recommended in regards to this issue. This is what was recommended in regards to issue and here's what the points are for it. And included in that will be the major road fencing that we all supported

or I think we all supported. Maybe there was a couple of people that didn't. Um and then a recommendation for a consistent fence to be to accompany that. Correct. Yeah. I will bring back the the specifics. So if you say we are in agreement that this is the type of fence we would like to see. I'll get that language together. I'll put that in there and you'll see, you know, the the plan commission's recommendation for fencing general residential fences was was was not to change anything. I'll word that. And then it was along major roads. Uh it it was to allow fencing, this type of fencing located in this types of area. Very, very quick, easy to digest.

When we were as a as a commission when we were voting to support the idea of fences along major roads, was this what we had in mind? You know, we my understanding last month is we we voted to continue the discussion about how to resolve that issue with the acknowledgement that it was not an urgent time-sensitive thing to have to resolve because I'm not sure that we I mean there's complications with things like the village taking the initiative to do the fence as part of pro wolf road project or things like that. But that is the that's an idea that I think we

the village if the if the if the goal that a lot of people in the survey expressed was that they would like it to look like timber trails then just going ahead and allowing people peace meal to install this along their rear lot line in a discontinuous way doesn't in any way achieve it looking like timber trails. I don't know how we enforce it otherwise the

well it would it would have to be a it would have to be a village initiative to do it in a consistent way but that could only be done after the rule for a project was done which means it could only be done 5 years in the future. Um, I mean this suggests that we would allow, you know,

people to put put a fence in at their own risk because the likelihood of it being damaged or, you know, during the Wolf Road process would be the risk they'd be taking. So that's why I I just I don't see the urgency of getting something on the books that would allow homeowners along those major roads to go ahead right now and put a fence in when the project that is going to necessitate it hasn't occurred yet and is going to be really disrupted when it does occur, which is the other problem. For, you know, for two years there's going to be silt fences out there against people's property lines, you know, and construction debris and it's going to be a mess. It's going to look, you know, it's going to be like along 55th Street for like 2 years, you know, out there. So, I don't know how we manage that period and then come out the other side with something consistent and attractive.

Why do you think we need to act on this, Andreas?

Well, that's really in the commission's Let me step back. Let me step back. So the the resolution provided to the commission that was passed by the village board had asked for report by December due to uh you know various different reasons that that timeline could not be met. But that I would say that that is saying that the village board has a sense of urgency. Now are they basically saying you know do it this month or or not? I'm going to tell you I don't I'm not haven't been getting that message. But I would also say that that message is not that we should that there is not a sense of urgency to it. So we should continue to make forward progress along whatever we are doing. Was that too vague or can can I do you know do you mean to basically the village board the village board has deemed that this is an this is an important matter. um if they deemed it in such an important matter that they also did it in parallel with the tiff district and the business district as well as the zoning code updates, the building code updates, the business licensing updates, and installing a brand new ERP system at the same time. So while I would say that it is something that they are go they are providing patience on that we've gone past the December timeline I would say it is not something that they do not see has a sense of urgency and importance. So we should be looking at trying to get this figured out as soon as possible. Is that is that clear? If only there was somebody from the board here that we could talk to.

What is the urgency? Are we are we allowed to I would welcome a public comment. You don't have to come to the mic. Yeah. Public comment. Yeah, absolutely. The chair the chairman The chairman is allowed to have public comment at his chairman

leisure. So Danielle Schvaza 111235 Haywatha also a member of the board of trustees of the village of Indian Park. Um before I address your comment on urgency, there's three things that I heard as you guys were discussing that I'd just like to kind of highlight for you to maybe think about should you decide to pursue the conversation further. Um one is on the topic of screening. Um, as I recall, I think all of these conversations were intended to include screening in the form of like greenery. So to kind of remain consistent with the current code that we have for like pool fences, right? So someone can have a fence, but they must be screened accordingly with evergreen types of growth. So I had I had thought going into this conversation that for the Wolfrog corridor specifically that that would still be something that would be considered. I know that the village had even in the prior administration set aside money specifically for landscaping efforts post Wolf Road reconstruction that would help address replanting things. So the first thing that you see when you go down Wolf would not be for example a fence. it would be green things and then behind that visually would be a fence. So, um I think that's still valuable to keep in the conversation. The other thing that I wanted to kind of ask about or maybe throw out there for you guys to talk about um when we talk about that fence on Juliet that is the screening from the residential to the commercial space. There's also a pretty significant segment of that wood plank screen fence that goes onto Wolf Road. So, it kind of comes around the curve that goes north on Wolf Road. Um, I would challenge you to think if that would be impacted and how so because that's not really separating a residential area from a commercial area along the Wolf Road corridor. So, does that mean that would

need to be replaced or, you know, I'm not sure what what that means for that section of fence, but certainly if you're going to be looking for consistency, visual consistency as you go down Wolf Road, that would probably be something that may be impactful. Um, the other thing that I was thinking about too, I know when people have talked previously about their request to have a fence along Wolf Road, there's been a lot of talk about safety and security post Wolf Road reconstruction. Um, it comes to my mind that if we're talking about a five-foot fence, if the concern is a pedestrian is traveling along the sidewalk and they would like to hop into someone's yard for a questionable activity, um, I don't know that five feet is going to deter them in the same way that six six [laughter] foot fence would. So, I would maybe throw that out there. I know a lot of places for security purposes refer to six foot fences, but you know, just something to think about. So, I'll leave those three there. Any questions or I can talk about the urgency bit or

no perception of urgency, I guess. [laughter] Okay, cool.

So, and and I'm just speaking as myself, so I'm absolutely not speaking for anyone else on the board. I would invite Jim to say something if he wishes as well. So I think the timing issue [gasps] was because all of the communications that went out, you know, to gather data from the village in a way that was intended to capture as many people from the village as possible and we got a really good a really good turnout. Um I think one of the things is we didn't want to lose any momentum from that. So we don't want this to kind of fall off the radar and it's probably not a right term to say but we don't want this to kind of get pushed to the back burner and then you know we bring it up again in eight months or 12 months or whatever and then we have the people the public coming and being angry like they were this most recent time about like why are we doing this again like are we doing this every eight months you know that kind of thing. So, I think there was kind of a thought about like we've gathered all this data. We've gotten all this feedback from a significant number of residents. Let's see what this means for us as a village and if we need to do something about it. Um, knowing of course to your point that Wolf Road is going to be incredibly impactful and a lot of this likely would not even be worth addressing for a homeowner until after that project is done. Um, I think the other portion of it as as you know in that conversation there was the fences along busy roads like Wolf and then there was the the more residential aspect of it. So like people can can they fence in their yard? What does that mean? What would that look like? Um I think it's hard to have that conversation about fences without having both of those components in it just because of the way our village is structured. So I think the thought still is if we can continue the momentum with the busy roadways or wolf road or whatever you want to call it um

major

major roadways. Thank you. Um then that will give us an easier way to reach a resolution on the residential portion of that discussion as well. And then as we all know hopefully we could just dust it off and be like cool we've done this. We've done it very thoroughly. We have an amazing amount of data points. We've gathered input and given everybody a chance to have their say in it. This is the decision. Now we're just going to go on to the next thing because I mean you all know we've been through this. I mean the time I've been in the village at least two significant efforts if not more. And I think the desire is to come to a resolution and move on to all the other pressing things that we have to deal with. So Diane brings up an a very good point on the execution and the administration and how this actually is implemented. I ask of you and Jim, is that our job to figure out how the fences are to be uh um installed and or or is is our job to say this is the fence [snorts] and this is where it is allowed. I think we're looking at general recommendations. Like I don't like you know to Andre's point like we're not asking you to give us engineering specifications

but I'm saying as far as you know the village has to put in these fences so it's consistent and and we don't have the the the missing tooth. I I I was not under the impression that that was the ask for you guys to give us an answer on because I don't think we I mean I I think that is I think that is another level to this conversation. Yeah. um that I would probably ask Andreas for help in how do you get to that? I'm not asking you right now. I'm saying later later. You don't need to answer that now. But you know, when we get to that point, assuming that we do get to that point, we would need guidance. I would need guidance on how to best go about making those recommendation decisions.

Yeah. I yeah I I don't want to uh oversimplify it or over complicate it and um this could we could do both very easily. Of course it's been it's it's been done as you've seen for the last I mean you know this like I said this conversation is not this is the first time it's happening and it's always taken a level of complexity onto it. So any other qu could I help with anything else possibly I'll be right there if you need call me up here chairman thank you so you know not not uh having you know not having to solve that

very complex question Diane you know I think the uh the the notion still stands we are supportive of fencing along major thorough affairs. Um the execution implementation of it we can't we're not here to solve that today. Um but Andres will somehow someway when the time comes. Um, so I guess what we're we started the conversation, we showed support for fencing along major roads and what Andres is asking us is to think about what what our vision was for that fence. Six foot recommendation sounds reasonable and but still support of the picket. Just a six foot tall picket.

Spikes. No spikes. So So to answer So the the the split rail or not the split rail, but the picket fence. Sorry. Yes. I I was never deviating from the rot iron black open panel. No. Okay. I I do still think the topic of vegetative screening is important. I was going to say um the the road along Juliet the the the fence along Joliet that creeps around to Wolf special use

is a special use. Yeah. So that the way that it's it's there it's it's going to it's not going to be impacted by anything we do. Um because they have that special use and that'll be there until it's not there. um [clears throat] that uh in regards to five versus 6t fence, security-wise, sixoot fences do start at six or security wise, fences start at six feet, but they also tend to have some sort of anti- climbing measure on top of them. Spikes, barb wire, I don't know, grease, I don't know what they put up top there. Um and and as I've as I've made comments before is it's not really hard to jump a sixoot fence. Like I could I used to say I can jump a six foot fence. It would not be pretty. We we'd all have a good laugh about it. Um but that's that's not really that the security aspect is more about keeping the un the keeping the flow of dogs, children, you know, extra happy neighbors on New Year's Eve from walking into roads. Uh, [snorts] essentially I I say it's it's impeding the the flow of of pedestrians through places because I often would say that people would cut AC and the the picture of the fence I have for the Bur the fence is for anybody that can't see it cuz I didn't hand it out is that's the fence around the Burridge pump center. Um, and that fence is a 5-ft fence. And the reason it's a five- foot fence is because the fact that we were not looking when in our discussions of it when I was at Bidge was we were looking for people to stop cutting across the reservoir. Um there are people who drove ATVs across the reservoir. There were people who parked trailers on the reservoir. There were people who had parties behind the pump center and we'd find beer cans. Um so this is not you know if you want to if you want to trespass you can trespass. There's I find that people just don't think they see green space and go. It's and so when you put a fence up, people realize, oh,

that's private property. I shouldn't walk across it. That's a not a great comment on the state of humanity, but I just it's just what I I found. Well, at at what point are we going to have a detailed enough set of drawings of the Wolf Road project to understand the question of where the property line where a fence would be would be relative to where there might be space for public landscaping to be provided or or would it look like this? public landscaping would be in the right way. Sidewalk and the fence and you know we would just be hopeful that private property owners would provide greenery.

Um because there there is going to be a sidewalk for the most part on the west side, right? But is it going to be continuous along the whole west side? I mean that the details of how that's going to play out and where there might be room for greenery, we don't know yet because we haven't seen the sidewalk relative to the property lines. You can just stand up if you want. Open for

Thank you. Um at the last time that we had um spec drawings for Wolf Road, there was continuous sidewalks down both sides. So yes. Um, okay. There was I I misunderstood then because I thought that wasn't the design solution that got selected. I'm Andreas. Am I wrong? I mean, I could be wrong. I I thought it was If you give me a moment, I'll go look at wolfroadstudy.com and it should tell me. But the the other thing to West side. Yeah, that's what I thought. Oh, by acacia there wouldn't be, but on the west side there would be a continuous one. Okay. continues in the east side where it is now a little longer school.

And the other interesting thing about the west side of Wolf Road, right, is there's some topography. There's some elevation pretty significant elevation changes. So, um, you know, I don't know if they're going to put a retaining wall. Like I I don't know. I mean certainly on the drawing there was like a you know this is the sidewalk and this is the property line but there were no dimensions or plotting or any anything like that given. So that could add another level of complexity for installation of things like plantings, fences etc. But like you said, the village has set aside some funds just to say at the appropriate time, we will try to figure out how best to use these

fun. I believe the prior administration had a bucket of I think 300,000 set aside. Andre, you're raising your eyebrows like I am making up numbers. I've never heard I didn't hear that. So that's what I rec I mean that's what I recall seeing in the previous administration plan. So my assumption is that that number has not fluctuated significantly from that value. But also realizing that that's in terms of landscaping going to make only a very small dent in the entire stretch of roadway. I'm not certain if that was a preliminary budget amount or if that's held in a fund anywhere.

That I do not know, but I would have to ask Trustee E what the budget looks like for this coming year. I'm sure he would know. [snorts] Wait, do we have do we have someone else from the finance committee here? Sure. Are we on every committee? So, uh, my understanding was yes, the previous administration had allocated 300,000, which anybody that's done any kind of landscaping, you're going to go

not going to get very far depending on the destruction. And kind of to Diane's point, anybody that would put up a fence before they knew where that road was going to go, if that road was going to go, that would be definitely at their own risk. and the uniformity of timber trails and of burridge and of Katherine Leggy and whatever is wonderful. Um you know it is a Pandora's box that is not I guess there will be more specific direction I believe from board and staff regarding what the complexity of you know the execution of this would be. That said I think the 300,000 was initially put in there but now it is in the budget. uh you know the Gavin priority lists regarding uh now that Wolf Road has moved from hey it's happening tomorrow to it's happening is it happening right um that 300,000 I think got melded into you know capital fund or somewhere in there I don't think it's carved out any longer but on the priority items that Gavin has you know and we'll be you know revisiting you know at the end of the fiscal year in during the April and May meeting I'm sure that that's going to be in there somewhere but I'm not sure that it says segregated as it was three years ago with, you know, uh, when Tom Henchaw, the guys, and the and the previous board was definitely earmarking that money for that purpose.

I'll also kind of remind everyone that when we're talking about busy roads, we are think Wolf Road is kind of more the impetus, but Planefield Road would also be involved in it. Um, Juliet Road, though we don't really have much residential or any that's not already have fenced on Juliet. and then also on Willow Springs Road. So, those areas also have it. Um, and to to add one more wrinkle because that's what we like doing here. One of the things is that we that in in reviewing this more and discussing it more was we could instead of just having it on major roads, we would we could allow it for uh on ma on roads that are allow it for on the borders of properties that are touching non-Indian Head Park right ofways. Now, it's a very technical uh comment, but what it what that would come down to is basically the people who back up to 65th Street, if you ever walk down 65th Street, their backyards are way open. And I didn't even know that until I walked down there a month and a half ago to go to Walgreens. Um, and so what that would allow if if the commission would also think about that as well. You don't have to answer that question now, but it basically allow besides these major roads, it would allow that's the only road that we have, which would be 65th Street to have a fence right there and those backyards. Or conversely, the commission could also just say just add in because how we do it essentially if we did if we did do the recommendation, we basically call out the roads Wolf, Joliet, Planefield, Willow Springs. Thanks. I was just talking about it. And then we could add 65th Street as well. Street. Is it street? Is it place? Is it boulevard? I don't remember.

Street. 65th Place is between it. It is the road that Indian Head Park on both sides. Yeah. Okay. But so there are two consideration.

There are two residential parcels that have a side lot line on Willow Springs Road. One is just to the north of the Walgreens and then one sits between 65th Place and 65th Street. But to your point, Andress, there's one, two, three, four. There's basically four residential properties that their back lot line is 65th Street. It's not someone else's yard. It's a a county unincorporated Cook County road in the Highlands. It's a township, I believe. Okay. Or Yeah,

that's a good good uh good distinction. Um and including a definition of major roads. Um but again, back to what would what would be the regulations of the of of this fence that we're that we said we would support along major roads and this potential uh addition of 65th Street. Is is it um is it is it the 6T picket? Is it something else? And is that what you're asking?

Yes. For this meeting, basically my recommendation is 5T black row iron architectural looking flat topped made of of and I forget exactly how what describes but that's that's my recommendation on it. Okay. Because it is unobtrusive. It doesn't look ugly. Yep. Everybody has one.

Perfect. And have you seen instances where where other communities with this similar fence have integrated soft landscape screening on top of the fence ordinance? only when it is for another reason such as um screening dumpsters, screening garbage, screening uh well, we actually require it for screening pools. Um we require for if we have an ADA fence that's also requires screening on it as well. Um but I've not seen it where fences automatically also require screening. Now that does not mean that's not allowed. It just means I have not seen it.

Sure. Okay. So, we would if we were to incorporate some landscape provision as a screen, we would be making it up. Well, it would just most likely just copy what we have for our current ADA screening because that's requires us to have evergreen screening or year- round screening for it to screen that fence [clears throat and cough] on the private side. on the private side. Excellent.

So, I guess the details when this happens and when each homeowner decides whether or not to implement. Um, but I don't en envision it being just like this along plane planefield or wolffield because there's driveways. I imagine that the homeowner is going to want to wrap that around to their garage or something so that it becomes actually okay. But so the purpose of this where it's separated by driveways is what? Well, you could allow also Yeah, you could you could have two gates, Jimmy. Straw bridges gates. You you Well, yeah,

as part of Yes, you could allow you would allow residential gates at You could allow residential gates as part of it as well. On Hayawa, too. Yes, we could just gate off Hayawa the entire keep those ruffians from but to to your point Andress earlier you said there would be restrictions like you can't build a fence across an easement a utility easement you can't you know remove a mature tree to accommodate a fence u those are the kind of things that would have to be built in that would limit Well, in order to remove a tree, you need a a a tree clearing permit, right? Theoretically, yes.

So, and in order to get a tree clearing permit, there has to be something wrong with the tree. You're not just going to let somebody clear cut a tree, right? It is required that it must pass uh they have to get approval from our village arborist. And generally, it is he has to look at it and see that make sure the tree is not like sickly, unhealthy, all overcrowded, etc. So yes, but yes, before you take a tree down in the village, whether it's alive or dead, you do need to come in and get a tree permit and approval from our village arburist.

Got it. So we're so we're we're now getting back into the execution, which we're not solving. We're just solving what the fence is along major roads and we're turning it gates and and all that stuff execution that we're not here to solve. here. What does the fence that we voted to support along major roads look like? Five or six feet, whatever.

And when you're writing the ordinance, if you get into the weeds on execution, then and we need to talk about it. Let's talk about it. But if you're asking for what fence, that's what we're talking about. Yeah, we're talking about what fence because all the kind of process parts of it we will as staff make sure it is meeting the um expectations that are set down by the commission and then eventually the board. I was want I want to read something. We were talking about fences and this is for for pools but in the in reference to screening we have heavy screening shall be provided in the form of landscaping consisting of hedge comprised of pines, evergreens or other shrubbery which does not lose its leaves in the winter. And it keeps going but so that you know the evergreen bushes shall be minimum 5t in height at the time installation shall have the expected height of maturity of at least 10 feet. Such such screening shall be subject to the final approval of the village building inspector and screening shall be maintained so long as was a swimming pool and safety fences. So we already have sort of language in there to allow screening if that was a question on it. So excellent

to require screening. Correct. So, as far as direction to Andres for next meeting, does the staff support him drafting it with this in mind? I don't think we need to vote because we're just discussing. Next month, we're going to vote. But if he shows up with an ordinance, draft ordinance that has this fence contemplated,

is that a good Is that good direction for Andreas for next month? Thank you. I say yes. Well, you don't have a vote. No, I but I have direction. That direction. Was there anything else you want me to look into as well? Do you want to look into screening references on it as well or I like the idea of the screening but um that is a I like the idea of screening. That's just me. I can always bring back to discuss it next month when we're actually [snorts] considering meat and potatoes. I can bring back language with it as well. So excellent. [clears throat] [snorts]

Did we accomplish what you wanted to accomplish tonight, Andre? Yes. Anything else on new business and the regulations for fences along major roads? No old business. Any correspondence? No correspondence. reports. You've been too busy. Yeah, sorry. I've been busy and fighting with trying to get things that ERP system I mentioned set up properly. Got it. Public comments. No public comment. Ah,

the only other comment that I'll add is when in the discussion of screening, right? We already require screening on sheds. That was a more recent, you know, discussion that was held at planning and zoning. Um, also the other thing to think about though, I'm sorry to throw this out there, is how and to what level is that going to be enforced? Because, for example, with the number of the sheds that went in that were required to have screening, I I I don't know that there's been a followup to make sure that that's been implemented, installed, and is growing in a healthy fashion. So

yeah, on the books at the time a lot a number of the sheds that we approved were supposed to have landscape screening. Um what was implemented was woefully not what we intended. But I haven't gone back to look to see, you know, whether anything's actually been maintained or not. But don't we have code enforcement doing that for us? We we can when we are aware of it, but yes, but I like the language that we put in here for pools, which is at time of installation. um that it will be screened. So, it must be it must be accepted. And that is Yeah. And we do have one um I do have an outstanding one that I have a tickler on. I forget what it is. Is a permit that um

they put they need to put landscaping in and they got approved and they finished most of it by mid November. So, we're basically going to be following up with them in March to make sure that they put in the landscaping and screening. And if they don't, if it's non-screened, then code enforcement gets involved. you know, neighbors will keep an eye on them and I'm sure they'll tell us if they don't do things properly. Excellent. Like putting up extra pagotas. If nothing else, I would entertain a motion for adjournment. Move to adjourn. I'll second that Mr. Mshaw. Second by Diane. All in favor of adjourning the meeting say I.

I. I. All opposed. Motion carries. Thanks everybody.